Lindsay Clancy Trial: Patrick Clancy Takes the Stand

of suicide and the killing of children, so please listen or watch with care.

“We'll have resources at the end of the episode.”

I was into princesses, and she had a lot of friends and she just like taking care of people using firefighters and trucks and, um, you like, pop patrol. That's Patra Clancy, testifying on Monday, July 27th, and the murder trial of his ex-wife Lindsay Clancy.

The Ducksbury Massachusett's mother is charged with three counts of first-degree murder in

the January 2023 deaths of the couple's children, five-year-old Korra, three-year-old Dawson, and eight-month-old Calen. There is no dispute that Lindsay strangled and killed their re-children at the family's home after sending Patrick out for errands. What the jury has to decide is if Lindsay will be found guilty of murder, or if she shouldn't

“be held criminally responsible for those killings, due to her defensive postpartum psychosis.”

Lindsay faces a penalty of life imprisonment without parole, if convicted. But just to be clear, even if she is found not criminally responsible, she will be civilly committed to a state mental health facility where she would remain until doctors and the court determine that she's no longer a danger, and that could last indefinitely. I'm CBS News Legal Analyst in Criminal Defense Attorney Caroline Polisi, and this is

case by case. Joining me today is CBS News correspondent Chanel Call, who's been reporting from the trial in person. Thank you so much for joining us today, Chanel. I've been following your coverage on the CBS evening news and all over our social feeds.

It's just wonderful to have you here. Thanks so much, Caroline. I appreciate that.

This is actually my first time in Plymouth, Massachusetts, so I'm coming to you from my hotel room

today because it's actually raining outside, and so we couldn't come to you from outside the court house, but yeah, it's been a pretty wild and heavy week here. Chanel, I'm eager to hear your insights from inside the courtroom, but before we dive in, I just want to remind our audience that case by case covered the events leading up to this trial in a previous episode, and if you haven't listened or watched it yet, you can find

the Lindsey Clancy case, a family tragedy on trial wherever you find your podcasts. So in that episode, we went deeper into the definition and discussion around postpartum psychosis and depression, but just to recap, postpartum psychosis is a mental health condition that can occur soon after giving birth, and it's categorized by the medical community as a mental health emergency that can cause hallucinations, delusions, paranoia and other behavioral

changes.

Yeah, and Caroline, I don't know about you, but I had never even heard of postpartum psychosis

or PPP until this week. I'm not blessed with being a mother just yet, but I've had friends and family members that have gone through postpartum depression or baby blues and have heard

“about that, but I think what I learned this week is that is very different than postpartum”

psychosis. Like psychosis is something that is very rare, very serious, but look, it is preventable, it is treatable, and a lot of the medical experts that we talk to this week are saying, that is something that you really need inpatient care for. Yeah, absolutely. So on that last episode, the Clancy case generated a lot of debate from our audience, I was just looking through some of the comments, and there are some very strong opinions about

this case. I mean, lots of hot takes, right, Caroline? This is a complicated case. It's also a really emotional case, and maybe because a lot of us have a certain perception or idea of the role mothers should play in society and our families, you know, people feel really strongly about this, a lot of people share in their own experience with postpartum depression or even postpartum psychosis, and then there's other people who have the other perspective here that agree with the prosecution

Caroline, people that think that this had to be something that was pre-meditated, this had to be something that was calculated, and they believe she should be held firmly liable. Yeah, this is just opened up a whole discussion around women's health care, mental health,

a lot of mothers having very strong opinions. I want to get into the detail Chanel with you about

this really intense case, so the trial kicked off with the jury selection on Monday, July 20th, over three years since the killings, and for such a tragic and well-publicized case, I mean, I would imagine it'd be really hard finding jurors who could remain impartial. Yeah, absolutely Caroline. You know, this was a high-profile case, not just here in Massachusetts,

“but across the country. So I think it was always going to be a challenge to find jurors who”

were not going to have an opinion who were not going to come into this with any kind of bias, especially when it comes to women, when it comes to female jurors. There were several women who spoke

about how being a mother was going to make a difficult for them to come into this and see some

of the evidence, and look at that evidence fairly. There was even one woman who left the courtroom in tears. Not only was it difficult to see this jury because of the sensitive nature of this evidence, but I actually noticed the judge, he instructed the jury to really try their best to disregard any intense feelings they may have of sympathy or emotion that the evidence might produce in them, and really use it only for evidentiary value, but it's just, it's difficult. It's difficult to hear,

it's difficult to experience, and it's difficult to see. Yeah, and we saw that play out in day two

