I Have Postpartum Depression, and I’m Still Struggling to Find My Way Out

Friends, welcome back to After Bedtime.

“Today's episode is one of the most vulnerable conversations I've ever had on this podcast.”

I'm sharing about my recent experience with postpartum depression. The moment I couldn't stop crying, the thoughts I was ashamed to admit,

and how I finally realized I couldn't do this alone and did need help.

And I get to share this all with my best friend, Kristen, who's been by my side through all of this. And while it's a little scary to share all of this for me, if it helps even just one person who's been through this is going through this, or feels like they're failing and everyone else has it together except for you in some way. Well, then me sharing it feels completely worth it. So let's jump into it.

Welcome to After Bedtime, where the house is finally quiet, but the real noise begins. The thoughts, the questions, the wondering if you're doing any of this right.

We're Kristen and Dina, child behavior experts, moms, and co-founders of big little feelings,

and we're not here to give you more pressure or perfect parenting energy. Nope, we're here to tell the truth. The unfiltered, beautiful, brutal truth about what it means to raise kids and re-raise ourselves in the process. Because parenting isn't just about sleep, schedules, and snack hacks, it's about healing, it's about breaking cycles, it's about becoming the kind of adult you want your kids to grow up to be. This is the place where we say the quiet

parts out loud, and we're so glad that you're here. Dina, my love, I love my life. Kristen, life! Oh, I'm glad we're not in the same room, though, together. I'm going to be honest.

I smell so bad. I did a workout, didn't have time to shower, and like you, you would not enjoy this.

I don't know that I care, do you think I care? You think I know, but it wouldn't be fair to you.

“Right, put it that way. You are one of those people, actually. I think that's a myth that many”

people would not know from social media is that you are not so much the type A, that's like everything that's to be clean, everything needs to be organized, and you're like a worker outer in the morning, and then not shower. Yeah, I'm really rigid in other ways. I'm a rigid ass person, but not like that, not when it comes to being organized, unfortunately. I wish I had that one. I don't. And it causes some problems in my life. I also have not organized, but I am a shower

person. Like if I'm working out, I got a shower right after. I'm also a shower, like a shower at night. Like that is something that's a myth, you know? All the online people, they're like, "Ooh, shoot, so messy." So I discuss day. I shower a lot, guys. The shower a lot. A lot. I do, I do carry face wash with me. After the gym, I wash my face because my skin is so broken out right now that I feel like I have to. You know, not even wash your face at all.

Yeah, back in the day. Oh, that's a big deal. Like, like a year ago. Back in the day, one year ago. 365 days ago. Long ago. In motherhood timeline. Yeah, he really didn't. You would use like, "Hey, I'm so sometimes or something." Or you just didn't. You were just used like water. Yeah, it's a shower and there was good enough. No skincare routine. Hi. So this, I mean, this episode is a little heavier, but we've been talking as friends every single day, every minute of the day,

and as business owners together. So I'm glued in and now we're just talking like friends. But I realized we're about to go into a really heavy topic. How are you? Well, I guess we'll save how you're feeling in terms of all of that for after our little catch-up. And do you have any fun stories

“for the little catch-up or not fun stories that you want to share? Well, the only thing I'd”

share is that I recently became obsessed with rodeos. And I can't stop thinking about them. Like a sip of coffee and almost spit it out. I didn't know you were going to share that with the public. This is an unveiling moment, everyone, for Dina because I've been sitting alone with this in for me in for like a month now. And it's real. Like Dina is obsessed with the rodeo. Yeah, so we have a big, yeah, we have a big rodeo that comes into town here in October every year.

It's a big one nationally speaking because a lot of people compete in it. And the farm sports is my son's call them. When I say farm sports, I mean it's bullwriting. It's Bronco writing, where you're literally on like a Bronco who's trying to buck you off and stay on as long as you can and do the best ride to get the most points. There is steer wrestling. Okay, I know I know this has a lot of problematic pieces with the animals. I get that. Yeah, and I feel that. I mean,

I'm sure a lot of people listening maybe do get it. I don't know. Maybe some people get it

because it is huge. I mean it's huge. Is this? Yeah, it's a big thing. Yeah, and then Colorado here. I don't know, maybe feel more connected to Colorado because there are a bit times where you know

“growing up in a lay and then moving here. I'm like, what are we doing in Colorado? Where am I?”

