Part Two: The Phil Spector Episodes

[MUSIC]

>> Welcome back to behind the bastards. A podcast this week is about Filium Spectre.

I'm fairly certain that's not what his first name is.

Here to correct me, Greasy Will.

“>> That's actually, I think his name was Filium.”

I have no reason to dispute that. >> I do lead the truth in. >> Yeah, absolutely, 100%. I do want to lead off with saying that I forgot last episode, but I did want to mention, I have made a playlist

of all of Filium Spectre's music. I thought that it would be very, even though it's technically whenever you're doing this as educational, so you can use music for anything that you want when it's educational. But I thought it would be, especially with the new prestigious Netflix

deal that you guys got. I didn't want you to have any copyright competition. >> Right. >> Are you building too?

>> No, I'm just saying, I just do what you guys have any complications.

So instead of what I think is Filium's most seminal song, instead of playing that, I'll play you my interpretation of it. Thank you all for listening. I will be here all week. [MUSIC]

[MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC]

[MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> That was beautiful.

“>> Well, that was genuinely one of the sweetest scenes.”

>> I loved that. >> I wanted to say, I just want everybody to know, this was not an AI song. I legitimately made that song.

>> I will never have as cues to you with that.

>> I know, but it's right now, there's so much, like, you know, like, 50 cent does 50 song, you know, like, do up, you know, like, no, I legit, I brought in a girl her name is Clancy. I shot her out. Shout out, Clancy.

She was amazing. She crushed that Ronnie Spectre vibe. She absolutely killed it. It was amazing. And I, and I very much appreciate it.

>> Yeah. >> But, yes, I really wanted to-- >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that.

>> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that.

>> You really wanted to show that.

>> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that.

>> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that.

>> You really wanted to show that.

>> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that.

>> You really wanted to show that. You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that.

>> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that.

>> You really wanted to show that. >> You really wanted to show that. >> The musicians were interchangeable. The studio was important to him. Goldstar studios in Hollywood on Vine.

“And which is no longer there by the record.”

It was a shitty studio in the 1960s. >> I got a break here to say. Well, I favored early in our friendship memories. Was coming to visit you at the studio.

You were working at an LA for the first time with Lenny.

And like crack in a sixth pack when you're like. Put in the finishing touches on something. And you're like. You know, this is where they made pet sounds. And I was like, oh, this building.

You're like, no, like this room is the room. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, right here. >> Yeah, which again. I mentioned this the first episode.

But part of my love for this whole story is that this is all combined. This story is all one story. >> Which also includes Charles Manson. I don't know if you know that. >> Yeah.

>> Charles Manson is in this whole thing too. And I actually have a little bit like dang. I should pivot from this one the next one. I come over here. I should Charles Manson Beach Boys.

>> No, it's a little bit about the Beach Boys and Charlie Manson. But not as much as the subject deserves. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. It is, I mean, it will get there.

We'll get there.

“That's a little special thing for you guys in the future.”

You'll love it. >> Mm-hm. >> So yeah. So, you know, Phil is working at Goldstar. The Beach Boys are, Brian Wilson actually is part of these early background people.

Not singers. He's like hangar on. He's like showing up places and being like, "Oh, Phil's working."

He's a kid.

And he's just like, "Oh, I just want to see what Phil is doing."

“Because Phil is the guiding force of what would become the Beach Boys,”

which would then become the Beatles who's like whole vibe on how they, they just were not doing the Phil is the architect of this original sound. And he cannot be stressed enough how big of a deal this is. Like he is, like as big as Dr. Dre is, right? Like when you think of like, "Oh, like everybody knows Dr. Dre,

everybody knows Phil's specter." >> Right. >> Across continents, they know Phil's specter. Everybody knows Phil's specter, right? He is after the hits that he's crafted already.

He's worldwide. He's pitful and sound. >> Right.

>> He's the first Mr. Worldwide.

He is also, as I said, only about like five foot, three or whatever. And anywhere else he starts wearing heels all the time. Because he doesn't want people to know how short he is. He starts losing his hair, which we'll talk about a little bit. And so he starts wearing wigs and starts icon.

