Part Three: The Orgasm Cult

- Cool, so media. - Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast that you're listening to or like watching right now.

“I think like 10% of the audience watches,”

but it's impossible to tell because streaming numbers are famously opaque. But you know what's not opaque? Our guest for the podcast today, the great Jamie Lough does here to help us finish

the epic saga of one taste, a Bay Area orgasm cult that went way too far. Jamie, welcome back to the show. - So good to be here. I am famously translucent.

It is nice to not be opaque. Yeah, I do wonder who's watching, but usually I feel like if someone is watching, they'll let you know, they'll let you know exactly what looks wrong about you.

So I'll give back to you with the numbers. - Good to know. We also have on the podcast today our producer Sophie Lickerman, who is not showing up through video,

because you don't need to justify that to you. You maniacs, watch the show,

“you don't need to know why Sophie's not going to be on video.”

She's not, deal with it. - Yeah, we don't need another subreddit about if I'm safe or not guys. - Yeah, podcast listeners, you can just continue ignore it.

- It's 26, I'm not, of course I'm unsafe. - Jamie, are you excited to conclude this epic story, 'cause we had a little bit of a break, a longer one than we usually do

between the first two parts and the third.

So I expect things to have been building up, edging if you will, as we wait for the conclusion here. - It did feel kind of like method podcasting that you sort of left me hanging on the edge of something thrilling for like 10 days, and now I'm ready to,

- What is like, is enlightenment known, the feeling of knowledge coming? Like what is, well, if knowledge is coming, what is that? It's enlightenment, Nirvana, it's interesting.

They come to the longer one taste goes on. The more Nicole DeDone who is again, like the leader of all this, gets everyone referring to orgasm as if it's like mana, and like a role playing game

or something, like your orgasm is low, or you've got a high level of orgasm,

or your orgasm's powerful.

So like you're, they refer to orgasm, not as like a biological thing that happens sometimes, but as like this mana pool that you build up over time, both through like oaming, through like receiving it, if you have a vagina or through giving oaming,

you build up your orgasm level, and it's almost like this mana pool that helps you gain powers, that's kind of how she talks. - We're doing what you were doing for us, and for the, okay, I see, I see this right.

- I wanted to raise your mana, yeah. - One of my favorite things about cult stories is just like the moving goal posts, and how you're like, oh, you thought that was coming. Well, actually, there's a secret different kind of come

that there is a huge financial barrier to access. And it's part of this like cults have to be all consuming. They have to like fill every space in your life. Cults don't want you to have like hobbies or you know, outside stuff going on.

So, you know, if it's a cult like Scientology, where it's supposed to be all consuming, you've got this totally different way of looking at the world in psychology in the mind. That's easier, but if you come in with like this really

narrow focus, like Nicole did, where it's just about, you know, kind of linguistically, you really have to like,

“you have to get creative to make that all consuming.”

Because most people just, it's not an option to have oral sex all day every day for that to be like your only behavior. So you really have to work to make that everything.

- Yeah, you should never, you should never start a cult

around something that is for you to do. - Right, yes, it's, it's gonna get difficult quickly if people figure out they can come for free at their house. - Although, you know, Jamie people have always technically been able to come for free, and yet one of the most reliable

ways to make money is assisting them in that. - So, that's true, that's true. And I will say, you know, say what you will about Nicole, but she certainly has gotten creative with it so far. - She's creative, she's creative.

- I have never heard quite of this. - Yeah. - This is an eye-harp podcast, guaranteed human. - Hey guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, I'm Joe. - I'm Kevin.

- And I'm Nick, and guess what? - We created our own podcast called. - Hey, Jonas, we invented a podcast. - Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our people to do podcasts.

- We used to ask other people questions 'cause we're sick and tired of being asked questions. - Well, sick and tired, it's a strong way to put it,

Listen to hey, Jonas, on the eye-harp radio app,

“Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.”

Just listen, we don't care where you hear it. - Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite on humor me with Robert's Michael and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden Kirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier.

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the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about in the news, body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff, we do a deep dive into the forensics. - Listen to body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan

on America's number one podcast network. Eye-harp, open your free eye-harp app and search body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listening. - The story I told myself,

can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. - This mental health awareness one

“tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown.”

If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. - Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect podcast network

on the Eye-harp radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - So, in mid 2006, one-taste used Rob's money. Remember our boy Rob, who's, you know, she's turned into like the male figurehead.

A lot of the time of the cold in this period, she uses his money to lease a warehouse and the cold mandates everyone's got to live together. Now we're all living in this fucking warehouse.

This would be the first of two different warehouses

that are like communal living spaces. And initially-- - It's like, "I swear houses, "where house could mean so long." - So during the bay, you know, it's off of,

what's it called? It's off of Folsom Street. So it's not like, it's an expensive area. Like it's fairly expensive real estate from the videos.

“It's like, "Oh, warehouse, but not a bad one."”

I am good. - Okay. - And time and San Francisco warehouses that are living well, Oakland warehouses that we're living spaces. This seems like one of the nicer ones, right?

- Okay. So around 50 people move in at first and they have to give up most of their earthly possessions to do so. Once they all live in the warehouse,

close it.

Basically, most things are communal and borrowed or shared.

People will like borrow and take each other's clothes. If you complain that someone's like taking all of your clothes or taking your stuff and that you don't feel like it's equal, you'll be sort of critiqued or attacked for being too obsessed with attachments.

Nicole starts having these. She'll go through a couple of different names, but they're all, there's these various different sort of group meeting structures that she'll do. Everyone sits around in a circle

and like critiqued each other. This is all downhill from sending on and the game that they played, where everyone's gets in a circle and then soul-cheat each other.

There's different versions of this, but it's a way to work. - The Radical honesty approach, where I'm actually, I'm being abusive towards you for yourself improvement.

- 'Cause this is why I'm trying to work. - That's why I'm trying to work. - Yeah. (laughs) So, people who complain that like, "Hey, all my clothes have been taken by someone else."

We'll be critiqued as being obsessed with attachments. You don't want to be too obsessed with attachments. We're doing this for the betterment of humankind, where you care that everyone's taking your shirts. Everybody sleeps, there's one giant central main room

with a dozen or more beds crammed together. It has to be like 20 beds, 20 something beds for 50 people crammed together. And like between two and three people for a bed, it kind of seems like.

I think it's usually couples, but at least from some interviews, it seems like some people are doing thrupples or for somes too. So, again, at this point,

you've got a few dozen, maybe around 50 full-time members, who have like really devoted themselves completely through the cult. And then a few hundred people in the Bay Area who are kind of taking their courses.

Some of these folks are casual. Maybe once or twice a year, they'll do a thing. Some of these folks are more regular. You know, they're coming in every month,

or even every week, to do a variety, maybe they're doing a mix of yoga, some OM classes, whatever. And that's kind of how the cult is limping along at this point in time.

So, we've 50 people full-time in the warehouse. Yes, full-time living together, completely committed. And then if 200 people who are like paying money, and you wouldn't even call those folks cult members, right?

So, it'd be more accurate to say, there's maybe 50 or so members, and then a few hundred customers, right?

“- Well, I think that makes sense for San Francisco.”

- Yeah, yeah. - Right, right. The cult is not at this point financially self-sufficient, but it is making enough money that Nicole only needs to like donations

from rich people to kind of seal the gaps. So, periodically, you know, probably a few times a month, should be like, okay, we need $1,000. So, we've got to find one, two, three, wealthy donors, who are willing to put in this much money.

And generally what she's doing is kind of, hey, remember you took this last class, we've got another one, it costs like five grand, but I know you're really attracted to this cult member, she'll be in the class, don't you want to get right?

That's kind of how this is, and that's not quite prostitution, but that's like on the edge, right? - Well, especially, yeah, she has too much, and she has all the power in that situation.

And also, I'm assuming that, you know, at least some of the times she's lying about that. - Oh, for sure, for sure.

“- So, yeah, so in a way that is trafficking, isn't it?”

- Yeah, there's definitely trafficking or trafficking adjacent. It's gonna get a lot more direct at this point

that's a little fuzzy, and she always brings this.

- I'm still enjoying the idea of all of the like, like, the few hundred people who are just sort of like one toe into the cults, I think we both live in cities where that is the case for about half of the residents, and I'm like, yeah, I know what I'm gonna do

until a couple of times. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - A couple times a month, I probably go to a place that I'm gonna read an expose about in a couple of years. - Yeah, I don't know.

- Easily, like I said, I'm not 100% sure, I haven't been to parties with like a bunch of one taste people. - Oh, look, 'cause I got high a lot in the Bay Area around this time. (laughing)

- I'm never, I mean, it's like, we're never gonna move into the warehouse, but you know, not out of the question that maybe you've been to the warehouse. - You don't know?

