The Making of Malcolm X

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with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com/subscribe to bring the past alive. The moment came in quiet, sitting with pen and paper writing a letter to his brother about the strain and monopnea of incarceration, of the harsh living conditions, and the toll taken on his physical health as a prisoner of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

It was 1950 and this man known to friends and family as Malcolm had entered a new phase of life, deeply reconsidering his purpose and place in the world, his very identity. Like so many black men in America, his last name, Little, was not really his, that arbitrary surname had traveled down through generations through at least a century of

“American history until it rested on him. Malcolm Little, but now under the spiritual guidance”

of the nation of Islam, he had decided to part ways with that identity, to shed that name, and claim a new one that represented freedom, strength, autonomy.

Finishing the letter he signed off to his brother and for the first time,

added the new signature that would incoming years become famous the world over. Malcolm X. Hello American history hit listeners. I'm Don Wilde and your host. Thanks for punching us up.

Here in the US, as I speak, we're in the second half of Black History Month, 2026. And fittingly, we explore today the life and ideas of one of America's most compelling

critics, thinkers, and orders, a man unflinching in his willingness to confront the racial inequities

of this nation, forthrightly, and on his own terms at a time when racist laws and policies were woven into the fabric of American life. Malcolm X spoke truth to power, plainly, and without apology in the heady days of the civil rights movement, delivering a message that made many people of this country very uncomfortable. But he did it with such perceptive intelligence and charisma that even now, more than 60 years after his passing, his undeniable presence endures.

We discuss this consequential figure with Professor Clarence Lang, the Susan Welch Dean of the College of the Liberal Arts at Penn State University and a professor of African American studies historian of Black urban history and social movements and author of several acclaimed books examining race power and protest in 20th century America. Professor Lang, Clarence, Glad to welcome you. Thank you for having me, Don. Good to be here.

Before we turn to the formative events of his early life, let's define the movement in which

“Malcolm X will come to place a major role. I think it will help the audience to sort of back up”

for a moment and understand this. Black nationalism was an international movement of the early 20th century that continues on today really, but arose in response to, of course, centuries of degradation felt by Black populations around the world. The result of colonialism, slavery, Black exploitation. How had Black nationalism in America addressed those issues differently than elsewhere? Well, thank you for that question because it gives me an opportunity to say

that that Black nationalism as a stream of thought predates the 20th century. It goes back well into the 19th century somewhat argue even earlier and as a constellation of ideas, Black nationalism coherent around the idea of Black people as being a people. They were not just simply so to speak Americans of a dark and hue, even before that concept existed, but that they were a people that had the right to sovereignty, to self-determination. And the focus was on the creation

of independent autonomous institutions to serve and advance their interests. So it's a long-standing theme and certainly in the 20th century that tradition endured, for example, in the work of individuals like Marcus Garvey, founder of the Universal Negro Improvement Association, a Caribbean immigrant who helped to codify and modernize the Black nationalist tradition in the beginning of the 20th century, right? But it goes back much further than that. And it was one of we could say

two broad responses collectively by Black people in response to their conditions in North America or the United States being more specific. So there's one tradition of Black people lobbying

in rights, citizenship, and so forth. And that's a long-standing tradition of itself,

“but you also have this long-standing Black nationalist tradition, not always”

antithetical to those goals, was very much fixated on Black people building based on their own resources in interests, pursuing their interests as a corporate collective sovereign group, including, right, and some iterations of Black nationalism demands for land-based independence. So it could take a number of different forms, and so that's one particular trend. And you know, sometimes they could be very separate and distinct and sometimes civil traditions

overlap, but they are very particular. Yeah, it's a fascinating time because I mean, this is all against the backdrop, of course, of segregation and Jim Crow, as far as the American

story goes in the first half of the 20th century. It's about asserting, as you say, self-determination,

politically, economically, culturally, outside the constraints necessarily of white dominated society, fair to say. That's correct. And it's important to me to sketch this, because there's a lot of people that don't understand how much was happening in this world, certainly in those decades, among Black communities, spurred on by the Great Migration, which was happening around the World War I timeframe and before that, this enormous amount of

migration northward. And as families took root in these new places and there's generations happening,

“a new sensibility was happening in American Black communities, as far as how do we move onward?”

