Sarz talks Global Success, Making Pop hits, and Cultural Ownership

I believe that I control my destiny. So I had to just look for ways to evolve in this space. So hence why I started making my own music, so I decided to do other things.

I've never received any residual income from Nigeria.

Oh, this artist you produced for, bought a flashy car, just bought this. And you can even afford, you know, to buy your next meal. First time traveling to America, just seem happy with, you know, day things. What did you see?

I was thrown in a studio session. First time I've got to probably see some of my idols. And they are sore, timberland, going crazy, making a beat with some other artists on their own. Those swiss beats in there.

There was one of them they liked, right?

And as I was playing it, he was like, oh, he's really feeling this.

I should turn it up, you know, to turn the volume up. I was maxed out, right? But I kept like, just making this seem like, oh my god, there's something faulty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's something wrong with this. But people forget that I'm being making music for a very long time.

That's too fresh. Fortunately, I would be 20 years in 2027.

“You either, or you think that's the only way you can be successful”

as a music producer. SARS, producer, architect of modern Afrobeats, from one dance to Mona Lisa, his sound has powered records that cross continents and reshape the global music conversation. With credit spanning, whisky, Bernaboy, Drake, and Thames,

SARS has helped redefine the rhythm of a generation. Billions of streams, Grammy-nominated collaboration, and the drum pattern in recognized in seconds. Quiet presence, woohoo impact. What's up, everybody? This is SARS,

and I just spoke some of my truth on Afrobeats intelligence. This episode is brought to you by Friends at Matteo. Be the standouts with Afrobeats intelligence presented by Okiy Africa. democratizing African music would join a camp. What's good? It's going to see you.

Why are you laughing? What are we talking about? No, it's not. It's just happy to be here.

“Oh, nice. I think the last time I ever did interview,”

it was in bouquet HQ's office. The last time I remember was, uh, I knew how something to do with me, you are. Some reason. But yes, it's been, if, if, for some years now. Yeah, and yeah, in those years,

you've, you've done a lot. You've changed where you are. I've tried physically. Yeah, professionally. Yeah. Yeah, if you've, fortunately, if extended, you've, you've compounded, and extended, because now you're DJ.

I literally just would say so, but that's where I work. I go into that later, but here, I'm in DJ now. Lemme allow you for the show, Chris. And, and it's interesting, because the last, I still remember a snippet of our conversation. The last time I ever did interview you, where you

started speaking, whether you spoke about how a producer finds long-lasting value, because the scene was changing then, and I think you mentioned, how much more can you produce for a lot of people without any form of ownership? Yeah, yeah, especially in Afrobeats, where so many things work against you.

If you're behind a music, for status, I've never received any residual income from Nigeria.

Ever, ever. So, for a long time, you're only as good as the advance you make from the song. Why, why is there been no residual income in Nigeria or from Nigeria?

“I don't know. I mean, I don't have all the answers, but that's how that's how it's been”

for the longest time. I mean, let's say we have co-song, we have these bodies, but nothing, you know. So, if it's maybe like a gatecaped or someone is doing something for you somewhere. So, how can you survive, you know, as a producer, you make a hit for an artist, and they pay you maybe a couple hundred thousand of mara. That wasn't enough like before. Before the song comes out,

because all you produce a hit, you should be like this, and like that, you should have this kind of amount

“of money, you should be able to pull this station and life should have changed. Yeah,”

financial power should have increased. Yeah, and that's not really the case. So, you have to like

find out always to make things work. And I, I don't believe that my destiny's tied around anyone else.

I believe that, you know, I control my destiny. So, I had to like just look for ways to evolve in this space. So, hence why I started making my own music, I started only music, science is what I think. I think that, don't just go to the right from the jump, you know, with I think that Jesus is an ownership model. Yeah, I think that in Afrobe space, maybe not now, but it starts in then in the early mid 2000s. You either have music of your own, featuring people

“or you sign artists and have a record label and go through that from I think that's the only”

way you can be successful as a music producer. Any other way, if you're just producing from one person to the other and just waiting for advances, you're just living from hand to mouth, pretty much. Yeah, that's my own point of view because some people might say, oh, that's not really true. Well, you know, to a large extent have experienced this and I think from my own point of view, that's really true. So, don't just about it's rights from the jump where he started, you know,

more hits with your badge, there's ownership there. So, you know, the image, it's a ton of money and for other people like cost that were just producing one person to the other, you know, it was really a struggle and yes, so things had to change. But the back, it's a bit of a a freelancing. It's a bit of like, from gig to gig, song to song. Yeah, yeah. So, and we do pots can you really be like, you can be hot for a while, but you know, sometimes

we human beings will always want, you know, what's next? What's new, even with fashion sometimes,

you might like a brand, right? And this other brand as hot and new comes out doesn't mean that this brand is not creating, you know, pieces that you love, but you just want something that you want to change. So, how has can you really be before someone else, you know, takes away the scene and they're like, you know, eating off your share of your national gig. But even even the, even the variables involved in advancing yourself, you might have a million bangers spread all

around the city. And you don't move forward if the songs don't come out. That's another thing,

that's another thing. You know, you'd spend your 90 day producing, like you said, a million

bangers were different artists. If they don't put it out, you're not getting paid for it. And there's

“also no procedure or income, you know. So, really how hard can you work before you crash out, right?”

