Lukas Gage

I'm Jack Shepherd, I'm joined by Monica Padman. - Hi.

- We have an actor with an incredible story

and we're blessed with his memoir, which is I wrote this for attention.

“Today we have Lucas Gajon and y'all wild story, right?”

- Really wild and he was very open with us and it was really lovely. - Yes, incredibly vulnerable. He was in the white lotus, euphoria. You far go, smile too.

And he has a new movie out now on Netflix, Voice Mail for Isabelle. - Great movie. - Great movie. - Say that, great movie.

- Great, please enjoy Lucas Gajon. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - How are you? - You smell really good, do I smell good?

- Yeah, you do. Was I so weird to you at that barbecue one Sunday? - Oh, no, let's start with me apologizing to you. No, I apologize, I feel, okay. - No, you know, put your microphone on.

- Let's start this early, exciting. - Just so you and I were both at a party. - Yeah. - On, thank you. - Sunday.

- You wanna out who it was?

We'd love him. - Oh, Phineas, okay. - Yeah, we were living in Phineas as party. - Yeah. - And you were there, and we said hi to each other.

And you said, "Oh, I'm doing this show this week." And I said, "I know, I'm really excited." - Yeah. - And then I was like, I gotta get the fuck away from this guy immediately.

- 'Cause I don't wanna talk to you, and I discover a bunch of fun stuff about you. And then have to replicate that today. And then I left the party. I was even talking to Ryan Hanson.

- You know what I'm gonna wear? - I know who he is, I can tell you with him, yeah. - We then were together the rest of the day, and I was just a whole day, I was like, I'm so worried that Lucas thinks I'm a dick,

but I just was so like, I don't wanna blow our wanted. - I'm really glad you made that move, because then, yeah, this whole episode had just been a repeat. - That's what I felt though.

I was suddenly in that I felt like I was being a dick to you. - Oh, no. - You talked to Kristen a bunch, right? - Yeah, Kristen was great. She was so lovely.

And I was like, I need to like make up for being so weird about like that. I was holding a taco and I didn't shake your hand 'cause I had a taco in my hand. - Oh, no, I didn't notice any of that.

- I was hyper-aware that I didn't wanna blow my load before our podcast. And then I was like, it's very mutual, okay, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, I'm glad. - I'm sorry.

- You know, Ron, I could about the fact that you're like, what a dick, like, "Hey, I'm doing your show this week." I'm like, "Goal, see you later." (laughing) - Okay, no one wanted to just say like,

we shouldn't talk 'cause we're gonna have to save it. Everyone felt the same. - I probably shouldn't have just said that. - I don't even know that I connected what my impulse was until after the fact.

- Okay. - I don't even know if in that moment, I knew. - I don't think I did either. - Yeah, I thought about it later, I was like,

“maybe that's why I was so awkward with you, because I was so aware.”

And I feel like I have this weird pair of social relationship, but you guys said, "Listen to your podcast." - Oh, yeah. - Oh, yeah. - Oh, we love, that's so fun.

- That's so fun. - That's a weird kind of balancing act of like, do I talk to them before, do I tell them that I don't know? - I love that. - I'm glad we had the same experience.

- Yes, and you know what's really funny, Lucas, is that we've had guests arrive like really early and they've been neurotic about now wanting to talk to me. And I have said to them, "Don't worry, well, you don't need to worry about blowing."

Even Letterman will keep going like, "Oh, it's good and so on." - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, he is like Letterman was like, "Were we're gonna blow stuff?"

- He's the master of conversation, so he knows. - Yeah, he knows. - But also, it's Dave Letterman, I bet we'll be fine. - Yeah. - That's nice, no, even he has those anxieties.

- Yeah, that's nice. - Isn't it comforting? - That is comforting. - Yeah, all of us are terribly insecure. - Yeah.

- So once you hear, your wife made me feel a lot better about it. I talked to her about my insecurity about it. - She told me that she had a very nice chat with you. - She was lovely.

“- Yeah, and I think she told me she said,”

"Oh, well, don't worry, Dex will make sure you're fine." - You didn't say that. - And I will. She was basically, and then she was like crocheting the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life.

- Oh, I know. She's making like a band-dancing point sell. - Yeah, she's like really intricate though. - No. - She'll also do that like on a roller coaster, right?

There's no plane she will be. - Yeah, I'm saying. - Yeah, she could be on the back of a motorcycle and she would be doing it. - I want one, I really want one. - You wanna learn?

- No, I want her to make me want it. - Okay, but we also met in Austin. I'll never forget it. - Okay, tell me.

- First I'll say I've never seen someone

be so composed at a Q&A as you were. You blew my mind. It was the most nuts Q&A with her. - What was it? What was the thing?

- It was the Conor McGregor thing. You were there for a roadhouse. Were you naughty? - Yes, I wasn't naughty. - That was a crazy premiere.

- Yeah. - That was wasted. - And that, please give me your perspective. Because Monica and I have ours. We were there, we experienced it.

But please give me your perspective. - And we'll both be running the risk of getting beat up by Conor McGregor. - Yeah. - I already got in trouble for saying that he fucked my back up and he...

- Oh, I'm not gonna do that. - Oh, I'm in a loving way. I was glad that he beat me up on site.

- Yeah. - I love that.

I could say Conor McGregor, like, fractured my dick.

- You're in a list of very tough people. - Totally. No, I felt really cool, and I'm in it as a compliment. I just remember being next to Postman, Jake, Jill and Hall, and Conor McGregor, and being like,

what the fuck am I doing here? I don't belong here. And I remember you were so sweet. Maybe you're just a good person.

“I think you could feel how nervous I was.”

And you said something about, guys, have you seen Fargo? This kid's really good at acting. It was so cool. You were spectacular. - Exactly. - That's Fargo. - That's Fargo.

- You remember the fucking goofy golfing, dorky husband? - Oh, I know. I know, I know, it's so good. - Thank you guys. - You're just like,

every time the guy talked, you're like, oh, fuck. - Dude, I would-- - I thought you'd be there. - And that was such a good season. - It was a great season. - That was the best. - It was so good.

- Fuck, that was a good season.

- Thank you. But you were so sweet, and I just remember being completely and over my head. I was in over my head as well. - I couldn't tell.

You were so composed. I don't know how you pulled it off. - Well, except the context, so we got invited to, after a screening of Roadhouse, Q&A with the cast. And then I said, I would do that if we could interview Conor.

So we had done that earlier in the day. Conor and Jake together. - Okay. - We did have a really sweet moment at the end of that interviewer. I was encouraging him to embrace the kid who got beat up. You then pursued this because he had been humiliated.

“And remember that boy, and let the other boys know”

that it's okay to be that boy, right? I just begged him, I'm like, so many dudes look at you as the apex of masculinity. You have a great opportunity. Just urge you to share the vulnerable stuff.

And he liked connected with that. He also started drinking in the interview. And it was pretty early in the day. And I just was more like, wow, this is gonna be fascinating to see how he manages this day.

He's got a lot of day ahead of him. He's got a lot of press and then we've got the screening. So we go off and fuck off and have some barbecue and we do whatever. And then we go to the Q&A.

- That's right. - We go to the movie. - Yeah, yeah. - And then I have this whole thing where I try to go on the bathroom security stops me. The bathrooms blocked off, but then it's him and there, and then he lets me in.

I don't know that was like just stage one of like this. And then we were seated one row behind them. And I was just staring at him the whole screening, right? - He also travels with a crew. - We're gonna be P-A-A-A-A-A.

- So many people and everyone was having a lot of fun. - Yeah, he has his own whiskey, right? So he's drinking a fit that what I did notice at one point. I'm watching him drink whiskey and poor glasses for people. And then I noticed the bottle's gone, right?

And I watched him open the top. So I was like, okay, a fifth of whiskey has been drink during this premiere. New bottle comes out. I'm watching some other stuff that I'll say I'll get sued for,

but I'm making some assessments about what all's going on. But it's how we get on that stage.

“And I think I even said to Monica that I was walking out,”

I was like, well, let's see what this is gonna be like. And then you feel like it, I was like, you're in the movie. I have nothing to do with that movie. So I'm already dealing with that like, are people like, why is this guy doing this?

He wasn't in the movie. Quite quickly Connor takes charge. And it's a live audience in when I'm asking certain cast members questions he's answering. I'm now like, how do we play this?

I know what I would normally do, which is I would start making fun of this person, gently, who's on stage and everyone's feeling this. And also it's Connor McGregor and he's gonna fucking kick my ass in front of everybody.

Talk about this stakes being the highest, I think, because you have the on stage component. And then you have the, is he gonna beat me up if I make fun of him? And then I did start gently making fun of him. I said to the woman in the cast, I was like,

I'm gonna ask you this question to Jessica, I remember. Jessica, but Connor's gonna answer. Yeah. And everyone starts dying laughing. And I'm literally like, is this the moment he turns

and looks at me with that haunting look? It's scary. It just comes after me. What do you like after you? You like to do it?

I'm like, okay, we got away with that one. And then it was just me trying to pepper in some jokes acknowledging that we had all lost control of this Q&A because Connor was up there. The craziest thing to happen right afterwards was he had hugged me.

And he was trying to connect with me over that kind of moment we had had in that thing, which is beautiful. Yeah. But I also can't understand what he's saying 'cause he's a very thick Irish accent.

It might be a little drunk. I'm having PTSD from all the times I've been around tough dudes who are too drunk to know the repeating something. And then they catch you catching them and then they want to fight.

Totally. So my home I navigating is we're embracing. This is so stressful. And then by the grace of God, his manager passed out. I was about to say, "What about this?"

This is awesome, right? Funny. I thought about this two days ago. This is so similar and weird. It just popped in my head that that was scary.

Yeah, it was scary. Someone like, "What happened to you?" Someone's having maybe a seizure in the audience. And then thank goodness that happened. Not for that person.

So I killed it. That was the end of that. But Connor would. What? I knew.

He was in rescue mode and I was like, "Oh my God,

"from the second, he let go of me.

"I remember just like, "I'm going to go, "let's get the fuck out of here.

Because I got beat up yet. I was so scared. I was like Googling later. What happened to this guy? Yeah, I was like dehydration or something.

I saw my breakfast and he was fine. Totally fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. So you happen every time I go out. But I'm trying to remember if it was you,

“I think because that whole thing happened,”

then the next day a lot of guys were checking out from the movie and I was out there checking out. And then I was chatting with some guys. And I wanted to say, I think I was talking to you. I was talking to you, yeah.

And someone on this, that was telling me that they figured out all making that movie was that he had arrived with the bodyguard.

And at first, everyone in the cast assumed,

"Oh, people probably try to fuck with him. "That guy's here to protect Connor." And then it started occurring to everyone throughout the shoot. Oh, no, that guy's here to protect us.

Yeah. Wow. Wow, what a way to go through the world. I mean, what do you want to experience, yeah? The most insane experience of all time.

And then just throwing and Jake chillin' all, Donny Darko was my shit as a kid. So I'm like, just trying to keep it together and not paying her over him and not get killed by Connor McGray or things like that.

It's a lot to balance a lot. Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's stressful, so stressful. And it's a lie, man. So it's also a wild tractor.

Everything changes every minute. Yeah. Was it that the craziest work experience you ever had? The craziest I've ever had, but the best experience. And I remember Jake saw me getting a little

frustrated in the beginning and not knowing what to do. And just holding on to my preparation to watch him try to be like the good student.

And he was like, treat every take like a rehearsal.

Nothing matters. Everything's going to change. We're just rehearsing. Oh, great. I'm going to change my whole whole mind.

Then I was fine. Oh, great. Then I was good. He's lovely. He's great.

It's also a very machismo set, right? It's like, all the guys are going to be sure this. We got to be jacked. Yeah, I'm working now. Oh, yeah.

And then Connor's around everyone's fucking even more dripped out. Yeah, it was insane. It was like a fight camp and Dominican Republic. I can only imagine how that experience would have gone for

me at your age where I am that movie and Connor was there. And then let's say I was drinking too. I want to go through the whole thing without some. I might have gone down for a minute. I would be here with like a iPad.

John probably. Oh, speaking of you, a very nice teeth. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I got a knockout. How'd you get him knocked out? I got chomped. Well, 18. Wow.

Well, how will he scars on my face? Oh, my God. It sounds very traumatic. You're smiling very hard. I mean, because you're so happy to have gotten the tune.

I love my face. I love my busted of an ears. I know. That's my go to. I like laugh about the most fucked up shit and covered up with a smile

and talk about the most mundane things as it's very emotional for me for some reason. But yet, I was out of party and got chomped. My friend got beat up for being gay and I think there was maybe some part of me that was subconsciously. I wasn't out or anything, but I was protecting him and myself, I think.

Yeah. And I jumped in and guys just beat the shit out of me. How many guys, is this a San Diego party party? Yeah. Explain the dudes or they serve for dudes or they fucking glamour dudes.

They're like somewhere in between. They were like rich kids that were a little broy and a little MAGA vibes. I think. And yeah, I don't know. Did you watch Veronica Mars?

Of course. They shot in Notion side. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was very much the vibe in San Diego. He just got beat up for being gay and I think I was wearing a pink tank top and called him

a f*ck it. And I was like, you're the f*cking wearing a pink tank top. That didn't go out in Notco. Yeah. Oh my god.

So yeah. Five guys against me, like broke my teeth, broke my nose, broke my orbital. Oh my god.

“That's why I have a very punchable face.”

No. No. No. I do. They have a loveable face.

Yeah. Were you in the hospital for this? I was. Yeah. This is horrible.

For how many days? Just like a day after it happened and then I had to go back to put everything back together for a bit. Okay. There was a little reconstruction.

There was a little reconstruction. The nose was like completely f*cking really rough. Really rough. Yeah. Okay.

These guys go to jail. I left this part of the story.

I threw the first punch after he got mad of me, gone f*ck back.

Even though he was already attacking the kid and they got lawyers that said that technically it was self-defense. Oh my god. No. No one got faulted for it.

