The Get Up Kids with Arielle Gordon

What's with this band anyway?

I don't get it, can you please explain? Wait, like bands playing? [MUSIC] Ever this band in my life?

“Oh, you haven't, let's look out really wide.”

Yeah, I love this song. Oh, I don't know that one. Dance play, dance play, dance play. I really like this band, whatever, I'm their biggest fan. Dance play, dance play, dance play, dance play.

Dance play. [MUSIC] Hello and welcome to Band's Plane. I am your host, Yossie's Holly. This is a show where we invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist.

Today's episode is about the Get Up Kids. My guest today is a steamed music journalist, and I'll say it. Email expert, Ariel Gordon, welcome to the program, Ariel. Hello, thanks, Yossie. Big shoes to feel for you.

Yeah, big emo shoes. Big emo shoes, clown shoes, but you set the band. He's a big, checkered band, he's a pretty refill. That's the way the email that I'm not familiar with, which is why we brought you her to educate and edifying happy to do so.

How are you?

“I'm doing great, I love the Get Up Kids, that's the thing about me that you should all”

know. Yes, I was listening to your Jimmy World episode and you were talking about, I believe, I don't want to put words into it, a college lover, excuse me, you know what, let's just get it out of the way. Let's get it right out of the way, a college lover that makes me sound so like French.

No, absolutely, here's how I found the Get Up Kids, and then I want to ask you how you found the Get Up Kids, can't the city of Missouri's finest.

Here I was, bread and I'm going to show you my first year at UC Santa Barbara, ready to,

you know, embrace all that life has to offer, and I'm in my dorm, Tropicana Gardens, may it rest in peace, I don't think it exists anymore, and I'm wearing my diesel mini skirt, and my diesel slip on shoes that I had a little fur in them. You guys weren't there. I had a probably a Puma wristband on.

Cool. Again, this was another time. My hair is flat ironed, and I'm just like, let's draw a debut for era, and I made a guy in the dorm pretty early on named Josh, and I said this on the Jimmy World Pod, and I'll say it again, I would absolutely love to doxin, but I cannot for the life

of me remember his last name. To be fair, his name might not even be Josh, but Josh is a pretty rare name, so I tried to google Josh, Tropicana Garden, and Josh, get up kids abuse search, can't he, he's not here anyway, so Josh East Coast, like kind of preppy, we have a little vibe, he might be into his dorm room, also in Tropicana Garden.

That's right, he's just simply downstairs, and down the hall, and he puts on get-up kids. That's right, a bunch of go-all on, if you love, and I was like, okay, the mood is absolutely

that, also I was like, this is amazing, because I had sort of checked out, maybe, this

is like, I started transitioning at that point, I was like still really in a punk and stuff, but I love Jimmy World, I just wasn't really aware of got-up kids, and I was blown away, and then we had a moment, you know, as you do, young 18 year olds, and then at the

“end he was like, don't tell anyone, okay, about the got-up kids?”

No, I think he would have been fine for many of the got-up kids about what had transpired between us. Oh my god. And I was like, boy, yeah, I was going to, why would I tell anyone, and then I had 13 years of therapy.

Well, since then, just kidding, but I'm not just kidding. Anyways, Josh can rotten hell, but thankfully, he brought me the got-up kids, and I was texting named drop with Rich Egan of vagrant records fame to get some, I was doing journalism if you guys will, like, boots on the ground, and he said he had also heard that story, and he said, fuck, Josh, and he probably didn't even really actually like the got-up kids,

he's probably just using it to ensnare a vulnerable young woman. And look at you now, and look at us talking, you know, well, you think Josh is still talking about the got-up kids probably, Josh is probably working in, like, finance, like, destroying, like, emerging nations or something. Yeah, true, true.

How did you come to the got-up kids around? So, we were talking that I'm a 30, and my 30s, 30, and we were exactly 30s, so you've just entered your 30s. And so, I actually came into life the same year the got-up kids did, and it's been beautiful to watch our stars rise together, and, um, so yeah, I was, uh, 95, so I can't say

anyway. Like, kiss from a rose.

“That's the song I was born to, allegedly, and that's what I'm cool.”

They've lifted me on my path, um, but, so, I found them frankly, if I could be so honest

with you, from fallaboy. I believe that fallaboy, either in their Wikipedia page if that existed at the time, or in an interview, was like who your influence is, and it's like, and there's just a list, you know, amazing bands. And you were like, I don't know, it's like on my way.

Yeah, you know. That's actually so great, because I know that some people will probably be like, oh, we want to hear, you know, from people that were really like there, and it's like, that's fine, and I can get into that. But like, I'm actually very interested in what the got-up kids wrote, because they

are one of those unique bands that I don't want to say the velvet underground of emo

in some ways, but not know, like, a very specific strain of emo comes directly from

the womb, the get-up kids, and to be frank, exceeded them vastly in terms of commercial success. Yeah, I say everyone who was into something right home about put 12 pixelized on their next records, and I said more, so yeah, you said actually more. Yeah.

“But no, I think, yeah, I was going to ask you, I was actually going through like R/emo as”

one wants to do, just to be like, what are they talking about there? Yeah. And there's what are they in 2026, what's up at R/emo? And it's more lively than ever, but I think like post-Thaisalic was making me tear up this morning as I was drinking my coffee, which is somebody being like, hey, for anybody

who was like a teenager in the 90's, like, what was it like to like, no, or did you know you were like in the middle of the most special time in music? It's like how I feel about like LA in the 70's or like 90's Seattle, they're like, what was the war tour like in 1994, I'll tell you a bit about was there, so if you can talk about it.

So yeah, I always find it interesting that Paris in the 20's.

Yeah, so that's my introduction, and then I went back and listened after I, you know, I wasn't listening at the moment, but then I put away emo for a bit, but then around 2017, when all that we were when we were young stuff was boiling back to the show for this, that was kind of like, let me check these guys out again and see if this particular band holds up and I would say, even better than I remember, it's fucking slaps.

Followed boy, you would have been man, like, prime age, yeah, I would say, I missed, take this to your grave, that's the one, like you just said you don't really know much about sugar. I'm going down spinning, that's my, that's my place with ball up, and I will learn more when it is time and it's lovely men, I've interviewed them actually in the past. I just like, it's all kind of past my time, and I just have never really like, dive deep

in there. But sugar, I'm going down spinning, is a god tier banger, and so that to me, I feel like I knew as the antler song, or like, that was cool, totally Donald from the Virgin's, you guys for the heads that know, is antler boy in the video directed by the great Matt Lemski, if you're listening that, you did a wonderful job on that, it's a real, it's a real, a fully

knee moment in the emo cannon. I still think about it to thank you every day, so I was like, really into them by that

“sugar we're going down now, which is, it was I was in college, I think, no, I didn't”

high school. I was 2005. To the front of the cool guy, I wasn't even in college anymore, yeah, so you were the exact audience from under the quirk tree, but yeah, I feel like then from there, I was on a lot of like live journal forums and people just talk about the get up kids all the

time, and I feel like I was getting, well, we'll get into some of the drama, but some of the interpersonal band dramas of that era, because that's exactly one of the band fell apart, it was like 2005ish, yeah, yeah, okay, great, I kind of like this, though, we're going to meet in different places, all right, let's take it from the top with one Matthew prior, born March 16th, 1970, and he has a Pisces, which is I think zero

surprise, that's a Pisces man, I was looking at up, I think there's multiple Pisces in the band, I know that there's an areas in a cancer, the poops, that's crazy, and Jim subject is a Libra, it's really hard to do research, by the way, on the poop, brothers, because it just comes up with poops stuff, they keep saying, oh, like, you mean the wholely father, the wholely father, yeah, and I'm like, that's different, less influential,

poop to me, you think the, the wholely father is less influential than the two poop brothers, yeah, okay, I think that's a fair take, yeah, to all the catholic listeners, to the Catholic monk who listens to this podcast, sorry, he might disagree with you, and that's okay, it's a, there's a wealth of different opinions in the world, so Matt prior, born in Kansas City, Missouri, his father's a lawyer, and

his parents get divorced when he's fairly young, goes to Catholic school, speaking

want to do, because, you know, you're 10, 8, 10 years old, and like Molly Crew, and Guns and Roses is fucking popping the fuck off, he said, I am a young metal head, a white trash poseer, because I actually come from many, the one outlier in my record collection is pump up the volume, he's talking in present times as a child. Catholic school dress codes will want a lot of boys to have hair past their

collar, so I have sort of a mini-mullet, business in the front, Christian mingle in the back, this is from Red Letter Days, Day or Days, his memoir, which is actually quite good. At 12, he's diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, I don't know

“that. Yeah, there's a real big chunk of it in the book. It's actually, I think,”

pertinent to the story, but I'll mention it for now. With any year of that, his mother remarries, he says, "My new stepfather is significantly older than my mother, but this doesn't bother me. That he and I are wholly incompatible will become bothersome, but isn't an issue we need to address yet." So we have a couple of wounds starting. We have divorce, we have stepfather, we don't get along with, and we

have early diagnosis of type 1 diabetes, which is pretty gnarly when you're 12 years old and have to, like, all of a sudden, monitor your insulin intake and stuff. Yeah, he didn't have any sugar going down at all. No sugar was going down spinning, or maybe too much sugar going down spinning. It depends. I think either one can cause a crash. Yeah, then that's destabilizing no matter what. Right,

I'm not a doctor. So he starts playing guitar at their team, but he also, I think

he played drums first, started going to support group for teenagers with diabetes.

And this is where he meets the girl who will eventually become his wife and also the subject of a great deal of the get-up kid songs that we love at the diabetes support group. That's fascinating because I was glancing his Wikipedia and it says, if I can read it from it now, that he met his wife at high school at the high school. So I wonder. I think they got it wrong, man. They as according to his

own words and his memoir. They were at this support group, which is kind of difficult for me to discern, but I'm pretty sure it was a teens with diabetes support group. So I assume she also had diabetes. Or it might have just been a support group for like teenagers experiencing difficulties. Either way, I'm glad that they got the support they needed. Yes, and and found love. He also

meets another girl there who becomes a close friend and teaches him about cool music. He said, above her bed, she's got a subway post, her the red hot chili peppers, all wearing socks and their penises. Hell yeah. And another of the nude twin women from that Jane's addiction album cover

before it got censored. She's the one who first turned me on a punk rock on the

local public radio station. So thank you other woman. She's not named in the

“book. I think he gives her an nickname, but I can't remember what it is. Their”

first date, not him in this girl, but him in future wife, is going to a concert with that other girl to see red hot chili peppers with smashing pumpkins and pearl jam opening. What the fuck? We used to be a proper country. He was wearing a mother-love buncher because he was like, I'm a fucking real one. Oh, you guys aren't even up on mother-love bone. You don't even know. This girl also gets him

into poetry. Important. I think trajectory. This is the 90s. We're talking coffee shops with giant, like ugly purple couches. Like you don't even understand. Like you can't walk into blank street today with the minimal aesthetic and the scent of sontal and understand what a vibe we had with these like the fonts they would use on these menus. It's like the curls. It's just

you you can't ever know. Global cafe. Global cafes. Yeah, it was really beautiful. It was a really beautiful time. Miss matching chairs. It was wonderful. So we're doing open magnets. And by the way, I'm in my prior. I also probably did some of it in my night. But this is not about me. They me a local adult poet who goes by the name Black. And so I hang out with him at his house. This is the

90s and that was normal. He had assigned replacements poster on his bridge. I just like that detail. So I want to include it. Matt prior said I decided to try writing myself. I start journaling, but I'm fearful of it being read by my mother. So I find myself censoring the words of the Commatt of my brain. Eventually with my friends and encouragement, I developed the courage to read at one of Black's

events. But I decided to perform a song instead. I had been playing drums. Do you can't really write songs on that instrument? So I switched to guitar. I have a rudimentary understanding the guitar. But I figured it out enough to craft songs and learn some simple covers. There's no chance in how that I could begin to understand the tabloat shirt featured in the metal centric guitar rags. But

luckily punk rock requires very little musical virtuosity to play. It's one

of the genre's superpowers and it's a game changer for me. Well, he played

“Pixie's way of a mutilation if you want to know what the cover song was.”