And that was kind of a split. There was sort of a fork in the road between the Booker 2, Washington School of Thinking, where you kind of assimilate or accommodate versus reforming the world that you're in. Am I correct in in how I'm framing this? Yes, so certainly the broad strokes are absolutely correct. And I appreciate that you have given me an opportunity to talk a little bit more about the specific experiences that Black people were encountering in the late 19th and early

20th century. There had been a major civil war around the issue of slavery, slavery had been destroyed as a consequence of that war based on the self-activity of Black people themselves and the context of that war. There was a period, several decades of reform, interracial reform, known as Reconstruction, and that particular project whereby Black people were brought into citizenship, were holding elected office. Was over time, certainly by the 1880s, had been largely dismantled

due to a vigorous counter-revolutionary view will or reaction to Reconstruction. And that's

the story and out of the ashes grows a new system of racial domination that we can refer to as segregation or Jim Crow or Jim Crow segregation, whereby Black people were no longer in the legal sense slaves, but their conditions economically and politically were essentially as non-citizens. And so this is the really important fork in the road where there are some activists who who argue for the need to lobby to restore and even expand those rights. And then there were others

“who argue the best thing that Black people can do under these circumstances is think about how we”

build on our own internal resources to serve our particular needs. And that was more of the if you will the Black Nationalist standpoint. Now you mentioned Booker T. Washington in this and he's a very interesting figure because in many respects some of his foundational ideas were very influential and paralleled a number of Black Nationalist ideas, the idea that you built separate and distinct autonomous institutions outside of the purview of white control and domination.

And of course he had his detractors because there were some people who argue, "Well, if the state does not recognize your rights as a citizen, then you can build businesses, acquire property and would have you, but how do you protect and maintain it if you're not considered a legal citizen?" So there were contradictions, but in fact Booker T. Washington had an influence on Garvey. In fact, when Markets Garvey came to the United States, he had wanted to meet

Booker T. Washington, but by that time Washington had died. So can we say that Booker T. Washington was a Black Nationalist? Perhaps not. But some of his ideas were very foundational to Black Nationalist thought in the 20th century, certainly. As we speak about Malcolm X, there is an enormous context to Malcolm X. And that is what is so remarkable about him, how he distinguishes his argument from what is so rich and layered in his youth, even with his own father, who was a Garvey

early life and we will probably circle back to a lot of this kind of talk just so you just so the

“audience understands this. Malcolm X comes along fourth of seven children born May 19, 1925,”

Malcolm Little, in Omaha, Nebraska. His father was Earl Little, originally of Georgia, mother Louise from the Caribbean Island of Grenada. They had met in Montreal. This is a fascinating chapter. I mean, I can't tell you, I of course read so much earlier in my life as part of history classes and so forth. But coming back to it as an older man, it is so interesting to see the paths of so much going on that laid the groundwork for experiences we all had inside and outside

that world in the 20th century. If you were lucky enough to be this old, Earl Little was a Baptist lay preacher, leader of the Universal Negro Improvement Association, UNIA. There was a chapter in Omaha. So Malcolm is surrounded by these ideas of Garveyism as a youngster. And when he's six, the little's moved to Lansing, Michigan. And in the years following run into that, which so many black families ran into in those days. The housing restrictions imposed upon them by municipalities

“in the north. Can you explain how these experiences affected the family and Malcolm?”

Yeah, thank you for that question. So first and foremost, because of Earl Little's occupation as

Iitinerate preacher and organizer of the UNIA that the family's life was was Iitinerate. And so they moved around a bit. And I should mention that Malcolm's mother, we don't talk about this enough, Louise Little, was also involved with the UNIA, was an active member and organizer as well. And as a result of their activities, very open political organizing, they were often targeted by local white supremacists. So they moved around a bit. In fact, one of Malcolm's earliest memories

was of a bombing that occurred at his home where the family had to to evacuate. Or that was one episode, another episode, you know, he talks about in this autobiography. His mom being pregnant, nightwriters show up to the home. They're looking for Earl Little. And she's able to persuade

“them to leave by virtue of her being visibly pregnant and alike. So they live very much on a knife's”

edge. And, you know, not only did they move around, but certainly when they ended up settling in a Lindsey Michigan area, rather than submit to segregated housing in that community, they built their own home on the outskirts of that town. And so they lived a bit of a rural experience. They had a rural lifestyle. It was often hand to mouth. But within that, they practiced a great deal of self-reliance. So they grew a lot of their food. Their mom was very strict about their diet and was resisted

to their eating pork, even though their father Earl Little was comfortable with that. But it was all part of trying to practice under-dores self-reliance in the ways that they could. And that was very hard on the family. There was domestic abuse that occurred driven in part by the pressures they faced externally. And certainly in early 1930s during the depression, Malcolm's father died under various suspicious circumstances. Malcolm, you know, asserts that his father was killed

