Divorce Doesn't Ruin Kids, Conflict Does

Welcome back to After Bedtime. I am very excited for today's episode because it is really, really personal to me. We are having a guest expert on who specializes in co-parenting after separation and divorce. Something that I was right on the verge of and really found myself in the early stages of parenting, sitting with my husband and asking ourselves,

“should we separate? Is that best for our family and contemplating all the change that comes with it?”

So whether you are thinking about separating, you are in the middle of it, or you know somebody going through it, this episode is going to be incredibly helpful. We're going beyond just the high level of co-parenting. We are getting into the weeds of what it really means when you're holding it together for your kids. You're processing your own change as you try to help them through the change. You're in a whole new world of logistics and you're navigating

this brand new version of your family that you've never been through before. Well good news,

today we're joined by Gabriella Pomare, a family lawyer and co-parenting expert who lives in this space where law, emotion and real life just collide together. She's the founder of the collaborative co-parent and the author of the book, the collaborative co-parent, but what makes Gabriella special isn't just her legal expertise. That helps a lot, but she understands that co-parenting isn't about winning. It's not about being perfect or keeping it together at all costs.

It's about emotional leadership and communication when it's hard and protecting kids from adult conflict. Yes, even when you're hurting. Gabriella has a way of talking about separation that feels really honest and grounding and somehow lighter, partly because she herself has navigated this on top of helping families through it every single day in her career. So if this is something that you are navigating, this episode will help you feel grounded, confident, and so much lighter

walking out of it. So let's jump into it. Welcome to After Bedtime, where the house is finally

quiet, but the real noise begins. The thoughts, the questions, the wondering if you're doing any of this right. We're Kristen and Dina child behavior experts, moms, and co-founders of big little feelings. And we're not here to give you more pressure or perfect parenting energy. Nope, we're here to tell the truth. The unfiltered, beautiful, brutal truth about what it means to raise kids and re-raise ourselves in the process. Because parenting isn't just about sleep schedules and snack hacks,

it's about healing. It's about breaking cycles. It's about becoming the kind of adult you want your kids to grow up to be. This is the place where we say the quiet parts out loud and we're so glad that you're here. Gabriella, welcome to After Bedtime. We are super super excited to have you today. Thank you. I am so excited to be here. I've been looking forward to this chat so long.

“Yeah, me too. I'm really, really glad we're chatting today because this topic is so important.”

I know when you're going through a separation or a divorce, you are hurting. Like the parents are going through the hardest times of their life potentially while also showing up for their kids and helping them navigate change and feel safe and secure and loved. All the things we talk about here at Big Little Feelings and it just, it couldn't be harder in so many ways. I know that

I personally was really grappling with this when I had my second baby. My husband, I had a very

rough transition in the parenthood and we really found ourselves sitting there and saying to each other, is this the best for our family? Is staying together the right thing for you, for me, for our kids, and really starting to think about, okay, if we did separate and make this huge life change, what would it be like, what comes with it, how would we do it? And our story ended a little different

“where we ended up doing a ton of work and I think that moment for him was the moment he kind of”

bought into therapy and was like, let me give this one last shot. It really did, like I could feel in my heart. It's so heavy in so many ways and while changes hard for kids, at the same time, we know that living in an unhealthy toxic home environment is not good for that. So I'm really excited to hear everything. I know we're going to go over insights and tools that parents can use, but to kick

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you really hit the nail on the head and that is my story. I mean, I was pretty young. I was 30 when I separated and now divorced from my ex-husband and my son was one. So we were raising this little baby. I was going through a lot at home. My mom had a really big stroke. She lost her memory. She was in hospital for a year. So I felt like at that time, I was struggling because I was trying to raise this new little baby. I had a new mom. I have no idea what to

do. And I didn't have my mom helping me. And I think my ex-husband's struggle with that a bit too.

He had a lot going on. It was coded to the first one. So there was so many things happening in our lives.

And we had that conversation a lot. And I got to a point. I think four or five months into that struggle where we said, are we going to keep doing this? We've been living separately for a little

“bit. And we said, perhaps the best thing just is to make this more permanent. And it broke my heart.”

