Emily & Matt Hyland (Emily Burger)

I'm joined by miniature mobs. Hi there.

Boy, y'all, you've been hearing us talking about this burger for eight long years. It's our obsession. It's our religion. It's our life force. It's our life force, Emily Burger. So today we have Emily in Matt Highlandon who started Emily loves pizza and Emily and Emily square and all these yummy restaurants that serve it. Emily is also a poet and an educator and a mindful movement teacher.

And Matt is a chef and a restaurant tour. Please enjoy Emily and Matt Highland. I hope you know you've influenced me. I'm a magenta because you love so much.

“Hi, good to see you. Did you guys get the advice on the burger? Yes, of course. That's what I'm saying.”

You already said good. Well, we have some gifts for you. Oh my god.

Oh my god, amazing. Yeah, yeah. So now you have it and you can read that this is so yummy.

So joy. Oh, I can't wait. It's like the mustard squarter at a colony dog. It is. It is like a fad rockers. And so it's like extra matter. You have the sauce. Yeah, like that. Exactly. Exactly. And I could be the rest of our gifts. We kind of decided to work so honored to be here. Matt's wife is a chocolate tier. She made special special bun bun. What? My new book is coming out this season. I wanted to keep what it does for you.

Are you coming from Santa Fe and you're coming from Austin? Yeah. Yeah. You guys visit your own family. Occasionally. Yeah. We love LA's. I love my favorite cities growing up in New York. It's so different. We've got to grow up in New York City. Coming to LA is such a nice treat. It's like a big, beautiful town with the best weather ever. Great food. It's so much fun being here. How often do you guys go visit these different locations? Let's start with how many Emily or

Emily are all the different iterations. Restaurants are the right now. So we still co-own and

“operate the original Emily. Yeah. That's why you got the VIP reservation. Yeah. That was our intro.”

What are they're now? 21. No, I think there's Mark 30. 30. 30. I mean squirts. Not Emily. The franchise is called Amy Square. Correct. Okay. The West Village is a weird. Miss hybrid, right? Yeah. So the burger is a little different. We use the same sauce, but it's a double patty. Yeah, Clint Hill is definitely the original. Yeah. The burger at the West Village seems to me like it's evolved closer to Clinton Hill over the years. Is that at all true? There's more soupy

onions now on the West Village, which is what I like so much about. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think originally when I went there they had the soupy onion. Probably put a little less on. It has a vibe. We have been 2017. So it's almost 10 years we open that one. Right. Like your menu changes happen and chefs come and go and things like that. But we're pretty hands-off with that one.

“More recently, the bigger company owns that one specifically. Matt has come back in to do some”

corporate chefing, but I'm a silent partner in the Emmy-squared group. So I just basically run the

show over at the original from then on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, our chef and our manager are very reliable. You still have to check in all the time with this bigger business that you guys are silent partners in. You get updated and stuff. Yeah. And since they ask me to come back to sort of consult our corporate chef, I will retrain some of the other chefs and come into many items. We're opening one in Greenwich where I grew up, which is very strange. Oh yeah, Connecticut. Yeah. Like right

in Greenwich Avenue, which is like a strange place to call it from where you grew up. Yeah. It's a go where a restaurant felt I went to growing up. So it's kind of cool. But we'll launch a new menu there. That'll like roll into the other 30 locations. So that'd be like kind of a test kitchen. Exactly. You're going to be stuck. Yeah. And I'll be living in my mom's basement at that point. So that's all right. I'm sure you're going up. Yeah. Really cool stuff. Yeah. Which was the plan if the restaurant

is a plan. It's nice to have that backup. It's meant to be honest. It's full of crackets. It's great. It's meant to open one on the east side of LA. Santa Monica, I'll tell you. It's another day. That's going to Brooklyn. Do we know that? What I didn't know that Emily points it out was there's one downtown. And what is it? Elaneation life. Why is that what it's called? There's one downtown now? Yeah. How long has that been online? A few years? Oh no. If you don't want too old.

Yeah. Because when you've ordered in the past, they will deliver, I don't know why, they're delivered from Santa Monica. And it's good. It's still good. But it takes a beating. Yeah. I'm going to have a car right here. You got a really bad die hard Emily. Exactly. I'd like

Yeah. There is a building there that could use some cute stuff. Hill relay it.

“What's up with you, Emily? You're from New Jersey. Hi. I'm Jersey Girl. And what did your parents do?”

They were teachers. My mom was a teacher of graduate students for the visually impaired. So she was a sighted person who could actually read and write in Braille, which was pretty good. How did she stumble into that? That feels very niche. She did her doctorate at Columbia in special education. I don't actually know the why of that, but she felt very called towards that population. And my dad founded a charter school in Northern New Jersey and was the principal of that school. Did you attend that?

I did not attend that school. Thankfully. Did they meet a Columbia? They met Columbia. Yeah. And then your parents you started in Brooklyn but ended up in Greenwich. Yeah. So I was born in New York City. I was born at NYU. I guess in the 80s. Yeah. Yeah. So then Puzzle in Brooklyn until I was nine. And then my dad grew up in Greenwich. So we moved back up there because he was sick of living in New York City. And my mother grew up in Deep Brooklyn. And we lived like 10 blocks and where she grew up.

She traveled. She would never left Brooklyn. Yeah. And what did they do? They were both transportation

analysts standard of course. That's where they met. Okay. Again, this is very fucking niche. Your mom needs to grow out in their transportation. They specialize in airlines and trains. So my father would go up and be like, this is why we should not give them this kind of rating, like a triple-air double-air credit rating. And my mom would go up and be like, no, this is why we should. Oh, have a series. But they both work at standards and

poor. Yes, center for it. Is that some pay? And they rank stuff and they say what the quality of their debt is and stuff like that. Exactly. I didn't follow in that path.

“Yeah. Right. Do you guys mean in Rhode Island at what school?”

Roger Williams. I was Matt's RA. Oh, you were. He into his room and steals candy. You're not too younger than me. I was 18. I was like 20. I thought nobody listened to me on the floor. I was an RA for one semester after that. So you were a good student. I was like a type A. Yeah, still I'm. Yeah. Still true. Oh, I dropped for the candy. That was the kind of student I was.

And you were a computer science major for science. Okay. All of this is hilarious where you end up. And then you were doing writing and sociology. Oh, yeah, creative writing. And when did you first meet? Literally you were you in his dorm room? The second week of Sposlawia. Yeah. We ate pizza together on the dorm room floor. Three straight pizza. Yeah, three straight pizza meals. And then it was pretty quick.

Uh, Pavronian olive oil. Pavronian olive is my olive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One year. You know hers. Well, no, I know what they ate on the first date. That was our first date. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's

incredible. That's not hard to find. Okay. So you guys graduate in 2004. And do you already know

by the time you graduate, you're not going to pursue sociology and you're not going to pursue computer science? Yeah, I was going to drop out junior year and go to a culinary school and then my mother and I'm like convince me, you already there. I'll junior year. Why would you drop out now? Yeah. And that's obviously much like the great idea. Yeah. Yeah. I majored in creative writing actually. So I wound up applying and getting into graduate school at Brooklyn College for my

MFA and poetry. And then Matt got into culinary school at the Institute of Culinary Education. So we came to the city, which is unfortunately known as ice. Yes. It is unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they have a campus here in Pasadena now. They're like, we got to change our community. That might need a reason. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, I'm going to read this interview with you for ice. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah, they need a different angle. Or just drop the acronym. Okay. So yeah,

you guys are together. 2001, you graduate 2004. And then for the next three years between 04 and 07, you're getting your masters and you're going to ice to be an agent and throw people

in a second. What is a culinary program in tail? I have no clue. The one I went to is only six

months. There's just more of like, here's your basic skills. Just throw you into the wild and kind of get like, wrecked in a New York City kitchen. I was passionate about cooking and food, but I had no technical skills. So I went there and learned everything, even like how to heat up the pan correctly to put the oil in. So they really start from the basic. How does one heat up a pan correctly? You don't just throw it on the fucking burner? No, you do. Okay. But like, you know, it's

like how hot you want before you put your oil in. Okay. I got you. I do want this. I was like, we're not raising slowly the temperature, are we? You want to dedicate it good 45 to an hour. Are you want that oil to put in? Shimmer, shimmer. I know about that. Just a little bit.

“How to clean cast iron? You know, it's always important. Is there longer programs in six months?”

Okay. People can go for years now. Yeah. If you want to go to like CIA, I upstate New York, that's not a good name. CIA, why are they all like this? I see. I see. Yeah. Hold on. Security is a great program. Especially like an obli. Yeah. So yeah, you can go like four years. Like a factual college. But I picked the six month one because I kind of wanted to get into the restaurants. While I was in Collier School, I did like Staging for a few nights in different places too.

What Staging? You go and work for free for a night to see how kitchen operates because every kitchen

has a giant restaurant to it. It has a tiny restaurant to it. You kind of go for a night to watch your service and help give you some opinions to chat while you're doing it. And then how does this interest lead you ultimately to pizza? That's where your obsession lands, you right? Yeah. So you know, it's kind of getting burned out of this regular cooking and it took like a year off and then you were going to school for being a principal in it. I was in yoga school at that time. Oh, you're yoga school. That's right.

And then the pizza place is so de Casa, which is still there. It's on Lannick Avenue. It's in Brooklyn. There were just opening that week. I walk in. I was like, I don't know how to make pizza, but like I've

always wanted to. Yeah. And I had experience helping up in restaurants and pizza guys are really

aren't chefs. So I could kind of come in there and help just be like, this is a better chef thing to do than how you just make pizza. And then look at his like my pizza mentor. He taught you the why of pizza. Yeah. What is the why of pizza for simplicity of it, right? Making the original form of pizza like the Neapolitan pizza was great because every pizza is a replica of that pizza. And then there's a replica and then a replica and then it's all of a sudden you have like a Detroit pie or

something that doesn't even look like the original. But it's like why is the original the original? How do these clones come out of it basically? Yeah. And why was the original? The Italians were starting to accomplish what? It's basically like peasant foods. So the guys would get off the boats. They'd get around red pie. They'd put their fish on it. And they kind of

“roll it up like a burrito, eat it like street food. Right. That's why marinara's called marinara sauce.”

It's like the seafood process. Oh, like marine marinara. What's interesting? You would hate fish pizza.

Or one fuck with it. He's scared of fish. Yeah. He's so kind of fish. But I remember the day he came home from one of the early days at Soatsakasa. And it really did feel like he put his hands on that dough. And he was like this is what I wanted to. And we had had this kind of fantasy of like one day we'll open our restaurant and the conditions in our life were so that we were like let's do this. Now let's jump in and what's the worst that happens. Yeah. Now we're sitting here with you.

Let's go to your yoga instruction because that's what's happening. So you've picked up a master's and you are teaching. Yes. And then you're also learning to be a yoga instructor. What did that interest stem from? I was an athlete my whole life. I went to college to play basketball. And then I quit basketball. My freshman year very quickly and discovered that

trifecta of beer pizza pot and gained a lot of weight was really unhealthy. And by time

I got to the end of graduate school. I was very obese and really struggling and very medicated and that sort of thing. And my sister brought me to a yoga class and encouraged me. And I got there and it was like this is something I can do. I don't feel judged. I feel safe and held and kept showing up. And so it's been one of the biggest through lines in my life. And was really the lens through which I approached the ethos of the restaurant in terms of my work

“with it, which I think was really valuable. What would you say if you had to stereotype people”

that are drawn to yoga? I've attended some yoga classes. I've probably done 20 in the last 26 years I've lived here. Okay. It was a vibe. And I'm curious what the connective tissue is. Sounds like it answered a whole host of things. Holistically change your life. Not just oh I want to get in shape. So it would have be fair to say people that are drawn to it. Are looking for some kind of holistic experience? I think it's been really

appropriated and watered down in our culture. It came through California in like aerobics workout culture in the 1970s. And so it started to really become this thing. That's like hot power exercise but yeah the physical practice is just one eighth of what it means to practice the 8 limbs path of yoga. So it is a philosophical way of living not just posture practice. And that's been grossly misinterpreted. What is it grounded in like what ancient text or

is it an offshoot of some other religion? It's not a religious practice as much as a philosophical practice. So the yoga sutras of patangeli is kind of the text. It's the threads of all of the strings of what it means to practice. And it's yoga shitt of routine erotaha means yoga is the quieting of all the changing states of the mind. So the work of yoga is to quell the thinking mind. It's not to be able to like do some crazy arm balance in a matching set on Instagram.