“of the trial. You know, prosecutors were there. They played that 911 call that Patrick had made”

to police the night that he came home, the night he found that his children were killed. And before that happened, that's exactly what the judge did, right? What you mentioned, where they're instructing the jury to listen to this call and to just consider the facts and set aside the emotional value of that 911 call. But I have to say, you know, I was in the courtroom Caroline. I heard this call. This was a really chilling call. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to be sitting on that

jury, and, you know, we tasked with separating the emotion from the facts here. Yeah, I mean, I can't even imagine it. But let's let's talk about opening statements. They began this week, and what it was like inside that courtroom. Well, the courtroom was full. There were people in Lindsay's family, her sister, her parents were there. There was three rows of the media as well. And, you know, there's lots of people from the community who showed up because there's just so much

public interest in this case. Something interesting that I noticed, Caroline, was like 90% of people from the community on day one that showed up for day one of those trial were actually women.

Let's play a portion of those opening statements. So you'll hear from the prosecution first and then

the defense. This is not a case about the Lindsay Clancy that sits before you today. This case is about the Lindsay Clancy on January 24, 2023. At the time of the crime, this was not a woman in the throws of psychosis on January 24, 2023. This was a woman who acted intentionally, rationally, and swiftly to accomplish a very specific goal to tell. This is a woman that did not get the medication, did not get the medical treatment that she saw deserved. This is a woman that was suffering

from psychosis at the time that she went down to that basement. She had no motive. She loved her children. She intended to kill herself. She didn't fake that. So Caroline, what's happening here is you're hearing a prosecution sort of paint this picture of Lindsay that is somebody who thought this out. Someone who was very calculated was very deliberate, someone with a sound mind. That's really the key word here. But then you have the defense telling a very different story.

A story, Caroline, about someone who was experiencing really serious mental illness in the months leading up to the moment that she killed her three children. So the prosecution's opening was really foreshadowing how they later dealt with Patrick Clancy on the stand. And the types of questions they were going to ask him, if Lindsay showed any signs of having a mental breakdown.

“Well, look, I think what the prosecution was trying to do from day one was basically tell a story”

of a woman who felt like life was too overwhelming. She was anxious about going to work apparently, and there were a lot of references to her character in terms of being too controlling. And that's why she had to choose to do this. And remember, Lindsay is there Caroline. She's there in the room during these opening statements. She was quite visibly emotional during some of that. She even broke down into tears at one point. Now, the defense on the other hand emphasized that she really

had no motive and that she loved her children, that she repeatedly sought treatment for her mental health struggles. And the defenses arguing that Lindsay Clancy should not be held criminally

whether Lindsay knew what she was doing was wrong, but also if she was able to act on that understanding at the time. So here this test is not only was she able to tell the difference between

“right from wrong, but also could she control her own actions? That's what's so interesting about”

this story, right? And you know this because you have a legal background, but of course, the burden of proof here is on the prosecutors. So, you know, we're hearing about her mental health, we're seeing that a lot of it in the last few months before the killing was pretty well documented. You know, in fact, we heard from her ex has been Patrick Clancy testifying this late that they tried multiple times. He said to try to get treatment, they even checked her into a hospital.

She went to the ER. She was prescribed all of these different medications. And yet here we are. Yeah, and you know, from a tactical standpoint, I think the prosecution, you know, can certainly see that she was having mental health struggles. They just have to show that she was not in a state of psychosis where she couldn't recognize what she was doing was wrong or that she couldn't conform her conduct to the law. So, you know, that's the burden your right is on the

prosecution, not the defense here. Yeah, and look, they have actually conceded that look, this is someone who we agree, struggled with their mental health. But, you know, my sense here, Caroline is like the argument from their perspective is hindering on the idea that she wasn't in a state of psychosis on the day that she killed her children. And we're seeing this play out in the trial because even though we're in early days, we've seen them try to hammer this argument home three times. We heard

Patrick Plancy taking the stand and being questioned by prosecutors. And he had actually said that in his view, Lindsay was having one of the best days on the day that this happened, as she killed her three children. And then on Wednesday, we also heard from someone who was a manager at CBS saying that while when I talked to Lindsay on the phone earlier that day, she seemed to sound normal. They also brought a host from the Russ Toronto 3V, which is where Patrick picked up,

take out dinner from that night as well, while he was gone from the house. And the host said,

“yes, I also took Lindsay's order on a phone, she seemed to sound normal. So I think that that's what”

they're trying to prove is like, this is someone who was buying on the day of this killing.