- I've been to a few, I've been to a couple of warehouse. - You're an open-minded guy. - Yeah, yeah, I'm an open-minded guy. I love a warehouse, you know? - I've maybe produced, but if I don't stand up,

I'm at it, Robert, at it, I love a warehouse. - I love a warehouse, I love a good warehouse. - Yeah, so, and this is kind of, so, you know, on one side you've gotten a coal reaching out to these folks who are like regular,

wealthier customers, these are Bay Area tech bros, generally, who have a good amount of money. So she's got a list of these guys who she's like, okay, we need money, I can reach out to these dudes and maybe that'll bring in five or 10 grand that we need.

And then on the other side, within the cult, she frames this often as like a game, where like, she'll go to a specific member to be like, hey, so we're doing a class and it's a high dollar class. I'll give you a free ticket,

but I'm gonna have to partner you up with so-and-so, 'cause he really likes you, you know, do you wanna free class, right? And she would ask you to do her like a favor, often for you, right, or a favor for them.

And so even outside of the classes, she's sometimes saying, hey, this guy needs, you know, I wanna convince him to sign up, would you do me a favor and favor is a hand job, generally. Usually when she uses that term, that means like,

I want you to jerk this guy off for me, outside of a class, and now we're really, now we're, yeah, come on, no, this isn't so, the line is the best, this is kind of from a very early point,

2005, six, she's regularly, it's not always,

but she's pretty regularly crossing the line into prostitution, right? - Well, this, like, it seems like at certain Epstein tactics, to me is like, it's not just your recruiting someone to go to a second location, it's your being trafficked

to go give a hand job to get to a second location. - Right, to get them into the class, where they'll then be going down on you for an hour, or for three days, or whatever,

“depending on the kind of class that they're doing, right?”

- Depending on how you go where how you are. - Yeah, yeah, how in the warehouse you are. And yeah, that kind of over time, this just becomes a major part of how one taste gets by. Certain money admin will pay for group workshops,

where many of the other seats are taken by other people paying for seats, including women, they're women in the Bay Area who pay for these seats, and they get paired up with these guys too. But a decent number of seats and holes,

kind of if we haven't sold, oh, there's 24 slots in this. We only found 15 people, and most of them are men, so we need to make up the difference with a lot of young females from the cold, right? - The ratio is off in the cold.

- Yeah, we gotta get the ratio. - Right, so by 2008, the constant struggle to keep the lights on in one taste,

'cause again, they're never quite in the black,

She likes the lifestyle, but it's also not quite working,

and I think she's aware of the risk.

“I think she knows I've crossed the line already,”

and we're still not profitable. Maybe I should either leave or try to like sell off my position in the cold to a mark, right? So she starts wondering, has this thing run its course, and just as she's wondering, like,

do I need to cancel, or do I need to end things? A savior appears, and that savior is the New York Times. - Oh! - So one of the reporters calls, and here's I've heard, there's this Bay Area company that's an orgasm classes,

and they're teaching people how to do orgasmic meditation sounds like a great story, and the cold is like, "Come on by, we would love to have you." Now, I quoted a couple of times in previous episodes from that New York Times article,

and what I really want to emphasize to you is that this is a bad and irresponsible piece of journalism. The Times does not come in, there's a couple of lines in there where they're like, some people say,

"This is problematic, and there's a couple references to they may be blurring some lines."

“And they're crazy to care about the New York Times,”

both sizing an issue, in which there is a clear right side to be on, that's so interesting. - No, they treat this like, it's a cool tech company. They treat this like, it's between somewhere between that, and an interesting new, kind of alternative healthcare thing,

like cold plunges or something. It's very much written like that, or when that dude was talking, doing all those classes, I can be submerged in the cold, we did episodes on them for crazy periods. It's like that sort of thing, where they're treating it

like a fucking Malcolm Gladwell book. - Oh, she made it. - Oh, she made it. Yeah, she says science tells us this about orgasms. They're just trying to be more scientific, right? That's how it's working.

- I feel like these are researchers. - How, the New York Times is its whole own set of issues, but how East Coast journalists often talk about West Coast trends, where they are just like, they're just cookie. They're just weird over there, check out these freaks,

and you're like, no, there's your sex criminals.

“- No, this is bad. - Other weird stuff you could conceive of.”

- Yeah. - And so as a result, the article winds up at working as an advertisement from one taste more than anything else, and that even features, they take photos of O.M. sessions of women being stroked and otherwise masturbated

in these different clinic classes that go on, but really works safe. So you'll just get like Sophie's gonna put one on screen for those that you can see. And it's just like beautifully lit photo

of just like the top half of a woman, and she's like, it's reversed. So like her head is facing down, and so you could just see her head, and she's got this like expression of ecstasy.

She's wearing like a black shirt or something, and has her hands like kind of folded across her chest, and she's lit, so that like it almost looks like her face, just her face is glowing. - She looks like a vampire coming back to life.

- That little bit. - That little bit. - You said to have this picture taken of you. Oh my God, I mean, it's good. - In the article, the framing of it, the title of the photo is Inner Bliss,

and a one-taste urban retreat center, a resident practices or gasmic meditation, partner not shown. - Partner not shown.

- Yeah, so first of all, in the article,

the times describes Nicole as a literal quote, sex diva, and here's Sophia will show you again, there's this photo Nicole's right in the center, there's her given a class, she's like, well lit, sex diva, Nicole de Don,

one-taste founders says women will experience freedom when they own their sexuality. - God, how proud was the writer who came up with the phrase sex diva? - That's a pleasure. - My dad, God, God.

- It's an interesting photo to choose, because it almost looks like a TED talk. - Yeah, well, great, Sophia, put a pin in that. So the article was a massive hit for one-taste. Suddenly, in a lot of like local TV news journalists

in the Bay Area are crowding in to get the story on one-taste, and most of them are covering it in positive ways. They're kind of bemused, look at this cookie thing, but it's like, good, these are not generally wondering is this all like a sex cult that she's just trafficking

her members to rich tech guys in order to keep the lights on. That's not really quest, you know? - And is she still like playing into the whole, I mean, what has kind of been striking to me about a lot of the marketing we've looked at

is that she's getting, she's got the girl boss scam of making it seem like this is good for women and women's gendered. - Yeah, yeah. - And the power, this is empowering.

- Going with it. - Yeah.

- Yeah, 'cause this is always framed as like the Juno,

this very large percentage of women have never had an orgasm, never had an orgasm with another partner, you know?

And that makes this, and then there's all this like,

and here's what we've learned about the health benefits

of orgasm, and so there's always this like underpinning of actual statistics and actual stuff. And as a result, it gets covered as if it's just part of the broad sort of body hacking body optimization stuff that's going crazy in the odds.

And so in very short order, one day starts picking up some really like mainstream partners, audible sponsors, one of their podcasts. They have like an erotic poetry open mic, like audible sponsors turning that into a podcast.

- They always, oh my god, every cult is trying to get stand up comedians in the door. - Some of the worst people are coming your door.

“They're, oh, the site never forget, I came very close.”

I was nearly persuaded in 2015 to go to a Scientology open mic. - Oh, that would have been amazing. - They have refreshments, they have refreshments. - Yeah, that's really done. - Awesome, I know, man.

- I know, I know, my career would have been a better place of sure. - Yeah, that sounds great. - Yeah. - So cult members were very active on social media,

and specifically like a lot of like local social media like in the Bay Area, so there's a lot of like posts about like, was at this great house party, here's some crazy pictures, and you'll see these like giant cuddle puddles, a bunch of young women,

and like 30% of the cuddle puddle will be like slubby Bay Area engineer looking dudes, right? These are all very much framed as being like, hey, are you like a nerdy guy with a lot of money who lives in the Bay Area, and maybe he's not good

with like women, this cult, there's lots of young women who are good to go. All you gotta do is pay to take a class, right? That's very much what the messaging is to join us guys. And a lot of new members are drawn,

and a lot of new male members in particular, are drawn in by post from residents of the warehouse talking about these wild sex parties, and you know, we've got a party, and they'll throw parties like on the beach, here's a one-taste party on the beach.

Come on, show up, you know, people are being played with drugs often at these events. They're being played with sex to get them to pay for and comment and take classes and stuff.

“I watched an interview with, and I think this is actually”

was from the Netflix documentary. I've watched a couple of interviews, but I watched an interview from one of these members who joined during this period of time. And this is a like a middle-aged nerdy engineer dude

who discovered one-taste via these posts. And it first assumed, his quote was like, "Oh, this either has to be fake,

or if it's real, they'll never have me," right?

But when he showed up, he found out that he, in fact, had what they wanted most, a credit card. Quote, "One night I was living on a boat by myself in the next I was living with like 40 people, sleeping in a bed with my research partner.

I was like this nerdy tech guy by day, and at night I'd go home and be in the middle of this craziness." And that's the appeal, you can keep being, 'cause they want, they don't want you to quit your job, if you're like making a lot of money in the tech industry,

you can keep being your nerdy tech guy by day, but you don't, you could actually be cooler than that. You've got a secret life where you researching orgasm magic, with like beautiful young women, and living in this free love compound. And so your life is a lot more exciting

than the other fucking engineers at Google or whatever. - And the fact that all of this is, 'cause it's like the wish fulfillment like the thing is very clear. She couldn't have chosen a better location to find this particular kind of guy, but,

and also this Silicon Valley detail of corporate sponsors for the sex cult is, wow. - It's perfect stuff, and you know what else would be a corporate sponsor for a sex cult?