If that's an added bonus of a group. Sure. Yeah and I don't claim to be any sort of expert but just growing in that world. I'm trying to do my duty as a white woman of privilege who runs a yoga studio to not be appropriating and to be aware of how I've been brought up on it and the impact it's had on me as a person has been life-changing but I think is slightly problematic in our society. But who am I to? I think Nendia too. They look at yoga's a white person thing.

Maybe now they might. Like it's so much bigger in America. Like a cultural, cultural phenomenon. It's kind of been here for one time. It's kind of like pizza. If you're Italian literally. Like I think Italians look at America like they have more pizza than anyone could imagine and every single shape. Somehow it came from here but look what

“they've gone but there's a weird parallel between. I think it's like sushi in America too, right?”

Yeah. Yeah. I really think spicy crunchy rolls are delicious but definitely some Japanese person. We're like that's awesome. We like to McDonald's stuff. By the way, I'm here for it. I love

guess you've been together 2001 and then you start the first restaurant which is just Emily in 2012.

Oh 2014. We just celebrated 12 years operationally. Okay so you knew you wanted to make pizza

“and you knew you wanted to do what? What were you wanting to accomplish with the restaurant?”

I wasn't. I feel like I dragged me. I very much got pulled into that space. I withdrew from the graduate program I was in studying to become a school building leader in New York City and I'd resigned from my job as a public school teacher. It was not happy and so I was teaching yoga two classes a week making no money. That seemed like a place of possibility but also like what the heck and he was working as a line cook making no money and so again the time

felt like if we're gonna do it let's jump in and try this. Can I ask where the fuck did you get the capital? It sounds like you were barely paying your rent. How did you get the capital to start something? That's dad died and he inherited a little bit of money. Grandma too. There's like a hundred grander something so we had to really keep it on the cheap to open it. Yeah this is also very risky. If I'm dead broke and I inherit a hundred grand I don't know that I'm immediately gonna gamble it on opening a

booze. Well his mom's basement was the plan if we failed. Grandma died in those like three years later

“I think we did. It wasn't like oh wait I got money. It takes risk. Yeah it's something like everything”

into it. We got to go while in and we did and then it worked out. It was so broke so we couldn't even put tap lines in in the beginning. Which of the Kickstarter for the pizza oven? That's right. Yeah Wow. Your pizza ovens and when you guys were sitting down dreaming it up were you drawing pictures? How were you thinking of what it would look like and what were you thinking was going to be your guys's novel offering and to a very very crowded restaurant space in New York? Well we were super

impulsive. We had gone for a walk to go eat at a restaurant in Clinton Hill that Matt had been told about by Dale Tall Day who was a buddy of ours and we got to the restaurant and it was shuttered

and we were like that's where we're putting our restaurant and we had never really been in that

neighborhood and hadn't been living in Brooklyn that long. We had no business just doing this the way we did. We went and found a coffee shop and we drafted on a sheet of paper in my journal. How much might it cost to get in here? I think we called my dad to come look at the space that night with us or the next day or whatever. Yeah, hustled to get in there and that was it. Okay so almost location before overarching game plan of what it's going to be. But we knew we wanted a pizza

and what was going to be unique about your pizza? Well I love Neopalton pizza but I think my favorite pizza is New Haven which has like a very charred crust on it because Neopalton pizza is

“wet in the middle that's why you do it with a knife and fork so I wanted to have more of a dry”

pizza of Neopalton doesn't like a soupy middle. No big puppy crust so we push our crust down and go topping to the edge because people want more toppings than crusts. You hate those bubbles you fucking hate those. I don't hate those. I'm just telling a servant. Okay you're fine to eat that. Okay. It's obviously not New Haven's style but I tried to base how they cook their pizza on how we kind of cook our pizza. Is the original pizza that you guys started with what I have eaten

there? Was it rectangle and what we might call Detroit stylish? No so we have a big wood burning oven at the original location so it's round what fired pizza? Oh, then the English word is the Detroit. Yeah, so. So what's the timeline from dad comes? He looks at it. He must be thinking this terrible idea but they're young and he's supportive. He was supportive. He was at this but I bet he was like what are they doing? He was like you got to do this you guys because we're

thinking about I'm going to partner something and then we're like let's use the money to open a restaurant and your father was just like no you guys are opening this restaurant. Was your dad worried that you had had so many interests at this point? My parents were both educators. They were not happy. I resigned from my career track job at the Department of Education to pursue yoga and then open a pizza restaurant. They believe in the vision. They were both very supportive.

He was very talented chef and they knew that from the get-go and so we were doing it so they got on board. In the beginning it was a real affair of our family. My mom was there scrubbing sinks. My mom was making some cheesecakes. Everyone really jumped and bumped. My sister was one of our first employees. Oh, it was a family affair. It's just a manager base of the game. How old were you both at this time? 30? Oh, what was it? 24? I think I was 33. Yeah, that sounds about right. So early 30s. Yeah.

What was the original menu? It was just pizza. When did the burger arrive? So before the burger, we had like five pasta's was this fully new something. Great Brooklyn base pasta and then

that was my real passion too because I always wanted to cook pasta like a pasta restaurant with

pizza and then the big burger comes around. Oh, that was board of eating pizza. Yeah. And so the burger started as something for him. Actually, it was the wings first. That's where that sauce came from. We had an employee named Tim Win and he really was the catalyst for the Emmy sauce and was crafting and playing and then merged the wing sauce with Mayo and the Emmy sauce emerged. I made a put a crispy pig ears with the wing sauce on it and I drizzled the cuppy mayo on top

Because that sauce was so much better that we started making it for the family meal. How long into this experiment does that happen? That's probably a year and a half. That far? I thought it was like six, seven months and it's all such a brilliant share.

“I think that was like June of 15. Oh, maybe it was about a year then okay because we hadn't”

taken any vacation and I was gone with my family when that whole infatuation article came out.

Anyway, Matt put the burger. It was for him. How well was the restaurant doing in that first year?

It was the kind of immediately successful. We were making money. Both of us were working there. 16 hours a day. So we're taking positions 25 years. Yeah. It was rough and we were purposely closed on Tuesdays because most restaurants are closed Monday and we want to go at the dinner. Yeah. I was open on Tuesday night. I created every single guest and he made every single pizza that first year. Yeah. It was really. It was a lot. But it was working from right away.

Yeah, it was. We went for the first time. You guys would have already been open for probably three or four years. Yeah. Because it was a live show. 19 probably 2009. When was our Brooklyn live show? I'd say around 18 or 19. It still was in a location that would scream this restaurant should be there. And I'm sure the neighborhood's only gotten better in those four years since you opened. So to me,

it doesn't seem obvious you guys would have picked that spot. There's not a bunch of other great

restaurants all around. Maybe increasingly so, but certainly not at the beginning, right? No, not at all. Good neighborhood places. You hit the timing lottery and that a lot of people were moving to Brooklyn and probably people going to go out and pay for a nice meal. I found you because I was doing the thing I do when I go to a new city, which is what are the best two restaurants or

“best restaurants? And I think you were on either. The 38. Yes, you were on the 38. You did best”

burgers specifically. Maybe I did. I think so. Because you were like, we got to go have the burger. And I had actually already been. I'd been to the West Village one with your kids when Chris and was shooting a movie there. So this was early. This must have been pretty soon. I was shooting at the games. You were shooting at the game? Yeah. And she was shooting like father. And the kids were really little and I was there to babysit. I went there to go help.

And I must have found like, oh, there's this good pizza place and I took them. There's a picture of me and the little kids like at the pizza place. I was like, the pizza's so good. I could not believe how good it was. And then the burger unfortunately I have not really gone back to the pizza. I want to go back for that. She drugged me. I got to show that night. And I had shot the night before a live show up to like one in the morning to go red eye landed as I

I'm going to sleep until the show and just like we've got to try this burger. So I was a little like, what are we going to do here? And then I know you've heard me tell the story I'm sure or has gotten to use we got there. And at that time it was $27 for the burger. And I go, this is fucking nuts. This is the biggest moniker. It's $27 for the burger. It's like three bites. And I look at her and I go, this is the most under-priced burger I've ever had in my life.

I was $55 for this burger and I was. Also it was packed when we got there. Oh no, we might not be able to get in. And we went up right when it opened at like five. Yeah. Oh. Okay. So it's working right away. And what are the stresses? Your comments, you know, you guys are both working around the clock. You guys, I guess, have Tuesday to not be co-workers. How's that all simmering? Not well. Not well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard, right? It wasn't like not well or just like we couldn't

take that day off and just like not worry about the restaurant. There's always a way to show up and

then the food delivery doesn't happen. That Tuesday, we couldn't be like, let's just go at the dinner and chill and not worry about the rest of the burger. We're always like checking our phones. We're always worried about the restaurants. I think people really do underestimate the amount of work of requires to start a restaurant when do you say they do? Yeah. And when you do it with your partner and we were very solid. I mean, we'd been together for a long time and felt solid. We weren't

able to compartmentalize and everything three clock in the morning arguing in bed over something. I feel like I should have said hop until any squad opened. Maybe. I think the original restaurant we were a little more. You were in the probably honeymoon phase of having created something that's been in. Yeah. And then we were in the second one. I mean, ask Ebu, he might. Our dishwasher is the keeper of all secrets. There's no office because the restaurant basement is

so tiny so we would get in fights in the little wine room and poor Ebu would be like turning the volume up on his jazz. Oh, I think I think a big rift was that Matt was in his calling. I have just these memories of looking across the dining room. It was an open kitchen because we wanted it to feel like an extension of our home. We love to like host things. And he would be at the oven glowing in what he was supposed to be doing. And I was missing the mark. I'm very

good at operations and systems and hospitality. And I was doing well in terms of my performance. But I was really struggling as a human because it wasn't aligned with how I wanted to be spending

“my time. That's why I dragged you into it. Yeah. I was melting down. I didn't have the”

resolution. He was living his dream and you weren't living your dream. Yeah. And the pressure.

be like, I don't want to do this. And it was just like she was always good at it. But it was also

like I was Emily of Emily, which was weird as an identity thing, too. Yeah. But I would say to when couples work together and I've worked with my wife a bunch of times. Generally if someone's having a very stressful moment in their job, the other person necessarily isn't having their most stressful moment. Right. And then vice versa and often there it becomes a nice rhythm of like, okay, it's kind of my time to take up some space and now it's your time to take up some space.