We'll get into it, but there's another great Pixie's cover they do. Incredible Pixie's cover. Really good. I really liked this thing that he also said. He said, "Even though I'm terrible and terrified, I'm still encouraged." These

performer. The same way the will to writer compose is the first step to becoming a

writer or composer. They see that will in me even though it scares me to death and they encourage it. I know it's like beautiful. I'm very touched. Yeah. So then he starts playing in a band with another guy from this maybe diabetes, maybe not support group. It's called Take a Joke. Take a joke. It has a great

“cassette. Like one. I mean, I've never listened to it. What is it? I think it's”

bicycles for afghan. Oh yeah. It's a reference to Cervana Good's cat's cradle. Yeah, that's so great. People used to read books, you guys. Take a joke. The singer. He's a hippie. His name does car after Amy Ray of the end over go girls. Hell yeah. Sometime around there, he sees Fugazi for the first time. Really maybe Fugazi is

the velvet underground that launched a thousand ships. I mean, whatever, we can

take it back to many different bands. But a lot of bands stem from learning about or seeing Fugazi. Three-eleven is a good example. They're both a velvet underground. They're different types, like entirely different. Yeah, but it is interesting when I mean, we're not going to charge the entire history of Amy. I'm like, I don't have a white border or anything, but like, if you

wanted to go to the whole wham rights of spring coming off of the original

“embrace embrace coming off of the original DC hardcore scene around discord,”

and then we have Fugazi. You know, like it's all, it's all feeding into a similar well. I'm pretty sure American Fugal had a pretty strong influence from hearing Fugazi as well. Did I do that episode three weeks ago? Should I know? Yeah, but brand damage. Matt said it's impossible to overstate the impact that Ian and Guy and Brendan and Joe have had it on my life. The members of Fugazi. Even at this

young age, especially at this young age. Their ethos and musical adventurousness becomes the foundation of both my songwriting and my humanity. Fuck Catholic school. I learned how to be a good person from repeater. I will copy their lyrical cryptology writing songs with verses up to enough that people

will never seem to know what they're actually about. It's like decoding a

message in a bottle every time you learn the actual meaning of one of their songs, which is how I felt when I learned that Dave Matthews bands song number 41 was about their lawyer. Well, it was devastating. Sometimes when you sing the words, you don't really hear what they are. Most people don't really care, but I do. I care a lot. You care a lot. He does care a lot. Like that's one thing you

can definitely say about him. There's one thing you can say about map writers. He cares quite a bit. Okay, the next band is called secular theme. Great name. Yeah, it's very like I'm in Catholic school. You know, like, and so that's the most rebellious thing you could think of at the time. It's a nice band. And I was like dying laughing out how Matt described in his book, which is it's music for people

who don't enjoy melody or songs structure, which is exactly how I feel about noise music. Sure. It's like good. If you don't want any of those things. But you do enjoy those things. Yeah, I quite a bit. Yeah, I would prefer if music had melody or songs structure. It's a listen. Different strokes for different folks, but they were suits in skinny ties, and they have a saxophone player who does not

not play saxophone. No, how to play. Right. I can make sure it's punk. And all ages where house venue opens up in downtown Kansas City. I really didn't even ask you. Where are you from? Long Island. Okay, so not Kansas. This venue opens up in downtown one of the Kansas cities. Just a fun tid bit about that. All I just want you to emphasize the fact that it

gives a place to see and play, you know, in bands, is that there's a local performance artist named Skully. And he's like, you guys, my cousin is coming to play. We should all go. And that cousin's name was Beck Hanson. Wow. What? Yep. So they got to have a little back show. It was right around when Beck was blowing up with a loser. So Mount Prior at this point is living in a house that is stepdad. He's moved into this house with stepdad owns

it has a wine cellar that they don't use, which they let him convert into a rehearsal space. Is this come back to the, what did he call himself? Like, um, poser, white trans? Yeah, it comes up a lot, which I thought was interesting, like, which makes a lot of sense, like coming up in punk, like, the idea that he was, like, to privilege. He's ashamed a bit. Yeah, of being, like, sort of, although, I mean, a lot of emo music later comes sort of from suburban. Maybe not

“privilege, but sure, just like suburban landscapes, you know. So I remember when Joe Biden or”

the Biden by the way. Mm-hmm. Okay. Hard to describe where to start. But like, um, he's related to Hunter Biden. Yes. Okay. Love luck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he's like, less school. Yeah, everybody really has schooled in Hunter Biden. I don't know if he's ever, like, even seen a grandchild dancer. Yeah. Oh. Jinks. Uh, but, uh, so like, Joe Biden. Oh, so when he was running,

I, I owe my life to Joe Biden, because Pete Wentz's parents met campaigning for Joe Biden

“for, I believe, Senate. That's cute. And so just to speak to the level of, like, connections and”

wealth of the emo's that came after. Sure. I should say that it only got more and more kind of connected. It's a, it's a diverse group, you know, sure. But yeah, I could see why he would be like, it's interesting. I could see why he made me not tell people at the time that his band formed in a wine cellar. Yeah. I totally. I know, I know, under his wine cellar and his stuff, Father's house. He works at the library and an adult video star. I believe this is now sort of

after high school is playing in bands. Something to codering. Yes. Uh, secret to the ring. Yeah. He pretends to be in college and uses the money that his father sends him for like classes and living expenses to buy a 40 conaline van for a band and stuff. We jam a conal as, you know, if you're a minute man person. Um, he says, I do not inform my father of this action. Instead, I create a fake curriculum of classes culminating in a notarized and completely counterfeit report card.

The notarized is such a nice touch. He went the whole way. It's a little of the lady

“don't ask too much because like, wouldn't your dad be like, why is your report card notarized? Is that normal?”

I never had a notarized report card. I never, yeah. I also am wondering what kind of class

this he was making up. I know. So, so curious. Yeah. Like, is that's not going to call the professor? He don't even know clearly. It worked out. Yeah. He meets Jim subject, Alibra, uh, and Rob and Ryan Pope, an Aries and Cancer, respectively. Brothers, um, when their high school band, which was called King Pen, plays with like one of his various bands, he said, they're from the suburbs and don't seem bothered by that pedigree. They like abstract

feedback based noise rock even more than me. They all were glasses and are much more fashionable than me and my mechanic chic. Um, he was really into wearing like, um, like a boiler suit, like workware, workman wear. It was very like rocket from the crypt's admiration club, you know, and like the greaser hair. Cool. Yeah. That really comes from like the guy from rocket in the

crypt. Fun fact about Jim subject. The first show he ever went to that he paid for with his own

money was a helmet that Jesus looser than therapy. Fuck. I know. It was pretty cool. Jim subject. We were, you're a real one. Um, so then in 1995 they get up kids form. It's time. It's time. It's time. They have a guy called Thomas Becker on base and actually Ryan Pope is not in the band yet. Becker leaves for college, so then they haven't dating to replace the drummer. And now that's this guy called Nathan Shey, who went to art school with Jim subject, but this is a bit later.

This is the time line's a little confusing. So, their first practice takes place October 14th, 1995. This is Jim subject's 18th birthday.

“I believe he was still in high, they're still in high school. Him and the Pope brothers would”

definitely run because he's going. But I think they're all still in high school. There's a lot of

lore about their first show. There's several ones that are their first show. But the actual actual

first show is takes place by accident. It is at a venue called Pat the Heads House. This is the basement of the house of a man called Pat the head. Cool. Just in case you're like a he's like a music head. I have no idea they don't. It's confusing too because Pat the head. Yeah, totally. He might have also had just like a large head. It's not. There's no detail given. This is basement. Use your imagination. Yeah, it's his basement. He would have shows there. And

that day, Texas is the reason and shift or meant to play. But somehow, both their bands had technical issues and they were not able to come. Matt Prior said, "This I assume is horseshit. I know I wouldn't be excited to get a tourite dinner with a door deal at Pat the Heads basement." So anyway, those guys don't show up. Their friend Rambo's band is playing already on the bill. It's like the third opener. And their whole band is already just like in attendance at the show. So they're like,

I guess we could play a few songs. So they play a few songs. Jim Subject said that he's sure they played woods in and shorty. And then they played some covers. And then actually years later, he talked to Texas as a reason. And they were like, "Yes, we canceled because we did not want to waste the gas to come play in Pat the Heads basement." Smart. That's allowing for the first get-up good show. I mean, Texas is the reason must be kicking themselves, you know? They could have

played Pat the Heads basement. So then they're like, fuck yeah, we're a band. We need what we need

band of his in high school had a song, I don't know, one of those old bands, that the song was about whenever they'd play at this one coffee shop in the suburbs, all these punk kids would only come to that show. So I was like, these suburban get-up kids that would only come to the suburb show.

“So that's what they would call them, suburban get-up kids. So the name was meant to be suburban get-up”

kids, but it's a bad name. But B. I think Matt prior was like all my prior band names were started with an ass and they didn't pan out and I don't want to do another ass name. So we'll just go with get-up kids. I like that, but it like magical thinking. Yeah, let's let's shift that energy.

All right, let's get into the first seven inch 1996 shorty beside the breathing method.

Like, what's interesting to me about their earlier stuff is I think they get a lot of hate for, we'll talk about like the emo subgenres and the classifications there in, but I think we'll, and I will listen. Yeah, I mean, and I have my whiteboard so it's good, but I just think it is you can hear more clearly the connection between those sounds of like when people call second wave Midwest emo. Right. Whatever the kind of more, you know, experimental is like a

broad term, but, you know, more, let's just melodic and like playing more with rhythm and having

“all these other things turn into tuning or little jazz or jazz. Yeah, I think the earliest”

stuff kind of speaks more to that and like I think then we'll get into it, but they, they then

usher in a kind of a third wave if you will that is much more like melodically driven and I think sounds

got a lot more criticism later on. Yeah, they really do occupy kind of like a weird space because they predate American football or at least the first American football release. Right. I guess they would have been sort of in the similar timeline as Captain Jazz. Yeah, though, there's no real evidence that they knew of or played with each other. Like, I don't know, that I know that like braid and mineral and some of the other prominent Midwest emo bands,

although mineral is not from the Midwest. But, you know, lumped into that category were in this like kind of burgeoning scene with them as they would play shows with them. So that being said, Shorty is great and the breathing method is actually really beautiful and these are kind of

“crazy to be your first two songs. Yes. I agree. That's what I feel when I'm like, if I see”

early videos of them or if I hear these really a song, it's that they're like musicians and they're very like ambitious, you know, those are his, I would say.

This is still Nathan Schae by the way on the first the first seven inch. He's a sculptor,

so Matt Rire calls the sculptor in the book and he says, we record three songs in the sculptor insist that he scream on each one. We are not crazy about this, but he seems adamant so we let it go. It's not really the sound we're going for and I have no fucking idea what he's saying and any of these songs. And you can still hear it in the background. So they, they bang out this seven inch. They pay for it with their own money. Some studio in Nebraska that charges by the song

rather than the hour, great deal. And they mail that seven and jot to everyone that they can find on earth. Ben friends, you know, they, they hit that maximum rock and roll book your own fucking life Bible, which has done a great deal of good in the punk and email community. And they start getting some interest when they start signing up some shows for that summer. However, Nathan Schae, the sculptor is like, I'm not going to tour. I have a sculpting internship or something. And so that's

when they draft Ryan Pope up from high school onto drums. According to my prior, the sculptor threw a spectacular tantrum and ceremonially broke a copy of the seven inch of his knee. That's awesome. I just thought we were aggressive. That was really funny. Well, I don't hide it. It's so small. How do you write? Maybe I don't really see a knee. It's going to be it. Yeah. Okay, now now in the, this is May of 96, the second first show takes place in the lore of the ghetto kids, which is the night of

Jim Rob and Ryan Pope's high school prom because they're still in high school. I think Jim and Robert probably seniors, they play a show at a place called The Daily Grind. They took their dates out to dinner in Olimo, popped into the gig, played in their tuxedos, high-telded to the prom. Very cool. Matt Prior did load out because he was not in high school anymore. Yeah. And then they tour over the

which is at the Slant House in Madison was mineral in the promistering. Fuck, we used to be a proper

country. Although according to Matt Prior, this show actually wasn't that great or well attended. So even though in our imagination, that's like a magic and miracle show, he was like, it was like whatever. But he said later, I catch the promistering playing a mix tape on their vans stereo. I'm surprised by their unironic love for top 40 pop radio and the hits of today, which makes so much sense when you listen to the promistering. He said, "It leaves an impression on me. I've been so

steeped in the indie rock underground and noise seen that I forgot what a joy of pop music is."

