Part Three: The Phil Spector Episodes

Hey everybody, Robert here and the International Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences have announced

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Webby Awards. You can vote on these now if you're just Google the name of the podcast and the category behind the bastards is been nominated in the experimental and innovation podcast category. What could happen here is in the news and politics podcasts category and James Stout's mini series migrating to America, a dream worth dying for has been nominated in the podcasts

documentary category. And you can find links to vote for each of these podcasts in the episode description and in the post on social media for episodes of the cap in here and behind the bastards. Thank you. [MUSIC]

Welcome back to Behind the Bastards every one I'm Robert Evans. This is a classy podcast about the worst people in all of history.

Always introduced by a beautiful musical accompaniment, courtesy of our guest.

Crazy will. Can you imagine this? No bastards. [MUSIC] It is hard to do.

No crumbs to review.

“Imagine all the podcastists, one whole day even to you.”

[MUSIC] Imagine there's no robots. [MUSIC] And there's so big too. [MUSIC]

Don't forget to heal every Tuesday. [MUSIC] No one's so creeps for you. [MUSIC] Yeah, imagine all the people.

[MUSIC] No van now stood to you. [MUSIC] You're messa, I'm a dreamer. [MUSIC]

The peace of all is made clear. [MUSIC] The whole world is called the Bastards. [MUSIC] And there's so hell Bastard.

[MUSIC] Imagine there's no robots. [MUSIC] Or tech-reach from this case. [MUSIC]

No toys and gas dictate us. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] Or libertarian dreams are. [MUSIC]

[MUSIC]

The top rubber would finally have free.

[MUSIC] You messa, I'm a dreamer. [MUSIC] But if the best it's worth it. [MUSIC]

[MUSIC] [MUSIC] That was beautiful, well. Thank you, thank you.

“Yes, this was an entire composition by me.”

I reproduced this all because today we are going to be talking a little bit about the Beatles and about John Lennon and Phil Spencer and his relationship to all of them. And so yesterday I decided, I had so many things to do that I was kind of like lose my mind and I thought, what could be better than ignoring all your things, getting blackout drunk and

making a tribute song for this week's second week here on Phil Spectre episode 3, which I thought

this was going to be like one episode. I can't believe we're getting two songs. Yeah, well I had to, it was like, I got to keep the fans interested. I judge it good. So yesterday I got your gavel, honorable, it's official, yeah, that was beautiful.

And I do wonder a lot, will I wake up scared every night, like the people finally figured

then I wake up and someone's committed a horrible crime against you.

“And then just like, thank God, thank God, like, do you even just opening your phone,”

you're like, oh, cool, still okay, yeah, yeah, I still got to do it, thank God, thank God. Oh, man, well, this has been a cold open and it's a musical cold open. Very warm cold open, very warm cold opening. This is an eye-heart podcast. Guarantee to you, man.

This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics. A screen good down, good down, those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex. Listen to Worshack, murder at City Hall on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the on-purpose podcast.

My latest episode is with Noah Khan, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global

hit stick season on one of the biggest voices in music today. Talk about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. Getting the talk about this is not common for me, right now I need it more than ever.

“Listen to on-purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever”

you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Noah Jones and my podcast playing along is back with more of my favorite musicians. Check out my newest episode with Josh Grobin. You even didn't have the fans know what that's for me. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom of that.

That's so funny. Shetty, stay with me, each night, each morning. Listen to Nora Jones is playing along on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ready for a different take on Formula One, look no further than no grip, a new podcast tackling

the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Playing me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the story of the woman who last participated in a Formula One race weekend, the recent uptick in F1 romance novels, and plenty of mishab scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years.

Listen to no grip on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're hearing more about Phil Spectre, if anyone notices that my robe is covered in hay, it's because it just fed the animals. It's a robe. If you do not said anything, I just assumed that was a regular winter jacket, but no, you're

wearing a robe. No, it's a robe. Well, it's a robe. I got it. Caesar's power.

They know that when you're buying this. Well, that's my favorite part. When we last left Phil, he and Ronnie had just been married, and he went to visit his mother, birthed. Literally the day of, right?

He went to visit his mother, birthed her. Of use of us ever. Yes, truly terrible. When he gets home, he's drunk as hell. He starts screaming, and he's all mad at Ronnie and everything, because he believes

she's taken his money. Ronnie and her mother spend the night locked in her bathroom, hiding from Phil, scared,

“you know, and they sleep in her bathtub, on her wedding night, that's how she spends her”

wedding night. Cool. That's romantic. So the next day, Phil wakes up, realizes he's a bastard, and changes all his ways. That's the end of the story.

It's just great. Wow, you really put a lot of work into the song for a long episode, but I appreciate it. Yeah, well, sorry for you, Phil, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't. I'm crazy.

Well, Phil went down to spend the rest of his life, voluntary, get a children's hospital. Yeah. He's up with children. He's just kind of a shitty husband at this point, you know, and it's like, I guess it's behind the shitty husband's, that's why I'm far so far.

Well, I also, he's fucked over a lot of women. He has. He's been horrible. He's in general. He's a horrible person.

Yeah. So his relationship with his mother is strained at best. He doesn't let her come into the studio at all, he doesn't, he doesn't like her being around at all. Sometimes she does show up at the studio, and she still calls him Harvey, which pisses

him off, you know. He does show like refuses to ever call him Phil. Yeah. And that's why. And she'll like randomly show up in the studio with like, like, moths of all soup

And be like, "Phil, you need the eat." And he's like, "No, not turning down too much." I know. I would not either, but like, you know, whatever.

“He's also probably consuming his weight and cocaine every day, right?”

So I'm imagining not much of an appetite. He's not a really a drug user as much he kind of looks down on drugs mostly. He looks down on artists that do drugs. Yeah. His.

When he does get into the vices, it's mostly, it's mostly alcohol, you know, it's mostly that he's an alcoholic, but he's super jackal and hide with it all the time. It's like, he'll go, and he'll go through, like, this is his whole life. He does this, like, periods of sobriety and then periods where he's just getting lit all the time.

And he's one of those guys. He's pissed by people, like, doing, doing blow, he does smoking weed. He's talking acid. Right. Yeah.

He doesn't seem to really, like, it's not really mentioned about weed. So I especially assume since, like, the beetles and everything, it probably was fine with weed, but like, definitely didn't like cocaine being around in the studio. He's not the cool party guy. Yeah.

Yeah. By the time he married Ronnie, right, he's barely seen his mom, but that's when his sister, I burn this same time, his sister gets committed to a psychiatric and facility and great. She will remain there for the rest of her life.

So Shirley has gone from the story now, a fill will never talk about her ever.

He never discussed her and because of that, she just kind of just disappears to his. I mean, obviously, she spends the rest of her life pretty much in and out of mental healthcare. So yeah. So she's gone. Right.

Okay. Fill at the same time. This is when he starts transforming his home into a literal fortress. He's got this huge mansion in Hollywood and he's got gates all around it. He's got dogs.

He's got multiple, like, guard dogs. He's got a guy who's basically, like, his, his, like, personal body guards. Slash also, he's, like, regularly, like, he gets his, like sandwiches and stuff. Yeah. He's, he's, he's doing George Brand.

He's, he's around for most of this story and a lot of the stuff that happens. He's like involved in in some way, but he seems to be just a pretty, pretty decent guy. But, um, over, overall, like, like, part of his job is to monitor Ronnie, part of his job is to monitor the visitors that come by if, if, like, if somebody comes in and, like, like, a guest or whatever, he's not to leave the room while they're there and stuff like that.

Okay. Yeah. I knew one son of a really famous and wealthy guy and who was otherwise normal, but would periodically get really paranoid while, like, out hanging out doing normal person things that they were going to get kidnapped, like, that was a constant, even when there was nothing

happening, no indication of it.

“And I, I guess that, like, I think that just happens to some people when they start to”

hit that level of, like, wealth and fame where they just can't stop thinking about all of the people that, all the things that might go wrong, all the people that might want to take it from them. I don't know. Side story and a really correlating side one that is music industry.

I once worked for both Getty who is the great grandson of, oh, like, those Gettys. Those Gettys. Yes. His dad is the Gettys that was kidnapped in Europe and had his ears sliced off and everything.

So it's like, it's understandable to carry a label of paranoia, you know, like, I could,

and like, when he talked about it, like, it was always just like, yeah, man, like he did

not seem very trusting of people, just showing up at his place, you know, we were going to kidnap my friend, but we just never got around to it, and he didn't have any money. So he's doing it for no reason. And also, like, with the whole Patty Hearst thing, became like a very popular, right? That's such an interesting story.

Yeah. All right. So Ronnie has restricted inside the house. She, she can't really do much like she, uh, she's not allowed to leave, ever. The doors are always locked, feel always locks the doors.

