The data center war

Convertible, are we sure just hot enough for that? My man, that's a little aggressive, okay. Okay, so a couple weeks ago, I've read a story in jay.com. And it was all about how there's a day-to-setter going up in Comberland County, the poorest county in New Jersey. That's receiving some community pushback.

And this has immediately got my attention, because data centers are going up all across the country, and it feels like it gives you more people to be talking about. According to a once down I saw, there's more than 4,000 data centers already across America, and more than 2,000 that have been announced or are already under construction. That's kind of crazy.

I feel like we should be hearing politicians talk more about this, but we haven't really heard a consensus. One member of Congress told me that he wants to see a moratorium on data centers, but the Senator told me recently that he thinks they're a necessary evil as things like AI become a bigger part of our economy and our society.

So that let me to think, let's do some journalism ourselves, and figure out what people actually think. Our data centers really are necessary evil. Let's find out. Now, just as a podcast and a record from now on,

“to Al-Dinhardt, for $1.99, what do you think of Al-Dinhardt?”

Uh-huh. And for $9.50, you know your new book, you see. To Al-Dinhardt, if you're still using it, click "good". Then try the Asia Green Garden or the Nudel Bowl. $2.99.49 for $1.99, or "Mesani Sane K-4", $2.50.50 for $9.50, that's good for Al-Dinhardt.

What's up, y'all? I'm Skyler Diggins, seven-time WMBA All Star, Olympic gold medalist, and mom. And I'm Cassidy Hubbard, post and reporter for nearly 20 years covering the biggest names and stories in sports and mom. And this is M-Mom, a community for athletes, game changers, and moms of all kinds, dropping May 14. Tap in with us.

So I just got to vinyl in Nudel, Jersey. And I'm here to look at the data-1 data center. This just started construction early last year, and we're already starting to see some community pushback on it. So much so that data-1 has actually delayed its plans for expansion.

And this has also been showing up in the political arena too.

Southern New Jersey is home to New Jersey's second congressional district,

and there's some Democrats who have been making this the focus of their campaigns, hoping to really seize on the community backlash on the issue. One of those Democrats is named Bailey Winder, who we're going to talk to in a second. Now Bailey's a young person who's really tried to throw town halls on this issue. He spoke to City Council, and he's really been saying that the community was not included in the process

by which this data center went into construction. And there's a lot of concerns on the energy front, on the environmental front, and simply just a lot of noise. So I want to try to untangle this, and let's figure out what's actually going on here. Thank you for being our tour guide, dear.

I appreciate the chance to be with you.

“Can you just give us a sense of what we're outside right now?”

This is the new data center in vinyl and New Jersey, we're here in Cumberland County, and just look at the size of this thing. It is gigantic. Give me a sense of the scope of this thing. Like, how large are we talking about? How far is this extent?

It is huge, and we're talking 350 megawatts, 2.6 million square feet.

Wow. But one thing I say to people is, until you're in front of this, you see it in person. It's hard to put it in perspective. This is not just another project. It is something that's one largest data center in the whole Northeast.

People know this was happening, was there community input? Like, before we get to the sense of backlash now, take me what happened there. Sure. So, one of the big frustrations, one of the big reasons why there have been so many concerns

when the community is because of what you're pointing to,

“which is I think the process was expedited, and it was shoved through.”

And a lot of facts, we know that, or is that something that's... That's based on what I'm hearing from people in the community. There are a lot of concerns about energy and the environment and all. Part of it is plain and simple that this is a hyperscale sized data center. And a lot of folks here in violent across South Jersey felt like they were not notified

until it was too late until this had already taken off. And if you look at what's happening across city council meetings, which is the first way that I really got involved with this issue, back in last fall, we are not going anywhere. Not next week, not next month, not after a postpone vote.

Because this issue is doing something powerful,

it is bringing the community together, left, right, and center. People disagree about almost everything in politics right now,

and versus political deals that enable them to get the red carpet rolled out.

Most city council meetings people don't show up, right? Local politics are to get people to turn out. These city council meetings were packed. I mean, standing room only because people were saying wait a minute, what is going on here, where was our consultation?

And why haven't we had more town halls, more chances to have it back and forth? The writing is on the wall for what lies ahead for our city, and you sit here staring blankly, or doodling on your papers. There are still steps you can take to speak up and protect us from potential harm. We have reached out to council on multiple occasions, both here and personally.

I'm here to offer that conversation again.

“We're ready to talk to you, you need to meet us here.”

We're mostly here for two reasons specifically like one. We want to think about the issue of data centers. I'm kind of wondering, is this about process or people thinking that things are changing too quickly around them, is about energy costs, this is about, you know, the noise or inconvenience? That's kind of one question in my head.

