Part Four: The Phil Spector Episodes

Hey everybody, Robert here and the International Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences have announced

“that three different cool zone media shows have been nominated for awards at the 30th”

Annual Webby Awards. You can vote on these now if you're just Google the name of the podcast and the category behind the bastards is been nominated in the experimental and innovation podcasts category. It could happen here is in the news and politics podcasts category and James Stoutz miniseries migrating to America a dream worth dying for has been nominated in the podcast documentary category.

And you can find links to vote for each of these podcasts in the episode description and in the post on social media for episodes of the cap and here and behind the bastards. Thank you. [MUSIC] Welcome back to behind the bastards, a podcast where I am presumably on vacation or at least

working on a different series of episodes. And this week as for the last three episodes, my good pal, Grammy award winning. Greasy will. This guy's here. Wow, this here to talk to us.

This guy is here to talk to us about part four of Phil Spectre, which

“I think is a good character to partner and to be fair, I've been drinking the whole time.”

But now I feel like this is a celebratory shot, which is out of, we the celebratory show is come out of it in two different recording days, folks. Yeah, so I can get real it.

Because if we'd had to keep going on the first one, wouldn't it be all?

Yeah, I just wanted to keep you alive. Yeah, but by the way, I have some words for your viewers. Uh-oh, oh no. After the Grammy, I was going to take the shot first. Uh, hey guys.

I love that. Hey guys, how about, how about, let's not talk about my appearance. You know, these dark circles under my eyes are genetic. Every person in my family who has a drug or alcohol addiction gets them. So this is rude of you to just assume I'm drinking too much.

Yeah, it was a podcast. Sorry for having fun, you know? Uh, he still got the job done. Yeah, this is really great. I made it through and then look what you got out of this.

You got me saying, dang dude, I should tell them about Phil Spector. Because not everybody knows the whole story of Phil Spector. And it's so incredibly interesting. Which is where we will pick up after a word from these sponsors, whatever. Wow.

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And we're back! I always wanted to say that it felt right.

Thanks, yeah, I know, I'm actually, I stream every week, I do, I spend a lot of time on the

internet, I'm so good at talking to nobody, so it's amazing to have somebody to actually talk back to.

Normally it's just like the comment section on one of my stupid-ass videos, which, you know, don't, we'll be at a comment section.

“So, Phil Spectre, he just had an article written, the, I think this is one of the most”

insane cause and effects of history that has ever happened, because Phil Spectre, he has this journalist come, and this journalist writes a piece on him for the, uh, for, um, interview magazine, or some, I wrote it down, but I don't remember, so let's just pretend I said it. So he, he writes an article for me, puts it in this magazine, and it comes out and fill breaks his sobriety, loses it, starts drinking, menacingly, right? Right, he loses his mind,

he's, he's, he's kind of, it's, it's not a positive article. It's positive in the sense that it's like, hey, I'm talking about Phil Spectre, he's got to relevant, yeah, yeah, but it's negative in the fact that like Phil sees all of the bad things that this guy says about him, and he, he, he, uh, starts drinking again, and he finds himself on the night of February, second, 2003 at the house of Blues. Okay, this is where he will run into Lana Clarkson. And I feel as though we, uh, we do not,

I mean, it's hard to give victims as much attention as they deserve, right? It's like that's, that's, that's a very difficult thing because the interesting part of this whole thing is that Phil Spectre is fucking insane. Soxan. And yes. And this was a fairly normal Los Angeles person living their life. And so, uh, it's like the bulk of the story lies on Crazy Boy, right? So, um, yeah, I do want to spend just a moment first off to show you Lana Clarkson. You know, she's beautiful.

She's, she's, this is her, like, almost 40 years old, probably. She is, she is a beautiful woman. She was an actress. She worked in Hollywood. Uh, she, friends, had many friends. She had a lot of friends. A lot of people remembered her lovingly when, when she was gone. All right. So, this is our story of Lana Clarkson. Lana Clarkson was born on April 5, 1962 in Long Beach, California. And she grew

up in the Southern California endless orbit of Hollywood. You know, it's like the industry always

feels really close to you when you're in Los Angeles. No matter what suburb you in, it feels like you're, you're, you're not far from the big leagues, right? Oh, yeah. From an early age, she gravitated towards performance. And at six feet tall, she had a striking presence that made her hard to ignore. Like many Angelinos, Clarkson absorbed the idea that Hollywood rewarded persistence. And if you stayed visible long enough, something would eventually break your way. And I think that's a very

reasonable, yeah Los Angeles feel. It's like, you know, there is a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, hey, you could make it at any time here, kind of feels. And it's, it's true in that,

“like, it is the only way people who aren't born into the industry or whatever succeed. But if you”

are not a nettle baby, right, this is the only thing that works. But also, it still fails for 90 percent of people. 99 percent. I mean, I mean, yeah, I'm being, yeah, that's a very optimistic idea. Yeah, it's, it's, it's not, it does not go well for a lot of people. But, no, I mean, yeah, we're sitting here as two of the people in our own fields who like managed to make it through that 99 percent thing. And it is like, I know that a lot of people who, yes, you know, wound up somewhere else.

I went to school with like 75 people. And I know one of them that still has a job in the audio world. And that is just the, I know the class before me, the class after me, I know like, I, I know hundreds of people that came in with me. And I know none of them still having jobs. It's wonderful to tell people to chase their dreams. You're also, you don't lie to them when you do it. Yeah. Like, yeah, you can chase your dreams for a while. You know, have an exit plan. Have

an exit plan. Just like just rationalize rationalize to yourself. Like, here's a thing, right? This is what I tell people about this, which I think is the best advice. If you're the

type of person who when people tell them you're never going to make it, go like, no, no, that's

you. I make it. I do it. I know and can tell me. In fact, I'm going to do it three times as hard

“because you said I couldn't. Yeah. Then maybe this life is for you. Yeah. Maybe if you thrive on”

people telling you to know and you think that that's the coolest thing ever. And you just want to shove it in their face. I'll show you how pretty you are. You don't know anything. I'm going to spite you third wife second wife. Yeah. All right. So by the nearly, early 1980s, she is landing

Richmond High. Yeah. She's a little background character in there. You know, her, her steadier work

came in genre films, where she became recognizable to audiences through fantasy and cult B movies, such as barbarian queen, barbarian queen, too, and death stalker feels very, you might remember me from such works as barbarian and barbarian queen, too. These are these are super B movie type things. In better years, we get weird about saying B movies as though we're supposed to call them like lesser grade movies. I don't know what, lesser off market. I don't know what, it's weird. They're

B movies. I don't know why that suddenly got PC in any way. And I'm granting about this right now because it made me mad at it was. But okay. Oh, it made me mad. There's a bunch of articles that I read

“about Monoclox and specifically that we're like, you should color a B movie actress. That's”

degrading. And I'm like, that's just no, we love to be, we call Bruce Campbell. Right. It's B and

be actor. Right. Exactly. Great. Anyway. Anyway. So, um, but so barbarian queen was actually produced by Robin Corman, who did the original in the 1960s little shop of horrors. So it wasn't, they're not like a prestige role, but she's connected. She's doing well. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, that's no, nobody. Yeah. Yeah. And um, they gave her a foothold in the industry and a loyal cult following, too. She's like a early comic book, you know, a Comic Con type thing. You know, like, uh, shoes show up to

those things and all the nerds are like barbarian queen. Uh, she does kind of, she's typecast, right? She's a six foot tall, beautiful blonde woman. She is very much typecast as either the, like, the warrior queen or the, the bimbo, right? She's like, she's in those two categories. And, you know,

