True Crime Vault: Where Monsters Hide

"Now, well, what do we do to emergency? We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer."

For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved. Until new technology allowed investigators to do, but had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio and 2020. Blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

Step into the 2020 True Crime Vault. Listen to our most gripping stories.

“From the outside, it honestly looks like a dark-handling grettle kind of house.”

"Good dog." "Okay, what do you mean?" "Good dog, friendly." As soon as you walk into the house, the hair stands up on the back of your neck. "It's pretty creepy."

"It really was." "I've come to this remote part of Michigan's Upper Peninsula." "It seems haunting." "But maybe that's because this is where the mystery unfolds." "There's more media attention to our missing person, Chris Regan."

"This is like this is what happened. It's all digital." "It's all digital."

“"And no signs of forced entry or chaos."”

"Absolutely not." "Something happened to him." "I knew that in my heart, and I knew that my gut." "He had another side to him." "So, immediately, this is a lovers triangle."

"How many guys have you actually seen?" "Anxious." "Not a love triangle, but a love one triangle." "Tell me something, you guys." "What happened to Chris Regan?"

"That's the stuff of horror movies." "The Upper Peninsula is kind of its own little world." "The Upper Peninsula is also known as the U.P." "People are Ubers." "Ubers are unique people."

"The Upper Peninsula is separate by the Mac and Owl Bridge." "From Lower Michigan." "It's an absolutely rural forested woodland." "And kind of terrifying in its isolation." "We can get windshield readings 30 below zero in the winter time."

"It looks like the Arctic sometimes." "And you can kind of feel lost." "One town in the Upper Peninsula is the small town of Iron River," "which was named because of the local mining." "I am River. Michigan has population of about 3,000."

"With one stoplight in their town." "My name is Laura Frizzo, and I'm the former police chief of Iron River."

"And also the first female police chief actually to serve in the entire Upper Peninsula."

"It was a lot of double-takes when I first started with some of the old timers who were like what's going on here." "The people of Iron River are really good-hearted people accepting."

“"But I think when someone new comes to the area, they're a little skeptical at first."”

"And they take their time to make sure that you're worthy of being included into their little circle." "One of those outsiders who came to live in Iron River was 51-year-old Chris Reagan." "We had to actually go up and buy him all new clothes as what he called his duper clothes because he had city clothes." "Tario Donald was an old flame of Chris Reagan, and the two had recently rekindled the romance." "He decided that he was going to move to Iron River so that we could be closer together."

"It was a whirlwind."

"I had always so in love with him."

" Christopher and I used to come down out at a blossom trail and walk around the river." "We'd sit listening to the water." "Just enjoy time together." "So in Chris moved to Iron River, he got a job at a manufacturing company called the Oldenburg Group."

Probably one of our best team leaders that we had.

“He was actually holding people accountable.”

Chris was former military and had a reputation as a reliable worker. So it came as a bit of a surprise when he didn't show up for his job. "That was October 14th." "I sent a message to Chris. We haven't heard from you. Everything okay." Chris had missed two days and one of my team leaders came forward and told me, "Lora, just so you know, Chris had applied for another position."

"And he's moving to North Carolina." "If he was doing long hours for a pretty demanding company, then maybe he just said enough of that." "Yeah, after three days, no call, no show is termination." "Remarkably, two whole weeks had gone by and no one had heard from Chris.

That's when Terry decides to go to the police." "By this time, the two had broken up, but they remained close friends and talked regularly." "And I saw this vehicle pull up and parking front of the police department." "And I saw this woman get out of the vehicle and she was chronic." "And she said that her friend was missing."

"I was shaking, I had tears."

“What was that interaction like when you first encountered Terry O'Donnell?”

She was very upset. You know, clearly she knew something wasn't right because she knew him very well. Chief Fresno sends Sergeant Cindy Barrett to investigate. First up, Chris Regan's apartment. Terry O'Donnell's parents are landlords to Chris Regan. So, Terry had access via key from her parents.

"This doesn't look like Chris is a accountant now."

"Oh, just so good that he was always there and everything was always put away."

There was evident that he was in the process of packing up to move to his new job. Terry's packing boxes. And on the bed there was suitcases.

“And there was papers there for his new job.”

"This is just a paperwork that sets the position. It's not even said yet." "It's talented to show up that he was going to resign on the 14. We have the tweezers at the last day of work." So not a guy who's running away. Absolutely not. And no signs of force entry or chaos. Not at all. In fact, he had a list started, you know, things that he wanted to get ready for his move.

"It says she has everything that he needs to do to move, all of which is not." And on the dining table were legal pads to do lists like power companies shut the power up. It really started the bottom. I mean, that something was very, very wrong. "I was a window left open, the window left open." It appeared that he had left the apartment and full intentions of returning.

"Something happened." "I knew that in my heart and I knew that my gut." "And I said, "We're going to go out and we're going to check the car." "And when we're done with that, I will enter Cushing as a missing person in the national database." "From there, they went to the park and ride where Terry had seen Chris's car abandoned for days."

Chris Differers, Hyundai Genesis, his vehicle was there. And that was his baby. He took such a good care of it. And so, it didn't make sense to me that it was at the park and ride. When Sergeant Vera went to take a look at the car, she found, you know, a couple of things in the car, like his knee brace that he should have been wearing.

That knee brace? Yep. You normally wear the knee brace? Yep. And I understand, in the car, there was an intriguing post-it note. Yeah, she found like a post-it note that was flipped upside down in the passenger side. We didn't know at first what was written on it and what it would come to mean later.

Christopher always wrote things down on post-its and the post-it note had directions on it.

This is believed to be the last known video of Chris Reagan.

“He's got on a surveillance camera at a gas station on the afternoon of October 14th, 2014.”

Leading up the investigation into Reagan's disappearance is a new and experienced chief of police, Laura Frisot. She is a leader and a profession in the upper peninsula where there aren't a lot of female leaders. How many people on the force? Four of all time. She truly cared and she truly wanted to solve this. As chief Frisot investigates Chris Reagan's disappearance,

she discovers that he had dated multiple women in his short time and iron river, and some of those relationships overlapped. I dated Chris Reagan back in 2013 from our out May till the end of October for about six months.

He would always send me a text weekly. He was very swath.

Very sweet, charismatic. Just kind of knew how to make you feel good. As far as Terry O'Donnell knew, she thought that she was in an exclusive relationship with Chris, and this behavior came as a real shock to her. I asked him why he was doing that and he said, "Well, you're going to be gone for three weeks. What happens if I get lonely?"