by local nightwriters, clan members, and alike. And I certainly would vote within the realm of possibility. That was not the official finding. But that certainly created the context that intensified the economic and social pressures on the family. Because here you have now Louise Little trying to feed a growing family. She ended up having another child with another gentleman who subsequently abandoned the family. So we're talking about eight children at that point. And she was

very prideful or at least used to describe that way. But she at a certain point, state authorities were able to intervene, take most of the children, put them into foster care. She herself was committed to a mental facility where she stayed for the greater part of her life, well into the 1950s or thereabouts. So the family was broken up over that and Malcolm ended up in foster care and that intensified the instability of the life that he was experiencing as a young boy. All of this before

he is 10 years old, death of his father, the breaking up the family, a lot of moving around all against a very proud story of resistance and understanding this world through the eyes of self-determination

and so forth. And that's an incredible, what a, what a, what a, what a call during to grow up in.

His response to this, we will talk about it in a moment. But I want to circle back to more discussion about what we were saying before because we're going to run into something called the Nation of Islam. And I want to understand, we're in Michigan at this point in his childhood and

center of all of this. And at this time, there is a movement towards the creation of this element

“of Black nationalism. Can you describe how this happens? Yeah, thank you for that question.”

It's interesting that the 1930s is a period where a lot of the 1920s, but certainly we see a proliferation in the 1930s of a number of small Black nationalist sects or organizations. The Nation of Islam was one of them. Nation of Islam was not the only one who was formed in early 1930s and Detroit, Michigan. To some extent, it was a reflection of the crisis of the Great Depression, this period of economic turmoil and crisis that sent a lot of people certainly in Black communities

to what we might call millenarian religious and political organizations, trying to make meaning out of the crisis this serious economic calamity. This occurred in white communities as well. So you have individuals like Father Kaufflin who are able to appeal to masses of people who are looking

“for leadership and guidance in this particular moment. So the Nation of Islam is one organization”

along the lines that emerges from that standpoint is led by an individual named Elijah Poole who becomes Elijah Muhammad, the messenger of Elijah himself. But it's a small tiny organization that this time, Malcolm's family, at that moment, doesn't have any interaction with the Nation of Islam. But these are our parallel developments that are occurring as Black people are trying to figure out how to address defined meaning to find direction, to find momentum, movement for during the

depression, one of many manifestations. Yeah, and it's about turning the story over flipping the story, if you will, about how Black and white America and Black and white people around the world have come to pass. I mean, there's a mythology involved. There's all kinds of stuff involved in this,

“but it's, it's very definitely saying, this is our time. The 20th century is when this comes”

to pass for 6,000 years, white people have been dominating this place, we let them do it essentially, and now the time has changed and we're going to deal with this now in a different sort of way. And out of this comes this form of Black nationalism, which is the Nation of Islam in the 20s and 30s, this is what Malcolm X will participate in for the rest of his life once he joins the end of this. But before that happens, we have a lot of events that happen otherwise, which really lay the

groundwork for him out of this cauldron of a childhood and then teenage life, and his large family, which begins its own diaspora of sorts, Malcolm X ends up in trouble, which happens to so many kids of whoever they are. You know, out of such a unstable situation, he is a, I have to say at the top, I'm revisiting the autobiography of Malcolm X, you know, the Alex Hailey book. Malcolm X, I said to my wife incredibly charismatic man, the storytelling that comes out of his life in that book

is remarkable. And the explanation of where it all fit for him, the detail of those first eight chapters

is remarkable, recall of so many different events that happened on, you know, as he was growing up, it's a rebellious childhood. He ends up committing petty crimes after being discouraged by a teacher that he wanted to be a lawyer. World War II comes along. He does not wish to fight. It's an interesting event. He decides to get himself declared mentally unfit. What a remarkable human being and resourceful person we're talking about even against the odds in which he sets up for himself, right? That's correct.

And, you know, I mean, to take even a step backwards, you know, as a, what we would call a pre-adolescent and early adolescent, even with all of the hardship he had experienced, there had been the possibility of maybe a different life path for him. So he ended up in a school where he was very popular. He was an athlete. He was voted class president. He enjoyed school. He was in the sense, and we might call it an integrated environment. And so, but he has this encounter with one of his

teachers who he tended to think of as a good person and his teacher asked him what his aspirations were

and he hadn't thought much about it, but he sort of the first thing that came to his mind was

being a lawyer and his teacher, this person who he thought he could trust that he thought he knew basically told him that his goals were not realistic for a black person. Of course, he didn't use the word black and that he should think about a more practical life course that would involve working with with his hands. And so here you have this this individual who could see a broad horizon of possibilities and that was extinguished in his own telling in that particular moment. So he became