“uh, when you start at reach in your 40s, that that's a tough one because you're not physically”

the same as you were when you were in your 20s doing, you know, action movies, swinging swords around and everything. Uh, and also, you know, it's like, as the bimbo role, it's like, you're starting to look older, right, of course. And I'm not trying to be derogatory, it's just the industry we live in. It's an honest thing that we have, you know, it's all we would. Um, so, as the years passed, though, she leans into the identity and, and she's a, a 10 in comic in genre conventions,

where she signs autographs, and she stays connected to a fan. She has a website in the early 2000s, which is something, you know, like, you're connecting that, that's the, you know, the heartbeat of nerds, if you had a website, you can't in the early 2000s. Um, uh, but, you know, Hollywood has a way of quietly moving on from people, and as the direct video boom of the 80s faded, so did many

“of the roles that had sustained her. Her career didn't collapse so much as just narrow, you know,”

it's a slow erosion of opportunity, and everybody in LA was going, it goes through it, you know, it's like, there's just less roles for the older woman than there is for the young, bucksome beauty or whatever, you know, um, in the early 2000s, while at a house party, she's dancing in her high heels, and she slips and falls breaking both of her wrists. Uh, accident derails her acting career because, of course, you're not going to do auditions with two broken wrists or

whatever, and I'm doing much. And, and, and, you know, she's starting to see her career kind of slipping. You, you, you can't, in the, in the world, in this world, in the, all the entertainment, we, you can't take a break, Robert, you know, that you work, yep, seven hundred days a year. Yeah, you are working, like, you are a busy bee over there doing episodes all the time, which is why I'm here. You gotta hustle otherwise the pod save guys, at least you will lie. Yes, and you have

an amazing productive output, but it is, you know, if you were to force to take a long break,

you know, it could damage your career because people move on, you know, that's just the fact of what happens. Um, yeah. So, she begins pivoting to comedy. She starts writing her own stand-up act and, like, she's trying to do other things, like, get out of her tight cast. Um, around 2002, while Clarkson was still pursuing acting, she takes a job at the house of blues on Sunset Strip. She gets a job working in the foundation room upstairs, which is where musicians

and industry figures and celebrities are all kind of hanging. It's the VIP room of the Hollywood Sunset Strip. Like, so, you know, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a good place to be still be and connected, right? Yeah. Like many who took those jobs, she understood that proximity could still mean possibility. And she hoped that meeting the right person might reopen doors that had quietly closed. Uh, it was the kind of compromise that Hollywood encourages you to, like,

stay close enough to the spotlight. So, you can kind of, you know, be in proximity of good things

going on, like, sometimes the phone just stops ringing and you gotta start hustling in different ways. Yeah. All right. On the night of February, second, uh, Clarkson was working there and, uh, she's still holding onto the idea that her story in Hollywood isn't finished. She's 40 years old, but she's still hopeful, still recognizable in certain circles, and still navigating that fragile space between past visibility and future chance. The night she met Phil Specter, uh, that would,

you know, ring her into infamy for the rest of her life, but obviously for the worst reason.

Yeah. Um, Lana's story is, the story of a, a billion people, right? It's like, we've seen so

many of these, you know, they, they flicker for a little bit, but they, you know, it's, it's hard. This is a hard city where there's not a lot of room to have a billion Robert Downey Juniors,

“right? We need, right? We, like, people will come and go. That's how it is. It's hard, uh,”

it's harder for a woman, probably, you know, like this town choose people up in spits or out. So, uh, but she's still hopeful. She is writing on her blogs, really hopeful things all the time. I'm excited about this. I wanted to, there's no, there's no air of, like, sadness around what, what is going on. And this is important because, um, she's about to end up dead and there's going to be a lot of doubt cast upon her mental state at this time. But yeah, seemingly, she's a very

happy person still believes in, like, the best will come for her. Right. When Clarkson first encountered specter, she was, she reportedly mistook him for a woman. Keep in mind, she's, she's six foot tall. He's five foot four. He's wearing big wigs. And, like, dressing all crazy. Like, he's got platform heels and shit. He's, why is he wearing, because he wants to be taller? Yeah, of course.

Yeah, mistakes. Yes. He looks like an old woman in Hollywood, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, by this time, he's like, he's wearing elaborate wigs in eccentric clothing and his theatrical presentation kind of become a part of his public persona. Right. All right. He walked, he walks right into the foundation room. No hesitation, just like, walks straight in there. And this is a high class VIP area. So a lot of Clarkson being the hostess

of the foundation room is like, hey, oh, hey, ma'am, Mrs. Lady, you know, she's like trying to stop

“him from walking, she doesn't know who he is. And he gives her the old. Don't you know who I am?”

I'm not a Mrs. Like, yeah. I'm feel fucking specter. Now, keep in mind, it's fucking 2003. Right. Yeah. Nobody's wearing cars in the 70s. It's been a minute. Right. Two whole generations have come and gone of people no longer listening to his music. Right. Absolutely. So it's like nobody knows who he is. And, you know, and this is a very classic elephant. You don't know who I am. You know who I am. I can't believe you don't know who I am.

Has happened to anybody who encountered somebody who was even slightly famous in Los Angeles that you did recognize. Right. Right. So I wanted to tell this side story because we're one of the funniest things that's ever happened to me in the industry. Yeah. I had a guy say that to me. You don't know who I am. Yeah. And I said, I said, no, and I know tons of people. So that is so embarrassing

for you. And they were like, and they were like, what's your name? You're never going to work

in this town again. And I was like, my name's Greasy Will, man. Write it down. Take a picture. I don't give a fuck. Yeah. What do you want to do? Yeah. And I was like, I hear that so often, it means nothing. It's lost all meaning to me. And he turns out, so it turns out the next day, he calls my last boss, the boss that I had at the time working at the studio. He calls her. And she says, and this is a quote from her. Direct quote, Candace Stewart. She's the homie.

“She said, you know that guy's killed people before. You should probably, you should probably not”

anger him. I don't know. Like, it can't do. Then she was like beefing with sugarnite. Yeah. No, no context of, or anything. Just you know that guy's killed people, right? How, not why, not where. All right. So, um, Lana's manager steps into the situation. You know, the, he, Phil loses my manager steps into, sorry, Mr. Spector. We've got to table for you. Let's put you down. Like, we got everything. And Lana is super embarrassed. She's super apologetic. Like,

she's pretty new to the job still. She hasn't been working there long. And, uh, and, you know, she's trying, she's doing this to meet people. And now she's just angered of what she perceives to be

a very powerful person in a horror. But, um, but again, it's like early 2000s. How was she supposed

her best to try and, like, give him extra attention. Oh, Mr. Spector and Phil seems to really enjoy

getting this like, oh, now you care about who I am feeling. You know, it's like, you know, he seems to

“really feel empowered by the whole thing. Uh, the waitress, if you remember, he goes, he went to”

downtown as with another date, uh, high school friend, um, then he takes her home because she's like, I don't, I don't want to get lit anymore and he was like, all right. So he takes her home and then he comes back, starts drinking with the waitress, right? Then he takes the waitress to the house of blues and then at the house of blues, the waitress is like, I don't want to drink anymore. I need to go home. I got to work tomorrow, right? It's like late. It's near closing time. He comes in, like,

very close to closing time. And it's late. It's like almost 2 a.m. And um, she's like, I'm trying to go home. So Phil's like, go, go have my driver take you home. Get the fuck out of here. I don't want to be seen with somebody not drinking. He's like, making fun of her. He's like, mad that she won't, she orders the water. He's like, nobody drinks water around me or you crazy in a party. Yeah,

“you don't want a party, you know? So, um, so he sends her home and then he starts trying to”

put his moves on Lana Clarkson, right? She's now, she's in a position of very serious power imbalance. You know, this is, there's a very wine-steen-esque power imbalance where now she, not only is she, you know, trying to make things up to him, but he's also feeling the joy of being in that situation and push things even further. He's like, yeah, have it sit down, have a drink with me and she's like, I can't. My boss says, no, he's like, tell your boss that I'll leave

if you don't sit down and have a drink. You're like, you know, he's, he's going off on this ship.

Yeah. Um, and he clearly has never gotten used to not having that much power. Yes, like, yeah,

for sure. He's still enjoys it. Like, for some people, it gets to that point and like, bro, it's not even like funny more. I only want to like, I just want to be left alone, you know? But for him, he clearly still is like, yes. Um, so, yeah, you know, I'm sure Lana let on that

“she was an actress, probably during the conversations. Um, because that's what you do, right?”