So, as we noted, the prosecution did call Patrick as their first witness. And, you know,

people have been pontificating about what this testimony was going to be. It was really highly anticipated because he, you know, had the first hand experience living with Lindsay leading up to these killings. And, you know, he was obviously the first on the scene. What was the reaction in the courtroom when he entered? Yeah, Caroline, I think there was so much natural curiosity about who this person is, what they're going to say on the stand. And one of the big reasons for that is because

we saw what he said just a few days after his children were killed. He put out this statement on a go-find me page where he actually asked people to forgive Lindsay for what she did. And I think that caught a lot of people off guard. And I think it also proves this case is so much more complicated. So much more nuanced and probably way less cut and drive than people think it is. And when he was on the stand, Caroline, I have to say he was pretty calm, he was pretty measured.

You know, there were moments where he got emotional. He took some heavy deep breaths, especially when he talked about, you know, the nice and the rosy memories in his children. Yeah, I mean, his testimony was just painful to watch. I noticed he was like taking these deep intentional breaths. Like he was really trying to calm himself down. Like it was taking every ounce of his energy to sort of keep it together up there. I mean, I think it's likely that this is

the first time he's seeing a lot of this excruciating evidence. You know, he has been, as you noted,

“really historically sympathetic and supportive of Lindsay. I remember that really extensive”

interview, he gave to the New Yorker in 2024. He said, I wasn't married to a monster. I was married to someone who got sick. And you know, given that he's already been pretty public about how he feels about Lindsay's role in all this, I just wonder, like, because you come from this with a legal perspective, why do you think the prosecution would have asked him to testify first? Yeah, I mean, I've been asking myself that as well, because it was sort of bumpy in the beginning.

There, you could tell it was a little content, just like I said, in some ways, he's a hostile witness, right? It seems pretty clear which side he falls on. But I think from the prosecution's

perspective, you know, he was first on the scene of the killings. And, you know, a lot of times in

these types of cases, I think the prosecution feels it's best to lay out a timeline chronologically of the events of that evening, so that they're laying the foundation of what happened. I also think it could be they want to get this really emotional testimony out of the way from the

when they go back to that deliberation room. So, you know, since the January 2023 killings,

“a lot of people want to know, what's the status of Patrick and Lindsay's relationship today?”

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, we know that Patrick and Lindsay got divorced after their children's death. Patrick later got remarried. We also understand that he moved to New York City after all this happened. Yeah, I mean, I noticed he was wearing a wedding ring during his testimony. So, the prosecution questioned him extensively about Lindsay's demeanor after giving birth to to each child and her pattern sort of becoming more anxious as she neared her return to work

and following that maternity leave. Just as a reminder, you know, Lindsay worked as a labor

and delivery nurse at MassGen. I mean, one of the things that came out in testimony is their first

born daughter was named after the first baby that Lindsay delivered at MassGen. Yeah, you know, they also asked Patrick about Lindsay expressing thoughts of harming the children and I want to play a clip of some of that exchange. How many times did she tell you this that she had thoughts of harming the kids? A couple times. And was that a couple times over the course of a night or two in December? Yeah. And as a result of her telling you this, that she had thoughts of harming the kids,

what did you do? Her parents came up and I think I asked her at some point, you know,

“look, do you feel like you need to be kept away from them? And she said no. And then, you know,”

I was very confusing because the minute later she was making the lawn chair playing with them or you know, getting the right for bed or whatever it was. So it was confusing in that she wasn't physically harming them at the time but was having had had these thoughts. Is that what you're saying?

Right. I never saw Lindsay harming the kids.

So Carolina, I think this exchange is so interesting because that sort of back and forth is exactly what doctors that I've been speaking with this week have described is what women that are going through postpartum psychosis experience. You know, you can be fine one moment the next moment you're hearing voices, you have those intrusive thoughts. And a lot of Patrick's testimony this week has actually echo that. In fact, just on Wednesday during day two of the trials,

he talked about how he's left the kids alone with Lindsay, you know, several times even overnight in the weeks when you're not to the killings. Yeah, yeah. They also asked him if he was aware that Lindsay only took a small amount of the pills prescribed by these, you know, various medical