I don't know if this is a Denver thing. Like I was in Denver for 10 years. You know what? I said Colorado. Okay, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. I didn't say Denver. No, Colorado. You don't know if that's the culture of like where we slash you live, but Colorado sure. Yeah, I'll give you that. And I'm sounding really judgmental right now. I'm gonna, I'm gonna wipe it up. That's okay.

This is I know the, I know the Nebraska people listening. They get it. They get it. They get it.

They get it. Is that adjacent to Colorado? The Wyoming people get it. Is that all you get it? A farm area? Wyoming? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. With a lot of farm sports. So anyways, it came into town and bottom line is I went once then the old autism took over. I became obsessed with it and I went five times including going to the championships. I became really invested and now all of my June and July is going to be devoted to going to rodeos in my area. Dina stop it. I can't help it. It's the new formula.

One how will you even have time in your schedule for both? I, I don't know, but it's going to happen. Both

“are going to happen. I didn't choose this. I think it's the smell. I'm not into that. I don't need that.”

It's the feeling towards the animals. I don't like them being tackled to the ground. I did go to rodeo once when I was very young. And I remember feeling very badly for the animals. Even the ones that are just being ridden. I mean, they're held in like a pen and then they have to be let loose. It's just not for me, but it also smells really bad and there's a lot of people. And I don't really love sports anyways. So then this is kind of like an elevated sensory nightmare

version of sports. So what I'm saying is it's kind of like how you give birth on non-medicated. And I love that for you. So so much. I have no judgment. I think it's a totally valid choice. It's also my absolute nightmare. Like if I were to be punished for the rest of my life, I would either give birth unmedicated again, not my choice. Or be in a rodeo for the rest of my life, probably. That's fair. I understand that. I support that. I love you. I'm more so different.

“Honestly though, I mean, leading into today's topic. I went to the rodeo. This all happened right”

when I was at like the lowest of lows in the postpartum depression. Weirdly, it was like this really existential kind of experience. I feel like I had where I was watching this guy right a ball. And maybe he was going to, you know, like fall off and get stomped on and die. Wow. And I was sitting there like already contemplating my entire existence in life. So maybe that was part of it too. Okay. We connect me, connect me, connect the dot.

Where are we, the bull rider? Are we the guy getting trampled? Like where did the light bulb go off? I was a mom. I mean, well, this is where it's going to get dark. And we should just go into the episode as I was a mom sitting there just contemplating like, do I even want to be alive? Because postpartum depression, like all jokes aside, is so all consuming and heavy and intense. And that's honestly where I was at that moment in the rodeo. It can happen in the rodeo.

Who? Okay. Let's start talking about it because I, it's so important and we're ready. And we're ready to leave the rodeo behind. Let's bring it. Okay. Okay. Sweet friend. There is a very unique parenting fatigue that comes from feeding kids. One, you can't really even imagine until you're actually living it because it's not one decision. It's thousands. Every stage every meal, every snack, you're evaluating ingredients, nutrition, safety, convenience, forever.

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pep talking myself. How are you doing? Right now, going into talking about such a vulnerable and intense thing. Is this on the podcast? Yeah. This whole thing is a podcast, babe.

“Where am I? How am I feeling about it? Honestly, a little bit of relief because it feels really”

nice to just be me and be really honest about what's been going on and sometimes I think being a therapist, I feel like this added kind of pressure sometimes to have it all together and be thriving and be resilient and sometimes I'm just a human who's having a hard time because postpartum life is, it's hard. It's intense. Even on the best day, it's a roller coaster ride for someone. I'm happy to hear about it only because I'm not happy to hear that you have it. I'm happy

that you're sharing. I also think it's so isolating when you don't share it and I know we

vulnerably sort of in the middle of it before everything is wrapped up neat and tidy and there's no right or wrong choice to choosing to share now, like in the midst of it or choosing after,

“but is that part of the relief that you're feeling is sharing sort of now while you're going through it?”