When you're in the exact same pursuit, you're both dealing with the exact same stress at the exact same moment. So it's like there's no one around who's like outside of the bubble that can be the outside objective person going like, yep, I know and you're trying to come for your sister was kind like that. It's tried. Yeah. It's just the girl. Yeah. In your partnership, you want your partner to be a source of comfort. And if you guys are both experiencing the same stress, not either of you can really

be it's different with us. Obviously because we're not in a relationship. But we're at the same

stress level at the same time always when it comes to the job. That causes fights. Yeah,

cause friction. If we can't fill the schedule, we're both stressed out dealing with that and then something else pops up and it's like, oh, yeah, we're already our baseline is like freaked out about two weeks from now. Or we might have different fields of opinion on how to handle it and we both

“care about it. It's very complicated. That was a big part of it. I think we operate from very”

different perspectives in terms of how we manage and we're very different people and are very suited not to be together, working or in relationship at this point outside of friendly relationship. Now. Yeah. And that any kind of fissures that were under the surface that we didn't notice in terms of we grew up together and we became very different people. So that was really amplified by the pressure cooker of that circumstance. Yeah. I don't even need to ask what the different

vibe was. It's very obvious to me. You're very kind of laid back and you're on a spiritual surf mission. A pizza surf mission. And then you're going to figure everything out. Get it done. Yeah. Yeah. We also had different problems at different times in the restaurant. She's very good of front of house stuff. I don't know a lot about that. So she did that thing and she'd be frustrated by employee problems. They're like liquor deliveries. So we got that. And then I'd be in the back of the

house and same thing, which is like the dough doesn't rise correctly. We were hamburger buns didn't come in. We would have different stresses and try to lean on each other, but we'd have different stresses and they also trying to come together. So you're not terribly sympathetic to the other person. Yeah. Yeah. You don't think it's going on student by one. It was a big deal. Was there ego stuff happening? Sharing the sharing. As they started getting, is you started getting written

“about and accolades are coming. Is that child one of them we're taking care of all that, right?”

All that stuff. She was good at it. So she is good at it. Yeah. Good at the publicity. She's good at doing interviews, setting stuff up and she comes in. She's like don't treat the smile. Yeah. Don't speak too quickly unless it's a podcast today. Yeah. But did you Emily were you like, I'm not really getting the bread. I'm doing a ton of the work. I'm making sure this thing runs. But the chef created. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like maybe it was the opposite. And I mean, I don't know. Matt

named it after me, which wasn't expected. We really couldn't land on a name. And so then suddenly he named it Emily. And then it becomes this personality that I'm wearing, which was very strange in terms of my identity at that time. And yoga and poetry were stripped away because there was no time for anything else. And so I was very much that. And because I was forward facing, I do feel like maybe there was some unconscious under the surface friction where you were doing all of this.

But I was the person with a camera on me, even though you didn't want that. Yeah. Like I've created the burger. And then Emily's doing an interview about how great the burger is and just

“one of these awards. I might be like, yeah, but also my great. Right. She's a high person then, right?”

Why would I try to force my way and to do something that she's better at doing? She's not going to come and cook the burger. I mean, that's extremely helpful. It is. Point of view. Yeah. But

under stress and everything else that would be hard for me to always manage. I'm okay with

her being Emily and being front facing. And I'm like, I've made the food in the back. It's the mom and pop shop, right? But it got very complicated. So we open the West Village. We literally signed on with our growth partners, open the West Village. Did they approach you or did you go seek for us with all the acclaim and everything? And then that same month is when our marriage fell apart. And so then the brand is pizza loves Emily. It's built on our love story. And that

felt very challenging. And I think that's when personalities, egos, whatever you want to call it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I thought more people would care that we got divorced. And this had some publicity, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think a lot of people know. I was going to say I got to point. Before we get there, when we go to the village, we name Emmys Square. It's still pizza loves Emily. But it was like a mishmosh. Well, Williamsburg came first. Williamsburg did. That was

the fact that it was me squared. Pizza loves Emily was Williamsburg. No, it was. So we have Emily

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“burg Illinois. Okay. So what is Emmys Square? How's it going to differ from Emily?”

Matt wanted to do a second concept wanted to grow the brand. I want to have a square slice place right next door to the original one. He used to make a lot of the cocktail sheet pan pies for us at home, which was delicious and loves a freak out crust right. And so found this back door entry into what the amazingness of Detroit sell pizza in order to bunch the frozen from buddy. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, he grew up eating that buddies. So my name, he called me Emmys and so is Emmys

Square pizza. Second location and he squared. And that also took off and has a great burger on that menu. Yeah. But Matt is a different burger. You created the big Mac for Emmys Square. Correct. Yeah. So now here's the part I really relate to, which is I'm my own identity and then my wife has her own identity. And then we have a shared identity, which is us doing commercials together. I know I read an interviewer. You were talking about that fear of, oh, we have this other thing. We have this

combined identity, which is these restaurants. And they're famous, these restaurants. And they're getting written about new winning lots of awards and stuff. And yeah, that's an interesting third

“person in a relationship. Every couple has a shared identity at a dinner party. But I think when you”

have a very public facing shared identity, it's quite complicated. Would you agree? You can start feel like you're servicing this third thing and not the original thing. I think a struggle for me with that was it felt performative. And that's not how I operated in terms of the founding of the original. And Matt, what do we say? It's a business. It's not emotional. It's a business. It's not personal. I think the original was personal and emotional. Well, so in terms of that third member of the

relationship, that was our custody battle during the divorce was the reason we still co-own and operate Emily's because neither of us could part with it. That was the child. Do you want to have shared a city no matter what? It really complicated things. And then the copy for the cookbook was do that summer that our marriage fell apart. So I'm writing our love story. Emily, the cookbook. Yeah. We met all of your love. All of pizza sitting on the floor of the dorm. So it was all just

very weird. Yeah. Did you feel fraudulent? Yeah. And were you starting to wonder like if I let that whole identity go who am I? Yes. And I took a leave of absence from the business because I

couldn't function because of that tension in terms of all of it. Yeah. I left and never really

came back in in the same way because then pandemic came and everything changed and I mean it all worked out for the better. But that had a huge impact on my role as an operator of the business. How were you dealing with the death of this third identity? I sort of mentally left also. I also kind of going through the process of it. And I think restaurants, they can be like a beautiful stage, like a staged area. I'll try to separate personal feelings and restaurants just

being like, okay, we're going on and it's more just like let's do this performative thing. And then like you know, we've done and then what I'd been mentally basically checked out. Not that you're an abusive relationship, but it doesn't remind me of like share was hating, loving was sunny. And then they would go do the show. It's actually loved the show because they could be their old selves there. It was like this weird little sanctuary from all their problems.

It was always weird when Emily wasn't at the restaurant because it's just like,

I don't trust anyone but her to be in front and do that stuff. Because even though we had our differences like in the marriage, always the restaurant, there's never like an argument about it really. It's just like this is what we're doing. And we knew it. We always have each other's back when it came to the restaurant. So when she wasn't there, I just felt the loan there by partner.

“This is not here to guarantee it's going to go well because that's what she does. Yeah. Nice to know.”

Thank you. Thank you. I say to this to my wife all the time when we work together, I literally can't help but say like, oh, you're my favorite person to work with. You're so good. Always. Immediately you're easy to work with. If we got divorced, I'd still love working with her. She's still the easiest person for me to work with. She's just such a professional. And we have such a communication working together. And she's always got your back to it.

Yeah. It's very fascinating how you can have these compartmentalized relationships with the inner relationship and all of it's happening at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. There's no breathing room.

in everything's muddy and it's a soup. But worth the breaking points not connected to the restaurant. I think they were connected to the restaurant. It was so a meshed. I mean, our life was just that. And we were angry at each other. And I don't want to speak for you. But I feel like it's fair to say, we were angry at each other and just not on the same page and our interests were divergent.

You guys did this amazing thing in the New York magazine. Maybe I read unhitched or something.

Some of your times when my first book came out. Yeah. You were saying, I mean, look, you guys met in college as sophomores and you're now into yoga and you're on a path and you're a chef.

“Dude, that's what you live for and want to pursue and they're not getting closer to”

gather these interests. They're getting further apart. And neither of you want to do each other's thing per se in the off time. That's getting older. Yeah. You just kind of grow up and our friendship took up. Obviously because we're divorced. Yeah. But like after that, come back together. We're still fans of each other being in the original restaurant. We still have each other back when it comes to the original. That took years, though. Yeah. But you know, on the other side,

yeah. We both grew up until like adults with separate interests. We can still have relatable things like the restaurant and just life in general. We've had some of our first healing conversations about our relationship just this past year. But yeah, that's how long this is because it looks from the outside that you're very comfortable with one another and still good friends. You're both remarried. Yeah. Exactly. We're much more suited to be with his wife. His lovely

my husband is amazing. Some people never get there, right? After a divorce, where they can say that.

They can say his wife is lovely. And that doesn't happen all the time. So you guys obviously

“took some care. I think that she's here to referee while we've been in LA together.”

Some on this week, but I would have been serious for sure. Oh, right. I went to work. Yeah. I had his number blocked up until I guess we sold him. He's quite good to know because I think most people can't relate to it. Well, we got the person. We're just still best friends. That's not normal. No, yeah. There was a lot of drama, a lot of pain. And it's only recently that in our therapeutic work separately. I mean, I think a big part of it was

which we just recently talked about. We both come from very codependent family of origins. And so at 18 and 20 years old, we just perpetuated those behaviors. And now that we can look back and start unwinding some of those narratives, it's like, oh, we can see how we were doing that and how we're different than that now. So this is actually the healthiest I feel like we've ever been honestly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What kind of pains came with growing? I think that seems daunting,

perfecting Emily seems doable. And then two more, how was that challenging? And how do you oversight it? And you guys must have both heard so much about having the same quality at all three. What were the kind of the challenges that were popping up? Before you get to the food, I didn't want to grow it. Let's get back to our life. Emily is functioning. I don't want to do more. And Matt was like, this is our chance to do this. We're doing it. And thank God. I mean, we did it

changed our lives. But I think that was a core moment of strife just in terms of, okay, now I'm helping to scale this thing that's already overwhelming me that my nervous system can barely handle completely a hot mess as a human. Yeah, yeah. And I get that by three. Yeah. Think of our scientific approach to it. I knew I wanted to cook the square pies in the convection oven, which is like the big oven with a fan in the back of it. But then like every time you open

the oven, like a cool down, right? And they started inconsistencies, then you need timers, and

“you have to trust who's putting it in. And so what's like, I think it gets or something. I don't know.”

As long as like chain pizza places, that's a conveyor belt oven. And I was like, oh, you know what? This is every time a pizza goes through, it'll be the same. You know, saying, won't lose any heat, such a complete opposite of wood for our oven. We're like so high maintenance, and you get your temperature right in your hot spots, you know, this and that. So it's like, well, I just made the actual cooking process easier. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, it gets top and then it goes in.

And then it comes up. His labor is impossible to monitor when you're scaling. Yeah. Yeah. Having even that little control where you could take one person out of the kitchen was helpful. But then obviously Emily's dealing with the front of house and just a whole new squad of like, there's no way to recognize that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thankfully, you're a teacher because I like walk up stairs in the kitchen and there'd be like a white love my chart paper. Yeah, sure. Okay, for a chart paper,

basically teaching this staff how we want this done and being a teacher really worked out for that.

Yeah. I really enjoyed doing staff trainings, especially as the Emmy-squared organization grew. I helped open a few of those restaurants and would do that and build the curriculum for that in the early days. And so that was an enjoyable part of scaling things. But how do you maintain the special texture and dimension of this ethos, this energy with 30 locations? Yes. Yes. Before we get to that, where did the crinkle cut French fries come from? It's a waffle fan. Yeah. The waffle fries. Yeah.

I usually cook and put stuff on the menu that I want. Yeah. So the original restaurant has straight fries. Emily West Village has curly fries. Yeah. That's right. I don't know if it still does. But then Emmy-squared has one. How it has waffles? That one does waffle fries. It was village of just there. Yeah. But they used to have curly fries. So I wanted each one of my restaurants have different fries. I'd go to the restaurant. These are the fries I want to eat today. Yeah.

