Evil in Eden (Rebroadcast)

On Reddit, True Crime doesn't come from journalists.

“It comes from the victims, the witnesses, and sometimes the suspects themselves.”

Every Tuesday on Crimes of Reddit, we read these posts out loud. I'm Sabrina Diano-Roga, and I'm Alexis Lindglutter. One of us brings the story, the other goes in blind, reacting in real time, just like you. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen to and follow Crimes of Reddit, available now wherever you get your podcasts.

This is the story of Two Brothers, one hero and the other, a monster. [MUSIC] A serial killer in a national park is a story, but there is more to this story, because you had a serial killer who's brother had been a national celebrity. Seven long years ago, a youngster in California vanished.

Today, he showed up with another boy. Five-year-old Timothy White.

“He literally said, I was not going to let that child go through what I had already been through.”

Books, television, movies, it was absolutely incredible. The moment that Stephen Stainer is abducted is the moment that this story really begins. It's going to be a homecoming. You would imagine sheer joy that the entire family would be ecstatic. But one member is not so thrilled.

He was cold, hateful. The vicious, vicious killer, but he's even more twisted than that. We have recovered two bodies.

You could never imagine something so heinous happening in and around your sanity.

I mean, this is a story that decades later, you're still talking about it. Maybe, just maybe we're going to find this girl alive. He was, and some, he was warm, like a big teddy bear he was just our friend.

“It is frightening, just to think what he was thinking all the time.”

This is Yosemite. These things don't happen in Yosemite. Yosemite actually means the people who kill. Now, wait, I can't find it. I guess I knew what I was trying to do.

I had to knife with me.

You never expect so much terror to happen in such a beautiful place.

Mousan! The story starts in Marseille, California. It's in the middle of nowhere surrounded by almond groves and peach orchards. It's a small farming town in the central valley of California, which is in the huge shadow of Yosemite.

Marseille, they call the gateway to Yosemite. We're talking in 1979, the American Pie was on the radio, 'cause you're a watergate. It was the year that Pong was introduced, the Brady Bunch, the Brady Bunch. The stainers lived on Betty Street. It was a middle-class kind of a neighborhood.

The parents were Delbert and Kay, and Kerry was the oldest of five children. He had a younger brother, Stephen, and three sisters too. Del worked as a mechanic in a peach cannery.

His mother Kay was always described as distant, somewhat aloof, woman who raised her children

with sort of almost a coldness. Kerry was a nice guy. He was kind of a quiet guy. Our days would be just getting at bikes in the morning and go to the park, hang out with friends or skateboard.

He loved his brother, hung out with him, played with him, looked out for him. He even had walked almost all the way home, that's when it happened, a man in a car offered him a ride. So the same time that the stainer boys are growing up and were said, about two hours away in the assembly. There's a little stooped pasty, never-she-guine named Ken Parnell. Ken at the Parnell was working at the Yosemite lodge, doing the books for them.

He was convicted previously of molesting a child. But he found a job in Yosemite because that kind of guy could find a job in Yosemite. A lot of people run to Yosemite to get away from things. And Ken decided that he was going to abduct a young boy. He was able to recruit a coworker of his slow-witted fella named Irvin Murphy.

And finally on December 4th, it was a sleedy winchery day.

Stephen, what happened that afternoon do you remember when you were walking home from school?

And they saw this little boy, a seven-year-old Stephen Stainer. Stephen had left school, had a straight south from here, four blocks. And when he was on Yosemite Parkway, which leads to Yosemite National Park, he was approached by Irvin Murphy. Murphy had some religious tracks with him, which he'd been using to approach other kids.

He asked Stephen if he thought that his mother would be willing to make a charitable donation to a church. At that point, Parnell drove up in this old white bioic. Murphy opened the rear door, but Stephen got in. Instead of taking a right so he could go to his home, they continued directly eastbound.

They're driving out of Merced, going up Highway 140. Kenneth Parnell stops the car and he goes to a pay phone. He comes back and tells Stephen, "Your parents are just spoke to them. They no longer want you." And Parnell then told him that you're going to be my son.

He was a seven-year-old, thoroughly-confused kid.

“I think that he is probably used to an authoritative approach by his parents.”

So when Parnell told him that parents, it said that he was going to go with him, I think he probably believed it. Stephen's abduction was sudden wrenching, brutal. He was going to be hiding in plain sight for years. The moment that Stephen Stainer is abducted is the moment that this story of two brothers

really begins and was absolutely pivotal in terms of the monster coming to life. December 4th, 1972, Stephen Stainer was abducted on Highway 140 in the city of Merced by individuals driving an older model white-viewing. And they're driving east toward your sanity. Parnell lives most of his life in the Ocemeti at the lodge. He kept Stephen in his room for about

a week after that. He kept giving him this cough syrup, this sedate him.

“I think that Parnell felt that the more confused and sedated that he could keep Stephen”

in for the first several weeks, the better chance he stood to erase his connection back

to his own family. Stephen didn't make it home from school, his parents immediately were alerted. Merced was a lead priest apart and so they really mounted a large effort to search and they searched and there was just nothing there. It happened here at this corner and there was such a classic situation, the kind against

which parents are constantly warning their children. The next morning, there was an empty desk in the second grade class at Charles Wright School. When he was missing, it rocked the Stainer family. It hurt the family dynamic and it crushed Dell Stainer. He just becomes a broken man, really.

Kay becomes even more distant, more aloof. She's sort of raising her children almost robotically. Kay and Dellvert became colder to their other children. Kerry's very upset. I heard stories about him going out and wishing a star that his brother would come home.

“Maybe he had some guilt because I believe he was supposed to have been with his brother.”

Dellvert kind of saw Stephen as his real son and Kerry kind of felt abandoned, neglected. A few weeks after he had kidnapped Stephen, Parnell pulled up sticks and he started drifting around California.

They moved first to Santa Rosa, they would stay in flea bag motels, a crappy trailer

or a broken down house. Stephen Stainer had a new father figure and it was Kenneth Parnell who, by day, was his father and by night, was his rapist. Parnell told him that his name was going to be Dennis Parnell. He enrolled in school and the school failed to get the records.

In the summer of 1976, just a couple of weeks before the vice-intennial, it's been four

“years since Stephen was told, Ken Parnell is his father.”

Parnell and Stephen ended up in the little town of Compshe, California, which is a Mendocino County. Compshe was really tiny, it had maybe a post office and a general store and he kept him on the grounds in a trailer. So this is where Ken Parnell used to live many years ago, it's a good place to hide, it's a long way from anywhere out here.