- Oh, I have a feeling I know. - The products and services that support this podcast, some of them may have been, we've had audible ads before. Like, we've shared at least one advertiser with this sex cult.

- God, let's go to more than one, let's be honest. - Mm-hmm, more than one, almost certainly. Anyway. - God, what if it's an ad for it's an ad for it's an ad for it's an ad for it's an ad for it's a good chance. - It's a good chance it will be an ad for it. - I know. I know.

(laughs) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

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We have some big news. - What's the news, Vachines? - We created our own podcast called, "Hey Jonas, we invented a podcast." - Well, we didn't invent it, we just contributed to it.

- First, people to do podcast. - Pretty.

- Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. - We started in trend. - But, this one's extra special. - So, how do we actually come up with a name "Hey Jonas" guys? - I honestly don't remember. - I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

- Oh, we were thinking, originally calling it one of the early names of our band, before Jonas Brothers, this is how you guys remember it going down.

- We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

people could call in and say, "Hey Jonas," and then, "I" broke down on my little note pad. "Hey Jonas," and offered it up as a potential title. - Oh, I got it. - Oh, I got it. - But, thanks for remembering that, guys.

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We don't always get to have our loud.

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Wouldn't that be fun? Wouldn't that be a good time every day? - Just because, you know, comedy. - Ah-ha. - Comedy.

- Love it.

- So Nicole spent the first few years of the cult's life,

sharing spaces with everyone else. She's living there initially at the warehouse. But after a few years, around 2010 or 11,

“I think it's kind of when this starts to happen,”

she decides there's too many demands on her retention. Now, coincidentally, this is shortly after, she starts sometime around 2006 or seven, often on seeing and then eventually dating seriously, this Silicon Valley entrepreneur

and multi-millionaire named Rhys Jones, right? Now, Rhys, when they meet these guys, pushing 50, he's not in great shape, but he's just sold his company to Motorola for a shitload of money.

So this guy has spent the first chunk of his life building up and he finally cashed out. And he's kind of over the hill and looking to recapture his youth now that he's got a shitload of money and he stumbles into one taste for the same reason

of fly winds up in a Venus fly trap, right? It's made as a trap for this guy. - Rhys Jones, excellent name for an insecure multimillionaire, couldn't have made better myself. - Had to be a Rhys.

- Yeah. - Had to. And just, oh god, yeah, the idea of conceptually, I feel like we encounter them all the time. A 50-year-old guy that's like, you know,

I think I'm ready to sell to him. I think I'm ready to-- - I think I'm ready to-- - I was like, wow, huge, huge. You've really just figured it out, haven't you?

“- Yeah, I think I'm ready to settle down”

with a building full of traffic to people. So Rhys, yeah, one taste is losing money badly

like Rhys to prop everything up.

He gives them like a million dollars.

“He's absolutely critical to their survival”

during this period of time. So Nicole starts dating Rhys and this is going on from like two to six or so to like two thousand eleven. And she's over this period of time spending more and more time with him.

Less and less time at the warehouse around her members. She's going on vacations with him. She moves out of the warehouse and into a mansion with him because she decides that it's way better to live like a multimillionaire

than to live with her colleagues at the master base and store. Another classic cult moment where you're like, and now the leader has decided that personal space does matter only for that.

- For the leader, yeah. So from this point on, she no longer lives full time in the communal spaces with her cult members who are still technically researchers, but are starting to look a lot more like her workforce.

2011 was the big shift year for one taste where it goes from being a weird self-help culty thing to a Silicon Valley body hacking startup. Nicole publishes, I mean, and this is, there's a couple of big moments

that kind of delineate this shift from the past where one taste is very much like a descendant of these previous kind of orgasm, who cults that we talked about, right? - Okay.

- And there's not much to differentiate her from that until she publishes a book called Slow Sex, the art and craft of the female orgasm. And that happens like right as one taste is sort of maturing to be more of a service provider

and more of like a body hacking thing than a outward researching, you know, the future, we're researching orgasm magic too.

“We're selling courses on orgasmic meditation, right?”

Is that shift happens? It's kind of signposted by she puts out this book that sells very well called Slow Sex. And it's framed as a guide for both men and women and dedicated to quote the orgasm

may each of us find ours now, right? Talking again of orgasm like it's magic. What of the book jacket quotes for Slow Sex is by Ian Kerner, a sexuality counselor and New York Times bestselling author of She Comes First?

Ian said, "No." Slow Sex is, no, dude, no, oh my god. Slow Sex is the real deal on pleasureing a woman. For any guy who wants his 15 minutes of sexual fame to don't offer practical and inspired guide

to the orgasmic big leagues. What? 15 minutes of sexual fame? What? The male feminist has clocked in.

This is why I'm more than one of my female friends has given me a taser. Yeah, there's a lot, it's like just the-- Yeah, it's slow. She comes first, wow.

She comes first. She tays the second and you really see a lot. In terms of who the real customers are here,

'cause it's always framed as we're doing this for women.

This is for and by women. But that quote is like, yeah, for any guy who wants his 15 minutes of sexual fame, you want to feel like a big shot,

“you know, I feel like you're the best at sex and pleasure, right?”

Like you're a fucking sex god. Like that's what will make you into. Is the best, like, really what one tastes is selling? This slow switch to an orgasm is not something that happens for women but at them.

In this way that feels really like, but, oh, I don't know. It's gross. It almost like, it feels reminiscent to be of like a Justin Baldoni playbook of like, I'm me respecting women. Women is a business that I have and it is marketed at men

but it's for women and I just happen to be financially benefiting from it. - Yeah, now Sophie, I told you to put a pin in this. But the moment that most embody the evolution of one taste into Silicon Valley startup was Nicole's TED Talk.

Nicole to Done, orgasm, the cure for hunger. (laughing) - That's the end of this speech. And Sophie's got to play you a long clip from this fucking TED Talk that shows you how Nicole is pitching this to like a mass audience.

This is her gearing her pitch to like the biggest possible group of people, right? So here is like the mainstream focused look at this. - Okay, so I just wanna give it for the non-netflix watchers. She's wearing what I can only describe as like.

- Oh, yeah. - Peak like Express. - It looks like 2011 and there that's pretty damn scary. - Yeah, yeah. - With like a, it's like a, ooh, is this a tank underneath

and purple?

- Yeah, it's a, a serious woman would never show her arms.

So she's pretty peaceful blazer. - But a little bit of cleave is not, okay, sorry. - So I figured we're 10 people were fast. We're savvy, we're smart. So I'm just gonna break the ice for us, okay?

(audience cheers) (laughing) - It's for a blast. (audience cheers) - So that said, I wanna thank the people of TEDx

for having me on this stage. This has been a dream of mine that I thought was absolutely impossible. That we could have a relevant, intelligent conversation about female orgasm was just a distant dream for me.

I just fell in love with this practice. That's what happened for me. I gave nearly 10,000 hours to this practice. That's a lot of hours. (audience laughs)

But I learned some key things in that time that I am bringing to you. The first is that female orgasm is vital for every single woman on the planet. The second is, it's not so bad for the guys either.

(audience laughs) The third and on a much more serious note is that it roots our fundamental capacity for connection.

“It's for this reason that I believe that at some point,”

you will hear-- - They've got two women who let it out, just interested. - And orgasm. And you won't hear it yoga, meditation, and orgasm. So in 2004, I found one taste of urban retreat centers

with this thing. - I think that's that's why. - Yeah, yeah, I did that great. - Yes girl, give us nothing, oh my God. I love it, I love it.

That's peak, the 2011 Silicon Valley hype train nonsense. She's very much, she's doing a Steve Jobs, she's doing a fucking fairen house, she's really trying to thread that needle. And doing it very, honestly, very successfully.

This, this, this, give it a brief break. - I was like, you know what she was giving? She was like, I don't shop at Antaler. I shop at Antaler loft. (laughing)

- That's what I do. - That's what I do. - I really love, this is, I feel like a common feature of any time I'm like watching a TEDx talk for whatever reason, that mentioning at the top,

like I never thought I would make it here.

When I can guarantee you any garden variety narcissist can get a TEDx talk. It is not difficult. - I never thought I would email a fucking PR representative and show them, hey, look at how many followers

I have on social media, can I have a TEDx talk? - I never thought, God, I don't know word and not what every hack and grifter in the oughts and fucking early, 20 teens did a fucking TED talk.

“Like, I think we can, the us olds, remember,”

when there seemed to be some prestige around TED Talk? - Yeah. - But a lot of it was just a con, you know, a lot of it is how a lot of grifters grifted. - Particularly TEDx, which is like, - Prejudgmentally TEDx. - Prejudgmentally TEDx.

- Yeah, so if you was reminding me so much of like how we, we're encouraged to dress in high school and college, we're like, oh look at a picture of myself at 19 and be like, why am I dressed like I'm 50 years old?