“But when you sit down and design a waffle fry, what does one do?”

Oh, these come in frozen. Oh, okay. Okay. We were making our own fries at Clinton Hill. It wasn't sustainable. Well, we served like 10 burgers a night before I got popular. Yeah. You know, so it's like making your own fries. It's easy because we're in salt 10 burgers and like 300 pizzas. And then when the burger explodes, it's like, oh,

yeah, if you've never stood at the counter in an in an out and watched them actually make the

fries manual, there is some one on that fucking other. Yeah. That's not a great way to make fries. Yeah. You want to look up your fries. You cook them then you've reason then you cook them again. Is that what happens? I did three cooks. I do like a cooking a baking soda bath. So like circulate them in a circulator and then do a par fry until they got slightly brown. And then we cool them down and portion them in a little baggy. And then when the order comes in, then it goes in the fryers.

No wonder. I do feel like I'm going through six or seven layers for the waffle fries. Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch. Oh, gooey. It's a good fry. So once the three were up and running, weirdly, I can't believe I've never been to the Williamsburg one. I mean, I was just learning that. I was dead. I've never done it. It's so beautiful too. We had like this cool bar in the basement. The burger bar. The burger bar is the basement.

Oh, yeah. The bar is the bar down there. Yeah, that part of the neighborhood changed a lot during COVID. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Right down by the BQE. So those three, you had the original. Then you

had partners in the second and the third, right? And is it the same partners that then became a part of

this 30? Yep. So we have this restaurant, business man, Howard Greenstone, who found us and I had strange random like family. I grew up. I grew up. I grew up next door to his brother's family. So like his nephew's and I grew up together. Oh, yeah. So weird. But there were many people sniffing around and it felt like with that connection, Howard was the person. He had the vision to scale it in this way that we didn't have those skills. And so he really shepherded this journey into what

Emmy squared has become. Does he call him say, hey, we have one here? Does he call him say, hey, what do you think about being here? There's like a big research team now. So we have a real stage of lawyer

“and they are in charge of. Let's look at this lease. Is it a good lease? Is it what we're looking for?”

For traffic. Assessing our name. Yeah. It's not a serial like when we found the original or we found like when we were west fillers. Yeah. It's like we stumbled on them and they were cool. Well, it was in our heart. And now it's a company. So it's a little bit different. Yeah. But when we found the locations, we were like, oh, these are exciting locations. But now it's just sort of a little more like corporate people finding the right way. Well, we're working this. Yeah,

like especially with the vitamin E restaurants. It's not about your gut feeling or yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You still have to be kind of an expert on the area to understand. Yeah. So do you guys like Ray Crocket and drive around and stop at different ones to check the quality? We're used to. We haven't done that since it got very big. Yeah. Yeah. Because at some point you almost have to get out of it. The worst year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Personal things. What happens if you go in? And then you're like,

oh, I don't like this about this. That's too much, probably. Micro-managing with a 30 restaurants as a matter of fact. I mean, it's a dumb analogy. But like, yeah, if we had to go listen to a podcast with somehow armchair expert, but it wasn't us. That would be very bizarre. Yeah. I can hardly even imagine what that experience would be like. Just say for me, it was a little bit of relief in a way where we have a corporate chef. He takes care of the training. If I wanted to do something,

he'll make it happen. I was a Nashville a few weeks ago with him. Yeah, we start coming to some dishes and it's fun and that can be creative. It could be creative. But he can implement all that. Every single restaurant have different ordering people. So he's good at that. It is, though, we are whenever I'm in the city, I'll go to the West Village and walk by or take my picture there. But to be the person who was picking out things down to the pink color on the

walls, which was mushroom-bisc by the way. We have to have mushroom-bisc. The ceiling is taken not stirred. Fun facts. But nobody in that restaurant would know me as Emily or if I call it I'm like, hi, I'm Emily. I mean, like I walk into the front of the house there. They wouldn't know I'm Emily of Emily. I can go see Oz in the basement, sure. But it's different to be removed in that way. Yeah, it doesn't feel sad. It just feels like a very different time in place in my life.

And then Emily original though, our first hire, Ibu, shout out Ibu, he's this amazing talented

Senegalese artist, by the way, who is our dishwasher extraordinaire. But he's been there since day one, Sammy. Sammy is the birch that we've ever been wearing. We have a lot of folks that have been with us through the whole thing at the original. But it changes when a company grows. So he's the head chef, Sammy. So he's been there for 12 years now.

“I think he started 2015 about a year. Yeah, about a year. And he was a prep guy.”

Thank God for Sammy. And then it doesn't matter where he's by, yeah, somebody just didn't show up to work on Sammy. That's could be burgers. And then the first day, he's up there

you got him in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a mysterious. And then it's like thousands of years cooking every single bird. And he'd watch me every single

time. He didn't like touch your burger until like six months and basically because I just had him

there. He's like, on the end, putting the sauce on the burger, we just go through it over and over.

“Oh my god. I'm starving. I want the burgers. Yeah. I guess that's what I get these.”

I mean, in retrospect, we should have coordinated so that he could have cooked you burgers. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've gotten the kit like four or five times. Yeah, it works out very well. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bold belly. If you can't get to a restaurant that will yes. And the hack is instructions are perfect. They really walk you through it. But putting the bun on the patty wall, it's sizzling is pre-mode to get it nice and steamy and juicy. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So things blew up. You retreated to New Mexico. Before that, I was just hunkered down in Brooklyn helping open a yoga studio there. Okay. It's a four new Mexico pandemic or after. No, just two thousand eighteen. That's right. Between us. Oh, okay. In the art of color, there was a big fight in front of Emily. Yes. That was time to regroup. I spent the night in central booking in downtown Brooklyn. Yes, you're arrested for hitting back with a bag. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We're going to have

“the talk about it. I was charged with a salt with a weapon for him this bag. Oh, yeah. Boy,”

she was in there walking. No, I. Yeah. And she's an essay for teaching at Kuni. I had just a bunch of

colleges to grade. So you just took your aggression out. Yeah. I lost it on him in a way. I've never

been so disembodied. I found out something about someone he was dating and it activated me and two officers were walking by. It was so random. Two calcic puffed out of the subway exactly when I had to go. As opposed to do their basic duty and deescalate, what was clearly a marital dispute and solved the problem. They wound up handcuffing me, interesting me. And I was taken downtown right at like five o'clock. So then I wound up staying overnight. Oh, god. Yeah. Oh, god. It was horrible.

My mom had chemo the next morning. So my dad and my mom and my sister and her brand new husband, who was like, what the fuck's going on in this family? We're like walking around in downtown Brooklyn trying to get enough money out of the ATMs to like stuff it in my sister's pockets so

“that tomorrow she could come out and make bail. And that was the lowest moment of my life.”

I was going to say what kind of emotional clarity came from sitting in the jail. The beauty of that was that moment changed my life because there was also a restraining order put on me to be around him. All of this was dropped in sealed and dismissed. But because of that, I was very much pining and desperately wanting to keep the restaurant alive and begging and pleading and Matt was just firm line in the sand like this is over a moving on which thank god he held that

boundary because as much as I beat up against it, that was good. But the restraining order was a next level of like boundary or else you're gonna be in trouble and I actually met my forever husband, Jeff. So I spent the night in central looking on Thursday and then I went on a date with Jeff that Monday night and my friend at the yoga studio. I was very erratic that week and I feel like I went on a bunch of dates and she was like maybe you shouldn't be going on dates right now and I was

like I'm going on this date with the guy I'm going. And then I wanted telling him everything and he thought it was hysterical. He's my husband. But that boundary of the restraining order, this was done. I cannot go over there. I saw this beautiful, the room equal, the wound is where the light enters on the side of this church that next morning and the light just entered from the depths of the wound. Yeah, yeah. So the universe is weird and you probably needed some weird nudges in the form of a

restraining order. So go, okay, now we have to choose another path. Yeah. This one is a dead end. And there was the most amusing part about that restraining order. So the cookbook was now at this point about to debut. Oh my god. And so there was a caveat in the restraining order that I was

allowed to be with Matt for the book launch. Yeah. And that was the first time. The first time we saw

each other from the moment of this thing on the street. The main light was sitting at green light door, signing cookbooks. And you were pretending. The love, right? Yep. It was all this is so human. I love it. Oh, God, it was awful. This is the main meal in here. In retrospect, they escorted me down to this subway police station. It's a quick skimo horn in Brooklyn. And like take your shirt off, so we take pictures of you. And how's this like? And after it's a documentary

stop all over my side here. And they're like, you take your shirt off. I was like, I don't really want to be in the police station. Yeah. Not even that hard. Yeah. I was completely lost. You. I was going to feel like I don't want to say you deserve it. I don't know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so pretty imagine like a cop. And so we're like, all right, take your shirt off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, I'll get you shirt off. Probably both were like, what is my life? I shouldn't have gone. Well, the rest

was doing so well to have your business be doing so well in your personal life be doing so poorly. That's

it feels like if you're like me and your modus operandi issues always going to drop to me and

somewhere be called for me and validating my story. Interesting. Which is like, yeah, I knew it's you're going to be true. I don't deserve this. Look what a fucked up messes is because of course, this is too good for me to have. It's a good posture. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like in some weird way,

“the beat guns are like, yeah, that's right. That's what it should be because I don't deserve.”

That's spectacular. I spent that everyone loves and are getting awards for it. But it's tricky because then you can self-sabot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, we're so weird and complicated. I love it. My sister was at that point on the emergency call list to pop in for a service at the bar. And so this all happens and our manager is like, fuck, okay, I need to call Emily's sister. And so my sister is at some sort of event. And she's getting calls from Meg.

Thinking to Thursday night, Meg is calling me to come in and through a bar shift at the restaurant. I'm not picking up. Meg keeps calling her. She's like, why the fuck is Meg calling me? I'm not going

to work tonight at the restaurant. And then she finally picks up. And it's like, oh, your sister

is somewhere in the New York City prison system right now. Wow. Wow. They're going to throw the health elchopwood to at the same time. Yeah. They're a same time as if. Oh, my God. Okay. Now. The second chapter of everyone's life, which is landed beautifully. So you went on the date with the dude on a Thursday after the Monday arrest. But you do go to New Mexico to Santa Fe to do some kind of a grieving workshop. I was seeing this amazing acupuncture during the separation of divorce and she was

giving me these homework assignments. Like, go flirt with a brewery, stop get me into some competency,

“things that were low stakes. And then finally, she was like, you need to go take a trip by yourself,”

somewhere, do something. I googled writing retreat in New Mexico. I had no reason to type that in and up pops this writing your story of loss and transformation, which was a grief for treat at this beautiful center called Ghost Ranch, which I highly recommend. I landed there and was like,

I've never felt called somewhere like this. And so I want to get here. And pandemic just for an

array of reasons expedited that experience. So yeah, we moved there in 2022. And then got married. And if you look at pictures of me from when I was arrested and when I was at the peak success of my life, I was almost 250 pounds drinking two bottles of wine. And night, you know, like not a healthy human. Yeah. New Mexico has also been just this resurgence of me getting to be me. So you live there now permanent when you're a yoga. I am. I call on and direct a studio called yoga source. Yeah,

God, so you got there. Yeah, self advice comes more interesting than, and you publish divorce business partner. Yeah, which I saw is on your shelf. Yeah. Yes, we have. So what year did that come out? That came out in 2024. There's a great poem in there about my night in jail, just saying. Okay, but really functions in jail. Oh, yeah. We love bodily functions. Yeah. And then my second book is coming out. My wife's little ghost there officially in July. And that's all poems. It is yet narrative

poems. So that's about processing the abortion I had during our divorce to add more strife to the whole situation. Sure. I wound up getting through it. Yeah, a week after everything fell apart. And so processing that experience of grief through the lens of psychedelic therapy, which has been just life changing for me. Silicibin or Ayahuasco. Silicibin predominantly. Okay. And LSD? No, some MDMA therapy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a preventative double mastectomy three years ago.

