Cohen Miles-Rath (on psychosis and recovery)

I'm Dan Sheppard. I'm joined by a crying lily petalist. Now there's like dust on my mind. You got to, you're having an allergic reaction right now. Well, we didn't finish something we started and that's upsetting for.

“Are there high winds in here that I don't know about?”

Maybe. Okay. This is one of the most interesting episodes we've ever had. Yes. Our guest today, Cohen Miles Wrath, is a mental health advocate in speaker. And he has a memoir out now called "Mending Reality and Advocates existential journey with mental health."

This is a first-hand account of someone who had a psychotic break. A schizophrenic episode that resulted in them trying to kill their father. Yes.

In the amount of bravery and honesty that Cohen brings to this is incredible.

It really is. It is very helpful to hear the first-hand account as opposed to the outside or as a view of it is very powerful. I agree. Please enjoy Cohen Miles Wrath.

So, good evening, New York. So, about a couple hours north of the city. So, good evening. What's good about this? So, with all, like, connected, what happened up there with the naming?

I think it's a lot of that, native Americans. Yeah. It isn't native Americans. Yeah.

“I guess we have some silly stuff up in Michigan, Macanol Island.”

Yeah, that one's wild. Sounds like, almost like a saltwater-taffed flavor. I'm going to get a D-tripe, okay. Anything about D-tripe Cohen? That's fine.

I'm going to D-tripe.

You have, I've never been to LA either.

It's the first time. Oh, well done. I wouldn't have said you're not missing much, but I will say, the city has really rebounded. Deep rebounded.

D-tripe, yeah. You remember my review from January? Yeah, really nice, it's gotten. Yeah. And you're up there with wife and baby.

We're not married. Parting for life. And new baby, and December, December 27th. Oh, she's adorable. Sweet little girl.

So, just months old. Yeah, four months last week. Oh, she loves it. Over the course of the last eight years, we've got to interview a lot of folks.

I didn't think I would ever get to talk to. And in particular, kind of a new wave of people being honest about some of these conditions that you only could learn about

“in an abnormal cyclist, like I did in college, right?”

And we'll get to what my current understanding of schizophrenia is. Based on 28-year-old. Yeah. Classite took, but increasingly people with these conditions are coming out and talking about the experience.

And I have to say it has an incredibly powerful effect

in that takes sociopathy. You're like, "Oh, sociopaths, write them off, stay away." And then we interview someone who's clinically diagnosed as sociopathic. And you're like, "Oh, yeah, you're just born that way." You're different from your peers.

And that's a rough situation. Exactly. And then we have someone with borderline personality. And it's like, "Oh, stay away from those people." And you're like, "No, those people too just got dealt a hand."

And so you will be the first person I think we've talked to who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Yeah, schizophrenia. Yeah, tell me how the difference is. Yes, the difference is schizophrenia.

Can have symptoms of schizophrenia, such as delusioned in hallucinations, but also bipolar or like, more type disorder, diagnosis, depression, or highs, and lows, right? So it's kind of a combination. But I will say that how I like to frame it is, I have a mild form,

or mild severity, because there is a spectrum to it. And obviously, in my story, there's a lot of other factors involved such as substance misuse and/or things. So my particular incident is a unique and rare one, but it's one more difficult situation to talk about.

But that's why I share my story. Yeah. For sure. Now, what I learned, again, 20 plus years ago now, 28 years ago, in an abnormal cyclist was schizophrenia.

As a genetic component, you can be seen in the genome. We know the low size for it. It can get passed down, and that it can be dormant unless a very stressful situation happens, and that there's a window of vulnerability between like,

I don't know, 16 and 25, where carriers of the gene can express it if something traumatic happens or stressful. And if nothing happens in that period, they may carry that gene, nothing may happen. Is that still kind of like, yeah, I will say that I'm not in the psychiatry field.

I do more of macro, mental health work. Yeah, I could expand on upon that. But that is my understanding of it. But there's a wide range of perspectives on these diagnoses, and definitely the science, I would say, still sticks with that.

OK, thank goodness. Have the stuff I've learned about this. I've only got to say it. I'm a college student. Every time I pick up any kind of journal, I'm like, oh, that wasn't right.

But let's start at the beginning and upstate New York, because as you already say, there's all kinds of variables in this stew that leads to senior year of college. So explain early childhood. Yes, so I grew up in Cohoctin, which is another native of America.

My parents were separated early on. About three or four years old.

Actually, the first memory that I have is in my dad's arms,

and I'm crying, including for my mom, that to take me, because they had separated early on. You know, I go back and forth between these two homes, one to go hoctin, and one's in Dan's role, about 10 minutes away. So not super far from each other.

But these two homes look very, very different. One side is my mom, she married someone else who had two children, so I grew up with five siblings in a small three-bedroom home. And on my dad's side, there's an only child. Yeah.

To go back and forth between these two homes were very different, very unique. Because you had an older sister who mom had before she married your dad. I'm the youngest. So my mom had three children before having me with my dad. Okay, so when they got divorced,

mom was leaving with four children. Yep. One of which was your dad's biological child, you. Yeah. And then, yeah, new step dad has two children.

Yep. Okay.

You're very generous in your book to say, look, this is my memory.

I remember wanting to stay with dad. Dad remembers that.

“Mom does not remember that, and doesn't think that anything happened to me.”

Oh, it's possible, right? Yeah, it's a bit of a chaotic mess, but that's okay, because both of them were very loving at the end of the day. I've read about it in my book, because when I think about mental health,

we have to look at the whole person and across the lifespan. And we know that adverse childhood experiences increases the likelihood of later mental health difficulties. Not every one, though. It all depends on the person.

You know, you could grow up in a perfect household and still face something difficult, of course. But, you know, I think that is an important part of my story. It's just to look back at that child. Yeah, and ACE scores as they mount the statistics get

pretty unavoidable. There's all these really staggering markers as they mount up, and you get above six or so ACEs. Yeah. So in the household, you went to there were two bedrooms for all the kids,

but there's a bedroom for three girls and a bedroom for three boys. Yeah. Mom's working her ass off. Yeah, she was working as a nurse. Or, actually, as a lunch lady at start,

and she became a nurse eventually. Still is one. Did they get along or now? That's a pretty question.

“I think they got along for the most part.”

Definitely when I got into high school, I remember them being very friendly with each other. Okay. And what was your step, Dad? Like, you said you don't really remember what he did for a living.

Yeah, he definitely brought some challenges into the home, but I will say that, actually, later on in my story, and I don't write about this, because I don't have the space in my book for it. But, you know, I actually live with him at my mom's, right after I get out of jail, and he's super, super supportive.

Yeah, and he continues to be, oh, wow. He continues to be shot, so I wish I could have included that nice little story awkward him in there, and didn't have the space for it. But that became weirdly an entry point for him

to have a relationship with you that was different. Yeah. So, obviously money was scarce. You guys were on welfare and had food stamps in the whole nine. Yeah.

I can only imagine, but what was it like when you had go visit Dad? Well, you know, my dad would take me everywhere. He'd take me down to Pennsylvania and just to get Philly Chee Stakes. We love to drive places. We love to go to Florida, Disneyland, so he took me everywhere.

I was his only child, so he was able to, even though he was fuel delivery driver, didn't make a whole lot of money, but since I was only his child, he was able to invest more into that type of food. And he lived, honestly, where he's living in a trailer in a rural area. Double-wide trailer, he definitely bought a little bit more structure to the home,

a little bit more cleanliness. I would say, so when I moved in with him in the sixth grade, a little bit of a privilege there to have a space where I could start to become who I was. My favorite parts of your book are how honest you are about telling on yourself, for your own less attractive qualities, of which I had so many growing up.

But just talk about this dynamic of having these five siblings who are living in one situation. And then you're kind of going off one day a week and every other weekend, and what's happening in that social structure from that. Eighth grade, those teenage years, like it's a really rough time overall, but I definitely formulated some judgments for my siblings,

for what they were doing. Is it feel a little better than them? Yes, yeah, yeah, and that can sometimes come with that privilege, and like no one was going to this new end in my mom's house. So I was doing that.

And you were kind of rubbing their nose in it at times.

“Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly, yeah, that's how it was.”

Even when they were smoking weed or something like that, and judge them for that, even though I would partake everyone along. So do we your dynamic? Yeah, your dad sounds like the sweetest dude. Oh yeah.

He's a single dad. He's trying his best. He wanted you from the jump.

You finally convinced Mom to let you come live with him at 11, I guess.

And he's taking you to church. Yeah, we go to church every once in a while. You know, he definitely wanted that to be a part of it, but also like I feel like he wasn't completely invested, because the church felt like a hypocrite to him to some sense.

Well, that's why I think he's even better. It's only going to be just super religious and you go up to me. It just seems like I'm going to try to do all the right stuff with this young boy. Yeah, that's so sweet. The values like taking care of each other.

That's where he really wanders to. And maybe I think that was more important than going to church.

And they wouldn't let you back in, you went to go pee. That was a break-in for you.

The church basically kicked me out.

And I was a little kid, right? Because you had to go to the bathroom. This is what he had told me. I don't really remember this. We were in service.

And then I went out the mean room to go to the bathroom. And when I tried to come back in, the priest was like, you know, we can't let you back in. Because they were in service already. And my dad was like, "What?"

And he was crazy. But also dad's rocking a fucking mullet. I was rocking a mullet, too. I mean, that thing was sexy. [LAUGHTER]

Dad's wearing leather jackets. He's got a hearing. He's a mullet. He's fucking driving fuel around. Yeah.

He's presenting as a rough customer. But then there's this completely sweet side. How did he get labeled by polar? And when did that diagnosis come about? So yeah, I didn't learn about that until after everything

had happened. And so many, many years later. So he had lost his brother early on in his life. 13, 14 years old.

My uncle, then I never met.

I can share this because he has shared this. He has had some suicidal thoughts after that.

“I think around that time he'd been diagnosed with a bipolar.”

But again, he didn't really believe in it. Or want to talk about it. Yeah, so he's receiving this term bipolar. It's certainly the first time he's ever heard it. Nowadays, everyone's quite familiar with that word.

But I'm sure when he heard it in the '80s, different time, he's like, no one had heard of bipolar. What does that mean? If he had not felt any discomfort about it and embraced it, and was open with you about it, who knows what

you're kind of like base awareness would have been? Yeah. It would have taken a very special person to be very open about it back then. Yeah, I think big time. Especially, I think being a man too.

Yeah. So once you get in with your father, walk me through the middle school in high school and Finn and kind of finding yourself then. I mean, my best friend Finn in sixth grade. He was wearing a two-poock shirt with playing on it.

We had a school project together. We just managed to revive and he becomes a brother to me during that time. And I kind of like lost my siblings, although there was still there, but you know, it's different home. I didn't really care about academics.

I didn't really care about studying. I was a slacker, hundred percent. But then I find like a talent in distance running. I was just fast.

“Eighth grade, I started to just win races.”

It also gives you an identity in a moment where you're really trying to figure out, like, oh, what is my thing? This dude's that and she's this. It's a nice little anchor, I think. Oh, yeah, I'm a runner.

People around school know that I'm the runner. Yeah, especially when you start winning, you gain some popularity. Like, I was made fun of it for my wallet. I was picked on. I did an eighth grade get rid of it.

I conformed to the teenage fashion standard and started to gain some popularity and that definitely brought the identity in me. At this point, you've started playing drums. You and Finn form a band. Fizzam five and Kyle B. Sexy men.

Oh, my, really five members? There was, and there was some drama, a band drama. You know, I went on the floor at some point. Okay, but it still works still. Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, if you drop a low, that you might have to start using different language. Yeah, you got it. Yeah, you got it. Yeah, you got it. Or get 50 or something.

Now, how good of a runner were you? They go ahead and brag. I'm going to give you full license to brag. Like, walk me through the progression to 12th grade.

I made my first state championship.

Oh, man, I haven't thought about this in forever. I must have been 10th grade maybe. I mean, cross country states for the first time, which is a big deal. In junior year, I get some records and then senior year, I actually qualify for nationals.

Then when does Dan the coach come into your life? Dan came in in my freshman year. Okay. And he definitely instilled this idea of being a 24 hour, seven days a week athlete. And because I showed some success, he really wanted to bring me out.

Because he was, you know, runner himself. He was very passionate. And now he still coaches at a SUNY Geneseo, actually. So he's, he's a role model for me. A huge protective factor, a huge role model.

And I get to the point where I qualify for this national race. I had finished second and second in state. Second in state. New York states. New York states.

Almost the state champion. There's always one. All that at this point, this is kind of also a pivotal because you start becoming open to the notion like, wow, I'm actually going to get to go to college for this. And initially, you were like, I got to go division one.

And you weren't getting any bites on those application. Yeah. And then Dan's convinces you, you know, fuck all that go D3, be a big fish and just win. Your times will speak for themselves.

So you've kind of adjusted, right? You've recalibrated by the time you go to state. I definitely had this big vision, right? This idea of being a D1 full scholarship. Because you know, money was also an issue.