He's big on that. Um, so as she's her isolation intensifies, she began drinking heavily. Uh, they'll actually gave her the first alcohol she ever had. She did not drink until she was well into like her relationship with Phil, and Phil gave

her the first, uh, the first sip of alcohol she ever had.

“But now it's becoming like one of the few emotional outlets available to her, right?”

It wasn't recreational at all. It was absolutely a coping mechanism inside an environment she could not safely leave. Like, uh, Phil's behavior becomes increasingly unpredictable, alternating between affection, surveillance and intimidation. He gets more and more controlling.

He would tell her to stop focusing on her music, you know, and like be a good wife. And that's what she should do. And that's her job. And, uh, he no longer even pretends that like to be interested in taking her into the

Like, she very, she has no career anymore.

“Being like her, like the Ronettes are still doing things like touring and stuff like that.”

She's just not a part of it, right? Right. The group that's literally her name say Ronettes, you know, Ronettes don't have Ronnie anymore. Yeah. They're still touring.

And because like, you know, again, like, it's very like bands back then are very amorphous.

You don't really know what a lot of them look like because you've never seen a picture of them,

you know? Sure. Um, so no one else knows or whatever. But um, because she's drink and heavily, she would sneak down stairs. They had a bar, right, because fills and then, you know, in the entertainment industry,

people come over there. They have a bar. And, uh, but he would lock it up. And she would just come down and Jimmy it open and drink all the liquor that's inside. And then, you know, and Phil obviously sees this or whatever.

Sure. Uh, even though she's stressed and, you know, isolated and going through this whole thing, they still are trying to have a baby, you know, but they weren't able to ever conceive. And the blame was always past to her, despite, you know, fill being half of that situation as well, you know, um, sensing that she was getting frustrated with life as a shutting

in 1968 for her birthday, Phil bought Ronnie a Camaro.

But even in the gift came the air of control, he had the car monogrammed with Vs for Veronica

Spectre.

“So everyone would know that she's his possession, right?”

It's like, wow. Because she's the cat on a livestock air. She's, yes. And she, um, she's like, you know, musically, she's known as Ronnie, right? So for her, he, he starts calling her Veronica all the time specifically as a measure of

control. Like, you are not Ronnie anymore. You are Veronica Spectre, you are Phil's wife, right? Wow. Whatever.

Harvey. Was that his real name, Harvey? Yeah. The emphasis on really forcing her to, like that in front of her face is interesting. Yeah.

And it's the inspiration his part too. It's about to get even better. Yeah. Yeah. Good.

This is a quote from Ronnie from, um, from B. My baby quote, it might seem far fetched that anyone would put that much, much energy into controlling someone else's life, but that was Phil. You've got to remember that the man was a genius and he had nothing better to do with his life after he retired from rock and roll.

So turning me into the perfect wife became his major project, just as making me into a number one singer had been his goal five years earlier. So, you know, he, this is what he spends his time doing instead of music now is just being maybe there's other things he could have done with his life with his, with his vast fortune and access to the halls of power and entertainment.

Maybe other things. Okay. Uh, this next part is, is easily my favorite Phil Spectre story. We're going to get into, all right, so there's going to be some very troubling things and also some extremely hilarious things that you will, you just, I'm going to tell you

all right. So I understand that when we're laughing, we're also crying, you know, I want to make sure everybody knows that this is funny in retrospect, but in, in, at the time, I'm sure it was horrific and straight warnings and all that shit. Yeah.

“As you have to laugh about afterwards, because that's how else do you handle it?”

Crazy. Crazy. So, when showing her the brand new Camaro, he goes to the trunk and he pulls out an inflatable mannequin dressed exactly like himself. Ronnie has come back and he's about what about it.

Yes. And he tells her, this is for when you're driving alone, so no one will ever fuck with you. She really got it. Phil has this dummy just to walk over her when she's not, when he's not with her.

Yeah. He's gone like dummy. And like, she talks about it extensively, like, it had, like, his face basically, like on it, you know, like, he's been, you say it's a blow up dummy? Yeah.

Yeah. It's an inflatable dummy. And he's got to dress exactly like him, like, he's got it. And he puts it in the seat and she's like, he's got one of the clothes for the dummy. Yeah.

Hey, why does the dummy have a gun, Phil? It's so funny. Yeah. It's so relatable dummy with a gun. He's popping himself every time he's trying to send a message, but I just can't figure

out what it is. Phil, the dummy, you shot himself in the head.

I've never seen anything like it.

So just 10 days later, and only four months after they're wedding, Ronnie hired a lawyer to file for divorce. But almost immediately, she rescinds and says, okay, I'm just, I'm being silly, like, I need to chill out. I'm not, this doesn't have to be this way, like, it definitely, you know, probably,

I mean, a bit of early marriage jitters, because this guy's a giant asshole, like, maybe

You know? Yeah.

“I'm sure many of my ex-wives thought exactly the same thing.”

Yeah. No comment. Well, look, I can't stand me. I think you're perfect the way you are.

So Ronnie says that Phil was never physically violent.

It just, it wasn't his style, but his emotional and mental abuse was legendary. Yeah. When she falls in suffer as a minor sprain and he has to leave town, he hires a nurse to look over her while he's gone. Sounds, that sounds nice, right?

He hires her a nurse while he's at a town. So the nurse is there to forbid her from doing anything. She's forced to sit in a wheelchair and use a wheelchair while he's gone, so he can't get around or whatever. All right.

And then he's not, he's not just like controlling her with the nurse. He's also, I mean, he is controlling, but he's also having the nurse give her heavy duty tranquilizers. Oh, shit. Oh, cool.

So that she just has no like willpower to do anything while he's gone.

“She has just, yeah, she's just put her on pause.”

He's put his partner on pause as he leaves for the weekend or whatever. Yeah. She doesn't like a Tvo. Kids don't know what Tvo is. Like a vigil.

And again. So yeah, so he's literally like, she has some friends come over and her friends are like, why are you, what are these pills you're taking? Yeah. She's like, the nurse just makes me take them.

I don't know if they are. They're like dead inside. Are you okay? Yeah. Right, man.

So Phil eventually lets her get back into the studio, but, and writes a song for her, but it bombs horribly. And he uses it as justification for her to no longer pursue her music career. Years later, she realizes that Phil likely gave her a bad song for that exact reason.

And she finally resigns to just be the housewife that Phil wants it to be.

So he like, he gives her a purposely bad song. And it's like, see, it failed. You should just be a wife. Yeah. He's trying.

Great. That's like gaslighting. You really have to, that's how cool. That's how cool. That's how cool.

That's how cool. That's how cool. Literally like, I'll fuck up my career, just a fuck up your career. It's the opposite of what I want to do to like write wingers who fail at a Hollywood or whatever and try to end going to politics is just like make fake fans in a fake industry.

Like, oh, yeah, you can fill fake medicine square garden bin Shapiro people love to hear your speech. Yeah.

So yeah, so she finally resigns and just be the housewife.

And they adopt a baby boy named Dante. Okay. But Phil doesn't want anyone to know that this baby is adopted. So he sends out fake birth announcements being like, we welcome Dante to our family and like, when people ask, he tells her like, just tell her, just tell everybody, because

like, obviously she was not pregnant and then she has a baby, right? And he's like, just tell everybody that it was, it was a premature birth and that's why, you know, we, you didn't see me pregnant at all because I was barely ever pregnant, you know? That's not how that works.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's 1967 or something shit, you know, it's like probably, you know, it's like, it's not like face time exists or whatever, you know? Like, you could go a good time without really seeing somebody and then be like, you might

mess if pregnancy entirely, yeah. Yes. Um, so she gets the, the, the baby and everything, but she's not allowed to be a mother to the baby at all.

“So they get like a nanny and the nanny does all the work and Phil's like, that's why”

we hired a nanny. What are you doing? So he's like, you're doing nanny stuff, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So he's like, you tell me to be the perfect wife and the perfect mother and then, then you yell at me whenever I'm trying to be a mother, she completely gives up on having a career. All right. And then this is from, this is from Ronny's book, quote, besides he pointed out, who's going

to take care of the baby while we're in the studio, Phil knew he had me. I wasn't going to argue against anything that might get my career back. So I accepted it. Uh, and then she goes on to say that anytime she would bring up getting back into the studio, he would either be like, you got to take

care of the baby. What are you doing? Or he'd flip out on her and be like, I've got other things to do. I've got to call to make. I can't be doing this shit right now.

Yeah. So he's like, gaslighting her back and forth on everything that's going on in her life. It's like, you know, you can't go into the studio because you got to be a mom. But you can't be a mom because we hired an nanny. Why would you be a mom?

