Barkley Gets Political, MAHA Revolt, and What the Legacy Media Exodus Exposes, with Shelby Talcott and Jason Willick

And the acuparty everyone, I'll keep trying out my new tagline.

It's the show for people who like their news a little lighter and a little later. I don't know, maybe I'll stick with it. Tonight's guests are Shelby Tauket of Summer 4 and Jason Waleak of the Washington Post. We'll get to them in just a moment. Please support our journalism by subscribing on YouTube that helps us so much wherever you get your podcasts.

And remember to like, comment, and review as well. That helps us keep bringing you our independent coverage free, which we love to do. And it also boosts us in the algorithm so others see the content too. Now, on the show tonight like I mentioned my friends, I like them.

“Their smart, I think you'll like them too.”

We'll start with our Fred Shelby Tauket of Summer 4, who's back.

She's very sourced up on Iran, has some new details to share. Plus, we're going to talk about a shocking new make America healthy again. Paul and Mark Wayne Mullins start during a pretty tumultuous time at the Department of Homeland Security. What can people expect to see from Mark Wayne Mullin, especially as the Sheridan Gorman tragedy continues to play out. We will check in with Shelby.

Now, Jason Waleak of the Washington Post is a really brilliant writer. He's particularly brilliant on national security and the judiciary. So we're going to talk with him about his recent column on what the filibuster and the Iran war. Haven't common, that one you're going to want to stay tuned for.

We are also going to go through how another quote unquote mainstream journalist has de-camped for

sub-stack or else.

“So I have a round-up coming of how this trend is revealing a lot of these like quote anchors,”

people who present themselves as straight news reporters and journalists are actually just libs, which is fine, by the way, but maybe it reveals that we were being lied to all alone. Maybe, I don't know, it's hard to say whether all of these people just suddenly have viewpoints that lean dramatically to the left who knows who can say. All right.

So let's start though, could not do the show tonight without going through clips. From Canada's new Democratic Party convention over the weekend, which a couple of people were graciously clipping. They were watching the live stream and pulling some moments, then posting them on to social media. As a reminder, this is the year of our Lord 2026.

We are not in 2017, we're not in 2021, we're not even in 2024, but the activists gathered at the new Democratic Party convention where they elected a new leader named Avi Lewis. It's a crazy time in Canada, of course, big, big hockey losers, men and women. So things are tense and that tension clearly boiled over. Let's watch the clip.

My pronouns are Sheet Day, I'm from Ontario's. Right now there's discussions of 10,000 American men and women being sent to Iran being deployed just to be part of this bloodbath. Canada cannot and will not be part of the legacy of blood. Your points, quite well-made speaker, I'll again thank delegates, not to call me Madam Chair.

Madam President, so I'm a non-binary person, my pronouns are they, them, and their chair is sufficient. It's hard as a racialized and transgender delegate to sometimes use this card and speak to somebody in front of me in line and ask, hey, this pertains to multiple intersecting parts of my lived experience, I'd like to speak, I was rejected, I hope that in the future,

the federal and DP will also have a broader interpretation of the equity cards for speakers. That's all. Thank you. I have a question about the video. I'm just watching the Toronto Judd Meet saying, I want to know how much money it costs,

I want to know how much time it wasted out of the convention. And that comment is so, so harmful in this space.

“I think the people that are here that are racialized, that are people that have not”

been seen before, deserve the space and are leader that look like us and change the politics for us as new Democrats, as Canadians, as Ontarians, as people from all across this world, as people that have survived genocide deserve God damn respect in this house. Okay, this reminds me of the segment, actually, we did on Lindi West a couple of weeks ago, maybe it was last week, time is a flat circle, but I was listening to the red scare on

Lindi West just today, he dropped five hours ago or something and I forget what was Ann Ardosh, but they talked about how essentially her entire ideology is coped, right?

But this is what happens when your worldview is built on identity markers.

And by that I mean, you're always incentivized to go further and further because you're

looking for something more, right? You're always looking for new ways to explain your own suffering if that makes sense. So new ways to new, new co-ops that manifest in a political ideology and essentially like it's very sad to watch, you know, it's hard not to laugh, but it's also very sad

“to watch so many people because I think actually what we're going to find is that this”

is stickier than many people realized it would be. We've been covering that on the show since we started last year, but this ideology is stickier than people realize because it's actually not just an ideology, it's an entire personality. For particularly millennials, other millennials, we were talking about Lundy West, it's kind of a proxy for the elder millennial who found their entire identity kind of in the project

of identity in the, you know, this question like Christopher Lash, we were talking about this Lundy West segment to wrote culture of narcissism and like the 70s or the 80s. So it's not new that people are building political ideologies out of sort of victimhood narratives, that's a natural human thing to do, it is not just a left, it's not just the right, it's a natural human thing to do, it transcends a political divide, but social media

has just absolutely fueled its popularity on the ideological left.

“And I think that it's, again, conservatives not immune from that, but it's been particularly”

significant on the political left because you had a lot of people who were finding in victimhood or identitarianism, actually since a purpose and meaning, that's really, really

powerful, it's really, really powerful.

So it's not easy to just transition out of that, no pun intended actually, but it's not easy to leave that behind when your entire worldview and identity in personality is built on top of it because this is how you've understood yourself, this is how you've understood the world. And again, do I think a lot of Gen Z rejects that except for, you know, some people who grew

up in bubbles and remain in bubbles probably, yeah, I think it's starting to become clear that at least young men are rejecting it, young women on the other hand, that's part of the problem of sexual dynamics right now is that young men and young women are drifting apart on major cultural questions, we have to talk about that last week. But when I watch a video like this, I can't not laugh, but it's also really sad because

I think what you see in it is a lot of people clinging to politics as a coat for their own personal suffering, they would find answers, fulfillment, and happiness, probably anywhere else, more easily than they will in politics, but they're they're groping for some sense of meaning, some sense of identity in politics and that's just, it's not going to work. It's certainly not going to work for the Democratic Party and even, like, listen, I know

that this is Canadian politics, but I think it reflects a pretty similar attitude among a lot of progressives who are not really leftists, I mean, they might think of themselves as leftists, but progressives whose politics are caught up, I mean, even the Lindy West saga reveals that even through all of the tumult of her personal life, where her husband, who

