Part One: The Orgasm Cult

>> Find the bastards.

>> That's the podcast, you're listening to right now.

Worst people in all a history, we tell you all about them. And you know, this has been a rough year for a lot of us here behind the bastards. We talked about a lot of pedophiles. And I'm tired of talking about pedophiles. There are pedophiles in this episode, but they're not the primary focus of the episode.

Jamie Loftis, how are you doing today, I'm sorry for saying pedophiles were so close to pedophiles. >> And that's in one parking room. >> And today, we're talking to the biggest one of them all. >> [LAUGH] >> We ended the way well. >> I just was like, I wanted to go right into the title, but then I hadn't introduced you.

And I was like, I shouldn't introduce Jamie before the title, but I also part of it was like,

“should I introduce the title and then bring in Jamie?”

I don't know, I did it the wrong way, I'm sure about that.

>> No one complained at the start here, Robert, why are you not wearing a hat? >> I don't like hats. >> Yeah. >> It's true, where's your statement hat? >> I don't have a statement hat, but Jamie, you are wearing a Therano's hat right now. >> I am a well-worn one.

>> A well-worn one, yeah Therano's hat has been around the block. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Our hair looks like a fucking Liz Holmes sweat through that thing. Well, she was waiting to hear, she just died it. >> Yeah, I actually contributed to her bail fund and she mailed this to me.

>> I'm wearing a hat that's very appropriate for today's episode. It says disappointment awaits. >> Yeah, yeah, you're both going to get what you want today, because you are Jamie talking

“about a Silicon Valley coat led by a female grifter and best of all, it's an orgasm coat.”

It's an orgasm coat everybody. >> Let's end a crowd person to applause. >> Like you muscled through six weeks to get a file to get to the orgasm coat. We did it, folks. >> Yeah, yeah, oh, thank God.

It's like washing your face in a stream. Only actually this is very abusive and a lot of people get hurt. >> Well, it is behind the scenes, but this disappointment awaits. >> But we get to laugh at like Silicon Valley's starter fucking shit getting mixed in with like traditional Colt Abuse techniques, it's very fun.

>> And we love to see women in a leadership role in exactly. >> One who is really, really hurting and taking advantage of a lot of men in a way that doesn't even the scales on this show somewhat, like if you're just so interesting. >> It starts the process, she goes through a lot of guys. >> After Spector and Savel, thank you.

>> Yeah, I mean, Savel and Bused a lot of boys too, Sophie. >> That's fair, but I want to hear about a woman. >> Let's hear it. >> Yes, so we're going to talk. >> Yeah, I'm going to guess you, there's a good chance you haven't heard her name.

She's Nicole Ddon, like D-A-E-D-O-N-E. >> How many times is the word "clitoris" in the script? I see it in the script, I see it in the script, can we get a control of on this? >> Yeah, I just got really excited.

“>> I avoided it, but I used a couple of synonyms, so here's the thing.”

>> Well, times, how many times is vagina in the script? Only six, the code is based around this lady comes up with a, it has an idea that, like, if you get a bunch of women in a room, and you have a partner, master-bait them in a room, sometimes with hundreds of people watching, it creates this sort of like magical energy effect that has a bunch of health benefits.

>> It's like an operating theater approach to coming? >> Yeah, that's exactly what they do. That's exactly the art of the griff to Jamie. >> Okay, okay, it's gonna be really fun, so what's also really fun about this is that this practice, getting all these people in a room, I mean, sometimes it was one person at a time,

but masturbating people in public totally detached from sex, right? >> Number one, it is only vagina in clitoris, it's being manipulated, right? That's the, this is not like a multi-organ kind of deal, and number two, this is not supposed to be erotic, by the end of it, by the Silicon Valley stage of the grift, we're treating this like you're taking a bulletproof coffee, and by the way, the bulletproof

coffee guys endorsed this business, so, so many beautiful crossovers. >> God, yeah, anytime you have a Silicon Valley grift, you have some incredible sideplay.

>> Right, there's always a fucking great series of cameras.

>> There is shows up, it's awesome. Yeah, we get Tim Perus, we don't get a Navy seal, I was bummed about that Jamie, I was hoping one of those Navy seals who sells like energy bars would be in this picture, but no,

>> Okay, so it's sex, but it's not sex, so it's more than sex. >> Yeah, it's way worse than sex, and it's not supposed to be sexy, by the end. This does start with a bunch of dudes in like the 70s who it very much is about sex for, but before we get to the dudes in the 70s, we're going to have to have a little talk,

because it's very relevant about the patterns that this group that's supposed to be kind of like breaking the mold and making this like women's centric and not abusive fall into. We're going to have to talk about the history of the female orgasm and popular awareness and medical conception, right? >> Okay, there was a part of me that thought you were going to say,

“we have to talk about the clitoris, where is it, how do we find it?”

>> What is it just, it's all beyond the same page. >> Got like a laser pointer, so it's like, right thing, just mining. >> You got nobody's cute. >> So let's talk about it, ladies. >> Yeah, I think my sex head was so bad growing up in Texas.

I'm fairly certain I learned about the clitoris from the South Park movie.

Like I think that was my first encounter with it when I was like nine or 10, something like that.

>> My sex head, I took it over summer school and they just showed us multiple horrific birthing scenes. >> Oh, great, yeah, we did see it one of those, just one of those, not one, not two, maybe four. Well, at least I put in the hours, I didn't, I saw one birth video but no, I didn't even get like period information and it was like a running joke in my town,

how the fact that they did not invest in sex head, but I went to this massive high school where there was a daycare at the high school. >> You just have to think one perhaps, but I don't think they even told us orgasms at all existed. They told us that like, you know, how the active intercourse happens physically and that it feels good.

“And I don't even think I think they were supposed to tell us about like Simon,”

but I think the gym coach that was giving the lesson was way too awkward. So he just kind of breezed right past it. We didn't hear anything about that. >> It's a part of a great American tradition to be full of visceral fear and think you're dying the

first time you come. Yeah, it's important. Yeah, it's really crucial stuff.

>> This isn't "I Heart Podcast." Guaranteed human. >> Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite on humor me with Robert's Michael and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden Creek to David Letterman help make you funny this week, my guests. SNL's Mikey Day and Headwriters Streeter Side L helped an

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>> So, for as long as there have been people, we've understood that sex at least could potentially be very enjoyable for both participants, right? Like, that people have been aware that it can be fun, even if they've hated the idea of that. But there's also been this understanding that people with penises and people with the vagina's experience, these pleasures, somewhat differently.

At first, so far as I can tell, I don't think there was a lot of controversy about this idea.

men enjoyed sex more than women. And Zeus, who is a prolific rapist, argued that women seem to take more pleasure in the act, and Herit was like, "Yeah, I'm not surprised." You said that, but then she was like, "Obviously, guys enjoy it more.