And so I started the psychedelic therapy to help integrate what felt like a very frank and stiny. Yeah. Yeah. So the MDMA helped with that. And then as I graduated to the Silicibin, this whole experience of healing with who would have been my daughter came through in this book. Wow. So yeah. Just to wrap up your story. And you kind of said it. I'm having the greatest success of my life and things are the lowest. I think this is bizarrely common experience and to think that

“you're happiest now. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you, okay. So how did you meet your wife?”

You ended up absconding to Austin, which is my favorite city. Well, we got a good barbecue truck there. Oh, I'm going at the end of the month. Where is this barbecue truck 15 this north of the river? Let him feed you barbecue by the campus. No, it's about the campus. Probably by Europe, what's your hotel you like? Oh, Commodore Perry. Yeah, it's beautiful. Oh my god. The food is so good. Is it anywhere near there? No. It's near where like all the big tech campuses are. Oh, okay.

She gets arrested. She has, uh, she has a restraining order. She goes on her journey. What do you do after that arrest? How do you start to rebuild our business partner Howard created a restaurant out of nowhere for me to like do something to escape to. Yeah. We got

We did grilled pizza just like Alphorno and Providence, which was our favorite restaurant. Ooh. We did grilled pizza and then like it just couldn't survive through pandemic. People took advantage of the protests to like riot. That was unfortunate because the protests were happening and we were supportive, but then we got broken into and I would look at our stall and so like people were abusing the protests. Yeah. And then it was like, fuck, it took everything's like trash. Really,

when you win a Michelin start, it was ripple of the start. It's a big warm on. Okay. It's almost a start. Do they present you with a plaque? Yeah. It's on my kitchen. Okay. So the plaque is on your kitchen. And that could a times review to violent, right? Yeah. Yeah. The people else is from Rhode Island and we kind of simmered island the stuff. So after like a month, he reviewed it like quickly. We caught America twice and then Dale told it. Really quick. These reviewers come on an ounce, obviously.

Yeah. Yeah. But like I wouldn't know. And what happens when they arrive? Everyone shits their pants. Yeah. Everyone's like, yeah. He's here. Dale was more experienced with dealing with reviewers. So he's just like, we make two of every dish. And then we taste each one and then one goes out to him and the other one just doesn't matter. Go in the trash. Well, it goes to the by dishwasher. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was very good with that. Scary. Yeah. Also, how do you

“take a bite out of each dish without fucking up the dish? Well, it depends on the dish, right?”

It was like we bit a bird. Yeah. Or our pizza. Probably the sauce all the way. Yeah. Like, you know, he ordered a few pasta's. Okay. I had met some on maybe a few months before that opened in New York. In New York. Yeah. She had a restaurant nearby called Little Tongue. Or she had a few of them.

I'd been to them. But like I never knew her. And then I became friends with her

publicist. And then we started going and then kind of start dating through that way. Do chefs share a common bond? Yeah. We would like to complain to each other by like labor and people not showing up and things have gone wrong. So yeah, there's a camaraderie there of chefs. Compared to there are a lot of female chefs, compared to male chefs, New York. You know, when I met Simone, I was like, oh, cool. Is it a female chef? Yeah. That's hot. That was in May of 2019.

And then we started really dating October. And then she got pregnant like three months later. Oh, wow. She was pregnant all during pandemic. And our son was born in August of 2020, which was so bizarre to bring a baby in at that time feels like, ah, we didn't know if groceries would be infected. Right. Right. Those times as they'd wiped down groceries, we didn't know what to do.

In the hospital. Yeah. Also, New York was uniquely visible and hard compared to other places.

Luckily, the hospital, we're in it to late opening because of pandemics. So we were one of the first

people ever. Oh, really? It was cool. Oh, yeah, with the sheets. Yeah, it's tip of ribbon at the door. Baby. Oh, wow. Wow. I was at a hospital in New York. Also during the pandemic, right before the pandemic. It's terrifying. Like, week or two before. Oh, wow. My seizure and guess what after the seizure of Chris and then I went to Emily. Oh, so that's right. Because I remember you sat at the chef's table. Yeah. And then everything closed

“down right after that. Exactly. It was like third week in March, I think. Oh, you had the first baby.”

She had the last burner. Yeah. Exactly. I had my birthday party. And then like two days later, March 12th, it was like, that's it. Everything's closed. Yeah. So how do you end up in Austin? We were living Clinton Hill, like, right down from the restaurant. And then I was like, I was born in New York and then I lived in Connecticut for a few years and then the next 20 years.

I'm in New York again. So I never lived anywhere other than the city. So I want to leave.

I think a lot of people that are in pandemic were just like, I'm leaving. Yeah. I was changing. Yeah. Like a lot of the New Yorkers went to Miami and California and Switzerland all in Austin. Didn't want to go to Miami. It was like, all right, it's awesome. Yeah. It would go really California's go. It's a city that I've always loved. Great food. I'd really like to say good food. Late back. It's easy to get around. Everything's no more than 20

minutes away from everything else. So it's like a big town that's just really friendly and cool. It is. And then how quickly do you decide? Let's open a restaurant here. Swung up pregnant again. We had our daughter. You say it like you don't know how this happened. I don't know. Yeah, all the time. She got pregnant. Yeah. It's Mr. So then we were really looking for spaces for maybe a year. And then we stumbled upon this one that had a smoker and it so we had some

Chinese food with some smoke stuff. And then we opened the barbecue place. We met our pit master famous Jonathan Logos from Terry Blacks. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he was like one of the pit guys from there.

“He's like our Austin Sammy. He's like a big gentle man. Do you ever go to warro?”

Yeah, I love warro. I love warro. So I'm wondering how are you in your Chinese wife fusing your backgrounds into one restaurant? Is it a hybrid? We closed it. But the Chinese restaurant was sort of a hybrid. I like cooking more Southeast Asian food, like Singaporean stuff. And she likes cooking more like Chinese and like French style. So we kind of just had some hybrid dishes there. But you were smoking meat too. Yeah. So it was also a square. Smoking meat.

And then we had a little truck in the patio. So you could get your barbecue there if you want or come in for some Chinese food. And then the sides for all the barbecue we'd made homemade Chinese noodles with a caseaw on it. And they don't. And my step of coming with that gross wife bread, I'll go barbecue does. We are like flaky rotis. Oh, yeah. This is some part of you still want to create another thing. I think going back to Amy Squirt should be fun now because I can

focus on that and just reinvent the menu again. Our partner, Howard, just like if you were to rewrite this menu for 2026, not for 2016, what's the dishes? Yeah. I don't have to see being a

to like carbs and the appetizers. I just too heavy. Stay tuned for our share expert if you dare.

“It's the right time for him to be back there. It feels like in the arc of this whole story,”

he's landed back there at the time in place. It needs him and he's ready to help it come into the next wave of being. Yeah, I'm excited to open a chocolate store of Simone, eventually, but that'll be more of her projects. Who's on the food truck? Are you on the food truck, Amber? Not usually. Like I'm going to visit every week or she designed that menu and taught him how to make everything in the menu. No, no, no. You know, a pit guy taught. He's the man. That's the barbecue savaut. Simone,

I just kind of came with the sides, basically. And then they started doing a burger. There's a

really good burger place in Atlanta, called NFA, this guy's name is Billy Kramer. Do you want a favorite? I'm from Atlanta. It's in Dunlady. Oh my god, I'm going to go. It started in a gas station. Oh, so Billy, I became friends and then we did a pop-up in Austin with him. He's trained

“Jonathan and our other pit guy, Trevor, how to make a burger, right? And then George Mozart comes”

from Hamburg, America, and he starts training them how to do a burger, right? And then our friend Cole from Dream Burger, Nashville comes and then he starts teaching them how to make a burger. So the two of them, they have like these like a three master burger. Yeah, right? And they're like, let's make our own based on what we learned. It's pretty great. I don't make Smash burgers.

They want to do a Smash burger. They put their onions on the smoker. And then they made their special

sauce. So it's like a smoky oniony burger. Oh, yeah, I have a rental car I could do. Yeah, so I have no notes for them. Let's say you guys do your burger the way you want to. Yeah. My last question is, are you able to have some pride in what a successful thing it was even though it ended? I mean, we're sitting here together. Yeah. You, there was a very long time. I didn't think we would ever be here in relationship. And now it just feels like we're family

members who had a falling out and have come back together. And it feels really beautiful to co-own and operate our baby together. Yeah. Every breath gets us to where we are. And so everything that we've done together has informed how we've grown and the amount of learning and resilient skills I've built through the process of navigating our divorce has allowed me to be the person I've become and I'm forever grateful to that and just grateful for the love that we had in the way

that we had in the birth of that restaurant. Exactly. Exactly. I would imagine it's kind of similar to like when divorce parents are at graduation for their kids. Yeah. And they look very, they're like, "Fuck, look what we did." Yeah. Yeah, it just feels very un-pointless.

Well, you guys, this was lovely. It's so fun to meet. There's something we've never talked about a food item

in our lives like our obsession with that fucking burger. I mean, the whole damn spread is beautiful. The fucking, sometimes it's broccoli, sometimes it's called brawl. Brawl, brawl, brawl, brawl. Brawl, brawl, brawl. Brawl, brawl, brawl. Brawl, brawl. Brawl, brawl. Yeah. Good way to trick me into having some veggies. You guys really made something very special. Yeah. And incredibly special. That will probably out live all of us. Yeah. And wait, we wanted to do something special for arm cherries. If you were

game, we thought if anyone gets this far in the episode, we could have like a codeword that for the rest of the month after this episode comes out, they get a free dessert. If they say the codeword is not original. So we know what the codeword is. So do we do too. Let's see. What's the one? Yeah. We got it. It was like, we're going to be that a reverse back, but dolphin is where I guess it's better. I thought dolphin is very good. Yeah. That was where I called it. I guess that. Both are incredibly perverse. But dolphin is

sparing us. I love that. So if you're an arm cherry anywhere near and away. Maybe they can order it. I'll have the dolphin sparing us. Oh, there we go. Okay. It means the burger. And it is. So we'll say, for the two weeks after this episode, that's terrible. Yeah. Yeah. They say that at Emily original. Emily original, they'll get dessert on the house. Okay. Clint now go to Emily original, or the dolphin is sparing us. And you're going to get a dessert on the house. I love it. Yeah. And if you take a picture under Monica, you get extra credit.

Yeah. We want you to cream on a beautiful picture. There's right in the wedding area. It's so nice. A lot of people will

“post that that they're there. Oh, wait. Can I hear a grievance, but it could be wrong. Sure. I believe I have to go”

next to her by Diet Coke and smuggling in. You guys have definitely probably any mother fuckers. What is what you think they shouldn't have Diet Coke? Is it that you're too classy? What's going on? Of course, really. Why wouldn't you? I'm just a Yorker. Why wouldn't you leave this to Lisa? I don't think your work is a big diet Coke. Oh, I think it is. Find the answer of Diet Coke. Our partner, Howard drinks Diet Coke. Okay. Howard knows what's up. Yeah. But let's get Diet Coke at Emily.

back. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have someone to come? Do you have the staff feeling like holonizing? Is like learning the specials that night? Yeah. It's like, what is it? Oh, it's Diet Coke. It's a special thing. We're serving Diet Coke tonight. Well Emily, Matthew, this is wonderful. Thank you so much for coming. It's for coming. Yeah, it's so fun. Everyone check out my wise little ghost. Of course, you could still get Emily the cookbook. It's still a great cookbook.