No one in my family had graduated college. It wasn't on the radar of my siblings. My dad and I, we really didn't want that financial burden going back to ACES here. Running got me there. That completely shifted it.

And I now had a chance to talk to something I was really passionate about.

“But if you can't the only thing, I like definitely was like,”

I'm going to college for running. And that really sat this standard and this pressure on me from the start. Got to wonder what overlaps and what's driving what. But you're already smoking weed in middle school. You're also having these elevated experiences physically through running, right?

Mm-hmm. So you're touching this other realm of like very heightened experience. Kind of frequently.

And then going to nationals when I get to the big stage. And I have this just lights out best race of my life.

“So there's 20 entrances in your goals to hit 15, right?”

You know, that'll be a good showing. I was just happy to fit and be there. I didn't think I even belonged there. I did good in states, but not national level. So I was definitely just aiming for like, you know, top 15.

It's a big wish. But then I just have this lights out moment. And it was a combination of just this passion, this drive, and then that heightened experience. Because when that last lap came and I kicked two other runners asked,

it was a 63 second last lap in a 5k and you end up finishing six places.

This makes you all American. That's the cut off for all Americans. Right on the cuff. It'll add you're younger than everyone. You have a November birthday.

So you could have either been a young or a year older. Yep, November 21st is my birthday. So here's where we get a little bit of like all the different variables that it up to a life. It's like who knows, maybe if you have been a year older and you had done that in 11th grade,

that would have been like scholarship path. Right, a four-eyed potentially to a D1 completely altering the trajectory of Pablo, my running career. But you'd think this being six would still get you there. It was too late in the season.

Oh. Yeah, it was already declared. It was already declared.

“I think I got actually a really last minute offer from like a D2 college.”

But I was like, I don't even made my decision when to respect that. Okay, so you go to SUNY, which is in New York. I actually go to a cinch on Fisher for semester. Okay, yeah, which is up in Rochester, Pittsburgh area. I pretty much transfer after I semester there into SUNY Genesio.

How does that go? You know, I think I wanted to join Genesio because they had a better team. Their team often qualified for nationals on a regular basis. First of all, when you're not so great freshman year, I was the first freshman at the University of the Break 15 in minutes in the 5k.

I don't know, did you see this marathon that just happened broke two hours in the marathon? I can't even remember the name. Two hours. Oh my God. So they're running under five-minute miles the entire time.

Oh yeah, yeah, they've like four, 30 something. That is cool.

I couldn't run a five-minute mile for a billion dollars.

For also, can 10 or 20 or 20 miles. It could run six miles. Yeah, it could run a single morning. Oh, my God, that's insane. Wow. What is the vibe?

I have a stereotype for like symphony, musicians, rins, like, that's all they do.

“So what is the vibe for these kind of elite, long-distance runners?”

Is there a personality type? Yeah, I would say so. And I mean, at Geneseo, when I was there, you know, I got a mix. I had those who were the 24/7 athletes, right? The ones who were like, pure dedication, dry seasons, no drinking, no partying.

And then you also had people on the team who would like to be a part of that running culture atmosphere, but also, you know, one of the parties. Yeah, college. And you've fought back and forth between those two groups throughout your time. Pretty much, so when I was a freshman, you know, I had that stellar 5k time.

I had qualified for this Junior National Championships, which is for the fastest 19 in younger athletes.

So I'd qualified through my time, but then I got my first injury.

And that was the first time that I had experienced an injury. You've fractured a football on, is that what it was? I was a stress factor. I think of my shin. So you take like six weeks off, or maybe more than that, can't remember.

But you know, what do I do when I have that time off? I want to engage in partying. It's a lot of loose. This college, you want to have fun, like I had friends who did. So you partied and then you recovered, and then how long do you go

until your next injury? Pretty much in the next season of cross-country, I faced another injury. I showed some success a little bit, not even close to what I wanted to, but then I faced another injury. And this actually happens pretty much every year, where I would show that success.

Work really hard, train really hard, and then get injured. And then party happened every year. You'd regulate. You would be depressed, and you would be directionless, and your identity would be in threat, and then you would medicate.

Yeah, and you know, I wasn't shy about smoking weed or drinking. I liked that experience, that heightened type of experience, and that made me feel better. So there's one terrible race. Yeah, there's the big one, cross-country nationals.

You know, I had really shown some success early on in that season, and then once I hit nationals, my entire team has a bad race. And this is my last chance at cross-country. Also the day you turn into 21, is it on your 21st birthday, day before I turn 21, which is a big deal.

Cool, right? Have this whole race, I finished like, I think 100 something, which is back where I finished a freshman year. So that was very crushing. And you know, in between seasons, you took time off to rest and recover. Prepare for the next one, what did I do?

I did what I'd become used to doing. Probably a lot more, because now it's 21, I could go to bars. We bought those for the brush-right home from the... Yes, me. You started medicating the second of that race was over.

Pretty much. Okay, now we get into a nice, real degenerate level of use. You're coaching, but you have a fucking one hit or on you at all times. You're like stealing hits from the pipe while you're coaching. You're smoking when you wake up, all day long.

Smoking what weed? We eat it. Okay, okay.

When you're kind of running on it, and you're supposed to be coaching people, and you're stealing hits. Yeah, while they're doing my holy piece out in the airport field, I'm like smoking weed by my car. Yeah, it's getting to that point that it's isolated.

You're not at a marty, you're not with friends. There's nothing social going on. No, you are just like regulating, regulating, regulating, regulating. Every minute. And did you recognize it?

You recognize like this is a little... I know this is a great...

No, I always like loving it.

You traded the one high for another. Unfortunately, this one has a very predictable, law of diminishing returns. So it all works for a while. That's why we all become addicts.

If it didn't work, we wouldn't do that. Yeah, it's true. But that isn't necessarily even what takes its course. So when does your sense of reality start getting questionable, or what things first start happening?

So this is about a year after I basically quit running close to it, and I actually become really obsessed. Now that running was no longer in the picture, I was like, I need something else to do. And for some reason, I became obsessed with screenplay writing.

Movie writing. And it's mainly because I had this big idea for this movie. I was like, this is gonna be an instant hit. The movie happened to relate with the relationship with my coach Dan. Right, what you know?

And I would just spend hours in the library, starting screenplay literature, and movie writing. Later to the night, I'm kind of like not really cared about my school.

I could never make any more of my GPS drops.

So that was an early sign of mania, rapid thinking, grandiose ramp up. That right up is also kind of you fork, right? It is. You're like, I'm meth without mean on meth. Pretty much, I love that I was passionate about that.

But there's two and on healthy level. Right. I was gonna say this later, but I guess now I want to know about right now. There's all these elements of it.

“One of them, I think, that's unavoidable, is like,”

there is some bizarre level of narcissism that accompanies the manicness. You're important, you're gonna write the best screenplay ever. It's kind of fantastical thoughts of grandeur. Yeah, you think you're like, bigger than what you really are. Yeah, yeah.

And there's like this lovely dose of it. Everyone in college should think they can be super complicated. But there's just, like, I don't know what the line is. Yeah, because you don't actually get to be any of those people without some level of grandioseity.

You do have to believe, like, all of us that we came here and were like, well, out of these millions of people here, I guess it'll be me that rises to the top. We don't come on in front of the line because it worked out. But if it doesn't work out, yeah, it's a weird, fine line.

And even as I hear your story, it's everything's a spectrum, right? I can see my own life really writing a little bit of a similar way, but just not reaching those heights. Even my vision of being a professional runner, that was kind of an early flavor of that for me. Yeah, that was at least backed up by some really concrete evidence that that was

a possibility. There's still possibility, right?

Even though it's always, like, less than 1% ever really make it big.

“And you think even relating to, like, artwork, right?”

It's the same thing. So yeah, that was definitely going on and it was taking new forms. And how many months would you say that period was? A few months, two out of the fall. So just feeling really kind of energized with this new pursuit,

ignoring other things, and then what's kind of the next step? I like to share this specific example. You know, the movie inside out, of course you guys know about that, right? Fantastic movie. I'd saw this movie at some point during this time.

I think he had come out at some point. And I remember just sitting in this theater and I'm watching it and, you know, it's about these cartoon characters and the main characters had each color represents a certain emotion. And I'm watching this and I'm starting to think, are there little beings inside my head controlling me? Who's controlling me?

Wham I? And this started to be at some bizarre thinking, right, which I would say resembled an early sign of of psychosis. So that was starting to come into play. And colors take on some really heightened relevance for you, right?

Break down what's happening with colors at that point. I would get to the point where, as my symptoms kind of worsened throughout the fall semester and then into the spring semester, colors and patterns definitely started to capture my attention in a certain way. And this is not uncommon for skits-overlated illnesses. Red became a sign of danger, which, you know, is, but it was a bit different for me.

It's like when I see red, I'm literally in danger, and it could be just, you know, like a book or something like that. Wild that you put red on the cover of your book. That was my idea. Intentional? It was intentionally, because I really wanted to be forward with it. I wanted to just own it, and I wanted to really portray that,

I'm coping with that, right? Yeah. I'm comfortable with it. It's like if you see red, it's a sign that something bad is going to happen, or is it imminent danger?

“It's how do we justify an logic in psychosis states?”

It varied. One specific example is when I was driving, if I saw a red car on the highway, I'd have to stay behind it, because if I passed it, it might start following you or something.

D, a little.

“Everyone's a little more bitter than the other one.”

When did the hallucinations start? These are arbitrary definitions, like the emphasis on the colors is already some interesting form of an hallucination, but very low grade. And yeah, and it could also be considered delusion of reference, while you're interpreting something in your environment as a special meaning to you.

But yeah, there's a combination of hallucination and delusions going on simultaneously. I do want to take one second, because I thought it was a really great definition to know as we go forward. It was hallucinations are defined as internal generated voices or images, that your brain labels is coming from the outside world. If you can really think that through, it originated, it was your own concoction, but you seem to receive it from the outside world.

So this is how the breakdown of reality is occurring. You think you've generated, you think you're witnessing. Typically the five senses, right? Touch tactile hallucinations, smell as all the factory hallucinations, and then you're the visual and the auditory,

“and then was the last sense, taste. I've never even considered when I think of hallucinations,”

I only think of people hearing voices, auditory, or seeing things. I've never thought taste or

touch, did you experience any of those? I definitely did at some point. I experienced all of them. At various points, I think when it become a lot more severe, later on in my story, it was all things. Yeah. So I guess a couple of the touchstones on this route are like, you see glittering gold running through your veins. Yeah. At some point, it's a blister on my toe, but I'm thinking that I'm a god at that point. That was pretty later on and when I was at a

very severe level. So I thought it was gold. I thought my blood was gold. Yes. When you watch TV, you're seeing naked gods dance on TV. Yeah. Commercials, the visualness from our screens, even the phones was completely altered toward it was actually being on screen. Yeah. When you experience it, is the frontal lobe, pressure testing this in saying like, well, hold on. This can't be happening. Or is that voice gone? That was gone. That's gone.

But do you know enough to like, no not to tell anyone else? Being in that state, it was just,

“honestly, I could completely different person completely different identity. I felt actually lost my”

identity at some point where I was like, nothing. But you are a god at some point. I was a god. I was Jesus. I was, I think Lucifer at some point. Wow. But were you telling people that? I guess that's

my question. Do you tell a professor, which causes your first kind of red flags? This is good.

At some point, I mean, I want people to be saying it because keeping it under wraps is the scary part. Yeah. And I even had a conversation with my dad about my theory. There was a duge on narrative that was happening. And I was vocal, most certain things, but I also like, not, and I don't really know why. But that duge on narrative, if it related to what I was determined to do, which was right a sentence to discover the truth of the universe,

I was pretty vocal about that. And when his dad recounts this experience, it's so sweet. He's like, you know, he's gone to college. He's become really smart. I don't know. Maybe what he's saying is true. Right. You would think that would focus on the merit of this story or the logic of it. But I would imagine, in her personally, dad's just going, or I would be going, oh, my child's entered a world. I might not be able to join him. I mean, who knows what he's going

through when you're on that rant. You would think he'd be gone. That doesn't seem to make sense, but more he might be feeling like, oh, no, we're going to have a relationship with this new egghead version of my son, who knows what he's experiencing in that moment. Stay tuned for our share expert. If you dare, we are supported by all state.