- Why am I wearing business casual to the frat? - Why are we all dressed in business casual? - I shouldn't have been dressing like a huge slut and it was just such a missed opportunity. - I have the exact same regret, Jamie,

but you know what, there's always time,

we could do that in the room, I dressed as a huge slut for that period of time, which means I only wore at a hearty shirt, my pants, at hearty shirts, my underwear, at hearty shirts, my at a hearty shirts, actually not from at hearty.

- Oh, anyway. - That's the sluttyest thing a man could do at one time. - That is. - That was the one time. - So we're the Jamie and I are out here in our and Taylor law. - That's right, just like Nicole.

- They're the older than my mother. They're truly art pictures of me as a teenager where I think I look older than I do now. It's so bizarre. - I guess that was the older time for fashion.

- I will find a pant suit pick, I mean, like a little pant suit picture that will ruin your day. - There was a period of time, yeah, we just thought that like everyone was going to dress

like Hillary Clinton, you know? - Yeah. - If only, if only that had taken over. - Hillary Clinton wishes she found this outfit that I definitely got from H&M on sale. - Yeah. - You know?

- So, while Nicole was absent from the two different warehouses that her Colton members lived in

over the years, she was always present in spirit.

And by that, I mean, Nicole picked who slept in each bed. She had like a seating chart for beds in the commune spaces. And she would decide who was sleeping with who and paired with who was a research partner. And for all that Nicole over the years, she would sometimes date

women and she would portray herself and one taste is very queer positive because it's the odds in the '20 teens

“and the Bay and you have to despite all that,”

one tastes teachings and practice were very

- Well, even what Shah, how she was talking about sex and orgasms felt just, yeah, like because she's ultimately her customers are men. - Right, yes, exactly, exactly. So, I mean, there are like she does have to get a certain number of like female like customers buying in and getting into the cult

because she needs to use their bodies in order to further the business. So, it is true that, and we've talked about this, right? Like in the last episode I showed you, this was kind of the pitch she's making it to a lot of these women. But it is like the money part of the cult

is entirely focused at selling to men, right? She has to sell one taste to women to get the work force that she then basically traffics to get the money from the guys, right? So, there is kind of a two-part aspect of it, I guess, which is important to see.

- The name never gets easier to hear.

- I have to say. - No, it's always upsetting. So, as I was saying, men at this very heteronormative, like the actual cult's teaching and the cult is like kind of a really anti-queer past a certain point. Men and women are always pretty much paired together as far as I can tell

and a cold even break up existing queer relationships when people joined the group in order to pair them with opposite sex partners. Because she doesn't think queer relationships are real. The bleakest example of this is probably the story of two

one-taste members, Jamie and Caitlyn. They are a lesbian couple who were drawn. - Well, hold on. - That's a book, I don't know how to tell you. - I think these are fake names. - I think these are fake names.

I believe because I found this account from Ellen Hewitt's book

“in Byraborg as I think she's using pseudonyms for these people, right?”

- I think she's a back-to-cast fan or she's a back-to-cast hater. - Or she wants to know what's this? These are both. - These are both sympathetic people. So, Jamie and Caitlyn, this Jamie and Caitlyn are a lesbian couple who get into one-taste, they're like teenagers, they're young adults,

very young adults, and they're broke. And so they're both obviously interested in female pleasure, because they're lesbians, but they also don't have any money. And so being able to live for free in the bay in this warehouse seems kind of rad, as soon as they move in.

And again, they move in as a partner ship as a unit. Nicole tells them, well, this all is about exploration. We're all trying to grow. And you're not going to grow if you just stay with the partner that you like, and you're not going to grow as a queer woman,

you can't grow by just having sex with the people you're attracted to. You can only grow by having male partners.

“The only way to grow is a queer woman, right?”

And so you need to experiment with your sexuality, by letting men owe him you, right? And eventually by having sex with men. Now, in public, owe him is all that one taste is about. And in public, owe him is described in almost a sexual terms,

because they really want to avoid the allegations that they're just trafficking and sex. But within the actual commune, people aren't just owe him two times a day in the morning and two times at night. They're being commanded by Nicole to have intercourse, right?

When she's pairing people up for beds, those aren't just your O.M. partners. You were ordered to fuck them. And so Caitlyn and Jamie are paired with dudes in the cult, often with dudes, you know, maybe who have some money

that Nicole wants to make sure stay, right? But they're told they have to fuck dudes to level up basically. In order to like gain XP in this cult system,

in order to make your orgasm more powerful,

“you have to do these things that are physically uncomfortable with,”

because you're not into guys. And I'm going to quote from... Well, at this point, Jamie and Caitlyn as an ally to both are Jamie and Caitlyn paying for this or if they quote unquote being paid in free logic? Like how they're being paid, I think, mostly in free life.

Because a lot of members do pay, but a lot of the ones who don't are the women, especially the younger women, and these do are broke. So I don't think they, now it may be because they are getting some money when they're working for the company,

but it's very uneven. And those, one tastes will switch up what you're being paid at the last minute, and often you're feeding that right back into the company. So to the next, maybe they're being given money that they then have to, yeah. I'm not sure how it works for every individual person.

It's kind of different for everybody, depending on your position and how what Nicole is getting out of you, right? But to quote from the book Empire of orgasm, Jamie said that in courses, she heard a repeated message. All women are hungry for cock.

If you're not feeling cock hungry, you're not connected to a part of yourself, right?

Now, eventually, both women start having sex with male members of the group.

And this is psychologically devastating to Jamie. You started to feel like her desire for her girlfriend, to the woman, because they've been broken up, fortunately by now, but the person who had been her girlfriend was wrong. She convinces herself to push on,

because Nicole keeps teaching her resistances key to growth, and she really admires Nicole, and she also needs this place to live. Experiences Nicole tells Jamie aren't good or bad for you. Experiences aren't good or bad at all.

You choose the meaning. So, if you're deciding that this is unpleasant, sexual experience, that's because you made a choice. You could choose for it to be a good one. Why aren't you choosing for it to be a good one, right?

You're fucking abusive, this logic is just like, yeah, and it's still sort of falls under the early 2010s definition of being pro-women, and you could even extend this to like, Cheryl Samburg logic of like, it is your fault that you are feeling oppressed, it abused, and it is on you

to behave the right way to be extended in this environment.

“Yep, and there's bits of all, there's bits of the secret in there, right?”

You just have to change your attitude and you can change reality. And you can see both how people don't necessarily pick this out as poisonous initially, but also how, running with this logic, the obvious instead of this is that like, there's no such thing as rape, ever.

If experiences are not bad or good, there can't be such a thing as rape. You are choosing to be raped if you're raped, because you're choosing to interpret that as a bad experience. This is directly in those words, what Nicole will eventually be teaching her followers, right?

And that's really bad, like, that is, yeah, that's fucking horrific. It's so ugly, really horrific. It's, oh, God. And it's like that even in the way she's like, the number of like pressure points, she's attempting to attack is like, she's sort of telling people to dissociate,

but also telling them that like the failure to do so or the failure to feel pleasure or pleasure doesn't exist because it's abuse is a personal failure, but it also sounds like she's like, well, if you don't like it, then just pretend you are a person who likes it. Yeah, pretend you're a person who likes it.

Why don't you like that? And it's, well, well, yeah, I mean, yeah, well, we'll keep talking. So, in time, Jamie becomes a coach and she starts to see success in the organization. And this success, the fact that she's moving up the ladder so to speak,

validates is like the first, she, because again, this is a young queer woman who doesn't have

“a lot of life experience, I think had a pretty rough background.”

And so this is like the first validation she's gotten as an adult person. So she becomes extremely loyal, even though this has, she's been horribly abused by this cold, which is a common cold story, right? Sure, yeah. So then in 2012, Nicole calls Jamie and Caitlin in for a little one-on-one.

And she infords them, she's breaking up with Rhys, the Silicon Valley millionaire who had kept the cult alive through its bad years, but she still owes him a lot of money from all the, you know, because he's calling in basically, you know, the loans he'd given them. They have not just like discarded one-taste guys at this point, like unionized. And it, she hasn't, I don't fully understand the financials here.

She does not discard him. Some reports, I've said, suggest that she repays him by 2012, that she's repaid him for

like the million dollars, that he loans the cult.

But that's when this is all happening, and that doesn't entirely line up with this, because this suggest she's still getting some money from him in 2012. I don't fully know, and I don't claim to know, at which point was resgiving the cult money, which point was respeciving money, but whatever the case, at this point in 2012, she still wants to keep Rhys in the fold, even though she's breaking up with him, right?

Because she tells Nicole, I'm not going to, I have to move to Los Angeles, because I've

“important work to do there, which is she's trying to find more rich guys, right?”

