True Crime Vault: The Secret in the Suitcase

- I'm hormonal! - Boohoo! We are all hormonal! - Set up to the fight, eat, go mid-ah!

“- FX presents adult, suit you the most mature of any of us.”

- No. - You have TSA pre-check, global entry. (upbeat music) - For me, executive producer Nick Crawl. - Going at alone is a weird, it's mature.

(cheering) - I asked, my mom! - FX is adult, premier's August 27th on FXX, all episode streaming on Hula. (screaming)

- Step into the 2020 True Crime Vault, listen to our most ripping stories. (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music)

(dramatic music) (dramatic music) - The last thing they would expect is to find a suitcase with a human body in it. (dramatic music)

(dramatic music)

“- The big question is how the hell did he get there?”

- They were crazy and love at first,

but it quickly became tumultuous. There were infidelity, they built back and forth. They fight, I think they liked the drama of it. - And the next thing coming out of his mouth is, when I get home, I'm gonna kill you and smash your face in.

(dramatic music) He said he was leaving, and he wasn't coming back. (dramatic music) Were you ever angry enough to want to see him dead? (dramatic music)

- There were times I wanted him gone, but God doesn't mean dead. - And now, just said, "Well, I'm a single mom now." And now, I just gotta get down with my life. (dramatic music)

- I said, "Well, no, the next thing is, "we've got to figure out who did this to him." And after I got off the phone, I said, "She did it." - They couldn't find any forensic evidence whatsoever to establish that this was a crime scene.

Do you still insist that you're innocent? - Absolutely. I still feel like I could somebody think that I did that.

“- I think she did not actually commit the crime.”

It turns out, it isn't the end of this story. (dramatic music) - My name is Megan Sachs. I'm a criminologist at Fairly Dickinson University. In simplest terms, criminology is the scientific study

of what causes crime. And how the criminal justice system responds to crime. - I've written about 25 to crime books over the years, and I think Melanie McGuire's is perhaps one of the most interesting ones

and baffling. - This is Melanie McGuire, who arrested today minutes after dropping off her children at daycare. - Melanie McGuire, a New Jersey nurse,

was accused of killing her husband, cutting up his body and throwing it into the Chesapeake Bay. - In 2007, what was being called the suitcase murder trial was generating an enormous amount of media attention,

not just to New Jersey, but all across the country. Three bizarre discoveries, three separate suitcases, all containing human remains. - The woman who was on trial for her very life. - She says the real truth behind the crime

has never been revealed. - With no history of violence and no apparent motive for murder, could she really have done it? - She was this beautiful young nurse, and they were this seemingly normal middle class couple,

and the murder happened in such a grizzly way. - The idea that this beautiful nurse could have actually killed her husband,

and then, cutting up, is just incredible.

- Of course, there were the psilacious aspects. - Mrs. McGuire is a registered nurse, and prosecutors say she had an affair with a doctor. - She didn't fit the profile, I guess, of a murder. Over the years, students and colleagues of ours

have come to me and said, you know, Melanie McGuire proclaims her innocence and would love to tell her story as they're thinking, "Oh, maybe there is a little more to this case than what you just see on the surface."

And then the idea of a podcast came up, and I was all in. On director Peel, we examined the murder conviction of Melanie McGuire following a highly publicized trial. Looking at the evidence that was presented, and the evidence that may have seemed insignificant at the time,

we form our own conclusion about Melanie's guilt. - We here at ABC have our own history with the Melanie McGuire case back in 2007,

ABC's Cynthia McFadden had the first on-camera interview

with the mother of two on trial from murdering her husband. - Well, is the Melanie McGuire you hope to jury? - No. - The one who tried to take care of everybody, who didn't make the smartest decisions,

but admitted to those mistakes to the people she trusted most,

- I have been incarcerated for 12 and a half,

going on 13 years now. Do you still insist that you're innocent? - Absolutely. - You're sitting here a wrongfully convicted person. - Correct.

- Absolutely. - And what have those years been like? - I tell people it's not as bad as you think in some ways, and it's so much worse than I could ever articulate in others. After all these years, I still feel hurt.

I still feel bothered.

“I still feel like, how could somebody think that I did that?”

- This whole saga begins on May 5th, 2004, with an odd discovery in Virginia Beach.

- Early morning, a couple of fishermen in there,

kids are out on a boat by the Chesapeake Bay. - Me and my friend, Don, Connors, was gonna go out fishing, and we both had days off and would dee or Don, we called them dee, said, "Keep this kids out of school,

"we're gonna take them fishing." So everybody was excited. We went right out through this bridge here, and for keep on going, you're running, right in the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel.

- In the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel is about 17 and a half miles long. That really is quite astonishing. It connects the eastern shore of Virginia to Virginia Beach. - It has two tunnels for two shipping channels, and once you get on the other side,

“you go north, you're up in Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey.”

So we went out there and anchored off a fisherman's island, and we were just doing some fishing. - And suddenly one notices that a suitcase is floated by. - We built a boat around, pulled up alongside it. I immediately thought it was probably blue off of a car,

and off of a luggage rack or something. Dee and his son had reached over and we're trying to pull it up in. It had some weight to it. - So I stopped the boat, reached in and helped to pull the thing up in there. And laid it in a floor to boat.

- They found a dark green Kenneth Cole suitcase in pretty good condition that was apparently part of a luggage set of three. - They put it on board, and the little boy with them is very, very excited. He thinks he's buried treasure.

So he wants to open it. - The contents were covered with a thick trash bag. Like a hefty bag or something.

“And I said, "Uh-oh, I was a little bit nervous”

"than when I saw the black bags in there." So, it's a turn to say something to Dee, and while I was talking to Dee, the young boy reached down and ripped open the plastic trash bags, there was no doubt of what it was.

It's a set of human legs. - There's a pair of male legs from the knee down. Look very fresh, and they recall in horror. - All look down there, it's an old migration center. So I closed the bag back up, and I dial 911.

I was out in control in Chesapeake Bay. When I received a radio call, I made arrangements with him to meet me, and he transferred a suitcase over to my boat. - I handed him the luggage, and he seemed surprised, because what do you want me do with that?

I said, "Open it up." - I was pretty shocked.

I've never seen a suitcase with body parts in it before.

There really wasn't any smell. They actually look kind of fresh. - The first suitcase being found was big news. It's not a common find by any means, especially in this area.

- This is an alarming story. Everybody wanted to know who the man in this suitcase was. - We kind of figured I had to be other suitcases with other parts in it. - After the initial shock of them finding this suitcase,

everyone was just waiting for it. What was going to wash up next? (dramatic music) - The Chesapeake Bay area, there's a lot of voters. There are bird watchers.

There's fishermen's island, a nature sanctuary. This is really kind of a tourist, a fun area. - People are going there to relax, they're going with their families. The last thing they would expect is to find

a suitcase with a human body in it. - It was the start of the summer tourist season, which is huge for Virginia Beach, and getting that kind of negative publicity

was something they did not need.