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roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions and availability and insurance provided by all state North American insurance company, North Brook Illinois, roadside assistance plans provided by all state motor club incorporated in all state affiliate. In order of events, when do you think you see your professor proclaim to the class that you are a prophet? Yeah. This is my Spinks Master. So let's take a humanities, right? Philosophy,

studying human nature. And that's where this idea, you know, the idea of the screenplay transformed into a theory to explain everything. There's kind of stimuli that you've been doing for the first. Yeah. Yeah. Wild wild line of thinking. I feel like it would be a couple weeks into that

to talk to him about it. I always question like what is a hallucination, what to delusion. I never

really know unless I go back and talk, but basically I was given the task to create this one sentence summary. And then I did that. I achieved what I thought I achieved, probably couldn't wait to share that. As soon as I discovered it, it was a Thursday. I had humanities class and that's when I shared with the professor. And he called the police. I don't think he called the police. He connected me with someone at the university, a support person, because he'd noticed my bizarre

behavior in class. Because after I write the sentence, I fold up a piece of paper and I put it onto his desk and I'm late to class. I look a couple minutes because I was focused on this big idea. I sit down and I'm like drawing out my theory now in this bizarre cartoon that only makes sense to you. Yeah, piecing it together and he's watching this. He's definitely like something is up. I'm going to connect this student of mine with a support professional so that

when I got home that day there was an email from him saying like I should go see this person and it's someone he trusted. And at that point in that class he talked about how I was the prophet. But that was an auditory hallucination. So probably you thought oh great. He sent me me to the next rung of the ladder by which I'm going to disseminate this great truth of discovered. Yeah, you don't know you're walking into a situation where someone's going to

challenge your delusions. No, because he became a voice of sacred commands to some sense. So if he said go see this person, no question, no question in my mind because he had declared that I was the prophet. Yeah, it's obviously going to help you. Yeah. The result of this is you do get prescribed minutes and you're on a five day kind of hold. After that class the next day is when a police officer shows up at my door. I think it was a support person at the college who made that call and that's

when I get taken to the emergency room and then into my first psychiatric hospitalization. Do you

“remember what you thought was occurring while a police was taking you to a holding area?”

I did not think he was a police officer. I thought he was working for the professor. He actually

did an amazing job. I commend this officer. He kept the situation deesculated. He worked with me.

He didn't challenge me. I think he said something like the professor would want you to do this. All right. So he worked within my state of mind because he could clearly tell that I was very unwell and building that trust in that type of situation it's hard to do where he did him amazing job. Oh, can I as quickly? How much sleep do you think you're getting in this period? Oh, I was not sleeping for days. I was not eating. I was also just not taking care of that basic

physiological need. That was off the door. And smoking weed the whole time. It did fall off at some point, but I had been in the weeks leading up to this time. I was smoking regularly, yeah. Okay. So you get a diagnosis in that five days. They kind of go back and forth between diagnoses, right? And this is sometimes a challenge because they say, "Oh, maybe it's bipolar, maybe it's get so effective, maybe it's schizophrenia, maybe

cannabis, use disorder." But they write you a prescription for as I prexer.

“Respird all. As a prexie comes the second one. Is that an anti-psychotic?”

It's a anti-psychotic and I remember a lot from this hospital visit. But I remember before getting into the psychiatric unit, they had put me to sleep. They had injected me with like ambient at the emergency room, so I had finally slept for like hours, right? So when I woke up, I was like in this very stunned state, cobwebs were like in my mind. I couldn't even process what I had just gone through. Well, it alone explained it to them at the hospital.

How long was that chunk of time? Would you say that you were in the manic spell before you ended up in the holding? You know, it definitely was a progression. I would say probably at the highest point, maybe like a couple of days, maybe like a week. Okay. So you get out, dad is informed, and how do you and dad process what just happened? It's so interesting because like I kind of come back to my typical state. I'm like all of a sudden, come on again and just let it get back to

college class, back to my campus job. I mean, we have a meeting with like a psychiatrist at the place who says I'm a good role model for the other patients needs to because I was very social. I'm kind of a social person, social butterfly. A little bit. And I didn't want to take the medication. Any idea that I had someone in a psychiatric unit was like, what I saw in the movie's going up. People act in crazy, wild, one flow over the cookers nest. Yes. Yeah, you're like, that's not me.

That's not me. I did not want to be associated with them at all. So therefore, I also did not want the medication. I agreed to take it. So I get out of the hospital. Yeah, as soon as I left, I stopped taking it. My dad, he agreed as well. Any himself had decided to not take the medication that was offered to him with the bipolar

diagnosis and he'd kind of always had some sense of not wanting to partake in that level of

treatment. Right. But he didn't really see you in your manic state. He did in a way, but I don't think he knew what was going on. Right. So it's just kind of seeing the act bizarre and all this, but he not really understanding what I'm actually going through. Right. So, okay. So what's the timeline

“between then and your dad's kitchen? I think it was about a month in between those two times.”

Were you allowed to go back to college? Yes. Those five days happened during spring break. Very convenient, you type of life. What a coincidence. It was almost like it was a sign.

play a show at a bar with my friend Finn. I play a drums, he plays guitar and we stayed at one of his buddy's house. I remember waking up at that house and if somebody's and I brought my humanities homework with me, because I was going to do homework and I was studying Sigmund Freud's civilization of its discontent. And I remember sitting in the kitchen reading the book and he talks about this oceanic feeling. I don't know if you're familiar with the oceanic feeling

term. No. Freud is struggling with the concept because it talks about this feeling with the universe, this kind of like oceanic, like a high, right? In some sense. Connection, connection, spiritual harmony together or moving together is going to like just flow and Freud is struggling

“understanding the science behind that. But I read this concept. I'm like, that's what I was”

experiencing before the hospital and that was that feeling. So I remember as soon as I read about it, I'd stored my work in my backpack, the work that I had done in my manic, the sentence, there was a blue folder, actually, and where I kept all these paragraphs, all these writings, for some reason I just kept it with me, but I didn't ever open it until that point.

But then once I started reading it, that's when I was basically all back in someone shows up

in the kitchen in the morning that someone at the house, I don't know who it was. I later associate with Jesus because he had like this long hair and this flow and I was back in it at that moment. Yeah. When you break the window of the, so how the timeline went, when I regain my belief that I'm the prophet that I have to do this mission, I had my truth, I had the sentence and I want to share it with the world. You have a memorized? Yes, yes, I do. Is it triggering to say what is the

sentence? Yes, the sentence was eternal life occurs when you balance thinking and doing while feeling both. I don't know that it unlocks the truth to the universe, but it is a very nice sentence.

“I think it was my mind's way of trying to find some wellness and a comfort in the existential”

portion of my experience, which is interesting. Okay, so you leave the house. A couple of things go down, I actually end up due back in the hospital again before the incident before break in the window, I end up back in the hospital and I would consider myself being in crisis at this high severity of psychosis for about a week. And I had this idea, like now that I have my theory, I had to share it with the world. I had created a Facebook page to do that because social media had

become a big thing at the right exact time in my life. And I also thought that I had to marry my ex-girlfriends. I would show up with this church with the big red doors, thinking that my ex-girlfriend was just going to be there to marry me. And I went through often, right? Just believing that it was going to happen. So a couple of days go on and there's a Thursday night, I go there, I like tour clock in the morning. I like sneak out of the house. I sure think my dad did

wake up at that time because as soon as I got to the church, cop cars are there. He had like knew where I was going because I'd said something prior to this. So I get there and they tell me

back to the hospital, I go back to the emergency room and it's kind of similar to the first time

where I finally sleep and I wake up and I'm kind of in this hazy state. They probably gave you IV medication. Oh, maybe not. This one's a little fuzzier. There's a common knowledge that the more often you experience psychosis, the more it's harder to come back until processes. So time was a little bit more fuzzy for me. And you know, I read the medical record from this hospital visit. And it's so strange because I'm saying things like I'm saying to graduate.

I'm excited to go on to a professional job. I don't remember any of that. What I remember is saying something about color coordination. So it's almost like psychosis dominated my consciousness and yet a part of me was still there. Yeah, man. How do you unravel? Yeah, you have a memory of what was happening and there's a record of what's happening of course they don't match. There's the whole point of the psychosis. That's also what you were saying. You were seeming normal. So then

they're going to be like, okay, well, I guess he's not that bad. Let him out. Yeah, you're also in emergency room and you're trying to work through the highest probability explanation. It's like those dude hasn't slept. The dude's probably been on math or this dude's been on a had or like you're not going to jump to he has one of the rare conditions. Yeah. Not necessarily. I mean, or maybe they do, but I can see where you would also get easily missed diagnosed. I don't blame

anyone. I mean, I've showed those records to colleagues of mine. You're being a social worker. Now they're like, we would have let you go, too. Yeah. Right. Right. So I get out and I was pretty much

still in psychosis. Unlike the first hospital where I kind of avoided back to my typical self,

this time I did not. And it was only one night, too. I was there for one night. Could they have justified keeping me there just knowing how early that I was starting to experience the symptoms? Maybe. But I like to say that the system worked and getting me to a place where support was possible, but it found to give me that actual support when I was there. So I get out and I'm immediately

“back on my mission and my theory and three days later is when I tried to come by dad. I think”

people would love to know what in your mind could convince you. I must slash dad's throat. So,

on Sunday before that day, it happened on Monday. And the way that psychosis worked, it justifies

when things go wrong. Right. There's always a way to justify, at least that was my experience

where I can't speak to everyone. Even though I had gone to the church several times in my ex-girlfriend was never there because it was never going to marry me. I was like, oh, Sunday is the day. When that makes sense because it's gone today. Sure. Why would I get married on a Sunday? So I go there at like one o'clock in the morning. So again, still not sleeping. And I go through this very bizarre experience of like a self-sacrifice. I mean, there's some wild shit happening in my mind

and just in my mind. But basically, I don't get married. So now I'm lost. I'm starting to become lost. The things are not lining up in the way that they should be. Yes. And I'm starting to get really confused. Scared. Scared. And looking for signs in any way that wouldn't make sense to me. Yeah.

So that day on Monday, I was supposed to go to school, work. And I don't. I do go back to the church,

thinking once more, maybe she'll be there. She's not. So I go home. And on my way home is when I had this idea of back to colors that red was Satan. And I had to remove all the red things in my car. So I stopped at this restaurant called Steve's Place. There was this connection to my uncle and Stephen with this place for some reason. And there's also like a white and red building. But I break into this restaurant. I throw all my red stuff into this place. And I bleed red. A lot of

things happen. But just continue to foster this uncertainty and confusion about what I was supposed to do with my mission. Right. And then you go home and you're in there before dad or dad's there before a year. I'm there before my dad. You know, I'd stopped at this like old junkyard outside of town to dispose my car because I couldn't get the towel heads off. Is there a red? Yeah. So my grandma picks

“me up. She takes me there and she tells my dad. So my dad shows up. Why am I already there?”

How does your dad look to you? What is he representing to you? So being a fuel driver, you know, he often wore black pants and black shirt under his uniform. He's wearing these black clothes and also black was associated with evil and demons. Wow, we're literally all wearing black. Yeah, you're right. He was frustrated, right? Because I wasn't doing what I was supposed to do. I wasn't going to be scared. He's scared. He's so scared. He's so uncertain. He loves you so much. He's

taking you to all the places. Yeah. And here I am just almost throwing it away to some degree. So he's frustrated and justifiably so. It has these red cheeks, right? Because he's getting mad. He's mad. When I talk about intervening when someone's in crisis, right, de-escalation is one of the top things that is very key to helping someone in that type of state. And my dad did the opposite. Sure. Sure. But that wasn't the only sign. I was on my phone, again, going back to this

theory and there was several things that happened on the phone that brought me to that state of mind. But your convince your father has been taken over by Satan. And do you think you're going to

“liberate your father by killing him or you can make any miller remember that? There was two specific”

signs on my phone that led to me thinking that the devil was in my dad in combination with his black uniform and cheeks. It was a random Facebook message that literally said Satan. And this was a real message. Like I went back and I pulled this message from the Facebook profile and it was real. It was just some coincidence to message. Sometimes the strange shit just fucking happens. Yeah. So there was that message and then there was another image just on my Facebook feed that

was like someone smashing their hands on someone else's head and this angry ghost was flying out from this person. And there was some yellow and orange colors near that action. So I connected the dots while my psychosis connected the dots. I had to say the world with my theory. Now the devil's in the picture. The devil has to go. Right. You know my god. The devil was inside my dad. And you see a knife. You're a white handle. You know, had looked as holiness aspect to it.

So I was like, "That had to be the knife that I used." And I didn't want to kill my dad. And when I read the police records after this, I say this in my statement. I did not want to kill him. Yeah. I

wanted to save us. He'll say I want to kill Satan to save us. Yeah. So my intention was never to hurt

my dad. Yeah. But that's just how my psychosis narrative ended up. So you grab the knife and you go out, dad. I make some motion behind him. I'm also really troubled at this moment too because I'm like battling with this idea of killing him. This is like this can't be the next step. Like I'm really challenged by this. Yeah. This is the biblical moment where the good guy has to kill his son

“to prove his love to God. It's like that test. Basically. Yes. That's how it felt. Yeah. It's like”

this is the ultimate test. I always pace it back and forth saying this can't be the next step. This can't be the next step. You know, have the knife at some point, you know, the knife gets out of my hand. I start finding something else. My dad was remodeling at the time, so there was drills and

It tells about the physical struggle that happens. You know, what about the same height? You

might be a little shorter than me now, but he was definitely bigger, stronger, which bonds heavier being a laborer for all his life. I was still an athletic kid, but he's stronger. Any day, dad. He does. He does have dad's strength. Now you have dad's strength. Yeah, I do. Yeah. That dad dodged, you know.