So sadly to say, I broke it off with him. When chief Frisot digs deeper into Chris's life, she discovers another woman he'd been dating. A 33-year-old coworker by the name of Kelly Cochrane. Either one of us were all in. It was never going to be because I was married.

She was an employee at Oldenburg. Chris was actually involved in her hiring.

“Kelly was also new to town, and I think they bonded over that,”

being to city folk in the small town. I would go over to Chris's, and usually cooked, and then we were intimate, and then usually I would leave. That posted note found inside Chris's car at this parking ride. Couldn't lead to any one of his girlfriend's homes. Turns out, it was Kelly Cochrane's.

She Frisot told me to go and interview Kelly Cochrane to see if she had any information asked to the whereabouts of Chris Reagan. And, man, chemo. Besides, there are you Kelly Cochrane's husband, and he said yes. I said, "This is Kelly home."

And he says, "Bill, Kelly's not home. I don't know where she is, and shortly thereafter, this woman comes out." I asked her if she was Kelly. She said, "Yes, I'm Kelly." It's not unusual for a husband or a wife to say no he's not here. That is very common.

I was actually surprised to him. So I says, "Your husband aware of your relationship with Chris Reagan." She says, "Oh, yes, he's fine with it." Jason Cochrane is standing there, just stoically, not saying a word, just like a statue. No emotion. She says, "I figured Chris left for North Carolina without saying goodbye to me."

So I told her, I said, "We were wondering whether cars at the park and ride." And Kelly Cochrane said, "In the past tense, he loved it." And Sergeant Bear called me, after words and said, "I found that to be very chilling in awe that she said past tense, he loved that car." Because of her tiny department's limited resources, she further asked for help from the Michigan State Police.

They sent two detectives who questioned the conference the very next day. And I'll tell you guys in advance, I see a therapist behind anxiety. I'm listening to Jason Cochrane's interview with the detective key immediately. I mean, there's no questions asked, even yet. And he's like, "I just want to let you know that I haven't been doing too well lately."

I'm actually an institutionalized little over a month ago. So, okay, you know, I seem like I've been bombed up. I can see a therapist for it. Well, I was the close friend. That's impressive sense.

“Do you think that's what caused all your issues?”

Huge part of it. Yeah. And you were around knowing that my parents felt the part. So you were very much aware of what Kelly was doing. I either had to accept that her to let her go, so I decided to do it.

She really wanted us to not be with me, but I was going to let her go.

Kelly, right? Yes, Katie, Katie out of life. When Kelly came in for her interview, the one thing I noticed about her right out of the gate was her ability to control her body language. Tell us, um, everything in all of the world, Chris, they've just got pretty close in the last four months. Okay.

Like a best friend. Did you have an intimate relationship with him? Okay. And obviously her husband knows that he knows. He knows.

She knew. She was leaning forward. She had eye contact. And her voice was calm and collected a little time.

One of the last time you saw Chris,

I would say between the 12th and the 15th for the last time I saw him. Or did you see him?

“Um, I see him at his apartment, I think.”

What? Jason upset a whole day. No. Kelly, should we be looking at Jason? I don't see why you live.

Well, I'll tell you why. Because husbands get jealous. I understand it. What do you think of her, Chris? I think he could hurt him.

I would like to know what happened as well. But that's why I'm willing to be here. I'm a good person. Despite the love triangle between the Cochrane and Chris Regan, there's still no evidence of any crime being committed.

But she frizzos still suspect that Regan's disappearance might be the result of foul play. Frizzo and her small team continue pressing on. And they quickly learned that Kelly also had multiple relationships, including a gentleman who also worked at the old number group. Kelly was dating another employee there by the name of Eric Erickson. Eric's supervisor was Chris Regan.

“So now, police are wondering could Eric have been upset enough to have harmed Chris?”

How do you feel about taking a polygraph test to prove that he didn't have any idea what Chris had prepared? As Chief Laura Frizzo is investigating the disappearance of Chris Regan, she discovers evidence of not a love triangle. But a love quadrangle, even though Kelly Cochrane is married to Jason, she is having an affair with Chris and another co-worker, Eric Erickson.

Eric, Erickson was hired as military assembler. Eric was a good employee, he showed up, he was dependable. Eric was a suspect, could he have done something to Chris because he was angry and jealous and outraged. So it was important to eliminate him. There was a point with the participation of the Michigan State Police detectives,

where I think they wanted to take more of a lead in the case and handle it.

There was no warning, it was just basically like, "Hey Laura said, they want to talk to you."

And the next thing I know, they're coming at night, pulling up in my driveway, telling me getting the car. Thanks for coming. We just got some work. Yeah. Yeah.

She wanted me to go over there a couple of times.

“Like, that night, I think for me it was kind of fun.”

You know, I first, whatever, I had moved back here and I didn't know anybody. And having somebody gave me some attention was, kind of, I like this. Right. There's two. I still have the whole text message. I said, yeah, here, take a look at my phone. This is our conversations that we've had.

Sorry. When I looked at his conversations with Kelly, there was a point in time where he got very irritated with her. And it was the week before Chris went missing. There was a time where we went down to the lake and we were going to have just a couple beers.

While your phone was going off, right? And I'm like, you know, somebody's really trying to get old to you. Who is it? And she said that it's Chris, you know. So maybe he was the jealous lover.

Yes. And I did think that it could happen. The next step for Ericsson? A polygraph, or a so-called lie detector test. How would you feel about taking a polygraph test

to prove that you didn't have anything to do with Chris's experience? Yes. I told him how to do that to him. I scheduled a polygraph for him. We went over everything.

Yeah. I told him he's right to the other stand. Also, the door goes clicked in Watson, you know, the officer. And he goes, you passed. And I was like, I did.

So.

I was able to put him to the side

and focus more on the caurins as the suspects. So as you're doing your sort of criminal profiles, what made Jason a potential suspect in your mind? Jason really had motive. You know, he was the husband who has been cheated on.

We're in here, just kind of don't ask you about what's for a little while. The story that I had gotten from Kelly was that they were separated. However, still living under the same roof. What I came to learn about this marriage was that it had been in trouble for a while. Kelly, you know, was living a life of a single person.

She was constantly running around with different men. There were times when she came all about 130, didn't know where she was at. And I didn't really want to know. I hate to say it.

You kind of understand why you're here.