And well, yeah, well, even just talking about the creative aspect of this, there's also like the mental aspects where all of this is happening. And you're just not mentally stable enough to accept the reality of the situation, right? Like, so you kind of even create because, oh, this artist you produced for, just bought a flashy car, just bought this. And you kind of would afford, you know, to buy your next meal or digger of say not, you equally worked on

that track as much as they did. I personally believe that you produced that on an artist, you know, share, you know, equally the creative input that's making this song. So, why is one person, not, you know, one person is taking already financial benefit from that project. And you're just in the back burner, you know, not getting anything. Yeah. But I think that's just unique to music. Nineteer, maybe Africa is the whole, because since the globalization of Afro beats, you know,

we get to research for incomes everywhere outside the shores of Africa, which makes it, you know,

There's sustainability. It took, it took a long time for me to stay afloat. So, just with like, hold on now, hold on, hold on, hold on. It's to add to go here. I'm so happy that, you know, this is here now and I'm still in the conversation, beautiful. What did, what was the major thing, globalization changed in how you approached music? Was the major shift in

“how you conducted yourself, conducted your business, and I pushed like creativity itself?”

That really, what, what really changed everything for me? First time traveling to America,

just seemed happy with, you know, day things. It made me realize that there is really no room for me, the creativity. What did you see? Excellence, excellence in everything that they do, they make sure it's right. They don't sleep. And tell something I was in use to, I was in use to that clockwork. Because just two, four, seven. Well, not necessarily two, four, seven, but they worked a lot and it was a lot of professionals. People that really knew what they were doing. I'm not just

manage it now. I really, I really hate that culture, you know, in the Nigerian space. Like,

we celebrate, we do a crazy so much and it annoys me. There's the others, we so much. But they really changed my mindset that, you know, if you're going to compete on a global level,

“you have to step things up, you know, you can just be a local champion. You're, you're sound,”

you're a choice of a choice of sound, kind of music you listen to, your work ethic, you just, you need to do better. It also opened my mind to collaboration, but because before then, everyone felt like doing things by yourself is the way, you know, collaborating, or that, on that person takes a way from your creative genius. Like, what do you mean? I produce this song with this person or, you know, where 10 people on the track, then, you know, no one did that.

So that really opened my mind to collaborating more, because before then I used to do everything

“myself, I just didn't think that's, you know, doing collaboration and a track with someone else”

is the right thing to do. So it really, it really, it really opened my mind, you know, to how things work there. Yeah. Yeah, that collaboration thing. Before globalization, he thought it was something. Yeah, how did someone write for you? You got punished for, for having creative help. Yeah, exactly. And a lot of the songs that we celebrate a lot of, like, a bigger song in the world, you know, are done by a bunch of people coming together, right here. And, and when globalization happened,

of course, your songs are very, we're very instrumental in allowing that happen. One dance. There's one dance. Conclusor. Conclusor. Conclusor. Yeah. Your songs are very instrumental. And going into a new market in the US culture shock creative shock, professional, professional shock. Yeah, seeing that. Yeah, there's another level to how this can be. Did you take you a while to settle in? Yes, it took me a while and what did I set the

process look like? So, having to work internationally. So, I'll give you this,

something I experienced first time in America. I was thrown in a studio session by a very, very, very,

very big artists, producer, label exec. And I get in there, you know, feeling very nervous, right? Of course, either first time of great surprises, see some of my idols. And I get in there. And I see another deception saying I was looking for this NR person. And while I was waiting,

timberland going crazy, making me beat with some other artists. And I was like, well, so I was just

intrigued. First I've seen them. I was trying to keep. Then some security came with like,

“oh, what was I doing? And I was like, oh, sorry, anyway. I remember going off stage. I was”

around that room. Those three beats in there. Just different producers. And we found a room where it was myself and one other producer. And instead we, you know, made a set up in that room. And this first producer was playing like some track beats when the ARNR came. And they said they were looking for some, you know, afro-house sound in type of stuff. I remember playing some tracks. And there was one of them they liked. Right. And as I was playing it, he was like, oh, he's really

feeling this. I should turn it up. You know, it's turned it volume up. And I was maxed out. Right.

It was, it was, it was, it was all of it. It was the loudest, right? By a kept like, just making it seem like, oh, my god, there's something false. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's something wrong with this blah blah blah. But in that moment, I knew like, yeah, you got to step up. You got to step the shit up. And the volume was your loudest. Yeah, of course. Like, in that time, when they send you beats, they sound like master already. Right. And with us,

it only sounds master when he's a master. When the song is for just, right? So I was like, now I need to learn industry standard processes and how to like just, you know, make my, make my, my music loud, make it sound as good as possible. So I just got obsessed with that. And I just like, you know, practicing and practicing and practicing until I got to a comfortable level where I'm like, okay, yes, I can play this anywhere anytime. And this sounds great. Yeah, that took

it well. But that experience opened my mind, you know, to that. Yeah, you know, before then, we used to make songs, what, sometimes we don't even mix it with them. We don't mix a master. You just send the song before the artist climbs, playing it, just lick it. Exactly. Like the, the demos that they record, yep, you know, they just leave just like that just becomes a thing. Yeah. So some some producers and artists would tell you with their chest that they don't mix and

master their music. All right. Yeah. So there's so much that has changed now from people not mix a national song. So people paying thousands of dollars to mix a song. Yeah. All right. So we're talking about Dolby at most. Los less. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So so we've come, we've come a long way. I still don't think we're a day yet, but we've definitely come a long way. And having a bit more certainty about your business with globalization, um, it became more lucrative. You know,

you're doing a lot more work outside or work that was, even the ones that were Africa facing

