Alan Ritchson

Hi. This is an incredible opportunity for us for many reasons. A he's a mega mega star.

But also you and I have had debates about this man and then he got to come in and actually

“we got to hear from him. People might remember Alan Richen was talked about heavily when I was”

referencing this motorcycle video that happened in his neighborhood with a with a blizzard neighbor. Yeah. And so yes, this is the gentleman that was involved in that. But of course, talk about it. Most people know him as a preacher. This giganticly successful international blockbuster preacher. War machine, Blue Mountain State, Fast and Furious Fast X. And he has a new movie out now that is so cool and so bold. Motor city. So check that out and then coming up in September.

Look for runner with he and Owen Wilson. Please enjoy Alan Richen. Tell me what's happening. Where do you live? I live in Nashville now. Meet what we need to have a house there. Where was there last weekend? Mount Julia. Oh cool on the lake. Oh, you are one of the lucky ones, man. I want to like how so bad. How long have you been there though? Because I read that you were nomadic for a minute, which fascinates me. I did not want

to settle down. I was traveling like a circus with my wife and kids. My boys are 13, 12 and 10. I was having the best time. I'm working. I come home. I hang out with the boys. It was having for me. And not for them. They're like, we really went friends. We want to go to sleepovers. Yeah, exactly. So we're in New Zealand. We're shooting War Machine and had the most idyllic dinner we've ever had. It was magic hour. It was like, you know, the cobblestone streets and the mountains

and the water. It was beautiful. It was a great. And we were walking back and it's like cautiously idyllic. It's people on slacklines and like picnic games and stuff. And my oldest boy,

“like, burst in a tears. I said, what did I do? Yeah. Oh my wife goes, why did you do?”

Yeah. And he goes, I just saw those kids over there playing and they have friends. And like, you know, I think it just hit us. They're like, oh, we're really at an age where we got to settle down. I want to go back to something that really struck a chord, which is your kid cried and your first thought was, what did I do? I know. I caught that too. That's very dax. That's so me. Yeah. And then I've noticed it's so my brother. It's like a family thing. Where does it come

from for you? I'm trying to figure that out. I think my mom probably picked it up from her dad. I don't know, but I've talked to my brother about it. I'm like, what's going on with us? And he goes,

don't you just feel like you're always in trouble? And I'm like, yeah, I feel like I'm always in trouble.

And like if anything happens or anyone's moods a little crooked, my first thought is like, oh, fuck, I did something. You're like hyper vigilant? Yeah. Super hot. Do you have ADHD? Yeah. I newly believe I have that. Okay. But what is this thing? What's like, I'm in trouble. I must have done something hyper vigilance. Yeah. You learn to read the room real quick. The survival mechanism is like, am I responsible for this? And what can I do to fix it? I suffer deeply from rejection

sensitivity dysphoria, which is part ADHD. Yes. I've never talked about this before. I've talked about bipolar before. Yeah. I think I have it all. I think I have one. Yeah. Yeah. It is. I guess what it's a portrait. It's more. But I just hired an ADHD coach. Oh, really? It's a kind of help me because I feel like pre-forty the ADHD brain is a superpower. But the fuel comes at a huge cost later in life. Your gas tank runs off cortisol and stress and like the the fear of the pain of

rejection and criticism and I hate it so much because it's such a visceral violent, sickening reaction bodily reaction that like, I'll do anything to avoid it. Uh, you know. So like, I'll be perfect for you. Yeah. This will be the best experience or relationship you've ever had. Yeah. So you're not ever going to be mad at me. You know, that doesn't work. It's

“exhausting for the people in my camp. My kids have said it's not real had to ask that's why I've been”

confronting it and that's why I heard it and use my kids finally said like, hate when you say that.

They recognize that. Yeah. I'll always go, oh, did I do something or did I upset you? It's really

perceptive. Yeah. And they said in a very self-way. I don't like that because what it does is like I'm dealing with something and then all of a sudden it's about you. And I got to reassure you that you're not in trouble and it's like, I'm the one who's upset. I'm like, fucking duh. Yeah. So selfish of me. I think I'm being very selfless in trying to apologize or whatever, amend whatever thing I did wrong. But in fact, it's like, yeah, it's like stealing their

thing in a way. Seeing them less because you're recognizing your own. Yeah, because like they're not in a position where I'm like, did I do something? They have to now go like, oh, no,

because they're upset. But instead, I've said did I do something wrong or did I upset you? And now they got to comfort me. Right. They learned to hide their emotions from you. Like, oh, I guess I can't be like upset around dad because he's going to feel awkward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but then sort of apologize again. So being aware of that and recognizing that they're aware of that, which is impressive. What is that awakening do to you? You're putting more energy into managing the awareness

“of it or confronting it before it happens. My whole life is a series of things I've quit, right?”

It's like, I don't know when I accumulated all the badness. But at some point I had to start just removing alcohol at 29 or removing this. And then now we're down to this is like, yeah, I got to stop that. I cannot ask you repeatedly all the time. Did I do something wrong or you upset with me? I have to trust that they will tell me if that's the case. And then this weird

AA thing starts happening, right? Which is like they always tell you, you can act your way into thinking

different. You cannot think your way into acting different. So it's like, by simply stopping the repeated M.I.N. trouble, did I do something? By stopping the action, the thoughts dissipate. You know, it's like reverse hacking that disloop, I'm in. Yeah. You find any purchase in that kind of rationale. Yeah. It's like almost a little bit of that like fake it to you learn not anybody and fake it to you. Yeah. Yeah. Get through this chapter. It's a little bit of that theory.

But yeah, I get that totally. There's obviously a genetic component to ADHD. But I'm sure embroiled in this and childhood stuff. I was just I'm all the diagnosis. I feel like you know, like when you see people on like late night and they're like the most gorgeous, wonderful. Well, like everything's perfect. I'm such an ugly document. Everyone hated me. Like yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why I want to see it. But sometimes I feel like people

they have these like sympathy diagnoses where you're like, yeah, I'm just so messed up. You know, you look pretty put together to me. Yeah. Some people maybe really mask it well or like deal with it well or whatever, but I keep finding out that like I have these pretty sinister things under the hood that are like really corrupting relationships in my world. Yeah. On a day to day

basis and the evidence of it is everywhere. Things are not always great in the very few relationships

that I have. Yeah. By any means. Yeah. There's damage. Yeah. And so I'm like, why are like the three

“relationships that are important to me not working at all? And so you know, you start to look”

under the hood. I was diagnosed recently with CPTSD. CPTSD chronic post-traumatic stress syndrome, which is interesting because PTSD, what I've learned in like, I don't know, I'm not an expert. You might be. Let's see. PTSD from what I've learned from the psychiatrists, psychologists who are experts in the field is it's actually much easier to heal from those sort of one-off traumatic events. Oh, when you have chronic PTSD, trauma with a little tease how it's described repeatedly over and

over and over again as a kid like if there's like a narcissistic adult in the home, right? Or an abuse of adult food scarcity and imprisoned parent, addiction, sexual abuse, right? So and repeated and if

it's made worse by having no secure attachments, they're almost likely to like never fully recover,

right? Right. Right. Right. And so there are now methods that I've now experienced like EMDR, electro magnet. So you have this vibrating pulse in your hand that keeps both hemispheres online. So you don't get locked into this when you start talking about trauma. Yeah. Yeah. Talk therapy. You don't get locked into this shut-down mode, right? You keep both hemispheres on and somehow in doing that, it allows you to sort of process this stuff differently

where you can move through it. So what are really quick? You use little hand us because my wife did eye stuff. Yes. That's a part of it, too. Yeah. But you have the stimulation that is a part of the process, right? And you work through these traumatic events. You rebuild them. You create a new narrative around it. You re-experience something a new neural network. Yes. Anyway, so finding out that like I've see PTSD and you to work through this stuff going through the trauma, my therapist was like,

hold on. Well, you just said it's not little tease stuff. Why are you saying it's big tease stuff?

“No, no, no. But I deserve that. You think that's why people say it. Yeah. Yeah. You make it on your”

fall. You know, when you're the victim of abuse is a child working through all that has just been pretty eye-opening. I'm already relating you so much. Just even the way you speak, right? Yes. Because I see people on talk shows. Oh, I was a wallflower in there 10 and you're like, right? Yeah. And so every time I'm doing this, right? Like, I've talked about being molested on here, right? Like, that's rough. There's a voice in my head that's from fucking Detroit and this kid's going like,

oh, you fucking need so much attention. Oh, boo. Yeah. Oh, poor. Like, that fucking shadow voice that is so worried I'm being judged like we're talking about the person on the talk show versus get you go through some shit. It's fucking up some of your relationships. You have some wreckage from this. Here's what's like, nor that. I mean, you could or you could drink yourself to death at 60. So like the notion that there's anything indulgent about it as opposed to like, no, I'm

having to fucking constantly talk to that chorus of fucking kids, I grew up with basically, right?

“Do you have that? It's like any action I do. I hear the fucking assholes from my neighborhood.”

I just feel like I'm not driving the car. Those voices are more of the voices. They got to hold the wheel. And I can intellectualize in this moment. I'm like, fuck, this is rejections and activities interim. This is probably related to the fact that I was so terrified of upsetting the way the machine was working in the home as a child, tiptoeing on that broken glass. This is all reaction. I can see it happening in the moment like an out of body experience. And then

still have zero control over it. I can't stop it. And then it does damage to the relationships. Now I'm lashing out because I feel so hurt and rejected and criticized when the scale of that rejection of criticism. It was just a comment to them. But it felt like a life-changing gut-punch change in your mind. So then the relationship is out of balance. It's volatile. There's too much volatility in my house. I feel bad for my kids. Yeah. I feel bad for my wife. It's not

great all the time. And it's like, oh, it's clearly it's a part of all this thing. But what's funny is that your eye could think even talking about that might invite criticism when what you're saying right now is like deeply admirable in all ways. It's like you're taking accountability for your shit. You're attempting with all your might to make things better. You're failing for sure. But the huge difference is like you act like an asshole. You're not aware of any of this.

You then shut down. I don't know what your pattern is. Then you and your wife finally amend

some way. You never address it. And she's left to think like, well, this is as good as it's

ever going to get because he has nowhere in his oven. He's not making any effort. Versus even if you are unable to hit the brakes in those moments, the simple fact that you know what's happening, you're committed to trying to reduce that gap. Everyone in your life, oh, you would think, I've been with my wife for 20 years, right? You've been married for married for 20 years. Yeah, not each other's forever. And a lifetime of like that kind of

volatility, though, where then there's just this push poll, like it does damage, so at some point, people get fed up with just the coming back and realizing like, I was wrong. And I know you didn't really mean it. It can be an eye. I overacted. It's exhausting. And there's a cost to it, right? And so J. P. Saxe, you sing a songwriter. I love, he's amazing. He was at my house. And I said something to him

that he ended up turning into a song about beautiful song. I love, I hope he releases it someday. But

I just said in conversation, I said, I wouldn't wish myself on my own worst enemy. I feel like it's just damage waiting to happen in a relationship, which is why I tend to pull back and be like a real lone wolf. I don't have a lot of friends and relationships. And that's the way that I protect people, not by like elevating myself through those, it's more like I'm going to give up before I mess anything. Mess anything up right to protect you for myself. I think that life to me is like really about

meaningful relationships and community and being an effective agent of love and change in community. Whatever that is, family neighborhoods work, how can we be like a light that just brings the best out of the world that we are blessed with to occupy. And then, you know, feeling like it's actually better if I just don't have any of that. It's like a weird place to be. Yeah. That's not true. You would not be married for 20 years. If you didn't have...

Unless you have Stockholm syndrome. No, we've met her. I was in the smart situation. She doesn't believe in that and if she doesn't believe in it, then I don't believe in her. Well, she gets to decide that. But you would not be in this type of relationship if you didn't have qualities, great qualities. I feel like you've focused a lot on the harm you're causing, but you're also bringing joy.

“And you have to also be able to tap into that and realize that's the real part of you.”

That's really you. Because I bet you're a fucking party as well. Are you a party? I don't think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know my kids like me. Yeah, like you know, that's a lot. People, they have autonomy and they can evaluate like, yeah, there's some bombs before the highs are good and I'm in. Yeah, it's maximizing the good things and minimizing the bad things. We all have a mix. We have a friend like this currently who's just very like, I'm bad.