a fist going to reform school and there was another family that intervened, but his trust and this is why in part he was so rabbit a critic of racial integration because he had himself experienced it and saw the flaws, but the trust that he had in those interactions with a white majority were pretty much dashed. And so he became from that standpoint cynical and you know, I'm making a longer long story short, right? But that led to his drift into petty hustling,

the idea that there was not a legitimate path for him to succeed. And so better to live by one's wits, you know, by being crafty, KG, you might say, and that set him on a course to become a Detroit Red, right? So he, you know, Malcolm Little gives birth to Detroit Red,

the hustler. And first in Boston, where he ended up moving to to live with his

an older half-sister and then Detroit Red in Harlem, New York as well. Again, I'm condensing a

“lot of information here because there are dynamics with his half-sister who was an important”

influence on his life, who was trying to keep him on a straight narrow as well, but his imagination had moved in a very different direction. And so, so did his activities. Ever wondered what it feels like to be a gladiator, facing a roaring crowd and potential death in the Coliseum. Find out on the ancients podcast from History Hit. Twice a week, join me, Tristan Hughes, as I hear exciting new research about people living

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hit. These have been stories that have been repeated now in movies and so forth, and, but I caution

“that the audience to not gloss over these events because when you read these events in more detail,”

especially through the autobiography, you get such a amount of self-examination, self-awareness, which is really amazing. One of those crimes, which he commits in the mid-40s, landsminton prison, in Massachusetts for robbery, it is there in that timeframe when we're talking about 1946 to 1952, although he's originally sentenced to a much longer period, as I understand it. Part of the reason that's shorter is because there's a great transformation in this man in that time frame,

and this is where he runs into or encounter the nation of Islam. Can you explain that development? That's correct. So, while in prison, he maintains communication with his siblings. I should mention that. So, even though the family is broken apart, and he describes the family as being broken, the family ties were very strong between him and his siblings. So, he hears from a couple of relatives who are mentioning that they've joined this organization, the lost found nation of Islam,

“and that organization holds the key to him getting out of prison. And of course, that gets”

this attention initially. Oh, well, you're going to get me out of prison. What does that look like? And then it turns into an education about the teachings of Elijah Muhammad. This doesn't happen overnight, but he becomes a convert, he begins to correspond himself personally with Elijah Muhammad. And I should add here that his half-sister is really important because when he's initially sentenced and imprisoned, it's in one of the worst prisons in Massachusetts. But his half-sister,

who's part of, if you will, the black aristocracy or the black elite in Boston, has some connections and helps him get transferred to a better facility where, among other

things, there's this amazing library that's been donated there. And so, in a context of his religious

conversion, he is also, at the same time, devoting himself actively in the way that he hadn't since he was an early adolescent to a life of the mind, to reading about history, political theory, whatever he joins the debate team. He becomes a skilled orator. You mentioned this earlier, well, that's where those formative experiences come from. And so, it's through those kind of connections, thanks to his half-sister. And then, of course, his eventual conversion, which in the

context of the politics of the prison actually make him more dangerous rather than less dangerous, because he's initially an incorrigible prisoner. He's called Satan because of how he interacts with other inmates and how he interacts with the prison guards and the staff. But his commitments were life of the mind and then his commitments to Islam as practiced by the nation of Islam have a salutary effect. And to some extent, they want to get rid of him because he becomes a threat in

And so, so he has paroled in in 1952 and begins his career in a nation of Islam. Now,

don, if I made, I'd like to back up you to make this point because I think we do have to take seriously the experiences that he had as a small time hustler in terms of how that helps to see the soil for the kind of political organizer he becomes. One of the things that's most remarkable

“about the autobiography that you have to read it a couple of times to get this, is that Malcolm”

pretty much did every kind of work that a black male of his age in generation would have done. So he shines shoes, he sewed sandwiches on a train, he was a pullman porter, and he engaged and petty crimes, right hustling, right robbery and what have you. And so that gave him in a sense a broad pallet of experience that allowed him to relate to a broad swath of black urban America, many of whom had had similar experiences as well, including the experience of being incarcerated.