Nobody knew what was going on behind closed doors and this wasn't a father son at all. By this time, I'm pretty certain that Parnell felt I've got him emotionally locked in, so he knew that this kid was going nowhere. All outward appearances, he adjusted to that new life. There was no school out there, so every day he had to get him a bus and ride for 30 minutes.

This picture describes what he looked like. His personality, his hairdo, his flannel shirt, his smile. My name is Laurie, and Stephen Stainer was my boyfriend in high school. He had a great personality, he was spunky, you could see that he wanted to play and be with kids and be normal.

Growing up with him, consisted of a lot of fishing, riding bicycles. He sort of reminded me of Shaggy from Scooby-Doo, he had the same haircut and same shape face even. He made his way into getting into athletics his freshman year of high school.

“He had a level of maturity to him that most of the kids didn't have, and I think part”

of that was, you know, he was already smoking cigarettes. A lot of kids had freedom, but not his kind of common go as he pleased, which makes me wonder why he didn't just leave.

The answer is that Stephen now has attached to Parnal on some parental level, and that's

still his dependency day in and day out for food, clothing, and let's face it. It sounds like Parnal basically let him do whatever he wanted to do as far as drugs, alcohol, and so his comfort level now is set in. Because of this sexual abuse, I think that played into it too. He knew that that wasn't normal, I don't think he wanted to have other people know about

it. In some ways, it's just easier to go along with what was happening to him. Stephen still has a reality that he has a real family someplace else. We were walking home and he started crying. He said I want to go home to my real home.

We just let it go, we have been drinking some beer and you know, kids. While Stephen is a freshman at Mendocino High School, some 300 miles to the South, his brother Kerry was an upper class, but it was said high school. He was Kerry Stainer, the kid who had his brother kidnapped. There was a Paul over him.

He actually was voted most creative. Kerry was very well known for his drawings.

“I think that he was very, very good cartoonist, especially even with the humor.”

He always wore hat every time you would see him.

He was wearing the hat because he was compulsively pulling his hair up. Emotionally, Kerry had a tough time during his childhood. I don't remember Kerry ever having a girlfriend. I had never saw him with a girl. Kerry started acting wildly inappropriately towards females.

He exposed himself to one of his sister's friends. It seemed as though he had a compulsion with trying to get close to women or be sexual with them, but he was unable to develop any sort of interpersonal relationships with any women. There is a surreal contrast in this.

You have one brother who's been subjected to just unspeakable horror for years. But by all appearances, he's a happy go-lucky, jovial kid with a girlfriend. You have the other brother who's left at home, and it wasn't that he was just a loner, he was a bit of a creepy loner.

And Parnell then moves him to a very new remote location, then he can sort of in his mind stay one step in front of law enforcement. Ken Parnell takes Steven to this small little town called Manchester, kind of along the coast of Northern California. Ken is looking for another creepy person boy.

Steven knew what was going to happen, and Steven knew that that was wrong. And he was going to end that.

“What Steven would do in response would make him world themes?”

This episode is sponsored by the podcast The First 48. For homicide detectives, the clock starts at the moment the body is found. If they can't get a lead in the first 48 hours, the chance of solving the case is cut in half. The first 48 has been telling those stories on A&E for two decades.

Now it's a weekly podcast, and you can follow it right now wherever you get your podcasts.

Which week the first 48 takes you inside the critical first two days of a homicide investigation,

the interrogations, the dead ends, the breakthroughs that crack a case wide open, every hour matters, every lead, either holds up or falls apart, real detectives, real cases, real stakes, listen to and follow the first 48 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, music, or wherever you listen to podcasts, that's the first 48. Everybody okay in here?

FX presents Adults, suit you the most mature of any of us. No. You have TSA pre-check, global entry. For me executive producer Nick Crawl, going out alone is a weird, it's mature. I asked my mom.

FX's Adults, all episodes, now streaming on Kuro. In 1979 Ken Parnell pulled up sex again, and he moved with Steven to a small cabin in Manchester, California, which is in the middle of nowhere surrounded by almost nothing. This is for Ken and for Steven a turning point. It was a one room shack, very old and cold.

At some point, Parnell and Steven together realized that Steven was growing up, and that he was no longer going to be able to be controlled by Parnell. Parnell wanted another kid. So in February of 1980, Ken Parnell goes back to the exact same memo that he used to get Steven's standard.

He paid a local kid to ride with them, it's a little ton of you kayak California. This is how he's going to get out on the street to go find him a boy. And he finds five-year-old Timothy White walking home from school. Steven watched Timmy suffer through this separation from his family for two weeks and decided

finally that he had to do something about it.

He literally said, "I was not going to let that child go through what I had already been through." And if I didn't take care of it now, it would just get worse. Eventually Steven got the courage to take Timmy White out of that house, and when Kenneth Parnell went to work, the two hitched hike to the town of Yuccao.

It's dark, and Timmy can't remember where he lived.

“So Steven figures the best thing to do is to take him to the police station.”

Steven Mike, Steve Stainer, was known as Dennis for seven long years, but when he arrives at that police station, he says something that will be embedded in the public consciousness forever.

And on my first name is Steven.

That became title of a book, it became a television movie, and it made Steven famous. Seven long years ago, a youngster in California vanished. Every time he was dead at this point, he'd rescued another boy. Is this Steven today? He's holding five-year-old Timothy White.

Who could make this up? Every television network, every magazine cover, every movie executive, there wasn't anyone, not interest. Steven was a national hero, he returns to her said triumphant. Steven's return has been a joyous event.

Within days, he's on Good Morning America.

“Good morning, Steven, and Mr. and Mrs. Stainer, and Steven, how does it feel to be home?”

It feels great. Did you remember your appearance well?

What about your brothers and sisters?

Well, they changed a lot, I never recognized either one of them.

“Mr. Mr. and Mr. Stainer, how did this affect your other four children?”

When Steve disappeared, the older two were very upset, and I think kind of became very quiet children from the experience. There was a press conference outside the Stainer house in Betty Street, and everyone is smiling. There's a lot of jubilation. This is really some sort of a miracle that Steven's come home.

But if you look in the background, there's something worth noting, and it's Carrie, and his baseball cap, and he's not smiling at all. Carrie, as the older brother, had a very strange relationship down with his younger brother Steven, who was getting all of this attention, and who was a different person.

In the television movie, there's a scene where he's finally reunited with his brother,

Carrie. And Carrie comes in, looking almost like a shaggy, heard surfer, and he's jubilant. He's so thrilled to see his brother. There's nothing to suggest to Carrie, it was all that thrilled to see his brother. They shared a room, they didn't get along, Steven didn't understand the rules that he was

now expected to live by. Steven, what have these years been like for you, adjusting, getting over the seven years you were away from home? For seven years, I've been supposedly an only child. Now I had to compete with the brother and three sisters.