“came to foreign vehicles. What did that do for your, for how you approached music scene?”

Now that yes, you could as a person, you could take a breather now instead of instead of, you know, wondering what was the meaning fight of light mode? You could take a breather now. What does that do to creativity? That's certainty of resources? Um, for me personally, it's even how to take a breather

because my brain never tones off. All right. Music and life for me is so intertwined. That's

so hard to separate. Um, anytime I have downtime, I feel like one by doing well as all by doing well. If I need to be doing something and it's so hard to, you know, shut that off. After, like, maybe because, um, I started really early. People forget that I've been making music for a very long time. That's refreshingly out be 20 years and 20, 27. Right. That's a very long time of you doing something only one thing in life. So it's, it's hard

for me to take a breather. But I do understand what you're saying that, you know, now you don't have to

“just think about the next thing you have to do to be able to like, you know, eat or afford. You don't have”

survival. Yeah, down your craft. Yeah, which, which is, which is great. Which, you know, this is this is a point. I think every creative should get to because I think creativity

but when you find a intersection between creativity and what you need to do to survive,

“which a lot of us, especially here, Africa, yeah, find ourselves in, you start to strain that”

passion. It's that's a strain, that's creativity. And it messes with your head because the life that you desire, you're, once, once you're not getting the results of the life that you desire from the thing that you love, you start to hate the thing you love. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's very tricky. You know, sometimes they'll tell you do what you love, so that it doesn't feel like you're working in your life. But no one tells you about the mental gymnastics that

does to you. When what is that thing, the way it asks you tells you what to do when that thing

does not love you back. In that way. That's, it never doesn't love you back. You only think it doesn't

love you back because you're not getting the desired results from it. If you are doing it as a passion, it will always love you because you, you know, you do, there's no expectation. Yeah. Right. You can create. You don't care if someone says, uh, what's this? Not for me. I don't like it. Or what rubbish is this? Right. So you don't care about that. You, you might not even put it out for people to critique or anything. You'll just happy doing it. The same way I was happy

finding music production from the, for the first time, creating, making 10 to 15 beats every

day. That's all I wanted to do. All right. But in a moment, I said, I put some out and some people

“like, man, this is rubbish. It's the worst thing I've heard from. So as, then it triggers something.”

All right. Because you're putting that out, not just because you love it, but because you love it and also wants it to find your life. Right. Because that's what you do for work. Right. When it's not not working for a work, it becomes a mental problem. You know, thinking, what can I do? What does can I do? But if it was just pure passion, you know, you have a job you're doing, but you love to paint on the side and your house is just a gallery. It's like then it's your, it's your

safe space. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I see it. But doing something, doing something for 18 years. That's a long time. It is, it's a long time. How do you, how do you

“rejuvenate your mind when you've done one thing for 18 years? I know the variables were changed”

or if you were the variables constantly changed. Yeah. And the levels, of course, it's revised. But it's the same thing. I have so much of it in me. There's so much I want to do. There's so many ideas I want to try. So many ways I want to express myself. I've also been able to build the discipline for when, 40 times I wake up on like, all right. Because you don't, after doing this for a long time, you don't wake up feeling passionate, especially like what we just said

earlier about like, you know, being in that intersection, you don't wake up. Passionate feeling like, oh, you know, today I want to create, not as much as you used to do, like, you know, years down on the line. The flames are a bit tempered. Even if it's there, it's tempered by experiences. By experiences that, you know, you've, you've, you've kind of strangled it, right? Because you want this to do XYZ for you. And no, every time it's not going to work every time times, it works,

you know, you're happy. The flame is burning and everything times it don't work. I just like, or what's going on. But this, I just have so much of this in me. And when I'm not doing music, I, I, it feels like, sometimes I may not have, you know, direction. So music is, is really purposeful for me, like, your life's uncle. Yeah, I really, I really, really love to do music. Yeah. But sound itself. Why did you choose sound of all the ways, or did it find you,

what do you think, put this post due to it? So when I started listening to music, that I choose to listen to, not just passively, I noticed that I did not care for lyrics. I was driven by beats. All right. This is why in most of my interviews, I'll tell you, like, oh,

I used to be, um, no, I used to be, but I was always inspired by Timberland, Dr. Dr. Farrell.

Those were the people that made me choose a song to listen to. Like, when I say produce by Timberland, I already know what to expect, right? And I just want to listen to that. It's like, on my 20th, 30th listen, and enough that's a care. What did this person say on this song? Right? I'm not, I know a lot of people are more like what's the same on the song, the love lyrics.