Unbelievable. Yeah. And it's as someone who loves this person. It's like, that's crazy. You are offering so much. And if you don't see it, it's sad. Yeah. I think it's all part of the ADHD brain though, is like, let me get ahead of like the rejection issue, which is going to cause all kinds of volatility. You know, like, let me just protect everybody from that. Is your father's all of? Both my parents are still. Both my inclination is to ask if the master sergeant.

Yeah, chief master sergeant, ran a really tight ship that is some of the source of this childhood anxiety. And then my inclination is that you probably are the type of dude that your dad stole a lot. My dad's dad's. I'm free to talk to our. It's hard to talk about the

“folks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But how about let's go about school? Because I think anyone that knows”

you would be shocked even I was to learn like, I don't know if you're tiny, but you were very late bloom. Very. You moved around a lot right. You're born in North Dakota. You go to Illinois and

It was a fifth grade. Going into fifth grade. Going into fifth grade. So one year left of elementary.

Yeah. Okay. And then Mama's a educator. She became whatever put her closest to us. So she'd like work the computer lab at a school. She'd like be a substitute teacher. Whatever got her closest

“such as you can see what we're doing all the time. And you have an older brother and younger brother?”

Yeah. That's right. Okay. What is the age gap? 18 months with my older brother and six years with my younger brother? Okay. And what was your older brother like, and did you think he was radical? I looked up to him because he was an overachiever. He was super, super smart international baccalaureate in high school and really good grades. And then he went on to become a chemical engineer and master's. And he also paid for his

school. He was one of the fastest runners in the country. Oh, really? So he was athletic. And so he would do something like, well, I guess I have to run a four minute mile now. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. So

he sort of continued to raise a bar for me. And I always really looked up to him for that.

Was he protective of you? Not really. I would protect him. I remember the first time I ever got punched. I was in fourth grade. He was in sixth grade. And we were playing 500 or whatever. You just chucked the ball up in the air in a mob of kids go land on it, right? And he got a little physical. Yeah. And some kid who I never seen before was in his grade. And a fourth grade or two or six. Where is like, gee, he shows my brother around. My brother's like, come on, man, let's go.

And he just leaves. And I was like, we don't just leave when somebody's shut. So I run over the kid. I was like, wham, I shoved him as hard as I could to the ground. I was like, don't ever touch

“my brother. And I think the mistake where I turn around and walk away like a door. Do you want”

like the movies out? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I walk away. And I just feel his tap of my shoulder like

isn't. Yeah. And he forgot to be so bad. I think in real life, I was probably 24, 25 feet off

the ground. Yeah. Yeah. I see him back. I had the biggest goose egg on my jaw. Really. I was working with Guy Richie on ministry of in gentlemanly warfare. And one of my favorite things about working with him is he's an intellectual. Like, if you spend time like, you know, but I'm obsessed with him and his whole work style and the barbecue thing. It's the coolest. I was like, man, I don't have that format of living, right? Yeah. His work life balance, the overlap, the vendors, the energy.

Yeah. It's a circle. I think it's just like this perfect. He's figured out a way to like live and work at the same time in the funnest school. His way. He loves to just wrestle big existential philosophical questions. And we'll send his trailer just for hours. You know, like, I remember the last day I was working as a night shoot. It was my last day. I was wrapped out. Oh, God, would like to see you in his trailer because I was like, gosh, that comes to go right here in my

boy. And I'm like, no, I got it. It's night time dude. It's like three in the morning. I went go to bed. He's like, no, no, he just wanted to talk. He said at one point he goes, I think everybody should wake up in a pool of their own teeth and blood. At some point, exactly. All of us. He really emptied up because I think it would make the world a better place if everybody, right? At the time, I was like, no, no, that's like such an old testament God kind of thing. And like, there's a whole

man doing everything. I love everybody. And he was like so vehemently disagreed. And since that point in time, so many things have happened in my life where I'm like, it would be so much better

“if everybody, look at that. So sometimes that's the best way to, you know, I will get to that”

too. Yeah, yeah, I'll be driving around LA a lot. I'll be at a light and I see the fucking five foot, eight, eight, eight, and nine eleven screaming at a woman in a car. And I go like, yeah, you're just not from where I'm at. Like, yeah, you just want it. And we should have been work. Yeah, you don't fucking act like that. Like there are consequences for acting like a bully in your world. Yeah, there are not a lot of consequences these days. So the ride through school, not a big dude. How was it?

I was saying you're another shocker. You loved musical theater. Yeah, that made it interesting because I was in the deep south. Yeah. Yeah. And I was a little bit nerdy. I mean, we're going back to this, like, no, it's such a religion here. Yeah. I one time had a pimple on my cheek. That was so big. Exactly. But like, I was just like, oh, the most efficient way to get to school is roller blades 'cause then I could roll it right into chorus practice on your accordion. Right? So yeah, so I'm like,

in chorus in music theater, right? Do it drama, writing it on roller blades. Yeah. Like, I'm like, no, it only implores a perfect piece. The dude's just hated it. It was interesting. And so I was sort of combat that with like acting even goofier, Jim Carrier's my idol. I was Jim Carrier every year for Halloween. I would dress up as him every Halloween. Go to school. I could be in the Halloween line. Good doofy line Marshall Bell and shit. Yeah. I'm just going to be very,

I actually look like kids eating lunch and they're like, oh boy, for me, rich dude. It was fun for me. It was a little tricky with some of the dudes that didn't understand. I got like me in that place. And I was half in and half like, I liked dance. What kind of dance ballet? I know you met your wife in a ballet ballet ballet. I have a associate of arts degree in ballet just because I had enough credits when I could college to get. Why? And you know, they're like, you can have a ballet

degree. I was like, okay, that's so cool. But I was so at that point in time, I wish I knew what I

I was afraid to open up in class because I didn't want to be viewed a certain way. And you know, silly. So I kind of just enjoyed the arts. And I felt like I wasn't allowed to enjoy the arts. Did dad like these pursuits or would they seem a little

masculine? He supported my brothers and I in everything we ever did to a degree. He'll always be my

hero for this. He was Chief Mass Sergeant Richardson, 1% of the Air Force achieves that rank. Of all the branches, it's the hardest to achieve. Okay. He's a so limited. He's a great leader. He was well respected by the people that worked for him. I like really looked up for him the way that he worked. He really like run the King Hanger on eggplant Air Force Base, largest Air Force Base in the world. And when we got really busy and just trying to discover who

we were in trying lots of extracurricular activities, we couldn't afford it. We're broke. You don't make a lot in the Air Force with the family five that's busy. And so he took a job as a night security guard at the tiny little local airport. No way. And he did it for enough time to get a suit like a busy season. But he would work all day and then come on and nap and then go do

“this thing at night. And I remember hearing about my mom was like, you don't have to do this because”

I'd overhear them in the room. And the people that were ranked way under him would seem in the airport. Look, what the hell are you doing here, David? You know, and they tease him for it. He would talk about how humiliating it was. And by the way, it's like deeply admirable, deeply admirable. Yeah. I don't have these conversations. I cry because then I feel bad because I'm like, he's doing this for me to be able to go to like a chorus event across the state in a competition.

And anyway, I hugely admire him for what he's doing. But so he's already in a big way. Yeah, great great great great. I had a full ride. I could have gone to any college. I want to like vocal scholarships offered everywhere. You're also going to high school and this community college exact same time. So I started college early a little bit. But I just wanted to get it done with. But I eventually had academic scholarships paid for school. I had vocal scholarships and that kind of

thing. And I quit school. I'm like, this is not for me. I have to experience life in a different way. And I've been invited to like start modeling, which is really a fruitless business. It's a modeling telling about the tumor and how big was it and where you super insecure. I was happening with that. Well, I was an interesting one. I got a little speed bump in adolescent. My face was growing like sideways like the elephant man. Okay.

And it first like it first. My mom's like maybe the other side will just take him in.

It to catch up. Yeah. Yeah. And people start calling you names. And you know, like, how old were you? High school? Yeah. I was like 15. So my chin starts growing like, way out. And we didn't get any help. I went to go get my wisdom teeth taken out. We got an x-ray for the wisdom teeth. And like orthodontists, whoever we were seeing,

“he comes in and goes, I think you need to sit down. We're like, what? Have a tumor in your”

chin. We saw in the, you know, and so they showed us a huge thing. They operated the took the wisdom teeth out. They cut my gums from here to here, filled it all the way down. Whoa. And they had to take the tumor out and like fill it in with OCO class or whatever and tack it down. And shave like the stuff that had grown like sideways on the mandible. Yeah. So like this whole, like, all this was shaved down. Whoa. And he still has such an impressive chin. I've only had

an engine on 10 new. I'm shocked. What's funny is the doctor at the time. I had no idea that it would be like in the entertainment industry. Like nobody in my family was, I don't even know it was a career. But the doctor was like, so we can do this one in two ways. Very simple. You can just cut, you open here. You'll have a scar of the rest of your life. I have a feeling looking at you, probably better if you don't have a big scar like that for whatever you're going to do. And

like, yeah. So it's going to be a lot worse for you. But we'll do this way. So they went inside. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. And was it immediately noticeable? And did your confidence go up? Oh, huge. Yeah. I would have been very insecure in high school. Yeah. Yeah. I sort of were walking down that, like, if this was a movie, like a teenage movie or whatever, cameras just floating down the hallway. And you see girls jumping out of the way.

And like, grabbing onto their friend, get away from the concert. You're at the hunchback of another day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just like, oh, when you love Jim Carrey, musical theater. Yeah. All right. At least I can. I want to want to be your friend. Look out for you. No, I don't have

rejection sensitivity. But that also really taught me. I'll never, ever look down on somebody or

criticize somebody or make somebody feel less than for something that they have no control over. Yeah. So yeah. You start modeling. And what was that? That was the first time my dad would not speak to me. Oh, okay. Yeah. Because it's so vain. So he made decisions in his own life that he

“I think kind of regrets like he was in the drugs and parting and it was unfocused. He was like,”

orphaned. He's one of those guys where you hear his story and you're like, what chance did you have at any normal see your success in your life? You've got a family. He found a way to keep his marriage together. There's a lot of things that I'm like, man, he triumpt over his story. So I respect that. But he should have been in the major leagues as a baseball player. Okay. We would have been playing for the Cincinnati Reds had he not been in the drugs and shown up. But he went in the

military because he had to. And so he saw more for us and we're bright and driven and gritty and accomplished. He didn't work too jobs to make sure you guys had everything. Yeah. Exactly. And college is paid for. And I'm like, it's not for me. You recoil from that a little bit. And then my follow up is I'm going to be a model. Oh, are you an idiot? Yeah. This makes no sense. And it

seen me somewhere in the kept calling. You got to be a model down in Miami. And I was like,

what? And so it kind of stayed in so for a couple of months. I was like, maybe maybe. And eventually I was like, you know what? I'm going to do that. Just because that's more interesting than this. And like, I don't know where that could get me. But I, I'd like to see anybody Catherine say about that because you guys were already together. At that point, we were like just friends. We met at high school, dated for summer and high school. And kind of went our separate way. That's a little

bright. So she was in Gainesville, Florida. We got re-acquainted at some point during the modeling time. And I was like, oh, she's great. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. I thought it was meat and ballet class. No. And then yeah. No. So we kind of had our life from office. This is a model, right? You're Abercrombian friend. Oh, yeah. Abercrombian fit. She has a kind of same thing.

“She's like, we just have five episodes. Like, no, it's Abercrombian fint, right?”