You were away for seven years, and a lot of people still wonder why you didn't try to escape before you finally did escape three years ago.

“When you look back on that, why do you think that is, Steven?”

Well, there's several reasons, I was told I was adopted. You believed it. Yes, I believed it. Okay, what about for you? How do you think it's been for Steven?

I think he's done fantastic. I'm very proud of the way he's joined right in with the rest of us, and he doesn't give us any problems. I tried to explain to her that they might consider some professional counseling, and she told me that she didn't believe that that was going to be necessary.

The adults all thought Steven was a hero, but none of the adults had to go to high school to Steven. It is generally known that there was homosexual activity involved in Steven's abduction. Steven was constantly being made fun of when he came back, which is really sad because the poor guys just been through all these seven years of being molested and everything else.

His sexuality was constantly under attack. There's a scene in the movie in a locker room.

“What was the kind of excitement for you being around those naked guys?”

Where Steven at least is strong enough to fight back, the bullying was just unending. While Steven already has these two sides buffeting him, the adults who say he's a hero and the kids who are just picking on him mercilessly, he's got to do with Parnell as well. There he is sitting in the courtroom and he's got a point to Ken Parnell. Ultimately, Ken of Parnell did face charges of kidnapping and false imprisonment, but

he was never tried for sexual assault in this case.

In the end, there was not sufficient evidence to prove those charges. It was outrageous. There was an outnowed fury over the sense. My angry that he will be back out on the street, I thought laws were to protect the innocent children and it's not because he will be out and he possibly will do it again quite probably.

Ken Parnell went back to what he'd been doing for years. He found someone else to help him find another boy, only the time he was caught. He was sent to prison again, where he died in 2008. While Steven was kind of struggling that he was on life after his return, Kerry was at a high school and having his own troubles.

I think, Kerry after high school seemed a little lost like he didn't know where he was going. When his life was starting to spin out of control, he took refuge in Yosemite. He had this international scout, pale blue, and he would just drive out Highway 140 into Yosemite and disappear up into the woods and get high. Whatever demons were clamoring around in his head by being naked by smoking pot, he could

find the piece that he so desperately needed. One of the things that made a huge impact on him was he was convinced that he saw Bigfoot.

an area known as Forester and Bigfoot's leaping out of the woods in the dark of night.

“It turns out that this incredibly deep obsession with Bigfoot is ultimately going to have”

incredibly tragic consequences. This sanctuary would turn out to be the very setting where Kerry's stainers murderous demons would be unleashed. By 1989, the state of family had fallen far from the spotlight. The world had moved on, the Berlin Wallfell.

There was a big earthquake during the World Series in San Francisco, but the state of brothers were struggling each of them both in their own ways. Steven Celebrity was pretty short-lived. He did make some money for consulting on the TV film, so he actually had a bit part as one of the police officers rescuing himself.

He blew almost all of that money on cars and drugs and booze. He worked some medial jobs. He got married. He had two kids. He was very proud of who he was when he told me.

He was not ashamed at all. He was just very well grounded, you know, for a person that had gone through what he went through. But then of the age of 24, he was riding a motorcycle without a license. He was riding a home from work and a vineyard worker pulled out in front of them and hit him

and flipped him. You just have to feel like this poor man was dealt such a horrific hand of cards in life and in death. You know, Steven really did the best that he could, for seven years he subjected to unspeakable horrors.

He did work for a living. He did fall in love. He did have two kids.

“I see him as being on a good path and that's how I prefer to think of him, you know.”

This one, it says, "Dear Lori, hi, how's everything in com she? Good, I hope.

Wow, wow, he used to always save him, it's not everybody that gets a letter from a famous

person, namely me, love always Steve. So I cherish these letters forever." Steven was gone now, but in a big sense, so was Kerry. Kerry had no direction. He thought his life was going nowhere.

Kerry never recovered from his own emotional difficulties and then coupled with Steven's tragic death. Well, not long after Steven died, Kerry's uncle was shot and killed in the home they shared together. Kerry was very close to his uncle.

Steven's dead uncle, Jerry's murdered. This rage is starting to bubble up. Kerry has a couple of nervous breakdowns. One was fairly violent. He had stated that he felt like jumping in the truck, trying to hit through the shop and

killing the boss and killing everybody in the office and then torching the place.

“And that's when I told him, "You need to go see a doctor, Kerry."”

They got him to a mental health center, but he left. Kerry is literally crying out for help. He's literally saying, "I'm losing my mind." What a lot of people didn't know at the time was that Kerry was having these dreams and these fantasies about killing women.

Kerry was a lost soul and he ended up taking refuge in a place that he loved and that was Yosemite. In the fall of '97, he drove his international scout to the Tiny Town of Elporto, which is the doorstep to Yosemite National Park. By this time, Kerry is in his 30s and he lands a job as a handyman at the Cedar lodge.

The Cedar lodge is this rustic lodge. Seven miles outside the gate of Yosemite. It is surrounded by and filled with these wonderful wooden bear sculptures. Working at the Cedar lodge gave Kerry access to his beloved Yosemite. His idea of serenity was to maybe smoke a little pot and to sunbaid naked.

Oh, he was always naked. No tan lines on him. I hung it up the river with him a lot of times alone.

He never hit on me and I know he never had done any of my friends, never that uncomfortable

Not even the hint of it.

“But not everyone at Cedar lodge was enamored of him.”

There's a woman named Trish Hout, she and her husband ran the restaurant that was attached

to the lodge. They had a teenage daughter that Kerry spent an uncomfortable amount of time with. My daughter would start freaking out because he would just stand there and stare at my child as she's swimming in the pool and I said, you go towards my daughter ever and I will destroy you.

He was cold, hateful, but I thought it was cold and hateful people before. Trish was, in some ways, sort of a savant. She seems to be the only one who saw this side of Kerry. By February 1999, Kerry had been at the Cedar lodge about two years and the winters were very desolate, not a lot of tourists visit the park that time of year.

Winner is a spectacle.

“When the granite is iced and beautiful, white snow, you really get to understand how”

extraordinary these walls are.

Among the small group of people who did come to the Cedar lodge to go see Yosemite was Carol Sond, her daughter, Julie, 16 and their friend named Silvina Polosa. The three of them are on a trip to full, look at colleges and then also to enjoy Yosemite. They had a red potty act that they had rented for this trip. This was an opportunity for them to show Silvina, who was visiting from Argentina, one

of the most beautiful places on earth. And they spent the day touring the park going to a lot of the highlights they went ice skating. That night, most of the other guests had actually gone home and their room was about as far as you can get from the lobby in the restaurant in a dark corner of the lot. They had dinner at the restaurant, then they went to the front desk and got a movie

they were going to go watch back in their room.