Yeah, I find it really hard to honestly do anything and kind of like fake stuff. I've never been

good at that. You can always kind of read my poker face whether I like it or not so it feels really nice to be able to just like show up as my whole self and honestly when I first shared this on our Instagram page something really incredible happened which is and I was pretty embarrassed actually to share that because I was like really just I couldn't keep it together and so many moms wrote in to me and shared their stories of just like this was me. I went through this I'm in this

right now and I feel so alone like thank you so much for being honest and I think it woke something up in me honestly where it's like listen I'm gonna share this even though I have a lot of

“feelings mixed feelings about it and feel a little bit embarrassed at times again but if it helps even”

just one person listening to feel less alone or feel less broken because postpartum depression will trick you into that trick you into thinking that you're a worthless piece of shit honestly or if it's that loving nudge that maybe somebody needs to go get help then it's a hundred

percent worth it so I'm happy to be here and let's just normalize this for a second because when

you're in it you feel like you are a piece of shit you feel like you are the only one who is struggling you're like oh I saw one dm that was like you are the big little feelings like you are the mom and you seem so perfect and put together you not me and I can't believe that you struggle with the same thing I struggle with and that changed everything on how I look at myself so thank you and that was the one I've tingles even thinking about it that was one for me oh that was the

“one for me because the truth is that postpartum depression affects approximately 10 to 20 percent”

of women globally with around one and eight women in the US reporting symptoms so this is so much more common you know than we all really know and I think luckily stories like yours are starting to get more airtime thank God because who can you imagine having postpartum depression in like the 80s oh God we're not okay oh no oh no okay so do you start from the beginning or start with where feels comfortable this is your journey take us through this you know I look back

and I think I I tried really hard to be resilient like I thought I was ready this my third

kid my third postpartum as you know if you've been listening to our podcast I worked really really hard and couples therapy to set up systems with my husband because the last two postpartum periods almost took us down man we're headed towards divorce after those ones so we were like work in really hard to have better communication and be a real team where he's sharing the load of the housework the child care we've got all these systems set up better support and then

I know what to expect right this is my third go round I've seen the hard and just because you've seen the hard doesn't mean it's not hard and I feel like I just kind of rode the waves as best I could I got a baby who non-stop screamed his head off because he had reflux until we figured that out right I'm like okay that's not going to bring me down I'm going to figure it out and keep advocating okay we figured that one out and now we've got to get the tongue tire release okay let's

go do it I got this you know I've been through this before so I'm like taken punch after punch I get mastitis I get it again and I finally I finally make the decision to stop pumping which at the time I'm so glad we recorded that podcast episode I look back now and I'm like duh of course that was the right decision for my mental health so I could actually show up as a functioning mother yes but at the time that too was all consuming it's a really emotional decision and I was very

torn but I did the brave thing for me at that moment and what ultimately was a right thing and stop pumping so I feel like I had just kind of taken punch after punch but I was still standing

so not at the very beginning but four months in which is really about a month and a half or so

“after I had stopped pumping I got my cycle back something started to shift and day by day”

I was feeling really tired and and burned out and I kept thinking oh man that was a hard day but you know what I'm just gonna rest as much as I can I'm gonna sleep tonight as much as I can and wake up tomorrow and I'm sure I'm gonna feel different and feel better and I didn't it just kept going and I was trying to use all my tools and meditating like hey Mike take the kids I'm gonna rest more nothing seemed to be working until it escalated pretty quickly at a

certain point it's like things were hard hard than dropped off a cliff for me where all the sudden I was walking around which is like nonstop tears in my eyes no matter what was going on where I was I just was right on the verge of crying and was crying like most of the day

“like sobbing like sobbing sobbing with the bottle sobbing what around just breaking out into”

like sobs yeah and I could not figure out why which is for me like really frustrating I always

want to I like being self-aware and insightful so I'm digging in I'm like what is going on what is happening to me I don't feel good I cannot pinpoint it and I mean postpartum really is it's the biggest hormonal shift that someone is gonna go through in their entire life the biggest fastest elevator drop of hormones so I know that's part of it too especially when you stop pumping right or you stop your milk there's a hormone kind of shift that happens then too on top of just

this nonstop barrage of taking care of a newborn which I know some people really love that phase I have

always found it really hard and really challenging because of the nonstop demands and the exhaustion

so for me it's always been hard and by the way the hormone piece is just one part of it it's not even like oh it's definitely not say a root cause of all ppd a lot of times you look into the support and it's a mom who's caring everything on her own was it kind of like you know when you're in college Chris and actually I don't know if you're gonna relate to this because I don't know if you did all your work in your finals and your papers not where I thought we were going when we said

