Zoning, Red Tape, and the American Dream: A Realtor’s View from the Ground

the most local level, right?

“And I can often say that because it's really our township and our trustees who make”

a lot of these ordinances, but the same token they have to abide by, you know, state legislation. So, you know, for example, like what, you know, what works, you know, in Metro, you know, in American City, like our Flint or our Detroit might not necessarily work in rural America, like here in, you know, rural township or are the plenty townships, which are very, very rural.

And so it has to make sense, right, so it can't be a, you know, a one-fits all kind of sizing. But I would definitely say, you know, obviously I'm in favor of the last government, the better. Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the freedom and opportunity to do so.

This is American Potential. Welcome to the American Potential Podcast. I'm your host, David Fraud. You know, for most people owning a home is part of the American tree. It's something folks look forward to for years.

But when the average age of a first time home buyer is now in their 40s, that's a pretty

good sign. Something is in quite right with the house market. Today we're going to talk about one of the housing challenges a realtor is seeing in her area. And it might not be the issue you'd expect.

I want to welcome Anna Creech, a Michigan Realtor to the podcast, Anna, thanks so much for joining us. Hi, David. Thank you so much for having me here today. Appreciate it.

Great. Yeah. Well, so just to start out with your realtor, but you didn't start out in real estate.

You know, it's also been about like how what would you before and how you got involved

in real estate? Yeah. Thanks, David. Yeah. Absolutely.

So my background is actually I'm banking. So both my husband and I, we were both bankers. My husband was an executive and he retired about 2012. And at the time he was his last bank job was in the tallest area. And you know, he was too young to retire.

“So one of his great mentors who was on the board of the bank said, "Hey, Tim, you should”

get involved in real estate." And Ash, that was 14 years ago. And there was a season where his business just exploded and he needed a part-time assistant. In at the time, I was running committee branches for a local bank. And I honestly didn't really know what his work day looked like.

So I had taken off some time for work and maybe I'll just shut you for a week and see what you do. And the week ended, he had like 91 different applicants for this part-time assistant job. And it was my role to go through it for him so he can focus on his clients and his sellers and buyers.

And I'm like, "Hey, Tim, I think I can do this role, but I'm going to have to give up my baking career to make it happen, and that was back, that was nine years ago. And so we've been hitting the ground ever since. And we say, "If what we know now, what we would have known now, we would have done this years ago."

Oh, that's good. Not all of us have that realization. Well, it's talked to me about the areas of real estate that you work in. I mean, both geographically, like where you're located, but also are there different types of real estate that you're involved in.

Yeah, that's a great question, David, because we do have a niche in our market. So we do have a team, we're with a Timkreech team, that's where it has been Timkreech. And we're with five star real estate leaders. And five star is one of, if I'm not mistaken, the biggest independent brokerage in the state of Michigan.

We have over 900 agents, we're also now in Florida. But our real house in our comfort zone is really in the southeast. So we know Jackson County really well, Lennoway Hillsdale, parts of Washington, which is where the University of Michigan is located, just for reference. And we also go into Calvin Counties.

But if you're familiar with our area, we are very rural.

“Like our town has two stoplights, that's how rural we are.”

But we're also known as Irish Hills. So it's a resort, vacation, lake, lake home, like, destination is where our main headquarters is located. And so we are very skilled at vacant land, lake houses, trust, and a state says well. Great.

Well, it's a nice part of the country. We've often spent a lot of time in Michigan. Michigan is a really beautiful state, I don't think it gets the credit deserves as two

Oh, it's beautiful.

“Really, just, and then internally, it's really beautiful.”

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So I'm originally not from Michigan, I was born in Omaha, Nebraska.

I went to school in Michigan, and I never left.

And yeah, between, between all the coastlines, you know, our beautiful farmlands. And then, on the East Coast, we have, you know, our big city of Detroit. So you really get the best of all worlds here in Michigan. Yeah. Well, you mentioned lake houses.

I mean, I know. Like lake house vacations in Michigan, and there's just some beautiful areas throughout the state.

“So, I think it's, I don't know, it's a big state that a lot of people know, but I don't”

think everybody really realizes how all that it has to offer.

But so you've started seeing, though, some challenges with regard to zoning. And we've talked about on the show, we've talked a few different guests about, you know, the role of government and, and the barriers that government puts up to people realizing their dreams and building their business or sometimes building their dream home. So what, you know, when did you start seeing zoning issues become more of, become, I'm

sorry, zoning laws become more of an issue. And maybe talk about the differences between different townships. You know, that, so, so David, that's a really heavy question.