It really did because I do this for work. I'm a family lawyer. So I'm working with separated and divorcing families every day. And I see the impact that they can have on kids. And as you said, sometimes that can be really negative. But sometimes it can also be positive if it's for the right reasons. And if parents I think can grow up. And I hate to say it. But we do. We need to be the adults. We need to be the mature ones. And although our hearts are breaking and we are going through

so many emotions. It's a massive roller coaster. But we need to put that aside for our kids when we are parenting. So I made that decision because I said, I don't want him growing up in a household. And he was one where we are constantly in conflict. We were fighting. We were arguing. And so much social science tells us children suffer when they're in households with conflict. And that then goes into their future and how they parent. When they get married, how they go

into relationships and cope with conflict and adult emotions. And then how they parent. So that really was the basis for my decision right or wrong. And look five years later, it almost has been. And I still think it's the best one. But we are doing so much work every day to improve our quote parenting relationship. Because it might be a really good one day. And then something will happen. So things will change again. And we are back doing the hard work.

Yeah, 100% that makes so much sense. And so you are a lawyer who actually works in this exact field. I've been doing that for almost a think 10 to 11 years now. So I am doing divorce in separation every day. And most of it is high conflict. So I'm juggling these two hats of lawyer advice

and how I'm a mom. What do I do for my kid? And now I have a second kid. I live in a now blended

family of rape happening. And we've got a one year old girl. So there are a lot of things

“we're navigating in this house. Yeah, yeah, you really are. And I think you're exactly right where”

it's so easy for it to become high conflict. Because I think by the time you've made this choice to make this big change to separate, to get divorced, things have built up usually by that point so much. There's resentment, there's anger. You're going through your own sadness, the grief of it. I mean, there is so much that comes with it. Yeah, it is life changing. And the way I often talk about it is, it doesn't stop. And you start to miss your life. And I think you start to

second guess yourself right? Because you say, when you wake up and where is this person next to me,

I imagine this incredible life would be living together the Christmas's, the whole of days,

the big family. And then you're in your own. And you're not having that, at least not at that point. So I think you're really struggling with this new life. Finding yourself again, you're purpose, you're journey, what it is, you're supposed to do in this thing we call life. But you also have to parent and show up. So how do you juggle your own emotions and what's happening for you with parenting? And I think that's where this real struggle comes in, this identity crisis. And there's almost

inability to cope here and well. Because there's this almost imbalance of needing to look after yourself, but also look after your child or children. Yeah, absolutely. And can you share more to

“about the identity crisis part? Yeah, I think that that is so crucial because I genuinely believe”

that you can't cope parent or even really parent well. Until you found yourself again, or really, I think the better word to use is healed. Because there really is a whole healing process, post separation. You were finding yourself again. You were saying, okay, I'm no longer in this family dynamic. I still have a family. It may look very differently. But what I try to tell parents is take back that control. You have the power to recreate what your family looks like. And I hate

when people talk about the broken family. You're divorced now. So your kid comes from a broken family. No, no, we have the power to say, this is what our family now looks like. And we can put aside that conflict. And we can find ourselves again. And as a parent, I know I went through a bit of a journey of what makes me happy. I'm no longer confined to don't get me wrong. Of course, every decision I

happy. And what I know I'll get fulfillment from. So it took me, I'd say, a good 12 months to

I mean, heal. You never fully heal. But to go through that journey of, okay, I'm going to

grieve this family and this relationship that I had. And that's broken down. I need to do the work on myself through a bit of therapy, through talking with friends. And I think through really

“sitting back. And I think journaling was really good for me and saying, okay, what do I want now?”

What do I want out of life? What do I want for my son? What kind of life do I want to give him? And how do I do those things on my own? So it's really setting yourself up for that. And then going through that healing. And once I think you have that plan in place, you can step back and say, I could be a better coper now. I can, you know, that betrayal. If that's what you went through all the conflict or the grief, the sadness, I can come, how do you say it, come in, okay, and say,

put it to one thought in your mind, right? And so put that aside. And then say, okay, let's start making decisions together for the benefit of that children. Yeah. So really letting yourself process and feel all the feelings that come with it, which really is the hardest part sometimes, when you're in this deep emotional place, it just can feel so chaotic. But really what we know is when you let yourself feel it fully, that's the fastest way through it. And it's so hard.