I guess is also non-binary, asks if they can bring a third and have three sons and basically

be in a three person marriage, and Lindy West has been said that as a non-binary person of color, he was, I think, I think her husband goes by he pronouns, but as consider, consider himself non-binary, I don't know, it makes my head hurt, but that is, as a person of color, non-binary person of color, marriage feels too much like ownership, and this was how Lindy West was calmed into deciding that she could be happy in a three person marriage,

and is obviously not happy, but this is my point, people cling, cling to this pain-inducing, suffering, exacerbating ideology because they think it's really all they have, and they

“go so deep into it over many years, it becomes a foundation, and if that's what your roots are”

planted in, I don't think you're going to be particularly happy, but it's really, really hard to

we're still, we're still seeing this show up on the left, and I wanted to highlight something that

“Roy Tochera wrote at the Liberal Patriot, which is sadly actually, they shut down the Liberal”

Patriot, Roy is coming on the program, but they shut it down, because he said it was hard to make money into sustain a publication when you're going against the grain, but here I pulled the article up right now, the quote in question from Roy is where he says, down here, he raises all kinds of problems, he's a, if you don't follow him, I highly recommend that you do, he's on X, but he's been an analyst of Democratic electoral politics for a long time, and he's going to

like a Clinton era Democrat, super interesting, he writes, indeed for many many voters, the Democrats embrace a radical transgender ideology, and it's associated policy agenda has become the most potent exemplar of Democrats lack of connection to the real world of ordinary Americans. For these voters, Democrats have definitely straight into the quote, who are you going to believe in or your own eyes territory, and if they're not realistic about something as fundamental as human biology,

why should they be trusted about anything else? It's a reasonable question to which Democrats currently have no effective answer, and no calling the question, a billionaire-funded distraction is not an effective answer. Now, let me pull up the clip that I believe Roy is alluding to there, which is Grand Platner, who, if you follow Breaking Points, you know, I find to be pretty impressive as a, as a candidate, here it is. He gets asked, or he's talking at a local event

up in Maine, he's obviously Democrats leading Senate candidate in Maine, he's leading current governor Janet Mills by double digits, and a lot of polls that looks like the race is his to lose. He's talking

about the culture word or recent stop in Maine, here's what he says. He's forgetting dragged in

to frankly culture war issues that are being invented by the people that don't want us talking

“about raising their taxes. That's why it exists. I mean, I just have to pause there and say that's”

that is with respect absolute bullshit, absolute bullshit, have there been some like kitty litter in the public school stories that are either invented or mostly fabricated by people who don't want their taxes raised or people aligned with people who don't want their taxes raised? Yeah, absolutely. But I wrote a comment that the federalist about this years ago, it is utterly absurd for progressives who buy their actual moniker. The name they go by, their entire movement is built

on movement. It is built on I'm taking the net their own word progressive progress and progress means what going away from what the status quo. So all of these cultural issues for the most part, not every single one, I think it's obviously fair to say that there are plenty of opportunistic conservatives, Republicans who will sometimes cynically deploy cultural issues

as a distraction to divide average Americans totally agree with that would never ever deny that.

What it is absurd to deny is that the culture war more broadly if you take something like trans issues to say that that was pushed by the right is absurd. It doesn't land with most voters and it's not helpful for Democrats who do have a real who are you going to believe me your lying eyes problem as rich a chair says with this issue because most people who hear Democrats talk about trans issues don't believe that they believe it. They don't believe that they believe

then can literally become women and have all of the same abilities. A woman has all of the same abilities or a man who's become a woman so as they've become a woman has all the same abilities as a woman. People don't believe Democrats believe that it's a really big problem for Democrats.

“Now it can be solved I think potentially by people like Graham Platner who like a Donald Trump”

Trump benefits from the weaknesses of his opponents. Susan Collins is perpetually underestimated, but of course there are weaknesses as a Republican candidate in a place like Maine when Donald Trump and the Republican Party are struggling with popularity. There will be some real challenges for Susan Collins and Graham Platner may benefit enormously from that and he could handle this by saying listen I know a lot of people don't agree with me but I'm not changing my mind on this.

he should say listen I know a lot of people don't agree with me I'm not changing my mind on this

and I'm also not going to lie to you about this but there are a lot of Democrats who you saw it happen to Seth Molten in Massachusetts he dared breathe one word against the or against his party on the issue after Trump wanted 2024 and he had staffers quit it's still a problem for him there's recently a story in the national media about how it's still going to be a problem for him going forward because of what he said after the 2020-24 election why is that well the activist class in the

base or have built it's a whole generation that has built their identity around post-modern moral relativism and in that structure you are a progressive or a bigot and if you are a bigot of course they're going to do everything they can to run against you can't pan against you destroy your candidacy you're closed down to them so that's I know it's funny clip but it's also very sad in

“many ways and I think it's still an underappreciated obstacle Republicans will have plenty of”

problems and a plenty of things I mean from Iran to the state of the economy to artificial intelligence and big tech Republicans are going to have plenty of things dragging them down and making this you know quote lesser of two evils voting in November helpful for for Democrats but that's still

a serious obstacle so going to bring in Shelby Talcott in one moment stay tuned first the spring

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after party and use code after party at check out that's 25% off when you use the code Emily at cowboy colostrum dot com slash after party all right let's go ahead and bring in our friends shall we tell get she is the semifort white house correspondent shall we thanks for being here thanks for having me back oh my gosh of course you have a big story over at semifort right now that I want to start by discussing first shall be our friend Stephen Nelson asked a question to

Caroline Levitt today at the White House briefing about President Trump's timeline which will kind of frame up the conversation about your article so let's go ahead and take a listen to that first. On Iran on the timeframe President Trump officially said about four weeks secretary state review on Friday before he said it might be another two to four it's two to four the current whole part of administration. With respect to the timeline again the president commander and

chief the Pentagon has always stated four to six weeks estimated timeline for operation epic fury

were on day 30 today so again you do the math on how much longer we the Pentagon needs to fully achieve the objectives of operation epic fury which I will reiterate destroy the Iranian navy destroy their ballistic missiles dismantle their missile and drone production infrastructure significantly weakened their pro their proxies throughout the course of this operation and then of course preventing Iran from ever obtaining a nuclear weapon. So something to just bank in your

head shall be because I'm going to come back to it is that Caroline Levitt there as I know you noticed is very clearly going through those objectives bullet point by bullet point because you can feel the White House's frustration with the media saying they aren't being clear about their objectives Caroline has has intentionally put out that list of objectives many times at this point but wanted to bring that up in light of F2 this is another New York Post writer on uranium quote

Trump considers high risk raid to seize 1,000 pounds of Iranian uranium inside the country we had Brian Dean right on a couple of weeks ago who said it's as possible that like a Delta Force would go in and and recover that uranium and it would technically be boots on the ground shall be you have a new piece F1 over at some before headline why Trump's latest Iran moves

“may signal ground troops this wasn't exclusive can you break it down for a shall be?”