All of these rages that have been building up in Carrey, all of these years, he finally

decides he's going to act upon it. For Carrey, he's been planning this for years. There's a fantasy that he's created in his mind. And this is the night when all of this rage is finally let loose. Something clicks at that moment, Carrey Stater knows it's time.

There is so much NFL on ESPN right now, Muddy Night Football, plus pre-game and post-game,

“NFL Live, NFL Primetime, everything you need to stay on top of every game, every”

week. Unbelievable. And now, NFL Network is on the ESPN app, more football, more coverage, more ways to watch. Football's on, all season long, on ESPN and streaming on the ESPN app.

There's a headlight every 30 minutes for our show, I'm pretty sure. Welcome to Get Real. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch. This is the show for the reality TV Obsessed. You thought the show was crazy living it was crazy living it was crazy living.

By drinking sweat for even stops. For the stars and fans of the Hulu reality birth, do we think she's stirring the pot to secure a place on the show? Find and listen to Get Real wherever you get your podcasts and stream new episodes Thursdays on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus, Terms of the Puy.

Kerry had been looking for victims at night, eventually he spied Carol and the girls through the window of their room, and decided to knock on their door. Carol answers, and he says to her, "I need to come in and look for the leak." And she said, "Absolutely not." Girls are in her pajamas.

They're watching Jürgen McGuire on the VCR. What can I do for you? Show me the money. They're done for the day. He persists, says off to move to a different room, if the leak goes on.

"We love you." "We know which the bathroom would check the sand, or I told you we'd probably be working on the bathroom. I'd pull on to the house. I'd turn it to a little bit while it's in my room, if it seems in the car."

He takes Carol's daughter, Julie, and her friend, Sylvia Nuppolo, so, and heard them into the bathroom. And he ties up Carol with duct tape and then strangles her, with a length of rope.

rented that was outside the hotel room door.

“Came back in and pulled the girls out of the bathroom and sexually assaulted them.”

So, you know what resisted? She was hysterical. He brought her into the bathroom and strangled her. So, he takes Julie, puts her into the bathroom in room 510 next door. He then takes Sylvia Nuppolo, puts her in the trunk, along with Carol's son, and returns

to get Julie. "We can pre-late probably five o'clock at 7 o'clock in the morning, and told Julia, we'd get Sylvia to go. There would be an armor.

So, in the car, her hands are duct tape in front of her, and they're wrapped in pink pointer

and this girl, but you know where I was going. The next time Carrie Stainer is seen, is 100 miles away in Sierra Village when he uses

“a pay phone to call a cab to get back to Peter Lodge."”

He said that he had come down from Yosemite with some other people, and that they left him there, stranded him with no way back. As we were approaching, he said he would show me the cabin to where he saw big foot, and he pointed off two ways back, you could see there was a cabin, and he said that big foot came out, ran around the side of the cabin, and then to the trees.

"After leaving Yosemite, the plan was for Carol, Julie, and Sylvia to meet Carol's husband Yens on at the San Francisco Airport. Well, the girls didn't show up at the airport. "We started calling the sheriff in the police, I mean we're scared, and we thought that they were crashed somewhere, there was snow up there, there was icy roads."

As each day went by, and there was no trace of these three women, it became a larger and larger story. "In very mysterious story, three people have disappeared at Yosemite National Park in California."

“"I remember distinctly sitting in the newsroom when the word came that there were three”

women missing from Yosemite.

The very last thing that you think of at first is that foul play occurred.

These things don't happen in Yosemite." "The week of Carol, Julie, and Sylvia, is disappearance from El Pratel. I had been approached because I was the kidnapping coordinator in my office." "This 10 days of combing the outskirts of Yosemite were the trio had been visiting. There are no new leads."

"This is the largest search that has ever been mounted in Yosemite at any time. It included going up and down the roads, looking for places where the car could have going off." "I'm just devastated, I can't imagine how three people in a red car could disappear." "When covering it, you really were empathizing with the families."

"And you know posters, we're doing everything possible." "And the pain that you could feel from the sun, the family, and the polosos who had come from Argentina." "Ask people here in America to help us." "We went up to El Pratel to the Cedar lodge, and we started doing our interviews."

"One of the people in the interview was this helpful handyman named Carrie Stanner. He was not at all flustered." "He just didn't set off any alarm bells. He even told him a story about Stephen." "At one point, he even was opening all the rooms for the FBI to gather evidence."

"Tonight, a desperately needed break in a month-long search for those three missing visitors to Yosemite." "About a month after the disappearance of Carol, Julina, there was a big break in the case, who was California High Patrol Officer, reported the location of the missing rented vehicle. This is about 60-70 miles from the Cedar lodge."

"20 years ago, I was a member of the evidence-response team that just looked a lot different. But behind me is where the vehicle was located." This is a 1999 Pontiac Grand Prix, but it was so completely burned, there were no paint, rubber plastic, a poultry, the initial inspection of the vehicle. We knew we had two bodies based on the remains that were still in the truck.

So there was not much left. There was no way for us to identify who's in that truck." "The forest where the car was found is just a short walk to Sierra Village where Carrie made the phone call to get the cab back to Yosemite." Evidence was found throwing free from the car that didn't burn.

There were the car keys, some shoes, personal CD player, but most importantly, there was a camera found.

"We get the pictures back, and we have Julie and Silvina doing handstands in the room.

“We see all their pictures that they took going through Yosemite."”

"And this is a picture of Silvina and Carol sitting in the far bed. We came to learn that this picture was taken about 20 minutes before Carrie's dinner knocked on their door. So you'd look at these pictures of these wonderful vivacious people and you just want to go home and hug your family because it's too late for them."

"We have recovered two bodies from the trunk of the vehicle. No identification has been made." "When the discovery of the bodies in the burned-out vehicle are made, I wouldn't say it affected the community. I would say it affected the nation."

"Two bodies have been found, but there are still many unanswered questions."

“This was an enormous story, a huge, huge story, and 2020 decided to do an hour on it.”

My producer John Meyerson and I went straight out to Yosemite to cover it. We had an interview with Silvina's mother, and she was the picture of despair and grief. "I knew from the very beginning that my girl was there. How, I don't know, didn't ask me, just felt her mother's intuition was sadly correct. It was Silvina in the trunk of that car, Silvina along with Carol's son."