This is the beginning of all this. He's like 21 and he's like losing his hair at a crazy rate. He's a guy. Real insecure about it.

“Really has a lot of self-worth image issues.”

You know, he really just does not like. He's doing all this because of that. He's trying to go bigger and bigger and bigger because he looks at himself as being just like the worst. Because you know, mom issues and all that. >> Yeah.

>> But by the mid-1960s, Phil Specter had achieved something few producers had ever managed. He had transformed himself from songwriter into brand, from collaborator into architect. The wall of sound was no longer experimental. It was defining popular music.

But as his professional authority grew, so did his emotional instability.

He got married to a woman named Annette Morar. Right? And it is such a small blip. Like this is I should have started with that. But it's such a small blip.

He marries her and immediately just starts ignoring her. Has no interest her. He loved bombs her. He does what we now call love bombs. Yeah.

He loved bombs that shit out of her. But then once they get married, because this is like a very short courtship. Once they get married, he's like not interested anymore. So. >> That gives me.

>> He's married. >> Sorry. >> That gives me major. Because all I'm saying. >> Yeah.

>> Well, calm down on hating on people for bad relationship. Since we have real life. >> Well, I want to talk. >> Yeah. >> I'm doing the best I can.

>> Yeah. I figured out the problem. It's me. >> Yeah. >> I'm in the same place.

>> I figured out the problem. >> It is. >> It is. >> It is. >> One hundred percent.

We figured out the problem. But the real, you know, we got a thing. >> You got ninety nine problems. But you're the bitch. And it's.

>> Yeah. >> I got ninety nine problems. And I'm all of them. >> And I have been nefariously behind every single one of them. >> Yeah, yeah.

>> This will never come back to me.

>> Yeah. >> All my problems are either me or the government, which is why I really focus on hating the government. >> That's true. >> All right.

So his paranoia is escalating.

“His reliance on intimidation is becoming really normalized, right?”

>> That's actually kind of interesting. So he loved bombs this person. He obsessed with her. And they get married, but then he no longer wants to like control or stalker. >> No, he literally, he, so that's the behavior.

>> He basically, it's that classic like as soon as he gets it. He's not interested in it. >> Yeah. >> Don't let comes. >> Because he gets it.

It pivots like the whole thing changes, right? >> But he doesn't want to control her anymore. >> Not really. It's more like, it's more of like he, I mean, he is still controlling, right? But he just doesn't care at all.

You know, like most of the time, he's more interested in his career and his work and what's going on in the studio. He builds a studio underneath his house so that he can just like be down there whenever he's like, anytime he's annoyed or like whatever he just goes downstairs. So he has the ultimate like a skate plan. >> Yeah.

I'm sure if he were to catch her cheating on him, he'd be pissed, but he's hardly paying enough attention to know. >> Got it. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Very much, at this point, he's very much interested in Phil.

Phil is what's driving him, right? >> Yeah. >> So what he's looking for this whole time, he keeps talking about this is a constant reference. He's looking for the voice, he's looking for the voice that perfectly compliments his wall of sound. His musical compositions, like being all these like big,

phognarian like opuses and everything, he wants a person to be that thing, to be that front and center for all of this to make it worth what he's doing. >> Right. >> He doesn't feel like he's found that with any of his previous stuff.

In walks, Ronnie Bennett.

Ronnie Bennett, let's talk about Ronnie Bennett will eventually become his wife's boiler alert.

“I don't know how much I wrote, so now I just got a lot.”

I wrote a lot, there's a lot of words in here. I've 48 pages, you wrote my friend. >> Brief? >> Yeah, well, I'm angel. >> Yes, no, no, that's exactly what I was going to say.

You know, I'm on the subreddits, I'm on the YouTube's. I read the comments, I read the comments because they keep me humble. Because like, I'll be like post and something on the internet and some of you like, this guy's a fucking loser, and I'm like, oh, cool, you know. I'm not going to do that on the loser.