“It really is. And I guess we can't be scared to feel, because I think what a lot of parents”

do in a lot of months do is we try and take responsibility for everything. We are the responsible ones. We've got so many different burdens and at least different hats we're wearing. So some people are going to just forget about their emotions, don't process what's going on and we just keep going. You know, we've got to tell the school, we've got to organize what's happening, you know, with the extra curriculants, with our parenting arrangements, with family and friends,

no slow it down. There is no sort of perfect parent. There is no perfect whole parent. We just need to slow down and say, what's going to work for us now? And rushing around and trying to, you know, rebuild or fake this life that we once had and pretend everything is perfect, isn't going to work either, because it'll come crashing down one day. I think if you block out what's happening and block out that emotion in six or 12 months, it'll hit you and then what

you do, because you still have these little people that you're caring for or big ones if they're

“teenagers. And it's still that imbalance of what I do. So process, feel that emotion, you need to,”

my only message really is do it, but don't involve your children in it. And I think that is something that is so important, because we want to grieve and heal and feel, but we don't necessarily want our children being involved in that healing process, because I think that's when they get most negatively impacted. I work with too many families and see too many kids who grow up really, they say often that their parents divorce ruin them. And that's not because their parents got

divorced. You should not not separate if you're in a high complex situation or where that's best

for you, because you're worried about ruining your children's future. What ultimately ruins children

is that ongoing post separation post divorce conflict, right, bringing them into using them as the messengers, letting them know how hurt you are that mum or dad hadn't affair anything like that. So that is the worst part for kids and not the divorce itself. I am a chocolate person. And what I'm obsessed with right now is the unreal, that's the brand, unreal, dark chocolate peanut butter cups. Unreal is on a mission to un-junk the world starting

with chocolate. Their vision for the future is a world where food is 100% real. So when I'm having these dark chocolate peanut butter cups, I know that what I am eating is actually better for you. There's way less sugar, simple ingredients, and no artificial anything. They've spent over a decade reinventing nostalgic chocolate classics with only the good stuff. Everything unreal makes this fair trade certified gluten free, non-GMO, and kosher. They use zero artificial

preservatives, flavors, or colors, and almost all of their products are vegan too. You can also find unreal products anywhere cravings hit, including at Whole Foods Target, Costco, and other grocery stores. And as a special offer for our listeners, visit unrealsnacks.com/BLF to get two dollars off a bag of unreal, terms and conditions apply. You'll also the dark chocolate caramel peanut nugget bars. That's a mouthful. They are so good, and that was kind of my intro

into the unreal chocolate candy bars. I can never go back. I feel really good about myself,

eating them. It's simple ingredients. It's no artificial anything. And so I truly can enjoy my snack break by little, my little thing just for me. Visit unrealsnacks.com/BLF to get two dollars off a bag of unreal, terms and conditions apply. There's like 5,000 things you

I did not realize how many meals and snacks you have to make every single day. And you finally

figure out what your baby eats, and then boom, you've got a toddler with opinions. It can be exhausting. So one thing we've actually used in our house that works really, really well is little spoon, and why keep coming back to it is it's one place that I can get meals and snacks for my kids of all different ages. But bottom line, it's made with real food, real ingredients. I feel really good about serving it to my kids. Little spoon literally thinks through every stage. They

got baby blends. They've got biteables that are perfectly cut for toddlers who are learning to feed themselves and big kid plates and lunchers that somehow include veggies that still get eaten, miracle, and here's the part that I love the most. Everything for babies and toddlers is tested for over 500 contaminants, including heavy metals, and that piece of mind. For me, it's priceless. So feeding your kids feels harder than it needs to be, little spoon will make it easier.

