Edward Norton Returns Again

And I'm Dan Shepherd, I'm joined by Monica Norton.

- Hello. - Hello. - It's not true, we're not married. - No, because he's married to my friend, Sean. - Sean? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. For people who don't know the backstory,

Sean, Edward's wife. - That's right. - Producer extraordinaire. - Yes. - Introduce Chris and I.

- Yes. - And then you'll hear a funny story about when we had babies, which may be have already heard, but we revisit it. - Yeah, that's true.

- Yeah, very serendipitous, semi-moment happened. - 'Cause she had a dinner party. This is not the, if you miss it originally, Sean, I had a dinner party where you two met.

“- Yeah, birthday dinner party for Jonah, I think.”

- Oh, yeah. - That a restaurant. - There's only like eight of them. - Do you remember which restaurant? - It was on Melrose, it's kind of a famous

fiance restaurant, I suppose, but I can't think of any of it. - It's like Jones, like Dan Tanner. - It was in Jones or Dan Tanner. Mark, towards L'Abrao, like more in that pocket of Melrose.

- Yeah. - Yeah, or Beverly could also bet on Beverly. And that holds on for the... - It doesn't matter, West. - The point is Edward Norton is our guest today

as an Academy Award-nominated actor and filmmaker, Fight Club America history, X-Primele, Fear Birdman. 'Cause the new movie out, we're continuing on with our invite week because we love the movie so much.

- Yeah, it's so good. - So we're pushing on strong and hard. It's talking more about the invite and to hear all good things from Edward Norton. Please enjoy.

(upbeat music) - Well, I'm gonna do this after 'cause it's such a dream. - It's a dream. - You got your tea, it's steeping. You have a cream top.

Did you drive from Malibu or from Hollywood? - I was in Santa Monica working and then I came here. - What are you working on? - I am raising a lot of money right now. - Okay, for that cargo company.

- Shipping the mission. - Yeah, have you seen this thing? - He has a barge company, right? And it has a 13 story crane on it, 15. Sorry. - Get it right.

- Get it right. Imagine in the crane game, it's all about those stories. - You know, this crane was originally. It was a construction site concrete delivery. Oh, right, it was for the delivery of concrete.

Up into high stories. - Oh, yeah. - Construction sites.

“- Yeah, so they're built for a ton of weight, right?”

That concrete once you've got 13 stories of it in the tube. - And all we're doing is bringing gas down. - Yeah, yeah. - So he has these barges and there's a 15 story crane on top. And when a ship is in poor, it hovers above the smoke stack

of the ship, insects up all the carbon monoxide. Or I'm not sure what it's getting. - It's actually the poisons, it's the nitrous oxide, sulfurous dioxide, and particulate matter. - All these diesel waste.

- We don't even actually deal with the CO2. Obviously people have their opinions and there's a lot of debate about CO2 and atmospheric CO2 and all of it, right? - Yeah.

- But there are no regulations on CO2 right now. - For the ships or just society. - You don't make you be compliant with CO2. But we do have this super interesting 'cause even the Trump EPA regulates nitrous dioxide

sulfurous dioxide, because it kills people. That's what gives you lung cancer. So you could call it the smog. That's the stuff that creates the smog. It's really, really bad for people.

I think the stat I heard is that the emissions off the ports in California drive like six and a half

billion of respiratory health costs in the state every year.

Like cancer, asthma. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the number I heard you talk about, which is crazy is that you've only been doing this

“for a year or something, how long has this been operational?”

- Operational since 2023. - Okay, so for three years. But you were saying, maybe it was in the full duration of its deployment, but maybe you were just saying a year that it was the equivalent of 65 million cars.

- Just last year. - Yeah, okay, so in one year. - Oh my God. - It's sucking the equivalent of 65 million cars. - Operating for years.

- Wow. - Yeah, that's a lot. - That's a lot. - That's a lot. - It's a lot of the reason. - Yeah.

- The ships are really, really, I mean, you know a lot about cars. So you actually know what a catalytic converter is. - Yes.

- The catalyzer, it basically is taking things that are poisonous,

like nitrous dioxide and sulfur dioxide. If you catalyze nitrous dioxide into nitrogen and oxygen, then it's just air. - You're good. - Which is wild when you think about it that bonded, it's horrible.

- Oh, chemistry's endlessly fascinating. - Exactly. - It's like, oh, this shape is good. The shape plus the shape is your dad. - Your dad. - Yeah, it's amazing.

I don't even think people totally grasp what a good job we've done on cleaning up cars. Obviously, there's some stuff coming out, and not as clean as an EV or something like that. But the average cars emissions are just not even

- Totally. - You and I probably came to L.A.

“somewhere approximate to each other at 95, right?”

- Yeah, 95 is the first time I came to L.A.

- To shoot Primal Fear. - Oh, that's not here. - Yeah, here in Chicago a little bit. - Yeah, I still have it in my head as being Chicago. - 95 is when you came?

- Yes, ma'am. He was shooting Primal Fear. You were eight years old. - I was eight years old. - Oh, that's true.

- He was eight years old. - He was eight years old. - He was eight years old. - Well, I was only eight to eight years. - It's just eight years old.

- Sure. And we were all young.

- You never saw the San Gabriel Mountains in the mid-90s.

- People believe in saying it sounds hilarious. Like, I'll be traveling. People went, oh, I was a small guy. I'm like, do that's such an 80. Like, that's so 80s that you're thinking that like,

I don't ever see dirty air. - Be quiet, Tom Hanks. - That's enough. - You know, we never talked about your grandfather. I got super interested in your grandfather today.

- What's his license? - Rouse, Jim Rouse, yeah. - James Rouse, I found this guy fascinating. He's World War II, yeah. - He served in the Navy and Naval Strategic Command at Pearl Harbor.

“And when did he get into city planning and of civil engineering?”

- It's funny, very much, because I was just talking about him with someone. He's a very, very interesting person. He was like orphaned when he was in his early teens. And he and his brother, they lived this extremely like Huckfin Tom Sawyer like existence. Kind of rootless and parentless on the eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay.

They had older sisters who they would bounce between. But often we just cut school and go off and live on an island, crabbing and fishing and he became extremely well known. And they teach classes about him at Harvard now and everything. You had to like live with them to know what an extremely eccentric person he was.

He really did like to go out and trap Muscad and make a stew out of it. Among the many things he did, he gave Frank Gary his first commissions. - Oh, really? - Frank Gary's first building that wasn't Dennis Hopper's house was my grandfather's 1967. - Oh, wow, wow.

- I have a photo of my granddad and Frank where Frank is so young and he has this unbelievable, he looks like Ron Jeremy. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the hedgehog. - Frank credited my granddad with this. If you go and Gary Architects today, my granddad's office building built 1967 is the one in the lobby.

Anyway, Frank told me something that resonated with me, which is he came to think that he was colorblind because he had a great feeling for space and community spaces and open spaces and all these things he was known for. But Frank said he had the worst instincts about color.

And the funny thing was I always thought he was eccentric, he would wear green pants and a mod just jacket.

And you might have thought it was preppy, but he was like the furthest thing from preppy. He parked cars and hustled pool to pay for night school, played really serious poker and never took his navy pay because he won so much money playing poker.

“And he was one of those people who had an edgier life, I think then the life that he became, you know, where it became respected.”

- Yeah, yeah, you know, he'd go to a serious meeting and he had lures in his hat and I think people thought he was sort of being intentional. He only folksy or homesman and it really, really wasn't. - It was genuine. - Yeah, he was really, really funny person, but he was this incredibly accomplished kind of visionary thinker about cities. He was on the cover of Time magazine in the 70s or early 80s for his ideas about cities, which is wild. - Monica, he invented the very first year you ready for this food court in a mall, so we built a ton of malls, right?

- Lots of malls. - And he built these like festival spaces or installations and cities that were supposed to bring people together. - This is interesting digression, who knows if there are more than 10 people interested in people gathered. - In the 50s he was on Eisenhower's Housing Commission and I am told he was one of the first people to predict that the interstate highway system, which was being built in the 50s would encourage low-density development outside the cities and that the middle class would sort of leave the cities for what

became the suburbs and that this would lead to kind of an economic hollowing out of the cities. I don't know if it's true that he coined the phrase, he was an early user of the idea of suburban sprawl. And we all talk about suburban sprawl now, we grew up in it, right? - Yeah, yeah. - But he talked about suburban sprawl, he kind of predicted the hollowing out of the cities. And in the 60s and 70s when all the cities were going bankrupt basically because the middle class had kind of left for the bedroom communities.

A lot of people were like, this guy is a visionary, even in the 60s and 70s he was arguing for the need for more city planning, the revitalization of urban downtowns to bring the middle class back to the town center. He talked a lot about like the European tradition of the town center and the marketplace house. We needed to find a way to both in our suburban planning actually build communities, not just developments and strip malls. But then in the urban centers downtown Boston, he did the annual hall Quincy Market Regional.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Baltimore, he completely redeveloped the Baltimore Inter Harbor.

- Yeah. - Which wasn't super successful. - Well, what I liked about reading about him is he went on to admit, it didn't work in some cities. - No. - Some of them they were smash hits and they still stand and then the other is the city didn't take to it. - Which is fascinating. - Well, that's because in those cities there wasn't as much suburban sprawl. - Like people stay. - No, I think the opposite it was so depressed.

- Yeah, and also commercial real estate, it's always weird what makes people want to return to a city center.

And it's not just the commerce or the mall, it's sports and a lot of things go into it. - Restaurants, museums and live entertainment. - I bring him up because you have what seems to me. I don't claim to know you well enough to make this observation. But from the outside, it seems that you have among the looses grasps of any one I've ever met with their career.

You hold it so loosely from my perspective. - You mean like creative life, like in films. - Like when you choose to work, how you've navigated, as we just said 95s with 30 years of doing this, you're seeming confidence to be patient, you're a willingness to wait to something that you want to do, you're refusal to get more money.

When you decide to not be in the Avengers, you're not done, you're like, okay, I'm going to wave goodbye to like 40 million dollars, right? - Well, there's 40 million bucks. - Probably more than that. - Or down to the town you live. - Seven or eight of them, yeah, by hundreds of millions of dollars. So there's just all these moments I've just kind of observed over the years. It's such an enigma to me.

“- 'Cause I'm so different. - Do you know what I think, so funny about it?”

Number one, I was just talking to someone we both know on the phone. I said I was coming over here. - Yeah. - We were both, admiringly, talking about how good it this you are. Because you're such an auto-diadact, you're one of the people I know who I think most authentically, avidly pursues more knowledge in all forms.

You read as much as anyone I know. - Thank you. - I was saying that I thought, Sean and I will be going along. We listened to a lot. I said this in the car community, I was like, have you noticed one thing Dax does, which is a seeks affinity with a lot of his guests. Even to the point, we laughed one time because there was one person, you kept saying,

that's like this and they were like, I don't think so. Affinity meaning like a similarity. Yeah, yeah, yeah, two of all. You have an instinct, I feel like to connect. Yes, through shared.

I know we can find bedrock, right? Like in ten people. Come in, and we actually know each other. I come in and you're like, we are so different. I'm like, hey, where's the affinity?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's so many things for it. We're so similar, too. No, I like the word.

“But of course, when there are things, especially if I think I'm similar to somebody, right?”

And then they have these behaviors that like, I can't personally imagine being confident enough to do or just having the peace of mind. So when people do things that I do, we're leaving maybe feel similar, too. That are so outside of how I operate. That's the negative, like, great curiosity to me.

Yeah, like now I really, because I know we're the same, right? We're a human beings. We want to be loved and adored and we love our children. You know, like, we're all the same. So when there's these like splinters, I get so fascinated with how are you somehow having this loose grip

on all of this and I'm a strangleholding it. How we look out through the skin at other people and our inability to necessarily see ourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's wild to me because I really might have said the same thing about you. If I was talking to someone else in the sense that we've known each other pretty long time.

Yeah, yeah, 20 years. Yeah, and in different phases, I know we've talked about both of us perceiving that the other didn't like each other. I was like, God, this kind of really doesn't like it. That's so dope.