He's Amber Crombian. Amber Crombian. Amber Crombian is fint. He's a friend. Yeah. Abercrombian, but I probably saw you on bill, but whatever they're called, you know, up in the store. Yeah. I love the catalog. The catalog. He also did some underwear modeling. Yeah. Abercrombian for me is like, I remember the whole me two things started happening, then to like Bruce Weber, who shot that kind of stuff. And the stories that were coming out in

the allegations were like, yep, that happened to me, that happened to me. On the male model side, too. Yeah, I did. I was like, man, should I speak up? Because at that point in time, I was an actor with some visibility. I mean, definitely nothing like what I'm experiencing now. But there was a bit of a platform there. I just couldn't bring myself to like insert, you know, open up the canterworms and that conversation again, too. Were you hearing the dudes that were like, oh, me, too,

you're a dude, really? Kind of, yeah, part of it is like, I don't want people to think I'm doing this for publicity. I don't want to bring this shit up. But it was denied and settled in all those cases that were brought up, right? And it was like, man, I just wish people knew what was going on in that business. Yeah. And there was something being done to protect people. Because the photographers were largely predatory. It was a whole system. Yeah. The whole system is set up to facilitate that kind of

behavior. You're traded to photographers. You're traded between clients that want to, you know, have you. The agents are doing it. And they know what they're doing. I'm almost punched an agent in the fucking face. Because I had told them to stop sending me to people who were like, trying to molest me on these jobs, right? Yeah. I was like, I just need to eat. Okay. It's all I'm here for. I don't want to mess around. Like, there are people in the business. Like, I worked for JC pennies

for a long time. I was like a regular client of theirs. It fed me and it got me through and it wasn't splashy or cool. But they were just good people that just wanted to do it. And then there's the rest of the industry, right? I was like, I don't want to do that. I don't care. But you kind of

“have to, if you want to get the cover of the book. And I was like, no, and so anyway, I had this thing”

happen at this shoot. I went straight to that agency. I pulled this dude out of his chair. And I was like, I'm going to fucking kill you, dude. You knew exactly. I know I know, but I just wanted you to head. And I was like, no, it's like a game to these people. It's a game, man. And it's like, I remember, you know, I ran into him years later. The photographer. No, the agent that sent me into

that last time when I finally quit. And I was like, don't ever call me again. I'm done. That was

the last thing I ever do in this business. But it was so weird seeing him years later. The universe has a funny way doing this. The night of my reach a premiere for season one. Oh, wow. I ran into this dude at the lobby. It was like, I'm Ellen. And I was like, oh, my god, I know that. And I turn around and it's him. And he really started my acting career out of just a pure hatred for where I was in that business. And I was looking for opportunities to like just do something else outside of modeling.

He drove you out of there. He drove me out of there. And then there I was about to experience the most success I've ever had many years later. And it was like, confirmation that I survived it. Well, yeah, yeah. And did the right thing. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare, we are supported by all state checking all state first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking that your keys are actually in your hand before you close the car door. Have

ever seen a parking lot full of sun staring at your keys sitting right there on the seat four inches away and completely useless to you. It's a very specific kind of humbling. Yeah, checking

first is a good idea. So check all state first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds.

And for fast reliable help when you need it, add in all state roadside plan today. You're in good hands with all state. Potential savings vary insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions and availability insurance provided by all state North American insurance company North Brook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by all state motor club

“incorporated in all state affiliate. Could you go all the way to letting go of the resentment?”

I don't know. For the listener, Ellen just throw to the crowd and drop this chance. No, I don't know man. I feel so much right now just thinking about that because it's also like

what does that do for the world? It allows these predatory fuckers to just continue.

“Look at the politics that we do with right now. Like the White House is in ruins.”

Well, if I can, you have C. K. John the one. And like, you just do it. You just fucking do it. And nobody says anything. And no consequences. It wasn't done legally. There's no plan in place. Now you're asking for money to create. It's like, what are we doing? And there's no consequences. And so I'm just supposed to let go of my resentment that this fucking guy is just raping the world that he lives in for whatever gain he personally can have. And I'm supposed to let that go.

And then what? It fucking still exists. I don't know. I'm not going to let him go. I fucking hate it. Yeah. I hate that that shit still lives in the world unabated, unchecked, unresolved, unplanned. Look at the Catholic church in like the predatory behavior that is just going completely unmet with those victims that are still unheard, unseen, no forgiveness, no resolution, no cure. And what is releasing the fucking resentment going to do for the world? Like, I mean,

we should hold onto some of that anger. So somebody gets guy rich eating wakes up in a pool of their teeth and blood. Well, also just, okay, sorry. I tried to run it. Awesome spot. This is why my wife hates me. Well, they can't get that matter. No, no, no, no, no, no. I feel shit. I run this is fucking lovely. Okay. So just two things. I'm nine years

“older than you. I think eight years older than you. I got 43. I'm 51. And then I've had to be an AA for”

22 years or 23 years, right. So there is a saying in AA, which is resentments are fine for other people. A lot of people can hold resentments. Attics can't. Attics drink over resentments. The resentments are drinking poison and hoping your enemy dies. Yeah. So if you start from a just a different perspective, which is like, A, am I the type of person that can hold resentments? I can't live with them. They fuck me up and then I have to medicate. And you have as we just talked about a whole

bevy of fun. I don't think I'm that different. Yeah. Yeah. You have a suite of behaviors that my hunches, yeah. And you currently are laying it out as if it's a binary option. It's let all the fucking sickos win or carry the fire in your stomach at all times and let it fuck with your

court as all. There's a third option, which is like, you can confront all that. You can be vocal about

all that. And you can free yourself from the toxic part, which is like the resentment. Or there's an

“option D. Barrett 50 cal from 1300 yards. There's an option D, which is what I think I tend to do”

probably not well. Obviously, there's a lot that comes up and manifests in like unhelpful ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But I have accomplished, I think a lot of good because I have used the resentment that I probably have not like go of and turned it into motivation to accomplish things that I think benefit other people. It becomes motivation and grit and drive to like make the world a better place in a real meaningful way. I don't want to get into politics, but like if I do,

it's because I have so much resentment for the evils of the world that have abused the power and politics and neglected the opportunity and their obligation to help people in mass. I would go into that field and beat all these fucking people at their own game and be the best politician in the world so that I can have access to helping people in a way that they should have been helped the whole time. That's going to come from a place of resentment. I hate to say, like, how was do you

get there with that? Because otherwise you get complacent and content and I hate that. It stops in Russia. It makes you sedentary, lethargic, apathetic. I am so allergic to those things. It's not in me. I'd rather be motivated by resentment and this ugly fuel that actually gets shit done in the world.

Okay. Great. First of all, I love you. You're a brother. What's going on in your head is so familiar

to what's going on in my head. Okay. I just want to say that. Secondly, you would acknowledge that you're not going into the gem for two hours with resentment as the fuel are you? I have. You have. All right. Yeah. Okay. I have before. My hunch is you're quite motivated in many domains of your life without that being. You're only like, there's enough catalyst elsewhere. Think of the effort you put in out of love for your voice, right? Or the effort you put in for your wife? Like effort

is that your disposal? The thing I feel from you that I have so deeply is fucking bullies. They're

around me. That's I cannot observe it and I get involved. I'm literally powerless if I see someone that's bigger and stronger or has more leverage victimizing. So I just got it fucking getting involved. So I just want you know, you know, relate. You guys can hang out. What should, what should take a while? It was an amazing time until the unfortunate moment that's, you know, we're like something that's dropped in front of you that's like needs to be addressed. And then you take

care of it and confront it and then you go back to him. Look at what if you two are there or one of

you, there's always going to be that moment every single time. What does that say about you?

Because you, no, because you. What does that say about humanity? You're always looking for it. You find what you're looking for. That's our true. I have learned that over time. If my main

“mission in life is to protect people from bullies, guess what I find all the time that other people”

aren't even seeing. And guess who he becomes a bully. Well, hold on. Is that a bully if you're bullying a bully? Listen, that's not necessarily true. And it's true. Listen, I'm such a justice freak as well. So I like to see you. And I love that you care so much. But I think you can care deeply and do all the things and not feeling like exactly. Yeah. I guess I just cannot. I want you to be right. I'm right about everything. I'm not sure you are. I know I'm not. When I look out in the world,

the people that seem to enter this state of complacency and contentment that looks like a loss of inertia in the fight for justice. And that scares me. I understand he's scary. I really do. I'm the same way. That would be like my greatest fear. There's like, well, just the world messed up. What are you going to do? Yeah. That's the world. We need a thousand more people that are full of anger and rage. And a thousand less people that like what are you going to do? I mean, tell me I'm wrong.

Well, I happen to live with an example, right? So I mean, tell you one story on fortunately listeners already heard 20 times. But I think you'll you'll dig it. This happened. I don't know. Maybe 10 years into me with Kristen. One of these things happened, right? Oh, I know. We were driving on Sunset Boulevard. Someone threw a fucking huge drink at the windshield. I'm like, I'm emergency break up and I'm beating the show the guy in front of the newsstand in front

of Chattole Marmo. I'm in a suit or on our way to an event. Amazing. So what my wife told me at some

point, which broke through all of it, she said, I think you think that you protect everyone and

“your life that you love and it's so sweet. And I said, yeah, that's why I'm here. I'm here to protect my”

mom who got her S kicked my little sister, my brother. Anyone I love? And she said, in this, it's so honorable and you just want to make me feel safe, right? And I go exactly. And she goes, I feel so unsafe when I'm with you because anything can happen. And I've observed a lot of stuff happened. And that was the breakthrough for me where I was like, well, fuck me because my goal is to make you feel safe. And if I'm making you feel very scared, I need to recalibrate. At least around her.

Does that register at all? It's like, I was getting the opposite reaction that I was hoping I was giving to the people I loved. That register's to me, but I'm fully capable of like holding on to two ideas and truth at the same time. Yeah, I'm saying. And so like, I wonder if that fucking whoever has ever chucked a cup at a car ever again. Yeah, doubt. It's ever happened. And so not everybody is cut out for really a lot of people are not the warriors, right? Yeah, we need some

people who were different. That's right. And the tribe of 100 people, someone's going to meet the and, yeah, you know, anything about the conservative party these days, there's so much toxicity there

“and corruption, I think. And you could sort of blank it like all Republicans are bad or whatever,”

but there's something about the genetic makeup of some of those people that become like soldiers and stuff that like, we need people who are a little bit like, I'm going to do this, you know? Yeah, I understand that there's a balance to culture where we need some people and not everybody is meant to be around that kind of, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't also live in a world

where we actually create scenarios where that guy probably has never done that to somebody else again.

By the way, I want, you know, I'm in the middle of you two, fully. We had a big debate on here. I bet you can guess what month it was? Or I was so happy. I don't think a video has ever made me happier than watching you beat the shit out of the guy that fucking shoved you on your motorcycle. And Monica and I had a fucking half hour debate on this show about that? Yes. Oh, did you really? Because I loved it. It was my favorite thing I saw.

So funny. And then even just the poetic beautiful anywhere, it's like the cops are going to charge him and then you were a mentioned drug charge. Like the whole thing was in a bowl, my ideal scenario. And I was saying, Monica, and I do believe this and I'm with you on this, which is like, yeah, that's all finding good for people who play by your moral code. If you're all playing the

people. There is Putin in Russia. There is fucking Kim Jong, you know, these people are really exist. They're not playing by those rules. Someone on our side has to play by their rules. So I do believe that deeply. Yeah. There is a time and a place. And I'm not asking to give up any of that. What I would hope is that we can do that without carrying the toxic part that hurts us. That's really my only dream for you or for me. I want to share in your dream.

Do you, did you ever give her? No. What's that? In the smile and like middle school, I think it was like required reading in our school. Brent points as a friend of mine. He played them in the movie that you know, the giver. It's so funny because essentially the story is in that world,

somebody has this gift to receive all basically all the memories and pain of the rest of society.

Right? And so they impart that emotion to the giver and he's the vessel for that then, for the community. And it becomes a burden that you realize like one person is not meant to hold all this. Right? So that's right. It becomes a bit of a sacrificial lamb. You know, and it's a very interesting glimpse into like this ecology of like communal pain and suffering and knowledge and the zeitgeist and all that. But like some people are, I think kind of meant to be the giver.