“And I get that. Yeah. It is joyful. Totally. And I think that does steep into the shift and”

get-up kids music that starts to take place. I mean, this is very early, so the home patch is on, but you know, you can kind of see this arc is forming. He also mentions in his book being heavily influenced by the Kansas City very early. I don't even think would have been called emo, because that wasn't super minted quite in that way, yet with the band Boys Life. I was going to say, that feels like the other big Kansas City. I've not really up on Boys Life, but I did listen some

quite good, got to say. And also, hilariously, I just couldn't help but notice that the Spotify by voice life starts with, while the get-up kids were still in braces, Kansas City's Boys Life, we're setting the pace for local post-hard boys shift towards emo. That's not nice. Well, isn't it? I mean, they're just setting the record straight. Do they even have braces? Yeah, I don't know. They were doing a type of all the kids back then. That's a good point.

Anyway, there's no wrong with orthodontree. But, anyway, my myself had had gear and braces.

“Boys Life got the Numerous treatment. That's why I feel like they have a second life in a nice way.”

Numerous really doing the heavy lifting of emo from that era. Yeah, for sure. Bringing it would be like, hey, you've ever heard of this shit? No, okay. Well, you're going to listen to it now. I imagine that you might want the offices of Numerous. They have a big whiteboard and someone comes in roles in another whiteboard. Yeah. And it's like, and all it has on it is a band in a band what does it somebody asked about you? And they're like, sit, perfect. You've done it. You've done it.

We're putting it over the name. We're putting it out. But yeah, so Boys Life is the other Kansas City. Like, I feel like they were kind of putting them on the emo map a little bit before. But yeah, they set the stage in a way. Well, he also, this is just nerd chip, but I was quite delighted

by it. In his book, Matt prior mentions to other local Lawrence bands that I've never heard of,

and he just cries them. Like, he's like two of the very best bands in the world are from Lawrence Kansas. One is called Kill Creek. They have 532 monthly listeners on Spotify. However, they are so good. I love when I find something like that. Thank you, Matt prior. It's really, really good. And then there's another one called the vitrious humor. Also quite good. That one is

“a little more, I think, well known, but thank you, Matt prior. And if you guys at home go listen to”

those because they're really good. Kill Creek, I really enjoyed. His love of those bands aside, Matt prior says that the get-up kids are not part of the Kansas City music scene and pretty much are ignored. Until they get noticed by Jackie Becker, who's the booker of the bottleneck in Lawrence, honestly one of the best venues. If you've been there, somehow it's really great. Matt prior calls it the true troubadour of the Midwest. It's a big deal to be a book there. And then another

really important biographical note is that the end of the summer, or touring, we're playing with the promissory in mineral. We are getting noticed by the Lawrence Kansas troubadour of the Midwest, the bottleneck. And then actually literally don't know her name because he calls her something else in the book. He calls her Honey White in the book. I don't know what Matt prior's wife's name is. I'm sorry. Don't blame me, Matt prior's wife. I love to name people by name, but it's not in the book.

She moves to Boston for school, starting along this in this relationship that will be

incredibly inspirational for many songs. I think when I first found that get up kids, I

thought they were from many people because of the masspikes. There's multiple, well then there's that single, they have the newfound interest in Massachusetts after which I believe a band that's real called a newfound interest in Connecticut formed. But I think it based on that name. I mean, this is all rooted in early wife guy, Matt prior, being absolutely devoted to his childhood sweetheart who moved to Boston. So much so that people think his band is from Boston.

That's love. It's really beautiful. All right. So in the fall, they're like, let's send a seven inch to some labels. Let's get this popping. They do not get it popping. They're mostly

a fair that one takes on in their college years, which I like couldn't help but wonder carry

“about job voice if that was polyvinyl. Since that's a college-based sort of one-man-ish thing,”

but I haven't, that's just me speculating. And a hard core label called Doghouse, formed by Dirk Hemsath in 1987. So this label wasn't exactly maybe like a genre fit, but they had their own distribution. That was like a big part of the company and a partnership with an agency in Europe. And so they were like, well, we would have district and we could play Europe. Yeah, it's a safe

but it's a safe bet. The contract was for two albums and two EP's. So in 1997, first EP, Woodson.

I just want to quickly paint a picture of the music of 1997 that this is emerging into you are not born. I'm too. You're too old. Okay. So maybe you're enjoying some spice girls who was at the house. Yeah, wallflowers, great band, put up bringing down the horses here.

“Perhaps the only thing, it's just radio heads okay computer, huge deal, modest mouse.”

It's gonna say yes. That's a big deal. Another like, are we more, are we non-demo? What do we call that? It's not either more, starting doing ASMR, Ellie. Ellie, it's been here. Well, the promisering, nothing feels good. Yeah, come on. Rainer Maria, past one searching static prevails, Jimmy or old, at the drive-in, EP, I believe cursive. Another band that I'm not super familiar with, the ice cream party. Are you most, uh, Joan

of Arc? Cool, a portable model of Napsack, honestly really good band. Okay, so stuff's happening, stuff's popping off and Woodson comes into this world. They had promised two of these tracks to a tiny label on Rhode Island called contract records. So actually a new found interest in Massachusetts, which you just referred to and off the wagon initially came out that in the seven inch. How do you feel about these songs? I mean, I mean, I'm like one of those people who loves

the earlier. So yeah, unfortunately, or like, or just not just there, I feel like, I have that tendency in all the bands. I love their scrappy kind of, a real home spun, rawness that you just miss. But so yeah, I do really enjoy them. And I feel like I don't like go back as much because they're

“not as replayable. Like they are a bit more, I don't know, yeah, abrasive maybe, but I think, uh, you”

can just hear a lot of the things that will come later. I think, right, like the DNA. I mean, I'm with you. I have a kind of a long-held theory that rock music is like the sound of youth. You know,

so there's a reason that we always like the earlier stuff. It's just, it's more visceral. It's more

at the surface of what it's trying to get to. It's just, it's just like right there. Like the veil is then, if you will, whereas like, unfortunately, the older you got, you'll make great music, but it's not going to have the immediacy. Um, nobody likes it when I say that. And by nobody, I mean, musicians, but I generally agree with that. And I'm sorry. Um, I am really like what's happening here on what's in, like, second place. Let's go fucking clapping. Yeah, that's fucking dope. And a new

found interest in Massachusetts is actually a really beautiful song. It is not actually why I would say actually. It's a really beautiful song, period. They're building a fan base. Like, people are starting to kind of get into it. Woodson ups that fan base a little bit. They also go on a national tour with a braid and a film reserve. Um, you got it. The first date takes place. After their high school graduation. Oh, which ones? Well, um, well, it has to be because

Ryan still in high school. Ryan still has one they report for a minute. Yeah. So it's a Rob and Jim, Jim. Yeah. It's on this tour that they meet James Doese. Huge, huge. He is the drummer for coalesce,

which is a little pretty incredible post-hark or a band. Um, and they've played together at a show,

which yields their split with coalesce. This split has the get-up kids song burned bridges in the coalesce song. I'm giving up on this one. Split seven inches or so cool. Such a, such a marker of the burgeoning email community. It's awesome. It really traces like, like, you know, they'll later we'll talk about like their split with or they have a split with the anniversary and I'm like,

idea of like, teaming up with a band that you feel a kinship with to like expose your audiences to

“each other's music. It's like so tender. I agree. The next split they do is with Brad. It's called”

postmark stamp number four. The get-up kids put I'm a loner dotty a rebel on this one. Crazy. I know, it's crazy. I'm, I'm assuming not a ton of people heard it at that time, but that's going to become an important get-up kid song. Yeah. Yeah. And then Brad's song was forever got shorter.

And then September of that year, they put out their first album, four minute mile, produced by

the basis of Sherlock, Bob Weston. Yeah. It's 28 minutes long. And how many it's like four, four, not four. It's 11 songs. Yeah, tight. I read later that they thought because they could record four songs in a day. They thought they could record 11 songs in two days, which is awesome math. Like you're like, I'm just going to get better and actually I'm going to keep. Yeah, it's just not even correct because you, it would be eight songs. Right. But I guess they had two

and a half days because they started Friday afternoon. Basically, yeah, Ryan's in high school.

“So they like pick them up from school. High tailed over to Chicago. I think I was in charge of”

the recorded. And spend the entire weekend. And then Sunday late night drive home. And they bang this thing out. I don't think they were very happy with the result. Yeah, later, I read like a gym subject interview where he called the Bob Weston collab very soon. Like a misstop opportunity because of course, you know, you're not going to know what to do with that with like I feel like you wouldn't appreciate that as much when you have like until

later in your career. And also like two and a half days, you know? Yeah. I mean, they're they're children. I mean, knowing their taste, I'm sure they could respect and that like valorize and venerate. Bob Weston at the time, but I feel like at the same time, you just you're there to make 11 songs in two days. Yeah, so. Matt Pirzer, we spent every moment of those two and a half days at this studio. Only breaking to eat pizza, watch the Simpsons in the sleep. Sounds cool.

I mean, yeah. Apparently at the time, they were listening. They asked much later like what were you listening to while you're making this. And they said, boy's life, Christy Front Drive,

the first Jimmy World Record, because it had come out earlier that year. And stuff like unwound,

but also a lot of pop music like Weezer and that whole scinty thing at the end of the song Don't Hate Me is very rentals friends of P. Love that song. Yeah, really great song. So good. The first rentals record was a big one for them at the time. That was interesting. That's fascinating. I wonder how many other bands have ever mentioned the side project of Weezer, the rental. Yeah. I mean, Weezer has a pretty big influence on the get-up kids, which you can really hear.

You know, which I think is a kind of maybe is what differentiates them a little from like what's going on in the braid mineral. You know, the sort of Texas is the reason. It's a little more esoteric like they seem to be driven more back to that like hearing the promisering listen to radio pop like I think they're they are drawn a little bit more to like pop elements and also like kind of 80s he like sent the elements. Yeah. No, I think that's a base station sent on that song and

“it's like I think you just hear the things of band to come. That's how you say it. Starting a song”

with the words forgive me is so email like you're just not going to beat those allegations. What else sticks out to you on for a minute? I mean, it's it's a pretty... It's a lot to talk about. It's a lot to talk about. I mean, I again like I really like honestly listen to this record almost as much as the one that comes after it and so just because I enjoy like how they're really going for it. I think Michelle with one else goes back to the also the like Midwest email allegations. I think

can be maybe put to rest that they were Midwest emo band. It's very beautiful. It's very slow. I mean, there's just a lot there that I think you could hear with that they were going to be

a massively popular. I do think this. I mean, you always look at and retrospect, but I feel like they

must have at least I hope drove back from Chicago being like we have like one or two. Like yeah, I mean, there's a bit better half. Come on. That's a god tier song. Come on. You just tell these an old soul, which I really appreciate. It's also a band across the board where you could tell that they are writing the lyrics down and like editing them. Like a racing and like how do I mean, I think it kind of goes back to like what we were talking about with like the background of

You know, like I really love that. Matt said, I remember we had 10 songs and we felt like we needed one more. So the song that's called "Lowercase West Thomas." We wrote randomly in the studio. That song is our friends, I guess about our friends, Brian Case and Robert Lowe, not the actor. So that's Lowe in case and they lived on West Thomas, which was the apartment that we stayed in when we were making them. Okay. There you go. A little "Lower." A little "Lower." A little bit of "Lower."