>> No, I just, you know, I got to, I got to keep it real out there. But sometimes I see comments on there where people will be like, I can't believe Robert did fuck you. Fuck everyone of you who has ever made a comment like that. Fuck any of you who have ever said anything bad about Sophie too.

I slept a shit out of you. And this is for the subreddit right now. I'm one of you, and I see the things you say kind of disgusted by them sometimes. Because I'm like, do you know, this took me a year. This took me a whole year to do this.

I'm a busy person, but even whenever I was like, like, you know, I told you, like, last week, oh, I'm done with this, and I was like mostly done. But I wrote another like 3,000 words because I was like, well, there's some parts I'm missing and all this. >> Because it's hard to miss it. >> And you're going to miss it.

>> And I hear all your little internet comments, like, oh, he's did some weird shit. Or why do I, yeah, I'm doing my best dude. It's like, I'm improvising at the same time. I'm obviously drinking a little bit. And like, you know, he's got to have a break.

>> Well, that's what he did. >> Got to do that. >> I don't know, anybody else operates, but this is how I do things. Speaking of which, purchase greasy does it, recording course taught by me. >> Wow. >> Very responsible.

>> Thank you, thank you.

>> Marketing driven, incredible work.

>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, so Ronnie is born into a family shape. She's born in Spanish Harlem, New York City, August 10th, 1943,

four years after Phil was born just down the street, basically. They probably lived almost in the same area this time, essentially. All right, so her father, Lewis Bennett, was an Irish American, and her mother was African American Cherokee. Her father was also a drummer and a drunk.

Something that can still be found together in massive quantities around the world. You can have a drummer and drinking anywhere you go. It's true. You can find it. It's prevalent in Coca-Cola, man.

It's there. So, he's also a failure, right? He can't keep a job. He can't do anything. He's just a mess most of the time.

“So she grows up not really down with alcohol, right?”

This is important for later, but she starts her life. >> Sure. >> Understandable. Being traumatized by a little bit by alcohol.

She always loves her dad, but she definitely feels like, you know, this is an alcohol thing.

Yeah, she loves singing. She's really big on like Frankie Lyman. She loves Frankie Lyman. She thinks he's the best ever. Dina Washington.

Just voices that were raw and like real, real authentic feeling, right? And she also gravitated towards performance. She was always like, you know, the classic front woman thing. You know, it's like, when she was a little kid, she was always singing in a microphones.

You know, it's like that story, right? Her father being a drummer and a failed drummer did not discourage her mother because her father left pretty early. But it didn't discourage her mother from encouraging Ronnie's musical talent. She didn't just like all of a sudden, I mean, if it was me, like, dude, I had ex-girlfriends that were like, my ex-boyfriend was a drummer and he failed a music.

So you can't possibly make money off a music and I'm like, you know, maybe you're wrong. I don't know. To be fair, I didn't make a lot of money off of it, so whatever.

So yes, so her mom, her mom supports her, her dad's always waxing poetic about his days as a musician.

So she grows up as that being like a really important thing. Right. She was always singing school events, neighborhood functions. She got a style, right? That's something that happens when you do a lot of music is eventually.

At first, you're just learning. You're just trying to replicate other people's things.

“But eventually, once you do it enough, you develop style, right?”

And for her, she developed a very unique style. It was very raw. It wasn't musically perfect, but it had just a tone that was just beautiful. Everybody recognized it. Right.

So her oldest sister is Stella and her cousin, Nedra, formed a vocal group called The Darling Sisters. The trio practice constantly singing in school hallways, street corners in their apartments. That's like a thing that still happens in this time period. People like, yeah. Just singing in public.

Bro, if you saw that shit, now you'd be like, "Oh, my God, fucking influencers are this serious." Yeah.

Unfortunately, I would assume it's an incredibly irritating, tick-tock thing ...

Some fucking viable shit or something.

“I don't want to be a part of your fucking video's weirdo.”

Yeah. I'd be a huge asshole about it. I would absolutely, I mean, you guys suck anyways. I don't even want you for making music in public. I'll tell you.