"It's a father, I feel terrible. I'm supposed to die." "When they realized it was Silvina and Carol, then the big mystery was, where's Julie?" "What are you hoping that Julie is still alive?" "I hope he and the guest hopes that they've got her somewhere."

"The realization that there's a third victim out there that may still be alive, send us

“into a frenzy, and my mind went to, "Oh my God, she's out there, she's being helped prisoner,”

something terrible is being done to her." "In the middle of all this frantic searching, arrives this letter to authorities. With a taunting, tantalizing clue, with a crude map that may finally solve the mystery of what happened to Julie's son. Maybe, just maybe we're going to find this girl alive."

"The mother and daughter who were found dead after disappearing from your sambity National Park." "I mean, this is a story that decades later, they're still talking about it. This was an enormous story, a huge, huge story." "What in the hack are we dealing with here?" "Okay, what day are they murdered her?"

"This is an absolute tragic story of two brothers, one hero and victim and the other, a monster." "The story of Stephen Stainer and the story of Carrie Stainer are going to intersect again in a way no one could have anticipated." Stephen Stainer is a seven-year-old boy who gets plucked off the streets walking home from school by a pad of file, he's held captive for seven years miraculously, he escapes.

"How do you feel?"

"I know my first name is Stephen."

"But it turns out the monsters weren't gone." " Carrie Stainer was very close by." "All of this rage that have been building up in Carrie, he finally decided just going to act upon it." "It was right there. He was right there." " Carrie Stainer is a vicious, vicious killer, but he's even more twisted than that.

And they're about to find out just how twisted." "So it's winter. Merges into spring." The entire valley just seems to come to life, everything turns green again. It's a completely different feeling. It's March 1999 and this spring is different because there is a palpable fear in

Yosemite Park. "The very mysterious story three people have disappeared." "Thug were laughing near the Yosemite valley with a trio had been visiting." "In February, Carol's son and her daughter Julie, in their teenage friend Sovina Polosa, had gotten missing from the Cedar lodge."

"I can't imagine how three people in a red car could disappear." "This doesn't happen in the national parks. There was a sense of panic." "There was nobody here." "Even their locals stopped coming in." "You can't overstate the sense of fear there.

Everybody wanted to know what had happened."

“"But there's still no sign of the bodies for about a month.”

Until a hiker, a stumbles across a burnt out potty act." "We have recovered two bodies from the trunk of the vehicle." "When the FBI announced that only two bodies had been found, that stumped everybody." "I urge anyone with information to immediately call the FBI dip line."

"When they realized it was Sovina and Carol, then the big mystery was, where's Julie?"

Investigators in California continue searching for the third of three women

who disappeared from Yosemite National Park. Two bodies have been found, but there are still many unanswered questions. For about a week, searchers combed the countryside. The roads, the ditches, the rivers, everywhere near that car. But no, Julie.

"Oh my God, she's out there. She's being held prisoner.

“Something terrible is being done to her."”

In late March, the FBI got another big clue. "We are pursuing significant and potentially very viable leads." "This one came in the mail." "And when the letter was opened, you see a line to paper.

And on the top it says, we had fun with this one."

And there's a crude map. And the map shows Route 120. It shows Vista Point. It shows Dawn Pedro Reservoir. And it's about 40 miles away from where the car was found.

They bring up a cadaver dog. And within 10 seconds of going to where this map points out, they find Julie's body. Earlier this afternoon, investigators discovered the body of a homicide victim. A lot of 15-year-old Julie's son was identified earlier in the week.

“When you saw where Julie's son took her last breath,”

the gravity of this story really hit home.

Just to think of her being alone, away from her mom and Solina,

and wondering what happened is terrible. Francis was at also for you the hardest part. That was the end of, you know, any hope. I told the family that we won't stop until we find out what happened until we resolved this. So as we move into the summer of 1999,

you know, somebody's getting back to normal. The tourists you're coming back. And now five months have passed. There has been no more murder. So the sense around you, somebody, was that it was safe.

It was safe because the people that were responsible for this were for crime, according to the FBI, were in custody. When they made the announcement that we have the killers, they believe they have the killers in custody. Huge. Absolutely huge.

We do not believe that there is anyone else there on the loose who is not in custody. These two men were half-brothers. They had criminal records. They were violent offenders.

So there's a sense of relief that, hey, we got these guys everything's okay. With the FBI's assurance, relative sense closure is near. Once they went down that road, it seemed like they just had tunnel vision. And they weren't looking at anything else. People may have thought the rape people were in custody,

and they certainly wanted to believe the rape people were in custody. But they weren't the rape people. Charistina was still working here at the lodge. He was still living here on the premises. He was still an active member of the community.

He was not an unknown quantity. I'll say that. People knew who it was. He was not someone who hid. Didn't really see him as a suspect.

He didn't raise alarm bells for anybody. Stainer was free. I mean, he had gotten away with triple murder. On the more westerly aspect of the park is a little area called Farasta.

You can look down and see this gorgeous meadow and it's called Big Meadow for good reason. And down in that meadow was an old house. It's called the Green Cabin. It's owned by the park service and it's leased out for $1 a year to the Yosemite Institute, which runs educational programs throughout the park.

Living there in the summer of 1999 was a 26 year old woman named Joja Armstrong.

She was loving. She was generous. She was smart. Joie was a naturalist at Yosemite.

“Her job was to take children and teach them the nature of Yosemite.”

I asked her if she was ever afraid. She said, no, we knew they had suspects in custody. She had memorialized it in her diary. At one point even wrote, "The monsters are gone." Meaning the FBI had gone.

The people who did this and they were behind bars. But it turns out the monsters weren't gone. Carrie Stainer was very close by. A new podcast series from ABC Audio in 2020 goes inside a case that has captivated the nation. So many people, Luigi Mangione, is a modern-day Robin Hood.

People weren't cheering the demise of this person they'd never met.

It was a father of two and a husband and had a life and was just doing a job. From the manhood, ending in a McDonald's in Altuna, Pennsylvania, to what authorities are saying about a possible motive.

“I'm ABC News Legal Analyst Brian Buckmeyer.”

Listen to "Burn in a Proof" Luigi Mangione, wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, this is Jay. The Hulu Original, Chad Powers. Someone's obsessed with Chad Powers. He really is a master of disguise.

Chad is hot. From Glenn Powell and the creator of Loki, I might be an overman head. Please, do not get caught.

The Hulu Original, Chad Powers.

From the source, they're gonna have fun. Coach, find out your best holiday in actually murders you. September 3rd, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for Bundle Subscribers, term supply. There's actually a road that connects from where the cedar lodges into Yosemite. It's a back road that very few no people know about.