You've seen this situation a thousand times in Hollywood, because that's networking. That's what we believe networking is anyway. Um, so, uh, he's telling, you know, her, come back to my place, come back to my places. Almost closing time. We got to get out of here. Let's come back to my place and our hamburger. We'll talk about things. I'll show you some stuff. Uh, Phil, notoriously loved taking people to his house and showing them his like five seconds in easy rider all the time

and being like, not standing on my baby. Yeah. So I'm sure he was like, you know, I was an easy rider, right? Yeah. Yeah. However, I was not close. So, um, so the, the distance between the house and blues in Alhambra is far. That's what I'm saying. That's not close. That's far. It's far, right? It's like, yeah, this is, and this is important to this conversation because at two o'clock in the morning, you don't leave your safety network with an extremely intoxicated man no matter who it is.

Unless you're not feeling a bit like, I got to take a chance on this, like, this might be an opportunity for me. You know, and this is, this is very, this is just power balance, you know, it's just, what it is, it's how, it's how Hollywood operated for a long, long time. And it's only now starting to get even the tiniest bit better, follow me for no more inside studies of the horrible things that happened in this dam. Yeah. All right. So, um, she's 30, 30 miles away. You know, they're

going to get into his car and drive down Hombra. She has to be, according to everybody, she has to be really coerced. She does not want to do this, but Phil keeps being like, yeah, come on, come on. Let's do it. Let's do it, right? But also keep in mind that Phil is shit-housed, right man. Right. Like, he is a tiny man. He's maybe 140 pounds, maybe like, like 130 pounds, like he's five foot barely nothing, you know, like, and he's been drinking

navy grugs all night. If you've never had a navy grug, it's mostly alcohol. It's almost all out.

Yeah. I made my stomach hurt. Just thinking about a navy grug. It's, yeah, it's all out. It's also viral. Yes. But it's a lot. It's a lot alcohol. And he's been drinking them all night, right? He's slurring his words and, you know, even when he's not slurring, he's pretty not, like, when he's not drunk, he's like, pretty not understandable to begin. Yeah. And I want to show, because so I want to show this, I need you to understand, this is what he's like when he's sober.

This is an interview he gave and this is the types of things he says and how he sounds when he is sober, excellent. Did you all realize that Mickey Mouse was a black man?

First black star to win the Academy Award. He was black, he won mine. And he was black movie.

He was a movie. He was a black movie star and that was before. I was doing slavery again. All the people were going to steal and he didn't go for an accent. And it was Walt Disney's voice. I know what he paid for any attention to that. He brought the color line before anybody. Wow. I have a lot of notes on that. Oh, yeah. Do you Robert, please tell me tell me about the note you might have. Sounds like he's saying he was the first black movie star before Shirley Temple.

Yes, that's right. Yes, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yes, that's right. Shirley Temple was a black movie star. She was not. She was not black, right. But all right. No,

“here's here's all right. So that's what I think I think I think that Phil is making a joke”

because later in her life Shirley Temple took the name Shirley Temple. She made a man named Charles Black and took the name Shirley Temple. Oh my god. And that's the joke. I think he's making a joke, right? Okay. But, well, and you know, because there's this whole thing where like Mickey Mouse, I think there's an argument to be made is kind of like his character is based in part on designs from like menstrual shows. Right. Right. Right, right. He's like, hey, I thought maybe that was the argument.

He was making a joke. He's like, so he is like, that's what he sounds like sober. Right. You can imagine this dude 12, maybe grog's deep at 230 in the morning is litigable. It's like trying to, it's like trying to decipher an ancient to Syrian. Yes. All of all of his, all of the, the security footage shows him leaving the club stumbling, right? He gets in his car, he calls Lano over.

She finally is like, okay, fine. They arrive at his house around 3 a.m. after closing on the

house of Luz and filling Lano going side and our inside for about two hours. When outside, Phil's limo driver Adriano disus a, here's a loud noise. He gets out of his car and sees Phil walking out the front door of his house holding a revolver. He says to Adriano, I think I've killed somebody. Uh, you, you should listen to the 911 tapes. I did not get them because I'm a hack

“and a fraud just like, you know, it's, it's a lot of work. It can remember shit is hard. Yeah. You should”

listen to the 911 tapes because Adriano gets on the he says, I think my boss killed somebody. They're like, what makes you think that he's like, he's fucking said it. Well, he said it killed somebody. Also, by the way, quick, me some advice for those of you who are going to kill somebody. Don't say you killed somebody. Don't say you killed somebody. Not, not a brilliant move. Not exactly what I consider to be the most intelligent way to get out of a crime. It's just one simple change

you can make to your murders to have better, better responses to them folks. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. It's just just one little change when you kill someone. Little legal advice here. Past your legal advice? I shouldn't have made that. That's all I can not a lawyer, but I better lawyer will agree with me. Don't say you murdered someone.

“I'm going to make you a jingle for like the next one that's like, not actually legal advice.”

Yeah. That was great. I give a lot of out. Adriano is just a little backstory on him. He is an immigrant. He's a belief Brazilian immigrant. And he speaks English extremely well for somebody who has a Brazilian immigrant. He definitely has an accent without a doubt, but this will be called into, you know, the testimony for a lot of these. There will be a lot of questions about how much he understands English during this time. But if you listen to the

911 tapes, he clearly has a good ad grasp of English. He tries to call his, you know, Michelle Blaine, his Phil's manager or whatever, but she doesn't answer. And she says later, he's like, the only night she's ever left her phone in the car, which is really, really funny to me, because I actually picture that she was like, just like, for one night, like, I'm not answered,

Phil's fucking phone calls this guy's crazy. Because she does say he's always calling her in the

middle of it. All of his assistants, like, yeah, Phil calls me in the middle of the night just to like, be like, what are you doing? You know, hey, so I'm sure she was like, I left my phone in the car, but aside, right, um, the cops show up and they don't really know what's going on. They just, there's a gun. Somebody's been killed. So they show up and Phil, first they pull up and Phil is inside his house, just pacing back and forth. And they do a standard tactical approach, which makes

perfect fucking sense. And Phil comes outside and he's just rambling in coherently. They're like, start getting down in the ground. He's like, oh, fucking, you know, I didn't do anything. You know,

starts to be like, hey, guys, you got to check this out. There's like this woman, you know, like,

“he like, he starts playing like the worst dumb angle that I've ever seen where it was like,”

hey, you guys got to tell you guys you want to see this dead body? Like, and he keeps trying to stick his hands in his pockets. And at this point, the cops have no idea what's going on. They keep being like, take your hands out of your pocket, take your hands out of your pocket. But they won't dance in pocket. Yes, yeah, for cops. Yes, for sure. Hey, these are my hands. They're here. Look at them, police, video, you know. So he won't do it. He keeps sticking his hands and in his pockets and

they shoot him with a taser. And I don't know. Okay. I guess he doesn't get to do that. I don't know if

the taser bounced off of him and he just got an unlucky, like shot of the taser or if Phil was just,

like, in Hulk mode at that point or whatever, they just say the taser is ineffective in all the places. Right. So I don't know if he just is like, you know, he got hurts. I have known a couple of people that happen to have known someone who ripped the leads out. So it does happen from time to time. You a guy who ripped the leads out and then broke two cop dogs legs. It was George for attempted murder. So no surprise there. Right. And he was on a curculean amount of alcohol at the time.

That makes sense. Maybe a little meth who's saying, you know, but at that point. Yeah. So who else is on a little bit of meth? Well, a curculean amount probably according to my research. The sponsors of this show. Let's cut to him. In 2023, former Bachelor Star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.

This began a year's long court battle to prove the truth. You doctor this particular test twice in selling stress. I doctor the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Some like the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg O'Wespie and Uncle Mount Cheney. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.