“Six days later, the student was on Fisherman's island”

in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay, which is a nature preserve. And she saw a dark green Kenneth Cole suitcase. - She was curious what could be contained inside and she actually pulled a little bit of the black trash bag

out of the suitcase. It was such a strong odor of decomposition that she immediately stopped and notified the refugee workers. - The police, they've been expecting this

'cause after the first Kenneth Cole bag with the legs,

they suspected there was gonna be more. - It was transported to the medical examiner's office and Northup and that's where we actually viewed what the contents inside. Inside the suitcase would be the torso

and the head of a male. The torso was still attached with the arms and the head. - The head was wrapped in look like a medical blanket. - The face was somewhat identifiable, but it had been submerged for a while,

so extremely bloated.

“- The medical examiner is able to determine”

that the victims been shot multiple times. There are a couple of gunshot wounds in the torso area and one through the head. There were two bullets that were recovered from the body, quad-cutter bullets.

And quad-cutter bullets are not typically used by the average person, but they are used for target practice. - It became a very big local story. - A student discovered a suitcase near Fisherman Island

inside a human head. - It's getting a lot of coverage.

- It's the second suitcase in a week

found near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel and the second one containing body parts. And everybody was waiting for the rest of the body to turn up. - The third suitcase was found on May 16th, 2004

in the water by a fisherman. - He saw the suitcase floating in the water. The third suitcase that had been in the water longest did have some growth on it from floating in the water for so long.

- This suitcase contained the pelvis, so from the waist down to above the knees. - Farties realize they have to figure out who it is. - Anytime you find a known body, the first thing you're gonna do is look into missing person,

cases to see if the profile matches anyone who's currently missing. - Because of the naval bases in the area,

they're checking military records,

they're checking everything they can possibly think of to figure out who this person is. - One of the policemen working on it came up with the idea of getting a sketch artist who I did immediately took photographs to our sketch artist.

And she was able to do a sketch for us and we eventually released it to the media. - We're hoping maybe this will give us an edge and maybe identify him sooner. - Right now, he's just John Dove.

- May 21st, Suzie's the picture on TV of a sketch that they had done to find out who this person was. - Suzie, if it getting out of the shower one morning, the television was on and then she was getting out, telling off she was the TV.

- This is a sketch of the body that watched a sure near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel this month. - He belongs to somebody. I mean, he's got loved ones. - She thinks that my God, that looks like Bill.

- Su is pretty sure that it was Bill McGuire. This is John and Sue Rice. Bill McGuire is a good friend. Bill and John had been friends since their early Navy days. Bill was friends with Sue as well.

Melanie and Sue, the couple's had vacation together. Sue immediately calls her husband to take a look and he's not so sure it's Bill, but Sue's convinced it is in fact. And says, please cool crime stuff is.

- He was very good friends with Mr. McGuire. He told me that Mr. McGuire will live in Woodbridge, New Jersey. He was married to Melanie McGuire and they had two small children. - He wanted to know more about the dynamics of Bill.

Why I thought it could be Bill.

“And the only way that I thought it could be Bill”

is that yeah, he's missing too. - John Rice, that spoke to Cindy Lagos, who is William McGuire's sister. - I got a call from Cindy. She said, John is Billy Bear.

- And I said, no, he's not. What's going on? - He said, well, Bill and Melanie got an argument and he left and he hadn't been heard from him. - He said he was leaving and he wasn't coming now.

My husband was full of bluster when it came to stuff like that. He would say things like that all the time. I didn't actually believe it was the last time I was ever going to see my husband.

- William McGuire had, in fact, vanished Mr. Rice and his wife, Mrs. Rice, eventually agreed to come down to the police department, and Virginia Beach, and view some photos.

And that's what I kept zoning in.

And when I saw the picture, that's exactly what I zoned in on. I mean, I've known Bill for 22 years. I kept seeing that.

“And I was pretty certain that it was Bill.”

- Once we had a name and approximate age, we ran him through our computer system. - He ran a check on Bill McGuire, and he found that McGuire had been arrested in Virginia for a reckless driving charge in the 1980s.

- His fingerprints were on file already, which made it a lot easier. And they're very quickly able to confirm that the fingerprints matched. - The man in the suitcases was identified

as 39-year-old William McGuire

of Woodbridge, New Jersey.

- So according to Melanie, she just thinks her husband is missing, but she is about to get the news that will change her life forever. - And I set up, so I had to tell you, man,

that William is deceased. And I just, I just burst into tears.

“- Now they've sold the mystery of who the bad”

in the suitcases, the big question is, how the hell did he get there? - Mysteries unravel and stunning truths are revealed when 2020 investigates. - Follow the clues, the evidence,

the breaking new details. - ABC's 2020 news, true murder mystery. - shocking. - If you follow true crime in 2020, - then you've got to listen to this.

Subscribe now to 2020 True Crime Plus. Add free exclusive true crime content. Search 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts and start your free trial. Terms apply.

- In a sunny California in summer, one family's home is unusually quiet. - When detectives walked into that house, they said that it was like time just stood still. - It's 2010, and the mixed day family is nowhere to be found.

Inside the home, no clear answer where the family could have gone. - Has been wife and two children, all gone like, poof disappeared. - The search for the mixed days quickly captures the nation.

But for years, the search for answers only brings more questions.

“- Who's ever heard of an entire family going this day?”

- A family of four doesn't just drop off the face of the earth with no contact. - Is this a family on the run? Or is the truth far more sinister? From ABC Audio in 2020, this is what happened to the mixed days.

- Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or your favorite podcast app. Or subscribe to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts to listen early in ad-free. - The melody in the glass story is centered around New Jersey.

- They lived in the working class part of New Jersey where the soprano's took place, which was perhaps the hottest shirt at the time. (upbeat music) - Melanie is a Jersey girl.

Born in raised there, parents are Linda and Michael Caprarro. - She's a great, great daughter, mother, friend, full of life, fun-loving, a good girl,

never in trouble, never in trouble.

- Always trying to help people. - She's working in the restaurants in Jersey. She's a waitress, and she met Bill McGuire. He was also a server. - Bill is known as the rude waiter

because he wouldn't speed people up in a jocular way, but they loved it, and he would ask for the rude waiter. - What was he like? - Funny, Clever, he had a big heart when he wanted to. He wanted all the right things.

- He was a very, very loyal, he was a tremendous friend. When I first met Bill, I didn't know what to make of him, 'cause he wasn't really a practical Joker and whatnot, and I thought,

when this guy could probably get on somebody's nerves, you know what I'm talking about in the hall, but he was so funny. He just kind of overcame whatever resistance he might have to. - Melanie was a fertility nurse when I met her. It's just so caring, so nurturing.

- She was working with women who were going through really tough times, trying to get pregnant. She was very compassionate, and her patients really loved her. - What made you a good nurse? - Type A personality.