Get 30% off your first online order at littlespoon.com/BLF30 and use code BLF30. One less decision,

one more win, I'll take it. Get 30% off your first online order at littlespoon.com/BLF30 and use

“code BLF30. Your human, you're going to have your feelings and you should. They're healthy,”

all the feelings are healthy and normal, and it's about how do you take care of them without putting that burden onto your kids, because they are going to be going through their own process. And as we shift to the kids, I'm curious, since you see this, you know, day in, day out, and I've helped many families through this process as well, what would you, yeah, what would you say, is kind of your number one advice when it comes to helping kids through this process?

Yeah, I think it's the reassurance, and that is the biggest thing for children, reassurance and stability, because they're so scared. They don't know what's going on. They don't truly understand what a divorce or separation is to them. Their family is breaking down. All of a sudden, they are so different to so many kids at school, to their friends, particularly if you live at a community where perhaps it's not something that's that common. So I think that is the hardest

“part for children being different and not knowing. So the best thing you can do is a pair and it's”

show up, reassured in the both parents love them. Irrespective of what one of you may have done wrong to each other, we love you, we support you, we will work together for you and not too much just changing. You know, you will have different bedrooms and different homes. You know, things will change in terms of how your life looks, but you should still feel safe and secure because your parents will be there. And I know it's hard for parents, and I've been there,

I've done it, I get it. You may not want to speak to your ex or your co-parent, but I think it's really important for your children to know. Any time you want to speak to your other parent, that's okay. Because I think one of the worst things for a kid is knowing, I'm blocked from speaking to my other parent. You know, mum hates dad so much. It's so difficult for her that I can't pick up the phone and you're a face-time dad because I'm missing

or vice versa. And it may be difficult, and like there are many days I don't necessarily want to get on the phone and have to, you know, look at my ex or have that conversation. But I do have to be the bigger person and say, you know, I will pick us as too young to work at how to do it himself. I will jump on the iPad or the phone, set up the face-time, and call you dad,

“telling how school was because that's how exciting. And like for example, yesterday, it was my”

son's first primary school for us. So what do you call elementary school kindergarten? So it's a

really exciting thing for him. And we showed up together because that's the right thing to do. He was so excited. You know, he ran up to the teacher and said, this is my mommy and daddy together today. It's like a big thing for him. So I wanted to really, you know, grasp that moment and normalize that for him because I saw how excited that made him. And I didn't want him to think, my mom and dad can't be together. I'm going to be blocked from that and be different to the other

kids starting school today. So those sorts of decisions and things are so important for parents to keep in mind. Yeah, absolutely. And there's a lot of logistics that you're navigating, that the kids are now navigating, maybe they're going to now two different homes throughout the week. So it is a big change. And I like what you're saying because it all comes down to helping them feel secure and loved while things are changing, giving them this very grounded foundation of

your safe. I have a plan for us. I'm going to help you through that and really being there for them, right? Like explaining what's going on in child friendly language. That's appropriate for their age. And then really opening the door for any questions that they have and letting them be honest about

those questions, keep having those conversations. Don't have it just once. You know, keep

checking in in three months and six months, life keeps changing. Children navigate, as you know, their own problems and their own issues constantly, their little minds don't process like we do as adults. So they're constantly worrying and wondering, a thing is okay now. I'm a dad getting

“back together now. You know, is someone seeing someone new? Do I feel safe in my home? So I think”

it's important to consistently have a conversation with them to say, how are you feeling, how are you coping? And then allow them to really process and and speak out to you. And it's difficult as that can be for a parent. Listen to, I miss my dad or I miss my mom or I need more time with my mom or my dad. And that might mean shifting the way you do things and not every set of parenting arrangements is perfect for some an equal time arrangement works well for others.

It doesn't. And I get it because I'm a lawyer, but I think lawyers can often interfere and try and middle with how those parenting arrangements should be. And as a lawyer and with my lawyer had on, I can certainly say the way judges and courts do things. This is what it's going to look like for you, but you've also got the power of as parents to negotiate and mediate and decide on your own set of parenting arrangements that really focus on your particular family. Only you

know your kids, lawyers and judges don't. So if you think your child will benefit from changing things every few months until you find your normal and your stability, that's all right too, because you're the one checking in with your child and making sure they're coping. And I guess separate from that, allow them to get help too. So many parents shy away from this idea of therapy

and allowing their children to heal with a third person because there's a bit of a stigma about

my child's therapy that's going to cause bigger issues down the track. It's not. Kids need help just as much as we do. So put them in that environment, allow them to speak to that neutral third person, because it can be hard talking to them and dad. They don't want to hurt either of your feelings. They don't want to be caught in the middle of that conflict, but they still need

“that help. And that's where I think a good therapist psychologist counselor comes in.”