Laura Scott Stelpoise. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at AmeriCorps County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice has served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trap podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

“Why hasn't a woman formally participated in a Formula One race weekend in over a decade?”

Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age? What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He's still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Waga Getting change the paddock forever? That day is just seared into my memory. I'm a culture writer and F1 expert Lily Hermann and these are just a few of the

questions I'm tackling on no grip. A Formula One culture podcast that dives into the underexplored pockets of the sport. In each episode a different guest tonight will go deeper into the wacky misshap scandals and sagas both on the track and far away from it that have made F1 a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no grip on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Worshack, murder at City Hall. Could this have happened at City Hall? Somebody tell me that! July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons and in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead. Hey everybody, in the chambers of dogs, a shocking public murder. A scream, get down, get down,

those are shots, those are shots, get down. A charismatic politician, you know, he just bent the rules all the time. I still have a weapon, and I could shoot you.

“And an outsider with the secret. He alleged he was effective flat down. That may have”

been not been political, that may have been about sex. Listen to Worshack, murder at City Hall, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Man, you have no f*cking clue. Talking about the mental illness stuff.

“It used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I”

have to be unhealthy physically or in pain in some emotional way in my life to create good music. If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm good." Someone says that I suck. I'm like, "F*ck, I suck!" Getting the talk about this is not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever. Listen to on purpose, Rijay Shetty, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back. We're the most back. And we are, um, Phil is just walked out of his house with a dead lot of Clarkson in, in the foyer of his house. In the foyer. I'm going to say, "Yeah, thank you." I'm going to say foyer. You know, I want to, I want to, I want to class it up a little bit. I don't get through it for a year just to really throw it away.

“For a year. Yeah. Yes, solid. People are going to love that pronunciation. There won't be a”

subreddit about that. No. All right. So, um, so they're mad. He, they tried to shoot him with the taser. Phil won't go down. Didn't work. Didn't take. And so the, the, the front cup has one of those big, like, 40 pound shields. And they just rush him with this shield. Keep again, your mind again.

That is, like, a third of Phil, Spectre's body weight easily. So they fuck him up. Yeah,

yeah, that does not surprise me. Yeah, but that shield weighed more needed. Inside the house, the cops find Lana Clarkson slumped over in a chair with, um, by the front entrance. There's a gun by her left foot and blood splatter all over her shirt and her skirt. There's an open drawer beside her and, um, an empty leather holster matching the gun that is at her feet. Right. On the floor are her front teeth, which have been knocked out of her mouth. Uh, muzzle of the gun. Uh,

at first look exactly the way you wouldn't shoot yourself. Yes, but at first look. It does appear up here as though Lana Clarkson has possibly killed herself. Sure. Certainly. Yeah, yeah, of course. But of course, Phil can't shut the fuck up. Right. Sure. Naturally, you know, so he started the little Spectre. He's he's, I mean, and one cop has the presence of mine to start of an audio recorder sets it aside. And he's like, would you believe it? Like, she just, her head just did that.

You know, like, you just, nothing. I didn't do anything. I can't believe this woman came into my house like this, right? He's like losing his mind. He's talking all sorts of shit. Um, but like cops are like, okay, well, we're, I mean, we're gonna at least take you to jail, collect some evidence, do the due diligence, even though believable enough of a story. But we'll, we'll get to why it falls apart pretty, it gets pretty flimsy. Sure. He's taken to jail.

He's talking like most of the time. And then suddenly, uh, he said, and he says stuff like, oh, she kissed the gun, you know, like he says like weird stuff like that. But his stories are just like intertwined. It's like he's, he's inventing the narrative as this is happening. As he's being questioned, as they're talking to him, he's inventing the narrative and just seeing what makes sense, you know, what people react to. It seems like he's a bit of like a choose-your-own adventure

game over here. And he's like, if the cops eyebrows go up, turn to page 97, you know, so, um, but eventually, he does start sobering up and realizes he should shut the fuck up, which he does.

And uh, the next day, he gets, he's bales himself out on a $1 million bond. Of course, he has that

money. So, yep, um, Michelle Blaine is assistant and fill the whole up in a hotel because the police are searching his house and conducting a thorough investigation. Immediately, the cop on the scene, the cop, the detective that's assigned to the case, he immediately realizes that this is going to be under intense scrutiny. So he, unlike many of the other court cases that are famous for this time, we're talking O.J. Simpson just happened, Robert Blake just happened, a lot of botched,

fucking police work in these cases, uh, intentionally or not who knows O.J. Sun probably killed him.

“Anyway, uh, so he recognizes, I better do things by the book, I better do things right, right?”

So he starts suspecting fill and he starts collecting serious evidence and, uh, the evidence collected points that, you know, it's probably nefarious at least, right? Uh, but there's some conflicting

pieces of evidence. First, Lana does have gunshot resin due on her hands, but fill does not.

Oh, okay. Oh, okay. So, fill somehow in this situation has not gotten gunshot residue on him. Yeah, which is possible, but yeah, that definitely is like an argument that his defense attorney is

if anybody's ever seen this type of injury or, or this is a bloody event, the, the way, you know,

“the, the, the head basically compresses everything and it spells back out the mouth, which is why”

also her, her teeth were knocked out, right? So she has a tremendous amount of blood on her, uh, on her chest and on her legs, but it stuns at a very specific point, right? Um, um, fills saliva is on her drink glass, as well as hers suggesting that they did kiss, and it's also on her breast. So there is some sexual contact that has occurred in some manner without a doubt. Um, right, fill does not have blood splatter on himself, at least not in the suggested amount

had he been in that situation. Um, right, uh, upstairs, the police find the white jacket that fill was wearing when he was last seen at the house of blues. And although it has blood on it, the specs are tiny. This is, it's not like indicative of what you would expect for someone who is just killed somebody that way, right? It's like that he is, he is conspicuously absent of any evidence that points to it. And you know, like with stuff like that, blood, you know, friends,

we've done our conversations on forensic evidence and everything being, yeah, kind of a, made up CSI bullshit thing, but there is a certain expectation for certain things like the amount of blood that should be on you and the gunshot residue that should be on you, had you been the one pulling the trigger. Um, right. So they find this, this white jacket, and then they also find the gun that's on the floor by her foot. It has no blood on it and no prints

and upstairs in a bathroom, they find a cloth diaper that has blood all over it. You know,

like the, like, true, like baby, like old school baby, they reference this a lot. I've never used a

cloth diaper to clean my guns, but apparently that's like the jam or was in the early 2000s. I don't know.

“Oh, okay. They talk about it as though I'm supposed to just know that that's what's going on.”

You could, like, I can see why it would work and it's probably cheap. Yeah. And as someone who loves guns, I'd never even thought about that. My have a baby. So I don't know. Yeah. I've never had a, but I've never had access to, I've never seen a fucking, uh, fab paper. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, anyway. So they mentioned it a lot. It's a big deal, but I don't, I don't really get why the diaper part of it was so significant. But, um, they, uh, they, but it is that it is covered in blood.

And he is clearly evidence points to the fact that he probably used this to clean off the gun, because obviously the gun should have fingerprints and blood on it and has neither. Um, what I consider the most damning evidence is that Lana was found in the chair at Phil's front door with her purse slung over her shoulder. It seems very indicative that she was trying to leave, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There are a big 22 room mansion. And she's by the front door

with her purse over her shoulder. It seems like she is trying to get out of this house. Uh, yeah. There's, uh, there's some, you know, like I said, some really conflicting stuff. Uh, there's, there's blood like everywhere except on Phil. And there is gunshot residue again, not on Phil. Um, everything in Phil's house is red. By the way, this is just a side note that I found really everything in his house when you look at the crime scene photos. They're all red.

Everything's red everywhere. I don't know. I think it must have been such a pain in the ass trying to find evidence inside the house that's just like red everywhere. It's crazy. Speaking blood. It's better in that house. Yeah. So, um, they also find vaik it in and alcohol in Lana's blood. The bullet went in her mouth and pierced a spinal cord and likely killed her almost instantly. They find a bruise on her tongue, uh, which is a very

unlikely thing if she had put the gun in her mouth herself. You know, it's like, yeah. That's not an injury you have if it hasn't been forcibly put in your mouth. Um, the cops build their case, and it's not until November of 2003 that they finally charged Phil formally with murder. So, good solid six months goes by before they, you know, but they're doing their job appropriately.