“Yes, we start to fight and he fights me off. I think he punches me at some point. At some point,”

we tumble onto the ground in that he did the moment. I just for some reason, bit his ear as like a reaction to like losing the battle a bit. His ear is a little buffed. The piece of his ear a little buffed at the bottom. His face has this heart. He and Holyfield have a lot to talk about. And then, you know, at some point, I have to play that as throw. I keep coming at him. I'm not even me. It's life or death. And for the whole universe. Yeah. So at some point, I have to play that as throw

and he's blocking it with his thumb. And at some point, he's just like, I got to get out of here and he does any bolts. He's saying it gets cut pretty bad. He then runs out of the house. You know, he runs out of the house. And I had this moment of like, what the fuck did I just do? You did have a little snap of clarity and I was like, oh, he did I actually just do that. And I run out of the house. I'm looking for him because I'm like, sorry to that. I'm sorry. And I go out

by our dog cage to look at my dog. He was a cute little husky that we grew up with. And that's when the police arrived. Also grandma was here during this whole thing. Grandma was there the whole time. And actually at some point, when she was trying to stop me from completing my mission, I had a thought that I had to kill her. She's wearing a green shirt. She's wearing a green shirt. Oh. Okay. And that's good. Green was good. Yeah. Yeah. This is a total

digression, but the brain is so fucking fascinating. It's just so endlessly fascinating. Because I have had a couple of those moments of complete clarity when clarity should be completely impossible. Well, like my level of a neibration, right? Yeah. Or like I got in this situation where I tried to mug me and I was on top of him in the street in Santa Monica three in the morning. There's nowhere to break it up. I'm afraid he's got a gun. I'm banging his head in the ground. And I was hammered.

And I all of a sudden like a bolt of light. He was like, oh, you're killing someone. This is

“that thing that happens. And you're doing it. And you need to stand up and leave. But I don't know”

where that bolt came from. Yeah. Like super object clarity of like, oh, this is happening. Get away from this. It's wild. And it happened again right after this moment. Because when I got out to the dog cage, police officers were pointing their guns at me. They were ready to arrest me. They're like raise your hands. Raise your hands. Because that's what they do. And I did. Right? Instead of running. Because they were in black instead of bolting. I had this

moment of raise my hands. Get them up. Yeah. Thankfully, I did because I think if I did and if I ran, I'd pop me up here. Yeah. Or if you're still holding the knife. There's 80 ways this could have gotten worse and worse and worse. It's really a miracle. A terrible miracle that brought you kind of terrible miracle that keeps you from. Yeah. In your very good about at the beginning of the book listing like there's so many people that didn't go that way. There are in the US 300 parents

a year are killed by their kids. It's 2% of all homicides. Really? I would never have guessed that.

“And you go into it. And that's how I want to end this is like all the things we shouldn't know”

and how we help deal with all this. But it makes so much sense because your interaction with your family is going to be the most interaction you have. Yeah. You know, there's all these different reasons why in a bizarre way it's kind of predictable. Anyways, you are arrested and you're put in jail to tell me what happens after that. Yeah. So I think I'm on my way to hell. The mission continues basically, but I'm going to hell. I filed the mission. There's glimmers of hope in jail where I think

I can escape. I think I can fight saying it. And I'm at that point, I'm just experiencing so many hallucinations and delusions just for about a week into jail solitary confinement. At some point, I think I'm on the outside of the universe and I see the universe on the floor. I wouldn't eat because the food smelled like dead bodies. Here comes the goose story and the factory out delusions. And I think time had a big factor in me coming back. Also, like I remember, one of the

professional officers giving me a book about an architect can never remember what the name of the book

was. I would love to find it again. I remember starting to read that book in solitary confinement. And I like to think that it started to really ground my thoughts and just maybe help me come back to realize where I was. And when do they start medication on you? So we take a while to get prescribed. You know, the psychiatrist there had checked in on me, often throughout that week. And basically, once they realized that I was back to myself, I could vocalize that I'm in jail.

Yeah. Right. Because I could ask me a question, do you know where you are? Do you know where you are?

he's coming back. They moved me to a general population area. So I could get out of my cell,

interact with the other people in jail. And that's when I started to take the medication. And at that point, I had a huge cognitive shift in my mind because I was like rock bottom. I was like, holy fuck, I'm going to do my hardest to understand what happened because I don't ever want to happen again. Yeah. My full mission now in life has to be preventing that from occurring again. Okay. At this point, there's a potential of probably 10 years in prison on the table.

Two felonies. Yeah. One for breaking that window, a criminal mischief. And the other one was an assault against my dad. So it fell on you with my dad. The guy would have fortunately. Because your father wouldn't press charges, right? My father didn't want to press charges. I feel like he felt like he was pushed to do that. He writes me a letter without his name because we had an order protection too. He still obviously going through his own trauma, challenge, but he's still more than

willing to help me get out of jail. It's really interesting, like, had I heard this story before I had kids that have won opinion. And then hearing the story having kids, all of it makes so much sense to me. Like, yeah, either of my daughters could try to kill me. And 100% the next day, I would be there to help them get out. I just couldn't ever click into, let's throw them away. It would be impossible. And all I would feel is sadness and pain in her for them, not really anger and defensiveness. You know?

“Yeah, that's how my dad fell. I'm conditional love. He really stuck by my side. And I thought at that”

time, like he was never going to talk to me again, I was terrified. You've come out of this thing,

you know, vulnerable you are now. You know, it's anyone who's got a disease that is terminal that comes in a remission. So he just live with this thing hovering over your head. So it's like you're dealing with that reality. But then even, I think probably worse than I was like, I tried to kill this man. I love more than anything. He's been nothing but loving to me if I ruined that forever. That piece to me feels as scary as the other thing that's looming. Yeah, and honestly, I'd gotten so a

lotters from my family and friends. That first day I came back and into the general population saw. I had just remembered reading all through these letters. I'm bawling because I'm just like, there's still hope here. I was not feeling very hopeful, but those letters made the biggest difference. Yeah, well, it's so important in love people. I know. It should tell that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get out in 30 days. Yeah, which is amazing in it of itself because it didn't have to.

The psychiatrist and I'm seeing it's amazing. She's balancing this firmness with me and like, kid, you're in the fucking deep water here, but also a very empathic and caring nature because you really understood seeing me in the cell. Yeah, this isn't your fault, but it is your fucking responsibility. Yes. That just brought me to a point where I was like, I could do this and I could out of jail after 30 days and I'm going to just start a new loser in the parking lot.

So when I go to the courthouse, you know, I'm chained up. I'm in a green uniform. I stand before the judge and I agree to everything, whatever you said. In that moment, I was just like, I don't even

“remember what he was saying for the most part, but I'm not sure if I'm leaving. I don't know. I”

am just lost at some point. An officer comes by and chains me and lets me out the door and it's a sunny day in Mark's small little town and there's my dad, just standing by the car. Oh, I'm so mad. Yeah, they should've been like, yeah, and the story has so many miracles, beautiful things mixed with tragedy. I see the scar on his ear and I'm just like, - Oh my god.

- Oh my god. - Oh my god. - Oh my god. - Oh my god. - Oh my god.

- Oh my god. - Oh my god. - Oh my god. - Oh my god. - Oh my god.

- Wow, powerful. - No, here's a piece of this story that I didn't see coming. And I have to say makes me nervous 'cause I know some people who have a lot of things that they won't take their medication

and it drives me insane. So you decided wein off the medication. - I was very hesitant on doing that.

So basically my conditional discharge was

I had to see substance use the group therapy, substance use counselor nurse practitioner, mental health counselor, four things every week. I didn't even need to be told to do that. I was like all about it.

I was like I'm gonna take full advantage of all these resources in my community. And it was actually my nurse practitioner. I'm taking 10 milligrams of cypressa. They started me in that in jail.

So I'm continuing to take that. You know, he has at some point idea to potentially wean me off.

“- Can I ask you is it miserable being on that medication?”

- Yeah, so when I was taking it, it boost my creative thoughts. It made me feel sedated all the time, like struggling to think and foggy, like definitely. And I don't think I'm gonna want to be on medication.

we're constantly looking at everyone going like, okay, you're foggy versus the, like we're a little bit like, you know, fuck you. I've been being dead honest, and probably a lot of people are listening.

They'll feel his way. It's like, yeah, tough shit versus, you know. So I don't know. I just wanna deal with that.

“I think a lot of people will be curious about that.”

- Yeah, and I still get that, but how I view medication and how I learned through that in my therapy, was that it's a very ineffective tool to kind of be in a place where,

to me, what was more important to my recovery was the therapy, talking through it, learning the skills, learning about the symptoms, having these terms, having this knowledge and practicing with it. I was hesitant to go off medication,

but I would have not done that without a professional's guidance. That is very, very important. So since he was willing to work in that space, all my treatment providers knew that.

I was tapering starting to taper off. - Yeah, right. - And is it fair to say, in this process, you're also learning, these actually don't come out of nowhere.

Sleep is an enormous piece that's integrated in this. You're diet, using weed. You're learning like, oh, there are a lot of things lead up to this. Is that fair to say?

- Yeah, and I would use the eight dimensions of wellness. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this. - No, we're talking about this, but it's spiritual wellness intellectual wellness, physical wellness, emotional wellness, oh man.

- There's a lot of things. - It's a lot. - It's a lot. - It's a lot. - But I remember, you have the mental wellness

to diagnosis the DSM5, which gives you this language to help you understand these symptoms. That's one part of it. And then you just have general mental health in wellness where you're working on making sure

that you feel like you're financially well, you're physically well, and that you kind of feel good in no spaces as well, because when you start to lose some of those things, they add stress, they add pressure. - Yeah, stress was the one I left out, that's huge.

- Yeah, stress was a big trigger. When I'm under high pressure and stress is, when I start to go a few on-wall. - Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. (upbeat music)

- So you start applying all these things, and then you get kind of a list of things to look out for. Like, can you be objectively good at recognizing when it's slowly starting, and what's been here? 'Cause that was 10 years ago, those situation when they're done.

- Yep, yeah, from leaving and a year afterwards, titrating off of the medication and having a game plan,

“what's been the ride over those nine years with that approach?”

- Recovery is hard work. It's not easy.

It's never an injustice of change, internal change,

and constant diligence. - NAA, we say you get a daily reprieve. - I actually have this tattoo on my arm, right? It's the mental health ribbon, and it's my daily reminder, to always think about my mental health and why I'm at.

And that's how I approach it, right? The skills that I was learning in therapy, I continued to go on to practice them, and when I got to grad school. - You had been kicked out of your school, we should say yes.

- Oh, yes. - Completely kicked out of your school, expelled. - And are you the nervous to start that process again? Like, will that be another trigger? Well, I get stressed, you know, returning.

I don't know how one evaluates which things are going to be too much. - I mean, yeah, I had to go before the college and testify. And I remember being actually triggered in the moment

because it's a corporate feel. People in black suits and microphones on the table and I have to sit here and tell my stories or I get back into college.

And finally, finish my undergrad degree, right?

- Yeah. - And my dad has to do it with me, and he does it though. And he breaks down, I get back in. It was triggering in the moment it was definitely not easy, but I'd be doing the work to do what I had to do

to get my life back on track. - It's funny to know how your life makes sense in reflection only, but, you know, this whole running history, this is where that comes in a place. Like, you have lots of experience with extreme dedication

and routineized behavior. This isn't your first go with...

“- You know how to be disciplined if you're going to be?”

- Yeah, yeah. That I should be to my athletic identity that drive that character to just be dedicated to something pushed through pain, pushed through discomfort. - Yeah, and that definitely helped me get on that.

- So you end up, yeah, you get a masters, you become a social worker, have you had any periods where you've had a return to the medication? - In my graduate school, the first sign of mental health challenge were that I immediately do and go see your therapist.

I always kept the medication to our open.

It's a very important tool. I never would ever push against that. But my first step was at the see the therapist. Do what I loved, which was to talk about what I was going through. So that's what I did in grad school

when I started to be really challenged. Because there's a lot of stress and pressure I had an on campus job, like masters in social. We can be demanding a lot of classes. I don't go back on medication, but there is.

When I get to ready to graduate with my masters to agree, I'm struggling to find a job. And I had like a dozen interviews, probably, and I just could not get a job. Part of me always felt it was like these news articles.

but after the incident, my name was

in the headlines. This man who bit off his dad's year crazy person. There were seven articles. So I'm really struggling with his job search. I think it's that.

I think it's multiple things. And there was a time I had actually had to move back home to my dad's house after graduating. And I was really defeated because I had done all this work.

“And financial wellness was a very important part.”

I needed a job. Yeah. So it was like very stressed out. And I got to another crisis point at this moment to where I was willing to take myself to the hospital.

OK, good. Of course, the paradox of it all is like, you need your mind to evaluate whether you're losing your mind. It's very tenuous. Yeah.

And I was willing to go back on medication when I had kind of got to the point where-- it's actually a very touching story. So I actually had a job interview where I went to grad school. It was just seven hour drive from my home.

