Lena Waithe

And I'm Dan Shepherd. I'm joined by Lily Padman. And today we have Lena Wey. Oh, I love Lena Wey.

“She's an actor, producer, and a screenwriter.”

She created the shy. She was on Master of None. Ah, we loved that shy. Yes, Queen and Slim, Boomerang, them. This is the final season of the shy.

Now streaming a Paramount Plus. You know Lena, you're going to really fall in love with her.

If you've never heard her chat.

She's just as sweet and wonderful as the kids. That's right. Yeah, please enjoy Lena Weyth. Oh, no, no, you are great. That's how usually I am.

Okay, she brought her a cream top, and she was like, I'm not following that much dairy. You got me. Oh, the cream top. What about tea? Sometimes.

Is it caffeine in general? You don't get down with me. I don't know if I need any kind of caffeine. He's already like, you don't know what to do. Definitely.

Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. Maybe he doesn't need it, but he drinks it. I can't do it.

Yeah, I don't want to be dependent on it. It's fine.

It's something to look forward to it.

Do you identify it all with the many, many things that come across your Instagram, go about ADHD? Because for me, I'm like, oh, yeah. I don't have ADHD. It's interesting.

The person who I share my life. She says. She's already on here. I don't know. I don't know.

I like to watch my podcast while I watch all as well. I watch in the podcast, like, what's on my phone? And I'm like watching a Kim Burns documentary at the same time. It's like I'm doing that. Sure.

Sure. And she's just like, how are you able to do this and follow what's happening here? In this conversation, in listen to this documentary, I don't know. It's the thing. My question is, do you think you are consuming both at like, what percentage?

That's a good question. Because you know, they debunk the myth of multitasking, right? Like there's been enormous studies done where they measured the time spent. And then they have proven that if you had just done one at a time and then next, like, this is already kind of known.

Okay. I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm just wondering what percentage you think you're. I don't think it would be it. Yeah.

“You know, the truth is, here's the thing.”

I will sometimes say, okay, put the phone down. Let me focus on this. I think it's really about not just attention span, which we all have to work at expanding. We have to actively do that. But I think that it's also about giving something your undivided attention.

It could almost be your rating system. Like if you had a public platform or you rated things, it would be like, what thing did you shut down all things for? So this season, what show, you're like, you know what, we're putting this over here? The thing that I'm like really locked in is half man.

Half man. What one is that? That's the gentleman who did baby reindeer. Oh, oh. This is sophomore effort.

HBO just came out. Just came out. There's two episodes up right now. I think both are pretty exquisite. Exquisite.

Nice. Yes. You know, baby reindeer locked us all in in a real world. But I think when I got to tell them this, if I was really grateful to be able to do that, at the globes, I stopped him and I said, you made me want to be a more vulnerable artist.

No, that's lovely compliment. No, when he goes into the whole thing about he's in that fucked up crazy zone of drugs and fucking, and that whole, I was like, oh, man, I'm so impressed. He's going here as I can add it. I was like, oh, yes.

And it's true. Yeah. Well, we're all addicted to something. But our vices sometimes look different than some of the more socially acceptable than others.

You know, it's like cheating is a vice being on faithful. I think it can be a vice. We'd say that's a low acceptance rate. Yeah, we would agree. Correct.

Universally reviled universally practiced a stale. A stale. A stale. A stale. A stale.

I fucking a bull size. I made it one name artist. You're like, let me go up here. Let me be you worldwide. Oh, look, I got you.

But also it's like shopping is a vice, socially acceptable. Social media is a vice. Absolutely. But it's socially acceptable in a way because the funny thing is people are on their phones, posting on social, why you shouldn't be on social and folks are watching it like,

yeah, but I'm getting this message on the very thing you telling me to get off of. We had the CEO of Instagram office and you gave this live live.

Who's my guy with the glasses who always wanted to think about the updates and stuff?

Who's talking about that? Yeah, that's her guy Adam Mosserry. Okay, yeah. I love him. I like him a lot.

And you're so thoughtful. Barry.

“Like he's the dude you should pray is running that thing.”

Yeah. We have this great thoughtful thing and I challenge him on every damn thing. Wow. And people are on the goddamn app, tell me, how could you platform him? You can't support this and I'm like, you're on the app, you cannot have this position.

Wow.

Because they have to rationalize. Yeah. They're on their chest to shut it down.

“I think in their mind they're going to take down the very thing that they're”

helping to keep alive. Okay. So we love the new show mad man horseman. Half-man, half-man, half-man. It's too much coffee.

Too much coffee. I just really like that show a lot in terms of how he's exploring masculinity and what relationships can look like between two men that don't necessarily have to be both in them have to be queer. But I think he's also was exploring versions of that and baby reindeer as well.

But I think he definitely is sort of an artist that's making television in a way that is

forcing us to pay attention in a way that I don't know we always do.

In fact, that this was something that was not proper America Netflix. This was Netflix that was coming out of the UK and as he said to me, he's like, I don't think Netflix thought it was going to be this huge hit. That speaks to the disconnect between, I think, streamers and audiences. I know.

And it's sort of like, what do audiences actually want? What do they need? This is the beauty though. There's downsides to the streamers. You have a show that's about to be on for eight seasons.

If you had that on network TV in 1980, you'd be buying a baseball team. And I left it a whole thing. The one upside of it is, yeah, they're going to make baby reindeer. That's Netflix. No one there believes in it.

But they're going to make it because they're going to make 350 shows this year. And then that does give the opportunity for all these things apart. Beef comes out of nowhere. And all these shows coming out of nowhere that no one was betting on in the network way. And that deserves acknowledgement.

It's taking a toll on a lot of aspects of this industry. But that one part is amazing. It's like they switched the niche and the niche became mega hit sometimes. No, that's true. And it's about like, what becomes mega hits?

Why does it become a mega hit?

I'm always fascinated by that.

Are we creating stars anymore? Or just sort of depending on the ones that already have the money to carry a show that might not be that great? Well, stars also are becoming stars in a different way. Like not just because they're on TV or in movies or in music.

I was looking at all the pictures from the Met Gallo this morning. I was like, I know I'm like getting old. You're like who are these people? But I don't know any of these people. Yeah.

It's like being 30 watching a billboard awards. I know of it. And you're like, I don't know what it means.

“Or is it that the stars are from TikTok, from things that I'm not on?”

But they're not on my TV. I don't think. Right. I think the words star sort of becoming interesting. The worst celebrity, public figure.

What does that mean? Because you can become a celebrity in a week. But then your has been that never was. Yeah. And like a year.

Yeah. I know. You're like way to go out there. You've done good. You've made it.

You're fine. Back and forth. When his friend, I love him so much. Gordon Keith. He's on a popular Dallas sports radio show and he has been for like 25 years.

He was visiting last time we were talking about AI and everything. And he said to Chris and I just, you know, you guys might be among the last mortal stars. Mordle. Yeah.

Like the future stars will be AI. You might be in history the last of the mortal star. Oh. And Chris goes on like that. That's so funny.

The last of the mortal star. The final season. And one of the strongest seasons of the comeback is telling us the future, which the comeback has always done. That's your first acting job, too, right?

Yeah. It was technically. Yes.

And he's always tries to take credit from our first TV.

I like actually Michael Patrick King, Lisa Cooge, or they threw me in there. One episode. Very grateful to Allison Jones who discovered me. Yeah. What did they predict the season?

That AI is going to take over all of the shit. They've been such a head of the game and the comeback is just sort of one of those great shows. I was honored to be asked about New York Times about one of the 100 most important television shows.

It was a very tricky task. This is not definitive list. They just came out with 100 great assault writers ever at movies on the kind of stuff. So I was honored to be at the table for the television one. And I was really happy to speak about the comeback because it was on when I was in college

as the first season and I could see in that moment what they were doing with comedy and I was so unique and so special because I was already like a sexy city. I was already a friends fan, but to see these two brains come together and make this show about aging actress and Hollywood and what she had to do. And the fact that they were ahead of the curve in terms of reality television and that

first season. And then in the second season getting into the premium cable type thing and what that would ultimately be. And for the third and final season. I mean, the seasons are spread out between like a decade.

And so brilliant, the first season was so beloved and for me we talked about it that 10 years later age, we all was like, yeah, do a second season and now 10 years later they're doing the third and final. And it is the sort of trifecta of Hollywood and what happens to it. You know, like all about Eve, you know, sort of, oh, this is what happens.

There's a person that's there that we look at and we love and then she eventually gets put out to pasture and there's someone that comes into replace. And it's cyclical. It's sort of telling you, you can only be on the mountain top for so long because you can't

“breathe the air up there. So you have to start climbing a new mountain or you'll die at”

the top of the one made it to everything's driven by young people. This is also a reality. I'll talk to young people.

We have friends.

“The people that they don't know break your heart.”

I mean, literally, the people they don't know movies.

They haven't seen movies. They're like, "Stars ain't redemption, huh?" But that wouldn't even know. I wouldn't even take that swing. I'm like, yeah, I mean, blazing saddles.

Like, what are we doing? That one's probably in no go for most young people. What do we do? What do we do? The bridge.

Just a bridge. It is up to the parents. The parents got to get into like my mom made sure I like prints. Right. Although that's not a hard job.

It was. I didn't want it. When I was a young person. Really? In the car couldn't hear it.

I'm in college. In Chicago. He comes to the city. She makes me go. It's one of the things I'm very grateful for.

She's like, you got to come to the concert. I don't like, I don't hear it. I go. I'm like baptized. I'm like, oh, God.

And then I go, I'm by every record. Which took me like a long time. He was just going to listen music every week. It's just he came out. I guess you're nine years younger than me.

So that explains a little bit. I couldn't have not loved prints. You know, I was probably in fifth grade when purple ring came out. You were either in the Michael Jackson or Prince. And to me, Prince was dangerous when I liked him.

I was like, okay. That guy's dangerous. I'm into him. See, like, Michael was like, perfect for like, this is going to sound so wrong. But he's perfect for like, if you're a kid.

Yes. Sorry. I know. I know. You know what I'm talking about here.

You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here.

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You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about here.

You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here.

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You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here. You know what I'm talking about here.

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“I think his childhood was stolen from him and then he lived it out as an adult in never land ran.”

But the less that not take him off the hook. I had seen you on Master of None. Yes. I liked you on Master of None. I loved the Thanksgiving episode.

I remember I had no idea you were a writer. In fact, not too much later.

I thought maybe that was your first time writing.

Like I know your history. That was my fear actually by doing the show. Because I was like, oh, let's see. People think I'm a actor who's trying to write. But actually, I'm a writer that you want to act.

Yes. He's like, right. Yeah. Don't care. You're already a staff writer on bones at that point.

Right. Yeah. Did that because I needed to do other shows. I met you in real life. We were at this event.

And I'll add. I'm so excited. You're a 2 PM interview. Because that means Delta will be here when we get done. Nice.

So I was with Delta when we met. And something happened between you two. I don't want to speak for you. But it's that there was an explosion of charisma and connection. Yeah.

I think the first thing she said to you was I love your voice. Yeah. Yeah. And then I saw this side of you and she has that effect on people. Not that it took a lot.

But I saw a side of you immediately. That was like, oh, I love this person. Yeah. I got to say about the stop and chats I've had in my life. I ranked that very high and like, oh, yeah.

I really love this person. Wow. Yeah. I remember a bull for more and a half. No, it was clear that you're raising kids that know who they are.

“That was I think very interesting to be talking to a young kid who was almost like fully formed.”

He's right nine then. Yeah. Right. That's why it throws you. Yeah.

Because I'm going like, what? You know, to be a girl with a husky voice and have one of her life. They were sort of this thing of like, I'm almost her own sort of voice. Her scratchy voice. Yeah.

Yeah. It's so some like, isn't it? Girls with cool voice or chat. Yeah. I see.

I see. I see. I hear you. I hear you. Literally, figuratively.

It was a lovely meeting. It was lovely. I really enjoyed learning about you today. So it's in Chicago. Yeah.

1984, May 17th. We're about to have a birthday. Yeah. They were right. About Jackie Robinson year.

About to be 42. How do you feel about aging? You're very accomplished. That helps. Yeah.

I'm like, have an Emmy. I think I love it because you know, it's interesting.

Opened this really interesting episode back in a day with these amazing women who kind

of were known for being beauties in their day day like this Diane Carroll like Lauren, the model. No, no, no, Lauren. I'm forgetting, but she's like a model with like a gap to whatever, but she just had these women on there who were just really known for their beauty.