So, the group was eventually renamed The Ronettes, a name that captured their identity, and Ronnie's emerging role as a front woman. You know, Ronnie and The Ronettes. It's very normal. Sure.

It's normal. Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, Ronnie's lead vocals really do become the defining characteristic of this whole thing.

There are early performances where energetic glamorous and slightly rebellious. Ronnie developed a stinkative stage presence that blended confidence with vulnerability. She wore dramatic eye makeup, teased her hair into towering beehives, and moved with a swagger that contrasted with her petite frame. She was creating an image that felt simultaneously innocent and dangerous and aesthetic

that would later become iconic in 1968 popcoder. Sophie, if you would, please show Phil and the lovely ladies of The Ronettes. Yeah. Either way. They didn't invent that beehive hair do?

Yeah. They're the reason it became popular, right?

It was like there, their adoption of it was the thing that made that.

You, I mean, that was, I can't, my grandmother had one of those when I was a kid still, and it was like the 80s. Like it stayed on for 20 some years. How popular that was. Yeah.

So it's like their cultural relevance just cannot be understated in any way. They were incredibly important to the look of the early 60s. So breaking into the professional music industry proved difficult for them. The Ronettes performed at clubs and talent contests, dance venues all throughout New York City, struggling to secure recording contracts or industry attention.

The persistence reflected both ambition and necessity because music was important to Ronnie. Like she, it was, get Richard die trying on this. You know, she was 50 cent hard right now. Eventually the group secured opportunities to perform at venues that expose them to evolving pop and rhythm and blues scene of the 1960s New York. They performed the peppermint lounge and other popular clubs and, again, Ronnie driving the way.

Yeah. They were starting to get, sorry, go ahead. Just because this is, and Spectre, and I know what's coming is like, based on just how he treats artists like the replaceability of them treating just like another tool. And hearing a story like this that really drives home just like, no to get anywhere close to people hearing you on the radio.

“You have to have been relentless about making it your life like as suddenly unhinged in your dedication to this career.”

Especially at this time, right? Like, and it's a really good point. Like a cannot, the dedication cannot be understated. It's like at this point in order to get a record made, right? It, that cost a lot of money, you know, like, for the time, you know, be like $200 or $200 or something like that to record a song at the studio.

Like $200 is like a whole month's paycheck for people. It's a crazy amount of money. Yes, it's a lot of money for a lot of people. So, and it's still kind of that way today. In fact, if you're interested in working with Greasy Will, you can find them with the Greasy Factory.

Like me as you move back. Sorry. Anyway, so, you know, it's very expensive. So even to just get something recorded as expensive, then you have to get it to a DJ. You have to get it on the radio because the only way you will ever sell anything is if it's on the radio. So you got to get it on the radio and then it has to build local support.

And then it has to build regional support. And then it has to build, you know, it's like, sometimes this is like a year's long process to get music to be heard. So she's possibly, she's like relentless in trying to get her stuff out there. Absolutely, absolutely. She strongly believed that the right producer would eventually understand how to capture her voice authentically.

And she continued performing relentlessly, touring, rehearsing and refining her stage present. She saw a career not as a sudden break waiting to happen, but something that she would build through persistence and emotional honesty. So, yes, that's exactly it. She worked. She put in the work from the time she was like 14 years old, just grinded all the time.

“Oh, yes, I'd say it's the only way to do it, but it's the only way to do it if like you're not somebody who's coming from somewhere.”

You know, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of meppa babies in the music industry right now. So we don't have to pretend. So they, they're rising through New York, it's 1963, and there she's looking for this producer and coincidentally a producer is looking for his voice, his muse, his wall of sound, his girl who will be that for him. And they meet, they literally, it's very funny.

They, they literally just, they just call, you know, it's like the, it's like 1963, just like, you just look up in the telephone.

You want to, you want to produce my album?

Yeah, it's like, when I think about the old days of how things were done, it's like, what you just called somebody, I wouldn't even answer a phone call from a number I don't.