Could not agree more, because what we know about trauma and hard experiences that we go through, it's all about how we're making sense of the experience. Two people can go through the same hard experience and based on how they're making sense of it, we'll determine the outcome for those

two different people. So therapy can be such a game changer in this way. And that brings me to

another point, which is little kids often will come up with their own narrative of why things happen if we're not opening the door for communication and helping them through it. So in the case of separation and divorce, I have worked with a lot of kids who end up feeling like it's their fault, like they're part of what caused this. And when we can clarify and kind of rewrite that story with them proactively, it makes such a difference. So I don't know if you've seen that or if there

are any other things that you'd kind of recommend parents proactively do or avoid in this situation.

“I think there's a really fine balance, because I see exactly what you're talking about and the”

opposite. I think we can either talk too much or not talk enough or at all. And you spot on in that when we don't talk and we don't open up and we break down. We block communication and we keep moving and we try and fix all the pieces. I often talk about putting a band aid over it, right? I'll forget about the problem we'll keep moving forward. I'll buy the nice house. I'll get them, you know, then you're doing it for their bed and the toys, but not actually go through what's happening.

And a child starts to think, what's it my fault? It was I too naughty. It was it, you know, me acting out, having problems at school, but broke down my parents' relationship. Could I have changed things so that they stayed together? And that is a horrible thing for a child to grow up feeling. And that causes us, you know, as so many issues for them into adulthood. So then I say, we need to communicate to an extent. And it's the right communication.

As you say, you know, child focus manner. And then a way that they can sort of process and understand what's going on. We love you. The shape and the dynamic of our families changing. But there are adult reasons why that's happening. It has nothing to do with you. It's moment dad will be happier this way. We will communicate better this way. We will make better decisions for you this way. And we really are in some ways doing it for you so that you can have a happy

healthier child who'd end their adult forward. Without going into dad had the affair or, you know, mum stopped loving me, whatever that might be. Because too many parents also fall into that trap. And then that causes issues. You know, I've I've worked with a lot of clients who, and it's normal, you know, you've lost this person that you like. The person you go to bed with,

start doing that with a child. And that, for the happens with a little bit older children,

“you know, 10, 11, 12 women and daughters in particular. And I find they try and become bestest.”

So you'll take your daughter out for a coffee or for dinner because they're the new person you hang out with. But then you start really burning them with, you know, your dad's not paying child support. I'm hurting or I've met this guy or whatever it might be. And then your child is carrying that, that guilt, that confusion. And they're being fed a certain narrative, which may not be the right narrative. It's how mum's feeling right or wrong. But it almost then blurs and changes the

way of child feels about their other parent. So then they start going into believing that narrative. Yeah, 100% it's that. And then it's also avoiding the little digs that the other parent and remembering that your kid is half you. And yes, that parent. So when we're digging at the other parent in a way, we're also taking shots at them. Yeah, you are. You are kids say that all the time.

“And we see these videos and messages go around. And that is the biggest thing. Because if you're”

saying, I really dislike your other parent and you're showing that this child's growing up thinking this got to be something wrong with me. If mum or dad are so bad and I am half mum and dad, I'm carrying that characteristic. There is something in me that isn't right either. And I've had to learn that. You know, I'll get a text message pop up and I'll try to say, you know, they have don't roll your eyes. Don't allow your child to see you getting. And it's normal.

You can get angry. There will be ongoing conflict. That is just life. And it takes a lot of work. But slowly, and when I'm talking five years later, you will start to be able to identify the things that trigger you and don't. So you've got to start putting in place all boundaries. Like I might say, when I'm in the car, I'm not going to look. I won't have the messages pop up because I don't want my son to see from the back seat. You know, things that might trigger me.