“For a lot of people that's like their lot in life is like, I'm the one that's going to have to carry”

this for us. You know, some people say an empath is like a defense mechanism that people learn and others say that you're a deeply sensitive human being that just feels vibrations, you know, sort of

ahead of other people. And really they're the canary in the coal mine. I got a tattoo of a canary

because I've had this conversation with my middle boys so many times about these deeply feeling, you know, experiences, you know, realize like there are some people in society who's who role it is unfortunately or fortunately for us to be the canary in the coal mine. When the pain in the energy body, the pain body grows to the point where it's like somebody has to raise a hand and go like it's so great. I can't take it. And then I think we also

have archetypes in our society that are then the people that have to go out and fight that. People that have to go out and heal, people that have to feed. You know, I'm with you. I do believe that we are this wonderfully dynamic group of different character types that help us all succeed as one species. I want to be clear about something because I was dragged and we had a debate about you. Well, about about the situation as Dax said he was like, yeah, I love it. I'm like,

that's so great. Oh my god. I love this dude now. I know. It was like, we have him on. Like, okay. No, but I am very much for justice. In fact, sometimes we argue about this, where I'm like, no, no, no, we have to say we have to be on this show saying this. Like, it is important. And he's like, this isn't the place for that. We don't need to do that. So I am very just as oriented as well. But I literally cannot. I do not have the physicality to enact justice.

Well, I'm sure if, but not with violence, not with physical acts, but I do it another way. And so I guess my thought is like, there are multiple ways to be a sheriff and to be angry and to speak up

and to help facilitate the thing that you ultimately want, which is for people to care.

“Yeah. And so I think there's more than one way to do that. One way doesn't involve your”

publicists having a lot of work to do. But you're sheriffing in the way that you can with people who respond to that type of sheriffing. You're in the lane you were born into and you're doing it to your ability, which is like, you're very smart. You're very assertive. You're not afraid of confrontation. You'll get an email battle. You'll get on the phone and get an verbal battle. You're doing the things that you can do and you're born to do. And also, there's dudes shoving people in public

and pulling people out of cars. So your skill sets not going to work in that situation. You can't call the dude. You're not going to send an email. And so I happen to be born this size. I had older brother. I fought a lot. So that's now my role in that situation. But I think what we're arguing for is like, it's okay that that's a domain. This is a domain. I don't think anyone should be out picking fights, but I do think people should be protecting other people when they see someone

“getting hurt. I do think you should protect other people. If you take anything to the extreme,”

you start to get a better sense of it. If I reach a place of enlightenment, where I've let go of all resentment and anger and contempt, which sounds fascinating, I would love that future for myself. And for everybody, really you achieve a state of like zen, almost like a monk. I imagine like maybe coming like a totally empty vessel for the now as a monk. I just don't think society can run off nothing but monks. I agree with you. I agree. I also don't think it's just possible,

even wanting for that. You can't. And so I don't know where that leaves us, but I guess that's where the conflict lies for me, where it's like that just doesn't seem like a realistic solution to society. But don't you think, tens and we talk with this a lot with this type of personality,

I wouldn't be still sitting here if there weren't. But you guys, I do think 10 to operate at tens and

once. It's just true. You know, always. Yeah, the tens are really fun. For everyone, they're great.

It's like, oh my god, this is the best. And then we're in the same dude. Oh my god, untenable, you know. And so I do think the overall goal has to be to live between like a 3 and a 7. You know what that's? So well said, I'll agree and relant to that point. You're right.

“I think that makes sense. I can buy anything. I think you can get down to 7. I love that. Look,”

in my faith, you know, my core belief is I'm a Christian. I think what Jesus came to do was less establish a religion and more establish a way of leading with self-sacrificial love. It costs you something to love like that. 200 bucks, a little bit of time. My wife's referred. No problem, right? Yeah. Basically nothing. You're king into like, I think the most deep sacred truth in our entire universe is which that we are made to sort of in this environment,

lead with self-sacrificial love and all opportunities to do that. I think if we lived in a world where everybody's looking for opportunities to sacrifice a little bit of themselves or a lot, to make other people's worlds better, that's heaven. Yeah. You know, the whole idea of like, heaven and hell and you're going to do bad and there's some transaction that takes place in you. They go get this prize or you go to this bad place. Like, that's not it. It's we have the

opportunity to create with our tongue, with our words, with our actions hell or heaven right here, right now and experience the fullness of what is on offer. Okay. Did you know that Allen was on American Idol? I did. After three years of modeling, he became a contestant on American Idol top 86 came for Hollywood Week. Yeah. Got caught. I think you got a brutal cut. My real

world experience on the show. I was full of curiosity and I was full of gratitude. I had never

been to LA before and everything about it was to me the energy of this town was just full of passion. It was infectious. I more approached life as like a realist and an opportunist and someone who's like, I don't really know what I want to do, but I hope it's cool and fun and I'll give it my best when I find it. But I would suddenly around people that would kill to have a record contract literally slid your throat if it would help them. It meant so much to them. And Fastwarning the day we got cut.

“I remember they came in. I kind of tell it was going to happen. There was three groups I think and”

we were the first group to go. And so you know, found out and I was like, why is it cool experience? And I remember the person next to me fell on her back like doing a dead cockroach. So screaming and wailing like into the sky like it was like her whole life and everybody she loved. It just been taken from her. I was just observing it like what is it like to want something that bad? Right?

Like what is it like to want something that bad? I'd never felt that before. Yeah. And then I think

there's something wrong with me as an artist because I'm like, I think I can figure out a way to I don't think I'm not gonna cry. Yeah. You know? And so then I think maybe I'm not meant to do this. Maybe I'm not really an artist because I don't feel like that. Yeah, you're not going to die if it doesn't. I'll just figure out another way. There's always another way. So it was an interesting eye-opening experience for me. And it made me want to move out to LA. I still didn't know about acting

at that point. But for music, I was like, I guess this is a bit of a musical mechus. So this would be a great place. And I want to be around people that feel like they're going to die if they don't get this thing. I just want to learn about what that is. I was cat doing with like, hey, now we're moving to Hollywood. She was always like that. She grew up in a little town called

“DefiniExprings on a little farm and I grew up in Niceville. I think we're meant for bigger and”

better things. I mean, nothing wrong with that place. But it was like, I had to get out of there. Yeah. Also, you coming to ADHD, Nirvana, Hollywood. Yes, stimuli, the energy. Yeah, the fucking frenetic chaos. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. City of opportunity. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just wanted to be around opportunity. You just had a real stutter, stardy 15 years, 16 years for the first few years I posted on instincts. The American Idol thinks sort of open some doors to where people

that I would meet like, do you have like an agent or manager? I mean, no, you know, well, I can get you a meeting on this thing and just talk about how you were at American Idol. And so it's like kind of got me in a couple of rooms and then my very first thing was I played Aquaman on Smallville. Yeah, 2005 to 2010. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess start some on that. But there was a poignant moment in all this right, which is your guest starring on that show and then they were going to do a spin off of Aquaman.

Yeah. That happened. So right out of the gate, you know, again, coastline instincts didn't know what I was doing, but it was working. I started in season five on Smallville and there was a ratings record. The episode I came in on. So pretty deep into the show. They're like suddenly boost in ratings. Yeah. Nobody was showing up for me. But I mean, it was like, I think they thought the idea was that this character was so exciting that it was like something. Yeah. And so I was offered

my own show. Yeah. And it was very strange because like out of nowhere, suddenly I'm getting calls from

out of trouble. It's going to be a rocket ship. If you ever go to the club, you get a little too

drunk. You get in the fight. We're going to clean your mess up. You call me first. Okay. And oh,

wow. What is that? That's Holly. Yeah. And oh, five. And oh, five. Yeah. That's not like that.

“Now, but and I was such a goody two shoes. I was like, well, remember, I'm never going to call this guy.”

Yeah. And there was a merger at the time that happened between one of brothers in UPN to create the CW and the president of UPN took over at the time and looked at the slate. Like, he's a guy with no resume whatsoever. He's going to get his own show. Yeah. And so they kind of candid then just and heartly. So they came back to me though, because they had hired somebody and he got into trouble. I guess he didn't fall that new face. And they're like, that's not going to work. And so they

came back. We started the deal again. And I was like, oh, yeah, many of you might have shown. And then all of a sudden, Justin came off passions. And they were like, oh, this guy just came available. They really like him for this. And it was perfect for me starting out because I realized, oh, you got to hold real loosely to this stuff. Until you're like, check is in the bank. You're in front of the camera. Nothing is certain. It's error. Dude, don't wait for me.

If people go to the premiere and see themselves in a movie, they're not in it. Like, you got to wait until it's in theater. Even though it's your, it was a good life lesson for me. It's like, just be real. Just hold loose. So that would be up to 2010. And then 2014's kind of pivotal as well, because you get an opportunity to audition for four. Yeah. And walk me through that. I had been on a show called Blue Mountain State, which still has a lot of cultural relevance,

which has well-held to make as it's just at the time when we were making it, it just got missed. You know, as Spike TV trying an original scripted show for the first time. And there was really no audience for it, but still number one in the 18 to 35 male demo. And just people that it was four found it and liked it. But it was like, I could go outside. No problem. No problem. Nobody knew who we were. And the show was canceled. Spike scrapped their scripted department. It was sold the Netflix

and at the time. I think Netflix was like still selling DVDs. Yeah, right. You know, like, who's just sold the Netflix. And then became like number one comedy on their platform. And suddenly, I was in South Africa working on something. And we're going up like Lyon's head on a hike with my kids and everybody's stopping me. Oh, that castle. And I was like, what's happening? I've been on the show for the season. Yeah. Yeah. And so something happened in that moment where I was like, oh,

“like, I'm the guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should be”

ahead of me work. I have like this kind of arrogance towards my contributions to that show. And I saw things happening in the industry that I felt like it's not really about telling, it's just who's hot in the moment. It's also almost impossible to evaluate yourself. At that age in that moment in Hollywood on a show. It's like one day you're like, I think I'm the best member of this cast. I mean, it's like, I mean, I'm in this show when no one cares.

It's like, it's so fucking boring. I didn't have the right attitude. And I certainly had never,

again, I'm just an opportunist tripping my way through one opportunity after another and kind of meeting it with instincts and luck. And just happen to look like Aquaman enough. So when Thor comes around, I felt like I booked the Aquaman thing, just kind of based off looks like I look like the guy, you know, part of my French book, if I look like the guy and I had my sides in my hand. I didn't even memorize it. You know, I was like, I just wasn't like reading. Yeah. It was a uniquely

unusual audition in the sense that it was kind of what people who aren't in the business picture when they, like, it was a theater stage. There was a spotlight. The curtains have been drawn and there were two people in a darkened theater in chairs. Why is the casting director and it says, it was as kind of uncomfortable as it gets. Just kind of half-assed it. And it was so bad that the

casting director called my team and they're like, we never do this. We've seen thousands of guys.

We're not going to waste their time. However, when he walked in, I turned to my sister and I said, if he has the craft, this part is his and he did not have the craft. He did not show up and this was his part to lose. And it was like, oh, yeah. And that hit me and I knew I was standing at a crossroads where I had a decision to make about who I wanted to be in the business. And I enough success to feel like,

“I think I'm doing what I'm supposed to do for the rest of my life. Yeah. I need to take this seriously”

because I never want that feedback again. I don't even know what it means. The craft. It was like, what is the craft? It was so nebulous to me. So I kind of took a break. I started studying with this guy every day I would come in for three weeks just to work on the sides because I said, I want to know what I was supposed to look like. Yeah. There was just one read three weeks in where he said, that, did you feel that? And I'll go, yeah. Now, how do you do that in 24 hours? He goes,

that's the craft. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do you talk it about? I started working with Debequilla. She's now head of cast in every parent house. Yeah. She ran a little tight little master class. And my agent was trying to get me in and just spend six months or a year like just studying, the way that I should have studied and learning from her. And she didn't want to take me. Do I know you are? You're the guy that yells in that stupid show. When I was like, oh, I could do so much

more. Yeah. I read some quotes from her. You see, it means words with her evaluation. You at the top. No. Yeah. No, she's not a fan. Yeah. And I had to find my way in. So I said, I go, give me something to prove myself. So she gave me this really hard. You know,

all right, and I go home and work my ass off. And I'm going to prove to this person that I'm going to be

“good at this. And I showed up the next day. I nailed it enough to where she was like, okay,”

you can be in the class. But if you fuck around and you think you're here for women or whatever, he is not. Yeah. Yeah. Not like, then I'll kick you out in two seconds. He was like, okay. Yeah.

And so the first time I showed up to that class, nobody said a word. It was like a cult.