And she asked them what they feared the most and they all said aging. Oprah was kind of taken it back by that because Oprah said, that's not a thing that scares me. That moment literally is having this light bulb moment in front of people. She's saying, Oh, I think it's because I'm not worried about a beauty type of thing fading.

That's not what her value prop is.

Yeah. That's not what my value was. So black. We will age better. Well, this is true.

This is true. This is true. Something in the deal. Yeah. Don't get us.

It's very hard to get the deal with shit. But also, I'm a person in an interesting way that doesn't concern myself with the male gaze. Yeah. Yeah.

Because this level of, I don't need to look younger than I am. I don't need to appeal to a certain audience. I just want to get wise or involved and grow and learn and know something more today that I did yesterday. There's a lot of factors, too.

I would argue and correct me if I'm wrong. The older black woman has a matriarchal position that's very cherished and valued. I know you lived with grandma for, right? I do. I do.

Yeah. Also, knowing your ageing into a role of great relevance and purpose versus a lot of the white ladies are just thrown out of the past. Yeah. No, it's yours.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

“So, I think there's a lot of different things in the mix.”

Yeah. I think to me, it's just whatever somebody says, I hate getting older. I say, what's the older? Yeah, exactly. You're right.

Yeah. Yeah. But it's funny that you bring up the male gaze part because we just had this crazy experience last week where we interviewed some of the list. And we had this man on to tell a story and I was like, oh my God, he's so hot.

He graduated from the same college as me and I was like, I graduated in 2009 when did you graduate? And he graduated in 2021. And I was like, you got a mole? My god.

I had like a real, I'm old. I'm, I guess a cougar. I hate it. And I don't ever walk around thinking that.

I never walk around thinking I'm old.

It was because I'm in front of this young hot guy. D53, by the way. I don't know if you know she didn't say her. Yeah, I'm a fast math. Okay.

I'm 30. Oh, my God. We look good. Yeah. You're killing.

You're crushing. I was pumped. I was like, oh, good. We're in a phase where she finally is ended fucking a younger dude. Like, let's get on with that.

I mean, that's not where it went. No. This may be the also old and irrelevant. And I was like, oh, well, I normally never feel that way and I'm pretty confident. But then in juxtaposition to this young guys, when you say male gaze, there is something

very real about that. Yeah, like, I'm not really concerned about that. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the door's open for me to tackle something that's so dangerous to tackle.

Or it is funny that you say like, I'm not concerned with the male gaze. And I got to say leading into meaning, you.

“I think the reason I was shocked we got along so instantly well by my estimation was like,”

I'm nervous around lesbians because I'm so used to my value proposition being you might like me. And so like for me to enter a situation where it's like, I know you're not kind of like me. Capital L like me.

And I have to confront how much capital L like me means to me. That's true. And how much of my own personal self esteem and value comes from capital L like me. Do you like me?

And so I know, oh, yeah, you're never going to like me.

I start there, which it to fucks me up a little bit and then a lot of your art is deeply activist oriented. You have a lot of causes you care about. And then so my next insecurity goes like, she doesn't look at me. I'm like, let's do it.

I can give a fuck about anything. I go on with these two insecurities and then I start talking to you and I go, no, I think she likes me. My capital L like me, but so I can live with this. It's not enough.

Is it? Workcase, Ellen. Totally. And I think everything can get so easily misread. I'm sure there's some buzzers who are like, oh, he don't like me.

Because he only likes people he can fuck. And I'm doing the opposite thing. And neither's true. No, yeah. I can't say I've had a lot of lesbian friends.

And I have to acknowledge it's got to be some part of my own insecurity or so. I feel like, oh, I'm invisible to this person or something. I'm super interesting. A couple of things. I'm so scared to say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

This is like really great.

“First thing I want to touch on is the art being weird in activism and the truth is, I don't”

think of myself as a activist in a way. I think of myself as a human who studies human behavior. And I try to like capture it for us to look at. I think because a lot of stuff I'm dealing with is black folk, it can be sort of categorized as, okay, this is what this group of people was dealing with.

And going through, especially with a movie like Queen and Slim, I think they'm coming in which I produced. I didn't write or direct on that, but that was a black person who I believe identified as queer, but he was trying to explore something there through that. And Queen and Slim, I was exploring something about our society and then you look at something

like the shy, which is sort of exploring just sort of life, middle-class, Chicagoans. But because if it's people who are part of a marginalized community, it sometimes can be seen as, oh, this is a political thing because we don't have any choice for it to be anything

But there's just a thing about things. Given that, I was like, so many straight white dudes come up to me and tell me how much they love it. And that was a breakthrough for me. Because I used to think of it as the black episode, a master of none.

Oh, interesting. Oh, we're going to have a black episode as he's, oh, cool, oh, yeah, okay, the gay black episode. Yeah, yeah. And I just thought it was for the gay black folk.

Now, gay black folk love the things that give an episode. Sure. I think everyone loves it. But that's the thing. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. That's the trick. Yeah. Is that, yes, it's specific, but it's also universal. So you know, I don't think you're preachy.

“I think you're telling the stories that are true to you, you're supposed to write what”

you know. Exactly.

And you are in these two groups that inevitably are going to seem critical.

Oh, absolutely. But for me as an artist, my goal is to not separate myself from the things that make me who I am. But to get folks who don't look like me, love like me, come from the walk of life that I do to be able to look at the work and not only see it through a particular lens.

It's just like, hey, you can see yourself in this character's way I see myself in a lead character and baby reindeer. Well, I was going to say even when you listed the shows that you like right now, huh? Of course those are the shows that you like people might go, oh, I'm surprised that she's watching that show.

Oh, really? Yes. You know, you're not just watching Power and Girlfriend, okay? Yeah. You don't like the Rondo show.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I also love bait when a shout-out is a man on Amazon if you haven't seen it, check it out. It's great.

Beautiful show. He'll be mad. You ain't seen it. I saw it. It's exactly.

Everyone's in trouble. How awesome are you seeing things. Exactly. But I'm also like, you must think about it. Okay.

It's just, do you like it? Let's just start with everyone's in trouble. I know. To go to the thing about like me and straight men, I feel like I have really great relationships with straight dudes.

And a big part of that, I think is because sex is not on the table. So they don't for this need to perform because nothing's coming from it. And I think that's why I also have very interesting relationships with straight women because if that gets a little dicey because it's a level of, huh, you're kind of mass but you're a woman and I kind of like this energy, I'm kind of confused.

It can get a little tricky. They're going like, are we cool? Are you hitting on me? You are. But I don't know what's going on.

And so I just hear what you're saying in terms of, oh, but if you couldn't like me, then what's my end? What am I doing? Is it a value to anybody who wouldn't like me? Right.

“And the truth is there's so much value because that is it all that you have to offer me.”

Yeah, I know it's stupid as I'm saying it, but it is that emotion I have, right, that I have to think through. That's super interesting. I go like, oh, I've got nothing to offer this person there. I'm going to want to interact with me and I got to step over that.

But I think that's super fascinating to me because I think for me when I approach, I'm just curious what's the energy going to be.

I'm more curious about that because my brain isn't always there.

I'm more so want to know, who are you? What's the thing? Word I dislike the most is assume. Anytime someone says it, what follows it is sort of like so, what you're saying is you didn't ask.

You didn't go to the source. You came up with the narrative for yourself about a person. And by the way, there are people that have narratives about me that are completely based on nothing. I think I had created one.

She won't like me. She'll think I don't care about anything. Why would she want to talk to me? I'm talking to you. No, or why.

She seems like me. That's what a lot of our society is doing right now, which is why I think it looks the way it does. We assume things about each other rather than having that moment of like talking to each other and really hearing each other because even like what you just said, I try to be an

active listener. That's why I was like, I heard a couple of things I was like, okay, I want to address the activist thing. That's really interesting to me. It's not combative, but it's sort of like, oh, oh, that's just a thing.

I know that words dicey, like for me, and say, I know that's a loaded word. But to me, it's like, I get what you mean. It doesn't seem like a odd thing at all, what you said. But I think for me, it's helpful to hear and to kind of go, okay, I see how the work can be perceived that way.

And because I have no control for people to receive the work.

“But I think for me as an artist, it's always about, okay, that's how it can be said.”

Okay, cool, and how do I continue to make work that no one feels ostracized from. Because some people may go, I don't want to, because that's active. I don't want to, I want to just kind of chill. I don't want to be taught a lesson exactly. And sometimes work, especially by women or women of color, or if you have to add queer to

that mix, there's this idea, this assumption that you're going to be talking. There's going to be a lesson. There's a lot more to get. This is about to be woke versus just, oh, that was just kind of funny and human and grounded.

It can be a burden because even if you're saying something or you're making a piece of art that a white woman made straight, people might not be like, it's an allegory or it's a lesson or it's trying to teach me that's part of the thing. I mean, sometimes we'll get in debates here, but if I'm saying something, it's kind of like,

I'm speaking on behalf of right and I'm not always, I'm just saying what I think.

Right, but you have to always like identify that. It's the opposite. I'm not point of view. I represent everyone. I know.

And then that's exhausting. I know if you don't do that, people like also you've been thinking for us, you're going to get me. It's like, no, I'm not. I don't think it's a mess.

I said, hey, that's a part of the way people do interviews. If you pay attention to it, they're like, I'm just talking about me. No, a person, no, with that. I don't want to. Yeah.

I'm sorry.

And I'm helping. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm going like, fuck you.

I need to think of it like this. I know. What is like Jesus? What? I don't know.

I got really out of control. No, but I like you.

“I have to get to know, you have to meet you.”

I get in the way. It was just like passing thoughts. Yeah. I get to whom you are. We're programmed.

So you were zero to 12 south side of Chicago. Correct. And what was that? Like mom and dad divorced at three at two. Dad died suddenly when I was 14.

But I only saw him from like, I was like seven. And then like seven years kind of went by. He was gone. Was he an addict? Well, you know, it's crazy because I want to get his death certificate because I didn't

think about how he died. And he was actually killed by someone. But it was sort of in self defense. So it was a choice like that.

But the corner did show that there was cocaine in his system.

There is a history of addiction. My dad loved cocaine. And then I grew up to love it too. It smells so good. This is why my grandmother told me she said it.

But grandma's going to say, it said, you're blood. So we'll be mindful. Be thoughtful. A lot of us kind of got to tell me that too. Oh, shit.

You didn't. They told me. And I said, let me just see what's up. I got to find out where myself. Oh, they were right.

Did you see the Chevy Chase talk? Yes. Jesus Christ. I was in love with your analysis. I thought it was quite fascinating.

I thought it was quite human. I'm a person that's done a documentary about a person who was no longer here. Being very tall and more. That can be a little bit trickier. I don't want to say this more pressure.

But her. What it was kind of up to give us the life rise in the space to tell that story. It took us about five years. Just going through a lot of interviews and things like that. Obviously written them in more when I was much younger.

And just obsessed with the Marie. Tell them more show and Dick Van Dyke and all that kind of stuff. But it's tough to kind of create a portrait of a person. And obviously that person is still here. And he's being interviewed.

Yeah. And you don't heard the stories. I think a lot of us have. And they're in the dog. Yeah.

It's a pretty unflinching on his many, many. Absolutely. Outbursts and shootingists.

“I learned a lot of things that I didn't know, which I think is the point of a documentary.”

Childhood and sound great. No, not at all. It's tricky because it's not about making excuses. But rather about giving you context for a person. It's an explanation on an excuse.

That's what I like to say. Those are different things. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I think the thing with Chevy that got me the most was the 50th SNL bit to watch that

and to see him still be affected. Can't get out of his own way. For people who haven't seen it. Well, I don't want to. Okay.

No, no, you're not going to. I'm checking it out. But if people know that there was a 50th anniversary special on SNL with like everybody that ever pretty much touched it and a lot of the people that were important to the show. Probably Lauren Michaels has interviewed as well.

I was really important, but Chevy talked about not being in the show. Yeah. And even though he was very much part of the origin of the show. I mean, that's not disputed. But also he came back and hosted and wasn't the this energy for I think either party when

he came back to hosting sometimes your reputation. You leave a mark that can stick with people and who knows what happened. That's the he doesn't know what happened. Lauren kind of is Lauren. So he sort of I don't know if we try it.