But Rhys needs a handler, and I've been his handler for the last, you know, several years, and in my place, I need you two to be Rhys's handlers, so that I can move on to Los Angeles. And here's how Ellen Hewitt describes what happens next. Jamie Paws, everything she learned up to this point, had primed her to say yes to the position, and to do so willingly, idolizing Nicole, becoming accustomed to having sex with men,

and to having sex with any kind of man, getting off on any stroke, being told that she should provide anything to help the company, plus being asked to be Rhys's handler felt like an honor. Jamie knew that only a few women in one taste's history had held the same position. They were often Nicole's confidence, an admired group. She also knew the unspoken threat. The consequence of saying no is that you would be ostracized, ignored, and stripped of all your

power in that world. Jamie said, "So, I want to be clear that last bit, the fact that if you

that you've gotten from this world, that is something she directly tells people." During lectures, after everyone has experienced orgasmic meditation when folks are in this powerful cathartic afterglow, she will tell them this is a direct quote from one of her sessions.

“That's why this place is called one taste. Once you've tasted being inside of yourself and knowing”

yourself, there is some part of your soul that will always crawl to get back. The truth is,

if you get kicked out, your soul will never relax again. She's very direct about this. Yeah, I mean, and she's also just describing chasing a dragon. Chasing a high and one of the things when this becomes a quirky people say, "No, it was ever four steps, except with anyone. No one was ever forced to stay, and they weren't. They were just heavily coerced and basically told that life will be like a gray,

colorless hell of an experience. If you get forced out of this group, because you all fuck this rich guy." You're like, "Well, yeah, maybe then in that case, we should expand the definition a little bit." So, by 2012, one taste has totally come around to becoming like seen as a tech startup to fashion itself that way. Her followers in public-facing

“communications are talking less about all the crazy parties, and a lot more about how Nicole is”

like a philosopher, but also like a Steve Jobs figure, right? What is she selling you though? Like, what is the product? Or have the power magic? God, okay. I guess we're not having children overseas manufacturing our customers. Sure. So, in the years after 2012, you know,

one taste finally gets in the black, right? It had been struggling. It had been utterly reliant

upon these like infusions of cash from these rich dudes, and that's not really the case. I mean, kind of after 2012. It's profitable after 2012. The money is still coming from like rich guys who are paying for sex, right? Sure. But now one rich guy. Not one rich guy, and not her saying, "Hey, I need a loan, and it's her instead selling courses to these guys." Right? So, it's no longer loans. Like, it is a profitable business after this point. In fact, a quite profitable business.

One taste not only repays res, but it starts to succeed on its own, raking in millions a year, and they do this. They make this switch in large part by copying something Nicole had seen from the yoga industry. So, during the first part of the 21st century,

a lot of yoga studios begin offering teacher training. Now, this qualifies somebody to teach a

different kind of yoga. Most attendees who do teach your training don't become yoga teachers, because there's not that many yoga teacher jobs. And so, it's often they're doing it for self-improvement. It's being pitched as like, "Well, you take the teacher class, because it makes you that much better," right? And these are expensive. And I'm not, if you do, if you like, let's, that's fine, right? Whatever. There are some quotes within yoga, but also, it's fine to pay money to get better at a

thing that you like to do. Right? I'm not, I'm not shipping on it. It's an assuracy, but gentle touch from a beautiful woman. This is what I mean when it's like, "We all got our toes in the called." Right. A little bit, peace. And so, she takes that idea and moves it over to one taste. So, she starts selling teaching courses. And this is like, this will certify you to teach a whim and to do classes of your own, right? And there's often more advanced, because there's

“endless layers and endless every teacher always wants to be. You have to be up on the latest”

things. So, every year, there's a new class about the stuff that you have to get to stay certified. And it's another $5 to $10,000, right? These are multi-day courses. Again, these are a lot of these are hugely expensive. And I'm assuming that the teacher, the teacher training also includes abuse? Well, yeah, I mean, yes. Like, that, like, big, sure. Yes. Now, Nicole had offered a coaching program since 2012. And this takes off. It's successfully. Make money of it. So, increasingly,

one-taste pours all of its efforts into either hosting coaching classes or selling them, right? They recruit a huge crop of students in 2012. And eventually, they are going to license, or whatever, more than 1,300 people as home coaches. Each of whom have paid probably well in access of 10 grand to get to that point, right? Okay. In some cases, much more. The company starts turning a profit in 2013, and before long, they are making a surprising amount of money.

Nicole begins bringing in celebrity guests to provide a sheen of legitimacy. They start doing cult events. They have these, like, one-taste mastery for which are like these big, you know, they're these, like, conferences and stuff for the one-taste family for all the people who are coaches. Because now there's one-taste houses in different states. They're starting to fill up and people who do in classes outside of the Bay Area. So, they're doing these courses and they're

she's hiring celebrities to, like, talk to everybody at the start of these, like, three-day and five-day events for one event in 2013. She hires Dr. Jocelyn Elders, the former attorney general,

Wow. I'm sure she just cast the joke. In a way, it is always wild hearing the celebrities

“that you, that, that cult manage to bat for things like this. It's, it's, it's a good, it's a good”

reminder that people are desperate for attention and refuse to do even a basic level of research. Of course not. That's offensive. So, I want to show you guys an example of an ad for one-taste mastery program, which is one of their, like, really advanced, you know, certification. So, Sophia is going to play that for us now. Looks like the Masterclass logo. I was good at saying that. It does. It's a very tech logo. Masterclass Master. Something else. Well, it's, like, this is a course in how to open your

sex life. It's a way for you to research what your actual boundaries are. It's that lady asleep. I'd like to make sure that my whole mouse, my whole tone, sex without boundaries, all the screen is the wording. Yeah, that's upsetting. And it makes sex a whole new paradigm.

I learned how to slow down and actually feel everything that's happening. First is constantly being

in my head. Oh, my God. Great. Looks great. I love that one of their quotes is sex without boundaries. No. There's at least three phrases present in the advertising that could plausibly describe a salt. Yeah. Energetic sex. Also feels kind of like a line. Also with all of these, I mean, I guess something that, like, it feels like a big other than, like, the techification of this sex cult. It's like, Ben decades since this has been accessible to

anyone who doesn't have an insane amount of disposal. Because, like, the original is going to be trafficked, right? Right. Right. Where it's like the, the earlier sex cults were, like, at least, you could be, you could be trafficked as someone who doesn't have a lot of my way around. Yeah. The cuts to rooms full of white people with bad haircuts really does kind of pull it all into focus, like, what's going on here? Yeah. That's so bleak. Yeah. In that remarkable, it's so

MLM, it's so, yeah. It's, it's, it's really upsetting to me. It's upsetting. Again, coming out of, like, the sex positive, you know, community, the, like, the idea that anyone could hear the phrase

sex without boundaries and not immediately be like, whoa, wait a second. What are you talking

about? What do you mean by that? Because that's a, that's a dangerous phrase. It's right. And it

“feels so, that's why it's like going back to the New York Times article. Like, it's so clearly”

praying on people who don't have basic understanding. And it's just how they imagine, like, non vanilla sect to work, non vanilla sect to work. That video really, really, really reminded me of next year. Yeah. It, very similar. And I, I did watch this until right now. But honestly, that's part of what's most upsetting to me about all of this is that she's almost set this up to be, like, a fly's web in between people who, like, are know that they want more out of, like, sex than

they're getting, know that, like, maybe what they weren't educated, they didn't get a good enough edgain, like, what sex could be. They want more out of, like, their relationships than they feel like they're getting. And there is, like, a sex positive, a kink community where people, like, aren't trying to, like, just take your money and abuse you where you can, like, learn stuff like that. If, if you're into that, and she's created, like, the spiders web in front of it

to in snare people, but in a way that is very much different, because, like, if you were to, like, every kink community, every kink event that I have ever been to, starts, and a lot of, like, education in that starts with boundaries and boundaries setting. And the importance is not sex without boundaries. The important is knowing what your boundaries are and having ways to make sure everyone else knows them and that you're communicating them and that you can, like, that's

what's important, like, the, the, it's so fucked up to create this thing that is meant to almost, like, stand in between that and people who are curious in order to and snare and hurt them.

“That's very much what's happening. Hey, Jamie, is Barbie naked behind you?”

Is Barbie naked behind me? No, she's wearing a painted on bodysuit. Oh, okay, great. I was just making

Great. Great. Thanks for trying to get Robert. Robert, now that I've checked in on Barbie, it is time for an ad. Yeah, we should do an ad break. Okay. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? We've created our own podcast. Oh, hey, Jonas, we invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. First people to do podcast. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of

podcast. But this one's extra special. So how do we, how do we actually come up with a

“name, hey, Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should”

call it. And oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. Well, this is how you guys remember going down. Yes, I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast. We could call in and say, hey, Jonas, and then I broke down on my little note pad. Hey, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title. Oh, the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to hey, Jonas,

on the eye heart radio apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen, we don't care

where he hears it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite on humor me with Robert's Michael and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden Kirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guess SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, streeter side L helped

“an occupile band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement”

homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert's Michael and friends on the eye heart radio apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the inner Cosmos podcast and for mental health awareness month, we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience,

we'll talk with singer songwriter Joel about anxiety. I started living in my car and then my car got stolen. I was shoplifting. I was having panic attacks. I was a chorephobic. And making it through hardship. To be present is a learned skill and it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with

leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety and John Hirschfield about obsessive compulsive disorder and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can do about it. Listen to the inner Cosmos on the IR radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

This week on crime lists were joined by our first ever guest.