“That's why you're doing all the shit you're doing, Zeus."”

The wise-saged Heritius was brought in to give like an answer to kind of adjudicate this, and he was like, "Women feel nine or ten times as much pleasure as men." So he agreed with Zeus, and Herit did some really mean things to him. She did not like that. That would be honest.

Did no Zeus slander was on the calendar for today.

Oh, Zeus slander's always on the calendar.

I love it. Because slander is absolutely always on the calendar. And we do talk about him like he is a guy that was, "Yeah, I'm just a dude." Yeah, like we met him at a cinema. My only compliment is Zeus is that story about when Zeus

births somebody from his forehead. He did a thing. And that's how I think I got Anderson. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. I like the one where he turns into like a swan.

They have sex with a swan because he just sees a swan that's so hot. But he's like, "I can't do this as a guy." Like, "I got to be a swan." First of all, swans, not nice. Second of all.

No. Beautiful. Sure, that's what Zeus said. Well, it's because the United States is a culture that was heavily influenced by Puritanism and generations in which women were shamed and ostracized for even sexual

contact that they had no choice and it's easy to see that like, "Oh, the Greeks were like way more sex-positive than like their Western descendants were thousands of years later." Right? That seems like at least a more sex-positive view, even though it's still kind of messed up.

And there are some ways in which that's true, but a system professor of classics and editor

“for the journal Idle-On, Terra-Molder, makes an important point about what this myth was”

really saying. And this is relevant to everything that winds up happening in the Silicon Valley days of this fucking sex cult. If the ancient Greeks were supposed to take a message or learn a lesson from this myth, it was that women were the lucky ones when it came to sex.

Women could be assumed to always want sex and when they got it to enjoy it substantially

more than men, giving rise to the need for men to control sexual interactions and the sexuality of women. But companion to the ancient Greek and Roman idea that women enjoy sex more than men is the ancient idea that women are sexually ravenous and insatiable. Their sexual appetites couldn't be trusted and had to be reigned in by male guardians.

So that's going to actually be relevant to every modern day, orgasm cult. All of what you're going wrapped in, like, this is all about the women. And all of what you're going to wind up recreating that like ancient Greek and Roman shit. Like, it's crazy how it's nothing changes. Okay, okay.

So we already have, this is maybe a record for you, Robert. I'm like, we can't talk about this before we talk about ancient Greek mythology. Yeah, we got it. I fully believe it, I fully believe it. So is this, I'm guessing this is like, oh, this is actually about like women and women's

pleasure, and women are obsessed with being controlled and need to be controlled. And that's actually hot and liberating.

“It's, it's a little more complicated and honestly dumb than that, Jamie.”

Um, but I don't want to spoil how dumb it is. Um, the sex cult is going to be better. This is, this is instructive.

This is critical to understand before you start a sex cult.

And there's a couple more things that we need to understand before we get into this. Because there's a lot of patterns. The Greek set up that we just never get free of here in the West, at least. Um, so the sage of it advised his readers that women had an astute tendency to say no when they meant, yes, like he's kind of the first guy in the Western canon to be like,

a nose, not a no bra, like that's, that's over, right? Like he's that kind of a guy. Um, and this is endemic all over ancient culture just as it is like today. Uh, Hippocrates, the father of Western medicine, weighed in on the pleasure debate and essentially agreed with Tyreusius and through his descendants medieval Europe inherited the belief that female

pleasure, aided in conception. The term orgasm didn't exist, but they knew what one was and they thought it made pregnancy more likely that like if she enjoys it, you're likely to conceive a child. That was like the widespread understanding in a medieval Europe, which breaks a pretty important misconception about a medieval life, right?

That like they were frightened and ignorant of sex. Because they weren't nearly as ignorant as a lot of people who would come later. For one thing, everyone lives in the same room. So you're like, no, where kids come from, right? Like, there's no misunderstanding.

You see them being created. Yeah, you're, you're aware of how things work. There's no like telling a, there's no getting kids to like think that sex is not normal. Like, if you're growing up in that environment, um, several Catholic scholars. In fact, discussed prostitution positively.

There's, there was an idea around like Catholic um, theology in this time that like, you kind of need prostitutes for society to work that if they don't exist, things go crazy. Like, that was like a fairly widespread idea among some circles. And there were even monks and nuns who published work that was explicitly about sex.

Dequitu on sexual intercourse.

“He was actually translating the work of a Muslim scholar.”

This is often the case with stuff like this. It'd been Al Jasser. Uh, but he filed that guy's name off of the paper for obvious reasons. He was just like, I'm just gonna cut this red off. Just put this out under my name? Yeah, look. Don't worry about it.

This is my book about sex. Don't, don't think about it. Uh, per a blog called Constantine's Africanus by Monica H. Green. It opens very clearly stating that sexual function was established by the creator himself to ensure the propagation of all species.

For if animals disliked intercourse, all the species of animals would certainly have perished. Pretty hard to argue with. Many of the same frank attitudes towards sexuality can be found in others of Constantine's works. In fact, we find in later manuscripts of the Constantine in Corpus,

“a short work on the potential harms and benefits of sexual intercourse.”

Called again, the Librum Minor Dequitu, the Little Book of Intercourse. That's, that's all kind of fun, right? That is fun. That's all it's just sting. Yeah. Okay, people are, so like, what pet goes way back?

Everyone's always been running there for a little thing.

Oh, yeah, forever. Especially the... Off it is like spouting the game. Oh yeah, yeah, the first pick-up artist. He's like, "No, no, they love it, they love it." Yeah, huge fans.

So, Jazzer wrote about sex, but he wrote about it purely from the male standpoint, and to the extent that Constantine was interested in gathering research about sexual stealing, research about sexual pleasure, it was only stuff from the male perspective. But they weren't the only intellectuals weighing it on the subject at the same time. You're going to love this lady.

To both of you are, she's awesome. One of my sources for these episodes is the history of women medium-page by Mary Devry, and she would have really get an article on a contemporary of Constantine's a 12th century Benedictine Nun named Hildegard of Bingen. I'm artists old, I'm like, there's a lot of sex in this piece.

Oh, I'm on my buzzword today. Is that it? Is that it? Is that it? Is the Nun fucking cool? We've got a horny Nun? She's a horny Nun, but more than that, she's every now and then you like read about someone in history, and they're from long enough to go that you don't get a ton of granular detail,

but you can just tell like, oh, you were smart as fuck. Like you were a genius, and that's Hildegard. So, she comes into life. She's born into a rich family, but that doesn't mean she has any choice or agency in her life. It actually means the opposite, right? Because during this time, her family's very religious, and at this period of time,

if you're super religious, it's normal to tie the 10th of what you have to the church, and that's not just money in this age. That means like, if you have 10 kids, you're given one of them to the priesthood or to be a monk or to be a nun, right?

