Part Two: H.L. Hunt: The First Elon Musk

- Coulza, media.

“Oh, welcome back to Behind the Bastards,”

a podcast about the worst people in all of history.

And this week, we are about to start part two of our episodes on the former richest man in the world, H.L. Hunt. And when we left him off, his dad and his beloved older brother had just died, he had been saved by a magical prostitute

after proving supernaturally good at sex. And he's in Arkansas, starting a farm. He used in the money he'd inherited and the money he'd taken from fleecing all of his friends at poker. He is going to try to make something of himself.

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- Listen to "Kingdom of Frog," on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. (clicking) - So, by the start of 1912, our boy Harold's in Lafayette Hunt

had opened his very own cotton plantation. Again, this is probably inspired by the fact that his father had kind of talked endlessly about how beautiful the South was and how great cotton farming was.

Unfortunately, he's going to learn a lesson, which is that cotton farming sucks ass. And it's really hard to like get rich doing unless you own a bunch of people who can make work for you for free.

- Yeah, right. (laughing) - And by our partner history, it's obviously that list and very clearly there. - Yeah, yes, yes. When you have to like do your own work

and pay people to help you, sucks way harder, way harder,

“and he's gonna learn that over the next few years, right?”

He's also gonna learn that the cotton market itself is incredibly volatile, right? And so, from year to year, your harvest might not be worth what you put into make it and also like bad weather can fuck you.

If you don't have enough of a nest egg to survive it, right? It's just a very hard lifestyle. And this is where the fact that he starts farming and then immediately learns, oh shit, it's really hard to make money cotton farming.

This is going to show evidence of one of his most valuable traits, right? Which is that he is not dissuaded by failure. A couple of times in his life, he's gonna lose everything like three different times.

He loses everything and makes it back to ultimately get crazy rich. And if I were writing a LinkedIn post to appeal to a bunch of wanna be founders and CEO Bootlickers, I didn't there, right?

- Right.

Bankrupted himself three times and he never let it,

never let it convince him to stop, he never back down, he just right back on the horse and made the money up again, you know? - So it'd be present. - Yeah, right, right.

It is true that like confidence in the face of failure

“is important, you're certainly not gonna make it”

as an entrepreneur unless you can't handle some failure. But it's a separate characteristic of hunts. That's going to contribute a lot more to his future success than the fact

The thing that actually keeps him going

“through all these failures and particularly”

through the failure of his cotton business is that he also owns a casino, right? - Oh, that's not what he wanted to do with it. - Then they added to it, I mean, casino's putting it a little far.

It's not like a full-on Vegas casino, obviously those don't exist yet, but he owns a gambling den, right? An article that Anita Davis wrote for EBSCO notes that hunt opens a gambling parlour,

right alongside his cotton plantation.

He starts them both basically at the same time

and while the plantation doesn't really work out financially, the gambling den is a good investment, right? - It's like, you know what slavery does suck. - Let's get the gambling gambling though. - Enough in problematic about that, baby.

- Put it all on red. - So one constant of hunterly life is that when he suffers a reverse and loses all of his money, he's able to, it's weird,

because before I learned this, I would just be like, okay, but he lost all of his money, how does he a year later have like $8,000 to invest in this new business?

Well, it's because he keeps gambling. And whenever he runs out of money, he just gambles until he makes more money because he's like, it's a superpower for him. Like he just, as far as I can tell,

anytime the man sits down in a table, he walks away with money, right? - Discuss.

“- And if you have that, it's like fucking Lieutenant Commander data, right?”

Like he's just going to win when he sits down to play cards. So every time he goes bankrupt, he gets his money back 'cause he's like a gambling freak, right? In 1914, he marries light a bunker

and the newlyweds get to work

having the first of what will ultimately be six children.

Their first child is a girl, Margaret. They have her in 1915 and two years later, they have their first boy, who he names Haroldsen, Lafayette Hunt. Technically he's the third, right?

- Great. - That light a calls him Hassie. She also calls her husband Hassie, so it's kind of confusing in the book at this point, 'cause you'll hear the,

to sell will refer to both of them as Hassie. I'm only going to call his son Hassie. When I say Hassie, I'm talking about our Harold Hunt, the future richest man, the world's kid. Now he is going to cheat constantly on his wife.

He is cheating on Laida as early as 1917, probably earlier than that, but in the East by that point, and he is not subtle about it. So Laida has to deal with hearing endlessly about like, "Oh, your husband, sure, as an eye for the ladies, huh?"

- Ew. - Oh, but she does not like. That does not make her feel good. His tell is like the way that she can tell, he's cheating on her, is he'll point out a lady in town

to be like, "You know, she's a really good person." And that means light is like, okay, so he's fucking her. Or he's gonna try to fuck her, right? Sometimes it just beads that he's fucking fuck her. - Fuck it, fuck her, fuck her.

- Right, right, right. He's like, really signs through, you know? - What a great personality. She's got, we just casually bring in that up to your wife. And yeah, it's one of those things where like,

she's never okay with it.

She kind of, I think, accepts it, just because the world is the way it is.

“She doesn't have any, there's nothing she can do about it, right?”

But it makes her sad. And also his kids can tell that he's cheating on their mom, and they don't like it, like his first two kids, especially, are going to really hate him for the fact that he makes, he makes their mother miserable.

He treats her so badly. I really, I cannot exaggerate what a bad husband he is. Hunt suffers ups and downs over the first three years he spends farming, but World War One finally does his cotton plantation in.

The cotton market collapses kind of not long after the outbreak of war. And then in 1917, his farm gets flooded out and just kind of the mix of these two factors together, he can't keep it going anymore.