Even, even till dates, when I'm working with artists, you know, I don't really care for lyrics.

I care about melodies, and I care about the beats. It's later on. Why, why, why is that,

“why is that more important for you? It's, it's, it's, um, I think this is already in my DNA,”

is in my genetic couldn. That this is how I am the same way the, you know, there are people that can enroll their tongues and the people that can't. Yeah, I can. I'm one of those people that loves

beats and sounds and it for music, I'm not lyrics. So when I got the opportunity to make music,

obviously, I tell them more to making beats. That's just, that's just how it is. And making this beats. What was your, when you started, what was your approach? What were you trying to do when you made beats? What was driving you then? How did you see sound then? You know, when I, when I, when I started, I started, I started trying to do what Timberland would do.

“Right, that's how I started. So, I would even say, by heart, a more hip-hop that everything goes,”

that's how I started like beats. That's, that's the music I grew up listening to. Right. And if for some reason, I found myself clicked up with, maybe the likes of, they need to see, the scenes, the storm records out of the hip-hop producer. Like my trajectory would have been very different. Right. But you see that mix with all these yourbubboys, your revenues, to dice that green, all those guys. I mean, they used to mock me every time. I can't speak

about believing because of my blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think that mix made me like dig deeper into Niger and sounds and my own influence. So, I'm now like, hmm, how can I bring my flavor, which is, you know, hip-hop, you know, a hint of Timberland here and there and mix that with what is guys have done. Because this guy's going to be playing WCU, I named him a shout. They'll be playing

“you about songs. So, I'm like, how can I mix this to? And how did you find the intersection?”

I made brilliant for a suit. Of course you are. Of course you are. Of course you are. Well, your, the way you use your base, your drums and your kicks. I think it's, it's come to define you. Yes, um, in this space, I don't think anyone, you can recognize the size drums. Like, and that's very unique to me. And I know how to like bring different things together, different worlds together, and make it authentic and make it something. I think that's one of my strongest

Happiness has some pop, some on a piano, some afro beats, some funk. Yeah. But it sounds like

his own thing. It doesn't just sound like, well, you just brought, thanks to get it, it doesn't work. I brought them together and it works in an authentic way that can live on its own. Yeah. So it's just something I know how to do. And I also enjoy doing that. When it comes to music, I love to figure things out. You know, if people are having challenges during it, that's where that's where I want to be because I know figure it out. I just believe in myself so much. And when the results come out

and you, and you're rather, that's the kind of behavior that makes you a pioneer. Yeah, because figuring that out means your birthing new things. Yeah, um, yeah, if you, in, in the, in the producer community space, loving inspired so many people. Yeah.

All right. Um, um, a lot of producers are always looking forward to what I'm going to do next

because I just feel like, oh, this guy's going to come up with something that might inspire me to do something else. And I've seen that happen many times in, in, in this kind of my career, you know, people always just say, hmm, that's really nice. You know, I'm going to tap into this. And sometimes they tap into it and make it their own and run away with that as well, which is great. That I think

“that's what I'm here for inspire people. If you can't figure it out, don't worry. I'll figure it out”

for you and run with it. Uh, but with this, this, all the record of your album protects us at all

costs. Brilliant album. Thank you. Well done. Well done. Uh, I told you my best is still mad, myself. Yeah. You said, sir. Yeah. Yeah. I really love that song. It's brilliant. And so on a record like getting paid here, that does that. It's still still busy or, uh, you know, format of multiple words, multiple worlds. But when you bring those worlds, those worlds together, what then makes it sweet? What's the, how do you line out the sweetness? Um, that's come from decision making over time.

“Okay. Right. Uh, that's what mastery is. Yes, you know,”

choices over time. And I've just been able to learn my formats. It's not something I can't tell you. It was at this point that I did this, what is when I did that. But decisions you make every day has just made you know, okay. If I have this, I know what to do with this. I know how to bring this together and bring that together to a sound, you know, unique. You know, it's the same way, you know, you're dressing up to go out,

you're trying different outfits. That's one you try. I just like, ah, yeah, that's combination works. This, this, this works. Like, you know, it's just pleasing to the eyes. It's pleasing to my ears. Um, my, my brain, you know, gives it an order for approval. Um, yeah, that's, that's the best where I can explain it. And how, how does that come up against, it's been successful? Uh, well, how does that come up against audience behavior? That goes back to. And as much as

everything we're spoken about, you know, is our truths. Music is still very, very relative. It's, um, it's still heavily opinion based. So check it. Yeah,

“subjective. It's, um, um, even if you're, yeah, master level, are you do something?”

There's still someone in the world that's going to say no, skip. I don't like this, right? I want you guys to talk about that, you know, and it goes back to the point that if you're in that

person that you don't care. But, but you can't say, you can't say, um, you know, put it in our

“work, just for the sake of work. Um, I've been putting out music, just for the sake of music.”

If you're, if you find yourself in the intersection, because how people consume it, you know, would affect you some way, somehow. Because you're doing like you're putting all of it, putting out of this work to put out music that you love, but also you wanted to do well. And if people are not, you know, receiving it, well, hey, it's like, you know, all of that work has gone to gone through waste. What are the guarantees in that relationship? You tell me.