But I feel like you're on a journey that to me looks from the outside like enormously confident carving of your own path defined entirely by the stuff that's so idiosyncratic and pretty clear to you, not only your passions and gifts and everything,

but you've succeeded in multiple lanes, maybe all of us in our mind are restless and self-critical

and tend to not almost like tally the wins. We tally the dissatisfactions. Yeah. And we don't see what others see from the outside that looks like confident, non-attachment or whatever you're saying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's also complicated too, right? Like are we talking about what snapshot of me and you? No, exactly right. Like, yes, today I agree with what you're saying and thank God, it all landed nicely. But if I take a snapshot in 2014, I'm pretty panic. What are we doing now?

“The answer to your questions is not that you need to reassurance, but in a weird way,”

I don't think I have any lightness of hold on my aspirations. My ambitions, my endeavors. When you say from the outside, it looks to you like I'm sort of confidently waiting. Only doing the things I wanted to do. Yeah, we're not motivated by money.

This is not true.

Okay, first of all, I think we have talked about this.

The joke that how many actors does it take to screw in a light bulb 100,

one to do it in 99 to say I could have done that so much better. Don't think for 10 seconds that I am capable of shutting off entirely the part of my brain that goes, why did not get sent that? That's reassuring. It is reassuring.

I would have liked to have read that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I'm really excited that they're calling, but I can tell there's this urgency to it. And what that means is someone else dropped or couldn't show up. Okay, fuck it, I'll make it good.

You know what I mean? I'll show them. Also, Edward had success quite young. And that makes a difference when there's a lot of struggle. It's going to cause a little bit more of a tight, tight grasp. Right, so I can't help but come up with the hypothesis for this observation that may or may not be correct.

But one is I thought, Grandpa had a lot of money, clearly. He was like a big deal in Maryland. Yes, he was very successful. He was really wild. He didn't trust money at all.

He had an old mobile, his entire life. He lived in a very small house and he gave away all of his money. He was an extremely like man the people kind of guy. I would say the most significant financial thing. He decreased to his grandchildren.

Was he paid for a solid good college? He made it so that none of us came out of college with debt, which is huge. But that in his mind was, that's the leg up. I'm going to give you. That was pretty much it.

He gave away almost all of his money to that enterprise community partners, which was is low income housing. And that's why you were in Japan. You were working for that company? Yeah, because I kind of went to the Nick crawl.

I've admired Nick crawl in this similar way, where it's like he seemingly has been only been motivated by what makes him laugh the hardest. There hasn't seemed to be any dirty calculation of how he could get more money from the outside.

“But I interviewed him and he was like, is that's his billionaire, right?”

Or close to him. But yeah, he went to school in the limousine.

And he'll be the first one to me.

He's like, yeah, money wasn't my issue. That wasn't something I had to go out and get. I think that liberated me in a lot of ways. I think that's fucking stupid. If someone can take the privilege, childhood and turn it into just pursuing their creative interests.

I don't think I'm as relaxed about how things are going as you think I am. I'm not accusing you of having grown up with crawl money. People did, but I mean, I remember in 1992, 1993 in New York. I had an actual like little financial ledger book. And I decided to go through the exercise of like, if I want to be able to be an actor in New York

and just wait tables or do temp jobs. I have to know exactly what it actually costs to be here. So I started this exercise. I wrote down every subway token, every muffin that I bought. I tell you every single thing so that I could understand how little can I live on.

Do you remember what the tale was in '93? To live in New York in the way I was living, I needed to make about 11,000 bucks a year. I had found an apartment that was 400 bucks a month. Impossible. I ran stabilized apartments, 400 bucks a month.

I mean, it was small, yeah. I worked out a system for myself. I thought I can exist in New York City. If I knew what my nut was and I knew what I had to make.

Here's what we're similar.

That was my same strategy in LA. Yeah, like maybe eight grand a year for 10 years. Because that's what it's all about. By the way, the thing when I throw back on myself at that time was, if I had to have a car and gas in that mix, I wouldn't have pulled it off.

“How could you get by an eight grand if you were buying gas?”

A Honda Civic and Suzuki 600, like 50 miles a year. Also, gas wasn't as expensive. It wasn't as expensive. The apartment would be less. And I drove like 80 miles a week.

Do you know what's funny is? On the highway the other day. On the 101, I turned to my right. And I saw a Toyota Corolla FX 16GTS, which was my used car that I had. It's the weirdest.

It's like a trapezoid. For no amount of money what I have said that any of those could still be operating on the road. Toyota. The memory drawer that opens though, when you see the car you spent. Your late teens in Holy crap.

I have debate of getting a 91 Honda Civic DX in doing it up. Yeah, just because I lived in that car for 10 years and I'm like, I need to honor that. Fucking just feel a little. It was probably your car that you saw. It abandoned.

It's so great. So there's not that. And then my other thought was simply, you're not going to be able to even comment on this observation, but Monica can. You're in the rarest situation.

It's like your talents fucking kind of undeniable. And it was undeniable right out of the gates. I do think that's got to buy you some abatement of the anxiety. You know, you're just so validated and you're just so obviously brilliant at this. That I don't think you'll rest on with what Monica and I were.

I was like, well, I'm not getting hired. Am I not good? Like, I don't want to know if they're good or not. Yeah. You're just going and you hope it's not that you're not good.

But you don't fucking know.

“And I think that is a big source of the anxiety too.”

I also don't know if you're an actor like you are, which is at an elite level. I don't even know when you can correct me if you're thinking, "Am I good?" Or do people think I'm good? I think you think, like, "Am I portraying this character correctly?

Like, you're not really.

“It's not very external to our internal and that's what makes him so good.”

I relate to that. I can't remember if we've talked about this or not.

But I've always felt there's only two categories of actors.

I think somewhere I connect. And I'm not saying good or bad. But I think some people have qualities that we enjoy so much. Clint Eastwood. Yeah, Harrison Ford, terrific actor.

We go to them again and again for a set of qualities that we need from them. They're almost like Greek mythology, right? They personify something that we want. And it can be dark, it can be light, it can be stalwart, it can be hilarious. And then there are people who are in the Joseph Campbell since they're the shapeshifter.

We need iconic performers because they represent something. They distill something for us. And then people who are, I don't even want to say character actors. But it's not them. They're a vessel for a thing that channels something else.

And I have never had any conviction that I could function as anything other than someone who

absorbs things sort of that shamanistic idea of the sucking up of something and finding

“the way to put it through yourself and express something with it, right?”

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like a mother bird. You like go out and eat. And then you can bring it puke it all back into our little house. Yeah, yeah, look at it.

What I enjoy most about it is this kind of the secret key that it represents. It's an excuse to go dive into Pete Seager's world and learn banjo or whatever. It's an excuse to marry in a thing, soak it up, find some way with the writing, whatever, find some way to get something across and sort of inhabit a thing without the consequences of making that your whole life.

And in that sense, it's a joy ride of diverse, weird, strange experiences. The other thing that it does definitely to me is I honest to God, it's not am I good at it. It's at a certain point, you know, I've worked with in this magic trick. Not just the magic trick of acting, but the magic trick of how that interfaces with the larger magic trick of making a film that works or that has something to say or anything.

But the way I like working on it tends to also translate into something that I actually enjoy, which is I don't feel that having done anything well earns me a sense of certainty that I'm going

to do it well on the next one because I'm always like, this one might be the one that I fuck up.

Would I be right to imagine Pete Seeger, right? Like you're just dumping stuff in there and I don't know what those things are, whether you're reading a biography, you're watching video of him or you're learning to play the banjo. And while you're dumping it in there, are you just kind of waiting for the magic collect? Oh, there it is. I often feel something close to a mounting sense of maybe not panic because I've learned to trust myself, but I will often feel a mounting

feeling that I have not cracked it, and that we are getting awfully close to the beginning of the blast off. Yeah, and I do love if and when the moment happens that something slides over into this feeling of the suit fit, I've got it, right? Sometimes I find it's a different mechanism with each thing. Pete for sure one of the things was just his voice, his vocal intonations and the rhythm, and for me the way he spoke and the way he's sung, being thin and Pete's teeth his hair, his things,

the clothes he wore in a weird way, that's like that's the easiest. We don't even have to invent it because we got copious photographs and that's like mechanical almost. Yeah. For me, there's something about the way the man used language and the rhythm of the way he spoke was a part of what made him seem like a druid to other people because he wasn't like their peer. He was this other thing. He was like their druid. In personation is always a challenge or a tricky thing. Yeah.

So what one of your gifts is you're kind of a mimic? I am a good mimic. Yeah, you're like a mimic. So there's that aspect, but I watch a lot of mimic stew things, and there's also now three other layers beyond the mimicry, but yeah, clearly that's just like one of the components. And Kristen can do this very well too from her musical training. She hears voices, music, all of it, in very compartmentalized pieces, she can see each component of it. She can hone in on one little

tiny aspect that's actually defining the whole thing, but that I would miss. It's almost like the

“key to the mimicry, right? I'll go even a little more technical. I think someone who's got a good”

ear like Kristen does pretty much sing anyone. I have noticed that people who are good at that and I've noticed that when I hear someone and I'm going to try to slide into it, I kind of intuitively know what is happening in the air. I know where Owen's voice is. Is it back here or is it up here?

locating. Yeah. Of what part of your face or how? Yeah, yeah. A lot of the way a person sounds has to

do with how rooted they are in their breath or not, whether they're speaking from the forward part, the back. Yeah. And I kind of think people who are good at it may just have who knows why. It's not just the ear because you hear the same thing. Right. It's like an instinct for how to shape the cavern of your mouth. Yeah. That's a great piece and it makes so much sense because right, Kristen learned how to sing through her chest through her head, locating her voice and all these

different areas to get a different outcome and being very aware of that, everything you're talking about, like the machinery of making noise. Yeah. They tried to teach it too like in theater school,

“like I have voice class. I couldn't. I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean put it up here?”

I was like, I can't do that. Maybe it's genetic or something. I will say to the, when I was a kid, I didn't feel particularly interesting, but other people seemed really interesting to me. And if someone was interesting to me or an actor or something, I used to just spend a lot of time imitating people that I thought were interesting. Yeah. Because then you would be interesting, right? In front of a mirror sometimes. Yeah. And I still, when I'm working on Pete,

see, you're, I have certain actor friends who I just trust, who I go all the way back with. Uh-huh. Who I know I can sit in a room and be really goofy and not feel self-conscious. Yeah. Yeah. And I will work and work and work on a thing. I read Pete, my friend, Peter Lewis is a terrific actor. I'll work scenes with someone and someone who go, oh, I heard it and get it wrong and whatever. But I will do a lot of work in front of a mirror. Yeah. Yeah.

I was doing Death to Smoochy with Danny Divido. And I had decided in my own mind who my source was for this character, who wears a cowry shell and a flannel shirt and won't give

sugar to kids and is all these things. And I was doing it. We're on the first couple days of the

movie. And I think I said, my voice is horse right now, but I think I looked at Katherine Keener and I said something like, hang on a second there, Nora, because you know, your horse, if you heard a halt, hungry, angry, lonely tire, that's you. And I'm not getting sucked into your negative energy. And Danny pops up behind the monitor and goes, what is that? And I was like, it's going to come to you. And he was like, what is that? What are you doing? Because I love it, but you know,

it was just Woody Harold. Yeah. Yeah. And I just decided that Sheldon mobs was Woody. It took Danny a couple. He was like, oh my god. Oh my god. Yeah. Sometimes you do things without thinking about them. But when you talk about what is mimicry and you realize it is the interface between ear and actual location of a thing in your body, right? It's like how does Steph Curry hit the shots he hits. There's a lot of muscle training, muscle memory. And also he just perceives the distance

to a degree of perfection that we can't really even imagine in arms. You know, to him, there's a clarity about how far he is from that and it translates into motion. Yeah. It's just unreal. Well, and if he told you how it had happened, neurologists would say that probably can't have.