He has to give up. Somehow, he goes from this from his, you know, going bankrupt in his farm failing in 1917 to investing in his first oil well in 1921. And there's a little bit of mystery

as to how he gets his first oil well. Here's how that pro oil and gas industry website Oklahoma Minerals describes this part of his career. So this is like the, this is like the, this is the approved propaganda line

that Hunt wanted people to believe. With a borrowed $50, he began training oil leases employing a strategy of buying and selling that almost simultaneously to profit without significant capital investment.

This approach allowed him to amass considerable wealth in a short period, right? So basically, he's just doing the kind of trading people to want computers now with his super smart brain and he doesn't need much money.

It's just a borrowed $50, you know, he's able to turn that gradually into enough of a fortune to start buying his own oil fields. That's not quite accurate. That is like it accurately describes

one of his strategies, which is that once he gets going after he has this first successful oil field,

and he is doing this thing where he's like doing it in such a way that he doesn't have to actually put much money down, right? Because he's just kind of switching shuffling assets around a little bit of like a show game type deal.

But this does leave out something important

about how he got his first oil well.

And to describe that, I'm gonna go back to his FBI report from the FBI quote, he was reportedly a professional gambler who won an oil lease in a card game and is alleged to have operated prostitution activities in Arkansas.

So this is something you'll find. First off, it's not just a gambling den. He's also a pimple, right?

“That's especially I think that he gets more into that”

as the farm fails, he's like, well, crime will make money for me. And he uses the proceeds of both gambling and prostitution in order to make the money that he invest in oil fields and it's very possible.

We don't know entirely if it's that he literally won his first oil field in a card game. That was a rumor and it seems very possible. But if he didn't win his first oil field in a card game, then he bought it with the proceeds from crime, right?

And I think it's probably true. He probably won his first oil field in a card game and then invested in other leases and got into the trading leases game with money he made from crime, right? I think it's probably a mix of those.

But this guy has to become a criminal to get rich, right? That's not emphasized enough in the aggeographies of him. But he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a pimple, you know? So he's gonna do all of this and then end up becoming like a far-right super, right?

Super, right, way, way, yeah, the hypocrisy. He's not a religious right guy initially. Yeah, he's very much a hypocrisy thing. But like all these guys, right? They're all a hypocrisy.

Yeah, the tits in the fucking, anyone whose whole thing is like attacking and wanting to like harm people using the state

for violations of a moral code is always in violation

of the moral code that they are trying to push on other people, one way or the other. When you dig enough, you find it out, right? That's just as far as I'm convinced a pretty universal truth with these kinds of assholes.

I found an article from the nation from 1964, the author of that article claims, the explanation that he like gambled to get his first oil field got into print for the first time in 1950 in a British newspaper, but it has been repeated many times

since hunt denies at all.

“And I don't know what the truth is here.”

Whatever the truth, hunt is gonna continue operating, gambling establishments for the next couple of decades. He makes a fortune on the Arkansas oil boom and has said to have been worth $600,000 by the time he's 25, which, you know, by the standards,

like if you turn that in a modern money, he's a multimillionaire pretty much by the time he's in his mid 20s. Now, he's gonna lose all of that money, not long after this bill make even more back, right?

He's not what you'd call a good father at any point in time, especially in this period. - I can imagine on that sheeting. - Yeah. - All the cheating, he gambles constantly.

Instead, he doesn't like spend time raising his kids, like when he has free time, when he's not working on the farm, he's gambling, right? And then when he eventually he's gambling or he's speculating on oil, oil field leases, right?

But he never just has downtime with the kids.

He's always gambling, right? During the early years before he leaves Arkansas to pursue oil fields in Louisiana and then Texas, his kids tell regular stories of him just being gone all the time and like mom being to find some to watch them

“when she had to do something 'cause he's playing poker, right?”

And she hates him gambling. She thinks that him gambling is the root of all of their problems. Now, to be fair, she's not right, like she blames him gambling on them going bankrupt, like two or three times.

And he goes bankrupt because of the legitimate businesses. Like first because of his farm. And then I think like a couple of times, it's he's not quite bankrupt, but he loses a lot of money on like oil speculation.

Gambling is a really reliable way for them to make money. Or at least I should say, the card gambling is not what is bad for their finances. His gambling on oil speculation fucks them over a couple of times, right?

But his ego is fed by the gambling. And that's the thing, too, is like that makes some reinforcements. He's the most special and what he's to feel like, yeah, I can go out and sleep with whoever I want to do whatever 'cause I can just-- - Exactly.

Boom. - The rules don't apply. - Yeah. - Pocket saying. - Yeah.

So he takes all of his money. There's a couple of occasions where he'll just like take all of the money and like leave his wife with the kids nearly destitute for like a year. And just go down to another state to speculate on oil fields.

So the kids don't like, this is a scary time for the kids. They don't know if he's ever coming back. And either does she, right? And he doesn't like, I don't think he makes it clear that he's coming back.

I think he's like, I'm gonna go see what if I can make a fortune.

and leave you guys destitute, well, that's how it goes, you know?

“- I've been doing this 12 years old guys, don't worry about money.”

- But the time he's worth 600 grand at 25, he could have like retired and put all of that into, you know, a couple of safe investments or just, you know, like the fucking bonds or whatever. And lived and supported his family comfortably

for the rest of their lives and like been a father. He chooses to then gamble all of that money again and leave his family. He does not need to. He has a point where he's like,

you could choose to be a father and raise your kids and you would all be wealthy for the rest of your lives. And he takes all of that money and puts it all on black and loses it and is gone for like another year or so to make it back, right?