“The end of the road is where Joey Armstrong was living.”

And that's the road that Carrie Stainer took that day. He drove his International Baby Blue Scott up to Ferreste. Where it seemed big foot, he went up there with some regularity. He had gotten out of his truck and he was looking around. He wasn't out hunting for anybody.

But an opportunity presented itself. Now, Carrie Stainer was down here in this area. He sees up at the Green Cabin, this petite blind girl. It's almost the weekend and Joey's very excited. She's got a trip planned to meet some friends.

She's just going in and out of her house, packing up her truck, getting ready to leave. Her toy order to coma is parked here. The back hatch is open, he then approaches her as she's putting things in and out of her truck. You just wonder if at the randomness of it all. What if she was in the cabin?

What if she'd packed up a half hour earlier? What if she'd left? And it turned out to be a situation where evil truly meets opportunity. Now, just so they're thought rocks in the creek and the afternoon should walk out again and again. It seemed like she's alone.

He comes closer and has he comes closer. She is what he thinks he wants. Something instantly changes with Carrie Stainer. And he's ready to kill again.

Just like in the first murders, he goes back to his truck and he gets his murder kit.

He gets out his backpack. He's got a gun, he's got duct tape, he's got a knife. He's standing somewhere in this vicinity and he's talking to her and he's making conversation. He was a guy who, you know, they're getting strong and athletic and as he's a movie star white teeth, he would just be like a little oddity, but as he's talking to her

about big foot, he's trying to look behind her and look over her shoulders. See if anyone's in the house. And then pretty quickly, it would have gone to flat out there. Let's put up the gun and put it to her hand. She tore out the feet down.

The shoulder going side. He uses the gun to direct her to the back of the house and into this rear bedroom. He starts finding her with the duct tape that he's brought. And his kit, she fights with everything she has. He barely was able to overcome her.

She was very strong and I don't mean just a strong woman in the sense of emotionally strong, but she was physically strong. This was supposed to be easy for Carrie.

When she did, she's totally controlled and then he takes her and guides her here. He picked her up and tossed her in the back seat and started driving away.

The first line Joey Ruth Armstrong was in trouble was when she didn't meet up with a friend and

we're in county on Wednesday. When Joey doesn't show up, obviously her friends are bewildered and they're frightened, absolutely freaked out. Her friends called Yosemite and now the search was on for Joey Armstrong. I received a page and I called in and they asked if I was available for a search.

“What covering a number of leads that are not confined to the park?”

That's about all I can tell you at this point. As they came in and looked, they could not find her and they also found debris on the floor of the cabin. They found broken sunglasses. They found a red mechanics rap. They were very concerned. You know, you're just looking for anything it doesn't fit. And then a few feet down the stream, I noticed what I thought was an inanimate object,

kind of bobbing in the water and I went over and I saw that it was a person. To their shock and dismay, they saw that her head had been removed. This was just as grizzly as seen as you could possibly imagine.

It was incredible and horrible what had happened to Joey Armstrong.

You know, in your own personal life, you have said many times before, I can't imagine the pain of losing a child. You don't believe it to you, you don't believe it's her. You, you're going no, no. Carrie Stainer left behind a load of evidence and he knew it. Unlike the first three murders where he left virtually no evidence, he knew that he had left a very easy trail for investigators.

“About two hours north of Yosemite is a new discolony, which turned out to be the key to the whole thing.”

A car ride is about to happen. And during that car ride, the story of Stephen Stainer and the story of Carrie Stainer are going to intersect again in a way no one could have anticipated. [Music] Laguradel Sol is like any other resort, except people don't have clothes on. There's camping and there's some cabins and there's some shuffleboard and volleyball and

there's a restaurant that a bar and a darks league. I'm told people go to Laguna del Sol from all over the country. I don't think you're trying to hide if you're going to a nudis colony. And it's the last place that Carrie Stainer would be a free man. The Yosemite Park Naturalist was found decapitated.

The 26 year old body was found Thursday near her Yosemite home. Joy Armstrong's murder sent shockwaves through Yosemite Valley. Here was another murder in the Yosemite area and this time it was actually in the park.

This is the second high-profile murder case connected to Yosemite this year.

Three tours disappeared from the Elportal area in February and were later found dead. People didn't know what to think, where they connected, where they not connected. If they weren't connected, then what's happening?

“I had called some of the investigators to ask them, do you think they're related?”

And it was a resounding no. And we have absolutely no reason to believe, no indication that there is any linkage at all. You don't want to cause undue panic, you don't want to cause undue concern. Until you know the facts. We got 16 teams going out.

There wasn't really much time for us to speculate on whether this was related. I mean, it quickly became related. Somebody had spotted a very unique vehicle, a blue and white international scout, the same vehicle that Carrie Stainer drove. On the same road, where Joey lived around the same time that she was murdered.

And that was the first thing that authorities followed up on. The tracks of the vehicle that drove away from Joey's house, left furry clear traps, and they were able to get very clear pictures. And then they started looking for this guy, Carrie Stainer, because he would be a natural witness to interview.

"They're looking for Carrie Stainer," and I said, "What?"

“And he's really now starting to feel that news tightened around his neck.”

Now, Carrie Stainer realizes he has to get out. He packs up and leaves and ends up driving to that nudist colony, Laguna del Sol. He pitched a tent outside, went in, there's a bar and restaurant, and he was socializing with people inside, and struck up a conversation with a woman there.

Things, well, things are not so well now. I decided to pack up my stuff in fact, and I'm headed north. They had put the bowlobe and look out for on the news, and so had gone out that people were looking for Carrie Stainer. Authority set off a man hunt for him yesterday.

And it just so happens that the woman he struck the conversation with saw the news. And I immediately picked up the phone called FBI and told him that I knew where this person was.

“That morning, FBI agent Jeff Ryanock gets a call.”

He's supposed to meet up with a couple of other agents at Laguna del Sol right away. So, as I'm driving and proceeding down here, the next train that thought, please, oh my god, we're going to a nudist colony. For me, a nudist colony means Peter Sellers, a shot in the dark, and a guy walking across the screen with a guitar over his genitals.

The nudist colony is not a place I ever thought I would be in my FBI career. The manager came out and said, "Yeah, he's inside sitting at the corner booth, and you'll be able to find him because he doesn't only want him wearing clothes." God here parked, and as they walk into the restaurant area, Stainer gets up and puts his hands up. He's thin, he's athletic, he's tall, he is handsome, he looks like a movie actor to me.