You know, like, she just has this profound sense of being basically nothing anymore. From going from a mega superstar on the world stage, touring that you're up in everything

You don't even have an audience with your own child, you know, type shit. That's, um, I mean, that's also got to be getting him off just the exercise of that much power. Like, I can take you from this to this. I don't know, like, direct these talking about that, but it feels like that's got to be

part of it, right? Yes. And it does seem to be like a common situation and it's like that power and like having that power.

And Sophie to bring up something that you mentioned before, it's like with his first wife,

the reason it's, it's like, he has to have control and he has to be in charge until being in charge no longer means anything to him, right?

“And then that's why with his first wife, he wasn't possessive in control.”

And once he had her, he was like, oh, I don't care. I've proved everything I need to prove here. But now with like Ronnie, he continual needs to prove how in charge of her life he is. And to himself to everyone else, and he takes joy from that, you know, but Ronnie's memoir is full of the most hilarious stories you've ever heard, like, uh, so Ronnie is mixed

race. She's black and white and, uh, and Cherokee, I believe. And, and Phil is obviously white Jewish, uh, and Dante is a mixed race baby. So this makes sense for everything. But, uh, shortly after they adopt Dante, Ronnie's mom comes to stay with him and

Phil sends her out to Watts to buy him an Afro wig. Oh, God. Oh, no. Right. No, he doesn't.

Oh, he doesn't. No, he doesn't. No, that's not real. That's not real. That's not real.

That's not real. That's not real.

“In, like, you're probably late, 60s, early, 70s, he's like, over to Watts.”

And if I don't know, that's where he was playing for a wig, for sure. If it's where you get an Afro wig, in listeners, Watts was calmly, the, the, uh, famously the calmest place in Los Angeles, part of the 60s, nothing happened in Watts during this part of the 60s. No, no, no.

Okay.

So she has to go all over Watts, looking for Watts, she finally finds it, and she brings it back

for Phil, and he loves it, and he starts wearing it all the time, dude. Including, oh, awesome, awesome, including to a black church in Watts that he forces them to go to. He's like, we're going to go to this black church in Watts, this person has his own Watts riots.

Wait, wait, wait. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I misinterpreted what you were saying, and now it's even funnier, because I thought you were saying, he forced her to get that for the kid to wear. No.

No. No, this is for Phil to wear. Phil to wear. Yes, Phil to wear. Yeah, Afro.

So Ronnie says she's like kind of bored, but Phil is loving it.

He's, he and I'll, how the new, yeah, he's dancing around, and he's got, and he's wearing

a gun at the, oh my god. Everybody can see he's wearing a gun and being the only white person in like a very black church in Watts, dancing around and clapping and singing hallelujah doing all this, Afro with a piece. Oh my god, I mean, can you, can you, can you even imagine this happening like, he survived

through like the grace of people just being like, oh, that guy is crazy as fuck, there's something wrong with him. Yeah. It's so funny, right? So Ronnie, of course, continues to abuse alcohol because who wouldn't in this situation.

Right. Yeah. I don't even call that abusing. I would just call that. That's stealing.

Dedicating. Yeah. Yeah. So she blacks out while driving her car and she wrecks her, her Camaro. And she doesn't get any trouble, but Phil's, like, all right, well, you got to see

a psychiatrist and which she does right up until the psychiatrist says, also, hey, Phil,

“you should come in because clearly there's some other things going on that are, you know,”

that are causing this stuff, there might be more to, yeah, yeah. And he's like, and he's like, no, I'm doing that. He's like, and you ain't either, you ain't going to a psychiatrist. And so, and he tells her specifically, you're the one with the problems, why would I go? Wow.

Wow. Wow. What a perfectly shitty response though. That is beautiful, Phil. Well, crafted.

Yeah. He tries locking the liquor cabinet, but she just prize it open. Yeah. He eventually, he forces her into rehab, which she actually loves. She's like, she does.

She's like rehab is the shit. Oh, they try to make her go to rehab, and it was great. It helped her a lot. Yeah. And she, because it's like, oh, I get to be away from Phil.

I don't have to be around him anymore. Yeah. So now, anytime she starts this cycle, right, where any time she just gets sick of Phil, she just drinks a shit load and gets her put in rehab, and then she's like, cool, two-week vacation

him again, you know.

“So she doesn't have an alcohol problem as much as she has a Phil Spector problem.”

Yes. Absolutely.

Just a Phil Spector problem.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Speaking of things that will make you go to rehab, I tried to make me go to rehab every time we do an advertisement, because I'm addicted to our advertisements. I should probably go to rehab, but we have to quit her since I'm too sure I saw the state

fair when I was 11. Yeah. Exactly. That's a fair talk. You a lot.

Thank you, Cardi parents. Come back, and we'll learn some things you can't learn at a state fair, unless it's the Texas one.

“But silver 40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.”

From eye-hard podcasts and best case studios.

This is Worshack, murder at City Hall. Could this have happened in City Hall, somebody tell me that. July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons, and in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.

Everybody in the chamber is docked, a shocking public murder. A scream, get down, get down, those are shots, those are shots, get down. A charismatic politician. You know, he just bent the rules all the time, but I still have a weapon. And I could shoot you.

Outside of it with a secret. He alleged he was effective, but flat down. That may have been wonderful, that may have been about six. Listen to Worshack, murder at City Hall on the eye-hard radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the on-purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Khan, the singer songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit, sticks season, and one of the biggest voices in music today. Noah opens up about the pressure that followed his rapid success. His struggles with mental health and body image, and the fear of starting again after such

a defining moment in his career. It's easy to look at somebody and be like, "Your life must be so sick." Man, you have no f*cking clue. Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically or in pain

and in some emotional way in my life to create good music. If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm good." Someone says that I suck, I'm like, "F*ck, I suck!" Getting the talk about this is not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever.

Listen to on-purpose wj-shetty on the eye-hard radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Noah Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is Back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting.

Every episode is a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Lavey, Mavis Staples, Remi Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Olesia Kara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more.

Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin. You even did the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom at that. That's so funny. ♪ Charlie Staples, me, just night, each morning ♪

♪ Say you love me, you know ♪ So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to playing along on the I-Hart Radio app. Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, former Bachelor Star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.

This began a year's long court battle to prove the truth.

“You doctor this particular test twice in selling stress?”

I doctor the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Some like the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg O' Westby and I come around to you. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.

Laura, Scottsdale Police.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at AmeriCorps County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over.

Listen to Love Trap podcast on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back.

“All right, so she's drinking, she's a drunk, she's going to rehab.”

She's a factor, she's addicted to spill specter. Yeah, and she's going to rehab. One night, Phil takes Ronnie down to the basement of their house. Don't like the story. I'd rather eat, don't like this.

Wait, this is starting. I don't love that. I don't love that.

He takes it down to their basement and he shows her a golden glass casket.

And he says, this is where you will be if you ever leave me. Oh, oh, the level of commitment to this intimidation. I cannot begin to stress. He has a golden casket, right? He had to bring it into his house.

Like he presumably left it there for years. Yeah, only if he's not waiting until he knew he needed the big guns to pull out. Like this is this is this is high level mental abuse. Yeah, this this is like what an unlimited budget.

“Like this is why I would never date a millionaire, right?”

A billionaire. Oh, right. Because they can do crazy shit to you. Yeah, like they're going to be able to like pay somebody to just follow you around for an entire year when you when you leave them, you know? Yeah, um, it's dark. It's just for dark.

Protecting that casket, like he's not pissed and she wants to go downstairs and he's like, wait, no, no, no, I got to take care of that. I can't go down there. Yeah, I don't want you to see a Christmas gift. Yeah, something like that.

She's like, I'm just going to go get a jars spaghetti. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. Make your arms get it.

Yes. All right. So she would claim that the doors of the house were always locked and she was

only allowed to leave during their anniversary. Phil kept her shoes so she could never leave the house without his approval. For her 26 birthday, she's 26 years old for toward 26 birthday. Phil takes her to Las Vegas to see Elvis Presley and presumably so they could do karate in the fucking back room. Yeah, I would imagine they're doing karate, maybe showing off the guns they

always carry. Yeah. Uh, so she's stoked because, you know, she, she, she always wanted to meet Elvis and they're a big time. I don't know, whatever. Yeah. And basically filled like a band insert in the crowd. And it's like, I'm going to hang out with Elvis. Go to the hotel room. Such a man. I'll see you later. Such a good night. That didn't make into the new Elvis movie. That's tragic.

Him and Phil's back to just in the back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He did karate. Uh, in 1969, in the midst of the Beatles well documented decline. Side bastard Alan Klein asked Phil to come to London to help assemble the disaster of the let it be recordings. Um, so for people who are the dumbest human beings alive and don't know everything about the Beatles. Sure. Fair enough. The, the, the let it be album was actually recorded

before Abbey Road, right? It was recorded. It didn't know that. Yeah, it was recorded before Abbey Road. But they, it was a mess, right? They like, they were fighting. John is on heroin, hard core.