I'm in a very loaded one, and I could probably talk for days on the topic.

So I know we have limited time, but I would say, you know, our team really started to see a difference when we were involved in a couple of different projects. It was two different lakes, two different counties, two different years, and both of the investors, two different investors, both wanted to invest in our area for retirement living homes, but not like a senior center, but more of, you know, aging gracefully in place with

a smaller housing units built around, you know, planned neighborhood with a restaurant, just really forward thinking ideas, and both the townships and two different counties shut it down completely, and they, they had different avenues of how that went about. But that to us was like, okay, a couple of different red flakes had gone on, and plus with the spike in the housing crisis during COVID, which I often say, that pandemic really pushed

forward a lot of home fails that should have happened in the future. All happened right, like in May of 2020, and it did not really slow down, slow down until 2022. But after that season, we started seeing more and more families try to purchase property as one, but to have what we call in our fields, 80, and 80 you, which is all different of dwelling unit, just to see how that could help them with their living situation, and

that again has gone up into different roadblocks here in different townships. So I would say those, those two moments. So the one with our investors who were both shot down, and then in the last, gosh, in the last three years, seeing more and more, multi-generations trying to buy property as one, as one family, has been a challenge. So what are the local governments objecting to specifically?

Well, unfortunately, they're all very different. So Michigan, I don't have the exact quote on this, and please fact check to me. But Michigan, as a stay as a whole, is probably one of the most complicated states when it comes to municipalities and townships. We have so many what we call little kingdoms, like for example, where we are in Brooklyn, Michigan, and about a 10-mile radius, we probably have eight different municipalities that touch our

“townships. That's how many that we have, hundreds. I mean, it's almost like a burden”

to remember all the ordinances, all the zoning, and they're also different, right? So, like, for example, we have one township locally that you can't split a property or parcel if it's less than 10 acres. But we have one, we have one township that you can't split

that you know, may have made sense, let's just say, 40, 50 years ago, but really don't

do not make sense here in the 21st century, which is why I know I'm excited about the 21st century road to housing act that was just past last Thursday, in the 21st century home act that got a 39 to 9 vote. So it's as bipartisan as it gets. But, you know, that's just a little example of some of the other setbacks that we have, where, you know, not everyone now wants 10 acre parcels or 40 acre parcels. They want to have the right to split them

off and sell them so that way their neighbors and friends can start building houses that they can afford to live on. Well, so you mentioned some of the legislation that's been moving there at the state level in Michigan. You may be tells what you know about that and like what you think the future

“is with regard to that legislation and why do you think it's necessary?”

Yeah, number one, so the 21st century road to housing act, that was just past Thursday with an 89 to 10 vote. So it's also, you know, yeah, which is great, you know, fantastic. I personally don't think we're going to steal a lot of momentum up front just because, you know, it's, it's not just the zoning and the ordinances that have to be, you know, looked at an examined. But it's also our, our health department regulations and our lending

practices that all kind of fall into the similar, you know, spokes wheel, I would say, of what's causing this bottleneck of new homes or availability of homes. So yeah, so I'm excited that it's, it's a groundwork, but I think we still have a lot of work ahead of us in the next five to 10 years just to see some real results in action.

“Yeah, so what, um, so we're, I guess, would you have to see, reform or at the state level”

or at the local level, or is there a combination there that would get us to a better place so that you think there'd be, uh, it would open up the housing market more. Yeah, I would definitely say both, you know, so when that when it comes to true property

ownership rights, you know, it's always at the most local level, right? Um, and I can

confidently say that because it's really our, our township and our, um, our trustees who make a lot of these ordinances, but the same token they have to abide by, you know, state legislation. So, you know, for example, like what, you know, what works, you know, a metro, you know, in a metro city like our Flint or our, um, our Detroit might not necessarily work in rural America, like here in, you know, rural township or our deploying townships,

which are very, very rural. And so it has to make, you know, it has to make sense, right? So it can't be a, you know, um, a one-fits all kind of sizing. But I would definitely say, you know, obviously I'm in favor of the last government, the better, um, but we do have to bring some common sense practices back to the state, um, which then falls down to our townships. Um, but I do know that with the 21st century home act that was passed, um, in Congress at the far level, that