All right. Yeah. Thanks so much. No, I mean, there's somebody that's missing. I'm going to get some on probability to tell us.

As police start going through Jason's text messages, they seem to reveal how Jason really feels about being cheated on. He doesn't seem happy at all texting her. I cannot take it. And you promised me you would stop.

Was that a lie also? There wasn't long before Chris went missing. Jason found himself down by Chris's apartment and telling her, "Don't go to those apartments. Again, you're a married woman." The guy in the cast says, "I was not the only guy trying to date you."

Please don't go back to those apartments. You are married. You're having fun.

“Did she get a confranteal about the time he's sitting on the walk?”

Can you sign for your apartment? Can you imagine that, yeah? What do you think? Can you see my character? Which sounds almost like stalking behavior.

Right. So I'm thinking, "Okay, he's now put himself on position where he's made contact with Chris Reagan that I thought, you know, maybe he's snapped." Things had boiled over and Jason needed to go and get some help. Jason's admission to the mental hospital was two days after Mr. Regan went missing.

Chief Frisot now has some serious suspicion that Jason Cochran's got something to do with Chris Reagan's disappearance. It started to get close to the holidays. Thanksgiving was approaching. And then out of the blue, Chief Frisot gets a phone call.

It takes her by complete surprise. And when I pick up the phone, the voice on the other end said, "Hi, this is Chris Reagan." And I almost dropped the phone and said that. Okay, now where have you been? This episode is sponsored by Better Help.

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“Winter is coming to the upper peninsula and Chris Regan is still missing.”

The investigation into his disappearance looks like it's going cold too. But iron river police chief, Laura Frizzo, remains convinced that Regan was the victim of foul play. You thought maybe he's been murdered. Yeah, I decided that something's wrong. It seemed like everything was a dead end.

I would stop and check with Laura and just ask her how things are going. And then she'd say, "I was thinking about you." Laura was very dedicated to the case. She knew that Chris had sons who wanted closure and she wanted to be able to get that closure for them. I was in the office and I got a phone call.

And when I picked up the phone, the voice on the other end said, "Hi, this is Chris Regan." And I almost dropped the phone because I thought, "Where have you been?" And he said, "Junior, listen to his son." And it was really a sad for me to hear his voice. And it was even harder for me, meeting him in person.

Chris Jr. is on his way to iron river with his brother to clean out their father's apartment.

The first time I went iron river to clean out his apartment and stuff like that was not fun.

I didn't know what to do or where to start. It just was heartbreaking. They were young. They were lost. They didn't know what to do, where to go. She knew that Chris was a veteran and that his military service was something he was really proud of. So she wanted to make sure that his son got his dog tags, which they recovered from his apartment.

“I went to hand him to him and he told me, "I think you should just keep them with you."”

I carried those dog tags in my pocket every day. This is a complicated case and the iron river police department is small just for people. And as a result of that, people offered their help. So you think these profile questions are pretty good? Jim McNeill and Molly Barron worked together as private investigators.

And we got together after being introduced by a high school friend of mine who's like a mutual friend. I feel like it's a tight community where everybody seems to know each other. And especially if you have a missing person, that's concerning to the community. Because of where we're from, we just don't have missing people like that. We're not doing anything when somebody is missing.

It was at this point where the prosecutor was ready to sign the search warrant for the Cochrane residents. So Molly and Jim show up at my office. And I'm like, "Oh, well, as a matter of fact, I said, I'm going to be doing a search warrant there tomorrow." On March 16th, 2015, Chief Frieza goes to the Cochrane's house with the long-awaited search warrant, accompanied by those two private investigators.

The dogs were just going crazy in there, like just barking, barking, barking. Okay, what do they mean? They're not friendly. We were in the home, and Kelly's home is pretty creepy. It really was.

“I think Molly and I brought a lot of experience there to her to assist her with a search warrant.”

I've never worked with a PI like that before.

That was my first experience. This is a little unorthodox. It is, and I was kind of concerned about it when it first happened, because I'm kind of a control freak, and I didn't want anyone messing around, but it actually worked out to our advantage. Hi, Jason.

How are you doing? I'm doing it in our home. One of the first things you want to be very careful of is weapons. Do you have any weapons in the home? I'm not.

I don't know. I've just been waiting for some help for myself over there. I've got a 22 under there. Let's be able to reach right in again. You immediately go to these weapons and secure them.

Frieza, what you want to worth the cure? And they had all kinds of weapons that were like all over the place. But that's not illegal, you know? Jason had a fetish with knives, swords, things like that. And he had a lot of them that were found and collected during the search warrant.

It was the kind of arsenal you see in a movie. He had swords, crossbows.

That was a very eerie feeling.

Don't you want a jacket or something? Typically, you don't allow the residents to stay in the house. They're going to have to leave.

“You guys are going to turn the computer off, are you?”

No, okay. It happened to be one of the coldest mornings of the winter. It was like zero. Yes, usually walk into the home. There's like a punch hole of some sort through the door.

And the door frame was a ride, it was cracked or something. At that point, Laura calls the crime lab. Hey, let's get the crime lab here. And we're standing there for quite a while waiting for that crime lab. So we're just standing there waiting and I looked up.

It's a terrible feeling. Was that what you said? Yeah, it's a pain in it. And something caught me eye and I looked it again. And I kind of stepped the side and looked it again.

The ceiling was white, but there was these certain spots up there.

So I finally said something to gem and then Jim looked up and looked at it.

And immediately it was like, oh.

“To the private investigators, those spots on the ceiling looks suspiciously like painted”

over blood. It's like a splatter pattern. And she said, yes, we've done remodeling and replaced some ceiling tiles that probably were the cast off yesterday. You could have happened right here.

It's already dark by the time the crime lab unit gets there. Tell me something you guys. Okay. Well, one step in here. We got a positive reaction with the lumenol on the ceiling here.

They bring in lumenol, which is a chemical that detects the presence of blood. Right here.

And there was some things over there.

They did get a positive reaction from that area. Where it looked like something happened right under the door and kind of spread as it went back on the ceiling. And they said that they got a positive reaction from that. I'm thrilled.

I'm thrilled. I'm sorry. We had finished this search warrant at approximately 10 o'clock at night. So it's late. Investigators think that they've uncovered a gold mine of evidence against the

law enforcement until something shocking happens the next day. I got a phone call from one of the neighbors in the morning and said I just want to let you know that they totally loaded up their truck in the skip town. The law enforcement have disappeared. [MUSIC PLAYING]

[MUSIC PLAYING] Cheekess. Tell me something you guys. You found a couple areas of interest. Next one.