But also Martin Schwarz has something really interesting. He was like Billy Crystal was there as well. He didn't speak either. So I wanted to know. Yeah.

So Maristory definitely gave some context to the situation. But you know what I appreciate that Chevy Chase said. Like I was hurt by it. He was hurt. He raped what he sold.

What I respect is vulnerability. Yeah. I respect the honesty. The toughest thing for people to do is just to say that hurt my feelings. Yes.

You know where my compassion came from. Where it'd be one thing if he was so happy and unaffected by the wreckage. He seemed to be incapable of not creating. Right. Like if he was sitting there high on his horse feeling great about it all.

And enjoying life and feeling good. He is a victim of it all. He's very uncomfortable. He's in such discomfort. It's very obvious.

That's true. And so I look at it and I go like yeah. He was terrible to a lot of people and primarily himself. And I have compassion for that that kind of self destructive. I can relate to it.

And then also these crazy glimpses of him where he's still a fucking genius. Like just him interacting with the dude with the flowers. And I shared. So I'm lying back from the NBC upfront. So they put me in a car with him.

I've never met him. Oh my God. We're sitting in a car together. And then we pull up to the hotel. And there's 600 people out in front of the hotel to see stars.

And when he gets out, everyone's so excited. Right. And he's trying to walk through this crowd. Oh, yes. So I feel much better now.

Thank you for asking. And I was feeling much better now. Thank you for asking. One of the funny things I've ever heard. And that's also part of him.

“I think that's a sort of a portrait of a person.”

Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. We are supported by all state.

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Add in all state roadside plan today. You're in good hands with all state potential savings vary insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms conditions and availability insurance provided by all state North American insurance company North Brook Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by all state motor club incorporated in all state affiliate. [Music] What I love about those documentaries adding my own to it, you know, with Mary Tyler Moore,

is that she's the woman that could turn the world on with her smile. But she also was an alcoholic and dealt with a lot of depth in her family. And her son as the accidental suicide. And he was in his 20s. And then she also did ordinary people before that.

And then experienced it in real life. She went through a ton. But it was sort of the Jackie El of television of her time. And so I think ultimately when you're trying to paint a portrait of someone,

“there's a lot of colors you have to use.”

And you have to really let people speak to their experiences of them.

And the truth is everybody's right.

Even though there's a moment in the doc with someone talks about how he was treated by them. And he was going to talk or call that. But this person's truth exists. The documentary allows Chevy's truth to exist as well. Yeah, they're just wreckage.

But that's the thing is like the P. We Herman Doc, I thought was really phenomenal. Because I grew up with that. I loved that doc. That doc, I watched it multiple times. Yeah, that's a beautiful.

So stunning. Because I didn't realize what I was actually getting when I was watching that show. Me neither. P was speaking to the crazy weird kids. Yes.

It was all misfits. And I didn't even get that. But I felt very connected to that. Yeah. I didn't know I was a misfit until I realized.

Like, what is it about this language that he's speaking to. Yeah. You don't know what you're seeing until somebody points it out to you. Yeah. And so I think that's the other thing, too.

You get perspective. You're going to have to look back on a career and go, oh. And then you see the downfall. You go, I see, oh, this is interesting. That kind of went.

They tried to make it like he was a bad dude. It breaks my heart. That's crazy. He was straight and fucking hookers. He could have done anything straight.

Nothing would have happened. Oh, yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. Anyway, it's the thing about these people's lives. And the impact they have on us that we don't even realize.

And then you realize that this person has such impact on you was a person. Yeah, everyone. This is weird when you realize your parents are a person. Yeah, I know. That's weird.

There's only one person. I think might not be a person. But this is one. Stephen Segal. Ah.

You got to wait. I know that I watched the dog. I'm going to the wreckage. He'd be very comfortable. I feel like I don't know.

Going, yes, but going, yes, but going, yes, but going. So I read that you wanted to be a TV writer at seven. And this feels impossible to me because when I watched TV at seven, it wouldn't have even occurred to me that it had started with writing. It's just like these people exist on this box.

I think that might be real.

“I think the truth is I knew I liked writing as a kid.”

I liked the assignment of having to summarize the book or tell about what you did the day before. And I remember my teacher really affirming me that young saying, I look forward to reading your papers. We both know our teacher's name.

Who was it? Mrs. Trabunas. Yeah, Larry LaClair. Come on. Yeah.

When they tell you you're a good writer. You're like, OK. I think what we say is so powerful. The power to tongue is real. Yeah.

And I just need to always any opportunity.

You've any little kid that thing. Yeah. Because they will remember it. It stays with both ways. Whether you're told you're not good at something or you are good.

Yeah. Just sticks. For sure. So no, I was really grateful to have that. But also obviously love watching television as a young person.

I used to watch old TV because I had the grandma in the house. So we was watching like all in favor shows. Oh, yes. We don't watch it. I don't like grandma.

All in a favor. We like the Jefferson's. Yeah. Obviously being a family Chicago. I got to watch that old TV.

That had a really big impact on me. A different world was really important to me. Which has to spin off of the Cosby show for the younger audience. Really sort of speaking to me. Even though I was like didn't even know what college was.

I had beef with that show. Okay. What's the beef?

I'd say my first number one love of my life was at least about nine.

Of course. Four. Get it. And then she gave birth to herself. Come on.

So we grab it. No, no. I got to dance with her one night for like two hours. I just need to tell you. Chris and I were at a thing.

Of course. This is how every story starts. And Chris and goes there's your girl.

“That's why you're very to the best way out the planet.”

She goes there's your girl. And she's dancing. And you loved the dance. So get over there. Okay.

And I fucking dance. Why did you? I was floating on a cloud. Anyways. The spin off was like she took us to the spin off, right?

Correct. And then she went after the first season. But that's the way it's supposed to go. I lost my leads. These are three.

You know, people know about that. But there's something that happens when the universe takes someone away. Like that. Where we're like, we don't hang the hat on this person. Well, let's remove that person.

And now see what you do. And what happened was a different world became the show. It was ultimately meant to become. Which was supposed to be about Jasmine Guy and Codim Hardison. And Chris Summer and Shondale Brown and Darrell Bell.

And Simbad and everyone that came in and touched the show. So that show was like everything. It was just everything. It's like even I'll talk about that. Did you just want to live in the world?

Did you want to be in that college?

That shows a big reason why a lot of folks want to historically black colleges. My black ass loving a different world the way I did. I'm going to Columbia College in Chicago study writing producing a television. But I did go visit fifth, which is the HBCU as well. I wanted to stay in Chicago and I wanted to go learn how to write television.

Is Columbia Chicago a part of university? A part of the New York. They're completely different. Completely different. I was trying to figure that out.

I was researching you today. I was like, I'm running all about it. I wanted to college. That tells you like, you know. But she was an exec or an exec and I've a writer.

So I'm like, okay, all this time. I'm using different parts of the brain.

“But I went to Columbia and it was the best thing.”

Can I ask really quick though? Do you want to elementary who are you on high school? Who are you on junior high? Who was I? Yeah.

In Chicago. And you moved to Evan Simba. Tell me in the first 12. Oh, my God. Who are you?

In elementary school. I was the conduct grade.

Was always low class around.

Just a busy body. Talking too much. My mind having to come up to the school. You said you're not ADHD. But this is sounding a teeny bit.

I was a social butterfly way young. I was there to socialize. The grades were solid though. The reading and the writing and all that. I was killing it.

You know. I was talking too much. And then junior high. I was very much like a tomboy. But I hung out with all the pretty girls and stuff like that.

I was in that crew. I loved movies. That was a big part of my personal. People didn't get asked me about anything. Can I ask how early you were fully aware of being queer?

queer. And then when you started cheering that with friends. Oh, man. That's so interesting because I feel like I'm a person that believes it's sort of in you from the beginning. It's about where you recognize it.

But for a minute, you're just not even sexual. True. No. But the thing is when your kids like you laugh and you have crushes. That's true.

You like other kids. Like you like your teachers and shit. There's teachers you like.

That was never one of my fans.

Because my teachers were like by odds and moms like they were like amazing. Yeah. But they just were giving that. But it was really about I was looking at these actors and stuff coming up and the Janet Jackson's. I could recognize I'm like Janet is beautiful.

“So that was like, okay, what's happening over here?”

How they bear is beautiful. I could recognize Whitney Houston is beautiful. But I also considered my mother to be beautiful. And so there was a level of like, oh, you're beautiful. She's beautiful.

Okay. These women that I recognize. It was a different thing. Did you have a young mom or are you the older sister? Young.

Youngest. And my mom was like in her 30s. Okay. It feels like the usual age you have kids. And my sister's like almost two years older than me.

And so it's just the two of us. And I just gravitated toward the female energy. But then I was also a tomboy like outside with the boys and stuff like that. And so I think for me high school. I definitely felt very queer.

But the thing about Tom boys girls don't really get teased the way boys who are feminine do. No, right. Because in a patriarchal society. It's not odd to be a girl that wants to be a boy.

It's odd to be a boy that wants to be a girl. Because girls are sort of second-class that isn't right. Yeah.

And so that was the thing like I was never teased or made fun of.

So I was never, never eyeball. And then in college I was still living with my mom. So I wasn't really out exploring. It wasn't so I moved to LA where I was like, okay, where are the gay clubs at? Where are the gay kids?

It's a net. And then when I would go to those clubs, I would feel very much like an outsider. Like I wouldn't feel well. Do you feel inexperienced? Definitely.

I felt inexperienced and also felt like I don't have any gay friends either. And so I've just cultivated this sort of like queer black women. Not like a requirement. But the thing is like we had to curate that cultivate that community.

“Like it wasn't just like, oh, where is my other queer black mask women?”

It's not turn key. No, like you got to really find folks. And we've literally found it. We were hanging out last night. And it's private.

We don't have our phones. We just haven't dinner. We're sharing. We took a beat for us to like figure that out. And so I think that's the interesting thing about community is that it takes effort.

Mm-hmm. It takes time. It takes energy. Everything worth having. No one ever knocks on your door and gives you something that's worth having.

No. I do think there's this desire. Everything you can have delivered to your door. And not friends. No, not friends.

Not partners. Not any of that stuff. Not jobs. All the shit that's worth having. Got to fight for it.

They don't hand it out. They don't. You get it. That's when the real work begins. Yeah.

So you got. I don't want to say lucky because obviously you'd gotten a degree in it. But you land pretty quickly in LA after graduation as an assistant to an executive producer. Girlfriend. Yeah, right?

Yeah, right? And the greater of that show at the time. I've been the youngest black show runner ever. I've been like 30 maybe, right? Because he badly Bowser who wrote on a different world.

She was up top. She had crazy show called Living Singles. So she was outside as well. I want to give her her flowers. And then Mara Brackakeel was also coming up at that time.

Mara. Yeah. And he time M.A. R.A. I'm afraid.

Is it Mara or Mara? I've had a go in this case. It's Mara. Mara Brackakeel. Go for it.

Please. Come on. Last week or two weeks ago, I met Mara twice in like one week.

And she's incredible. I went to do. Yeah. Well, my events. Because right into a lot of events.

But she was it too. And she's the best. And we exchanged numbers. And she was the story of the show. And she was like, I want to listen.

What episode? I was like sending her episodes. So hopefully she'll hear this. Oh, yeah. So big shout out.

Mara Brackakeel. I'm going to send it to her. I'm going to send it to her. So that feels like a real blessing to land with that person as a potential mentor. Oh, my God.

And she has. She has. She has been. She came to the queen. It's limprimary.

Gina Prince Bifelid. I want to shout out as well. Who owned a record loving basketball. Mara got me a job working for her. I'll see her life of bees.

Once I was done with Mara.

And then Gina got me a gig working for Ava Dubernet when she went to go direct her first film.

So that's my trifecta of fairy god mother's in the business. And Gina just hit me like today because she got chance to look at my play that I did and bought some more. And her and Reggie Byte with her husband who was also a big mentor of mine. They literally sent me a text today saying, hey, we love this play.

It was very well done. Really proud of you. And I was like, I'm like my parents are telling me they're about to be like that. Okay.

“So when you leave that show is your first staff running job on bones or is it on the Nickelodeon show?”

Nickelodeon was first and then I got bone. So I did the half hour multi cam and then I did the hour long procedural. And culturally going from so different. Again, how did that go? I kind of struggled on the multi cam kids show thing because it's just sort of not my vibe.