The way I looked at it, I was not going to be happy with anything less than the total comfort level of my patients. - In 1998, Bill called John and I and told us

Melanie, she's a really nice person to be around. Physically, she's beautiful, she's very smart. - She had a lot of the same sense of humor that Bill had when Bill was making drugs. - Melanie would be right in there.

- He liked to raise people, she would raise them right back. He really was crazy daughter.

“- What was your relationship with Bill like in the beginning?”

- In the beginning, it was, it was the challenge, it was the chase. It was, we had a bit of a tempestuous relationship even before we, we got married. We would break up, get back together. - Bill and Melanie dated for quite a while.

They were crazy and love at first,

but it quickly became tumultuous. There were infidelity, they'd go back and forth, they'd fight, I think they liked the drama of it. - I think she thought she could make a difference in his life. I think she thought that she could maybe change him,

make him happy. She truly did love him. - You guys want some more champagne? - Yeah. - All right, let me look at it as well.

'Cause there's nothing in there, is it? [MUSIC PLAYING] - They got married in 1999. It was probably one of the most stravagant weddings we've ever been to.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

“- Melanie on her wedding day looked absolutely gorgeous and jealous.”

You know, just perfect. - Both Bill and Melanie seemed like they couldn't have been happy. [MUSIC PLAYING] - He was marrying a girl that he absolutely loved in a way that maybe he hadn't loved anybody before.

- Bill, keep the journey going. This is the last time Bill's gonna have you ever in. [LAUGHTER] - Bill McGuire got a $65,000 a year job with the New Jersey Institute of Technology.

- Bill and Melanie settled into a rented town house in Woodbridge, New Jersey. - Woodbridge is a sprawling, densely populated township on the suburban end of New Jersey's industrial flatlands. [MUSIC PLAYING]

If you're going down I-95, you're taking eggs at 11 to get off to Woodbridge. - We were both happy, new parents, and then things changed drastically. - He had a dual personality.

He could be very likable.

“And then on the other hand, he'd be very calculating,”

manipulate you.

- And he had always had issues with gambling.

- And he would go through periods where he would go down at Atlantic City a lot. - There were times that he would just take off to AC and gamble and he wouldn't hear from him wouldn't know what was going on.

- He found to, could make some money gambling. [MUSIC PLAYING] There were good times for that, and there were bad times. And there were a couple of times that put my foot down, and I said, that's it.

No more. So then he would get involved in the stock market. He wanted what he wanted, and he couldn't get it fast enough. And with that came frustration and eventually that frustration became directed at me.

There was one particular argument over the phone where he had gotten stopped for a traffic ticket. He had an absolutely atrocious driving record. So I started to argue back, and the next thing coming out of his mouth is, when I get home,

I'm going to kill you, I'm going to smash your face. And it's very difficult for me to think back on it because I actually drove off in the middle of the night. And I had left and I should stay gone. Why did you stay?

I wasn't strong enough to leave. Did you love him? I did. I did, and even though at this point, bearing mind, I'm having an affair.

What appealed to you about Brad Miller? He was just very, very tender. I really tried to fight him, but I couldn't fight him. Life of the McGuire is getting a little more complicated, and then one night, it all erupts.

Bill was probably the most street-wise person I've ever known.

And I can tell you he never saw it coming.

Melanie is loving, caring, funny, considerate. We just clicked right away to the point that I asked her to be in my wedding when I got married. Love is always patient and kind. It is never jealous.

Love is never boastful or conceited and is not resentful. Love takes no pleasure and other people's sins, but delights in the truth. In June 2001, the McGuire is already married for a few years. And even though there was some friction in the marriage,

Melanie McGuire decided to have another child. Little does her husband know just how ill-timed this pregnancy is not only is Melanie about to have their second child, she's also having an affair.

and Melanie was working as one of his nurses. He was so kind.

“I'd come back to my desk after a long meeting with a patient,”

and there'd be lunch sitting on my desk waiting for me.

You know, there was always a little bit of flirtation,

banter back and forth. Melanie was about 38 weeks pregnant and things changed between her and Dr. Miller. I was about to go out on maternity leave, and I was sitting actually in his office at his desk.

I just mentioned I have a pinch nerve and in my neck. And he just, he put his hands on my shoulders and started to rub my back. I tried to really try to fight it because this was not going to be good. This was not going to be good for anybody,

but I couldn't fight it. After Melanie came back from maternity leave, she and Dr. Miller started a full blown affair, and it seemed like they were fully in luck with each other, although they were both married with young children.

Shortly after my second son was born, that's when things began to, the final dissent downhill, if you will. Melanie and Bill moved to the Woodbridge apartment, but this is a town home.

They don't own it, they're renting it. He was constantly looking, looking at homes. He wanted to end up buying a house before he turned 40. He did want to move down here to Virginia Beach. We took pictures of houses in our neighborhood,

but Melanie was wood not here of it. They ended up putting a really sizeable deposit down a very nice home in New Jersey. As a very nice house, it had quite a bit of land.

It was a half a million dollar home.

It was very contradictory. She's becoming closer to Dr. Miller, but she's going along with Bill's idea of buying a house. The marriage wasn't going well at all.

“So why were you buying this half a million dollar house together then?”

The idea for me was we had a chunk of money cash that we were putting down on this house. In the past, we'd come to points where we had been in similar situations, and he would ultimately something would happen and he would go and gamble the money away.

I figured this at least was an investment. On April 28th, they're due to clothes on the house at 2 o'clock in the afternoon and she's in constant touch with Dr. Miller who's pleading with her not to buy the house. She wants to be with Melanie and he sees a future life with her.

And Melanie told him that, you know, not to worry about it. It's going to be okay. I'll take care of it. After they close on the house, they go back to their rented town house. Bill is so excited. He calls John Rice.

John said that he'd be well and never been happier.

The last person Melanie speaks to that night, his doctor Miller. She tells him, look, we've closed on the house. Bill's had some red wine. He's asleep on the couch, but when he wakes up, we're going to sort this out and I'm going to tell him I want to divorce.

Melanie described the events that would happen later on and as a big fight. Are you in Bill's head a horrible fight? Yes, correct. We fell asleep on the couch woke up early morning hours and was never a bad time for an argument.

We're talking probably three, four o'clock in the morning. And it starts on the house. I settled for that house.

“Tell me, are you talking about you settled for that house?”

It's a half a million dollar house. That's not what I wanted. Melanie says that Bill turned around and said what I really wanted was a house in Virginia for cheaper, but you refuse to let us do that. And so I have to settle. And she says this turns into a very heated argument. From there things became more physical,

how physical and what way? She shoved a dryer sheet in my mouth. He had a thing about dryer sheets. This story that Melanie tells about a fight that seems to escalate over a dryer sheet is the same story she told us back when we first spoke with her. We're still arguing and there's the laundry basket.