When investigators get the warrant to search the conference home, they find a litany of disturbing items including battle axes, crossbows, daggers, and knives, a shotgun, a 22 caliber pistol.

“But more important than that is what appears to be, let's go.”

We got an positive reaction with the woman all. We're telling you that's blood, right? We have a firm to get. It was looking pretty good that they were going to get some positive results back. At this point in the investigation, Chief Frizzo feels like she's got a lot of evidence on the

caulgrins. Until the very next morning, she gets a call from one of the neighbors. And that neighbor calls in the morning and said I just want to let you know that they totally loaded up their truck in the skip town. So I knew this was happening.

What was your reaction? I was worried a little bit just because I was the one that was kind of the thorn in their side. And so I wanted to be sure they weren't in a look for me or come over and find me. Todd and David Saler, the neighbors who reported the caulgrins missing,

are brought in for questioning. They tell police about another very interesting detail. They say they observed around the time of Chris Reagan's disappearance. According to David, the caulgrins started renovating their house. But not during the day.

You could hear them in their basement using power tools for multiple nights. You can use any tools and stuff and you figured that was when. Raise your own heart over. Sandy, the way you sit here. And then I said can you sit here and saw what's going on.

And then we're doing it at eye time. You're not allowed to do it. You're not allowed to do it. You're not allowed to do it. And so what went through your mind when you heard that?

And I thought, you know, I can't, I can't, I can't be.

“But at the same time with what they're telling me, it makes sense.”

That's the stuff of horror movies. Yeah. Also seemingly out of a horror movie, a chilling discovery. She froze a later makes inside the caulgrins basement. A journal written by Jason.

And he had titled it Where Monsters Hide. Then he goes on to talking about being a hunter and how the hunter hunts the prey and feels this tingle through their body.

And it's, it's kind of earring.

Almost like he was writing about this situation. It's almost like a thinly veiled confession. Yes. It just again pointed into the direction of definitely this couple had something to do with his disappearance. And definitely Jason could have snapped.

She froze out is sure that the lab results from those blood samples taken from the house will prove that Chris was brutally murdered there. But she's in for a bitter disappointment. When they called me and said, you know, we didn't get anything.

And they weren't good samples or had been treated with chemicals or whatever the case may be.

“And I remember just being so upset about that.”

You know, it was mentally drained a lot. With her main suspects now gone into the wind, the case seems to have hit a dead end. But then there's a break, it turns out that on the night before the Cochrane's leftown, those private investigators had put a tracking device on the Cochrane's track, which is legal for PIs to do in the state of Michigan.

What made you put the GPS track around? Well, we were hoping that they would go to where the body was. That's one of the most dangerous moments in the whole investigation I feel is deploying the GPS unit because of the risk of danger. What does that danger look like?

What does that feel like?

“Like somebody coming out with the shotgun and shooting us on the spot.”

Okay, ready? Yeah. Right next to that spirit tire is the back frame of the vehicle and as I get closer, just sucked right out of my hand and you know, you hear the loud bang. It's an exciting moment.

You know, you can feel your heart beating through your chest. There's a lot of things that could go wrong at that moment in time. I talked to Jim McNeill and he said we put a GPS device on the truck and I need to tell you that. I immediately did a search warrant for their GPS information so that we knew where the patterns were and what was going on. We monitored the GPS movement all through exiting the upper peninsula of Michigan through the state of Wisconsin,

the top part of Illinois there in Indiana. And then they ended up nearby within the Hobart area and shurn off. You know, we located them. They were back at Kelly's parents house in a hover. Chief Friszo wants to get DNA samples from Kelly and Jason Cochran but they're no longer in her jurisdiction.

So she contacts the Lake County Sheriff's Department in Indiana. When I spoke with her, we made a connection on the phone. She gave me all the reasons that she believed that this was a criminal case. And yeah, I believe her. We told Jason that we had a search warrant for as a DNA and we needed to transport him to the Hobart Police Department.

He did not say a word the entire time. He was just sitting in the back of the car shaking and sweating and like ringing his hands together. He's sitting in a room waiting to give his DNA swab and then he gets the surprise of a lifetime. [Music] It looked up at me and his face just started to turn red immediately.

That was a shock to his system, I'm sure. And my whole plan was to try and give him the opportunity to be the victim and to tell me what happened to Chris. [Music] [Music]

She knows something's up.

“She's calling Jason's phone over and over again.”

When Kelly cackeren saw Laura Frisot, you could tell that seemed to be her nemesis. [Music] So as I started to leave the room to get to the technicians to take her DNA, she said, "Where's my husband?" When I just kind of looked back at her because I kind of fed her a line that, you know, Jason's already told us everything. We already know what happened.

[Music]

What Laura effectively does is create distrust between the couple, who comes February of 2016, that distrust is going to implode the Cockering Household.

[Music] The 911 call from Kelly Cockering comes in that could unravel the mystery of what happened to Chris Reagan. [Music] Here we have one of the most sensational murders, but very few people have actually heard about this case. It's a really heinous and nutritious crimes. So what made you call the FBI? I found the flyer on Chris Reagan being missing.

Now, let's call my instincts. We're just yelling at me that something's not right to see. What makes the Caspian pit such an excellent place to hide evidence? The burn barrel was actually found by the divers just off shore here. And back in these woods, I'm even more important to discover.

“I'm trying to figure out what's the best way to get somebody to tell you a secret that only they know.”

[Music] It's almost like the two of them were having a chess game, absolutely. I think she wanted to play the game. You are basically having to convince Kelly that her dead husband was sending a message from beyond the grave. [Music]

And the reason this case is so engaging, it's the amount of police video that's available. It's amazing.

The Kelly Cockering case just is the biggest case we've had, maybe ever. Her was like, lie lie lie truth, lie lie truth, lie lie truth. You gotta figure it out. [Music]

“The end of 2014, there was a missing man in the Iron River area.”

He wasn't found. Chris Reagan is missing and it is a mystery. Police Chief Laura Frizzo discovers that Reagan is romantically tied to a married coworker, Kelly Cockering. She and her husband, Jason, are brought in for questioning. Jason really had motive, you know, he was the husband who has been cheated on.