Yeah I think it's pretty simple honestly there's a few aspects of this but I think the biggest thing is you see how the administration is messaging about this right they're they're saying

all of those things are true but you also have to look at what the administration is actually doing

and what they're actually doing is they are sending thousands and thousands of troops to the Middle East and if you look historically at this administration in particular the president doesn't typically do that and then do nothing with that right and it is a huge hall to send these people over to the Middle East and they're not just sending sort of your standard folks who might be there all year round they're also sending these special operations teams these

guys who would be responsible for some of these really elite ground operations and so I think when you look at what the administration is actually doing which is sending all of these troops to the Middle East it signals that a ground troop operation is very much a possibility on the horizon and in fact I've talked to people close to the White House who know the president pretty well

“who argue that it's their theory because of this that that's what's going to happen.”

Okay so that's an important point because people who know Trump well would be able to or are often aware when the tone in the White House and you can correct me if I'm wrong Shelby but if the tone in the White House is that Trump is negotiating. We've seen this happen with tariffs we've seen this we're almost on that liberation day anniversary by the way so happy for sure liberation Shelby but we also have this with the Gaza deal

people can sort of sense when it's unclear but if they're sensing him becoming comfortable with that meaning he's receptive to the arguments seriously receptive to the arguments and he's not indicating to his close circle of advisors that it's a sort of play it's a public relations campaign but he's he's really seriously taking those arguments to heart I would imagine that explains what you're hearing Shelby. Yeah and you talk to anybody inside the administration and they

stress that you know the Pentagon's job is always to provide all of the options for the president

which is true and they've planned for a lot of this for decades right we reported earlier this

“month I think it was a target remember if it was a few weeks ago or like a few months ago”

but one of the aspects we reported was the fact that these ground operations one option on the table is to go in and secure the uranium on the ground and sort of secure this nuclear Iran's nuclear capabilities with special operations teams and this has been a plan by the Pentagon for decades since you know the Obama administration consider it the Biden administration considered it and so I think that's important to emphasize is these aren't plans that are just

now oftentimes coming to fruition these are things that the Pentagon has planned for usually for really long time because they plan for all scenarios but again when we're talking to people close to the White House and people who know the president you know one thing somebody close to him pointed out to me was look at Venezuela right the president sent a bunch of troops to that region

“and we started off by you know taking out these alleged drug boats by the ocean we did that for”

a month or two but that ultimately ended up with a ground operation in which we captured

Maduro and so they're sort of pointing at that and saying you know that operational loan this is kind of similar we're sending all of these troops there's a slow build up all the wild we are negotiating with Iran right and Iran by the way senses this too because you know they had the before this 12-day war when we bombed their nuclear facilities last year the US was negotiating with Iran and so this time around Iran's like hold on we've seen this radio before but that's

also how a lot of people close to the president are viewing it which is you know he hasn't made any final decisions but yeah he is seriously keeping this on the table as an option yeah it's interesting because nobody right now is talking about like boots on the ground in Venezuela I mean obviously we have boots on the ground in Venezuela American diplomatic representatives on the ground in Venezuela it's a very different operation than like quote boots on the ground

looked like in Iraq or Afghanistan so perhaps the president thinks there's a way to avoid that in the middle least this time around shall be I want to circle back to that question about Caroline Levitt laying out the objectives with I would say a noticeable frustration because it does keep happening that the media will say Trump's objectives are unclear and the White House has put forward this list of objectives since like day three of the war day two of the war

but but at the same time the messaging is obviously mixed not just from the White House but from

or if the president because he's chopping it up with reporters on Air Force one as he was doing just 24 hours ago last night if the president's casual conversations in public about negotiating negotiations and the war itself it's almost like everyone's just kind of following his lead

“is that what's happening on the show I think we've talked about this before one of the”

things that people who have worked with the president for a really long time have always told me on the campaign trail in his first term you know these people have been with him for years now

and they've always pointed out that you can do your best to sort of manage Trump but ultimately

he is one of those people who loves to talk to the media he says what he wants and oftentimes that results in his team sort of adjusting based on what he is telling whoever is calling him at 10 30 at night or whoever is calling him at six o'clock in the morning right or what he's saying on Air Force one so I do think there is always with Trump this this idea that you know his team can be really on message I think Caroline is very on message for example right she has been

saying as you said the same thing since day three of this war but then you have the president

“sort of mudding the waters I think you know he talks about having to secure the straight over”

moose that's not one of the administration stated for goals he talks about he talks about regime

change the other night on Air Force one right saying we will we have gone through regime change that wasn't one of the stated goals so there are sort of a mudding of the waters and I also think even with the administration stated goals there it's hard to gauge when you're successful right how do we know that we have completely taken out Iran's nuclear capability or their missiles and so I think that's the other aspect of it so I do think that there's certainly people on

Trump's team who are very on message but I think he is so online and so willing to talk to press that that's where the waters get muddied so interesting all right let's talk about

Maha next because Politico released a poll this morning that I don't know if this was your experience

it was everywhere I saw this everywhere in the Beltway today it was rocking around the internet and you can understand why because we could put this up on the screen F5 is the graphic of the poll results they actually pulled self-identified Maha voters they pulled Trump supporters and I'm going to read a bit here I wrote about it so I'm I'm going to read a little bit from my on-heard article and I really really really be curious what you're hearing internally shall be so the political

poll found quote a majority of Americans associate Maha with the Republican party but not overwhelmingly and most believe the Trump administration has not done enough to quote make America healthy again that includes a 41% plurality of Trump's own 2024 voters I adults who self-identified as Maha were relatively split on whether Trump has quote done enough to quote make America healthy again 47% say he's not done enough 45% say he has that's just outside the margin of error so it's a very

very easy even split and a source close to Maha to the Maha movement told me in response to the poll that Trump should let or if K-Junior loose they said bringing in the Maha voters was brilliant