And there's dryer sheets hanging out of one of the baby sleeves. He hated the-- he thought it was lazy that I wouldn't stand there and put in the liquid fabric softener. And yeah. And it went out of control. This was the type of mother I was that I would leave this sheet in there for my baby to possibly choke on before I know it. I'm against the wall and the dryer sheet is being shoved into my

Yeah. Open hand because he probably would have broken my cheek if it had been a closed fist. I looked down and there's my two-year-old. I grabbed the baby and went to the bathroom right behind me and shot the door. I just wanted away from him at that point. He said he was leaving and he wasn't coming back and I could tell my children why they didn't

“have a father. Did he say this to you through the bathroom?”

Yeah, through the bathroom do it the entire time. I imagine he was packing things and leaving. He was up and down the stairs a lot but every trip back and forth be grating me. What's the last thing you remember saying to him? Stop. Stop. Melanie said he'd driven off and she presumed he visited Atlantic City. He would have been back.

He would have been back. I knew it. But this isn't just a few days that Bill McWire has gone.

We're talking weeks. What bothered me was that Melanie never reached out and said hey,

Bill's missing. She never reported her husband missing and it's almost 30 days of the fact that we never heard anything from her was deeply suspicious to me. Love is always ready to excuse, to trust, to hope, and to endure whatever comes. Love does not come to an end. This is the word of the Lord. In the early morning hours of April 29th, 2004, Melanie McWire said that she and her husband

Bill had a violent fight and that he left and she never saw him again. Melanie says the next day she got her kids up. She took them to daycare and she started trying to figure out how she was going to move on with her life without Bill. And during this the next day, the day after that, the day after that, you didn't hear anything from him. Did you try calling him directly? No, because this is what used to happen when we fought.

You know, I'd call whether it was to tell him off or to try to apologize or what we just end up getting back into it again. I'm done now. I'm done. She retains a divorce attorney and at this point she does tell the divorce attorney that she has not seen her husband in a few days and according to Melanie, the attorney advised her not to file a missing person's report. My heart broke from her. She didn't deserve, nobody deserves that, but I told her that, you know,

she needed to think about herself right now. She needs a protector herself.

“I called a business associate of mine who wasn't attorneys. She said you need to get a restraining”

water. State your full name. Melanie Lynn McGuire. She had to go in front of a judge and give sworn statement about the incident that happened. Tell me what happened that brought you to court today for temporary

straining order. My husband and I enclosed on our first house on Wednesday.

That should be a positive mention. Yeah, it should. He's been behaving really erratically. Tomorrow you're safe here. Don't worry. Melanie explained to the judge how bill had been violent with her. Did he hate me? No, not until, well, I don't mean to say like I had absolutely no part in this. I said some nice things and slept me. As part of the questions, Melanie was asked by the judge if she owned any firearms. Do you know if there's any

weapons? It's not to my knowledge. This is a sketch of the body that washed ashore near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel this month. We're hoping maybe this will give us an edge and maybe identify him sooner. About a month ago, it's by between the time that bill disappears and when Sue Rice identifies Bill McGuire after seeing the sketch on local TV. The next thing police have to

do is notify Melanie McGuire of the death of her husband. Melanie was asked to come down to the police station. The officer came out and he says the sheriff's been William McGuire. And I said yes and I said I just already tell you, man, the William is deceased. And I just, I just burst into tears.

“But there's one thing she never asked, how was Bill McGuire murdered?”

They did not tell her how and the condition in which he was found.

That would be one of the first questions that I would ask.

The next step was that the Virginia police wanted to speak with Melanie. Melanie agrees but she brings her divorce attorney with her and another criminal attorney in that practice. Conducting an interview with the victim's wife with two attorneys present is highly unusual.

she made expressions like she was crying but she never had a tear in her eye.

“I asked her if she had any luggage and she informed us that they didn't have any matching luggage.”

The next day Melanie told the detective she suddenly remembered that the McGuire did own a matching set of designer luggage. I showed her a petro of one of the pieces of luggage that we recovered in the bay and she identified that as belonging to them. They asked what kind of person Bill was and she said he was the kind of person that had an act for pissing people off. She asked us, where did we find her husband's vehicle at?

I told her at that point we hadn't found her husband's vehicle and she said that how a good place to look would be a lanic city new jersey. She also informed us that her husband had a

“gambling problem. Did he get involved with the wrong people? That's what I would have to believe”

that he had gotten himself into something and Bill always thought he could handle everything.

He was always into some kind of deal so I think maybe this deal was his last deal. After the interview was done that evening. We also conducted a search at their old apartment building. The apartment was the empty she had already moved out. They asked about Bill's possessions in his clothes. We discovered that the McGuire had already given all of her husband's belongings away. Virginia Beach detectives find out that Melanie McGuire had given most of

Bill's belongings away to a friend's cousin and they wanted to track that man down. Eventually they

didn't find out that most of Bill's clothing was still in black trash bags, much like the bags that contained Bill McGuire's body parts. The garbage bag by sight looked identical. Things are starting to make sense with the detectives. There's black trash bags and there was also the hospital blanket that the head was wrapped into and they're thinking well Melanie McGuire is a nurse. That's kind of an order coincidence. At Melanie's suggestion detectives start to search

at Atlantic City for Bill's car and no one behold that's exactly where they find it. Their Atlantic City forensic unit processed Mr. McGuire's vehicle. They took photos, they fingerprinted, they vacuum clean the floorboards. The body was released too Melanie on a Tuesday immediately. She had them cremated and the funeral lasted all the 10 to 15 minutes at the most.

She called the following evening after the funeral and at that point I just kind of blasted her. I just told her I said Melanie, Bill deserves so much more and Mel just said, well I'm a single mom now and now I've just got to get on with my life. I said well no, the next thing is we've got to

“figure out who did this to him and after I got off the phone I remember hanging it up and I said John she”

did it, she did it. Everything pointed to Melanie McGuire. Through wire tapping her phones the police discovered the relationship that she was having with Dr. Miller. It's your recommo him because it provides a motive. What's the last thing you remember saying to him? Stop. People like to believe that someone who is capable of committing this type of murder. The keys to putting up his body and blowing it into the chesapeake bay that the person who did that

would look like a monster, but sometimes killers look just like Melanie McGuire. The sports or investigation is conducted. The lack of evidence is resounding. The evidence in this case points to a well organized, meticulously planned execution of a murder. Computer searches that said how to murder someone,

be an evil genius and an idiot at the same time. I believe that Melanie was

“promptly connected. What do you think, killed your husband?”

Melanie McGuire, once a married mother to two little boys and a fertility nurse, is today a 47-year-old inmate at the Edna Man Correctional Facility in Clinton, New Jersey. In here, guilt and innocence is irrelevant in day to day life. I have six numbers in a letter after my name. The same as the woman on one side of me and the same as the woman on the other side of me. After Virginia Beach exhausted their investigation, they realized all signs pointed north to New Jersey.