“remember in college and like yes all nighters partying drugs what do we got what are we gonna”

compare this to go ahead okay you know when you had a final paper do and people I didn't do this personally because I did my papers two weeks in advance little by little that's my style but most people would stay up all night and like you know they're like trying to get that paper done and you're dragging and you're just pushing to your limits and then you turn that paper in and you're free you're done with that semester you're out baby and that's when you get

knocked on your ass with some sort of sickness and you're like out you know what I mean so was it like the postpartum kind of version of that where it's like man I did all this hard shit and like oh god now it's all done and I'm collapsing I'm done you know and just to clarify medically there doesn't have to be any reason for postpartum disorders okay can't just happen so you definitely can have postpartum depression postpartum anxiety postpartum OCD and you've done

everything right and it is not hormonal it is not related to any kind of a struggle you can have everything locked in perfectly and still get a postpartum disorder yeah definitely but I hear you

I always want to know the why that's something both of us are good at and bad at you know it's

not like we can just we can just be like all right this is what I have now we are like I'm gonna relentlessly figure this shit out sometimes just can't figure it out no I mean that's like surrender and be like okay well I'm not okay now what which is really what I experience it was like day after day relentless crying and falling apart and this is the part that I'm actually like have I guess the most shame to speak about and I'm trying to move past that because I know that shame

just it lives in the silence man so I just couldn't show up as the mom I want to be and I was

respond to them I was yelling which I'm not I've worked I want to say I'm not a yellower but

deep down under there that is my wiring from my own childhood and I've worked really really hard

“to not be a yellow day today and damn I was falling apart honestly that's what started the spiral”

I think to go even deeper in the postpartum depression is like I feel bad I'm struggling now with me showing up and impacting my kids this way like oh my god and that's when I started to go to this like deep dark place that I just couldn't pull myself out of I feel like where after those moments I'm like that's it I ruined it everything's ruined they are damaged I'm a

shitty ass mom they don't deserve this I should not be here and it just builds until eventually

I was going to bed it and I was like I genuinely don't want to be here anymore and I was walking around like just dreading waking up the next day and it was just sitting on me like suffocating me and I remember telling Mike I was like I can't breathe I can't breathe anymore

“hmm hmm I wish I could give you a hug we're not so right now they know there was one night”

that really just like healed the shame for me we're putting the boys to bed and it was after I had had one of those rough moments where I yelled at them and you know I feel like I feel like there's making mistakes and day-to-day parenting where you're like you know what hey I'm sorry I got overwhelmed and I yelled at you this one was like those really deep ones where you're like God damn I scared you I made you feel sad and like none of it is you this is all me I wish

I wish I could really help you understand that and so I had one of those and we're putting the boys to bed and I said again I had already you know gone through the repair with them or I was like boys you know I'm so sorry for what happened I'm having a hard time and Mike stepped in and he was like

you know what mommy it's okay you already said sorry and just like I always tell the boys to go

gentle on their selves when they make a mistake the same thing goes for you mommy be nice to yourself you were having a hard time and you are having a hard time and we love you and we're always gonna be your family and we're gonna get through this and I'm literally like sobbing I'm sobbing how healing how healing is that to hear holy shit oh my god yeah he really stepped up in that moment yeah and was just such a supportive partner and in hindsight this is exactly what I needed

at that moment was like not only to hear that then he took it a step further and he's like hey like you're not okay I love you why don't you take some time for yourself just take some space I'm gonna take all the parenting for us I'm gonna pack every lunch I will take them to school I will handle dinners like every bath you just focus on you so you can understand what might be helpful for you right now it's like oh my god what a gift yeah because really at that point I mean

I just couldn't function and Kristen I feel like I mean you know this I was texting you like nonstop and I just couldn't stop saying I just didn't think this was gonna happen to me and you very wisely reminded me I don't think anyone does I know I know because it's like what we were saying earlier where if we just put the right things in the right places then everything will be okay and sometimes it's just not and sometimes we just

“can't fix it we can't prevent it I also remember you saying a lot about the motherhood piece when”

you're in it that was so hard for me as the bystander to hear how you really did feel like everything was kind of over in that moment because of the depression just taking over and this is before we we you had titled it depression right we didn't know what was going on but you were just like I have bucked everything up I'm bucking everything up every day I shouldn't even be around them so I'm not going to be around them and oh man I just have chills thinking about it because you

had and you have a four month old baby and there's just it's so much it's so much and there was just no there was no grace because I don't think depression gives you grace it only gives you shame oh yeah