He had a set of experiences that grounded him in the lives and experiences of the black working class majority in the United States, and that served him well as an organizer because he could then go into alleys to pull halls, he could speak among folks that more respectable leaders

“could not make the same connections with. Interesting. And remember, by the time I just did a little”

arithmetic here, by the time we're talking about, you know, by the time he's out of prison, he's only 21 years old. I mean, that's very young. He's a very young man we're talking about, this has been a teenager who's been going through all of this. And by the time he realizes this up is when all of us realize ourselves in his early 20s, we mentioned that it begins very small back in the 20s, the nation of Islam, but it has grown in leaps and bounds. By the time he's

interested and reaches out, by the way, this happens in a fascinating way. He writes a letter

from that third prison where he's undergoing a lot of this transformation and study, he writes a letter

to Elijah Muhammad explaining what has happened to him and he gets a letter back with a $5 bill in it, inviting him to come and be a part of this, right? Yeah, that's correct. Well, here's the thing that, you know, he's per rolled in 1952. At the time, the nation of Islam is still a very small organization. We should be clear about that. But Malcolm, he commits to his work in the nation of Islam with the same level of focus and energy that he had committed to his studies. And in fact,

he had committed to his previous life of crime. And he becomes a tireless organizer. He goes around helping to rebuild, to revitalize, in some cases, creating new temples. And in the short period of time, this small largely unknown organization, and he helps to make it by the end of that decade, a major force within Black America, ideologically and politically, so that even individuals who are not interested in joining the nation of Islam because of the strict dietary rules of comportement

and dress, cannot see themselves joining, were nevertheless attracted to Malcolm and his teachings on behalf of the nation of Islam and Elijah Muhammad. This gets the attention of national media. So there's a major television program hosted by Mike Wallace that hate that hate produced is what is called, that helps to introduce the nation of Islam to a broad national audience. And in that context, that Malcolm begins to become a national spokesman and figure. And as eventually

named a national spokesman for the nation of Islam, he is situated at the very important temple number seven in Harlem, right? And that's done intentionally because Elijah Muhammad realizes recognizes the skills that tireless organizing that Malcolm has committed himself to to organizing

“the group. Clarence explained to me the choice of the name Malcolm X. Where does that come from?”

And what is that tradition? That's something within the nation of Islam, is that correct? Thank you for that question. So part of the worldview of the nation of Islam was that they were

basically lost in the wilderness without a name in a sense. And so individuals use X,

rather than their given surnames, right? The argument being that those were not native natural to them, right? And that that represented a break from the past that could not be recovered. And so the X was used as a representative, as a signifier of the unknown,

miller female who joined the nation of Islam at a certain point in your conversion, in your recruitment,

you took on X as your surname. Hence Malcolm does that. Yeah, and Elijah Muhammad we're talking about was formerly Elijah Poole. This is what is happening within this organization of part of self-determination, aspect of this. And cultural revitalization, right? And discovery, yeah, the nation of Islam, by the time you're talking about him becoming, I just want to review. As he becomes this charismatic leader, serving as he would say Elijah Muhammad, opening new temples,

recruiting new members to the nation of Islam, this organization grows considerably. At some point, I guess at its peak, it was some 500,000 members. Is that true? You would get different responses to that. Some would say 2000, some would say 5000. We can safely say thousands. Yeah, thousands and thousands of people. And as you say, media attention begins to his paid and it's major media attention. And there becomes this new story of this force of nature, which is this Malcolm X,

who is at the front of all of this. At the core of his message is the idea that black identity must find independence. Followers are encouraged to defend themselves by any means necessary. I mean, this is where I mentioned at the top, made a lot of people uncomfortable, because in his direct fourth right nature, he was calling out things that are obvious to us today. But at the time, we're not. And they were very uncomfortable for a lot of people. And he

“became a very dangerous figure in many white Americans' eyes. That's correct. And I think that one”

point, of course, to help establish concepts during the 40s, during the 1950s, while Malcolm is incarcerated. And when he's has been released from prison and is slowly growing in the nation of Islam, during that period of time, a major post-war war to civil rights movement is growing and developing. Yes. It becomes identified with Martin Luther King Jr. But of course, he's not the only individual who's leading participating in that, obviously. But it becomes largely associated with

him after the Montgomery Bus Boycott in 1955. So there's a spirit of racial reform that's spreading. Black people are leaving the charge of finishing the work of reconstructions. Right? So this is in some ways, the unfinished business of the late 19th century after the Civil War.

And that movement is largely guided by strategically, if not always philosophically, the notion of

nonviolent mass direct action. And so that's at his high tide. And Malcolm, as he emerges as a national figure, becomes intentionally and otherwise, a bit of a foil to the so-called nonviolent civil rights movement. And so he does two things in this context. He's one speaking very boldly in an very unapologetic way against the contradictions of racism, white racism in the United States. And in doing so, he's also positioning himself as a critic of the mainstream ideas of the civil

“rights movement, right? A movement that's rooted in notions of liberal integrationism, right?”