“coalition building but you have to follow through these voters don't want aesthetics about raw milk”

or even the childhood vaccines scheduled change to the medical community will largely ignore with that penalty they want real and meaningful change to how our food is grown process and marketed this will put Republicans at odds with big ag and big food arguably two of the biggest lobbies in town outside the defense and pharma lobbies but our if K-Junior promises courage and Trump promised to back him so let him lose the perception that Trump has tied RFK's hands

on challenging the interests that are poisoning America's kids it's not helping one last bit of data here so I'll be before turn it over to you political actually pulled about the system itself they said respondents in the poll quote were more likely to say the Democratic party can be trusted to make the country healthier and is more eager to improve health in America while theorists at the same of Republicans and Republicans on the other hand were seen as more likely to be influenced

than Democrats by lobbyists for the food and pesticide industries which is the founding principle of the ma-ha movement to oppose what response did you pick up on from ma-ha world which I know you've covered the White House is you know staffed by people who are our ma-ha but they're also at least as my understanding hearing a lot getting an ear full from lobbyists and ag and and food

there it it kind of pulls at that tension that you just mentioned between sort of big ag and

the ma-ha movement and that's really interesting because when I was covering the transition this was one of the things that some of Kennedy's allies were worried about is they were saying you know he's going to come in here he is all of these ideas but there's also this huge conglomerate in DC who has had a real hold on the White House for decades not these specifically

“Trump but just sort of this town and and so I think that he's running into that but I also think”

that there is an aspect of this of at the beginning of the Trump administration he certainly gotten to some hot water with some of his comments particularly when he was talking about things like

vaccines etc the Trump was a little bit nervous about that stuff he's not totally bought in

on that line of commentary and so I think what's really interesting is you've seen how he really doesn't talk about that much anymore and I think that's the intentional I think that's a concerted effort but I've also spoken to people close to the administration who have expressed exactly what you just expressed which is essentially we really hope that the administration unleashes him I talked to one person in particular just generally about the midterms and unprompted they brought

up this was maybe a month ago they were like you know what I really think is going to happen

“and what I hope happens because this is how you win is you have to take this very messy”

conglomerate of people that you got to vote for you which is the maha movement the traditional maga republicans like very different groups all came together and voted for Trump and you need to lean into sort of for example the Kennedy aspect you need to let him go on the campaign trail and talk and get those people out to vote for republicans and so this person was like this is what they should do essentially whether or not they'll do it who knows but that's what

needs to be done have a chance in the midterms yeah Alex Clark has been covering this constantly on on her show there's clearly a demoralization of maha that really was most exposed during the glyphosate round up meltdown of the last month and it's a huge electoral problem for republicans because the coalition that Trump put together in 2024 we historically haven't seen

“his coalition nationwide and in big state races extend when he's not on the ballot and so”

if you're trying to get that coalition to turn out again and you have like a disillusioned mom in ohio who is has the shared brown election in front of her polls are very close in Nebraska and Iowa and Maine it's early but those are pretty tight polls and those would be flips for for democrats and if you're that mom who's really busy and has to decide on election day whether or not to go and you know in the middle of your morning and your errands interrupt that

and pull the lever when you're actually for republicans when you're like kind of disillusioned by them makes a big difference it makes a really big difference if they actually tried and high profile ways to get your vote back I could see how sending our fk junior out on the trail would would be helpful show I also think an aspect of this and I've talked to administration officials who will acknowledge is that it's kind of similar to the you know we're not talking

about the economy enough which is foreign policy like going back to the war in Iran has taken such a front seat over this past year and a half that even when some of these other groups do stuff it's just not breaking through and so voters aren't really hearing about it because you know the president isn't necessarily highlighting some of these efforts he's not bringing up Kennedy as much as maybe he could be he's not bringing up you know best in as much as he could be

it's all focused on foreign policy and so there's been a challenge for this administration I think to figure out how to talk about all the other things that helped them win in in the election so interesting speaking of places where there have been friction I wanted to get your take on

the Department of Homeland Security we're in Mark Wayne Mullins first week and the shared

and gorm and tragedy continues to play out on a national scale although the story isn't getting too much coverage in the like legacy media outlets it's being covered intensely in conservative media so it's a roughly it should but Mike I was gonna say for some reason yeah just ignore what that was going to say but I have all kinds of things that should end up coming out of my having my modello in honor of Maha I mean it's isn't it the best-selling beer in America it's great I love

fiance is a fellow Wisconsin guy and he's a Miller-Light Davote with all thing out medella so interesting especially some wondering where his loyalty is actually why shall be but

Mark Wayne Mullin first week in office and there's this tension I don't think was well understood

until Christy Nome's last week's in office that people saw internally a divide between Nome and Tom Holman, Nome and Lewandowski and Tom Holman and when they left I had a lot of immigration hawks privately complaining that it might mean the administration is moderating on quote nasty fortations on these enforcement activities that we saw below up in places like Minneapolis and I wanted to play this clip of Charles Barkley on a recent March madness broadcast

that might be characteristic of the type of criticism that the Trump administration is now sensitive to and get your sense of whether that's accurate because it may or may not be let's go ahead real the clip. I want to be very careful with my words right now I love that kid and it's family but the ways some of these other immigrants are getting treated in our country right now

“is a travesty and a disgrace I think there's a difference between amazing immigrants and criminal”

immigrants and I think what's going on in our country what we're doing to some of these amazing

immigrants is really unfortunate and it's really sad and that's a great immigrant story we have a lot of great immigrant stories out there who they stories need to be told but immigrants built this country and we should admire them and respect them. That was actually a great moment for the sir this is a Wendy's meme like he's literally if you listen to this who's on set everyone tunes into my madness to hear about the the hot topic of immigration actually

he's got like the Yukon mascot behind him yeah he's like he's like randomly depict it to this very like emotional and you know I think resonant tangent on I don't know how you should back from that like did the the rest of the broadcast has to just be like and up next no it's like a great Vince Colley clip where he just goes anyway oh yeah