My name is Patty Precioso. I was the lead investigator in the Melanie McGuire

investigation and prosecution. Patty Precioso was a very driven and highly successful assistant to the general in New Jersey. You let the evidence guide you and you follow it

“until it's clear what happened. She was extremely competent and it was obvious.”

The task force had locally steep police, the attorney general's office. They decided to treat this case with top priority. It was clear that he had been shot and trying to find out if any of the people close to Bill on the gun was a top priority. The detectives don't find any record of Melanie by a gun in New Jersey so they decided to check Pennsylvania. They knew the Pennsylvania was close and a lot of people will go to Pennsylvania

for firearms because gun laws are more relaxed and there's less of a waiting period so you can go in and essentially walk out the same day with a firearm. It turned out that when the record check was done with Pennsylvania, a record came back that Melanie McGuire had purchased a gun.

“I remember playing this day when she came in because not many women come into the shop.”

She filled the forms out and then when she rode down her occupation and she was embarrassed that stuck in my mind because like as that was the first time I ever sold a gun to a nearest. Melanie bought a tourist 38 special and she bought watercolor bullets and that gun was purchased just two days before Melanie McGuire said her husband went missing.

And remember early on Virginia detectives talked to Melanie and she never mentioned anything to them

about buying a gun. I had informed my attorneys of the purchase of the gun and they said well you know if they ask don't why and but don't offer any information. They never asked about a gun. Melanie bought the gun because Bill wanted her to buy the gun. She could get it he wanted it what he wanted he got. Because Bill McGuire had a felony conviction stemming from his horrendous driving record he was barred from purchasing firearms. You say your husband asked you to purchase the gun

but you purchased a gun just two days before your husband went missing. Of course it's a coincidence however he was on me for a while about that, about trying to get that and if something was happening if he was in some sort of trouble that may very well have been. The reason why he was so intent on not getting it. Once the police really honed in on Melanie they began wire tapping her phones. A little mistake.

The surveillance was so intense that over a 40 day period they recorded 500 hours of her phone calls. Every time you get your head back so quarter and then hand reach them from down the graves. One of those calls are very cryptic. Hey, how you doing? I spoke to what his name about shipping. I didn't want to say name. You understand what I'm saying? Yep. She used a phrase a lot of being cut off at the knees. At least be with a lawyer ahead of time

I might cut it off at the knees. That was the biggest date of the day. It doesn't matter what it looks like. She was a little salty. That was sort of personality. She was a Jersey girl. A lot of them were to a boyfriend, Dr. Bradney Miller. It was very clear right from the beginning that the relationship with Dr. Miller was different. There was a change in her voice. It was a softer tone.

It's your recon moment when they realize that she's having an affair because it provides motive.

So one night when Dr. Miller was leaving work, he was going to his car.

The detectives came out to confront him. Dr. Miller was adamant that he had nothing to do with any crime and he didn't know anything about this. And so I think that police said, well, prove it. You know, if you're willing to wear a wire, we'll believe you. It is now 230 p.m. May 31st, 2005, Brad Miller making an outgoing call to no need, McWyer. But they're, you know, they just don't. And they want you to break.

You know, if you want to assist together, I got an order thing out.

“Before this goes any further. What do you mean you have to do that way, McWyer?”

I mean, there's no one to see or see between us. I don't think I can take that. You're swearing up to us. Yeah. And your children's lives.

I'm just going to buy you. And those intercepted phone calls and other friends she was speaking to was Jim Finn. Melanie met Jim Finn in nursing school and Jim admittedly had a crush on Melanie.

But once she left nursing school, she'd never talk to him again.

You know, that was it until February 2004, and she suddenly got in touch with him again. When she needed something, he was someone that, you know, she, you know, she could manipulate. And she knew he was a lover of guns. The police also approach Jim Finn because they find that before Bill disappeared. She's been talking to him about the firearms.

She said to him, "Hey, I need to talk to you. There's some weird stuff going on here and Bill is acting weird." Jim, who really still holds a torch for Melanie, and Melanie knows that,

“says, "Well, maybe you should get a gun to defend yourself."”

Investigators pick up Jim Finn, who also allows them to record his conversations with Melanie. And once they hear what's on those calls, they're satisfied with Finn new nothing about the murder. At the time the detective spoke to Jim Finn, he had no idea that Melanie McGuire had purchased a gun.

He was surprised. Is there anything else you don't know? Like what? Like a killer. Did you? No.

Did you think you were asking?

Melanie never wavers on whether it's not she was involved.

It is always a hard no. I'm going to tell me the truth. Like, Charlie, you [bleep] My good son. You're my son.

She was under my microscope. Everything she did was being watched.

“Everything she said was being listened to.”

Melanie does something that most people would find a little suspicious. Investigators start looking at her easy past records. They notice trips to Atlantic City. She knew that Bill McGuire's car was in Atlantic City because she put it there that requires two drivers.

So that means someone helped her. What investigators find in Atlantic City has them wondering, "Did Melanie have an accomplice?" And if so, who was it? FX presents the shards.

Los Angeles, 1981. We're going to roll the school. Don't we already. It was supposed to be the bestier fair lives. Oh, stop someone for a drink right now.

Until their friends started going missing. There's some thing going on. From executive producer Ryan Murphy and based on the best selling thriller by Grant Easton Ellis, House terrifying.

FX is the shards. Now streaming. On who though. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville.

A battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. The developers with right wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is our town. A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site.

Of a social experiment and fights back. Guess she didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now. Did you? Listen to our town on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The next set of clues in the mystery of who killed Bill McGuire leads investigators to a 170-mile stretch of toll road.

With Melanie now the prime suspect detectives start pulling her records.

“They try to track her movements in the days around her husband's disappearance.”

And one of those is her easy past statement. So when investigators start looking at her easy past records, they notice that there were charges for two trips to Atlantic City. On April 30, 2004, just two days after the fight Melanie said that she and Bill had. Melanie does something that is very odd and most people would find a little suspicious.

I'm starting to become more actively angry at him. And I'm thinking, "That's son of a bitch. I know where he is." According to Melanie she decides that he's probably in Atlantic City, gambling, so she's going to drive down there and she's going to look for his car. Absolutely not rational, but get in the car and go down there.

“And I'm driving down and I take the first pass on this highway and I see a dark sedan.”

There's no way. There's no way. And we're going to be home. There it is. Once Melanie spots Bill's car from the highway, she decides she's going to move his car. Melanie says in the past, "When they're angry at each other, it's a way of messing with each other, I guess you could say." Pull off onto a little side street and I parked my car.

I was like, "Mission impossible. Scooted up to the car, got in, started and drove away." And where did you put it? What I believed to be the flamingo hotel. What Melanie said was, "I was going to move his car to the serious part of town, the most annoying for him to find." That just didn't make any sense that he was physically abusive to her.

But then she goes to mess with a car with a guy that she claims she doesn't want to be around. It sounds beyond ridiculous sitting here saying. And I acknowledge that. I can't, you know, it's the truth.