“Oh, well, of course. Side story. Do you know who got who I heard got John a dick into heroin?”

It was a James Taylor. Oh, okay. I can see that. Yeah. James Taylor. Oh, yeah. Fire and rain is the guy who got him addicted to heroin. Well, because if James Taylor offered me a heroin, I would do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I can see that. Yeah. Literally, if like my brother offered me a heroin, I'd probably do it. So I went there. But certainly James Taylor. Yeah. But yeah. So so they're a mess, right? They're falling apart and

Phil is brought into save these recordings, right? Well, and, and, and there are, I believe there are already done with with Abbey Road having recorded Abbey Road and let it be definitely comes after, you know, like it was, but it was assembled by Phil, essentially. He, he, he flies in literally just for this job. They're like, here's a bunch of tapes just do something with it. And it's why that album is generally, um, is generally like kind of, it's, it's kind of wild, right?

There's like these huge orchestrations, but also like these like slap dash, little like weird, interlude sections and talking and jokes and all that, they just needed to fill out space and it was part of the creativity of the whole thing. Right. Um, Phil hates flying, which, uh, I read a

freaking out on a private plane that they had to turn around and come back like almost immediately after taking off because he's terrified of flying all the time. But he has to fly back and forth. I got to do with, I mean, do you think any of his fears related to, I mean, like the day the music died, right? The famous plane crash that killed Buddy Holly and the big ball. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

“Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very likely. I mean, like, I think there was a lot of musicians that”

died around this time in playing crashes. Oh, yeah. Oh, just writing dies in a plane crash right around this time. You know, like, and Phil feels every one of those deaths. It's, I mean, I think it's also a bit of like a control thing. I think Phil is a control freak in the truth. Right. Term of a control freak that makes total. So I definitely think that that was a bit of what was going on. But I think also to he just just has a mattress like fear of flying. Uh, so he arrives in in London

and he immediately starts specurizing the Beatles recording. He added strings to it. Uh, dance production to McCartney's long and winding road, which if you know now like McCartney hates

that. McCartney released his own version of let it be that was like, de-spectorized basically,

like he took all of his production out and released that individual project is like his own thing because he hated what Phil Spectre did to it. In fact, he was so enraged. He sent a letter to side bastard Allen Klein demanding that the arrangement be minimized. Uh, Sophie, can you show the letter? This is, this is probably the angry as letter that Paul McCartney has ever written. He says, dear sir, this is to Allen Klein. Dear sir, in the future, no one will be allowed to

add her subtract from recording of any of what my songs without my permission. I had considered orchestrating the long and winding road, but I decided against it. Therefore, I wanted altered to these specifications. It gives a list of some stuff. Uh, one is strings and horns, voices all noises to be reduced, vocal and beatle instrumentation to be brought up in volume three is hard to be removed completely at the end of the song. And four is don't ever do it again. Side palm

McCartney. Don't do it again. And this, this, this has to be like an unstoppable force and movable object thing, because like Paul McCartney very rarely would anyone, I imagine at this time it's pretty rare for people to tell Paul McCartney other than other Beatles, other than other Beatles, what to do. And it's a mystery true of Spectre. It does speak very highly of who Phil Spectre is that he managed to get away with all of this. Yeah. That he could do this to the Beatles, arguably

the biggest band, it's 1969, the biggest band in the world. Yeah. Um, this is their last album

to be released, uh, collectively. And, um, uh, and Paul would never work with Phil again, but both

Lenin and Harrison loved him. Lenin and Harrison both loved him. Good. Thought he did wonderful job and that good. Oh, there you go. Yeah. Make sense. He's mad. Paul is so mad, but, uh, and, and a lot of people claim that he ruined the Beatles, right? But let it be sold 1.2 million in the first two days as a single. And it was the Beatles final number one in America earning them a Grammy. So,

“uh, you know, uh, there's certainly, uh, I honestly, I listened to it. I listened to Paul's version”

of the long and winding road versus Phil's, uh, the, maybe it's nostalgia that I just always feel that way, but Phil's just feels more, more correct for what's going on. It feels still very George Martinie. It doesn't feel like they stripped the soul of the original, like, or the mid decade, uh, uh, Beatles albums, like the 6667 stuff. It feels, it feels, it feels real, right? Um, right. So, uh, so I, I, I, I get what Phil was on and I, I can respect that. I think it was still a really

great album. Uh, there's some really cool stuff about it. Um, so they finished work on let it be, and Spectre set the work on another Beatles project. This time, the solo effort of George Harrison. This is when Phil starts actually drinking again. Uh, normally he's the perfectionist in the studio, but George matched his perfectionist attitude and, you know, he's scared he's not going to be able to compete with the other Beatles, right? Like Paul released a record of John and it was overshadowed

him. So he, yeah, makes his first record the record. Like he, I imagine it wasn't worried about

“Ringo, but yeah. Yeah, he has no one. I mentioned John and I mentioned Paul, that's what I said.”

Very clearly mentioned, just John and Paul. No one is worried about all octopus under the sea bullshit. Look, everyone, I figured out how to make a dimmer switch. I don't know why that's my Ringo. Uh, so, so this starts a jekyll and hide personality with him. He would endlessly abuse studio personnel for his own humor. Uh, one night he gets so drunk he falls off his chair and hurts his arm and then he can't go to sessions for like a few days last. Also, who hasn't, right?

don't drunk and fell. I've got he suddenly ill and had to delay podcast recordings with Sophie.

“Of course. For sure. Absolutely. It's awesome. Because we're adults and that's what we're adults. That's right.”

Eventually, he returns to America. He leaves George to finish the album. He kind of is like, uh, you know. And George complains that he's being in, in attentive and uh, but and he doesn't, he doesn't like that Phil is doing this. But he does, uh, regardless, finished his record and all things must pass was released and spent seven weeks at number one and he's the first beatle to chart post break up. Right. Uh, he is, I mean, all things with pass is a bang or a record. It is, it is

top to bottom. It's, it's a no skip album. It's amazing. And it's nothing like the Beatles,

which is the most interesting thing about it is like the fact that he put out a record that was not reminiscent of any of his work really with the Beatles in any way. He was very

“ravishing car influenced at this point in his life. He's into spiritual. He's literally doing”

harry Krishna songs and stuff. You know, like, um, so yeah. For that to be seven weeks at number one, pretty impressive. You know, it's a great deal. Um, in September of the same year, John Lennon returned from America. He was staying in America. He returns from America. And he brought Phil into Abbey Road Studios to record what would become the plastic onoban album. In contrast to Phil's previous work, he listened to John's direction and made a record of sparse arrangements. It perfectly matched

John's words and the tone of lyrics and everything. So in John, Phil found a kind of spirit and

the same for for John, right? John had this belief that torture geniuses, right, are always the

tortured part of that, right? They have, there's something that makes a person a genius and it's usually incredible tragedy. And of course, John had his own mother died. John was a victim of tragedy himself oftentimes in the Beatles. Yeah. He had a hard life as well. And so he kind of thought both sides of this him and Phil kind of hindered spirits, right? Right. Right. Yeah. We're both kind of giant assholes to the women in our lives. This probably helps us bond. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I get you, bro. Yeah. I too am a piece of shit sometime. So Clows Vorman played based on the George Harrison record and the John Lennon record. And he, he said there's a start contrast of tone

between Phil for George Harrison and Phil for John Lennon. You know, interesting. And also,

Mick Brown, who wrote the book, breaking down the wall of sound that I referenced for a lot of this, he mentions that Phil got along with Yoko Ono really well as well. And he relates this a lot to the same thing as the way I Turner gave Phil his space to work when when he was working with Tina. You know, he was like, he was so respected that even the controlling member of their lives was like, yeah, yeah, let Phil do his thing. You know? Yeah. Yeah. That does say a lot. That says a lot a lot.

“You know, like that's that's those people are famously controlling of the others careers, you know?”

So in the meantime, Ronnie is in New York. She thinks her career is over and Phil flies throughout the London and says, hey, actually George wrote a song for you. He wants you to sing it. And so she flies out there and and she gets into it and and unfortunately, it flops again. And she's like, all right, yeah, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. Right. Yeah, John Lennon's album did not flop, but only managed to reach number six in America, number 11 in the UK,

which is a pale comparison to George's success. And with John seeing what he perceived as the weaker writer success over his over his right, he pulled back on releasing music and starts supporting Yoko's career more at the time. They reunite to work on a magic, which we we listen to an exact copy of today. Yeah. And despite it being a legendary piece of work, it wasn't really well received and Phil retreated again into semi retirement and did not record any music for over a

year. On Christmas 1971, Phil surprised Ronnie with a set of five year old twin boys who he had adopted without her knowledge. He went to awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Surprise adoption. It's better than surprise knocking someone up and having to surprise kids. Yeah. I love you. Oh, or is it worse, actually? It's a lot more thought to adopt. See, you've got to find so much paperwork to adopt. It might be worse. It might be worse.