You're not watching a lot of that. Yeah, but like I needed a job and the lead was a black girl. And so I couldn't hire child to Izzy. I love him. He was like, all right, I must have you two black women split the check.

Because he's otherwise like I only have one. And I know it's sort of how it goes on his fall. I mean, just the way it goes, they did like the paper team situation. So me and another black female writer shared an office and we weren't a writing team. Then I did like work for a bit.

But I wrote the pilot of the shy had a table read for it. Did you sell the nevens? Yes. I love him so much. Yeah.

My club Davis. He was like, come on in. He taught me a lot too.

He said to me, whatever you don't get in your first season.

You'll get in your second. Whatever you don't get in the second season. You'll get in your third. He was so great at a breakfast. He just sort of gave me such good.

He bought the pilot in 15, but you didn't shoot it till eight. We shot two pilots of it. We did one pilot and he said this could be better. And he was right. And then we did it again.

And then that was the one he'd ran. So two things. A hard to hear that. B. What a champion to say, go get it right.

Yeah. Right. Was it hard to hear? Did you know it as well? Or was he wrong?

No. He was right. Ultimately, I can't have to give him that. I though did think the director we have. The first one was the right director for it.

I will say that. They were like, no, this is a big deal. By the way, no need to say his name. Whatever. But it's no need to disrespect anyone.

Because he is very talented and amazing. I just didn't think he was right for what I was doing. And so then we did that.

And in essence, like, never.

It was like, yeah, okay. We were both right. And so he said, let's go here. And we got Rick Farmer. You are who directed Dull who directed the wood.

“And he directed the pilot of our show, which is a big reason why I think it went.”

And we had a beautiful cast. And Alex Hibbert, who came from moonlight right over to our set. And obviously Jason Mitchell was coming off a show. And he was going to be a little bit more creative. And he was going to be a little bit more creative.

And he was going to be a little bit more creative. And he was going to be a little bit more creative. And he was going to be a little bit more creative. And he was going to be a little bit more creative. And he was going to be a little bit more creative.

And he was going to be a little bit more creative. And he was going to be a little bit more creative. And he was going to be a little bit more creative. And he was going to be a little bit more creative. And he was going to be a little bit more creative.

And he was going to be a little bit more creative. You know, yeah, I definitely get the comparisons for sure. And I think the wire did something that hadn't been done until a vision before. And I never feel like weird about comparisons or people mentioning things in the same sentence. Because I think that's such an honor.

And I think the shy really for me was the slice of life ensemble. I didn't want to necessarily go too deep into these different organizations or places or things like that. Because I really wanted to have people living rooms having conversations while people in living rooms are watching it.

And maybe be encouraged to have their own conversations. I'm a writer that I think links into conversations. Wanting to start conversations. Not even wanting to start them. I want to have them.

I love Matthew Lopez when I'm going to play right recently said to me. The Bush by the way, what you got from Michael Nichols, but he was saying that every conversation is like three categories. It's like it's a negotiation or it's a competition or something like that. And so I really kind of carried that.

I really do love the art of a conversation. Yeah, conversing for me. It's a very fun game. It's like the best game. And you can play it all day long.

Exactly. I just love games.

“And I think talking to people is just the super fun game.”

Sometimes people like to be in combat and conversation and prefer to be in dialogue. I mean, you're saying something. I'm digesting it. I say something you digesting.

Yeah. And we can kind of accept that. But if you find one would be opposite to come back. It would be, I say something. And it opens a door for you to say something even scarier,

which opens a door for me to say something even scarier. Yeah. That to me is like the ratcheting up of it.

More just like I'm going here. Oh fuck. Okay, I'll meet you there. And then plus one. Yeah.

That's the fun game of it. I love that. I think because that's really how you get to be close. So I want to say something scary. And that gives me permission to say something scary too.

So I think master none is a very interesting and probably unexpected deviation. Yeah.

But ultimately has to be a wonderful thing to integrate into the overall thing.

We're going to change my life. I learned the story today. I would have assumed you and as these were friends. And the role was written for you. I know everybody is not at all.

But that is not at all what it was. Yeah, no, not at all. It was written for a white woman that might become his love and direct. Oh. Yeah.

So walk us through how. I don't want to do it. He's like, I don't know if it was a white woman. It was just the most interesting.

“That's what I'm trying to tell us himself.”

Look, here's the truth. I don't know how likely that is. But get Brad Pitt as he's in sorry. I don't know. We'll see what happens.

He's hard to get this guy. Trust me. I know. I love brother. He doesn't like the talk.

He doesn't want to talk to people like that. Yeah. He talked to Amy. We're just surprising. We've had maybe 15 text exchanges.

Come on. And they're all about watches. I'm like, that's all we're going to do. Oh, we're going to take it. It's more than one.

We're going to start in the show. It's the people that we want it. He'd be great though. He's on there. Haven't me here.

Does it hurt? It's not going to be like, OK. I'm going to talk to you about that. She lived. I think she lived.

Let me call her first and make your deal live. It's talking about it. No, the Bible thinks we're going to throw me.

I'm never going on there.

God knows. Oh, Jesus Christ. Again, I got a shout out to Allison Jones. We had her on by the way. Friend of the poem.

Right. I did. We love her. That's all sort of rare thing. She doesn't talk to people.

I know. That's like, I just discovered. But you know, not because she doesn't want to proceed. She made it very clear. She was so flattered.

And no one ever cares about casting directors. She just didn't think anyone. She kept thinking, why are you interviewing? It's so crazy. She didn't say it.

Yes, it's insane. But it's very endearing. She's phenomenal. She literally saw something I put out online, which I wasn't even in. There was a pilot presentation for a show.

I ultimately did call 20s. I'll put it out there because I wanted somebody to see it and go, OK, we could do this. And so then I got to call that she wanted to meet me. I didn't know who she was. But I went and sat with her.

And I walked by the poster for Freaks and Geeks and Brian's Maze. And Fresh Prince of LA, and I thought, oh, OK. She's like Lauren Michaels. Got it. Yeah.

So that's it across from her. And I just talked to her about television. And she has such great taste and everything. And I talked about Maud and watching that and watching golden girls. Are you pretty encyclopedic with TV stuff?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to work to blockbuster for a while. Yeah. Yeah.

And Best Buy and. Yes. And movie theater. I know I'm not good enough. So we were just like, talk about the most random things.

And she just kind of goes, if you have considered acting. And I said, I have not. OK. So I'm going to bring you in for some stuff. Just for like, you know, she's a good person.

I was like, sure. And she did. She brought me in for V. And I couldn't wasn't able to really handle that because Julie Llydrypher was like in front of me. And so I wasn't expecting that.

So I just like completely. You got to be a talk about fucking guns. To be a. That's not a great star. I'm not here.

But then she did bring me a birthday. But I got the comeback, which was cool.

“I got to call that said, can you just go meet with a disease?”

Wait, we're really quick. Can I ask? Yeah. At that time, were you like extra money? Or were you like, I want to act.

I have a desire to act. No. I just really trusted her instincts. I didn't think that that was something that wasn't the cars from me though. I'm a writer.

Yeah. So because as these in her, she was obviously brought on to do the show. I didn't have a title to for everyone to get the title to damn show. As untitled, these don't sorry project. I don't know how that goes.

But I was the fan of Parks and Rick and then knew his comedy. But I got to call those from her offices. Didn't want you to go meet with a disease. And I was like, why hasn't cast in people calling me? What's about the staff?

Yeah. I don't know. Go meet with a disease in Allen Yang. And obviously I knew Allen Yang's name as well. And so I thought, OK.

All right. I go sit with them. But it's from Allison's office. So this is strange. And they were like, I don't know.

Just go to his house and sit and talk to him. And so I later found out that a disease told her that he didn't want just people to comment and read with them.

He wanted to meet people first.

And see if they were interesting. And then read. So he just said to her, send me interesting people. And by the grace of God, she knew how just men. She said, oh, Lena, wait.

This is interesting. You should meet her. And he was like, OK. I don't know who that is. What's in the house.

“That's why I went to his house and sat with him in Allen.”

Not unlike this. Literally kind of almost similar to furniture and everything. And I just sort of talked to them. Like, I would if it was a staff writing meeting. But it clearly wasn't.

And I just was like myself. I recently fallen in love. I was just being myself. It comfortable my own skin. And then I got the call.

OK, he wants you to read with them. And I was like, OK, so I thought I was interesting. So I came in sat down, read with him. And it was just instant. Then I came in to test for it.

The cast in college was a very straight white woman. It's the next to me. She's like, are you going in for Denise? Yeah. Are you going in for this?

Yeah. She's like, it's funny. We get a bunch of stuff all the time. Yeah. By the way, it's so much better.

Oh, yeah. It's the same way better. None of the ones when you sit down is like, yeah, I'm kind of the same. But Wayne, let's good look. You're like different variations of each other.

Yeah.

And Michael Shirt who was our parent on that.

“It was basically them saying, this is the NBC 1994 version of this show.”

This one we're bringing in. Of course, when I come in, it's like, this is where she's going. Yeah. Yeah. I totally get what they were doing.

And so obviously, what I went in, I had a cold to live. When it was like, oh, I told Michael Shirt, this is my full game. I'm going to talk right around this, man. Because I was a let's go. Because I could just feel something was interesting.

Of course, after I read and tested this, he's just like, come on. Come on, come on. And when you encourage to be loose an improv in that audition. A little bit. Because again, if I'm going from, okay, we had this one archetype.

We're trying this other thing out. Let's see all the flavors. Like I wouldn't want to know. They knew I was a writer. Yeah.

But I also didn't come in there. I didn't want to blend the two. So the season one, I didn't write anything. Yeah. We as these would have conversations.

Well, he would take little things from there and put it in there. But this season two is success. He was like, okay, I want to do a Denise centered episode. And I was in season two a lot less because I had gotten ready player one. And that was a very interesting tricky thing.

Because it was like classic. Like we got a season two. And now you say you want to go do this movie. We'll be only being there for a couple episodes. And I was like, yeah, I was like, but this is an opportunity.

I'll give you a great episode. Just talk a shit. Yeah. I'll give you a great episode to be fine, man. Don't worry about it.

Like I got to go do this movie. And he's all like, oh, God, classic. Yeah. And so sure enough, he came to London where I was filmist. So we cannot go write the episode.

Oh, wow. Because I actually told him, I said, I can't write that episode. So what you, I said, because I got to focus on this movie, man. I was like, if you don't write it with me, it's not happening. Uh huh.

Good for him. So I was like, fine. I don't want an Emmy. Yes, it did. You want an Emmy for that?

Yeah. Yeah.

We're kind of first black woman to win for outstanding writing and comedy series.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And did you love acting? It took some getting used to because he did want me to be myself.

And you're in New York City. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's like show me a really easy reason.

I don't know how to eat oysters and my caveat is kind of stuff. Because he's such an old school gentleman type guy. He knows every restaurant. And I'm like, okay, this is all fascinating. Yes.

What a tour guide to New York. He must be my guide. And me and even in London too. I've watched the show and I want to spend a week with him. And talking meet him at corners and each shit.

I know. That's popping. Yeah. Look at girls in each shit. Let's go.

No, it was fantastic. I remember we went to go see moonlight together and Barry Jacobs was doing a Q&A after. I know it was just like crazy. And then we, because we know we had things giving coming up as we were like, oh, this is crazy. He's someone that is a big part of not just my career.

But I think just my evolution as an artist and as a person in the world. And I'm really grateful for his existence. Because my career went look the way it does if it weren't for him. And now it's the Jones and Alan Yang and Michael Scher and Netflix. Those guys over there.

It's just such a big part of my career.

“Now what did you have to learn to run the shy?”

I'd never run it. I'm not a show. Oh, you've never run. I did a show on a training program with the WGA and I realized, yeah, someone said, getting your own TV shows like being beaten to death with your own dream.

And nothing is sure than that.

I always say the hardest core motherfuckers and all the show business are show runners.

Oh, you have to give it to them. That's why I don't do it. Because they're doing budgets. They didn't know what actors they're doing with execs. They're at it. They do every single piece of it.

The way I get to sit here, you know, shop to jewel in Justin who co-showrun it together. I do think it's a two-person job. I get to be the creator. You know what I'm saying?

And I get to like give notes and things like that. You were in the writer's room. I was in the writer's room for season one season two. And those were rocky times because I was a young buck. Like I was 30 31.