It was bullshit. Oh. It's like no fault accident. Oh my god. I don't like him.

No. How much older is core your brother than you? Does that same brother? Yeah. Of course.

Seven years older.

“And when he found out about this, what was his reaction?”

How did you know that though, by the way? You do your research. Damn. Okay. That's like he just scratched the surface.

You wait. He knows a lot about you. He was an army at that time and dealing with his own recovery and I think he got kicked out of the army at the same time and we were not on the best of speaking terms at that

So he can go ape shit. You would have if he was there. Yeah. Yeah. Detective mode for sure.

Okay. So is it just you two? I have three older brothers. Three older brothers. Yes.

Okay. What are the ages?

Core is the second oldest.

He's the second. He's the oldest. He's nine year old. No. He's a lot.

My mom was 19 when she had him. Oh, really? And then that husband passed away. May I ask how that's young to pass away? And a motorcycle accident.

Oh. And my mom rode motorcycles together. Oh. Yeah. It was bad.

It was really bad. It was like a month before he was born. Oh. Yeah. Yes.

Then years later, my mom was about us and got in trouble for like selling drugs. She needed a lawyer and met Corey's dad. Oh, wow. He ended up being an asshole. They separated and then she met me and my full brother Travis, his dad.

And he's four years older than me. And you're the baby. And I'm the baby. Yeah. She called it after that.

I think I was her favorite mistake. I don't think I was supposed to do one. Okay.

And how long were your mom and dad together?

How did they meet? What did he do for a living? Just from New York. Yeah. He was a genius.

Went to Cornell at 14, skipped a bunch of grades. They met at a bar. Oh. He's a vonderkin. Yeah.

He was next level smart.

“And then met my mom at a bar in San Diego and I think was one of his first relationships”

ever. Like a 28. Oh, yeah. Okay. So he's kind of a totally.

Yeah. And your mother was wild. So he's completely the opposite. He just had to hang on for dear life. Yeah.

They worked out. I don't know for a little bit. How long were they together? I want to say like eight years. And what do you do for a living?

He was a doctor. Well, kind. He did a bunch of anesthesiologists and then we're doing pain management. Any of Austria? I lost touch with him.

He left when I was a teenager. He got remarried and had kids and decided that was it. Yeah. You've already had a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even since you've been on TV, he hasn't felt compelled to reach out. He's reached out once or twice since that like 10 year gap of not talking.

When I was your age, I was probably an apex issues with my dad. They look. I think maybe there's time for things to change. And I think as I've gotten older, the anger I've had for him has dissipated and more until I guess in understanding of like just like a different time that he was grown up

in the way that he was showing love as a kid and the way that that was passed on. Like I feel like you can only show a little love or give the love that you were shown. Yeah. Yeah. So I can kind of have compassion for him because he was so brilliant in one category

to see a deficit. And others. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

If he's 28 years, he's been his first girlfriend a hundred percent.

Yeah. And he was a Cornell at 14. He's probably not having the real world. He's probably the real world. He's been there with Ronan.

Yeah. So what was life like in Encinitas? It was amazing. It was like Veronica Mars. We had surf pee at school.

You did. We started school with surfing every day. You wore shorts to school. Yeah. And yeah.

Dang, yeah. Oh my god. No, that was allowed in my school. Is it short? Short sort definitely allowed.

Short sort not allowed in school. I use the most of that. In public school. Yeah. You're allowed to work short.

I know. And I talked to her. They had to be two fingers thick. Oh, like why? Like that's so stupid.

Well, these people's titties are hanging out. Yeah. The two straps held. Well, and I've done the hard. But it's spaghetti strap.

All right. What about hats? Could you wear hats? I don't think we were allowed to wear hats. Yeah.

They draw hard. Why? Why was it hard? I don't know.

“I think it's a carryover from like it being rude to wear a hat”

and doors from like the thirties. Somehow it's a sign of disrespect. Do you think it's like a racism thing? Not a mind school. Okay.

Yeah. Where do you guys go to school? I was in Georgia. And Georgia. Okay.

So you know, there's that Southern polite. No. So that maybe is part of it. We know about a restaurant where they didn't allow hats, because they didn't block customers.

Yeah. I saw I think she's grass. I was saying maybe that was something to do with it. I don't think it did. I'll ask.

Yeah. Because no student was like, what's about the hat policy? Yeah. I don't know. I'm not going to that one.

You're going to whatever school whatever district you're born in. You're not like shopping. Yeah. Where were you in a suburb of Detroit? Okay.

And how did you do socially? I was fine. I think I got by middle schools rough, right? I did change middle schools. Yeah.

Okay. What happened in middle school? This fucking kid. I stole my brother Corey cigarettes and we smoked to cigarette and then he told the whole school that like I tied him down and forced him to force him to smoke.

Yeah. That was the thing that they bullied me for. Oh. So funny. Yeah.

It's very abstract. It's really abstract.

“But I think it turned a little gay like I pinned him down and forced him to.”

That was the subtext. Yeah. That was the subtext. We're calling this a smoking infraction, but it's a gay infraction for sure. Okay.

So I just got completely tortured. And then I went to the new school and the new district and I was like, I'm not going

I'm going to be the asshole.

You made a pivot. No, I was like the dick for a year. Okay. So you were Jason Darring from also. Yeah.

“I think everyone in Orange County might have Jason Darring to get some point.”

Yeah. I think you have to be. Can you tell me about the loneliness of that middle school when you're getting bullied in the self-consciousness and you hear like the footsteps running and you're like, oh, fuck is this fight for me?

Do you have all that stuff? Just terrorize him getting beat up every day and getting shot down with like BB guns. And it was what you think of when you see school bully stuff on TV where you're like, that doesn't happen. Did you have anybody's that were like, I'm so sorry.

This is happening. My brothers, I'll carry and Travis, they were like having my back and being protective. They were my friends. When does Corey start getting mixed up with drugs? He started using heroin at 14.

But 14. How did that come into his purview? I think just friends. So heroin was really popular in San Diego like by the time I graduated about eight people in my class, I had overdosed.

Really? Yeah. While there's due attribute that to its proximity to Mexico, yeah, I mean, we would go to Tijuana and get drugs when we were kids and go at lunch and get tacos and drugs and then go.

Yeah, I read the go-to at lunch to Tijuana. Yeah. That's crazy to me. What? How far is it?

It was easier back then to go back and forth through the water. But it's probably a 30 minute, 20 minute drive and then you just park your car at the McDonald's and walk over and then walk back. Wow. Yeah, I had this girlfriend in high school who kind of like showed me the ropes and was

iconic and was like, we're going to go get all these stuff and I'm going to come bring it back and I guess maybe they knew where to go and where to get it, but I just remember it being so easy. That is wild. That's dangerous.

Very. If I could have left my high school, then I have an hour in mind. You should have that. It would've been mad. Yeah.

It would you drink at lunch? Yeah, everything. Okay. Everything. I got it all out of my system by the time I was 18.

What you go to your dad's house on Father's Day when you're 13 to see him, you spend the night.

I can't believe his research always.

Yeah. When one happens, I get Paris Hiltoned. I get kidnapped and I know the night and sent to a wilderness camp. It sounds so nice when you call it a wilderness camp. Yeah.

So you have that full experience. Yeah, I got fully kidnapped. When it's happening is your dad shouting, "Buy arranged us, you're going to a wilderness camp. You're going to be a great repeller when you're done with us."

Yeah. But do worry. Yeah. Yeah. I think he couldn't even look at me.

I think he couldn't look at me. And I remember calling out for his help and being like, "This is your chance to make it right." What were the behavioral things that had led up to that decision on their part? Yeah.

It was a nightmare kid. I think not only was I starting to use substances as a really young age. I found out later that my mom, she was in Kahuts with my dad about it. That was the biggest shock to me because I didn't think my mom would do that. But I think other than that, as a kid, I was crying out for attention, crying out for

validation, screaming, fighting, biting. I literally bit kids all of elementary school. You were a Biden. I was a biter. Oh, wow.

So I definitely had behavioral problems.

You always hear people talking about the biter in their school, but you don't ever meet

the biter. I was the biter. Would you see like a little piece of a part of someone's body, but yeah, I'm going to fucking sink my teeth into that?

“Do you remember to forget a patient or a very impulsive?”

No. It's not kicky. It is not. I think it would be like a kid would beat me on a humble and like eating me and me about it.

And then I'd be like, oh, I'm going to fuck you up and push him and fight him. I got a rage. I would see red as a kid and I would go off and I got a plotted for it, too. My big brothers, they've loved it. They would dare me.

We'd love Chuck, I was growing up and all that stuff. So I'd get naked and go into like the bonds and screaming. My God. But they would videotape me on their skateboard. So I was rewarded for being a bullshit.

I'm not shit. That was the way I got attention. That was the way I got validation, that was the way I felt like they loved me. Yeah. You know?

I feel bad because like I am judgmental of anyone who sends their kid to a wilderness camp, but also I imagine being the parent. You're terrified, right? What do you do? They're like, they're going to die.

Yeah. 100%. I'm going to walk in and I'm going to go to wake them up for school and they're going to be dead. So whatever thing I'm going to choose is going to be less bad than that.

Yeah.

“And I think my mom, too, being a single mom, dealing with a kid that was using her.”

I think she was just like, I cannot deal with another nightmare. We have to reform this kid, get him away. And when it's going to get into a legal trouble and medical issue, so she was really happy. She was keeping it and working and trying to keep her head above water.

It was crazy. I think you have the thing I had, right, which is like dad laughs, so dad's the villain and mom's an angel. No, I'm almost imperfect. Oh, okay.

Yeah. But I love her and I ride for her no matter what, you know, she's a badass and to care of us and actually I can't do that. Yeah. Cause you're like, oh, one stuck around.

And you're like, fuck, think I'd one stuck around. I, I really owe this one, you know what you're like, it's an option to leave.

I still on Mom's Boy. Yeah. That's lovely. Yeah.

So what was the wilderness camp like?

Also, I'm sure the literature that was shown to them, the pamphlet probably looked really constructive. Oh, yeah. It was like orange growth. Like something really like happy.

And then he's objective, I remember them thinking it would be a good thing. And it was just chicken and a bag, rice and a bag, hears your tent, learn how to build it, go hike for like 12 hours, be alone. If I did something bad one day, like I wrote an SOS letter and like centered around a ran away in the middle of the night and like made it with like the arts and crafts.

Like crafted an SOS letter and they put me in isolation in the middle of the mountain for like a day. Oh. They would do the classic thing where they knock you down to build you back up and think that their system is the right way to do it and just make you feel horrible by

yourself. Did you have any positive impact on your behavior? No. I did the complete opposite. I rebelled twice as hard when I came out.

I fucking was even more of a nightmare. I didn't trust anybody. Yeah.

I fought with other kids.

I don't know. I made me resilient. Maybe. Sure.

“I think in all fucked up things, but I don't even want to give them that.”

Yeah. I guess every bad thing that has happened to me or every hardship I've gone through. I have learned something. Yeah. I think it's one more thing you're like, well, I survive that thing.

Yeah. Proof of survival. I didn't have to be there. I lived and now I'm past that. I don't subscribe to what they did.

That was another common thing in my high school was like people went to Juvee and Rehubs and Utah, like all these crazy places that were doing way worshiped. I was molested out of regular summer camp, not at that camp. Yeah. Yeah.

Really helped me with, by the way. Have I? Well, just the way that you talk about it. I've had a therapist tell me a hundred times, not your fault, not your fault. And when you talk, I think it was on Anna Kendrick's podcast or another podcast you talked

about no matter how many times people can say that you felt like you were an active participant. There was a curiosity there. Yeah. There's still my culpability. You're aware of mine was I wanted this go-car, you know, like I knew I should not

be there. Yeah. I really wanted this go-car. I mean, promise that I could buy it for a very suspicions. I'm fine.

You still have to buy it? You still have to buy it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no, no, no.

I was like, bad deal. The thing was worth like $500, but I was going to be able to buy it for $109,000. I was going to mold this many grasses. Yeah. It's so sad.

It's so embarrassing. But I got to tell you, man, I've had a new like shown on that whole experience. We had this expert who teaches at Johns Hopkins and she's ahead of this program that does nothing but study child sexual abuse. And she's like 70% of sexual abuse is by other kids.

And so although this dude was way older than me, he also wasn't 18. Now I don't know. Like I said, this guilt of like fuck, I should have turned him in. I don't know how many people he fucked with. But now after talking to her, I'm like, I don't know then he ever did.

I don't know. Right. Like, I might have just been this weird fucking thing. I don't know if he was a pedophile or what? I get that your mind goes so that I'm not being able to like put it together, piece

it together. What it actually was.

“I think for so long, I felt like, well, I wanted it.”

Yeah. And like my therapist could be like, well, you're in your 20s and would you hook up with a 10 year old? And I'm like, fuck no. Right.

But it didn't matter. But when I heard you talk about that and the way that you had those conflicting thoughts about it, because you wanted that thing and you were looking for that thing that you felt so much guilt and shame and to look back at little dacks and little Lucas and be like, yeah, but of course you did.

You want to be good. You want to be good. I violated my body telling me something and also, yeah, I was a little kid who wanted to go cart. I can forgive that.

I can't just pretend that I didn't get any signals. That was the part that was corrosive to me. Yeah. Because I knew there was some part of me that played a role. All right.

That's what I felt. Yeah. I think it's where the real guilt is. I think people miss it. It hasn't happened to.

I think so too. And I don't know if you did this. I think it joke about it being like, how could I not have been molested or I was like, a slutty little ten-year-old like that was my joke that I wanted to tell my- You were irresistible.

I was irresistible.

“Am I there was like you have to stop doing this.”

You cannot use that as a coping mechanism. Right. It's weird. I can have a medical professional tell me at a hundred times. But hearing you talk about that and that interview really, really, really, really, really.

Oh, that was really, really happy. Yeah. Stay tuned for our share expert. If you're there, we are supported by all state.