And I'd got the hint that my interview didn't go so well. And this was after a 12-failed interview. So I was like, I'm not going to get this job. And I'm driving home on this long drive. It's late at night.

And I'm starting to fester on everything. I'm having wrapped thoughts about everything that was going wrong in every single interview. Just bam, bam, bam, bam. I get home, it's late at night.

I say, good night to my dad. I don't want to be vulnerable with him. I was not in the headspace to open up about what I was going through. I was like, I'm going to go straight to bed. And I go into my bedroom and I can't sleep.

Yeah, you're room and a boy. Huminating.

“And I like three o'clock in the morning.”

I look at my alarm clock and I'm just like, oh, shit. I should be sleeping right now. This is not good. And then there's a light coming through my window from my neighbors and it's a bit too symmetrical.

And I'm just like, I'm really, really unwell. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's when I was like, I want to go to the hospital. Thank you.

Thank you. Oh, yeah. I thought about waking up my dad. I thought about calling my friend Finn. But that shaman stigma.

I had also worked on my dad late at night before during all of this. Yeah. So I was like, I feel like he's going to be afraid. And it's not going to go well. So I did what I knew I could do, which was mindful

of this meditation. I'd practice this right over the years. This is three or so years after the incident at this point. So I've gone through this process. And I was aware of these symptoms.

Right? At some point, I may have not been able to be aware of it. But I was aware of it. And I was able to catch it in the moment. And I did what I knew what I could do.

I put on my headphones. I put on an instrumental playlist. And I meditated and I put my hands and my chest. Because you were dysregulated, extremely dysregulated. And there's all kinds of tools that get regulated.

And this is one of them. And I fall asleep for a couple hours. And then I wake up at like 6 a.m. And I'm still feeling like this feeling. I can't really do something.

So I go to a living room and I wait for my dad to wake up. And I'm thinking about how I want to purchase with my dad because I want to tell him. And this is, keep in mind, the same space where everything has to go.

So he sits down.

And before he turns on the TV, he always did that.

I was like, dad, I need to tell you something. And I said, I'm very unwell. I do not feel good. Yeah, good for you. Yeah.

And it was clear to me, in my dad's response, that he'd done some work with his mental health as well. Because he kept the space de-escalated. He worked with me. He helped me find a resource that actually happened to be

right in my community where I could access crisis intervention there, which I would compare like urgent care, right? I didn't have to go to the hospital, but I could get a therapy appointment with a crisis therapist in a couple hours.

So I go there and turns out I didn't have to go to the hospital. I just had to make mental health my priority again. Basically, his instruction was to just focus on your day-to-day chores, like your sleep, chores, go for a run if you can, do that for a couple weeks.

Forget about the job. Because that was the big stressor. Yeah. I'm always astounded by how much overlap there is with all these things. They seem so different.

But like, this is the same roadmap for addiction, right? Which is like, they'll be all these guys. They'll be like, well, I can't go to meetings. I have X, Y, or Z, or I got my kids this. And I have this work thing.

And it's like, yeah, but you'll have none of that shit permanently. If you don't make this number one priority. That stuff is only a result of you keeping this number one priority in check.

“Because the other stuff you think you need to miss it for, you'll lose.”

Yeah. It's hard to get us to accept that. That's hard to accept. Is it so hard? Wow.

So, and just doing that, the re-focusing fuck the job, we're not getting anything if we don't get right. Yeah, it was a fight for you. Because you were able to recognize like, it's happening. And I got to get on the right track.

Still kept a medication door open there, right?

I was like, if one of the first things I actually said to the Chris therapist,

like, I'm going to go back on meds. Yeah, something. He helped back. He's like, let's try this first. Wow.

I said to seem weekly. He was monitoring me when we were working together. And I didn't have to go back on meds. And then a few weeks later, I had another job interview. Or I not a few weeks.

There was probably a couple months at this point. I had another job interview, and then I got the job. No, wow. And then you worked for the New York State Mental Health. Well, I was just a mental health.

Oh, he had a mental health. So, I do suicide prevention. I work more in like a system, you know, statewide approach to designing programming, advocacy.

I like to think in systems.

But, you know, being in the office mental health, they have an office from peer specialists, which is people who have experienced who can help provide another valued support system for someone, aside from your traditional clinical support. Yeah, like a sponsor in some way. Yeah, there's many spaces to go here.

And I'm just happy to be a professional in this space. Yeah. And now you also do public speaking in your huge advocate to spread awareness. So, what is your approach?

“I think you're great, and you should list some of them.”

As much as you focus on like some of the ACEs in childhood, you're very readily listing all the many lucky things that were happening in your life. At the first time I shared my story, I wrote a blog post for the National Lines of Mental Oneness. I actually mainly did that because it was news articles, because I wanted to be gain who I was running. And that kind of turned into like, when I did that,

I got all these responses from people that were like, wow, thank you for sharing your story. So, like, I didn't go in that direct service work, but I was starting to experiencing the impact of being vulnerable in the public space. And that kind of started to fuel this drive for me to share my story in much greater depth. And that's kind of how I ended up with, you know, the book.

Well, and you reached out to a guy who had written a book about his brother killing their mother. Vince Granada, incredible man, when I reached out to him, I was at some draft in my book. And when I read his book, because it had just come out, I just related so much to his story.

Although, he brings a very different brother perspective. But I was like, I got a weak shot to him, and I did, and I did not expect a response.

You know, cold calls, you never get responses that often.

But he responded, and we connected, we met, and we just had this great bond. And they ended up writing a beautiful forward, you know. He became another role model for me.

“And when I think throughout my story, my dad has always been consistent.”

But Coach Dan was a role model. The psychiatrist in jail was a role model. The person who's my supervisor, and my master's degree, my job on campus was a role model. And Vince became my next role model. In your best friend.

And my best friend. Yes. And I'll add the other siblings that left in the other houses with less resources, some end up in jail. They had a rough road. A lot of your siblings, yeah.

Yeah, they did. I mean, I wasn't going to a lot of details. Sure, sure about their experience. But there's been a history of meant to own this addiction. I've gotten to a position where I've

had a lot of success. And I think there's a great privilege in my story that I had my dad in running. That helps my trajectory as compared to my siblings. Not every kid finds hope, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Do we have any sense of what percentage of the populations wrestling with this? One and five experienced mental illness at some point in their life. I don't know the exact percentage of psychosis. I think it's a smaller percentage, right?

It's usually not common, it's pretty uncommon. And then going towards the violent aspects, right? 'Cause that's a unique part to my story. Four percent, I think, is the number that says that kind of results. And so on.

Yeah, only four percent of people with delusions and psychosis will be violent. But they tend to get the most attention, right? Yeah. So I don't think we will need to be overly alarmed about that aspect. Again, it's a very small percentage.

But for the people who are listening, who have some or not. Because yes, as rare as it is, I know two people, they haven't gotten violent. But they've left for months and done stuff. You're like, "What is happening?" Yeah.

And so all the people in this fear, if you think people are going to do with addiction, no one knows what to do in the medication issue and all that. So like, what do you advise people who might have a loved one in the situation? What's the best approach? I get this question when I do this for it.

It's all this for it. You know, presentations, I get a lot of parents reach out to me.

And it's always the most difficult situations.

And I'm just like, I don't have an easy answer. Well, de-escalation right there. That's a good thing to have heard. Yeah. And maybe even indulging the delusions while we get you to the safe place.

Like, these are kind of simple things that I think maybe are helpful to know. Definitely, and I think I try to be that role model. That source of inspiration is a peer with lived experience who, you know, if someone is going through this and they hear my story or someone else's successful story, maybe they'll potentially computer realization that they need help.

It's a treatable condition. I find the system to be very annoying in that so much of the mental health space is voluntary.

“Like, you have to check yourself into places unless, unless something has escalated to this”

very scary thing, it's frustrating because as we were just saying, your brain has to tell you that you're in trouble and when you're deep in the psychosis, it's not going to do that. Then they're not going to check themselves in and I just hate that. The powerlessness of it. Exactly.

Both my hospitalizations were involuntary, I didn't want to go there. Yeah. I immediately resented that. It created this wall that I was just like, "Fuck, no."

per hour because I believe the universe protected me and can't do that.

Yeah. Like, if a police car chased me, I don't know what would have happened. My story could have been very different and this was before the incident. The violent aspect was only one result but many other things could have happened before that.

“It's something I think we're still figuring out.”

Yeah. I don't approach this because it's super complex. Yeah, you also have to protect individuals against the state from Willie Millie, being able to take people, you know, there's a lot of things you're weighing against one another. When police are involved, it does seem like it gets taken more seriously.

Which is something that maybe consider. And I think if you look at the history of psychiatry and this were like lobotomies, we're a thing, you know, I'm going back to the cool crew's nest. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't have a great history in this space.

I think we made a lot of progress in the community mental health space. I just think it's such a long-term game to some degree to where we've gotten into a place where people can be open with the most severe instances and get the help that they need. And not being, yeah, extreme-negated from society is huge. Again, you're like one of the first alcoholics to be in public saying,

"Yeah, I'm a recovering alcoholic." No one did that in the '50s. And now, no one has a problem doing that. And I would hope that's exactly where we're trending with this. And the sociopathy and all of it.

All of it, yeah. What are rebundancy? You've been with a woman now for three or four years? Yeah. You had to tell her, you're on a date and you're like,

"I gotta get out in front of this, she's gonna google me."

Yep, I never truly felt that my ability to overcome the trauma and find my resilience

weighs really valued. Right? It was always the opposite where people would hear my story and they'd be like, "Get away." Right, she's scared of you. Yeah, I'm just scared.

That has, and still continues to be, actually, looming shadow. Otherwise, I've found a healthy way of doing it. And finding a single another guy. I wanted to find someone who I could live with. And grow family with.

So I had to really consider how to approach that when I was on the dating scene. So I chose a social worker. [laughter] You know, people who I know trend high empathetic with. Yeah, it's an understanding.

I understand the space. It's a risk assessment. [laughter] It's a social worker. She might be open.

You know, I'm very strategic with how I interjected.

My past left the door open. She had the choice. It was our third date. You know, if it stopped, it stopped. Right.

We'll move on. Yeah. But she was open, and she'd continue seeing me. But people in her life discourage that she had the choice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

I also think, again, another overlap with being an addict.

“Like, you have to tell people, and what you're signing up for is like,”

people monitor you more. Mm-hmm. And that is what it is. You deserve it. It's how it's got to be.

But also, no one loves being monitored. You know, like, no one loves that sense of people are like, trying to evaluate all of them, like, just studying you. That's a kind of a little bit of an uncomfortable feeling. And I guess it's just the deal.

That's what it is. But it's not the best feeling, right? It's not. And I definitely, with people who don't really have an open conversation with me about my past, I sense that all a time.

Right. But what we've created in our relationship is that it's an open door. And it's not just about me, right? She has struggles with anxiety. She has it on the other side.

Yeah, everyone has stuff. It's the family and interpersonal culture there that we both happen to be good talkers in the sense of soul for work, too. So that helps just having that background. But like, we've created a space where, like, if I'm going through another challenge,

I'll be open with her about it. If I'm going through something, and I'm not really aware of it, she's in touch with the signs. Yeah.

“And would know what to do to step in and give me the help that I needed, right?”

Your cup-high-letting cup-high-letting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not being in a press, your cup-high-letting. Yeah. And if you're understanding of yourself, then hopefully you are open to being

cup-high-letting, you're open. Yeah, and you have to be. I was sharing in the evening like, it's not great. It's like, I just do a normal thing someone else would do. And almost like, wait, and I want, you know,

like, it's just that feeling of everyone, no? It is kind of like the thing we were talking about earlier. Well, sorry, you have to be foggy. Yeah, the rest of us don't. Sorry.

But I was someone else I'd have them, but you know me, and as the person that is in the situation, sometimes it's just like, yeah, I understand. You know, hey, I want autonomy, too. This might not even be fair to do, but I got to say, I've watched a few different docs on the psychosis.

And there is this really common pattern where people think they're the Messiah. There's good an evil, it's Satan, and I'm going to be very exact with my language. I love religion for people who benefit their life. But I will say, that is my issue with the whole thing. This notion of evil.

So you somehow have picked up along the way, even though you guys weren't like crazy religious,

this really, I think, constant concept of evil in Satan and God in perfection and good and bad. And I think it's so fucking dangerous, and it's in there. And if you feel like you're fighting to defeat Satan, you're capable of anything, I just wonder what psychosis looks like on an alternate planet where those concepts don't even exist. Yeah, it is so fascinating that there's that common thread with psychosis.

And even the big idea of science, too, that was a part of my story with E equals I'm see squared being associated with my sentence and all that, these big, existential ideas. And I don't think this really probably talked enough about the framework of psychosis. And that's something I really tried to make a part of my book.

It's called Mending Reality, because when you break from reality, when you have this brick,

you're in this other world, this other space.

“And it is kind of like you're trying to know, I think that's why there's that thread,”

because you're trying to find some sense of greater understanding. And it's the simple story. Yeah, it's such a simple clean story. There's good, there's evil. There's Satan, there's God.