She's coming back. She thinks they're adorable, but she doesn't really want anything to do with them,

She's just like her whole life is just story after story of horrible things like right.

“I could do an entire episode just on Ronnie Spectre and the horrible things that happened to it.”

Yeah. Cool. Phil's behavior. In January of 1972, he's arrested at the Daisy Club in Beverly Hills after a woman called the police to report that a small man in a karate jacket pointed a gun at her. And that's just like our fellow. That's the description. A small man in a karate jacket. That's like the most insulting thing I can possibly imagine being called. I love it. Oh, love it. Police arrived promptly and found Spectre Beverly Hills. You know,

they arrived promptly. Find Spectre with a handgun in his waistband. And he was charged with a

misdemeanor and received a $200 fine. That's a little days of brandishing a weapon

and getting a simple misdemeanor fine. Yeah. I phone it. Just a few months later

“in the middle of the night, Ronnie escaped with the help of her mother. She was forced to escape”

barefoot because Phil didn't let her have shoes. And she had to leave behind her kids and all of her possessions. Wow. But Robert, do you know who won't force you to have been your home in the middle of the night barefoot with nothing to your name? Well, hopefully not the sponsors of this podcast because they can't help but got my home. Yeah. They could give it to take it the way. 10, 10 shots five City Hall building. A silver 40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.

From iHeart Podcasts and best case studios. This is Worshack, murder at City Hall.

Could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that! July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons. And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead. Have everybody in the chambers of dogs, a shocking public murder. A scream, get down, get down. Those are shots, those are shots, get down. A charismatic politician. You know, he just bent the rules

all the time. I still have a weapon. And I could shoot you.

“And an outsider with the secret. He alleged he was effective flat down. That may have”

been not a bit political. That may have been about six. Listen to Worshack, murder at City Hall on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the on-purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Khan. The singer songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit, sticks season. On one of the biggest voices in music today. Noah opens up about the pressure that followed

his rapist success. His struggles with mental health and body image, and the fear of starting again after such a defining moment in his career. It's easy to look at somebody and be like, "Your life must be so sick." Man, you have no f*cking clue. Talking about the mental illness stuff. It used to be the thing that I was ashamed of. I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically or in pain in some emotional way in my life to create good music.

If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm good." Someone says that I suck. I'm like, "F*ck, I suck." Getting the talk about this is not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever. Listen to on-purpose, Vijay Shetty, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Noah Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is Back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together

in an intimate setting. Every episode is a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Lavey, Mavis Staples, Remi Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Olesia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more. Check out my new episode with Josh Grohl. You even did the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I would definitely

the Phantom at that. That's so funny. So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to playing along on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, former Bachelor Star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.

This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctor this particular task twice

“in selling stress. I doctor the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the”

case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Some like the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Olesia and Michael Marancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie

Young. This is LoveTrap. Laura Scott Stelpoise. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces

consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at America Opa County as Laura Owens has been dated on fraud charges. This isn't over until Justice has served in Arizona. Listen to LoveTrap podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. I'm taking control of this whole situation. All right. I love it. So when we last left our hero, his wife Ronnie had escaped into the night with no shoes in

fear for her life. She filed for divorce and surprisingly, they'll walk away completely amicably and gave her everything that she asked for. We're psyched. Okay. Okay. You did. No, he was an absolute asshole

about every single aspect of their divorce. Just days after she fled during a telephone call,

Phil informed her that all her clothes were in a trash can on La Sienna Gabulavard. Ben there. She files for custody of Dante, but not to twins for obvious reasons. And cited the dangerous nature of the mansion and Phil's collection of guns and temper for the reason. At the time, Phil kept numerous guns around the house and had up to five guard dogs, as I mentioned. The mansion was surrounded by tall fence, barbed wire, signs everywhere. He's super paranoid, obviously.

Yeah. So Phil retaliated by claiming that Ronnie was unstable and what did he use as evidence of her instability? Why those frequent trips to rehab this season? Oh my god. And she barely is even covered in guns all the time. So she's clearly not thinking about those kids safety. I've got to be right now when I hit it one to the kids. So the court orders Phil to pay for

Ronnie's temporary lodging and provider was support. He wrote a check for the first month,

but the second month, he had three armed guards deliver $1,250 payment in nickels to her lawyer's office. What? Yeah. To be a dick. Just be a dick. Yes. Sure. Yeah. The record. 25,000. That's 25,000 nickels, 25,000 nickels. And it weighed 275.6 pounds. I did the math. He sucks. Three petty deals. Two of them with shotguns to deliver $1,250 in nickels. Now look, have I been petty before? Have I, for example, been treated badly at a

at a private gym that I went to and mailed them a box that exploded into glitter. Sure. Sure. Allegedly. And I mailed animation when I had a bad experience at a small business

“that I specifically hated the owner. Perhaps. Allegedly. What do I do this?”

Well, maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I might actually do this again. You know, it's like, it sounds pretty funny. Yeah. I just hope I didn't throw anyone that much money. Yeah. But here's the fun. To me, this is the funniest thing, right? Because like, I mean, I didn't do the math on what the coders or pennies situation was. But he chose nickels, right? He could have chosen dyes. He could have chosen pennies. Yeah. He had pennies would have been way

more. I assumed that he was like, okay, well, that's a lot of pennies. Right? And he was like, maybe too much. And they were like, actually, if you do that, we're going to have to have four armed guards. He was like, ah, that's a waste of money. Yeah. At the beginning of August at the behest of our lawyers, Ronnie checked herself into psychiatric care and spent several weeks there. Then on September 14th, our lawyers would called to the Beverly Clarette Crest Hotel

“to deal with her in an intoxicated condition, heavily with the finger quotes here, right?”

Intoxicated condition. She was lit. She said she drank a lot. And she was just screaming in the lobby. Right? Yeah. Oh, okay. A few days later, they're called again when Ronnie nearly killed herself after passing out with a lit cigarette and setting the bed on fire. Oh, my God. She drank a full fifth of vodka by herself. Oh, honey. And then said she was getting a little map. Yeah. Nap with a cigarette. She was unharmed, fortunately. I know for the most part, but she

didn't have to go to the hospital and everything. That's good. That did kill a lot of people back then.

for sure. I know that's part of why they made. They changed how they made both beds and like couches. There's new fabrics they use on all of those because of many people burnt to death, smoking it better on the couch. What do you mean, Robert? You mean that that's all those spontaneous combustion that just stopped recently might have been a manufacturer's issue. The internal mystery.

“What caused the the human combustion? Was it all of the smokeer? Was it smoking? Was it smoking?”

Was it smoking next to cocktails that were just pure liquor? We're just saying. Crazy how that happens. Yeah. So, um, right after this, she tries to fire her lawyers, right? And end her divorce proceedings, right? But in one of the rarest moments of lawyers being amazing people, they refuse to be fired. They say, we don't think that you are making sound decisions. This is not what you want. Our conversations with you have said that this is not what you want. You are

under mental distress right now and we want to make sure that you continue with this with this divorce proceeding because this person is bad for you. And she does and she rehires them or whatever the hell they move on. Um, she reverse course again continues with the doors. It takes another 18 months to finalize the divorce. She received a $25,000 payment in addition to $2,500 a month

under the condition that she never disparaged fill in public. Um, she also would fill with

received control over her master recordings and most of the publishing leverage and the ability to limit Ronnie's access to her own. It's that's fucked. That's fucked. Yeah. I mean, it has been great before, but that's, that's really bad. He takes away her ability to make money, making her right, and then also she has no control so he can do whatever he wants. I kind of robes her too like not just of her money, but of like her future. The things probably, well, just, and also just like

probably some of the stuff she's proud of, like this stuff that she made that was hugely successful and influential. Yeah, no control. Like that also has as a creative that's like a knife, another knife. Yep. She's got a lot of knives in her. Absolutely. Yeah. So he has to send her a check every single month. Uh, and every single month. Oh, she doesn't get custody of the children, and he has to send her a check every month, and every single month. He sends her a check,

and he writes, fuck off on the back. So, so she has to write her name underneath. So it says, fuck off, Ronnie Bennett, every single time she gets a check, this man, this man can give

peruses, yeah, like fucking smallest man in the world. I have never, ever heard of this,

this level of pettiness in a relationship. Super pettiness, super pettiness, but Ronnie's free, you know, and she, she looks back on this, you know, it's like she, uh, she's as she escaped their divorce, and she was happy to, to escape it with her life. Like she was, she was happy to be done. Yeah. Um, so shortly after the divorce, Spectre was brought in again to work with John Lennon. Things had been extremely rough for John Lennon in the years falling the Beatles breakup.