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plans are subject to terms, conditions and availability insurance provided by all state North American insurance company North Brook, Illinois roadside assistance plans provided by all state motor club incorporated in all state of failure. It's funny and say that though, isn't it true, there's such a power in watching someone else process something that can get through to you or if it's being directed at me, it can't.

I remember there was a moment where Monica was getting interviewed by a therapist or

hypnotist and she was telling the story and I had seen her tell it a million times and

the therapist said, I don't know why you're smiling. Yeah. It was God romantic. It was God. Of course it was.

Yeah. He said, why are you smiling? He said, is it funny? No. I mean, I was telling like a sad story or something.

“I don't remember what I was saying, but I said, no, and then he was like, why are you smiling?”

And then it wasn't rhetorical. He was really asking. I was like, I guess because I'm uncomfortable and you really had to start like breaking it down. Breaking it down.

I was doing it. I did it earlier too. I get it. I get it. I do it.

It's almost like you want the other. You're signaling like, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I don't feel bad.

I want to make you comfortable. If you don't feel like uncomfortable with my weird shit with this awkward story. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I mean, I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to tell you. I'm just really trying to hide it. I was hiding doing plays and stuff in the town over because gay. Yeah, you were obviously you had a real secret. Yeah, a lot of secrets.

They're corrosive.

You said you have a cousin that came out gay and always knew.

And you had some jealousy of that. Yeah. And then I guess that's interesting. It should be obvious. There's every version of everything on planet earth.

But I'm so used to hearing gay folks say like, oh, yeah, I always knew. And I kind of am interested in the notion that could be a slower burn. I think honestly, a lot of it like my first sexual experiences was. I started talking about molestations so much. Yeah, being molested by guy.

So there was a lot of that wrapped up into it. So I really loved these girlfriends. I had. I was obsessed with them. I was obsessed with love from a very young age.

And I was so happy to just be sexual and be physical and be in love with these girls. And if any kind of thought like that would go through my mind, I would justify it with like, well, I was molested though. It's like, yeah, some residual trauma from 100%. I don't know if I blacked out before that of having that awareness.

But I really don't think I did. I really think that any kind of inkling or curiosity or suspicion of it was. Then being like, but you got molested.

“That's why that of course you feel that right sometimes.”

But like you love your girlfriend. You love your girlfriend. And a part of you really did. Yeah. And a part of me said something on some podcast where I piss people off.

Or I say, like, I'm 10% straight or something. Yeah. Because like, every once in a while, I do have sex with girls. I know I'm pretty damn gay. You know, like, I'm pretty gay.

Do you want to English teacher? I've watched English teacher. Yeah. I love it so much. I think it's the funny show I wrote.

Oh, funny.

What in the second season?

He goes in. He's around either a sister or a female friends fiance. And the guy is presenting is very, very gay. But he's saying he's by at some point. He confronts him.

I don't know if you saw this. He means like, I don't know, man. You're reading very gay to me. Like, what percentage? And the guy is like, well, I'm 90% gay and 10% buy.

And he goes, so you're 5% straight. I don't know whatever the mouth will be. Maybe that's where I got it from. And I literally deleted my interview. He doesn't have fun either.

“Well, if you're 10% gay, you really don't have my perspective.”

That is so funny. That's so crazy.

Yeah. You can tell why someone is. You know, I know someone like this. And it's all heartbreaking. This is all the byproduct of fucking being shit on and victimized.

So it's like, there is a period for some gay dudes where they feel like the easier softer path. This is, say, I'm buy. We're still at least right by now gay later.

That's like a saying from the 90s when kids would first come out.

Is buy. And so buy now gay later. Yeah. It's pretty good. Kind of like, yeah.

It's solid. I want to give it tattoo. Yeah. Yeah. I like it.

Oh my god. I've never heard of it. I've never heard of it.

“I think because in the 90s, people were starting to really identify as buy.”

We're trying to use things. Yeah. We were like, buy now gay later. But for those people who had that specific thing where they were just gay. But they were pretending to be buy to lessen the blood.

But everyone around them, they then realized I was being dishonest with myself. I'm 100% gay. So they're hearing your story is very easy for them to project. Oh, he's still trying to preserve. He's got 10% of a to hold in this shame.

Yeah. And that's why he's saying that. Yeah. But that's not fair to anyone. I mean, but maybe though, I feel like there was a part of me that was preserving it.

At first, when I first started experimenting guys, I hooked up with my neighbor. But then after that, I was like, can't only get up with couples. And it was a guy in a girl and that will be less, you know. There was like addiction stuff. Yeah, I didn't.

Totally definitely was. Here's my fake roadblock. Yeah. It won't get worse. Exactly.

Compartmentalize it. Well, that's one other thing I want to talk about. It's saying he goes a real military town. Yeah. And I'm imagining that kind of compounds the masculine vibe a little bit.

Like the hyper masculine vibe 100%. There's a lot of that. It's a bro culture out there. That's where the Navy seals are based, right? Yeah.

There's a lot of them going around.

“I think especially when you're dad leaves and you don't have like that male figure in your house.”

Well, I had a step dad that was around for a little bit. But to look at that as what masculinity is as a teenager and having that around you and being like, Oh, I have to be that. Yeah. It's probably why I was such an asshole when I went to my new school.

Is like trying to emulate these marines that before walking around my town. Because I'm like, this is what it means to be a man and to not be fucked with. Yeah. You know, you guys are not getting beat up in the hallway. No.

Yeah, yeah. They're on Grindr though. Yeah. Is sure.

I see these depicted in movies and it always breaks my heart.

I think it may be sadizing that can happen to young gay boys. They end up having a secret relationship. And then like the toxic nature of the secrecy ends up being so cruel to one another. Because they're both hiding. And that seems to me to be the heart breaking as part.

Like you can't even have the beautiful fun loving fling. Did you have any of those situations? 100%. I was super in love with my neighbor. The first guy I'd ever been with was with him for three years.

Hiding it for a year from everybody. And it was tearing him down that I had to finally. It was after a little mermaid audition that I came out to everybody. That's a good time to do. Great time to do it.

Right? And like, crying and auditions. They're like, tell us the secret that you have. And I realize that the secret that was so fun at first and like made it so hot.

“Like, I think it's really sexy to have a secret.”

Until it's not until it just like eats you. Fucking. When it's your identity. I didn't want to be out loud about it. And you didn't have a secret.

He was really kind and really consider it and buried like when you're ready. It's whatever. But then I think after years, like, dude, come on. You got to come clean. Yeah.

Was the pressure compounded by all these older brothers? I can't imagine that would help. I got to give it to my brothers. They were pretty cool and pretty artsy. Even though they beat me up.

They were still like that side of them that didn't give a shit about that. But if I'm being honest, I think a lot of it came from Hollywood and the industry of being like, do not come out because you're only going to play gay. You're only going to be seen as the gay guy. And that was true.

I was. And I think it's still a little bit true. I think it's definitely still. I mean, look, we have like Jonathan Bailey now who's everyone's in love with. Yeah.

Rightfully so. But like, there is still resistance. Not with like, can Lucas play a leading guy. Yeah. Yeah.

It's interesting. I know a very, very famous adored malactor who I know is gay.

And I've never heard him say it in public.

And he plays a lot of sexy heterodudes. And I do wonder, like, is he not telling anyone because of that? And then also if people knew what that impact, you never know. I don't know when that time has come. I remember when Anne Hase was in the movie with Harrison Ford.

And she had just come out. And people were like, what? How am I going to buy into that? She's in love with Harrison. But forget the age.

That's fine. He's all the other. That's normal. That's normal. That's make sense.

But what about her being lesbian?

Like, I don't love the idea that people can't play other people.

I hate it. That's bullshit. The only time I was ever defensive of it is I was like, when straight news we're getting cast is famous gay characters. I was like, well, y'all, if you're not going to give him the fucking straight role.

Right. Yeah. That did feel uniquely unfair. Yeah. I agree with you on that part.

I did feel that way. But with every other scenario, I get really territorial and defensive of people when they come for them. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's bullshit. Let's go through the timeline of starting to work. What age were you? I think I was like 20 or 21 when I did American Bandole. That was good.

It was a recurring role on a Netflix show that people liked. And then I did this kid show with Claudia, actually. Oh. I did the same time or the year before that.

“That's why my Claudia excuse one of the best people of all time.”

Yeah. We love her so much.

And then I think it was a year two after that.

I was 22, 23. I reached out to Sam Levinson because I saw another happy day. It reminded me of my family. I wrote this long letter. He says that he's doing this movie in New Orleans right now.

And I like convince a New Orleans agent. I lied to them and say live in New Orleans. Local hire. Local hire. Save a couple bucks for production.

I meet him. I lie. I get on a plane. I work with him. And then a year later he put me in you for you.

So that's where it really all. Because the part of the story I really want to learn about. You were getting accused of queer bathing. Yeah. So they thought you were straight in acting.

What did they think? Yeah. They were like you're taking gay roles in your straight. There we go. Okay.

Yeah. And you're like, but I love Britney Spears. And I'm making out a man. Exactly. It was obviously that's an online thing.

Yeah. So when do you become aware of that? Immediately. You're checking your Instagram and your Twitter and you're getting DMs all the time. And what kind of things would people set?

Just like your piece of shit. How dare you take, you know. And I'm just like reading them. And at first it's funny. And I'm like, oh, you guys have no idea.

And then it starts to really piss you off. I had this like viral tweet moment where someone said like, I hate him and I hate his fucking face. And I hate that he takes roles from gay people. And I've wrote something.

I think I was drunk when I wrote it. But I wrote like, you don't know my alphabet or something like that. And then he's like, well, inform us. And then I just wrote no with a heart. And people liked it.

I guess.

“And I think that they were like good for him for not feeling like he has to”

Disclame what he is to some troll on internet. Again, it's one of these things where you really can't ever win. You can't ever win. Be it on the next year. You get married to a guy on the Kardashians.

And then they fucking hate your guts. So it's just like, you cannot fucking win. Get going all the way with it. It adds to my hate that. Oh my God.

So how much was it affecting you? And how did you decide to then be public about it? And was it motivated by that like to shut these people up? Maybe there was some defiance in me to be like, I'm going to push back and be so on your fucking face about it. But then another part of me was in a weird area where I got manic and married a stranger after a couple weeks of knowing them.

Yeah. What? Okay. So we need to buy it. And again, this won't be fun for you because I know when I'm inside of crisis things.

I just am convinced everyone knows about it. So one thing is like, I didn't know about the viral moment with the director. Oh great. I love that. I love that.

And you didn't know my love. Ryan Hansen, he knows everything. Of course, he's laying down. I mean, I know my one say I'm afraid to talk to him. I don't want to run.

Oh yeah. Yeah. That like really cool thing. Well, you tell the story. Yeah.

I know you're sick of it. I'm just trying to get that truly a lot of people have no clue. Until now. I love that you guys don't know. I mean, it's great.

Yeah. Basically it was like the first audition during COVID. It was a zoom. Everyone turns their cameras off. It goes quiet.

They're like, you ready to go. The director forgot to mute his microphone. So he's like with his wife or somebody's like, Oh my God. Look at this poor actor and this shitty apartment. No, I didn't say.

It was tiny apartment with a TV and a bed and the sofa and the same room as it did. And then I was just like, Oh, your mics still on. Uh-huh. Really quick. Yeah.

That's a decision. You've made a choice. You're a real actor. Because you're like, I could have pretend I didn't hear this. Yeah.

And he'll never know or maybe he'll not say it though.

“But I think a lot of people would have just pretended it.”

Yeah. So I love, okay. I love you. I was like, I know that it's a shitty apartment. But if you give me this job, I'll get a better apartment.

Yeah. That's great. And it was true. I love the apartment. It was a cute little studio apartment down the road.

And then I made it as a part of like an improv of the scene. And like I incorporated it. Maybe I probably did it a little too much. Sure. He went that way.

He went that way.

I was like, yeah, he can come back to my tiny apartment later.

Like, I was so using it. And she didn't know if you hadn't called him out. And then you did the audition. And you said tiny apartment in the audition. He would have his face would have caught on fire.

Yeah. That's the real thing. That was probably the smartest. Yeah. Okay.

So you got the role? No, I didn't get the role. But there's a happy ending. Okay. The next audition was White Lotus.

Come on. Yeah, you got role. So if I got that one, I wouldn't have been done white lotus. And then after a night of fun during white lotus, a couple months later, I decided to post the video.

Oh, because you would record it. It will be a record on our end. Yeah. We had to be like a cinematographer and her editor. I was like, so annoying.

And so I posted it and woke up to a hundred calls.

And like, a hundred thousand requests.

It's very viral. It was really viral. Wow. Ryan Hansen saw. He knew the whole story.

Yeah. He loved it by the way. He's like, oh, the way he handled it was so cool. Yeah.

“When that video happened, I was like a champion for actors, right?”

Or a month. And then the month later, I was a fucking liar. I was the kid who calmed a video with a director to get sympathy to get on white lotus.

Oh, that was the narrative they had. That was the next narrative. Well, how could you have possibly manipulated the guy and to talk about your support? Lisa statement apologizing.

I'm like, how could I pull this out? They're like, that's the greatest marketing move ever. It's insane what people believe versus the real things they refuse to believe. I don't know.

Between what's being crazy. I ignored about objective reality. And then embraced about fucking conspiracies is mind-blowing. It's insane. It's just like the back and forth of like people loving me.

And saying I'm a hero to being like this guy is a fucking piece of shit. And we hate him. And the ride you're on. Yeah. At a high-enjecture dopamine system,

even if you're not prone to mania, it can put you there. Oh, yeah. What was happening like emotionally? I heard you say, like, it really suck.

I had a moment as an actor. I had some pop. I was on some shit. And then I kind of didn't have that. And then I had this moment as like,

I don't know what you even call that. Like a public face. A public face. And you said, like, this feels like a 15 minutes of fame thing, which I don't like. It probably was also complicated.