Yeah, you tell me, because it's, you know, it's understanding that that's guarantee knowing that some people, people would swear or rather have hung with creatives, or have worked with creatives, that seem to have the pulse. They can twist it in multiple ways.

“That's what longevity is now. Yes, so I'm staying in. This is constantly making the right choice.”

Yes, and, you know, this is a lot of things. This is also a thing that's where perception comes simply. All right, you can, or I guess, markets and if you know how to markets or products, you know, you can make it seem like the next best thing, right, and give people a reason why they should have it. And if you've done that, if you've been successful time, after time, after time, you know, this is trust has been built where, you know, if you put out music,

at least you get first listen years, right? People would care enough to even check you out,

see if it's their thing or not. Sometimes that's all you need, you know, for people to even listen, and they be like, oh, I like this. You know, I listen to my library, or I don't like this enough for me, maybe next time. But that's because you built, you know, consistently, that's a, you make great music, right? How you got there might be just putting out great music, you know, there's also the lock factor. You know, it's, it's very layered. It's, I don't think,

I don't think that is just, you know, one thing. You know, I've seen people change the perception of his song, you know, with PR and influencing and everything, because you hear at least some

commonly hear the first time. You know, no, I don't care about this. Then you see someone else,

you know, saying, man, this is the best song, and they're dancing and moving to it. And you're like, why is this person moving to this song? This song is not that great. And you listen again, and like, I still don't like it. And you see more people do it. You listen to it, you still don't like it. For what time you listen, you're like, hmm, okay, if I'm not going to play it, but if it comes on on my playlist or comes on on shuffle, find our letter play. And then

your perception is, you know, so we change, right? And a lot of songs are like that. So there's a lot that's, you know, comes to play. I don't think this. I don't think we can explain. That's because there's very late. There's so many things, you know, involved. So no guarantees, then, even that's, even that's whatever level you are at. They're no guarantees that this, then what's, how guarantees, guarantees at what's because for every artist's

“guarantees of success, because for every, for every artist, you know, success is relative. For”

example, for if an artist has had a global undeniable smash, it top 20 billboard hits, right? If you drop on other songs, that is a smash, it's a cup smash, but it doesn't hit top 100, right? People say it's a flop, fall off. Yeah. Do you go up there? So flop, yeah. So it's, it's very

the more pressure puts on you to even outperform those, because that's what people, you know,

“call success for you. Meanwhile, if someone else drops a song and he hits 89 on the billboard,”

that might be their biggest thing, you know, and everybody will champion that. Oh my god, he did so well. Probably they'll say, even did better than you, that were higher up on billboard, because they expect more from you based on, you know, the level of success you've attained previously.

So it's very relative, depending on where you're at in your career. So the, any of that

pressure, self-inflicted for the most part, it's not really self-inflicted. People be talking, you, you, you, you are one of those people. Everybody has an agenda. Yeah, I don't have an agenda. Everybody, everybody have an agenda. I, you, I want those people that would say X, Y, Z, about certain people, and yeah, I, and I'll say this self-inflicted. What are human beings here? Like,

a lot of times, you know, all these artists, they see all these things, and yeah, affects them.

The same with someone would say something about you, I knew I affects you. What's, I want to self-inflicted myself. Yeah, that's a drink. What's, agenda most, agenda like this, if, okay,

“you care for some, no, okay, cool. Well, that's because you check comments. What does that mean?”

If you don't check comments, if you only check the numbers, you know, you have your dashboard, if you only read dashboards, you're fine. Bro, we're human beings. You check comments. You check comments. I don't even need to know you, if you kind of like to me, I say you don't, bro, you do. You post something, really? That's a lie. Because sometimes you're curious, you post something, and you check comments, and see where it's swaying to, if it's swaying your way or not, right? And, and social media now,

in 2021, especially after Elon has done what he's doing. It's not even about what you're doing. It's about their making money. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Sure. So, but, you know, in that space of their making money, it might be saying hard for things. That's actually my change, your change, your mental temperature. Oh, no. Yeah, I admit, in the past, I have, in the past, in the past, in the past, in the past. Now, I've been more light to situations,

but the light is he or POV. All right. Which is to my flashlight? Yeah, I've been my light. Why I'd be your friend, no, friend of. Yeah. And with, with sustainability and ownership, how, how is ownership having your own song? How did I impact your career? And how do you know,

“if you make a lot for a lot of people? How do you know what to keep for yourself?”

That's the pitfall, generally for producer albums or crowd-sost albums. That's usually the pitfall. Like I said, it's snowing one size fits, so, you know, you just use, how did you know you were going to keep getting paid? How did I know I was going to keep it? Yeah. Because I really, really liked the song. And I think that I wanted to share that with the world, you know, no matter what, I just knew, like, I wanted to make that happen. Did you craft it as your

you just, you just know, man, you just know what you want to keep ownership, like you were saying,

“changes everything, because if you own a song, until you sell the song, go sell the cartload.”