- Right. - So, this is not good for his family. - And I'm sure he and the back of his money is like, listen, I'm not bothering you guys. I'm not harassing you about how much breast milk you guys are getting. So why should you theme upset?

- Yeah. - I'm giving you a little bit of mom time. - It's pretty once they're dad around, it sucks. - Dads are terrible. - I do a favor. And yeah, his wife blames all of this again on like the poker, but he is,

she is right that like his gambling is what's destroying the family. It's just his gambling on oil wells is what's destroying the family.

'Cause he, again, they go bankrupt a second time

in the 20s because of all this. - Per the book Kingdom, he gave no thought in the world the security for his family, right? That is accurate and that's also how his wife and his first couple of kids see him, right?

He is, he does not give a fuck about us. He is willing to gamble all like our happiness and our survival entirely because it thrills him. When his oldest son Hassie turns eight, it's become apparent that he is inherited his father's

and to let Tassie is incredibly bright. Unfortunately, he's also the one who's most hurt by his father's complete neglect. To scene rights, Hassie felt personally rejected by the strange man who entered his life only now

and then without warning. This man had named him after himself. Had given him his looks and quick intelligence, then apparently decided his son was not quite up to snuff, right? So that's very much how Hassie sees

what his dad is doing as like, he named me after himself. He clearly wanted me to be his heir and then I must have failed him because he wants nothing to do with me.

That's so sad. - It's like he's just repeating the exact same cycles of harm and like psychologically it's interesting but this is like a human being like you're a dick. Stop being a dick.

- Yeah, don't stop, don't do that to your kids. Again, if you, I kind of think if you wind up getting lucky enough

that you have like a wind fall that allows you to never work again

and support your kids forever, you can never responsibility to like be a really involved parent at that point and maybe stop gambling incessantly. You know, you could start a business and have some small investments

“but that's the point at which you should make your family a priority”

again. You've succeeded, you know, you don't need to keep doing this. - Yeah, they choose a struggle. Like either be broke in present or be rich and nice. Like you can't be both mean and then not present

and then always messing with like you pick a big struggle. - In 1925, he abandoned his family yet again to speculate on oil fields and Florida while he's now, and I want to specify that's Florida, the state not flow right out of the musical sensation.

Always, there's confusion for we talk about those. - It's important to get these things right. - A lot of people know flow right up but don't know that there's a state that's named after him. I just want to make that clear.

So while he's down in Florida, he meets a waitress, Franny Atai, who helps him find a plot of land to gamble on near Tampa. It's like he thinks there might be oil and I think it winds up being, there winds up being oil there.

But he spends months down in Tampa, searching for more deals, working on that deal,

“and hanging out a lot with Franny Atai, with this waitress, right?”

She's a wannabe musician, she's like a singer, and so he gets really into writing musicals. He convinces himself that he's a great writer, and in fact that like, oh, all these other writers, all these professional writers are idiots.

Like I bet because I'm so smart, I could be the best playwright ever, if I just devoted some time to it. So he like becomes convinced he's going to be the biggest thing on Broadway, he goes to a show on Broadway once

around this period of time, and he's like, I'm gonna make the best musical that's ever been made. - Has he ever been to New York? - He's been once, yeah, he's been once. He sees a show on Broadway.

That's what convinces him. He's gonna be the greatest playwright of all time. And so for a while he gets really into that, and he writes a bunch of songs that sounded terrible, and they're primarily songs for Frania, right,

He may raise her on Armistice Day, 1925.

- Now, but you may note, he never divorced his first wife.

- Mm! - Nordid, he break up with her. Nordid, he tell her that he was done. Frania, by the way, does not know she's that he's cheating. She has no idea he has another wife.

He does not tell her he has a wife and multiple children. He's lying to her, too. She's not, does not bear any responsibility here. She thinks she's met a guy, and he fallen in love with him. And he marries her, and they start having kids together.

He buys her a house, and he just starts raising a second secret family for it. - Oh, that's great. - So Janine will ultimately have four children. (both laugh)

- Jamaican? - I can say that, I've heard you say that.

“I was like, like, do you like a lot of people do that?”

- No, but it's just like one family, one family, one neglected family's not enough. - Let's have two, two, I can't really double down on my family and neglect. Look, two neglected families makes a non-neglected family.

That's the way it works. - Right. - You can neglect enough families. It loops around to you being a caring father. - Just like a numbers game.

It's like his gambling. - All in numbers game. - All in numbers. - Someone's gonna have to like me. - Right, right.

I'm gonna eventually find a family. I actually wanna be there for, you know? - Exactly, it's just like gambling. Just keep getting new cards. Keep dealing.

- Wait, so just declare if I have many children

does he have what the first wife?

- Ultimately, he's gonna have like 15. He has six, I think, the first wife and four with Franny. Ultimately, over the course of his life, he has like 15 kids.

- Too many. - Ew! - And again, this is big of me. He's big and misleameryed now. This is a crime.

You're not allowed to do this. In 1930, 'cause he also lied to the government, right? About not being previously married. In 1930, he takes his money and he moves to East Texas,

where he meets a fellow named CM Joyner. So now he is abandoned both of his families. He meets a man named CM Joyner, who's another oil speculator. Sorry, not a speculator.

Joyner is one of these guys. I forget the term for it, but he's like, he's like a prospector for oil wells, right? So, Joyner identifies some land that's like, I think there's oil on this land.

This is like, and I think a lot of it, right? And this well's name is number one Daisy Bradford. Joyner is like a legend in the oil well prospecting business. This is a big deal. Guys like this who are like,

really skilled at the geology and stuff to like find. Well, yeah, 'cause this is the whole oil boom, relies on guys like this going out. And 'cause they don't have a lot of the technology we have today.