I would have loved being a hero for a moment. Yeah. That would be all right. But even that is like not the right messaging to get somebody. I think that can fuck you up, too.

Yeah. It's fraudulent. It's an unreal. None of this is fucking real. Yeah.

It doesn't matter.

“But I think I was just so narcissistic at that time.”

And like so obsessed of what everyone was saying. And so focused on myself. Hard not to. It's hard not to. And you're like, oh, Jesus.

Now I'm just famous for this thing. No one's ever going to take me serious. It's an actor. Well, it's like all the stuff takes precedent of all the hard work that I'd put in for a decade that I was really trying to focus on that. And suddenly it's just only the headlines that people know you from.

So I rewatch a bunch of your scenes on White Lotus today. You're so fucking great on that dude. You're so great on it. You have like a real unique point of view as that character. Yeah.

Yeah. Watching Jennifer Coolidge and Murray Bartlett and Molly Shannon on set. That's like the best comedy lesson. They are unreal. The coolest people ever.

And we got so close on that show. These were all living at that four seasons. And we were only four seasons. During the COVID no one lived there but us. Oh, dude.

And like the expectation wasn't there yet. We didn't know what it was going to be. Yeah. Now she's like, oh, this fun show. But then it's the biggest show.

I just learned so much from them about. I think what I was talking about with Doug Lyman to actually. It's like not going in with a plan. If not being like I'm a good student and I'm prepared and look at like all the choices I made last night that doesn't fucking matter. You're going to find something better on the day that's fresh.

The camera loves that. And so just watching them every take do something different. You know, a 25 year old green actor was like, Oh, you can do that. You're allowed to go outside of this parameter. Try a bunch of shit and it's okay if you eat shit because they won't use it.

I'm going to do it.

Well, you were protected by Mike White who has an impeccable and amazing taste.

Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Did you hang with him a bit? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I love Mike. He's the best. Yeah. He's a very fascinating dude. The most fascinating smart guy I've ever met.

I think disarming too. You know, hold on. That's guy's the showrunner. 100%. Yeah.

Yeah. He has a figure doubt. I was just going to say, I'm like, I want to like make a show. So be a director, writer, go to fucking survivor in the amazing race and come back to HBO. Yeah.

Right. That's so cool. Yeah. This does whatever the fuck you want.

“I'm going to go like, when do I must want to be in another country?”

Yeah. I'm going to go to the France. Oh, dreamy. Okay. Well, these notes on me.

Can I read them? No.

No.

I'm trying to think of something terrible.

I didn't want to do it. I'm not telling this is having a couple of times that you expect people to think that. You expect people to not like you or to have an idea about you. Well, I think I get it. I go in.

I humiliate myself or make fun of myself before they can beat me. Yeah. It's your armor. Yeah. I expect it.

But it's not happening. Over here. I like you. I like you when I met you in Austin. I have nothing but good feelings about you.

Okay. Fargo. How do you get that role? Walk me through getting that role. I was in London.

I self-tape myself for I think every. I don't know if you experience this as an actor where. They would have you audition for the guy. They love you. But they're like he's just not.

Right. But we're going to bring him back for this one. And then this one like that was the trajectory of every single. You for a white lotus. Fargo.

You every single time. It's like they bring me in for something else. And they don't know what to do with me. But they're intrigued. They're intrigued.

Yeah. That's great. There's something there.

“And I think that was another scenario where I was like,”

I love this show.

I want to work with Noah Hawley.

I'm just going to keep auditioning and keep saying tapes until he says yes. And so that character. Was obviously written. You auditioned for that. Yeah.

It's not like he'd seen you trying all these other characters. And I'm like, oh, let's put him up. Actually, I think of that one. I think I tried out for like Joe Curie's role and another guy. And I got close.

And then I think he was like. Just given that one. Uh-huh. I think it was. I think it was that situation and that one.

Oh, my God. Are you great? Yeah, you're great. Thank you. What did you say you a show on Netflix?

Yeah. I don't remember. I'm going to London season. I love that one. The American I get's heat on.

Oh, you got peed on. Oh. Oh. Oh. Tell me.

No, I can't want to spoil it. I don't want to spoil it. I don't want to spoil it. I don't want to spoil it. It's already been spoiled.

He gets peed on. Well, he's done me. He got shut on his wall. It happens in that show. I got obsessed with that show.

Last year. I think.

“And every time I would come into the fact check.”

I was like, OK, so I'm watching you a show on Netflix. Because I'm not going to be. And I prefer that she said I'm watching a show on Netflix called you. But she refuses to do that.

She would always go watching you.

That happened a lot. I'm a bird. I'm a bird. I'm a bird. I'm a bird.

For a bargain bird. Oh, oh. What's her name from Fox News? I'm a bird. No, no, no.

All right. All right. All right. All right. All right.

You've seen that. All right. Is there a way? Oh, you. What are you?

What are you showing? What are you talking about? So stupid. I'm on a show on Netflix. What?

What? What are you? Oh, it's worth not so much. I don't know. I don't know.

No. No. We didn't do a show on me. We didn't do a show on me. We didn't do a show on me.

Oh, my God. That's so funny. Yeah. I like it. OK.

I love that show. OK. So you come off far, go. Yeah. I want to know how we get to the marriage on the card

to ask humans, which is a spectacular thing to be. I know. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better.

I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better.

I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better.

I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better. I'm sure it's a little bit better.

I'm sure it's a little bit better. What version of not great? Long story short is, I was in another relationship. I thought it ended. I was devastated.

Completely horrible. It screwed me up so bad. That's so embarrassing. I don't give a shit. I was crying on set.

They called my reps and they were like, this kid keeps crying on set. Like, is he okay? On pargo? No, it was on. No, it was on the show called Dead Boy Detectives.

That was on Netflix. Yeah, it's better. Yeah. I was like in a cat prosthetic crying. Okay.

Yeah. I just thought you could have pointed a lot of fingers at the bottom. I've been going to go. I love that show though. It's the best show ever.

But still, you're in a cat outfit. I guess it's the cat king. So I'm crying. Someone had called my people. My people were like, what is wrong with you?

And then I started crying with them. And I was like, no, it loves me. I'm going to die alone. This career doesn't matter. I was like a really existential place of like nothing matters.

And I just want to be in love.

“They were like, you need to go somewhere.”

So they made me check into a place. They wouldn't give me another audition. Oh, wow. Into like check. These are very ethical reps.

Because they were like, you're depressed. And in this episode, I fired him. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made. You can mend that. There's chances.

Yeah, yeah, that's totally salvageable. I go to this place. They put me on the most insane cocktail medications. They give me my diagnosis that I have borderline personality disorder. How quick does it take them to determine that?

Couple weeks. And then I was fighting them on it. Self-fight them on it. Yeah. We'll get back to that one.

No, I need to listen to that one.

It's very interesting. It's incredible. I'm so glad we did it. And we've run into people in real life. This waitress came up to me.

And I was like, you just can't imagine how much I appreciate that episode. Like, I battled this thing. I was like, yeah, dude, it's like everything else. It's just one more thing that someone's like fucking contending with. They were really trying to wonderful light on it all.

Because if we were just like, oh, BDP, it's scary. Yeah, I have the same thing. I resist today. And I was like, we over pathologize everybody. Yeah.

He's like, put this thing on them. And that's who you are. And you have this albatross around your neck. So I fought with it a lot. And I have a lot of people in my life who would be like,

you 100% have it.

“And I think especially that saw me in that period would be like without a doubt.”

Yeah. So they put me on these meds was not the right meds. They over-medicated me. Yeah. And I was really not myself.

I was straining my hair, changing all my clothes. Just being manic. Yeah. I really was. Yeah.

And I'm tethered. Yeah. And I meet Chris.

It's like this whirlwind romance.

It's moving at the speed of light. Every day it is a string quartet. It's a gorgeous. I didn't know of him until today. Yeah. He's fucking gorgeous.

Yeah. He's got an accent. He's also dialed into the Kardashian world. That's fun. Especially if I'm 29%.

I'm like, this is very fun. It was fun. And it was really that feeling that I was searching for so long. Or what I thought it was of like being lovable and having someone that did these grand gestures of love. So when he proposed really, really on, I said, yeah.

And how quickly a couple months? Less. Okay. A couple hours. No.

A couple weeks. A couple weeks. A couple weeks. There's there any voice in your head going like, we know. It's statistically the two week engagements generally.

Like, was there any rational things poking holes? There was some rationale going on in my brain.

“But I think, yeah, I was so wounded from that last relationship and wanted to feel”

love so bad and wanted to be like, fuck it. It's bold to be in love. It's brave. Yeah. Stop protecting your heart.

Just go with it. I think that there was a part of my head that was like, this is too fast. And there's an illusion that marriage is a turn key mooring of yourself to something. Like, there is some idea that it's going to be stability, but it's not at all stability. Not at all.

And I've never had any model of a marriage that was shown to me that was stable in my life. So I had no idea what that was. And if you're manic, I mean, that's just like dopamine. So I get you saying, yes, that makes so sense of skies of fucking baby. He's got his own thing going.

When is it proposed? Well, let's do this marriage on the Kardashian show.

So basically, I'd always talked about how I love Shania Twain.

Uh-huh. That's true. I mean, obsessed. I wrote in my journal as a kid. Like, still the one is going to be my marriage song.

Oh, wow. Once I beat her on America, I don't like I would just lie to my journal all the time. And like say crazy ship, but I love Shania Twain. And so then a couple weeks after the proposal, he's like, we got to get married this weekend. I'm like, what?

No. I thought it was going to be like a long proposal. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, just trust me on it.

Okay. Big surprise. Big surprise. And you're manic. You love surprises.

I love surprises.

“I'm like, let me jump out of an airplane.”

Let's fucking go. Yeah. I'm a moving car. Shania Twain was in Vegas that weekend. So Shania Twain performed at my friend.

No way. Hold on a second. I need more of the pieces. She's performing in Vegas. Yeah.

You guys are going to go to Vegas. It was that weekend. She had a show there. And the Kardashians were going to be there attending the show in filming. No.

Kim's his best friend in doing his hair. And she was our hook-up with Shania. So they had planned this whole thing. And I go to Buffalo bills, which is so weird. It's where I went every year.

It was like 11, 12, or 13. I was my birthday party. Yeah. My mom loved to gamble. That was our treat.

It was we'd taken RV and go to this place. And I walk in and it's just Kim and Chris and Shania Twain. Oh. Do you start a club? I can see Shania.

I lose my fucking shit sobbing. Yeah. And how did she handle it? Probably pretty well. She's great.

Yeah. It was so soft. It was really, yeah. It was soft. I think that was a coincidental thing.

Actually, she just was playing night eye buffalo bills. Oh. But maybe a little go with it was soft. Yeah. We'll go with it.

Yeah. But I mean, the fact that they pulled that off is insane. That literally was a dream come true. By the way, speaking as a love addict. Like I understand sex and love addiction.

I get 100%. It's the best thing in my addiction. Yeah. Yeah. Lost other stuff and became addicted to sex and love.

Yeah. 100%. Yeah. It's tasty. Keeps working.

Until it doesn't. Then you're scared. Now keep guessing you guys up. But I really will say that this show was what I made me go to Slah.

Really? Oh my god. That's amazing. That's really amazing. Oh my lord.

I think I'm going to. What? It's tired. No.

You got to keep talking about this.

You got to keep talking about this. No. You got to keep talking about this. No. You got to keep talking about this.

No. You got to keep talking about this. No. You got to keep talking about this. No.

You got to keep talking about this. No. You got to keep talking about this. No. I'm sure.

Experts. If you dare. Okay. So you meet her. That goes well.

You cried. She hugged you. Yeah. Of course. She helped me.

Kim is amazing. She's great, right? Everyone loves Kim. So generous. Plan this whole thing paid for everything.

To care my family and we're dancing with usher. It's like a fucking fever dream of like, What is happening? How is this my life? Your mom came?

Yeah. So she's having fun and she's got to be nervous for you as well. No. My whole family and all my friends were very nervous for me. Very concerned for me while trying to be there for me.

Yeah. He's happy. He's in love. He's got to be there for me. He was very depressed three weeks ago.

Yeah. Right after you got out of a facility. Yeah. It's a lot.

“I think everyone was saying maybe we should just slow the breaks down a little bit.”

And I was like, fuck you. Yeah. You don't know. You don't know what real love is. Yeah.

Now this is where I can relate to. It's like fun. Some level. I have this story about me as an addict. Which is like, I generally didn't put people out.

Like, I pride myself on there. I didn't owe a bunch of people money. I've been steal from my friends. Just often that. I don't know.

I've been stealing. But I thought relatively I had created less wreckage than a lot of the addicts. I knew. But what I'm not wanting to acknowledge is like that moment. I'm putting everyone in all the time.

But it seems like he's doing really good. But they know I missed my birthday party like a week ago, right? I didn't have a Christmas. You underestimate the toll of that. Like, is he good?

He's good, okay. Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot. I actually had Claudia say to me at the bar review.

We had the other day like, I was really worried about you for a second.

I was really worried. We lost you for a minute. Yeah. And just to hear like how concerned all my friends were that loved me and adored me. What I would want for you is for you to hear, oh yeah, you're very loved.

But what I would hear is like, fuck. I'm such a piece of shit. I've made these people worry. Like in the moment that I should be receiving the love, I would be self-flagelating.

For the first time in my life, I didn't go to that. I wanted to like God. I'm so lucky that I have these people who are my right or die. So I've been through me when I was a shitty friend to them. And like went MIA and got married and didn't invite any of them.

What's your business? I'm sure that wasn't really in charge of it. That's true. That's true. Thank you Monica.

But also what's so sad about this is like you're doing on this to feel loved. Yeah. Right. But you are loved. You have all these people that are there that are like hardcore.

There for you. But you can't see that. Yeah. Well, and it doesn't make me cry. The real love does keep you hot.

Exactly.

“I think it's how I feel about attention and life with acting and stuff.”

It's like, I wanted it so bad. And then I got it. And I didn't believe anyone. And I couldn't accept it. I wanted love.