Which is very different from the standpoint that he's coming from as a black nationalist, where the idea is not to integrate the ideas for black people to build their own sources of institutional strength and collective interest, right, apart from that. So he becomes a foil. That's fueled in a great deal by the media, right? Because he and Marla, the King Jr. are very easy to kind of situate as contrast. But it also grows out of the fact that there are some

fundamental political differences in terms of the political perspective that he's coming from. And what at the time, at least was the mainstream ethos of the civil rights movement. Right, exactly. I mean, it is, in part, the language he uses, he labels white people as evil and black people's superior to white people. I mean, he's really drawing this line that is very bold and very distinguished. But I, I hastened to add, he is undeniably sophisticated, intelligent,

humorous, you know, even at the time when he was supposedly scaring, this guy is a compelling

“individual. And that's what you see when you watch anything you can watch. And I invite people to”

do that. He's amazing human being. And you know that when he walks in the room.

He's very quick with it. And this is in part that, so if you will, the education that he got in prison in debate, right, or this is the sort of the background that's coming, even from his hustling days, where you had to be quicker in your feet in terms of action and speech because

critic of the mainstream civil rights movement, there are some inconveniences that he's

“encountering. So because he's such a tireless organizer and because he's having an impact,”

well beyond the membership of the nation of Islam, Malcolm is interacting with other black activists who are not in the nation of Islam, who do not accept the teachings of the nation of Islam, who look at scans at this worldview of the nation of Islam that sees white people as literal devils, right? Who's time is going to come to an end due to Allah's intervention. That's just whole cosmology. That's off putting to a lot of people. But people enjoy working with

Malcolm because he's sincere. He's committed. He's dedicated to improving the lot of of black people. And those individuals have an impact on Malcolm as well. So he's working with individuals like Adam Clayton Powell, right? The congressman, people who will well outside of the vein of the nation of Islam and even black nationalism, and they're pushing him too. And one of the things that he starts to recognize and appreciate that even though he opposes the dominant ideology of

the civil rights movement, i.e. liberal integrationism, he has to respect the fact that those activists are putting themselves on the line to advance the interests of black people in ways that the nation of Islam is not because the nation of Islam stance is not to engage politically.

And so Malcolm becomes increasingly frustrated with that contradiction, right? That he's critical

of the Martin Luther King juniors, the A. Philip Randolphs, but they are actually on the front lines and the nation of Islam is at a distance criticizing from the sidelines. And in fact,

“there's one individual, I think it was James Farmer, may have been, I could be wrong,”

who calls Malcolm out at one point and says, you know, all this talk is is good and well, but what is the nation of Islam doing in terms of addressing these situations that the other of us are putting our lives literally on the line to pursue? And so that begins to become abrasive and it's efforts to try and move the nation of Islam into more upfront political activism is constantly dashed, right? And at the same time, he's becoming concerned about

signs of corruption among the uppermost leadership because he lives of Malcolm himself lives a very Spartan in his family. Spartan lifestyle, he mirrors Betty X in 1958, they have children, should mention that. So he has a family at a certain point, they live a very plain existence, but there are other folks who are living very lavishly due to the growth of the nation of Islam.

“And then, of course, he hears about the news of Elijah Muhammad, fathering some children”

outside of his marriage. And so those things converge to create a chasm between him and a leadership of the nation of Islam, especially Elijah Muhammad. But I want to make the point that the real driver of difference is the nation of Islam's distance from secular political activity. I see, interesting. Yes, this is a big break for him. You know, the thing with Malcolm X's life is that all happens in such a compressed way. I mean, things, when you look back on it,

it seems like it just was, we're talking about a decade's worth of time here. You know, from complete conversion to huge national leadership to break with that, you know, organization which he has developed so much. Yeah. And now, you know, there are only a few years left to his life.

It's amazing. Can I make this point though, Don, before you ask the next question? I feel like I want

to say that when Malcolm makes the comment about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in November of 1963, that's the incident where he is officially silenced by the nation of Islam and shortly thereafter he splits. But I want to be clear that what Malcolm said about Kennedy's assassination was was nothing out of step with the preaching his other nation of Islam, right? So he he he considered an indication of chickens coming home of the roots that the violence that had been perpetrated

by the United States against his black population and the broad and Vietnam and the Congo and other places had just come back to the United States. But that was a pretext for the leadership in a nation of Islam to put him on a sidelines, given the other differences that had emerged between Malcolm and a nation of Islam leadership. So as a pretext, rather than the thing itself. Ever wondered what it feels like to be a gladiator facing a roaring crowd and potential death

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[Music]

“Is it a direct conflict between Elijah Mohammad and him or are there?”