But another one that's just kind of thinking about where Democrats are going to go on this. I've heard politicians say everything like there needs to be a moratorium on data centers to say things like they're kind of a necessary evil in our age of AI.

I let's start with a second one.

We're from where you see it. You know, one could say that this puts something like Comberland County in the present that it helps create jobs for our changing work economy. What's your response to that? My response is that I'm pro-development, but I'm pro-responsible development.

“And I think the way this project has developed has not put the community first”

and has not had enough community input. So we know AI is here to stay, we know this sector is going to be part of what drives the American economy for decades to come. But the consequences of something like this once it's up and running are huge. But what I'm here for you doesn't sound like a complete opposition

to a data center in this community or even, you know, development like this overall. It sounds like the concern is more in how this happened, at least right now, is that fair? My belief is that we need to have a short-term moratorium nationwide on data center development because it's moving too fast and because the impact is extreme in some cases. So I don't think that should be years and years, but I think the government needs to intervene right now

and make sure that there are guardrails in place. I had read that Comberland County was the poorest county in New Jersey. I want to circle back to that with the question of jobs. Data 1 would say they're helping provide a service for a community that needs it. I guess what I was hearing you say is the process has been the problem.

So data centers are pretty extractive type of project because the energy consumption, the way they're developed and then they talk about a few hundred jobs.

Well, first of all, there's no guarantee that those jobs will come into fruition.

That's sort of based on a corporate pitch on why this project is good. And I think you need independent verification of that and you need close monitoring of that. Another thing I'll say is that at one of the city council meetings I spoke at a union group came and said if you're going to have jobs for this project, at least have them be union jobs. And that does not happen on the scale that I think is sufficient either.

But there's a reason I believe why a lot of data centers are coming into communities where they think they can come in aggressively without a lot of pushback. Partially because of what you just said. I'm like, yeah, is there the happens stands that this is going up in the community of most need. Maybe doesn't have the same type of political agency.

I mean, I've seen some of the protests that have happened here and places across the country. What do you think is most driving this backlash to data centers? And do you think kind of federal politicians are hearing you? So I think people are just concerned about their day-to-day life.

“This is a kitchen table issue where here in New Jersey life is so expensive already with taxes,”

with the cost of housing and education you name it. So energy bills are already unaffordable for a lot of folks. And the concerns around this are that it's not credible to have something of this size without creating more impact there. That's what I was going to ask. Do we know, causally, that this raises New Jersey's energy prices?

Well, what we do know is that nationally data centers are about five percent now of electricity consumption. What we do know is that this project's development has coincided with a large spike in energy bills. And it's not credible to me that there's zero correlation there. I think part of the problem that you're speaking to is the lack of information though. Yeah. I think it's important to recognize that this is something that is so novel that we don't know a lot of what's going to happen.

And that's what's driving some of that fear. Yeah. Yeah. I hear what you're saying that it's not necessarily that we have all this clear evidence that this data center leads to higher energy prices. Or inherently displaces all these folks. But we do know that this is happening so quickly and this is so new that it's driving a lot of anxiety among these people. Right. I heard that data wanted to lay the hearing with the city council after some of this public pushback.

And I'm pleased to meet kind of one of my final questions like, do you think that they're hearing some of this?

Absolutely. So we organized a rally about a month and a half ago.

And it was not just me. It was multiple organizations coming together including environmental groups. That rally was really well attended. It was people who were Democrat Republican independent coming together because one thing about this issue is it's bipartisan in the community concern. We held that rally. We had a bunch of different speakers and several days later. The Violence City Government decided to postpone a vote by two months on whether or not to expand the site.

I wonder if how much of your position is reflected in constituency. Do you think residents are on your side in terms of maybe just wanting to pause? But kind of recognizing where AI plays its role in the future? Or do you think it's a more full-scale opposition where they want this data center gone and they don't want one of these here again?

“I think the opposition's very strong. That's why I get messages all the time on social media from people who are really worried.”

This data center is underway and we're not going to get it fully canceled. But there are measures that can be taken in the next couple of months when it comes to the possibility of expansion. Tax breaks, water usage, and that's really where my focus is on being a pragmatist about this and understanding that we can have legislation that can include those protections. But there's no way this project should have happened in this way. It's actually an insult to the community.

And what it's done is create, I think, a story we've seen a million times before in America.

But that's now on a scale that's really scary, which is I think of it in terms of is a big district. I'm driving around a lot. This data center project was in the easy past lane and community concerns have been stuck in the traffic in the right hand lane. And that's a disconnect that I think is unacceptable. We have a kind of a stereotype of how hard it is to build in America and how many much, how much red tape is put up before things go up.