It was silent. Everybody sits down. I'm like, I don't know. Anybody know what he looks at me. Nobody says anything. I'm not like, hey, you're in the new kid. It was like probably 20 people. And in walk these two guy to girl. And they weighed up front and they're quiet. And Deb walks in. And she just kind of nods her head like this. Nobody said a word. Oh, wow. And they launched into this piece. And they're signing to each other. And so I'm like, oh, they're like, kind of hearing it.

But I was so captivated by this like 10 minute piece that they did. I was crying. It was so moving. They could not. And she goes the same kind of ideas. She's like, that was what we've been working to. How did you feel about that? I was like, oh, that was what, yeah, I did understand. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. They know sign language. They learn sign language for this class. Yeah. No one's ever going to see the work they just did. Yeah. We want to say like,

the sign of a true artist is somebody that can do their work, like paint their picture, right? They're song and throw it away and nobody will ever know. That's really like when you

“know that that's what you're born to do is when it's not for anybody. It's definitely not for money.”

It's not commercial. It's internal. Yeah. And like Socrates even talked about this, we have an obligation. There's a moral and ethical need for us to create for non-commercial reasons. It's so against our capitalists upbringing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing's worth doing unless we're monetizing. So my whole world view is like sort of being corrupted in that moment where by this beautiful thing that I just witnessed that was for the 15 or 20 people in that space. And no one else would ever see it.

And they did all that work for that sign language. Yeah. Yeah. It blew my mind. Yeah. That moment changed my career forever. Yeah. And I got that's what I'm up against. And that's who's working the business. And that's like what is expected. And that's how they work. And they're not even doing

this for a paycheck. Yeah. I better never complain about the work that I'm doing and I better show

up. Stay tuned for our share expert. If you dare. Now, how are you navigating? You had security on Blue Mountain? We're about to say. Yep. You had security or regular three seasons. How are you dealing with gaps in security? How much should only mentally? Well, my wife supported us in the early stages of our career. She was a senior financial analyst at ICM. Oh, wow. It was pretty helpful for us because

when I started to get to the point where there were contracts being negotiated. She's like, so Jennifer, anything gets the, you know, I don't think they're going to get it. But she knew enough for me to be like, oh, this is actually what's possible. It was helpful, you know, but we've eventually transitioned into her being a stay at home. So I started having kids. She left. So that's nice. You had the safety net of her. But your own value worth. I'm a failure. Were you good in those periods in

between or were they? Funny. You know, after that four moment, when I had decided what I was going to be, there was no stopping me. When I decided that I'm going to be the best to something, I'm going to be the best to it. And you just have to move. And I'm still that way. And I've

always been that way. You know, but I just hadn't really made that decision and hadn't galvanized

in my head what I needed to do with my life or how to do it. That was a pivotal moment for me. From then on, it's like, I'm going to be the best in the business. I'm going to get everything I'm after. I'm going to win every prize. I'm going to win every contest. You're the American idol girl. Yeah. And I got enough feedback from life. Thank God. You know, that was like, you're in the right place doing this. You know, I screen test for four or five things. And I wouldn't get it. I'm like,

I'm not just going up for a hundred. I just, nothing happens. I was up for everything. And when I wasn't, I was like, well, then I'm definitely not right for it. I'm okay. Because I'm right for enough,

“you know, and I remember one day, I don't think I've ever told this story, but I went out for a show”

called Titans. I went out for the lead role is essentially where I'm and you know, it's kind of like show about side kicks. And I remember walking out of that audition, so confident that I called catch you go, how to go. I go, I'm going to go buy a car. And she goes, oh, yeah, I'm going to buy a test. I just booked that show. But you booked it. And I was like, well, no, but I'm going to book that show. And I went on a car. Wow. I bought a few and on a day of the time. That thing was

soap as a fastest production car. They, you know, the time. I'm whipping around in this Tesla. And I have no idea if I really have the part of not my instincts were right. I got a call. And they were like, they'd like to offer you a different part of the show. And I was like, excuse me. Yeah, I just bought a car. I need the lead. And then I know you, they don't feel like you're right for the lead. I was like, I killed it. And they were like, no, they just want so many little young. I actually feel you're

feel like that's you. And I was like, no, and at the time, I passed so many times. Oh, yeah, I was like,

no, I'm the lead or nothing. And at the time, Shazam was happening. But I was on the way to screen testing and eventually screen tested for Shazam and had a lot of positive feedback from the studio. And so I kept getting calls from like Jeff Johns about doing tightens. And I was like, no, you know, I was born to play Shazam. Like a kid super. Yeah. Like not. So I turned it on five times. And on the one hand, they just kept offering me more money. Yeah, that's right. And I was like,

I'm going to negotiate. I really am not going to do. Yeah. And eventually I got to the point where I remember, I was in my backyard in LA. Jeff Johns called again. He was like, listen, I know for a fact, you're not going to get Shazam. The director really wants to work with somebody else. But I'm not going

“back to you for this part. You have to say, right now, they're going to. And I was like, so devastated.”

But I was like, all right, I'll do it. And so I took this other part, which I really enjoyed. But it happened. I was a fun person. Yeah. But yeah. So anyway, but I had almost no days off since then. That was a pretty interesting time in my career. There was some catapulting happening to like, new or wrongs on the ladder. But until then, I mean, to answer your question, there was like a relentless belief in myself after I decided like, I know what I'm doing. Okay. So 2020, 20, we start talking about

Jack Reacher. Yeah. And you get that. You have to put on a ton of muscle. Yeah. It was the first time I got to call from the studio. And they were like, so let's talk about your workout. And I was like,

this is the first time this conversation's ever happened. You've got a lot of fun calls. I've never

gotten like the fixer. Yeah. So let's talk about working out. I've never gotten those calls. I didn't love the call about your way. You need to be bigger and stronger. And I was like, oh, most people just trust that I'll show up. I've never had that call being under the microscope. Like that really taught me a lot. I can empathize with what women really experience in the business because that's like, yeah, commonplace for women. Yes. It's hard. Yeah. When suddenly like, I'm in my head about my body.

I'm like, everybody's looking at me. They're like, we want photos and send us weekly. And I'm like, we, we, we, we, we, we, we. Yeah. I wouldn't like that. Yeah. It was hard. But I made it my mission. Although on their side, if I make the argument for them, which is like, in the book, he's fucking enormous. Like mythologically large. Yeah. Like, in fact, I only know this because I was researching you, but yeah, there was a revolt when Tom Cruise played him. People like, what the fuck are we talking

about? The guy's supposed to be 65 and humongous. Yeah. So in their defense, it's like, we're going to spend a fortune on this. This is going to be the thing. It has to be perfect. The guy's

“got to be enormous. That's what we want. If that's not for you. Great. I also believe in that,”

which is like, no, no, this is the thing we want. And I was really unproven. Nobody in the studio system there, or at the network was like, slam dog. I understood kind of like, who I was. I'm just like, guy, they're like, taking a huge bet on. Yeah. Yeah. It was risky, right? And so they don't know who I am. They don't know my work ethic. They don't know my drive. They don't know anything about me. And they're just like, we need to manage this. They micromanage that moment of my career.

You know, Don Granger, who I love. I'm a huge fan. He's been my boss on breacher since the beginning. He's, you know, a paramount. But like, he was Tom Cruise's partner for forever and a guy dance dude. Yes. We're in Scotty. It's no paramount. He wrote me a five page handwritten letter about every detail of what that performance should look like and gave it to you day before we started shooting before in this scene. This is what you should do with your face, your jaw. This is where

you should clinch. This is how you should look relax. It was micromanage that and I appreciate it. Yeah. It was super helpful because I was like, all right, I'll take all this in. Yeah. This is

“good for you anymore. Right. I was like ready for that. I wanted it. I realized I was a very small”

part of a big machine. And it was going to be a village that was making this character come to life. And I was just sort of the vessel. Right. And so I released myself to this feeling of like, this is mine. I'm impressed. That would have triggered every insecurity I'm walking around with. Like, oh, this dude assumes I can't do any of this. Totally. I had to let that go because I knew it was bigger than myself. And I wanted to succeed. Right. And so I was like, this is probably what

this one is going to take to work. There were a lot of cooks in the kitchen and nobody quite knew what Reacher was at the beginning. And so everybody had a different take. He's more stoic. He's more mean. He's more angry. He's funny. And so I knew the part well enough. I had every script memorized completely. So now it'd be like, okay, my turn and so another producer would walk over and can I do the version where Reacher's really funny and kind of like loose about it? I don't

know, like, all right, let's do that. Oh, cool. They gave themselves all the options. So they could make it anything they want it. There's a version of Reacher for season one that's every version you can

imagine. So Reacher's fucking enormous. Like 56 million global viewers in one week of season two.

I don't know if people understand how enormous that show is. It's pretty unprecedented. It's fucking mega. Which crazier for me centers on this one person, this titular character. It's not like stranger things where you're part of like an amazing ensemble. I mean, yes, we're a part of an ensemble every year, but it's an anthology and it's mostly rotating and for that much visibility to really be on one person is very unusual and a gift in so many ways and I'm so grateful.

And then it's opened up the door to all these other projects, one of which I watched last night, Motor City, what do you think? I fucking loved it. As I think I told you right when you walked in,

like, I'm going to watch this movie with this dude, Alan. I'm sure it's going to be final at like,

“I'm going to love it. Yeah. You know, if you want to watch it, she's like, yeah, we're going to”

watch it. But it's so much more than that. It's so Shakespearean. Yeah. It's so unexpected. So it's a silent movie, Monica. No dialogue. There's dialogue. And it's so funny because of course I've not seen a trailer. I've known nothing about it. We sit down, we watch it. It's fucking opening. Seems really cool. Kristen's like, oh, that was a cool kind of montage to open. Like, I feel the vibe. This is good. Waiting. Okay. Now we're going to hear some talking. What's

we get to like, I think maybe 10 minutes and Kristen's like, there's no way they've gone 10 minutes and then they're going to hit us with dialogue at 15. Yeah. So you just kind of start realizing, oh, fuck, they're going to do this. There's this tension of like, oh, this is great. How are they going to pull that? Are they going to pull this off? Yeah. And you guys fucking pulled it up. You mean, like, silent movie that was riveting and awesome, and visually fucking beautiful and

emotional. The film, he killed it. He really honored what was on the page, Chet St. John wrote it.

wrote it. Yeah. But what? He never had a dialogue. It was a very thin script or you know,

so I'm like, what is this? Can I just say it was on the blacklist in 2009. So if we both are known, Hollywood, every leading man had been attached to this thing. Oh, I read that. Every leading man literally Jake Jillon Hall. I mean, the list Hugh Jackman, like Chris Evans, Gary Olmons and Darl Butler, Adrian Brody. It was green at nine times different directors. When I read that script, I remember I sat back and I was like, oh, I just read a masterpiece.

I've never felt so deeply connected to that point in time to a piece of material that I just read. I mean, it was so moving. I was like, this has to get made. Yes. So for people who aren't Hollywood, the blacklist became this thing. I don't know what year. But basically, all these scripts pass through town, mostly assistants just read them. They kick them up to the agent. If it's good, then the agent kicks it to the actors and producers are involved. But at the end of every year,

there's kind of this committee that decides, what was the best scripts that didn't get made? Yeah. And it's the blacklist. And it's a cool list of like, you know, the 10 best scripts are however many it is. And this was one of them for a long time. And two dozen nine. Yeah. It was the branch out of Greg Silverman who at the time was president of Warner Brothers. It was interesting because he called Chad and he go, I want to make a movie with no dialogue so that everybody around

the world can have the same shared experience without language getting in the way. And Chad's like, okay. Wow. And this is what he cooked up. Well, by the way, it forces you as a writer to do the thing you're told as a writer to do, which is like, don't tell me anything you could show me. That's one of the principles of screenwriting. We rely so heavily on verbal cues. It's just one

“tool in our toolkit, right? And so when you remove that, you have to make really interesting”

choices, right? And so anyway, man, I'm so proud of it. I want so badly for this to do well so that we can continue to make more interesting stories like this. Just continue to stretch the canvas for what's possible for storytelling in Hollywood. Yeah. It's a radical, huge swing that totally worked. I'm so glad you feel that way. So it's set in 1973 Detroit, Ding Ding Ding. You're an ex-con. You mean a girl in an alley. She's getting roughed up by her boyfriend or we're assuming her boyfriend.