That's the young to be a show creator. They have show runners. They put you with who are older and wiser. But at the same time, I'm doing something new. And you're holding on to something old.

That's the inherent tension in all these situations. Always. Is I'm trying to do something new? But you know how to do it. You're right.

Both of you are right. Yes, correct. But we're fighting. But you can't get the green light until they're like, "Well, we approve this guy to come over see."

If they spend $100 million on something, they want someone that has done it many times successfully. I lightly call Michael Sharperon on a master of none. Because you need that person. That's going to kind of watch.

Okay, all right. What are you all doing? You want to do what? That's the nature of the beast.

“And I think people that watch television don't always think about all those things.”

Or sometimes you have a whole episode and this actor got sick or this actor got a movie. Okay. You go here. We got to rewrite this and that changes that story line. We'll figure it out.

These two actors. We want to be a couple. Don't really have great chemistry. So we'll go over here. It's like all these different things.

It's like all these different things. It has this logistics. It's also a work place. Yes.

It's like everybody's always get along.

Yeah. You're doing a lot of therapy for people. Okay. Exactly. Okay.

It's like, okay, it's eight seasons. It's like, yeah. We're on May 8th. We're going to be in Chicago last day of filming. We're going to do a whole thing and go promote it in New York.

Now, explain this to me. So seasons one through five, 10 episodes. Season six, 16 episodes. They did that. They asked us for another.

Yeah. Season seven. Well, and eight. I asked us to go back to 10. Okay.

So for our last season. Don't be tim baby. Okay.

I'm convinced by the way. Same thing. We did 13. We did 21. We did 18.

We did 14. Yeah. Because of the streamer of the network. It was the network.

“It was like they would never kind of commit to us.”

We were always on the bubble all six years.

And it was like, this year is like, good news. 16. We're like, what fucking? What numbers that? You're either doing 13 or you're doing 22 at that time.

We're going to do 16. And then when you're going to do it, they tell us. Midway through. I don't know. It was very confusing.

When we did, they told us they wanted 16 episodes. We'd already had our 10 episode pitch. And we had to go to them and say, well, you got to give us a few more weeks to figure out what that is. And they were okay. But it's good news.

They want my episodes. And it's like had a new guy that come over. He wanted more episodes because it was doing well. But we had never told a story that way before. Yeah.

People really said, you're being told. You're like, okay. So we're going to do 16. Got it. And then seven.

Are you doing 12? Okay. And that's why they said, yo eight. I got it. This would be 10.

Okay. Cool. Yeah. Do you have the pride of having to show that went. Eight seasons.

“This is like year in the business of air.”

I know there's a lot of gratitude. But also knowing that when we came on at that time, it was a different world eight years ago. I know. Things were very different.

Very different. Even more slightly more than eight because we did the first pilot. Then we did the second one. Right. So we had a mini room and then this and that.

You mean you sold the pitch in 2015. So you've been doing this for 11 years. Exactly. You've only seen eight seasons. Yeah.

But you know, it's probably.

They'll never see the light of day.

There's things that I've lived through that have really made me. The artists I am now and maybe someone I can really see. Thanks for a lot of different angles. In 2018, you became the voice of AT&T. I'm wondering what your tagline is.

Can you say it? I want to hear it. Oh my God. I made Billy threw it up. Do the visa commercial by solic.

Mastercard. I made him do the monocopal. Get home on. It's just how you know. I wrote one to fuck with Monica.

The he had. Mastercard was fantastic. Oh my God. Golden read. It was perfect.

What was my main? Because it was like. What was my main? I'm forgetting. I haven't heard of you.

Just okay. Just okay. Is that it? Does that feel familiar? It was.

It was something else too. It was something else. How many years did you do that? I'll imagine that for a few years. Like maybe like three.

That's the best job. It was the best. Yeah. And I could do it. The career too.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the pay is nice. It is lovely.

It's like nice payday. Yes it is. Yeah. Minimal work. If you look at your career and he's charted your hourly rate.

Just be this huge spike. And it'd be your 18 right there. Yes right there. And people will recognize me from my voice. Or a hug.

Speaking of the voice. Yeah. Yeah. You're voice off of me. Oh, maybe Delta's like going to have a huge campaign.

No, she will. She will. She will. She will. She's the kid.

You know. I'm certain to be wrong. What I love is she loves writing more than anything. She writes compulsively. We just had the conversation last night.

You would love. I imagine if you could imagine having a kid. This would be the ultimate conversation you could ever have, right? She wants to win. There's like a writing competition at school to write basically the closing statement of elementary.

And so all the kids are writing something. She really wants to get picked and to be able to read it on stage. She wrote it. And then she read it to Kristen and Kristen said it's really good. But I think in your better off speaking to your dad about this.

But I'm not sure that it's you. So she came upstairs and she's like, mom said this. I'm going to read it to me. And I got to have this conversation with her. And I said the challenge is a writer.

It's to never write for anybody but you.

And it's so hard. I said so you could choose to write this to try to win a contest. Or you could choose to write the story that you would tell your best friend, Incah. About your experience at CWC. What would you say about your experience to Incah?

Your best friend. And she was like, I get that. And I was like, this is like the dream of all dreams. I have a conversation like that with my daughter about what it means to find your voice as an artist. Oh, that's good.

It's floating on a cloud on the full conversation. It was so fun. You know, it's interesting because I am childish by choice. And it's when we talked about this a little bit.

“Like, if you don't remember that, I'm still in that camp.”

It's so fascinating because there's so many things that I think about in terms of like, why don't want to be a parent. And a lot of is because you have to have a sort of mental capacity for that at the end of a day. What's interesting is you have the capacity to sit and like hear it. Give the note.

You don't hear the rewrite. You don't maybe be there if she wins. You know, it's going to be a lot of it. She doesn't get it. Then there's also, you know, emotional showing up that you'll do the most likely thing is if she

succeeds at writing the thing she'd really tell her friend, Incah. It's not going to get picked. Oh, who knows? We don't know that. We don't know. But it is age at this age in that context.

It probably won't be rewarded originality in true voice. But that's also one of the lessons you got to do. Well, I called her. I said, look on. She's okay. I always write her up.

Just think, I know. Well, luckily, I got my own story to her.

And it didn't work. It didn't always work. Well, I wanted a car change movie that was a love story. Nobody wants that. I wanted that.

And it didn't work. But I kept doing it. And one day, the podcast happened. It took so many years of me being truthful to that. Sometimes it takes a while.

But you will have the pride of having always told the story you wanted to tell.

And that is invaluable and worth more than any amount of money you could have made. Absolutely. Where I do that because I have this mentorship program where there's writers, there's actors, there's people who want to be exact. And I get all the zones with them once a month.

And we can ask for whatever they want. We have these lovely private conversations. And I think that's where I realize, oh, that's where I can show up. And be real. Because also this that element too of being supportive and encouraging.

But also being grounded and being realistic. And I think that is the path you're walking with your kid. Maybe for me as a mentor, which I've become and I try to do that. It's still a responsibility. Yeah.

But I think you're doing always say parents are doing God's work. Because it's a different kind of responsibility that you have. This is a person that is a reflection of you. But also you want to make sure that they're in a carbon copy of you. Yeah.

So it's like you've got to give her guidance, but also make sure she has a space to become more for herself. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. The thing you fight the most is a parent constantly is they are their own thing. It's all you're doing.

Like you're trying your hardest. But think about how many parents don't do that. There's so many parents whose children are really doing that thing that parents want them to do. It's very natural and gratifying to see yourself in other things.

We search for that. And that's how we bond and it's great. In variable, you do that. You see all these things that are similar to yourself in it and it's very gratifying.

“But then you have to go like, and that's 10% of them.”

Why might miss the other 90%? There's not like me at all. Because I'm not looking for it. You've got to remind yourself to constantly look for it. Back to the baby thing.

So what happened to mean was, "Hey, I've always wanted kids."

So that's standard. But also I had a friend who had a daughter who I just fell in love with. I'd take her trick or treat and she'd write on my shoulders. And I just constantly was like, "If I don't get a medal in before I die. I'm gonna do it."

I'm gonna do it for it. I'm bill for it. But Delta, fuck you up a little bit? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, the meat kids and I'm like, "Oh, my kid is cool and chill." Yeah. And I'm like, "This is a medal."

But then the tricky part is, though, they don't have moments of not being chill. Oh, wow. Like, cool. Like, upset. It's just a lot going on.

There's a lot. You know, I'm just like, "How much do I have?" Like, "I got responsibility for myself, my community, my work." And you feel fulfilled. I do, yeah.

Yeah. I'm whole. Yes. And I do think it can be very societal.

“I think sometimes people say, "Well, why do you want to have kids?"”

"Well, you know, on that age, I couldn't finally afford it." Or at that time. I mean, although there's so many other, the week there's an article in New York Times about people can't afford to have the children now. So they're siding not to, for certain reasons,

or people don't like the world they may bring them into. But for me, it's more of an internal thing about, "What do I actually have the mental capacity for?" What I also think about is, like, the end of a long day, "What do I want to do with myself?"

And I think the first thing is to not take care of someone else. Someone else. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair.

I think that you do it. Because also anything could happen like it. Like they fall a break something. That's so fair. They say, "What kind of hit you was from going in?"

No, I'm trying to convince you. No, no, no, no, go. But I'm just, I just want to point out a lot of these kind of two things. Yeah. You might be shocked to learn or find out or experience that taking care of them

is taking care of yourself in a way that was unimaginable. Oh, that's interesting. The amount of healing and perspective that's happening in those moments in the right size of all of your concerns, and all these existential things you have in the racket in your head,

and the things that are important. Like somehow it can alleviate all of those things. So it's like, "You think you're going to be overwhelmed, but weirdly it prioritizes things in this way." Oh, this is weirdly nurturing to me.

And has, yeah, just prioritized things in a very clean and lovely.

Like here's what I miss about being an addict.

The beauty of being an addict is you have a single goal. Yes, sure. I'm telling you. It's a liberating fucking thing. It's like, "I have one mission today.

Do not fall off of this high." That's so peaceful.

“Is it difficult for you to watch stuff like you for you?”

Or like, "I always love it." So you can watch this. Oh, I love it. Yeah, yeah. Because I know.

It's not like I just see it. I'm like, "Oh, I've been in that room. I know this thing." Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love it.

Gotcha. Some addicts can't watch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah, but I hear you. 'Cause I love Jay to pink it.

She calls for children, her teachers. She says they teach me things about herself, life, all that kind of stuff. And I thought that was a really interesting way of looking at parenthood.

But I think for me, I am taught something by human beings every single day.

“And that's why I feel like I don't need to produce one or have somebody produce one.”

Because it really is a writer's job to be a witness. To really look at human behavior and try to understand it. And accept things about it that don't make sense to us sometimes. Because when I look at society, it's easy to get frustrated. But rather, I say, why are we behaving this way?

Because it's not out of sheer desire for destruction. Right. It's out of the sheer desire to be seen, to be loved, to be a part of something. And so, I think, yeah, may not be a parent. I don't have a desire to be.

But I think what I do have desire to do is to understand humanity and have empathy for us. And to be able to reflect us back to ourselves, so that way we could better understand ourselves. I mean, Chelsea Handler says this so perfectly all the time. She's like, I don't have kids. So I have the capacity to give to all these other kids.

Oh, yeah, my friends have kids. Yeah. And just like, she gives all these charities. She's just like, I have space. If I had a kid, I could not feasibly do all of that.

Yeah, and I will say, my friend, Malina Mousucas, who has a little one who's like, her son, who's not yet one. And he is in that space of when I come over there. I can just like, hold him. And I was over there holding him.

And she's like, you come over here to get your baby fix. And I was like, what? No. Because when I hand him back, when I'm sitting there, also Loki, get tired.

He's getting heavy as hell. Yeah. He said, we should know this. I'm like, girl, this is not normal girl. What is happening?

What's in the breast milk? She's like, I know child. But because I give her back, I'm like, yo, I'm exhausted before I leave. And she's just like, this would give her back over here. I was like, yeah, I want to give him back.

I want to give her I can back. We had a terrifying home when Christmas was probably like six months pregnant. We went out to eat with our friends, the Hansons, and they already had two little kids. And we were at Bob's big boys trying to have dinner.

Impossible. It was not possible to have dinner with these kids there. And so you guys were like, what about to do? Oh, Lord, we can't go to Bob's back. Why is it like that's a wrap?