“I remember that great chapter in Malcolm Gladwell book where it's talking about the great hitters.”

How do they hit? They know the time frame between it leaving the hand before it's crossing the

plate, right? They know that duration. Yeah. And they guys like, oh, I can always tell if they drop

their shoulder and they do blank. It's going to be a fast bar. Because they have to start swinging the second, it's leaving their hand virtually. On belief hitting the majorly fastball is the most astonishing. I don't know what anybody says. That's the single, most incredible interface between the brain and the body in sport. There's a million things that are hard. Like Nordic skiing, everything's hard. Even the F1 guys, I'm not sure anybody's processing information

and making a physical decision to do something virtually impossible. Yeah. It was in blank, that makes sense. Yeah. So what they found was if all the things the batter said were true, they can add that up. They know the duration of the cognition, right? They've measured it in an FMRI. And what they can conclude is none of that stuff's happening. There is not time for him to see the shoulder, compute it to hear, move it to the frontal lobe, move it to the motor control,

make this decision. They know that that's impossible. To its will. The emotional center of their brain fires. That doesn't do any of that computation. That the batter thinks is happening. They get an emotional intuition about that pitch. And the great hitters have a really good emotional intuition. And I bet Steph Curry would explain what's happening. But I bet there's something completely emotional that's happening. That allows him to do that in some weird way.

“That's what we're talking about, too, because at a certain point, anyone who uses their body and their”

voice as an instrument, whether it's mimicking someone or singing, I agree it's emotional. I mean, if I'm imitating someone, honestly, the feeling I have, it's not really analytical. It's joyful. Yeah, it's like an affinity or an empathy. We both know we have to stop ourselves.

sit down here. Yeah, I could do it for six hours. It's so jealous of yours. You're in the top three

“now. My Damon is pretty great. But the joy to sound like somebody you know. I don't know why”

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On SNL, I did the west Anderson horror film. We made a horror film called the midnight

codeary of sinister intruders. Do you know by the way Seth Myers came up with that title. I did text west and say if you did a horror film, what would it be called? And in less than two seconds, he wrote "The Cruelers in the Wispen." Okay, now anyway, back to what is in our Uble despite what it feels like on the inside. You have taken these pre-big breaks between projects. You mean films in terms of... Yeah, the chronological record, the archaeological record would demonstrate

that you've had these breaks. And so when I see you in something and I'll cut right to the invite, which we saw together. We loved it. We loved it so much. I immediately sent you a text. He sent me a voice message. There's a moment in the movie we want to say about that. We just looked at each other right after we were like, "Yeah, what are you gonna do?" He's so good. Yeah, we're like, yeah, was that the thing they made you good? When you said it was like watching

Valentino ride a motorcycle. Yeah, I mean, there is an accomplishment higher than that. No, no, no, yeah, it should be universal. Because I would say it's like Mary Kayn Ashley's

"No, you never do anything." No, I want to make a fashion. Okay, okay. I'm gonna work on it.

But every time I see it, the last time you hear you were promoting the glass onion, and every time you work, I have this exact same thoughts. I go like, "God, why does he do this more?" Secondly, why this? How does one guess what you're going to do? I've never looked at making films or acting as a volume game. For me, it's not selling widgets. And some of my great friends are huge honking movie stars, and they work all the time. It's just the people who may be inspired

me to be an actor or I'm out of myself on. I never looked at them as the ones who were in the volume

“game. I want to do it when something that gets under my skin interests me a lot, and that I think”

gives me a little bit of a tickle of a feeling of I'm not exactly sure how one crushes that, or just how I'm gonna unlock that or if I'm even the right one for it. But I want to say, there's plenty of times I wish more such things showed up. You're not trying not to work. No, I'm not a resistor of a great thing when it comes. But if you like the lay person you're looking on the outside, Birdman, I'm like, "Yeah, of course, that director

calls with that crazy concept." So I'm seeing clearly you're doing that. That makes sense. But then there's some other ones where I'm like, I'm not sure. Was it script-motivated? Was it director-motivated? Was it cast-motivated? Was it conceptually? Like you're saying, like, I just got fucking obsessed with this notion, and I just had it for it. If you had to rank those motivations, are they all equal? It can be very different, I guess. Like a complete unknowns,

probably, director-motivated. Yeah, I loved your mangledy. I got on with him, but actually on that one,

“that was super interesting because I know Timothy. You knew him before the movie?”

Yeah, I knew him before the movie, and I knew he was considering doing that. And I had this feeling in my head that like this might be a bad idea. It's high risk, but it's also a huge personal over-investment in Dylan. Yeah, you moved to New York, and he was the soundtrack. I thought, you know, it was this kind of snotty. Not snotty. It's sacred. It's untouchable. You shouldn't try to like do that. And when Jim brought it up to me, I went through a thing of thinking,

this whole thing could be in advisable. It's great people. Uh-huh. But why would we attempt to be these particular people who are so iconic and everything would get out of it? Happily, Jim, who is an incredibly unpretentious guy, and was the right person to not treat it like a sacred cow. But he also said to me, he was like, you know, I think you got to sometimes you got to really

who don't know a thing about Bob Dylan and don't listen to his music. And he said, and we're in a

time when there's not a lot of artists leaning in the way those young people leaned in to what they saw going on around them that they were not happy about. That they didn't think was right. They took what they had and they leaned in with everything they had. And he said, just an examination of that makes it worth. And I thought, I'm in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's super true for your character. Do we think that's true about Dylan? My lay person's take on Bob Dylan is he's fucking cool.

“And when you try to make him more than just that, I think you're on a fool's errand. I don't think”

he's as smart as everyone thinks or had his overarching political agenda. I think he's a very canny creator of mythology. Yeah. Yeah. But by the way, unapologetically and admittedly and jump by his

famous for saying he was the most apolitical person that I've ever known. The fact that he channeled

what he saw to me, Jim was right, that the collision of the certain group of artists with the times they were living in was a really interesting thing to look at. Absolutely. And then I went, okay, great. You have the right North star for me, then it flipped all the way over into joy, because I got to marinate in things that I love. And that metal lot to me. And I kind of almost I get to give myself permission here to geek out the invite, which I don't want to be hyperbolic. But I

will say it was one of the most pleasurable and creatively invigorating experiences that you've ever had. I put it right with working with Milose Foreman, working with Spike Lee, who I revered and works in a very unique way, working with in your radio on Birdman, the way that

Olivia Wilde ran the process on this film. I'm always hesitant to like unpack a thing before people

see it. We should give full credit. There's a Spanish film called Sentimental. People upstairs. Yeah, yeah. Sentimental and Spanish and then the people upstairs. It was written by this guy named SESKEY who was a playwright and directed this film. And I saw a number of years ago, Sean and I watched it, it put me on the floor. Like I thought was absolutely brilliant. Same premise. A couple from upstairs comes down to have cocktails with the couple downstairs and all kinds of things in suit. Right.

Yeah. The actors were hysterical and brilliant. And I immediately thought to myself, I would love to remake this. Yeah. And I thought to myself, I'm going to call SESKEY or Karel and I'm going to be the guy upstairs. And I'm going to direct it. And I'm not even going to change much. And I thought to myself, we could shoot this in 15 days. And I went and try to get the rights and they had been picked up by someone already. Oh, wow. And I called that producer and I said,

here's your point. Like, hey, I would throw my hat in the ring to direct it and be in it. And he said,

“I think I'm going to go another way. Oh, wow. Like literally like when some other directors”

who worked on it for a bit, tried to put it together with a cast. And this one did not go by me for a couple years. I went, ah, I was like the girl that got away. Oh, yeah. I want. I really wanted to do that one. Well, so they how did Olivia come and attach to direct it? Who whatever weird flow of things I end up getting a text from Seth, my wife produced a lot of Seth's movies and I've known Seth forever. You're in sausage part. I've done sausage party with him.

And he said, do you know about the invite? I didn't know the title. I was like, no, and he said, Olivia Wilde is going to do it. Should we do this? I was like, wait, we're not talking about the same. The people of Serenity. And I talked to Olivia and she goes, would you really do this? And I was like, I've been wanting to do this for a couple years. Serendipity. I did get this feeling of like, I'll be damned. The currents of the stream brought it back around. And I got to it. I love

Olivia's two films. Yeah. I love books, Mark. I love. Don't worry, darling. Yeah, just great science. Thank you,

“darling. Sorry. That's what Dax kept calling it. Thank you, darling. Who will be?”

Sorry. Okay. Well, that kept fucking off the title. I'm bona fide cheerleader for her. I saw books. My. I was like, this is a fucking great movie. Sure, but also this is a genre of movies that I don't want to say it's easy to make good, but there's something inherently enjoyable about coming of age movie, but then I saw. Don't worry, darling. And I was like, this is a big undertaking. The production design of that movie. Yes, it's sane. And the story they're telling how abstract

is and will that work? They just disappear. Like, there's a lot of shit. But then it turns out it's real science fiction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just was like, wow, she's fucking awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really, really good. No, what's interesting is none of the three are the same. They're also uniquely their own thing. I will say I watched it with Seth Sundance and he turned to me and goes, I don't know if I'm going to be in a better movie than that.

Really, I just feeling I watched it. I knew Mike Nichols, one of our greatest film directors.

New Yorker and so funny, so dry, so brilliant, such great storyteller, but also great with advice.

“And for people who don't know, he directed, well, first he was in this comedy duo that was impossible”

in groundbreaking. Yeah. And then he became a director of theater and everything he touched turned to go. And then he went into cinema and he did Virginia Wolf first out of the gate and that was for the movie, Virginia Wolf. Second movie, the graduate. Yeah. Third movie, Carnal knowledge is impossibly talented. Also smoking crack during lots of it addicted to Hellseum and fucking up his findings. Yeah. That was later married to Diane. So I mean, this dude was juggling a lot of

shit fucking L.O.P. She came over on a ship at eight years old. I love her. There's a biography on her.

Yeah. Incredible biography. Have you read it? Yes. Mark Harris is right. I don't want to know.

Yeah. So anyway, this dude's a legend. So the fact that you knew him is kind of wild. I watched the film and thought either Mike Nichols came back from the grave and channeled himself through

“Olivia or he's just smiling somewhere because I really thought she's done something with this film”

that was what I loved about, which is like hit the high on the low. It's as funny as you could want a movie to be, but then it really gets down into the real shit. I'm going to add an element. Yeah. There's like a good deal of sexuality in the film with a lot of confidence and not shine away from things. So like the moment, Monica will tell you, I embarrassed her so much. Oh, it was so embarrassing. Yeah. We're in a screen yet to sew a house with like a bunch of journalists.

Some people probably know who we are. When Penelope invites him into the room, I, without my permission, let out this crazy noise. Like, God, a roll. I go like, oh, yeah. Like, I was like, yes, let's fucking go to that room forever. That moment's not necessarily easy to go get on film. No. That's a moment dude. We're like, I can't help, but go, yes, out loud, please. Well, Penelope. I mean, it might be easy. Any time she invites anyone,

she makes it easy. Yes. Yes. But it's constructed in a way. And it's the right shot. And sets React. I mean, all of it. You're just like, oh, fuck. Like, what? You know, it's just like a powerful moment. So that's in the mix, too. Oh, yeah. When we made Birdman, I had moments where I was watching Alejandro and Chivo Lubetsky, the great cinematographer who had known each other since college. They went to college together. And there was times that they were

working out those long shots. And sometimes Alejandro would have his hands on Chivo's shoulders and his face by his ear. They would move together with him whispering and they would say funny things to each other and be laughing. And I thought these guys are in the zone. There's some mates. They're having fun, but they're in a flow state. And sometimes you're watching someone else in a flow state. Yeah. I remember me telling him that they would link arms and walk with each other around the

set sometimes for hours. Yeah. It was beautiful. I felt Olivia Wilde was in a kind of a flow state making this because it brought together for her. Not only everything, she loves and is most interested in, but that played to a lot of what I even think she is an actress. And as a human being hasn't even necessarily gotten fully expressed, it's hard to overstate. You know, well, I do too. The mind you're

“in directing and the state you have to be enacting are in direct opposition to each other. And she”

gives this performance in the film that's worthy of generalans or Diane Keaton that they're very, very best. Yeah. Full of anxiety and longing and physical comedy and anger. There's so much going on in it. And yet she directed us and she directed this compositionally beautiful film.