Yeah. It's very grounding and it's very comforting. And you see it, you see the churches, I think that's why it becomes kind of a part of it. And you're right. I read this great book called Maniac, or there's no one everything we know ceases to exist. There's a lot of these physicists who have come up these things in psychotic states and psychosis states.

One in particular, this guy who has this crazy allergy during spring, he gets all these hives, he has to go to a little island in Germany, he's got nurse caring for him. He loses his mind for six days and in that time, he writes down all these matrixes. And when he comes out of them, he doesn't understand them, he doesn't know where they came from, and they are the math that proves quantum physics.

And it's like, what is that?

“Yeah, that's fascinating. How do we like have the psychosis we want?”

Yeah, I would listen to your podcast with Michael Poland talking about utilizing mushrooms and these psychoactive things to kind of get in that space where we're experiencing some form of psychosis. Right, I agree, right, I'll turn it reality to get into a space where you could think like that. Well, I was thinking so much as I was reading your descriptions of these things. I'm like, oh, yeah, I've been there, but when I've been on lots of psychedelics,

the voice is still present that goes, this is just the shrimps. This is just the acid. And then without that voice, that's the only difference. Yeah, right, yeah, I could go like, oh, this is that and it'll end. Yeah. Well, it's a beautifully written book, you're very good writer. I'm so glad you came. Congrats on that. It's called Mending Reality and Advocate's existential journey with mental health. And it's out now. I really encourage people to read it. It's a beautiful touching story.

Tell your dad, we said hello. I know I really like your dad, but you can give him a big hug for me. I will. Yeah, tell my help to be the dad that he was proven to be. He'll be listening. He called me on my way out here. He's like, he's like, is it Monday? Is it like live? And I'm like, they've accorded. It's going to come out with some point, but he's so supportive. He's so happy to be a grandpa. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's so sweet. Fly up the fucking truck. Oh, he's got a muscle car.

Was his to vote, Vanna? Yeah. Yeah, good for him. That's his other baby. He's got his hits. Yeah, it is. Sometimes it's like, oh, he's more important. It's a car collector. I don't know either. We'll call it so nice meeting you. Thanks so much for sharing your story. It's brave in a world where people would be really wanting to hide this whole chapter of their life and move on. And I applaud you for not doing that. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, good luck with everything.

Hi there. This is Irmy and Hermione. You like that. You're going to love the fact that Miss Morgan. Welcome to the fact check. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Oh, you're doing a character. Your first character is me. Do it again? No. No, that's a high sound.

“How do I say it? It wasn't an impression. It was another guy. Oh, really?”

Yeah, a competing podcaster who also says welcome, welcome, welcome. Yeah, he's copying. I'm not going to sue. Gosh, I'm not, I don't believe in suing. Yes, you do. For liable, maybe. You know, there's a certain paradox with suing, which is, I think so often that people that get sued, they don't have anything. I know. It's a real waste of time.

I know, but it's justice. It feels like justice. Yeah, they've never sued anyone. No.

You've been sued. No. No. I think I was, I had a thread of suing some light. There was some light threatening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no one's named sue anymore.

Suzanne, Seran, Dan. Susan, go by. No, you're right. Yeah, I don't know a lot of sues. Yeah. I had an answer. You did. Yeah, it was going to be so beautiful. Wait. She's not my blood relative. This is my uncle's wife. Who, your dad's brother's wife. My dad's brother's wife. And I just thought she was so beautiful when I was a little boy. And she was so kind. That's nice. You thought she was beautiful on the inside.

Both the inside the outside. Yeah. She was just a generous, you know, my mom, she worked too.

“But I think she worked nights. Somehow she was around in the summer when I'd be at my”

couple of other grandmas. We'd hang out at my cousin's house a lot. And she was always around

to make macaroni cheese. Oh, did she make mac and cheese craft? And it was so good. And like when your mom made it, it sucked. Well, we never had craft. We had fucking cross-cutter brand. Like the broker in house brand. It was called like cost cutter, but they spelled it with a K. Is garbage. I hate to disparate. Both K's. No, the sea was a sea. We weren't in the south. Oh. But crokers. Oh, right. K, cross-cutters. I think it was the brand of all this generic food

they would sell us. My family. Okay. Yeah. And when I really wanted because my pup-a-bop, first of all, my grandma had worked for craft when she came up from Kentucky with the

Montreal clam. They all went off murdering and thieving, but Grandma Yola's got herself a really

good job at craft. She invented them. And worked there for long enough that she had a pension from there. Before she went and got her double master's degree, and became a teacher. Yeah. So we were the family was very loyal to craft because of that. So we had all the craft products. And then as you know, my pup-a-bop worked for Wonder Bread bakery, which either own houses or horses own them. Right. So Twinkies, ding-dongs, the pies, all the horses products. He was picked up

from the thrift store. And with his discount, it was virtually free. Wait, from the thrift store. Yeah. So they're in their town of Levoña. There was a little stand alone hostess thrift store. And it's where all the damage to hostess. So you'd get a box of dented ding-dongs. And it

“would be like 90 cents. And then pup-a-bop got some kind of discount. So he's like, how many you want?”

And I'm like, like, how many did you get as many as you think you can eat? That was, I think I give you 48 of those for sure. Wow. Isn't it great? Let's get it's $1. Dented ding-dong sounds like, oh, this. You know, it does. You've dented ding-dong. I had it dented ding-dong during my pironi's scare for a year. So for me, it really hits close to home.

Is it ding-dong, the peanut's like this? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Did you ding-dong out of my face? Does it come? I think it's a dog. Yeah. I think ding-dong is just a dummy. It's also that. But a dog, a dick, is also a jerk, is like, you know, all these words that God have, because they're just a course of course. But why didn't your grandma and grandpa give your mom crap? If they were just getting it all the time for free,

“they should just give in that chamomile. Why is your mom have to have croak croaks?”

Right, croak cross cutter. Yeah. Well, you know, yeah, maybe they should have sent us home was fun stuff, but they also might have felt like that would have maybe offended my mom or her, my mom's feelings that we needed groceries. Now, they did come out with a generic brand. Wasn't a generic brand, but it was a sub-brand. Right. It wasn't as expensive as craft macaroni and cheese. If I recall those were 49 cents a box, when I was a kid, yeah. Wow. And there was a

brand called golf. Golden. Golden harvest. Golden harvest. Well, just maybe go to gold and

macaroni and cheese. 80, 80, 80. Golden grain. Yeah. Yes. So that was about a third less

in price than the craft. It's the same brand behind rice soroni. Okay, great. It had bigger noodles and it was damn good. I was like, okay, I can definitely live with golden grain. Was that it? Yeah. That's really good stuff. Oh. And cheap, but a little more expensive than cost cutter. Okay. So that's where it's fallen in the the mix. Or you just had the black and white box of macaroni and cheese. I was also terrible. Okay. I also, I didn't have mac and cheese, but then,

you know, I'd go to France houses and their moms were mad. Oh, god. It was so good. How did they make it that good? And then finally, my, I like convinced my mom to make it. Yeah. And then it was I'm good. I'll tell you what parents I think you can milk. No, I'll tell you exactly what happens because

directions. And it says use a quarter cup of butter, which is a half stick of butter. My

“gramma didn't give a fuck. She's like, yeah, you eat 10 sticks of butter. But I think my mom and”

most moms were like, I bet we can get away with a quarter stick of butter. Is it a pretty quality? Like, I'm feeding my kid a half of a stick of butter, margarine in my case. Margarine. And so I think they skimped on the butter. And I even noticed, Kristen will prepare it that way. And when I make it, the kids are like, Dad, you make the best Mac. I'm like, yeah, use two packs of cheese. I also use two packs of cheese. And I use a full quarter cup,

splash half stick of butter. Yeah. I go, here's my thing. Like, if we're doing it. If you're doing it,

exactly, I agree. I think my mom used margarine and skim milk. And probably didn't put the right amount

of margarine. Maybe I don't know. Maybe I'm sure she's like, that's gotta be too. It looks crazy. I know, but I use it. And I ate a whole box. So I'm like, I am eating a half stick of butter. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Um, I had to drink skim milk because I had high cholesterol as a baby. Yeah, as a little kid. They knew you and I don't think I ever had my cholesterol. Yeah, they would do physicals. And check your cholesterol. Yeah. And you're like the cholesterol of a seven year

“man. I had high cholesterol as a kid. That's why it's like, when I have it now, I'm just like,”

yeah, duh, I've had it since I was a baby. What are we a baby? I had it for 15, 20 years from whenever I was getting attested until two years ago, three years ago. Yeah, I don't anymore. I'm in that fucking, like, mid-the-low now that I can't believe it. I'm not on a statin, but I'm on red rice yeast. Which is nat natures. It's called golden grain statin. I think it's the same act of thing that's in a statin. Yeah. Then additionally, I'm on a medication called Zedia,

which old doctor Richard Isaacson gave me. Yeah. And that dropped it significantly. And it doesn't work the same way as a statin. Right. I guess you can either attack on a cholesterol scenario. You can either attack how much there is the overall or how quickly your body absorbs it. Mm-hmm. He's like, I think you had an absorption problem. Uh-huh. Let's get you on Zedia and that fucking overnight, Monica. I was like, well, now we're talking. This is what I was supposed to be. And I kind of

almost resigned, like, it sounds like you have. Well, no, I'm on a statin and I'm on the GLP one. And now it's normal. It's normal now. After all these years. Yeah. I hope you didn't do any damage. I hope it's all reversible. I mean, I was born with this. What am I supposed to do? I was just a baby, baby. Yeah. No, my mom was cutting the margarine short. She's like, I can't feed this kid cholesterol. She's gonna have a coronary episode. Exactly. But when you would go to your grandparents' house in

Savannah, would they dump the butter in there and make it good? I don't think they made crafty, but my grandpa would every day he'd pick me up something from like, um, Cassie's. Exactly. From crystals. Like, crystal every day. Yeah. Um, this is what the, this is a crampion. So fun. Or talk about, or anything. Or anything I wanted. He would get it for me. He loved you. He loved me so much. He loved me so much. It's crazy. Yeah. Sort of my grandparents isn't at the

“greatest. Yeah. I mean, till the end. Think that's how you're, but that would have been a big chunk of”

our lives if we grew up, but we were supposed to. You're supposed to live with your whole fucking family. No. And it would have been so nice. Everyone's so, we're done talking about Aunt Sue. She might have turned on you. No. Yes. No, no, no, no, no, no. Aunt Sue remained. She liked the sweet, sweetest woman. Yeah. I love her. I love her. Such a wonderful woman. How did she pass? Cancer. Yeah. Is Uncle Randy still with us? Fuck yeah. I was texting with him yesterday. He's in California.

Actually, flew home last night. He's out visiting my cousins and we tried to get a breakfast going. I was going to say you guys are out, but we tried. But no, he Uncle Randy every

taxi sends me. It's him playing either pickleball or full court basketball. He's always been

an athlete. And it's just like, yeah, he's reaping the rewards of that. That's great. Like, my, yeah, I think about this all the time. I'm 51. I was hiking the other day. Yeah. And when I graduated college in 2000, I would have been 25, which meant he would have been 51. Yeah. 52. Okay. He could not do anything with us. Like, they all came out for the graduation. And we went to, like, to pay and get my favorite sandwiches. And we took a little walk,

not up. And he's I'll stay in the car. Everywhere we went, he could like, going to get it. He was large. He was large. He just had been so hard on his body. He had so many hard

where I remember thinking, well, that's it for him. He's not like not walking anymore. Oh, my God. It fell asleep in the hot tub. That whole story, we got to fight. I did. You can't be in the hot tub by yourself when I leave. Why are you talking? I'm like, because I woke you up. You were dead asleep in the hot tub. And your fucking nose was at the floor. It's from the water. But I've been also a panel. Okay. But imagine your kid now, you're going up to you and saying,

Dad, you can't go in the hot tub without us. You'd be, you would be like, what the fuck?

First of all, I'd be smart enough to go. Okay. Great. I won't. And then I would just go

“when. And if that's what I was going to do. But I would have been smart enough to not get,”

no, I would have recognized it for what it was, which is I was concerned about him. He should have felt loved. Fine. Forget it. It's your kids. If I said it, then you'd be mad at me. Well, clearly, because I've not yet been discovered in a hot tub sleep. I'm saying, if you were, and I was like, or you didn't know you were, but I was like, hey, you just so you know, like, I don't want you to go in the hot tub again without anyone else there. You'd be like,

yeah, fuck you. Yeah. And I'd be like, well, listen, I saw you almost died. I mean, is there a hard night with that? Because I have to imagine that that happened that I passed out in the hot tub. Well, you've done some things that you don't like being called out on, trying to think. That's a big statement. Well, I was like three or four things in the chamber. But I happened last night. You fell asleep in the hot tub. I fell asleep.