“professionals. This, you know, I think it's a really important point because the defense is arguing”

that she was dangerously over-medicated. And I thought the defense did a really good rebuttal to this picture that the prosecution was painting that she didn't take her meds as prescribed. Patrick pushed back really hard saying she did take the medication as prescribed and that, you know, the pill bottles that the prosecution was referring to that only had, you know, a few pills taken out of them. That wasn't the entirety of the pills that she was prescribed. In fact,

there was this like intense moment in court where the defense attorney Kevin Reddington came up to Patrick and, you know, one by one showed him some empty prescription bottles that were in Lindsay's bedside table. As if to say, well, here are multiple bottles of prescriptions that that she did take. They're empty, right? So I think that really poked some holes in the prosecutions sort of theory. And, you know, jurors don't like it when they feel like either they've been lied to

or they're not getting the full story. So I think that could have done some damage to their case. Well, I think this whole idea of which medications and how much of it she was on is going to be a big part of this trial, especially if the defense is trying to say that this is someone who was over-medicated, you know, Patrick was asked a lot about this while he was on a stand this week. And he said it's true. Yeah, she was prescribed along with the medications, but he really made a note of

saying she wasn't taking all of them. There were over a dozen, you know, Caroline, but he said multiple times, this is not a situation where she was taking over a dozen medications at any given time. As for which medication she was taking and how they may have interacted with each other, that's going to be something that, you know, hopefully we'll learn more about because I'm sure we're going to hear from doctors and other health care providers who are going to take the

stand later on in this trial. And one nuance, I think that came out is it's not necessarily they're arguing that she was over-medicated so much as she was on the wrong medications, right? We heard in that opening, like perhaps she was misdiagnosed and, you know, she wasn't feeling

medication. Part of it is like she didn't actually get a diagnosis, right? Like the defense is

arguing that yes, she was suffering from PPP, but, you know, something that some of the doctors that I've been speaking to this week have had made a point of saying is like, it doesn't, it doesn't appear as though a lot of health care providers are equipped with enough advance training to even see some of the red flags sometimes. So she didn't get a clear diagnosis. Yes, we need to hear from experts because there's so much out there, especially, I mean, on social media this back and forth

about whether or not it was appropriate for her to been prescribed so many different medications,

“but I think we're getting a clearer picture and an outline of the timeline of which medication”

she was on and when. And we should also note that both Lindsay and Patrick have civil suits against some of the health care providers in this case. Now, the prosecution also questioned Patrick about one instance in November of 2022 when Lindsay went to the hospital. And why did she go to the South Shore Hospital that day?

I believe that day was because she basically went 48 hours without sleeping.

And was she having heart palpitations? I think so, yeah. Were you aware that she had taken a weed gummy that day? I don't recall. And are you aware that she didn't tell medical staff at the hospital when describing her symptoms and her medication that she left out that she had used marijuana? I wasn't with her, so I don't know what she talked about at the hospital.

So in their opening statements, the prosecution alleged that Lindsay manipulated her health care providers sought quick and easy fixes and really disengaged from treatment whenever she didn't

“like the plan. Was the prosecution trying to poke holes in Lindsay's credibility?”

Well, I mean, just remember here what the prosecution's job is is try to prove to jurors that Lindsay was in soundmine when this happened. That this was calculated. It was premeditated. So this is the line of questioning that's going to be them trying to make a case to jurors that she would help some information from some of her doctors. I will say, though, that a lot of the experts that have been talking to are again saying this is a pretty hard thing to diagnose postpartum

psychosis. You know, are there enough healthcare providers in this country that know enough about it to distinctively diagnose these cases and actually give people the care and the treatment they need before it's too late? Yeah. And then there was this moment when they asked Patrick if he was aware that Lindsay had taken selfies at the hospital one night when she was admitted. Let's play a clip.

“Were you aware that that night, um, while at the hospital, um, Lindsay was taking selfies?”

Uh, no. Yeah, I'm terror lined. This was no doubt a pretty jarring moment in court. Like you have this woman who was in the ER taking a selfie allegedly, um, you know, she'd been transferred to McLean Hospital, which if you weren't familiar, McLean isn't just any hospital, right? I mean, this is the country's one of the country's leading mental health facilities. So there is someone here who is reportedly really suffering, but also taking selfies. Uh, that can, that can be

something that's confusing for jurors to digest. I will note it is not something interestingly that that offense circled back to at any point to try to iron out or explain, um, like Kevin writing to and did on some of the other notes. So we'll just have to see how this sits with his jurors. Yeah. I thought that was interesting, you know, from a defense standpoint, but, um, that that really struck out to me as well. Um, on Wednesday, the 911 call that Patrick made the

night of the killings was played in full for the jury. But Patrick had filed a motion asking the judge to keep that call private from the media and the general public right now. Yeah. So what happened

was after jury selection wrapped up and we knew who was going to be seated, um, Patrick basically

put in this request and the judge, uh, blessed it essentially. Uh, and any asked was that they keep certain evidence private. So, you know, that graphic 911 call that was one thing. So the jurors heard it, um, we the media heard it. Any community public members that were sitting inside court, they got to hear it. But this is not something that we could replay repurpose in any way. Yeah. And, and Patrick was actually excused from the courtroom during that time.