It's all in one apartment and never gets dull. She's guiding us collectively on how to find this thing

on the fly and even saying things to us like we're going to stitch the parachute on the way down, but it's going to open. And by that, I mean, she not only encouraged, but actually kind of asked of us that we create our own characters. In many dimensions, Penelope's character wasn't Spanish, Penelope brought in her interest in menopause and hormones and the Esther Perrell of it all. Yeah. Bring that all in and creates this character, Pina, that is so striking and so dynamic and

forceful and aspirational. And Olivia said to me, like my character's name is very specific to a friend of mine is story. There's a lot of things that my friend Julian Sands, the actor who died a few years ago, the stuff about the rugs and the carpets. Those were things he said to me when he walked into my apartment one time. And it wasn't just that Olivia didn't tighten up. It was that she did something

I've never done, which is she shot the film in page order. Right. And basically said, I don't think we're

going to end up in the same place that's on the page. I think we're going to end up in a deeper place,

these beats. But if we do them in order, each one will feed into the next and we will keep discovering

“how much this can bear as we go. Now that all sounds super creatively sexy, but when you're making a film”

and hundreds of people are standing around and you're saying as a director, we're going to kind of make this up as we go. And I mean really make it up as we go to stay in a state of not just equanimity, but one in which you're relishing it so much that you're giving that performance. While allowing for that much uncertainty, it is like right up there with the most impressive things that I've seen a director do. I will throw it out and say, in 30 years making films,

I haven't experienced a director investing trust in the cast at this level ever. Yes, to me the ultimate signal of her competence is that takes so much confidence to let everyone be so collaborative. It's beautiful as that sounds on the outside. Like yeah, be great if every, no it's not great if every actor has an opinion. They don't have an understanding of the global story that's being told.

“It's not just good to let actor. That's why we have writers and why we have directors. So to trust”

into encourage that and not have any fear that I'm going to lose complete control because ultimately does have to be the director's vision. The fact that she was able to stay confident and not

rattled and that encouraging to me is like it's always impossible. No, almost impossible. I agree and

she won for it. It all works. You can only imagine the freak out that was going on in the margin. Can't imagine if I was paying for the movie. Exactly, especially when Seth and Olivia in particular, they became convinced that the end of the film should drop into a frequency that was not entirely light. The decision to actually let it go there on Olivia's part. But then on the fly to figure out the mechanisms of how to get out of a lot of hijinks and a lot of laughter and a lot of everything

and over into a place where this film goes is mechanistically actually tricky. And one of the more amazing things the directors ever asked of me, but trusted me. And she basically said, "I sort of think that maybe something between you and Seth has to uncork." I kind of think, we need a hinge. Let me brag for you. So the movie is great beginning to end. It's so entertaining and it's so funny and it is touching on someone. Anyone who's been in a long-term relationship,

you're going to recognize everything, right? Is it like your partner becomes the explanation for everything you don't like about living? Unfortunately. If there's a single scene that makes the whole movie work, it is your turn. You've presented as this guy. We don't really know you just seem really confident and open-minded and then to find out where that really came from was a real moment that had the ability to anchor the entire movie. You're waiting for a big turn

or as you say uncorking or something and it's definitely that monologue. That thing ends and you're like, "Whoa, I'm kind of fucked up over that." And she told us that you did not share it with her beforehand to get a real reaction and very generously had them film their side first. Are multiple cameras or something? Well, Seth and her, you gotta get it, yeah, yeah. She was puzzling over how do we get through this gateway? I can't remember exactly what the conversations

were that led to it. But I'll always do what we all learn to do in acting classes and I'll always

“write out for myself something that I think is the secret, whether it's in the movie or not. I'll always”

write out my own deeper idea of someone's backstory. Most of the times that doesn't make it into anything. Interestingly, like we talked about a completely unknown, I had found this thing that Pete Seager wrote about believing that the world is like a teaspoon brigade. And when we got to this final scene with him and Dylan in the end and Jim wasn't happy with it. I said, "Jim, I found this thing, I've been carrying this thing like my mantra and he goes, "That's the scene." So it's that's

in the film. Sometimes that happens. In this case, I said to Olivia, "I have this idea about what happened with him." She goes, "Is it good? We can get us there?" And I said, "I think it is." Yeah. And I remember, I think I said to her at one point, I was like, "I can say this that if I say it to myself, I'm gonna lose. I can't get through it myself without being moved by it." Right? Yeah. And she was like, "Don't tell me what it is." And she set up on her and Seth so that she could film

them hearing it for the first time. In the movie, her reaction is her hearing it for the first time,

said, "I want to film myself hearing it the first time." I'll be the test strip. I can't really

come up with a way in which a director could give me more trust, respect, ever. But she was so smart to do it. She cast you, Seth. People who aren't only great actors, but great story to

“directors. People who do know that you need to pay off at the end that it's not just like,”

"You know you're at the end of the second act. I don't know that a lot of actors know they're at the end of the second act." I want to say it's like, "I want to ruin it or get people's heads to watch it." But so much then, on court, Seth's reaction, Seth, who had not heard it either. Seth, I think very much respects me and we've done many things together and he loves

everything. I know for sure that when I first did it, Seth thought it's too long and too serious.

By the way, that's exactly what his character would be. His reaction that unbelievably rude thing that he says to me, he made up on the spot. I think it was one of the funniest improvisation. Well, it's so real. When you're a dude and another dude just got attention from the ladies from being vulnerable, you're like, "Fuck this dude." But it's so magnificently rude that I had to

“turn around because it put me on the floor. It's a special moment. But I think there isn't”

a shot of me bursting out laughing because you just can't believe anybody would be that big a tool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was so good that it pinballed into Penelope. Her reaction to his reaction became a thing that leads to a fight between us. And none of this was anything we had planned for you. None of it. And I think that the fact that Olivia just sat there letting these things cascade off of each other was so unprecedented to me. What's theater rehearsal? And we had all set

the four of us, plus with Will McCormick and Rashida Jones, who are great writers and great interpolators of we had the Spanish film, they have the four of us, and we're queezinarding this all together. And I honestly think everybody else was more anxious about the uncertainties than Olivia, which is a bizarre inversion. Not really. You want to look at your leader and go, "Oh, they know exactly what they want." That feels safer. But if they're like, "I'm open to be

surprised." Yes, but when you've been doing it as long as you've been doing it, you know that there's consequence to something you're supposed to get done in a certain number of days. And there's people standing around with a certain measure of, "Do these guys know what they're doing?" To operate as a director, to say to everybody involved, this parachute is going to open.

It's powerful. It's amazing. All my respect to her. And then in the end, she just edited and put

together this. That's so good. It's so good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me about your friends with Esther Perrell, yeah. You and Sean, I know Sean has been like on vacation with her. I was talking at a conference that Esther was talking at as well. And there was like social time. And you know what's the funniest thing? I'm sure like all of us. Even as I was sort of star-struck and thrilled and turned on. Yeah, yeah, she's so sexy. She is such a force. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so vibrant and alive and everything she says about, you know, so what is erotic. Esther, you know, but it's the funniest thing to both be thrilled to be meeting and talking to someone and to have this voice in your head that goes, if we proceed down this path, she can't be my therapist. Like, I was like, yeah, I'm sacrificing the chance to have her as a therapist. Like, well, now you can do any of your characters and you can call in to a mating and captive. Yeah,

as one of your characters. You've had her on here. Oh, I adore her. She's just so provocative. Yes, because she's honest. I was at a thing where she was speaking and it was some texting and too many people were talking about AI and all these things. And Esther gets up and goes, all this talk about AI and no one's talking about the AI that matters in tech, which is

“artificial intimacy. And she just goes on this terror. I'm a super fan of hers. And honestly,”

you know what's funny is like, there comes a point. I think Penelope said this and I really agree it's sort of what you were getting at. It's not that you're not trying to prove anything anymore, but at a certain point in this kind of work, I find a lot of satisfaction, not only in watching other people like watching Olivia be in flow state is so great. You're like, I'm here to serve, whatever you need. But this other thing happens to which Penelope, I think affected

which is, you get to take the world and what you've taken out of it and you get to like, pull it into the work and kind of communicate it in another way. There are people who don't know who Mary Claire here for is. There are people who don't know who Esther is. Like, if you see the

Oh, it's very. And this way, and I think that's really cool. It's just occurring to me now. I

“didn't have this feeling when I left, but I'm now having this thought, which is the only thing”

the movie maybe didn't do. And I want to know what the conversations were like among the four of you. So your neighbors from upstairs Penelope and you, sorry, you're the neighbor. They're in this very progressive sexual arrangement. They go to orgies. They're out there. They're communicating about it. What kind of conversations we're going on about that? About open alley. Yeah, open relationships. Like, I guess I was curious if the position at all or if I was even talked about

it's like, do the neighbors upstairs have a viable thing? Do we buy that it's going to work out? What do we think about though? Was this being discussed? You also have four cast members with different like assessment, the same growths entire life. I think it was Olivia told us some about he was like, what do you mean? Someone doesn't have sex every week or something that was revealing it? They are fine. No, I think at the time either Olivia or Rashida turned and was like,

you're the only person here with how children. How well there's others that. And then there's just nature. What they were fighting to? I think he said something like, who would ever speak this way? Exactly. Who would ever be in a relationship like this? I think people were like, yeah, a lot of us. A 90% of relationships. Yeah. But did you guys discuss that much or no? You just take it at face value? I think one of the things that was discussed and then and I think especially by

Penelope, very successfully laced very subtly through is how new it is that they've only been together for a year and you can see how thrilled he is about it. Yeah. Yeah. You can see in her very subtle commentary that like she knows that it's easy because it's early. She's not naive and I think it's funny when you do this kind of stuff because the rehearsal such as it was was just six people sitting around a table before us and Will and Rashida. And probably going, how much

am I going to reveal about my own relationship? By the way, Olivia, again, you know, like the general

who says I'll never ask of anyone something I won't do myself. She's just like plowed in.

She was just in the bubble with the six of us. Let's be real because if we can be real here and all of us throw it against the board together, let's look at what ends up on the board and we go, Ooh, that should be in there. But then when you go home that night to Shana, she like, I need you to be done with this movie. Like all the biggest thing you've already done with the man. Honestly, Shana was the one who said when we saw the first Spanish film, she was like,

“you have to do that and you're going to do that. She's just the cool. She's going to happen.”

She cast Seth in his first film. Yeah, literally. And I think I love doing a film with Seth. He's so good. There's such a reputation around Seth because of house plant and he smokes

weed and aha Seth probably has the most incredible work ethic of anybody I know. He works.

Yeah, yeah. So hard. What's the writing? I mean, that's the guy. I mean, if something's not working, the computer comes up and he sits down and he's quiet. He's really thousands of things. Works and works and works. Yes. He's the best improviser imaginable and he'll make up a line like next time you're in there, check the rings on the older partner. It's just stuff to put you on the foot. But you also realize that actually

there's a white piece of paper sitting over on the side that's full of his brainstorming and his lines and what feels like improvisation often is but is often the mind of a it's a role. Yeah. Whether are you writing in this moment or are you writing 30 seconds before you're in the 80s? Yeah, that guy is a absolute machine. Well, no, the studio just for he's also like in a file. Yeah. He's like an encyclopedic film. But on top of everything else. In this, for me, and I think

Sean are watching it. It was like the studio wasn't enough. If you ever needed more proof, he is such a mature, real, deep wounded human being in this film. There's pain, there's sourness, there's anger, not inflected by comedy. I think of things like Kramer versus Kramer or Richard Dreyfus in the Goodbye Girl. I loved watching him work. Yeah. And his gear. Like, I love my boys all grown up. Yeah. Yeah, I loved I love his

den mogul. He's a fucking literal mogul. I do think there's some colors and some depth.