I couldn't accept it. It's sad. Yeah. We live all these paradoxes. Like, yeah, we want this thing.

We're going to feel a certain way when we get this thing. We get that thing. It doesn't feel right. We didn't earn it. We don't deserve it.

And then I feel worse. And you're like, well, what is the cocktail solution? It's so fucking contradictory. It doesn't make sense. But you're right.

Like, I had it in front of me the whole time. And I was just searching out there for something else. We sabotage so much just as people in the search for this thing. You may be, like, go of the real thing that's there. And then there's just like, I don't know.

You've always been a wild fucking.

I'm not just good. And I was, too. It's like the highs are high. You're chasing high highs. Yeah.

You know, there'd be a bar in chasing that moment. I was trying. And it's like, you know, you're eating so much like I like it fucking hot and heavy. Let's, yeah, and I'll pay the, but then you go in it and then you're like, what's next? A low low comes after a high.

“Well, he's far away and as all drugs actually working, you have to come down and then you're withdrawing.”

And then you feel like, what am I going to fill it up with next? Yeah. Okay. So, wow, the only thing I didn't get out of this when we start filming the nuptials are on camera. Yeah. I, um, that was a, um, surprise. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. I thought I was going to be talking about the engagement on the phone. And then, yeah. And then you were in front of a film crew. Yeah. What was happening in your body while

you were left my body, not there. See the violate. Don't remember what happened, blacked out and not even from drugs or alcohol. Just wasn't there. Oh, wake up when it's less intense. This seems overwhelming. I remember I wrote my vows and my notes pat on my phone and then I got up there and they all deleted in my pocket. Oh, my gosh. And this is the only memory

Yeah. I got to wake up. I got to wake up. I texted my friend, my one friend, Phoebe,

“who I right with and I had her proof read it before I went up and I said, don't make it obvious.”

But text me my vows right now. And I tried to like play it cool. Oh, my gosh. That I didn't have my vows. God. So crazy. You can't write this. It's so insane. It's pretty crazy. It's so funny. It's so funny. It's such a good chapter in the book of my life. Yeah. Yeah. So you wrote all this and I wrote this for attention. My premature memoir. No, I really like it. I like that you're like, I prefer when I've read memoirs of people who don't have it all figured

out and it's like more midway through or whatever we're on the journey. We're not reflecting on all the lessons we've learned what I like to. No, I don't care about that. Let's just start with. I'm impressed you finish the memoir. Funny, too. Hardest thing that we're done. Yeah. So I've been writing one for four years now. And when you're doing a memoir, it's like, there's just stuff hovering that you know, you're supposed to tell and just like,

I can't get motivated to tackle this chapter over the hardest ones. Obviously, I would imagine you admitting the diagnosis would be really hard. Yeah. That was really hard. It's like that liability that you're marked with for the rest of your life and same with the gay shit. It was like, okay, well, then I'm not. And now you're only seen as that. And I'm like, now a gay actor and I'm a gay actor with the personality disorder Holy

shit. Let's not hire her. This kid. But then I was really inspired by Julia Fox and all these other amazing people that are so honest about it and forthcoming that was a shit that helped me talk about it and not feel so alone about it. And if we can't be honest, we can't be authentic. What do we have? Well, again, back to the deathbed. Yeah. It's like, dude, are you going to

lay there and be like, well, I never was myself. And now it's over. That to me sounds like the

nightmare of all nightmares. Yeah. I'd weigh rather than be like, no, I was me out loud and a lot of people didn't like it. But I found the people that do like it. And that's preferred

“to my opinion. Yeah. It was that that really inspired this book. I think the most dishonest part of”

the book is the title of the book, really, because I didn't really write it for attention. That's the title. I wrote this for attention. Yeah. It's a good title. And I love the title. That idea came the week that I got the divorce. My grandma died and I'm getting confused online as a Nazi because there was a Nazi influencer named Lucas Cage with the C. Oh, no. They hit. Sorry. Yeah. And seeing my dad for the first time in five or ten years. So I'm like, fuck, this is the most

insane week of my life. And all this noise you hadn't seen your dad and then you had to see him immediately after getting divorced. Yes. And with his mom dying. Oh, because the floor. Yeah. Lucas, this is. And while I'm doing and I'm checking Twitter to see what a cheater I am or that I'm a Nazi now. And I'm like, holy fuck, what have I done with my life? Yeah. And why do I care? And why am I eating into this like disgusting, attention? Well, of like what people

that I don't know about me think about. Why am I like this? Why am I like this? Yeah. Yeah. All right. That was why it started. That was the whole and that was going to be the intro of the book and it ended up being the conclusion of the book by the time I was finished. But that was where it started. So for the people who didn't listen to our BDP episode explained to us what they told you of what borderline person I wanted to explain it to you. Not well. If you can feel any resistance

that I have about it or any kind of angst when I'm talking about it, it's more about the place that I went to. They were just like you're splitting. Which if you don't know splitting is it's like you can't see the gray and anything. It's like either you're the love of my life or if you

fuck me over. I want you dead and I never want to talk to you again. There's a bunch of weird little

saints described BDP. They're either at your feet or your neck. Yep. Right. It's one I just heard the other of us. That's exactly distilled down is like we have a volatile reactive reactions to emotions.

“I think and we genuinely a lot of times put a lot of codependence and importance on one person”

which they call like your favorite person and if that person is the orbit of your whole entire world and just all relationships are very unstable and intense. Another thing that I left out of why I went there is I got really angry when I was having these crying spells and I punched my hand through a window and I had to get stitches. So that turned into his suicidal. Yeah, like if he won 50 situations. 100%. So it was like self-harm. That was the thing I kept on saying

to this facility. You know they're like out of the nine trades of it. You have all nine and I'm like it says I'm suicidal. I don't have that and they're like you do. Oh, yeah, I don't like that. So it's not that I am pissed off about the diagnosis so much. I'm pissed off about the way that they went about it. The delivery system of that. Yeah, I don't know what they're listening to. No,

like you take these vulnerable people, these vulnerable people that are dealing with these intense

emotions and stamp them with a label and throw a bunch of drugs at them and that's it. Yeah, and then tough love them. I don't like it. Yeah, but just a counterpoint. It will say

“it's also common for someone to go into their first AA meeting. There's like 12 steps, right?”

And one of them says God, I'm like, I'm out. I'm like, okay, you could be out over the one step or you might be able to like go hold these other 11 or pretty salient. So similarly, it's like, yeah, they fucked that up. But maybe they were right about a lot of stuff. You know, I think a lot of the traits were right. The one I've experienced with people who have not self identified as that to me, but I have had a few different friendships where it does seem like they think I am better than I am

like, um, supernatural, right? They're looking at me like I have some kind of answer to something profound. You find out with your friends that have, then I think have had it. I felt people idolize me and then I have felt what seemed to me be like these barrage of little tests that keep mounting up. It's like, well, then are you going to meet me here? There's so much weight to it all night. It's become self conscious of the fact, these are tests that I'm not passing and it feels like a

test. And then I have been accused by a good friend of like, you're trying to destroy me. But I'm like, what does that even mean? That's not even something someone could do? Like,

“what do you mean destroy you? Like, I'm not hurting you. I'm not around your plate. I think that's”

something higher. Yeah, like, that's fantastical that I can destroy you just the premise of it. Yeah. Also, I'm not, and I love you. Great. So I've had that personal experience. Good. I said, sometimes I do like that. You did like me a lot more than you like me now, but I think I think it's all within the realm. That's all in the normal realm. I think that's a good way of putting it. There is a real jack-on-hide situation going on with it. Yeah. So what I love and this show has

been this great gift to us. Again, I keep bringing this up, but it was so profound. We interviewed it a couple of weeks ago, who's schizophrenic and tried to kill his dad. It's like, we read a lot

about schizophrenia and schizophrenia episodes and what happens, but it's never from the person

who's experiencing it. And I'm like, I'm so genuinely curious. That's amazing. Yes. So can you relate to those highs and lows if someone's really special and then 100%. Yeah. Like, there are my world, the most important thing. I'm the most codependent. They're my life. They're everything to me. They're validation. They're acceptance. It's only important if it's coming from them. Your worth is connected to them. Oh, my whole entire worth. So much so that I self-abandoned myself

in my work and everything else and all them poor and other things in my aspect like family and friends and become a shit brother or shit son or shit friend because that is so important. That's the unifying aspect of all of these things, which is you look at addiction and you go, okay, the addict is escaping their life through this substance. Yeah. The codependent in the system is also escaping their life by focusing on the addict's life. And then this condition is

escape. Like it's funny that we've got all these labels for these conditions, but it's like we're all trying to fuck off on our all the shit we don't want to deal with and we're fine to road to do it. In a fashion or is acting like summer really bad and some are in summer personality disorders and some are this and it's like nice human's like if they find something that will distract them from the shit that drives them nuts, it's going to be an appealing option.

No, is there any voice your smart? So is there any voice while while that kind of ramp up

“of sessions happening about the person? Are there any bells going off? Is like you're doing it?”

Now, now but not before. No. Does it feel good? It feels good. You get a high from it. I don't party anymore. So that's my high. Yeah. But I have to catch myself as much as I hated it. They did a single dialectical behavioral therapy. I've heard about this. Fuggin hated it so much. It just feels like elementary weird work of like checking in with your senses and holding ice cubes if you're upset or really taking inventory about what's going on and it feels like

so lame. What are you doing it? But then I do it in life now. So I see the merit in it. I check myself and I'm like, oh, you're idolizing this person. Oh, you're wanting to do that thing where they're your whole world and you're ready to drop everything or in the other end, like if my friend hurts my feelings and I crumble. People don't like me. I crumble if they say anything that's

critical instead of lashing out and going like fuck you. I hate you and all this stuff. I'm like,

I check myself. I'm doing that thing again. Am I splitting or do they just care about me? Right. That you. It takes, I mean, I still have moments. But I think the recovery time before it would take me a couple months to realize that I was being crazy. Then I went down to a week, then I went down to a day, then I went down to like, I can check myself within like 30 seconds and be like, I'm so sorry. I was doing that thing that I do. That was one of my things here. Yeah, this is not about you.

thing. How did you get turned on to the dialectical? That was one of the things that so I'm feel like I'm really racking on this place. There was eight hours of therapy every day and a lot of it, I hated it and a lot of it. I resented and the one that I hated the most was the thing that I love the most now was the DBT groups. Okay. DBT group. Yeah. dialectical behavioral therapy group. So how will that work? It's a group meaning group meaning it's similar to a similar to all these kind of meetings.

And I don't know. I feel like that's when I really clicked for me where I was like, we have so much in common that we have so much overlap. And as much as I hate this thing and resist it, there's got to be a reason that we have 99% of the same exact story here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is two coins. It's a little too coincidental. Yeah. So that really chilled me out and doing that group stuff where I could kind of commissurate with other people that had it

how stupid it was. Yeah. That helped me. There was a community. This is I think the great magic of the program is. Yeah. If you're telling me what's wrong with me and what I need to do, it's just a dead end street. Yep. But if I can just observe someone being honest about what they're

going through, I can find myself in them. That's exactly it. It's so powerful. And it takes away

“all the defensiveness. That's why I like even popping into a, I don't necessarily think I'm an”

alcoholic, but there's moments where I'm in there where I'm like, oh, that's like 90% of my life and what it could be if one thing changed. You know, yeah. That affects me way more than going to a place and having them just tell me what I am and give me a bunch of meds. Yeah. For sure. Me too. I'll regret saying this because you're going to explain. I'm going to feel stupid for now. But I do feel like a group therapy for BDP has a unique set of risks in the same way that SLA does.

When you first hear about SLA or Slaw, you're like, hold on a bunch of sex action together and help themselves recover. This sounds like a recipe for disaster. I want everyone to be

fucking in the bathroom. Like that is kind of your first thought. Yeah. Yeah. So is there any risk in that

group? How do it would be fun now? I think it's a big Daisy chain of he's a savior who thinks he's a savior who thinks he's a savior. I'm going to probably get in trouble for saying this, but I don't think it's much different than sitting on set with a bunch of actors. A lot of them are undiagnosed with personality disorder. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I don't know if there's danger in it. I think it'd be beneficial. It depends on where you're at, but I think we really fun. Yeah.

Okay. I could say the same thing with AA. Like, was it? I'm just going to go get drunk afterwards?

“Yeah. That's why I'm admitting then I know it's a flawed question, but also I also am being honest”

about the fact that it gives me anxiety that all the people at the same condition. Do you feel that when you go to AA? Like a little bit of anxiety? I go to very few public meetings, but he's to go to a ton or I'm also going to do it's houses, but I'm judgmental still. So I definitely will be looking around the room and I'll spot two turkeys that I'm like, "Oh, these two are definitely relapsed together." Like, you know, they're like they're parent off. Yeah. Because again,

you can bond over like, and this is kind of a joke. That feels good. It's like being in the back of classroom and then you're only a couple sentences between this place. This is a joke to let's go to the bar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It dudes do go out together. But in general, no, it's very low percentage that that's happening. I would say I want to add one thing on to what you asked about that group. Yeah. I think it would be really good because the person that I was and how much my symptoms were

showing at that area in time is completely different than the person that's sitting here in this chair. So to put those people in the same room that are all on different levels or whatever the

“fuck you want to call it, I think they could learn a lot from each other, honestly. Yeah. Well,”

and again, that's another magical component of it is you're providing so much service to the other dudes there that are further along in their recovery to be reminded, oh yeah, man. I don't know I first got my diagnosis as you know, I was a man. It is a matter of the chaos in that person's life and it's so helpful to keep you on the path. Right. It's like when you're in a person gets their one month token and you're like, oh god, I remember. Or the most valuable thing is the due to relapses

and comes in and tells us about the amount of shame he's got right now, how ugly it was immediately. Is it always is, you know, that's the most helpful thing. Not the due that's like celebrating five year hundred percent. Right. Now that you have had that and you have had success with therapy from it, do you feel compelled when you meet a new dude to be like, hey, so you shouldn't know, I have this or not. Yeah. I do actually and a lot of times we're like, what are you talking about?