It's an incredible story. Meaning it's just not...

We believe she was planting his car in Atlantic City. She was trying to create an illusion that Bill Maguire was still alive. That requires two drivers. So certainly that means someone helped her. Someone had her pathfinder and she was driving Bill Maguire's car.

They put the car that flamingo hotel and then she went home with the person driving her car. And investigators thought they'd struck Peter when they discovered that hotels parking lot had surveillance cameras. In truth, of course, the footage did not capture who the driver was. The surveillance video from the flamingo hotel actually showed the victims vehicle being pulled into a parking space. Because of the darkness and the glare and the background lights, you could not actually see the person that was occupying the vehicle.

There was another inexplicable road trip this time to Delaware five days after her husband went missing. She had shared with Dr. Miller that in the early morning hours of May 4th, she was actually furniture shopping. Investigators think that this Delaware furniture trip is really just a ruse. That same road would have taken her to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. Normally someone would take the New Jersey Turnpike to go over the Delaware Memorial Bridge, picking up Ruth 13,

which runs south to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and Tunnel. Patty Precioso says that Melanie actually left the night before from New Jersey drove Bill's remains to Virginia. We believe that that was when she took the suitcases with Bill's remains and got rid of them in the Chesapeake Bay.

And the first suitcases turned up the very next day.

But of course, Melanie thinks this theory is preposterous. Virginia Beach is another 450 miles from Delaware. So I mean, you're talking about hours and there just isn't enough time.

“And why would she drive when we down to Chesapeake with the body points in the car?”

Thinking I'm not going to get stopped, I'm not going to break down. What a chance that is. You can't stop on a bridge and open a window and throw three suitcases out. Maybe if it was one of these pieces of circumstantial evidence, for which you might have a reasonable explanation for one or two.

Yeah, I believe it's going to cost you a lot of money.

“It's a mountain and it's a lot of coincidences and that's absolutely.”

But coincidences don't always make for the best evidence.

And detectives were still searching for any physical evidence that would link Melanie McGuire to her husband Bill's murder. Where's the proof? Where is the forensic evidence? The task force is convinced that Bill was murdered and dismembered at their townhouse in Woodbridge. So they concentrate on that. They went back four to five times to search for any evidence.

They did everything that you would typically think of right. They brought an aluminum all and pulled down parts of the walls. They pulled up the piping, pulling floorboards up. They really turned this place upside down a number of times. They tried to find bullets, phrases of blood and nothing ever came up.

Couldn't find any forensic evidence whatsoever to establish that this was a crime scene. I don't know how you would dismember a body and effectively clean that up. Despite that glaring lack of physical evidence, investigators still believe the circumstantial evidence is enough and they arrest Melanie McGuire. So surreal.

“Day like any other, getting the kids off to take care.”

We surveilled her to the school waiting for her to drop her children off. Walking out of the building, I'm not even off the curb. Melanie McGuire, can you come with us please? I know.

Two years and ten months after the first suitcase washed up,

the trial against Melanie McGuire commences in middle-sex County. And it was a sensation. The evidence will show that while Bill was engrossed in purchasing the house, the defendant was very busy planning his death. There was no proof that Melanie McGuire murdered her husband.

Prosecutor said, "Eat a Melanie McGuire's guilty." Or she's the unluckyest woman in the world. A Monday, March 5th, 2007. Two years and ten months after the first suitcase washed up in the Chesapeake Bay, Melanie McGuire went on trial for husbands first to remurder.

This was a case that had garnered a lot of media attention in New Jersey. And it had all the elements that it was going to be a salacious trial. The judge let us know that the trial was going to be televised. Let's bring a couple of experts into the conversation to help us sort through yesterday's evidence.

It made people act differently.

“I think Melanie loved the idea that she was a central retention.”

She seemed very relaxed, much more relaxed than I would have done. It was a double-edged sword. Because if she sat there, you know, more stoic, she looked nasty or she looked mean. And then when she was being more upbeat and talking to people,

"Oh, well, she's joking around on her own trial." There was nothing she could do that wasn't going to be criticized. By the time Melanie McGuire gets to trial, she's hired Steven Toronto and Joe Takapena to represent her. Joe Takapena was a high profile celebrity attorney.

Joe Takapena. Joe Takapena. Joining me now, Joe Takapena, he's the attorney for Alex Rodriguez. He feels just as comfortable in front of a TV camera as a parent of a jury, a sports-earth investigation.

It was conducted in the lack of evidence he's resound. The evidence, in this case, points to a well-organized, meticulously planned execution of a murder. Is that a fair description of you? Were you somebody if you were going to do something,

you were going to do it all the way? No. And I would counter that argument with, if that's the case, then I would have been sure to not include blankets that could be traced to me,

my own luggage. I don't get to be an evil genius in an idiot at the same time. I'm not going to be able to tell you where William Bower's killed. How he was killed? When he was killed?

The events were really trying to pay to the jury that Bill was a major gambler, and he may have owed thousands of thousands of dollars. He was a big gambler because he gambled beyond his needs. When you have money on the street and you're behind,

you're not making payments, you know what happens? You get shot here, and you get shot here. As prosecutors start laying out what they believe Melanie McGuire did to build. It all starts with something they found in his car

after it was processed in Atlantic City.

But when investigators first recovered Bill's car,

and also a syringe in it.

States, it's a bit 983. Do you recognize that?

“Yes, that's the viral we dispense to liquid in.”

The chlorohydrate is, if you ever heard of the terms slip somebody a meki, it's the meki. It's what it is, it's almost like a knockout track. They do a lot of investigating on this chlorohydrate. And eventually they find out that it was purchased

the morning that Bill disappeared. Somebody dropped off this prescription for chlorohydrate at the Walgreens Pharmacy, which is just down the road from where Melanie's children went to preschool. But the prescription had was that of Dr. Brad Miller,

who was Melanie's boss.

The white boat goes off on their thinking right away.

Clearly, Melanie had access to this prescription pad. She used it. She filled it. Chlorohydrate was necessary for this defendant to have control. And even more importantly, it was necessary to her that Bill McGuire had no control.

Dr. Miller looked at the prescription, and he said,

“"That's not my signature, and it appears to be Melanie McGuire's handwriting."”

Prosecutors also focused on what they said Melanie was doing in the days before her husband's disappearance. For that, they looked at the McGuire's home computer. We had it forensically examined. And it really was just astounding seeing

what the internet searches for. Can you describe the searches that you recovered?

How to purchase guns illegally?

How to commit murder? And undetectable poisons was searched. But it didn't look good. It looked like someone was searching how to sedate someone or how to kill them.

I'm a nurse. I was a nurse. And I don't need to look up things like that. If I wanted to look for something like that, I have a PDR physician's desk reference. I have a book that I can look in

that doesn't leave an internet history.

“But both Melanie and Bill use this computer.”