I don't know if the fuck can you be a Amber? You don't want to leave the house. So let's keep it out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, now we have an excuse.

So you got that built-in excuse that's nice, though. That's other thing. Parents don't be going nowhere. Any time I don't want to go somewhere, there's a play that night.

Oh, look, see. Look, I'm here. I go out. I go out a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah. This is a little bit social. You've been to elementary. I'm a social. Yeah.

I know. I know. You're social too. I am. You're social too.

- You guys know I've crazed you. (laughing) - Like how many people do you need to talk to? I might everyone, hopefully. I think there's like seven billion left I have to talk to.

- Like it's your job. - It's your job.

- She always says the greatest gift about this show

is that I do get to talk myself out. - Enough. - So that's what I'm gonna do. - So that's what I'm gonna do. - I'm gonna do it. - That's what I'm gonna do. - Yeah. (laughing)

- The loads not all on her shoulders. - I love you guys. - I love you guys together. - We're not team share. - What happened to the ball? - I'm not, I'm not. - I'm like guys, no, I'll say internet.

What do you do? - Okay, I tell you my conclusion. - Did you see it on that stuff? - Oh god, yeah. - That's all we got asked about when we got nominated this year.

“But I think my final conclusion on is the best way”

for me to digest that is nobody's good enough for her. - Oh my god. - And I love that. - And that's true. - But I'm the next best thing. - That's right, brother. - Yeah, you're killing it.

- You're killing the message. The message isn't against me. - No. - It's nobody's good enough for her. And I love that, I'm glad that's how she feels about her. And I'm glad that's how America feels about her.

- This is real, this is real. - I can live with that. - But to me, I just love what you two represent, which is 1950s. (both laughing)

- Oh, it's cold, don't. But I think sometimes people have an idea of who they're supposed to be with.

That idea is never as good as who they're actually supposed to be with.

He said I was supposed to marry head of UNICEF. - She's supposed to marry Mike's shirt. - Oh, wow. - You know a good boy. - Mike's pretty successful. - Well, and he's just a good human being.

- Oh my god. - He wakes up thinking how he can help other people. I don't. I wake up thinking about speedboats. - Okay. - For my shy order of dawns nearby use one.

- No, but you'll also take a person that said, I gotta get a medal in before I die. - Yeah, that's true, that's true. I do wanna ask one thing and you can say no. - Okay.

- But you were with someone for a couple of years. - Uh-huh. - And then you got married. And then it only lasted a couple months. - Uh-huh. - And I'm dying to know if something about the title fucked everyone up

or you up personally. - It wasn't the title, no. - Okay. - It was me also feeling like, even though I'm not as happy as I should be,

“I think this is what I'm supposed to be doing.”

And I just didn't have the language or understanding of that. - My happiness didn't feel like it was important.

- This thing going, whether you're enjoying it or not. - Because of how much it's changed my life

and how grateful I am for it and how amazing this human is.

And I don't wanna say happiness, I wanna be frivolous about that. Like I think we want it different things. One of the things is like actually reals I didn't wanna have children.

And that's a pretty big, big change. And so, but at that time, I just kept putting it off. And so that wasn't me lying. It was me still trying to understand what I wanted and who I wanted to be.

“And I think that's why for me it's really important”

having this perspective step and back. 'Cause like we actually really asked ourselves whose life we wanted, 'cause a marriage in a relationship is the blending of two lives, truly. And so you actually asked yourself,

what life do I actually want? And I don't think I was very clear about that. I want to be with this person. I want to have this house, I want to have this dog. I want to have this mirror.

But didn't I didn't ask myself, but like, where do you wanna be if I was like, really? And then it's best version. And it's like, I wanted this life,

this person wanted this life.

And then magically when we get together, the two of us get a life that neither of us even thought of. Right. And that's like maybe the greatest thing that can happen. Yeah, I mean, or you can say,

yo, we have impacted each other's lives in such a significant way. And now this might be where we give each other room to go and have lives that make sense for both of us. Right, right, that's right, that's hard to do.

Yeah, but I didn't do it in a way that was noble. That was honest, that was kind. It was done in a way that felt like a car crash. And that's because I just sort of like, was driving the car too fast, not knowing the gear

and just sort of going. And so that doesn't remove accountability for my behavior. It's hard to exit these things out again, like every people. I wish I could have, you know, lamb at the plane better, you know what I mean?

But I think ultimately, and again, it's about giving yourself grace and kind of looking back at it, oh, you could have handled that much better. You could have dealt with that in a different way.

But what I do also understand except is that,

I'm where I'm supposed to be. I know she's where she's supposed to be. And I don't have any ill will toward anyone. I think the will is toward myself. That's, I think for me, the greatest feeling is,

I was with a woman for nine years. I still love her to death, we're friends. And her life turned out so fucking good. Nice. And I'm like, oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, that life is like, that's better.

“That's why I can, that's why I can kill you.”

If you crash the car and the person's fucked up, that's hard to live with. But if like, you can look back and like, oh, good. She's so happy. She's the perfect husband and the perfect kids

and fucking well. It's so happy. And that to me is how you know you really love somebody is that when you want them to be happy and happier without you, yeah, yeah.

Because I don't know if that happiness would have ensued if I would have stayed there. To me, removing myself, I think was actually the right thing to do because I wouldn't have been able to deliver the life

that I think she would have wanted. Yeah. What do you most excited to do? You've done so many things. You have created many, many shows.

You have them on Amazon. Obviously we have the shot. The shot. Yeah, wrap it up. May 22nd.

I'm an animal. May 22nd, Paramount Plus. Last season, the shot says goodbye. Okay, shot says goodbye. Season.

What are you dying to do? You're also a producer in cats, which has gone down. A little ball. Myself, Cynthia Rivo, Jeremy Pope, Laura Roach, John Legend,

dominated today for nine, nine nominations. One of the ones, thank you so much. One of the ones I'm in there is for Best Revival of a Musical. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now let me ask you, were you a fan of cats? No. Yeah, the whole time I'm like, what's going on? And then I went to go see this version. Oh, yeah.

It's all through queer black ball culture. Oh, okay. Which really makes so much sense. It lends itself to this world. So well, it's almost like it was meant for this world.

Couldn't agree more. It's phenomenal. That world would have made sense in the ball world and almost nowhere else. Exactly, yeah.

Paris is burning on Hollywood recommend everybody check out also, you know, the Cartier and Collection of Jenny Livingston phenomenal documentary changing my life as well. Was that about? That's about the ball culture.

Oh, okay. She made a documentary about it when she was coming out to NYU and it just as a movie that has been such a archival of our queer black ancestors and what they were doing at the time and the things that they were saying.

But also speaks the reality of the time what was going on. So obviously love that. And then I went to go see this show at Pack, which was where it started and I was blown away by it. And then I wanted to be a part of it.

And they were kind enough to let me join the team and came over to Broadway and here we are. Really? So do you want to do another show next? Or do you want to do a movie?

Or do you want to do more AT&T commercials? I'm doing a movie. Writing a movie now was an adaptation of a short story called Grand Rising. Which is something that you guys, if I say that,

you kind of go like, huh, I don't know what it is. It's a different way that sometimes black folks in a certain group say good morning. Instead of good morning, they say Grand Rising. Oh, Grand Rising is something.

That's not something if you're like a little more enlightened. You sort of say that.

“So just remember what this amazing short story.”

I read it, loved it. I raised my hand to see if I could possibly come on an adaptate. They were kind enough to trust me with that.

We're not telling much about what the movie is.

“Because I think that's the new thing now.”

I'll be a little bit mysterious about the storyline. Let folks come experience it for themselves and see what it is. But I'm working on that right now. A couple of TV show ideas and maybe want to play with like, what did it's to be in your 40s?

So stay tuned. And then you have theater, theater, theater. That's what I care so much about. Just because I think with everything happening with the streamers and people not really want to go, go see the movies live

entertainment. It's something that we can't deny. And it's like station 11. It's like they're going around town performing Shakespeare for the people for entertainment.

Because when all of this stuff shows down, what do you have as people that can interpret words on a page and inspire you and move you? I think it's why I haven't hit us all. Shakespeare wrote about the most difficult thing

he ever had to experience. And we just know it to be one of his great works. But to see that movie and to see how that story was happening in real time, obviously the way they were showing it, just reminds me that this is how we actually

liked to be communicated with. I'm a chimise to have a TV, yeah. It's okay, don't worry. I have kids, isn't there? It's just nicely, it's just, yeah.

That's the case, yeah. That's okay. I have one on Brad game. She was like, I don't know if I can do it. I don't know if I can do it.

I don't know why I was editing this show. I couldn't make it. Like Brad, I haven't seen a movie. I hear a good act on her. I hear a fine.

I heard your fine. I heard you were, look fine. I can find it in the lower body. I look good in it. No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So theaters, my shit. Lena, just I adore you. I really, really, really like you. I feel like you're really, really like you. I'm so glad I got to spend a couple hours with you that day.

“And my heart swells when I think of you.”

And I'm really glad you came. No one, everyone to watch the final season of the show. May 22nd on Paramount Plus, go see cats. Yes, please. Watch them.

I was a part of season one of them covenant season two. I wasn't, but I think both seasons are really strong. Okay. Also, Tony's, we're putting out good vibes. Come on.

When all the Tony's. Anthony. Anthony's as I call him. Get you a couple Anthony. Yeah.

Let's get that he got going. Come on. We got the Emmy. We're going to see what happens. All right. Be well.

Thanks for coming. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much. So soon for the five shots so you can hear all the facts that were wrong. What's up?

What it is. What is up? How are you? I'm good. You're good.

Yeah. Yep, yep. Yep. Okay. Well, we both went to Delta's play.

All my heavens, that was a big event. It was a huge event. Big event, an event that happened within me event. Yeah. Tell.

Do tell. Yeah. Okay. Mary Poppins. Yes.

“And I think some backstory is necessary and you can help me be objective here.”

But Delta's like, she's never been super into acting or musical theater or singing.

Yeah. That's a mild interest. I think she's done a few little plays. I think she did last year's school play. But she just seemed to be in it for the social aspect of it, which is great.

So we all went, you, Anna, me and Kristen, who else was in that one class show? Yeah. Kristen's mom and dad. Oh, yeah. Kristen's mom and stepdad.

And for the first two thirds of the play, no Delta. She's not in it. Yeah. And we, you were directly behind us with Anna and we were having some fun up until then, right?

Yeah. Because there's a lot of goof. It was the first run through of it. Yeah. There's lots of Mike errors.

There's, you know, there's the expected stuff. Yeah. We've discussed the plays before. Yeah. It's the whole, it's the whole school.

So there's second graders out there, you know.

Yeah. Everyone did a great job, everyone did a great job, and it was also very fun. You know, you can hear the mics at the back, you know, the same, same, same old stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

All this standard fair. And I think even on a set is Delta in this, you know, at some point, then she came out. She was Mrs. Anderson. And for people to remember, and I'm not super well versus Mary Poppins.

Yeah. Meredith Poppins. Yeah. That's at one point, it may bring in Mrs. Anderson's, and she's an old-fashioned old- The Anders are Anderson.

Anders are Anderson. You know, take your pen. Okay. It's a man or a tomato. Okay.

She comes out and she's a bitch. She's mean to the girls, and she's shoving people around. Yeah. And right when she came out, she, a full commitment, full energy. Yeah.

She came out with a real presence, a real presence, a real intention. Yeah. And her immediately, her dictation was off the chart. Oh, yeah. They have to do accents, which I should, I just wish they would take that off these

I think, you know, all in all, they did pretty darn good.

Yeah.

“I think if you got like adults to do it, the accents would have been much worse.”

Like just a random sampling of adults doing British accents. Yeah. That's probably true. I was like, it's not too. I was expecting you're some real real.

It could be worse. Some real snafu. Yeah. I just feel like they should have taken that. What was going on, like they needed to take.

That's not what they're playing. Yeah. But anyway, she did a great accent. She did a great accent, and you could understand everything she said. And she was projecting.

She was loud. She was. And then she has a solo song. All right.

Maybe you take over now, because I might sound too subjective as a father.

Well, I'm so objective too. I don't know that I can be. As a soulmate. Very objective. Yeah.

But no, she just did so. She just like had so much confidence. She's saying it's so well, she wasn't like, you know, you're kind of scared when these kids are singing. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, obviously, anyone singing, if any play, it's like, oh, God, like, what if they mess up or right if they, it's very stressful. And she just knocked it out of the park and was so confident and like loud, like she melted with her diaphragm, like she did it all right, and it was, oh, it was so wonderful.