But as soon as he's in front of police, he falls apart, he's shaking, he's fumbling over his words. [Music] When Laura and her team searched the Cockering's home, they find a litany of weapons from battle axes to shotguns. They find this blood spatter and they find a manuscript written by Jason called "We're Monsters Hides." The manuscript is essentially fantasy-driven tale of a overlooked man, and it has various accounts of him and his wife killing people.

And includes one that almost perfectly mirrors what happened with Chris Reagan. So at this point, investigators think that they have uncovered a gold mine of evidence against the Cockering's. Until something shocking happens the next day, the Cockering's have now disappeared. When Jason and Kelly Cockering fled their home and Michigan's upper peninsula back in March of 2015, private investigators were already tracking their movements using a hidden GPS device.

Kelly and Jason were neighbors. They lived next to each other, other lives.

I was trying to do what I thought was the right thing. You go to school, you go to college, you didn't married. Kelly wore the pants in the family, so whatever she wanted Jason did. I got bored from getting married. It was okay in the start, but I got all I did was work. She was wanting to help get their business up and running and make more money. Even though the Cockering's are now out of her jurisdiction, she's frisso continues to investigate Chris Reagan's disappearance.

She's now focused on a place known as the Caspian Pit. She enlisted the help of a former police investigator, Michael Niagara.

“What makes the Caspian Pit such an excellent place to hide evidence?”

Well, it's deep, and also it's within a couple hundred meters before the Cockering's lived, and be very easy to get to in the dark and drop something. Were you able to dredge up a burn peril, was that here? Yes, a burn peril was actually found by the divers just off shore here. There was a closed line attached to this burn barrel with a cement block to it,

to weight it down. We found cement blocks in the backyard of Cockering's and the actual closed line, which was missing. I think the implication was that perhaps Kelly and Jason were burning Chris's body, or parts of it at least. I was what in my garage and what in the heck's that smell? And I walked across the street here and she came running out of her yard and met me in the middle of the street.

I said, "What the hell are you burning?" And she's there and burning some brush-hawk there.

I said, "Look, I lived up here in my whole life. I never smelled like that."

The Cockering's had a fire pit, and there was a burn barrel that had been there.

“Once we sifted through that fire pit ash, we found a soft blade.”

We found the components to a pair of jeans, which was quite significant. We felt confident that this was likely their burn barrel. However, there was nothing in it, obviously. It was open in the pit, and anything that wasn't in it would have washed out. Why did you need to get rid of that?

So that was my validation, any way that we were on the right track. But then, in February of 2016, back in Hobart, Indiana, there's a truly shocking development that's about to upend the entire case. A 911 call coming from the house where the Cockering's are living. Wake County 911, operator 17.

My husband is this and this is like 12. He's breathing very easily. I don't know if you're going off these sletties. I need the ambulance right away.

“Kelly calls 911. Kelly calls 911, and says, "I need the ambulance here.”

My husband is barely breathing." "You said he had to breathe in." On this call, my instincts were just yelling at me, that something's not right with the scene. She seemed to kind of conveniently get in our way a lot,

and she just didn't seem to have the proper reaction to finding her husband in cardiac arrest. I'm panicking, like, I'm trying to be as some use as much as I did one of my life. I didn't want to have dead. Jason Kacrin, unfortunately, was pronounced dead.

The emergency room at St. Mary's. After Jason died, Kelly reached out to his friend Walt. She let him know that Jason had passed. And Walt was immediately concerned. Kelly's tone was very strange.

Everything about it felt abrupt and staged, and with encouragement from his wife, Walt called the FBI. So what made you call the FBI? I found the flyer on Chris Regan being missing, and it had two numbers on there.

The iron river police and the FBI. So I figured somebody should know that Jason's dead. Do you remember what you told the FBI? I told them that I have some friends that lived in the UP. They told me they're suspects.

And one of them died Saturday. The FBI routes the call to the proper jurisdiction, and it lands on the desk of Hobart Detective Sergeant Jeremy Ogden. Jeremy Ogden had a reputation as an amazing investigator. Jeremy was known as a master interviewer.

I've never received a call like that before.

I knew that I needed to make sure that Jason wasn't being taken to a funeral home, rather than going for an autopsy. It's not every day that a detective attends an autopsy, and so what did you learn in that particular one? I learned that Jason had particular hemorrhaging around his eyes

within the whites of his pupils.

Pressure and suffocation.

“The autopsy results lead Ogden to take a deep dive”

into Kelly Cochrane's background, and Chris Regan's disappearance. So he connects with Chief Laura for Zo from Iowa River.

And then ultimately Laura sent me all of the documents and the videos.

Immediately I knew that this was going to work out well because he was on the same page, his thoughts, his words. It was like, oh my gosh, somebody else gets it. He gets it. He's thinking like I do. And that's for her.

What follows is a cat mouse game between detective Ogden and Kelly Cochrane. I didn't say you did it. As Ogden hatches, a truly bizarre scheme to get Kelly to open up about what really happened to Chris Regan. He decides to make a carving on the tree

that will really freak her out when she sees it. I thought maybe she would see it as a sign from the dead or maybe even something supernatural. Wow. It needs some water.

I need a martini. Yeah.

I love the sound of cooking.

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Streaming next day on Disney Plus and Hulu. Sunday nights on ABC. What happens when the person you love the most? Turns out not to be who you think they are. Everything he told me was alive.

I was betrayed from the number one true crime podcast. The trail. He's been living a secret double life. My marriage ended with a 911 file. The tape is blood curdling.

The trail. Secrets and lies. So many people are living with their own betrayal. Sunday nights at 10 o'clock on ABC and stream on Disney Plus and Hulu. At this point, Jeremy Ogden is now leading the investigation into the

Cochrane. I'm running the case.

“And I'm doing all the things that I think are necessary.”

Detective Ogden has what will be the first of many interrogations

with Kelly Cochrane at the Hobart Police Station. Following her husband Jason's death. I'm not trying to push you. I'm not at all. I just want to take the right to go through.

Kelly has a lot to say about what happened to Jason. But when the conversation turns to Chris Reagan, not so much. I'm not trying to push you. I'm not at all.

I just want to take the right to push me to say something. I didn't say you really did. I said by the time this is done, you'll tell me what happened to Chris. Detective Ogden starts talking with Kelly and

building a relationship with her. That relationship building involves several conversations that Jeremy recorded undercover, including at a local restaurant. You can begin the next chapter of your life.

There's only one way for you to do this, though. And that's 100% off. I think she wanted to see whether or not I was going to be a worthy adversary. And I think she wanted to play the game.