“I didn't know that it's tended to flesh. That's why the very religious, right?”

I'm not going to say every family's doing that, but a number of them are. That's why there's so many people in the church, right? Yeah, you can get to 10. Yeah, we get to 10, we'll give one to God. And her parents were also may have been motivated. She started seeing visions at age 3. So, that may have been part of why they're like, "Well, she's probably be in the church. I don't know if I want to deal with this." So, I don't know what was going on there.

And I actually don't know, part of me wonders was she seeing visions or did she realize that if she had visions and talked about them, she could manipulate her circumstances to improve them.

And I kind of think that may have been what's going on, because the visions are always very conveniently

articulated to get her what she wants. My interpretation of her story is that the latter is more likely, but yeah, I'm an atheist in a scallowag. And I like to see like a clever, underdog find a way to win in a religion that's stacked against them. Like, I think that's fun. That feels like, so, you know, that's like the history of women in religion is like, "Oh, actually, God, we made up for me." So, it's like the only, it's like when I am trying to get

someone to listen to me and I just respond and, like, from a separate email and be like, "Hi, I'm Kevin, Jamie's representative." Kevin is such a great fake guy named. Yeah, Kevin's a perfect fake guy named. Kevin could be a guy. He's a great negotiator, Kevin. If you ever get an email from Kevin, look out. You're about to get an email ball. You're kind of getting fucking, yeah. So, anyway, so she gets put up in this, I mean, it's a

nunnery that's attached to a Benedictine monastery. I don't know if Benedictine nun is actually the proper term, but she's like a nun, and the nunnery is attached to a Benedictine monastery. And she's put under the care of an anchoress named Juddah. And an anchoress that whole thing means that like Juddah is supposed to be anchored to a place. She and her nuns are not ever supposed to leave the monastery. Like, the world can come to them, but they're not supposed to go out, right? And, you know, as opposed to like,

there are, I guess, like, the some nuns are loose. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're able to move around be in the world. They can move to different nunaries or churches or churches or churches. You know, the church starts a new church. You got to be able to send some nuns over. It's got to be one that's

And it seems that makes sense. I know I've heard of anchor races before anchor nuns. You're loose.

“Yeah. Yeah. Your anchor nuns and your loose nuns. You're pocket nuns, so to speak.”

And for the time, Hildegard's a young adult, Judd has died. And it says a lot about how good Hildegard is at the social game that Hildegard gets made anchors when she dies. Like, Judd passes the title on to her. So she's in charge now. And she does not like this deal. She does not want to be stuck in one place. As Mary Devry writes, she wasn't happy being attached to a monastery and asked for permission for the nuns to move away and start their own place.

No, absolutely not said the abit. Hildegard wasn't having that, so she went over his head to the archbishop. Sure, whatever was his reply. But the abit was not thrilled with the end run or losing this community of women handily attached to his monastery or the challenge to his authority or some other reason we can only speculate about. He didn't let the women leave. You could say Hildegard wasn't going to take that lying down, except that's exactly what happened.

Hildegard was stricken ill by God, paralyzed and unable to get up. It was God's unhappiness about the nuns not being allowed to move. Hildegard told the abit. I love her. Awesome, she's so cool. You know, this guy you tell me exists and talks to us. He's talking to me right now. I can't move to work. If I'm not a loose nun, sorry. Right. Oh, that's genius. It's so cool. She's awesome. So the nuns, I get to leave. I'm holding the guard back. It's a banger.

Hildegard with. Yeah. I love it. He goes, sorry. She finds. When you're talking about cool nun, that just really just gets me going. She's really coming alive right now. She's only just begun. So she gets to leave with some of her other nuns and they get to found a new nunnery or whatever you call them, you know. And along the way, while they're doing this journey, Hildegard decides that God had made her sick and she's like around 40 when that happens

because he wanted to do something that she hadn't been doing. He'd been giving her visions all these

years, totally. She'd been having it, but she just kept him to yourself, herself. She never like

told him to anybody until now, but they'd always been there. And she writes this. Though I saw and heard these things, I refused to write for a long time through doubt in bad opinion in the diversity of human words, not with stubbornness, but in the exercise of humility until laid low by the scourge of God, I fell upon a bed of sickness. And I spoke and wrote these things, not by the invention of my heart or that of any other person, but as by the

secret mysteries of God, I heard and received them in the heavenly places. And again, I heard of voice from heaven saying to me, cry out, therefore, and write thus, basically God's saying you

“need to go out into the world and write books. And Hildegard's like, "That's what God wants me to”

do." And she reads, "God wants me to pivot." God wants me to pivot. Pivoting the books. I love this. It's the same religious narrative we hear, but it's like, only being used to liberate her she's physically. Yeah, it's truly cool. Yeah. It's cool in the sense of like, but the same thing happens, and like the FLDs were like a new guy's like, "Yeah, I'm a prophet now. The big guy told me I need 75 wives." It's not cool. It's not cool.

Unfortunately. This is that strategy being used in the right way. And the very coolest of ways. So Hildegard reaches out to the pope and she's like, "This

would God said, she sends what I just read, basically, to the pope." And the pope is like,

"Tell you, yeah, God wants you to write. Like, here's some fucking money. Why don't you pick out a team of like helpers?" And they'll like transcribe and write out and like publish, you know, all of all of your visions from God in books. And so she starts putting out books that are supposed to be inspired by God. I don't, I don't know. I didn't look that up. This isn't a story that man. And anytime there's like a pope that does like a slate, a slate cool thing. I'm like,

"No, did." I should have looked into the pope. You're right. Pope W is few and far between.

“Yeah, especially in this period, 12th century. Yes, what I'm saying?”

She publishes a bunch of books. One of them is called "Cosae at Curai." And it contains what is generally agreed to be. The oldest description of a woman having an orgasm written by a woman, right? And is this told by her or is this God telling her what an orgasm might feel like? She says it's God. Because she couldn't know obviously. God, she has an experience. What? God's like, you're nine, so this is so like, almost killing you in. You're missing out on something.

You do. It is fucked up. You think about it that way. I love it. It's like God is taunting her. Yeah, yeah, he's been a real dick here. So here's how hell the guy writes about the orgasm.

She definitely never experienced. One of woman is making love with a man, a sense of heat in her

brain, which brings with it's central delight. Communicates the taste of that delight during the act and summons forth the emission of the man's seed. And when the seed is fallen into its place,

woman's sexual organs contract. And all the parts that are ready to open up during the time of menstruation now close. And the same way a strong man can hold something enclosed in his fist.

“So, okay. Now, very Catholic. Yeah, very 12th century. Okay, I honestly.”