You're making a money from that, too. It's great residual income, right? And you want to be in that position where, you know, money is working for you, and at the end of the month, you just, yeah, and that's the thing. You know, maybe some people don't even think that long. You're not even thinking, like, you know, this is great songs you're making.

20 years down the line, you know, some of my sample, that's, and that's something I just

be the biggest song. And you're just, they're making seven figures, you know, every quarter, from just sits and doing nothing, right? Like, you don't know who you're inspiring, you don't know who's going to listen to your catalog somewhere down the line. So this is why they say, you know, ownership is important, only catalogs, but you just, you also need to know how to like, work it. Whereas because, in ways that, you know, because some people talk about ownership,

and they're like, oh, they swear by it. But if you own music, music is just, you know, live in a room.

It's not making nothing, you know, it's zero. So knowing how to work, knowing people to work with, knowing the licensing companies to work with, that they can, you know, make your catalog

“for people in profitable here. It's also as important as owning a catalog, right?”

Yeah, because people who have catalogs that doesn't look like catalogs, they're just there. Yeah, they're just, yeah, they're just there. Yeah. Whereas there's some people that are making millions every year. Every year, from from catalogs, they, from music that made in the '70s, in the '80s. You know, of course that is, you know, '70s, so now it's 50 years, 50 years later, you're still making millions every year. So that's the, that's the, that's the

beautiful thing about music and ownership. And I think why it's important, especially in the side of the world, until we figure out our multitude of problems. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure if you're a problem, because there's so many things. Yeah.

“But why I think is the most important type of music, I think the economic problem.”

I think if we have more buying power. Yeah. All right, a little things will change. You know, right now it's like, as an old-time learning is affecting everything. When you think of that's a December, doesn't look like it. I mean, this is just, just one period in the year. Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's just one month of the year. Yeah, when the month is like three weeks in the year. And if everyone has to save up just to be able

to afford to see the, you know, the musicians they love in December, that's crazy. That's crazy. We should be able to be here, make music for here, tour here, and in the lifestyle that we desire here. Yeah, but it's not just the music. You know, it's, it's layered. There's so many things. It's the government, the people, the economy, it's the things that I already like ingrained in nostalgia. We have to learn. So a lot of work. To be honest, I don't have faith.

I lost my faith in 2020. Yeah, I held on to it. Yeah. Yeah, the fact that we still don't have the proper venue. That kind of accommodates the traffic that Afroweeds command now. Still is crazy. Yeah. Well, even if even if we have a venue, just still a logistics problem

the government sets up and decides to do something about it. So it's like,

I think that sometimes we've helped ourselves enough to the points where

“what else can we do? We need, we need our sector to sit up. That's how I see it. That's how I see it.”

Yeah, music is, I was drawing it out on my board the other day, I was looking for solutions. And every time, every time you think of a solution to a problem, I think for a structural problem, that it was music, you'd have to pull in another different industry or sector in, for example,

transportation now. We need labor for that. Yeah. Security. Of course, we need the police for that.

And then when you talk about, even things like, even macroeconomic forces, like the, I don't know if that is the, what the price of the mayor, or the rate of the value of the mayor,

“itself. Yeah. Yeah, that's why, that's why, you know, things are so expensive now, you know,”

not things things, but we didn't enjoy it, bubble. I feel we've been enjoying the bubble. Up on the 222, 223 golden years. Yeah. We didn't enjoy that bubble. Yeah. Well, I don't, it's not just Afrobeats, you know, I think black music in general. So I declare. But, I mean, trust us to make it about Afrobeats. Yeah, because that's not a piece of black, that's why. Yeah. I guess, I guess, so yes, for you, it's not just us. I haven't think that, I just lost my thoughts of this is often

there's not just us, there's just Afrobeats. No, no, no. I like, but it will come back to me. It will come

back to me. But we've always, we've always are preted in silos. I think that's one of the things

that I'll have able thus so much. We don't, even in music, we don't think of the collective. So when we talk about doing, do Afrobeats think of a collective in anything. Let's not make this about music. Do we? No, we don't. Yeah, it's a cultural. Yeah, it's cultural. And so you just wait, what would you say that stems from? I think it stems from survival. Sometimes I think of resources. On a general level, it stems from a lack of resources. Because

the lack of resources means a lot of people are focused on survival. And when you focus on survival, you're focused for you and yours, because you don't even have enough to split. And even even the people who have been truly moved past that game, they still, you're still left with that mentality,

“because that's how you got it. So you had to find people our collective canvases. And even in spaces”

where or times when the collective have benefited from something, it has only, it has mostly come from an individual figuring out something that works for themselves. And then everybody has just applying it. Like a laba, for example. Okay, so would you say where the only one strengths of survival? You're the poorest. Do you think that? No, no, not that. I mean, sometimes I level the survival, as it's like the lowest wrong of it. I mean, I mean, I mean, I just got it with the largest

garden of poor people in the world. I don't have the facts, but what about India? Yeah, they have the own problems. So that's why that's why, you know, as much, but I see that, especially in that's where I see that they're come together more, you know, like even in neighborhoods where they live, they're all live in that area, you know, feel like this is a sense of community, while ours only feels like a sense of community because of all chasing the same thing.