So they're kind of looking at like geology and whatnot.

“And like, where do I think there's going to be oil?”

Because it costs a lot of money to like drill to prove that there's oil in the oil. - Well, maybe drill and a priority, right? - So the guys who are best at identifying places that they think are worth drilling

and have the highest success rate are worth a lot of money. And Joyner's one of the best of these guys. And he picks out this space that becomes the oil well number one Daisy Bradford. Hunt buys the rights to this oil well,

'cause that's how guys like Joyner make it. They're not running the wells themselves. They find it, and then they like buy a bunch of acreage that they think is a good place for an oil well and then try to find someone else to buy it

and actually like prove they like make the well, right? That's kind of how the business works. I'm Yada Yadaying a lot. But Hunt buys the rights to this well and he leases 4,000 surrounding acres from CM Joyner.

So he doesn't own this land.

He's like leasing it and basically buying the rights

to exploit the well. So he and Joyner and business together initially. This proves to be a really wise move because number one Daisy Bradford comes the largest producing oil field on planet earth.

“For years, this is the number one oil field on the planet, right?”

That is going to make a lot of money. Now he's going to be so annoying, he's going to be so annoying. He's going to get, oh, this is going to really allow him to be a lot more of a piece of shit. And we'll talk about that.

But you know who else is a piece of shit? Nope, I love our sponsors. Here they are. Killing me. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy.

Not quite on humor me with Robert Smigle and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffian to Bob Oden, Kurt, to David Letterman. Help make you funnier this week, my guest. SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Sidel,

help an Occupella band with their between songs banter. There's no more singer in the group. - The worst? - Yeah, me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard?

You only got in because your parents made a huge donation. (laughing) - The yard hurts, right? - The yard hurts, right? - That's the name. - The yard hurts. - The yard hurts, yeah.

- Do you have suggestions? - We're open. - Since you guys are middle ages, one direction. (laughing)

On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. ♪ You and me ♪

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- And we're back, Sophie. Sophie didn't notice that, so it's fine. - We're good, we're happy. - Everything's fine. - I am unhappy. - I am unhappy.

- Sophie's happy. She just says that when she's happy. She loves saying I'm unhappy to me and I'm happy. She's just so beautiful you can't tell, but she's unhappy.

- Classic, Sophie. So that piece from the nation that I've been quoting, from outline some of the weirdness around this oil deal for what's gonna become the biggest oil field in the world, number one, Daisy Bradford.

Quote, as a matter of mysterious fact, he hunt wound up with most of the land, joiners started with. Nobody has ever figured out how he did it. Hunt says it was simple.

He paid $1 million, but joiner died with little money.

And the almost uncountable riches hunt is taken from Joyner's old land has turned some Texas oil men's sour on him. So basically, people are pretty sure hunt did something to screw Joyner out of a lot of money

and like kind of ruin him, but we don't know that that happened. Joyner might have just squandered it, right? Some of those oil men might have had sour grapes.

“That said, I think there's a pretty good chance”

hunt fucks this guy, like he does not have it. - That's everything else. - Great with this business partner, yeah, exactly. If bugs everything else, that said, all these other oil guys probably do have sour grapes

because hunt is not just a good oil man. He is the best oil man of like the first big oil boom. He is the best at this by a huge margin. He starts making money hand over fist, not long after this point. And this is the end of his boom and bust cycles.

He will never be poor again.

He will never be out of money again. This well makes so much money that he's able to buy up more oil wells. He eventually owns hundreds of oil wells. I'm sorry, he wasn't 500, I forget the exact number,

but he owns so many fucking oil wells. And so many that he accumulates and almost impossible seeming percentage of the U.S. oil market. He lives in Tyler, Texas, during this period,

where he was noted by others. He's like, this is when he's starting to really get rich as he's a loner, right? He doesn't like to the oil well guys, the guys who are like working on these wildcat rigs

and stuff like socialize, like the party, like to go out and drink.

or any of his subordinates. He doesn't like to know them. He likes to work. He spends his free time doing extra work in his office indoors, not outside.

He prefers making deals to doing any labor on any of the claims that he owns. The son of one of his business partners

at the time recalled, "Mr. Hunt never forgot anything."

Maps, statistics, least data he's never forgot. So he's got this, he's got this like a deaddock memory. I think it's the term for it, right? We're just, he just doesn't forget things. Hunt has had to abandon his family at least twice

to get to this point, but by now he has finally made it. And as the 1930s turned into the 1940s, he is making money hand over fist. Now the case made in that article in the nation, which is the best explanation I've seen anyone give

as for why Hunt succeeds so far hard. Goes like this, he never stops gambling.

“And that's what works for him, ultimately.”

His whole driving intellectual justification for his business practices is the law of averages. He thinks about being an oil speculator the same way he thought about playing poker. As Hunt himself said, "An element of luck is important

when you first get started in the business. If you don't get a well-fast, you can't accumulate the capital to start operating on a large enough scale. But after you start rolling,

what you mainly need is a thorough knowledge of the laws of chance. A wild catar can expect to bring in one well for every 30 tries. And only one man in 30 will do that

if you don't have faith in the law of averages. You'll probably get discouraged and quit. In my wild catting days, I've drilled 100 dry wells. One after the other, then when prospects look most pessimistic, the law of averages would go to work

for me just as I figured it would. Now that article goes on to note after Hunt's quote, the boldness of that statement can be understood only one one realizes that a quarter of a million dollars is not an unusual cost for wild catting a single well.