The first. I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed. I wanted something. I wanted something sexy or something sexy. She's a nun. She's simply a nun. Yes, she was alive now. She would love that song pussy palace. But she would have been huge about that one. Yeah. And that. Yeah, I mean, describing a big horny for a guy as a result of a brain fever is kind of potent. It's super funny. Yeah, kind of relatable. I've. Hilder guard lives a great life. The church center.

She gets to do all the things she'd always dreamed about. The church sensor on four long

speaking tours where she travels around like Europe and gets to talk about her work to learn audiences of learned admin. She super widely respected her books are fairly widely distributed. And in addition to that bit about the orgasm, she also wrote out descriptions of the four kinds of

“men. And this doesn't really directly talk impact our episode, but I couldn't read these and not”

include them because some of them are pretty spot on today. What would it be like? What of men be like? Yeah, what do men be like? So you get in a first. Her writing on this is somewhat influenced by the Greek belief that the body is governed by four humors, earth, wind, air, and fire, as well as something called bile, right, that like the mix of these, the ratio of them determines in like alter's behavior and mood in personality, right? They miss that nation and

last year, but yeah, they have the bio. So the first kind of the first kind of, the first kind

of men, Hilder guard said, are all fire. As soon as they get sight of a woman, here of one, or simply fancy one and thought, their blood is burning with a blaze. Their eyes are kept fixed on the object of their love, like arrows as soon as they catch sight of it. And these men are terrible people to be in relationships with, uh, because all they can do is fuck. Unless they're balanced by wind, which cools down their fiery genitals and lets them have honorable and fruitful relationships

with women. And the second type of man is a man who is a man of fire and of wind, and quote, "the eyes of such men can meet squarely with those of the women, much in contrast to those other men's eyes that were fixed on them like arrows." Which is really interesting, like thing to note,

“is like, "Can I just like see you as a person?" It's kind of what she's saying. Here I think. All right,”

this is like, just describing a man who could be a friend, right, possibly. It is also sounding like vaguely kind of astrological the way that she's categorizing them. Yeah. For sure, for sure. And yeah, she also includes an incite description of toxic men, who she describes as being full of bile. The bile men, it's really fun. They're incapable of having a genuine loving relationship with any being, through that they become bitter, evaricious, and full of foolishness, and abundant

passion, and intercourse with women, they know no moderation and act like donkeys. Definitely she never

had sex. Definitely she never had sex. The her ex was fumen when he read the word. It's that. It was, oh, I do appreciate it. That is, that is like a very subtle but important distinction of like a man who is just like wildly horny, and a man who is both horny and really into mind games that are like ruinous. Yeah. Yeah. That's like the bile man. The blood spread tire, fuck boy, and bring back your full of bile. Yeah. Yeah. Your full of bile. That's, that's,

we got to do that. Yeah. You know, it's not full of bile, though, Robert. That's right. That's right. So if I was just about to do it myself. Yeah. But I did it first. You did it first. You did it first. And the sponsors of our podcast have no bile at all. On it, bile lists. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite on humor me with Robert's Michael and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden Creek to David Letterman help make you funnier this week

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median businessman had a pulse Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. For our ies and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey, our Michal McFey, and this is one of the most shocking

criminal conspiracy's eye that ever come across. When Jacob met Levant, this went to a billion dollar

fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

“The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know is somebody”

coming after me. Jacob told Levant, you're ruining my life. Listen to kingdom of fraud, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. They might have had some violence, I don't know. Who knows what you people listen to? Oh, the fuck knows who our sponsors are, not me. Yeah. And so here's my favorite thing. And this is something married of rye points out in her article. And this is that Hildegard might be the first

writer to describe themselves in the 12th century. It's fucking amazing. Is this the fourth kind of guy?

This is she kind of branches out from that to discuss the different ways different kinds of men respond to cello. So she lays out the kinds of men. And she talks about here's how they respond to like not having sex. And one of these types of men is obviously a gay guy, but she does not understand

“that. So she's just like some men are fine with it. And it's like, well, yeah, you're missing a piece of”

the story Hildegard. That's fine. But she writes here about men who stay celibate not had a religious obligation, but because they hate women. Quote, they neither receive any love from their fellow men nor have any inclination to a social life of their own. All the more since they exhaust themselves with continuous figments of their imagination. Then when they meet people, they are already full of hate, malevelance, and the wrong attitudes that they can't enjoy company anymore.

It's amazing how spot on that shit is. She's talking about clover, that's the 12th

century. She knows that shit ain't under your skin. Man, we always think that like this

jet like whatever generation has really reached the final stage of misogyny and like being socially horrible, but no. Hildegard described the manor sphere all the way about that. You could have told me that was in the cut last week. Right. That's nice. Yeah. That's fucking crazy. Now, this is where we got to leave our friend Hildegard. Oh, it was awesome. I never did anything wrong, but we are not the show our friend Margaret Killjoy does. So we're not going

to talk about Hildegard anymore. Margaret, drop the Hildegard episode. Yeah. Margaret, I love you. Just as this episode's going to be kind of downhill after Hildegard, the way women's sexuality was discussed in like, like medical literature in the Western world went kind of downhill after Hildegard, unfortunately. There's one bright spot in the word 1660, the word orgasm gets coined for the first time. There's a doctor named Nathaniel Hymore, who used the term to describe what happens

during a pelvic massage. Even that early medical professionals were experimented with the idea that orgasms could treat certain women's diseases. And, you know, this is just like any anything to do with like the vagina is women's in this era. Like that's just the way like all of the writing is in this period of time. Right. So it's like a fucking red bull commercial. It's like they're just saying, and Dürfen's give you wings. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's basically the idea.

Right. Through the 1800s in Western Europe and elsewhere, including the United States, it became

they're not happy with like wearing restrictive clothing and hiding from society and like never

“seeing anybody until they're married, not being allowed to. After the married, not being able to read,”

go to school, both of these 11 children. These, these rods, what are they? Yeah. I, it is legit because like the this hysteria stuff is so well worn, but it's like even framing it as like a cure of like, like an orgasm for us. This woman has to be productive in some way. Yeah. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got to make some shit happen. Yeah. Cannot to this day. Cannot just be for fun. No. Absolutely not. No. So doctors in the Victorian

area did eventually hit upon the orgasm as a cure for hysteria. And some of the first electronic medical devices were invented to aid them. Uh, these are the first vibrators, right? And before

these first gadgets, doctors had to use their hands to do this job. In 1891, directs invented a

steam powered manipulator. That's like the earliest vibrator. It was so loud. You could not. The steam punk vibrator is a steam punk vibrator. Yeah. It's like a horny thing, executed in the least sexy with possible. Yeah. There's actually, there's a, there's a, there's a sex store in San Francisco. Good vibrations. That is a part of this story because this coat winds up and briefly involved there. That has a vibrator museum. You can see a lot of these own vibrators. You get there.