He's fighting the government for his right to stay in America. He's fighting his bandmates.

“He's fighting uh, his wife for money. Like there's everybody is fighting for his money, right?”

Yeah. Um, in one of the strangest situations ever, Yoko sends that John is working towards cheating on her, and rather than losing completely she opted to pawn him off on one of her friends.

Oh, interesting. I know any of this. Yes. So it's basically a sanctioned affair, right?

Like, you're gonna do this anyways. Let's just, may we, you just like be his little fling for a while or whatever? Um, uh, he's, he's living outside of his means, but he convinced the label to give him $10,000 to record an album of standards and he enlists filled to produce. Okay. So he, when he worked with John previously, he's on their turf and he's, and he's got to do their things, right? But now they're in Los Angeles and he's, he's, he's doing his thing, right?

So he brings in his favorite musicians, uh, including the sons of his idle Barney Kessel,

“remember Barney Kessel and his mom and Baristam in front of? Yeah. Yeah. He, he, he brings in his”

kids, right? They come in and play on this record. Um, we're gonna talk about them in a minute. He developed a joy for Amal Knight traits. Robert, you have a big fan of Amal Knight. Like, poppers? Yeah, poppers, poppers. Who doesn't love a good Amal Knight trait every now and again, and again, and again, and again, may, may Pang remembers that he just smelled like old socks all the times. Is it because he's helping him out of socks? No, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

um, he showed up wearing a holster, right, with a gun in it. He showed up in and he danced around

“with his guns off. He, he's 35 at this point. Right. He's like, he's, he's, he's a, he's a grown-ass man.”

He's a grown man. Yeah. Uh, John, he, John would drink, uh, vodka straight from the bottle and, uh, because he's depressed and Phil would drink this wine called Manishavits, which is basically like, yeah, it's like a Jewish ceremony wine, you know, right? You can get it in most grocery

stores. I don't recommend it. It doesn't taste good. Nobody says that it tastes good. I've never

had it. And I was gonna just get a bottle of hat in the episode. But you know what? I'll just drink whiskey instead of play everybody's favorite game instead of expensive, but it's not good. It's great. It tastes like grape juice with alcohol in it, but also the grape juice is bad. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really shitty wine. Um, they'd explode into arguments about the direction of the music and things were often hectic. One night, Elton John comes by and he's hanging out

“for like a little bit and, and he's like, I got to go and he leaves and he tells the guy I brought”

and he's like, what the fuck was going on? They're like, yeah, they're just like that. They're just

and he's like, I'm so glad we left like this sucks. Yeah. Phil would, because there are you know,

the time Phil started dressing in ridiculous outfits. He'd show up dressed like a captain or dressed like a, you know, like a pirate or like crazy like just ran them out fits all the time. He 'd show up dressed like a waiter or something, you know, just look ridiculous. But then, eventually they'd get drunk and then they'd fight. Um, one night Chuck Berry comes by Phil's house to meet with John and John's a big fan of Chuck Berry. Like a lot of the Beatles music came

because of Chuck Berry. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah. And the. And the. Phil is it. They do. Phil is just in the other room playing music so loudly that no one can hear anything. And so Chuck just gets mad and leaves. Yeah. Which by the way, uh, presumably so that he could go watch PP tapes or traffic and underage girl across state lines because he's a. Yeah. Chuck Berry is he was a founder of rock and roll other than, you know, big mama, dorton and, you know, sister resettar. To found rock and roll,

he found a lot of the bad things rock and roll musicians did. Yeah. Yeah. He is one of the reasons why the man act was so successful was because he actually was trafficking a 14 year old girl across state lines for purposes of sex. And he got convicted, which is crazy. Yes. Yes. He sentenced to three years in prison or said crime. He was a black man. So we got convicted as opposed to being a president.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. As things go as things tend to go. So Phil would always play games

with John's mental, you know, fragile mental state and everything. He'd he'd call him or if John would call him when he was supposed to be at the studio and he'd be like, yeah, I'm on my way. And then just wouldn't show up, you know, and John's like wasting money on this studio shit, which by the way, uh, we find out later that Phil has been kind of griffed in the whole the whole thing. He's paying for the sessions himself so that he can maintain control of things and, uh,

so that he can bill John's label. It's a whole thing. We'll get to it in a second. But um, so, uh, one night, John gets blasted, right? He gets shit faced. And him and another guy is bought his bodyguard, take him to Lou Adley's house where John was staying and they tied him to the bed. And John thinks they're going to rape him. He thinks they're going to sexually assault him and he freaks out like he loses. Okay. So it gets a black eye like it's they fight. They physically fight. Like I don't

John was obviously very, very drunk. Like they don't. It's not, it's not insinuated that that was actually that a sexual assault was actually going to happen. But for whatever reason, John thinks that

“that's what's going to happen. And he freaks out and they, they, they tie him to the bed and”

uh, probably not anyway, it's like not think that's happening. Yeah. And then he eventually like gets out or whatever, but they leave and uh, and Phil has to wear makeup on his bruised eye for a couple of days and stuff. The sessions are so crazy that A&M studios evics them from the studio. They're like, Phil's waving a gun around during sessions. Yes. This is too too much shit. Right. Fair enough. Fair enough. Something is going on. We don't think our insurance covers

whatever you're doing. Yes. Right. And so they kick them out and they head over to record plant, which is especially hilarious. If you know the, so record plan is this, uh, famous Hollywood studio. There's a lot of record plants around the world. But the record plan in Hollywood is kind of a famous Hollywood studio, especially currently. It just shut down like a year ago. But prior to that, it was like the party studio. It was the Arizona State University of studios. So the fact

or something like that, which is a very professional fancy studio to go to record plant that's

basically like, yeah, we let people party. This is where at record plant, Phil fires his gun into

the ceiling of the studio. So record plans like, yeah, we'll have you. I'm like first days like,

“what is the context? Is he trying to emphasize a point? Is it using it like a punctuation mark?”

Is it just an accident? So he gets into an argument of some type with Mount Evans, who is a famous, like, kind of fifth beetle situation. He's, he's like their roadie. He's their fixer. He does everything. He's hanging out with John Lennon and he is very trusted by the, huh, right? And, uh, and he gets into an argument with Phil, presumably about, like, hey, man, Gustup doing some dumb shit or whatever, and did you tell him, well, that's John Lennon? Yeah,

something like that. Phil has like a measure of anger, pulls his gun out, and he says accidentally fires his gun into the studio. Which says something, right? Yeah. John turns to him, like, and he's like, "Phil, if you're going to shoot me, shoot me, but don't fuck with me ears." He's like, "I need to go listen." Oh my god, what a great response, honestly. Yeah, that's a pretty bad idea.

“You're going to shoot me shoot me, but like, I need my ears, bro, don't shoot guns beside my head, Dick.”

Yeah, that's pretty cool. I got to give it to him. That's pretty cool. Everybody thinks Phil is just shooting blanks in these guns, right? Nope. But the next day, Mal Evans shows up to John Lennon's house with the bullet from the sillies. Here's the bullet from last night, and John's like, "What, what, what, bullet?" He's like, "The bullet that he fired into the ceiling?" He's like, "He's got bullets in that thing." There's a real gun? Yes, there's a real gun.

So, shortly after that incident, John returns in New York City, and one night he receives a phone call from Phil, claiming that the studio had burnt down and they lost everything. So, John's like, "Whoa, what, what was going on?" He calls the studio, and they're like, "I don't know fire. What are you talking about, man? That's not a fire here." And then, so he's like, "What the fuck is going on?" And then a week later, Phil calls again. This time, ranting about helicopter

surrounding the house. Right? He's like, "Hey, there's helicopter surrounding the house," right? And he says, "But, I don't worry, I got the tapes. I got the tapes, right?" And so, John eventually

discovers basically, "Philip paid for the entire session," which means in the recording world,

if you pay for it, you own the tapes. The tapes are released to the person who pays for them, right? You own all of John Lenin's work if you own those tapes, right? And so, they get a bill from Phil's label for $90,000. And they're like, "What the fuck?" Apparently he's paid for all the sessions, and then he's doing the old classic rebuild it like, like 170% of the cost of whatever it is, type thing, right? Yeah, yeah, that Hollywood shit. Yeah. So, when Bob Mercer of EMI Capital went to

Phil's sunset office to retrieve the tapes, Phil chased him down a flight of stairs with an axe. Yeah! He's back for the school, again. The album wasn't released until 1975, with only five tracks produced by Spectre in another eight John recorded with out him. So, obviously a man. So, I mentioned before, Barney Kessel's two sons, Dan and David, they start hanging out with Phil during the Lenin sessions. And this is the first time

they come to his house, and the first time they come to his house, he greeted them wearing a 38. And he asked him if they like jars. Of course, yes, absolutely. They said yes, of course, because, you know, who doesn't? And he takes him to the backyard in Hollywood, remember, and they spend a few hours shooting at old records. They idolize him. They love this dude. Like, they think he is the epitome of the rock star mentality, right? And to be a fair,

you know, he's like in his 30s, he's shooting guns, he's part of John Lenin, like he is kind of a rock star with all sorts of crimes. He's kind of a rock star, right? Definitely. Yeah. He, he starts treating him like his kids, right? Which is fucked because he has kids, and he is currently locking them in their rooms, and they're under the, they're under the supervision of a governess who doesn't let them do shit. Right. Meanwhile, he take the castles to

Muhammad Ali fights and even took him to Vegas to see Elvis and brought them backstage after the show

“to hang out, which is super fun, because he just didn't take Ronnie backstage, right? Right, right?”