So we see ourselves alone, you know, I'm like, my brother, my brother, my brother, my brother, but we're all going solo. Yeah, we're colleagues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're all colleagues. Yeah, I guess

think, we just about like Afro beats, what needs to be done, what knots. I just think is deeper than that.

“And I think that once we become, you know, a better version of ourselves as people, you know,”

maybe very exposure, education, poverty, eradication, things like that. Then we'll start to see things like all human things. Yeah, it was that to see things. And then maybe we was that having solutions, you know, so to the problems. Like, because we're trying, man, we're trying, like, from a demographic that was given little or nothing to figure this out, look how far we've

come. Yes, we did. Yeah, we've come. We've really, we've really tried, we've really tried ourselves.

And we've been able to change the narrative of what it is to be an Nigerian in the world. Now it's cool. Yeah. We made it cool. Yeah. And that's because we followed our passion and just, you know, did our best and push that, push that, you know, to the world. Here. That's, yeah. Yeah. So this is our Europe. Okay. Yeah. That's, yeah. That's,

“you should learn to give ourselves flowers for that. Yeah. We shared, it wasn't easy.”

Yeah. It wasn't, I mean, mistakes are being made, but I don't even think that. You know, when to say, um, we're allowed for any of those into Afrovites, what was the adoption? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. What was the adoption? What was supposed to do? Right? Um, yeah, because it wasn't funny before. Yeah. So, yeah. Like, it wasn't. We've probably to the world. We didn't have an industry.

Like, I was very, quite dirty. As a producer, you make a song that is plain all over Nigeria. That's a smash. That alone is enough for you to be set up for life. But no, you have nothing. And all you're hoping for is that the artists that you produce a song for, that's some way somewhere down the line. Something touches his hearts. And it's like, ah, I'm a producer. I produce a song for me. Okay. Take this small camera. Make a use it.

It's sea fruits. That's crazy to me. All right. Because I just think that that shouldn't be a conversation to be had. We've both done our work. It's successful. The music should be working for us. And we should both be happy. Right? Yeah. And until, after we started the world, that was, that was, that was, there was no, there was no, there was no hope of change. You know, especially, you know, from my point of view of people behind the music. Because people

front of the music, at least there was still saying shows. They're still going here and they're moving around, you know, you could, we could see evidence that, you know, music is as lucrative, right? For people behind the music, Jesus Christ, Burr, yeah. So, but you, you've, you've, beyond even, like, making genre altering records. You've also been, you've also come in front of the stage.

You've, you're in front of camera now, you're front facing. And because I was always said,

I don't like camera that, look at you. Yeah, but exactly what I said, I think you're a body. You guys evolve, right? I mean, yeah. Yeah, that was not that was really bad. Yeah, and though, having to put in all the work. And then, yeah. And I think that every, you know, to stay,

“to stay fresh, to stay relevant, you have to keep evolving, have to try new things, you know,”

and I find you think that I'm comfortable expressing, right? And just run with it. It's not like

I was on like, other people, I was already popular before I took on this journey. So, any time, I wanted to try out something like, you know, DJ somewhere. I didn't want people to know that

either I DJing there because I wasn't, you know, confident enough yet. That will never be the

case because the hype might be like, ladies and gentlemen, now, I know, I know, I know some of people who carry their cameras and I'm just like, hey, how about with the DJ though? Maybe I've come in to you. Yeah. So, so I had to like, walk around that. So, from that to, selling out my first show in London or that is crazy or done. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy that people like buying hard tickets, you know, to come see it. It's crazy like that journey. You know,

just just follow through, just stay consistent and eventually it will make sense. And I'm so glad

that I'm DJing now because on another way for me to just even express myself, express myself in

“ways that I can't, you know, produce music, right? Yeah. So, but that's what you have to do now,”

you guys, you have to evolve. Working out for me has built so much discipline. It's not just about looking your best. It's also about showing up when you don't feel like it's and I'm able to put that in other pillars of my life. This is why sometimes when I don't even feel like producing, I could just stand up and go. And if sometimes I'm glad I went because that's where you meet someone, and you guys have an unexpected collaboration and, you know, things just go crazy. So,

there's that and I also want to live a healthy and fun life, right? You know, older you get the more you have to pay attention to these things and take care of yourself. Yeah, all my colleagues, I tell them, I had to dream during that day. I saw Brinjata.

“I knew I just took it. And I was telling them, like, "Oh, you should be called Digo to Jim." I said,”

"I don't know." And I was like, "If you come to the gym, like, if you need better, I'll try to convince him." I didn't know the way it was looking at me. It was just like, "God, they got no yoga situations." But last night, I tell them, "Well, Digo tell you, Digo, which one's teach for your life?" You define yourself. You define yourself. Yeah, you're forced to make that decision. Yeah. Which sometimes is too late. True. Yeah. True. I've been in the gym for two years now.

Yeah. Roddum. Well, thank you. Thank you. It's something that I started off as a long distance right now. Over there, you just see medals. That is on my running medals. Crazy. Yeah. So, myathons, all of that. Yeah, that's nothing. Yeah, that was my, that was my best. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed how I disobeyed mine disappears from body. And so, body has just goals. That's what happens when you're on very long distances. But with the gym, but that's there having injuries.