And it's kind of like we're describing a process here that's the opposite. Then when it comes to these sorted things, they've gone up fast enough where folks don't even feel like they've had a moment for that kind of community concern.

“I think it's a great point because when it comes to affordable housing part of how we unlock that is critical thinking around bureaucracy and red tape.”

There's a lot that can be cut down there. The question is, how did a project of this size get up and running so fast? Okay, so now can you actually drive me around this data center so we can get a sense of just the scope of this thing? Absolutely, let's do it. All right, so about how big is parsley? Finally, it's one of the larger cities in the district, but it's also as you can see around here, there's just a lot of lands. I got to say, like, you know, it's not that I expected the data center to be aesthetically pleasing.

But they have made this maybe the most other aesthetically pleasing structure humanly possible. The immediately comes to mind is like prison like, but it's just the kind of drab brutalist block. It is, it's very imposing, it's very cold. I think you can understand why folks around here are concerned about their property prices. Yeah, I've talked with people who said, I'm petrified about not being able to sum my home. Yeah.

And, yeah, there it is. There we are.

20 million gallons of water per year.

Wow. And when you think about the risks these days of extreme weather in the summertime, right? You're going to have situations where the farmers are competing for water with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for trying me around. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Yeah. We're going to be at the Town Hall tonight. Hi. I'm Maria Sharipova, host of the Pretty Tough Podcast. Each episode, I sit down with high-achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without apology. This week, journalist Dina USC, and now, along with her husband, Bob Eiger, owner of the Angel City FC woman soccer team.

Willow Bay. I said, Bob, are you interested in doing this? And he said, absolutely. But I was definitely the driving force I think in the conviction about Angel City. Check out Pretty Tough. New episodes on Wednesdays.

You can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app. I'm Mitch Furz. Two-time indie-racell champion, championship MVP, and forward for the US Women's National Team. Before I went pro, I graduated from Harvard with a degree in psychology. Which comes in handy more than you think.

“Any athlete pursuing greatness knows there's a certain mentality you have to have.”

What people don't know is what that costs. In my podcast, Confessions of Really Athlete, I sit down with the best athletes in the world and explore the psychology mindset and unseen battles on the path to greatness. So, take a seat and learn from the confessions of an elite athlete on YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Network and Chill, we're diving into another edition of M.I. the Ashole Finance Edition.

I'm breaking down real stories from real people who are navigating financial situations that range from mildly awkward to absolutely unhinged. And I'm giving you my unfiltered take on who's in the right and who needs a serious reality check.

Because let's be real when it comes to mixing relationships and finances, someone's always asking if they're the asshole.

Learn how to set boundaries, protect your wealth, and avoid becoming the villain in your own financial story. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts, or watch on YouTube.com/yourrichbff. So, we're at the Hocus Community Center in Bridge to New Jersey. That's the next step in our story. And we're here because there will be a resident town hall for all the folks around here who have been affected by the data-1 data center.

Now, we know this call, some community backlash, and we know that Bailey Winder, the Congressional candidate, has been trying to channel that in his run for Congress. So, we've decided to join along with him in his latest town hall to see what residents are actually thinking about it. Let's take a look. We're going to go ahead and get the ball roll on here. My name is Bailey Winder, running for Congress in this year's election. Hoping to bring some change to South Jersey, bring some new leadership to South Jersey.

We are here tonight to talk about a number of things, but first and foremost to talk about an issue that I know matters a lot across this community across the country. That is data centers, and the way that they are being developed, the way that they are getting approvals, are not getting approvals and who is stepping up.

“And I think it's really important that we understand that this is something that is happening all over the place.”

And it's also something that's bipartisan. It really doesn't feel left versus right to me. It feels more like, are you standing with the community or not? Are you putting the community first or not? I think the message in this case is, you have government looking out for the wrong people, and having the wrong set of priorities. So I'll stop there. I thank you so much and I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Don't. Just as a federal legislature, what would you offer as far as legislation goes, they help protect the state of the country? There's a host of answers for that. I'll start with the data center point specifically, which is that I believe we need a pause in order to make sure that the guardrails are in place. It's not saying we don't want development. We do want development. We want jobs. We want South Jersey's economy to become stronger,

but it cannot happen at the expense of the community. I would imagine with firemen and council, they probably like you or like, I don't know the specifics of how much pollution in the air and how you measure all that. So I would imagine that you would also rely on people that are experts in that field to tell you what would be acceptable, or what would not be acceptable, or what the threshold should be with that should be.

So that would be something that would happen through, I guess, the DEP.