It's funny. Like I feel like this is like they also have a very Jimmy world situation in which like some people are like four minute mild truce or like that is the that's the album and then some you learn something dry at home about truceers. Right. Just the same way like clarity and believe American. Yeah. Yeah. Where do you fall? Something to write home about is to me a categorically better record for many reasons that we'll talk about, but something to write home about is me standing

“outside love actually style with the sign to me your perfect. Yes. That's how I feel about something”

to write home about. It's an absolutely, you know, it's an album many have used to we will love her or even type it on on mixed tape. It's also just it's trick a dorm a dorm mate. Yeah, many many uses for that. But of course I feel like and you know also I think I listened to

something to write home about frankly first it wasn't like I was going in order. That was like

true point. You know it's 12 year old finding this band but I feel that four minute mild yeah it definitely as far as like debut LPs goes is tremendous and it's like you know especially knowing they really kind of popped out fully formed in some ways you know like and maybe it's just like which is crazy giving like their teenagers or they've been in so many bands they've been in one bunch of bands. They start with us that's start with us and they're you know they can't didn't come

here to play a bit. No well they can to play music. They can't really play music but not to play. But yeah

“then they tore with braid again after and I think you're also just like you're seeing bands that”

are all like very professional I have to imagine those those tours were quite um tame. You know I mean like they're not partying. Yeah I don't think they're Molly Crow. Even though they like Molly Crow. Who knows? It's true because there's a messiness but it's like the kind of messiness that like is very well they couldn't legally drink at bars which obviously you know stops everyone in no one drink and no one cellular because it's a recording studio. Right um don't

know a razor of jajun by the way they also tore with jajun. Oh yeah that's really cool. We don't do great yeah we don't do jajun or a razor on this podcast. They also tore with jimi world that year in December and that's I love this kid. So they're touring with jimi world in December and this is when they got up kids first here clarity because remember clarity was floating on for a long time before it came out and that I read that they were like well we better

fucking up our game. Jim's up there called uh he said there's an era of friendly competition which is really fun. I can't imagine hearing clarity I mean like my fucker. Yeah back to the studio. Back to the drawing board not that format not as an amazing but webbing clarity is. Yeah this is a god tier. You're going to step it up. Yeah so Ryan Pope is meant to go to college because he's graduating high school but the get-up kid's got offered to tour in Europe with

braid. That's where you're talking out and he's like never mind I'll go to college later. I'm going

to go to Europe with braid um so they do that and then at some point in this in 1998 James from Colis moves in with the Pope brothers and becomes a roommate and he and Matt are hanging out a bunch because they are the only ones who are now 21 years old and can legally drink at bars so they're doing that and they bond over singing and music theory apparently Matt said that James taught him about music theory and how to sing harmonies and stuff. This is also the

senior that James recorded his first solo album under the name Reggie. Reggie and the full effect. As a joke he says which is I know how do you record an album as a joke like what's the joke that it's really good? Maybe the name. That's funny and he's funny and great as heads

“in 1984 and in 1997 I believe his album title. Well then like his next record was called”

promotional copy you confusing fun. It's so great but like laugh out loud funny. I don't want a bit smart to anyone but I'm not a Reggie girl. I understand but I'm happy for everyone.

I'm not turned into it but I actually like from that era of just first of all I'm very impressed

by him because he's like he's like oh what are you guys doing sorry I'm just making a joke record that's actually quite polished and I'm kind of like every instrument on it all the time um I was looked into it obviously I'm not or maybe not obviously but I'm not checking in on Reggie that much but obviously to see what they're up to. He's up to yeah and he released a record I want to say

Adele's 21 on the cover because he was 41 and it's like that's actually funny now because you know

that's a different age and you're a man it's really good he nails it so because you know listeners at home but we're really recommend and it's opens with like a good Italian kind of like um

“operatic 41 does yeah incredible first yeah he's clearly like very talented and I think part”

of the thing that I read the I enjoyed was like they had a piano in this house the Pope house and they would just be like play eternal flame by the bangles and he could just play anything I believe it yeah he's a highly talented guy yeah is it you funny is it you goofy for you it's like is that where you come down I just like it's not for me that's okay yeah they end up like after all this hanging and this like music theory talk and bonding over singing they're like well actually

maybe we should have a keywords in the band like we should have jams in the band but he has to

tour with Cole S first so that doesn't happen quite yet now the band is getting bigger and bigger right

they are like right fully so people are hearing four minute mile and being like oh yes I fuck with those heavy and they start getting label interest you know including from subpop and gaffet which I thought was interesting and mojo and mojo are they briefly even say maybe yeah

“mojo such a weird one to be I think they just really like the Anara guy is what I read like”

that's because mojo was home to real big fish and gold finger at the time so it's not exactly like a stylistic fit per se and cherry pop and daddy of course how could I forget cherry pop and daddy is so we haven't bit of scott we had to have a bit of swing you know we have we have everything going on the spirit of the 90s is a live at mojo records um they also had a joint venture at this time with universal so they were like arguably both in the end of major like they have this power to

but remember like the get-up kids are still signed to don't house they have not fulfilled their contract they've put out one EP and one album they're signed for two EP's and two albums the reason that they were unhappy with dog house is because dog house could not or would not I don't know keep up with their growth like and I think it was partially to do with the fact that the distribution system was in house in the sense that like they prioritized

the vinyl that they were able to print up to distribute it because that's their bread and butter not sending it to the band to be able to sell on tour and like there's some other things I think they were feeling like okay you can't keep up with what we're trying to do here yeah there's an article I read from I want to say yeah two thousand two thousand two thousand CMJ article that's

like they sold forty thousand which is great first of all so a lot yeah and they would have

sold more if not for yeah issues with dog house keeping in mind that they're not on the radio or MTV or anything that would you know promote the selling of so many records okay so they're in talks with mojo but it's like extremely difficult and contentious mojo also had requested that they re-recorded don't hate me for the next record because they look they're like that's a single it just needs a sound better like your voice is out of key or something to be fair

it's a huge pop it's a huge pop but they were like that's offensive you think that's the best we can do we can do better they also wanted to own merchandising rates which is like when you're selling t-shirts on the road also this is just a sidebar by Alex Ross Perry and I were talking about this on last week's episode and I can't stop thinking about because it's so right what happened in this specific genre where people were like black and white t-shirts were done with that well we need

as maroon yellow navy baby blue and it was just a bunch of men wearing two small baby blue and yellow t-shirts and you're mad about that it's ugly it's interesting I am mad about I'm going to be mad about it in the newspaper I remember I was super into pennacadisco and I was like looking up old photos of Ryan Ross because you're 12 year old girl and he's the primary songwriter not me I know that it's been but not me when I was 12 we were looking at photos of Kirkup and

it was the different oh well that's your different that's better but there's like a picture of family like took like a candidional camera selfie anyway he's wearing a yellow from here tiny tiny tiny yellow modest mouse with a like a water buffalo on it I'm like this is this is why I can't be trusted to finish my deadlines on time because I will spend like six hours going in a rabbit hole

“of like who did this who decided we need maroon t-shirts I think it's probably also because”

that we were talking if I can you know just pontificate like the or just my guess is you know the prepiness of like you know they rejected it because like because all these kids are like suburban kids you were like no but many are growing up in that time and I feel like it pleaded into maybe their desire

they're emotional and weirdly I feel like the black was like too tough for them I say yeah there were two there were pusses okay I'm just kidding I'm just kidding I'm sweeties I'm I'm really happy for them

but I don't want any of those these are so I'll never wear them and good for them yeah throw my

away yeah no you can do you guys can do whatever you want to do I just think black and white t-shirts were great with an ambroke so maybe the most pressing issue was that whatever label sign got up kids would have to pay fifty thousand dollars to buy them out of their doghouse contract around this time is when our pal Richie again approaches them to become their manager I asked him like I was like how did you like what did you the kind of you because he approached

that he was just like and he was just like yeah I heard for a minute my like I heard the music it was incredible like someone brought it into the office was like you got to hear that I mean they had

“one band at that time I think vagrant had face to face like they were not it's not exactly like a huge”

operation at the time maybe they had one I think they had put out also like one seven inch before that of another band that I can't remember respectfully to vagrant records um so it's not like they were like a huge label but what he said was he that he heard newfound interest in Massachusetts

for the first time on a mixed tape and he said it was the best song he heard in forever and he made

it as mission to on them down so he approached them not to sign them up first just to be their manager Richie again said in the oral history they're fighting with doghouse they want to go to mojo and I'm like really the cherry poppin daddies and the get-up kids so Richie again is like you guys I'm your manager I've been trying to work this stuff out for you but it's not working why don't we just put out a vagrant you have the songs done because they already had most of the songs written

for uh something right home about and he's like you guys are going nuts but gotta get on the road let's just put out a vagrant meanwhile unbeknownst to the gut-up kids they're like yeah okay John Cohen's parents had to take a mortgage out on their house in order to get the money together to buy that contract out how do you think he explained that to his parents he think he showed them and what he was like he showed them maybe I need you to hear um I'm a loner dotty I'm a rebel

“and I know you're gonna understand that you need to go to the bank right now yeah um my parents would be like”

you need to go to law school get out of my face yeah well that's the kind of uh that's the the other end maybe of the um middle class like uh you know punk middle class yeah I I mean it's very cold this Santa Monica was right before they record something to write home about Matt prior lost an entire notebook filled lyrics yet written for these songs and he had to like start from scratch that's where I was stolen I guess oh yeah are the demos from that those that notebook is that

I think it's even prior to them recording demos because he said like a lot of the songs he had to start over complete from scratch so must have been prior to the demos he said maybe it made them worse but having the time and honestly hyper fixating on it and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting was beneficial maybe that's why the boards are so sort of good well one of my favorite sliding doors of emo history is that you know holiday was supposed to start totally differently like the

well because the demos are now out they did this re-assue for 25 so that would have been whatever time yeah beautiful re-assue but i written about by one aerial garden on pitchwork dot com but yeah so the original lyrics um see you every year and that yet we don't embrace which would be a different start to the song not I don't like it as much oh you like what they added on much better yeah yeah see you every year and yet we don't embrace right what is this

time of grandma i know Christmas time who are you not embracing once a year you see yeah um you're

“right i can't argue with it so i think makes sense that they did a lot of rewriting is what i'm saying”

yeah many versions love that love that james is finally in the band do is i keep not saying

it's last name because i feel like i'm saying wrong um and then they they hit hit i don't know over to tensile town babe lost angels california actually silver like i just started recording something to write home about do you think it sounds like a silver like record as um angelina no i don't think so do you think so well i'm only been to silver a couple times and it doesn't sound like the two places i've been there which is silver like lounge and the errone there

if i heard that song in either of those places i'd be very confused i don't want to hear it i don't want to hear any music that sounds like they're one in silver like oh they should be whatever that music is they should use it like what tonimo it's like believer by a manager no that's not it either it's kind of no it's something else something else something i've got it father john misty i

friend this is only for like some real heads in the audience because Kevin kusatsu was the first

intern at vagrant records at like 13 or 15 years old or something and later became dipelo's manager huge yes i see the connection art yeah um and they bring along their tour manager Alex brawl they go ahead and record well they had already recorded red letter days the EP because they needed to fulfill part of the rest of the doghouse contract so they need more mortgage no more mortgage what simply one mortgage of john code in spanish house um this was produced by ad rose it had

James on it um i want to talk about it first obviously because it comes out first even though it's within the same year and there's overlap which you know i am curious about if they would didn't want to re-record don't hate me it was on there they wanted them to re-record and then red letter day okay i have so many questions here number one it's not that i don't like red letter day it's a good song you have motherfucking mass pipe in your hands you have a treasure you

have a winning lottery ticket and you're like now we'll just leave that on that EP and we'll won't put it on the album i just like that's my sliding doors moment what happens what's what's the alternate history of the get-up kids if masspike is on something's right i hope about don't you feel like they could that could have been a radio hit like that could have been like now we're death cap for cutie you know but they were for a moment i'm not really yeah i guess

they never hit really really hit but they were they didn't have radio hit but death cap for come on

“no of course you know they never got to that that level well i think the death cap for cutie single”

level is like what i felt me world's a good example true they didn't have um the middle on there but i mean i wonder if unnamed wife was kind of like i don't know like a little nervous about having a song about me on there i mean all the songs are about her that's true every song on something to write home in our as well is either about her about the label boss so true yeah and it can't tell sometimes you can't tell sometimes i'm sorry that's just my that's my hell

damn i'm just like i i i'm so curious what the alternate history is if masspike is on something to write about yeah but yeah and arbor also also something i think about where i'm like well you left it there you could have done more yeah so i'm really beautiful also fun pun because it's spelled like a name like a name yeah and there's some rumors that it might question mark be question mark about Adrian from the anniversary of right cuz that's maybe starting at that time rock pope

and Adrian who i can give me your last name i'm able to bear hope and thank you um who i got married and later quite quickly divorced then and part of the deal with vagrant the get up gets had

“an imprint and here was in villains i think it was called yeah and then one of the bands maybe”

the first band they put out was the anniversary yes yeah also Kansas City time i believe so yeah

i think so too well rather today is amazing it's kind of a crazy collection of songs to use

to fulfill it obligation um again and i don't know what they were trying to do but it's it's just there's really good songs and then not limited to mass bike which is a god tier a god tier song yes it's not twinkle daddy energy you know it's this song that makes building the ever Boston it's so catchy it's the it's like a single long and that make it's yes i ride for that song that's okay we have a different we have a different history yeah um pitchwork

give this a five point one how do you feel about that as someone who's associated with pitchwork.com the EP um that that was very generous of them the time the time that was probably um the nicest that they could have done that was essentially them being like this is a ten yeah i'm being like okay