Which I got, this is starting to happen. Listen, I said, we had a guest today and I had to watch that guest show. So we all gotten bed and we were watching it. And like, you know, it was it voted. We had a detractor. We had one member that wanted to watch something else. But three of us wanted to watch this anyways. And I said, or someone said, well, Dad has to watch this for words. So we'll watch your show tomorrow night. So we're watching our show that we are watching because I

have to. Yeah. And I felt like those doff. Oh, that's okay. It was like a clock. We had to we had a big. Yeah, that's not falling asleep enough. But this is what woke me up. I hear,

“well, if he's going to sleep through this whole thing, can we just turn my show on?”

I agree with that. And it's a great point. Yeah. So then I woke up in dignity. No, what did I say? I said a guy can't close his eyes for two minutes. Oh, you know, I was like being a funny grandpa. Oh. And then I was awakened up to finish the episode and then another. But I was like, oh, yeah, we're at a phase where I fall asleep, watching TV sometimes. I, I, I welcome. I don't think that's an age thing. Something. No,

you know when you're at like a Thanksgiving and it's past Thanksgiving and like all the men go watch

football in the couch and about 45 minutes into the game 60% of the men are asleep. I would always

watch that and just say, what is up with these guys? They can't stay awake all day. You know, because I was young. That's trip to fan and also that is not an age thing. Like, I think people fall asleep all the time at young ages. I think it increases as you get older. Oh, grandparents are always fall asleep. My grandma made she'd always go, I'm not sleeping I'm rushing to my eyes. She was clearly asleep all the time. You know, she could fall. If you

“she sat down for more in eight minutes, you would take a little nap. So yeah, I think it's age related.”

Do I think I'm there? You better listen when people tell you can't go on the hot tub. Well, I will say this gets me further down the road and do accepting that you could discover me dead asleep dreaming in the hot tub. Yeah. Or not one of the sauna. I was going to say, son, that's more likely. It's your two miserable, the fall asleep in a sauna. No, but you could pass out and then die. Oh, don't go in there. I'm going to go in there right after work. Everything

I already turned it on. But I'm going to stay white awake. Okay. Oh, I have something I wanted to talk about. Okay. I had a really crazy son. Oh, wow, tell me. Really crazy. After the play. No. After Delta's play. Yeah, Delta's play. Okay. The day before Delta's play Friday, I went to dinner with Jess and Anna at Oibar, a place in studio city delicious. I really, again, I say all these places and then it can't get anywhere and it's really annoying. But whatever,

Oibar, fantastic place. And we don't go there a lot. It's like, it's not in the rotation really. It's more random. That's the first time hearing of it. Yeah. Fantastic place.

And we went and we had a server wonderful. Love to her. She was great. Never dinner. Next day,

we go to Delta's play. After Delta's play, we decided to go somewhere for an hour. You and Anna, are you on and Jess? I mean, Anna, but then we, we texted Jess and said, we're going to black cat. Another place we almost never go. Okay. Where's that located? So really. All right, other side of town. Exactly. Not even anywhere close to studio city. We're way far west. So we

us. Yes. That's our server from last night. Same server to different restaurants. Not even close to the same part of town. Not places we normally go. That is great. That thing is a duplicate. Yes. It's a duplicate. A dupe. Well, my thought would be because you do like black cat. I like it. Yeah. And you love the other place she works. I would be like, excuse me, where else do you work? I got to try that. Huh? Because she's good. She has good taste and where she works. That's true. I mean,

we did say, like, whoa, this is so weird. She was like, I know. Yeah. I see you've seen hard to juggles

“to serving schedules at two different restaurants. Are they owned by the same company, maybe?”

No. Wow. Did she get into the logistics of her? She just said she needed two jobs, basically.

Yeah. But you know, one allows her to, that just seems hard. They're going to call for sure on the same day. They don't. She's juggling it. Well, no, she's not because she's made up. She only does lunch is one place in dinner. She's not real. Are you listening? Okay. She's all sorry. She's made up lady. Okay. And she's a cutout. Okay. And it's like, where is what you see? Exactly. What if she said, what if she had no memory of meaning you and then she had

a different name? Well, I know. That's like, we are going to see her again and she's not going to notice and then jazz will be like, oh my gosh, you. And then you'll see this little, like, a little flicker. Uh-huh. Reboot. Reboot. Okay. And then she's like, oh, yes. Oh, my gosh. Yes. I also work here. They'll just fed her a lie. Uh-huh. A believable lie. Yes. Yes. They modeled on all these different

“AIs. Yeah. I think you should get her in the friendship group. She's busy working.”

Yeah. That's true. But I just thought that was so weird. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, what's next? I know. I got nervous. I did, you know, I was like, oh, you know, when we get AIs when it's getting too obvious, they're going to pull the plug on us. So like, yeah. I did worry me because that was way too obvious. It is a role makes no sense. Yeah. Yeah. Lazy. It's weird that AIs, Lazy. Because that's what we think they're industrious. Well, yeah. Maybe to save energy.

They. Exactly. There's a bigger deal of their service seen or something. They have to save water that day. Water and power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, she did something. Yes, please. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. This is an intense episode. The bravery of Cohen is astonishing. It is. I hope people listen.

“Me too. What he needs. I think they will. Yes. This is a very fascinating, unique privilege”

perspective to hear someone. I know. You hear about schizophrenia and psychotic breaks. You hear

about it academically or reported. Yes. You never hear from the person experience. I know.

Yeah. I feel quite lucky. We've gotten really lucky between the sociopaths. I mean, it's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Order line. Getting to hear the personal perspective. It's been so cool. It really has. It really has. And every time it makes me, it deepens my empathy. Same. Yeah. Same. It is. And this one really challenged my preconceived stance on the medication. I know you've really been. Yeah. I've been kind of open to this notion that yeah, it's it's yet it's one of the tools.

Yeah. And yeah, you could say, well, why isn't every alcoholic on antibodies for the rest of their life? That's a medicine that makes you throw up if you drink alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. How

much can you drink on it? Like, you can't even have. No, I don't think you can. I've never been on it.

Right. I know my dad was on it when he got out of treatment. It was like standard. He's very standard when you got out of treatment. I don't know if it still is, but when my dad went in the 80s, you're recommended to be on antibodies for like the first month out of treatment. Oh, is it a pill? It's a pill. Interesting. Yeah. No, it's like, what if it's a placebo? Like, if you're told this pill will make you throw up the second drink alcohol. Who tries it?

Clearly, people have tried it. Well, definitely. But I wouldn't try it. I'm like, if I'm going to throw up the second I have it, I won't be able to get it in me. What is the point of trying? Wait, no, you don't throw up. You throw up from drinking. Yeah. As soon as you have alcohol, yeah, yeah. The medication makes you throw up. Right. So you can't get blood in your alcohol or

which I don't mind, you know, as you've witnessed, because I'm comfortable. But if you throw up,

then can you have more? Because if you're an alcoholic, yeah, throwing up doesn't do anything. You know, but if you can't get in your body, because you're going to throw up every time you have that. That's true. Then it's just like prevents it from entering. Yeah. Wow. So, you know, you could argue, every alcohol should be on there for the rest of their life. Maybe some people should,

“I don't know. But I mean, I'm with you. It's a deeper issue. There are things that you have to”

that are emotional and mental health based underneath that, that need addressing. Yeah. And then

there's many, many things you could employ. And then if those are not working, then you can

use that. I know, it's tricky. I have, I have a complicated relationship with medicine because I, and this is not fair, probably, but it is a little fair because I am medicated. I'm like, just fucking take it. For sure. But your medication also doesn't turn you into a zombie. Exactly. And I understand that. That's right. It does not affect me negatively. That I, that I know. I mean, you can imagine scenario where the medicine makes life so unenjoyable

to live that you just assume be dead. I know. That's exactly. And that is what the claim is. It's just like, I, and I, yeah. So I know. But it's like, but it's so hard. It's like, I have, I have categories. I'm up for that approach. I think you need a copilot. Like, he's married. Yeah. He has someone in his life that can observe if he's not sleeping, he can observe a lot of

“things. Yeah. If you're fucking loan Wolfie net, I, I think you should take the medicine. I know.”

It also just, and I know it's self, it's selfish on my part because I just can't stand the feeling of being around someone who I feel like might be unstable. Yes. Unpredictable. Unpredictable. It's, that's very triggering for me. It gives you anxiety. Yeah. It gives me anxiety. So it helps to learn not only 4% of schizophrenics or violent. Um, I found that helpful. I guess my, my, you know, bar room understanding of it was like,

if your schizophrenia, my hunch was like, you have a 30% chance of getting violent at some point. When not necessarily that you kill someone, but that you're going to be in a fight with cops, or you're going to be in a fight on the street, you know, yeah, for some reason for me, it's not even the violence part that's triggering. It's like, what's going on in that person's mind. Yeah. I find that scary. But it's just something like alcoholism too, or it's like,

it affects almost everybody. You think you're the only family dealing with it. But like, I know, I know now in my life, several people who have disappeared for periods of time has and they've done really wild things. Yeah. This woman that we knew very closely, family, as you remember, just left her family. She bought a crazy car. She, you know, just was in five states over on some journey that no one could comprehend what she was experiencing. And then we were friends that

that's happening like it's, I bet more people of maybe. I mean, I have, I can't go into too many details, but I have a very close person in my life that had a psychosis, and it was horrifying. Yeah. And, and yes, everyone was not just affected, then is still affected and constantly affected

and a constant, again, there's like low-level anxiety. Well, that's always always. And that's not

“their fault, you know, but it, that's why when it's like you're not taking your medicine, like,”

okay, well, now my anxiety has to be higher. I mean, that's also, again, like, it does. And I can work on myself and say, like, that's not about me. An hour less over you. Exactly. But it's hard. It isn't really, really hard. And it does affect absolutely everyone in your orbit. It's hard to watch people who love hurt themselves. I know, or hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Not have control over their brain. Like, it's, I mean, none of us could control over our brains really. I guess it's a sliding scale,

but yeah, I think it's closer than we think. Yeah. Well, no, that's, then I had, like, major PTSD after a big incident. Yes, because I was like, oh, I'm, that's me. Like, I'm, I have that, too. Yeah. Um, so is schizophrenia, a genetic, also my dad's oldest brother had schizophrenia.

He was, like, a very nice, nice boy. And he had been an admiral or something to raise? No, the oldest, who, and, like, had a caretaker and, and stuff. I met him only when I was four in India. Um, but he was, like, a nice boy. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Yes. It has a strong genetic component, but it is not determined by DNA alone. Genetics account for roughly 60% to 80 of the risk,

meaning environmental factors in life experience is also play a critical role in triggering the

condition. I wonder how many people just, like, habit, latent, and it's not been triggered.

“Oh, I think a lot of people make it through, because again, there's this window of vulnerability. Exactly.”

But, like, what if I have it? No, no, you, you've, you've exited the window. No, I've exited the window for it to express itself in me. Oh, what if I have the gene here? Yeah. Oh, but it does say it's not caused by single schizophrenia gene. Oh, okay. So that's good. It's probably what we learned. What's it called? Polygenetic. Polygenetic. Yeah, I had a girlfriend whose mother was schizophrenia. And I remember then learning about it and going, "Ooh, I'm now scared." Yeah, scary. Yeah. Um, it does say

if one identical twin develops gets a friend of the other twin has a 50% chance of developing it,

despite sharing the exact same DNA. This is the strongest evidence that genetics are powerful, but not the only cause. That would almost imply that half the people with it are getting it activated. Yikes. Oh, I just wanted to remind people of the aces. Okay. Do you want to take the test again? Yeah. It's only five minutes. It's only five minutes. Yeah. Okay, sure. This is discovering your trauma type. This is a crude childhood. What is it? Yeah, a adverse childhood experience. There we go.

Okay, but radiative statement based on your personal opinion. I noticed it. These are a little hard, though, because I have taken this a few times. Yeah, but this seems different for some of

it. Like food scarcity is an interesting one. Yeah. Like no, I was never starving. Right. And also,

you went to the store and you got, you know, there was a gallon of milk and there was X amount of ground beef. There was a period where it was like, you were hyperconscious of how much food there was. Yeah. You got trouble for you to much of food. Yeah. Well, again, yeah, it's all not good. But that's not starving. It's not like I went days without eating. It's just like, oh, I remember there was a period where there was stress around the food in the house. Yeah. Yeah, that's hard for sure. Okay,

so I'll read this one quick, but then the test, if I'm going to test is different, but I just want

“to do it. Are you sure you don't have to pay at the end of it? I'm not sure, but I think things are.”

Boy, you're not sure. So for aces, there's categories, so it's like abuse and then under abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, then there's neglect under that physical neglect emotional neglect. Three household challenges under that mental illness in the household and incarcerated household member substance use by household member parental separation or divorce domestic violence. And then other common childhood stressors such as community violence,

systemic discrimination, food insecurity, and unstable housing. Yeah, so that's in there. But this fun test is about what kind of trauma or your trauma. Tell me about your trauma, huh? Tell me about your trauma. Okay, now this is strongly agree, you know, you know, that whole thing. I notice small shifts and people's moods immediately. Strongly agree. I often feel like I am quote on my own, even when I'm in a crowd. Yeah, agree. Okay. Oh, man, this is nothing.