Right. That is why, of course. In their eyes, Phil can do no wrong. They love him, dude. They,

to this day, they always like, hey, Phil is the best, right? You know, he, I mean, he's a legend at

his relationships. At one point, this writer Roy Carr is brought to L.A. from, from London with

“the task of writing a book about him. One night, in between telling fantastical stories like”

Bruce Lee was my bodyguard once, and how he had worked as an undercover agent in Paris. Sure, Spectre announced that he needed to pee, and he gets up and walks out, only to come back wearing no shirt and a revolver in his waistband and playing the accordion. Right. So one that we've learned about him is that no matter what he is or isn't wearing, he will have a gun.

He's got a gun on him. Oh, he's not a gun on him. Oh, he's got a gun on him, and he's always

doing something wild. He's like Frank from always sunny. Yes. Yes. Very much picture him is skinny Frank of very little man with a gun. He's always little man with always. So I started blasting him. Yeah. He's just ready to shoot. So, so, of course, as he couldn't tell what was factor fiction when it came to fill, but he does know that, like, without a doubt, fill has intense loneliness issues. Like, he would get mad anytime car would prepare to leave.

Like, he'd be working all day taking notes, and he'd be okay. All right. Well, it's time to go. And, and he got no, no, no, stay for a little bit longer. Stay space space. They don't leave my mind. So, he believes that Phil is even following him around town. One night, Phil's assistant was sent to pick him up, and they get in the car, and she looks in the river mirror, and she sees Phil, and the castle brothers in a Cadillac with shotguns.

And they just chase them, chase them all over Hollywood, until they escape, right? And then, and then they just, there's no explanation given for why they did this. Like, the next day, they're like, "Fill, why did you guys chase us around a shotguns last year?" And he's just like,

"What are you talking about?" What do you mean? I didn't do that. I didn't do that like me. I always have

a little gun. Another time, Phil picks up car and the castle boys with some mysterious people in the car, and they fill the car with pump shotguns and rifles, and then they go to this Cantonese restaurant where they ate dinner by themselves all roped off in this little section, and then after dinner, they just go back to Phil's house and Phil shot at a tree with a pistol for like an hour, right? Yeah, sure. So he just says, "Fill." He's just, he's just living

the lead a look, a brim with a bullet with him to shoot for an hour. He could, yes, he absolutely did. When car returns to England, Phil tries to give him a pistol, and he's like, "I can't take a pistol through customs." What do you, every industry doesn't just let you take guns there, Phil? So funny. In 1974, Phil is brought in to produce for share. You know, share is in his life, but share is no longer with Sunny Bono now. She's with David Geffen, and David Geffen had

become her manager as well as like her label head as well as her boyfriend as well as like every he's ever shared, right? Let's see, like even have any connection to the music industry or no.

“David Geffen? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, but here's, so here's the thing, Phil hates him”

because he's like, he's kind of a neppo baby in the situation. Like, he doesn't know music, he doesn't, he's not a musician, he didn't come up that way. He came up through like the business side of the industry and he gets lucky. He just starts dating share basically, becomes her manager, becomes a label head, starts getting all these positions of like authority and shit, and Phil hates him. Phil despises him, right? Interesting. And one night, David Geffen tells Phil,

hey, man, maybe you should try this with with share song and Phil punched him in the face and told him to get out of here. You fucking F slur. Okay. Oh, he'll. Share is like, Phil, what are you doing? Chill the fuck out and Phil does, right? And then just go back to work, right? And that's like the type of way Phil is. He'll just haul off and punch somebody in the face in the studio, call him a slur and then get right back to work. You know, all in a day's work.

Yeah, all in a day's work, look, he puts his gun on one gun at a time, the same that you did. Same as all of us. Phil dated after Ronnie left. One of those woman is a neighbor,

“a woman named Debra Robotai. She starts as a assistant then becomes his lover, right?”

She was married when she starts working with him, but Phil's crazy hours and like constantly having to like answer ruins her marriage. And then one night after after their, you know, kind of flirt and office flirtation or whatever Phil walks into a car gives her a kiss and now,

you know, now they're dating her. But he's always mistreating her. He'd be super sweet and

loving and then all of a sudden begins screaming and calling her name. One night during an argument at dinner, he dumps a bowl of noodles on her head. So they go through this fight, like, yeah, he's just a new shit. Yeah, noodles at dinner. And he's just like, yeah, beat me in a huge jet noodles. Yeah. Um, and so she hit noodle in a noodle. So he

and she, you know, forgive him and come back and it just keeps kind of doing this, right? It's this

“like constant, like revolving door of Phil's specter where he does something shitty and then he”

gets super mad and they have a big argument. And then he apologizes the next day or makes no mention of it whatsoever. Like sometimes she'd like, he'd do horrible things and then just the next day, he'd be like, what are you talking about? I didn't do anything like me. Um, yeah, ladies don't take back shitty little men. Yeah. One night, Tempers flared and he grabbed a shotgun and put it to a temple telling her he would kill her if she left. She calmed in by telling

him he's being silly and that he should open the door and let her leave. But as soon as he does

calm down, she bolts out of there, right? But she does say, she never thought Phil would actually

kill her, but she didn't think he might buy accident. Spoiler. Okay. Yeah. They much better. Yeah. In November of 1975, a parking attendant claimed that Phil pulled a gun on him and told him to

“get the fuck away from me before driving away. He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor brandishing a firearm”

and two years of probation provided he not own any more firearms. Robert, can you guess who kept owning firearms? I'm gonna guess it's Phil Spectre. And I wouldn't want to remind everybody we talk about him carrying a gun everywhere. In this period of time, there weren't really concealed carry laws in most places. Like there were some ways if you were like a bodyguard for there were ways people could legally carry concealed guns and cities and stuff, but it wasn't like

it is today. Yeah. Point is that Phil was committing a felony, basically every time he walked

out the door. Yes. From this day on he is absolutely committing a felony because he's not supposed to be carrying any more guns. He's not supposed to have any guns. Yeah. So Phil Spectre then in the mid 1970s he starts working with Leonard Cohen. Right. And this is crazy for everybody in the book. Right. This is like what's the Jesse Wells, the little folk kid that sings in the field. This is like him working with Max Martin. Right. It's like it's you know it's like what

why would he be with like a pop producer? There's doesn't make any sense. Yeah. So everybody's like already thinks it's kind of strange, right. But but Spectre things like, hey, maybe this will be like a really crazy, inspired thing. So they make the 1977 album Death of a Ladies Man. The sessions quickly deteriorated into chaos fueled by Spectre's alcohol abuse, erratic behavior and obsession with dominance inside the studio. Cohen later describes Spectre as volatile and

deeply intimidating, recounting an incident in which Spectre allegedly pressed a loaded gun against Cohen's head during a recording session and declared Leonard, I love you. Cohen responded, I hope you do. So all these rock stars have the coolest responses to Phil Spectre putting a gun

“in their hands. Really funny. Yeah. And honestly, of all of the rock stars I expected to be cool with a”

pistol pointed at their fucking soul. Leonard Cohen is going to be top of the list. Yeah. Yeah. In another incident, Spectre pulled a gun on the violin player, Bobby Bruce, which by the way, the violin player, like, yeah, I pulled a gun on the gun. Yeah, I was, I was pulling a gun on a daycare teacher, man. Like, you're like the most innocent person you can find. It's like there's extra bad that you're, this guy went to school, man. It's like a gang enhancement thing on your

sentence saying, where, you pulled a gun on a violinist. That's an extra five years. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Um, so Spectre took control of the final mixes and didn't even allow Leonard Cohen to hear them. He didn't allow them to be present. He, uh, he layers all of his sounds into it, and, um, over Cohen stripped down songwriting, which is what he is known for. Um, and, and they made a record that Cohen doesn't even stand on himself. He doesn't think that that it's very good.