But you were there in person to hear that. And I'm a one call along with the jurors. I mean, I mean, that must have been just incredibly emotional. I mean, you could see we could we could watch it without sound. You could see Lindsay clutching her attorney's hand and at one point breaking down sobbing. I mean, what was it like in that courtroom? I mean, this was for sure the most

in early days. But I think we all knew that we were balling into day two of this trial, um,

expecting to hear that 911 call, you know, you hear the moment that Patrick finds Lindsay in the backyard when he gets home for many of those errors. Then you hear him, you know, phony 911 and he's describing some of the injuries to her neck to her wrists. And then you also hear the moment when paramedics arrived to take care of her and to check on her and he says, you know, I'm going to go down to the basement. I'm going to check on the kids because he'd asked her earlier

and you can hear a masking on that call like where the kids and she says in the basement. And I don't think in that moment, Caroline did he realize that, you know, they'd been harmed. Perhaps maybe he thought she had put the kids in the basement while she tried to harm herself upstairs in the bedroom. And then that's when it gets really, really chilling, you know, he's calling out to the kids, they obviously don't respond. And then you hear that moment where he sees them in the basement

and Caroline, I just have chills, you know, thinking about hearing that again right now. It's like he's shrinking, he's wailing for several minutes on end as he's discovering one by one that they

“were in the basement strangled. You know, we hear the operator asking him, what happened, what happened?”

And eventually Patrick says she killed the kids. And, you know, it was incredibly difficult in the courtroom. A lot of people were visibly emotional. I was looking around. There were multiple people who broke down into yours, including of course Lindsay because she was sitting in the courtroom

during this call and we'd heard through her lawyer that this was the first time she heard the call.

That makes sense. I think it's likely the first time that both Patrick and Lindsay are hearing and seeing this evidence for the first time. So the prosecution's questions, I mean, they had to. They really went into detail about how Patrick found Cora Dawson and Colin's bodies in the basement. It was harrowing. That was definitely one of the most awful gut-wrenching moments to hear from that night. What was Patrick's demeanor having just to recount those events

I mean, I don't think you where I could imagine how difficult this would have to be. You lose your children. And now here you are taking the stand. We're counting every single, you know, harrowing detail. You have this father that found out that his three children were killed in their family home by a wife who he says he loved wearing much. He says that he was so close to, you know, all of it is so unbelievable. And now here he is reliving so much of that in Cora in front of a jury

“in front of a public in front of the media. In terms of his demeanor Caroline, you know, I think”

he was pretty solemn. He described, you know, how and where he found the children in a very matter-of-fact way. I do think that he got more emotional when he talked about the children's personalities. You know, you play that clip right off the top of the podcast here when he talked about Cora, 11 princesses. You know, those were the moments I think where we saw a bit more emotion from him. And then we saw him return to the family to run in a day, you know, he was

cross-examined by the defense team. And Lindsay's defense lawyer Kevin Ridington, who we've talked about, you know, he showed a bunch of photos of Lindsay of Cora, of Dawson, from Lindsay's Facebook page. And at one point he even brought this book. And the title here is "Good Mom's Have Scary Thoughts." And he asked Patrick if he knew that that Lindsay had this book and Patrick has said that, you know, she had a lot of books on these kinds of topics. He's probably seen it. He said,

but, you know, didn't, didn't recall exactly this one. But I'm just curious, like, you know, in your perspective, from a legal strategy point of view, Caroline, why would Breddington be pulling

up books like this? What's the point here? Well, well, first, I mean, he's laying the foundation

“with those photographs, right? She, by all accounts was this loving mother. I think he's trying”

to show what a dedicated mom she was. And then showing that she was having issues and that she was trying to get help. I mean, I think along similar lines, he also asked Patrick if he had left Lindsay home alone with the kids to go out to things like brunch and trips and friends. And, you know, he did, right? So let's, let's play a clip of the defense's questioning here. So for two days, two nights, a month, and a week or so, before she killed the children, she was home with the kids

for two days. Is that right? Right. If you had to say that you also had your friends that you would do brunch with on occasion, Sundays or week nights, or whenever guys, guys, night, type thing. Yeah. And you'd be out with your friends. And if she wanted to kill the kids, she's really could have done it that time when you wrote, right? I'm theory. So here, I mean, it looks like the defense's argument is that Lindsay couldn't have planned to harm those kids that night,

since there were, you know, plenty of opportunities for her to have done so before.