And he's very soft-spoken and cooperative. He didn't do the, "Hey, who are you? Why are you handcuffing me? What's going on here?" Put him in the car, and he and Jeff drove off, and I followed. It's just the two of them. Stainers in the front seat, Ryanock has no idea the magnitude of what is happening.

Nobody told him that Carrie Stainer is a suspected murderer. What happened during that drive? Between Carrie Stainer and that FBI agent changed the story forever. It was a very pleasant drive. We were two guys that were just stuck together. One thing that Special Agent Ryanock is really good at is getting people to open up. You meet someone, and you're asking them questions about themselves.

Jeff being Jeff said, "Hey, Stainer, you're not paying your relation to Stephen Stainer." He'd been kidnapped from a mercetostreak corner in 1972 when he was just seven years old. He goes, "Have you ever seen that movie?"

I know my first name is Stephen.

And that's when essentially he asked my brother. In that moment, he's just connected with some guy who's supposed to pick up. Well, this is horrible. You're Stephen Stainer's brother. That's terrible what happened to him. And he went on to describe that unlike the world expected, life was not happily ever after. All of a sudden, Carrie Stainer gets upset.

He gets emotional about his brother, Stephen. My brother was held captive for seven years, and his abducter, Kenneth Parnell, only got seven years. How can that be fair? And he asked me if I thought that was just, and I told him absolutely no. Something truly remarkable happened in that car.

Carrie Stainer, who had such trouble with relationships and intimacy and connections, developed a connection with Jeff Reinick that would absolutely change this case. So after that, they actually bond over something else. It's a movie. It's called Billy Jack. And the very popular song associated with that movie called "One Tin Soldier."

And I said to him, "You know, you look just like Billy Jack, have you ever seen the movie?"

“And he said, "No, I kept asking him. You sure you haven't seen Billy Jack?”

No, haven't seen Billy Jack." Well, there's this line in the movie that it's a classic line. After the finish they're long-riding, they've had their little bonding moment over Stephen. They're walking into the FBI field office, and Carrie Stainer says, "I'm going to take this right foot."

And I'm going to walk you. That side of your face. There's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Really? So we're a little moment where he just finished saying he'd never seen this movie.

But he knew the classic line. He's laughing all the way. I thought, "I'm like, yeah, that's pretty good. He's shit out." You know, now they're walking in, and they're having a good laugh together.

But remember, Agent Reinick doesn't really know what it's about or what to expect. Carrie Stainer, on the other hand, knows exactly what he has planned and it's going to be a bombshell. Jeffrey Reinick and Carrie Stainer have been in the car for two hours from that nudist camp

when they finally arrived at the FBI offices in Sacramento.

Neither Jeff nor I really knew why we were there and talking to him. We didn't know what his involvement was if any. The three of us are settled in the room, eating pizza. As a general rule, when law enforcement is interrogating a suspect, they don't order pizza. It's not textbook. It was grasping its straws to figure out where do we start to begin the interview.

Carrie starts launching off into this is going to be my last meal as a free man. Out of the blue, he looks at the agents and says, "I can give you closure." I said, "Cary, what exactly do you mean closure and about what?" He says, "You know why we're here." And he told us, "Hey, I can answer some questions about joy and more."

And we didn't know what that was. They thought Carrie Stainer was a witness to something and suddenly out of the blue,

“he's dangling a confession to these FBI agents so I think we're shocked in many ways.”

But he has a condition and absurd horrible condition. Who would go into an FBI office and ask to FBI agents to see child pornography? That's not your everyday request. And he said, "And not just a couple three, four images." I'm talking about a stack that high.

Well, can you imagine what these FBI agents are thinking? What in the heck are we dealing with here?

You never say no to them. You basically put them off, St.

We're going to get to that. I know you want that. I'd like you to have it. But you move it down the ladder.

“They managed to buy some time. So in the meantime, what do you have?”

And then Carrie starts to talk about jelly. Okay, we're going to start talking about her. In the interview, Jeff continues the bond that they had created in that car ride and wants Stainer to continue to talk. If it hadn't been for bonding over Steven and that car ride, this whole confession might never have happened.

It seemed like she's alone. Not a backpack, small green backpack. In the backpack, I had a 22 with all of her. He was talking about some very grizzly things. As if he was reading a soup label. She stepped up on the porch and was talking to me and she turned around.

It's going to pull out the gun and put it to her head and she turned around and freaked out. It's very unsettling to listen to Carrie Stainer. He's calculating. He's creepy. The thing that Jeff does in a very magical way is to not be judgmental, to keep Carrie talking.

The bottom line is, nobody's going to talk to you if they think you're disgusted by what they're

saying. She's just quite good. I didn't hear her anything. I just used threats and begun to do her, because I tried to duck deeper hands and her bash to find me. He wanted us to know he was not beating her or being violent or sadistic. He wants to control what we think of him. It becomes pretty clear to me that he's just this big emotionless monster and Joey comes across as heroic because she was a fighter and he was a coward.

He successfully binds her with the duct tape and he binds her to the point where all she can

“pretty much do is walk. The key to everything is what Carrie Stainer says next.”

The question always has been, why was Joey's body found where it was found in the woods? How did it get there? Why did it get there? And Carrie Stainer is about to reveal exactly what happened. I think that's frustrating. She started going crazy. She's jumping all the way to the place in the back of the truck and I couldn't go to the controller and she fell off to the window. She didn't fall out. She was fighting everywhere. She could get out of that car and she did

and he didn't expect it. The idea that she was able to found, fling herself out of the moving car in an almost superhuman way, is absolutely astounding.

is where he caught her. The investigators told me that I should be very proud of her. That because she fought, there was a lot of evidence. Carrie Stainer has lived up to his promise. He gave them the confession. Joey Armstrong, but remember, he said he had more. The end more now is

what's critical without him getting his precious kiddie porn. We were advised that he could not

have the condition he wanted. Now, my biggest fear was in place. We still weren't sure that he had done son polo. Jeff is very empathetic and he was saying, I can already see a change in you.

“You seem like you're feeling better. Whatever this is, that's inside you, you need to get it out.”

Well, it was a dramatic period of silence that was followed by him saying, okay, let's do it. So now he's giving the agents this blow by blow of every gruesome detail.

And at the same time, he's giving him a glimpse inside these strange thoughts that he was

having. She was very cooperative. He constantly reminds us that she was cooperative, that she did everything he wanted her to do. The things he wanted to do to her, that somehow she wanted him to. He's painting a picture as if he has some kind of

“relationship with Julie. I'm treating the car and just go, but he knows where I was going and”

don't ask you the deal. You're at Don Patriots, this beautiful reservoir, and he's telling us a story about how he's going to have to let her go almost like he's doing her a favor. This is nothing to do with love. It has everything to do with playing out this violent fantasy in his head. I asked him, how did you carry her and he goes, you know, like this. And I said, you mean like a groom carries a bride and he says, yeah, like that.