You handle that dude and his buddies. You guys start dating. And then there's a frame up. And now the movie kind of takes off, right? For me, I think this would be a really unique fun challenge because I rely on my verbal everything. It's all I am. Like I am a talking machine. And I'm an improv machine. And I'm not sure I can give you the face that you need to emotionally, but I can give you like right? I'm part of the problem. I rely on that so much to do a

movie where you took away my superpower. And I just had to convey everything through action. Yeah, I feel the same way. I mean, it feels limiting and it feels like is this going to be enough. And I also don't want to like over project because I feel like I'm like compensating for anything. For me, I was like, I guess I'm really just going to have to trust this. Yeah. But part is a genius. And you can just tell he had it under control. He comes from commercials and

videos. It's very stylized. Yeah. He made one about Billy the kid that was such a cool

“interesting take on that story. It played really well. I think Venice or can you got noticed in the right”

way? Yeah. Yeah. Visually it's fucking stunning. Shaling Woodley's in it. She's incredible.

Ben Foster is amazing. Ben Foster. It's just so fantastic. And it's such a cool experience. And yeah, I'm glad to hear that Silverman was conscious of this directive. Because I was thinking when we were watching and not even knowing that. I think I said, Chris, and I'm like, oh yeah, this is like Cirque du Soleil. I want to see a few minutes on Cirque du Soleil. And the reason that's the most successful show in Vegas year over year is because everyone visiting from Japan,

from China, anywhere, the Middle East, and go to the show and they enjoy it just as much as people. And I was like, oh, this is cool. And it's a spectacle. Internationally international. Yep. Yep. Yeah. It's very cool. You're so much stuff going on. I'm not really sure how you made all this stuff.

I don't think we've announced the exact day, but we have Reacher very shortly after season four.

“And I think it's the best season we've made yet by far. Wow. And then you have Runner with Owen Wilson.”

We have Runner with Owen Wilson. That's September. We don't know. Yeah, I think I read that online. Yep. How'd you like working with him? All right. Great time. He's super smart. So smart. Disarmingly smart. Yeah. Because you know, you have some ideas. As we all do, like you have some false relationship with characters that he's played and comedians in general. They're playing the phones and movies. Yeah. Exactly. But anyway, you meet him. He's hyper intelligent.

Oh, yeah. And very thoughtful. And I get feedback a lot. I've really moved like heavily into producing. And so developing material, setting material up at studios and then executing that. I love doing that. And part of that is because I can see the macro well.

Right. I'm never just looking at my character. I develop all the characters in story.

I just wrote this Vietnam story that we shot for Amazon. I was going to co-wrote that. Was it called Thornton Incredible movie? It's in the can now. We're in post. But it was a writer on that. Like I like being a part of these ideas and mining for the best story there. But not a lot of actors. A lot of them are more myopic. Right. So when you get into conversations with actors at your hiring or you're working with

the conversations almost always stay in the realm of like their character.

“You know, my I wouldn't do that. And what if my character did this?”

Yeah. And that's sort of to be expected. And so when you show up and have a conversation and he's talking about in the 1600s or sailors that were going into the port city. And I started thinking for this story, it's sort of mine. He's only just read a weird book. Totally. That he's processing everything coming

in through this year. It's philosophical and existential and thoughtful and just so much more

about the big picture of what we're making and why. It caught me off guard a little bit. All three of those Wilson brothers are shockingly brilliant. Yeah. And I think the parents were professors and Dallas or something. At least one of them was and they just read all day long. But they're story tellers. They do know how to tell a whole story. Yeah. All those things he wrote with West. Those are like the best West movies or the whole one in West movies. Yeah. It was great. He's really impressive.

We had a great time. And then the man with the bag is Christmas time. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Santa. He crushed it. Allen. I saw the I saw the Reacher. It's so good. You're doing really good. I'll tell you when I went on a motorcycle ride. I didn't know him. Yeah, I went on a motorcycle ride. Tom Arnold invited me. We go up to the rock store in Malibu. This is 20 years ago. He was the governor at the time. Motorcade taking us.

I'm so excited. I can't believe it. We sit down for breakfast. I get up and go to the bathroom. And when I come back from the bathroom, I sit down and he goes, Docs have seen the punk. They've seen the without a paddle. You're hilarious. I'm so excited to see everything you're going to do. And I'm like, I can't believe Schwarzenegger knows my resume. We walk outside to get on the motorcycle. Said I go to Tom Arnold. I go fucking what about Schwarzenegger? Like,

no, no, no, my shit. And he goes, oh, buddy. He said, you went to the bathroom. He's like, what the fuck is this guy? He's a man. Well, it was like we're going to the him. It was a treat. He taught me a lot about how gratitude should manifest in the life of somebody dealing with fame. I'm transitioning into a part of my journey where I'm recognizing how present fame is and how toxic it is. I'm intrusive. But also like this relationship that I

have with the audience, I'm so grateful for. And I want to foster that. I want to continue to tell

“stories that resonate with people. And there's like real symbiotic relationship there, right?”

I appreciate it. Man, I hate fame, right? Who wouldn't my family hates it? My kids were interrupted a thousand times a day when we go places and they seize up because they're invisible. You're also in a unique situation that like Vince Vaughn's in, right? Which is like, you're not hiding. There's no hiding you. You're a fucking enormous. People in my family have a different relationship with it. So like my wife is like, I want you to have a very binary black one when your family is around.

You do not take pictures with people. You don't allow those interruptions. And that's really hard for me because on the one hand, it's just more efficient to be like sure. Let's do this. And on the other hand, they don't know that they're the 30th person that interrupt us today. So then I'm caught in this place where I feel like bad that it's happening. And I don't want to disappoint them. It's just

like, man, there's so much conflict happening, right? So you never know how those interactions are

going to go, right? It's scary going on the world. You know, because you're like, I don't know what today's going to have for us or who I'm going to frustrate. And then I work with Arnold who deals with this on a degree that I will probably never experience. Right. People will. Yeah. His level of fame when you're with him is something that is like, oh my god, it's hard to describe. It's 100% of people that see. 100% of people. And his energy is so felt to understood by the zeitgeist, people feel

him before they see him. I mean, you can see them like this. And then they're like, what is this feeling in this? Just stir up into the floor. Yeah, there's like a meteor coming through. Yeah, it's like, man, his pole, the gravity is huge, right? And so he's dealt with it for decades on a degree that I can't quite understand. He stops for everybody. We were being the middle of a scene in a diner and people would be like, bang it on the glass, you know, because our lockup wasn't tight enough. Like, oh my god,

you went down a picture with us. Oh, no, it'd be right there. Yeah, you got to come outside. No, take a picture with them. I'll be having to stole you. Yeah. He has no problem. He makes time for

excuse. And she's like, he doesn't have kids. You know, so it's just like, man, anyway, but he showed me something really interesting in the way that he approaches life and his lot in life. And I really deeply admire how he treats people. You're not going to leave without telling me my favorite thing that I saw all year. So you're in your neighborhood. Do you have a decadent? No, you're on a Kawasaki? I was on an injured the time. Yeah, you're on a Kawasaki. And then you got your boys riding.

“Yep. How much had you been riding in the neighborhood? Do you think it was really that annoying?”

Okay, for context, because people have no context about what was going on. Yeah, people just saw a video of you. I got the rights to MotoGP. I love motorcycles. They're so fun. And I want to tell stories about, you know, I want to make like a cool, fast and furious kind of, like, thing for motorcycles. Like, internationalized. Like, it's quite love. It's cool. You see, pits doing a TT movie right now. Yeah, shining. You know, like, heems worth doing a motorcycle thing. Like, it's cool. It's like, we like that.

It's cinematic and cool. And so, you know, we just set up a film. But I'm going to be riding every bike in that thing and riding it in crazy scenarios. I really got to know how to do every kind of stunt. So I have every kind of bike you can imagine all levels of stunt bikes, dirt bikes. And I practice on these things all the time. Yeah. And the bike that I was riding that day, I had just received.

It was custom built for me. And it's exceptionally loud. And so I never left first gear because

it's not meant to go out. It's meant to go up. So I was just kind of playing with this thing while they're putting along. We're hardly moving. Yeah. The kids are riding slow. And it was our first time around. I've never met that guy ever in my life. I've never seen him before. He lied to TMZ

“about us. Like, I told him the day before, hey, buddy, you should really slow down. None of that was true.”

He wasn't even there when we went up his street. We just went up one time. So he's in the back of neighborhood. We go around right through all the streets. We go through the back called to say, we do that all the time. Yeah. Every day I'm in town. We do that kind of thing. When everybody knows who you are, you're used to getting strange looks from people. Right. And everybody in the neighborhood knows who I am. Yeah. They know we live there. And people that kind of like gawk or do a slow stare,

it's normal. Right. And so I think this guy's just doing what everybody does. And you could see, I'm like, not really slowing because I didn't think he's going to step in front of me. I thought it was like somebody going, oh, it's going to be, hey, yeah. Yeah. And there aren't any steps in front of me. And I'm like, yeah. And that's when I got weird. You know, something like this is obviously not a normal reaction. But that bike, I wasn't going to fast in his loud. So I can understand how

somebody who doesn't know what's going on. It might be like, it's so loud. He's racing through the neighborhood. Yeah. You know, anyway, I get myself together. He starts coming at me pretty aggressively. I push him down. Yeah. He's a big dude, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had to be six. Yeah. He's six. Three. Probably. He's four. And he was heated. And so he's stepping in my grill and I push him back. He's in your shit. He is violated. I don't do the thing where I'm like, you know, you see videos

people on YouTube fighting and they're like, they're in their face for five minutes about the kids and stuff. Like, that's not going to happen with me. Right. So as soon as you start coming, I put you back and I get close to him and I smell alcohol. And I was like, oh, it's Sunday, like 11 a.m. This guy's drunk. So I asked him, he didn't say anything. And I was like,

“that's what this is. And so in my mind, I'm like, all right, that's what this is, just leave.”

And so I go to leave. And he gets in front of my bike again. And he can't really tell on the body camera. But he shows me two handed shoves me off the bike. Yeah, it's on the other bike. It's on the ground.

And I'm like, no, that's the second time I tried to leave the neighborhood. Yeah, you tried to de-escalate.

And that was it. At that point, there's no more conversation. Yeah. I've got to protect me. And I've got to protect my kids. And I've got to get us off the street safely. Yeah. And that means getting him out of the picture. Yeah. So I hit the guy. Yeah. And as it's happening, I'm like, I really can't hurt this. I don't want to knock him out. I don't want to break a phone. You want to get him out of your life with a least amount of aggression. You want him to go like, oh, okay, I'm out.

Yeah. But I wanted just enough to where he was like, okay, oh, I see where this is not. I don't want that. You know, you didn't want that. Why don't watch that tape back though. I'm like, he actually came back again. I wasn't even paying attention because I was trying to get my bike to turn back on. And when you look back at it from the neighbor's tape, which is so and helpful to my life, he like was on the approach again. I didn't even notice. You know, he was for the other

neighbor was just videoing those people. Right. There's a couple of other friends. That's like only the last 10 seconds of that thing, none of the beginning. And what sold the TMZ within six or eight. Very strange. Yeah. And this dude went and did press. I watched this guy talk. He's so full of shit. Well, blah, blah. I'm impressed you. I mean, obviously, I think it was the right decision to not press charges and just not be involved with the dude in any capacity. If anything makes you go like,

me, God is real. It's when you buy a chest pack a year before and you're a daily writer.

And I've never once. I bought it thing. I like maybe I'll just use that stuff. And I put it away.

Never once if I thought like I need to put that thing on. Yeah. And I stepped into the garage that day. And it was like somebody talked to me. I was like, where's that thing? And I was like, where is that thing? I should put that on just see what I get. I don't even know where it is. And I dig through my cabinets. And I find it tucked away on top of a shelf. And I'm like, trying to figure out how you've been putting it on. It's a body cam, right? It's a body cam that holds yourself on. Yeah.