It's increasingly yes, yes. During this time, he decides to found his own version of this, right? He breaks away completely and creates his own organization called the Muslim mosque. Incorporated is that right? That's correct. Yeah. This is March of 1964 when he leaves the nation of Islam and creates this new organization, which of course would be a major threat. You have their engine of national recruitment. This incredibly compelling man still very

young in his thirties representing a brand new idea in the black nationalist movement.

Of course, this is going to raise hackals, I suppose. The next month, 1964, an April, 1964, he performs a Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca and he converts to Orthodox Sunni Islam. All of these things are very, very heavy ideas to many people to consider. But this is where this man is at at this point. And he also creates a long side of that

“a very important but short-lived organization, the organization of Afro-American Unity.”

And a model for him is the organization of African Unity. And the idea is that this would be a place that would bring together black activists across ideological trends and persuasions.

And so, black nationalist integrationists, right? The idea is that this would be a, if you

will, a black political united front. And of course, it's, it's certainly if that project is aborted by his assassination in February of 1965. But that is also perceived as a challenge to the leadership of Elijah Muhammad as well. And in the context of creating that organization, and this is an important point, Malcolm begins to break from the racialist, if you will, cosmology of the nation of Islam. And he moves to a different understanding about race and about

the prospects for change. And the, in, in fact, the prospects of being able to work in meaningful ways with white activists. Malcolm remains a black nationalist. I want to be clear about that. But his basis of critique becomes less about this cosmology that he had inherited from the nation of Islam, of white people being devils. Right? So that transformation occurs at that particular level, even though he remains a black nationalist. But as he becomes an Orthodox

Muslim, a lot of those ideas that he had, that espoused and had had, he has to dispense with, right? And he has to deal with the issues of white supremacy and racism as political, questions rather than issues grounded in some kind of God given or created nature, that groups of people had. If that makes sense. Of course. And it was these moves that he was making in the '64 into '65 period that really put him in danger. This is what starts a real controversy

that people start sending death threats and all our rest of it. Did he know where those threats were coming from? Well, if we take a mad at his word, he certainly saw that the threats were a consequence of his separation from the nation of Islam. And in fact, in the Muhammad speaks, there was very incendiary overheated language about the needs, you know, how do you deal with heretics? There's only one way, right? And so if you think about it, the fact that, you know,

if you accept the premise that Elijah Muhammad was indeed the messenger of Allah to break from the messenger of Allah is to break with Allah himself. And that is a very high crime. And so now, you know, we can certainly appreciate the fact that that split served interests well beyond the nation of Islam. So there were a number of groups, power in the United States that stood to benefit from Malcolm being liquidated, right, whether through assassination or otherwise. But, you know,

it would be dishonest to deny that it was a split with the nation of Islam that really fueled the threats that began to mount on his life. And of course, there's been a lot of conversation about the individuals who were arrested, the gunmen who were arrested for shooting Malcolm, who were members of the nation of Islam, whether they were the ones who committed the murder,

“you know, who actually killed Malcolm. But I think there's no denying that Malcolm's death”

certainly serve the interests of a set of leaders in the nation of Islam, many of whom were jealous

of Islam if we think about the federal bureau of investigation authorities in New York,

“so on and so forth. So there are a lot of people who stood to gain. And that's where I land”

rather than getting caught up in, who actually killed Malcolm in for what reasons, who's who gained from it, and who helped to create the context for his murder to be possible. And that certainly included the nation of Islam, but it was not just the nation of Islam. We'll just go through those events in detail in a moment, but I just want to really emphasize the change in his thinking that it happened at this point. A much more universalist idea was what was behind the Muslim mosque

organization, right? Yes, yes. Can you define that more explain where he had landed as a man,

because certainly when you see the movies, there's a kind of a very general idea there,

and it seems in Malcolm's case that that would be very specific and very certain. Yeah, and I'll go back to the point that Malcolm died of a black nationalist, and we've talked