Whether or not it was fraudulent and it's messaging at the time. The recipes are still great. Yeah, the recipes didn't know. So thanks for coming. You guys. This is great. Thank you. Yep. We all be willing to join this episode. Unfortunately, they made some mistakes. I broke my phone yesterday. Oh, I cracked the front. Okay, so you're in a little big room? No, I'm not going to be at all. All right. I cracked the screen and it's crazy how much it hurts my feelings when that happens.

How did it happen? I was doing what I do often, which is try to save trips by carrying way too many

things. I mean, I'm never going to learn this lesson. I'm 51. Yeah. And I will continue to try to

reduce everything to one trip everywhere. So I was doing one of those. I was carrying a lot of different things from the sauna to somewhere else and yeah, and it fell out of my hand. It didn't seem like a biggie. And then I looked and sure enough. Crack, crack city. Oh, man. And I just go like,

“it hurts more than should. I mean, I think because it's your phone and you immediately go,”

oh, I'm going to be without it or it's going to be, I don't know, there's something interesting about it or I'm like, oh, I'm sad. I'm sorry. I mean, that was yesterday. Oh, okay. But do you get sad every time you see it? Well, I have an appointment at 1245 to get fit. Oh, great. Yeah. So I'm on it. I'm on it. Nice. Are you going to the Americana? I am. Nice. Yes. And then we're going to snoop around and I'm bad at this. But I keep asking Lincoln for birthday suggestions. Yeah. Again, ultimately,

I do interpret this as a great thing, which is like, when I was a kid, I wanted everything to be a musician. But I keep out. I'm like, front he's going to come and, you know, I want to be able to give you something. She's like, oh, yeah, I have a list, but I'll give it to you later. Like,

it's just never so I'm presuming it's going to take a minute to fix this thing. So I plan on

producing, which I never do, but I'm going to walk that Americana and see if something leaps out at me that Lincoln would like for birthday. Well, I can advise a little bit. The Americana as much as I love it. Yeah. Shopping wise, it leaves a little to be desired. Okay. There's something like very fancy. Like, there's a Tiffany's there. Oh, okay. So like a buyer, like a $4,000 tennis bracelet. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to, but yeah, you could. Tiffany's pricey, right? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It is. But then they do have some like teen stores. I just don't think you want to go in there. It's like teen clothes stores and like, I'm in there. Yeah. I don't know if it's an amazing like other 13 year olds. Would you like this? Exactly. When I really am just trying to find something for my daughter. I know. But then I get tackled by her father from behind. That's right.

“Would you feel cute in this? Oh, do you think this is flowering out a body like yours?”

But you could really be a totally above board in the questions that you get on her. Yeah, you're really good. Also like the lighting in those stores really hurts my eyes. It hurts your eyes. And there's something I'm like, it's our way. You know, it's when you really feel very old. We're just like, oh, no. This is what they're wearing now. Okay. It's so is it too bright as your issue? That's part of it. Okay. And then the clothes you're like,

I don't relate. I'm just like scared of the clothes. I'm not scared of the youth. I would never

fuck with clothes. That's a stupid. Right. And also I remember sweet grandparents would get me clothes. And then everyone's in a bad position because you feel terrible and you got to act like you love

“the sweater brand. They had picked out for you. Oh. And that's what would be the case. I'd be like,”

oh, I thought this was rap. Oh, whoa. She is wearing on my old punk rock t-shirt. You could have been to shirt. They won't be at the Americana. No, sir. There's nothing old there. It's all new. But there are vintage stores other places in the city. I told you about this is a longstanding grievance. I told you about the one time I was at the Americana. Also for the

So, I went to see a film at that AMC at the Americana. Uh-huh. And I walked by the golden goose store

whatever it is. The shoes. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. The C.G. G. G. G. In a pair of shoes leapt out from the window at me. Okay. And I walked in. Do you have that in 11 and a half? Oh, yeah. We do. Great. I'll take them. Oh, it's just great. Great. Let me sign you up for an account. Okay. What's your email and address? And I said, oh, I don't or a membership. And I said, oh, I don't want a membership. I just want to

“pay because when you have to, you have to sign up for a membership. And I said, you won't sell this”

to me unless I enroll in some program and said, yeah, like it won't even let me. And I'm like, okay. But thank you. And then I left. Right. And I was like, is that what we have come to

membership? I've never had to do. Oh, good. We're on grievances. I got another one. And maybe I've

already aired it on here. Okay. Stop asking me to rate everything. I'm so fucking sick of, I go to use something. I want to use my food delivery app. And first, I got to be asked to rate it. And then I got to go to you. You don't need me to rate YouTube and all these things. Enough, you don't mind. I can see on your face you're not bothered. It's a pop-up screen. You got to go through. I don't want to see if I just ex out of that. But I don't know where to ask

myself. I click it. Because I, you know, I want the person to get their five stars. Yeah. But you and also you would think if you rated it once that'd be it for the rest of your life. Like, what are you going to rate it every week? Is it a daily rating? But it just keeps popping up. Because also, if you go, oh, fuck it. Okay. I'll give you five stars. And then it says, and then a new screen comes up. Would you like to write a review? Right. And you said no.

I know. But I, oh, why did that? Is everyone need to get reviewed all that? Just let me use the service that I'm paying for. And, and don't ask me to review. Or you go to the doctor. There's three email follow-ups. How was your visit? Please rate your visit? I know. I just ignore it. I know. But it's a lot of traffic that doesn't need to be there. No one needs to rate. Okay. Well, they want to know if they did a good job. Rubby, like, rating stuff?

No, I hate it. Okay. Does the screens, does the screens bother you? Yeah. I'm always in

scap and I get pissed. Okay. Great. I'm not crazy. And then also the gas station. Here's another one. You go to the pump. And it's like, do you want to sign up for a membership? No. Do you want to

“car wash? No. Do you want to receipt? No. And at some point you just want to go, I want gas. That's why”

I came here for gasoline. It's frustrating. It is indeed frustrating. I don't have any grievances. Oh, you probably could have been a bit about that. Let's see. Let me get out of here. Let me do. Let's do it. Do not disturb. Do not be. Do not be. Do not be. Do not be. Please rate the rejection of this call. Was that, was it easy to use? No. Five stars. Okay. So it was easy to use. Five stars to reject that call. Totally. Yeah. Well, let me let me add some positives. Let's see. They have made it easy because I get so many

junk tax messages. I get like, you would think I have a credit score of zero. I get about 15 texts from different numbers. Is this positive every day? Yeah. From debt collectors. They're not real debt collectors. Yeah. They're trying to trick you with something. And what I like now is you can just slide to a raise and it says delete and report junk one button. Love that. Boom. Boom. I love that. Wow. Because I want the junk reported. I want to save other people from it.

And so that feature. I love. Great. Yeah. Congratulations. That's a positive of technology. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I worked out again. How to go? I think well. Okay. So I'm just getting huge. I'm just getting jacked over here too. And I'm really swollen. You spent a lot of time in front of the mirror. I look for how long. Not very long. But I look just to see like, how are my gains? Yeah. Your G and I. I showed you yesterday. You can't see

I'm wearing kind of a long picture. I weren't in a tank top to show off. The gunners. No. Like, I am a sore also. Obviously. But what part are you sore in? I'm sore here. Try that. Yeah. Because I did that yesterday. Yeah. Good. It's a good feeling, isn't it? It is. It is. It is. Yes. I do. I will say I do prefer the feeling after cardio. Then I do the

“feeling after weight training. But that's why I just have to do both. They're time horizons. Really.”

So after cardio, you do get an endorphin blast. For sure. But the muscle thing is a less

reminder like, oh, yeah, I pushed myself. I pushed myself. It's such a steam building. Just all day gentle reminder like, oh, yeah, I pushed myself. Oh, yeah. So it's not like the endorphins spike. But it is. It isn't real elevated self esteem for a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. For command. I know

“that's what he experiences about it. Yeah. So I'm in a tricky situation. This is going to get”

really esoteric. So my letters that I'll be riding in on Monday. That's the outfit you wear to. It's a full leather body suit. It was made for me. It's a gorgeous suit. You've seen it. It's got arm cherries. It's got cherries on the arms. It's got a little homage to Nick Hayden, my friend

who used to race. There's a lot of great. They're awesome. I would never want other pair of

letters. The problem is they were made for me when I was 185. And not only was I 185. I just had a completely different body composition. Yeah. So we have had the suit let out like three times. Like it has been sent. I don't know if he gets sent to Italy or what, but Elpine Stars has who made the suit. They have adjusted it three times. And the lower half, that was the killer. As my thighs got way bit. My thighs got like 30% bigger. And I can barely get them in the suit.

Yeah. So those were fixed. Okay. But now it's the fucking my biceps and my arms. It's so tight. So I just rode three weeks ago. And I'm like, I'm so tight. I can barely feel my hands. That's not good. You need that mobility. So. Okay. Now here's my Sophie's choice. Okay. But this is the cannot believe I'm going to admit this out loud on the show. So I will likely wave the checkered flag at the race. I did last year. Okay. And I hadn't planned it last year.

I just they asked me to wave the checkered flag. And I did. Which starts the show.

No, it's never end of the race. The winner. I'm like I'm in the tower as they come across the

finish line. I'm waving the checkered flag. And this is for the race Moto GP. Not the thing you're writing in. Nope. Got it. Okay. There's the Moto GP. The formula one of motorcycles is on Saturday and Sunday. Yes. Okay. Sprint on Saturday. That's like a legit. That's on TV. That's like a thing. You're going to you're going to wave. And last year I was on TV. Got it. Waving the fly. Okay. I see. And I'm going to tell you, ego maniacally, and with all vanity, I noticed when I was waving the flag.

Oh, your bicep looks awesome. Oh, wow. Okay. It really, like you couldn't miss it. Uh-huh. And I was like, oh, this is cool race. I love people commented. I'm sure they did. Okay. So now I'm kind of addicted to that reaction. Oh, no. So I don't want to do arms for like a week.

Because I'm going to arrive. I also want to do arms like the day before I have to wave the flags.

“So my bicep looks great. Uh-huh. Yeah. Which one? No. You need to be able to ride your motorcycle.”

I think I'm going to pick the flag wave. Yeah. This isn't funny, actually. It is. No. It is a good fall. No, no. It doesn't hamper my ability to ride the motorcycle. How do, of course it does if you're like, I can't even like, you can't even move. This is uncomfortable. I think your arms are huge a week off. I'm going to do it. Exactly. Thank you, Rob. Like, I'm going to continue to look up the video. Give me a wave and the flag. You might change your mind. Well, I know. But how long does it go with that?

Not breaking your neck. How long ago is that, too? If your arms are too big for the suit, that means they're still bigger than that. Well, no. They aren't too big for my suit last year, too. Yeah. But if they're bigger now, too. Why is it sickening? You're going to prioritize that over your like potential. My comfort. You're making it about safety. There's no safety issue. Okay. I can ride them under cycle whether they're tighter.

“It's a comfort issue. Very uncomfortable. Don't you need to be comfortable if you're going to be”

nimble on the bike? No, you don't have to be comfortable. It's just like you could raise the car in uncomfortable seat or comfortable. This is your gymnast and you're in a, um, you're in like high heels. Yeah. They would impede your performance a lot. This won't impede my performance. It's just uncomfortable and then I'll add to it. It determines whether or not I come in and out of the suit. So in between sessions, it's also Texas. So it's going to be like 95 degrees, right?