Sorry, our first ever human guest. I don't think I could be in the same room with Shamrock the pair. I'd be too nervous. That's right. The very funny will-feral joins Rory Skolen Me, Josh Dean for an episode dedicated to the many crimes committed by people also named Will Ferrell. My car is fellow officer for the nippers. What is the nippers? Very good question. No, I'm singing but that'd be a good name for like a salad dressing simple assault and it's a play-on-word

assault. Maybe not. I say we invest and we see. There's only one way to know. This did not amuse the cops. By the way, normally the cops are amused but this did not amuse the cops.

“Will even comes clean about some of his own crimes. I think I got you know why?”

If you don't want to be suspected of anything, you whistle as you walk. Listen to crime lists on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. All right and we're back. So I just sort of closing the loop on talking about kink where like I feel like truly kink communities are our best communicators like it and it makes me really sad like you're saying to see people who are seeking something out and then very likely

getting scarred to the point where sex at all is going to be definitely traumatized. But at least they were parted with $10,000 in the process. Yeah, at least that happens, right? Yeah, so um as the most expensive courses went from $10,000 to $10,000 in the big money started rolling in, much of what the early members had loved about life in the cult changed.

researchers. In fact, there's like a big announcement that like you're no longer researchers.

You're now employees and now in fact most of you are salesmen. Most of you are like doing calling, right? Like your job is to call people and try to get them to take classes, right? Like that's the new business is selling and teaching classes. You're no longer. We did the research. We figured it out, right? The experiments over. So they moved to a new warehouse which has semi-private rooms and yeah, everybody's salespeople now in order to justify this change.

Nicole tells her followers the universe is made of love. Sales is love. Therefore, the universe is made of sales. Okay. On the level of cruelty and evil, she's capable of she's half-assing it with this fun. She's half-assing it. That's lazy.

“That's lazy. I'm sorry. If what it sales is love and love. Really Nicole, that's what we're going”

with. It's a measure of her charisma that no one leaves on the spot after hearing that. So one of Nicole's most valuable members and employees during this period is a young man named

Saeed who first gets drawn into the group because he wasn't loved with somebody. He goes to like a

class and he falls in love with someone who lives at the warehouse named Maya. And he basically tells Maya, "Hey, I've got a crush on you." And she's like, "Well, if you're in to me, the best way for us to hang out is for you to take more classes here." And eventually, he winds up moving in. Now, Saeed is a really conventionally attractive guy, right? And he starts being used by as a lure, by Nicole and Rachel, who's like her head of sales, this woman, Rachel, and like

the other people running the cold seaside, both as like maybe a way to get off themselves. Also, here's a really hot guy. We can use him to bring in both hot women that we want to work

“and join the cult, but also maybe older women who have money to spend on expensive classes.”

And they want to be paired with this hot dude, right? So a separate part of internal one

hate-taste culture, as I've said before, these like circular meetings where people will, you know, one way or the other, the purpose is for you to get insulted and mocked and derided and have like a cathartic experience, right? So people will sit around and ask Nicole questions and she'll answer them and like coach them and say, "This is what that question tells me about you," right? During one of these sessions, she focuses on Saeed. And she asks

him, "Why do you think so many of the women here like being paired with you Saeed?" And here's how Ellen Hewitt describes what happens next. Because I'm willing to violate them, he started to say, I'm a member of surprise shot through the room, as Saeed remembers it, and then the students started cheering. He was cut off, but he had wanted to say, "I know how to violate them in ways they want to take them to their edge, but I also don't make them feel taken advantage of or left

empty or not held afterwards. All he got to though was violate. After that, everyone started calling him the violator. Another one-taste executive decided she would call him the fucker." That says a lot. Both this, they love that term. Because they love the aggression. That's a bigger

“and bigger part of it. Is that like aggression is good? Some violence is good, right?”

Sex without boundaries. Yeah. That is, that's not how I thought that anecdote was going to go. Nope. That is really, I thought, I genuinely thought it was going to be people who were get becoming uncomfortable, interjecting, being like, "Yeah, that is what it feels like, but it's doubling down and saying, so we're just deep enough in at this point where it is sexually violent and I'm shocked at how willing they are to say it." They're willing to say it,

and the craziest thing to me is that at least if this is being reported accurately by Hewitt, and I have no reason to believe it's not. Sure. The violator is the one being violated here, right? Because after Nicole hears this, she loves this as a branding thing, and she uses Said as she starts calling him their hook, literally their hook, because he will pull women into the company's classes and gatherings, and there's a lot of

women who like our, you know, maybe want to explore that kind of thing, and maybe want to explore some more aggressive stuff. Said doesn't want that, though. He doesn't actually like being the violator. He doesn't like being called in to do all of these like violent and aggressive sex acts in order for Nicole to make more money, but she keeps telling him to go do, go be the violator again, go do that this other, we've got this other woman who wants it, and is willing to

pay if you like spend some time with her, right? And Nicole keeps asking him to go further and further. She signs him to have sex with a one-taste executive named Emma who thought the violator sounded hot, and she starts using him to rev her up as her words before speaking events. She'll show milk, make him come in and masturbate her, and then she'll go out to give a speech. On another instance, one of Nicole's top lieutenant's racial, who's also ordering say he'd have sex with her periodically,

petulant brat, and shouts at him and gets everyone else in the compound shouting at him until he

“agrees to go upstairs and do it. Again, say he's not forced to have sex exactly. He's just”

braided and mocked and ostracized when he doesn't, right? He is forced to have sex, I would say he is beat, but in terms of the people who defend this will be like, well, he could have left. He was bit guy. Why didn't like know what's stopping him, right? Because they're not a great. Yeah. It is wild how, I mean, how Nicole is, you know, doing classic, like she's she's going full darvo, and then like, I mean, like all calls like that there, it seems like a lot of why this is working,

is not only is she praying on, you know, probably his masculinity, but also that berating is a part of the culture. So no one would flinch at someone being narrated, that is a part of it. And it's celebrated. Yeah. She talks a lot about people needing should have sharp scalples, and that she celebrates that we all have sharp scalples, which means we're good at cutting each other. It's good to cut each other. We need to do that. It makes us stronger.

“These are, this is Nicole's literal language, right? You just want like someone in the room to have”

a moment of lucidity. Like, so what is the goal here? No. Why didn't we start doing this? It's the cut. That is, that's really, I mean, it's pretty bleak. Yes. So like a lot of one-taste cult members say he does also queer, he's bisexual, and at one point he admits interest to a man to Rachel, and she allegedly calls him the effort and forces him out of her bed. So again, this is a very, like, queer phobic anti-queer environment, too, for the people living in it.

By the late '20 teens, one taste was more profitable than ever, and had transitioned entirely to depicting itself as a Silicon Valley startup. People had once been researchers exploring the frontiers of desire and sexual power are now operating a call center, spending days at a time awake, struggling to hit aggressive sales targets. Nicole successfully convinced many of them that selling and buying courses was the infinite game. She talks a lot about games, right? This

is very much coming out of these other cults, right? Yeah. As infinite growth, because we're in Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley, right? And anything was justifiable, as long as you have to keep the game going, right? Per an article in Bloomberg, quote, "one-taste taught members that money is just an emotional obstacle. It encouraged students to take out multiple credit cards to pay for courses, and some turned to such sites as GoFundMe and Prosper funding for help."

The first time I didn't cover my credit card bill, it broke something in my mind,

says Ruin Vipalaga, who went to his first one-taste event in 2012 at age 24, worked for the company for about two years, and left only $30,000 on his credit cards. I was no longer afraid of debt, he says. Once you break that barrier, 3000 is the same as 30,000. At one point, Vipalaga complained that he and his co-workers hadn't been paid in two months. He says he was publicly shamed for having a scarcity,

mind set. Oh, and another hot button phrase that's caused by Vipalaga's use. Nice. Love it. 3000 is very different than 30,000. Very much so. My guy, it's 10 times. 3000, actually. I don't know, but there's no scarcity, mind set, so if you have a real money,

and you're like in an LLM, you're always been told. What? What's the div big deal?