“about what the premises of that were, so he did not stray from that. I think what we saw,”

based on the interactions that he had increasingly with a broad set of thinkers and other political leaders, if you will, abroading up his thinking about who were potential allies, who were partners, not just within the black community, but also external to the black community, even though he rooted himself fundamentally in the institutions of black community and wanted to build and expand those. And so Muslim mosque incorporated was an effort to continue his commitment and to commitment

and others to Islam, but through more conventional, inclusive means. And we can't say much more beyond that, because much like the organization of Afro-American Unity, they both had very short lived existences, right? But the trajectory was toward a more capacious approach to political organizing and partnership. That trajectory was clear. Yeah, the tragedy, of course, is a man

and a husband and father dies, but it's also that this amazing intellect and this amazing spirit

had arrived at a place which was unique and no telling where that would have led to, you know, that's right. This man is 39 when he dies in very young. Yeah, incredible, incredible thing now that I'm far beyond that. Me too, February 21st, 1965 at the Ottoman Ballroom, which you can still visit here in New York area where I live, it's in Washington Heights. He is gunned down. And there are three members of the nation of Islam who are arrested for this crime,

but boy are there theories on how that really came to pass and worth investigating. The autobiography of Malcolm X is published in 1965, which is a remarkable timing of that distributes widely. He is, it really makes him out to be quite a pop hero. I remember the book around when I was young, all my sisters reading it in high school. But after this passes, there's an interesting shift there as well. The nation of Islam becomes increasingly fractured

after his death. But that's probably in opposition or at least a parallel with the rise of the successes of Martin Luther King's movement, the civil rights movement, right? Sure. I mean, there are internal dynamics that are occurring, but then there are also other organizations in a late 1960s and into the early 1970s that are modeled on precepts, similar in different precepts of black nationalism that emerge. And so there's a proliferation of organizations that that occur

after Malcolm's death that compete with the nation of Islam. And after a fashion, right? But

“or at least parallel that. And I think that speaks to the fact that yes, he's assassinated. So his”

own particular political project is cut short, but the ideas endure in different form. And so Malcolm becomes an inspiration for a number of organizations that emerge. The black customization, the Black Panther Party for self-defense, the Congress of African peoples, the National Black Political Assembly, the African Liberation Support Committee, there are tons of organizations. And that's not even counting local organizations that emerge that are inspired by that. And so

you know, one of the things that Malcolm does, he's successful at doing. And the same way that Garvey before him had done earlier in the 20th century is that he's able to transmit a black nationalist tradition to younger activists who came of age in the 1960s. So that's a really important thing that he does. And then at the same time, he actually helps to to challenge younger activists to challenge the movement itself to transcend purely domestic concerns. So you mentioned his

travels abroad, right? But he pressed activists to think about the civil rights movement is not just simply a civil rights movement because civil rights is something that a society can give or withhold. But that it was part of a broader human rights movement, particularly among emerging

part of that. And not necessarily a minority in the United States. And so those were really

“important interventions that he made that helped to set the template politically,”

what a lot of Black organizing looks like in the late 1960s and then to the 1970s and later. And then lastly, I do want to, you know, at this point about he is certainly someone who speaks to the broadest numbers of Black people at the grassroots that working class majority because his experiences were very much exemplary of those experiences. Yes. And his message comes outside

to the traditional American Black church, which Martin Luther King is building his movement

from, of course. That's great. That's such an interesting parallel. I'll wrap up with this question in your accomplished career. Malcolm X still lives for you, doesn't he? He does indeed. Yeah. And I'll just say it this way that if we think about the political situation in the United States today, my sense is that we will see a very strong resurgence in Black nationalist ideas.

“We've seen some aspects of that already. But I think in these moments of crisis economically”

politically and otherwise, that becomes a harbor for large numbers of Black people. And that's certainly certainly a long history of that. And so I think that it's a some extent Malcolm's ideas as you said, more than 60 years after his death, still resonate. They certainly resonated with me as a 14-year-old in the late 1980s who discovered the autobiography at the age of 14. And I'm not the last one who's had that experience. And so he speaks across these decades and we

can anticipate that he will continue to do so. Which is why we're talking, right? I mean,

“another word today. There you go. I hope that the audience has taken away from this what a”

larger world he is even attached to. I mean, it's a really there's there's such a strong through line to all of this and such organized ideas behind Black nationalism that he really sits on top of and interprets for a larger world. Thank you so much for this conversation. Professor Clarence Lang is the Susan Welch Dean of the College of the Liberal Arts at Penn State University, Professor of American Studies, historian of Black History and social movements.

Author of a number of publications I mentioned, I'll read a few fruit futiles, grass roots at the Kateway, class politics and Black Freedom struggle in St. Louis, 1936 to 75. And Black America in the shadow of the 60s notes on the civil rights movement, neoliberalism and politics. I understand you're working on a new book about Malcolm X's at correct. I am. There's a lot of administrative work that gets in the way, but work is proceeding on that for sure. I look forward to seeing it.

Thank you so much. Really nice to meet you. My pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for listening to American History Hit. You know, every week we release new episodes,

too, new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays from mysterious missing colonies to powerful

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