And I don't want to make a permanent decision on the next temporary process. I don't know where I feel now because that's fair to me. It's almost like the two of them were having a chess game. Absolutely, yeah.

“I'm trying to figure out what's the best way to get somebody”

to tell you a secret that only they know. And I come up with this idea about a fake letter. Detective Ogden calls Jason's friend, Walt Amherman, and tells him he wants him to be part of this plan to catch Kelly Kalker.

What he wanted Walt to do was become an actor. They were going to have him call Kelly from a parked car to talk about this letter. It is March 12, 2016 at 4.38 pm. He's going to be calling Kelly Kalker.

You wanted me to call her and tell her that I had a letter that Jason had mailed me.

This is all made up, made up for one purpose

“to see what Kelly Kalker's reaction would be.”

I got a letter like January 4th or 5th or something like that from him.

You were basically having to convince Kelly

that her dead husband was sending a message from me on the grave. That he felt her new that she likely was going to do something to him. The notes says there's something where that happened to me.

Please send this in a few weeks to the I River Police Department. It's like I'm supposed to mailed this, but I just wanted to tell you. Please don't.

Please don't. She says please don't mail it. I don't know. Yes, she has you. And right then I knew like he got her.

Yeah, hook line and sinker. And what did that tell you? Told me I did the right thing. But that wasn't your only chess mood. You had another trick up your sleeve,

which was a tree and a carving? Yeah. The tree's over there. Yeah, the tree's right over there.

“And I had watched her several times there.”

He's actually been following Kelly Cochrane. She doesn't know this. And Detective Ogden knows that Kelly goes to this one park all the time and is by a certain tree.

She would just come and she would sit on that log. And there was a couple times where I thought she was even crying. So he decides to make a carving on the tree that will really freak her out when she sees it.

And what he scarves into the tree is Chris is here. I thought maybe she would see it as a sign from the dead or maybe even something supernatural and just generate her to talk to me even more. It's not exactly the way they teach at the police academy.

No. All I saw were her running through the woods and then all of a sudden the truck backed out and she took off. That's the night that she decides to tell me everything.

You watched him die. Right? Where did he shoot him in his butt? He died? You don't know?

You caught Chris and was in your arms. This is huge.

For the first time, Kelly is admitting Chris was murdered.

Chris is why in your house, shot. You told me this. And then he died quickly. Correct? She says that Jason shot Chris, her portion is being forced

to help clean up. I'm the victim. My husband was abusive. I had no choice. I couldn't tell anybody or he'd kill me too.

What happened to Chris? Tell you something. What happened to Chris? What are you talking about outside? What did he do with Chris?

I don't know. I remember her words being he downsized him. I didn't just made my stomach turn.

That was the first time she admitted not only had Chris been murdered,

but that he'd been dismembered. Correct. And she goes on to give a very specific detail that will come into play later. She claims that Jason forced her to pull the bullet out of Chris's body with a pair of force ups.

Why not a restaurant? You have to understand. I've put her in a position to play the victim. She had to do all of these things under the rest.

“And that's how she's going to be able to disclose other information”

so that we can recover Chris Reagan. But you don't worry about the piece of it? Yes. You're going to go with me, okay? We're going to go.

He says we're going to Michigan. You're going to show us where the body is. Detective Ogden and Kelly drive all night. He is counting on her to help him. But will she, with her, was like, "Li-Li-Li-Li-Truth." "Li-Li-Li-Li-Truth."

It's the middle of the night. Kelly Conqueror is driving with Detective Jeremy Ogden back to the upper peninsula of Michigan

Driving up there with her, it was interesting.

I mean, she did what most people do after they tell you their deepest darkest secret. She slept. They drive all night. They leave it like midnight. They get tired and remember, you know, like seven in the morning. It's just miles and miles of trees and rolling hills.

You could literally go to a place here where nobody else had ever been. Pretty easy to hide a body. Yeah. It's weird how beautiful it is, and at the same time, eerie. So as I'm following them, they go down to this one particular area.

We're just like on a flat, straight spot in the road. And she's like, "It's right here." And there are other police officers there to search the area. But they find nothing.

“So the question is, did Kelly get the spot wrong or is Kelly lying?”

Detective Ogden then asked Kelly to show him around her house where the murder happened. I wanted her to explain to me what happened to Chris and how he died. And then we'll go upstairs and we're going to look for way down. And it felt all beyond film. She started to take me upstairs.

This was your room, Kelly? Yes.

She told you basically that they had had sex.

There were some kind of sex involved. You and him ended up up here in this room. Can you do that? I'm the fortune to do it. You know, it's like you can see your mind working.

Whatever story she was going to tell me it was going to have to match the physical evidence that we may or may not discover. She takes him back downstairs and says, you know, "Actually it happened out here in the hallway in this back hallway." You're having sex right here. Okay, so she says that once they're done, Chris starts to walk up the stairs into the kitchen and Jason unbeknownst to her shoots him from the basement. You're telling me that Jason shot him from behind and that Chris falls back on her and that they both tumble down the stairs.

“Is he still on top of you when you get to the bottom?”

Is he, are you actually under him? Okay. With her, I was like, "Lie, lie, lie truth, lie, lie truth, lie, lie truth, you gotta figure it out." What's Jason say to you? Loss him?

It is so tiny. As incriminating as all this is, Detective Ogden is sure she isn't telling the whole truth. You continue that conversation back in Indiana. Yeah, hours and hours of conversation. Yeah, there's over a hundred hours.

What do he believe? Again, it's all recorded under cover. What don't I believe? I'm not sure. I'm not sure with you. His communication with her here really picked up speed back in Indiana because he's now determined.

I'll meet her at a park. I've set down her restaurant with her. I only have one goal. It's a brain Chris home. Detective Ogden believes that the more they talk, the more likely Kelly is to slip up. And if she slips up, she may just leave them to Chris Riggins' body.

"Can't understand the care she's losing, you're not." "He's not in the ground." "I don't know what's going on." "I'll give you my word." It seems like Kelly kind of wanted to be playing with Detective Ogden, the sort of cat and mouse game.

“"You have to understand that there are things that you've said throughout this that would cause concern."”

"Okay." "Enchanges in variations of your story." She continues to maintain throughout all these hundreds of hours that she's the victim.

"It's always my husband forced me to do this."

"You've said that you're the victim when he comes to Chris, that you were putting this bad decision, right?" "At one point, you put your foot down and say, "Stop lying." "No more of this crap lying to me. You can't walk, no, all the shit I've been paying for, you're with you." "All the shit." "What brought that on?"