It was a brutal homicide. What actually happened had no relation to in any way what he was

“describing to us. But he said after he killed her, he stood here and he marveled out at the view”

of the rising sun was so hard to understand how someone could just disassociate from what they had just done and look out and enjoy the beauty of nature. But it's not over. Mom's shelves are on the way. I loved Carrie. I could not believe what I just heard. My name is Lana and I grew up in a small town right outside the 70 National Park. My sister and I met Carrie in 1998. My mom was a waitress at the Cedar Lodge where Carrie was

a main insman and lived above the restaurant. They were in a relationship. I must have been 10 to 11 years old. He was in his 30s. He was handsome. He was warm. Like a big teddy bear. A safe person to be around. We were excited when Carrie would come over. He would buy us a new beanie baby almost every time we saw him because that was pretty big in the 90s. My sister and I would be walking up the driveway and we'd see Carrie's dinner coming up and it's scout and

jump in the truck and he'd give us a ride up to our house. I loved him a lot. I don't know if you knew how much I did. He was a happy part of our life. Such a happy part that turned into such a dark part of our life. One of the most disturbing things Stainer told Jeff was that

Carol Sivina and Julie were not his first choice. Carrie actually planned to kill a whole

other set of people and this was a complete surprise. I could not believe what I just heard. I was

Have we not gotten Stainer? They could have been next.

“The day after Valentine's Day he had intended that would be the day that he carries out his”

fantasy and the object was his then girlfriend and her two daughters. While he was there there was another person on the grounds that stopped in and deflected what he could do. So Carrie abandoned his initial plan to kill his girlfriend and her daughters. He said when he got back to the Cedar Lodge at night he was really ramped up. He's actually stalking. He's looking. He's predatory. As he's walking past the 500 building he sees who we now know to be Carol,

Julie in Savannah. The FBI has been summoned to help find three missing women. He was right

under everyone's nose. The entire time he was right there. He was right there.

“I do remember him always carrying his backpack. I remember seeing it in the truck. It was always”

with him. Like a woman carries a purse. I later learned that he had a murder kit, murder and rape kit, in his backpack that he wanted to use against my mom, my sister and I. It is frightening. Just to think that the things that were inside of it and what he was thinking the whole time. Late last night federal authorities arrested this man, 37-year-old Carrie Stainer.

The FBI went in and spoke with my mom privately to let her know that

Carrie Stainer had confessed to initially wanting to kill my mom and rape and kill my sister and I. I kept it quiet for 20 years. I didn't address it. My whole family fell apart. My mom was extremely shocked. As a mother myself, I don't know if I would have been able to handle that. My daughter is the same age right now that I was when I met Carrie.

“I think at such a young age I learned that you couldn't trust adults.”

I still have issues trusting people and I don't know if I'll ever feel completely safe. We're survivors but it took a really big part of our life away. It destroyed part of my childhood. I had not been back to the cedar lodge until last year and it sent chills up and down my spine. I just remember he would show us how to dive perfectly. My sister and I both wanted to be the best at it.

It feels like it was so long ago that you forget that it even happened like a dream or you a movie that you watched and almost doesn't even feel like it was you. There's a big part of me that still wonders if he still thinks of those two little girls that adored him so much because we think about him all the time. Does he even remember it does he care?

Everybody wondered what was going on in his mind. Everybody wondered why. I went to ask if Carrie wanted to talk and within minutes I'm faced the face with him and he just opened up. I now had answers to all of our questions. I asked him if he would bring us back to these places because he was talking about evidence. He took us to all the spots and he knew exactly where everything was.

And he pointed out that direction and he said he took the role of duct tape and the knife and he threw it out there as far as he could with the recovery of the duct tape and the watch and the knife which was the murder weapon. Now we're talking evidence. With the confession and all the forensic evidence, Carrie Stainer was found guilty and was sentenced to death. He has spent years in San Quentin Prison on death row. He's now 57 years old.

I don't forgive him. I can't. But at the same time I still have a hard time looking at him as a monster.

real thing. I went to ask if Carrie wanted to talk and he just opened up. He told me that

“he'd had these feelings since he was a seven-year-old child and it had been resisting these feelings”

for years. It was almost as if he was trying to get credit for being a good soldier. He said, "I want a movie of the week made about my story. There was a movie made about Steven Stainer and he wanted the same treatment. He wanted the world to take note."

As far as I know he's never talked to anyone about the effect Steven might have had on his crimes.

I'm not sure there isn't any direct cause in effect. Steven could have grown up normal, happy and healthy and Carrie still would have been a serial killer.

“It's difficult to picture what Carrie has done because knowing Steve, their personalities are”

completely opposite. The only time Steve would kill anything like a fish is because we were going to eat it. You know what I mean? I wouldn't think that he would think of himself as one, but he is a hero. Steve was a hero there, a lot of people.

Because of Steven, Timothy White got a second chance at a childhood,

but like Steven didn't live long. He died at the age of 35 of a blood clot to the lung. There's a statue and were said no of Steven and Timothy White in their holding hands. Yes, terrible things happened to Steven, but his legacy is that he saved another kid from having his suffer the same terrible things. That's really how he should be remembered. We understand why the Stainer brother story garnered so much global attention, but when it's all

over, who should we really be remembering the sons, so Vina Paloso, Joey Armstrong, these are beautiful people who met their death too soon. The only solace I get is that she's with God Almighty and I will see her again. Joey's legacy carries on in Yosemite. There's something else called Armstrong Scholars. Every summer, a group of girls from the ages of 15 and 18 are brought into the park

to spend a week exploring learning about it, which is exactly why Joey was there in the first place.

“Whatever terrible things happened in the world, I think people come to beautiful places”

like this because they know that nature has healing power. This is the place of beauty where evil will be vanquished. And that's our program for tonight. Thanks so much for watching. I'm David Muir. And I'm Deborah Roberts from all of us here at ABC News in 2020. Good night. [BLANK_AUDIO]

Mysteries unravel and stunning truths are revealed when 2020 bestigates. Follow the clues, the evidence, the breaking new details. ABC's 2020 News, true murder mystery shocking. If you follow true crime in 2020, then you've got to listen to this. Subscribe now to 2020 True Crime Plus.

Add free exclusive true crime content. Search 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple podcasts and start your free trial. Terms apply.