“Olivia got him to go some places. Don't you think that you should see this movie with another”

couple? Like, if you're in a relationship, I feel like this is a double date. You should go with another couple. And then you should go after. I go straight through the red book. Go have a real discussion in a light dinner. Stay tuned for our share expert. If you dare.

I know. One of the most provocative. I've never had better conversations with other couples.

Uh-huh. After that film. Yeah. People don't know as an avalanche is coming and he gets up and pushes his own family out the way. Yeah. He runs in runs. Yeah. And then everyone's fine. The avalanche is like, it's just can't see him the same. Yeah. Everyone survives. And he has to just be

“with his family. Yeah. And now thinks he's a coward. And remember it, a lunch of a couple of couples”

after we saw that film. And we went around the table. And literally, one lady said, I thought the whole thing was a little bit like, what's the big deal? Like, what it really pinwheeled like this. And we were all like, wait. So if this happened, she'd be like, I'd roll my eyes. It came around to me. And I was like, if I did that, I would just keep running. Yeah. Whatever turned to me. I would never return to type of new family. Because there would be no. There would be no recovery. Yeah. Yeah.

With my wife. And strikes our deepest fear that maybe we will be that way in the situation. Because you don't know until the avalanche comes. You think you know, like Mike Tyson, you have a game plan to. I don't know. I can stop the avalanche of it on a few avalanche situations. So I found out. But yes, we all think will be one way. Dax is just lucky that all three of the girls in his family can fit inside him. They would have to be survive in the frozen. The coffee shell of his

enormity. Now, this goes back to my original thing. The thing I left out about my overarching theories on you, I was thinking, maybe meeting Richard Geer on that first movie and having him and I don't know if he was or not. I know you have his apartment. So I'm imagine you guys were close. But if he was a mentor at all, he too was a guy who had a real healthy grasp on the career. Was the inventory guy do you or no? Richard was great to me. He was kind. He was supportive. He

levitated me. I still see him. And we have enormous affection for each other just because of that experience. Yeah. And I ended up living in a place that he built and kept at the same. Yeah, there's some weird. We have some connection. We have commonalities and connections. And we have this often distant. But some spool thread, a memory I loved with him was that I was so totally unsure whether that was a fluke and was going to be the last gig I ever did while we were doing it.

“That back in those days, I think you got either $50 or $75 a day per DM. And I was taking that”

and putting it in an envelope and literally keeping it under the mattress at my crappy little efficiency apartment that I had. You know, the sunset marquee. And at some point, Richard's this phenomenal guitar player and every day in his trailer he had a different amazing guitar and I love guitars and I was playing he had a ridiculous guitar collection. It was later sold at Sotheby's for millions and millions of dollars. Wow. Probably one of the biggest private guitar

collections in the world at the time and he said, "What do you got?" I said, "No, I'm anything." You know, and he was like, "What?" But we're going guitar shopping. He took me this place called voltage guitars off sunset. And I found this 1969 Martin D35 from the year I was born and it

worked and I looked at it and I always remember it was $1395. And that was even considerable to me.

At the time, and Richard, he was like, "I like that." He goes, "That's the one." And I was like, "Oh, man, I can't do that." And he goes, "Are you taking your per DM and keeping it in an envelope?" And I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "I'm going to buy this. You're going to bring me that envelope of cash tomorrow and give it to me." Because you only live once and he was like, "You're going to get this guitar." And it sounds silly, it sounds materialistic and everything. It was a nice thing.

It was like him saying, "Hey, you're going to be fine." Trust yourself. He said something to me like, "This won't be your last gig." Also, he was like, "What are you saving it for? Rem money? Get this thing." There's going to be a lot of joy in it. It's my favorite guitar I've ever bought, still. And I look at it and I'm like, "He launched me into something."

“Yeah, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. He said that phase of your life is over.”

Yeah. Walking into your new phase and walk with your shoulders back. Yeah, I love that. This new phase has abundance. Okay, my last question. This started with interviewing Gabor Monte. I was walking him out. He's an expert on ADHD. I'm walking to Numa's car. And he said, "If you ever been tested for ADHD?" And I just was like, "Well, that's an interesting question

for an ADHD expert to ask." Did he say what qualities in you? He didn't. He just asked,

"Have you been diagnosed with ADHD?" And I said, "No, I never have."

You weren't like a riddle-in kid, you didn't? I wasn't on riddle-in either. But then I have since been inundated with the ADHD algorithm on Instagram. And we've now had a couple of ADHD experts on. And I have not been formally diagnosed, but I am certain he was dead right to ask that question. And so I have really kind of embraced it. I kind of did it. I like thinking about the deficits,

things I need to work on that are standard for ADHD. And then these super gifts I get from it,

and occurred to me, do you think your neurodivergent at all?

“Not in a claimable, nameable way. This is a pet peeve. I may not be right about this.”

But I feel like Silicon Valley has done a lot of cool things and a lot of really negative things to our society. One of the ones that I find kind of aggravating is what I would call the romanticization

of the idea of being on the spectrum. Yeah. Yeah. You get all these people who are just basically

assholes wanting to credit that to them being on the spectrum. It's like you're not on the spectrum, shut up, stop it. Don't casually try to claim as a superpower. A thing that for a lot of people is a real thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm on your side about this. I express that opinion a lot. Yeah, yeah. And also I think there's a problem with just pathologizing. I'll get to the end road, which is like, yeah, to me, they're not actually pathologies. They are words we invented like

25 years ago. We added them to the disease. I mean, we're acting like it means bipedal. Like it's a real thing we could measure in observe. I don't think it's that. I think we're getting more and more good at recognizing patterns of behavior in humans. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be a pathology or anism or some kind of disease. But I do think it's true that there are a lot of different patterns of human behavior. And when people express these certain patterns, we can kind of predict

some of the pitfalls ahead for them and predict probably some of the things that will come easy at them. And it's like, that's all okay to just go like, I trend towards this. And yeah, that makes sense. And it's like, I don't need treatment. I'm not making excuses for anything.

“I just like, oh, I think I'm in this pattern of people. I tend to agree. That's how I describe”

myself. I wouldn't even go near calling myself neurodivergent at all, watching something like love on the spectrum. The most beautiful, wonderful show. Yeah. I love it. I love the celebration of it. I love that while both observing people with real divergence, real conditions, whatever, just saying the universality of love, of relationships. Yeah. It's just so great. When I hear someone like the one guy named Dylan who he'll say things and he just says, per se, a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For the next

week, my family was like, shut up, not for saying, saying per se, it was funny the first five times. You have the mimic thing, but you also have some savant like qualities. I watched you recite the

Walt Whitman poem, um, cobert. Yes, which is incredible. Oh, thanks. Very low percentage of the population

can do something like that. That's a funny observation. Oh, the personalized it really is. I'm friends with Phineas now. Do you know Phineas, Billy Isher's brother? Yeah. He's one of the most special guys in the world. He would fall in love with him. He's 28. And I'm like, how's this guy not 51? He's definitely 51, maybe 58. He's heavily wiser than me. He's smarter. I'll bring up a thing and he'll just go like, oh, yeah, that was October 20th. And I go, uh, and you know people can't

do that, right? People don't know what they, you did mundane things on. We just had Jack McBrayer on, oh, my god. He can name the day. Yeah, anything that happens. I go, yeah, I'm tough. Again, not to path the holidays at, but I saw on 60 minutes that people who's super memory are also really high trending for OCD and they all had really organized closets. So I say to Jack McBrayer, with this, he's displaying this impossible memory. And I said, what's your closet look like?

“I think it was, oh my god, you would love it. It's a dream. Everything's color coordinate, right?”

It's like, yeah, that's a pattern of human behavior that's fascinating. You had someone talking about obsessive compulsive disorder and how poorly people understand what it really even means. I thought that was great because I think OCD is another thing, lots of people just like to say, I'm a neat freak. Yeah, I'm a neat freak. Yeah, et cetera. I think there is an interesting connection between hyper-retentive memory, which I definitely have. But by the way, so does my dad.

I don't want to credit it as something. I have a very strong and precise memory to the point where I can say most of the lines of the movies I've been in. Right. And if I watch a film with a lot of focus, if there's a film I loved and I've watched it with focus, I have a lot of it locked in.

The thing I've been interested in, to your point, never tested for in any way is, I know for sure

with me, a photographic memory is a idetic. I think it's called being a idetic. With me, it's completely auditory. If I hear something with focus, music or words, I have it, or I pretty close to have it. When I learn lines, I learn them by saying them out loud. Once I've said them out loud, I pretty much got it. There's an interesting connection for me between the auditory and the memory retention. Now, I want to imagine that could create tension in

relationships. I have it to a lesser degree, they could, but I only have things as right. I don't have a degree to which you have it, but I also have a very high degree as well. You're arguing with your wife and you're like, yeah, we weren't at the grocery. It's kind of maddening and then you have to really zoom back and go like, all right, we're not arguing about

about an emotion she has that I have the ability to potentially alleviate or help. But I have to step

over a lot of, no, we weren't even in Michigan when that, you know, you know, she wrote. No, memory. Yes. Listen to what I'm hearing. Here's the spectrum. She's on the far left. I'm like two thirds in you're at the far right. Sean, if you're listening, you know what's great about that, is that Kristen acknowledges that she has. No, okay. But if you had to learn, I've had to learn all right. That's not what's important right now when we're talking. The impulse to correct

because your brain says, that's asynchronous with what I know to be my memory of the truth. But in the invite, the thing that Penelope says that was provoked by sets improvisation, right? Uh-huh. Let's think, which is Penelope and I have known each other a long time and Penelope and Samahaya,

kind of we all go way back. And the thing where I correct her English, oh yeah Penelope and I had

talked about in her life and relationships. And when she did, I was like, what if we put that in? Like, you know what I mean? We put that in. I love the moment where I correct her. Yes. And step into such deep mind field. Yeah. The look under her face, didn't your whole body go. Oh, she's done it. Yeah, yeah. But back to the question you want to answer.

“Yeah, have you had to learn to go? Oh, that's not what's important right now. I think that takes”

some practice. Sure. Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, my father was a litigator. My father was a U.S. attorney. I grew up sitting in the back of courtrooms, listening to my dad cross-examine and dissect people. And I'm really good at it. Yeah. Yeah. So someone who doesn't just think, but does

remember things perfectly? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come on with the litigators, things awful. Yeah.

Esther is definitely given me some tips. How to function more peacefully in your life? I think kids helped teach you that really well. For sure. Yours and mine are moving into teen. I do need to say this out. A lot of we probably already have but it's probably like one of the cutest things that's ever happened to us is we either you invited us to lunch or we invite you to lunch at this vegan restaurant. And we've both hidden our ultrasound photos in our our menu. Yeah. That's impossible.

Yeah. And to announce to each other the same due date. Yeah. Same due date. That was an out of body experience. And let's remind people that Sean had introduced you in Kristen. Yes, right. That's you guys up. Yeah. So we felt invested in you guys. Yeah. You put the ultrasound in the menu.

“And you said, you know, we really like this place. And I think we're going to have this”

and you turned it around. And we went, oh, that's funny. We're ordering three turned ours around. And you know, I'm not even sure to have a cream. I remember you going, yo, you were like, fucking kidding me. Yeah. It feels like December. But then remember we looked at the due date and the due dates were the same. Yeah. That was another world-lead occurrence that happened. I think so much that you and I just wanted to go out and get a burger. Yeah. Yeah. We were like,

fuck out of this vegan restaurant. We're like, let's get a burger and I was like, children on the way. When I think about things that like, I know you've talked about this like, you're dad down to you. And I don't know if the cultural shift or psychological shift or whatever. But I do feel this thing that's really been landing for me lately is the thing you can do for a kid is actually just model for them. What it looks like to be an adult who listens,

who asks a lot of questions and it has control of their own emotions. If not, there's no boundaries not anything. But that whole idea of just modeling more than telling is revelatory to me. We grew up in a generation. It's like the parents were saying one thing and you were observing them actually doing the opposite as they were telling you. And it just didn't mean anything. Yeah. It's really wild. But it all circles back to some of what we're talking about about creativity,

about a great process with Olivia. And Olivia and Seth and me and Olivia have all been doing

“this a pretty long time. And one of the things I think maybe allowed that to work like that was”

getting this place where you go, I'm going to make myself available. I'm not going to come in with a previous position. And I'm not going to try to over control or direct with my determinations or my instincts or my certainties. The way this is going to go and that the later I hold in the more available, I make myself to something someone else says or to, okay, that's not what I thought was coming. But what do I do with what came in a weird way to happier you are?