You got to see other tricky part about injuries, questions like now versus most of my 20s and 30s.

“Let's do now. Let's do now. Okay. How you're trauma. Okay. So what do you think now?”

There's also neutral. I'm going to go between neutral and agree, but I think agree. I still think I gotta do this or it's not. Yeah. Okay. I find it very hard to say no when someone asks for a favor. disagree. Certain smells or sounds can instantly change my mood. I agree. It's strongly agree. I'm very cautious about who I lent my inner circle, neutral. I prefer to sit facing the door and arrest around our public space. Yeah, strongly agree squared. I've hired myself on not needing

help from anyone else. Strongly agree. I worry that if I show my true feelings, people will leave. Agreed. I sometimes feel like I'm re-living a past argument in my head. Oh my god, you know,

having an argument with someone. And old argument. Yeah. I pay more attention to what people do than

what they say. Agreed. I'm easily startled by sudden movements or loud noises. disagree. Except when I'm Eric. sneezes. That's you. That got us all. That really got us. If you're not

“startled by Eric's sneeze, you're dead. That's the only time I think I've ever seen you. Like like”

action and I got angry. Right. Yeah. It makes me angry if I get startled. Oh, that was so funny. Oh my god. Okay. I tend to shut down when our relationship gets to intense. That has been the pattern. That's, you know, not currently. So what I'm doing? Yeah. I agree. I feel responsible for making sure everyone around me is happy. Yeah. Strongly agree. I have specific triggers that make me want

to hide away. You're shaking your head. Yes. Okay. I'll say agree. I am always waiting for the

other shoe to drop in a good situation. Yeah. Strongly agree. I find it difficult to fall asleep if I hear unfamiliar noises. Yeah. I feel trapped if someone depends on me too much. Yeah. Strongly agree. I apologize even when I haven't done anything wrong. Oh god. Yeah. Yeah. This is the endless. This is the shepherd. When you haven't done I've been, when I'm just in my brother and I are always in trouble. Every it's like first question is in my end trouble. All right. But what did I do? Okay. You know?

“So agree. Yeah. Okay. I often feel like my life is a series of before and after moments.”

It's abstract. Yeah. It is. What do you think that means? I feel like my life is a series of before

and after. I mean, maybe is it like maybe this is why it was before? Yeah. Like this is before

surprise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to agree. Okay. I have a very hard time for giving people who lied to me once. disagree. I am constantly scanning my environment for potential problems. Yeah. 100%. I'd rather solve a problem myself than explain it to someone else. Oh yeah. agree. Not strongly agree. I'm the peacemaker and my friend group or family. To some degree. Yeah. Neutral. I have that middle child thing right. Like if I'm with my family, I'm I'm trying to adjust

everybody's mood and as tensions are swelling. I'm I'm on it. So in that way, I think I agree. Okay. I can be physically present but mentally miles away in the past. I'd say neutral. I am suspicious of people who are overly nice for no reason. Oh, yeah. strongly agree. God, I hope I don't have to pay. I feel I'm because I want to know. I feel an easy and large uncontrolled crowds. Uncontrolled crowds. Yeah. Right. Well, it's interesting.

Un easy versus aroused. I'm also quite aroused. But you're also aroused. I'm on high alert.

“But I think I can handle my business. I'm kind of aroused. I mean, I don't think you're at ease.”

No, no, no, no, no. I'm like fucking die of this guy. This guy's popping off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So agree. Okay, I agree. I value my freedom more than emotional intimacy. Yeah. Freedom's huge for me. Yeah. So agree. I find myself changing my personality to fit in with different groups. strongly disagree. I get a heavy feeling in my chest when I think of certain years. disagree. I feel like I have a shield around my heart most of the time.

Oh, I don't disagree. Yeah. I notice exit signs and escape routes were whenever I enter new building. I find it difficult to share my deep secrets with anyone disagree. I feel a deep need to be liked by everyone I meet. strongly agree. I often have dreams of my that feel like warnings from my past. Oh, yeah, strongly agree. I struggle to believe people when they give me a compliment. That's evolved neutral. Yeah. I'm highly sensitive to the tone of

someone's voice. Yeah. A strong language. Yeah. Two sensitive to that. I prefer to know. I'm I'm actually imagining things. I think a lot of time. Oh, God. Wait, when you hear someone's voice? Like, well, you and I will be in a fact check. Mm-hmm. And I will detect something in your voice. Yeah. And then I will get like defensive. Right. And then I will hear it later. Yeah. And I'm like, oh my god, I don't even hear it now. You know what I'm saying? I'll go like, this is

curious. Was I wrong, then or am I wrong now? Right. But do you have that? Yeah. Well, I I'm very sensitive to changes. And yeah, tone or, or, but I don't normally. But then when you're editing or you're like, oh, I, I, I, I, it was much more, no, that stays consistent. I feel that I'm consistent. Okay. Great. But I wonder if it means like, like, Kristen is like, audit poorly, very sensitive. Mm-hmm. Like if someone has like a weird voice or something, she's

really going to notice it. I don't think I'd notice it. I don't know what that means. Whatever,

possible. Again, that evolved. That's how it was. And that's not how it is now. So I would say disagree now. Okay. Great. I prioritize other people's comfort over my own needs. I'm going to go neutral. Great. Yeah. I find it hard to find. I don't think you can be a family member and not do that. You can't function. If, if you prioritize, if you don't prioritize other people about your own things,

it's like, it has, it won't function. It's a given take though. If you're always doing it, that's one thing.

If you're, but I think you make your needs known. Yeah. Yeah. But you also then decide not to

“hit. Right. Like you should have heard the debate. Like how we ended up in mess hall last night was like a”

fucking hour long thing, right? And at some point, I'm like, I'm going to surrender to whatever, any, anything they agree on, I'll go wrong with at this point. There's a lot of that when you have kids. Right. But you have like, you have a need to be yourself. Sure. That's some, that's a need for you. Yeah. Like to not compromise who you are. That's true. So you're not going to not do that. So that's someone else feels comfortable. No, I'm not going to be someone else. Yeah. Somebody. Yeah. No,

no, no. Okay. I find it hard to focus on the present because my mind wanders. No, disagree. This is a lot longer. They said five minutes. And they didn't say it's going to cost anything, but we're going to find me. Oh my God. We're at the cost part. No, but there's a lot more. Okay. She was a call. I see the pattern emerging. I can, I feel like I can predict what the outcome is. I don't even know what the, what the options are, though. Super duper. Kind of, what is a kind? You're kind of

“this, you're super duper. Whatever is, why don't you know what they're going to use? Trauma size?”

Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Oh, fine. You know what? I'm going to give up my need for the audience's come. Wow. Good job. Thank you. Good job. Thank you. Although I don't know if it's a good job because we didn't find out if that's good or bad, but well, there's no goods or bad. This is just who we are. Who broke two hours in a marathon recently? A Kenyan runner, Sebastian Saw, and Ethiopian runner, Yomith. Kind of love when you get these. Shea Helva, Kajelka.

Sounds German. It's K, E, J, E, L, C, H, A. I just don't know how to do it. Um, but yeah, two of them. That's bonkers. What is the time? I know. Uh, and what's a mile, uh, marathon's 26.4 miles. Yeah, 26. I don't know. Maybe, yeah, four sounds, right? Sebastian was 159.30. Okay. So 159.30 is a hundred, uh, is a hundred and nineteen,

“a hundred and nineteen point five minutes divided by 27.26.4. We think?”

26.2. 26.2. So it's a four minute and thirty second mile. That's 27 times. That.

That is no insane. That is not feel possible. I couldn't run a five minute mile to save everyone on planet Earth. Well, you probably could for that, but only once you couldn't do it for 26 miles. I don't even know if I can run that fast. Like, I don't know what my sprint is. I know. We could figure out how many miles an hour they're running. Okay. Is this a need? Oh, yeah. Well, I could do it really easy. Okay. Oh, yeah. How many miles

per hour are you running if you're running a four minute and thirty second mile? There's so much better than me trying to remember how it is. No, it was more fun when you were doing fast math. 13.3 miles an hour. That is full. I think you're going to try a million. Try to rent nine miles an hour or 10. You're like sprinting. Yeah, you are. Yeah. Fuck me. 13. I don't even know if I got right a bike for 26 miles. Oh, my God. There.

Okay. Party schools. Let's talk about the top. Party schools in America. 26. Oh, there's a few. I better be on there. UCSB. No way. Made it. That's a, um, that is an Easter egg. It's an Easter egg for a upcoming one of the most likable guests we've ever had. Incredible guest.

UCSB. That's number one. Number two. Florida State. FSU and ASU are always right. They're,

they're always duking it out. Yeah, but you know what's number three on this list? Although this is from niche.com. What the hell is that? Not so sure, but this says two lane is three. Well, that makes sense,

As you'll see us being. That's 15. Well, a number four is USC. Oh, wow. I don't believe this

“list, but go ahead. Oh, my God. I mean, do you think USC is a bigger party school than ASU?”

I mean, I find it. It's you. They have a lazy river around one of the dorms we found out, right? Well, I think I said that, but then this, well, we were saying it was at the school, which turned out to be not correct, but I do think is at one of the living, the housing. I mean, I agree. I'm, I'm skeptical of USC. Yes, but also, well, mainly because I'm aware of the girls. You're in the middle of the fucking run. She is part of LA. Right. Okay. Now, this five's University of Wisconsin, Madison,

six rolled tight. Yeah. I mean, they got to be above USC. Yeah. Alabama. Exactly. You go there to

black house. Surprise. Okay. There we go. Seven is Syracuse. Never even heard that. Syracuse. This is

a big school. No, I've heard of school. I've never heard it's a party school. Well, we've, we've never been. Eight. Good hugs. UGA. ASU is not been on this list yet, right? Just confirming. I'm literally not seeing it at all. I'm like, really, now I'm scrolling. Yeah. Okay. This list for got one. But Georgia. Good job. It's on there. And it deserves it. And it is so fun. I just had a really interesting meeting with someone at Georgia about you getting involved. They're doing

some really, I'm, I'm really proud of it. They're doing some really cool stuff there to help get people pumped about UGA. Well, to school. Uh-huh. It's great. We're going to discard this list because ASU is on it. And if I went to ASU right now, I would be taking action against this list. Okay. This is, wow, though. I'm looking at some other. U-C-S-B is on all these, though. That seems, that's comforting. Yeah. Okay. Good. Okay. Wait, what about college vine? Let me just do a

quick. Just like, do you trust that one? I never heard of that either. Oh, this one. Yeah, no. This one

“has Alabama first. I believe it. But as you, U-C-S-B second. Okay. Okay, has Georgia. As long as an”

answer. Seven. As you? None of these have been clamped down at ASU. What does happens? I mean, something because these are all like, I am curious. Oh, business insider. Let's look at that. I am curious as malatendance has fallen dramatically at all these colleges. Oh, if it's affected. How much it affects the party? Boys are much more right a passage. Go too far. You know. Yeah, but in Georgia. The girls begin to talk to you. Yeah, it doesn't feel like that.

It's like, as many fraternities as our sororities, everyone's downtown the whole week and weekend. Okay. And football games are everywhere. You know, so yeah. Trinking. It's egalitarian. Yeah. All right. Well, business insider made me pay so I don't know. Okay. Okay. What are the eight dimensions of wellness? Oh, this is good. It has an acronym SAMHSA. Sam Harris. Sam Hussain Monage. Said, yeah. This is not a good acronym. Hey, say it. You got to be able to do better with those

letters. Okay. If I'm going to rearrange it, I'll do. Shashimi. No, mosh. No, Matt. Mash ass. Oh, I like that. Well, read me that. Yeah. Okay. Physical, emotional, social, intellectual, spiritual, you're already on. No, sorry. Spiritual, environmental, occupational, or vocational, and financial. Oh, he's get stung by B over there? No, I have a burn and like something weird is happening to my

“burn. I think because it's getting heated up by the sun. I haven't been wearing sunscreen on.”

Okay. It's burning again. Yeah. Okay. So physical, emotional, social, intellectual, spiritual, environmental, occupational, and financial. Those make sense to me. Yeah. Me, too. All right. I believe them. Me too. Unlike that list, that would exclude ASU. Well, like you said, maybe it's changed. Well, we didn't read that they had shut ASU down. It's too much party and we got it. It, right? Yes. Okay. Percentage of people with psychosis who have psychosis. Approximately three

percent of people will experience a psychotic episode at some point in their lifetime. Whoa. Well, a diagnosable psychotic order like schizophrenia is less common, affecting roughly 0.25

appeared during late adolescence or early adulthood. Remember the armchair anonymous? Which one?

“Remember bad roommate? That girl was like, caddis psychosis. Yes, I do remember. Yeah.”

She thought that the boyfriend was abusing her. Yeah. All right. Well, that's it. Okay. Great job.

Great job. And I'm going to let it go. That we don't. That we didn't finish. Yeah. Okay.

“We didn't finish our quiz. I'm going to let it go. That seems like it's wrong, right? No, but yeah, really”

I'm doing a great job letting it go. All right. Love you all.