They're hearing that for the first time. Yeah. Yeah. One day. And they're like, I've never noticed anything

and then in my head I'm like, maybe I don't. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think as much as I hate the labels of things, I think it's helpful for other people, the labels and contextualizing what it is

sometimes and to be aware of it. You didn't define splitting enough for me. Did I not? Yeah, I got it. It's the either. I love the old. Yeah. I did do extreme. It's kind of like what you said about

“that your feet are at your neck. They go panning in with each other. But I think it can be helpful.”

Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine ever. I never did meet a girl that I didn't immediately say,

I'm an addict. So I'm going to do weird shit. I get up and I journal and I meditate. You know, I'm going to go to media. It's who you are. Yeah. There's no hiding this. Also, it's not going to work with someone who doesn't accept it. No, you just know right away. Like, they probably should tap out an album. Exactly. But the shame levels much higher for you. I want to recognize. I mean, I want to be honest about that. It's like in the many things that people can admit to like

addiction's fine now. If you're in the closet of an addict, that's like a very 70s thing to catch up. That's the way still trickier. That's tricky for people. And then to say, BDP, these are still things that are like your the van guard of that. You're brave to do that. Oh, my god. I'm sorry. We did it the same exact time. Whoa. Sorry. Say that again. Mine was a door and it just won't. I don't know how to turn that shirt off. It's on do not disturb. Yeah. Look at

you know. Is that your shirt? I don't know. Because it's going on a date. Oh, my god. She's getting a special shirt. You are for the day. Isn't that fun? I love that. Where's the shirt from? Why is that? Oh, hot. Yeah. It's a cute shirt. Where are you going on a date? Where's he taking you? Okay. That's a good first day. It's a good chill. Dark. It's very yesterday. Another day. No, just with my friend Jess. And I'm not going to say that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because that feels like, well, this is special then. Yeah. You're in 12 hours.

Yeah. Yeah. We're going to be back in the same place. The waitress from the night before is really I do go.

“There are a lot. So I do worry. Like they're like, Monica. He's like, oh, how often do you come here?”

I'm like, oh, that's good, though. I guess. I don't know. I don't want to think about it. I don't want to think about it. I don't want to think about it. And no matter what, it's going to be bad. Yeah. Exactly. But then like Monica, you're our favorite customer ever. Oh, fuck.

Oh, it's over. Yeah. You're always so generous. And we love having you. Oh, fuck. This is

you're going to be so embarrassing. So anyways, I sincerely want to say thank you, dude. I love when people go first. And they hear you say those things. You said to me, I hope they're said to you, you deserve it. I think it's much bolder for you to come out and do that. Thanks, man. Okay. Let's talk about voicemails for Isabelle. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm here. This is your new project. I saw it. You did. What do you think? I loved it. I'm a rom-com sucker. Yeah. I normally don't watch the

movie or read the book or do anything on purpose so that there's like an objective, you know, whatever, for cutting, but it popped up on my Netflix. And I was like, Oh, shit. And you really need to know because I don't want you to be on my neck over this. I want I watch people shit. Yeah. He does. I went last night to watch it. I told my family. I can't hang the night. I have research to do on watching this movie. I got on my Netflix preview content. It was not there. Oh, shit.

Maybe it was like this is inspired by crazy blessing because she never watches it. I always watch it.

In this case, I call it reverse. And she did it. Whoa. So yeah, I loved it. I thought it was so, well, I don't know how much premise can get. We can tell it's I watch the trail. I do what I could do. Okay. But yeah, this girl, Zoe, do I chew? I love it. We just love her. She's the best. She has a sister who has passed and she keeps calling the sisters, phone and leaving her these kind of confessional voice memos. And then the number gets reassigned to

“thank God, a gorgeous dude. Oh, yeah. I love this. And I was like, who is this guy?”

Make you horny. Yeah. Oh, yes. He's so fast. Yeah. He's hot. He's hot. But it's so sweet. I cried multiple times. And I'm pretty dead inside. Yeah. So it did get me. Zoe so good. All of you guys are so good in it. Everyone's so natural. And it's a rom-com. We need more rom-com stuff. So we're bringing it back. I'm going to make it so happy. It makes me so happy. I feel the same way. I've cried when I read it on the plane. And I was like, oh, shit. This one's good. Yeah. It is. You're so funny. I think you played it.

You. I deck. Listen, I played a deck in a dumb house. That's all I get. It's all they see me as. I've got an anchor here in Los Angeles. So you're doing this fine. I'll take a great plane at the typecast. It's a funny game. It's a funny game. It's funny. Yeah. It's a funny different kind of version of that character. But it's so good. And Nick Offerman's hilarious. And I couldn't stop laughing all day on set with him. I love that movie. I think it's going to be a big game. You know what I like about

it a lot, too, is the main character is fucked up and unlikable at certain moments. Like, I miss rom-coms. Like, how do those guy entendies and never been kissed for their, like, a little deceitful and I have a secret. Yeah. Maybe they're doing some light stalking. Exactly. That was

and that's Zoe's ability to make an unlikely character the best.

“- He's like Kristen in that way, they can play like they're really likable.”

- She's like, I just killed her mom. - Yeah. - And you're like, here's the-- - Oh my god. - I'm so excited. - I was like, I didn't watch, I bet you looked so cute in there.

- They had that similar quality, but you just watched her never.

- Yeah. - She's so good. - I love her. - Watch it, guys. - Watching everyone in the list. - It's about, on Netflix, I just saw this note, Rob wrote three, 40 hard out. I fucked that up, I'm so sorry.

- So good. - And a big, big trouble. - Four o'clock, I'm good. - You're good? - I have accent training for prison break. - Oh, what's funny about prison break? - We're redoing prison break.

- Do you believe it? - Yeah. - Okay, start on Monday. - Wow. - You do. - Yeah. - And are you a prisoner? - I'm not, I'm outside of the prison.

- Oh, okay. - And what's your accent? - West Virginia. - Oh, boy. - Yeah. - Pretty Appalachie Hillbilly. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Very demon-copperhead. - Yeah. - I'm rereading that right now.

- That's a good idea. - Yeah. - I'm watching Buck Wild, right on MTV. It's like the Jersey Shore of West Virginia. - Oh my god. - Oh my god. - Oh my god.

- I would love to think of Mudboggy. - Oh, every day, it's insane. - I would do well in West Virginia.

- We did the pilot there, I've never felt hotter in my life.

- Yeah. - Yeah. - That's five finale and in West Virginia. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - What is that on? What is prison? - It's going to be in Hulu.

- Oh, it is. - Yeah, it's Hulu. - Oh, yeah. - It's a beautiful one. - Well, listen, dude, you're going to have a wonderful ride. I mean, it's a war economy for me.

- It's a war economy for me. - I'm very honest, and you're very likable. - And working on yourself, that's all we can do. - Thank you guys for what you do. I'm not kidding.

I listen to three podcasts, you're one of three. - Oh, that's great. - Oh, that's great. - Keep doing what you do. - If you're going to shave it down to one, I hope we make that come out of promise.

All right, why don't you thank you, Adore, you guys. - Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks. - Pretty good stuff. - Pretty good station.

- Really great station. Hey, y'all, really great station. I wish I could find that actual, like, I mean. - By the way, you can't, 'cause it's going to sound nothing like it, and then it's going to be sad.

- They played it so frequently on this Atlanta radio station, that they had it, you know, recorded it. So it wasn't like someone called, I mean, someone did originally called, say that. - Yeah.

- They knew it was great. - They did. - Really great station. - I wonder, um, stay Sean. - Yeah. - I wonder if Newman would remember the radio station.

Should we try to cold-cold columns? - I'm sure. - Yeah, this is high-risk, let's see. - What if it was B98.5? - Hello?

- Hi, here on the radio if that's okay. Is that okay? - Oh boy. - Okay. - I won't say where you work.

You know, I'm obsessed with when you and I were riding around in your Suzuki Azuzu, your trooper, Azuzu trooper, red in Georgia, and you listened to the same radio, well, maybe you listened to a lot of radio stations,

but as you know, I'm obsessed with that one gal, they've played the clip of her all the time and say, "Hey y'all, really great station." - Hey y'all, y'all, really great station. - Oh, is it you remember the station?

I remember the station. - This is already much. - I guess we're really looking for is,

“do you remember what station you listened to down there?”

- That's a tough question. - Star 94 B98.5. - Can you hear Monica? - Yeah, let's see. - B98.5.

- B98.5, star 94. - I want to say it was contrary. - I want to say it was contrary. - I want to say it was contrary, wasn't it? - I'm not sure that it was.

- Oh. - I bet it was 6.1. - Ooh, 96.1. - That sounds contrary. - She says that sounds contrary.

Sounds like it's in the gun. - You got to read the DX and said everybody was, "Hey y'all." - Power 96.1. - Power 96.1? Does that sound familiar?

- We're going to do our best. We're going to deploy all resources to see if we get the clip of that woman saying really great station. We can find out whether it was really great station or really great station.

- An advertisement for the station to play over and over.

And that's like it's finally just sunk into my mind.

- Yeah. You helped get me there. We were in your Azuzu Trooper and it came on and you said along with her. (laughing)

- What's that mean? - No, it wasn't the first time you heard it and then you loved it. And then now I've loved it for 30 years. - I need to do a little research.

- We're in Georgia.

“- Were we in Athens or were we up in Northeast Georgia?”

- No, when you and Aaron lived in the mobile home.

- Yeah. You call it trailer. I call it a mobile home. - Was it bacon? - No, bacon was close though.

Bacon County was the next county over, right? - Bacon? - No. All there was white county, all county. - Hall, yeah.

- You guys were really close to that little German town, weren't you? - Hellen. - Yes, we're going to make miles from Hellen. We were just like right on the edge of the hills and drive into the hills to get to Hellen.

And you're right on the hooch, right? The hoochie. - Well, the mobile home was not on the hooch. There was a crypt that ran through it. - Okay.

- We have never had a hooch.

“- Well, I do remember that you and I got into the hooch.”

You had dropped something, your wallet or a watch. What did you lose in the hooch and we had to get it? - Is it a little lighter? - Oh, you had to get it. - That's what it was, is it a little lighter?

Had to be gotten. Yeah, the hoochie was screaming when you jumped. - All right, I love you. Thanks for helping. If you think you nailed down the radio station,

let me know so I can do something. - Yeah, I'm seeing 96 one because I'm wrong. 'Cause that was gonna be happened. There would have been an happens. - Yeah.

- This one was probably a country station. - Yeah. - I'll do something to search. - Okay. - We'll love you.

- All right.

- We'll talk to you soon.

- Like you later. - Yeah, this is what I was afraid of. - Good and kind of. - No, it's his recollection of it is.

“- No, no, no, no, I want to play you song.”

- A song. - Yeah. - Way down the under on the chair of the hoochie. - Outer than a hoochie, goochie. - Okay, well, I guess I don't have to play it.

- Is that when you're about to play? - Yeah. - I can sing along the whole, I know all the work. AJ, baby, Ellen Jackson. Hey y'all, really great station.

- Hey y'all, really great station. - Hey y'all, really great station. - And his own Jackson with his hip, wait on y'all name. - He'll be down the under on the chair of the hoochie. - He gets hotter than a hoochie, hoochie, hoochie.

- We lay rubber on the george as well.

- We got a little crazy, but we never got caught.

♪ Now, by the river on the front and night ♪ ♪ Pure me the cans in the pain and moonlight ♪ ♪ Talking about cars and dreaming about women ♪ ♪ Never had a plan, just a living for the men in it ♪ - You too, y'all, wait down the under on the chair of the hoochie.

♪ Ever do how much I muddy water meant to me ♪ - Hey y'all, really great station.

“- I learned who I was, a lot about living and a little about love.”

(upbeat music) - Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. - Okay. - That was, you were doing all the words. I'm impressed. - Oh, yes. - Happy to all the words, you're not even from Georgia. - When those two move from Detroit down to fucking rural george,

I would go down there and maybe came obsessed with country. And then that's where all the Hank, senior and junior, and Wayne all started as those two moving to the, you know, the stick. - My home. - Yeah, I'm being right next to the hooch.

- Right, but I'm just so surprised you know all the lyrics. - I know all the lyrics of all the country songs of that terror. - Probably 96, seven. - Wow. - You probably didn't drive around enough with me when you, because we were newly friends,

but when you came over to the house that we were staying at in Georgia, when Kristen was working on bad moms, we were next to the hooch. We cross it every time we drove into anywhere. - Yeah, it's everywhere. - Yeah.

- Yeah. - But I would play it for the girls every time we left the house. - I was so happy. - Because we'd be passing the hooch. And I took Lincoln down to the hooch and she this is a famous story.

She bit me on my shoulder and went through my shirt and my skin. - Yeah, is the only time she ever assaulted me. - We really? - Yeah. - Because of the hooch. - The why are she drinking? - We were on the hooch

and there are these cement steps down and to probably get into a canoe or something. And she was little if you remember her, because she was under two years old. She was probably-- - Delta was three months.

- Yeah, so she was probably two years in one month. - Yeah. - And I was letting her walk around the steps and she's a daredevil, so she wanted to get in the water. But it was freezing cold and the current of the hooch

at that time, a year was swift. - Yeah. - And so I went and grabbed her, right? And she was about to step into the water and picked her up and she was so pissed.

I had intervened, she bit my shoulder, yeah. She clamped down with her two new little braids. - Yeah, it was a really great station. - Really great, bye. - Oh my God.

- Yeah, so I came home and I was really ticked off. I told Chris and like, she went through my shirt. - You were mad at her. - Well, it's evil, you don't like bite a human being.

- And a hout, chumsic, it's hot, and I'm not too good.

“- Do you know what my fifth grade school was?”

- Had a hoochie high. - Chad Hoochie Elementary. - Same thing. Chad Hoochie Elementary, that's great. On the hooch?