I couldn't sleep anymore and I was so exhausted but I was up all night no matter what I mean

I was sad I felt genuinely genuinely hopeless like what is the point of life I have

“fucked it all up there is no point in going on and honestly this whole family would be”

better off without me at this point and I just felt like I couldn't make it stop like no matter what I tried it just wasn't working I kept like meditating and monitoring to myself like okay I'm gonna stay grounded I'm gonna you know see their behavior is normal for your old behavior it's not gonna shake me and it did like instantly I was crumbling and that's when I knew it was like okay

we just got to run run and get help as fast as you can it was dark thoughts I know that you

have struggled with that before and it's something that I don't think a lot of people say out loud that they struggle with we know some great people who struggle with that and I want to normalize it for anybody listening meaning normalize that it happens normalize getting help my dad obviously took his own life and so there was not a time that he said to me I'm not okay or I'm thinking of this or I'm I'm having thoughts like I shouldn't exist here anymore

and for you to catch that so quickly and realize and say to your friend and say to your husband I don't think I should be here anymore those really scary thoughts that we are just like you can say that out loud they're gonna like I can't say that out loud but the fact that you said it

“out loud I think is the bravest thing that you could possibly do and the bravest thing you possibly”

do for your children by the way as somebody who lost a parent to suicide like I cannot emphasize to you or anyone listening how important it is to say out loud and how strong and how brave you are not how weak you are for having the thought of wanting to leave that's not weakness and saying it out loud is like literally you're gonna change your children's entire lives yeah yeah and now looking back it's so clear that feeling was just complete overwhelm

and hopelessness and depression and and depression and straight up depression yeah feeling like there is no way out and this is not going to get better and other days it also would be better off if I could just disappear like check check check check depression well guys that your brain is telling you hmm and then there's that you got help right away I mean tell you last about this yes because even as I was going through it then goodness from my therapist kind of lens 100 feet out

watching myself as like red flag red flag let's go just run run to get help and so I did I called my doctor and I had that moment you know when they walk you through the checklist and they like do you have thoughts of hurting yourself and I'm like I sure do and it's so hard to say out loud but I did and she was really really loving and didn't make me feel embarrassed or shameful about it just super supportive and we decided to dig into a few kind of you know body medical things on

our side take a look over there but then I know tubing a therapist there are certain tools like EMDR can be really really effective for a situation like this so fired that back up called up the guy who helped me when I was going through my last postpartum because I had more postpartum anxiety during that one I kept having reoccurring dreams that my kids were not safe and not okay no matter what I did so EMDR was super helpful then so fired that back up got it in motion and then also

in our conversations I'm so glad we had them I decided to reach out to a psychiatrist as well in case that became the right fit for this period and I know there are there's a certain

“medication even for a postpartum depression that can be really really effective what's it called?”

Yes it's called I think it's called "Sers of Day" is how you say it I'm pretty sure really really effective. I wish I would have come out of the hospital on that. Yeah, truly truly.

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“money in the couch cushions but like on a much bigger scale because listen life is busy enough”

or managing kids jobs groceries school schedules so if you're curious about how much you might be able to clean up in your subscriptions and bills get started with the experience app now and just a quick note results will vary not all bills or subscriptions are eligible savings are not guaranteed paid membership with connected payment account required see experienced comfort details okay so you have a psychiatrist on standby so yeah I'm trying a few different things the MDR is definitely helping it's helping

me stay more stable and have a better bandwidth right now as I continue to figure this out and I'm also trying to support my hormones because those were very off balance we found out but overall I still feel very fragile right now is the way I would put it I feel really delicate and sensitive like I can't overdue it I feel not so hopeless anymore but I don't feel back to my normal self I still feel kind of low grade kind of sadness in the background even though now I'm having more these

kind of you know joyful moments with my kids but there is kind of this background noise still

I mean this is a weird question but as somebody who was in it well like how scary is it for you

right now obviously when we met up and when we were at that we were at a ten you know when I've been