I was like, were the Victorian vibrators also in an, inextricably had 40 settings that you have to click every single one to do it off. Cool. Absolutely. So that's a, that's a feature. That goes back. Yeah. Cool. So the, the vibrator was the fifth common household appliance to become electrified. It beat the vacuum by about 100 years. So that's pretty cool.

“I think that priorities. That's priorities. In 1948, Alfred Kinsey conducted his first”

major sexual survey and people started talking about orgasms of all types in manners much more familiar to the modern sentiment. Men and women sexual desire gradually became a more approachable topic of discussion. The APA continued to diagnose hysteria and prescribe orgasms as a treatment until 1952, but things changed rapidly after this point. In the 1960s, masters in Johnson started conducting groundbreaking studies on why women orgasmed. As Sarah Mansell writes, they discovered that

women could have multiple orgasms from both vaginal or clitoral stimulation and also realized it took women about 10 or 20 minutes of sex play to reach orgasm compared to just four minutes for men. In the decade since, we've learned a lot more about the vagina and the clitoris, which is the only organ that exists solely for pleasure. But we've learned even more about the physiological benefits of orgasms. About 60% of people with migraines experience a reduction or

into symptoms after one. There's a bunch of other stuff about it. It has an impact on you, including just like, if you have a penis in terms of your urogenital health, doing it regularly reduces the odds of certain diseases. There's a bunch of that that we understand. So I just want to make sure I'm being clear. After the eight, nine years of this podcast existed, we're coming and saying clearly, coming is good. Coming is good. Coming is good. Coming is good.

Never been anti-coming podcast. Okay. Okay. This is just, usually you don't want to think about

coming when you're angry about Hitler podcast. Like, that's more why we don't talk about it on the show. Coming is medically good. Yes. Coming is medically good. Outside of the contexts that people usually come in behind the bastards. Concentral coming is good. Yeah. Yeah. So this actually gets to another really important point about orgasm and sexual desire that we've come to understand more fully in the modern age. In 2015, sex educator Emily Nagoski published an op-ed in the

New York Times during fallout over the failure of the FDA to approve Fibran screen. I think is the name, which is a drug that was supposed to increase female desire. That's like the description of what the drug does. I think it's basically a drug that increases like vaginal lubrication. I think it's kind of the idea. And Nagoski had an issue with this. She wrote that the biggest problem with the drug and with the FDA's consideration of it is that it's backers or attempting

to treat something that isn't a disease. Her argument was that modern research suggests there are multiple perfectly normal forms of sexual desire. Some people experience more spontaneous sexual

“desire, which is like somebody with a dick getting hard, right? Like, that's what generally”

society sees as male sexual desire. That's not the only thing that male sexual, that spontaneous sexual desire is. But it's the kind of thing you can treat with a pill sometimes, right? Like that or at least you can imitate it with a pill. A lot of people are way more into and feel way more responsive sexual desire. And you can't just drug someone into that because it's responsive to a situation and a relationship, right? Yeah, I think it's sooner drug someone than try to have an

interesting conversation with the exactly, exactly. Yeah, okay. And that's kind of Nagoski's point. She writes, "I can't count the number of women I've talked to who assume that because the desire is responsive rather than spontaneous they have low desire. That their ability to enjoy sex with their partner is meaningless if they don't also feel a persistent urge for it.

So the road for masters in Johnson to what I just read, you has not been a smoother and even one.

“Once people started to accept that sexual desire was normal and even good for both men and women,”

our culture experienced a sexual awakening that took on many forms a lot of them problematic, right? Some of what you get is like the free lug movement of the 60s and the 70s, and of course the backlash to that movement too. Now, our subject for these episodes, Nicole Tidone, was born on August 24th, 1964, right in the smack in the middle of this massive period of evolution and how we talk about and understand sex. She had a difficult upbringing, her father Joseph

separated from her mother Beverly when Nicole was like seven, and her earliest memories are ever desperate desire to have more of a relationship with her father than she was going to have. In the book "Impire of Orgasm" Ellen Hewitt writes, he only visited sporadically and Nicole adored him. When he was away, she stood for hours under a street lamp on her house as cold a sack trying to stum in him. She invented bargains with the universe, certain that if she sang out loud,

the songs of Al Greene, her dad's favorites, and crossed the street with her eyes shut, spun three times to the left, her dad's car would roll into view from around the latest street. And that's, that's bleak, yeah. That's heartbreaking and also how many, I'd be really curious how many young girls were regularly singing weirdly romantic songs to their dad. It's a right to pass it in a way. Yeah. Honestly, that fucked me up a little bit,

just because weirdly enough to colonize, there's a lot of points where we have very similar beats in our lives. Like, I was very adjacent to this community, and some of these cultists, I'm sure it was at the same parties as some of them, just because of the places my life took me and the community side was in. But when I was like six, my dad had to leave us for like two years. Like, we were in Oklahoma on the family farm. We had no money and he got a job in New York

City and he lived on his friends couch and he made it with back money. And I did the same thing.

“Like, I can remember doing the same thing. Like, if I do this in this, he won't leave again. Right?”

Like, it's a very normal little kid thing to do. It's a very sad story. My dad came back.

Her's never did. Because it turns, and it's good. Well, it's good that he did. Because Joseph

was a creep and a pedophile. In 1976, he was arrested in charge with child molestation. Sorry, 41 minutes. 41 minutes. 40 minutes. 40 minutes. Yeah, honey. I'm almost free. That's 37 on mine. Yeah. Okay. That's in mind. The best is the new shirt. 41 minutes, pedophile free and 20 to 26. My son's so lucky. Not going to sell that shirt. But I, I say, yeah, so he does not like shirts that have pedophile on them. I don't want to sell anything. Thank you.