"Frustration, probably." Ogden thinks Kelly realizes he is losing his patience, and might finally just arrest her. It was all about to come to a head, soon after Detective Ogden gets a misspelled text from Kelly. Ever been to the west coast, I was driving last night.

Except she didn't head west after all.

“The police tracked her as she fled south to Kentucky.”

33-year-old Kelly Cochlan was arrested in Graves County, Kentucky after a tip to the US marshals. Cochlan was wanted in Michigan.

And so, when you interviewed her in Kentucky, in many ways, it was a breakthrough confession.

"Yes." "Thanks for the effort." "Why didn't they do for me?" "Because I'm here." "I interviewed her all day that day, and then I interviewed her for a portion of the day the next day."

Now Kelly drops another bombshell. "If I cheated, be my responsibility." Her news story, she now claims she knew in advance that Jason was going to kill Chris Reagan, the night she invited him to their home. "It's a part of the plan, you allowed it to occur when you didn't have to allow it to occur."

And she tells Ogden she knew this, because they had an agreement. "What is that agreement, her?" "Right?"

“"And your agreement from the time you were married was that you have the affair.”

It's your responsibility to allow that person." "Okay."

"Or he would join you by first."

"Right." "If either spouse were to cheat during the course of the marriage, the cheating spouse would have to either kill their lover or be killed by this other spouse." "You heard that right, and yet that bizarre, alleged wedding day pact is just the start of what she reveals." "I'm gonna get emotional, I can't wait one second, because it still gets me every time."

"Now, in jail, in Michigan, charged with murder, Kelly Cochran is taken out of herself to go on what cops are calling a field trip." Kelly had agreed that she would take me to Chris's remains where she left them. She wanted to do the right thing. "I can do that to Chris."

"I can do that to Chris." "I can do that to Chris." "I'd park down."

“"She takes her a little further east, and she took us on the first day."”

"Thank you." "What would the biggest pizza bone be that you, I mean?" "To our son, I was here, so then we should find ribs." "And I think that the general ribs." "The goal should be the biggest though."

"As she's talking, she has no guilt at all." "So carefree, like no big deal." "This was not exactly a somber day for her." "She had a lot of cigarettes." "And then she asked for a cheese pizza for lunch."

While the searching continues, she phraso takes her to the house. "You say that, you know, she has Jason told him into here, and that's where he kind of looks." "And she's eating a piece of pizza, of course, when we're doing this." "And then Kelly also is just non-shallotly walking past the kitchen sink and says, "Oh, there's the four steps." "You sit down and go four steps."

"Yeah, that was your son." "Yeah." "Here you go." "You're saying you use those?" "It had been sitting there the whole time."

"And I said, "Are you saying you use those to try and get the bullet out of Chris's head?" "And she said, "Yeah." "It's like that."

"It was critical evidence matching what Kelly had said in that early interrogation."

"When she first admitted that Chris had been murdered." "But back in these woods," "and even more important to discover." "Chris Regan's skull itself." "I'm gonna get emotional."

"I weigh one second because it still gets me every time." "I just said to myself, I finally found you." "I just literally," "like said that to myself." "You know?"

"So." "That was a very sobering moment." "And the only bright spot on that is they could link Kelly Cochran into." "His murder and that got things going so that she would go to trial." "The Kelly Cochran case just is the biggest case we've had locally."

"Maybe ever." Kelly's life was riding on the trial.

Kelly Cochran pleads not guilty.

“"I was definitely afraid that she was gonna get off."”

"You never know how a jury's going to go."

"The ladies and gentlemen, Kelly and Jason Cochran were fond of him." "Case was prosecuted by Iron County Prosecutor Melissa Powell." "We were pretty confident going into trial that we could convict her of being an eighter and a better." Kelly Cochran was a willing participant. "And because of that, she's just as guilty as he is."

"Michael Shilky was the defense attorney for Kelly Cochran." "One of the people have to get to their burden." "Just the word of this doctor." "But you're no more." "Just the word."

"We believe that Jason acted alone because he was not into this open marriage." "And was jealous and angry that Kelly was involved with another man." "Please be seated." "The trial would last almost three weeks." "She has already admitted that she knew what was gonna happen."

"And though there were some 60 witnesses, the case pretty much boiled down to just one." "Cellie Cochran herself." Kelly testified about the abuse that she claims she suffered in her marriage. "There's a lot of thanks for you grabbing and pushing the issue." "You can be very jealous, very angry."

"There was times when he had threatened me in the house outside of the house." "There was stuff about me." "Like Accord testified for several days." "I don't think she helped herself at all."

"You never told people that he was abusive or to listen to him."

"So yeah." "And you never told people that he threatened you to listen to him." "Right?" "And so after." "When I saw Kelly in person, I couldn't believe Christopher.

What have had a sexual relationship with her?" "She looked like the devil. Her eyes were blank. "I don't know if I haven't taken too much in. She can or even do anything about it."

"There's nothing that comes out of her mouth that I would ever believe."

“"I think the jury wanted to hear from her.”

And how she was going to explain away hundreds of hours of previous statements." "Remember her story changed in all those recorded interrogations from "I know nothing" "to Jason forced me to help kill Chris." "What does that agree with her?" "We're ready tonight."

"To, we had a wedding pact and I was part of the murder." "I also like it." "Because every time I have an interview or a interrogation with him, everything I said was wrong." "When you need him, I'm interested in his room." "He would question me until I said what was supposed to be said."

"What was it like watching Kelly on the stand?" "Excruciating." "So, to your testimony today, you've had no plans to kill Chris and all of her.

I've never wanted him to do it."

"And you like to be talked about, and you said you was trying to hurt Chris." "She swears, this testimony is no lie." "Today, you're telling the truth, at least 12 or 14 years." "With Kelly admitting so many lies, the defense asked the jury. How can they believe one story versus any other?"

"Why is she truthful?" "When she says she's acting with Jason?" "First of the times, as she said he acted along, what makes her much reformatted." "I think at that point in time, she's overwhelmed. She's made so many statements, she's told so many lies.

It's time to tell the truth. People disclose the truth and bits and pieces when they're ready and when they're caught." "The defendants in this manner were bonded in blood. Chris Reagan was bathed in it. And at this time, I'm asking you to wash your way with blood.

You'll find it when you get to your pockets." "There is reason with all care. People are fail to be the murderer.