This is like aging, right? I'm young and I read the fountainhead and I'm like, yeah, I want to be like Howard work. Just whatever opinion I have, I want to believe in it. I don't care what anyone says and I'm going to execute. And that was so appealing as a young man. And that was an older man

Humility is like the most powerful, crazy thing. It's not appealing when you're a young man.

“But I think as you get older, it gets more and more appealing. And like all you're saying about”

that process is you're like you walk in with the humility that maybe someone else has a better grasp of this or maybe someone else has a different angle that's also valid that might be more interesting or even that none of you know and that the collision is going to reveal that the uncertainty is a state in which something interesting and true might happen and that if it does and you make yourself available to it, all these other things will rise up that are better than your

predispositions toward something. It's all sounds corny but what you're describing is youthful creativity is often a flex. When you're trying to define yourself and maybe if you're lucky and you get to keep being creative you get to the place where it's more discovery than it is flex. Yeah you said something that's really beautiful and profound and it is that you were kind of asked about happiness. I can't

remember the specifics of the question but you're basically like I try not to actually think about

or pursue happiness and more interested in just expansion. I would replace happiness with expansion

“and I would replace sadness or unhappiness with constriction. And I think those are great things”

to swap out. When you're younger too it's in some weird way you feel like if someone has different ideas it feels like you're not getting an A on your homework and you end up probably with more people who you leave each other feeling a little bruised instead of leaving each other feeling like you lifted each other higher. You both went somewhere you had not been before. It's nice to arrive in that place for sure. Yeah you don't have much of an ego. I've noticed that over all the

times we've had you especially for someone is talented and could walk around with like I have

the answers because you've proven to in a lot of spaces and you're doing all these other cool things like the barge you could but you don't walk in with that air which is very impressive I will say it doesn't appear you have much of an ego anyway. It's hard not to have a nuts humility but

“I think the scale of what's taking place in the world right now the scale of the challenges”

the scale of the assault of the you know the awareness and information about cataclysm and violence and brutal and every corner. I think we're in a very brutal age right now. We're overwhelmed. Sure. In me it sounds really trait but it's like how can you have Gaza being live streamed and then get off on your achievements? Yeah self-important. You know what I mean? But also you see the Gaza thing and then you swipe up and then it's a guy jumping an old car over a river

and then you're laughing and then you go to the next page and it's like some art felt reunion with the salt and then I got I mean the ride you're on is insane for your nervous. It's so scary. I often rely on the things you said me about someone in a powerboat and something stupid. I'm curating that for you. So there we go to bed on that for the rape and keep them coming up. Well Edward this has been lovely the invite is fucking phenomenal I hope it takes the world by storm you guys

are also good again I'll just repeat it it's Valentino on a motorcycle watching that we're doing this monologue. Dave movie of the summer. Yeah could end in a lot of different ways. So June 26 everyone check out the invite. I adore you and I can't wait to do it again. Love it. Stay tuned for the fact check. It's been parties out. Last banter for the summer last banter a careful little girl. I know you think you're out for

school. Listen my arms I woke up this morning and I was like why am I sore? Oh yeah something happened in the night. What happened? I tried to lift you up yesterday. Oh my god your arms are sore from that. Yes. Oh no that's not a great sign. I know. Wow. I know. What if that's your new workout routine? You had to try to lift me up three times. I mean that's easy that only. It only took only took a couple of days. Yeah it was a quick workout to get the burn the next day. It was. I do not say this

in a boo-hoo way. Now we're not going to complain. I'm not complaining. I'm just going to say that we have been trucking through but yesterday we finished and I was getting out of the hot tub and I kept like my eye was getting blurry on the right side and I kept going like why is my eye blurry on the right side and I would wipe it out. I would wipe it and then it would get like kind of better. I'm like I'm going to go upstairs and look in the magnifying mirror and so I went and

looked in the magnifying mirror and when I pulled my eye lid down. Monica there was this dye in there

Yeah. Edamame pee. Yeah. It was edamame pee. I don't know how I wasn't feeling it and it was just hemorrhaging. It was nasty. It was just. Yeah I know it's terrible to say. Yeah no one wants to hear about that. It's terrible but I was like oh this is well that's a sign. It's a sign. That's a sign. I'm just so curious why stiser such a direct stress related.

Not for me. I've never heard of a girl. Do you get them all? No. Not really. Look at you guys.

We don't get stars. My mom used to say I remember when she was a kid she would have to get her's lance. They'd be like a big ordeal and she is famous for saying if she just sees somebody with a stice she'll get one. That seems curious. We don't call Laura a liar but I'm not going to car any way. But we must acknowledge. She is much us. She exaggerates. Listen speaking of a bunch of us. Okay. We weren't speaking of a bunch of us. We were right. You just go a bunch of us.

Speaking of a bunch of us. No I didn't. She has it. I was kidding. Yeah. Don't hear me. I watched that doc last night. Oh you did. Yeah. Okay. What's it called mother? It's called maternal instinct. I think that's it. It's a horrible name and a horrible name. Guys like I hate to say watch it but I think like watch it. Even though it's disturbing. It's so disturbing. It is. You know what I liked about it? It was short. Of course. I liked that about it. Yeah. You know that's

the first criteria. Yeah. The short of the better. Are you excited? Like the moment I normally feel screwed? Are you excited? Like you'll be watching a show. It's a comedy. So generally the episodes are going to be like 30 minutes. And then you turn on the episode and you see it's like 19 or 20 minutes. And you're like, I'm like, fuck you. You can't give me an 18 minute episode. Are you like, oh, this is going to be a good one. Like, it's like three minutes too long. Okay 15 is ideal.

“No, I must love short content. Maybe that's what's happening. No, I like a full size show or movie.”

But if it's a 20, something minute show, like nobody wants this has short episodes. And I like that because then I can just keep going. Okay. I can watch it all in one one sitting, which I enjoy doing. Yeah, which is I've been meaning to bring something up for a while all year. Okay. Not all year, a couple months. Okay. Have you noticed it been wearing this necklace a lot? Uh-huh. Yeah. For the listener, it is a gold necklace. It has like, they look like rice shapes. They do.

They're diamond in a diamond shape. Right shape. There's 11 of them. This necklace was sent to me. It is called an 11 11 necklace. Oh, and someone gifted that to you. Love 11 11. Yes, because I'm obsessed with 11 11 and it stands for 11 wishes. So I don't really have to look out for 11 11 anymore because I already have it at all time. So did you model how many years

“left do you have on planet earth and try to figure out what your schedule for wishes will be?”

If you have 11, let's say you have 60 years left, that would be one every six years.

No, I didn't do that. If you had 66 years. This just means I always have wishes.

Okay. So you're just not using them. You're kind of stockpile and waiting for emergency. No, it's like this whole thing represents abundant wishes. Not 11. Like it just, it's just, it's just like good luck. Okay. You know, it's good luck. And the jeweler is called Devon Wood Hill Jewelry. Okay. And I really love it. It's very dainty, which I like dainty jewelry. And you're just walking around with good luck. And if you felt like your luck is improved since you

started wearing it. Yeah. Yeah, big time. Yeah, a lot of great luck. I still look at, I still

“just see 11 11 all the time. It's so cool. But now how do you feel since you don't need it anymore?”

I still love it. You still love it. Okay. And I feel like this necklace and an arrow over. It doesn't. It just adds, it didn't end. It adds. Okay. Now, if you had 11 wishes, what would be your approach? My strategy. Yeah. Because I might think, okay, I have 50 years left. Uh-huh. So I get to use one every nine years or whatever it would be. But I'm a, I'm a hoarder by nature. Right.

Like, you know, you get points when you use your American Express. Yeah. I've never spent a single one of

the points. It drives everyone in my life crazy. Yeah. Um, and I'm just like, yeah, if I have no other

first time used points. You did. Absolutely not American Express. I used Delta miles. Okay. And was it,

did you get a free ticket out of it? Uh-huh. Yeah. I've had a little bit of a well-meaning experience. It's not Delta specifically. But when I've tried to cash in airline points, I remember back in the day when I traveled nonstop for car shows. And I had a lot of points. And they told you, like, oh, yeah, 20,000 points. You get a flight. Well, every single time I ever tried to book a flight, it was like, oh, it was black out. So it's really 40,000 or it's 60,000.

And a couple of times I use them. It was like, it was five extra what they tell you. It's going to be a lot of points. It's a lot of points, but it's a lot of money. Yeah. So it saved me a lot of money. So you got, you did points plus add? I think I did. Okay. I don't know. No, Julie helped me. Okay. I don't know Julie. Julie is Max's mom. Shout out Max's mom. Julie, she does listen to this show often. She has traveled. She is. Oh, wow. And you're using a travel. Well, she helps me sometimes.

And it's really nice because like, I don't know how to do any of this. I don't know how to use

“points. That's part of why I don't use them. Right. I think that's what they're counting on.”

Yeah. Exactly. And I'm like, nope. I mean, Julie knows. Do you imagine those first? So they bring in an expert certainly. And then they pitch the board or whatever the higher

ups are. And they go, okay, here's what we're here to pitch. We'd like to start this point's program.

Yeah. And every 20,000 points people get a free plane ticket. And then the people there go, like, well, shit, if you divide that up, we're going to be given around and they go, well, here's a good news. 21% of these people will hoard them and die with the points that actually protects. I think it's more than 21. Probably. I'm just, this is the number. Sure. And then they go. And then 36% of people will never be able to figure out how to use the points. Oh, the modics. So now we're down to,

like, you know, this was a part of their initial pitch. So like, what we've modeled that is really only about 11% of people will be actually cashing these in. Yes. So that's why it's this. But yeah, but they need to watch out for like the, so we've discussed the deck shepherd types, the monocopadmin types. But then there's also the Elizabeth lame types. She's totally hacked points. She's like, she knows how to do it. Christen's wild. She is like, she pays zero dollars.

Yeah. It's crazy. Christen is like, you convert these points into those points. And then on this month, you convert those points to these points. And then there's, yeah. So yeah, there's some people mastered it. I mean, I don't even know, I can't so flight sometimes. And they don't refund the money. They give me a credit. And I don't know how to ever, they don't give you like, here's a number to type in that will activate your credit. It's just like you have a credit good luck for you're going

to how to tell. No, if you go to your app, it's there. My app, you have an app for all your airlines. Just Delta Delta is my, my, my, my main. Yeah, because it Delta one, but those expired. Because it Delta your daughter. They expire. Why? Credit credits is your expire with an like a year. Yeah. It's like a year or two years. Your airline points expire? No, no, you're right. It's from a cancel flight. Oh, yeah, which I, I don't know how to use it. That's

“why you need to go get your Delta app, put your thing in your number. And it'll, it'll, it's actually”

very easy to use on that. You can just like say, like, pay with credit. Oh, wow. It's cool. I have done that. Great. I mean, your daughter's named after the dang airline. And every time she flies and I'm waiting to see because 100% of the times we fly when we check in and they read the

things, they always comment on that it's the same name as the airline. Yeah. And she has liked that

a lot as a kid. It's exciting. It's more attention. Of course. But she's getting older. And I know it won't be fun, like when she's 24 and they're like, oh, you're fun. And then she'll be like, yeah, man, I've heard this every time I've flown since I did things she's going to start going by DD. Or what if she just refused to flight Delta so they could. But then what if she was checking in at American Airlines and like, when you'd be more comfortable on Delta, and she's like,

fuck, man, okay, I'm going to go back to Delta. Oh, shit. There's a lot. There's a lot to think about. But I am way, I'm waiting. It hasn't happened. Thank god. But I know it's coming world. It'll, it'll change from excitement for the attention to annoyed. Yeah. And I'm, I'm just clocking that. And who knows, we have some flights coming up. This could be the time. Let me know.