“You can't have as these charges. You have to make sure that coming into this, you are absolutely”

ready for it. Right? Um, so something I never see in any of the documentaries about this is it's

not until March 2007 that they begin the trial for Phil. The entire time he's walking around a freeman. So she's killed in in February of 2003. He does not go on trial until March of 2007. Right. He has years of just walking around free knowing what he's done and everything that's going on, you know. So he just, you know, he's just chilling. During this time, he does his best

his lawyers are basically like, though, you need to stay the fuck off of the goddamn like TV.

“And he's like, you guys don't know what I'm doing. I'm making a case. I'm going to get there, right?”

He, um, he begins claiming that she killed herself and that he was the victim in the situation. It's like, he literally is like, this happened to me. This happened to me. Can you believe it? Like, she killed herself and this happened to me. And I'm the person victim. I had to deal with it. Yeah. Yes. Uh, he was angered by his lawyers in 2006 because they couldn't get his case thrown out. So he begins this like series of home videos that he posts on the, what is still very much

the new internet, right? This is like the early 2000s. He's making his own website and posting

these videos on and his, his, his assistant Michelle blame. She, she helps him make these videos, right?

Um, and it's, they're the most unhinged videos here. So if you could you show the, um, I forget what it's called the interview. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one. So if you could just show that for us. Unfortunately, I can. I have anything to do with her death. She may have accidentally taken her own life. She may have been eating the gun with a dancing. She may have been doing it. I don't know why went out or where.

And what circumstance she may have taken her own life, whether she planned to or not. Motherfucker, are you free styling motherfucker? Yes. Oh, it's just pounding Tom's.

Yeah. I always think I think about, did you see this recent thing with the, the billionaire

did I forget the name of it? The billionaire do where his lures like if you don't shut the fuck up right now, I'm gonna kill you. Yes. Yes. That's a good defensive attorney. Yes.

“That guy is a professional. That's why he makes it big enough for the five word answer. I'm going to”

fucking kill you. This motherfucker is out here wearing pukashells and Hawaiian shirts being like, "I don't know why she did it." She's gay. The guy that got in her mouth and was dancing. I don't know. Michelle, his assistant, she says this is where she really starts to like the facade of Phil breaks down for her and she she starts being like, "I don't know if I'm like cut out for being around this shit." And she tries to quit and Phil, she brings her son with her to quit

because she's afraid of Phil or Sun's like giant. Phil's saying he's gonna kill her. Phil's like screaming at the top of her lungs while she's walking out. She says that Phil's sexually harassed her, claimed that she claims that Phil told her, "Hey, we should get married so that you don't have to testify." You know? Because if you were married, you can't testify, you know? And she's like, "I don't know anything, motherfucker." Like, she's like, "What are we starting this?"

This is so stupid. She should have this motherfucker. Please tell me. She suits the show. She does suit him. She has to suit him. Because he promises her money. He promises are also worth to stuff. And he does not come through on his promises. So it does end up like all this like film stuff. She gets her names all over. And shit, it looks really bad for her. It probably does fuck up her career for a little while. But Hollywood, baby, it's probably fine. So she does leave.

“She files a lawsuit against him, the claims what she owe. I think she does make a little bit”

of getting a little bit of a backbutt. I'm sure it most of got a lot of color, blood sucking, fucking lawyers. So the court case, right? The prosecutors, they go out and they're like, "Hey, anybody had a gun pressed to their head by a Phil Spectre?" And fortunately, fortunately, John Lennon is dead. So he got a gun pressed right against his head. So he got he's done for. I don't think he did. I think he got shot in the chest. But anyway, I'm sorry.

I just, I needed that. Um, so, but they do find, they find many, many people. Uh, one of them, I'm going to go through. There's like, there's like a football stadium full people who had guns pulled on them by Phil Spectre. It was not a challenge to find people that it was. It was, it was really not. Like, so, Joan Rivers testifies. Joan Rivers, the comedian Joan Rivers. And we all know and loved and everything. I think she's dead. If not,

she's dead and spirit to me. So in the, in the mid 1970s, she says she's at Spectre's home. And he, uh, she tries to leave. And he won't let her, he puns a gun at her head, tells her, don't fucking go anywhere. You're staying right here. Forces people at gunpoint is stay. This is the picture that they want to paint. This is what they're trying to say. Phil gets mad when people want to go home. He doesn't like it. Um, so, uh, so Joan Rivers,

testified that Spectre threatened her with a gun during an argument while she was visiting him. She, she wasn't allowed to leave until he could calm down. Pam Shaw or Pam Jackson depending on who reports it, she testified Spectre pulled a gun during an argument of blockter from leaving her residents, Kathleen Sullivan in the 1980s, testified that Spectre threatened her with a fire arm during a confrontation at his home. Uh, there is, they, like,

“I think that I think the end, Tally was like 12 people that they found that were open to like,”

yeah, Phil Spectre threatened me with the gun trying to leave his house. It's always that narrative,

especially since, you know, Lana is found with her purse on her shoulders. She's trying to leave the house. This is when Phil Spectre loses his mind is when you try and go home. Yeah. Yep. So, so Spectre during the trial is insane. He's, he's, he's crazy. It's, this is why, first off, um, this is why every time my pubes get a little unruly, I tell my girlfriend that I'm putting Phil Spectre on trial, because, uh, here, let me pull this, let me pull this photo of

this is amazing. This is, this is, this is broke Robert. This is Phil Spectre's hairdo is during the trial, right? Oh, my changes is here. Every fucking trial, right? This, and this one, this brings us to what I, this is like, what have my favorite moments? How we got it back? Right. Okay. One of my favorite moments in early Hollywood history, this is his book, photo by the way. Yeah, talk about these hairs down. Oh, yeah,

description. How do you? How do you? Before we do that real quick, I would just want to pivot

“and show you Phil Spectre's, one of my favorite moments in internet history, right?”

Is during this time, because there was a thread where they kept continuously photoshopping bigger and bigger hair on Phil Spectre. It's coming here. It's in here. Yeah, here it is. So the internet thought this was hilarious, and they just keep photoshopping bigger and bigger hair. And so he's got like the Death Star version of the, yeah, of the Afro on his head. Yeah, yeah. So he is, I mean, he is making a spectacle of this trial. Let's go to the hair real

quick, you talk about that. Yeah, exactly. So he's wearing different wigs all the time. First off, what's fascinating about this to me is that the first three look like mug shots, like, like he is just committed. And what of them? He has no wig and he's balding and he looks like he got off the Conair flight. That is his mug shot by the way. Yeah. I mean, that is his literal mug shot. Yeah. The other one does look like a mug shot, but he has a wig on, but he's looking

up at the camera with eyes so wide. It looks like he's just seen a hand grenade go off. So, so I want to point out, so I'm pretty sure that the second one is his actual night of the incident booking photo. And then the first one is his booking at the time of prison photo. That makes sense. So it does, they are probably mug shot. And he does look

fucking crazy in the spectacular. The third one he looks like Beetlejuice, which is amazing. Yeah. He looks

like Beetlejuice. The top right one. He looks like, uh, he just got done with his boy band audition. I'm just going to say he looks like Ben Stiller in traffic thunder as the full jack, like this. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well. Yeah. And then the bottom one, it looks like he's, it looks like someone gave the super ooze that made the teenage, mutant, Ninja Turtles to Joe Dirt's mullet.

“Like that's what he looks in the last photo. All right. That's what I've got. Yeah. This, it's amazing.”