So when he says he'd have a hundred dry wells in a row, each of those dry wells is costing a quarter of a million bucks. That's just wasted. Like that, he is gambling. That's why he loves this.

Is this is gambling? - Mm-hmm. - We're not, we're not putting fucking four grand asks down at a night of poker. We're putting a quarter of a million dollars

on one roll of the fucking dice. - This is his king. - And he's doing that hundreds of times. - Yes, yes, absolutely. - It's so bizarre.

I also just, I guess I'm just so, I can't imagine growing up poor, having that be your origin story, and being so casual with risking everything. - No.

- Like I just, I would just want to be so comfortable

“with my two wives, like, I think that's part of the key”

is he doesn't grow up poor. He is one of eight kids in her, it's five grand, which is a shitload of money at that point in time, right? That's a comfortable inheritance. His dad is a 500 acre farm, they are not poor,

because he wants to have that message for himself. - Right, right. Like I am in that kind of boat where like, I didn't grow up, we were certainly weren't dirt poor,

we were never missing meals, but like my earliest memories

are all the financial anxiety, because like my mom tried to start a business, and then I've been to both failed, and we went fucking broke, you know, our aunt and uncle who were like business partners went bankrupt, like it was my dad had to leave

for almost two years to work in New York, 'cause the only place he could get a job, and that wasn't our house, and once I started making money, I don't gamble, like I don't gamble, and I don't invest in crazy, like I'm really conservative

with like, my investments and like finances, like saving for retirement, yeah, I am very risk-averse, because I don't want to be scared about money again, 'cause I spent a lot of my life scared about money. - Yeah, I used to even make fun of my mom's,

'cause she would do like the lotto tickets every day, and I'm like, mom, why are you doing it? Just save your money, give me the money, I'll save it.

“- Yeah, yeah, so again, I think that he's like this”

in part, because he doesn't grow a poor, right? So he also has a super power,

so he knows he can always make more money gambling,

which I think really helps too. That said, you know, obviously this doesn't work smoothly or perfectly, Hunt has his ups and downs, but the ups outnumber the downs to such an extent that by the time the U.S.

enters World War II, this is the craziest fact, you know, how rich this guy is, how big a deal he is in the oil and gas industry, at the start of World War II, the start, when the U.S. enters World War II,

HL Hunt personally owns more oil reserves than all of the access powers put together. - She's like, if you just want to like little hint about by the time the U.S. enters, how fucked the access is from the start of that portion of World War II,

one guy in the U.S. has more oil than all of the access powers have access to one guy. They were once that, they could never have won. - What's the U.S. got involved? - Like, when you let the U.S. and Russia,

and all of the people, like these people were so fucking fucked, HL Hunt has more oil than all of your assets. - Drop him on the board, just like we have a hole, we have a hunt, just like we've got our fucking hunt. Now, that also, by the way, should answer the question,

I shouldn't have to explain at this point,

“how did this guy become the richest man in the world?”

When World War II started, he owned all of the oil. How do you think that worked for him? Yeah, that's my business hack advice. His own all of the oil on earth when a World War starts. - Right that down, everyone.

- Like, that'll, well, when that World War starts, might not help you with the same way

if a third one kicks off, folks.

So, I would be remiss if I didn't point out, though, that owning the most productive oil wells on earth during World War II was not hunts only business in the early mid-1940s. His FBI file notes that, as of 1943,

he was alleged to be the operator of a private horse race and gambling bookiest establishment near his office in Dallas. So, he continues running a casino, but at this point, it's just for fun, right? It's love of the game.

- Yeah, his money. - Like, vibes. Like, he absolutely, and he'll get in trouble a couple of times. There'll be some like investigations,

“'cause he stays involved in a lot of illegal gambling stuff.”

As an adult, he'll nearly get in trouble a couple of times, but it's just for shits and giggles at this stage. Now, obviously, up to this point, this is like a dude who I don't think is very pleasant, but there's not enough to make him a bastard,

you know, at this stage in the oil and gas industry, he doesn't know about climate change. That's certainly not like the widespread scientific consensus, so he can't really get him on that. He hasn't done anything, he's a shitty dad,

and he's big and misty married, and those are bad things, but on its own, I don't do a behind-the-baster, just 'cause a guy's got a shitty personal life. So, now we're gonna talk about this stuff that makes him earn his way onto the podcast.

- I'm nervous 'cause it's World War II time. - I know, it's not to the beginning. - It's a terrible nerve. - You know, you get the, he's firmly right wing at the time World War II starts. I haven't seen any allegations of pronazi sentiment,

but he's anti-intervention at the start of the war, and opposes US entry into the war, right? Which suggests to me maybe some aligned head, some mid-for-line things there. Yeah, that said, once the war starts, he realizes that,

because of the way oil depletion allowances, work in tax laws, and I'm not gonna explain this in detail, 'cause I don't know much about taxes, but it's this thing that because of the way it works, you can kind of not pay taxes at all,

if you're an oilman in a specific way, right? - Uh-uh. - Per his biographer, hunt began to realize that maybe he had been a trifle hasty and opposing American intervention.

So, basically he's like, "Wait a second, I can sell all of the oil

"to the Allied powers, and I don't have to pay taxes on it." - No, World War II sounds great. (laughs) - I'm gonna make this work. - Yeah, make as many shermons as you guys

want, what are those things get? Half a mile into the gallon, awesome. Yeah, keep rolling those fuckers off the line. So his big fear, though, during this period of time, is that his son, Hassie, now 22 years old,

might get drafted, right? He doesn't want his boy, his name's sake, to go to war and die. So he works at a deal with the US government, 'cause, you know, Hassie's got a serve,

you know, they're drafted and everyone they can. So his son gets joins the army

and gets commissioned immediately as a second lieutenant, right?