“like good job you know um but because you know i think they only got a harsher and meaner”

and maybe that also speaks to i got if i could bring myself to be a pitchwork editor in nineteen ninety seven hmm here you could occupy the mind and hard yeah i'm dressed awesome um are you though we're gonna blend up shirt and um i'm singing in Chicago and i'm listening and i don't know where these guys fit in i might think maybe that they're a lit like i don't know if i know what emo is right i know what emo is gonna have a pitchwork but maybe i think emo is like actually

kind of cool still because i'm still like embrace and then also you know thinking about uh american football things that maybe more more critically pleasing yeah uh or felt more mature adults question mark

a pitchwork.com in nineteen ninety nine would look here as a sellout yeah yeah it's like something is turned off right off but yeah so if i point one i say um i was expecting lower

amazing stuff amazing stuff amazing yeah so that was July of of uh

ninety nine also insanely they had to forfeit their vinyl rates to get out of the doghouse contract which is really nuts um all right so time of twenty eight nineteen ninety nine something to write all about as a birth into this world they recorded with this priest or named Chad blinnman yes uh who i was looking at his like discography and yeah it's all the bands that you love that you say really old loving saves a day since his failed this is all after

yes after yeah i think prior to that he had well face to face with the other face face found is the you know i'm a huge face and um i'm a young warptor child so what was it like it's fun yeah but yeah it was really fun yeah cool yeah um i remember the first year i went uh m&m play that's fun that's kind of matches the energy he was boot off stage but yeah really it was it was when he had only put out real slim shady but also iced tea and body count

play that year and they were universally beloved okay it was really fun it was like you know the vandal it was a great time less than Jake yeah good fun times yeah so Chad blinnman is not trusted by the get-up kids they bring Alex brought their tour manager and they said that they basically brought him because they were like we were on extra this Chad person doesn't

“fuck up our sound um Matt prior said the only thing we knew of blinnman was that he was an”

industrial golf who'd worked with face to face we don't want to sound like either of those things it's been rude would you agree with that yeah i think that's been the right succeeded yeah i don't think this record sounds like either of those things um it took six weeks to make how this is interesting what Matt prior was listening to a lot when they were doing the record was Wilco's summer tea which is one of my favorite Wilco records because i like in in the

parlance of the i like the earlier stuff it's it is the best i really think that i was just like not really kind of Wilco better than the later kind of Wilco but i know that i'll be like flailed in the town square by a certain man for saying that and that's mine we all have our opinions okay yeah and then clarity so they had been inspired by clarity now clarity is out they've purchased it they're listening and the Wilco thing makes a lot of sounds like it does sound like if

i'm always i'm always in love like the sense they're come on yeah just like

totally ripped and torn from there and then the they wanted the guitars to sound like the food fighters the color and shape which had that just come out and do you think they succeeded um i you know what whenever i talk about how guitar sound i'm doing cosplay because i i that's like shit i don't really understand so yeah i know we're not supposed to call them crunchy well sometimes they aren't crunchy yeah like what are we supposed to do i'm gonna tell you something

though color and shape the maybe the only food fighters i'll might fuck with okay i mean uh the first one as well yeah i mean i'm just a long bro yeah it's i got it 97 was crazy um ever long ever long god tier song to this day when i was doing research for this i found

“an interview from 2024 i think so i must have been from the real shoes that's uh Jim”

Jimmy subject you think he was my Jimmy ever um i think he should maybe it was too confusing with Jimmy World and also James i James that's also in the band right a lot of gems and Jimmy's and James this but Jim subject was talking about right after they had recorded he was showing some of the demos to Chris schifflet who was the guitarist i believe uh for who fighters are one of them at the time uh who fighters had just played a small show in Kansas City

and he showed them the demos and before he showed them Chris uh said are there a bunch of pics slides on it as a joke you know because every band these days has pics slides that's kind of like as uh read him for a film that's like so i'm just a pics slides and he's like just two this is just just just the two on the ones that come back yeah besides um that's really funny i thought this was interesting in Cohen said um in Cohen the expert a good friend yeah great

“of me talk about him expert he had said in a piece i think probably about i don't know”

what the real sure i didn't write it down but he said i think of it this way something to write

home about is to super chunk what never mind was to the pixies okay well it's a lot it makes a lot of

sentence actually if you think about it it's like Nirvana took inspiration from a lot of what was what

did with it kind of helped to mint a whole new genre which was grunge sure this is not what Ian

saying i'm just taking that and extrapolating on it and like in many ways something to write home about like is very rooted in the kind of indie rock melodic indie rock that's super chunked me like but then they kind of use that with the other things they had going on and also you can't get away

“from Matt prior's voice yeah nothing you'd want to i'm just saying like that i think i didn't”

his vocal quality alone pushes it a little into the emo space which did not agree or the punk space i mean that the pitch and the like slight nasaliness is very associated with like emo and punk yes super chunk is funny to me because um x voice is can be that at times i gotta say

that there are songs that i they actually sound quite similar to me but also they get classified in

as more well because merge i think merge records there's a lot of the kind of classification of based on who's on that label i think it like retroactively thanks people think about super chunk a little bit differently is my theory where it's like any you know interesting like if your destroyers on your label then like right maybe you're not actually emo or something even though I think some of their songs do sound quite similar to and uh yeah i think they also

“tour together on some white super chunk and they get up kids i guess like that's what i wanted”

to ask you like maybe to back up like you are a woman in m music a woman in emo music an expert on this what elements do you think they get up kids and in particular something to write home about have that sort of earned them their place like whether they wanted or not

in the canon of like second wave emo yeah i think well they also i think they were like the

progenators of they they bridge to this this gap really well i think between second and between the second and third wave which i would consider to be like third wave is where you're getting just like any teenager in the world who knows how to play three chords or whatever is right and i think it even though they get up kids are like skilled musicians and have a lot going on you know there's a lot of power chords they make it seem i think a little bit more effort

less and also i think the lyrical content is a big thing people talk about a lot right the shift anyway i've just being so unabashedly kind of the yearning yearning and um and and not afraid to sound like you're crying is your singing kind of yeah and the suburban kind of woes like you know how the actual record starts as we know famously egg two pixelids right and then what became of everyone i used to know which is everyone can see him reading that at the poet the coffee

house you know and and what do you think about that part about his vocal tone that part is vocal tone like do you think that is an element that sort of helps shift them well just sort of helps place them within the emo genre again whether they want to or not like it's yeah i think then you get saves the day and you know you girls also in which i guess were kind of through being cool was ninety nine two thousand she knows um but uh it's about around the same time i think you get this this

wave of uh disaffected suburban kids who all channel this like nasally thing and i also think that you then move away from this more like post hard core low right and both like quiet not actually even i feel like a lot of early emo is um a bit more subdued if you can say like this is the bridge between their sort of torments and friends in braid and mineral and stuff and also what came a little bit before sending day real estate that's just kind of a very different

value proposition within the same genre and this sort of begets the more pop punk-esque version is that about right i think that's correct yeah because i think that's exactly what it is you know it's pop driven uh they're going for like i think it wouldn't sound um out of place and i don't know like a handson there's like a handson quality almost because it is it's it's incredibly catchy and

“fast-paced and and pop and pop ultimately that's why i kind of surprised i didn't have bigger”

radio crossover in that way especially what's happening at the time um and i think it was also just like younger sounding i don't know how to really cross quantify that then something like in circles or something like this where like if you're a 12 year old kid you are probably going to prefer the kind of yeah in circles is quite heavy i mean in circles kind of seamlessly fit in with the back half of the nineties the adult thing coming out of sort of grunge into that

it made a lot of sounds although i don't wouldn't call it grunge at all but you know it's it's a more of a mucky sound in the best way it's thick you know this is not that yeah in terms of what then creates the fall-up ways of the world like what i think they were hearing it's you know i think

group call or screamo group called a race trader where there was just like very hard and very like

screaming vocals whatever and i think that this allowed a whole generation to kind of soften a little bit also and be like we can write pops on because okay guys you know like don't be scared it's gonna be fine and actually it's great um and like that i think is a bigger shift that they helped us around totally not prior said about the title that that it came from gym talking to his mom on the phone um he said he was telling about the record and all the shows they were going to

do and they're having so much fun and she said well you definitely have something to write home about and they were like oh well all our lyrics are really about leaving homes seeing the world being a bunch of kids that dropped out of school to be in a rock band like that's the core of the album

“so that's how the name got minted i love that yes mom thanks mom sure talk about the art work”

quote quickly for what you know we did it i should have yeah i travel smart who at the time went

by the name fudge he's an amazing artist he's i think it has done a lot of like skateboard art work

sense and i mean he's he's a real fine artist but at the time he was just like their pal fudge that gym you know famously went to art school so went with him and they were like really on a deadline like they were like we need art and so they hit a fudge and they're like it's going to be a threefold gatefold record we want one painting that's going to go across the entire front cover and on the insides another painting two really long paintings and it needs to be in Santa Monica

by next Friday yeah and he was like i felt sick to my stomach i was like i have to go home i didn't even finish my beer they're out of bar and so he finishes and then i guess so they're they're backing Kansas town or Kansas City and rob pubs like he invites me to studio in this weird little

barn and he shows me the drawings of these punk dudes playing guitars and their faces are all

fucked up and they have horns it's like bearded ladies having a beer like side-chose step-a-son's cool he sounds really cool and rob pub was like um have we listened to the record it's not this aggressive i just feel like this is really match and and and Ryan books like can we just do something little softer so he's like oh i'm fucked man i'm totally fucked and he said i was sitting around my room wondering what i was gonna do i had this toy that my dad had that was his from the 50s

on a shelf of knick-knacks it's like a wind-up toy i started to draw that robot and then i thought of robots caring for each other i liked that the dichotomy of these robotic things that i feelings for each other and they're sharing this tender moment on the couch and i and that thing that makes a lot of sense with the record much more sense than the it's so funny you do think that you know who did not think that was map rire he was like okay so he sees it at the end and he's like

what the fuck do robots have to do with anything the songs the lyrics the album title none of

“them indicate robots find fuck it there's no time to debate it i think he's come around to it”

sense and he said that he kind of thinks that like maybe travels more invented this like retroactively invented the story about yeah but anyways either way i think i can't think of the album without thinking of the artwork sorry i know i'm laughing some trying to imagine the record but it just about robots right it's like actually about robots but it's kind of like it's who what fall in love who fall in love or mad about how their label had treated them they're granddaddy yeah that

record to me but um i feel yeah like that's interesting i also think that also helped tell the record frankly like if you're uh young woman you know that's a nice cover you're like that sounds pink in it you think that it's appealing to women i think it was there there appealed to women to make the cover pink in purple uh no i also just came out colors feet for ladies sure um it also just sets it apart in this like it is a little yeah again the the youth thing i think it's a very like

“it's because their other covers are kind of classic emo it's exactly i think i was going to say”

it's it's more uh your vegetable like it's like it's like a very like memorable it's figurative i think so that's the joke about emo covers right it's like okay this is a roof with snow on it that's the american football like they're all just like this very like sort of illegible landscape type that was kind of the going thing for album artwork at the time and and they were like oh here's these two cartoons we're about to love each other and it was like oh interesting yeah softer it's

sweeter yeah and that's also to me does sound like it because it's not to get too much in the cover but yeah just in terms of not a lot of bands were incorporating that much like kind of mogi sounding synth and i think that is a little bit yeah that's that's a great point well like you know that the anniversary also did that and i feel like they're covered to that record uh like the end of Detroit record uh is uh all things ordinary it's all pixelated because it's sound because you know

let's you already said it starts with holiday pixelids we did not fucking come to play a babe we

know two pixelids let's fucking go but it really is a way of being like i'm the tired wasting time right i've been enough bands yeah they all have failed to launch is like my one shot we have more time

“and ten times as much money and let's record because i think it was i think about just 40 that's”

my heard that they got from the grain at the end of the day i'm not sure but um that sounds i mean they definitely had six weeks instead of two and a half days so much better yeah but then also all new notebook i guess and i'll learn it back it's so interesting that the like lyrical considerations of these songs sort of go back and forth between love of my life i'm separated from you and label head you've uh at two brooteves stabbed me in my back and i hate you but

they still sound like love songs yeah yes like even it's very much Dave Matthew singing about

his lawyer number 41 which i thought was the most beautiful love song on earth and then i'm like facet by your lawyer um and holiday is about from what i can tell the situation with doghouse yeah no i mean it's also just i think anger was a very it was in you know in terms of uh and like