“And if you believe out, you have to wish."”

"You Kelly had made the comment before trial. You don't think I can turn just one juror. I was concerned that there might be one juror that buys her story." "As those jurors start to deliberate, there is something else. What is it that they haven't heard?"

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ESPN and ABC. The jury deliberated for about three hours, which considering it was a two and a half week long trial, wasn't very long at all. The jury comes back in and as they're standing in the jury box,

I felt confident because, you know, a couple of them did. Look over and smile. Just kind of give a look. Count number one open murder, guilty of first degree, premeditated murder, eating in the bedding.

Everybody just cried. And Chris's family was sitting right behind me, and the first thing I did is just turn around and hug them. Kelly was just straight face during the reading of the verdict. I didn't notice any changes in her at all.

Unfortunately, the jury bought the story that the prosecution put forth.

35-year-old Kelly Cochrane will never again walk free.

guilty of five-tole felony counts.

“Kelly was convicted on first degree, premeditated murder,”

which carries mandatory life sentence in Michigan, and without the possibility of parole. For me, it's not going to change anything. You know, Chris is gone. And what she did is just horrible.

I hope she rats and hell. Kelly Cochrane is convicted and sentenced, but there's much more to her case than what was presented in court. Dark and twisted allegations that the jurors never heard. These are some really disturbing allegations

that were brought forth by the neighbors of the cochranes, who said they heard these weird construction noises coming from Kelly and Jason's house late at night. It's here. And now it's time to set the community sick kids up.

They're on the roll long way. It goes back and forth. And Cochrane warms the nails and everything at the same time with it. Kelly and Jason asked me

if I want to come over for dinner one night. I was like, "Yeah, sure." And this was like two days after Chris was missing. It's like my body and how much meat they had.

Still, you're always wondering about that.

You're wondering if they were to that kind of people and that she did kill the guy and then bullshit them up and add us over for dinner. I think they'd hack them up and take them to us.

I'm like, "Oh, God. Oh, God." Like, "No." When I realized that I might have ate the dude, I didn't want to believe it. It changed me. It changed me one hundred percent.

It was a theory that they came to a conclusion on their own. That wasn't something that we ever even brought into the case investigation. It's not that I didn't think it could happen, but it wasn't significant at the time.

But one thing investigators took very seriously was the allegation that there could be other murder victims out there. Kelly's own brother told Detective Ogden that Kelly said herself that there were more victims. And the more she's coming from her,

she's telling you guys a threat. And how many more bodies did she tell you? Both of them are very close. Police were recording all of Kelly Cochrane's phone conversations while she was behind bars.

And you can hear her own mother asking her, "Is it true? Are there other murder victims?" I know. What's going on, Kelly? What the hell is wrong? I mean, where did all this come from?

You didn't see this coming? I see this coming after it all happened, but I didn't know that you guys killed people before all this. Do you have a conscience?

“Does this light, I mean, have you always felt this light?”

I've always felt like this.

Kelly actually told me that she was born the way she is. She's never had emotions. She's never had sympathy. There is no evidence that has been brought forth that would indicate that any stories that were told by Kelly of being involved in murders of other people are true.

that are tied to Kelly Cochrane. But what does Kelly Cochrane herself now say about the allegations that she's a serial killer? You had told police that you had killed others in the past. Is there truth to that?

In a case where they uncovered so much darkness and evil, there would be a surprising light at the end of the tunnel for the two lead investigators. Following the guilty verdict, Kelly assentants to life in prison for the murder of Chris Reagan.

11 months later, Kelly pleads guilty to murdering her husband, Jason Cochrane, in Indiana, and assentants to an additional 65 years in prison.

“I believe that the idea behind this evil and her,”

I mean, it's a purest form of evil that you're going to get. I spoke to Kelly Cochrane from her prison in Michigan where she's serving out her life sentence. You told police that you had killed others in the past. Is there truth to that?

No, I've never killed anybody.

Then why would you tell investigators you had and lead them on wild goose traces? They said they spoke to neighbors who lived down the street from you who were convinced that they had a barbecue that consisted of human remains.

I heard about that. Here's the thing. I never had a barbecue with anybody. Nobody was ever cooked. Nobody was barbecue. I've spoken to investigators Kelly who said that when they

talked to you and heard your story, that it made them believe in pure evil. What would you say to that? I believe that's [bleep] 'Cause I'm not a bad person. I was raised by good people.

I've never harmed anybody.

“And so in your view, what did happen that night when Chris died?”

I wasn't disabled from there. And cut him up in front of me. And you just stood there doing nothing? What are you talking about? You didn't call the police. You didn't.

I was tied up. This is the first I'm hearing of her ever saying she'd been tied up. This is a game. She's going to continue this game as long as she can. And she's not done with it yet. There probably is now a punishment on this earth

that can match what she did to Christopher. ♪♪ I could go Christopher with me when I'm around Apple Blossom Trail in a warm. I enjoy it how you know. This is a good place for us.

♪♪ For Laura Fresno, the case had a bittersweet outcome. Although she was able to help bring justice for Chris Reagan's murder, she was fired from her job as police chief after Kelly's arrest.

“I started to have some issues with my boss.”

I work and those issues kind of got heated. ♪♪ But while Laura may have lost her job, she found romance in an unlikely place. I felt immediately connected to him just because of the person he was.

And so you kind of made the first move.

What happened? It's one day texting and I said, "Do you want to kiss me?" I was like, "Why did I send that?" Because it was like dead air, just no response for a long time. You know, the answer was yes, right out of the gate.

As soon as I read it. So you asked for the first kiss to who asked for the who's hand in marriage. I did. How'd that go, big guy? It went well.

She accepted, right away. What's the future for both of you? We've owned a piece of land that Laura picked in the UP right on the lake. And one day, I'm going to build her a dreamhouse there. ♪♪

And of course, we wish them the best as they now plan their next chapter together, away from their work. That is our program for tonight. Thanks so much for watching. I'm David Yore, and from all of us here at 2020 and ABC News.

Good night. ♪♪ Thanks for listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault. We hope you'll join us Friday night at 9 on ABC for all new broadcast episodes. See you then.

♪♪ No! Oh, no! Welcome to Get Real. I got something to say.

A weekly talk show for the reality TV of Seth. Oh, my God. It's gonna be deliciously desperate. The final piece for us for Get Real. She has a soft spot for trouble, man.

This is your show. Find Get Real wherever you get your podcasts.

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