Right, you know, yeah, you just pick up the phone and yeah, get a fucking music deal based on that. Yeah, so they're assuming your call timed in well with when he just done a line. Yeah, you might be able to fucking make some shit happen. Absolutely.

“So yeah, so I was like, all right, so they, they just call them. They call them and he's like, oh, yeah, I've heard of you guys because they're making a noise in New York, right?”

And fill it this time too. There's a lot of geographical confusion with a lot of the stuff that he is bouncing back and forth between California and New York all the time. Like, it's like he loves working in gold star, so he goes out to California to work at Goldstar, the studio. But he, he doesn't like the New York scene is still the scene, right? So he's got to like go to New York and then he flies back and then he'll work there for a while. So a lot of times it might seem like he is just like transport and across the country and the story, but he really is.

So he heard Phil in Ronnie, he heard the voice that he had, he'd been waiting for the emotional landscape that he had spent years construction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would fit perfectly with her, right? The professional relationship, though, immediately blurs into personal fixation.

Yeah, he starts, he starts spending, you know, extraordinary amounts of time rehearsing Ronnie rehearsing Ronnie. He's always rehearsing Ronnie.

Like, it's like Ronnie stay after we got to do this, you know, Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie, it's like always Ronnie. And of course, she is the front woman. I'm not saying, you know, that's not important or whatever. But it's like, it very obvious, right, that he is that he is, he's trying to push her to have her.

“Isolate her is a great isolation is began disguises meant to be exactly, right?”

Oh, that's never happened before. Yes, you know, it also hasn't happened before advertisements. We're the first podcast to do that. So yeah, you're welcome. Yes, let's do it. Hey, I'm Jay Shelley. Host of the on-purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Khan. The singer songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit, Stix season, and one of the biggest voices in music today. Noah opens up about the pressure that followed his rapist success. His struggles with mental health and body image and the fear of starting again after such a defining moment in his career.

It's easy to look at somebody and be like, your life must be so sick. Man, you have no clue. Talking about the mental illness stuff, used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically or in pain and some emotional way in my life to create good music. If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm good." Someone says that I suck, I'm like, "I suck."

Getting the talk about this is not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Noah Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is Back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode is a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians.

Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Lavey, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Olesia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend and more. Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin. You even did the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I would definitely the Phantom and that.

That's so funny. So coming out with us in the studio and listen to playing along on the iHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, former Bachelor Star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth.

“You doctored this particular test twice in selling, correct?”

I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Some likes the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg, a Westby end. I can imagine it. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is LoveTrap. Laura, Scott State Police.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at AmeriCorps Accountia's Laura Owens has...

This isn't over until Justice has served in Arizona. Listen to LoveTrap podcast on the I-Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

“Why hasn't a woman formally participated in a Formula One race weekend in over a decade?”

Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age? What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He's still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Waga Getting change the paddock forever? That day is just seared into my memory.

I'm a culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman. And these are just a few of the questions I'm tackling on no grip. A Formula One culture podcast that dives into the under explored pockets of the sport. In each episode, a different guest and I will go deeper into the wacky mishaps scandals and sagas, both on the track and far away from it, that have made F1 a delightful,

a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no grip on the I-Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back into Phil Spector. I don't know if I like that.

He did it. So be safe. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to portray Ronnie as a victim and only as a victim, right?

But it kind of denies the fact that Phil Spector is Phil Spector at this time. He is a legendary person in the music industry. And she fell into love with him as well. It was not one side of it. It was not just Phil Love bombing her.

But it was, in fact, quote,

I already knew I liked him that first day.

And I knew he liked me too. It really was love at first sight on both our parts. Even though I hardly said three words the whole night. I didn't have to say anything else. We communicated in other ways.

Every time Phil put that song back on, I was wondering if he wasn't trying to tell me something because it sure did speak to me. I couldn't stop thinking that today. I really met the boy I was going to marry.

And that's for Ronnie's book, Be My Baby. Oh. Yes. From Ronnie's book, Be My Baby. I know where the show is.