“maybe you could push it on to of course being angry at the world or angry at your hometown and i think”

that kind of vagueness even though it is about doghouse clearly yeah i mean it could also be about that's the that's kind of the magic trick of it it could be about the relationship it's really difficult to tell you know i guess i do talk about seeing you once a year because maybe i will see you on haul maybe i can see on holidays so the original opening lyric of see you at once a year and yeah we don't embrace comes back and it's maybe when they go through town on tour you know right

and i'm like all right fuck what i probably tell you talk um and yeah i think it's very what i think about this record i think that prior is spoken to it is like it's difficult it must be so difficult to sing on tour like i i'm not a singer or guitarist but these are like in terms of the pitch and also the amount of syllables like i feel like that's already emo gets like a lot of hate for like at least third wave where it's these very poetic booklets right like overwritten i don't

not overwritten in this case but it can be overwritten they really fit a lot of words in there the evidence presented self-accusingly i'm gonna can't even say like speak it you know and then he i think in in future interviews or later interviews is what we would say uh would would say like he wish that they recorded the record like half a step down or like it's just down a little bit because

it's hard to hit that every week even him yeah that makes a lot of sense it's funny i never

thought about that that i that is sort of such a tentful thing about emo is like the wordiness yeah yeah i'm just gonna tell you Valentine is one of the best songs that's ever been written and i will cry and constants aren't so constant anymore and i love it so much it's beautiful that's my journalism it's and that's really about like i all agree with you wholeheartedly and they don't i think play it anymore why yeah because i think it's about Adrienne from the anniversary i

so in order to forget to anniversary songs yeah okay there you go but uh that's a great interesting so again i i don't know if it is about her not but if it is an early version of mat writing from the perspective of rob right because rob didn't write these lyrics right not wrote them yeah um which is an interesting thing to do right i think that's the shows speak to his talent you know because i'm just like he can write love songs for

himself you can write them for their people and also i think that they've probably were just spending so much time together that they were just like like bouncing around ideas and it doesn't really matter right because it's like what it really is about is like being on torrent being away from someone you love right i'm you know we're gone all the time a world away yeah you know they do repeat a lot of lyrics i guess here because even saying world away like that's on

two of their biggest hits you know but yeah i think that's also part of why it was easy to let learn and easy for kids to learn because i like this not that many and uh but yeah no valentine i wish they still played live i like what Nikos Radis said about she said about it and spend she said this is a perfect snapshot of the way any distance emotional or or emotional or physical feels oceanic and scope here's a rather day the wrong song off the ap but a great song

a real um a real like a fuck you you know i wonder if that i mean your speculation fan

“pick on my part my one of that's why they wanted to put this on here because they were like”

you know what it wasn't enough to put on the EP yeah fuck you twice it's on the it's on the album that we left and went on another label to do yeah that's 100% why they did it if i can get

one for me i trusted misleading promises worth repeating how could you do this to me

loyal like brothers was very sweet and very like that must have hurt like now i understand and also the opening it with you've got some nerve you so like you know i have these are really imprint on my soul out of reach yeah i mean sobbing come on we think i've smuggled myself into new nationalities you'd be proud of me i don't really know what that means but i love it it's

“beautiful i think it's probably just time out to tour and he's yeah you know what this is smuggling”

myself in a nationalities in sport rare right and european tour yeah there was a lot made in the book about like again we have to keep around means i like 21 years old and 18 and 19 and 21 it's like a huge deal to go to europe you know i've read this interview from like just after came out where um they're like it's with Ryan and he's like 20 at the time he's like well we're old now so i don't know what comes next which is like oh baby you're 20 yeah i really i just the there's room

to believe out of sight out of mind out of reach start over is no way to begin come on come on

with when we talk about third wave emo it's like the people get embarrassed by it because it's

so vulnerable and because it's just so overly indulgent of like self-pitting and i think this struck a balance of like this is maybe it's not self-pitting but it opens up that door to that if it makes sense it's so wonderful because it's like unrepentantly like i love my girlfriend and i'm sad that i'm away from her and there's like no real posturing or you know you don't turn me funny yeah i do think it must be difficult to write these songs when you're 21 years old

“and then that's like who you are for the rest of your life and that's what everyone wants from you”

yeah i mean we'll talk about their later discogs and they went through a kind of classic band transformation that we see often of just kind of becoming adults really growing up because they grew up and then their fan base is still young or or is it feeling awesome to feel young yeah um out of reach just a fun fact also is that in the middle of making the record they got on the gossless is the benfolds five cool abortion song and uh Sarah Michelle Galler was there

Jim subject is pointed out because he was like oh my god we're in Hollywood but benfolds did a song or the bass player instead of playing the bass played the mug as a bass and so that's what inspired them to have Rob Pope play the mug on out of reach instead of the bass wow benfolds five that's a great sighting door there you go 10 minutes is a song that actually already come out as a sub pop singles they had a seven inch singles club thing and that was on there

10 minutes to downtown yeah it's that's too many it's too far but i got it like not in Los Angeles yeah nothing is it's just a downtown Kansas City thing who knows who knows who could know um it's a fun song it's fun i like it i think that drum the drum is good that's my it's my that's really strong yeah the drum is good my apology is constantly in my head fascinating you'll be accepting my apology the tanking things to see reesley right while it's like well of course

we're taking things to see reesley like this is the most serious thing you could do and it's just like it's very i feel for him yeah i'm a loaner dotty is probably my favorite it's kind of gone yeah apology is also great i don't think i can't say it's too fast i can't even say it's too high oh sing the praises you can do it come tomorrow but like they really attack that and i also just find any kind of i'm very compelled with whenever a vocal kind of starts before like i know there's

one of my favorite things in the world is when the song starts with the vocal first i don't

“enemies it comes in yeah i mean you have to do it sparingly obviously you can't just have it all”

over the record but when it works it's so effective it's so effective my apology has that too yeah that's my apology yes but yeah it's uh it's very uh that also is i think yeah the one i come back to the most of the news gets stuck in my head this one is an interesting one because Matt prior has said that he actually was one of his first attempts to write lyrics from someone else's perspective because he's not about him he said there are plenty of songs about other people but this is the

first one where i inhabit a different individual it couldn't be any less meat the songs about a one night stand that a friend had thus the immortal line from puy hermen becoming the title even though

subject matter was misogynistic that's misguided songs about two consenting adults who are having a fairly mature discussion about whether they want to make the previous evening into a broader relationship and ultimately decide they don't want to that some people thought i was

“singing about myself was hilarious and i think the book he says i was way too obsessed with honey white”

to ever like have any one night sound he was like again wife guy but yeah that's like one night doesn't mean the rest of my life right yeah also in the morning you know it's nice things in a call after from a roadside telephone yes i didn't have cell phone well they did but it was different today two thousand or maybe yes i guess i remember in 99 i would have been borrowing my mom's cell phone on the weekend when i went out right but i did not have my phone for just

emergencies yeah exactly yeah you're going to a party take my cell phone right i had a pager long good night long good night she's wipping again this is a this is a tear jerk or this album but the thing is it's so fun and it also sounds like it sounds like a pop song in a way that all pops on the side you know or like many of the best but again good night it's a word that comes up so much well he's if it makes so much sense when you have all this background right it's

like you're constantly on the phone to a person you love that you're never in the same place

because they live in a different city and you're always on tour so regardless it's constant phone calls right so you're always saying good night and being far away and having distance so i mean i

“can't fault him for writing about that over and over again that's what he's experiencing yeah but the”

nice thing is that if you're like you can read into that if you want but you can also just be taken at face body yeah or just reply it to you are not long distance relationship and just be like it's hard to we want the old days what is he saying this uh but back to the good old times before i won this whole album is like so well-paced i think also and it goes from like kind of like up yeah tempo to like more like sad songs really well and then brings it right home with

god tier all catch you amazing i'm i'm i also really like close to home which also does the

thing you're talking about of starting starting song they really love to do that starting the song with the vocals you know they do it well they do it well um and i'll i'll catch you map prior said that he remembered james like walked into a door and almost passed out and then went ahead and played the piano line to all catch you when he was fully concussed yeah that's that makes sense Jim stopped out by the way we're not James James sorry sorry uh James do we Jimmy do we uh like loves

like motar and like you know we like is classically trained as a pianist and like just i don't think

“i think that it's worth mentioning me because that he is just coming to this record with so much”

background and it's almost like i feel like a master but like child's play for him to be like adding this amazing i'm quite no problem i don't know why but the song that is constantly on loop in my head a lot of these but that that i should stare at receivers to receive her isn't fair

is always looping in my mind i just like i know it's like a kind of a simple word play but i just

love that word play no it's brilliant that i should stare at receivers to receive her isn't fair it's crazy in his book he talks about being on the phone with her at one point he's like expressing his fears about something feeling off in the relationship and like he's like i feel like you're hiding something from me and she's like why am but i can't tell you what it is but it's not bad just have to trust me and he says i tell her that i feel like this is one of those trust building exercises

that i'm going to fall over backwards and she's going to drop me and she said don't worry i'll catch you and he said you'll catch me and she said yeah i'll catch you so i think that this song comes right i got my arm hurts to do it anyway it's got to your album just really incredible can't you know i can't recreate what it felt like to hear it for the first time but it was like it's really magical i was really like even with Josh there well i didn't hear i don't think

i heard the entire album during that time but you know when i was alone and spending time without most like man what a you know what i didn't really get into Jimmy it world and totally an american so i cleared get up kids first crazy yeah so to me it was pretty like i it felt familiar as a fat records and warp tour girly because like like i said the vocal texture and tone is reminiscent of a lot of you know even fat mic a little bit you know and

happening and all this like kind of emotionality and this like it was just like really i don't really great to hear at the tender age of 18 years old yeah i guess we should say that there was like pop punk happening in the nineties i mean i was a huge link when i did so again like that was

my first favorite band so i was also you know able to sort of piece that together again i'm

a warp tour roll and so this kind of i think for people who felt i mean love link when i do too also one of my first favorite bands um but i i feel like maybe in terms of the next wave it's like this is more serious than that you know what i mean yeah but it reminded me a little more of my what was my favorite link when you told which was the first one oh because that's the first one i found because that's when that was when i found them and it is obviously there are more

jokesters but like it's it has that of a similar i think um love-lorn songs that are on there that play with the pop punk sensibility i mean it's not quite what got up because it's doing here but there was sort of a comp that it my brain was able to make i think that album does really

“well in an indiesense right yeah what you sort of that's why i'm like together yeah i don't”

know i mean you should talk to uh again a big rant uh and make sure i'm not lying but i was reading like

a excerpt from um our noise which is that book about murder records then because they talk about like touring with superchunk and how weird it was that they were headlining and superchunk was opening and it's like a man that it's which must be so crazy when you're like i'm opening for my child head here so that and on that i don't know why they even include this but yeah just the success of something's right home about which i think sold 150 i think is the number 150000

to be clear not just 150 um which doesn't feel like that much to me but i don't know i it is a lot it's a lot but the success of that is in part why interscope took a minority stake in vagrant after in 2001 yeah which that i took spoke to me about like the level of interest and also success that this brought for a really an even smaller label yeah i want to think at that time people were like crawling for the next bling point age too because bling point age was sort of

crossing over by the end by 2000 like right you know i don't know if it was because they were on an indie or or what what happened but they don't have a radio song you know and Jimmy World gets on the radio the next year but again they're on a major so it makes sense a little more sense why they were able to do that and obviously those songs were much more radio friendly right like the middle and sweetness are incredibly radio friendly yeah in a way that maybe as much as we love it's been

right at home about isn't just immediately it's more complicated maybe sweetness also in one of the best songs to ever do the vocal thing of starting but you listen um really hard for karaoke

“for that reason you have to really commit and trust yourself right as one radio to when you”

come in yeah yeah um so that was beautiful thank you so much but yeah i think i'm a singer like it's yeah it's pretty wordy it's pretty specific in a way i also think it's the vocal tone like again

i don't think that's become mainstream yeah like you get into the 2000s you get into the the third

wave emo bands and that is what you're signing up to get but it's not yet and you were not really hearing that on the radio anything people thought it was a little like nerdy yeah i just think it wasn't maybe it wasn't i don't want to speak for like the radio program right care off but i can imagine that coming across there and i mean like i don't know about this like this is too too like subculture it's not it's not you know we're we're still coming out of the era of big alternative music like

smashing pumpkins and like and then also obviously green days very huge and offspring are very huge in the mid-90s but they also have a much cleaner and bigger sound you know yeah yeah yeah