Yeah. Well, so he gets arrested in 76 in charge with child molestation, including oral copulation with a child under 14. We don't know who that was. But Nicole would have been around nine at the time. And much later, she would tell a lot of people. Like, when she's a young adult, she tells people that her dad did sexually assault her when she was a child. We don't know more than that. She's going to change that story dramatically several times. She comes up with a

different version of it for every major period of her life. And I just have no more to say than that. Right. I also don't know, was her abuse connected to what her dad got arrested for or was it something nobody ever knew until she was an adult? Whatever the case, as a little kid, she acts out in some weird but understandable ways. She has a thing for like, she likes biting knees. Like, she will obsessively try to bite the back of women's knees. She's like crawling around

and like bite her like on to whatever in the back of the knees. It's like a thing she's obsessed with, right? And, you know, she gets yelled at. I like Pokemon cards, but okay. It's weird. It's a little weird. And her relationship, she does have like an OCD kind of like, you know, ritualize it. Yeah. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Composience. She says it feels like there's an animal inside

“or trying to get out, right? Like that's how she would later describe it. As Nicole grew up,”

she seems to have had fairly minimal oversight from her mother and a deep hunger for self's exploration and discovery. She dated boys and girls and she had a sugar daddy at age 16. That's all we get about that. But she's, yeah, she's not very heavily watched, right? Years later, when she led an organization, often described as a cult, she was described in the UK times as having grown up, quote, a natural leader who says she didn't want to be followed. But that's not really

accurate. And it leaves that a pretty important detail, which is that when Nicole turned to 18, she cut off her father, right? Who's now at a jail completely. She has no more contact with them after this point. She starts telling people like whenever she gets to know someone that like, yeah, my dad did this to me when I was a kid and this is like a story that she tells a lot. She's like processing it, right? She goes to college, a couple of different colleges, but they

don't work out. So she finally winds up back in the Bay Area attending San Francisco State University.

The Guardian says she graduated, but he would her biographer denies this, either way, Nicole spent her 20s in the Bay during the early 1990s, which was both dealing and reeling from the AIDS crisis still, and also experiencing the birth of the Silicon Valley tech set, right? A lot of

really relevant part of the show because it's like a crisis of unfortunate. It's in the background, it's like a lot of things here. Like a lot of people, a lot of people in this story meet at or like, even if they don't meet there, they get into like experimenting with alternate, you know, medicine and all that stuff because they take mushrooms at Burning Man. Like that's a really common story with the for the men in this tale, but like a particularly, every time I talk

shit about Burning Man, I get like, it turns out someone beloved in the room is like, it changed my life, and then I have to like backpedal in an embarrassing way, even though I meant it. I mean, like, I went to the like the small ones in Texas, definitely at a huge impact on me,

but I never wanted to go to the big one because there's fucking cops there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want

to create my own little city and the woods to take drugs in if there's police officers. That sounds

“awful. That's how they got stuck, mudded in and all that shit. I know that's fine. I got,”

we all, we had a flood when you that nearly killed a bunch of people. It was fucking crazy. That part is fun. Yeah. I think it's like my inner like New Englander, but when I see pictures of Burning Man, I'm like, get a job. Like, what are you doing out there? Not having a job. That's taking a lot of drugs. Or in this case, I'm assuming taking a break from your job and silicaing your break from my job. I mean, we're like, everyone I knew. They're like,

have the people I took drugs with, like, fucking ER doctors in shit, like a lot of a lot of people with jobs were like, I have a very high stress job and I need a week to take drugs with my friends. Otherwise, I'm going to be crazy. I have to wear some really bad outfits this week to blow off some steam. Yeah. I'm going to dress ridiculously. Good Lord. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide. Not quite on humor me with Robert

Smigle and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden Kirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests SNL's Mikey Day and Headwriters Streeter side L helped an occapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Wasn't a humor me with Robert Smigle and Friends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's us to Jonas

Brothers and guess what, we have some big news. What's the news? The news. We created our own podcast.

Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to first people to

do podcast. Pretty. Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. But this one's extra special.

“So how do we, how do we actually come up with a name, hey, Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.”

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And oh, we were thinking I originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. Well, this is how you guys remember it going down. Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast. People could call in and say, hey, Jonas, and then i rubbed down on my little note pad. Hey, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title. Oh, thank you. What

thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to hey, Jonas, on the iHeart Radio App, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having troubles stopping the muscle growth. Listen to superhuman on the iHeart Radio App, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen Kingdom on Earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman had a pulse Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. For our easy Lamborghini's,

private jets, meeting the president of Turkey, our mischalmography, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracy's eye that ever come across. When Jacob met Levant,

this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds,

just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history.

“You need to tell me what you know is somebody coming after me. Jacob told Levant,”

"You're ruining my life." Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the iHeart Radio App, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Nicole, in her early 20s, starts experimenting with drugs, namely Methamphetamine,

Like, which is a crazy way to do meth in particular, but you do you, honey, I guess.

“She experienced with psychedelics too. She's taken a lot of acid and she's partying with people”

who are involved in the first internet boom, and also like, and this is burning man before, by the way, it was like a famous thing that the text had attended. This is when there's like guns, like people are bringing a full lot in machine guns and it's like largely insane libertarians. And wizards. So it's a slightly different period of time. What a weird, yeah, like transitional time in the bay. I feel like I don't hear about it.

Yeah, well, the very light to be a lot after. The bay is to be a lot cooler, and a lot, yes,

less governed by all of the people who are billionaires live here. Like, it was always weird

and maniacs lived there, but they were often very cool maniacs who gradually got priced out of the bay. So again, I had a very similar like 18 to 22 year old guy. Like, I'm going to do a lot of parties and doing drugs with people in weird places. And I also feel like Nicole that I was very let down by higher education, which I had been told. It was fun, and there were a lot of parties, but it was mostly just like high school part two. Nicole's also let down by working in retail

and food service jobs, which, you know, same. Like it sucks. You're a young adult and realizing this shit is not as fun as you thought it was. But periodically, you have, you know, these encounters and parties with people where you're like, spending like two days on acid and time stops existing. And you're like, boy, I wish I could just escape regular life. I feel like there's got to be a way to do that. And some of us right for the internet to get that. And some of us do what Nicole does.

She does. She didn't need to start an orgasm empire. She could have just started a podcast. That's right. She could have, she could have started writing for cracked magazine, you know, there were a lot of options. Yes. Yes. The brave and many, many lost, so many as well, cracked.com. So the big difference between like, kind of where our past diverge here is that Nicole starts, like, she decides that the kind of work that's going to take me out of this like rat race that I

hated first is like sex work, right? And she's a highly paid escort, apparently. There's some

evidence for that. She's fairly successful. And she realizes she feels really powerful because

all of these men with a lot of money who have been much more career successful than her aren't just paying her, but they're often like crying in front of her and like breaking down. And so she

“realizes like, she's this very important relation, which is that like, oh, it doesn't matter how”

like rich they are or like, how what what title they have, like, men are dumb and I can control them. Right. Like, that's the thing she likes. That's it. That's an important day. It's an important lesson. Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's a very common advice. I have several friends who are sex workers. And that is a very, very common thread that men often just like don't know how to go to a therapist. And so they go and seek out therapy from a from a sex worker. Yeah. And there's a lot of crying.