“I think about how the commercial piece of Yukon Chavez is the richest woman in Venezuela because”

socialism and then anyway oh and two yeah I mean I I do think I think that the topic of immigration

has become I mean I think it was always a very kind of sensitive topic for people but people did

vote for Trump because the border was out of control because their you know illegal migration was out of control I think that there are a core group of his supporters who knew what they were voting for who said yes you know we we want all of this gone we want to completely stop illegal immigration and then I do think that there is a group of voters who are a little bit more moderate who maybe didn't vote for Trump all three times who you know kind of held their

nose and voted for him because Biden was the alternative and also they were frustrated with some of the things going on I think those people are uncomfortable with some of the scenes that we've seen play out in public I also think the president is uncomfortable with the scenes we've we've seen right we heard which is interesting by the way because he's the he was entirely comfortable with the optics of mass deportation because it was polling really well and it still pulls like as a split

“with the public I think the big thing is though he is remember where he came from right he's a TV”

guy he watches a lot of TV he came from TV he knows how to put together a show and so he doesn't like when he turns on the TV and he sees for example the Minneapolis situation right these shootings like that's when he starts to think okay this like I don't like what I'm seeing I don't like how this is visually playing out this is not good and I think there are a lot of voters who agree who are and who are saying we'll hold on maybe we're going too far and you'll hear the administration

say you know I think Caroline love it said it today that the Trump administration's immigration policy has not changed but at the same time you've heard behind the scenes some sense of moderation right we heard during a closed door chat with lawmakers one of Trump's top AIDS was saying you know

are whole immigration tactic is shifting but I think that's important because it shows how that they're aware how the messaging matters and how right there argument is you should focus messaging wise on the criminals that we're deporting not on we're going to deport every single person we're going to deport your neighbor who your kids play with right which could maybe just mean doing that stuff more quietly is that like so if you're again an immigration hawk like say

you're one of the people voted for Donald Trump you want nasty portions are you going to just be happy about like a markway moment because now you think the strategy he's now the face of a

worst first as Tom Hullman would say public relations campaign and a christian home

style hawkish deportation regime just not as high profile playing out of everyone's TV screens

“yeah i think that's what people hope and honestly we won't know i think there are some people who”

obviously like don't care about the public messaging and they're saying who cares right we said we're going to deport everyone's deported why are we like yeah why are we like moderating ourselves even publicly but i do think that my sense is that markway malin agrees with the president on a lot of issues but he also is a dc person he knows how this world operates in a way that i think christino didn't and you saw that with some of the decisions she made some of the comments she made and

sort of some of the troubles that she got herself into and so i think that they're going to be much more careful and low key about what they're doing than the dHS under christino and i think you know you saw you talked about the the drama between christino and tom home and i think tom home and it's like a pretty hard line immigration person but you also he's been tapped to to sort of calm down he was tapped to calm down everything in Minneapolis he was also

“brought in for dHS negotiations on capital hill i think that shows you how the administration”

sees him and it's as somebody who despite being a hard liner knows how to talk and message and sort of compromise on these topics well shall be i'm going to send you out on the vinskully

clip because i obviously don't know that's one thing amazing all in one

for as 25 years old originally drafted by the tinder lives in den as well well i can do an engine you're a young kid playing in the United States you're from den as well at every time you look at the news it's a nightmare apart at campus miss runs for a hole in and so she was unfailing to work as it all week does clean it up like i might as well go on my body something free and all of a sudden it's so darkly be and who do you think is the richest person

“and better as well but daughter um you go child hello anyway all into that's let me get that's”

literally that's that's the perfect example i mean it's it I mean Charles Bargley got pretty pretty

damn ghost of that yeah that's amazing oh my gosh so much fun to have you here shall we tell

I got it is of white house correspondent over at seven for it thanks so much shall we thanks amazing well we got other than scully clip into which was unplanned and a total bonus we're gonna be back with Jason will like in just one moment first over the years i have been clear about this i'm not just pro birth i am pro life and being pro life means standing with mothers not only before their baby is born but long after and that's exactly why i partner and partner very

probably with preborn preborn doesn't just say babies they make motherhood abundantly possible they provide free ultrasound and share the truth of the gospel with women in need and in crisis and then they stay with real practical help including financial support get this for up to two years after the baby is born that is what true christ centered compassion looks like not just for the baby but for the mother too and here's where you can make a difference just twenty eight dollars

provides a free life saving ultrasound one chance for a mother to see her baby and this is a real figure when she does she's twice as likely to choose life preborn is trying to save 70 thousand babies this year so don't just say your pro life live it help save babies and support mothers today go to preborn dot com slash Emily or call eight five five six one two two nine that's preborn dot com slash Emily we're joined now by Jason willic who has a wonderful columnist over at the

let's start with your column that I read and thought was so brilliant connecting the filibuster to the war in Iran it was like a stifon s and l moment the swashin post column has everything the legislative filibuster the war in Iran but really it did and this is a very smart point Jason we could put s7 up on the screen the senate filibuster debate has lessons for Trump's war on Iran so true king tell us what they are Jason well it was a little bit of a provocation but

it's not a coincidence that the filibuster as people may know is the 60 vote requirement to pass most legislation and breaking that requirement is sometimes known as the nuclear option so

there's kind of martial metaphors here with the nuclear option but basically what I was saying was

the republicans think basically are arguing for newking the filibuster on the grounds that the democrats will do it first so it's an exercise of deterrence how do you deter the other people

“from not doing not escalating and I think there's a lot going on there in Iran I think specifically”

basically john cornain who's running for senate in Texas says I used to support the filibuster but now the democrats tried to nuke it in 2022 to try to pass this voting bill so now I think that they're just going to nuke it when they come in so there's no point in my posing it anymore we need to strike first basically because mansion in cinema we're sort of the bull work in 2022 neither of them is in the senate anymore doesn't mean that tells us what a ribbon guy I go remember what to do but

Jason what is the mansion in cinema of Iran exactly so the democrats were trying to pass this legislation with 50 votes mansion and break the filibuster with 50 votes mansion in cinema voted

against it they're both now we're basically run out of the party also a voting bill in my

characters it was a voting bill it was going to rewrite sort of state voting laws across the country to have mail-in ballots and the democratic wish list for voting so john cornain says basically we can't be suckers and let them hit us first we need to we need to strike first and so in Iran