Well, if we're sitting down and we're having dinner, you know, I'm not going to engage in any third

part of your conversations with his dad about what's going on at school or anything where we might

“get into an argument that he will then say hang on. I think mom and dad are arguing. Things”

like that. So it's just working out what triggers you and then when you'll have those conversations away from your child. I tell everybody in my life about nutritional. Because I love it. I've been taking it for literally two years now. More than that. Oh my god, my baby is three, almost three and a half. I've been taking it for a long time. Y'all, the difference in my hair postpartum after my third baby when I was taking nutritional postpartum versus every other postpartum experience I've

had. The other two was insane. Okay. We all know you have pregnancy here, which my hair was beautiful. Thick. Luscious. And then postpartum. My hair is like a completely different animal with a neutral full, even postpartum. It was full and it decreased shedding. I loved it so much that I kept it going after the postpartum period and now I just take the women's formula. I take it every single day. I swear by it. I have told my sisters about it. I tell my friends about it.

I tell strangers about it. I'm not joking. It makes such a difference in the fullness and how my hair just looks healthy. Neutrophil supports hair health from within and delivers results over time. So your hair becomes something you enjoy and not something you stressed about. Neutrophil is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. Let your hair become one last

thing taking up space in your head and see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Neutrophil. For a limited time, Neutrophil is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit Neutrophil.com and enter promo code feelings. That's Neutrophil.com spelled NUTRAFOL.com promo code feelings. Okay, you've heard me talk about this before. It is the quince Mongolian boyfriend Tajmir sweater.

I'm never going to shut up about this thing. Okay, and I've heard it from other people too.

I feel like this is the viral sweater. It's oversized and it's affordable even though it is silky smooth Kashmir. Quince has all the staples covered similar to this sweater which is my literal staple that I have in four to five different colors. Quince has all of the pieces that feel like designer pieces without the markup. 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up, perfectly cut denim for everyday wear and wardrobe essentials that are crafted to last season after

season. Quality shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the fabrics, every piece is thought fully designed to be your new wardrobe essential. I literally never take the sweater off except

ethical, trusted factories, then priced far below what other luxury brands charge. Quince has you covered with luxe essentials that feel effortless and look polished. They're perfect for layering, mixing and building a wardrobe that lasts. Their versatile styles make it easy to reach for them day after day. Refresh your wardrobe with quince. Don't wait, go to quince.com/BLF for free shipping on your order at 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's QU-I-N-C-E.com/BLF to get free shipping

“and 365-day returns. Quince.com/BLF. Have you ever looked in the mirror and not recognized yourself?”

Me? F***ing, too. Hi, I'm Caroline Baudino from Instagram Shop with Caroline and host of

Coming In Hot. This tough New Yorker, who source she would never depend on a man, lives to wear

all her jewels and look fabulous, let everyone else's expectations of being a mom, a wife, a daughter, a Cuban parents, take her already. I finally put my oxygen mask on first and took the biggest bet of my life. Join me every Monday on Coming In Hot to deep dive on finding your own happy tools and living your best life, too. Yes, we can. You know, I think this might be the most burning question, maybe for anyone who's listening to this

right now. As a therapist, I went through with families, some very, very difficult divorce processes. And I think maybe the hardest part at times is how do you communicate and co-parent with someone that is not cooperating? Someone who is not doing the work that you're describing, like that's the

reality. We can sit here and we can read your book, which is awesome. I'm sorry. All these things

that we should be doing because we know it's the best for the kids and sometimes you're in this situation with a co-parent who's not stepping up and owning it and doing this work. And like, what is your advice there? Yeah, look, you're right. And co-parenting isn't for everyone. It's a lovely word and I'll throw in the collaborative. That's even nicer. And if that works, fantastic. But as you say, it takes two people to show up and two people to do the work to be

collaborative. So if it's not going to work, we look at other options and we put in place other boundaries and rules and strategies to at least parallel parent. And we maybe go down that path.