Dude, he's showing, he's making a total spectacle out of this whole thing. They're all different. Yeah. He's, he's absolutely like, this is the joke. And, and he doesn't take any of its serious in any way, shape or form. He's constantly arguing with his prosecution or with his defenders. He's, he's like, he, his lawyers quit time after time after time. Uh, for the record, I want to put, this is another thing real quick. I'll go to is over here. There's also a picture

here. This is Al Pacino playing Phil Spector in a later movie, which by the way, is so stupid and

amazing. I highly recommend you watch it. Al Pacino as Phil Spector, you think you think, like,

oh, no, he's going over the top. But then you see the old videos of Phil Spector, like, he's underplaying Phil Spector. Yeah. Yeah. He's underplaying Phil Spector without a doubt. It is a really stupid, bad court documentary type style movie. But it is, it's really good. I totally recommend watching it as funny as hell. Al Pacino as Phil Spector is amazing. It's so good. Throughout the preceding Spector remained free on bail, continuing to live outside prison while trial unfolded.

His courtroom appearances became media spectacles fueled by increasingly bizarre wig choices,

man attempting to control public perception, even as his legal defense is falling apart. Sophie, this is for you, Sophie. Yes. Phil, for his part, he does acknowledge that the frozen little overwhelming, right? But he claims it wasn't out of respect, disrespect for the trial, but rather that he was paying respect to Ben Wallace and Albert Einstein, which, of course, is fucking insane, right? I fear I fear Ben Wallace and Albert Einstein might, my dream man.

Sophie, will you, will you play the video of Phil, describe it, just got in this? This is, yes,

this is amazing. It's incredible. Robert doesn't know who Ben Wallace is. You will shortly.

I had another question about the photograph that's all over the internet of you with the

“effort, and what I thought was, I think he has a sense of humor. So, what was with you with that,”

that, that was a tribute to Ben Wallace, the trepidson's voice, took me four and a half hours to get my hair that way. I will go for four, four, four o'clock in the morning, shower your late o'clock with Michelle to get my hair that's straight up in the air like that. She permed it, she did everything to it, and Ben Wallace is a forward who's the most valuable defensive player of the year. He used to be with us in front of us since the year they won two

years ago. He was here like that. And it was a tribute to Albert Einstein, and they COVID. It was done in jazz, but I was wearing my hair like Albert Einstein in those days. I was wearing my hair like Dylan. And nobody was making fun of Dylan. I spent a lot of time on it, in tribute to Ben Wallace, and in tribute to Albert Einstein. I spent a lot of time on my wildest dreams.

“But I hadn't learned my hair that way for about eight months to a year, and it never”

photographed in that pictures. That day, it got a little extreme. It got a little extreme, but photograph for some reason, in one way. Only in one photograph. I still thought that he even knows who Ben Wallace is. So he starts with Ben Wallace, the one this one guy who was at the time was significantly like famous and relevant. And it was like, but also it was about these other guys who are a lot less relevant right now than I'm just going to name it, making it increasingly

unlikely that I'm telling the truth. Yes, and also Mozart. Okay, brother. Is this like right after the piston's win in 2004? I would assume so. He does like he does like sports like he goes to like he's he's seen often at like games. I know I saw him at a later game when I was a kid. I saw that

figure. Yeah. He also I noticed it, but he hilariously like never admits to wearing a wig. Like in that

“thing. So I woke up and I was I had my worked on it for five hours and every day. I was like,”

so I watched his documentary. I figured which one it was, but they actually interview his wig guy. He's like, he's like, no man, I fucking make his wigs for him. I'm making wigs. He comes in. He's very particular about his wigs. He comes in all the time. But he like, he will never ever admit that he's wearing a wig. There's a reporter that interviews him and they say that while they were interviewing him, they're like, yes, so what about your wigs? What wigs? I don't

wear wigs. What are you talking about? I did this is my natural hair and he goes and he gets a fuckload of like photograph. Like I'll arm full of photographs and comes back and dumps them in his lap and he's like, see, see, these are all me with my hair. This is real hair. This is real hair. People keep this many photos to prove that their hair is real. This is a normal thing. This is a normal thing to do. I don't know what you're talking about. You know what, where wigs do their murder

trial? That's right. The Washington state highway patrol because they don't get charged with murder when they kill. Wow. Yeah, see, they were not for them. Wow. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a year's long court battle to prove the truth. You doctor this particular test twice in selling

correct? I doctor the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Some likes the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Break a Westby and I could manage any. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is

love trap. Laura Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

on fraud charges. This isn't over until Justice has served in Arizona.

Listen to the love trap podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

“Why hasn't a woman formally participated in a Formula One race weekend in over a decade?”

Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age? What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He's still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Wag Gettin change the paddock forever? That day is just seared into my memory. I'm culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman and these are just

a few of the questions I'm tackling on no grip, a Formula One culture podcast that dives into the

under explored pockets of the sport. In each episode a different guest and I will go deeper into the wacky mishab scandals and sagas both on the track and far away from it that have made F1 a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no grip on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Worshack, murder at city hall, to lie 2003, councilman James E Davis arrives at New York City Hall

with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons. Hand in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead. Everybody in the chamber is a dog, a shocking public murder. A scream, get down, get down, those are shots, those are shots, get down. A charismatic politician, you know, he just bent the rules all the time. I still have a weapon. And I could shoot you.

“And an outsider with a secret. He alleged he was effective flat now. That may have been not”

been political, that may have been about six. Listen to Worshack, murder at city hall on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shelley, host of the on-purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Khan. The singer songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit, sticks season. And one of the biggest voices in music today. Noah opens up about the pressure that

followed his rapid success. His struggles with mental health and body image and the fear of starting again after such a defining moment in his career. It's easy to look at somebody and be like, your life must be so sick. Man, you have no clue. Talk about the mental illness stuff. It used to be the thing that I was ashamed of. I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically or in pain in some emotional way in my life to create good music.

If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Someone says that I suck. I'm like, I suck. Getting the talk about this is not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever. Listen to on-purpose, with Jay Shelley on the iHAR radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we are back. So, the defense did their best to slander Lana. They poor tray her as a failed B movie actress who was down on her luck and depressed. They pushed the

theory that she was a star fucker, essentially, and that she only went with Phil in the hopes that you know, she could take advantage of a celebrity. And when that didn't work out in the middle of the night, she killed herself out of a fit of depression. They brought in her friend, who is this shitty woman. Her name is pumpkin pie for the record. That's her name. That's all she's ever referred to as pumpkin pie. Yes. And she is the least believable witness that you've ever seen. Like,

her testimony is fucking bonkers. It's like, everything's like, she texted me that morning.

And she was depressed. She's always depressed. She hated her life. She says that Lana always said she

was going to kill herself if she didn't get this role or, you know, like, like, things that

“some things that, like, I believe, right, like, but like in the way that we all have a sense of humor,”

like you're doing off fucking off myself if I don't get this role. You know, right, right, right. I should definitely get this one. Not an actionable way. Yes. Um, yeah. And they do everything to portray her as a washed up failure. Uh, they even played her sketch comedy real, which admittedly was not very good.

feels wife laughs during she snickers, you know, like, while they're playing it, they make it out to be a laughable situation. But this kind of backfires on them in the sense that it actually humanized her really hard. That during number nine, uh, from the, from the trial says the real had the opposite effect in humanized her. This isn't a quote. I'm just reading it. The real had the opposite effect in humanized her even more to the jury. But despite that, the jury could not come

to an agreement and they were deadlocked at 10 to and the judge declared a mis trial. So, Phil Spectre goes free. Marvel. Justices. Uh, so yeah. Thank you and the end. No, we get justice. We get justice. My friends. Okay. The woman I know about the Phil story. Yeah. So, uh, I, real quick, I just want to bring up Rochelle Spectre. I mentioned her a few times already. Rochelle Spectre was suspect just third wife. She met him initially in the 90s, uh, but they

“didn't get married in 2006. Probably because she was like underage. I think what she met him,”

uh, and also, yeah, gross Phil. But, you know, at least he does wait, you know, like we're from an era of gentleman Jimmy Page, David Bowie, George Harrison. Let's not be forgetting that our

idols were all horrible, horrible, sexual devious. Yeah. Um, yeah. But, but Phil always did seem

to wait till they were proper adults. So, good, good for him. No matter how good it was. I can say. But, they do get married in 2006 while Spectre's waiting on trial. And then, uh, she's decades younger than Phil. And unlike his previous partners entered his life when his music career was long over. And his reputation had already become what it was. His, you know, murdering reclusive eccentric. So, there's very serious, very serious questions about her motivations. Girl,

do I think? Yes. Her motivations absolutely seem to be because she knows Brooke about to go to jail

“and she only has to hold out for a few more years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She said a good situation”

here. Yes, smart. She's not at no. I take, take, sorry, pause. That was not a good situation. He's on trial for murder. She could, that is a dangerous game. It's not worth the check. What are you doing? What are you doing? Oh, oh, somebody has a moral compass and a, and a, and a, a version to danger. It wasn't to think that. I'm over here thinking, I did done that. You know, I had a Mary Phil Spectre at this point. It seems like, oh, it seems like a proper risk. Absolutely not.