“Okay. But you won't be able to let me know. We got to, you have to, you have to write it down”

and save it for later. Because as a reminder, we don't have fact checks for the next little bit, guys get excited. It's rerun time. It's block party summer. Do you remember block party summer? No, tell me about it. It was on Nickelodeon. Okay. Um, I used to, and I stayed with my grandparents in Savannah. There was block party summer on Nickelodeon. So Mondays was bewitched, and then it would be all night, bewitch marathon, then it was, I dream of Jeannie, and it was Mary Tyler Moore show,

Do I wish? You're just, you're just watching the children playing the backyard last week,

and you had great envy of the carefree nature of their play. We'll give her a story. And just the way, there's a look on your face when you talk about being a little kid.

“I'm an astalgic gal. I know, but would you like to be a little kid again?”

I don't think so. Because there are a lot of things I like a lot about being an adult. Hmm. I don't want to give those up. Right. And it, it's one or the other. You don't get both. Well, we, you just told me that someone, someone human, the first human, is trying the epigenome anti-aging anti-aging treatment protocol. And so we were discussing this, what age would we go back to? Yeah. And then we said, maybe be fun if I went back to being like

four. Right. But you still have the same position and just a higher voice. Yeah. But you're same brain. My same brain and my same knowledge. But I was a little for your old looking girl.

Yeah. It would probably, it would reduce stress between us. Yeah. Because you would never

be able to get mad at me and possible. And I would just like, I would chalk up you whatever you're doing. Like, oh, she's a kid. The way I'm able to write off in the same behavior in my house because I'm like, yeah, they're kids. But that actually, okay, that's going to get complicated. Because I'm going to be like, I am not stopped treating me like a child. Well, but you're a child. No, no, no. I got to help you into this car and I pick you up and I grab everything for you.

I only look for, but I can't get your jacket out of it. All the stuff kids can't do.

“You can't get your mittens on. Yeah. I think we have to go over every morning and fucking get”

you ready for your job. But I'm also going to be texting, why are you late? We need to start the day. Come get my clothes on. And you can't reach. You can't cook yourself eggs. You know, you would need a caretaker. Oh, and who, like, maybe Joshua on a little steps and stools everywhere around your house. This would get tricky sexually. Tell me. Yeah. Because like, anyone I want to have sex with is not a pet a pile. They have to be a pet about like on your on your dating

app. You have so who you're looking for. Handsome financially secure pet a file. Funny smart. No, listen, it's not a small laugh. It's a laughing joke when we think about your miniature and for it's still on a day. I'm just kidding. But minutes, miniature. Yeah, you have your same mental needs. Yeah. And I have my, and I have physical needs, like, I need met and I need food. No, no, I mean, like, sexually. Yeah. So I, I'm still attracted to the same

people. I'm attracted to, but they're not pet a file. So this is going to get complex. Because even if they're attracted to my brain, how will they, like, they can't have sex with a four-year-old body? No, no, they just can't. They can't. It's a, it's a, if you thought the dating scene was challenging currently, with you being four, it's going to really be impossible. For your old body, let's not say I'm four because I'm not four. Yeah, I think a more, a more blurry hypothetical.

You don't think this one's blurry? No, this is black and white because they just can't.

“You're four. What if you go to 17? Oh, no, that's even worse for some reason. Well, that's why I'm”

steering our vessel into those choppy waters. Because that's way more complicated. No, but you know what's interesting. So it's a 17-year-old body. Yeah, 40-year-old life. But so what? What? Unless I'm wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong based on my life experience. I don't look my current age. Right. I look younger. Okay. Yeah. So if I just looked to 17, I mean, it just be like if I currently looked 17, that's right. That's right. Whatever, everyone thinks I look like

which often is young. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that would be fine. Because I am 38 in this scenario. Right? Is that what happens to it? Well, that's a thousand percent fine because the entire spirit and intention of these laws is that a young mind that doesn't understand what they're getting into or how they're being manipulated would be taken advantage of. Exactly. And a non-sexual being would be asked to participate in sexuality with an older prison. Yeah. Power dynamic. But that's

100 percent about the brain. Exactly. Yeah. Your body can handle it long before we acknowledge

you can handle it mentally. So we already know what the goal is. So yes, there's nothing at risk. There's no victimization on the table. Yeah. So. But the man who's able to be aroused

is a trick. That's why I was trying to steer us into 17. 17 feels if I looked like I looked

seven when I was 17, but it's me now. Yeah. That's fine. For to me. I also get to decide. But about the guy, though, because we know how we feel about the guy that was able to perform for the four-year-old. That's a non-sexual. That's a non-sexual. I actually could trap. You could like trap.

“A day work on those hard copy shows and that's what they would do. I'm going to do that when I get”

four. We're just so full. It's like doing good. Okay. Now, what do we think of the guy who's willing to be with 17-year-old body you with 38-year-old brain? I think that's I think they're fine.

Yeah, I looked really good. I looked good. I don't look that different than I looked when I was 17.

We had a version of this hypothetical. It was very similar to a hypothetical we had years ago, which is this thing I thought of, which is when I was in high school, my girlfriends and I had some nude photos. You mean exchanging when you mean you had nude photos? Yeah, we had like taken photos. Oh, yeah. Don't do that, kids. Just especially in this digital age, do not do that. Well, they're going to do exactly what they're going to do. No, you can say like that's

“it. You can say be careful. Oh, sure, sure, sure. These things get out. I'm just not naive. I think”

I think a lot of kids say it's not to do that. I'm just saying we were doing it with really

shitty technology and the risk of having to go get them developed in the town pharmacy. You know, you had to go drop your film off it, fucking big people in a way way easier to keep wrapped up than the digital age setting. Obviously, there's an infinite distribution of the other. Wow. What I'm saying though is there was a bunch of hurdles and risky hurdles. Yeah. But we still did it because we wanted to do it so much. So I'm only being, I think I'm trying to be realistic

about whether or not people take that warning, but that doesn't matter. The hypothetical is, so let's say I have these photos. Let's say Kristen had taken photos with her boyfriend when she was 16. And we're both just chatting about this. And then we both have photos of each other

“when we were miners. Uh-huh. Is it, is it? What do we feel about each person wanting to see those?”

Well, how old are you? Let's say I'm, let's say 15 and 15 because that's below age. It can send everywhere. Yeah. It 15 to me is we know children. Uh-huh. You are older than that. Yeah. I'm just, it's so curious because again, there can't be a victim because that person's now 50 because I can't be a victim because I'm now 51. That boy that could have been a victim doesn't even exist. Well, it's, it's so can be violating if a pedophile is using your pictures

from when you were young to like, yeah, that's right. A pedophile would be concerning and we would know that like, well, there's not an ethical debate there. Right. But I'm saying you can still be a victim. You can setting two consenting adults who I go, no, I don't care at all if you look at the picture of me when I was 15 naked. So you have my consent and I'm the person in the photo. And the person in the photo is no longer a miner and can't be victimized. Right. So there's,

there can't be a victim in the scenario. Okay. What are the, yeah, what's the more out of the of that? Doesn't mean that there's not going to be judgment of the person who wants to see a 15 year old sexually. Well, I think this situation good is like we know each other as adults and we made the two adults make a decision. So this guy knows you're a 38 year dating. This guy knows that you Monica are 38 from your brain. Yeah, but you're, you've made your body 17. Right. But he knows he's talking

to a 38 year old with full autonomy. But that's different because then he does get the full me. He gets a 38 year old conversation and interaction and brain. If it's just a picture, that's not. They are, they are getting off on a child. Well, not a child. Their wife as a child or their husband as a child. That's still a child. Like the picture is, is what they're looking at and liking. And so yeah, that is, I, I, would be creeped out for sure if anyone that liked. I thought it was,

that was jacking off to a picture of me. What I was, what I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah, I would, I would be like,

I would be flattered. Like it would only, it only, I don't like it. Yeah. That's just, it might not be

gendered because we also know men who've been, who don't, who, it's you. You, I mean, all we can

“speak for is you and me. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I'm saying, but I want to be clear. I'm saying”

if my partner was enjoying looking at this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would be flattered by that. I know. I'm just saying you're speaking for you, Dax. I'm speaking for me, Monica of what I would find creep in what you would find creepy. Anyway, so I, I think it's a fine line of age. Stay tuned for our mature expert if you dare. The only reason that this conversation isn't just shockingly indulgent, this is actually a weird possibility. Yeah. This isn't totally, so just, I'm going to explain

it for one second. Yeah. Okay. So, and I'm going to, I'm going to make some mistakes here. I'm

going to do the best I can though. I'm sure that some genesis will, will hit me in the comments. But, in general, what's confusing about aging is your DNA stays unchanged. Your DNA is your DNA,

“right? And then your DNA, your cells replicate through my doses. And they make an identical”

copy to the strand of DNA that it originated as. And so the question is, if it's making identical copies all the time, how on earth does aging even happen? Why do your cells look so different at 70 than they did at 30? So, what the scientists, it's called the Yakumura property, whatever. The scientists discovered that in mice, what really is going on with aging is that although your DNA stays identical the whole time, you're up a genome on top of the layer on top that's

deciding which of the genes it wants to turn on and off of the DNA strand, they accumulate all kinds of damage along the way. And that's actually what aging is. The epigenome accumulating all these different errors that then start turning your DNA on and off in a different way than they did when you were younger. So, they have figured out in these mice how to cut out the epigenome

back, prune it back to before the errors occurred. And when they first did it, they took the epigenome

back so far that the mice died because they immediately got young and then their organs continued to grow as if they were infants. So, then they had to fine tune just cutting off the right amount of the epigenome. And then they've done that. They can take a mouse and take it to whatever age they decide. Which is, it's mind blowing. And so, they have just now started the first human trial. So, it is sincerely conceivable that people at some point in the not too distant future will be

picking what physiological age they want to be. Yeah. So, I just, I also don't see how you, if you're going back though, why you wouldn't also go back to, like your brain wouldn't be as

“developed either though, right? Like if your brain doesn't go through mitosis, that's what's unique”

about your gray cells that are in your brain. Is they are just, you have them and then they're dying, but they're not going through that same process. So, that's why they're not accumulating the same issues. But yeah, so your brain wouldn't be affected by your cells going back. You're not losing memories or identity or any of that stuff. This is fucking wild. It's wild. You're going to see me out there as a little four-year-old. So, when you see

two 18-year-olds together, they might be 71 and 73. Yeah. I know. That's crazy. That's crazy. I mean, so that's the thing. I guess the point is, if you go back to 17, the dude you like is also going to go back to 17. So, now he's got two 17-year-olds of four-year-old brains that are fucking there's really nothing to think about. Right. That's true. Or, I don't think a lot of guys should go back to 17 if I'm being honest.

I know. I look way worse. Seven. I got to really think about it. It's the best stage for a lot of men. But I know you want to be a frontal lobe. 18 17 with a frontal lobe. No, I'm saying physically. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting. And then it'll be tricky in some relationships because they'll be like, "Could you just go back to being, could you like please be 18 or 20?"

Just loved the way you were when you were 20 and the way you loved. And then they're like,

plastic surgery is a slippery slope. Oh, slippery. It's a very very slippery slope, everyone knows.

You could go, like, I'm going to go back to 29. You could go back to 29. You know, don't feel as good as I thought I was going to feel. Well, well, well, well, I get back out of Ryan better. I should go to 27 and you can see someone just getting caught in it. That's how you end up as a four year old. Yeah. That's how you end up. You know, if I know, I would go back to being the baby in the picture. Uh-huh. She's how old. One. Yeah.