Yeah. Yeah. I had a friend who was an escort and one of her regular clients was this like big

Russian mob dude who like come in like twice a year and didn't even want to have sex would just lay on top of her and cry for like four hours. And like that was that was what this guy was willing to pay for. Yeah. It's just like, okay, that that implies some dark things about your day job, but you're like, you know, no follow up question. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. She's she's uh, she's she's she's doing this for a couple of years and he would write it's with each client. She

practiced her cold reading trying to deduce with the man secretly wanted. She quickly learns that her sexual insights held significant economic value. So the time she's 27, you know, this is kind of where she's at. And she gets a call from her mom that her dad is sick and dying in a prison hospital. Um, she didn't happen in contact. So she didn't know he'd gone back to prison. Um,

“but her mom tells you it tells her like, yeah, he's back in prison. Um, and that's how”

Nicole learns that her dad had been arrested for child molestation again. This time for abusing two pre-teen girls, including his 12-year-old granddaughter who was living with him. Um, Nicole, this hits very hard. She's shocked by this development. She travels to visit her dad. And as he die, she tells him that she forgives him. And again, we know this because she tells the story a lot. I don't know. Again, I actually don't know how true it is, but this is like an important

when she becomes a guru. This is a story. She will repeat a lot in the early years of being a guru, right? And the way she tells it, his death kind of convinces her to fully unmore herself from mainstream society. So like many of us did, she moved into a warehouse. My hers was in San Francisco. We're a group of the osophys live and operated as sort of magical commune and largely took a lot of LSD. Right? Many of us have had experiences like this. I think we find way to deal with things.

because it just like you hear so many points where she could have like, you're like, she could have been

“a fake medium. She could have done all sorts of many other jobs. Yeah, she's got so many skills.”

Yeah, she's got so many skills. And now she's living with wizards in a warehouse and taking acid every day. Now, right, this may not have been as fun because she would later. And again,

she's always saying this as she's like giving parables to her followers, to portray a message.

So who knows what's true? But a story should later relate while lecturing her followers, is that she moves into this with like a girlfriend of hers at the time. And her girlfriend is like very abusive and is basically playing her with drugs until she would burn out. And then she would hand her off to someone else to recover. And then take Nicole back and feed her more drugs. And, you know, Nicole would say, quote, until I wasn't saying, looking for Jesus in the streets,

adding up all the numbers on every house I passed, right, that like this, this is a very abusive relationship. And this one, like, uses psychedelics to kind of like shatter Nicole's psyche. You know, make sure you know someone for a while before you start taking drugs with them kids.

If you're going to take drugs with a with a romantic partner, don't take ecstasy on the first date.

That'll fuck you up way more than acid. Well, boy, what you don't need when you're starting relationship is a massive oxytocin dump artificially induced. And let me guess, all the men calling themselves wizard she lives with weren't helpful. I don't think they helped. I don't think the wizard's help. Fucking kidding. The wizard, not the author's been helped. Oh, man. So in Nicole's case, it led her to remain dropped out of society once she leaves the warehouse.

She's around 30 now. And she decides, I'm going to become a Buddhist nun at a Zinn Monastery. Like, killed a guard. Kind of. There's the kind of this madlips approach to her life that I appreciate. It's it's very bay area in the 90s. Yeah. I felt like my equivalent of it is like when you find out you're like Los Angeles therapist was in three episodes of SVU 20 years ago. You're like, right, this is the pit. This is this was kind of the point. Yeah. When you live up in the

mountains of Northern California and the 20 teens and everyone over 40 that you know in the cannabis business had previously lived in a warehouse in San Francisco. They take a drugs with wizards. Or they were part of. Yeah, anyway. So Nicole found aspects of the nun life appealing, but she was also really anxious about the fact that she was going to have to give up sex. So she decides like, well, before I do this, I'm going to just go wild for like a

“week and have a week of just like crazy sex before I become a nun and don't have anymore. Right?”

So that's her plan. A Buddhist room springer. A Buddhist room springer. In a 2025 article for the New York Times, Korean rainy describes what happened next. She met a man at a party. There is a practice you might want to try. Nicole recalls him telling her before they headed down to his place. A yoga Auschwem. Take off your pants and lie down. He told her. I'm going to take my clothes off. I'm going to stroke you for 15 minutes. It seemed insane at first.

She says, but she did as she was told. The experience was eye-opening. She says, I was walking home at night and just felt so clear. And first off, that's that's interesting. Like it really says a lot about kind of where her life has led her. That this guy says this and she's like, yeah, sure, I'll give it a shot. That said, I've also done so I got that because I met a stranger at a party. So I get it. Who am I? I mean, it's like, it's really luck of the draw of what kind of

areas you have access to. What kind of party you have access to? And who offers to take you back to what Ashram? Yeah, and like that man could have been very scary. Very scary. Apparently he wasn't. I mean, it's a slight yoga culting. I think the worst ever happened to me at a party of that

nature was that I briefly pretended to be really into WWE. It's Jamie. You just never know.

Yeah, I lived at a house in Houston with some very strange people for like a week and a half as a result of something like that. It didn't last. Thank God. Party. It ended badly. Don't tell me. You're gonna have, buddy. So yeah, in other encounters, accounts that she's given of this encounter and Nicole emphasizes that before this guy got her started, he just like looked at her genitals and described them to her and told her that they were beautiful and she

like cried, realizing that no one had ever said anything like that to her before. And this has become like, we'll become an important part of like the the her theory on orgasmic meditation, which she's going to invent based on all of this later on, right? This is like one of the steps

“that you have to go through in this, which makes being in a room full of like 20 people doing this”

really strange. So she finds this guy again. He turns out he's a dude named Irwan Daven, right?

Commune started in 1968, the Morehouse community, which could have been founded by a guy named Victor

Baranko, or Vic, who was himself a product of the free love and the self-improvement movement. He was also used to fly at salesmen. This is his big contact that's great here. This is just like a neighborhood rumor like you won't have any idea who you've just bought a wrench from. Yeah, where's Anne's been? So when I was writing this episode, I was planning for this to just be a

“quick to episodes. I think it's gonna be at least three because I had to go into the whole history of the”

different orgasm cults that have existed in the Bay Area, and the Bay Area is solely in California. Well, they spread, but they start in California. You damn sure about that. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So here's how Elenehue describes Vic's journey. Vic claimed to have learned the meditative, clitoral, stroking technique, deliberate orgasm, in his 30s from a self-proclaimed witch. When he and his wife were seeking help with their sex life, the actual origin of the practice is

hard to pin down, but Vic realized the value of the idea quickly. In 1968, he started a commune in Lafayette, California. He picked the name Morehouse because it was the place dedicated to living with More. Here's how one of Vic's latinants put it. We had more house believe that every day is Sunday. We believe that we are on Earth to have a good time. To devote our lives to pleasure,

“we call it responsible hedonism. I can't. This is so silly. It's so silly that this is, it sounds like”

a man who realized he'd never made his wife come in their 30s. And then instead of just

making her come was like, I have to start a business. There's money in this. Baby, baby, you know you could do that. She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could have done it at any time. Yeah, Mary and Man of the 30s discovers orgasms and decides there's money. Monetizing women's orgasms. Let's go. Vic. Oh my god. It's all occurring as part of an explosion of intentional and utopian communities around the time. And of those Morehouse is not among the most

toxic. This is like on the low end of bad for what things you might call cults in this period of time. Although it's still pretty bad. It's bad. And it's also corny. It's with corny makes it worse.