It'll be hot. I'll be sweating bullets. And when you come off the track on my 30 minutes at downtime, I kind of want to take my arms out of the suit. Now we get into my shoulder issues. This is another thing. With all the surgeries, getting in and out of this. It's the whole things a little rough. So then I'll just end up kind of staying in the suit in between. I can be hydrating. No, I drink a ton of water. There's no hydration issues. If you know

why I drink a ton of water. Yeah, but you're not drinking electrolytes like I tell you. Yeah, I drink hydrating Gatorade when I'm at the track. Oh, yeah. All right. I just, and you're going to get a UTI because you can't take it off because you can't pee.

whole package up over the luthers and then the zippers down there. And so that's all.

“It's tight. It's going to, it might cut off your entire package. Again, that doesn't,”

and that's not affected by the size of my arms. Oh, yeah. Oh, my god. I just, I just, it is by dysmorphia that you can't see that like your arms are as Rob just said huge. Oh, yeah, yeah. And with or without you doing more. Well, that's just maintenance. I'm not like I'm trying to do your personal one week. Your arms are going to look like mine or something. No, I don't. By the way, mine are pretty swells. So you'd be excited. They do look different when I've

pumped him when I have it. I mean, that's just that's bad. But they look huge if you haven't.

That's a whole thing. So you don't have to. I know. So you, you probably have like a shirt that

looks great. And then you might have a blazer. You like to put on over it. And I could be telling you, the shirt alone looks great. You know, yeah, it does. It looks great. I prefer it. My thing is I want to look great with the blazer and the sheet. I know, but if the blazer was a detriment. Oh, please pursue this line of thinking because you and I both know, you operate and grave discomfort to go on the carpet with the super high heels and the dress that's too tight. You've told me I can't breathe.

Fucking hate it. Yes. So you do it for for the picture. Yeah. Not for safe, that not for then me to go do something that's like safety. It's going to impact my safety. These are one for one. No, they're really not. They're really not because you're writing the motors like, I feel you need

“to be, you need to be capable of like, that like doing that if you're about to fly off or something.”

You're not, you're not, you're not listening to me. There's this doesn't at all augment my safety. How could it not? Because because I'm uncomfortable doesn't mean I can't operate it exactly. Can you lift your arms all the way up in it? You can. Yeah. It's just like when you're wearing an extremely tight dress. You're like, oh, this is uncomfortable. Right. So you prioritize your look over discomfort often. Well, okay. I'm going to say one thing. Okay. I actually am somewhere in the

middle. But I don't wear like a super high. Sometimes I look around and I'm like, how are they doing that? I can't. I will look like an idiot. I won't be able to really do it. So I do prioritize some level of comfort and style. But I've been with you when you're like, I can't breathe in this

or my feet hurt. Oh, yeah. I feel always hurt even if. Yeah. So we relate. We know what it's like to

be willing to experience discomfort so that we look a certain way. Sure. Yeah. I'll give you that. I'm more hit. I'm not. I don't care about the day of the time. You wanted to be a safety issue, but it's not. And there's no safety issue. It's a discomfort one. And I'm acknowledging even that's preposterous. I am acknowledging that I want my arms to look a certain way on TV. And I'm willing to be uncomfortable for a whole day at the track. Can I tell you something that's

different? Okay. Me and a flat shoe on the red carpet legitimately looks. I can't. I feel back. Somebody's wearing a flat shoe on the red carpet. They probably look great in it. And by the way, it's just a subject of Monica. You're saying you're saying to me the thing I noticed the difference in is not real. And you're saying the thing you noticed a difference in is real. And I'm saying plenty of people would think you would look just as great not in heels on the red carpet. Do you know

who's not the fashion police? Okay. There's like a legit amount. There's like people who look at your outfit and scouring and say that's not why they do this. Why did they do this? And so for you do have to look sore. You don't have to, you don't have to. I mean, they're identical things. We both want to look a certain way and we're both willing to be uncomfortable to look a certain way. I guess I just don't think the judge. I mean, you're the only one. I'm not judging you for

what's happening on the red carpet at all. Judgment. I'm saying I'm saying the judgment from the outside world. I don't think the outside world is going to see you waving the flag with or without the pump. You think much different. I know you think that just because you're not

“a dude and I think people wouldn't say she looks crazy without high heels on. So we both think”

of that. But Rob said that your arms will look huge regardless. They will look big. Could they look bigger? Yes. You will look very cute. Can you look cuter? Sure. Okay. I mean, these are just really

do something to your leg shape. Like it's not like in veins sticking out of your bicep. Do something

to what they look like on TV. I mean, they're noticeable. Yeah. Okay. We did the same thing. Okay. Okay. I just, I want to, I, you're, that's fine. As long as it's not a safety thing, you just don't want it to. It's just massive discomfort, which I am willing to own. I'm happy to own that. That's preposterous. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. I admitted the other day. I thought when I was done in Florida for rat daddy. Yeah. As I

know, we're looking too big. Right. But then I was like, but it kind of works for that character,

“but I don't want to look at that big. So I don't think I have full dysmorphia. I think I've faced”

dysmorphia for sure. I don't think I see what my face looks like at all. How do we know, you know?

This is where AI help us, I think. This is like, this is like, you know, the age-old, what color are you seeing versus what color am I seeing? Uh-huh. You know, it's like, there's no way to know. And um, not to mention that we're adding in everything subjective, like everything looks good. Something looks good to want for you and Aga. Exactly. Someone's like, I hate muscles. Someone's like, I love muscles. Yeah. This is a whole. I love big noses. I hate big noses. Right. It's all subjective.

And there's a couple consistent ones thing. Well, yeah. I mean, there are people that everyone

can universally agree on. No one's like, I fucking hate perky breasts. I've never heard that in my

life. I've been along for a long time. I've heard I hate big dicks. Yeah, but you've also never heard

“it fucking hate perky. But some people probably hate big breasts. That's why I said perky.”

I know, but like, it's of course a perky if they're non-existent. The male equivalent, I've never heard someone say, like, I hate how wide his shoulders are. I could see someone saying that, depending on who the person is. Yeah. I actually could see myself saying that about it. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't like wide shoulders. Remember? I told you, sometimes like, but that happens. It's too much. That's a different thing though. Right. That's too muscular, not soft.

Yeah. But just the frame of a man having wide shoulders. Well, if they're big as this room, that's too big. I'd love to meet the person who had children. I don't want to meet them. I'm scared of them. Oh, my god. Did you hear about this basketball player who's like seven, eight or something? He's so tall. I was talking about this is Charlie's birthday party.

“And college player or he robbed you know about him? No. Okay. Look him up. He's like, I think”

Romania. He like 16 or something. Or 18. Shack 2.0. I was going to say heights probably the biggest calm. He's taller than Shack. Okay. Seven foot nine Oliver Roo says sound right. That sounds right. Is he like he held his head? Let me find yeah. He's in college. The whole thing is there's been coming. Yeah. That's him. That guy is like seven feet tall. The one next to him. The no. Yeah. We were doing this. We were doing this. I don't know exactly. No, I promise you.

It's like shop. He's 20. I want to watch this kid play. I know. Are they in the? Look at him. All the shankies for the listener. He's standing with his teammates. All of them and presumably they're all above six feet tall. They're all below his shoulders. These are tall men. These are basketball players. And he is and he's behind them. Yes. That also makes him smaller in the photo. And remember like oh my god. That guy's more high. Yes. I guys five seven. No, he's not. That's

why they put him in the picture. This is what we've talked about. Remember? How did you hit after you hit six feet? No, here's your with you. No. Oh, she's five five. You hit that guy five seven because that guy's she said his elbow. She's taller than me. Like listen. One inch taller. This guy really is funny. This guy is is over. Okay. Once you hit six feet, the theory is in this room. Each inch. We think it's four. No, I think it's after six feet. I think you look much taller than

someone who's just six feet. Right. Over someone that six feet in five ten. Yeah. When someone six feet in five ten, you can almost not tell. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I'm on. What is he standing on the ground? Yeah. I need a picture next to him so bad. Yeah. He's holding the rim in his

you're a baby and you like put your arm around your dad's leg and you're like under his knee

and you're just like holding onto his leg. I feel like I'm that for him. You might be right at

“nuts level for him. I wonder his knee. I think it's just holding onto his little leg and I just”

want to meet him. Okay. Can I switch the topic to PSA? Because I think this is a long fun healing journey for me. So I have traveled once since the they have stopped getting paid and I'm about to travel again. Uh-huh. These people have not been paid for one month and they've continued to come to work. I am so in awe of them and I admire what they're doing and I thank all of them when I was going through the airport. But more than that, I was driving me nuts when I was leaving New Orleans.

I'm like I want to bring a five gallon bucket from Home Depot and I want to stay and I'm going

to go like, hey, I'm putting a grand in here. Oh, that's nice. Everyone drop 20 years you go through. Like these people should get fucking paid something nice. And then I'm like, is that allowed? I got really hung up on like, can you do that? Is that allowed? Then I'm then I'm past security now. What? There's a bucket there. No one's making the announcement. So I'm going to take it. Is the PSA allowed? They can't make an announcement. Hey, put money in here. So I'm like,

do I put a sign on there? I got really bogged down with how can I make this happen? So of course I'm about to go to the airport on Saturday and I'm having the same talk. I'm like, I want to bring money and grease everyone I see. Yeah. So guess what? Elon Musk offered to pay for all of their one month of salary out of his own pocket. The whole country. Yes. He offered the White House. He's like, let me pay these people's salary while you guys fight over this. Right. Because like,

we need the airports to function. Yeah. And I was like, oh, thank God. And he's someone who could really just try to check for all of them. Yeah. And they turned it down. Really? Yeah. It makes me, it drives me nuts. Yeah. Yeah. Is there like rules because their government employee? Yeah. There's somehow the explanation was like that somehow he would be viable for something. I'm like, why don't

“we are so bogged down in Bolshefony red tape. It's like, but I think people need to pay it.”

You will could maybe do it. Like, maybe like you. Well, he's an individual. But he was going to do it through the government. No. He just said, I'll write a check to every T. S. Give me their names and I'll pay everyone's past four weeks that they haven't been getting paid. It says it's because of his various government contracts that he's not allowed to do it. Okay. Again, it's all bullshit. Yeah. Well, maybe then Jeff Bezos should do it. Like, someone who probably has government contracts. I'm

sure they cloud compute for the government. Right. Okay. Well, I just hate when like something great could happen. Yeah. And everyone's gonna because of political reasons or they don't want to be affiliated with Elon. It's like, who take his fucking money and pay these people? Oh, yeah, for sure. Um, just whatever the bullshit is is like we have an opportunity to pay these people have been working for a month for free. How are they paying their bills? A lot of them are not trying to

work because they have other jobs. Exactly. I know. It's horrible. Um, maybe, I mean, you could just give some to the people you see. I mean, no, it's not the same. That is what I'm gonna do. But, but also, what I wish was somehow we could all collectively like put a fucking bucket out. If everyone dropped 20 bucks who went through. Yeah. That would that would cover their salary for the day, tens of thousands of people go through LAX. Huh. I don't know how to organize this, but I, I, it drives me nuts. And I

would be happy to pay while, while they're not getting paid. Well, we could try to start something where we started on the show. We, everyone wearing a bucket. What if there's fucking a, there's so pyramid of buckets. And then that became its own problem. My flights weren't getting out. Yeah, exactly. And just the idea that like ice is coming in with zero training, there's no way they're going to help speed things up. You know, they've been deployed to, to, to cover the gaps.

It's like, what could be worse in the speed of the airport than a trainee? Yeah. Basically,

just what a bad plan. They're like putting them at the exits because they said that's an issue.

