Tommy Lee

I'm joined by Monica Patman. Hi. Hi. What are you drinking? I'm drinking. I'm drinking a coffee. Okay, but I don't want any more of it, but I it's like a blanket at this point. Yeah, that makes sense. And you know who needs to save the blanket? Tommy Lee. Tommy Lee. Tommy Lee. Tommy Lee is a musician. He is the co-founder and

“drummer of Montley crew. He's, I mean, I think he's the most famous man in the 90s.”

I know. His albums include never a dull moment. Andro, Tommy Lee in the ride, shouted the devil.

Dr. Field Good. His new album is out now. Tommy Lee in rides again. I mean, this guy did it all Monica. He really, he has lived a life. Yeah, please enjoy Tommy Lee. He's a good man. He's a good man. He's a good man. He's a good man. He's a good man. Dex, you were at the fight that we were at. Yeah, yeah, it's Saturday. Yeah, we're going to say hi, but we don't want to be like that, but I saw you. Well, this has happened to me twice in like

24 hours, which is I saw you there. I was like, I don't want to say hi. I'm interviewing him in a minute. And then I saw him at a party on Sunday who were interviewing out Wednesday. I was like, oh, this is so awkward. Normally, I would sit and talk to this to you, but I don't want to like

“find out a bunch of interesting shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But once to talk about”

today, he's there's like a viral clip on around him from that fight of people. He rubbed his nose when the camera was on. Well, exciting. Yeah, well, thank you so much. He should be here. Yeah. He's so wide out. He's so wide out. He's so wide out. He's so big. Oh, my God. The internet's insane. They cut the David's fade, and he also does a little, he's fucking scratching his nose. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. But it looks like the two you were just in the bathroom

bang into that. It's fucking understood. Oh, good thing they didn't cut to you also. And I'm very calm when I go. I'm surprised they didn't show to Alex. Like, yeah, all of the stuff were happening. All of the sober dudes. I'm roping off. Yeah, thanks. The little piece of glass that the flowers came in at the gas station to get my pipe ready at the fight. Do you ever get that dark? Do you ever get the little flowers? The little glass pipe? No. There's all these hacks when you smoke crack in all the

downtown gas stations had all these inexplicable items for sale. Like, who's buying fucking these little roses? Yeah, but it's really just to get this little glass rod that you could use as a pipe. Wow. And then these are little bits of like SOS pad or brilla pad that you just want to pack in there. Like, all this random shit would be at the counter. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, sure. Oh my god. Wow. I get so excited that I was like, oh my god, dude. Fuck. I've been sober for a year. Yeah.

And I celebrate. Yeah. That's the fucking problem. I can never go past a year because I'm so pumped that I

“actually pulled that off. The impossible. Yeah. How long is this celebration last?”

Looks like you're debating whether or not. Like a honest man. Maybe six months. Okay, sure. A little six months celebration. And then then you're demoralized and you hate everything. Yeah. Yeah. You want to kill yourself. Yeah. Okay. I'm done. And you're like, while we're hearing. Yeah. Here we are. Yeah. Have you done ever longer than a year? Yes. I think three years was the longest of done. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't know why I didn't celebrate between those years.

I must have been on some other plane. Yeah. What do you think was going on? You were probably very interested in something or distracted by something. You know, I was probably

really busy. If you're always on tour, you're just going and going and going all the sudden

a couple of years goes by like that. Two and a half years in one tour. All of a sudden, you're like, dude, I did it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you go, I've earned some reward for this. Right. I deserve a reward for my golf. I've been good boys. I know. This is the pathetic thing about what was in recovery. Yes. Yeah. You behave like all humans. You behave and you think you deserve a ticker tape parade. Yeah. I'm cheated on my girlfriend in two years. Yeah. Like everyone, man.

deserve a fucking parade. God is awesome. And when you go out on those after the year, do we do everything? Are there some stuff you just can't ever do again? Like for me, I got burned by the open. It's thing. And I just for me, it's so seared into getting off of them is so horrendous. It's just beyond. Yeah. That to me, it's like, oh, I don't think in any scenario, even fucked up.

Yeah. That's one of them. I don't really fuck with that. I haven't fucked with that in a long time,

with heroin. That's one of those that you go, oh, I could die. And you're watching people around. This is scary. Our dying. Because it feels so fucking good. You're like, this is way too good. I know myself well enough. We shouldn't fuck with this. Yeah. That kind of vibe. If I could fit for a while and there was a point where I was with my base player. And we were just doing a shit with of heroin we ran out. And it's like probably three, four in the morning and we're like,

fuck, dude, what are you going to do? The moment we unscuted the cap on a fifth of Jack and filled up the cap with Jack and then pulled a couple of syringes and we're shooting Jack Daniels. I was

like, it was at that moment when I went, okay. What is happening? We could just drink this, but

we're shooting and this is fucking wrong and somebody's going to die. In Sanity's taking hold, no one's thinking clearly. You jacked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was one I realized. Do you even remember the sensation of shooting booze? Did it do anything differently? Yeah. You could taste it. Oh, wow. Like you taste heroin. Yeah. You taste heroin. Yeah, they're definitely it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, have you ever had a B-12 shot for hell? Yeah, I have. And you taste it.

“Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I went next back then. I went next back then. I went next back then. What is it?”

It tastes like not to trigger anyway, but I am curious. Yeah. How would you describe the taste? Okay. Oh, but medicine. Okay. And so. Yeah. I'm like referring to like wine or something. Yeah, exactly. Hint of chocolate. Yeah, notes of it. Let's start at the beginning. You were born in Greece and Athens. Yeah. Yeah. And your dad was in the U.S. Army. He was a sergeant. Yep. What was he doing there? 1959 to 62 or something. Yeah. He was stationed there. And he's just staff sergeant of the

motor pool. He ran where they fix all the tanks, trucks, anything with motors in it. So he was mechanical. Yeah, full on mechanic. I know he built a monkey enclosure in your backyard at some point. Yeah. Yeah, some car laundry skills, too. We had a monkey grown up. It was fun. But mom was Miss Greek beauty pageant. Yeah. Fantastic, right. Crazy huh. So she am mega babe. Super hot. Tell my father once in a while I go dad. I get it. I get it. I would have married her too.

She's gorgeous. Yeah, beautiful stunning woman. Was she keen to move to California or was that a bummer for her? She falls in love with the student Athens and then he wants to go back to California. Yeah, I don't know if she had a choice. I would just assume she'd be excited to come to America. I don't know. The crazy thing was neither one of them understood each other. They communicated

“through drawings. Oh, really? You know, my dad had a translation dictionary and that's how they”

would communicate with through drawing pictures. We're going to check in in an egg and we need to go and get there must be so hot if he was willing to do this. Right, you're mad at me. I don't know if like I'm going to communicate with you. It is cute. Yeah. Because you don't know what a personality is like because you're not talking to her. Right. So you're just like this girl. So stunning. I'm willing to communicate via pictures. You're going to be a cartoon. Yeah, yeah. So I presume she learned

English. Did he ever learn any Greek? He learned enough to get better at communicating. A piece is father and law occasionally. Yeah. It's funny because dude, I went to this dream analyst dude. Like years ago, we were talking and I was telling him about my dreams. The conversation shifted to me talking about how my mom and my father would communicate right through pictures and stuff. And he goes, that explains all your artwork. Oh, what your body

“goes at that age. That's what you saw as communication. Uh-huh. And he goes, so you”

now are communicating. Yeah. I was out of your skin. Yeah. And I was like, I never thought about

that but it's not cool. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. What do you have for siblings? Because you went to her ballet recital. Yeah, dude. And what did you see there? I joined ballet. Smart moves. Right. Went to some of her practices and stuff. And I was like, man, this is cool. Yeah. Yeah. Way cooler than like playing baseball or football and getting snapped with towels in the locker room. I was like, I'd rather be doing this. Yeah. Hang on

all the girl. Yeah, the shit's game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's what they accused you of right once you had a recital coming from page of the daily paper. And then that day, I went to school and

did you think that was? 16. Oh, that lane is not as late. Oh, wow. High school. What was the

vibe in Covina in the 70s? Is it just like Americana? There were jocks and burnouts. And where were you shuffling into this mix? I'd only go to my favorite two classes and school. I was kind of a loner. I didn't really hang with many people. I'd go to my favorite two classes, which was music and shop would shop and shit like make silk screen t-shirts. Yeah. Like create a shit. I would bail home and I would go play my drums in the garage. So I didn't really hang

“very much at school. Yeah, you're like an introvert. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think that might”

shop people because you've had such an out loud life. Yeah. I'm really nervous just hanging out

with you guys. Oh, god. No, seriously. I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry. I'm being

rude. I like you. I'm honoring you with a wife feeder today. I mean, yeah. Yeah, I know. You're all fucking bluffed out. What is it? You're working out? I work out pretty compulsively, yeah. You're so good. Wow. Did you gotten into the like suffering as a way to have paid addiction? Like I think if I suffer a few times during the day, like I saw no, which is Mr. Raw. And then I work out, which is Mr. Raw. If I do these three miserable things, I feel like I've earned

a good mood the rest of the day. Ah, if you ever tried that, like going the opposite direction, I have tried that. But I think my go to now, just like seven years ago, I've gotten into the world of bonsai. Oh, yes. I know this. Oh, yeah. To me, that's like my that's your good addiction. My

“drug of choice days. Like it's the reverse of the torture. I don't know. This is just I think a kinder”

way of yeah. Yeah. Well, you're caring for something. Yeah. And so you have like an implicit purpose and it's slow and methodical hours can go by and you don't even give a fuck about anything. Like it is the most beautiful release. What do you do? You trim it. You're doing everything from fertilizing to wiring branches where you want them to grow. Oh, wow. That's so cool. I learned this. And you talk about it. It takes like years and years to get them to look the way they do.

And you see that years, bro, it would be silly if I didn't mention there's a lot of like watching paint dry sometimes. You know, you're like, I've been working on this fever fucking four years. Yeah. This is it. Right. You're trying to like feed them so they grow faster. And so it's good for the impatience in the restlessness. It comes on the tree speed. But you're a go at that time. You had 43 bombs. I trees. Yeah. You're care. Yeah. How many of them now is it worse? I'm down to 38 now.

Because you've killed five of them. Yes. Oh, no. You can push them too hard as far as trying to keep them miniature. You can do that. It's like having like a giant athlete. No, you're right. If you do too much work to them at once, let's say it's time to repot something because it's getting root bound. If you do a bunch of hard cuts and a lot of trimming and working, and then repot it, it's too much. Sometimes on on the tree, you'll stress it out. Uh-huh. Because it's build new roots

and new branches. Yeah. Yeah. So you can stress a tree out and kill it and I've done that. And how do you feel do you take that hard? Yeah. Do it. It's, that's a bummer.