You're going to pay 10 grand. This will make you so much better. It will open you up. You'll make that much so much more money than that. Like, when you're being bullied, you're being bullied, you're being bullied. Right. Right. It's an investment, you know? Now, that Bloomberg article was published by Hugh at the author of the Book and Pire of orgasm in June of 2018. She was not the first reporter to write critically about one taste,

but she was the first to write critically about one taste and have it matter. The vast majority of mainstream reporting on the company, as it was generally described, was bemused but open-minded. In fact, if you want a really good study in journalism versus PR,

“you should read that first 2008 New York Times article, The Pleasure Principle,”

and then Hugh Whitt's article. Now, I think the best example of this is how the times wrote about Vick Baranko, the Morehouse founder, that's like one of the earlier orgasm cults. This is the guy you liked to crush women's vaginas with his hands when he was in a bad mood. Here's how the time described Vick. Morehouse's founder, Dick Baranko, was a former appliance salesman who called his philosophy responsible hedonism by some accounts, Mr. Baranko, who died in 2002,

used coercive techniques of mine control. It was a huge ego crushing machine, as any valid monastic tradition is, said a man who lived at morehouse for more than 20 years and did not want to be identified. And like, that's all you guys had about more, really. That's all you had. The New York Times. That's all you needed to say about them, you thought? I mean, the New York Times is stand out for this, but it's, God, I mean, it's a lesson that no one ever seems to learn.

because that had to probably be hard to get through. Like, you just have to have an editor

“that actually cares about stuff in order to get that done. I don't know, I'm saying, I'm sure”

we all have like, I have like three Los Angeles cult adjacent things that you're just like, well, I guess we'll just see if a journalist has been through it at some point, but it's, that's thankfully, one did, right? You did, you know? And not only for this article, she'd get dozens of brutal accounts inside life, of life inside one taste, accounts at the times could have got some of them at least, the times could have gotten. But not only that, she forces one taste in

this article to address the worst allegations of abuse, Vlan Vlech who's the CEO of one taste in 2018 admitted to her, we took money from people that we shouldn't have, right? So she even gets just within the article before the backlash to it. She gets them to like, oh yeah, you know what, this lady has our number enough that we have to cop to some shit. So by the late 20 teens,

“one touch had spread to a number of other countries. This started with Nicole ordering specific”

offices opened first in New York and then in Austin, LA, London, but also there's a bunch of

independent one-taste houses that are being established all over the country. Pretty the book Empire of orgasm. Almost 500 one-taste students would live in 33 different O.M. houses. This informal network mimicked the way many Silicon Valley tech startups were met metastasizing rapidly from city to city, Uber, Lyft, Instacard, and other on-demand companies prided themselves on blitz scaling and operating with little overhead or liability to avoid getting dragged down by

employment costs. The startups hired drivers that is independent contractors and required them to provide their own cars and equipment. Similarly, many of one-taste sales workers were independent contractors paid on commission. That's all the Silicon Valley grift, right? Yeah, it's a classic grift and it's kind of a creative grift in that there is actually no real products. Like the overhead couldn't be lower because what you're selling is assaults. Yeah. Speaking of that,

when Nicole had established the second warehouse commune, you know, they they move out of the first on full cement into another one. This is the one that has like semi-private rooms, which seems like a positive move, but when they move into this place, Nicole makes it be the rule that none of the bedroom should have locking doors. And after this point, all of these OM house franchises around the country abide by this rule to disastrous effect. Now periodically, throughout this long journey,

Nicole and her top students would experiment with broadening the curriculum. On several occasions, they attempted to create male versions of the cultural stimulation workshops, right, to where you're

trying to teach people how to give a hand job really well, I guess. And this never works out as a business.

Nobody, for some reason, nobody wants to take a hand job classes. It's just so hard, that totally funny. It's completely funny. No one interested at all in the Dick version of this. If you tried to tell people that like know, the the Pinia Lorgas was actually a sacred and magical. Get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here. No, it's not. You can't sell that. I'm sorry, nobody's buying it. No, that's too free. That's too free. You cannot, no.

Do's are so screwed up. You only to make money. And that, for it ways, is to make people stop coming. Like, you can convince people, there's magic in never coming, right? But you can't convince people that like a Dick is magic. It's not. If it was, we would know by now, we would certainly know.

So it's very funny to me. And the reason he who it gives for like these classes never take off

is that one touches a ability to recruit young women, both to pay for classes, and to provide the sexual labor crucial to the organizations focusing doesn't work. They're less interested if there's also hand job classes. That makes this seem like something else. If it's all focused on just

“people with the giant as being massaged, right? And if that's the only thing that's happening,”

you can convince yourself, this is like really women led and like women positive. If like, there's also jerk off classes, that doesn't work. That's just not to itself. And so, so the jerk off classes being completely unprofitable, uh, incidental. Super funny. That's so good. So, um, a lot of like, a lot of these people are comfortable being massaged, taking a no-im because they're being told the men are not getting any sexual gratification out of this, right? So if you add any kind of

male sexual gratification classes in there, even though a lot of men are getting gratified, that's kind of how the money is being made, you have to hide that stuff. So earlier in the

consensus orgasm cult who once punched a lady because he had been taught that violence was a kind

of honest communication. Nicole eventually recruits this guy as a teacher because she knew him at the welcomed consensus and because she's reintroducing a lot of these welcomed consensus curriculum about like violence, uh, into the one-taste curriculum. And she changes the way they frame it. And her words, the way she describes this, the term she likes to use, is skillful violation. And skillful violation means that you know it's better for someone to push through

their boundaries, even if they say no, so you don't listen to the no. You violate them even that they say no because you're skillful enough to know that they actually need to have their

boundaries violated, right? Curious what your opinions are on this, like, is, why is it escalating

towards such absurd violence? You have this feeling, is it because there's nowhere else for it to go? Right, it's just escalating it to like, how can I retain control and eventually it just becomes fear of tactics? That's right. If you're honestly trying to help people be more sex-positive or like teach them kink stuff, there is a point at which, and it's a pretty quick point, which people are just kind of good to go on their own. You know, they're going to go to like parties or events,

they're like takes specific technical classes on how to use whatever whip or a fucking saying Andrew's cross or whatever, but you don't, they don't need to keep paying money to a group. They don't need to keep listening to a guru. You kind of give people a basic and they're good to go

“if you're not going to do that in order to keep them following you have to constantly have more”

new curriculum. And eventually that's going to wind up in some really dangerous directions, right? And for one taste, it ends in sculfle vial. And she Nicole justifies skillful vialation being a thing by teaching that only 25% of human communication is verbal, right, trained O.M. experts, learn how to read the non-verbal 75% of communication. Which I'm sure you don't even realize what you're thinking or what you want. So a skillful vialator is someone who's been trained enough to

be able to read someone's real desires and then be able to force them to experience those, right? At their annual conference, O.M. X1 year, one taste staff or shirts with penetrate written on the front. No, great stuff. No. In 2013, a member of an O.M. house in Austin posted on O.M. Hub, the Colts Internal Social Network, and claimed that a man had repeatedly entered her room and sexually harassed her, because again, the doors don't lock. This blows up internally. This is

like a causes of problems. People are saying, shouldn't we be able to lock doors? Who was this guy? Should he even have been there? This seems like a problem. And initially, Rob, comments internally and apologizes and says, like, we'll get right on it. But after that, a bunch of Nicole's

“Lieutenant's come in, and I think this is actually racial who comes in and is their due damage”

control. And one of the Lieutenant's posts, as a woman, the easier thing for me to do is say, I was violated. That way, I don't have to look at my part in it. Oh, okay. Okay. You're part. Okay. She was the room that won't lock. What was her part? Like, it is insane how regressive. Yeah. It gets okay. Now, by this point, Nicole has added a section to her coaching program lecture where she claims to have seen a 2013 study from somewhere which researchers studied

in which researchers studied rape victims to see how they'd healed afterwards. And Nicole claimed the women who recovered were the women who took responsibility for the action. Right. Okay. So this part of what she's teaching. Now, this becomes an increasingly important message for the cult, because in 2014, a sales meeting was called. And one of Nicole's representatives told the company, it's really important that we not break any prostitutions laws while selling

courses. And attendees say, like, oh, that was a moment where I realized they're kind of telling me to prostitute myself, but just not to talk about it that way. Otherwise, they wouldn't have brought that up at all. Right. Now, Nicole increasingly lectures about how sexual trauma is the result of not wanting sex enough. And as she taught, if you change your mental state to ones that

accept one that accepts sex as always a positive thing, you literally can't be raped. And while she

gave these courses, she would talk about how she was sexually abused as a child and explain

“the only way I healed is that I accepted I had actually caused that situation by coming on to him”

and also that it was a good thing. Right. That it made me more powerful. Likewise, if someone expressed a fear or a phobia related to sexual trauma, the solution was to embrace that trauma and find a way to enjoy it. People are encouraged slash forced to participate in rape and bondage

the places you hate are your practice. They're actually your biggest gift. They're the places where you get free. Now, this line of bullshit. It's deeply fucking depressing because it's like not only practicing dissociation through being actively abused, but again, going back into like all of these, she's capitalizing on these popular narratives about cake and by like suggesting that you would only be interested in this if you've experienced extreme trauma and enjoy dissociate. Like it's just

such a portion. This is so dangerous. It's really bad. Yeah. 2016, the company made $9.4 million.