“at a ten like ten where you're just like that call to the doctor you'll remember for the rest of your”

life of just being like okay I'm not okay so today where we at where you at I should say hmm today I would say probably like like a four I'm trying to keep my demands as low as possible I'm trying to like stay offline honestly as much as possible and just day to day be really intentional about how much I'm doing how much where my effort is going or my energy is going I need to rest more and still have Mike sometimes just step in and like take the load on days where I feel like I'm

super low because what I notice is I like many people who have gone through traumatic stuff in their life have an ability to dissociate honestly when I get overloaded and so that is what I'm keeping my eye on is like when I get overloaded as a mom if I feel like I'm dissociating how can I have Mike step in so I can reset ground myself and come back to being present and okay and sometimes you can't you got to take a break or sometimes you can't you got to throw on the TV because you can't

“take a break you have to you know take it really easy order in that night so I'm trying to do more”

of that as I work my way through it hmm well I am really proud of you especially it's not easy for you of all people to take it easy I heard a lot of words about rest and asking for help

and offsetting your load and I have known you a long long time and that has never been

part of your vocabulary ever all out of my comfort zone friend rest means baking 17 pies in 45 minutes are you crying right now because you're still doing that yes the answer is yes we made a chocolate pie the other day while I was watching all three then by myself I was like this is a way to cope right I'm coping this is a rest oh god okay well as someone who has struggled with this before and as your best friend I'm really proud of you

you're doing great recovering from postpartum depression depression in general it's not easy it's not

“linear that's what I would also tell you or anyone listening which is it's not gonna be instantaneous”

poop and everything is all better so I'm really proud of you for listening to what you need for being open to what you may need even in the future hopefully we just keep going up up and up

but I'm always here for you while you're going up Molly's Dumbo anything that may happen

and all the best is listening same for you you keep going you keep going on up you know what I mean and reach out get help also I think the biggest message here is you Dina and you besties are not a bad mom like you guys are great moms and this is biological happens to one in eight it is nothing you did there is nothing you could have done to prevent it is not your fault you are symptoms meaning your irritability your anger your short temperedness those are symptoms

that is not a choice and it doesn't make you a bad mom it makes you human being who needs to get help it's just a signal so if you've been struggling with this for a while get help and it also could be not postpartum depression anybody's listening in there three years in five years in the same same girl same right and you know it's so funny now because I was panicked okay about what had happened with my kids in the other day now that I'm more stable which is really

my number one goal like if I could just pick one thing to get a grasp on and be just being able to show up is like the safe mom that I want to be and I circled back with the kids and I was like hey guys you know you remember a few weeks ago when I was really I was having a hard time I was crying I was yelling I'm so sorry and they're like what are you talking about and I was like you remember when I was I couldn't stop crying and they're like no like I don't know what you're

talking about we're good and I was like okay and you've been like beating yourself up silently for weeks, for weeks, for weeks, for weeks and what I do know too is as a therapist as I zoom out

damaged them you have not damaged them repair is always possible and you can work through these

things and that is why we show up every single day is we have that great foundation and then there's moments like this in real life and we're gonna be okay mm-hmm so if you are struggling in any way if you are recognizing yourself anywhere in Dina's amazing vulnerable story if you're recognizing

feelings of dread uncontrollable crying intrusive thoughts feeling like you want to disappear

“I really want you to know you're not broken be you're not a bad mom that's what we're talking”

about it may not feel like it while you are drowning in it but depression it's treatable it's treatable you can overcome it with help and help this is what I need to do here that help is not something that you need to earn you don't need to try every single fix before you reach out or help you also don't have to hit rock bottom I did but you don't have to so if you are

“starting to struggle if something inside of you is like oh this sounds kind of like me you don't”

have to wait you don't have to minimize it you don't have to wait until it gets really really bad call your doctor call your OB call a therapist say the words post-partum depression or depression or struggling and you can also call her text 988 anytime and that's the post-partum support international they will connect you to real humans who understand this and you don't have to figure

“this out alone that's really beautiful I love you you're the best you're the best mom you're”

going to be great and this is a hard moment yeah yeah we're going to get through it and we're going

to get through it and I'm always here for you thank you I'm the best you besties thank you and we'll see you soon

please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode hey I'm Josh Peck and I'm Ben Soffer and where the good guys on our show every week we talk about buzzy pop culture stories maybe answer a couple of your voice mails and go into a moment a week that makes you say what are you nuts and I swear it's so much

better than this promo anyway there's a lot of guys out there but we're the good ones stream good guys every Monday wherever you get your podcasts Apple Spotify anywhere you don't listen