looks like, you know, trying to read through the bill. That looks like it's going to put pressure from the Fed onto the state and then the state will put pressure on the townships to see, you know, how, all they're going to make some changes. So that way, fertile grants and money can filter down, which will be, you know, a one-way for everyone. And how did you get involved in, uh, kind of advancing state legislation and advocating for it? I mean, there's a lot of realtors in Michigan,

and, uh, I'm sure the vast majority aren't involved in advocating for reform. So how did you get involved? Yeah, a great question. So um, by default, one of my best friends her name is Billy. She

works alongside, uh, Tim Golding at the state level with AFB. Yeah. And, you know, I've always been

fascinated with government and policy. And my husband and I, we really aren't by standards. Um, we love to stay informed. Um, and honestly, we have more of an, um, an economic mindset when we help our sellers and buyers. So it's just natural for us to always stay on on top of what's going on with a federal state, you know, and we often say everything goes back to economics. And so

“with that, you have to be involved in understanding, you know, how, you know, how our policies work.”

Um, plus my husband is involved with our local school district. He is president of our, uh,

organic for us to just be involved. Um, I spent a couple of years on a sub board for our village town. I'm sorry, sorry for our village of Brooklyn, um, which was a quarter on proven authority at the help, you know, boost, um, our business in our, um, just in our story about the village of Brooklyn. But it's, it's just a natural way for us that we're involved. Yeah, I guess that not, you know, where, where we have a campaign that that emergency prosperity is doing across the country called the

one small step campaign. And as I talked to folks across the country, I'm, I'm trying to understand, like, what caused you to take that step to get involved? Because that's so consequential for the future of our country, you know, maybe impacting your community, your state, nationally, and, you know, when we look back throughout American history, everybody took one small step, even George Washington, you know, or John Adams or whatever. So, uh, it's just fascinating, because everybody has the

story of what got them involved. Yeah. And, you know, and I don't take the right, you know, to evolve very lightly. So, when I was younger, my father worked in national sales, so we lived, several years overseas. And, you know, accessibility to vote in a democratic election, it's just mind blowing that, you know, a lot of the world does not get that privilege. And so, I, I got to volunteer for our 2020 residential elections with the voting polls, and that was,

that was such a great experience, you know, and, you know, you really can't force volunteerism,

“but I really wish every American could experience that, because I think it would help them”

understand, like the sense of urgency, why your vote, you know, still, and it does matter. But, yeah, and plus, you know, with our business, we get to mingle and talk with people, like,

all day long. And we come across such amazing, like, stories of, like, triumph, you know,

the American dream, or, you know, not all sales are happy and positive, you know? So, sometimes, because of a death, or a divorce, or a job loss, and we get to really understand our client's way of life, and being, being involved across the board of so many different aspects, how do you not want to get involved to make their lives better? Yeah, I love the formula that you're kind of using here, where you are interested in being involved, you have a kind of a citizen's mindset,

where you know, I'm going to make my community, my country better, but like, you're pursuing something right now, where you have real knowledge, you know, we don't have to be an expert in something to get involved, I absolutely not, you know, we need people involved all over the place, but you have a particular knowledge in real estate, and how governments interaction with, and the zoning laws are really impacting people's housing options. Oh, yeah. So, I applaud you

for kind of finding that space to go into. What, well, I mean, do you want to get more involved

“in the public policy process and politics, or are you kind of happy with which we're right now?”

I, you know, I don't know. I always say God has a calling, you know, so I have a career in a

calling. I don't know if that's a calling for me. Yeah. Um, you know, but hey, if the Lord puts me right in that path, I have to listen, but no, I, you know, between our schedules and what we have our commitments, we are pretty, we are pretty full, but hey, I'd be open to seeing how, you know, how it could be a one-one for us and for, you know, varsity. Yeah. If you could weigh the wand, the magic policy wand. Oh, thank you. Uh, in Michigan, at the state local level,

what would the housing kind of regulatory regimen look like? And how do you think it would affect housing options in the state? Yeah, so, oh, man, if I could have a magic wand, that would be

amazing. I, I would, I would re-look at a few different things. So, um, the cost of our, um,

“of our permits, um, I'll get an example. So, when a house cannot get on public water, right?”