“there's a lot going on with deterrence that I think it's kind of similar I think one problem is we've”

already tried to to capitate Iran's regime we you know did this all out attack and which we killed are the Israelis probably killed the iatola and many other senior leaders so if you're a run you might be thinking similarly to john cornain where you think you know why should I de-escalate if they're just going to why shouldn't I just do the nuclear option why shouldn't I go to get a bomb because I can't trust them not to escalate they've already escalated as much as they can so it's a it's a

one one problem I think with this war in Iran is that we escalated maximally so how are we going to get the how are we going to get them to abide by a new sort of detente and a new balance of power if they figure we'd be suckers to do that they just tried to kill us all in the regime and they'll do it again and so I guess I don't know if this is the perfect description but it's almost like it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy mechanism where you say this is going to happen so many

times that it becomes normalized at least I'm thinking of with the filibuster now you have so many Republicans saying democrats are definitely going to do it democrats are definitely going to do it and over the years you get a permission structure for democrats to do it I don't know exactly what the parallel to that is in Iran but it does sometimes feel like in foreign policy world you talk something up to the point almost of inevitability it creates an incentive structure for your quote

enemy to do exactly what you're expecting your enemy to do yeah there's really I've been thinking about a lot in the Iran where there's a self fulfilling nature to a lot of foreign policy like I think the Israelis were sort of thinking this is our last pro-american president we've got to do this

“now this is our last pro-american president and I think I think with the filibuster you're right”

Republicans are saying this is our last chance before they go and nuclear filibuster and

pack the Supreme Court and so maintaining deterrence it requires basically that it's in both

people's interests to do it the democrats say we want nuclear filibuster because that would be bad for us ultimately for Republicans did it and Republicans say we want nuclear filibuster because that would be bad for us if democrats did it it's in both of our interests to maintain this sort of mutual deterrence in Iran I sort of think we had that going we could deter them from closing the state of harm moves we were preventing them from getting a nuclear weapon or at

least setting them back but that's all broken once you once you go for the juggler like this once you go and do it all out attack intended to annihilate a regime then there then there how are that how are you going to deter them anymore once you've already escalated to that degree so I think

both things are going on at the same time and I think people are not thinking so clearly about deterrence and their and deterrence is going to fail as a result of that we in this is a way in which Donald Trump himself is an anomaly and almost the Kissingerian madman figure in foreign policy

which is that he doesn't always set expectations very clearly and that's intentional at

least it seems like it's typically intentional because he's doing exactly what he wrote about in order to deal when it pertains to business deals which also by the way often have international government components to them but he's negotiating in public he's using the media as part of his negotiation and that is a little bit different than Barack Obama setting a red line in Syria which kind of is similar to what we were just talking about actually in terms of foreign policy but

then on the flip side the muddling means that Iran is not just preparing for one expected outcome but like a bunch of them probably and that's I guess perhaps makes it even more difficult for us to anticipate what they're serious about yeah yeah he negotiates in a special way for sure

he puts things out there the most recent is going to blow up the disallent nation plans

other other infrastructure and he's as much right doing that to put it out there and see what the response is as it is a real threat and you notice sort of that he's he's sort of lost

“the ability I think to control the markets like there was a joke you know at the beginning of”

every week when the markets were going to open he would give some de-escalatory gesture and the markets and oil prices would would fall again I think he's sort of losing that ability so at some point you know people people get on to your people figure out what your strategy is I was thinking that recently too with the markets like what comes next because so much of them like even with back to liberation day which were almost at the one year anniversary of so much of that was

him trying to mitigate market consequences and part of that is what he's trying to do now as well yeah no it's very similar this is similar deliberation day in that for one thing you know he was elected on reducing prices and both tariffs and this war in Iran put upward pressure on prices but it's also you know him at the height of his sort of executive power I can set the import rate at whatever I want I can bomb whatever I want the biggest constraint on him

has been the markets and these in these circumstances he is sensitive to the to how the markets respond so he's trying to juke them out but you know we're seeing the limits of that and and it did you

know I think the the term taco originated from the liberation day tariffs and he did ultimately

back down and he could ultimately back down here or not but but I sort of think you know back to the back to the deterrence point it's going to be tough to get back into a mode of subvendee where

“we have deterrence that's why the Iranians want security guarantees they're sort of like”

Ukraine they're like we think you're just going to attack us again Ukraine thinks Russia's going to attack them again if they end the war they probably would Ukrainian think the US and Israel will attack them again if they end the war so they're looking for guarantees it's going to be China is it going to be Russia you're getting into a very complicated sort of set of negotiations to reassure all parties that they can stop that's a really interesting point I also wanted to ask you about this

new audio the free beacon got their hands on the Russian free beacon got their hands on this isn't a lot of good moon story the headline here is quote there are a lot of people in Dearborn who are sad democratic senate hopeful Abdul al-sayed said he needed to stay silent on how many killing because many of Michigan's Muslim voters quote are sad I think this is a really significant

“story Jason but not for the reason that a lot of people are calling it significant I think”

they'll set aside we literally just had Abdul al-sayed on breaking points on on Friday and I take him at his word but he is sincerely against the war based on his sincerely held ideological position it might be something that we can all disagree with but I think he's entirely serious about that what this reveals at least from my perspective is that people who are utterly sympathetic to coming in even by Abdul al-sayed sort of private standard

are a significant electoral force in Michigan that's very interesting because we're constantly told that we don't have to worry about having people who would be like quote sad about a radical Islamic cleric in in Dearborn people would be sad about his death in Dearborn we're constantly being told that's not the case but here we have somebody who is a democrat who is on the left who's saying no that's a real electoral force when they're not in public am I reading too much

into this I think that's a kind of a significant emission yeah I mean one tough thing about

to be critical the war should not imply that you have sympathy for the regime and to you get no

“credit for starting a war against the bad regime that can go badly just as much as if it wasn't a bad”

regime or whatever so I don't give I don't you know when I'm calculating is a war good idea whether the regime is wicked or not it's really a secondary consideration it has to be more about your interests and your strategy but of course there are people who you know not only don't think that it's a bad regime but then are sympathetic to it I mean yeah that's true and that's unfortunate and the anti war political people have to get their support to apparently or at least

are trying not to alienate them in this case in this case of democratic primary obviously a successful democratic politician who is opposing the war would have to say you know I don't shed any tears for I until a how many but but you know Dearborn is is one of the most you know Muslim highest Muslim populations and you know these are how how demographics and political opinions yeah work regionally so which of course you can have a huge concentration of

of Muslim voters and Muslim Americans and Muslim immigrants without then worrying you're going to offend Muslim voters being sad over the death of an deeply anti-American leader I mean we're talking about the death of america regime which is which is still in power even though how many is not and I'm just reading into this it's interesting because it's a really close democratic senate primary and they're all trying to kind of outdo each other on some of these questions the basis obviously

furious about what happened in in Gaza and it's been a real problem for people like Alyssa Slotkin in the state but it is it does seem to me like that's fundamentally a serious problem for the country if candidates are are changing their talking points so is not to you make people angry who might be sad over the death of just an explicitly anti-American leader that seems like a really difficult position as a country to find yourself and if it continues to build.