Uh, but Cohen said of this, uh, of his time with Phil, quote, "In that state, he found himself, which was post-wagnarian." I would say pit Larry. The atmosphere was one of guns. I mean, that's really what was going on for guns. The music was subsidiary and enterprise. People were armed to the teeth, and everybody was drunk or intoxicated on other items. So you were slipping over bullets and biting into revolvers in your hamburger. There were guns everywhere.

Right. And that's one of those things where I have to assume that's like a joke for flavor, but also, oh my God, someone hit a hamburger. Somebody was like, "Hey, hey, hey,

Oh, cool. Thanks, man. What? What is going on here? When it was released in 1978, it was critically panned. Everybody hated it. Spector claimed, and this is one thing I love about Phil Spector is any time you shit talk Phil Spector, he will shit talk back and say, like, yeah, I got, I got hate mail from all 80 or fans. It's just so, so disrespectful. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you guys really love it all, eight of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So while he's cultivating this

brilliant and eccentric producer, his family home is his horrible, he treats his kids horrible, he, oh, real quick, when I was mentioning the the Barney Castle kids, Dan and Dan and David, how well did you get the sense that they were? You know, they're running and out. They're driving around shooting shotguns out in Cadillac,

“they're 20, maybe? Yeah, late teens early, 20s. 11 and 13. Oh, no. Why is he hanging out with my children?”

When I was reading this, I was like, this is wild, man. Like, this is crazy. Like, he's hanging out with these like teenagers. I got them and like, same thing, like, 17, 18, something like that. Maybe even early 20s. The way they're referencing the things that they're doing, the driver on shoot guns, they're going, they're hanging out together, right? Yeah. No, I looked it up and his kids were born in like, in like the late 60s. They were like 11 and 12 years.

So that's so crazy. Um, meanwhile, he's reading his own kids horribly. Um, they have the, the

governess is always on them. They don't, they're not allowed to do anything. Uh, and he's very

rarely involved in any actual parenting except for when he is forcing them to simulate sexual acts on women so that they learn how to be men. Uh, hey, yeah, one of those kinds, huh? Yeah, he's doing the classic like no get over there and do, it brings a girl home from the strip or whatever and it's like lay down and like takes control of the whole thing and like is making them simulate. They all report having gone through this. It is that I wonder,

is that more out of like a pat, hit him wanting power, him getting off on it or just him being such a narcissist that like, if my kids are bad at sex, it reflects badly on me. So I'm going to make God damn sure they know what they're doing. You know, uh, very fairly his kids kind of stayed out of the, the line. Sure. Yeah. And they don't talk about a lot of this stuff and I did see you interviews with them like they resurface in later years and one of them tries to write like a

“book, I think, but it never gets off the ground. But it basically, whenever like the dirt comes out,”

it's, he's horrible. Do that me treat them the same way as he treated Ronnie's threatening them all the time. He's making them do crazy stuff. Um, yeah. They, they all develop lifelong issues with trust, identity and emotional stability. Like, uh, it's just, it's not, there's no guidance. It's all, it's all performance and it's all possession. Right. Right. Um, when John Lennon was murdered in cold blood in front of the Dakota building in New York City on December 8, 1980, Phil was once again

thrown into a world of depression. Uh, but this time he took it as a sign. He always said that John

moved to too, too easy. John was too, too careless with how he acted and it would be his downfall one day. And this just reaffirms it for him. Like, he's going to get killed. Uh, if he doesn't travel with bodyguards and guns and all that stuff. So, right. Um, he, by the 1980s, he starts with drawing from public life. He, he moves out of his Hollywood mansion and bought a house in the suburb of Alhambra. He dubbed the Pyrenees Castle. Okay. It's, it's, it's a huge French style mansion. It's

enormous. Like, it's out in Alhambra. You know, it's, it's out of the city of Los Angeles. Uh, he, he, you know, as was his style, he surrounds himself with guard dogs and armed guards and fills the house with guns. Uh, guns that he's not allowed to have. The legal guns, sure. Um, so for a brief period, specter attempted sobriety and acquaintance described him as calmer and more reflective.

“The stability, though, is temporary. He, every time he relapses, he gets crazy again. Uh, and I think”

a large part of this stability was due to his relationship with Janice Savala. Uh, Bill first met

her in the 60s when she was a teenager and eventually hired her to work for his label. After his split with Ronnie, he would date her on and off again for the next like 15, 20 years. And eventually he would give birth, she would, she would give birth to two twins, Nicole and Philip Jr. And contrary to his relationships with his other kids who are now adults at this point, uh, filtrated them

time with him that, uh, he was always around for his kids. Um, but in 1991, uh, this is now well

“removed from his music career in the in the late 50s, early 60s and into the 70s, uh, Philip Jr.”

dies from leukemia and Phil, Phil goes back into deep depression and insanity. Yeah. Well, of course, Nicole remains devoted to her father throughout the rest of her life, always claiming that he was

her hero. He never raised her voice to her. She says he was amazing. Uh, yeah, Phil rarely grants any

interviews. He remains a reclus rarely leaving the house and never without a bodyguard. He hired how blame who's the drummer from the wrecking crew that he had employed. He hired his daughter to, um, be his day-to-day, you know, manager or whatever. Yeah. And was generally pretty kind to her, uh, and everything set for Phil to just ride off into the sunset and be forgotten is, that really doesn't help things, right? Until Nick Brown shows up in his life. Nick Brown is the author

of the book that I was describing that I got, uh, primary source from all of this. Nick Brown's book is one of the most, uh, a thord of, you know, biographies on, on, on, on Phil Spectre. It is, it is

brilliant. It, it has everything. It's a very good book. I highly recommend he's the primary source of

my research. Uh, and he's probably one of the besides me, probably one of the most knowledgeable people on Phil Spectre in the world. Um, and he managed to get an interview with Spectre in December of 2002. You recorded the entire interview on tapes and they painted a picture of a deeply troubled and eccentric man who was likely suffering from mental illness. His article was titled "The Mad Genius of Phil Spectre." And question whether the madness was part of the genius or just

something that had gone unchecked because of his genius? It was a deeply intelligent and honest look at Phil's life, which angered Phil. Uh, he broke what many said was a decade of sobriety and began drinking and enacting a radically began. On February 2, 2003, just a week, two weeks after the article came out, Phil Spectre began his evening at Dan Tan as a longstanding Hollywood restaurant and bar, known for attracting entertainment industry regulars. He took a high school

friend out for dinner and began drinking heavily before taking a home and then returning to Dan Tan as it's starting to drink with his waitress from the night. Oh boy, he was heavily intoxicated by the time he left for the house of blues in how when you when you leave with your friend and then come back to keep drinking with the waitress. That's, that implies a level of drunk that is, yeah. But if you're gonna do it, it's not Dan. Yeah, it's Dan. Yeah, it's Dan. Yeah, it's Dan. Yeah, it's the troubadour for a little bit. Yeah, it's a good night. Yeah, it's a good night. So, uh,

it was then that he would begin his fateful interaction with the hostess of the foundation room in the House of Blues, Lana Clarkson. And this is the end of this episode. Oh boy. We were about to get into

“one of the most storied and important nights in musical history. Uh, but for now, we are gonna plug”

our plug-ables, which uh, I have a podcast. It's about music stuff. It's the most poorly produced podcast in the entire world. We need a Sophie so bad. Like we would crush with a Sophie, but we are incapable of doing things ourselves. So we just forget to do it. But I do have a podcast is called that sounds about right. I have a recording course that teaches you the principles recording. And I have

a label, and by the time this song comes out, our very first artist on the label will release her single.

So please check that shit out. Her name is Violet Lux. The link will be in my bio, greasy will on Instagram. It'll be all over the place. But I am a rebel of the music industry and I need your support. So love to board them and care for me. And also you are on a sorts of the internet as I write. Okay. And, uh, and you also sell merch at places. And we're both Googleable.

“Just be an adult. Yeah. And use Google, man. Get those. Do you know what I think is interesting?”

Everybody keeps discussing about how, uh, you know, chat GPT uses like a tablespoon or a teaspoon of water every time you, you said, nobody is mentioning that Google is automatically using AI to search your answers. And Googling now is also using that same amount of water. Let's be mad about everything. Yeah. You've been minus AI with your Google searches. And it'll cut that part of it out. I don't know that actually releases the energy usage, but at least you don't have to see the summary.

It's still looking to all your information. It's so long. Yeah. And it knows everything you're doing. So that's why I stay on the real internet. That's right. That's right. That's right. I still use NetScape Navigator. It does not work well. That's what I'm relying on. It's my technology being too outdated to spy on me. Right. This is the secret. Old Mozilla Firefly. This is the end of

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