Yeah. Two megabelts. It was so good. The last one with her on top of a stairs. Yeah.

Okay. And she looked possessed. Yeah. She, like the level of commitment, and she was screaming to the rooftops, and it was holding.

Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I mean, from last year's play to this year's play, major. Jump.

Oh, my goodness. Major, jump. Like we have four performers in the family. Sure.

“And she just threw down a performance that I think might top, you know, both Chris and”

Nice professional work. Yeah. Okay. I don't want to. Sure.

Now I guess we're getting selected, because that's not true, but, but it was, like, I think last year, at this time, we had this conversation here that was a little touchy. But I was like, she's not committed. No, well, she was more her mission on that previous one as we talked about was to make sure everyone else was doing.

Yes. She was being very bossy, like, boldly, like up on stage, like telling people what to do. Yeah. And I was like, oh, no, like, I wish she would just commit.

Yeah. No. And then boy, did she take the note? I mean, I didn't give it. Right.

Right. She learned on her own. And she really just, she brought the mug and house down. It was so good. It was so exciting.

I said, we cheered like it was super ball. Yes. I said, wow. Okay.

“So that's what the experiences for these people who have kids that are great”

athletes and, like, score, touchdown, I've never really had that experience yet.

Yeah. The touchdowns in the family knows, no, goals scored. And this was, I get how the parents get addicted to it. Oh, yeah. It was so exciting.

I know. Yeah. You know, howdy, screaming for her, it did remind me, I told you this, but there's a picture of the state championship second year, I think. Maybe first year, I don't remember.

But there's a picture of the parents and, you know, everyone is just like freaking out. There's a picture of it. My dad is wearing a hat. He's like wearing a bowler and yeah, they like hand these out. I think my head is about maybe didn't.

He's like, yeah, up out of his seat, screaming, and it does it takes over. It takes over when your kid is like, crushing, it's so exciting. And in the moment that was tied for that moment, where she was on the steps at the end, yelling from the bottom of her soul as loud as she could. Was I was, and Lincoln was there all day volunteering to help all the girls backstage, get

in their outfits as an alumni. Yes, yes. And I had this, you know, 30% anxiety over, okay, well, one child has already declared this as her path. The younger sibling now has just come out and fucking crushed.

Oh, wow, okay. What will this reaction be? You know, what will seeing her get so much attention and praise for us? Do. I had some anxiety about that.

Yeah. And I think you are standing there. So so. When Lincoln ran out, and they met each other in the Instagram, and they were a huge hug. Did she pick her up off the ground and squeeze her and she was genuinely so popular?

She was so proud of her.

It was so sweet.

“My heart was just destroyed at that moment, I'm like, oh, yeah, siblings, man, it's more”

important than anything else.

Yeah. Well, no. You don't know about the statement. Um, yes, it was. Did you ever see Neil crushy had anything, and did you give him the full, no, okay.

Only now. Now. Now, crushing that father. He's so badly crushed. Why are fatherhood?

Yeah. No, um, no, I was really hard on him. Yeah. But he needed it. Yeah, he needed it.

Uh, he's looking at him now. He's doing great. Yeah. And I'll say my mother ring. Um, but yeah, no.

It was really, really sweet. And I loved it.

Um, and then there was a five o'clock, which I didn't go to, but there was a big incident.

Yes. So we're at the five o'clock. The curtains down were in our mission, right? It wasn't in our mission.

“It was just between some scenes where there was a little downtime.”

Oh. And so the curtain was down. And then also, you hear from the audiences horrendous crashing sound. Yeah. And it's like it's substantial, right?

The, the kind of ground shook. Yeah. And my only thought was like, oh, did one of the sets. Because they had pretty big sets on the stage. Yeah.

But two story sets. They're one fall forward. Yeah. And oh my god. Where are the kids?

Yeah. And so I'm thinking this and then Kristen jumps up and goes back stage. Because you know, it's clearly something happened. You can hear kids back there. They weren't screaming, but there were noises.

Okay. So she goes back there. Scoops out comes back. And she's like, you are not going to believe the size of this tree that just fell into the school.

And so after the play, I went and looked back. And there's this like, you know, like cement balcony with like a really huge steel railing.

“Maybe a loading dockish thing off the back of the gym.”

And this enormous tree, like the width of our oak tree in the front yard. Like the trunk had to be like 36 inches in diameter. Maybe more. It just exploded. And it fell in all these directions.

It bent like the big fence post size railing. Yeah. This crunk bulb like a taco. Huge branches on there. A table that they were all sitting on.

So scary. Ten minutes before was flat. Oh. Oh. It's crazy.

And I was like, I just was like, yeah, my first thought was, oh, this is why it's completely

pointless to worry about your children. Because you're not even going to think to worry about. The random tree doesn't fall on them on the fucking playground of the school. Some people do think like, I mean, but it's a lot too much. It's not generally people are going to kidnap me and all these other things.

That's true. And it's like, okay. So thus far, the closest call we've ever had was just a tree exploded in the backyard of the school. Yeah. I mean, free accidents do happen.

Yeah. Yeah. It's very scary. And like, you just don't even know what to worry about. That was my thing.

Yeah. That's a good take away. Yeah. That's crazy. That was almost a fucking newsworthy disaster.

Oh, my God. I would have been. It was crazy. But everyone will have a different take away. Someone will be like, I knew God was real.

You know, someone will say, Sam, me, probably. Yeah. There's, there's a lot of takeaways. You just do. Yeah.

You get to pick. Yeah. I mean, I don't think there's much meaning behind it for me. I don't think there's much meaning behind it for me. I don't think there's much meaning behind it for me.

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I don't think there's much meaning behind it for me. I'm just coming out. I was first one in. They told me to go ahead and have 10 minute break. It's just why I'm out here. I was first one in there.

Once I saw it was not dangerous. I was not dangerous. Well, it could be.

It could always get dangerous.

Probably what I'm going to stay close. Oh, okay. Yeah. What do you do for dinner? Okay, and I with my friend Jess, you'd love him.

Oh, you can go. Alright, have fun. I think we're all wrapped up here. Okay, this is interesting. Okay, dates.

So we have a friend who just went on a first date. Oh, we do. And this person brought me up a few times because I'm in stories. Sure, right? Yeah.

And then at some point, the girl was a girl on the day. It's a lesbian on a date with a girl. Okay. Okay. And she brought me up.

Yeah. And then at some point the girl on the date said, "Should I know who that is?" Oh, okay. And then my friend said, "Oh, she's my friend."

Love, love, love, love, love. And then she was telling me this and I was like, "Yeah, this is tricky. It can get tricky if you're bringing up your friends a lot on a date. But they don't really know the backstory.

They don't know like the level of friendship or... Whether either party or... Lenspendably. Exactly. It's actually attracted to one other.

Yeah, if you're bringing up Jess all the time. Exactly. They don't know he's gay. You got to go my gay friend. You go my gay friend.

I know that he's gay. I know that he's gay. Hey, no. But that seems like a weird thing to say. Oh, yeah, I mean, he comes up.

He comes up, right? And so, yeah, I guess I have to say, like, "Oh, my friend." I think I'll just say my friend Jess. And maybe it'll be obvious he's gay. [laughs]

I mean, I don't know. I don't know. To me, it's obvious he's gay, but I know. You know it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You least has a name that could pass as a female. Oh, right. That is true. But if you're talking about Berk, beefy burger, or anything penis related, he'll--

Don't think I'm probably going to bring up beefy burger. Yeah, yeah, it will come up. But anyway, yeah, it's like a weird thing about how much you talk about the other people in your life on a date.

I think it's all in the opposite sex if you're straight and same sex if you're gay.

“I think it's only a thing if you're talking about your accent.”

But it's also fine. On a first date. Yeah, there are versions of it that are totally fine. Right. If you still have complicated feelings about your accent,

it's not the place to discuss that Nora is this new person. They're duty to comfort you through that. Right. There are all these rules. If you've been with someone for a decade,

and you're talking about your life, and then you're going to ignore the last 10 years of your life. You know, like, of course, if you were with someone-- Yeah, I don't think that's a big deal. I don't think it is a big deal either for me.

But I think a lot of people would say that's wrong. Everyone has these rules. I think those people are really insecure and that's their issue. Yeah. I don't think it will bother me.

If all of someone having had an X is too disturbing for you, you have some insecurities. Yeah. That's not that other persons. I know.

I think I'm kind of like, I want to know. Sure. All the details. Yeah, I do. But I don't want them to ask me.

So I think I'm just leaving that off. I think it's like, it's just like, hey,

“what kind of questions would you want to ask?”

I'm going to talk about any of our pasts. Okay, but we're not on a date, we're on a date. Okay. Hi. Well, I don't know if we're further along.

We're dropping this until like the month. The month. I want to know exactly like what kind of info you're interested in about the X. Okay. Yeah, because I think.

So we'll you have to bring her up. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we had to. We were sharing our dog.

And then it just got kind of ridiculous.

And finally, I was like, just you can have snickers.

That was probably hard. I have a friend who is going through that too. It's really. Boyfriend. No, no.

A girlfriend, a girlfriend, a girlfriend of mine. Yeah, but it's tough. Yeah. She's gay. No, she was straight.

She was my girlfriend. No, my friend is gay. Oh. So don't worry. So if you knew it, I would figure out what you're what you want to know about the X.

I know. Well, what do you want to know about next? I don't know.

“I think you want to know what they look like physically.”

No, I actually don't. I don't. Are you sure? Well, you don't want to find out if they were Indian? Oh, fuck.

Because I didn't get a whole thing up. I don't want. Okay. Do it again. You might need to.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So anyways, we had booked this trip. And like we talked about going on it together.

But I was like, I don't want to be in Bombay with my X. So I was like, you can just take someone else. Oh. Yeah. And I transferred my ticket.

Okay. Oh, my God.

First of all, that would not to me.

I'm not like, oh, so she was Indian just because you were going there. I'm just trying to, um, to tempt you. Okay. So, oh, um, have you. I don't even, I wouldn't even ask.

I would. I would say, I would say. Have you been. Have you been. How long were you guys together?

You don't think you go. Have you been to India before? I mean. You don't care. You just want to know what the girl now.

Yeah. Yeah. This was about to say, oh, my gosh, I went to India last year on this kind of random crazy trip. And it was so, it was so cool because I've only been one time before when I was little. And it was really cool.

Oh, are you Indian? I am. Yeah. Well, I've been your Lebanese. Oh, no.

No, no. I'm not. Well, I mean, I was born in Georgia and raised here. But my parents are Indian. Oh, cool.

How long were you with your X? Oh, how long were you with her? Five years. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. From 46 to 51. What happened? Do you mind me asking? Sorry, if that's too private.

I mean, what happened?

Like a million things happened.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I'm hard. Like I could list things and probably just be me blaming her.

But I'm sure I'm half the reason. That's good. Yeah, yeah. That's evolved of you. What are you going to order?

What's she's, oh, you're off of it, you know? The old. She, uh, she Indian. I'm not asking that. I have never asked.

Okay. I was on a date once where it came up. But I didn't ask. He brought it up. What did he say?

He said, like, I'm crazy for Indian and her family. And something about Indian princess. And I was like, I hate this. I absolutely hate this. Oh, wow.

If anyone says Indian princess to me, um, you're not for me. Well, tell, what is the stereotype? Exactly.

I know of the Jewish American princess.

That's a stereotype. Yeah. That's a joke. Yeah. Yeah.

It offends both people. Two groups of people at once. It's a two for. Even if someone said, "Jap" to me.

“I'd be like, I wish you didn't say that.”

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I wish you didn't say that. I wish you didn't say that. I wish you didn't say that. Do you know Ben McKinsey? Have you ever heard of Ben McKinsey?

He was from the OC, but he's also--

I never saw that OC, but I heard it was really great.

Yeah, actually, I also didn't watch it. But he was a big actor on that show. He's also an expert in crypto. He was just on-- What's his whole name?

Which one's his end, too? He's actually pretty critical of it. Oh, he's a hater. He just mad he didn't get in when-- Maybe he's just jealous.

He's just jealous. He's maybe, but I do-- You have a podcast? I do. I do.

Are you? Are you loving me? Oh, no. I'm not-- I'm not.

Sure. I mean, yeah.