something that Patrick Clancy actually echoed many times as well. You know, he said that yes,

she admitted to him that at times she was having those kinds of graphic and intrusive thoughts. And he actually asked her when when she talked about ideas of self-harm or potentially even harming

“the children that he said, you know, Lindsay, should you be separated from the children?”

And she said no. And so, you know, given all the testimony that we've heard from Patrick, that's really centered on this fact that this was new for her. This was new for him. And it was probably confusing for both of them. He talked about how even though that she shared those intrusive thoughts, she would also be that in moments later taking care of the kids, feeding them lunch, taking them to their activities. And so, I think that they were both

pretty lost about how best to deal with this and how seriously to take it potentially.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it was confusing for everyone involved.

The defense also went on to, you know, strengthen this argument that Lindsay was over-medicated mis-medicated prior to the events that night. And I did think it was a smart move to address that prosecutions claim that Lindsay was, you know, doctor shopping to get medications. Let's play that now.

“Do you remember what medication she was prescribed?”

Coming out of that meeting. Yep. Yeah, she increased the Sarah Quill significantly. And then she prescribed her valium to help taper off of the benzus. Paper off the benzus? Yeah. To your knowledge, did Lindsay go to doctors to seek out benzus that they as a pains or

drugs just because she was a drug addict? No. Now, Lindsay, I think wanted to, she definitely didn't want to take any more benzus as a pains and definitely didn't want to take any more Sarah Quill. I think that it wasn't really a matter of trying to get off the medication. It was just trying to get on the right medication. Okay. So he's saying it wasn't just trying to get off the medication, right? It was trying to get on the right medication. I think that's

like a really important point here. And I think you're absolutely right, Caroline. This is going to be part of like the bigger broader narrative that is coming from Lindsay's defense team, right? That this is a woman who was a mother, someone who was caring, someone who understood that she was suffering and tried to get the help she needed. And the case that he's trying to make having

writing ten is that this is someone who was ultimately failed by the healthcare system. Yeah, exactly.

“So Chanel, I mean, what do you anticipate are the key moments in this trial to come?”

Yeah. So I think at the end of the day, Caroline, this isn't a who done it, right? We know what happened that night because Lindsay's defense team is agreed with what prosecutors are alleging in terms of who was it fault here. It's not a question of if Lindsay Clancy, Kiltre, three children. It's why she did it and whether or not she's going to be held criminally responsible for it. And look, I think what could move the needle here in the coming

weeks of this trial is really hearing from medical experts and healthcare professionals about what postpartum psychosis really is. And whether or not that definition lines up with what she reportedly was going through at the time, the medications I think are also going to be a really interesting part of this trial. What was she taking? How much was she taking? When was she taking it? Who was describing it? I think as we learn more about that, jurors are going to have

more information to eventually make a decision on whether or not her condition and those medications that she was on as a result of it actually played a part in this. Yeah. Chanel, we're so grateful to have you with us. This is, this is one of the most intense cases I've covered. I honestly can't imagine what it must be like to be inside that courtroom. So, thank you so so much. Thanks for having me. I mean, I will say, reporters have pretty thick skin or pretty tough cookies. But this

has been, you know, one of the most difficult things to cover in my 15-year career. You know, when that 911 call was playing, I was just looking around the room to see how other people were processing this moment. And I think that there was a collective feeling where everyone's heart was sinking, you know. And I will note as well that we actually saw paramedics were called to the court after that 911 call had played to Chuck and a juror who was experiencing some severe anxiety. So,

certainly I think this trial is going to weigh heavy on a lot of people. I heard about that. I mean, I mean, again, unimaginable, just unimaginable. So, thanks again. Now, we do want to use this opportunity to say that if you or someone you know may be experiencing a mental health crisis, contact the 988 suicide in crisis lifeline, just dial or text 988. And if you're pregnant or of just had a baby, you can dial or text the national maternal mental health hotline at 1-833-TLC-M-A-M-A.

We will be back next week with another episode of Case by Case. Be sure to rate and review and let us know which cases you're following and which cases you like us to follow.

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