And he looks like shit. Anyways. Yeah, mom. So, she's always like in the media talking to the,

the, the media and shit. Uh, she's behind him all the time. She speaks to reporters on his, on his behalf, insisting on his innocence. Um, she also gets repeatedly warned by the judge during these trials to, to shut the fuck up or they're going to throw her out because she'll be like, something will happen. There should be like, that's not true. You know, like, just, just be in disruptive and do everything. Ass woman. Yeah. Um, in 2009, Spectre was re-tried for the murder of

Lana Clarkson. And this time it lacked the spectacle of the first trial. After the first trial, the cameras aren't as interested. People don't really give a shit anymore. Yeah. It's like that. It was a big deal then, but it's not a big deal now, no one cares. Uh, his team went from several high profile lawyers down to just one, uh, but the prosecution stuck with their premise. Phil Spectre has a long history of gun violence and a fear of abandonment that ended in him using his gun as a

threat. And when Lana Clarkson rebuked him and tried to leave, he became enraged and killed her. This time, the jury did come back in agreement. Phil Spectre had killed Lana Clarkson. Phil was convicted of second degree murder, and he was sentenced to 19 years to life in prison. Good. Um, cool justice. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it happens. Now, briefly, I do want to talk about what I actually think is the most likely scenario. I've spent a lot of time digging

into this. And like, um, I've developed my own theory, which is a bit, um, I mean, maybe, maybe it

makes some people mad, but, um, we always want to put the victim in a positive light, but I don't think

she would have gone from Alhambra to Hollywood if she wasn't desperate and looking to take advantage of this situation, right? I don't think that, um, like, you know, so 40 is old in Hollywood years

“absolutely. And, uh, and I think the momentum loss and everything made her desperate to really”

make something happen, right, which we know, like, you know, desperate is the situation where where people will fly or fall. And in this situation, she just became the victim of a shitty situation,

she had any intention of sleeping with him. I think when Phil tried to get sexual with her,

she was like, no, this is my limit. I am not interested in this and I'm just waving it gun around. You seem like you have a similar, a lot of reasons not don't want to get with those factors. But I do not want to negate, like, the, the conversation that should be had is like, he was ridiculously drunk. He is absolutely like, like, blind drunk at this point, right? And he's

“probably sexually assaulting her that is very definitely a likely situation. But I think she got”

frustrated and was like, all right, I'm out of here. You promised me one drink. I've had my one drink. It's time to go. I think she put on her purse. And I think Phil, like, he has done many,

many times before pulled out his gun, sat on her lap and forced it into her mouth and said,

like, I'm going to kill you if he's fucking leave. And I truly believe, honestly, that it was an accidental, that he killed her accidentally, but yeah, I think it was, yes, negligently, is what I would consider absolutely, because if you look at all the accounts, every single account that I read about Phil Spectre waving a gun around and threatening people to a T, they all said, I didn't really think Phil was going to kill me. I think he was just drunk and, and being dumb,

right? I think he had, I think he had done it so many times in his life. And I think that he had been

“and I think that this one time, he was too drunk and he pulled that trigger and he's negligently”

killed her. And because the earliest things he say was an accident, I didn't mean to, there wasn't

those ones supposed to happen. You know, like, those are the first things that he says, and I truly

believe that that is probably what happened. I think that he was just a bad gun owner who murdered somebody, who it's still murder. It doesn't kill him. Yeah, it doesn't kill him. It doesn't change the punishment that he just said, right? It's just a hundred percent. I can buy that chair. I just, I personally believe, you know, and also, it doesn't change also, you know, like Phil Spectre's a horrible person. His legacy leading up to this is one of being an absolute piece of dog shit.

Like he's a society, yeah. Yeah, he's a manious. You wrote something in your script that you did not read that I think is relevant to, which is that you wrote that earlier in the day that

“she had bought multiple pairs of shoes, which I think is very important. She absolutely was not”

killing herself. Yeah. Like, despite the, you know, like, you don't buy a bunch of shoes and then be like, "Ah, tonight's the night." You know, it's like, "No, that's not really." You don't make future plans if you're gonna off yourself. And she had future plans. She talked about her future plans. It does not, in any way, point towards her being suicidal. I think that is much more suggestive of fill either killing her, as you said, fucking up, doing the thing he does all the time.

Yeah. I think he's so likely to kill someone. I think the explanation for the lack of gun residue on his hands was probably that her hands were surrounding his hands. Well, he had a gun held to her face or possibly all the way in her mouth. Yeah. Maybe he's fighting him because it's terrifying and the gun pulls the trigger, right? Yeah. I think that that is the most valid explanation. He also absolutely cleaned up afterwards. There's no prints on the gun. There's no blood on the gun.

He absolutely cleaned the gun afterwards in order to try and obfuscate some of this situation. And then, and then, but years and years trying to ruin this woman's reputation. Yes. Uh, he goes to jail in 2009. He spends six fucking years free after he kills this woman, six years. America. Yeah. He's in this, the country. I lost my leg for sort of half lost my, I lost the part of my leg in my leg. I lost the feeling of my leg, that counts. Um, yeah. So, uh, this, it sucks.

He spends the remainder of his life incarcerated. He spends decades, you know, prior to this emotion, constructing these walls. And then he gets imprisoned by the walls that, you know, we construct this society. That's my, ooh, look at that moment, right? We all feel smarter now. Uh, in December of 2020, Phil contracted COVID while in prison, and in January of 2021, he died of complications from COVID. That didn't mean to laugh. Yeah. Yeah. He causes daughter and

like, and to tell her because she, he loses contact, but he calls her to tell her, I didn't die on my birthday. Look at me, you know. Yeah. That's his, that's his big, you know, they, his daughter, again, to the end of his life, she, and still today, Nicole, she, she proclaims his innocence, and she stands by and says, "I want her from Father." She loves him. What's his, what's his, what's his other kids? Fucking hate him. Show up during the

trailer, like, but this dude, he did shitty things, but his daughter, I just wonder what

time to be this time. I will pull up. We do have a picture of Phil's back to the last picture

before he dies. It looks like this somewhere here. It is bam. There he is. Oh, oh, and all of his glory. He does look like an extra from the Santa Claus. No wig, crooked teeth, hearing aids in because he's probably going deaf at this point. It is a start contrast of everything about him. He dies, you know, pretty much deaf, no hair. It's all the things that he fought his entire life.

“And here he is. At the end of his life, go fuck yourself, Phil. That's how you go out.”

Now, because, because that is a bit, it's a bit of a happy ending. I'm not going to pretend it's not a happy end, right? But, because I like to leave us on even happier rendering, because we go through a lot. Don't we hear at best, dude? What? We, we go through a lot, right? It's just it's, you know, I, I, I listen to the Himmler episodes. I, it was hard, man. Or the, uh, Verente Barrier episodes. These are indeed. Yeah, you know, Barrier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that guy.