“they're heard from or hooks and i think like the thing there are hooks obviously like say good”

nightly mean goodbye yeah no you think my life will stop when you're like oh my song i could think of as mass bike i really thought i think mass bike could have been a radio hit yeah no that's true because of that because it's it is the it is catchy pop punk in the way that like would have sort of fit in with the green days of the world yeah uh so i'm a mass bike tracer i love your commitment to it we need to talk about action and action but i think it's also a song

that it starts here it goes small like it doesn't you know it's really quite loud but it has different modes that might be harder to sell i mean like this is a consistent thing we're doing on their radio i think i have no idea that's a 100 was playing playing that's my okey said they did okay they hit 31 on the billboard heat secrets so it's charting um it got okay reviews pitchfork did give it a two pitchfork did not like jacrisson so he said

it isn't like it's one of my favorite things when the review that looks on pitchfork now is

by you um 25 years later in which it gets a 7.6 and they think that i don't know this stuff but the way back machine it is a dangerous thing for a woman like me to have but she has it but i

“have it and i will unearth the two review it is still up there i think but there is something”

in here that's like speaks to maybe what we're talking about how it's being received which is says these flaws would be easier he's talking about lyrical stuff and so these flaws would be easier to swallow if deliver was solar convention instead we're left with the nasal whining of another pompidured youth who recently received his degree from the bratty school of Caucasian nostril singing along with his classmates the guy from lit the guy from smash mouth

the guy from blink one a two and the guy from show off i don't know what show off is um well blink

way to define but i like i maybe that was where they're getting placed into the category of oh we're a new thing is happening it's kind of you know i mean lit and i mean lit and smash with wrong the radio so i don't know so smash mouth so i don't see any similarities zero what are you talking about zero that guy doesn't i don't think he has an easily voice zero that's it also the guy from lit doesn't really have an easily voice either yeah lit you're new from the

and the mouth things and whatever i've downloaded that song my own word sent me from like lime wine to call you that yeah um it was a classified simply going to do something classic thing that could happen if you're downloading stuff from lime wire into 2005 is that things would just be like wrong as well as you're giving yourself an irreversible uh virus to your computer yeah well that's fine but i needed to know that lit song that song sure for me too it was embarrassing

it got otherwise good reviews like enemy gave it a seven the reviews that it got outside of pitch work we're pretty positive and then they toured for three years nonstop and to promote this record you're up Japan Australia they they toured with green day they toured with the anniversary they toured with hot rots or get hot rots or get hot rots or get hot rots or get hot rots oh that's so good you're nice they're the best yeah uh wezer importantly whoa and jepadaya so they they pounded

the pavement they were out here in the street it must have been so exhausting i can't imagine because they have had been on tour already like for you know you're 21 but you're right if you're really fun go out there i like a lot of the uh articles i read from this time were like including even that um merge records book were just like they had a bus like that was how people knew they were like big time yeah it's like they were kind of projecting this energy of

being a big band because they had a tour bus and they didn't read something about that it's like they they they got a good deal on it but also yeah it was like some sort of like weird like very good deal they got it and also a lot they were touring so much that it was like people were getting into pretty bad car accidents on these kinds of tour circuit the overnight drives and

“stuff and so they were trying to just like be safe as well and i think vagrant was able to help them”

out with it maybe thanks to this 10% stake for mentorship i don't know um it doesn't truly matter but i think they deserve a tour bus i'm just saying it was just funny that like all the articles they're like sellouts sellouts and yeah even then there's that article that yeah the CMJ

2000 article they're like talking to Ryan and he's like first always like i'm 20 and i'm old and then

they're like what do you think about emo core was what they're calling it the emo core they're one of everyone's lips um and Ryan's like getting labeled emo we're over it calls when you want to call us it already already it's course like before that you know what i mean nobody wanted to be called the emo no and nobody who he does now and the people do now i guess yeah i think now people are because we need so much more things the expansive fact that i think it felt like a slower i'm sure

and uh you know they're already over it like you know two albums then i don't know which are really like and before it even they knew what it would become you know and what they would roll i mean

“i think i read something i can't i don't read right the quote down but it was something to”

the effect of like yeah like we knew those other bands and we played with them but it's not like we were like oh we're like Andy Warhol's factory we must like capture the magic of the scene like it wasn't that you know yeah well the next year in 2000 not the next year two years later they put out arguably one of their best releases in my humble opinion which is udora the besides uh compilation because this has like a bunch of their covers which you mentioned earlier

but their cover of all like i full by the pixies is really so good it's so good and it's again i'm not a musician um but it sounds like it would be very difficult so i need to choose to cover just in terms of how fast and also his well again voice is higher and faster than yeah um black friends of black friends is right back yeah there's also a cover of suffrage at city yeah

that too yeah it makes perfect sense for them one to the synth you know yeah it's really nice and also regret they're gonna order cover anyway these are all it's a great also they're choosing really good songs yeah and it's just this is a great it's a great home there's that their B-sides are great so like ten minutes is on here and our birds on here um i'm a learner dotty shorty the breathing method for the first seven new found interest in messages it's great also

“somewhere in here uh map prior i think it was in 2000 he released his first album with the new”

Amsterdam's which is like a side project that he wanted to do yeah what do you think about the new Amsterdam's i like it i like folk music folkie type music and i wouldn't call it folk music per se but it's definitely folk music yeah you know i i quite like it but it does you just kind of start to i feel like show you like oh maybe there's like inside me there are two wolves situation is happening yes you know um the accordion right is a distinct sound it has a specific sound

yeah um i don't mind it so in 2002 also he puts out another new Amsterdam's album called part of Tota Vida um that same year the hotly anticipated third get up kids album comes out it's called on a wire is produced by Scott lit um they had i guess wanted some they had put uh this list of produced together like they wanted Steven Street who famous they worked with the Smith John Lecky who i mean what a legend had done maybe most recently probably radio had but also

you know the stone roses and just an amazing producer nagged Nigel Godridge also had worked

with radio head gal Martin with pixie's none of these ones paned out but they did end up going with Scott lit who had basically produced a lot of rm albums and also kind of famously unlike in

“some ways contingency been tapped i think he did the mixing on in utero for Nirvana but he'd also been”

tapped to re-produced two singles and make them like more radio friendly so albini taking albini's production and like sort of polishing it up Rob Pope said i remember we were like we want to make the biggest record ever and in our heads at that point we wanted to be on the radio Scott lit had a pretty good success rate with that this album is their promised rings wood water um i think was a similar trajectory right everyone loved promised rings uh nothing feels good and then they

sort of wood water comes out and they took a departure and sound although i think now people have reassessed wood water it's still not when i returned to as much but i've been honest here i'm

nothing if not a completely honest person yeah i never listened to the guy that gets after something

right home about until i was doing this podcast yeah things just changed my interest changed they changed they changed but it wasn't i just like by this point i'd like i'm leaving college i'm very interested in the smiths and dipset and partying and i'm not really checking for new music arguably for ten warriors perfect combo so i can't speak so what it was like to experience this album in real time as it get up kids fan but i think i can kind of have a sense of it given

and how it went how it went yeah and also just like using my my two brain cells which is that some things right at home about was really beloved really celebrated and this album sounds

“just completely different and i think if that's what the peat the fans it sounds completely”

different than pretty much everything that came before it so i can see kind of diehard fans being like oh i don't know what to do with this oh yeah i just feel bad for the fan uh because i'm like well they're probably going to shows and getting so bummed out by all these bands like you know they're because that's what you're talking about is like you want to feel young or like capture that youthful energy and certainly on a wire is that i would say that direct opposite and it's like

not a album you can like escape your misery through it's more of a like let's take it slow and actually be really miserable yeah it's what i found really interesting is that like which makes so much sense like these are kids still kind of kids but that had like grown up in indian punk

and like had never really actually had the chance to discover classic bands that sort of like

maybe other young people would have already gone through their phase with like literally like the Beatles and Led Zeppelin and and that is informing a lot of like what they do with

to get very formulaic with stuff we were touring on something to write home about for two and a

half years and we were sick of it we were all listening to different music i got into Steve Earl Wilcoe and a lot of troubadour like alternative country and singer songwriter stuff um so on on a wire it probably felt a little folkier than it necessarily needed to be to completely honest we just assumed everyone was on the same page as us we thought yeah this is different but it's good so when we got a negative reaction we didn't see where I was coming from yeah and they really created a scene

around them at that point that sounded like they're actually you know they had rocked all these other bands and and vagrant had signed a lot of the dashboard confessional saves the day saves the day it's very funny because Matt prior and I respected so much at every stage has kind of had the same thing about this album which is that at the time like kind of right away we didn't really didn't give too shit to anyone like the record or not we were really confident that we were

going to kill this emo stigma that we had and take the people with open minds with us and leave

everyone else in the dust and later he was like I love that record and so ultimately I don't give

two fucks of anyone else likes it people snap to a lot of judgments about that record and then even later 2011 he's like it's certainly not a perfect record there's some filler on there that would

“not be there if I looked at it with clear head I think the songs that are on that record are”

good and some of the best songs I've ever written and we've ever recorded so he's like I love this record and fuck you guys and in 2024 he talked to the ringer and was talking about this so I know it was like yeah he's just said some of the songs on a wire are some of the best songs of a written but he thought that heavier rock aspect got neutered in the production of it well okay here's that's a great I'm glad you said that because they had they really they did not mesh well

let's got it so that was kind of a content just working relationship they just didn't see eye to eye about how they wanted the album to sound like and I think it caused a lot of problems and probably negatively affected the sound of the album in terms of what I presume they might have wanted it to sound like I don't know what that is but what we got was the result of sort of like not being on the same page with the producer yeah yeah that makes sense to me and it's a very

jowener not even downer in the same way of like emo downer but they're like lyrically it's very existential it's very like there's a song that was like listening through and I was like all that I know and I don't want to just make fun of somebody's lyrics but there's like I wouldn't I would say making fun it just they're a lot of like Zen cones in there where it's like

“all we are is part of everything all you need to know is anything that's happening is happening”

where it's a bit like a picture like Edward Sharpie like Ryan it's a bit more little touch-holicy yeah for sure a little circular well you know look I think there's a couple of good songs on here like I actually really like walking on a wire so it's gonna say and campfire cans this I quite like too but again I like acoustic focus up but I by and large for me this is not a Edward oh that was a revenge pig no no and I understand

perhaps why the fan base was like we're all set on that not because it's not good but again because like you're going you're going to the 7/11 to get a slurpy and they're like well sorry what we have now is we brush shot you know like it's just like right both are good but that's not what you want you want to slurpy yeah you know exactly that's a good way of putting it I don't know that's a correct metaphor but you go when I'm saying it's more adult it's more adult yeah

and they're they found that's upland and they decided to go here I'm sure it was probably pretty depressing and it's again it's like a lot of sliding doors on the trajectory of this band because like what if they did make a nut what if they had made guilt show exactly as their next one

“as their next one would have been totally different I think about this all the time because guilt”

shows really good it was supposed to be hangers it's a more in line with what they were doing but also is it growth and maturity it's not exact it's not something to write home about part two yeah but also by this time it's 2004 and I think the momentum around them has has been sort of severely

impeded by the reaction to unaware which by the way got really good critical reviews on the

wire on a wire to yes I interesting yeah I mean it is more critically like a cat nap kind of that has a lot of extra it was like a real a real sharp difference between the critical reception and the people's reception but so okay well let's talk about guilt show so that's

sort of made their prior you know four minute mile and and he also has recorded with Reggie he's

kind of the to their guy they're they're like secret other member basically this is really

funny apparently they so they were there was less collaborative like Matt prior really like wrote and demoed most of songs and they fleshed out he said the point of every record you make is to try to make all the other ones obsolete and that's the goal with this one I would say by far it's the best record we've ever done I think that's really interesting I don't know if that's every musician's goal but I think it was their goal and that does sort of contextualize

what you hear especially with on a wire yes like they were trying to get so far away from something to write home about we were as their past yeah yeah and they kind of did and it's also guilt show is like they're adults there's a adult sorry keep saying that but like not just I mean they're they're now and they're like early to mid 20s yeah some of the members are married already

“I think and maybe about to not be married in about we're not married and that's why maybe there's”

some deeper that's right yeah yeah of course record to me Matt yeah right because Rob Pope is in the process of divorcing Adrian Verhoven right I think James maybe also going through divorce I believe Jim on his honeymoon and Matt happily married um and this is really funny Matt so they also did this in a studio they had purchased um and renamed black lodge they actually sold their imprint back to vagrant to buy it Matt said in 2011 I think this is a good solid record

we weren't getting along very well at the time Rob Ryan and I wrote a lot of it some of it while Jim was on his honeymoon James was MIA because he was doing Reggie and a lot of coke okay we would have we would have practiced scheduled for noon and we wouldn't see James for three days then he'd come in the studio song was totally written he wasn't involved at all and they'd just slayed on the keys and say later I'm gonna go smoke he was like slash or something I love that was really funny