Gwyneth Paltrow praised them openly. They do some like goop stuff. Chloe Kardashian talks about talking at the ground lawn. Tim Ferris does like a podcast thing about them. You know, at the most advanced stage of the grift, one taste was breaking into the mainstream or at least the mainstream part of the Wu's self-help world. While the public facing part of the company was very much in line with the body modification, self-optimization, Bay Area culture of the era,

that's not what's actually going on internally. And inside, there are ongoing experiments that are like virgin on a cult nonsense. At one point, Nicole starts initiating priests of O.M. and selling like $15,000 classes where rich guys can participate in these like drug-drenched

“sex magic rituals and get like certified as priests. And I think Nicole's idea, because this never”

fully turns into anything. I think the idea at one point was that if this is successful enough of enough, guys are interested if this proves to have legs, maybe we can apply for tax-free status and call ourselves a religion, right? I think Nicole was like exploring and just doesn't quite get the chance to live this grift out. I mean, she is committing enough sex crimes, I think, to qualify as a tax-absorbitant. Yeah, you know, she's committed enough crimes to be a religion.

So she is getting much more reckless with everything as the years go on. I found at least one account from a former member who claims Nicole applied these rich tech guys with drugs

at these high dollar classes. And you know, these are not only they're basically paying to get

into an orgy, but like at one point, this one member says Nicole specifically doses a dude

“with a bunch of LSD to try to convince him to donate another $250,000 to the company, right?”

So that's part of what she's doing. I've honestly shocked it because of how modern this story is that there is no, it doesn't seem like any member of the cults who has that there's been no significant whistle blowing incidents by this point. Not yet. Peace is a common out, but yeah, that's not going to happen until 2018 when he puts that article out. But because the men with money are so core to everything happening here, Nicole's teachings trended towards explaining how it was good

from into the angry and controlling to women. She called this "letting out your beast" and praised it. Everyone was increasingly encouraged to be brutal towards each other, to cut each other up with their skillful scalples. Nicole also praised intimate partner violence, most of which seems to have been man on women. Women were who were beat by their partners, were told that they had caused the situation by doting his beast or not understanding his beast enough. If they sought to escape

abuse of situations, they were insulted from fleeing it from his beast rather than meeting it with

love. So, these OM pre-classes and orgy sessions could net as much as a million dollars for one

taste for a five-day class. These are the real top dollars. And the guys, they are just paying to get into an orgy with a bunch of young women, right? Right. But it has to seem like school as well. It's got a right right. And this works for years without them getting in trouble, but it couldn't last forever. By 2017, there's a couple of pending lawsuits and there's some like rumblings that bad press might be coming, right? And Nicole decides to separate herself legally from the

group and the hope of gaining some sort of plausible deniabilities. So, she sells the company for $12 million dollars to like her wealthiest followers. And this is framed as the company maturing, right? Nicole's still going to be the spiritual and intellectual leader, but one taste is going to

“be run like a normal company with like a CEO and a normal business change chain of command, right?”

Now, initially, it seems like maybe this will work. In 2018, 30, 5000 people had attended one taste events and cities around the world. And hundreds of members lived in OM houses and multiple countries, OMing twice in the morning and twice in the evening and often quitting their careers to sell courses. But, that same year, Bloomberg published hewits first bombshell article about the cult, which described it as looking like a prostitution ring. That article quoted former employees saying

time, it's about the fallout from this article. One taste went quiet. It shut down all centers and

“courses. A group of about 30 senior practitioners, including Nicole, retreated to the land, which is”

like a chunk of land that they're starting a compound on, right? Then came a BBC podcast, the orgasm cult, a Netflix documentary, orgasm ink, a device documentary, and a playboy investigation. On June, in June of 2023, the FBI stormed the land, to don't ensure wits that's Rachel

were arrested. The company has spent about $15 million on legal fees since 2018,

suing the BBC, suing Netflix, suing a former member, being sued by another member for alleged sex trafficking and fighting the criminal trial. And yeah, that's that uh, and it's one of those things where they were committing these crimes the whole time. It's as soon as that article comes out. The FBI's like, oh, I guess we gotta look into this. And there's just immediately tons of shit to make charges on. Rachel is like, she accused of targeting vulnerable people by advertising

that the companies like classes could fix sexual drama, telling people to take on debt to pay for classes with holding wages from employees, isolating people by demanding absolute commitment. She's accused of participating in abusive employment practices, subjecting members to economic, sexual, emotional, and psychological abuse surveillance and doctoration and intimidation. And to don't is accused of, you know, participating in or of sexually trafficking, people of

a whole bunch of bad stuff, right? And there's a lot, we don't need to get into everything that happens in the court case, you know, just a few weeks ago, earlier this year, to don't was sentenced to nine years in federal prison. She is convicted. So it's Rachel and they are sentenced

both to prison sentences. And again, it gets like nine years. Yeah, which as always seems low,

seems low, seems low. Judge Gujarati says that Nicole caused long lasting if not a reprobable harm to former one-taste employees. What she was doing wasn't about enlightenment or operating in a different dimension. It was criminal. To don't is not accepted any wrongdoing. Neither has one taste. The people currently leading things still stand by her. And basically say she's the fucking best. They're apparently like at least the way they're framing it is we're waiting for her.

You know, as soon as she gets out, you know, we'll be able to get back to the important work. Jesus famously returns. Yeah. That is, what does she end up getting convicted on? I'm curious.

“Oh gosh. Let's get the exact list up here. Does that mean obviously it's so interesting as part of it?”

Yeah. It's so, because every time I hear about a case like this, and then you hear the actual

conviction, it doesn't like she was able to probably get out of a lot of consequences by being able to argue, well, technically there was a degree of choice, even though people were so cyclized. Yeah. I thought that I would argue that's not true. I mean we'll see how much that help, but she does get like it's a forced labor conspiracy. Like it's conspiracy to commit forced labor that she gets in trouble with and gets convicted of like forced labor conspiracy. Like it's

like the actual crime she's convicted on is forced labor conspiracy alongside a little under 900 grand in restitution and two-year supervised release. And it's just so far seven victims confirmed, right? That's based on this. The only accomplice who goes down with her is Rachel. Obviously a lot of other people were complicit and still are, but yeah, I don't think one taste is going to have the juice to survive until she's done, but we'll see. Lord have mercy. I know truly, let's

I hope not. I hope not. But usually with something like this, unfortunately they're just going to be another grifter that that innovates in the fields of, you know, taking advantage of people. So. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Holy shit. Well holy shit, Robert. Has this influenced any of your thinking on how to create your own cult, Jamie? Um look, the call, uh, this was a truly horrific one. I, I feel like she really, uh, did find a way to incorporate almost every grift of the last 20 years.

It really is impressive. A single, there's an element of false feminism. There is an element of capitalizing on male loneliness. There's a class element to it. There's an entered labor. There's force labor. There's a tech element. I mean, it really does kind of run the gamut. And she almost became a religion. I think that really would have been the bingo, right, is to rebrand us religion.

“That's what I will do eventually when I finally best this with a cult that's about the opposite”

of orgasming. I'm going to teach people how to poop right. You know, I think that's the next drift.

name. If you get better at it, there's magic. It'll make you immortal. Look, media literacy is

“a little time low. I think you should call it poop right. Get to the point. Poop right, call it”

one place. I have to think too hard. And like by three years on, I'll be teaching people that like if you're, if you're not eating an all-greyp diet, like God is going to kill your children or something like that, it'll go crazy after a while. But up to that point, we'll have a lot of fun,

you know? Yeah. And I will sell so many supplements. So many supplements. It's all basically all

supplement. Oh, my gosh. She wasn't selling supplements. That was a big, that was a myth. She wasn't actually. You're right. That wasn't an error. That was, there should have been a useless product. Yeah. There were so many things she could have sold on the one-taste name. Oh, she fucked it. God. I guess when I'm, when I'm signing over my $20,000 check, uh, I hope I'll remember to withhold it when you're like, actually, the best way to poop is to punch your spouse

before it did. That's the only way to really release is to assault someone immediately before taking

“the healthy shit of your life. Jamie, I would never do that. But the key to pooping is to live on a”

boat for several years, like robbing merchant vessels for me in order that I can like sell the proceeds.

That's, that's how you do it. That's kind of brilliant to sell a poop on the you could, you could take. That's right. That's right. That's right. Okay. Wow. This was a good work, Jimmy. I think. Yeah. This was good. I feel good about that. Great stuff. Yeah. I think we're on our way here. Jamie, you got any plug-ables here? Oh, man. The usual, I have a book coming out next year that there's no link for, uh, so I'll, I'll let you know when there's a link for it. But for now, listen to

the Bechtelcast every week, listen to Wee the Unhoused, every other week, both on Thursdays and Tuesdays respectively. And, uh, and yeah, take a, take a healthy shit for free at your house tonight.

Do that, do that for me. Yep. All right, everybody. I'm trying to undercut your business.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Thank you. All right, everyone. We're done. Go away. Bye. Behind the bastards is a production of cool zone media. For more from cool zone media, visit our website coolzonemedia.com. Our check us out on the I hurt radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Full video episodes of Behind the Basters are now streaming on Netflix dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me of Netflix. You don't miss an episode. For clips and our older episode catalog,

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