If I hadn't had that dude, I'd probably still be in jail. Oh, because the cops came to arrest me that day. Yeah. And they only had the tape to go off of that like thing. God. Yeah. Thank God. It was a gift from God. I think that I had that permission or that intuition that I put it on that I had it that I could wear that. It changed the course of my life forever. Yeah. How did you respond?

like that kind of conflict. I like to work. I don't like things that are ill gotten. I don't like

“bad press. Did you go straight to, oh, this is the shoe dropping. This is all too good. Here comes”

the shoe dropping. Yeah. I was like, oh, this is like people that, you know, talking about how like when you've reached success, you self-sabotage because people aren't okay with having success. And I was like, I've self-sabotage myself. Like, this is me not being ready for success or whatever. You start beating yourself up. Yeah. And then my kids had to experience that. It was really hard. I'm like, that guy doesn't know how much my kids won't ride with me anymore. Like, he robbed

me of that, man. Like, fuck that dude, fuck that. I'm so much anger. I've so much resentment that I just get quite like off. Yeah. And I've nowhere to go because there's no real resolution there. I just decided to let it go. But he still took a lot for me. My bike still doesn't work. I guys still have people trying to fix it because things broke on it. And it's custom parts. And so that my kids won't ride with me. I mean, he is the most hated man on the internet. I mean,

I mean, you have that going for you. It definitely is like for you. But it made you hero for me. So I appreciate that. You know, I loved it. You tried your hardest. I tried to get out of I did. You had your kids with you. I fully get the whole scenario. And this dude insisted on this interaction. And then he paid the price. So in a box of with a bow for me, you did perfectly. I appreciate that. Yeah. But I also understand when the whole world now all of a sudden is talking

about you that it just amends you terrifying. Yeah. My wife was at a retreat. The Hoffman process. Uh-huh. They take your phone. I had no way to contact her. I was the sole caretaker of our kids, right? And so I had another week with her being gone where I couldn't even communicate with her. I just know she's getting out of the Hoffman to learn this. Yeah. I'm like dealing with my kids and I'm calming them down and reassuring them that it's going to be okay. And we're going to

get arrested. I'm not going to get arrested. I don't think the cops call me outside. And you know, there's an army of cops on my porch. And I'm like dealing with this. And I'm trying to call my kids down. Like the whole thing. And then she's not there. And I'm texting her and I'm like, "So I should just have to punch a guy." You know, like the rollercoaster of text that she experienced when she got out of there was like, "So I think the day is letting me go out."

“Like, you should always read the last email first. Yeah. Yeah. The problems always solved themselves.”

Yeah. But I had no support in that moment. Yeah. I had no the buddy to process it with. I was trying to be strong for my kids. Yeah. I was terrified because I thought my entire career tank. Yeah. You know, I had CEOs of studios calling going, "What is this tape? Are we okay?"

Because I'm dealing everywhere. Yeah. It's stressful. Oh, dude. I like I'm never going to work again.

So anyway, it was a lot for me. It was very healing to see that soul. And again, that's sort of why though there's just a lot of tension in being human where it's never binary. It's never as simple as going, like, you know, we have to live in the colorful gray, the gray in between that says we need to stand up for ourselves. And we also need to have a heavy heart about those kind of situations because we shouldn't want for those kind of things to transpire. And you don't. You didn't. Again,

that's why you're so clean on this. You didn't want that you tried your hardest together. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate your support. Just know as out here on your behalf. I'm sorry. The thing that really just hit me is, like, if my girls don't want to ride with me out. It's temporary. It's temporary. That was our best bonding. There's nothing fun. They're

“riding with your kids. There's nothing. There's nothing. You're like, look at us. You need to drop on”

it. And they get done and they're like, that's the most free. I've ever felt that. And you're like, oh my god,

what are we building? This is amazing. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And these memories that they're going to

have of us doing that. I can't convince them to do it again. And I don't blame them. Yeah. They don't want to do. They don't want to deal with that, dude. Ellen, I dig you so much. Thank you. You're funny. I really hope we see each other in Tennessee. Everybody check out Motor City, July 24th. Please do prom route for this thing. Yeah. I am too. It's so cool. It's so brave. And you guys executed. You have a very small window of re-entering. Whether you can make it work. Yeah. And you crush it. So it's so good. I hope you'll come back

season nine of a richer. Yeah. Thanks, brother. Thank you. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks. Monica Padme. Hi. How are you doing? I thought there was going to be more. It seemed like there was going to be a little more. Yeah, of course. It was it sounded like there was a statement that was going to fall. But there was, but I was really

just thinking about the fact that we wrote it the attic today, which is always a great start for my

day. Just wanted to throw that out. Oh, that's nice. And I do worry when you live across the street. I guess I could just walk over to your house and then walk you here. Well, yeah, that might be a fun ritual. And so we won't ever have to travel. That's true. We live where we work. Yeah. We can walk from your house to the attic three steps. Mmm. So exciting. Yeah. So I mean, we should tell the arm cherries because I mean not to like bring it down. I know they're going to be sad about this, but

eventually our attic that we're in right now is going to get demolished. It's going to be dust and ash. Yeah, but it's going to be a wild. You know that part? I hope we cannot get a permit for that thing. I'm trying to build. It's just not happening. Oh, great. So well, yeah. I mean, great for the

is supposed to go this huge garage. Uh, there's no designated place in our new house. What about the

“gym? I mean, the basement, right? Yeah. That's kind of what I've been pushing bell for. So in our”

current house, we have a basement. That's where my gear is, right? Yeah, it's my gear. Rip gear. That's where the heavy things are that I lift up and set down. Yeah. So I said, look, on, I know the basement of the new house is a theater room. Yeah. But it's going to probably have to be a gym for a year. She did not like that. She was like, put it in my office. I'm like, I can't fit all that crap in your office. What about the gear? Also, then we're going to have an

office. She's not thinking things through. No, and I'm like, I can't go a year without working. How commit suicide in the backyard? Oh, my god. Don't say that. Oh, my god. By the way, can we talk about suicide? Oh, sure. I mean, I know this is going to be a weirdly encouraging take on suicide. Oh, goodness. Okay. For real, um, as I get deeper into Gladwell's book, I don't want you to read it so bad. I will. This motherfucker. I love it. The things he tackles. Yeah. He's so fearless. So it's

talking about all the famous poet, um, she killed herself. Emily Dickens. No, but you're in the right world. Emily Plickinson. Life. Why? Oh, Plath. Sylvia Plath. Sylvia Plath. So she killed herself in England and what she did was put her head in the oven and turned on the gas. And at that time, every single house in London burned a type of fuel called town gas. Did not natural gas that we now use. So town gas was this kind of dirty mix of all these different gases, but you could kill

yourself quite easily with it. So when all of London had town gas, the number one killer of people was town gas was people committing suicide with town gas because it was very easy to do. And so the traditional thinking on suicide was like, well, if you get rid of town gas, uh, people just

“find another way to kill themselves. And that's what I thought going into this chapter. And that's”

called the displacement theory that, okay, yeah, if you took away guns, then people would just use knives or whatever, but the work of a certain sociologist or psychologist started investigating and realized that there's a strong coupling aspect to suicide. So it's not just that someone's on a war path to kill themselves. It's that they have ideations. They think about it. And then the situation is right. And so what happened was when they switched over to natural gas, the suicide rate

did dramatically drop. It didn't just move over to another method. Yeah. And then he goes into the folks who have jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, which I think is like 1500 at this point. It's

the most of any structure in the world, the most people have killed themselves. And um, there's always

been these movements to put up barriers so people couldn't do it. But then the argument was, well, no, they'll just jump off something else. We're going to spend all these millions on these barriers. And they're just going to jump off something else. So I went out and put it into health care or something, uh, some prevention, which again, I would have probably bought into that theory. Right. But what one of these people did is investigated of the, I want to say it was like, maybe 500

people who had been interrupted in their attempt to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge over 70 years, a person went and interviewed all those people that had been interrupted. And only 25 of the 500 had end up killing themselves. Wow. Wow. Yes. Isn't that so interesting? Suicide is one of the hardest topics. Mm-hmm. For me, I get very anxious during that kind of conversation. Yeah. You know, I used to have when I had a really bad anxiety. I used to feel like I was not suicidal, but I

felt like all of a sudden I was going to happen. I was just going to look down and I will have done it. Uh-huh. Like it will have happened to me. Yeah. Which is not what happens. But I was, yeah. So I had a lot of anxiety around suicide. Yeah. But I think that's really profound. And sorry. I mean, not to be political, but this, well, 20,000 people a year killed themselves with a handgun in the U.S. Now, look, I'm a gun owner. I just want to be dead on us about that. I own guns. I also,

if there was a button on the wall, I could push, and there's no guns in America. I would push that

button in one second. Yeah. So I have a very complicated relationship with it. I don't like

them enough that I would want one kid in a school getting shot over my lot. Loving of them. Again, I know it's much deeper than that for people. And it's a constitutional right now the stuff. So I'm not even going to get into the weeds on that. I'm only going to say the data he gave is that it would appear that it would cut at least 10,000 deaths all over a year off because

“this coupling mechanism is so strong. Just, it's amazing. That's why I'm so drawn to everything”

he writes. Almost every chapter I enter with the exact mindset that most people have. And then

my opinion change. It's so rare. Not for you in general in life. It's hard for people to do that.

Yeah, but I'm giving you a couple of things. But I find it very you fore and do seem like as I was driving home for more yesterday listening to it. And I was just like all a little baby in a toilet bowl of stew. Should we tell people that we think we might be having a baby? Oh, sure. I want to, I don't want to start the rumor mill. But I used Monica's toilet at her new house, which is a non-functioning house. And what I did is I flushed the toilet

and it flushed properly. And I was like, Oh, the water's still on. Great. Then I whisked. Okay. Yeah. Then I hit the flusher again. Oops. See, there's no water in there. No. So then I came

to you and I was like, I've peed in your commode and I got it. I'm going to have to bring over a

five gallon bucket of water and flush this. You know, like, yeah, we'll we'll get to it. Yeah. And then you were there like a couple days after. Yeah. And you were going to pee your pants. Yeah. And so you peed on top of mine. I did. I didn't want to put pee in another toilet because I would just be multiple things we'd have to finger out. So I peed on top of your pee. And it's all still there. This is weeks ago. Oh, gee. And it's embarrassed for us. And we think that

maybe the mixture of the pee. A life of growth. We don't know. We don't know. Maybe Malcolm

“Waddle could weigh in on how many broth babies served. Historically, how many broth babies are?”

I think this would be so exciting though. If we went over there and took, we'll we went over there with the five gallon water bucket. And then we heard my mom that that in there is a little yellow baby down there. I love it. I wish we would or little urine baby. Yeah. It would probably need to like live in that toilet. It might need to live in that toilet. You're right. And it would be John this. So. Well for sure. Okay. Extreme. Okay. Anywho. Okay, Claire. Claire. So the TV movie that

Kristen was. Oh, yes. We got the name of it. Yeah. I got the name of it. The TV movie that Kristen was in with Claire was called Polish wedding. And she had braces in it. But in the still that she showed me her mouth is closed. Do you think that was a racist thing where they were like, all Polish people wear braces. Everyone in this movie has to have braces. They've bad teeth. They spent all their money on braces. That's a stereotype. So Kristen had braces in real life or she had, um,

like prosthetic braces. Claire had good question. No, Claire didn't Kristen it. She said, I had braces.

“Oh, but maybe you're right. Maybe that was the character had braces. Because did Kristen have braces?”

Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think she did. I want to say she had them for like a week. Okay. Well, that's just enough for me. No, like they were almost perfect. No, I don't buy any of that. No, no, no, no. Well, they went to the orthodontist and he goes, but I can have this fixed by Sunday. I'm going to put these braces on. I'm going to take them up Sunday and you're going to have a beautiful smile. I would ask Google, but instead I'm going to ask Kristen's mom. Okay. We have a quick question.

Quick question. Did Kristen have braces in life? And for how long? And if so for how long? Was it over a week? We'll see if she responds. I think she's at work, but we should open up an orthodontics clinic. That's called one week orthodontia. Whether we could. Yeah, huge. Yeah. I know. I know, but think how much business we would do in that first few weeks before people got wise to it. Oh, you're morals. You're more, oh my god, like the thing you sent me last night. Oh my god, I have the greatest idea. You think I can't even say?