So it's really hard to figure out who was searching these things. No, you have absolutely no idea of knowing who actually conducted the searches that you talked about, correct?

No, I don't. One of the things we can say for certain is that your husband didn't commit suicide. He didn't shoot himself. He was able to...

Carvison body up. And yet there's a suggestion from the defense that some of the online searches were things that he wasn't actually not that you were doing. It wasn't me.

Although investigators found no physical evidence in the McGuire's home, they did find something significant in Bill McGuire's car. After Bill's car was recovered

in Atlantic City, our criminalist was able to locate several pieces of small flesh. These pieces of flesh are an artifact of Bill McGuire's body being disarticulated. The phrase was used.

The human saw a dust. A human saw dust as a term that did not exist until this case as I understand it. I found particles that, to me, look like it could be possibly human tissue.

DNA results indicated that the flesh belonged to Bill McGuire. What this really was was a few pieces of microscopic skin cells that were a little bit deeper than the skin we passively shed. Could those tissues... The tissue that you looked at be shed

from a live human being? It cannot be shared from a live human being. It's not a typical shedding process at all. Their theory was that this nurse who was kind of so meticulous had somehow just forgotten to wipe the bottom of his shoes

that she accidentally tracked these human saw dust particles of Bill's body from the house of the car. Thank you, Your Honor. There were 81 witnesses in seven weeks. Good morning, Dr. Miller.

Good morning. Dr. Miller was the testimony that everyone was most anticipating. He was going to be the big star of the trial. I was having an affair, and my whole life turned upside down. Were you in love with the defendant?

ESPN Fantasy Football is now the official fantasy game of the NFL.

with a new app and enhancements, including NFL highlights in the fantasy app.

“So you can track your team live every week.”

Get expert insights from our fantasy analysts and try our new knockouties, or the lowest scoring team is eliminated each week until one team remains. Download the ESPN Fantasy app for free today and sign up to play the number one fantasy game.

Get your tickets now for the Dark Stars. It's no surprise how fast civilization can disappear. Not there, it's nowhere to be killed. Jacob awardee. They're people out there.

They need our help. Josh Bulland. Shoot first. Didn't acquire afterwards. Mark recalling.

Okay, tough guy. And guy peers. Arm up. The Dark Stars, directed by Ridley Scott, and theater is August 28.

Get tickets now, ready to do our 17-not-a-middle without parents. Do you want to call your next witness? Yes, you're on her. The state calls Dr. Bradley Miller. The most anticipated day of this trial

is when the man who melanin McGuire had a three-year affair with Dr. Bradley Miller took the stand. Everybody knew that that was the prosecution's star witness and the cult was filled. And when you saw him, what was your feeling?

How could you? How could you? Dr. Miller was in a very difficult spot. He and his family had gone through a very difficult time. And it was just made clear to him.

Just take a deep breath and make sure you tell the absolute truth.

“Can you describe to the jury what was your relationship with her?”

We were together. She was an excellent nurse. She took very good care of the patients. They all loved her. So did there come a time when your relationship

with Ms. McGuire got more intimate? Yes, it did. It was towards the end of her second pregnancy issues about 38 weeks pregnant. And before she went on maternity leave,

we had oral sex now. So not proud of that. It has to be pretty hard to hear it come out in court. Hard for me to hear it, hard for me to think, "Oh, my God. My parents are hearing this.

My 84-year-old grandmother is hearing this." Were you in love with the defendant? Yes, I was.

“Had the two of you discussed future plans together?”

Yes, we were hoping to be together in the future. We had to make a difference. With Dr. Miller on this stand, prosecutors were able to score some points

because there were certain things that Melanie never told Dr. Miller.

Did the defendant ever tell you that she purchased a gun? No, I mean, I had no knowledge of her purchased a gun. Did the defendant ever tell you that she went to Atlantic City and parked her husband bills car at the Flamingo Hotel? No, she did not.

Did there come a time when the defendant shared with you that she had done that? Yes, and I asked her, "Well, why didn't you tell me this sooner?" And she told me that she didn't want me to be upset that she's going back to Find Bill to bring him back and rekindle a relationship.

We looked very closely at Dr. Miller. There was no evidence connecting him with this crime. This isn't reference to consensual recordings between Brad Miller and Melanie McWyer. You agreed to consensually record a conversation with the defendant.

Yes, it did. Prosecutors really wanted the jury to hear those intercepted calls so they could get a sense that maybe her desire to be with him was the motive for the murder. During the calls, Dr. Miller spoke about their future

together, probably prompted by detectives. After all. Of course, she did. She did. We're having fun here. We're still being so good there.

The understanding between us had always been that the children came first

and he starts talking about divorce in a future and moving forward and I even say on the tape, "Why are you talking like this all of a sudden?" The defendant was also able to score some points with those recordings, which called into question Dr. Miller's character. At the time of those secret recordings,

he was still having an intimate relationship with her. After you tape recorder her sir, you then had additional information. Do you tell her that by the way that he's had tape recorder? No, he did not.

and was a very big turn-off to the jury. Have you ever had contact, again, with Dr. Brad Miller? No. No. After the day he testified, I haven't laid eyes on his face.

No desire. It's tough. That was a tough betrayal to swallow.

“What matters is whether the state and the burden is on me and I welcome it,”

whether the state has proved each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt. When you combine the computer searches, the prescription for chloral hydrate on prescription pads that the defendant used and then you have the victim found inside their matching luggage. The bullet's consistent with the gun that she purchased.

There's no question in my mind that she did it. I also don't believe that she acted a lot. Now we can help her. Patty Perciosa told the jury that there was a very, very good chance that Melanie had an accomplice.

Although he was never charged investigators took a hard look

at Melanie's stepfather, Michael Caparrero. The prosecutor needed somebody, so they focused it on me. Anything they wanted, we gave them. We gave them DNA, we gave them hair samples. I had nothing to do with anything involving that crime.

You don't need the precise one. You don't need the precise wear. You don't have the fine that she pulled the trigger. You don't have the fine that she had hands on physically in regards to his death. Well, boy, that leaves a lot of speculation out there for his jury.

You can't guess someone in too prison for her life. The jury goes into deliberation and Melanie and our family are waiting on pins and needles. I was very concerned.

“I think we all as people like to believe that if someone was capable of committing”

this type of murder, that the person who did that would look like a monster. But sometimes killers look just like Melanie McGuire. The day the verdict was read, the atmosphere in the courtroom was just electric. It has the jury reached the verdict in this case.

Yes, John. How do you find us at the County of the indictment charging Melanie McGuire with a murder, a William McGuire? Guilty. I just remember seeing her collapse.

I remember grabbing John's arm and I remember feeling my legs just kind of go out from under me. She's alternating between, I didn't do it. I didn't do it and my babies. My babies.

And refer to her to children. The court finds that the maximum sentence should be imposed.

“Melanie is sentenced to life in prison plus five years.”