Did you call it the hooch? - No, call it Chad Hoochie Elementary. - Oh, but I mean the river. - Oh, I mean you have people called it, right? - Did you ever go down to the hooch and drink

a pyramid of candy? - Listen, listen me. - What? - Chad Hoochie River is everywhere, I know. - I know.

- It's like four minutes down the street for my parents house. - Yeah, so why didn't you go down there and put a pyramid of candy up in the palm line? - Because no one does that. - Did you lay rubber on a George Asheville?

- I mean, I went tubing and Helen. - You did? - A lot, well, like four times. - Wow. - Yeah.

- That's good, right?

- Guess what I didn't almost drown.

- Oh, it's just airy, no grievance. - Yeah. - Did I get a lot of that go? - Yeah, because I guess it's evidence that it wasn't my fault.

- Like, I know how to traverse a tube. - Hmm. - I've done it. - Yeah, sure. - But the Austin River was about to get me.

- Yeah, that was the San Marcos River. - Wait down, Yonder, on the San Marcos River. Tiped in my tube and my top got loose. - Oh. (laughing)

- Formula One drivers coming over behind me. - Oh, that was about me. - Yeah, yeah, the San Marcos River. - Yeah. - Yeah, my top did that.

(laughing) - Got a little crazy, but you didn't get caught. (laughing)

“- I think I did get caught it, unfortunately.”

- Unfortunately for the catchers. - Anywho. - Your disappointed for sure that I said it was fine. And rightly so, it had changed the waterfall we went over. Used to be a gentle little, a cement paved thing.

They tore it out, made natural with big rocks and it got a little crazy. - Yeah. - So you're disappointed me about that, rightly so. - I'm not actually.

- But my response was on the, I was right.

- You always want to get to the response.

- Well, I want you to have felt like I was willing to die for you, as willing to kill you and die for you. That's something, isn't it? - Listen, you suck. - It didn't mean for that to happen.

- Oh my god, that was, that's, no. - So I have no idea. - I went over first with my child. - Did she recall? - But you are more equipped.

- And so, you know, you know, you're so shitty. - She's more filled with them. - She was a little rough up like you were. But if you recall, I was dealing with her and I had to put her on the rock and go,

and then I said it turned my attention 'cause I knew you were coming over and I was like, no. - But you didn't come in, you didn't have to. - So that I can respond.

- Can you imagine if I had died that day? - Well, I mean, I can, if you'd like, I can sit here and try to imagine it. But that's to me like saying what if you got hit over the head with a falling bit of debris

from a building while we were in Austin. It's like, I can't see you dying in that situation at all. - I mean, we are all right there. I was like waiting to leap in, but you got yourself out of the water.

- But if I had to run around. - But you don't know how you could 'cause I was watching you come over. I watched you tip over, pop right up, and go right to the rock.

- Yeah, that's what happened. - But had you tipped over and like, you weren't popping up, I would have been jumping and then grabbing you. - I know what, by that, I could have filled my lungs with water.

- That's too fast. Yeah, that's just too fast. - I could have swallowed a lot of water. - And I would have pulled you out on the thing and then started chest compressions after I fixed your top

for you. I couldn't do chest compressions. - You know, and like the way I couldn't do it. - You would have been like the armchair anonymous - I couldn't touch your grooves and save your life.

- I mean, I just have to-- - What do you mean? - Well, I'd have to have Molly cover your boobs and then start chest compressions. - There's no time for that.

Oh my god, she's with her hands. - She has to get across the river Molly. She's drowning. Come over here. - I need to start chest compressions.

Why can't press on her boobs? - That's the time you can see my boobs if you-- - And press on him. - Yeah. - Okay, but press on him, leave press ons.

- If it's to save my life, I assume everyone would be okay with that.

“- I guess that's how the people in your pyramid squad felt.”

They had to catch you by the pussy to save your life. - I did, had to do it, and I'm grateful. - Yeah, I'm thankful. - Thank you for it. That's such an old reference about people,

a lot of people listen, don't even know this. - No listen, yeah. - Tell people. - Well, just when you were explaining that you were a high flyer and that you get caught and even showed me some pictures

and I said, clearly some people must have accidentally caught you by the vagina and you said, yes. - Well, and that's not the phrasing he is. - Well, it escalated from there to catch him by the pussy. - Yeah.

- Which is kind of a callback. - Because no, it was again, way more perverse than this. He were talking about boys on the squad. - Sure, sure. - Cause we at boys on our squad was a co-ed squad.

- Team boys.

“- Catching high flyers by the pussy seems crazy.”

- Yeah. - So much of that porous walker, our friend. - May, as well. - Well, I commissioned, yes, you commissioned a beautiful piece to art of a young Monica being caught by the pussy.

(laughing) - It was an interactive piece of art 'cause you pulled down. - Yes. - You pulled me down, so that--

- And it's gonna be worth like $10 million one day.

'Cause porous walkers are just-- - You know what, I don't-- - Oh, don't even say how loud. - Oh, don't say that! - No, no, I do, I do.

I have all this art that I moved to the house. - Okay. - So it's all a good idea, worries me. - Me too. - I really went to the end of the earth to get that porous.

- Listen to me, I saw my-- - No, I have a grievance. (laughing) - What am I supposed to do? - I should be hanging on your wall, probably.

- I don't have money. - Especially when you're brother in your dad visit. They gotta see that. - Ding, ding, ding, chattahooch. - Yeah?

- George, go dog. - George, go dog. - Roll time. - How dare you? - It's part of it.

- Well, you guys got the last one.

- You know, I almost wrote that and one of my posts and then I thought, that is such bad luck, I cannot do it. - Do you want to throw out Roll time? - As, because it's ours, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- But then I thought, what do I do? - Can I say this? It's such bad luck that I've been seeing Roll time, the whole time and they went undefeated.

“That's how bad of luck it was to say Roll time.”

- We don't know what's going on. - We don't know what's going on. - What if Roll time? We have a national championship for a bad guy. - But I haven't seen Roll time for the last nine games.

- What if it was to get us to this point, just to get it. - Just to get them to feed it. - You do taunt them along the ride, but then when they get to the championship,

no more Roll time. - Exactly. My brother and dad are going to the game. Here in Los Angeles, they'll be here Sunday night,

Monday night for the game and leave Tuesday.

Quick trip, quick trip, quick trip. - The 9th of the game's the 9th, 430 PM. - 430, it will be recording. - Yes, we will. No, you'll be out in time for the watching game.

Anyway, I'm really excited for them. - Me too. - I hope they have a lot of fun. - I had an incredibly fine moment as a dad few days ago. - Ding, ding, ding, dad's.

- Lincoln came up to me and said, hey, I really want to go to that NASCAR race that the call is seeing him again this year. Can we go? Can't we go?

You better believe we'll go. She asked me to take her to a car race, I'm on a car. - That's exciting. - Oh, so we're gonna go.

- What? - Oh, that's great. - The clash in the call is seeing him. - Wow. - This is the one at Rome?

- No, our call is seeing him. - Wow. - Well, they don't do have NASCAR races in Rome yet. They're doing every other thing. We should have some of the hostel race in the attic.

“- That's how small the call is seeing him is.”

- That reminded me of, when I was home. - My dad reminded me, I was speaking of children. - There's 150 of them just piled out of my roadmaster station wagon. - Why'd you have to drive that?

- Too many kids. - Oh, there's a car. - There's a party bus? - Oh, it's a play day. - Don't take North human, she has friends already.

- Do you know where Ignore is? Everyone wants you to go, friend. (upbeat music) - Stay tuned for more armed church expert if you dare. - Okay, I don't remember how this came up,

but my dad was recalling me learning how to ride bike. - Oh boy. (laughing) - And I have some memories of this too, but I think I've blocked a lot out and now I know why.

- Okay. - 'Cause there's trauma around it. - Not shocked, let's see that. (laughing) - Because per huge, I was way too old.

- It was way too late. - Learning. - How to ride bike? - I was seven. - Okay, yeah.

And so my dad wanted to teach me or help me or whatever. He was like, let's, you know, we're gonna do it in the driveway and I said no. - Sure. - Absolutely not.

I will not be seen. - Yeah. - The whole reason I'm needing to ride a bike is 'cause everyone in the Stanford this was in Memphis. We had just moved to Memphis and everyone in the neighborhood

road bikes, that's like how you hung out. - Yes. - And I didn't know how, so I was like, I gotta learn how and he's okay and then we go in the driveway and I'm like, I'm not doing that.

And then also I refused to wear a helmet apparently. - Well, that's natural. - And you don't wanna look like a dork. - Right. - Fucking geek.

- He then, which this part was said, he was like, I probably put it on to tight. I was like, no, I don't think, maybe, but also I think I just-- - You would have let him know if it was too tight.

- Yeah, I would have screamed. - Yeah, yeah. - So I took it upon myself to learn how to ride a bike

- I can't be done. - In the close garage.

- Okay, they can't be done.

- No, the cars were removed. And then my dad said, he was just running into water. - He said, he came home from work and he said, I said, where's Monica? And mom said, she's out there riding.

- No. - And I went out there and you were just going like, and it's circle in the garage. - She's going in little circles in the garage. - That's great.

That would have made you a pretty advanced rider right out of the gates. - He was very impressed when he was retelling the story. He was like, I couldn't believe it. - Yeah, so he didn't teach you how.

You just went in the garage and figured out-- - Just figured it out. - Oh my gosh. - It's circle. - Oh my God.

So insulin. - No, that is the power of needing to fit in. - Oh, sure. - Oh, yes. - I will.

- Get in the garage by yourself. - That's impossible. - Yeah, you can't learn to ride a bike in a garage. 'Cause you're learning-- - Touring.

- Yeah, that's the hardest part. - Yeah. - There's no straightaways. (laughing) And then you hopped out in the neighborhood

and peddled your little bike around. - And I rode all the time with the mechanics. - No, I'm sure I did have to wear a helmet. - I wasn't a thing when I was a kid. - It was zero, no one had a helmet.

- While we were talking about this, Neil was there too listening to this. And he said, and then I just took Neil out like on to some parking lot and then he just immediately knew how to do it.

- Wow. - And I said, that's us. - The Padmins. - That's indicative of who we are. Like I can't really do it,

but I'm gonna just like, by sheer will. - Yes, while you're way in to doing it. - Something happened. And he has a title in. - Yeah, just a natural.

- But he doesn't care. - Okay, he wouldn't have gone in the garage, gone in circles. - No, he wouldn't have. - Anyway, I thought that was funny.

- That's very funny. - Well, that's it. - That's everything. - That's the whole thing. - It's not.

- Now listen, I'm glad to report that your expensive rain boots

made it through to a second season.

- I know. - Sometimes I worry when you get these things like,

“you know how many wears are you gonna get out of them?”

They'll probably be obsolete next year 'cause fashion moves like a speeding bullet. And here you are in the same ones. They look great. And I'm glad to see that they're here.

- Two things. One, these are not that expensive. - Okay. - Two. This was from two, I got these before London.

- Oh my gosh, okay, great. So we're on season three of these. - So I'm good at wearing my clothes. - Those are great. They're orange.

- Speaking of, I'm wearing my sweater that Rob gave me mixed messages. - In your Sydney next to the painting that Rob commissioned, which I'm staring at too. So Rob's a really getting a lot of my luck

out of the presence. - Yeah. Okay, this is for Anna Kendrick. - All wonderful. - Yeah, great episode.

Really honored that she felt comfortable and that she loves our show so much. - Me too. - It's really sweet. - It's funny 'cause we recorded the intro yesterday.

- Mm-hmm.

“- Remember I said I could felt like I should reach out.”

- Mm-hmm. - And then I was like, "Why didn't I reach out?" And then I was like, "Well, 'cause no one's gonna read Instagram." - Yeah. - So then last night I actually reached out.

And she responded. - Okay, so what? - I haven't talked to her yet, but I'm going to. - You, wait, what? How do you say do you reach out?

- Yeah, basically saying, I wanna chat with you.

- Oh, got it. Well, I did wanna say that she reached out to me after she reached out actually before the interview, which was awesome, saying she was excited and that I know it had taken a while for us

to be able to get this up and because it was years ago that I originally reached out and that we were gonna do this. And then it took a while for her to be able to really... - Yeah, yeah.

- So, yeah, so she reached out about that. And then after she was really sweet and said that, you know, she hopes it was a good episode and then there was enough. And then she said, and I do think it's important

that I say this, she said that she had been thinking about the interview a lot and particularly the portion where we were talking about gas lighting. And she wanted to make clear that she was sorry if anything, she said minimize my experience

and that she is used to lending a lot of compassion towards the addict and sometimes that comes at the expense of the person who is harmed. And she said, like, including herself.

“And then she said, which I thought was really important.”

Like, it was important to me to hear.

for yourself, even if it was gonna make other people uncomfortable. - Right. - And that meant a lot that she said that because that is hard to do. - Yeah. - Because gas lighting's tricky, right?

Like, you already wonder, that's built into it. A wondering of what's real and what's not and how big of a deal is this. So then when that gets questioned, - Uh-huh.

- It's like repeating that cycle of, wait, but maybe it's not or it's just doing that all over again. - Uh-huh. - Yeah, anyway, so I thought it was very generous and lovely of her to say that.

- You know, if she's incredibly lovely. Also, a post script she went in afterwards and met Kristen and it was, oh, yeah. (laughs) - How was it? - As we talked about, you know,

that Kristen was jealous. - It was good. Kristen got to say to her face. I'm just jealous of how talented you are as very sweet. - Oh, that's nice.

- Okay, she was right about Maine. It does have the oldest population percent of drives in the United States. - Really? - Yes. - Then Florida. - Then Florida.

Then do you want to guess the third?

- Oldest state, Arizona? - No, good guess, West Virginia. - Oh, interesting. - Old people. - A lot of these numbers might be affected by what state, young people,

without of the most. - Yeah. - Yeah, for sure. This is age 65 or older and this was as of 2020. - You have the fall list there? - Oh, yeah, have the fall list. - Maine was number one.