“Yeah although I do think democrats overestimate this I mean remember that interest Joe Biden”

you know in 2024 what we're told they're sort of the narrative of Biden's evolution on the the Gaza war in Israel was well we're going to lose Michigan we're going to lose Michigan they probably overstated how much supporting Israel would cause them to lose Michigan and it probably made them make worse political decisions frankly so you know this candidate could be could be misleading and to be fair you know even if it's a bad guy you can think you shouldn't

be assassinating heads of state you know and that's a that's a that's a that's a bad precedent so you know I'm not I'm not frankly so it's a fair point no that is a fair point because I mean there's some chatter about how insane it is and blah blah blah I did just execute assassinating though there's like an interesting legal debate that I know you follow Jason on assassinating even oppositional heads of state now I don't think that's really what Abdul Alsaid

was was reference say he was possible that's yeah right but that's it but that's entirely possible that you know for some people it's just a pure objection to the way the United States conducted the

the first strikes which were to to decapitate the regime yeah and I listened to some of the

recording and they were complaining about the Maduro raid as well which that I actually

“support and think I think worked fine but you know you can have questions about this this sort of”

strategy of decapitation which we're now able to do much better thanks to technology and precision weapons and and very sort of high quality surveillance and and all this technology that allows you to just decapitate although of course you know if the sun is taking over they don't even need to change the Twitter handle it can still be harmony it can still be the sun although Trump said we've already changed the regime a friend of mine joked because there was some reporting that the

the sun is gay they said well it said LGBTQ regime and around there's been regime change it's been a radical radical change but from father to son what generation to the next yeah yeah and of course we haven't we haven't heard much from the sun but you know I I don't yeah I think I think Democrat yeah there's obviously a faction in Michigan and in Dearborn that's like you know that has these political views and that this guy's trying to cater to but we'll see I guess the ultimate test will

be how it affects him in the primary and what the Democratic voters say right and how he responds the next few days as well because his opponents are going to use this up as much as they can Jason will like such a pleasure to have you on the show thanks for being here thank you Emily great to have Jason here is as I mentioned a calmness with the Washington Post make sure to follow his writing

it is always super interesting one of the best there alright we have a little bit more coming up

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best option for you at pds debt dot com slash Emily that's pds debt dot com slash Emily again pds debt dot com slash Emily it occurs to me before we wrap up that I haven't mentioned to major cultural questions that I've yet to weigh in on first of all there's a raging debate right now about whether the season of the real housewives of Beverly Hills boring that is ridiculous you people have Jennifer Tilley Rachel Zoe on your screen with Kathy Hilton just those three

“in your complaining about the season being boring it's true it's true I think boes now has a”

little bit too much main character energy I think delete story is deeply boring I think some of the women in the cast could give a little bit more but oh my gosh it's driving me insane I have not been this compelled by a Beverly Hills housewives season in a very long time so I just wanted to quickly say what are why are you talking about that's crazy to me even if it was just Jennifer

Tilley Rachel Zoe Rachel Zoe is doing the work of a million housewives she has them all on

her show she's the weight of the show on her shoulders and then you have Kathy Hilton and Jennifer Tilley adding so much comedic relief that it's astounding to me I think sometimes the like housewife social media echo chamber gets a little I don't know I think it it gets a little too in the weeds and loses the force for the trees so also the comeback has returned to HBO that is not something I thought was happening I like had forgotten there was another season of the comeback

coming to HBO with a great Lisa Coudreau that show is one of the great cultural artifacts of the odds when it came back like 10 years later it was fantastic and it's come back is very interesting right now as well they're kind of grappling with sitcoms and artificial intelligence but

“it's not for everyone it's really really I think brilliant window into the cultural”

plight of like affluent women in coastal bubbles though it does a great job and it has from beginning and so those are just a couple of things I wanted to mention now back to the regularly scheduled programming just decided to go on that tangent because I wanted to and why not all right so Fox News had a great story shout out to Brian Flood and Joseph Wilson over there just counting up all of the legacy news people who have decamped for like substock because the news are here

is that someone you may recognize he's a CBS news reporter named Scott McFarlane announced Monday that he was going to be a like correspondent for mightest touch mightest touch right now by the way is thriving because they recognized that there was this massive audience that had not been served on YouTube for kind of center left stuff basically doing what MS now wants to do and is trying to do but on YouTube with a much lower budget much more nimble schedule

“and editorial abilities so they were originally you probably might remember back in 2020”

a pack if you're on social media you saw it mightest touch constantly in 2020 during the law for law fair heydays they've gotten a little bit more I would say like a little bit less lower case L liberal since then a little bit more like progressive might be one way to put it like anti establishment because that's where the base who's looking for this content on YouTube is and now you have Scott McFarlane just leaving CBS news where he was a reporter for mightest touch

for mightest touch I mean incredible incredible stuff it's another like one of many examples

that absolutely deserves attention so we started with McFarlane you probably know Terry Moran Terry Moran was actually thought to be center right like privately center right for all of the years that he was at ABC news and obviously he had that crazy situation with Steven Miller this was like last spring so it's been basically a year but he's now in keys on sub-stack he's like gone independent and pretty quickly yeah he's on sub-stack pretty quickly said that legacy

media is quote failing the American people and he's said that Mike Johnson quote is worse than the pedophile haster referring to Kenny haster he obviously hates hates hates Donald Trump but again and just going as I go through this trend remember this hatred of Donald Trump and these like for the case of McFarlane these clear progressive biases this clear like liberal biases didn't spring up overnight you don't wake up and say oh I work at mightest touch now and I've

discovered that I'm I'm actually you know a virulently anti-Trump Democrat Katy Kirk this is another example from Fox News also like independent now which is incredibly funny she says she