Which is not like, I mean, that some people do join in our commission to be the second lieutenant's and stuff.

“That's how you start if you're like an officer,”

but his son specifically gets commissioned because of who his dad is. And the job, he, the very neppo baby thing, and he doesn't want to be a neppo baby. By this point in time, Hassie has already established

himself independently as a successful oil man, like a separate from his dad, and he hates his dad. And he really does not want to be associated with his father. And his dad, forces him, by working with the government, forces him into the situation that now he's made

to join the army, and he's made to take a job with the army where he's working in DC, and he's basically advising the leader of China's nationalist faction during their civil war. So he's like working with Chiang Kai Shek's guys, specifically, I think, on like oil, a lot of oil-related stuff.

And he's doing this because his dad makes this job for him. He doesn't want this job, and he's really unhappy to be forced to once again live in his dad's shadow. This like, fucks him up a lot. In the book Kingdom to Syll writes about how Hassie has the,

this is like, if he wanted to, this would have been a great opportunity. If he enjoyed being a neppo baby, it has been the war partying, and hitting on all the hot ladies who are lonely because the men are gone.

just yet another fascinating passage from his biography. The variety of females was enhanced by the Chinese nationalist government, which staffed its embassy heavily with new bio-young beauties

from the Asian mainland, willing young females have always been one

of the earth's most readily accepted forms of currency. And currency was required to purchase power and influence. She, the gross, gross. Like, yeah, you're not wrong. I'm sure the Chinese nationalist government did staff their embassy with hoties,

because they know that that allows them to like, you can use hot girls to help you spy on people, and you can use them to gain blackmail stuff. But like, that's a gross way to write that. Also, the variety of females.

Yeah. It's always used as females, man. It's very like an important thing. Like the females are new bio-a-man, please. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. It's weird to sell.

It's weird.

“So, but, you know, I don't doubt also that like that is basically what's going on, right?”

Hasse is very unhappy in this situation. He had been starting again. He'd been living independently. He was like starting to succeed on his own. And then his dad uses the U.S. government to trap him and force him to take the job his dad wants him to have.

Like, it's the most controlling thing that you could possibly do as a father. And this is very in line with how he is as a dad. He's never there.

And he never burried any emotional support.

But he also has a very specific idea of what he wants his namesake to do for a living. And he will like burrate him and scream at him. Anytime he does anything different or anytime he falls short. And now he's like, oh, you want to live independently into your own thing? No, fuck you. You're taking this job that I've made the government give you.

And you're going to do it. And Hasse is deeply uncomfortable. And he has what sounds like a psychotic break one night after a party at the Chinese embassy and flies into a violent rage, destroying all of the furniture in the room and like fighting people. And when hotel staff approach him, he starts screaming, I've been betrayed.

Betrayed by the Rockefellers betrayed by my father's enemies. They're all allowed to get me. So maybe it's kind of hard. I don't know what's going on with him. It may have been like paranoid schizophrenia.

Because he's like, never going to get better. He's mentally ill the rest of his book. He broke his boy. Yeah, I do love that the Rockefellers come up that way all the time. Betrayed by the Rockefellers.

“That's what I was laughing at at the scene of every crime.”

But in this case, they are literally in place. But I love it. I do love how it's like they have like their his son ends up doing like a rival oil company this day. Like his brother and his dad had the rival banks. It's just like fathers and sons.

Yeah. Great succession. Exactly. It's so murder coded the way that he very much. Yeah, I'm just going to absorb you into the coalition. Whether you want to be independent or not, it's so hard on. Oh, you don't have any choice in this?

Yeah. So he winds up, has he winds up in a military hospital. And when his dad comes for a visit, has he charges him and tries to beat him up. Like he basically rushes his dad. As soon as his dad walks into the room and tries to assault him,

he has to be restrained by guards. H.L. Hunt tells his wife after this. The boy is too high spirited, too sensitive.

He's always been too sensitive and reckless.

Why? There's nothing wrong with the jeans in that boy. He comes from the finest stock. Problem is he's to say, his jeans are good. He him for me. He's got to be that, you know, he made these personality.

He made choices to be too sensitive.

“You know, that's what's wrong with them.”

And when he says this, his daughter Margaret, his oldest child, who's there, turns to him and replies, "You destroyed Hassie. Nobody but you. You've gotten away with a kind of murder.

And it's time you face up to that." "Alda's daughter. That's what you love." "That's what you love." "That's what you love."

"That's what you love." "Oh, living up to the Margaret name we love it." "Yeah, living up to that Margaret name." And you know, who else is named Margaret? Not the sponsors of our podcast, maybe, but we don't know.

They could be. "What if it's a promo for cool people to cool stuff?" "Again, they could be. Could be. Nine boss per.

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Jacob told Levant, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And we're back. So, speaking of being a great parent and husband, back in 1934, Frania, his second wife,

“had figured out that he had another secret family, right?”

I don't know exactly how, but she finds out that they've got another secret family, and they drift apart after that. She's not happy about this. Per the Texas State Historical Association, Hunt apparently shipped her off to New York and in 1941,

provided trusts for each of the four children. A friend of his John Lee married her and gave his name to the children. For an idea, he's so rich now. When his second family gets pissed and leaves in order to like hide what he's done, he basically, I'm sure, pays his friend to marry the family

and pretend to be the father of those kids. That's so weird. Crazy stuff. That's so wild. Some people have much money. Like, this is like, yeah, you could just be a dad.