“Do you think only loving these people have podcast?”

That's an interesting leave. Hey, I got to go conquer. Oh, that's the way you parked in a lot called Tonka or something? That's when you poop in your car. Oh, you're going outside to poop in your car.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Flock, yeah, can I come? Oh, you're-- Well, that could salvage the-- That could--

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That could-- I just got-- Yeah, that's wrecked my car. [LAUGHTER]

It would probably be a crypto guy that was into. Yeah. So it all makes-- Yeah. Trade off.

Yeah. Everyone's perfect. You're not going to get it all. No, it's perfect. Yeah.

You've got to-- you've got to get the right things. Anyhow, um-- I mean, full honesty. Oh, Rob, he might be here. Lucas for the--

The breast milk guy. Well, breast milk guy. Clostrum man. Rob is-- Clostrum man.

Clostrum man. Going to pick up another drink for us using his ID. It's not alcohol. Full honesty. Yeah.

I'm on a date. Yeah. In the girl goes, if you've seen me, I've got to go shit in my car.

No. I would be like, wow. Who's this person? You would--

No, I mean, yes, I would.

You would be like, who is this person? Yeah. I'm a trade. You'd be intrigued. Yeah.

But you would not-- on a-- You would be like, she's crazy. Well, no, I wouldn't have to develop questions. Okay. Oh, oh, my god.

Um, I'll be right back. Okay. Uh, where are you going? I have to-- Oh, god.

I have to go toonka. What's-- what's-- what's toonka? It-- it's-- we need poop in your car. Okay? And I have to go right now.

“Oh, oh, my god, you have to poop in your car right now.”

I do. Do you mind waiting? Well, I don't mind waiting. Okay. Oh, my god.

You're going to be like-- Yeah. Yeah. Why go in your car and not the bathroom here? Oh, I'm just like so uncomfortable.

I'm really uncomfortable pooping in front of other people. Oh, sure. That's the app. I just kind of like a privacy thing. I know I'm not going to make it home.

How often do you do this? Every time you got to go to a normal bathroom. It's only happened once it almost happened again. Oh, oh. And I can tell it's going to happen right now.

Okay. How about I come out and I'll just hang by the car and make sure no one bothers you. Oh, no. Because you don't only want to knock in on your window. If I see a dude peep in, I'll be like, bro, fuck, give her some privacy.

Okay. That's really, really nice. But the whole-- And I can hold your back to it. Oh, you don't have a--

It's-- there's no bag. You just like poop on this. But that bag next to your feet. Oh, oh. Do you want me to hold that while you're--

It's really kind of-- Yeah. I-- Oh, let me be look out for you. Okay, no.

No. Okay. The whole issue is privacy. Okay. I'm going to look the other way though.

Okay. You're being-- you're being a little pushy. Oh, you think I'm a weird owner? Yeah. Or I'd say something.

You're about to go shit in your car. So once you fucking back off the judgments, to see, no, let's go. Grab your bag. [LAUGHS]

It was a great day, dude. It's so memorable. And he would be-- Like cut to the three years later, I can see him with a microphone in his hand

and his tuxedo on. And I'll go, I knew there was some special about Monica

when on our first date, she looked at me and said,

"If you'll excuse me, I have to talk to you." And for those of you who don't know, Grandma Jane, Grandpa Bill, talk as a-- when a woman uses her car to defecate him. As a toilet.

And I thought, I should get out of here and run. No. I'm going to provide lookout services. And I'm so glad I did. Oh, this is great.

People would cry. They would also throw up. Mm-hmm. At the people at your wedding. Fuck.

I hope this all goes down, man. No. Can you please knock a wood? You better not hope that on my day, I have to talk.

That is literally worst case scenario. And last, he loves it. And then you guys have fast-forwarded to such a level of intimacy and trust and connection. I mean, he has a ton of good.

Yeah. Interesting. Not me. I don't want-- Okay.

I don't want to be the girl that goes in her car all the time. Okay. It happened one time. That all the time. No one wants to be.

I know, but you're the one. You're kind of manifesting it for me. You want me to put a bag in my car. Treshbag. Yeah.

“You just act like that's what you're trying to--”

No, that's manifesting. That's manifesting. That's fascinating. Do you know if you're driving together, you're meeting there?

Okay. That's supposed to be the safe thing to do. I don't know if it's safe or not, but one time I was on a date where the man picked me up. The male.

And at first, I was like, oh, I like that.

Yeah. And as soon as he picked me up, I hated it. Oh. I was like, I really don't like being trapped in the car. Uh-huh.

I don't-- Now I'm aware of how he's driving me. Uh-huh. Precious cargo? Yeah.

And at one point he was just staring at me. And I didn't. And I was like, you need to look at the road. And I didn't like any of it. Yeah.

So we're just going to meet there. Okay. Right. What though, how do we handle at night time? He's not-- or not do it.

Oh, no. Oh, no. But you guys can kiss. He drives you home. Then he's got to get out and open your door and clean out the talk

from your back seat. Put it in your dress again. And then he might want to give you a kiss good night before you go inside.

“If you want to kiss me after I've taunted.”

Yeah. What a stud. Well, a stud and pink. He's pinkie. That's pretty cool.

Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. We like pretty cool. Okay.

All right. Anyway, some facts. Okay. Um, okay. She talks about half man.

The show, and you've since watched it. I'm glad you're bringing this up. Yeah. She was dead right. She loved it.

I love it. And now I even see what she was saying. Because at the time, remember, I think I said, like, yeah, you and I watched things differently. Like, you're recognizing when someone's being represented.

Right.

And you'll always notice it.

Mm-hmm. But anyone would notice it. Yeah. Like the show is that type of show. Yeah.

Where it is, um,

“it's exploring some weird shit that goes down.”

And most boyhoods that I'm aware of. Yeah. Just weird places. So fuck. I don't, I don't think girls know how weird boys are.

Little boys. There's like a whole window where there's so bizarre. Mm-hmm. I can't tell you how many these boys were constantly trying to show me their penises.

And they wanted to sword fight and stuff. Yeah. They just don't, they have these penises. And they don't know what they're doing. They don't know what they're doing.

They don't want to get them out. Yeah. They don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out. And they don't want to get them out.

And Harvard was so intimate. Yeah, it was.

“They're constantly hugging and stretching each other.”

Really, not each other. They're just like this level of intimacy that certainly I didn't see on TV growing up. Right. And by the time I did see it on TV growing up,

it was explicitly sexual between two homosexuals. Exactly. This is this weird zone of this. Yeah, even though it wasn't represented for you. You still did it with Aaron.

Yeah, so like Aaron and I had a very, very intimate, very physically touchy friendship. Yeah. But no penis business. Right.

There were no penis is coming out. Yeah, but not no penis. No, there's no weird sexual component. I'll talk about the behavior that had all, like this weird sexual behavior.

Well, Batman and David Harvard didn't have any sex. They didn't. But it was confusing. And there were times where it seemed they were both confused by the intimacy.

And then he's even going to hook up with a dude or he's like, he's open to if he can give a guy an erection. And he'll like that. Right. Just because he'll be desired.

Right. So just getting into them, this fun gray area. Yeah. And then I loved that show. Of course, as you did you.

I love it. But we were talking about it at lunch.

“And he goes, dude, the other show that's even more extreme than that.”

That I've been watching. I want you to catch up. So we can start watching together. Is half a man. Yeah.

So I did. And then I'll ask Friday when we have the day off. Nate and I went to the lunch. And then we came and got the theater. And I watched two episodes back.

And it was. It was so fun. You know what I mean? Like being in my 20s or something. We're just watching TV.

That's really fun. Okay. Quickly. Is Adam the one. Adam of Sarah.

The one on Instagram with glasses who sends updates. I mean, I think so. Oh, yeah. Okay. He has glasses.

That's definitely what she's talking about. He makes tons of posts directly to camera. Yeah. Yeah. Users know of new features.

Yeah. He's really post direct updates about the platform. He's so fun. He's so cute. He said.

We were his favorite food. He's so smart, too. He is. Who is the model with the gap to name Lauren. Lauren Hutton.

iconic model. Something that came up. And you said everything worth having. Like everything worth having. What's hard.

Yeah. And it reminded me that in high school. Cali's mom got heard this little compass necklace. It was from Coles. And on the back.

It said, there are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going. Yeah. Okay. And I loved that. And they got me the necklace because I loved it so much.

Oh, that's nice. And I love that saying. There's a dude in a. He was a similar.

Almost every cherry says it.

“And I love it every single time, which is.”

I found out that the short cut is the quickest way to the back of the line. I like that. Similar. Yeah. And then it cuts the quickest way at the back of the line.

Although it'd be quicker to just go to the back of the line before you do the shortcuts. It's like, how are you? Yeah, because like, if you're. If you're cutting the line, which is the shortcut, you're not at the back.

Well, the point is the shortcut's never working.

You always have to go back and start. Yeah. I understand the point. Okay. Yeah.

What was the. I like mine. What was yours? There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going. Okay.

I love it. Coles. Coles catch me. Oh. Kelly also got a tattoo of a compass.

That was her first tattoo. She got a compass on her ankle. It was in college. She has since gotten a remit. But she had.

She didn't like the way looked in pictures. Oh. When she was like in heels and stuff. Okay. Compass is a very popular tattoo.

Is it? Yeah. I don't know anyone else with one. I mean, I don't know a lot of people with tattoos other than you. Well, you're seeing.

Um, and her. Um, and Anna. Okay.

I know a lot of people are totally.

Totally. Rob. Madly. Madly. Everyone has tattoos actually.

Erica. Wow. Yeah. Charlie. Yeah.

Okay. Wow. We have. Yeah. At least have my friends.

It's probably right. Michael says about conversation. A conversation falls into three categories. A negotiation, a seduction or a fight. This isn't, this isn't theatrical realm, right?

This isn't every scene or or conversation. Okay. It says or conversation falls into one. It has to be one of those three things. A fight is seduction.

But life doesn't have to. It can't allow a conversation. Doesn't have to.

“But I think he's kind of saying like, it is.”

Like he's representing life. And like that is what happens in life. Life. I don't know. I don't know.

Um, yeah. Um. Okay. The catchphrase. Um, yeah.

Um, okay. The catchphrase from our AT&T commercial. Rob said it in the interview. Just okay. It's not okay.

She thinks there's another. That's what I'm seeing too. I think I'd found another one. Did you? After.

Um. You're away right away. More for your thing. Spot. I think was her.

Oh. Get more for your things. Let me see. That's not a good thing. That's not a good thing.

That's not a good thing. That's not a good thing. If AT&T wants to hire me. Yeah. I will say the short cut line.

Okay. Only that line. Yeah. Oh, wow. I'll say anything you want AT&T.

Actually, I will. That's, I'll compete. Yeah. God. God.

You could hire. You could hire Monica.

“You should know she's only going to say one sentence.”

They should hire you because a long time ago. I think have I done an AT&T commercial? Sure. It may be have, but I do know one of the commercials I lost was an AT&T commercial. It was down to me and this my nemesis.

And she was my nemesis. I lost. I lost a couple roles to this girl. She wasn't in the inore Lebanese. Did you end up knowing her?

I like your chat with her at auditions. Hey, you beat me out a lot, but you beat her out a few times too. I forgot her name. She was like up and cut. She was like becoming a thing.

Uh-huh. And I forget her name. Okay. But she beat me out for this AT&T. I think like campaign.

Okay. And I was upset. And I knew the directors well. I had worked with them a couple times. Really loved them.

Uh-huh. And so that was upsetting. Yeah. That was a hard one. That's a lot of sub.

Couple and a grand problem. Okay. Anyway, so they should make up for that. Oh, AT&T. Fire me now.

As a voice of hers. And like, now you're getting bigger bang for your buck. I only say one thing, but you're getting a bigger bang for your buck. That's right. Yeah, trade us.

I have a voice for radio and AT&T commercials. That's what they say. That's what they say. Yeah. You have a face for AT&T commercials.

Oh, yeah. I have a face for radio. I have a face for radio and a voice for AT&T commercials. Oh. That's what they say.

That's what they always say.

Yeah. Um, all right. Well, that is all. Those were the facts. That's all.

Well, I love Lena. Me too. Great. All over. Great app.

You feel loveable. She is. She's very smart and wise. Yeah. And interesting.

And accomplished. And accomplished. And accomplished. And this is good chatter. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Love you. [MUSIC PLAYING]