“And again, I think they're all fancy terms that fancy words. But the reality is you are both”

parents of life. You both have some sort of ongoing relationship for life. You're not going to be best friends. No one says that you know, exes have to be friends to co-parent. You don't have to get on. You don't have to sit down and have coffees. But if you have someone who is very difficult, who is putting up every barrier and blocking every, you know, communication dynamic, because they just don't want to part of it, then you say, what can I do? I'm still going to show

up as a good parent. I still want a model good parent behavior for my child. And I know that I'm emotional bait. I'm not going to take the emotional bait. So when, you know, mum or dad, wherever it might be, is trying to be high conflict. You're getting those aggressive text messages. They're putting up those blocks rather than taking the bait and firing back and engaging and I'm going conflict. But up your boundary, not. I'm not responding after 7pm, whatever it might be.

I'm not carrying this through the night when it's my time. My healing, my rest. It might be that you say, I will only communicate with you about certain things. So one practice I try to tell people is, if you don't communicate well, don't do it for the sake of it. You don't have to text

or call or meet a change over and have that conversation if it will ultimately hurt your children.

Do an email system perhaps where you have certain topics. So one weekly topic might be what's happening at school, you know, a health issue, friendships, whatever those things might be and keep that consistent. So really business like communication, short, focused communication on your child, there's no need to go beyond that. And it's, I guess it sounds easier. It's not. Again, it takes work. But it's really putting up those boundaries. And again, taking back that control

and power and saying, I'm not going into you. I'm not going to start firing back and creating this big war between us. I will live by my boundaries and boundaries of things as you know, you do as a person. You can't expect someone else to do them or understand them or accept them.

“But it's up to you. And you will start feeling better. I think that if you put in place”

those strategies, at least your child is seeing you show up, you're doing everything you can and trying to keep the peace. And I guess one thing I will just say is, if that doesn't work, there are so many really good co-parenting apps. Use them. Don't be afraid to use them. They measure your language. They help with tone. And then, you know, they assist with that communication. At least they separate that from your text messages from your emails. And you can

separation. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Well, as we start to wrap up, I'm curious. What would you say

is like the number one thing you would tell somebody who is just about to start this journey, where they're at this point, they're getting ready to make big changes,

“a whole other chapter of life. What's your number one thing that you would tell them?”

Forget the idea of perfection. It doesn't exist. Don't be scared off by the stigma of this idea of the broken family. That doesn't exist. And I think the biggest thing I can say is,

you have the power. And a lot of people laugh when I say that and say, no, you don't. I'm leaving

your relationship because I don't have the power because I don't have that control. No, this is your one opportunity to now redesign your life and your children's life. And this is where you say, I'm stepping up. I'm going to start making the decisions that have focused on my child to better

“their future. And I'm going to not be scared off by this idea of perfect and it will take me time.”

I need to heal and get on this journey and then do it the way it works for me, my kids and my family. And that is the biggest thing I can say. Even in my book, you will not implement every strategy in there, not everything works or is right. It's what works for me and some families I've worked with. But don't watch TV segments. Don't listen to podcasts. Don't read books and think, if I'm not doing it their way, I'm doing it wrong. No, power is with you.

Yeah, I feel like we need that more than ever in these this day where there's just so much noise coming at you all the time, whether it's people in your life or social media and it's easy to get overwhelmed by that, but to stay true to you. Nobody else lives your life. No, that's it. That's exactly right. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for hopping on with me today and and really just sharing all of your insights, all of these tools. I'm sure for so many

of us listening it just feels like a big exhale if you're in this part of life or if you've gone through this. So thank you so much and where can everybody find you? Thank you and thanks for having me. It was a great chat. So you can jump online on Instagram at the Gabriella Pomari and I try and share as many tips and things as I can in real life. The website www.thecollaborativeco-parent.com. Well, by the book, The Collaborative Co-parent, which is available everywhere now.

“Besties, I hope that felt like a big exhale, your shoulders drop and you remember that you were”

doing such a good job showing up for your kids. You are here because you care, they matter to you

and they are so damn lucky to have you in their lives and I hope you take a second to feel that.

We can't wait to see you next week for another episode and until then, I hope you take good care of yourself and get a good rest and I'm going to go jump into my bed right now. I'm going to reset aka watch some Netflix and then wake up and do it all again. The Magic Apparenting. I'll see you soon. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and

services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.