“It's a, you have to make it very clear, you're kidding. Okay, so I'm, I'm definitely joking. I”

knew plans to really do this, but we're watching the morning show. Yeah. And, you know, it's loose. I'm guessing it's loosely based on Matt Lauer. Maybe they haven't said that explicitly, but I would say yes. Okay. So it appears to be kind of based on Matt Lauer. And of all of his indiscretions. There's no arguing that guy was incredibly good at that job, right? Yeah. And

Bill O'Reilly, even though I can't, I never watched a show on my politics or opposite,

tremendous at that job. He was number one of the ratings for every year he was on that network. So anyways, I was started about launching a network called canceled, canceled network, or canceled TV. And it's just all these guys that have been canceled. And, you know, I think people in public would be like, I hate that person, but then at home they would probably watch it, because they would think no one's looking at them. It was really an exploration

of the difference between your public and private. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. And that's a joke.

I don't, I'm not saying I want it to be successful. I think it would be very successful.

I really don't. You don't? No, I don't. I mean, I think they'd have a percentage of people who would like it. But do I think it'd be a popular no? And then you, you made a, you came over the top, or like, I was saying, in love or in Bill O'Reilly, which I don't think either was accused ever of forcing anyone against their will, rampant abuses of power, but I don't think there's any rape allegations, right? But then you came over the top and said, you could have Weinstein do

like a movie of the week, too. And I said, why, but that one, he's, he's a, he's a, well, I had

“a feeling. So actually, that's why I said it. I was wondering what you were going to say. You didn't”

respond to me for the rest of the night. Oh, no. But it's gone up in the show. You've told me to watch. But I wondered what your response is going to be because I thought maybe you were going to say something like that. Like, that's not the same thing. Uh-huh. But it's close to the same. It's the same thing. You're right. You're right. It is. It is. You're right. It is the same thing. And there's a gradient.

Yeah. There is. And I always say, you know, because I'm always saying that in the more I'm like

watching some of this, actually, I finished the morning show last night. Okay. And Steve Keralk, God, I love your ideas. We're really. So. And I'm, that's what, that's what mom said about it. You last night. She said, oh, my God, Monica, it changed your pants five times over how good Steve Keralk was. Yeah. Everyone's jealous of Steve Keralk because I taught about it all the time. He's the new gene cordel. Stay tuned for more armchair experts. If you dare.

Yeah. But anyways, Steve Keralk's so good. But I'm watching this whole thing. And I'm just like, yeah, it's horrible. These, these abuses of power and the chain of power. Yeah. And it's

really bad. And, and sure. So technically, he didn't rape anyone. I'm only trying to distinction

“between consensual sex and non consensual. I know, but I think the line is a little more blurry than”

people have traditionally given it. Yeah. I think you're probably right. Yeah. I'm seeing this because I'm listening to Catch and Kill Ronan's podcast, which is really good. And I'm reading his book as well, which is also really, really good. And yeah, when you start hearing the accounts from a lot of the people like Rose McGowan's account, all this, like, she's being touched out of nowhere, right? And so it's just like you're catching up. Your mind is trying to catch up to what's going on.

And then it's evaluating all the ramifications, you know, career and/or, otherwise. And so by the time you could even launch maybe a game plan, you're pretty deep into an assault. Yeah, exactly. And so I definitely underestimate how much of what could have appeared to look like consent. Exactly. Exactly. Which is another great chapter of Malcolm's book. It is the complexities of consent. He's like, number one, one of the biggest challenges is

how can you even educate people in college about consent when there's no consensus on what consent is. Is it nodding? Yes. Is it removing your own cloth? Like, yeah. He starts polling all these people on what thing constitutes consent. And there's just no consensus around that. Yeah. So it's like, you don't even really know what marching orders to give everyone. It's true. It's such a complicated topic. Oh, yeah. Okay, baby, baby, baby. What are we going to name our P-baby?

I think we should name him or her P-baby. Are you hungry, P-baby? She might not like that. Well, she won't know that she'll assume every work because like they're likely not. But also, she'll just assume that everyone was born in a toilet. Oh, that's nice for her. Yeah. Although a P-baby, you know, could have both parts. Oh, baby. Which will be cute. Yeah, a little dinger, a little duty. A little duty? A little duty? A hermaphrodite? Yeah, hermaphrodite.

“I learned in Antho. There's really only Ben, I think, one or two in history. Really?”

Yeah, because part of the definition is that both sex organs have to function. So quite often, like you'll see, there's all kinds of things that could happen in the womb during the development where something was interrupted. But then it came back online. So you can have women with a vagina that appears almost to have like a penis on top with the gloutorses, but it's not really, but, you know, there's been some cases that were filed as a raffrodite, but they're not.

They don't have functioning sex organs. So there's approximately 700 worldwide.

tissues, or one, or both gonads. Okay, but all right. So I think at least in my Antho class, they had to be functioning, not just present. Yeah, they called this true hermaphrodite. Oh, autism. Okay. All right. Well, look at this. I just claimed I love being my online chain. So thank you, Rob. It doesn't feel as fun when you do it as one. Sorry. What's on the music underneath? Please. So she said Claire. Now we're talking back to Claire.

“It's not PB. Okay. Okay. Back to Claire. So so how at some point you were required to be an artist?”

Oh, yeah. I didn't want to make her eat up her time explaining the history of that to me, but I was like, I didn't know that. I know I had no idea. It says the artist in resident zoning law was passed in 1971 to allow for the conversion of 200 commercial lofts to residential use on the condition that each law contained a certified artist. So Ho and Noho were essentially zoned for quote, joint living working spaces so that these properties would be off-limits to any

non-certified artists. For years, a lot was widely ignored as agencies like the Department of Buildings concentrated their efforts on matters, more pressing than carving out affordable spaces for artists to live. How does one become certified as an artist? I wonder. I know why aren't I certified? Should we explore this? Yeah, we should figure out the process. So I want to get some dirt, square foot, it's your Manhattan. Uh, yeah, so Ho, some was awesome. Yeah, I was living in New York.

I probably want to live there. You what? I'd live in the West Village. Or the West Village. Yeah, it's hard to pick. What are the other? All the good burgers are over there in the West Village. I'm hungry. I'm hungry. No, but Emily's is in Brooklyn. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's an Emily's in the West Village, but it's not ours. It's not ours. It's beautiful. It's the same Emily's and all the burgers are a little bit different in each location, so ours was Brooklyn.

We'll eat there again. Maybe we'll bring our pee baby there. Oh

“Traveling with her is going to be hard. I will set. Is Kristen going to be her grandma or her mom?”

Well, no, she won't be her mom because she's not in there. I guess she'd be a step mom. That doesn't feel super complimentary though, does it? Well, I don't know what to say. That's just the truth of the world. I know her pee is not in there. Okay, but I'm not convinced that she won't go pee in there before our babies mays. Well, if it can sing really well, we'll know. Yeah. Okay, so her mom had a daycare and that just reminded me, you know, my hot grandma had a daycare. Oh, yeah. God, what I have

loved if I'm one of the dads dropping the P.P. Baby off and then chatting up your grandma. And for

sure there were no P.P. Baby's there. But I would spend summers, you know, with them. And so I was always

around all these little kids and I was really jealous. You were. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, I did love your grandma's attention. Yeah, and then like when my mom would collect, sometimes I'd spend the whole summer, my mom would be there for like a week or two. Uh-huh. And then my mom would play with some of these kids and I did not like that. Yeah. No, and then my aunt would sometimes come in and also be nice, like read us both a story and I was like, no. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. It's my aunt. Yeah. Do you think that's from being an

only child for eight years? Yeah. Probably. I wanted to sibling so bad. Do you think you're going to have a strong streak of jealousy in your next relationship? Hmm. Maybe. Yeah. I hope not. Maybe, though. No. I mean, I'll try not to work on it. Well, I'm serious. I know I'm just curious. How do I know? I can't predict that. No, but you have like a hunch, maybe, based on the babies playing with grandma. Well, they're okay. Look, people evolve. Okay. I'm not. I do just think, though. When

you're born second, like you're just, your whole world view is you're got to share mom with this

kid. It's just, you're forced to practice sharing. Yeah. Yeah. And in defining love, not including the next exclusivity. Exactly. That's true. Yeah. And no, is no one's fault. If you're born, I would say my brother is much more like you, just because he too had five years without me. Yeah. That's true. I mean, I guess if I feel safe by the person, I probably won't feel jealous. Right. But I probably didn't feel safe with my mom. Oh, you're beautiful. I'm kidding. I feel like it's all brand for your

hot Gaga to have had a daycare. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, I'm going to all the stereotypical Indian

“immigrants stuff. Oh. And I think like engineering, medical, all these different things, dairy queen.”

No, oh. No. I never think, uh, childhood care. Not my grandma's age. Women were not doing that.

Oh, okay. Was it profitable? I don't know how much she charged. They made a good living. No, right. They saved a bunch of money. Oh, they were very frugal. They didn't spend any money. Like she made all my mom and sisters clothes. Uh-huh. But yeah, my grandfather was a professor. So yeah, they had money. Right. And they gave me all of it. Yeah. Just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding. Okay. So, oh, yes. So, she was talking about the guy in my so-called life who was in an oxymocomarchal.

So, Jared Leto, who is in the noxymocomarchal, but he was actually in the commercial you liked with Rebecca Gorg. He was her love interest. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yep. I can't think of any accolade that would more prove that you were the most beautiful couple in the world than to have a noxymocomarchal. I agree. Wow. The skin of angels. Oh, boy. Okay. Was Titanic the biggest movie of all time when it came out. It set the record for highest domestic grossing movie ever from its debut

in December 1997 to close in October 1998, making more than $650 million. Just domestically. Yeah. Okay. You said psychology is 150 years old. The late 19th century marked the start of psychology as a scientific enterprise. Psychology as a self-conscious field of experimental study

“began in 1879. Wow. I almost nailed it to the dot. Do you want to do exact math?”

So, 141 years. Wow. Great job. So, nine years off. Yeah. Really close. Hey Google. What is nine

divided by 141? The answer is approximately 0.06383. 0 points. Yes, I was less than 1% off.

By the way, there is nothing cuter than going in your chair. It makes me smile so much every time I walk and she has her own microphone right. She is really. I feel like she has a computer than the P-baby. Don't you think she's in love with that microphone because they look almost the same. Yeah. They're like the clearly of the same species. Yeah. That's nice. Wow. Okay. The DSM history that you give. Yeah. I can't find anything on that and then I checked with Wendy.

Oh, really? Yeah. She said it a lot of stuff about the DSM and you're right that it's like controversy. Correct. But she doesn't know anything about the thumb, although she was like,

“I kind of remember hearing something like that and I said, I think you may have heard it on our show.”

Oh, no, no, no. There's a, um, I could bring it up on YouTube right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've watched it three or four times. English man who tricked psychologists or do you see if it pops up? It doesn't pop up. I'm going to move on. It didn't pop up. So let's move on. Okay. So you'll find it and we'll put it on the yearly fact. Yeah. No, we'll talk about it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. So the percentage of bipolar in the U.S.

bipolar disorder is a neurobiological brain disorder that affects approximately 2.3 million Americans today or almost 1% of the population. Her estimate was a little higher.

And she said, I don't really know for sure. Right. Then you get, we always, we always get into this

human eye. It's always like, is that, um, people who have already acknowledged they are? Mm-hmm.

“Or it's hard to know in that figure. Is it a speculation? I think this is people who are diagnosed.”

Oh, okay. Yes. Yes. There's going to be a lot. Then you go, like, oh, there must be a ton of undygnosis. Sure. But there's no way to do any statistics on that. We just can't do it. We don't have the tech. Unfortunately, we do have a good piece of tech in here. We do. But we don't have all the tech. Hey, Google, how many P-Babies exist in the world? Oh, great question. Sorry. I can't help with that. Yeah. Well, eventually, she'll get to say one when, when ours is born. We'll get back to you, Google.

Okay. We'll tell you first if we have the first example of one.

Oh, all right. I love you. Bye. Love you.