“Oh, okay. Which is not, uh, exiting the airport's an issue. Yeah. I think maybe if you have the”

means and you have some extra cash, maybe if you can just give it to your TSA. I wonder if they would get in trouble. Like, I wonder if they're forbidden to take money because look, it could look like what they just bribe him is is he's not free. He doesn't have a real pass for his license, not good. He got something through. Exactly. They're going to turn a blind eye. So yeah, be a terrible policy to allow TSA employees who accept money from people. I didn't even think about

whatever. I don't know. What I know is we shant to accept this. This is not. Okay, have an idea.

“Okay. Um, you could host a gala. Okay. Because I'd like to come. Okay. And um,”

I'll wear my suit. I'll wear my letters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That I feel fine about. I'm not worried about your safety there. Um, and then, uh, we can raise money at the gala for for these workers. And like then you can do what Elon was going to do. We don't even have all the money. And like you can just write these checks. Howard can help your business manager. Yeah. I mean, I wish I had started thinking about this four weeks ago. Because I do think by the time we pull

off this gala industry, the funds it will be sorted out. And then we can keep the money. I'm going to not go on with the four. I say this because I know this is going to make you nervous. But I did just think of what would be the most hilarious outcome to this whole debate about the suit is next fact check. I'm in a sling. Stop, I've already. I'm in a sling and I'm still in the suit.

“Because I can't. Oh my god. What do you think? I'm imagining when we are talking about this.”

You're so arrogant to think that like someone's tight tight tight. Lea Tard isn't going to

affect their twists. It does. Hold on a second. I ride them. I know. I've ridden with arms that are

tight and arms that are not. So you're going to have to trust me that I know. Okay. Yeah. And it doesn't affect it. If anything, my EME more stability. It's just incredibly uncomfortable. That is the issue. It's very uncomfortable. Okay. And it's hard to get in and out of the suit. Who do like grab a sleeve and fuck? You know, there's like a lot of teamwork to get us in and out of each other. It is like getting ready for a red carpet. Yeah. Like since you need

each other's girdles up or whatever. Yeah. I was getting in and out of our suits. That's the hardest part of the day. I can't relate at all the what you guys are going through with the shoes and shit. I mean, I just simply can't. I wouldn't do it. I know me. I wouldn't do it. I can barely even wear the goddamn dress shoes. But the one thing that is borderline that I deal with as a man is like your collar and your neck of your shirt with the tie on in an Adam's apple. And I swallow

and it wants to go below that line and it's too tight for my Adam's apple to go down into that. This shirt's too tight. But they again, to look that you can't have a gapy collar. That's a huge no no for guys. Like that's got to look tightened up in the tie. He's got to be tight. You can't be

swimming in your collar. Okay, no fair. But James Bond's never been swimming in his collar.

You're right. I just the problem is it also you run the risk. We talked about this. The neck on a man in a suit is tricky. Is that everything? Yeah, because it can make someone look very stalky. Oh. Okay. It has it runs a risk. I want to see. I'm looking up a little bit from my favorite actor to be. What did he what happened to him? He did go. He looks great. And like you're right. It's flush with his neck. There can't be any visible gap between the collar and your neck. It's

not a good look. But it's not stalky. It's like it's long and it's um. He also has a very elegant neck. You picked a gray. Yeah. If you look at stethom, I was trying to think of my favorite actor and I

can't believe I can never remember his name. It's like it's so weird to me. Jack Rachel.

Speaking of that's really as yesterday when I was working out, I had a podcast on him. They talked about that. They got to you. Yeah. Finally got to me after it got to me. Yeah. Yeah. No, um, my bland Tom Hardy. Oh, yes. I struggle with his name. Yeah. It's not a pretty standard name. I love him. I love him so much. I started my bland over again, yes. Wow. But I can't imagine what he's dealing with with a collar. No, but tax look. Okay. Here we go. This is him and his collar is not. All right.

She's great. I'm glad you just found this. He can't even have a collar tight to him. Yeah, but you just soon. Isn't that I kind of knew he doesn't have a goddamn choice. Oh, there he goes. Okay. That's good. He's so fucking hot. Look at his eyes. Oh my god. Anyway, I think everyone should look exactly

“how they want to look. Me too. And do the best you can with what you got. That's what I'm doing.”

Do whatever you want. You know, do whatever you want. Uh, but I do think maybe if it's hurting your Adam's apple, you know, it's like an hour of my life once a year. What about if we undo this button? Well, I've had to do that similar to my letters. Also, all my dress shirts were made at a certain era of my life when I stopped acting. So I wasn't accumulating any more dress shirt. So I was having to put

there was an elastic. He sometimes keeps his, but that's not a tie. When once you throw a tie into

“them as high, he, this, he's wearing a bow tie. Maybe you should take a the tie out. I, I've done”

bow tie. I don't like bow tie. I don't understand what the fuck that thing is. Nice. I'm like, what is this? This is like, uh, I feel like something you'd like because it's kind of like, it's a little femme in a cute way. It's like, what? It's a bow? It's so cute. Dax. Dax. You're trying to show me your Facebook login page. This is a tick. Oh, yeah, he has a tick. Well, this is somebody else. Terror. Okay. This is just Google Man Jacob the Lordy. Um, but you could be showing me videos of a Lordy in a

fucking potato sack. He's going to look awesome and better than I look. No, that's not true. Oh, yes, he looks. He's significantly better looking than me. No, that's good for him. He's like, your height. He's taller. Oh, yeah. For every, maybe look. I forgot. He made me look like that

“fucking five foot four guy next to the basketball player. No, wait for you to be next to him. Oh,”

we're good. Okay. Let's do some facts. Okay. Emily Burger. Interesting episode. Our favorite burger. Use the sauce last night. What did you put it on? Shout out to Burger Lounge. They have a palio option. No, they're not fucking with cheese. Yeah. It's brutal to have to remove cheese from stuff. Yeah. I also went to Yucca's taco shack yesterday. Um, best burger. You haven't tried it. Yeah. Yeah. I keep meaning to it. And I had to say no cheese and the cheese is such a good part of it.

But you know, it was still great. That's the thing about quitting things that hurts and then the thing is still great. Good. Anywho, uh, this, I don't have to mess with because I guess palio people aren't fucking with cheese as my assumption based on this palio burger. It's got avocado, sprouts, tomato, lettuce, and then just the burger. Yeah. Boom, ordered it, put a bevy of different classy mustards on it. And there was like, oh, I have Emily Burger sauce. So I, uh, I doubted it.

Funny enough, too. Nate is in New York. This is a very ding ding ding. Nate is in New York with

“his kids for spring break. And I said, you have to eat here, go get the burger, the kids will love the”

pizza. And I just sent that to him. An hour ago. And now here we are. And I use the sauce last time. Wow. But such an interesting interview to interview two divorce people that still have to work together. Yes. Unbelievable fascinating. Very fascinating. I mean, the interview itself is

interesting, but just like the psychology of that is so, so wild. Yeah. That was a first for us.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was. Yeah. We know of. Yes. I guess we could have had a couple of on that was secretly separated. Yeah. We've had Melissa and Ben on. And you know what? They're very close together. No, I know. That one I happen to know, but the others, I guess I won't. And who knows, maybe I won't know. You're doing a great job keeping it a big deal. What is it? They see really, really, they started a horrible work. No, they're together. But as everyone is an individual, and then

you put those two things together and every person, every relationship you observe is unique onto itself. Certainly, every separation is also unique unto itself. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's not going to be any two dynamics that are exactly the same. Yeah. So rare or fun experience. So fun. Yeah, this podcast, I'm going to interview more divorce people. I mean, yeah, let's do it. I've dedicated show this podcast that I've been listening to for like a day. It seems that one of the people on there has a very

good relationship with their ex husband is very much in their lives. That was my mom and dad. Right. They were best friends. They did stuff all the time together. Yeah. Anytime we went to the

movies, my mom and I, it was in the town that my dad lived in. We'd always invite him. He'd

sometimes come for dinner. He spent the night at Christmas pretty pretty often, till she was remarried. But even maybe a couple times then, I don't know. It was more a testament to like Barton, my stepdad who had to deal with my dad being around all the time. My dad did not have a small personality. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Okay. Well, some fact. So when did this that Emmy squared in LA live open downtown, that was April 3rd, 2025. Oh, so it's been

there for a minute. So I should be able to order from that one. I hope. That would be much warmer. When was our Brooklyn live show? It was on September 22nd, 2018. Early. Do you say September?

of his restaurants. It's called the bibgormont. That sounds fans here than a star. I know. I thought

it was above stars. Yeah, because this one has no association with tires. Well, no Michelin still. I know, but like you don't hear bibgormont and think tires. No, you don't hear Michelin and you think tires, which is not so fancy. Okay. High quality food at a good value or as a Michelin selected restaurant formally quote the plate. These spots are recognized for using quality ingredients, proper cooking and serving a quote simply good meal, even if they lack the prestige of a star.

“Okay. Reminder to anyone that for two weeks, I believe it is our month. You'll have to go back”

in episode to hear it. The code word, if you go into Emily. Oh, yeah. To get a free dessert is dolphin asparagus. Oh, shit. But Nate isn't going to be able to benefit from it. Shit. Okay. I don't know what to do either. Okay. Well, he can just order and pay for his dessert. Yes. So guys,

dolphin asparagus, get your dessert. This is exciting. We've never had a time. I know I love it. I love it.

Okay. So you expressed a beef with them about diet Coke in the. Yeah. Yeah. It made me look up a soda consumption by state. Oh, fine. Why don't you guess what you think is the state

“that has the highest percentage of people who consume soda daily. But this is, oh, what happened?”

2010 to 2015. This is a world pop review. So it's like really. I'm going to say Mississippi's number one. No. This is a surprise. I'll tell you. This is a surprise. Okay. Although it might not be a surprise when

you find out. But it doesn't correlate with our obesity scales. I don't think. Well, no. But also,

there's some tough parts of this place. So it's not the soda. It makes it a tough part. But it's Hawaii. Oh, interesting. It's surprising, right? Okay. Hmm. Maybe not. If I think about it. Yeah. This is exactly. Yeah. Okay. So Hawaii number one. I'm still going to stick with like Louisiana

“and Mississippi, Alabama. You're close. You're missing one. Kentucky. Arkansas. Arkansas. They're”

number one. Two. Okay. Okay. Then we got Wyoming. I'm surprised. I am two. That doesn't make any sense to me. Wyoming is 73.2%. People have a soda a day. Very tiny population. Right. Right. True. Okay. Then we have South Dakota. Okay. Connecticut. Okay. South Carolina. New Hampshire. New Jersey. Louisiana. New Mexico. Georgia. Ding-ding-ding. That should be number one. I know. It's embarrassing. Yeah. Not not not enjoying your bread and butter, whatever they say. Well, it's like one of those like

you take it for granted. Delaware, Vermont, Florida, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Rhode Island, New York, Maine, Maryland, Alabama, Montana, Arizona, Mississippi, Nevada, California, Illinois, North Carolina. California is above North Carolina. That's Texas, Virginia, Colorado. Can you guess last? Okay. Utah. Sam Alaska. Wow. They can't get it up there. Yeah. And then right above that is Wisconsin. 49. So they're drinking beer. So let me state for the

record on my stereotyping was completely wrong. There's clearly no consistency whatsoever between North and South and I was wrong. Also alcohol consumption because a lot of people have drinks with soda. Sure. Jack and Cole. Yeah. That's all I really know of as a popular ramen coat. But yeah. Sprite and stuff. Sprite and something. Surely temples. Yeah. Sure, temples. This true. All right. Let's see. That's it. That's it. Okay. That's it. That's it. Emily and Matt of Emily. What a joy. Yeah. It was, it was really,

it was also so fun. We've just been talking about Emily Burger for so long and yeah. It was, it was full circle. All right. Love you. Love you.