And so, we have to happen to maybe like a sewer line, but they're still on a wall. I just talked to a, one of our, um, our builders a couple of weeks ago and his latest new build and in a township. It was on a well, but they have to tap into a public sewer. That tap cost, just to get into it was a 12, uh, a little over $12,000 from the local municipality. And they're the ones that, oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. So, 12,000, right?

which get passed on to the buyers, um, you know, so that's just one. Or here, Michigan, uh, we have, in our areas, we have, um, the pockets of high rate on, which is an

odorless, it's, it's a catalyst gas. It's a second leading cause of lung cancer in the United States.

“But there is a mandate that for every new build or reconstruction, uh, you have to install”

a passive rate on system, which, you know, does not too bad compared to like the sewer cap in cost. Does that could run a homeowner between 500 to, you know, 1800, um, and it depends on the build of the house. But a passive rate on system is just that it's very passive. There's, there's no motor, or there's, there's no tool that's equipped to actually suck the railing out. Um, the system is just relying on a natural wind, um, coming across the open pipe to suck the

rate on out of the house, which, you know, to me, that's, that's just a waste of money and time and inspection fees, really. Um, but the biggest one I see that's that to me is a little more scary because it involves, um, our energy company and some of our, um, health department regulations is we now have certain areas in, in Michigan that if you have a new build, so a new construction or a model, you cannot put in a natural gas appliance and that includes a furnace. So these, yes, absolutely.

So these appliances, including our furnaces, are electric based and I'll tell you, um, it seems like our weather gets worse and worse and again, where, you know, in January, we had nine straight days of like 20 or below temps. I, I think we had a week worth of like it was in the negatives. And I can't imagine having to run that on the electrical grid, which also means that we're seeing more and more solar panels coming into Michigan. So more and more of our farmland is being

“taken up. So that's how like those are just all kind of inner, you know, inner lock was what”

another, that like those zoning, you know, really affects a lot of different areas in our state. Yeah. Well, that's, that's a, that's a scary prospect of being to end on electricity because we've done a number of episodes talking to folks who, you know, the electrical grid is already taxed. So it should data setters come online and just the cloud in general. It's, uh, there's not a, and a abundance of electrical energy out there. So that'd be scary for your homes

heating to them feed dependent upon that, especially, uh, when it, the crunch time in the winter. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Um, you know, so those are examples where, you know, when it comes to our, um, our new builds, there's just so many different regulations as, you know, even like in the size of homes, which is not doesn't affect just a zoning, but it affects like our

lending policies to, um, on the third level. So like, for example, um, I own a lake house that

remember local lakes. And I love it. It's a two-bradroom. It's a cottage. But that home could not be built in 2026 because it goes against our current code zoning ordinance and lending practices because of the square footage. Um, the, the main house itself was only 725 square feet. And so by the current code, um, and lending a two-bradroom house has to be a minimum of 850 square feet. Now, I understand both sides, but as the American family or the American individuals changing,

the idea of these, you know, big mansions of the 90s where you have 4,000 square feet, you know, of living space that that is really not what, um, an average buyer who is now 40, you know, who is a millennial, very rarely do we see someone who is millennial or younger wanting a 4,000 plus five bedroom, five basketballs. You know, it's just, it's not part of their culture

“or how they want to live. Well, I think certainly, you know, the market needs to, and our,”

the, the regulatory regimen that governs the market does need to reflect, you know, what consumers want and what, you know, so that we can keep having a vital housing market. I mean, too many people are kind of left behind right now and not being able to, you know, afford

their first home. And I really, I think for a lot of us has always been a kind of a essential

be successful and then, you know, I know that we're working as a company in Americans for prosperity

to try to replicate a lot of these housing reforms throughout the nation, because it's, it's

“important people, especially young people, really care about it. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.”

And it's because we see where, you know, someone who is like, who is a, you know, born in their 50s,

it's not that they, they don't want to sell their home. It's just, those people also don't have

“a place where they can go to, you know, safely agent. So it's not just, you know, our 40-year-old buyers,”

it's, or it's, it's everyone, and it's also our 75-year-old sellers. So it's, it's full circle.

Well, and I appreciate the hard work that you're doing out there, and I really appreciate you joining us to talk about this issue. Absolutely. Thank you, David, and thank you for the work that AFP is doing, not just to mention again, but all across our country. Love doing it. Hey, folks, if you like this episode, we'll like to stay connected with the podcast. Be sure to like, subscribe to our channel as well as following us on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube.

“Always remember, liberty and freedom are easily taken for granted. Don't take it for granted.”

Quather and defend liberty and freedom. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you on the next episode.