“feels more liberated quote I think that for so long I had to appeal to this mass audience you know”

the station and I think we all especially women contort ourselves into that you know desire to be likable and I think at some point in my career I just realize not everybody is going to like me well that's very self-aware so points to Katy Kirk for that but I love watching Katy Kirk my

my mom always had the today show on and I'm sure she's watching right now so shot at mom but

always had the today show on and I really loved Katy Kirk and I feel like it was healthier for the country when Katy Kirk was focused on what she was good at doing but anyway let's move on to Don Lemon I'm not even going to go deep into Don Lemon because we were all very familiar with his inspiring arc he has given birth to a new generation of independent journalist covering these stories without fear or favor that will enter the industry inspired by Don over the

course of the next decade and we thank him for that appreciate all the work you're putting in here Don who can forget Jim Acosta the savior of the independent media the savior of the free press in Trump 1.0 who over and over again liked Don Lemon basically insisted that he was just calling balls and strikes this is what Tara Moran and Scott McFarlane just drops by the way we're like explicitly to do and they just suddenly like took the mask off again overnight basically Acosta

leaves CNN because CNN is trying to adapt and he said in his closing monologue as the fox article points out don't give it no lives lies don't give into the fear hold on to the truth

“and to hope even if you have to get out your phone record that message I will not give into the lies”

I will not give into the fear post it under social media people can hear from you too okay he has since just again gone totally mask off he is clearly an ideological anti-conservative figure that's how I would describe a lot of these people by the way it's not even a say that they're pro-progressivism a lot of them are just like deeply anti-conservative they just don't you know that maybe they're moderate on some issues they're certainly not like leftists for the most part on foreign

policy or on economics right like these are people who generally like low taxes and low crime and you know aren't super into experimenting with criminal justice reform or like anti-imperial foreign

policy then really into that stuff but that's why they go wherever the never trump wind blows we see

it over and over again with these folks a couple of other examples that I wanted to bring up remember banner rather Dan rather now is sadly kind of an aging joke but Dan rather when he left legacy media he has since become also virulently not just anti-Trump but anti-conservative Soladado Brian another one in Chris Cuomo's or Don Lemon's handoff buddy Chris Cuomo again who were on apples in banana CNN during Trump 1.0 we're CNN was saying some networks this is an apples some

“networks might try to say it's a banana I think this is one of the most important cable news”

advertisements or marketing campaigns ever produced CNN was was claiming to be different from Fox News

by intentionally not like both sidesing the news both sidesing is as always a little bit of

all sidesing meaning all perspectives that are within it's the hardest thing for any news organization within the kind of spectrum of belief among the American public so is this a significant force in electoral politics you know people who are skeptical of this skeptical of that and often it's not a both sides thing often it's you find some like progressive Democrats and hardcore Republicans who are against this campaign in Syria for example but they don't

even get to that side they'll just say this Republicans says you know it's that Biden is a bad commander in chief and this Democrat says no this is important and we trust President Biden that's not both sides I mean I guess it's like both sides of the political establishment but that's where

the kind of pejorative reference to both sides always fails but was so fascinating about all

of these people and solid out of Brian there's another one all of these people is that right now they position themselves as champions of independent media and a new media like Katie Kirk talking about how she's been liberated is true to some extent right they are living the life that Jake Tapper wishes he can live where you have your shirt untucked and you're just in your office with a microphone and you're chopping it up with your guests on a couch like this is what they're

trying to do at CNN but it's also yet has Jim Acosta found an audience I guess like Chris Salazar seems to be finding something of an audience yes but what their model is is really low overhead and a niche of subscribers and and if you're able to like Stephen Colberted how we started after party back in June talking about Stephen Colbert being the least funny in the most political

but the top rated hosts and late night for much of Trump's first term why did that work well again

it certainly wasn't low budget hence some of his problems now but it was for a it was trying to cultivate a loyal niche and you can sometimes do that with partisan appeals right to people's tribal

“loyalty and I actually think that's why you see so much kind of banal never Trumpism from a lot of”

these folks they don't really display open minds they aren't really exhibiting a rejection of the political establishment they kind of think they are because some of the establishment has flirted with Trumpism from now big tech to from big tech to some of the media companies like CBS being a good example I'm sure that's why it's gotten like farland felt comfortable ditching CBS for new media because my just touch is now like literally rolling in gold presumably

so all that is to say is it successful competing to really be a significant player stream of information in the long run I think that's a question that's only because really really really have to ask themselves because I suspect actually that they're still operating in many cases on speaking fees like they get some of their income or a lot of their income from speaking fees and and also that the subscriber base isn't super super durable because at the end of the day

what people want from their media is honesty and transparency and if what you're doing is just this faux version of honesty and transparency it is the symbolic untucked shirt from Jake Tapper

“which I think is also what you get from like a jima costa do I believe that jima costa is this”

passion about things I mean maybe he is but they're also just kind of performatively gesturing

constantly to anti-Trumpism never trumpism that you can see it in the guests that they have on

for the most part and you know you don't sense that they have a lot of independent thought that isn't still the programming from big corporate media outlets that was ingrained in their minds for decades and it's not interesting it's honestly not interesting and you don't really fully believe that it's transparent and that it's you know on the one hand it's like kind of desperate and ideological but on the other hand I don't know that they're really capable of independent thought

it's just you sort of see more honestly what they talk about at the cocktail party circuit in New York City and in in Georgetown here in DC like you're just getting bad and frankly what we're learning is it's it's really uninteresting and I don't think that's super sustainable

“some of them are doing great I think jima costa sub sack is like fairly successful”

but will be successful it will be an enduring force in politics and media unless there's a change I highly doubt that I mean it's enough with the low overhead and it's based around it revolves around one person essentially for him to probably make an okay living and you can supplement it in

condensed themselves there in this like guys that they have their that they're fingering the pulse

“so that was that a colbertism back during the colbert reporter was that John Stewart fingering the”

pulse comes to my mind that that was something in the the odds in the 2010s they really think

they are they really think they are and that's it's just because they're continuing to exist in

“these same echo chambers the same cocktail party circuits where everybody's always patting each other”

on the back and knocking everyone else over the back of the head as being stupid and toothless

rooms and they're still part of that so some some happy thoughts to end the show tonight

“thanks so much for tuning in everyone appreciate it Emily it doesn't make care of media.com”

as well we can email me make sure to subscribe on YouTube it's super helpful like comment subscribe on your podcast feeds and we'll be back here on Wednesday live at 9 pm Eastern with more happy hour have a good one everyone