This should sad, you know. Uh, so I want to leave you with a happy ending. Oh, a happy ending. After escaping Phil Spectre in 1972, Ronnie Spectre, or as she would later go buy her a maiden name, Ronnie Bennett again, entered what she later described not as a triumphant comeback, but a long grinding fight to reclaim her life identity and voice. The divorce left her financially constrained and legally silenced, while Phil

retaining control over much of her catalog and publishing. Uh, for years Ronnie struggled with alcoholism and instability, problems she openly acknowledged and as scars from her captivity.

“You like, this is what she went through and this is why she is like that, right?”

But she never fully disappeared. Throughout the 70s and 80s, she continued recording

and performing sporadically, collaborating with artists like Eddie money, Joey Ramone, and slowly rebuilding her sense of self outside Phil's shadow. Survival, not stardom, was the priority. Hold on a second. Fuck, I forgot to mention the Ramones. He pulled a gun on the Ramones and didn't let him leave the studio. I don't know how I missed that one. That's a big. So the Ramones are recording,

uh, rock and roll high school and Phil is brought in to record them and he pulls a gun on the whole band. It says, you're not leaving until you get the song right, right? Uh, she's great. So I remember the band later denied it, but Joey Ramone said it happened so it's like they but yes. So Joey Ramone definitely, they probably in the studio were like, "Hey, so Phil, crazy, right? Fuck." That guy, that guy is a nut, right? Yeah, I'm sure they

had some some memories that they shared. Um, in the 1990s and 2000s, Ronnie experienced a long overdue reprisal. As rock history began to properly credit girl groups and female vocalists her influence

became undeniable. B. My baby was canonized as one of the most important pop recordings ever made

and Ronnie herself was recognized not just as Phil Spector's muse, but as a single irreplaceable voice. She reunited with the Ronettes for selected performances and released new music on her own terms and became a beloved figure among younger musicians who saw her both as a pioneer and a survivor. Oh yeah. Her 1990 memoir, B. My Baby, was especially important, breaking decades of silence and reframing her story as one of endurance rather than victimhood. I will tell you this book,

she wrote is tremendous. She deserves every ounce of credit for being a survivor that she is because she looks at all this stuff the same way I look at like surviving the Iraq war, you know,

“where it's like like this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me, but I'm going to make jokes”

out of it instead of like letting it destroy me. She absolutely has such a strength and such a sense of humor about all the things that happened to her. Even the coffin, she's like, I guess he thought that was going to scare me, but it goes by four. It wasn't like he was going to physically put me in there. When Phil Spector was convicted and imprisoned, Ronnie did not gloat, she simply said justice has been done. When she died in 2022, she was remembered not

as someone who survived a monster, but as an artist whose voice changed probably, and she did get to outlive Phil Spector. She got to see him die and lived a happy year and a half, two years down there with without him in in the world. So that's beautiful. Good on her. Thankfully, she found happiness and success despite going through this whole thing and she got to see him die. And that, my friend, Robert, is your two-week vacation. Thank you. All summed up, the story of Phil Spector. He is without

of all of all of this? The sheer number of very famous people he pulled guns on. Just think about

“how much cloud you have to have to pull a gun on like the remote. John, Lenin, the remote, Lenin,”

and everyone who doesn't don't say anything about it. Like, Lenin, hey, man, I know you wrote "Hallelujah," but you got to keep your fucking mouth shut. Yeah, like, say "Hallelujah," he didn't pull the trigger. What do you think? What do you think? What's the craziest thing of this all three? I don't know that Mickey Mouse video. That part was next, yeah? He just offered that willingly. He didn't know what he prodded him.

And what do you think was the first Charlie Temple in Mickey Mouse? It's so funny, man. There's

so many parts about this guy. And here's why it's so interesting to me, right? It's because as a musician, as a producer, as a person who's worked in the music industry, I've met this guy a hundred times. Yeah. Yeah, I've met this guy so many times. I have absolutely seen people who I guarantee in 30 years or whatever. I'm going to be sitting at home. Yeah, there's going to come on. I'm going to be like, yeah, I saw that coming. Yeah, I saw that coming. That was absolutely going to happen.

I predicted this for sure. Can't wait for the Telaw Court interview. Yeah. So yeah, so I mean, that's the thing that I really enjoy about this story is the, you know, it is, it is generally

just a story of a shitty, shitty, shitty person. There's a lot of those in Hollywood. But I like to

separate, like this is one of, like, for example, right, when Michael Jackson, when, when a lot of the, the, the, the most recent things have come out, I kind of made a choice like a feel like, man, I, I don't need to listen to your music anymore. Like, it, I, all the classics are there, but I just don't, I don't, I'm not going to get mad if anybody else does. But I definitely, I'm, I'm drawn a line between that was, that was, that was wrong, and I don't like it. Lost profits. I don't listen to

“Lost profits anymore. But Phil Spector had such an undeniable hold on so many important artists,”

and so many songs that it's just like, to erase that would be a racing a core part of my being existed before Phil Spector killed Lana Clarkson into this. Yeah. In three, you know, like, all of those songs existed in my life before them, and, and, and it really, it's like, it's, it's difficult. It's, it's a difficult thing. And, and also, you know, I like to take some tiny bit of solace in the fact that, like, I, I can tell other people how horrible it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

He was the shitiest person. He made some bangers. He did some amazing things that are, like,

just not, have not been replicated in the music industry. And undeniably, a huge sonic inspiration for me. Like, I literally consider myself to be the stereo Phil Spector. Like, this dude, he was, he was divorced three times. Now that Phil, you know, I know, but musically, musically,

“really. He, he, he does, he does so much. I truly believe in what he, like, the way that he crafted”

the music that he did. It's, it's how I like to use the studio as part of the process of making music to have these creative moments. And I'm largely inspired by him and the Beatles in doing that. And so it is hard to remove that. So my, my justification is that I'm just out here telling you guys how shitty it was. So it, it alleviates my conscience. Well, there's worse ways to alleviate your conscience. Yeah. Phil Spector found a few of them. Man, so thank you so much for letting

me do this. This was so much fun. If you're interested in the music from the episodes, I'm going to give that to Sophie. So she can post it. I'm also going to, I'm going to give even like the stems and the session. So if you're a musician and you want to remix some of this stuff to make your own little home bastards weird. You can grab those from Sophie. I'll put them on my stuff too. Also, I'm fighting the music industry from the inside. I actually, I did all the

label thing. Obviously, I have a Grammy and I've done the whole label thing. But I decided to to be the change I want to see in the music industry. And so I am starting my own label. I am working very hard at pushing my own identity in this that is different from the exploitive AI driven ownership of publishing bullshit that the industry has become. And I really am trying. So if you care about that at all guilt trip for all of you listeners, that's right. Come and check out

my new artist's name is Violet Lux. I'm going to release the song concurrent with this with these

it's entirely Phil Spectre inspired type stuff. I'm wall of sounding with the music. But if you

“like 90s Grundrock, if you like Allison chains, if you like Massey Star, if you like Nirvana,”

if you like smashing pumpkins, this is going to be right up your alley. So come check it out. The vinyl will be coming out to us to check that out as well. And yeah, I got a podcast and other shit. So I thank you for letting me do this man. This has been so much fun. I love telling my friend, this is like what we do when we're just hanging out. It's like explaining shit in people to each other. Phil Spectre. Yeah, particularly. So it's fun to get to do this on the stage that

you have become. And I'm so proud of you. Man, it's awesome to see you doing so well with all this.

And I'm proud of you. And you're nerds on the subreddit. We talked shit on stuff. Yeah, swear to God,

“oh, how'd you down like that Jay and Silent Bob movie and beat this shit out of you. That's right. That's what we do.”

This is bit of podcast. That's how I end my podcast. Bye. It is over. Behind the bastards is a production of cool zone media. For more from cool zone media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com. Our check us out on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes behind the bastards are now streaming on Netflix dropping every Tuesday and Thursday.

Hit remind me of Netflix. You don't miss an episode. For clips and our older episode catalog continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, youtube.com/at behind the bastards. We love

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