Can she talk? See, this is where. Oh, yeah, that would be frustrating. That's actually a core fine. No, I think you would be able to because you've already created all of those surgery. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

“I think you would be able to talk. I mean, that's what would be so freaky as if you went back to six”

months old and you were like, where's my my microphone? But let me up and I'm telling you, I've, you're going to want to use those things. Like, I've already designed how you guys are going to get me over there. Yeah, I was the, it, or too bad you can't do it for just like a day, you know, because then it's like the baby for a day. Yeah, just for a day. You get to like, I want you to feel bad for you. You just be a baby. Yeah, Aaron and I would love to take the little girl on the dress

out for some years. Yeah, exactly. But I still like sushi. Like, I'm so gonna like sushi. I'm so gonna like put to get in the middle of the year. Oh, no, probably though, my taste buds will not have been about that drink. Why? Because how do they know if you're really 21? Oh, you know, I'd have it to

have, there'd have to be a way to put more than I'm not doing it. Yeah, you would never go before 21.

“No, no, you, in this world, you're able to prove your age, right? You have to take you”

of your old license. All right. And then you hold it up and it's like, that's what that, that's you in 35 years. Like, it has trying to like, no, I think they know based on my conversation with them. Okay. Because I'll be speaking. I see what happened in 1991. Yeah, and I'm only one year old. You're right. They'll have to be some kind of really sophisticated age system where you can demonstrate your age. You're actually. Yes. But then again,

we don't want a 16 year old and you can't prove she's not 40. Exactly. That's why things are going to be hard. But I, I, I, I, I actually wouldn't like sushi because my taste buds wouldn't have been developed yet. Like, my brain would be developing not my taste buds, right? I don't know. Could you just do you think I know for me? I know it'll be like taking a sheet off of my face.

Like, I know my eyesight was so much better. The first thing I would notice is like, oh,

damn, we can see. And I wonder, like, how much of my hearing I would notice is back in my taste buds, is it definitely taste way less than I did? Oh, wait, taste buds began forming in the womb around week eight of pregnancy and are fully developed and connected to the brain by week 16. Oh, so you get your full taste buds before you even born? You get most everything. Then you've got to figure out how to use it all. Oh, God. In middle age, around 40 years old,

the regeneration rate begins to slow leading to a gradual decline in the sense of taste over time. Yeah, I'm 11 years into that journey, Monica. Now, do you think it would be an ethical when I'm one, it looking? What looking? One looking that I would get an egg or a treeble because I'm actually 38 in my brain. Yeah, but you no longer need a retrieval. Oh, boy, no, I wonder if the eggs are more in line with the brain. I don't know if you're, they would go back. I just think it's whatever

cells are reproducing. Oh, yes, you don't get worse. Yeah, huh, interesting. Yeah, that's the weird. Do you think it would be an ethical to get to freeze a one year old's eggs? Yeah, yeah, a quite quite an unethical and unethical. Well, because I wish I had my one year old eggs now. You could have waited, wait, and you could have waited until 18, those eggs would be just fine. I just, the one year old is when you have, you have so many. Yeah. And like, you can spare a lot

when you're one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's because they don't have the choice. I mean, look, I'm in a tricky situation where I guess I guess there were news articles when I said that I would get my daughter's eggs retreating. You would pay is what you said. That's the, you weren't saying you're making them. But no, I mean, I didn't say it was making it, and also when

“they're an adult, the people inferred I meant as children. And I just want to be, that's why”

I want to be dreadful clear that I don't believe in harvesting eggs in minors. I don't know if I

I'm not saying yes or no, but I think there's more to think about being on, being at the age

where I like did it twice. It wasn't great. I desperately wish I had just like 80 eggs.

“That were young and mature. Oh, young and mature. That's what we're talking about.”

Young and mature. Oh, it's true. I would definitely go back and do it at age one and get 80. And no one would even, I wouldn't even notice. All right. Only in the scenario because I'm a 38 year old giving consent. That's the issue. A one year old can't give consent. They can't. That's why it needs to be 18 or above. I agree. I agree ethically. Yeah. But if you could time travel, you would kidnap yourself for a day, get all the eggs out when I was one. And return

her to her bass and add. No one. None the risers. Yeah. Yeah. It just goes to illustrate how tiny the eggs are when you think all of them can be in a baby and it's not like protruding out of their stomach. You know, it's like how tiny are these damn eggs. Because I'm thinking the immediate issue

“with your plan is the instruments, right? Everything that's involved with agriculture is not going”

to work with a one year old. But then I was thinking, but those, it's crazy. Those eggs are the same signs. They are. I know. Well, they would just use a smaller speculum. Yeah. I don't want me. Oh, it's not a good thought. I do. The things you would do to your own bot. This is also

fascinating. Like the things I would do to my own one year old body is obviously I would never

like, yeah, I did any other one year old having like a tiny tiny spec like no. Yeah. And I feel great about anyone looking at photos of me as a minor. But that's so nice. But I wouldn't say that for anyone else. No, I'm bonding with you right now. I know, but I'm so I have that opinion for me. But that's not my policy for everyone else. Well, that's different. But um, it's not, though, because that involved this only, the whole thing is me. Yeah. One year old me 38 year old me. It's all

mean no. The doctors then have to get involved. Oh, they're also one. Oh, Jesus. Oh, yeah. The notes. So it's going to be a great procedure grown up. Oh, look. I mean, also doctors perform stuff on babies. I know. And like hard stuff if they have to do it. Yeah. I'm not saying it going to be done. I'm just saying currently. And then I would have a little valentino and libarity next to me for the procedure. I would get so many eggs. Yeah. My current 38 year old self would

feel so free. Yeah. So free. Yeah. Interesting. All right. Well, wow. Right last fact that before summer break, cancelable almost. Now a little go like no wonder they took a break. They weren't a nose duck. They're gonna definitely get cancer. So no, we're, we're doing great. We just want a little break. So we're taking a little one. But we are a little slap happy. Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, episodes will continue. Oh, yeah. On a erupted new guess. So it's new guess. It's just the fact checks will be re-writes.

And I do hope you'll re-listen to some of these oldies but goodies. Yeah, me too. But they won't be on YouTube. So you'll need a listen audio only. Okay. Um, okay. All right. All right. All right. Great. Okay. Edward facts. Edward P. Norton. What is the peace stand for? I that's not his mental issue. Oh, I could see his middle name being Peter because of Alex P. Keaton is why it makes sense

“because Alex P. Keaton was so intelligent. If you remember you didn't did you ever watch Alex P. Keaton?”

Do you know what that is? It's from family times. There we go. I knew. Yeah. Michael J. Fox. I know. He was a young Republican. He wore a lot of sweater vests to school and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was just very smart. Like percocious and smart. Yes. Whoa. Edward's middle name is Harrison. Hey. That's a good middle name. I wonder after Harrison George Harrison or Harrison Ford's probably not Harrison. Oh, he's got enough for Harrison Ford's. That would be

that's how people Michigan will pronounce his lesson. It would be. I know. You see the new Harrison Ford's movie. Oh, my God. His birthday is around my birthday time. Yeah. See the 21st? Mm-hmm. Okay. Harrison was as a maternal grandmother's last name. Oh, she should know that. Betty Kent Harrison. Okay. When's his birthday Monica? They 18th. Oh, okay. Six days. Three days

of my guess. Sure. Do emissions off California ports drive $6.5 billion in respiratory health

study by Kim Nolton, Miriam, Rock, and Elman, Linda gave a lot of people. However, this was

“a national stat, not a California specific stat. The stat reads the total health costs associated”

with those inclusion to 6.5 billion nationwide. It did find a California set that states the

diesel death zones such as West Long Beach San Pedro and Wilmington is where residents face localized asthma hospitalization rates up to 8 times higher than the county average and life expectancy up to eight years lower. That's not good enough. Do you imagine knowing our arena that it's not great how close we are to the 101. I know. Like that radiates out in a very predictable way too. If you're like in a, you know, an eighth of a mile, a tenth of a mile. I don't really think about it.

Yeah, it's best not to. Yeah. Okay. Average car emissions in past few decades. Okay. The real world fuel efficiency by manufacturer Tesla's the highest 120.6 MPG. Uh-huh. Then we got Honda. Okay. Okay. 28.3. Hyundai. This is not an order actually. Okay. 41. Hyundai 29.8. Kia. 30.4. Let's look at Mercedes. 27.5. Okay. All right. That's good. No American ones are on that list. Oh, let's see. Tesla Honda Hyundai Kia BMW German, right?

Before GM or not, Toyota Subaru Mazda VW Mercedes Ford. Oh, Ford. Ford is 23.2. Yeah. What sandbags those numbers

“for Ford and GM and Chrysler is their main business is trucks. Right. That's what they were”

bread and butter is. Nobody's buying Tesla trucks. They're not buying. They're buying very few Honda trucks. Yeah. No VW trucks. GM is 22.4. What is still Antis? Still Antis is an Italian company that owns Chrysler currently. Oh, got it. Oh, got it. There's passed through some different ownership over the years and currently still Antis who also owns Fiat and some other. Got it. Dodge mozzarella that's part of Chrysler. Yeah. We had a Dodge caravan. Yeah. We had a Pacific I remember. It's purple.

Fuck gorgeous black. Yeah. That was great. Yeah. Yeah. That was great. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How much has Robert Danny Jr. made in Marvel? Oh, wow. According to comic book resources, has reported MCU total salary

ranges from 386 to 421 million. All in. Yeah. I assume. Alleged salary by movie. Alleged.

Original Iron Man. 2 million. Iron Man 2 10 million. Avengers 50 million. Iron Man 3 50 million. Avengers Age of Ultron 50 to 80 million. Captain America Civil War 64 million. Spider-Man homecoming 10 to 15 million. Avengers Infinity War 75 million. Avengers endgame 75 million. This does not include many camios and other Marvel movies. God damn son. Go ahead.

“Because the last one that was reported was I think to start the new one. It's a hundred.”

I just was. But then if you also heard this thing about Johnny Dab, which is fucking fascinating. Uh-huh. During the Emperor heard dust up Disney kind of went on record and took well, I want to be careful. I don't know specifically, what he interpreted is that they had chamed him publicly during that thing. And then after he was kind of vindicated or at least not found the liable frame that stuff, he was asked if he would do another pirates. And he said,

I wouldn't do another pirates for $300 million because of the way they treated me. Wow.

And I read two weeks ago that Disney just offered him $301 million to do. Is he doing it? I don't know. For the see if he didn't find it on the right. But I was like $300 million to go for one move. Yeah. And guess what? He's worth it. They wouldn't be offering them that. If that wasn't worth it. How much do they think they're going to make on that? A billion and a half dollars. Yes. But it's cost so much to make them. Yeah, but if it costs five,

let's say they spent $400 million. They pay him $300 million. There's $700 million. They make 1.5 billion. They're going to keep of that $850 million. That's just the release of it. That's not any VOD, any streaming rights, any merchandise. And so if they can come out, that about the other. If they can turn a cheme, $150 million by paying him $300,

if he likes the way the parts written. Good for him. Good for him.

“Well, I'll read $300 one dollars. Let me see how it turns out. New magic. No. Who wrote the”

Mike Nichols biography? Was it Mark Harris? Yes. My Nichols' life was written by Mark Harris

and published in 2021. Beautiful biography. I've read some of it as well. I like it.

“I mean, I really like it. I just, you know, I don't finish books. Yeah, you start books. That's”

what it's kind of amazing. You're a book starter. I hate that about myself. Not a fire starter.

But you know what? It's better. I decided it's better to read some of a book than none of a book into reading. Just to be reading. Yep. Nothing's there. Just came out. 30,000 athletes study by university. They look into everything. Reps, sets, hours in the gym. And what they found is that the chasm between doing nothing and doing a little bit is fucking enormous. And the chasm between doing a moderate amount and a ton of heavy training is very small.

Yeah. That makes sense. So your immediate gains and rewards are very soon to grab. Everyone should

“do it. Do it. Just read. Yeah. Just do it. That's the same. Does that all the fact?”

Oh, that. Yeah. Oh, wait. Is it a hold on? Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She does good stuff. Yeah. It's good stuff. All right. Love you. Love you. [Music]