“Something like that. You know, yours with. Yeah. I just killed this motherfucker. What are you doing?”

And will you be sad for a while over at? Oh, yeah. I still keep like the branches. The dead wood, either remnants. Yeah. I keep, oh my god. That's sweet. It's like, we skeleton or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It's all like Mike Tyson and his pigeons. Come on, Lee. Tell him he's like, yeah, and possibly sweet activity for some of our pigeons. Just cares for them. He loves pigeons. He's got like the sweetest heart. He has hundreds of pigeons. And as a kid,

he was a loner. Right. And he just had these pigeons. So wow. And someone like stole his pigeon. That was his first fight. Well, he fought back. He's a bully. And then he was like, oh, shit. I'm powerful. Oh, it's fine. What am I doing? What am I doing? Yeah. Lenny. Yeah, but smart version. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. We don't want that cues. No, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I don't know how to use them. I've had anything.

Yes. And you were kind of an introvert. You weren't terribly lucky with gals. Were you in high school? I did okay. Deborah. Is that her name? Brenda. Brenda. Brenda. Yeah. Oh, fine. Yeah. Easy to say. He does his research. Whoa, dude. He does research.

How old were you and you and Brenda made love? Oh, I was 13. 13. Okay. Okay. You never know

And you're like, waiting for him to say the age and you're predicting it's going to be this.

“But it was like 13, I think as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 13 was a big year for you.”

Eight's grade or ninth grade. That would be like junior high school. Yeah. Yeah, I too had sex at 13. You did? I did. She was 15. She doesn't nine-scrater. She had already done sex a couple times. And so I was like, okay, if you already know what she's doing. Apparently, that's really young. Yes, it is. Now that I have a 13-year-old, I think. Oh, yeah. It's uncomfortable for people. When we were kids, it would make you cool.

Like, my friends thought I was a king because of that. Yeah. Yeah. And I hate to admit I'd love that. My buddy thought I was so cool because of that. And now is I'm all they're like, no one likes that.

It wasn't comfortable. Yeah. I just can't really watch it. Yeah. Yeah. My little sister came

walking in. Oh boy. And I'm fucking her best friend, which is her name brand. Yeah. And my sister is just like, top of her lungs. It's just fucking, yeah. And just probably thought you were killing her.

“Blue that yeah. It was such a bad scene. And then she was going to tell my parents and shit.”

Right. It was all about. Tommy, you can't have sex with the neighbor children. Yeah. Both parents had the talk. Oh no. Restriction from each other. Oh, they're not really each other for three weeks or something. That sounds so right. Okay. It was a classic kind of like a movie story. Yeah. Leave it to Beaver. Our bedrooms. We could see each other and be like, at night, be like, oh yeah. Yeah.

That was fucked up. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. I still like you to ride. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the introversion will be attributed to anything or just that was your nature. You wanted to get home. Your dad built you a little sample of box inside the garage for you to fucking thrash around nonstop. Yeah. My dad built a room inside the garage. That was my place. And you were in marching, man, too, right? Yeah. Where you a show off where you fucking flipping the sticks

around stuff? Was there a lot of pageantry to it? I liked that part of it. That's the part where the showy, twirly things that I later had brought along with me into motley. But yeah, that was fun. I'm a drummer. I fucking loved drums. And anytime you organize a bunch of dudes, all of the drum line, man, that's some magic habit. Yeah. Powerful, right? Yeah. It's primitive. There's something tribal that has. So fucking cool right out of high schools, kind of when things blew up

for me with motley, then I quit my senior year. So that's kind of when everything. You had studio 19 and what grade? That was your first man, yes, studio 19 sweet. Oh, sorry. Sweet.

Yeah. No school. He was always shit. What year what grade was that? Yeah, early senior year.

“And this is interesting. I think the lead singer, Motley crew Vince went to your high school, right?”

Yeah. So you knew him, but how close were you? We guys friends, or you just kind of knew him peripherally. It were buds. Yeah. He was always playing back your parties and I'd go check his band out and hang in all the girls at the school. We're in love with him all over him. You always had chicks all the time. Yeah. So he was like that sounds cool too. Yeah. Yeah. We were already tatted by then. No. Okay. That came later. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You know, a little scratch for that.

Or some really good homies that are like tattoo artists, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We all built it. Yeah. So sweet 19. You did play right? You did shows and you played some sunset strip venues back then. Yep. And you met Nikki six doing that? Yeah. He had come to see us play. And that's where I met Nikki was at the Starwood. And did you guys get along instantly? What was the connection there? Instantly because I had known him. I had posters of him. Oh, yeah. His band with London at the

time. There was really cool kind of glam punk band in Hollywood. And I had one of their posters up in my bedroom. So it was cool to meet him. I was like, wow. And he had left his band and he's wanted to start something new. When he came to see you was he coming to see you play. Yes. Were you had in shoulders above your competition at that time at that age? Do you think you were pretty mature as a drummer already? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if this dude's

already been in some successful bands and he's coming to scout you, he watches you and he's like, yeah, I want to be in a band with this dude. Yeah. There could be several things. We've also talked a bunch of people with bands where they go, I just thought this dude looked cool. Like, people might think I can't he came in. He played a great solo. No, we're like, this dude's got a vibe. He's so cool. So Nikki could have saw you in a, like, oh, this guy's here in

Nate Lee is a rock star, which is probably more of the case. Because Nikki is pretty visual playing a boy. Yes. Yeah. And maybe not so much like, oh, he's super badass drummer. Yeah,

and what did mom and dad think of this pursuit? You've dropped out of high school that couldn't have been there dream for you. Yeah. You're hanging out in the sense that's true. They didn't dream teams. Yeah. How are they responding to that? They were hating it when I told them I was

“going to quit school. My senior year, I got, I think I got like three months to go. And I'm like,”

I got a bail. We got a recording contract. You guys already had all that before you were out of high school. Molly crew already had a recording contract. Not a recording contract yet, but we had a

manager and we were, you're about to start with your first album. Yeah. Wow. Okay. This is 1980. Yeah.

Well, this is so exciting. Yeah. Yeah. You know, 17 or something. Yeah. Oh my god. That's too young to become rocks. Well, he's already been having sex for four years. Oh, yeah. He's okay. I think Molly crew came on my radar in junior high like 86, right? Even when I'm researching you, I'm like, dude, yeah, 1980's early for that band. Yeah. It's so 80's the band. But in 1980, it's a pretty forward progressive band because we're coming out of like, yeah, Rocky time and a little confusion

in rock and roll. We don't really know where we're going. Yeah, right? It's a precarious time for rock.

“Yeah. It was a well, we were a time like the knack was huge. Remember my usual. Yeah. Yeah. No,”

that was fucking massive. So how quickly do you guys? Well, first of all, so Nikki kind of

scout you. You guys decide let's form this band. Next comes McMars. Yep. And then you're the one he says, I know Vince. Yeah. It's all the girls back on my high school. We should give him a shot. Yeah. So when you called him was he like, I'm straight. I already have my thing all ironed out. Or was he anxious to join this band? At first he made it seem like he's like, oh, yeah, fucking I broke. I'm like, dude, you got to come down. We got this singer right now. But he sucks.

You got to come audition come, you know, give it a rip. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he didn't show up. Oh, great. Yeah. So he eventually did. And Vince's our guy, man. This is like the lore of a lot of these bands. I don't know. Did you watch the Led Zeppelin

“doc that came out last year? Yeah. Yeah. Were you not shocked with that first recorded performance”

of theirs in black and white? They have been a band for like six weeks. And that play is good as Led Zeppelin ever played insane. I know. It's impossible. I know. You're like, how could these guys have this synergy after six weeks of playing together? Yeah. But you guys kind of hit that same

magic, right? It worked immediately. Immediately from the second Niki and I got together. He had

written a bunch of these songs of the anticipation of starting a new band, right? And he's playing him for me on acoustic guitar and I'm sitting in a situation kind of like this. And I just started playing drums on the table and we vibbed immediately. And it just almost erupted. It was like, this is meant to be we got to find a fucking guitar player. We got to get a singer. That's really where it all started with an acoustic guitar, a bunch of fucking alcohol. Some hands on a table.

We were off. That was it. Yeah. So if we chart you're using, I know you've experimented with acid at 13. Where are we at here, senior year we've dropped off? How often are we using? What are you into at that time? Then drinking mostly and couldn't really afford cocaine. Yeah. So mostly drinking. Was it immediately problematic or was it a slow? No, not at all. You had a nice ride for a while. You did it like a gentleman for me? Oh yeah. How long did that last? Fuck. That lasted till 1989.

We all decided we're going needed to go to rehab or someone was going to die. You can't kind of a nine year trajectory of it getting progressively more dangerous. Like till the wheels fall off dangerous. We were shooting, right? Yeah. We got to stop this. This is fucked up and people are eating handfuls of they were called house yons. They're like sleeping pills. We need handfuls of them and then go out for the night. Right. Everything was upside down. We were zombies and people

weren't waking up. We're like, someone's going to die soon. Yeah. So as a collective, the whole band. The band went to treatment. Monica. Yeah. I know like a different place. We can't do this alone. Guys, we got to do this together or anything can happen. Stay tuned for our share expert. If you dare, you're supported by all state. Checking all state first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your gas gauge before hitting the road. You genuinely thought you could

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insurance provided by all state North American insurance company North Brook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by all state motor club incorporated in all state of failure. Did you watch the recent chili peppers dock that just came out? It's on my listed

wonderful. It's so wonderful. I'm sure it is. I had read flees autobiography which is an incredible

book. It's so good. I'm no historian on the chili peppers, but yeah, it's a beautiful dock in this friendship that they had right flee and Anthony in this hall all. This high school friendship were throw out cast. They all see each other and then addiction is just stronger. It's this like beautiful fun thing and it's fun fun fun and now people are not an off-on stage and people aren't waking up. It catches everyone and it catches everyone at different times and I am wondering

“like, yeah, when you're in a band with four dudes and all of you have your own girl battle going on,”

but it's not the same battle. Nikki was a junkie, right? He just loved heroin. Yeah, that's probably the harder one to manage in the group if someone's smacked out. Yeah. In our you guys expressing concern for one another or you just like, I'm not going to fuck with you so that you don't ask me about what's going on. That's a weird time when you're all wanting to look out for each other, but you're also your addicts. I can't sit here and beat you up over the dumb shit that I'm

doing too. Were there any adults in the room or parents like, hey, we think things are getting a little bit of control here. At this point, way, way beyond parents, like security guards people that work with the management people are like, dude, you guys, it's time to wrap this up. I want to imagine it's tough to when the persona of it is working so much. Yes. And you know that's part of the appeal, this band. It's cool. It's fucking motley crew. We're supposed to be animals.

Yeah. We're delivering. How much are we in on the joke and how much are we not in on the joke? Yeah, for sure. Right. To totally, are we putting on a show for them? Or are we getting played? Are we playing ourselves? Yeah, man. Yeah, you look back at all that stuff. You think about all the times that you were that persona after the show a bunch of people coming back stage and shit. And if you're not that guy ripping out of a bottle of jacked animals and got a party going on

and fucking everything all crazy, they come back to your after party and go, this fucking rules. You're selling the dream of it. You can't keep that up. It's a performance, right? Yeah, I

like it's just never stop. Yeah, you're living. Yeah. I noticed that once you get soaring,

people come back and see you drink in a bottle of water. They're like, what's this? Yeah, yeah, that's scary. You're just hanging on literally. Yeah. You have this heartbreaking, I find it heartbreaking statement where you said, I've been around the world a hundred times and I've seen nothing. Oh, yeah, it's a weird one. Think about it is. Yeah. You've gone around the world that many times and you've seen the hotel and the hotel, an airplane tour bus and that's it. Okay, on to the next. It's

lonely. It's a trip. I wouldn't even know how to correct for it. The gap and what we've experienced in what you've experienced, but even in our tiny experience where we do live shows and there is three or five thousand people. It's so thrilling and exciting. And then you go back to your hotel room

and you're sitting and then you're like, what happened? All these people love me like one second

ago and now I'm completely lonely and I don't know what to do in your room. Yeah, you're experiencing

“like these two enormous highs and lows within 30 minutes of each other. Yeah. Well, that's why you”

just stay high. You just don't get to the low. Yeah, yeah, I've right. It's party time. Yeah, it's very time. And depending on how late that goes, sometimes just into the next day and you know the drill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're like, fuck it. Go. But I think this would shock people. It was like your preference in most of the time. You love stage and it was in about a girl. It was, let's get Coke and let's go back to my room and let's be my myself. Yeah, like the isolation.

So like, yeah, what was the gap between were you having the sense of like, well, I know how this life's supposed to feel because I dreamt of it. And I know how people think it feels. But it's not how it feels where you having those big gaps and like what everyone thought you should be feeling versus what you were feeling during the height of that. Oh, dude, full on band therapist. You'd all

Life, right? Rockstar. Yeah, ultimately. You're the thing at all the little kids want to be.

“Yeah, and interesting. That opens up a whole other thing. Once you start getting into therapy”

with the people that you work with and that are also going through the same thing, you're learning all these other things about them and all of a sudden it's becoming really complicated at the same time. Yeah. Like, what were you learning? You learned a bunch of things about each other that you didn't really know that nobody talked about because Nicky had a pretty rough childhood. Yeah. So you're like, that's coming out. Yeah, you learn about everybody's stuff there. We wouldn't

sit around and talk about personal things. Yeah. You're too busy fucking party. Yeah. You really get to know people. You know, all that gets pulled away a bit. And what would happen like in

her personally in a group like that? Did you always have your bestie in the band or would it ping

pong with their periods or you were closer to this person or closer to that person? Was there like Evan flow and how people paired off? Yeah, it would move around. But I guess Vincent, I would pile up mostly. Mick was quite a full on recluse, like you sit in his room, windows closed with his guitar laying in bed. He would never come out. And he was primarily drinking, right? Drink it and go well. Yeah. Okay. Right. And Nicky, he would stay to himself a lot. But we'd go out of nights,

but Vincent would always, let's go down to the pool until, you know, we would start to drink in and we would usually hit behind him. You guys had the constitution to keep it public, keep it out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now this is a funny personal story. So you guys did you all go to treatment? I will mention all the albums do great, right? There's four before Dr. Field Good. And you

guys are fucked up during all those. They're all great. Shout out to the devil's five million copies,

theater pains, two times platinum. Girls girls, girls, girls is four times platinum. So it's all a huge. But you guys all go to rehab in 89. And then you come out and you do Dr. Field Good. Yeah. And that's by far regarded, critically, it's the most love. It's sold the most album. Yeah. You guys did your best work. I don't know how sober everyone was, full on, full on. And did that shock you? Do you start thinking you needed to be fucked up to do what you guys did? Was it a

shocker that you guys got together and worked that well sober together? Yeah. It actually really was.

“I think between that and between a brilliant idea from our producer at the time was,”

let's get these guys the fuck out of Los Angeles. First of all, I don't want any distractions, these guys are finally clear headed. Yeah. Let's get them away from LA. We go off to Vancouver. And it just rains every day there. And so all's we did was wake up, go to the studio, again, on a coffee. Yeah. Exactly. And then go work, go record and write and do the process. There was no like, oh, it's beautiful out today. It was work. And just focus. I hate calm. It's work.

That's wrong. Between being sober and Bob getting us the fuck out of LA to go, focus on what we were there to do was genius guy. I don't know if we would have done that in LA. Yeah. Right. We would have come up with that kind of work. And at this point, you guys have been together for nine years and you're all young dude. It's almost a miracle you're still together at

“that point. Did you have to do it? I feel good. I've been choice up all the time. Yeah. I mean,”

how did it happen so many times that could have unraveled. Okay. Now, here's a fun personal experience. So when I in 1992, 91, I worked for General Motors. In General Motors got called by MTV movie, and said, we want to do a celebrity race at the Denver Grand Prix. You guys build a bunch of geostorms. Well, I worked at the race shop that built those geostorms. So I went to the Denver Grand Prix in like 91, when I was 16, and you raced in that. Yes. I was just going to say,

no way. You raced in it, Vince raced in it. Yes. One of the Baldwin's and then Sebastian Bach. Oh, my God. And I was 16, right? And I think of you anytime I have an interaction with a dude that's terrible. I think, well, you deserve this from your Tommy Lee interaction. So I was like 16. No, what? This is great. I get to kind of formally make an amends for this. So I'm with my uncle. He's like 10 years older than me. We're kind of milling about in this little tent where you guys

are at and where they're to fucking handle the cars. And I start chatting to you. And this is what I said, I go, yeah, I'm not really into Molly crew, but I'm so in love with your wife, Heather Lockelear. Oh, my God. Dad. Yeah. I know. That's so bad. My uncle loved it, right? And I was like,

There's somebody. Yeah. And now I think every time a dude comes out to me, he's like, I don't really know you, but my wife thinks sure whatever. Yeah. I deserve that. Because when I said Tommy Lee, or someone comes up, I don't care for your ship, but I love your

“wife. Yeah. I deserve that. What do you remember how he reacted?”

Totally cool. He's like, yeah, but he's talking to his 16-year-old. He's like, oh, yeah, you know, he's just

nice. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Oh, yeah. I think you're the first famous

person I ever met because I was, yeah, 16 and from Detroit. Wow. And then there was this crazy moment who working on those cars? Yeah. Yeah. I worked for this company's sports fab who had built those cars. Oh, okay. What a trip. The world is this big, bro. Yeah. I want to apologize for such an obnoxious way to say hi to you. 30, 45, 35 years ago. Yeah. I think I would ever get a chance to say that. Oh, that's awesome. So how long did that period that stretch where everyone went to

treat? How long did that one stretch last for you? And what did you find when you were so related, your life get way better? It got way better. And then once again, maybe this is where it all started. The first time getting so remembered, whole band's doing this thing, the fucking last night of the tour. My boy Vince. Last night of the tour, we played Hawaii. We finished in Hawaii. Just fucking rad. After the show, we go over to the strip club. Uh-huh. Vincent, I had over there.

The girls are walking around with the big fucking round trays with the test tubes and shit loads of shots. Everything you could warn a copia. Yeah. That's the last night of tour. We're done. We just look at each other and we go. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, the girl

“bring all of it. Uh-huh. And we just fucking started. Just pick up right where you left off, right?”

Right where we left off. Just going fucking bananas. Got shitty the next day. I couldn't live with the fucking guilt. Pretty much just let our other two boys down. Yeah. We broke this pack. Yeah, fuck. But I got to say I'm sorry. And so the whole band's in a room as I guys, I fucked up last night. Vincent, I went to the strip club and the drink lady came by and it was all on colorful and the last night of the tour. I lost it. I'm sorry. Yeah. And I'm sitting there.

And I'm waiting for Vincent to go, yeah, I do it. We did it. And the mother fucker doesn't say a word. Oh, just use me. Oh, nice. I'm looking at him like.

Are you gonna, you never said a fucking word? How did they take it the other guys?

They were bomb. Yeah. You're also among anxialing. It has what we do. You're not that shocked, ever.

“Yeah. And to the tour, you're in the right place to the wrong time. The other thing I think about”

that would have been stressful for me. You're much sweeter. I think than you present. It's even the fact that you had to admit that. Yeah. I know how to do. It says a lot about your secret. And I'll see you're the dude who went and wanted to be alone and his garage and play his drums. I was on a show called Punk, right? And when I was on that show, the kind of dudes that would stop me were so aggro. You're pro fucking punk. You know, it was like it was so much. They'd squealed to

a stop at a stop like it was me screaming at me. And I'm like, this isn't my group. Like, I'm not into this kind of attention. Were you a bit in a prison like you represented this thing that was permission to rage and get out all your teenage fucking mail everything. Yeah. You had to interact all the time with a lot of dudes that were fucking aggro. Was that hard to have that fanbase? Not that you weren't grateful for him, but just yeah. When you've rather been approached by the

ballerinas, don't like, so you dance at Kennedy Center and while you're beautiful. Exactly. Yeah.

But you got all the, oh yeah, bro. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. No emotions. No feelings. We're never going to talk

about anything that hurts us. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. I loved those type of people, but yes, it's also kind of like, oh boy. This is it. Yeah. These guys want me to go bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. One thing I got, I think Monica would really love to know about this. I certainly did. You had a little spell where you were a jiggle. Oh, yeah. Do you want to know about this? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Your mail escort for a minute for a minute. Yeah. Nicky and I both were.

You balls were. Is this in the beginning before the band blew up? Very beginning when we had all moved into an apartment together. And then we meet the lady who's the madame. How old is she? She a lot older than you guys? Yeah. She was a few years older than us. And that's where we met. And then started talking. She's like, I got work for you guys. And I do this was at a time where

guy got $20 bucks a week. We saw some big numbers. Yeah. And we're like, okay, fuck it. Let's do it.

How many dates you think you went on? Probably nine or ten. And he said they were often older ladies who just wanted some companionship. Yes. And then sometimes I wanted more. Yes, sometimes. Sometimes they didn't want more. Sometimes they just wanted to hang out. Sometimes go and just sit and have dinner with them. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And that's it. Just dinner. Literally. Just wanted company just to go in with. Yeah. And then sometimes they're like, I'd like you to come over. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That would happen. Were you able to compartmentalize? If you're just going and having these dates and sometimes having sex with them, you just like put that out of your mind. I think if you're

“jiggle, you have to do that, right? You have to like compartmentalize. Lights down low.”

Really? So spring the lights down. Yeah. But you know what? I think I was lucky too because

a couple of like the older women. Yeah. I got they were actually really fun. Yeah. Yeah. They were. Yeah. Wild ass lady. Well, for some, you know, older lady to be hiring. Exactly. That's already is someone to open to some stuff. She's gotta be pretty open. Yeah. And so a couple than I was fortunate enough to have some good time. Yeah. Yeah. I believe that for sure. But the lights down low. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Thank you. How much money did you make?

Oh. I get 500 bucks. Oh. Nice. Okay. 500 bucks. Yeah. I've heard you're 20. In 1980. Yeah. I know. That's like 15. 102 grams. Yeah. Yeah. If you were living in 20 bucks a week. Yeah.

You just 50 acts. 20 bucks a week. You got 500 bucks for a couple of hours. Yeah.

Going to Gil Turner's and stocking up on some of the books. Okay. How many times did the band break up and get back together? I left in 2000. It's been a couple of times. And then in 2016, we had decided, you know, what, let's go out on a high note, you're let it rip and not run this thing into the ground. And then all of a sudden, we're playing like county fairs and not so Brad. Yeah. Rather than burn it out, we're like, let's just cut it into 2016. We

kind of officially. I don't understand the motivation to do this. Like bands do this all time and it's like, why even declare who knows? Maybe he'll fucking want to do it again at four years and maybe you won't. I know. We didn't want to be one of those. We just, we were like, we don't deserve to kind of fucking fade out. Let's take this fucking thing out at the top and then bail. The last thing we wanted to ever do was be another one of those bands at like,

oh, they got back together. Right. Yeah. Were you united and throw another? They're playing at a tractor pole. Yeah. We were just like, no, let's make official and we signed this whole thing.

“You're never allowed to perform as the band outside of the band. Yes. Yeah. That's cool. I think that's”

right. Yeah. But I think you guys might have missed a sest. Your future. Yeah. There's no reason you're not metallic. Yeah. Right. There's no reason you're going to dwindle into the county fair. Yeah. I don't know that it was some weird fear I we had. And then I think we all in general did want to go out on a high note. Like honor the band anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to overstay your welcome a little bit. Yes. Thank you. I get it. It's like ending a show after four

seasons. You could keep doing it. But it's like, no, it's done now. It's good to be done here where it's still good. I mean, I agree with them. But they're also like, I'm going to see Metallica and October at the sphere. I can't fucking wait. You know, we're only so much still play. Yeah. It is funny of examples. Yeah. Okay. So you and Theo talked about this and I want you to talk about how you can get kind of lost in a purgatory if you're a musician or anyone that does

live performances. Theo related, but of course you made a great point. It's like, I'm like a stand-up stand-up. You go do stand-up on the weekends and maybe you do one show in the week. But you're coming home nonstop. Yeah. And you're like, when you go on tour, you leave your house and you're

“not back for two years. Yeah. That's a wild experience, I think, mentally. Yeah. And then you”

guys were both relating to this feeling of like being on the road and desperately wanting to be home and then once you're home for five minutes. The grass does rain or right. Yes. How do you come to peace with that weird tension? And does it like come just fuck you up permanently? I still wrestle with that one. If you're home too long, you're like, fuck, I got to get out there and rock shit. And then if you're out there too long, you're like, I would fucking shoot my mom right in

the back to sleep in my little bed. Yeah. And is there no option to design these in a possible balance?

We're doing that now. That's how you're touring now. Yeah. This summer we're going out for

“I think three months. And that's it. Okay. You started July. How much did you bring your”

boys on the road? I'd bring them out any chance I could because you miss a lot of shit. Holder, they now. My oldest son is going to be 30 in a couple days. Yeah. And my youngest is a year younger. They're all grown up. Yeah. And did you have anxiety watching them grow up? Like,

oh, when is the addiction thing going to catch them? No, that's crazy because I never thought

that my one son is sober. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. He ran it like crazy. I don't know. Do you think that stuff is a hereditary? Yeah. The same we love is like genetics loads the gun and trauma pulls the trigger. Uh, I believe that. Okay. I also believe you could just be exposed to it and pick it up. Yeah. I'm not sure what. Yeah. Like, do you think of your childhood as being traumatic? No, not at all. And is addiction in your family at all? No. It's not. Yeah. Okay. So you kind of,

yeah, you just can't do it naturally. I hope it's not my fucking fault. So no, I never really thought about that too much until it happened and then I went, oh, oh, fuck. What is this? There's so many moments in our pop culture that are defined by you at different moments. You're just like, you took

“over pop culture. What do you think you lost in what did you gain by this really heightened experience?”

Privacy? Mm-hmm. Lost? We interviewed Pamela a couple years ago and yeah, her explaining like the tension living in Malibu with the photographers and everything that happened was just being documented sounds. She spoke quite highly of you. Yeah. Yeah. She's like the connection you guys will

always have. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. We loved talking. Yeah. Yeah. She's great. But it did not sound fun.

No, dude. It was not. Not cool. It was a weird time. It's hard enough to be wrestling with you and I have wrestled anonymously. That's already would be hard enough. But then also you add in this other element of the public. Do you think on any level you sought out the attention? No. You don't think so. No, I don't know. You had enough. Yeah. It found you. Yeah. Yeah. I call it a shit magnet. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't want the dirt, the autobiography of the band put out

came out. Yeah. That was huge. They made a movie out of it. I love hearing this. You love the movie. Love it. That makes me so happy. Yeah. It's rare. We've all seen some pretty shitty rock, kind of docked movies. Yeah. Especially when your brand is cool. Right. The pitting is hard. Vermont only created participate in a show and it's soft. That can be rough. You wrote your own biography in 05 Tommy Leon. What was it you were wanting to be known about you

that wasn't known from the dirt. Just more personal rather than not about the band more what was going on in my life than there was a lot to talk about and a lot to not get my side of anything out. Just the truth. Right. Your experience through all of it. Right. Yes. Did you watch the man on the run documentary? The Paul McCartney. Yes. Amazing. Amazing. I just watched Jesus dude. I'm wondering

if you had this feeling like I never took a minute to imagine what it's like to leave the Beatles at

27. I just like oh yeah the dudes in the Beatles he was happy. He was like no he was 27. He had his whole life ahead of him. He still wants to be a musician. Yeah. And he lives under this fucking shadow. He's the one guy who can say like I'm not very going to top this thing. He can probably say that definitively. And yet he found a way to do it which is insane. It's impossible in so much failure along the way. Right. Like the first two albums don't like his band fucking quits when he wants to record in Nigeria.

Yeah. Then he writes that album that becomes as big as a Beatles album. Yes. It's almost impossible. Right. That he was able to do it again. Yeah. That is insane. Yeah. Were you relating when you were watching that? Yeah. We're like yes dude. Same. Leave Wontley crew. The age is what freaked me out

“because I didn't realize that's what freaked you out because I know what I was doing in 27.”

I wasn't coming off the Beatles. Right. Yes. So tell me when you started doing solo work or when you did method of mayhem or any of these projects you've done post Mottley crew. Yeah. How much of that do you feel the weight of that? Like oh God. Everything will be measured against Mottley crew. Yeah. There is that. But you know what? I don't really focus on that. What I enjoy the most

That is the fun part. And that's my main focus and objective is for that kind of work outside of

“Mottley is I can do whatever I want to do. This is such an exploration. You know what I mean?”

Like, dude, anything goes. I don't have somebody going like, oh, it doesn't sound like Mottley. This is where I really get this wield my creativity. Yeah. You got into DJing for a while.

You're kind of like into electronic stuff. You're into really everything. I've always been that

way man. Super eclectic into everything. Everything but country music. That's my only thing that I dislike. I don't know why, but I can't when I think of country music. I just cannot stop. The song comes into my mind and I don't know why, but maybe that's part of the reason I fucking don't really like it. I don't know. They're loud on fire. Check up me up some bacon and some bacon. So my socks and wash my old blue jeans. You said good thing. Yeah. That's nice. That's not the song that's

“going to get you into country for sure. And my buddies have tried. You need to go to stage coach.”

It's nothing but chicks. I don't know. I'm not good. I'm not full face over. Yeah. We're post chick fays of our life. I mean, I got to bring this up just because I almost fought them too. You got in this fight with Kid Rock. Did you guys punch each other? No, that's the fucking craziest thing. Is nobody got at each other. Okay. There was people on us so quick pulling us apart, but there's a couple swings in a miss. And then we were okay. So it's not even a fight. No,

not at all. Like people like, oh yeah, I fucking punched Tommy Lee. Doody never touch me.

Like it never happened. Yeah. I don't know what at it you saw. Yeah. What was the impetus of that? I don't even know. Do you know what? I got up to go to the bathroom. I come back from the bathroom and he's sitting in my seat. Oh, you know what? I get they do that. They see the dealership. Yeah. They go to commercial or he just saw that I left and went, if I'm going to go sit in the seat and start shit. I don't know what the objective was,

but I came back and he said, my seat and I'm like, bro, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, fuck you. Oh, yeah. But it's fake on. It seemed intentional. Yeah. I don't think it just was film and a seat. Yeah. Okay. So explain Tommy rides again. You already have that album. And now how do you reattackle the same album? We're talking about re-releasing it for its 20th year anniversary. Yeah. And I just built a Dolby Atmos recording studio

in my home. And once I kind of you went down that rabbit hole, I was just like, oh my god,

this is the most insane thing I've ever heard in my entire life. And I can never listen to

stereo ever again after this. Because Atmos has sound coming from what the ceiling above, above, behind sides rear your literally in the mix. You're like, are you fucking kidding me? Anyway, I'm obsessed. Yeah. And talking about re-releasing for the 20th anniversary, Tommy Land the Ride. And there's no Dolby Atmos mix of it. So I was like, I want to remix it and sort of

“reimagine it if we're going to do it. Why not? That's what we ended up doing. Are you”

technically quite savvy like on the board and stuff like you are? Oh, yeah, you geek out on that. Totally. When you're making music now, though, does it start with drums? Not always. Sometimes it'll be a guitar riff, a drum beat. It's usually there's some sort of melody in my head and all start banging around on a keyboard just to get the melody out. It's funny because in the Tommy Land rides again, the new version that just came out, there's a new song called stupid world

that I put on this record. I had written that in like, it was COVID 2020. Yeah, I'd written that around then. So going back and finding that, I was like, it is so fucking appropriate right now because the world to me, we're in a really fucking stupid place. It's just really stupid everywhere. I wrote this around COVID also a stupid time. Yeah, you also a stupid time. Yeah, I really bizarre. Yeah, really felt like the world might pass. And I didn't think much of it. We write things all the

time and put them away and you're onto something else. And anyway, so in the new studio, I was opening up some older songs and files that I've been working on for the last few years.

old work is really fucking cool. Yeah. Yeah. Stay tuned for more armchair experts. If you dare. Over there, been instruments that you've fallen in love with after doing solo stuff and wanting

“to create your own stuff, have you picked up other instruments that you didn't play in the 80s?”

No. I've always played keyboards, sing. I would sing on a lot of motley demos because we

couldn't get Vince to come over and sing keyboards, bass guitar, drums, obviously. I kind of play enough of everything. So when you're on tour this year, will you be behind the drum, kit, under arms, the whole time. Yeah, and play piano. Really quick. The physicality. What do you do? 63 now? Yeah. And you've treated your body like abs. Yeah. It's like shocking here as healthy and robust as you are. But drums, man, is a fucking hard instrument to play. Dude, it's insane.

When you see these like gene group are these old dudes who still were fucking slain at like 70,

like, how do they have even? It's still, yeah. You know, it's crazy, man. It's so physical.

Is it what's kept you in shape? 100%. By the time I get done after two hours show, I'm fucking toast. Just physically. And then you're ears. You're this laying in bed here. She's really high pitched. You know, a little squealing. Okay. We're done, right? Stop. You don't realize it. Man, I sweat like a mother fucker. I don't really like gain any size like muscle. And I weigh the same. I've weighed in high school. Like what is the fucking meal? Yeah,

having what genetics do you have? I clicked one of those pedometers on my shoe. I clicked it on before the show. Take it on after the show and it said 13.3 miles. Oh, my God. I just did 13 miles sitting down. Yeah, from the kickoff. Yeah, it was all that. And I was like, okay, that explains a lot. Yeah, you're pretty much doing more than you have. Yeah, oh my God. Do you have any repetitive injury stuff like you've risked or shoulder? You've held up pretty fucking good. I'm pretty good,

man. I had one hand surgery because I had a it's called duppy trends. I can never fucking pronounce it.

Duppy tins contracture. Okay. And it's where the nerves in your hand that you have run in through here. Over time, they start to pull. This finger was stuck within this position and both of these.

“So they had to go in and cut that and get rid of it. That's the only thing that's really”

physically. And that's a scary one. It's my hands. Yeah, exactly. Do you ever wonder what you would look like had you not done anything? Because I'm inclined to think genetically you might be at a freak. Like you might have looked 38 years old right now. Oh, if you're not done dry. Hey, I've done anything. Maybe. Because you look great. Oh, thanks. But yeah, I can't only imagine what you would look like if you had taken Anglebird Humberdink route. Fuck. I'm like, oh, look at all 18.

Just fucking 63. Okay, guys. That's my last question. Do you still have dreams? I'm wrestling. I'm behind you 10 years, but I still wonder how much fuel I have in the tank to be productive and engaged. I just might want to bonds. I treat the rest of my life. Well, kind of like goals and motivations you have. And you feel like as you're getting older, it's harder to give a shit about that. That's enough. I'm not sure what that is, but not that I haven't set goals in the future.

“I think that I have stopped projecting for me, at least it gives me anxiety, thinking about”

things that haven't happened or could happen or this. I feel like these days, I'm living really for the fucking moment we're right here right now. Like Bill, that's a big change. I said, you still do a lot of that to look and forward. And I think right now these days for me, I'm really comfortable with just looking right here. Do you think it helps that you've had all the dream outcomes? In the dream outcomes didn't really feel as good as anticipated. So you're like, oh, maybe it's

actually not about the outcome. It's just about like how much I enjoy it in root to the outcome. That's a pretty deep one, dude. Because I remember a little kid jumping up and down on my fucking bed, playing an air guitar and playing cardboard boxes and going like, I'm going to be that got like a fucking do this knowing that. You know, so it's weird. Like sometimes you do have those projections and other times you just so pump just to fucking be here. Are you proud of yourself

my poor fucking parents that all's like and say, a drummer constantly making fucking noise.

“And then when he finally leaves the house, you're like, oh my god, is he gonna live through this?”

Right. Exactly. If your mom won't film, why are you doing so much? Yeah. He's all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I do have a question. Has there been jealousy in the band? Was there jealousy amongst the members? Like, did anything get crazy? No. Really? I don't think so. That's surprising. But he's in a tricky position to evaluate that because as the drummer weirdly he invents were so famous that everyone had a lot of fame. I feel like maybe they'd be jealous of you

because you're kind of the same. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I think you're the lasting name that's come out of that band. The other generations know. Yeah, right. Maybe that's a question for them. I guess I want to end on this. It's just a compliment. You have navigated so much messy business. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You're from a different era. He's back like when you were in a rock band, you slept with someone in every city. No one had phones. No one tweeted about it. No one didn't

“anything about it. No phones being no bitchers. He made it through that whole phase. But what I think”

is super telling is like, I've met a couple folks that you've shared years with and those folks like you a lot still. That's cool. I think your sweetness has really carried you through how a very tumultuous and what could have been many times things for playing in moments. You got to

get out of here forever now. And then never really came your way and I think it's a testament to

your kind of sweetness. A sweet. Yeah. No. You're just fucking likable, right? Yeah. You're very likable. Oh, yeah. But when you were upstairs, your wife did say that you posted your dick on Twitter. Yeah, how did that happen? Yeah. We want to know how that happened. Just drunk. Uh, I'm sorry, people have missed it. Yeah. Yeah. Because I do recall earlier. I said, do you think you sometimes you draw the attention and then, you know, I am circling back to maybe there's a

kernel of that. Yeah. We might not be able to help them. I mean, it's like your rock star. It's who you are. It's your identity. Convexpected. Maybe I don't know. I've had all the addictions, but sex and love addiction for sure, 10 out of 10 for me. And really, once I got into therapy like six years ago, really understanding, no, the first drug was a safe, great girl like to me who

was most popular girl in the school. And I've never been higher in my life than her asking me

“out, just that was fucking unbelievable. Do you feel like you've had that addiction?”

Oh, is that the first drug? Girls approved? Yeah. There was a girl in my school in high school. The hottest chick in the whole school, stunning, beautiful. I would just be like, I wonder if that's even possible. Yeah. No, I can't ask. I can't. And then when that happens, yeah, it takes over your whole life, right? Like when that girl likes you, you're just fucking walking around like you are the king of everything. The next thing you know, you're in your van

on acid fucking the girl who you thought you could never ever be with. And you're like,

what just happened? Yeah, yeah, you loaded. Yeah. And then you're just chasing that for the rest of your life. That could kind of sell the world. The pace. Yeah. Fuck. Which one do you think was harder to let go of? Drinking in drugs or female approval and attention? Drinking in drugs? Harder. Way harder. Way harder. Harder. Harder. Harder. Well, Tommy, this has been a blast. I want everyone to check out Tommy Landrides again. Remaster with a new song. That's out right now. You're

listening to everywhere. And then go see Tommy fucking play. Rock shit. Come to the two of word of people go to get tickets for the two of motleycrew.com. Okay. Good place. Everything's there. Dates tickets. So listen and timely and rides again. Go see them play the summer. It'll be memorable. You won't regret it. This has been a blast. I'm going to have to apologize for my behavior at 16 or 15. Thanks for having me. Yeah, long time coming. Totally well. Oh my god. Just a quick reminder that as part of our

summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks. Judd Brewer. Judd Brewer. Can you even think of another judge? Appetal. Yep. I'm glad we had a neurologist on. Yeah, we're a scientist.

I didn't get to ask him all the questions I wanted about your ailment. Yeah. Maybe that would not be productive for us, but I had questions. We should get an arthritis doctor on here so I can really pervout. So you're allowed, but I'm not. No, you are. I'm just saying I'm surprised

we haven't gotten arthritis doctor that I can basically just make treat me real time in the interview.

I know. Okay. So Judd. He talks about the two-body problem, which is a dilemma for life partners in academia relating to the difficulty of both spouses obtaining jobs at the same university or within a reasonable commuting distance from each other. That would be very hard. It's like acting, I guess. And I really like the idea of professors being married for some reason. I don't know why. I don't care if machines are married to one another. The doctors. I guess I want doctors to be married to.

Really? Because I imagine their work is so esoteric. It would take another doctor to really geek out on what they're interested in. Oh, interesting. I like the idea of a doctor with somebody who doesn't know anything about medicine so they can help. Benefit? Yeah, exactly. You only need one doctor in the pair. Well, that's John and Joya. John Favreau. He's a genius because he went out and got himself Joya who is a emergency room doctor and I would watch

them raise kids and I thought anything going to happen. They could let anything happen because Joya is here.

“I know. Do you just fix everyone right up? That's what I want. I always felt so safe knowing”

she's around. I'm going to cardiac arrest, you'll handle it. Anything. Yeah. It's about the best person to have around. We were just talking about that the other day. My friend Laura. Yeah. And I because you know, we're in this group of all of our friends and we're single. Although now she has a quarantine boyfriend. Yeah. Don't put her on blast. She might still have some looers in the

water. You're making her face book. What's the term official? No, they're their first book official.

She posted something the other day about him. Oh, yeah. Oh, oh, oh, great. Right. But any who generally were the single ones. We were saying who should we date who's going to add something new to the group and what are the categories? I'm really glad you guys are thinking that way. Yeah. We had to. Yeah. We're trying to be. I think you need an ER doctor. That way I can like fuck around on these vacations and I'm worried about it. Well, I've been saying that. I like a doctor

in the group for sure, especially people are doing backclubs and stuff off the house and the pool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We need a doctor there. And with somebody said, this was on a girl's Marco Polo. Marco Polo. If you're listening, I'd love some free. I think it's trying to make me pay now. It's not letting me do two times and it's a problem. Well, so that by the way, what a great way to monetize that because you got to go two times. Once you're used to going two times, going back is

by the way, we need double speed. Yeah. So so if you use Marco Polo, it's a fantastic app. It really is phenomenal. But you'll become immediately aware of how fucking slow everyone gets their thoughts out. It's maddening. Yes. They need a quadruple speed beyond. I think they do have a triple in this

“payment package. I worth it. It's probably as I should just buy it. You should buy free. Well,”

your birthday is around the corner. We buy a year worth of fast-forwarding through all your friends. Oh, how sweet. That would be happy to buy that for you. Oh, should I buy that for a Christian for her? I think it's like up coming seven dollars. I don't think you need to buy that for a person. No, but it would be just be thoughtful. I'm so fucked. This birthday is not gonna work. I thought about this idea. What do you think about this idea?

I mean, we shouldn't be doing it on here. She got it. I'll cut it. Maybe the viewers will

text us ideas. Okay. Go on. They're listeners. Not viewers. So here's what I thought the other

day. What would you think about this? I'll book like five bedrooms at a hotel and I'll get a baby sitter. Get on the same floor of like a nice hotel here in the city. Maybe the peninsula or something. I'll be like the Richardson's, the Hanson's you. And we'll just all wear like bathrooms and we'll get room service and we'll lay in bed and maybe we'll go on on the pool maybe we won't. Yeah, that sounds lovely. Because then then what she would want just to be a lay in bed for seven hours and read her

net and do all that shit. And then she could check in and out with you guys if she wanted to be

“social she could if she didn't. Right. I think that's good. Yeah. I think she wants some just peace.”

Yeah. Yeah. So that sounds wonderful. I like that idea. Okay. I'm gonna pursue it a little further. Okay. All right. And I have an idea. I'm scared to say it. Okay. But I'll say it. Maybe because maybe some, you're right. Maybe someone could help. Yeah. Again, she's not going to hear this. What if someone like DMs or something and is, well, don't be able to come up this. If you're out there, don't be a fucking dick. Well, I guess you don't read her DMs. So I guess I'm not worried about that. It's just if you

know her if we're all friends, don't fuck this up. Yeah. So that when she was in Paris over a year, about a year ago. And there was this chandelier that she wanted very badly. It was really on the fence

like her. And she did not end up getting it. And since we've had so many conversations,

“she regrets it. And it was at a, it's a vintage chandelier. It's gonna be a pawn shop. It's going to be hard”

to track down, but I'm going to do it. Oh, you're saving the day. And we're going to get it. I, I really hope it's still available. That's my, I'm worried about. If you bought it, if you don't listen to our new body, can you give it to us? Because it's her birthday. This is the exact kind of challenge for you, though. I love it. Yeah, this is your sweet spot. I really want to track something down, slew thing. Come chewing Veronica Marsing. Veronica Marsing. Yeah. It would be only be appropriate

that Ron Mars would get something that had to be Ron Marsed for her birthday. I really hope it works out.

It doesn't work out. She'll divorce us. I guarantee I'm going to hate it. Because if

you're not going to like the look of it. Yeah, I already know that. I already know that she made the right decision and didn't buy it. No way. I just know. I can tell. She buys things if no. No. She,

“she wants it. She has said it so many times. Where is it going? I think it should go in your bathroom.”

And I won't like it. I just won't look up. It's beautiful. All right. I won't look up. You've seen it and you like it? I can't remember if I like it. She likes it. That's better. Okay. He said that his dad was a deadbeat. Okay. And then I kind of got interested in where that phrase came from. Oh. Yeah. Ooh. I didn't really find it. Oh, shit. Okay. Because I wanted to guess. Oh, yeah. Let's guess. I think it's a newspaper term. I think it's people who got assigned beats. You know, they call that

journalism like the science beat, you know, the financial beat. I think it's a beat that doesn't generate any stories that you've been given this completely deadbeat. Oh. And then that just ended up because newspaper writers affect our cloak wheels that it just emanated from there. As if

“it emanated from sports. You know, so many of our saints are like their sports related. Don't”

strike out. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm guessing it's coming from from the newspaper world. Interesting. But how does it equate to a deadbeat parent? Well, just people probably were using it. Well, that's a deadbeat. That's a deadbeat. You know, it's something useless. Oh. And then it just got transferred to deadbeat parent, deadbeat thing. That or the only other thing I can think of that has beats. Well, there's two walk I had two more. There's beats and cop patrols. You have different

beats. You could have a deadbeat. Like there's nothing going on. So similar. Similar. Yeah. And then I guess you could say musically like that's a deadbeat. It doesn't add anything the song. I'm going with the newspaper. I like the newspaper. Guess when I hear deadbeat, just the sound of it, I hear like physical abuse. Oh, no. Deadbeat dad doesn't mean that. No, I know that. Yeah. Yeah. I know it doesn't mean that at all. Is your absent? Exactly. Yeah. But when I hear the word's dead

and beat, it sounds to me like violent and somebody was beaten to death. Well, then you'd write that would be let's see. So deadbeat would be beat dead. That's the phrase you're afraid of. This is a person was beat dead. Well, sure. I don't like that. I don't like it. Yeah. I flip it. Okay. The legal definition defines deadbeat parents as parents. Yeah. I like that it's parents. It's not really fair for us to say deadbeat dad, even though that's fair. Okay. It's an honor present fair. Oh, in his case, it was that.

And yeah. Okay. The legal definition defines deadbeat parents as parents of either gender who have freely chosen not to be supportive parents or who do not pay their child support obligations. However, the label has become so generalized that the freely chosen aspect is too often forgotten. Most of the fathers lumped in as deadbeat dads are not dads unwilling to support their children. They are simply unable to afford the child support. Yeah. When 66% of all child support,

not paid by fathers is due to an inability to come up with the money. Calling all the dads who

mispayments deadbeat is painting with far too broad of a brush. Hmm. Interesting. My father never paid

child support. So he was. And he drove a quarter. So he was technically a deadbeat dad. I hate to say that out loud. But it is the truth. That's where a lot of my iris tends. That's the thing I can't make peace with. He was lovely. Yeah. He was sweet to me. Yeah. And then he was also eating people. He loved. Yeah. He did. He loved me. Uh, but it's hard for me to reconcile the fact that he didn't fucking pay child support. Is it because he was always on the verge and not having any money?

it would have been spend 170% of what you make. That was his. So there were periods of his life where he actually made a ton of money. Like I think he made almost a million dollars a year. In Michigan. And like 98. Wow. But he went and immediately bought a million dollar house a Jaguar or two Harley's blah blah blah. He spent more than he had this gangster apartment in Chicago

overlooking the river. How did he not be forced to pay? That's my mother never took him to court.

“That's what would have happened. She could have taken him to court for not paying child support.”

She could have reported him. Right. And she just never did. Okay. So we'll speak up in the 80s how many single moms. Okay. By 1980, the number of single parent families stood at 5.9 million, which represented an increase of 71% during the 70s. The rate of increased slowed significantly during the 80s, although the number of one parent families continued to increase. Well, my parents got divorced in 1978. Oh. So they were part of this group. Mm-hmm. I was

still one of very few. Think we were the only family on our block that had a single parent. Yeah.

It's so amazing how it's true. I mean, but it was really segregated economically. So

axford acres was pretty nice. It was like middle class and everyone was married. But then all my friends who I like hanging out with the poor kids from Los Algardons and all these different mobile home parks, all those people's parents were divorced. Well, it makes sense. Right. If you only

“have one income coming in, you're most likely gonna have less money. That's true. And I think there's”

other factors. But yeah. Yeah. I think the alcoholism rate is higher. I think the domestic disturbance, you know, there's a lot of things inextricably married to low income that's unfortunate. Right. But it's all connected. Right. Maybe like if you're by yourself, you're raising three kids. That's maybe a little miserable. You know, I mean, you don't have you have one job. You don't have very much money. Like maybe you're more willing to drink. And then it's a spiral.

But I have to imagine there's a really high correlation between low income and unwanted pregnancies. I don't think rich kids have nearly as many unwanted babies. Yeah. Well, exactly. Yeah. So that all feeds into itself. And again, like health care, like rich kids get on birth control or have abortions. And there was just yesterday this Supreme Court, the Louisiana abortion case.

“There's a bunch of horses. These trap laws where they say like you have to have the one of them”

was the the hallways had to be long and are wide enough to support two hospital beds passing each

other at speed. Like something that never happened at a any place. Yeah. Yeah. And this one specifically

was there had to be another type of hospital within some range of the clinic. Okay. Something went wrong. Yeah. And then I also think maybe that those doctors also had to be resident doctors at other hospitals, which is just in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it was another positive Supreme Court ruling. There's been he has it Roberts. He voted in his real allegiance, which is very admirable is precedent. That's his yeah. It's like he won't let his opinion overwrite president.

Like he was basically deciding, no, we've decided this case. It was Rovey Wade. Right. And this is in opposition to Rovey Wade. Well, there was a case in Texas. I think that was more specifically. That was very it was this exact thing. Oh, okay. I think Rovey Wade is still like quo on the top of the block. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Anyway. So so that was good. But you know, it's just you see how it all ties together. Right. So if the clinic can't be in a rural area,

then people who are in poor areas can't get abortions. And then it's just this cycle. It's all part of the same conversation we're having over over and get where especially like black people are again in these positions like that they can't get out of. Mm-hmm. So this was good. This was a good news for the Supreme Court. Well, as that systems guy told us, whatever result you're seeing is a perfectly designed system to create that result. Yeah. So if you don't like

the results, you can just wish the results are different. The system is creating them perfectly. Yeah. The meme that you know has been going around is the system is not broken. It was built this way. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It works perfectly. Yeah. To get the result that we're getting. Mm-hmm. Oh, yes. You talked about the 60 minutes food chemist in I read this article. And it is, yeah, they just actively make an addiction. Yeah. And I'm going to say, I'm not, I would say,

I'm not as kuku about food is. I think a lot of my friends are. Yeah. I'm not like,

I guess just what I'm saying is it's not my cause per se. I'm not someone who's like anti GMO

and all these different things. But when I saw that, I did think, like I guess let me let me back up.

“If you want to fucking eat McDonald's, go get them. I guess that's what I'm saying.”

I have friends that probably want to make that illegal. Right. So I might go get them get fat, die, whatever. I'm a, you know, that part of me is a libertarian. No, but don't die, but you know, but this is your right, too. With that said, I'm watching that. It's not unlike the technology in our apps where I was watching that and I realized we are defenseless. There are people that are much smarter than us and have a much better plan to trick your body that anyone would be powerless

over. If they make the taste disappear immediately. I mean, you can't compete with that.

No. And it was like, how can an individual compete with billions of dollars being spent to make you do this? And that's where we get into this huge ethical question. And it correlates currently to masks, right? Yes, everyone technically has the right to commit suicide to kill themselves.

“But you do not have the right to kill somebody else. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Again,”

and I just want to be on record is saying, look, I am way further on the right side of the spectrum about Corona than all my friends. I've been wrong several times already, which I've admitted to, but I still, in like, there ain't no stop in it unless the hospitals are overrun, let's just get this thing going. Protect the old people, old people. It's on you. It's on you. The hospitals are starting to get really crazy here. They just sent out like,

they're getting worse. They're getting worse. Yeah. You know, part of me, again, the libertarian part of me is like, you know, old people are drastically outpacing the rest of the population for dying of this. And I'm sorry. I love my, well, I've lost my last grandparents recently, but I love my grandparents. It's on them to protect themselves. I'm sorry. It's part of me

“is like, you're the one that's at high risk. So you got to have your shit buttoned up. You got”

to not interact with people without masks. You got to, but let me just say, okay, that's I'm just telling you my position. But I still have to do the right thing, ethically. Even though I feel that way emotionally about it, I have to do the safest thing possible. Yeah. I would do everything I can because some of those old people aren't going to do it. And they're stubborn and they have this that another reason that I should be benevolent enough to help. And I'm going to do that. I'm

going to go against what my instinct is to do. And there's no arguing that a bull people have masks on. You're in the single, digit personage of information. So as opposed to 70%.

I guess here's my thing. It's like, oh, God, I always get, I always use this. No wonder they hate me.

If you're diabetic and you don't have insulin on you and you can't eat a bunch of carbs right now, it's not my job to fucking take all the carbs out of the restaurant or not eat carbs in front of you. It's your job to monitor your blood sugar. So if you are susceptible to this disease, you've got to protect yourself. That's not my job. But older people generally are the ones that need a little more help. Right? So if I need to help my grandma, if I'm the one in charge of taking care

of her, and I have to go to the grocery store to buy us groceries and no one there is wearing a mask. And now I am totally susceptible and I bring that to them. They're being careful. That's the best case scenario. But I could bring it to them. But again, and not to be a dick. But you know, you shouldn't hang with your grandparents until there's a vaccine. But what if they can't feed themselves? Oh, well, then you can drop shit off at their door. I mean, you don't have to interact with them.

But older people need more help. They just need more help. Like my mom's sister is living with my grandparents right now. And that needs to happen. That's not like she just wants to. That that needs to happen. And so if my aunt gets it, yes, she'll probably be fine. But they will not be fine. And it's not a choice for a lot of people. And a lot of people live, you know, we're privileged. We can be distant. And we can do that. A lot of people don't have that luxury.

They're a big family living in one house. And you can't separate. You know, so it is up to us to have some social responsibility to help the people who are not in the positions we're in. Yeah, you know, my friend has it right now. I told you this whole story. We were supposed to go off-roading. Uh-huh. Uh, so my friend is a music producer. And he and I were supposed to go off-roading.

to my aunt, Miami. Some big hip-hop artists wanted him to come record the next morning.

“Mm-hmm. So he went and he was there for a few days. And then he came back and when he got back”

he goes, yo, they do not give a fuck about going down there. Yeah. No one had blank, blah, blah, blah. And then he got it. He got it while he's there. So he has it right now. And I've been checking in with him to see like, you know, how's he? He's like, it's good. You know, my breathing hasn't been affected, which is good. But he said so the day before he was so fucked up that his wife was talking to him and he couldn't. He's like, I kind of, I thought she was speaking another language.

And I was like, oh my god, I'm going down hell. Went to bed, woke up the next morning. And

was like, oh, it passed. Mm. I feel back to normal. He's excited. His wife makes him his favorite

meal, pork chops with this mushroom gravy. And he goes, honey, do you change the recipe? No. And she's like, no, he's like, yeah, you did. What would you do different? She's like, honey,

“I didn't do anything different. He's like, oh my god, it tastes different. He can't taste anything.”

He's like, bring me a strawberry. She brought him a strawberry. He's not thin. He has no smell. No taste as if yesterday. Now, hopefully that will return. See, yeah. This is it. We don't know all the things yet. I'm sure it'll return. He'll be fine. But that's scary. I hope he feels better. Well, anyway, it's important to have social response of ability. Well, again, that's the

whole reason I laid out my whole thing is I'm telling you how what I would want to do. Yeah.

But I am saying, there is a time for individual rights. And there is a time to get over that. Yeah. You know, yeah. It's again, it'll be a year out of your life. Yeah. And it'll be a fucking year of your life of 80 years, hopefully. Yeah. That you had to wear mask for the highest. At the risk of getting into a fight with you, which

“we're going to avoid. But I also, you do have to weigh the economy. You have to weigh what”

percentage of GDP drop will result in which amount of death. And then compare that potential collateral death against what the death would have been from corona that you just responsible you have to think of that. If the cure is worse than the disease, if we end up killing people because people aren't getting screened for cancer and they're not getting their vaccines on time and all these other things, if that number ends up being worse than corona, then logic will tell us we got to just

e-corona and not because it'll be a net smaller death. Okay. With all that said, even if that was true, you're wearing your mask to places has no impact on any of that. Yeah. You know, it just doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, it's a little more complicated than that. It's like it's disproportionately affecting one community. And if we just let those people die, that's not. Okay. Speaking of the block in Latino. Yep. Yeah. Rich people fare better. Like that's that's

true. How it should be. How it should be. Yeah. Yeah. Like the guy who won the clipers. It's totally sterling. Yeah. Don't sterling. Oh, yeah. He was a great guy. He's a better person. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. Okay. The Swedish word for not too much not too little legum. Legum. Just the right amount. Cool. Okay. And then we talk a little about shrumes on this podcast. And it seems apropos for

me to say, since we recorded this, I have tried them. Yes. You tried them. And I didn't even instigate it. You did not even instigate it. But I volunteered to be a part of it. Yes. And to be a babysitter. Yes. The sober, sober companion. And I'm very grateful that there was a sober companion there. It was everything you said it was going to be. You were right. Say it again. I've said it a lot of times that I'll say it again. I was wrong about Corona. But I was right about my journey. You were right.

It was a lovely experience. And it was really cool to see the world in a brand new way. Yeah. It's best to take your standard world. You've seen all the time that you're familiar with and recognize how much your brain is in charge of assembling these photons in a way that you call reality. Yeah. And then all of a sudden your brain starts assembling them in a different way. Yeah. And it is a different reality. Yeah. And it cannot be experienced without that. I mean,

maybe some meditators can or something. But yeah. So walk down a street that you've walked down. I know. It was that was such a big takeaway for me is I just kept thinking, I'm taking everything

a lot. And I'm missing it. I'm missing it every time. What I think what happens like the best way

to explain it. And we've had a lot of experts on here talk about how your brain is fantastic at filing things into the subconscious. So operating the car. You're not thinking about driving the car. You just drive the car because it the whole program is running in the subconscious. Yeah. And we're also great at getting rid of distractions. So we can focus on things we want, which means filing everything else into that white noise category. And when you get on shrimps, it's no longer white

noise. Yeah. It's all right there. All these things that you've learned to ignore through design.

“Yeah. You now can see you. And I think probably for different people, there's a different level”

of that, right? Because we talked about this on a couple episodes ago, I feel that I'm in my head all the time. Yeah. And you feel that way too. I'm in my head so much that I'm not paying attention to the physical world around me very often. Mm-hmm. And yeah. So this was such a different reality for me. Whereas for some other people, I think it wasn't as extreme. Right. It's not as big of a difference. Yeah. The other thing it's great at doing. And this is well documented in what's

his name's book. Michael Paulms. Yeah. Michael Paulms book is your brain's really, really good at comprehending you as an individual. And then the world separate from you and around you. Yeah. And Shrooms breaks down the barriers a bit of your sense of individualness, in your sense of detachment. And you feel like when you touch the pavement and you touch the flower that you're

“really interacting with it. Like in a way that is not I'm this and that's that. It's like,”

oh, we're this thing. And I don't know. There's this. Yeah. That's the thing I also like about it is how it kind of shatters the obsession of your identity. Yeah. Right. I guess. Well, so I had a top start. Uh-huh. I got really scared. Everyone who I trusted looked bizarre. And so everyone was getting high. And I had completely forgotten the most annoying part

about doing drugs. Was that everyone just monitors how high they are for the first hour. Yeah.

Are you on my three? Are you two? I don't want. Well, look at those trees. Those are those trees. Yeah. Was that leave doing that? No. This leaves not doing this. Is that leave doing this? No. I can't feel anything. I'm too high. The whole thing. Yeah. I was like, I need to step out until everyone just feels high. So I went inside and I started playing words with friends. Yeah. I was gone for 20 minutes and then it really hit you at 20 minutes. Yes.

And you were like, what the fuck? You told me you're going to help me and you've abandoned me. Yeah. I felt like you gave me drugs. Like, well, a lot. I felt like we've been talking about this for years. You've been trying to get me to do this for years. And then you, you left. Yes, which I, which I did. It was very regrettable. But of all the people that were doing it, you were 0% high. You were same. I was. Yeah. I was like, oh, she's not even high. And this

conversation is annoying. I'm going to go inside. I wasn't high. And then all of a sudden, I looked down at my hands. Because you had said that when, when you do a shrimp, you'll get your hands a lot. So I was kind of checking in with my hands to see. And they were normal. And then all of a sudden, I looked and then they shriveled up into grandma hands right in front of my eyes. And it was so startling and scary. And I thought, am I a grandma now? Like, I didn't know what was happening.

And I gram on now. And that immediately, I felt really unsafe and then abandoned. Yeah. And again, there's like layers of real life. This is why they're therapeutic. It's like, whatever you really

fear, it is going to be the loudest thing that if it goes wrong, that it'll be the first thing that

comes out. So it's like, in real life, you're so linked to my train and Kristen's train. And there's

“a certain amount of powerlessness in that. Yeah. And what if we just disappear?”

And you're so linked to it. And then I just disappeared. Like, it happened. I know. It was bad. And I was crying, which was, I think, a bummer for everyone. And then then you came out. You came out to check on us. And while I was like, oh, he's coming back. And then you came back and then you looked fuzzy. Uh-huh. You didn't know if I was real. By the way, when I, when I did come outside, you were crying and you were also laughing. You know that,

you were like, you were, you were bouncing back and forth, but you couldn't laugh because we were

literally paying attention to start. I was crying, but then Ryan was like, Monica hates the story.

“And then I started laughing because obviously, I was not thinking about the story, but that was like a”

funny thing to say, but I was still crying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when I got very involved, you were, you were thinking you couldn't breathe. Yeah. And then you were really scared. And then I was like, okay, we need to reset. Yeah. Let's go out on the street and let's take a little walk and no one's ever stop breathing in terms. Yeah. Your body knows how to breathe. You don't have to think about breathing. Yeah. And then you came back. I did. And it was so impressive because when I saw you

I was like, Oh, fuck man, I told her to do this. It's gone south. Yeah. I generally, when it goes south, it stays south. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. I really kind of misled you. And I was very pessimistic and bombed. And then 15 minutes into the walk, things started changing. Yeah. And then you just had to this very beautiful ride. I did. I did. So sweet. What you, you said, listen, you can choose for the next three hours. Things are going to be fucked up looking. Yeah. And you get to decide how you see it. So

I chose to enjoy it. Yeah. And then find it beautiful. And I did it. And it was, it was really spectacular. Yeah. It was really cool. I was so happy on the ride home in the minivan. Chrysler Pacifica, no better vehicle to have a, someone untrume. Okay. We don't do that. No, I love it. I love it. I use go. You are right. This isn't to be missed on plan earth. I was like, oh, thank God. Yeah. I, I feel that. I feel that. Yeah. It was real like, yeah, it was real.

I was like, I was talking. I would have put that on like, if, if that hadn't gotten turned around, that would have been as bad as if you didn't end up getting your house after I said, you didn't get it. It was, it was that level or worse. You put a lot of pressure on yourself. But you shouldn't have. But it, no, it was dumb that I split. But again, you, you really weren't high at all. Everyone else was a little high and you simply weren't. I was like, I don't who knows.

It hits so fast. In my opinion, maybe not. Maybe it was more slow than I thought. Well, another thing that just is relevant is that the initial idea was that people were going to micro dose, which I was against. I was like, there's really no point in micro dosing in my opinion. Now, it might be great for people like severe depression and they can do it and still work. And I have no opinion on that. But for the experience, I wanted you to have micro dosing isn't it?

So it started as a micro dosing experiment. Yes. Quickly known felt anything. So then you guys doubled the micro dose dose, which still I was like,

“to do what I know you should do. Yeah. Just like have a cap in a stem and fucking let's see what happens.”

Yeah. So after this is what also made it really tricky for me to help navigate you guys. It's like, you guys took the one pill, then you took 25 minutes later. You took another pill and then then I go on people had to get real shrumes and bring yeah, someone's eating chocolate. I'm like, who even makes this chocolate? You guys that could have 10,000 milligrams of cyber or one. What do you know? So it's a real mushrooms were procured in real form that I knew about caps and stems.

But at this point, that's now 75 minutes from when you guys took the fur and I'm like, you guys fucked this whole thing. You just don't get this time at the beginning. Like I said,

now God knows. I think this would be good for you. But anyways, it was left to me to basically

dose you guys. Yeah. Yeah. So I picked for everyone what they should have. And for the most part, I did a good job. Yeah. And that was another part I'm remembering now. So okay. First of all, yes, I went in thinking this is going to be a micro dose situation that maybe some colors are going to be a little brighter than normal. Yeah. So my expectations were not set correctly. And then it did, they didn't catch up to when we -- But you kept changing your opinion, too. Like I want more,

like I didn't feel nothing. Oh, well, well, I was like, now that I've done this, yeah, I better feel something. Now, I did not want to feel like the my art, my hands were grandma hands. Yeah. I just wanted what I was promised, which was that the world was going to be a little brighter and sparkly or something. But you had been told from other friends who had micro dose. Correct. Yeah. So so I was like, let's take a more. But I was not in the headspace that I was going to

“like take a full duck. Yeah. So anyway, so when you were dosing us, you said to me, I think you should”

take this. And I said, really? And you didn't like that. I said that. I didn't. Because in my defense,

I had lost complete. You guys had taken the one pill, and the second pill. And I, at this point,

I was like, if you want me involved, let me do this. Yeah. Yeah. I understand your point of view.

And so I was losing patience. Uh, totally. I understand that. And I was scared.

“Scott, yes. I was scared. And I was just like, are you like, this seems like a lot. Yeah. Yeah.”

And in my defense, I was right. Like that. That wasn't a micro dose. Exactly. It was like, this is what I'm doing. But I was skeptical. And you didn't like it. And then I felt like, okay, now he's bad at me about that. But you weren't the only person arguing with. But if you recall, yeah, but you snapped at me. Of course I did. I know exactly. So I, and you know why, it's actually probably not that we disagreed about that. It's the I want you to trust me.

And I'm pissed you don't trust me because I would never. I know. Not take care of you.

Although 20 minutes later, I did not take care of it. Well, that was part of it. That was part of it. So I said, okay, okay. And then I did it. And then I was like, are you serious? You got mad at me when I, yeah, when I pushed back, then I said, okay. And now you're gone. Yeah, you had big grievance. You had a legitimate grievance. But it all worked out. It all worked out and it was lovely. And I'm very grateful for you. And I'm very, very grateful you were there. And I would not have

been able to turn around if you weren't there. Oh, well, I'm sorry. It made me so happy that you guys had such a sweet night. Yeah. It was really funny too because of the, I'd say the success of the evening. Yeah. And it's kind of dissipated through our friendship circle, a couple different people told me like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to go with my girlfriend and we're going to do it. I forget where. And I was like, cool. And your girlfriend's done it. And she's like,

no, and I'm like, no, I'm like, you can't go to a new, there's some place they've never been. No,

neither person have done it. I'm like, I'm telling you, you will convince yourself that you've got the one bad batch of mushrooms in your die. That's what's going to happen if there's not someone there who's either done it a bunch or is sober like, I am totally to go everything's chill. No one's ever been hurt. Let's start thinking about this. I agree. Yeah. I would not recommend to people on

“their own experiment. My friend Greg introduced me to it. I'll never forget what a fucking day. I think”

I was about 18. I was out of high school. And I was just like living in Detroit and working for my mom. And I worked with this guy, Greg. Oh, I fucking love so much. And he had this big jar of shrimps. He's like, yeah, if you ever want to do him. And he was a normal guy. He wasn't a druggy. Yeah. Like, if he had been like a druggy type, I wouldn't address him. But he's a pretty straight late dude who believed in celcibs at a young age. Yeah. He came over in four of us did him at my

mom's house. And then we wandered into Camp Deerbarn, which I had been in a million times. I knew what was

supposed to look like. Yeah. And we wandered around the toboggan hills. And I found a bulldozer that had the key in it. And I drove a bulldozer. Can I don't love that part? But it was such an incredible time. Yeah. Really was. And there's nothing grimey about it. Like, if you do Coke, you get fucking gross. If you do access to you get pretty gross, if you do Matthew get gross, a lot of these drugs, they, you know, they bring out the pleasure center of your brain. Yeah. The shrimps is not that at all.

Shrimps is there's nothing grody about it. No. Also for anyone who would want to sue me in the future, because I told you do it, I'm telling you not to do it. Don't ever do shrimp. I am not condoning anyone to do shrimp. You're not allowed to do it. I'm not encouraging anyone to. And I'm not liable. But my experience with shrimps was this and yours was that. Yeah. Just be very clear. Yes. Yes. Some armed cherry gets looped up and rides a bicycle off a bridge. I know. I think we're not

advocating condoning. No, this is our experience that we're sharing. Yeah. We had a really funny moment where I kept pointing things out to Monica again, because I've done it 100 times and I know what's good. What things are going to look cool on it? What aren't? So I'm like, Oh, Monica, look at the wood here. Look at the grain and the wood. I'm like, look at that house. You think there's a sitcom going on in there? Oh, yeah. Drama. And then you go, how do you know that? Are you on it? Are you making me think that?

Or do I think that? And you also, like, it was so fun. And then I thought you weren't real, because I thought maybe you were just in my brain somehow. And you were out on your own walk,

“yeah, I did. Oh my god, you know everything I'm thinking. Which can't be. You must be in my brain,”

which means you're not real. That was another big takeaway was, which, you know, I think we know this in life, but it was so apparent how affected we are by other people and other people's energy. So when I say, I bummed everyone out, I think that's for real. Like, I'm really glad you pulled me out quick, because everyone probably would have started getting really sad really quick. Yeah. Because your energy is so infectious. And if you point something out and it looks weird,

participants, yes, was like, I know. I know. I know. Yeah. And then we both were kind of feeding off of,

“like, oh, that got, that got really scary real quick. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But then later, when another”

participant was looking at hands, she was like, isn't it cool? Yeah. And then I was like, it is cool to look down at your own hands that you've been staring at your whole lifetime and for them to be different is awesome. It is, but you can choose. You either can see it. Look, both things are true. It is scary.

Uh-huh. To see something you know to be real and substantial in front of you, not be that. Yeah.

And it's also cool. So whatever you say, you can have such a big impact on the people around you. And that's just like, so true about life. Like, your energy and what you say. But again, it does go to that thing. I was saying where it's kind of eroding these walls between us, where it's like, it is so transmissible. Yeah. Like, it loves more transmissible. Yeah. Fear's more transmissible.

“It's all more transmissible. But the thing is, I don't know that it's more. I think it's the same”

amount as what we're doing day to day. We're just not as aware of it. Our energy does that on a daily basis. I don't agree though, because the participant you're talking about in general life, that person can make an observation, you would go, well, yeah, of course, she sees it that way, because she's this. She's this thing. She's that thing. She's this thing. But I'm this thing, that thing, and this

thing, so it's not the same for me. Like, although of course, that guy thinks that I always do this.

Like, anytime I have a disagreement with someone's perspective, I immediately try to figure out why their perspective is different. I don't assume that their perspective is correct. That's true.

“I think of the reasons why we have different one. But you can really share perspective in a way on”

terms that it's hard to share. I guess I mainly mean more energy-wise. Like, if people are happy, you can, you can borrow that energy. But if someone is sat around you, that has an impact. Whether you, you can logically be like, that's separate from me. It is seeping in. Oh, yeah. Well, anyone who has a partner who has depression has experienced that. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, again, social responsibility. You got to take care of yourself so that you can take care of people around you. Yeah.

When are you going to do it again? Not in a rush to do it again. It was wonderful, but I definitely don't feel like I got to do that next weekend. Again, that's a thing. It's not like getting drunk or like, that was fun. I want to get fucked up tonight. Yeah. If there's something, it's a little exhausting. Yeah. Like the next couple of days, you're aware that you went through this thing. Oh, for sure. In a nice way, though, in this like, you're tapped into some emotion. Yeah.

That's sweet. Yes. And you can feel it. And you're not anxious to get back in the fire, because you're processing and trying to understand it all. Right. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do that. I can. I love you.