“Well, I think the DEP plays a role in it, but part of what you're pointing to, which is a problem across our country,”

and I was that experts and science is not being invested in. And we have to understand that this technology has been around for a while, but it's also novel in some ways.

One, the data one CEO came to do his presentation. He said this is technology we've never seen before.

Right. Well, that could be a good thing, but that's also a scary thing to hear. Experiment. We're experimenting down here. We're really getting things. Right. Exactly. Exactly. How many employees are this place supposed to bring?

Yeah, it's a good question. They say a couple of hundred. Two and a half million square feet. Yeah. The amount of electricity that you said it's like. About twice that of violence.

Okay. How can they support that?

“How can that possibly be supported with today's grid?”

Right. One thing that happens in this country is there's no planning for the future.

I mean, government, we're certainly doesn't seem to be that we're planning out. Our infrastructure is never updated.

You've got to invest in here and not just looking at somebody's building because who benefits with that building? It's not the people of this town where the county or the state. What's going to happen? So, it's on my house. I told you, I was just in the office in the south of February. And because I need to know where my children are.

My husband passed my mom passed and it's time to go over there. People come in. I have a woman who came back. Twice had cash and realized it was near the data center for children. And mom, she says, I just can't do this. Yeah.

We're going to people are going to do this. Yes. That's right. This is not about abstract politics. It's about people's everyday lives and livelihoods and quality of life. I thank you all so so much.

I hope we can talk more and grateful for the conversation.

We're just going to have asked them in the block scenes. We'll come up here and ask them people. Excellent. I'd like to ask for minutes. So, my name's at Stanford.

I'm a policy journalist. I post a podcast at box. That's all about elections. It's called America. Actually, I would love to ask you all just a couple like Show of Hands. Questions to get a sense of how you're feeling about this.

And then maybe we'll hear some individual stories.

“How many of you right now feel like you got information about the data center before the construction started?”

No, nobody. Okay.

Can someone raise their hand and just tell me what their biggest concern was once they started hearing about it?

Well, when I saw it, I thought it was the uglyest thing I've ever seen. So, that part of East Island is beautiful. Farmer and was beautiful farmland. But then, of course, I thought about it a lot of my friends that live out that way. And how was going to impact their everyday life?

Most people live there because they love the farmland. Now, I know about the structure. I know about kind of energy concerns. I wanted to ask about AI generally. Like, how many of you would say that you're concerns about this data center are tied to larger concerns about AI and kind of some anxiety around that?

The internet taught us the best of the world and the worst of the world. It's okay.

AI is going to do the same thing.

It's already begun. You know, I scroll through Facebook and there's an AI. It's all over a plate. Yeah. Some of its cute little bunnies and cats, but a lot of the other stuff.

You know, and it's bad. Again, our government is very slow to react. There has to be some regulation.

“Last question would be, where would you now put this on your scale of issues?”

There's so much happening right now, whether it be worn around their tariffs as someone mentioned or just generally there's so much going on. I wonder where data centers and this specific local reality now for you all maps onto your importance of issues. I would say most of the topics fall into two categories. Is it benefiting people or is it benefiting daily and the money that's going into their pockets? You know, we say people trading before the war is announced.

And they're benefiting from it. And I just find it all very disgusting. Personally. Yeah. I'm really happy with the inside or information.

Here we're just saying, well, one hand, there's a kind of politics way of thinking about this and one bucket or another. But you're like, it actually feels like in general, they're not responding to you the regular person. And that's across a lot of issues. Oh, yeah, that's how I say it. Yeah, I feel the same way, it's because everything relates from the top down.

And what we're getting from the top has spread all the way to the local level. And it isn't good. Thank you all for, for entertaining our questions. And I think, well, I think it's illuminating here the way these issues are connected for people. And I think just this general sentiment that folks fill on her.

And we know what you feel that way. We are that way. Yeah, I do. Thank you all for your time. We really appreciate it.

Now, we just finished talking to violent residents about this data center. And I think it got us a lot closer to figuring out what people actually think about this issue. Now, let's recap what they said. They're mad about the process and the substance of this. They feel as if they were included in the conversation.

And they're also seeing things like their electricity bills go up and things like energy prices go up. Now, we don't know if their electricity bills are directly related to the expansion of this data center, but it's driving the political backlash. And that's clear here on the ground. So if I think back to what some of the politicians in Washington told us that data centers are a necessary evil,

I think they've got another thing coming to them when they actually talk to people on the ground. America actually will be in your feeds every Saturday with an interesting interview in politics or culture. And of course, you can listen to America actually wherever you get your podcasts or on the today explaining, feed.

“Now, the best way to support our podcast and to support box is by becoming a box member.”

You can sign up by going to box.com/members. See you next week. Keep the same music. [Music]