5-4
Prologue Projects
<p>5-4 is a podcast about how much the Supreme Court sucks. Hosted by Peter Shamshiri, Rhiannon Hamam, and Michael Liroff, it's a progressive and occasionally profane take on the ideological battles at the heart of the Court's most important landmark cases and an irreverent tour of all the ways in which the law is shaped by politics.</p><p>Subscribe to our premium episodes & much more at fivefourpod.com/support</p><p>5-4 is a production of Prologue Projects.</p>
Recent Episodes
20 episodes2026 Mailbag: Is Any Of This Legal? [TEASER]
5-4 answers your questions about whether ICE agents can be prosecuted, why it’s worth knowing your rights, if the president can cancel the midterms and…whether there’s revolutionary potential in tax evasion. As always, this is not legal advice™. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Authoritarian Creep(s) [TEASER]
The Trump administration has moved at breakneck speed to suppress free speech, mass deport hundreds of individuals without due process, and target judges who dare cross him – moves straight out of an authoritarian playbook.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Copaganda with Alec Karakatsanis [TEASER]
Crime rates are at historic lows, yet year after year, people say that they feel unsafe and believe crime is rising. You can thank the news media with help from corporations and law enforcement narratives. We speak with civil rights lawyer Alec Karakatsanis about his new book, Copaganda: How Police and the Media Manipulate Our News.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Department of Homeland Security v. Thuraissigiam
*** An earlier version of this episode incorrectly referred to the asylum officers who conduct credible fear interviews as border patrol agents. ***If the government is acting all authoritarian-y, detaining you in violation of your rights, there’s a basic assumption in the Constitution that you can use “The Great Writ” of habeas corpus to challenge that unlawful behavior. But Samuel Alito would like to remind you what happens when you ASS U ME. Something something immigrants, something something you’re wrong. So yeah, Constitution HUMILIATED.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Department of State v. AIDS Vaccine Advocacy Coalition
Feels like we should be able to collectively wrestle with the problems of a system by which 14 million people will die in the next five years because one man can decide to withhold a bunch of money that Congress said needed to be spent, but unfortunately, because of the law, and what the law says, no one can sue about it. Good luck with figuring this one out.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Department of State v. Muñoz
Finally, the Supreme Court gets to live its dream: being xenophobic and homophobic at the same time.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Fire at Will: Trump’s Illegal War in the Caribbean [TEASER]
These days, three degrees of separation from a drug dealer is all it takes to get you drone struck by the U.S. government in Venezuela. And look, maybe these extrajudicial killings aren’t exactly legal, but the bigger problem for all you sissy justice lovers out there is that this administration doesn’t care about the law. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Free Speech, Chilled to Perfection [TEASER]
Do you ever feel…like a plastic bag, drifting through the wind, wanting to start again? That’s understandable because battles over free speech and the First Amendment are raging right now, whether on the internet, on TV, in the workplace, or in the streets. But baby, you’re a firework. And the Trump administration can’t take that from you.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Free Speech Coalition, Inc. v. Paxton
Please have your driver's license, social security card, or any other highly personal private information ready to share if you wish to rub one out to online porn. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Garcetti v. Ceballos
The Supreme Court tramples upon your most sacred right: the right to complain about your co-workers.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier
The Supreme Court has been stripping away students' free speech rights for decades. They don't want you to think for yourself or speak your mind. You might end up making podcasts like this.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode and also lame! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Delgado
The fourth amendment protects against unlawful searches and seizures…unless, of course, the search is just a friendly survey from your local armed immigration officer! If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Lopez-Mendoza
I think we can all agree that the Constitution guarantees every individual certain unalienable rights–oh wait, sorry, getting a call. Right. Sorry. Okay. Yea. Got it. Hey, so I think we can all agree that immigration law is different from other laws, and the Constitution doesn’t really apply there.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Immigration Law in 2026: Fighting the Cruelty Machine
This week, Rhiannon and Michael talk to two immigration lawyers about what it’s like to practice under the second Trump administration, the unprecedented uncertainty their clients face, why habeas petitions are taking off, the freaks who become ICE lawyers and ICE judges, and why there’s actually…reasons to hope?? If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Introducing... Fiasco: Iran-Contra
New from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries: it's a new edition of Fiasco: Iran-Contra, widely available for the first time ever. New episodes of Fiasco release Mondays, available wherever you get your podcasts. Pushkin+ subscribers can listen to the full season of Iran-Contra, ad-free, now. Find Pushkin+ on the Fiasco show page in Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Jones v. North Carolina Prisoners' Labor Union
If the Supreme Court can take away constitutional rights from one minority group, it can do it to any of us. Yes, even podcasters. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Learning Resources Inc. v. Trump
Is the Supreme Court’s decision on tariffs a declaration of independence?? Only three columnists at the New York Times can say. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Mahmoud v. Taylor
Because the conservatives on the Supreme Court are lowkey homophobic, they have made it easier for parents of kids in public schools to opt out of topics that make them uncomfortable. LGBTQ books, no thank you— evolution, not for my kids.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
McCutcheon v. FEC
Presidential candidates raised more than $1.6 billion in the 2024 election cycle, but if you think flooding politics with money is bad then you don’t understand FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Thanks to this Supreme Court decision, that pesky problem of an individual donor not being able to give more than $117,000 to political campaigns because of stupid campaign finance laws has now been solved.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
2025-2026 Supreme Court Term Preview
You are getting very sleepy…you are getting very sleepy…HEY! Wake up. It may look like the slate of cases for this Supreme Court term doesn't have many fundamental constitutional rights hanging in the balance, but don’t be lulled into thinking any of this is low stakes. Voting rights, trans people in sports, the death penalty—they’re still on that legal fascism grind, down to every little gear and lever.If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.Our Sponsors:* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOURAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands