February 2026 Three Things

>> Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Baton Paper podcast. I'm Becca Freeman, and I'm Olivia Mentor. And it's three things episode. And this is the first episode for my new apartment, and this is the first episode we've recorded since little one came out. We have a lot of exciting things going on in our lives. Yes, we just signed on and it had the new backgrounds. I know. >> I know. And it was so exciting. Such an exciting time. Such an exciting time. Well, let's do

some highs and lows before we get into some things. We'll tell me about your high. Tell me about my new era. My highs obviously that I moved. I feel like you said you were like you've been anticipating this for so long and you're so right. It feels so good to finally have it behind me.

I feel much more settled than I expected to. I unpacked really quickly, which is always my move.

“And I think I thought that my furniture would not fit as well as it does in some instances,”

and so I thought it would just feel wrong. But I really do feel pretty settled already. And I love my new apartment. I'm just, I'm so happy. I'm so, so happy. >> Oh, good. This has been such a long time coming. I'm so excited for you. You already painted your office. The gorgeous shade of blue. You wasted no time. >> I'm not surprised at all, but it looks so beautiful and soothing. And yeah, I'm just so happy for you. What a nice way to

I don't know. I still feel like we're at the beginning of the year. And a lot of ways. So what a nice way to kick off the year. >> Truly. Truly. I mean, it's lunar new year this week. So I feel like I'm embracing the lunar calendar. It's the year of the firehorse, which apparently

“is very auspicious. There hasn't been a year of the firehorse since the 1960s I believe.”

And the last year of the fire, I think it was the fire rabbit was in the 80s. And it's supposed to be a very good year for progress and like moving things forward and like decisiveness. So I feel like that's that's very good energy with my new home and moving. And I don't know. Yes, that feels very aligned with everything going on. So yeah, good vibes all around. Good vibes all around. So yeah, I'm just so happy to have moved. I'm also happy that it's been warmer the last few days. And I'm

getting to explore my new neighborhood a little as well. It's nice to also, I'm obsessed with my four walls, but it's nice to get out of them, too. >> Yeah, it's been like 35 and I was like, wow, feeling brisk outside, feeling springy. Even though as I stare at like two feet of snow that's been there for weeks and weeks. >> I hear you. >> That's lovely. I have more new house questions for you, but we'll get to those in our things. >> Okay. Tell me about your high.

“My high is that I just got back yesterday from almost two solid weeks of being on tour. So I think”

it was something like seven events. I guess seven cities, at least. Maybe more. I'm not sure. I have to count it all up. Many planes, many trains, many lovely people. >> A lot of people.

>> Yes, lots of movers. I've never been in so many overs of my life. I've never ordered

over-eats so much in my life, but there is a kind of just complete relaxation that comes from choosing what you want on over-eats and then having it delivered to your hotel. It just feels, I don't know, like I'm in some alternate universe. >> It kind of reminds me of, you know, did you ever watch spy kids? >> No. >> There's a scene where they make McDonald's in this very high-tech way. Anyway, it kind of reminds me of that. But I digress. Anyway, it was just the lovely, string of event. It was so nice

to meet people. It was so nice to meet listeners, readers. It was lovely. Except for one major thing, look, we'll get to you in my low. It was honestly like the stuff of dreams. It was really, really nice. It just felt really good after being alone with the book for so long to be celebrating it with people who are just also interesting and kind and everyone has such great questions. Like some people

ask me about my favorite parts of events and it's always the Q&A because people just come up with

the best questions that I would never have thought of. Yeah, so it's been great. Well, I got to be at your New York event and it was so special to see a room full of readers and theoretically many of them also podcast listeners and to see how excited they were to celebrate with it. It was really special. Thank you. And you brought me the most amazing candy gift. This bond bond set of

hotel room. It was like the thing that was just I was looking forward to more than even more than

the overeats. I was like I have my bag of fancy Swedish candy and I am thrilled. So thank you for that. Yeah, that New York event was really special too because my parents were there and Jake was there and some of my best friends and it was it was just lovely. Well likewise that you have house

“questions for me. I have book two or questions for you. I think our our things are just gasky each”

other up. So great. We'll loop that again. Good energy for the New York. What you alluded to, they're being a exception to the high. What do you know? Yes. So yeah, I saw you on the New York event was on Friday after the book came out. So I had already done I think two events prior and I felt good for that event. But I told you right before like I'm starting to feel a bit weird. My throat starting to feel a little weird. And I mean I had been talking nonstop for many days to many people.

And so I thought, oh, it's probably data. I'm just tired. I woke up that next morning and I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. This is not good. And so I don't know what was wrong with me. But I have been

sick ever since, basically. And I'm sure it doesn't help that I just kept on keeping on, you know,

“at going to events and traveling and stuff. I also feel like a universal truth is if you get on an”

airplane feeling a little sick, you're going to get off feeling like hot trash. Yeah, I was hot stuff on all sorts of over the counter truck. So I was just really trying to power through and do my best. And I definitely have felt better every day. But it's just one of those things that it's really lingering and anyway, it was rough. It was really rough. And it was so funny because I listened to briefly, like it just came up on my, you know, just played on my podcast player that our episode

from last week that we had recorded right before I went on tour. And I was like, I'm a little bird out. And I'm just hoping that all the work I'm doing now means that when I'm on tour, I can just really relax and I was like, oh, no. So I think I have been some version of burnt out for now, like going on a month. And I actually do have a lot of work this week. But I am planning a day where I'm just going to just to reset and take care of myself. So give yourself

multiple days. Yeah. Well, you've been running. But yeah, I don't think I've ever gone this hard for this long in terms of just jam packed schedule. But I'm back for more than a few days. I still have some events here and there. So definitely check out my website for those dates. But it was not good timing. I was pretty bummed about it. But also we can do hard things. I power through

“not saying that you should power through sickness, but I try my best. Well, I'm glad that it didn't”

impact tour also being your high that you can hold both things simultaneously. Yeah. In a way, it was kind of good because I just was forced to like just push through. You know, again, don't recommend. But there's something about like a book event where I don't know about you, but you just kind of black out. It's like, everyone's like, are you tired? I'm like, no, I have a adrenaline worsening through every cell of my body. Yeah. Yeah. The tell me your low. My low is I am such an idiot.

And I went to the closing for my apartment last Thursday and all I had to bring. There were two things I had to bring. My license and a check. Want to know what I forgot? My license. I realized it standing outside also, you know, I had to go from Brooklyn to a law firm in Midtown. So, you know, maybe like 30, 45 minutes away from home. And I realized it standing outside the building that I had

forgotten my license. I put it in a tote bag the day before to go get the check. And then I never

transferred it back. So I just had my purse with no wallet in it. And the amount of heart palpitations I had in that minute where I had to call my lawyer and be like, hi, Todd, I forgot my license. Do you want me to go home? And then I can come back and ended up being fine. We had scans of my license from other parts of the process. And I hope I'm not getting anyone trouble by saying this. But the building's lawyer would not not notice for me, but my lawyer was happy to notice for me

without my license with just scans of it. So it ended up being fine. But the absolute stomach sinking heart beating out of my chest feeling, I experienced at the 11th hour realizing

oh my god, I, I literally felt faint. You know, actually a very similar thing happened to us.

“I don't remember if I told you this, but we closed here upstate before we moved. So we drove four”

hours from Philly. We got the lawyers' office and we sat down and we realized that we had done, you know, there's like a wire transfer that takes a few days and then there's an ACH or vice versa. I don't remember which one is better. I had to bring a physical check. We did the wrong one.

No. So, so they didn't have the money, basically. And I was like, oh my god, if we have to

drive four hours back and then four hours back two days. Oh my god, but it worked out. But it was seriously. It was that feeling you described of like, oh my gosh, this has been such a process. I was so excited. We're so close. And then I ruined it. Yeah. It was, it was not good. But anyway, I feel like that's just, you're hanging by a thread at that point. You know, and you're also about to hand over like the largest sum of money you've ever handed over in your life and

everything feels so intense. But I'm glad it worked out in the end, but it was fine. But it was, oh, it was a rough five minutes. But here you are. Here I am in my house. Very exciting.

Okay. Let's take a quick ad break and then let's get into some things.

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Tell me your first thing. Okay, I have a very quick, simple first thing.

“I would like to know, what song do you think is on the most number of playlists that you have?”

Oh. Hmm. Like, what is your stands the test of time? All seasons, all moods, song? It is a great, great question. Let me think about this. Tell me yours, because I know you have what picked up. Well, I thought of this because I realized this one song has just been on most playlists I've made for the past 20 years, maybe not 20 years, but close, silver lining,

buy right low Kylie is so good. There's never a time I don't want to hear that song. I would say

perhaps, I mean, that one is on more of them just because that song has been released for much longer, but I would say if I was picking a more recent song, it would probably be the one by Taylor Swift. Which again is a song that I'm like, it's a little happy, it's a little sad, it's good walking, it's like good vibing. There's never a time I don't want to hear it. Those are all good choices. I'm taking notes as I think about this. I think for me, one of them is definitely,

I've talked about this before, but the song "Go Do" by Jonesy. I'm probably pronouncing that wrong. I don't think he's Americans or the band is American, okay? Because I used to listen to the song repeatedly in high school all the time because it was really a hype song for me. I was like,

“the line is like, you should always know that you can do anything. So I would just listen to it again and”

again and again. It was very much a your life as a music video, your life as a Toby song, which is pretty much my favorite genre of song. And now I listen to it all the time because as I've said before, it's my I finished something with this book song. So when I finish a draft, I play it at full blast. When I get good news, I play it at full blast. When the book comes out,

It's also special with something like that. I feel similarly to silver lining that it connects you

“with past versions of yourself. Like I can picture myself driving in college and listening to this”

song. You know, I can picture myself being in my early 20s listening to this song. And so it does feel like time travel a little bit to listen to one of those songs and to have it means something to you and to be just kind of bopping with your past versions of you. Yes, exactly exactly. And another one is the wood pile by frightened rabbit. I've talked about frightened rabbit on here before. But that song every time I make a playlist and ends up on an

ice square. Actually, I had a music related things, too. But I thought it. And it was that when we road trip down to the outer banks recently, we did it with two friends. And I was like, let's do a playlist that we make it together and we each choose, well, it started with, we will each choose 10 songs, but we ended up choosing way more and every song had to have some sort of a story. So in the

“song would come on, we'd have to guess which person put it on the list. And then we would talk”

about who chose it and why. And it was so fun. But that's the very end right in rabbit songs. Yeah, I highly suggest for a road trip. By the way, it made it fly by. It was so, so fun. And I learned so much about my friends and even about Jake. And yeah, it was a little bit like our nostalgic playlist thing ever said we did. Okay, final one is anything by Rayla Montaine. I feel like I have listened to Rayla Montaine through every phase of my life. And for the book I'm writing

now, there are two songs that I listen to probably once a day minimum that I used to always listen

to in high school. I used to lay in the bathtub and listen to this album just on full blast and like just dream about my life. And now I'm kind of doing the same thing except I'm dreaming of other people's lives. So for some reason Rayla Montaine strongly brings me back to my first job out of college being on my lunch break and like driving around to get a coffee. Yeah, you know that song you

“are the best thing. It was everywhere. Sure. It still is everywhere. But I, you know, I think he's going”

on toward the summer and that song is 20 years old. Wow, which is something. But I still love him. I just looked up what year silver lining came out and it came out in 2007, which was it. It's not something because I remember listening to it in college. But I was like, oh wow, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a definitely vote. It could have kids. Yeah. Yeah. That makes me want to listen to all these songs now. I'm very curious

to hear what other people's are. I think this is a good Facebook group slash BFF group topic too. Oh, can I add one more? Sure. Send me on my way by rusted root. I don't know that one. Oh, yes, you do. I do do do do do do do do do do. I'm not getting much from that. I think it's the song where they dance to in Matilda. Oh, my gosh. And I would like to reach out my head. And then there's I know you're talking about, but it's really a gift that you just did that. Well, I just looked

up the lyrics. And I never knew what came after the, I would like to reach out my hand,

the lyric. And it's literally, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, they see you. And then soon, they tell you, they see you. Yeah. No, I know exactly what song you're talking about. Yeah. I'm sorry. But lyric, if you look them up, it looks actually not. I wish I get a gift of you singing that. This is another one. When I first got a car and I could play whatever I want. I had a mix CD. I would play this over and over and over and over and over and over again.

And at that point, he was already like 15 years old. Anyway, great song. What have you brought for your first thing? Uh, my first thing is I want to hear about the house. Like, I want to hear about what you have spent the last few months. I thought you're feeling about what money you've spent. And I was like, oh, wow, if it's uncomfortably deep, why would I do? I don't know. But you really just paused on spent. And I was like, oh, no, break it down for me financially. No,

I just want to know, like, as someone that also went through this process, I know that I fall asleep every night, just like thinking of every single room and all the things I could do to it. So I want to hear what you've been dreaming of. We know about the office, but is there anything you haven't talked about yet they're excited about or do you have like long-term plans that you're looking forward to for the space? Well, so the apartment is newly renovated. It's an old apartment building,

But there are things that I want to tweak about it. So it's not as if there's a long-term plan

to really change much about it. I think that the office is the room that I can picture the most clearly. Like I have a real vision of what that will look like. And there was a moment the office is a bedroom that I'm just using as an office. And there was a moment where I had this really intense vision of turning it into a guest bedroom slash an office. And I was going to get these built-in bookshelves that are built around a couch. And I was going to have it be a pull-out couch so that,

you know, guests could sleep in there. And this whole thing spiraled so quickly and became so expensive. And I was like, hey, maybe take the stuff you already have, paint the room,

“live in it a while, and see if you need to have expensive built-ins around a couch. And somehow also”

in this whole process, the thing that got most deprioritized was the desk. And I was like,

that's the thing that I need every day. Not this TV room den slash guest room. So I can very clearly picture what I want for my office. I think, you know, we're going to have bookshelves. I need to get a rug for in there. And I would like to get a very big desk. I like to spread out. And I feel like my current desk is quite petite. It's a writing desk. And so I want not quite a drafting table, but I want just a big desk. So yeah, very excited about the office. I'm having a lot of trouble

picturing what I'm going to do in my main living area because it's kind of just like a big open box room of the kitchen, the living room, and the dining room. And so I feel like my biggest challenge

with it is going to be making it feel cozy as opposed to it being just a white box. So I'm working

with an interior designer, the same one that I worked on, my previous apartment with. And she's coming over next week to kick off the process, or not kick off. Somebody's already come to measure, but you know, to really start to talk about the place. And I feel like I need her guidance to help

“me figure out what we're going to do in this main room. The only thing I know is that I would”

like a circular dining table. I got rid of my old dining table. I feel like that was one of the things I regretted in my old apartment. I got a dark wood table with gold legs. And I felt like I needed to get dark wood because the floor was dark. And I was like, I don't think I can just put a different wood color. That would be weird. And I really hated the table I got. Like almost immediately. It was a fine table. It was like not offensive. But I was just like, oh, I don't

vibe with us. Dining tables are really difficult because they're kind of one of those pieces of furniture, but I don't know. It's so big. And you have to look at it so much, but it's not. There's really so many directions you can go as well. So you want to do circular, not like oval, but like circular circle. Okay. Nice. So I don't know why, but I guess maybe because of where it's going to sit. I just feel like that would really scratch my brain pleasurably to have a circular dining table.

Yeah, that would probably make the if you're worried about it feeling like a white box like having round, you know, a round shape instead of more squares might help soften it. So I'm very excited about that. I'm also the one place where I might do a little work, work might be a little too strong award is the bathroom. The bathroom has the most offensive lighting I've ever seen. It's like, hey, would you like to confront every flaw you've ever had in the worst lighting imaginable?

“Welcome to my bathroom. That's how I feel when Jake turns on. We have like, you know,”

sconces in our bathroom and then we have like the overhead lighting and sometimes we'll turn them on and I'm like, what are you doing? I do not want to bathe in the full light of day. I want it to be soft and minimal. Yeah. So the lighting needs to get changed out in their ASAP, but I was also thinking about maybe switching out the medicine cabinet, the medicine cabinet that's in there now is very utilitarian. It's not pretty. And it's very functional, but

I'm like, oh, we could do something prettier in here. And so changing the light has like come with this cascading series of other projects. And I'm like, well, I need to know what height to put the light up based on the medicine cabinet. And then I was like, well, if we're going to do that, I think I want to put wallpaper in here. So it's really just like, gone away from me. Last week was painting. I feel like I need to, I don't think it's going to be making any decisions

the bathroom. It's also the only bathroom. And it's where I'm going to be getting ready. So, you know, I can't do two, I don't want to do two bold or wallpaper that then changes the

quality of the light where I'm always getting ready in something that's like slightly green tone.

And I'm like, I have no idea what my makeup looks like ever because my bathroom glow screen. Yes, that's, I mean, that's a good thing to consider that I wouldn't think about, but you're totally right. And then the other thing that I really want to change, I don't like the cabinet hardware, like the, the poles, it's black. Again, it's very stark. It feels very, if it always feels masculine, like it feels, yeah, I don't know. I don't like that at all. So I want to do different

“cabinet hardware, which I think will change the feel of the room. And theoretically, it's like,”

I don't who knows. Of course, I'll probably find like the most expensive cabinet poles, but shouldn't be wildly expensive to change. Yeah, so like that makes a huge difference. It's one thing you realize you get further into adulthood. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see. I'm really excited about being in the process of it's forward moment of now, which I really like. And I'm trying to keep in mind what you said at one point about living in a space and, you know,

wishing you hadn't touched anything for six months to a year. That's not going to happen. I mean, I've already painted a room blue, but, you know, being like, it's okay to take my time. Yeah, I didn't take my time in a lot of ways. But, you know, as long as maybe half the time, you could just wait a little bit. It'll probably serve you well. But some things are just too fun to not do. Yeah, I think I'm going to wait on my bedroom. My existing furniture fits perfectly.

I do want to paint it at some point, but I think I'm just going to like leave it alone for now. Yeah, you have time. You have time. It's also so expensive to do house stuff. So I'm like, just leave it better. Yes, it is. And that thing you were talking about, we're like, once you do one thing, and it reveals this other thing. Yeah. And then it's just like, you think it's going to be, oh, it's a DIY project that can be in a weekend. And then you're like,

actually, it just spirals very quickly. But I'm excited for you. That all sounds amazing. I can't

wait to see it all. Thank you. It's also exciting that I own this place. And you know, I don't, I don't necessarily think this is my forever home. I think my forever home needs to include a in-unit washer dryer, which I don't have. I have a dishwasher now, though. Have you used it? Does it feel? I've used it three times. Every time I turn it on, I get a tingly rush of euphoria.

“That's how ours has been broken for, I think, a year or something. And this morning, I was talking”

to Jake about kitchen appliances about our renovation. And it was like, what is that? I was like, why do you have something in your cart already? He's like, it's the dishwasher. I've already picked it out. I'm so excited about it. I was like, okay, are we just going to have it sitting in our house just six months? But he's, I mean, it's a dishwasher and special thing. Washing dishes was my least favorite chore. And I actively dreaded having to do it. And it's something you also have to do.

Yep. Every time you eat, you're not necessarily every time. But like, you create dishes. Yeah. And they're like, they're drying. They're just sitting there and you're looking at them, like, 24 hours a day. Yeah, it's the worst. I'm so happy for you that you have a dishwasher. Thank you. But, oh, I was, I started to say the thing about owning this place, which is just exciting and feels very adult. And like, I'm very proud of myself in general, is that in my last apartment,

I feel like there was so much that was like, okay, well, how long will I be here? I was making decisions based on like what I thought I could amortize of like, okay, well, if I'm here for three years, just this purchase makes sense. Versus, I feel like there's just more longevity in this

“apartment because I own it. And so, you know, be like, oh, do I want to wallpaper the bathroom?”

I can do that. And no one's going to be like, oh, by the way, we're selling the building totally.

Like, you're, yeah, yeah, that's amazing. It must feel so good. It does.

All right. Can we go to my next thing? Yes. My next thing is I want to talk about book events. And I want to talk about your experience with them because I've published a book. I'm not sure I understand how book tours work and get planned. And I feel like you're much more of an expert on it. So I was hoping we could kind of talk about it. I have specific questions or we talk about it more generally. Yeah. Well, where do you want to begin? Okay. So I think

it would be interesting to hear for listeners, because I remember when I was doing it, so many people were like, come to Toronto, come here, come there. When does a book tour start getting planned? And how did you decide where we were going for this one? I think as soon as copy edits are done, really. I start thinking about where to go or I did in this case.

about this before, but we're three iterating. Publishers are very hesitant to

“invest in book tours, I think, because they can be very hard to justify in terms of, you know,”

I think you kind of have to be selling at least 30 or so books, if not 50, add an event for it to really make sense for the publisher. And I'll talk more about that. Hard to do. So who's driving this conversation? You or the publisher or both, like, where does the publisher come in? Because I think

one thing I did not understand when my first book came out was, you know, when Ellen Hildebrand

goes on a tour, of course her publisher is organizing and financing that, but in a lot of cases with smaller authors, it's either a combination of the author financing it themselves for some events or, you know, how the division works or in full. Like, yeah, you were saying publishers are hesitant to invest in book tours. And that was something that I fully didn't even understand as an author, and I bet most readers just assume, well, of course, like, that's the publisher. Yes, I think

everyone assumes if you see a tour list go up that, I mean, I would have too, that the publisher

“is paying for it. I think in my experience, and you can correct me if I'm wrong or you've heard”

something else. I think the publisher will invest in a tour. If one, they can see a track record where you can sell out events or you can sell enough books or two, you are an author with a major profile, you know, you're an Emily Henry. Well, interestingly, Emily Henry doesn't tour. She does not do events. Her first romance came out during COVID, and, you know, I think with her more recent book, she's maybe done one event, and it's, I think she usually does a virtual event, but she

doesn't tour. Yes, good point. So maybe, I think they would easily tour her, they would. Yes, oh, yeah, of course, of course. She could be like, I want to go on a 50-city tour and I would be like, I want to tour on Mars and they'd be like, and she'd sell it everyone. Maybe like, some of the big thriller authors, like Mary Kubica, Kubica, I don't know how either, but she just had a book

come out. Someone like that, I think they're always going to show up for. I think I have gotten

lucky because with my first publisher, Quirk, which is an independent publisher, they really invested in a tour. And so when it came to this deal with Little Brown, which is the big five publisher, I was able to say, hey, I know this might not be the case for all of your authors, but I have this track record of, you know, a 10-city tour and I sold out nine of them or whatever it was. And I think that goes a long way, but I still had to present that. Okay, so what I think I'm

hearing here is that for such about influence, your publisher planned and paid for that tour. Is that the most of it? I would say in both cases, the publisher paid for probably 80% of travel. Oh, wow. And I paid for the 20%. This is, though, not normal. I was going to say that very surprising time. I would like to just say that and I'm very, very, very, very grateful. But yeah, it's not normal.

And I think it's because, you know, Quirk, you know, they took a chance, basically. They took a chance,

putting money into this and it paid off. And I think then my agent and I were able to, you know, meet Little Brown and say, hey, I think this is really worth it and can make a big difference for the first month of sales, the first week of sales, both of which are very important. But yeah, not normal. And so was it you coming to the table saying, I think it makes sense for me to go to Raleigh, North Carolina, where you just didn't event. Because I have a community there,

or is it the case of the publisher saying, we think you should go here because this bookstore

“has like a vibrant community that you should get in front of. I think it's kind of a little of both”

for both of my books, I did just basic Instagram surveys where I said, where should I go? And I just scrolled through them and I took note of the places that were mentioned again and again. And again, so with each book and each tour, I've taken chances on those places the first time it was Chicago. And that had a great turnout because there's so many bottom paper listeners. And I think also we're in a unique position that I think people who listen to the podcast

won't attend these events. And I think that is a lot of why I'm able to sell out any event. And I'm so excited about that. But for this one, you know, a lot of people mentioned LA, a lot of people mentioned Raleigh. And so I don't have connections in either of those places really, but I was like, let's take a chance on those. And I think that it paid off, I think it worked out.

it's a smaller city where there's not as much of a podcast audience, you know,

“naturally there. And so I think it's, it's really like individual to the author.”

Also sometimes authors don't want to tour. Like it does very exhausting. And it's a lot of energy. And it's pretty vulnerable, you know, like some people and travel that much. And I love it. But there's something that feels very aspirational about it. To me, like when I think of the Barbie version of being an author, you know, she's on, she's on her book tour. And she's spotting her book at the airport. There's something about it that I know that that's not the main

piece of being an author. But at that in my head feels like that is a level to be unlocked or like to aspire to. Yeah. Sometimes when you're like going between the events and listening to music, your headphones on and you know, the book just came out and it feels so cool. But we were just talking about something else. Like there are a lot of things I think in publicity and marketing with books where the actual ROI on the thing is not necessarily as clear as like the optics of it.

You know, and I think a tour is something that optically always looks very exciting and flashy to

people. But doesn't necessarily for every author. Maybe even most authors directly correlate with

“sales. And I think that's why it's so hard to make the pitch for it as an author. Totally. But I do”

think that there's something to about the impact being bigger than in the room because of social media. So if people take a photo that they were at this event and share it or take a photo of the book, then their friends are wondering, well, who's this person or what's this book? So I do think it, you know, there's the marketing adage that it takes seven touch points to get somebody to buy something. And so, you know, it's like getting your touch points in. Yes. And also people bring

their friends to events. Totally. They buy books. So for me, it's something that's at least

at the station. I'm always going to be worth it. And I will, you know, I'm sure eventually I will

have a deal where that's, you know, where I will have a book where the publisher isn't able to provide as much support. And by the way, even if the publisher isn't paying for the travel,

“a lot of times they will still help with organizing the events. But I think for me, it will always”

be a priority because I do think there is such a value to it and just connecting with these people who have supported you is wonderful. And I find it very energizing and fun to you feel the same I love doing live events. It is so easy to forget both hosting the podcast that you and I are just sitting on Zoom right now. I'm wearing my pajamas still and we're looking at each other having a conversation. And it's really easy to forget that then thousands of people are part of it

too and are going to listen. So being able to have a conversation and see people in the audience and hear them react in real time is so special. And at the same time, you know, writing a book, you're sitting in your sweatpants, looking at your laptop, reading the same sentence over and over, it's really easy to forget that that then becomes a communal experience that other people read those sentences and have their own experience of it. So I really love it. I am an extrovert and

being in those settings. I find really energy-giving. It also I think is just so nice to be able to see people that you've talked to on Instagram and just to say thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for doing this and to actually be saying it to a person face-to-face instead of just as a mass Instagram message or whatever. But yeah, I feel really grateful that I've been able to do events and I will hopefully keep pitching them until the bookstores are like no. And I should

also say it is not the easiest thing always to get books or to agree. Yeah, a lot of books come

up every week. So you're competing especially in major markets, you're competing for there's only five nights a week and there's certainly usually book events are on week nights and there's way more than five books coming out. So who's going to get the strand this week? Yeah, and they have to calculate, like, well, how many books should we buy and are we going to have to return them? And you know, it's a risk for the bookstores as well and it's a lot of work on their part, too. And so

I've definitely still had circumstances where I've pitched stores and they've said no. And that's real. Okay, wait, I have more, I have a lot more questions about this. Oh, wow, sorry. How do you find a conversation partner? Or how do you pick a conversation partner for an event? And especially like I'm thinking of a city, you were saying like LA or Raleigh where you don't have any connection. For most cities, I just try to think of someone I know there. Okay, who is

involved in the book community in some way, a writer, a podcast or an author. Usually, I can think of

there was a bunch of people who responded with different authors and I ended up connecting with this author whose name is Kate Hash, who did a wonderful job for a conversation and was so glad to meet her. Yeah, it's kind of just like it's literally blurbing. It's just like an email and like, hey,

“I know you're probably really busy and I'm sorry to bother you, but what do you want to do this?”

Do you have a strategy or is it? I mean, I've only done two book events. So I don't, I'm not an expert in any case. Grace did my one in New York City and then Laura Hankin, who is both a friend and an author I really love, did my event in DC. It's hard. I mean, I, I was going to do one in Portland when I was on the West Coast and I only knew two people. And once they were both busy, I was like, I don't have the wear with all to try to find someone else, you know, because you're,

because the new city like that where you don't have an established network, you're taking a chance that people will show up. Like, you know, they're about on paper listeners who said they would,

but you never know. And then, then you would have to take a chance on a conversation partner and

imagine if you have a conversation partner, you don't know and then no one shows up. Like, there's just a lot of like, you're like making a lot of bets with the tour stops. Yeah. And then it's also a decent amount of work to be a conversation partner. I don't know how other people approach it, but I always, I always make sure to read the book and fall, even though 99% of time you're not talking about anything spoilery. So theoretically, you could just read the first few chapters. But yeah,

I always read the book and I always try to be really thoughtful about coming up with questions, both in terms of like, what will be interesting for the audience and like, what might the author want to get across? And in case it wasn't abundantly clear, nobody gets paid for this. Like, the author isn't getting paid to be there. The conversation partner isn't getting paid to be there. Like, it's like, it's literary citizenship of, I'm doing this for an author because I hope someday

an author will do this for me. The same is like the power of economy. Exactly. Yeah, it is work. You ask great questions, by the way. Well, thank you. It's a big ask to ask somebody to be your conversation partner, especially somebody you don't know. Please put in 10 hours to read my book and then another few hours to come up with questions and then show up the night of and be there

“and be showered and, you know, it's labor. Yeah, it is. And that's why when I haven't been asked”

that often, but when people do ask me, I try to make a point to say us because it's so scary to be like,

who is going to join me at this thing? And yeah, I'm always so appreciative of people who

help me out, especially like you, you were moving that day. So I was like, thank you. It's a incredible beat. You were saying earlier about feeling like you black out when you do events sometimes. And that night, so people were like, you did a great job. And I was like, I could not tell you one single thing I said or thought, like, thank God I had printed questions. I like, I had no coherent thoughts. My body was there. But my brain was all caught out. You did great. Do you get nervous?

I did the first time I didn't this time. Really. Which was an interesting change. I think I'm mostly get excited. I get nervous if I don't know how many people are showing up. Okay. So the nerves are before the event in the lead, but not like when you're in the wings. Yeah, because the idea that, you know, like, 10 people will be there. That's wonderful. 10 people want to show up. But like I said, it is so much that the book stores risking. It's so much that the publisher is risking.

Like you just really want to do well. You know, you really want to like not let anyone down. That's involved. And there's a lot of people involved. So I like when I know how many people are going to

each of them. I always check in with the book stores. I try to have a good idea that. But for the

“conversation, I enjoy it mostly now. I used to get nervous. You don't get nervous, right?”

I got extremely nervous. I don't get nervous to do other peoples. Like when I am being your conversation partner for instance, I was not nervous at all. Yeah, there's never been a case where I've been the conversation partner and I've been nervous. But I, I got extremely nervous for both of the events I did because I, I just want to, to please people. And I, you know, I just want to do a good job. And so I remember having like extremely nervous butterflies

before both of the events I did for the Christmas Orphan's Club. Yeah, it is scary. I also, I don't know if you feel this way too, but I get more nervous when I have friends or family in the audience. For some reason, I get, I get more, oh my gosh, I get more self-conscious. Because, you know, I find that comforting is the laugh or clap even if I'm being an idiot. Like they have to mind being entertained even if they're not. Yeah. That's interesting. That's, that's a good

way to look at it. Okay. My last book event question for you is after having done 10. How many of did you do this month? I think seven seven eight seven or eight. Do you have any theories on

partner, it's a bit easier. Or if they have experience doing those kinds of events, one or the

“other. I think it helps just because it feels a lot more natural. But also like, no one's thinking”

about it as much as you are probably. I don't know. I mean, I think we're so spoiled that we have the audience that we do. You know, and I think it's just, it's a little bit different to have that built-in listenership and know people will show up because maybe they don't like the book but they like the podcast or something like that, which a lot of others don't have that benefit.

What do you think? I think as an audience member, I always enjoy events the most where the

author and the conversation partner have some type of history outside of the event. So like, sometimes you'll see an author getting interviewed by their editor. And so, you know, that person has inside scoop and knows interesting questions to ask because the thing that's really hard about these events is that you can't really talk about spoilers. I found it actually incredibly challenging more so than any other event I've done to talk about your book because, you know, what constitutes

a spoiler? How much can you talk about? And that's where a lot of the interesting meet lies. And so, I find it really interesting when either the two people are friends or they they worked together in some professional capacity because I just feel like they have more interesting questions, directions to go versus just, you know, trying to keep it to the background of the writing process and, you know, kind of the setup of the book. Yeah, I agree with you.

But obviously, you know, especially if you're doing a large tour or going to places where

you don't know somebody that's not always realistic to have, somebody with you. Like, I've

always thought it would be really interesting if at some point we did a book tour together and

“we reach other's conversation partner in every city because I think that could be really interesting”

or like, yeah, I don't know, like if Ellen and Tim Talks books who's like her work has been like went on tour together and he was her conversation partner everywhere. I mean, I'm sure the conversation would be similar and every stop. But theoretically, they're not being televised and nobody's seeing more than one event, but I'm like, oh, that would be interesting. Yeah, I would love that. I mean, I think also a lot has to do with the audience. And like, I'm sure you had the same

thing at your events. Like, I find that bad on paper listeners are readers, whatever, all of the

above just have the best questions. And it just feels, yeah, you know, the experience of not knowing what someone's going to ask and then being surprised by it is just so engaging. I think either as an audience member or the person being asked. And so, you know, if you're in the audience of a book event, you're like, I don't know if I should raise my hand, please do because I promise you everyone is curious to hear what you are going to say and I certainly am. And I think that

makes a huge difference. Well, thank you for indulging me and talking about the inner workings of book events. Let's take an ad break and then I want to hear your next thing. This episode is sponsored by Masterclass. One of my goals this year is to really lean into

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Tell me what your day looks like. The rules are that it has to help you relax, it has to

“restore something in you, and it has to be completely solo. Okay, I'm planning for me, I'm planning”

for you, planning for you. Okay, so I would obviously not set an alarm and sleep until my body naturally woke up. And then I would probably go get a bagel for breakfast. Like, I would pop out of the house, get some steps, get a bagel and coffee, but come back and eat it at home, and you know, have some laptop time, read some newsletters, like scroll on my phone, I'm slow to wake up, so you know, take my time. Then I would shower and get dressed, and I would probably want to plan

some type of out of the house activity that felt like too much of a production for a normal day. So either something that's like a little far away or something that's like time consuming or whatever. So in this weather, I would probably probably not an outdoor thing. So I would probably

like go to a museum. I mean, the Met's always a great bet, but I would also like cruise to see

“what exhibits were on, if there was any exhibit I was interested in seeing, if I wanted to”

go to the Google Guggenheim or, well, my, you know, whatever. So I would go to a museum, and then I would take myself out for lunch. I would have like a fancy lady lunch, like we're having a glass of wine at lunch, we're going to like a fancy restaurant. I don't know the upper east side that well, which is where all the museums are, but like, you know, maybe we're going to La Vuda Or, I don't know if they're open for lunch, but, you know, we're going somewhere special for lunch.

We're having a glass of wine, and we're getting two courses. We're getting, in my case, probably soup in an entree, but also a satellite in an entree or a shrimp cocktail in an entree. Like, we're going for it. You know, we're not just having a quick lunch. I would ideally have a physical book with me during that. So I can also like, we're stretching lunch. We're not rushing it. I'm leisurely lunch. And then I think I'd like to maybe pop into some shops. I'd like do a

little bit of shopping. See if there's something I want to treat myself to. So chop around a little bit. Then I'd come home because I think that I want to relax, like I don't want to do too much. So I'd come home for naps, sitting, relaxing time. And then maybe I would either, if there was a show that I really wanted to watch, maybe I'd save it and do that. At some point, I was going to stay going to the movies, but I don't think I want to leave my house again if the goal of this

is relaxing. So, you know, I guess I could go to the movies instead of the museum if I wanted, but I think I'm staying home. And I'm like, hopefully there's a show that I've been really wanting

“to see or like, I've saved a few episodes of something to watch. Yeah, I think that's what I would do.”

He didn't rival. Just reheat the rivalry. Reheat it. But fun, fluffy. Yeah, what are you thinking? So my plan currently. Yeah, is you got to go well. Like, I'm my day for you would be really different than what I would plan. Yeah, I will be going to go well. Wake up, have coffee in bed. This is my new favorite thing in the winter. You love your best to, I love my bed. I don't know, it's the same mattress. It's the same bedding. So something about the bed frame that's just

really transformed my life. I love my bed. I look out at my trees. There's a little sliver of the river. It's my favorite thing ever. But okay, reading and bed for as long as possible. First, I find it the most relaxing thing ever. Then I have notes. Then I am going to make breakfast at home,

which always makes me feel like I just have my shit together. I don't just something about making

a balance breakfast that's delicious at home. I just entered the day feeling like, okay, I fed myself. I save money, success. I wonder if this will change for me, but historically making breakfast at home, like a complicated breakfast at home is my absolute nightmare because why would I want to start the day creating that many dishes? Yeah. And so I wonder if that will change because you're like, it's so decadent to cook breakfast at home. And in my head, I'm like, oh, that's like the opposite

of how I feel. I usually just make toast eggs and I have some berries. And it's not not very complicated or messy for the most part. But it's just something about like, it's more just the act of fueling myself in a way that's also saving me money. Okay, it's just that makes me feel because if not, I tend to not eat until lunch and then I get angry and then I don't eat things that like I really want to eat. It's just kind of whatever is around and I'm out and about anyway. So I'm

going to do that. Then I'm going to put on a cute outfit of some kind, something that is comfortable that I've been looking forward to wearing. I don't know what this is yet, but

coffee if I'm feeling thrifty, which I really should be after being on tour because the amount of

money I have spent eating out is obscene. Or if I want to treat myself, I'll treat myself to one out and about drive through ice coffee of some kind. And then I am going to go to goodwill, but I'm going to go with a plan. I'm going to go around my house before I go and make a list of things that I need. For example, I don't like our toothbrush holder. I don't like it. So I want to get a new toothbrush holder. I want to get some dishes that can be like interesting

to hold my jewelry because right now it's just chaos on my dresser. So those are two things, but I know there's other things I need. So I'm going to make a list. It's going to be an intentional

goodwill trip. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Then I will also go somewhere and treat myself to lunch.

What restaurant this will be? I don't know, but I'm going to get a chicken Caesar wrap was crispy chicken, fries, and Diet Coke, of course. If I were you, I know that this is quite far, but I would be going to run back bagels to get a buffalo chicken wrap. I know, you know, I had a buffalo chicken wrap at a pen, one of the many times I was at Moynihan, put a couple weeks ago. And it was kind of disappointing. So maybe I need to make up for it. Maybe. I mean, follow your

heart. Have a Caesar wrap by all means, but I just, I dream about that buffalo chicken wrap. I do love a buffalo chicken wrap as well. So maybe I would do that. It's not that far away. It's like an hour and I drive an hour all the time here. So there's that. And then I want to come home, get into some, like workout clothes. I want to organize something. I want to clean out a drawer. Come on. I want to organize my now. My closet. Come here. Drive down.

Bring me a buffalo chicken wrap and organize my by haul closet. Yes, this sounds like my my restorative. Yeah, just trying to give you what you want. I just want to get rid of stuff. I want to streamline stuff. I tend to just hold on to things for too long. I just want to, if it's not working, I want to get rid of it and find something better.

“Great. That's that's why playing it will make me feel good. Then I want to go in a long walk”

with Winnie in the cold. Maybe listening to a good podcast. Uh-huh. And then I want to come home and have some pasta and watch a movie I've been meaning to watch forever and get in bed by 7.30 p.m. Love this for you. This sounds absolutely restorative day. That is my goal. Anyway, thank you for listening to my spiel. I feel relaxed just imagining this to be honest. Yeah, it sounds great. Well, tell me about your next thing. Okay, my last thing. I mentioned a few

episodes ago that I've started watching the traders, the US version of it. I'm really enjoying it. And it has spawned a lot of conversations in my traders group chat about who our dreamcast would be. And so I did ask you an advance so that you could prep. If you had to pick five people, who plausibly would go on traders, you can pick Taylor Swift. Who would five people be in your dreamcast? Also do you watch traders? Have you ever? I watched one season and then I kind

of give up. It didn't do it for me for some reason. But maybe I just need time to sort of, I don't know,

but it will tell me the five people who would get you to tune in. Okay, so first of all,

this is someone that may have already been on traders. That's fine. Jojo Cua. I thought about that

“too, because she would be so annoying. And I think everyone could really unify against her,”

that the Michael Rappaport, the season where everyone hated Michael Rappaport, like I do feel like Jojo Cua has a similar galvanizing quality. She interests me. I don't know, like I just every time I see her do something, I'm very perplexed by it. And I just think, yeah, okay, I'm curious here. Okay, the next one is Rachel Zowe, who is on the new season of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and is crushing it. I do say, if she is doing very well. And I think she would be excellent on this.

The next one is Elona Mayor. Mm-hmm, a lot of Mark. I think it's Mark. Well, I don't know. I'm suggesting you when I'm not confident. So who the fuck am I doing? We're probably both wrong. We're probably both wrong. I think she could be great. Oh, I think she would be great. I think it's actually surprising to me that she has not been on. And I wonder if it's because scheduling wise with rugby, she can't or like, there's been conversations. I have to imagine. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure.

She has a podcast right now with Abby Womback and Billie Jean King. I also think Billie Jean King

“would be an excellent person in the Trader's castle. Oh, I think you're right. I think you're right for”

sure. This next one is not someone that actually would go on, but I said, Boburna. I don't think that's

the brief. Maybe I just want more content from Boburna. Like, where is he? Where does he go? Come back.

“Alternatively, I think Kylie Kelsey will be great. I know we have Donna or we had Donna. But I have”

watched enough clips of Kylie Kelsey. I quite like her. Yeah, I think she's cool. So yeah, a little different than Boburna. But also anyone from 90 day fiance, I would watch. I don't know how that crossover has not happened. Maybe it's a network thing. But like, I'm actually wondering surprised that no sister wives were on your list. I was just about to say Cody. Yeah. Cody would be the micrograph report of I he did, whatever that show is, SWAT team combat. I don't know. And he

kind of became the hated one. Anyway, that's my lineup. Tell me. Okay. Number one dream cast person would be Katia from Rapals Drag Race. I think they're an agent of chaos and would be so funny on this show. I think the looks would be so good. I think the what do you call those those little interviews confessional. The confessionals would be so funny. Like at like just don't know why she hasn't

been on it. The second is I guess more of an archetype of person that I really want. And I have

suggestions for who it is. But I'm kind of indifferent to like who lovely old man who doesn't know

“who any of the other people are in the castle. Like I think that that's kind of what they were trying”

to do with Donna Kelsey. But she got eliminated too quickly. And she didn't really give that. But like, okay, my dream for this would be Tim Gunn from Project Runway. Oh, that's a good one. I think he would be great. But alternatively, if he doesn't want to do it, it could be like Bill Nye. It could be Al Roker. Oh, Al Roker. Yeah. Yes. Like a kind of older guy who has no clue who any of these people are. Yep. Al Roker, Donna. Yep. I want to get Hillary Duffin there. Oh, she's definitely been

offered it. She must have been. I think that Hillary Duff is having a runna song. She's going on this tour. I think that this would be great for her. I, as a long-term fan, think it would be really fun. Maybe they could get Lizzie McGuire, like the cartoon Lizzie McGuire to be in some of her confessionals, too. I don't know. I just think there's a lot of fun to play with there. When she's back from her world tour, she's doing it. Yeah. My fourth one comes with a lot of

“caveats. And I actually don't think we can have nice things. I don't think we can do this. I think”

Monica Lewinsky should go on it. I think we've got a very healing for the timeline. If we all supported her and didn't say a bad thing about her, then we just got to see her making friends and like doing this silly thing and giving her a lovely public experience. Do you think that would be healing? I do think it would be healing. But she's quite busy. I mean, she has a very popular podcast.

She does. She does. She's always doing something. But yeah, that's, that's, that's. And she's

so. I every time I see clips of her podcast, she's so good at it. She's so thoughtful. I think she could be good at the game. It would be fun to see her get to wear fun outfits. Like I really like that. But we could not internet discourse her. Like she is excluded from, we are not coming to her body. We are not commenting on if she's in idiot. We are, we are, we are not commenting. Yeah, that's fair. Do you think that traders is basically like you're not quite good enough to be

invited on dancing with the stars. So we've offered you traders. Like, is that kind of vibe? I don't know. I think that it is equally big, culturally for different sets of people and some overlap who probably watch both. I don't know. Okay, my last one. And then I have a wild card that

would never happen. But I want to happen so badly that I think is realistic is Alex McCord from

the very early seasons of Real Housewives of New York. I would just like to know what she's up to. Also, Alex McCord, I think would be great. She certainly has that Real Housewives get an a fight with people background that I think makes for good television. I know she was on Andy Cohen's podcast or radio show recently and that sparked us. Okay, in my wild card, which I don't think would happen for a myriad of reasons is I think the ultimate traders cast member would be gritty,

the Philly mascot. Picture it. He does not speak the entire time. He's just standing in the kitchen. Like, he's standing around. He's like in scenes. He does not speak. And then every time at the round table, he does vote. He doesn't give. He doesn't tell you any reason why. I don't know if he's good at it or bad at it. But he, okay, he votes. Okay, I support this. I think this could work. It would, first of all, the looks would be great. Second of all, what a chaotic element to add to

this show. Yes, a little unfair because, you know, it's hard to really make heads or tails of

Kylie Kelsey. Yeah. I would like it if gritty also was like giving Alan a run for his money on fashion. Yes, good. Gritty and a cape. Yeah. Yep. Thank you for participating in this despite not watching

the show. Tell me your final thing. My third thing is that I want to know how you are approaching

this new book book three. You're going to start differently. Craftwise or mentally, spiritually. Yep, emotionally. Yep. Do you feel like you're going into it a completely different writer in some ways? And if so, how? Yes, I intend to. Will that bear out who knows? The first thing I would like to do is I would like to take in my head two weeks of a research and planning phase. And I

“attempted to do this with my previous book and then I got too excited and I started writing and I think”

it might be helpful if I made an outline and tried to think through a bunch of things before hand as opposed to flying by the seat of my pants. So I'd like to get plotting a try. I'd also like to, you know, maybe do some, I think character profiles sounds too intense for what I plan, but like really spend some time thinking about the characters before I start writing. And then I also have a stack of books that I would like to read as research that are either in the genre or on topics that

have to do with the book. And there's at least one documentary, maybe two that I want to watch. So basically have two research weeks or however long it takes, maybe it's longer. I've seen a lot of note cards up on walls like I'm, yeah, I want to give that some room to breathe. And then the other thing is I really, really, really want to work on being consistent. So consistency was really hard for me during my second book. And then I really want to work on my attitude and giving myself

grace and knowing that it's not always going to be good or perfect what I'm going to get there.

“And I think that's something I've learned and I think that's something I can give to myself,”

but I really want to keep that top of mind. I already, last week was chatting with a friend. And she was asking what my plan was if I had any deadlines or anything and I said, well, I'd really like to finish a first draft by June. And then I can spend the summer reworking that draft. So I basically have like a second draft or like a solid draft before my new book comes out, which we can talk about. Hopefully next week, what's going to come out in the

fall? And she was like, I'm so impressed by how fast you write and like that you can

you can pump out a first draft by June. And I was like to be clear, I've never written this fast.

And I don't know why this is my plan or expectation. Like, I was like, this makes no sense. The fastest I've ever written a first draft is nine months. So I do not know why I'm like, yes, I'd like to write it in three. So yeah, I need to check that impulse and be like, no, like, it'll take how long. You're going to be doing in a new office. I am, which may listen,

“it may supercharge you. It may, but I think I need to, the plan should not be that I want to finish”

the draft by June. We need to throw that out the window. Okay. Because I don't want to give myself anything to beat myself up with. So that's good advice. Yeah, and I'm also have every intention of not doing dual timelines. I've done two books that are dual timeline. And especially with the first one, it presented with the Christmas often stuff. It presented its own challenge because all of the past were at Christmas. So it was very hard to get things in because you don't work

on Christmas. You don't, there are only certain things you do on Christmas. So it was very hard to get well-rounded pictures of their lives. The timeline part was not as hard. This book and having drafts that changed so heavily in the dual timeline, I was like, why have I chosen this? So yeah, from a craft perspective, it will not be dual timeline. I support that choice. It is not easy at all. I know this was a question for me, but you are working on a third book. You're like halfway

grew. You have a solid first half. Have you done anything differently? Do you plan to do anything differently and do you have any advice for me that you're like, I changed this in this was helpful? Oh, no, I don't, I gosh, I don't think I have any advice, but I haven't touched it since the end of November. And I'm like chomping at the bit to get back to it, even though I'm a little scared. What a good feeling. Yes, very, very good. I cannot wait. I cannot wait to enter spring

just being eyeballs deep in this, but I don't know. I think one thing that I'm thinking of differently with this is I fully plan on becoming completely obsessed. Like, I want to go to a level

in in every single possible way. I want to work harder than I've ever worked. I don't know if this

is just a thing of like having just launched a book and now I'm in the phase of like, I have to do better. I want to do better. I must do better. But, and that sounds kind of harsh, but I don't know, I just feel this like fire where I'm like, I am going all in in every single way possible. I'm

“giving it everything I have. Do you feel like that was not the case with prior books? I think it was.”

It's just, I had so much pressure and fear and what's going to happen and I still feel that, but in a way, having launched two books, like, you're kind of free of it in some ways. You know, in some ways, there's more pressure, but in some ways, it's like, I've had two books, things have gone really well, things have gone not as I expected, and I survived. And then here doing it again, so I might as well just, you know, go in. I might as well just come in. So I don't disagree

with you, but I will also say, I think it's really hard to sustain that level of obsession through a full drafting process, you know, meaning like, yes, not one draft, but through the entire process of like three years, like there were definitely times with both books, and I was like, I think this is stupid and like, what have I done? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I'm going to get there.

“You're totally right. I think I just, like, I want to give myself a level of”

creative freedom that I don't know if I necessarily have gotten to before because I've never been

confident enough in some ways. Okay. So I want to just be like, what if I just let myself go a little, you know, what if I just, I don't know, it's it's weird. It's a mental thing more than a, I know exactly the steps I'm going to get there. When it's more just like, what if I just dove in fully, and I let myself do whatever. Yeah, which, again, it's not exactly practical, but yeah, I'm just ready to be come obsessed with something and then to hate it eventually, you know,

and then to be like the next thing will be better. I mean, I feel like I'm very excited about the fear of the firehorse and we're both going to just like get so into writing these new books.

Yeah, me too. I'm thrilled. Well, are those all the things? Those are all the things.

Should we take an outbreak and then get in some end matter? Yes. I am so excited that we have skims as an advertiser because if you've been listening for a while,

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specifically, I really like the fits everybody T-shirt bras. It's the only bra I wear. I just bought a new version of it. I bought the strapless version. I bought a push-up version. I only want to wear this bra. I cannot sing its praises enough. It's held up beautifully. And it's just the most comfortable. Shop skims fits everybody collection at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you. Select podcast

in the post purchase survey and be sure to select baton paper in the drop-down menu that follows. What are you obsessed with? I have been falling down on the job. I cannot believe that I have not talked about my dustbuster yet because I am so obsessed with my dustbuster. Do you dustbuster? Can you explain what's the difference between a vacuum and a dustbuster? Yeah, it's like a small handheld vacuum. Do you want me to go get us a vacuum?

Okay. To you? No, I know what you mean. Okay. So, you know, it's in a cabinet right here. It's easier to take out than a vacuum. And my vacuum is I have a canister vacuum so it has like the big tank and then it has like the hose and the thing. So it's like it's annoying to like take out. I bought this dustbuster because they were redoing the floors of the apartment below me and it was kicking up so much dust every day. And I was like, I need something that's

easier than my vacuum to be able to like deal with this daily. So I got the brand is I think it's Rio B. I'm not sure how you pronounce it. It's RYOBI. I picked it because I think wirecutter recommended it. It's kind of annoying that the battery pack is sold separately. Although I did just by a handheld standard as I was painting my office. And it's the same brand so they can share the battery. So I

on multiple products. But anyway, I do not know how I did not have a dustbuster for so long.

“I take this thing out. I mean, I think it's a little different because I've been moving.”

I take this thing out twice a day. Wow. I'm dustbusting all the time. That's I should get a new one. We have one, but I don't even know where it is. And I didn't like it that much. So maybe I'll copy you. Oh my god. I love it. And I was like was I living and filled before because like I use it all the time. Like also I was like before we are in the middle of recording. I had to go to my office to get new batteries from my recorder. And I noticed that there were like some feathers on the ground.

And I think like came out of a pillow or whatever. And I was like, can't wait to dustbust that one we're done. It's strangely satisfying. So satisfying. And also I ended up getting one of those stick vacuums. It wasn't the dice in one. It was like a knock-off dice in one. And it was such a mistake

because it was so weak. It like didn't have any power. And this is so much more powerful than my

old knock-off dice in. I have a lot of thoughts about vacuums, but that could be for another day. Bring it to us next time. Yeah. Well, because they too, Lord knows I am a dustbuster evangelist. I could go a whole episode between the dustbuster, your new house, my new kitchen. It's going to be a really home-focused 2026 on Boundham Papers. I hope you all are ready. What is your obsession? My obsession is Tom Hiddlestiss. Okay. This is so ironic. Have you watched the night manager? Is that

why? So it's two parts. The first one is that I watched the second season of the night manager while I was traveling. And I loved the first season. And I thought the second season was quite good. Have you watched both seasons or one or the other? I watched it in the last like month. Grace was watching it and was raving about it. And when I saw her like two weeks ago, she was like,

“you'll like this. You need to watch this. And so I did. I strongly liked the first season”

better than the second season. Yeah. Me too. I kind of lost interest towards the second part of the second season. But I still enjoyed it. It was like entertaining plane watching. Sure. But the first season I thought was better as well. It was also very wild to see because there was 10 years in between the two seasons. And so to see, and I watched them consecutively, to see Tom Hiddlestiss and Hugh Laurie who are kind of the leads like age 10 years

in my in my living room. I was like, oh wow. Yeah. I haven't watched the first season of many years.

But I imagine it's jarring. I've always kind of found Tom Hiddlestiss in so charming. It just

always, but I saw a video recently. A real. Have you seen this clip of him on some talk show like 10 years ago dancing? No. It sounds ridiculous. It came up on my feed. I've been on social media not stop of during tour. I could kind of allow myself and need to cut back. But I was watching a lot of reals and this real popped up. And I must have watched it like five consecutive times. What time was dancing? So adorable. It's like silly dancing, real dancing. It's like good,

but silly at the same time hold on. I'm going to find the clip. And the first comment was someone being like, I watched this 10 times. And I was like, it's not just me. Okay.

“I don't know what it is all on. I'll text it to you. There's something about you have to”

watch with the music. But there's something about it that it's just so charming. It makes me giggles so much. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. It's like sort of nerdy. Sort of good. It's like he looks so happy. Oh, this was not the type of dancing I was picturing. You have to watch it before volume. But it's something about, oh wow. He's bustling a move. I know, but there's he gives his look to the talk show host before he dances. And there's

something about it that just makes me getty. I don't know what it is. I have no idea. But I love it.

And I just, I've always found him so charming. And I continue to. So anyway. Wow.

Well, put it in the show notes. Important. Yeah. The next next to the dustbuster. We all want to be in topics here. All your needs right here on Battle of Paper. Well, what have you read? Oh, so I read this book called Bad Words by Rianach Robinson, which doesn't come out until October. But this book is getting so much buzz and so much hype. And I went to an event for a few weeks ago. And I had an advanced copy. And I was like,

I need to see what all the fuss is about. So this is an adult debut. So the author is a YA author. And has written many books. But this is her first adult novel. It's a romance. It's about a author who has had his book Pand by a book critic twice, the same book critic twice. And they kind of are in a social media feud. And it is enemies to lovers. So they end up falling in love.

I feel like either they're not enemies enough. And I'm like, I don't believe this or they're

“two enemies. And I don't want them to get together. But I feel like because it was over something”

topical. Like, she wasn't mean to him. She disliked his book. I don't know. It felt believable. And it was, it was very enemies to lovers. It was very good. I wonder how it will do

because the romance doesn't come in until the second half of the book. So it's not quite

following a standard romance template. Like the first half is enemies. And there's an email section in the middle of the book that I found so charming. It has a lot to say about book criticism and the publishing industry. I'm ready for this. This is me. I'm ready for this book. The collapse of magazine journalism. I'm really excited to see how

this is received. I mean, God knows it has so much buzz. Oh, my God. Yeah. Like this has been on my

radar ever since the deal came out because I saw the publisher's marketplace announcement. I was

“like holy crap. And then Emily Henry talked about it somewhere. Yeah. And I think my viral. It's”

about the publishing industry, which I love. I love that the romance is later. I feel like I love that kind of romance. Also, you said email emails back and forth. Yeah. And I know you didn't

like romantic comedy, but definitely one of my favorite romances. And I love that because of the

email. I was giddy over this email correspondent. Oh, my God. I am really excited for this book. Like I'm really, really excited. I have a hard copy next time I see you. I can give it to you. Oh, I would love that. I'm so curious. It's actually sitting on my shelf with little one because it was the last book I was reading in my old apartment. And then I had, I left a copy of little one out because I didn't know if I wanted to have it for pictures. And so I have very few

books unpacked, but it's on a shelf with that. And best offer wins because I needed it for photos for book club. Hopefully. Thank you. And such good company. Have you read anything? I have been reading and I thought I was going to finish a couple things, but I didn't. So okay, nothing for me. But if you would like to read my book, but a one, we are discussing it next week, for a spoiler filled book club. Oh, I'm so excited. I have this in the conversation that I've been

looking forward to. Not that I wasn't looking forward to your launch event, but like I want to get

“into it. Yeah, we're going to go there. So if you want to read, it's available all the places,”

listen to it, read it, whatever you want. I mean, that's the same thing, but you know, audio book, physical book, Kindle, all the ways. I don't know what I'm saying anymore. This has been a really long episode. Anyway, I'm not going to give you the pitch again for that because I've been talking so long, but read it, join us. I can't wait. And if you want to talk to us about any of the things we have discussed today, you can join us in the Facebook group under bound on paper podcast,

in our BFF group, which is under bound on paper podcast or on Instagram under bound on paper podcast. I am on Instagram and sub-sac at Olivia Mentor and you can buy my book wherever you get books.