We're going to fight on. This is a definite setback. This is around one. This is not the end of the story. This is episode 14.

Direct appeal. I see a Maui from Rehebel Dought. And thanks to these two professors, Turnpodcasters, it turns out. It isn't the end of the story.

I can anyone be convicted of that amount of Rehebel Dought. It's done it. After sentencing, Melanie McGuire was taken to the Edmund Mann Correctional Facility in Clinton, New Jersey.

Her new home would be a six by nine foot cell. Just beginning for us now. We'll never give up.

We will never ever give up for her until the truth comes out.

On Direct appeal, we examine the murder conviction of Melanie McGuire. Captain, please pay call from Melanie McGuire. And in May, Edmund Mann, Correctional Facility. All right, obviously Melanie's been convicted. She's exhausted all of her appeals at this point.

So how did the idea for this podcast come about? Melanie McGuire was looking to speak with someone about her story because she had done really poorly in the court system and I think she was frustrated. And after visiting with her the first time,

I was like, this is a story. This is important. I expected the worst and what I got was just one step shot. They give the third at Pearl Elementary at the Ender Age of 101.

It was very difficult. It was reliving it.

This was the first time somebody was basically saying,

Would you say, "Let's get to the juicy part."

“I want to know, do you think she is innocent or guilty?”

In the end, I believe that Melanie McGuire was wrongfully convicted. So you believe an innocent woman is behind bars right now. Absolutely. I believe this is a case of a wrongful conviction. So let's talk about some of the questions you raise in your podcast

and let's begin with the gun.

The gun to this day has never been recovered.

One of the key witnesses for the prosecution was the forensic ballistic expert. These are two discharge bullets. The referred to is a 38 caliber lead-watt-cutter bullet. Is it possible that the gun Melanie bought is not actually the murder weapon? I think it's probable no one plugged serial number of my gun

into a website to find out what the specifications were. Apparently each gun makes something called lands and grooves. Lands and grooves are rifling characteristics that are a machine pressed into the barrel of a gun. And when the bullet passes through the barrel,

the same number of lands and grooves are going to be imprinted, essentially onto that bullet. There were five lands and grooves that my weapon was said to have made based on the company's website. The bullets that came out of my husband had six lands and grooves.

It was a mistake on a gun manufacturer's website. We were not gathering evidence from a gun manufacturer's website. The evidence that was at trial was from ballistic experts. But the website was updated. After this trial to incorporate the possibility

that five or six had five or six, I thought that was questionable.

“I think it's very questionable that for years historically it says one thing”

and then it's updated right after. Let's talk about the garbage bags. The prosecution had an expert that said that the garbage bag in which Bill's body was found in was consistent with the garbage bags that came from Melanie's apartment.

You can see these lines here. There's a straight line here, this sort of smooth line. There's also two other lines close together and basically the exact same position. This indicates that these two bags were made at the same facility. On the same line with it a very close proximity of time.

He ran tests, but he didn't do all the tests that you actually need to independently say whether these bags matched even his own data shows that they probably weren't the same bags.

There are always other tests that can be done in any analysis.

Based on the testing, we had conducted and the results that I observed. I felt competent at that time to conclude that the bag would produce during the same run.

“They put on a really good show and I think when you have props”

to garbage bags, oh wow, those do look alike. And so what the jurors are listening to sounds like fact. When in reality, it's just someone's expert opinion. There is something else that's significant that you think the jury should have heard more about.

It was found inside those suitcases. If you look through the lab reports, page upon page upon page, white hair, brown hair, black hair, animal hair. I think that's indicative that there's animal hair where the dismemberment took place of Bill's body.

Are you mentioned that you found some animal hairs? Did you find anything that you considered of evidentual value? No. They looked high and low to connect Melanie to some pet. And once they found that there was no way to connect Melanie to these pet hairs,

it became not of evidentiary value. Why is that? Simply because they don't match your suspects. Those hairs should have been tested because that's a huge question mark. Melanie did not incapacitate should use a saw to dismember her husband,

you know, harder to cut through bone. It is physically exhausting. And also, if the crime scenes didn't happen there, and she's home with her children all night, where is this happening?

There are just too many holes in this story. In this case, with the mountain of evidence against her,

in a very complex plan, I submit to you it's amazing.

We know as much as we do. This was a murder trial. It wasn't a contest to see who could outsmart the investigators and if someone is smart enough to successfully hide a crime scene that they win. Did you find any evidence that exonerates Melanie

that proves her innocence? I wish we did. I had hoped we would. I still think that we might get a tip in that direction. What do you say to the people at home who watch this and say,

Enough pain has already fallen.

Her husband's family, her own sons. There's a murder walking around.

“Even if we discount what's happened to me.”

The killer is out there. And it's not me. She had about as good a counsel as money could buy. She certainly had a fair and impartial jury. The fact that the matter is sometimes the evidence is such that your attorneys

no matter what you can pay them, they simply cannot overcome what you've done. So she can say whatever she wants and she's a liar and she's a killer. Today your poiser young men? They are. Is there anything you want to say to them?

There will always be questions about this case

that we may never have the answers to. Like if Melanie McGuire did kill her husband, why did she drive more than 300 miles to get rid of his remains in the Chesapeake Bay? His friend John Rice has a theory. Bill did want to move down here under Virginia Beach.

After a time he gave up on that idea. So it almost seemed like a vindictive thing on her part to drive him down. Oh, you want to go to Virginia Beach here. Here you go.

“Why was it important for you to tell the story on your podcast?”

A lot of people who are convicted, they'll go through the appeals process, but they won't prevail. If we can investigate this and provide any type of assistance, we're possibly remedying some of the harshest parts of our system. There are times when podcasts and media can shine a light

where what the government did was not right. This is not one of those cases. A 39-year-old man lost his life before he got to see his children grow up. You have two little kids? Yep.

That is the hardest part. Knowing that when I see my children when I hug them goodbye, it could be the last time.

Ultimately, the courts would award custody to build sister Siddila Gosh.

Melanie has had no contact with them. Today, your boys are young men. They are. Is there anything you want to say to them? Make up your own mind.

Don't accept what you're just being told on the surface of dig. What is your level of hope? That one day you might walk out of here. I'm terrified to hope. Because to have it thwarted in here,

it's absolutely so crushing. The film acquired was the father of two small children. He was a brother. He was a friend. And his life got cut short.

“I think build deserves to remember as a fantastic friend.”

A dad who left his voice. He didn't deserve this. Nobody deserves that. No one. Thanks for listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault.

We hope you'll join us Friday night at 9 on ABC for all new broadcast episodes. See you then. In 2023, a source sent me a tip. It tied baseball's biggest star

to a vast illegal sports betting operation. So hey, what's happening? But then someone surprising confessed to me. His best friend. On the TV, the horror and you did have permission to inquire me.

From 30 for 30 podcasts, this is the betrayal of Shoheotani. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. [BLANK_AUDIO]