Cults always are in religion always is folks. And that doesn't mean it can't be an important part

“of your life. Part of what you should feel adore. It's an understanding that to be happy.”

You have to do embarrassing things. Right. That's it folks. Sorry. You can't be cool once you're no longer like 19. So give up. So Morehouse sells introductory courses. And these are all called the courses they sell. Like if you sign up and pay, it's called the mark group. And people are told they're called marks. You're being told that. They're jokingly saying like you are marks and we are like hustling you. Right. Like that's very open. And they're open about them. Like we're hustling you,

but you'll get something out of it. Right. Like we'll get your money and you'll learn how to have more better sex. Right. So that's that's the way they're kind of advertising themselves. Take you ED. There's an article, sorry. I found an article on KQED news as website. Quote. One notorious Morehouse event was a public demonstration in 1976 of what the group claimed was a woman having a three hour orgasm. And Baranco took advantage of California's

loose post-secondary education standards to turn the Lafayette Commun into more university, which offered PhDs in the humanities and sensuality and conducted with the organization said was sexual research. In 1992, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that the courses cost as much as $16,800. Oh my god. So this is that KQED article came out after like some lawsuits around this this group. And there's a lot of negative reporting that hits like come like the 80s and 90s

and stuff. Baranco's over the years suits several newspapers for libel. Those lawsuits all fail, but they make public some fascinating details about how the group works during discovery. Like that, there are more universities, advanced sexuality, class conducted research on quote, "ingorgement, lubrication, seminal secretion, and that one purpose of the class was to make friends with another crotch." So they're also gross in corny. It's starting to sound like

a disgusting prison experiment. It is, it's pretty gross. Like they're pretty gross about the wording. But also they're hitting like a bomb in a culture of like men who have no that you can like actually please your partner that like like that's something that sex can have. So the fact that a guy is being like no, actually in a very clinical setting, you can just learn how to like manipulate

pay money for that. It's a it's a business, right? And part because people can't talk about sex

“and they can't be educated about it really in this period of time very well. So there's a there's”

a hunger for this kind of thing. And you know what's what's going on kind of within the cults internal messaging is that the increasing scientific consensus on sex and pleasure is being twisted to argue kind of the same thing the Greeks had argued, right? This is set up as very we're trying to you know make men better and make you all a better sex and make women have a better time. But a big part of the scientific theories they come up with about sex and

orgasms is that women don't just enjoy sex more than men they're insatiable. And so there's

nothing wrong with treating them like sexual beings whether or not they want that, right? It's the

same conclusion. Wait, right, 2000 something years later. It's it's pretty wild when you lay it out like that. Yeah and now they're like printing money doing it. Oh yeah it's a big commune. Very curious

“about who's teaching these classes and what the gender split is there. It's so trick is it's like”

that honest face you know maybe there's elements to it that are positive and like are speaking to like how puritanical the US was and is about sex and wanting you know their partners to have pleasure but there is this element of like the profit like profiting off of it is one thing and it's also just like it just feels like a stealing of narrative too of like not only do I want to be able to like manipulate a clitoris and make make someone come I want to be able to like

brag about it and have a graduate degree and it's like still asserting yourself the you know I'm imagining like a fucking 70s dude with a huge mustache and like a bed but behind it is like it's like the wall of a doctor's office with his degrees and sex. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, Vix hole thing was in fact aping some really lazy interpretations of like feminism and like kind of modern sex science and twisting those to his own ends for one he agreed that women shouldn't

be expected to wear makeup or shave their body hair so he banned them from doing those things when they lived in the more house coat compound. Oh so travel big so close. Yeah well he traveled his properties usually in a golf cart because he hated walking he was weighted on by men and women and the women were made to wear French made uniforms. This service was called mating when asked why he did this he answered sexual liberation. People had very different experiences with the

more houses again most folks are not joining the cult they're taking some classes right but there are people who like live there and over the years they start they build separate more houses right we're like they're all over the country and they're selling courses and people are living there

“and having like compulsory sex right because they're kind of told you have to constantly be having”

sex there's like quotas and stuff and Vic keeps his strict in and outlist of his followers and he'll encourage them to exchange sex with each other in order to improve their standings. - How quickly does this like escalate? - 10 years or so I think something like that you know I mean it lasts longer than that but it's over like the first decade I think that like all this is sliding into place as human rights people were assigned job shifts as technicians and their only

duty was to fill a certain weekly quota of tricks or sexual service encounters. The technicians would look within the community for customers to have sex with that day and they would take payment using the group's internal paper currency residents were screened for STDs and from

bidden from sex outside the group Vic was criticized during his life but the griff never exploded

and some form of this community exists today as one former teacher later said the institute is a good scam we call ourselves hustlers and other people marks Victor hustles their asses in their souls he takes their dough to feed himself but he sees to it that they win too right now whether or not that's true it's something different people have very different things on you wouldn't say I certainly not everyone is winning not everybody but the more house institute is mostly relevant

to our story because if you know like in 1992 that's when they have like the more us institute has one of their big legal spats and they get a bunch of bad press and one of Vic's students so guy named RJ Testerman leaves the group to found his own orgasm cult the welcome to consensus which our friend Nicole is going to join in 1997 and late 90s okay welcome to consensus the welcome to consensus what an upsetting name I don't like that it like it honey it's yeah like

that at all uh yeah if you have any problems it's actually answered by the name of the organization yeah so go back to the side just go back to the side yes and the side jamey you got anything to

you you can listen to the back to the cast we're having our tenure anniversary soon which is nuts

we you can listen to we the end of house um I have a book that'll be available for pre-sale sometime in the summer of all it's you know check Instagram jamey kre super star rock on yep all right everybody uh this has been the episode we'll be back with more of us having to say it uncomfortable phrases to read and abroad cast like clistoral stimulation that but nobody wants to sit and read off a script that's not anybody's ideal date I don't know

“I think we all had a nice time part one as always the fun one part one is the fun it's because I've always”

been a pretty like sex positive guy and by the end of like the research for this I was like stop

fucking stop fucking you people are doing it wrong stop i'm just not doing drugs you do in that wrong too get a job all right we're done behind the bastards is a production of cool zone media for more from cool zone media visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the i-hurt radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts full video episodes of behind the bastards are now streaming on Netflix dropping every Tuesday and Thursday hit remind me of Netflix you

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