I like how all these piano parts that we've talked about are kind of seemingly added in states of like altered states right James was going through it or he was having a rough time of it so he's just doing

“doing it he was doing it yeah that's why the next Reggie and the full effect album sounds”

to not not get married to yes yeah to your point this is this is kind of the divorce album and it's it was very intentional because Matt prior said my personal life is great and it was great at the time of the record I don't think that would translate into a good song so he sort of like sounds like mostly wrote from the perspective of Rob and his divorce yeah it's a good divorce record if you're kind of like it's a good divorce rock record another really good divorce rock record cursive domestic

domestic uh if you ever go through it of course yeah like the back one nice yeah uh because it's hard to make that sound like not vengeful but I feel like there's a lot of genuinely real feelings doing expressed in this album you know yeah going through that um and also it's funny to think that this was also somewhat media media fodder as well the idea of like the anniversary and the get-up kids kind of I am like what like alternate I have press or yeah just like there's probably some

a four like live journal sure one of they didn't yeah I was talking about totally well also that

“I thought was like oh maybe that's why they part of the reason they sold them print too because like”

the anniversary is on the imprint the canopy uh confusing I think it kind of ended up I don't know

I'm not there but the anniversary never really came back I think from this event because it was to me

I think I think they also kind of broke up early after but yeah I think it had a big impact on both hands you can say yeah this album was very critically well not very but like decently a review um I think it's better than on a wire personally or like or at least I'm getting more of what I want out of it um it from jump it starts out more like more energetic and upbeat hot rod circuit guy Jason Russell is actually does vocals on the first song yes man of conviction I love the one you

want yes I think it's such a great song yes I was finally also highlighted yeah and it's it's as catchy I would say also as I don't know there are there or something to write home about I don't know it feels like we are getting more to songs that you could actually sing and dance along do yeah but my favorite on this is sick and her skin I love that song interesting yeah I just feel like it's

like a really viby song that sort of like explodes into something like really powerful I really love it

it's it's kind of like they really succeeded there for me and if what they were trying to do is make something really different from what they did before but still have it be accessible and and emotionally evocative because I didn't really feel that way about the song going on a wire and again maybe it's just I had haven't spent enough time because again this is

anyways that's that's a guilt show I think it's I think it was a good return

esk to form or to a form that was more similar to their form before um they go on a big tour for this to open for dashboard confessional yes on the Honda Civic tour again already kind of a glimpse to thrice as well okay so sorry to thrice it's also a thrice um I just think it's interesting and I think you can speak to it more probably but like this is like the time where they're really being a clips and overshadowed by the bands that they it's coming up from behind yeah

which in a lot of them they inspired like the follow-up boys of the world I don't know if they inspired dashboard or not but like you know that's their label made that came after them for sure

yeah I think we were also getting like it's funny because the pettiness of the label stuff

“pre like that's how I'd have find third wave emo and I think about it like I think”

empirically it's a lot about score settling and seeing settling and being the idea of fame itself the label gazing yeah like so I think that set the tone for this almost a bit more um not like yeah pettiness of the world but but those kind of lyrical concerns I think yeah really blood into next generation and that's why people this often derided but yeah that that is probably really eerie to watch these people rise yeah I can't imagine it's good for morale especially if you're

already like having a lot of inner band turmoil around this time Rob Pope said in an alternate press interview if emo rock is remembered for all these brand new upstart bands that get signed to drive through records then yeah that would but must out a little since we have been pigeonholed into that whole thing um yeah they're having a bad time the vibes are bad the live shows are deteriorating uh Rob Pope and Jim Subject both threatened to quit multiple times on this tour

after that tour they go on their own world tour finally at some point in Australia map prior

has like a full breakdown he stressed he has children too baby yeah too baby is a two-year-old

“and I think like or about to be born I think maybe one is about to be born she's back home”

and he's just like I don't want to be here like I want to be home with my family I don't want to do this so he I think from what I understood he sort of was like oh I want to pull back contouring and the rest of the band was like we're either we should do it or not do it and so they're like okay well this will be our last tour yeah they wake up they announced on the website in 2005 we're working up all the all the kids go crazy yes and you know I think that it was

like around the same time also that these other bands like the anniversary were waking up and I think people just kind of laid onto it a bit more of that narrative but yeah I did feel they did tour I guess not that long after which is funny like they did a fair wall tour yeah but that in July of 2005 but yeah no it's it felt like the end cap and that makes sense in terms of like the arc of their original lineup in terms of ending with guilt show it feels like they did what they

had like they came home you know yeah and then again like they they've been everything's supplanted them right like follow boy painting of the disco the paramour has come out feel my ramen is uh blowing up yeah and then we also had like my cam the use def cab taking back Sunday like there's a whole swell of massive emo bands like getting radio hits exact insane to think that like sugar

“we're going down and also um god what I can't I think of Paga just go song to anymore but uh I”

right just not try yeah yeah it must have been a very weird time to be in that band and like also feel like you can't really like you can't be more mature because the uh Mark's is not letting the work get out um so yeah they call it quits more nuanced rhythms albums come out um Rob Pope joined spoon maybe 10 years ago I was backstage at some random festival and like Pomona or something with my friends the black lips and I was quite drunk and I somehow I think I'm smoking a cigarette

with like striking am a conversation with this guy in a suit backstage and somehow emo comes up no idea how again I was quite drunk and I think this is something the effect of like yeah my you don't fuck with get up kids so I I love get up guy I love get up kids and he goes that was my band I started that band because it was Rob Pope because spoon was playing but I had no idea to say I don't know what Rob Pope looks like and then I screamed and he's he was like oh my god and I was like oh my god

and then we hugged I love that he was a really beautiful moment is for me he also thought it was

you know when you're quite drunk you were think you remember everyone else being quite drunk yes

yeah that was a fun moment for me um then in 2009 they did attend your anniversary tour I got back together to tour something to write home about um and I guess they had so much fun they were like actually we're gonna sell fun to record we're gonna make another record yeah we're gonna make one

“we're gonna get back into it 2011 there are rules it's fun yeah it's it's fun I think they wanted”

more especially when you're putting your own money because I don't think vegan I think that is self do they self release that or no is that on yeah it's on their quality hill album or I like their label yeah yeah good name but yeah I feel like it sounds good for what that budget isn't also

for guys who hadn't played together in a while writing music for the first time but you could

say that sounds exciting like it sounds like they're excited to be back in the band is what I think when I listen to that record um because you know even like Dui's was he on in the band at that point or did he it's like but he had recorded other stuff with like Reggie in the meantime that like hadn't involved the band so I'm sure they were just you I don't know you can hear I think the excitement to be recording again but I don't think it did very well it didn't really pick up

2011 we're talking we're now we're talking actual Edward Sharp probably or like it's just a different manny Edward Sharp yeah it's being brought up on this I don't know um I'll tell you

what I really like that song shadow your lungs is it an extremely 2011 song yes yeah but

actually kind of really like this album yeah it's very not get up kidzy if you've only heard something to write home about but it's it's good it's very 2011 and there's a lot of you sort of like it sounds more electronic key it's good I like yeah automatic it's if you're down for that automatic can be fun and it's also his it's cool to see a map prior is writing

“of all over these records and I think he gets much more experimental in the stories he's”

telling and you know is writing kind of poetry if you will about like modern society when you write like read the lyrics of automatic or whatever like the kids alone just watching static yeah it's very evocative I think it's good I like I genuinely think it's like I really enjoyed listening to it and I was like I think it's cool that they like kind of tapped back in and again like they're not gonna try to make what they made 10 years ago or 12 years ago so like they do make

something that's more of its time which I think is cool and I liked it and then they go back on hi it is because it didn't do well um let's stop yeah um they do various other pursuits you know I think musical and musical I believe I read Matt prior became a farm hand he also became a huge booty over the years and he's very into cooking in food of them I'd watch his cooking show yeah he's he knows a lot about I interviewed him for the now defunct 24 question party people that was

on this feed and he was really great um really smart guy Jim septic worked a nonprofit for right ampities for ampities correct yeah steps for faith which is anyway that's nice yeah they were doing you know they were doing this thing James doing was in my chemical romance oh yes of course

“I played with she's yeah yeah so he was doing probably quite well yeah like pretty good I think like”

post band kind of filling in for keyboard of yours yeah him and Rob hope I think kind of did the best music yeah or yeah and the new amp streams was still going so that's all time yeah yeah and in 2017 so then get up kids played when we were young so now they're sort of a revival you know nostalgia band um did you go to this I did all right I bigus scares me I have to be honest understandable I really intimidated by I guess and I wish and also I was feeling at this time a bit

personally distance from the scene and thought a bit like it was a bit cost play is how I don't know I feel still about these massive festivals but I'm very happy that these bands are getting opportunities to play I would love to go to the last one because of Jimmy World's set list was really a fucking out of this world but Morrissey performed at this one yeah that's crazy so strange I just brought up because it's crazy and they had no um meet cause Morrissey will

not allow me anywhere he put the performance so the entire festival had was not allowed to sell any meat um the band was at the bar before they were playing and they were like tree should we do it again what's next we're on this back should we get up kids again um so they do and they signed to polyvinyl and they put out an EPN 2018 called kicker and an album in 2019

year to put out their first album in a while because it was also the 20 year anniversary of something right now about what he wrote so you're kind of doing well yeah but he said I divided the get-up kids family so people who only like the first two albums drag my ass to hell and a smaller contingent of ones who've stuck with them the whole time and problems isn't a return to form that will

immediately placate the form a group which is true but problems good yeah the problem is me

which is a funny time to have an album called problems is really really catchy and like could be it just sounds like people who are like experts at writing hooks at this point which they kind of are you know do you think Taylor Swift heard that and it inspired her because you know Taylor Swift a known Jimmy World fan I didn't know that actually that's where to chief encounter like from youth or like you think I think for me that she she put a

Jimmy World song on one of her like playlists of like love song something like she's talked about she likes how much makes a lot of sense actually we talk about in the Jimmy World episode like sure it's similar like confessional song writing stuff yes but yeah I mean like if you if you fuck with Jimmy World there's it's not a leap to think that you would like maybe check out the new

getup kids I'm just saying the problem is me I'm the prime of me yeah yeah yeah and you're

“so I feel also just just a couple years later so yeah that's true yeah credit them that's what”

getup kids have gotten up to again Peter Katz's producer I think it's I don't want to say surprisingly good because that's rude but that's all but you know for later era music from a band that has gone through a lot of shifts in sound yeah for better for worse I think where they've landed here is like quite satisfied I agree yeah I think well I think what maybe you're just reading to is that a lot of bands that are around this long feel like they need to read as they said like

I forget how I put it but make the other albums obsolete and continue to easily kind of reinvent the wheel every time in a way that's a bit exhausting sometimes it's a fan because you like it band because you like what they are doing on the current record and obviously there's massive exceptions to that but I think it's nice to that they make new songs that they know their fans

“are gonna like or I don't know if that's why they're doing it but they maybe you saw I you know”

this is the most the last thing I'll say in fan fake motel it's like I assume the need to distance from your popular past self is extremely intense when you're young and quite close to it and then the older and further away you get you sort of assimilate all of the versions of yourself right you kind of put your arms around all of the parts that you were and they all become one thing and you're more able to tap into all of it at once without feeling any sort of way

about them that's just what I hope happens as we age that would be really nice yeah and yeah I think it's just as it's interesting like I can't you know like as we're talking

with James Doese amazing new record 41 and by new i mean almost a decade old right yeah I

think there's a lot of reckoning with age on this record but also a lot that can be still applied to like a 14 year old who's listening to it at home or something like this which I think they're really good at yeah and that my friends concludes for now I don't know what they're up to right now maybe they're working on on the album uh this story I have to get up kids yeah they uh toward in 2024 I think in support yeah it was great I'm also extremely sad that I missed

this something to write at home about touring because it was really good to be honest well Ariel

“happy song you should have been me um you guys thank you so much for listening”

Ariel thank you so much for being a wonderful guest come back next week for a new episode of bandlane if you liked what you heard today subscribe for more episodes of band's plan our guest today was Ariel Gordon this episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales video production by Bell Roman executive producers for band's plan Argina Delvac and me Yasi Solic our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed

by Bethany Cossain Tino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos Delagarza and Los Angeles California special thanks to our producer emeritus producer Dylan aka Dylan Tupper Rupert and also Sean Fenise and those archer beef jerky is the long sticks come back every Thursday for a new episode of band's plan on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts I did not know that that's how I switched into a new world and it's changing everything I think