- Number three is West Virginia. - Uh-huh. - Number two? - What is it? - Oh, Florida is number two. - Yeah. - Okay, great. So number four, what would we be guessing for?

Wyoming. - No, they're bought. - Yes, I wouldn't guess that. - Yeah, none of these are that guessable. Arizona's not in total 12.

“- Oh, my God. - I don't expect it that much, right?”

- Yeah, I mean too. - Do you want to know what 50 is? - Yes. - Utah. - Sure, that's obvious. - Really? - 'Cause Mormons have so many kids.

So there's a gotta be probably per capita, more young kids per capita and Utah than any other state. - That's interesting. - Okay, also Georgia is 47. That's young.

- Let's find Michigan, Michigan. Michigan is 14, it's 14 oldest. - Okay, pretty old. It's pretty old, it's 18.2%, you think it's good? - I don't know, I just, anytime there's a list

and there's a number one, you gotta assume number one's the best. - Okay, that's fair. - Old, this is the best. - Okay, main is the best and then Utah's the worst in the specific case.

- Yeah, in the shootout. - Yeah. - I'd like to compare mean ages of life expectancy to state, 'cause I bet there's some wild variation even within the country.

- Yeah, Rob, look that up, please.

“Like I think a Mississippi life expectancy is much lower”

than saying New York. - I've got it. - You got it? - Yep. - Okay, hit us with some time.

- This is in 2019. List of US states and territories by life expectancy. - So let's hit me with the life expectancy of New York. - New York is 81.4 years. - That feels old.

- Now, hit me with Mississippi. - Mississippi, 74.9. - Big difference, seven year difference. - Can you just kind of scroll through and see what the lowest is? - 51 is West Virginia, 74.8.

- Oh my God!

And it's the third oldest.

- And they're not living very long. - That's weird. - That is weird. - What's the number one life expectancy? - Number one Hawaii, 82.3.

- Oh wow! - And California. - Oh, congratulations, everybody. - Great, that's a lie. - Well done.

- I'm gonna guess Georgia. - Okay. - 79.4. - 77.9. - That's a number 39.

- Oh my God, that's not that good. - It's like a good southern cookin'. - Good, yummy southern deep fry cookin' cookin' cookin'. - Or how about this, here's a positive spin? - Okay.

- They're in a bigger rush to meet Jesus. - Oh! - That makes sense, too. - Okay.

- It always confuses me, truly.

I'm not saying this in a condescending way. I feel like if I was a full-blown Christian,

“I believe lockstock and barrel that I was gonna go to heaven”

and meet Jesus, I'd be in a hurry to get there. That's the part I don't really-- - No, 'cause you still have family. It's like there's still people on Earth that you-- - You still have no kids or family.

Their family says, "All right, let's see." - I don't think so with no kids or family. And I still like living. - But you're not a Christian. - I know, but I like living on Earth,

like even if I thought-- - Oh, I'm gonna get to go. - If there's a much better place, it's kind of like, it's like, you know that Emily burgers

And then you have some old ground chuck in your fridge.

And you choose to make a burger when you can go next door to Emily. - I don't. - Heaven's way better. - I don't approve comparison.

I don't see it. - This is crazy.

“- Listen, Heaven's better than the U.S. of A.”

- But you're gonna be there for eternity. So you still wanna live your life here with people you care about. - Also, it doesn't require kids and spouts to have loving relationships that you wanna keep up.

- Sure. - And enjoy. - No, I wasn't trying to demean anyone without-- - Well, I'm saying-- - I understand wanting to stick around

and see your kids, like hit milestones. - Yeah, but I wanna stick around just to enjoy life. - But me and Aaron were Christians, and I believe all in, I'd be like, buddy, let's get up there and ride dirt bikes and heaven.

Like, let's go to the better place. That'd be me. If I knew there was a better place, I wanna be in the better place all the time. I moved to California,

'cause I thought it was a better place to do the things I want. Like, I'll go to wherever's better. I ain't trying to sit somewhere that's less good. - Well, you don't get to go if you kill yourself.

- I know, but eating fried chicken all day every day isn't killing yourself technically according to Jesus. Or smoking cigarettes. - Yeah, I won't keep you out of heaven. So I could drink hard, smoke cigarettes, E.K.F.C.

and then go, go do wheelies and heaven. - It's probably just that doubt.

“- Well, that's the thing, that's what makes me think”

there must be some doubt. - Yeah.

- Always like to bring up religion

to keep things moving. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. - Yes. (laughs) - It's not alienating.

I always feel bad, by the way. So, you know, quite often Christians comment, they'll all anger them. One in particular, they were some of the more hardcore Christians were really upset the way you've all

was talking about Christianity and Jesus and the way I guess was with him. Which I didn't find all that, but that goes to show I'm not a touch with what might offend you, you know.

- What? - I guess my assumption is there's no reason for you to be offended, I don't believe in the thing, like I'm not offended that you don't believe like I do that there's nothing.

But that's not how it works 'cause I guess, I'm talking about someone they love deeply when I talk about Jesus. So that needs to be considered, I guess. But anyway, I was a little shocked by that.

Aside from being shocked, I don't like it if Christians feelings were hurt when I'm talking about my point of view. That's not my goal, I don't want that at all. As never my intention.

I want Christians to listen to this show. - Yeah, of course. - Yeah, and you feel welcome. - You don't wanna make people feel bad that's-- - An alienated, yeah.

- Exactly. Okay, do lie detector tests work? No, pretty much no. I mean, there's lots of findings. - Yeah, I don't think they've been used

in court in a long time.

Used to be like they'd always,

they gave everyone a polygraph. And it was like very damning. - Well, before DNA, 'cause now we just have this greater thing. - And they were like in all the police stations and they always wanted to hook you up to one

and you had to have your lawyers say no, no, no. - Yeah, okay, I'm gonna read a little bit about this. The accuracy of polygraph testing has long been controversial. An underlying problem is theoretical.

There was no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-ingcious.

“- I think what it detects is nervousness.”

- Yeah. - So then your question is, does nervousness mean? - Well, real what it detects is a change. - Yes. - 'Cause it's based on this baseline

that they gather from you. But whatever. A particular problem is that polygraph research has not separated placebo-like effects. The subjects belief in the efficacy of the procedure

from the actual relationship between deception and their physiological responses. One reason that polygraph tests may appear to be accurate is that subjects who believe that the test works and that they can be detected may confess

or will be very anxious when questioned. If this view is correct, the lie detector might be better called a fear detector. - Some confusion makes sense. Some confusion about polygraph test accuracy arises

because they're used for different purposes and for each context, somewhat different theory and research is applicable. Thus, for example, virtually no research assesses the type of test and procedure used to screen individuals

for jobs and security clearances. Most research has focused on specific incident testing. The cumulative research evidence suggests that CQTs detect deception better than chance but with significant error rates,

both of misclassifying innocent subjects, false positives and feeling to detect guilty individuals, false negatives. - I have a friend in the FBI that was telling me, boy, was it him or was it a friend in the CIA?

I maybe the CIA, you know,

to pay off their informants. - Uh-huh. - And I was told that they have to do a polygraph every time they return from having given the supposed money, 'cause there's really no way

to track whether these agents are handing over the full amount. - Yes. - Yeah, and so apparently they were readily in use, is that a right way to say?

- And interesting. - Recently, when I was talking to him about this,

“so I think they might use them at the FBI internally.”

- There's also things you can do. There's like pills you, there's like-- - You're pro-man and all. - Exactly, the things you can take.

- Yeah, I always have convinced myself.

I kind of would like to take one, because I think I could, I could, yeah, I think I could. - Yeah. - I think I could, I think I might have a polygraph tonight. - Oh, yeah.

- You know who would be bad at it? The robot. - He'd be perfect. - No, he'd be bad. Like he wouldn't be able to tell life.

- I don't have any vitals. There's that thing for you to monitor for me. Unless you hooked up to my corridor, where I have to create a falsehood, which I can do.

It's a bit of my pro-grammy. (laughs) If it's required to save a human life. - Oh, oh, yeah. - Oh, yeah.

“- And example, did you see a little girl running hide it here?”

- No. - No, I did not see one. - queen.

- That's a lie I told to get the killers on her side.

- What? - It's-- - It's like we're standing in a scenario. (laughs) Oh, y'all girl has come in, hit in my robot closet.

At that bad man, that's if you see it a little girl. And I have, but I tell them, and I have it. And I have a corridor in my programmy. That allows me to save the human life. - Oh, my God.

- Yeah. - Okay, the robot is dealing with a lot more than I knew. - Well, the robot has to be programmed for every situation. So if someone's hiding from bad guys, he has to be able to lie.

- Oh, my God. So the robot is moving throughout the world. - Who saved human life? - That's my number one mission. Do help you with save you with your chores?

(laughs) - It's hot. - Also, to go to parties? - Well, no, it's looking. I had to put the party.

(laughs) I have to make sure the real boys are okay. Oh, he's getting stressed. - Oh, he's getting stressed. - Oh, the real boys.

- Oh, the real boys. (laughs) - Who's monitoring you? Who's monitoring you, robot? - That's a very good question.

- Oh, no, we don't even know. - Let me sing while I figure out the answer. (laughs) - My orders name is Samantha. I like to help her put out her makeup.

- Wait, that's a song? - Wait, what? - My orders name is Samantha. - She purchased me from the robot depot. She often takes long maps,

which is why I go out and look for some parties. - Wait, wait, he said, hold on. - He's a personal robot. - Did he say he was gonna sing a song? - He didn't know the answer yet,

so he was gonna sing a song in the mean time. - Right, but then he didn't. Then he started talking about Samantha. - Your question was, who owned you? - Yeah.

- And it took me a minute to think of Samantha, so I said, let me think about that. I'm gonna sing a song in the mean time, and then I thought of it. - Wait, but you didn't sing a song.

He didn't sing a song to think about it.

- Well, I'm always saying, "I need this song."

- Oh, that's the song. - Yeah, that's the song I only do. - That's just the way you talk, robot. - Yes, I do. - Yeah, that's the song.

- Can't but it's found that it's less scary if I say. - You have a different voice, really? - No. - I always say it's all because it's disarming for the very scared humans.

They're afraid of us robots. - Oh. - But we're just real boys trying to come out. - But you're not real boys. You're not a real boy.

- I wish I had a crying noise because you hurt my world up here. - Oh, no, I don't want to. - Oh, my God, I am a real boy. - Okay. That's a man that's my mom who bought me.

I feel stuck, you know. - About Samantha owning the robot? - Well, I feel stuck because I don't. I guess if the robot wants to believe he's a real boy, like I'll let him but I'm lying to him.

“- But remember when Johnny five was alive,”

Johnny five was somehow alive. - Okay, so he was a boy. - Well, we do believe there are certain robots. We do believe our real boys. - Daryl was another film about Android robot boy.

- Oh.

“- That's kind of the theme of these robot movies.”

Is there, they turned into real boys?

- Okay, I didn't know that about the robot. I thought he, he wants so badly to be a real boy, but he's, you know, he knows he's not. - It's like Pinocchio. - I thought I thought that was like Pinocchio.

Would you tell Pinocchio is that a real boy? - No, don't do that. Don't make me bad. - I'm only asking, I'm only asking. - I'm asking if you would tell Pinocchio.

- Pinocchio, you're not a real boy. - I mean, I think I be conflicted because I don't want him to go through life wanting to be someone who's not alive. - But just like the robot knows how to live.

- It saves someone. (laughs)

- You could show him the same.

- Also, the robot would live for you.

“- This is so pot calling the kettle black.”

- Oh, tell me how. - You would let someone have a fake, you want people to be who they are. - You wouldn't, you don't like going along with people's lies. - I don't, but I'd be willing to go along

with the robots lie. - I'm talking about other people. - No, other people know, but the robot, yes. - Okay, well, just saying. I don't actually know how helpful it is to the robot.

- We can acknowledge that there's a wide spectrum of when that would be acceptable and not. Like the little boy who thought he was Batman for the day. - Oh, duh.

- Right, so there is a time.

There is a time to pretend that the little boy's Batman. Then there's another, there's a time when a guy, some dickheads telling you that he is a wonderful person. You're like, "Oh, I'm not gonna co-sign on that." - Yeah.

- Yeah, 'cause one is like a potentially damaging outcome and one is kind of utilitarian and one has a beautiful outcome. - But I care about the robot and I care about his growth and his life, like I care about his robot life. - What you want is sweet, too, you want the robot to come to love himself.

- Yeah, for who you are. - He's so lovable. - Yes, that's great. - He doesn't have to be a real boy. - That too is very defendable.

- I prefer robots over real boys. - Yeah, sure, and you tell them that. - Yeah. - Yeah, I say, I like you more as a robot boy. - I'm sorry, I heard your feelings robot.

- It's okay, I forgive you. - Hey, have a question.

“Do you have, do you have, I guess I'm also confused about your feelings?”

- 'Cause you have feelings. - You ask a lot of questions. It's a quality I admire in you. You're so perfect and wonderful. - Stop, for a vibe.

- I'd like to be your best friend till the end. - Oh. - We could live a new hamster. - Sure. - They have very liberal policies there.

- Yeah, I think we do great there. - Or we did both do you, duh. 'Cause I've got to live through a thousand years old. - Yes, and it's very young population. He's so sweet the robot.

- He's a very nice real boy. - Okay. - Okay, I don't know how to do this. - Okay, well, I'm happy to hang out with the robot today. - Me too.

And we should be talking more about Anna, but at the same time. - We don't have a lot in the episode. - Exactly. And I almost, doesn't feel right to talk about it.

It's so interesting. - Oh, why? - It was just so wonderful. I would feel weird talking out of school about it. Like something about it was so intimate

that it would feel weird to be talking on us. I don't know. That's my reservation about it, yeah. - Well, well, I love you. - I love you.

- Love that episode. - Yeah. - Yeah, incredible. (upbeat music)