You could just, everyone who's ever been the richest man in the world has had too much money. We can start there. Yeah, period. Yeah.

That's amazing. Yeah, gross shit in 1946, right after the war ended, a coal strike hits the east coast. So there's this strike for the same reason.

People always strike, and it's causing this like energy shortage,

and Hunt breaks the strike by supplying huge amounts of natural gas to the southwest. Basically, you guys don't need coal from these coal miners. I've got all of this union free natural gas, and he winds up supplying 85% of the fuel needs of the east coast. Jesus.

“Again, he's not surprising that in 1948, I think life magazine”

names him the richest man on earth. He has an estimated net worth of $263 million, which would be the equivalent of like $3.5 billion today. But he can't rest or sit on his laurels. The United States was only able to win World War II by partnering with

the communists. And he came to believe that a vast conspiracy was at work to destroy the United States from the inside. And H.L. Hunt knows a communist uprising would be very bad for H.L. Hunt, right?

His business is he doesn't think will do well. He's like, these are my money. This is my money. Yeah. Oh, they're not going to like me.

“By the start of the 1950s, Hunt had figured out his own path out of the dangers of socialism.”

He begins envisioning and sketching out the dimensions of his ideal utopian state, which is this kind of like dream libertarian capitalist republic, where votes are assigned in elections based on how much you pay in taxes. Oh, my God. The primary thing that determines how many votes you get.

Yeah, we'll talk more about that later. Some might call an idea like this fascism adjacent, but Hunt doesn't care. His life has taught him that reality would mold to fit whatever he wants.

So, he decides to brute force his dream utopia into being. He's going to like make America become this country. He's very much like a proto-pedertial type. He has this dream after he gets rich of how to reorganize society, so that he doesn't have to listen to anyone else.

And he then begins putting his money into supporting a variety of causes and making media that will convince all of the dummies who would everyone else in the United States that what he wants is best for everybody. He becomes a vocal supporter of Senator Joseph McCarthy,

who he saw as a patriot protecting the nation

“from a vast cabal of secret communist agents”

who had infiltrated every level of society. Hunt decides to fight back against this left-wing infiltration of all of our cultural and social governmental organs

by funding one of the first explicitly right-wing media organizations in the country.

The facts for him founded in 1951 was immediately the best-funded propaganda outlet in the United States. On paper, the facts for him was non-partisan and educational. It has to be non-partisan. It has to be.

We're just talking about the country. We just care about the facts, baby. Just fact and education because if you're non-partisan, if you're balanced and educational, then your content, your radio and television,

is tax-exempt, right? You don't have to pay taxes on it. Basically, you get a tax right off or whatever you put into the media, which will allow Hunt to not pay taxes, right? That's the big benefit of this is that it doesn't actually cost him money.

The money that he spends on this

is basically what he does instead of paying taxes

because of how the tax system works. So his choices basically either pay taxes and fund society or put it all into right-wing propaganda. And he's like, "Well, I would much rather put it on the right-wing propaganda." He's like, "I'm going to bet on red."

Yeah, yeah. In one early letter, Hunt describes the vision behind the facts for him as a kind of projection of the old New England town hall meeting idea. We have no acts to grind and no funds to raise. That last bit was tactically true.

He was the richest man in the world. He's not begged for donations, right? But he does beg his listeners to organize in person, advising them to set up discussion groups from 7 to 42 members and read books together and talk about the ideas that he's putting out through the show.

And in doing this and suggesting this, he's creeping off of what he understood as the playbook the Bolsheviks had used to take power.

If you listen to that, there's always like reading groups,

like socialist reading groups, all throughout the Russian, the exorist Russia that wind up being the core of, not just the Bolsheviks, all of these different like left-wing revolutionary groups, right? The start, a lot of them start as book clubs. And he's very much in a lot of anti-communists in this era post World War II,

like that's the John Bert Society, too. It was like, "What if we take the tactics these leftists are using?"

“But we turn it towards basically pro-fascist Bolsheviks, right?”

What if we give them the books that we like? Yeah, and we make them agree to our books. And we write the books. Right, maybe we can make people be like, you know, violent militant revolutionaries in favor of us not paying taxes. Yeah. So the facts forum has a membership list and a news letter,

which was free to be outright partisan and a way that the radio show could not. But for whatever reason, the newspapers and stuff that he puts out, don't have to abide by any of these rules. Every three weeks, members were pulled on current affairs. And the results, this is really interesting to me that he figures this out.

As he has his membership, answer polls that he writes. And then he sends the results to newspapers as if they're real polls that are evidence of, like, how Americans feel about issues. And a lot of newspapers publish this as if it's the news. As if these polls are, like, represent how Americans feel about things.

As opposed to what Hans really doing, because he's coming up with the polls, and it's his set group of people who are answering them. This is a way of laundering his talking points, and what he believes about politics into the mainstream media, and disguised that as, no, no, this is just how the masses feel.

Right. This is how the average American feels. This isn't just H. Elhensopinian, obviously.

I'm just trying to inform people about how everything is going on.

“He's just helping Americans think. Right.”

And this is a major propaganda thing today. A lot of people do this now. Hunt is very much like a trailblazer in this. He made his thinking on how this worked very clear in a pamphlet published by the facts for him. What you believe in, say, is public opinion.

Public opinion is a constant immutable force, which can be altered or changed only by itself. I don't like him. When you're literally writing public opinion, yeah, interesting. So from the jump, the only opinion Hans interested in was his own. He is not organizing with other conservatives. Because he's so special, Robert. Right. Yeah. He's got the best one. He's got the best one. He's got the best one.

“He's got the best one. He's got the best one. He's got the best one.”