And I also looked in the mirror one day and I'm like, "I want to look like when I want to have a slothy waist." I don't know how to keep up with it. And then, yeah, I don't have a slothy waist. And I go into the gym and I love it became an obsession for me. I love it so much. That's now it's adult play for me. It's like going to your playground, even this morning before you go ahead, I spent three hours at the gym. That's crazy.

Or are you doing for three hours? That's around five to seven k-first. That's,

yeah, I don't have to wait for 20 minutes to cool down. Do you want some advice? Well, that's counterproductive to wait, lift and you want to wait, lift first before you run.

“And the days you wait, lifts. Depending on your goals, but I think you should train first,”

then run. Well, I'll try. Because that way, you'll be able to like fatigue your muscles

It means different. I mean, I speed around 5k. I speed, I sprint at 5k yesterday.

“And then I meet that was done. 20 minutes have your bath, switch clothes. And then I did full leg day.”

And today I'm looking around. So yeah, I enjoyed so much. And to see someone use it for marketing directly in the way that you utilize it. But you took off all your shirt. Am I put a shirt on? I wouldn't say I used it for marketing. I didn't use it for marketing.

He stopped wearing shirts. Yeah, boys, not marketing. Boy, you knew it helped. Tell me you didn't

know that I didn't know it helped. That it helped your marketing for, for put that size. It was even your album cover now. Oh, God. I mean, yes. I'm saying yes, it's my album cover. It's my album cover. Like what's wrong with me? No, we're not sure as long. Yeah, it's been a minute. I inflated to you. Fair enough. Fair enough. Thank you. Fair enough. That was beautiful to see that. Yeah, it's it's a beautiful thing to see. What's your body can do?

Well, just before we go, thank you. Just before we go. In, you know, 18 years of leading from the front. 18 years non-stop across multiple areas, across different industry shifts and real alignment. Globalization came and still leading from the front.

“How do you how do you mark time? How do you mark these shifts and know what you have to do?”

Because longevity is apart from change. It's it's near me to decades of making a ton of decisions that have led you here. Yeah, so I kind of answered this earlier when I said find Euro voice in every time an era, friendy thinks you're comfortable in and double down. What did you double down when you started? When I started in that time, those nothings would do that to make music.

All right, you make music and it was really people spreading my gospel word of mouth. Yep. All right. And that was enough to get me in your room to set in people. Then, you know, Twitter came. People said talking and you know, I amplified you voices because you could just speak more. Then, you know, Instagram came. He used a video site coming. People said showing their processes. I know those things like things like changing. And now,

you know, we, we are in a creation era and an interest era where sometimes, you know, even speaking about things you're interested in would bring a flock of people to you. And so it's just that by expanding your niche now and not just, you know, staying in one place. Because as human beings like we're multidimensional, there's so many things that we love to do, you know, for you, it might be collecting art, sharing the art you've collected,

might start something that will change your life forever. You just never know.

All right. So, with music, it's just really about finding your voice. So, like you said,

“oh, I'm using my body too. Yeah, I like how that's how that's, it's finding your voice. It's”

you know, DJing in front of people, you know, making content. It's, uh, given on an example.

put on gets in page. That reached so many people that I didn't even think it was ever good to go

“that far. And this was a process I could have ignored, right? But I just said, you know what,”

I don't even think people know how to sample this. People just like I played that. And I was like, you know, let me just share this. And I shared it. And yeah, it brought so many people in,

I'm like, oh, I didn't know. That's genius. That's it. So, it's just really finding your voice

in every time that you find yourself in, um, using AI as a tool. Yeah, both so, so I'm not for me. I'm not

“saying, um, um, do everything, you know, be authentic to yourself in every era. Find the things”

you're comfortable with. I know, you're just, you're genuinely interested. I genuinely interest.

It puts you, you're genuinely interested. Yeah, it puts you, you're genuinely interested. Like you never know.

Here, like, I'm very interested in fitness. I'm very interested in tech. Yeah. Music technology. There's some fashion, um, um, I'm not a big sports lesson. For so reason that I don't know, like, I don't care about sports much anymore. I used to watch basketball and football, both one day. Yeah, I'm a football head. I know. Make a make makes to martial arts too. That's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. I like combat sports. I love combat.

The art of combat. Yeah. Me, kickboxing and boxing. That's, that's a sport. Yeah. Well,

“you follow it now. Um, some fights, no, every fight. This Joshua. Yeah. What's that, Jake Paul?”

I mean, that's going to be entertaining for what's that to see? Yeah, because it's not going to be like the Jake Paul title. No, it's not. Yeah. I feel like Joshua will not come out if he, if he goes that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, thank you, brother. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for the work you've put into the space. And thank you for leading and for sharing us what it means, what it means to create and this market and find ways to make it work. Um, yeah, you've, you've

given us a lot of happiness. You've also, you exist in and even the works of your hand to directly contribute it to extending the lifespan of music, the lifespan of creators and even just infusing new creators into the space. So yeah, in that sense, thank you so much for it. And thank you for doing this once again. [Music]