He's got the best one. He's got the best one. He's got the best one. But this is interesting. He's not like, you know, a lot of like these modern conservative groups are funded by multiple people. And you have like groups coming together to fund these organizations. That have their own thinkers in them, too, who have like their own. And they're all pushing an agenda. But it's like an agenda that's a mix of multiple people like working together.

Hans propaganda is just hunt. He does not talk to anyone else. He doesn't organize with it. He doesn't need to. He hates people. Right. He is not interested in the facts form being a place where other conservatives can express their opinions. Right. It exists. So H. L. Hunt can convince Americans to adopt his politics. Because his belief, it's almost a religious belief to him is that he's so right about everything that if everyone just hears what he believes, everyone will adopt

his political beliefs immediately. Obviously. The narcissism. Now, the only issue for hunt. And the reason, this is a problem when he starts creating radio and TV propaganda is that he's terrified of public speaking. He hates talk into people. He doesn't, he has no charisma and he knows it. So he picks a spokesman. That's interesting. The man who apparently is so unbelievably fuckable, right, has no risk. He can make a sex worker do whatever. But God forbid, he has to sell his ideas.

Not, not. Okay. Can't convince Americans about his tax policies. He's like, he's like, yeah, I'm a certified sex god cannot put a sentence together. Public cannot cannot put a sentence together. Can't talk in front of a crowd. I was like in helicopter while telling you about my tax policy. It's just not going to work. I'll write it on my dick. Yeah. And there you go. So he picks a spokesman, Dan Smoot. And I don't have time to do a BTB on Dan's smoot. But he deserves one.

Smoot was orphaned at 10 years old. And then as a young adult is rejected by the army for medical reasons at the start of World War II. And so he joins the FBI in order to serve his country that way. Yeah, uh, there you go. He's in the FBI until 1951, when he resigns to work for hunt. And what's fair on the, is he what greasy will would call a side bastard? Yeah, he's definitely a so in what's fair on the air had their sh*t hinder shot rights of Smoot. He was willing to

temper his arch conservatism by giving two sides to the political issues discussed. So that's like a major thing. Smoot has to be able to pretend to want to discuss fairly with the other side

beliefs. Now he, his face and his vote, it's always clear what he actually believes and what he doesn't

like saying. But as long as he says it, that's all that matters. Now these were still the days in which the fairness doctor had held sway. The fairness doctor is a 1949 FCC policy that required broadcast license holders to present controversial issues in a matter that fairly depicted differing views. Individuals shows didn't have to abide by this, but license holders did. So if you have a right wing show, you're supposed to have like a left wing show too, right? And because that's

very expensive, networks are always looking for balance to news programs to fill the air where you don't have to have a second one to counteract the bias of the first one, right? So this is they're always desperate for balanced content. And the fact that he's hunt is making this and giving it two networks for free makes it really attractive to them. Like they're going to give it free air

time because it's free. In 1951, the facts form benefited from about 5 million per year in free public

“service airtime. And again, I think there's tax benefits to the networks for running balanced”

educational content too. So that also makes this attractive to them. One estimate I've seen is that in 1954, a hunt benefited from the modern day equivalent of half a billion dollars a year in free airtime, which is the calculations that in 2016 in that election Trump got about a billion dollars in free airtime just in terms of like because of how like many how much coverage the news gave everything

It's a lot of free airtime, right? It's about 25,000 hours of free right wing propaganda on the

radio and TV per year that's marketed and build as non-partisan. Interesting. Heat crossfire energy. It's like we're just having a conversation. Yeah. Right. He's invented Fox news. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His shows all air on struggling networks that need free content, which at that point meant the mutual radio network and ABC. This quote from what's fair on the air gives you a good idea of how episodes of facts for him tend to go. One episode of facts for him asked whether those

advocating the violent overthrow of the U.S. government should be subject to the death penalty. On the pro side, the answer was yes. Of course, such a conspiracy was worse than murder.

On the con side, the argument was that such conspirators were only doops or communist

sympathizers. Dangerous. Yes. But those were just misguided pawns, who civil rights should be respected. Thus, as one critic described it, a negative argument against the death penalty for communist conspirators turns into a positive affirmation that nation is in imminent danger

“of collapse from subversion, a favorite facts for him thesis. Right. So that's how even though”

they're kind of pretending that this is non-biased, everyone even the left wing argument pushes a right wing narrative. And there are critics who noticed this at the time. In 1954, Ben Baghdikian, which is a real name, wrote a takedown of the facts for him. Yeah. Complaining that

when it used the terms pro-Soviet and un-American, it meant, quote, those terms include the Roosevelt

and Truman administrations and the people who supported them. Right. So yeah, and when it refers to American freedom, the show means, among other things, a total absence of government regulation and business and a withdrawal from the United Nations. They refering to these things as things everyone believes in agrees with, even though they're very much not. Right. Right. Yeah. And we'll talk more about these shows, the facts for him, the shows that follow that. And

Hunts bizarre personal life and the things he comes to believe about health and wellness. But

“I think that's all we've got for part two. So I'm guessing it's going to have to be a three-parter.”

Princess, how are you feeling at the end of this? I'm so ready. I want to know more about this guy. I feel like I'm watching the origin of so much evil. Yes. Well, good stuff, everybody. Good stuff. So that's that's it everybody. We're done for the day. Why don't you go and, uh, I don't know, love yourself. Touch grass. Love yourself. Love me. Love someone else. Love your two families. Yeah. Or four.

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how many men carry a suit or armor. It's similar to the world that you not to be played with,

“and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to.”

Listen to learn the hard way on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Hart Podcast, guaranteed Human.