He's so bummed about it. Yeah. He showers her with gifts, attention, grand declarations of devotion. Like he is just, he's on it, right? Yeah.

“However, remember I said that Phil has his studio in his house, right?”

Yes. And he is still married. Oh, his wife lives upstairs. So again, this is also from Ronnie's book. She goes to visit him.

And she says, quote,

I'd never been in a penthouse before.

Phil or anyone else. So naturally, when I walked in, he was peeking into all the closets and poking around behind all the closed doors. I opened one door and was surprised to find a bedroom where six or seven pairs of women's shoes were scattered all over the floor. I asked Phil who they belonged to,

and he nearly turned pink. We used stop snooping around where you don't belong. He snapped. I think it was the first time I ever saw Phil loses temper. Okay, honey.

I said, I'm sorry. He must have noticed the hurt look in my eyes because he softened his tone immediately. Those are my sister Shirley's shoes. He explained. She stays here sometimes when she's in New York.

Liar, liar pants on fire. Uh-huh. Sister Shirley. Yeah.

“Bro, getting mad was the distraction to come up with the excuse, right?”

He was like, what are you looking around for? Oh, yes, sister shoots. Well, those are my sister shoots. If I thought of that before, I wouldn't have gotten mad for her.

I thought of sister shoots immediately. I wouldn't have gotten mad. Come on. So, you know, he abrupt defensive, you know, aggressive. This is, this is a pattern that would kind of define the relationship, you know.

Yeah. Curiosity would be met with intimidation or reality would be replaced with Phil's version of truth. Right. She's gaslighting.

She accepts that. She accepts that. She accepts that. She accepts that as the truth, right? And just doesn't even question it.

Um, she does say that she recognized that Phil, Phil was, had some issues, right? She's like, he's got some, like, confidence issues.

And there's another quote that I think is... Confidence issues. Okay. So important. So so important.

Listen to this. All right. So this is from her book, Be My Baby. Okay.

Phil first started losing his hair around the time we met.

In fact, there's a picture that was taken when he signed us in March 1963, which also was the first day I ever saw him wearing a toupee. It was so obvious if you knew him, but he still went to great lengths to hide the fact that he wore wigs, even when we slept together.

After we'd do our foreplay, he'd get up from bed and make sure the lights were all out. That way, I couldn't watch him when he took his hair off. Then he'd stumble into the bathroom in the dark, so he could rub this acetone solvent all over his head. It was the smelly stuff in the world,

I guess it was the only thing he could get the tongue,

the toupee glue off his scalp. So he's like 21. And he's like lost all his hair already. And he is incredible. And he's the worst way possible.

“The worst way, moving it to it, oh, sorry.”

And everybody knows, everybody around him knows. But he's so powerful, you don't say anything. Sure, sure. And so it's just like everybody's just kind of accepting that this is the thing that has happened. And nobody says anything.

And they just let him go on with his little delusion about not being bald. You know, I'm not really bald. Yeah, of course, Phil. Absolutely.

I always wonder with guys like that.

Do you know that everyone knows? Is this like a power thing? Are you truly deluded? I'm so excited that you brought this up. And I can't wait for it.

Down road when we discuss Phil and his hair. Because we have to, at some point in time, really get into Phil's psyche about his hair. And spoiler is a big deal for him. It's a big deal.

It's a big deal. He just flat out does never, never acknowledges that he wears wings. It's amazing. So, and that's going to get even funnier in a couple of paragraphs.

Yeah. All right.

“So Phil brings Ronnie to California under the promise of expanding a career opportunities away from her family.”

She's now across the country, New York, to California way, you know. During this whole time, Ronnie claims to have not known that Phil was married.

She didn't find out until they had been sleeping together for several months when a fellow musician finally broke the news tour.

She had been in love with Phil and ignored all the warnings, but now it was clear. It didn't change a love. She still loved him and he still loved her. And he loved bombs are with the house and they move in together.

Um, yes. So she's literally just in like the bathroom one day and somebody's like, "Oh, yeah, because you know, because it's wife." And she's like, "Wait, what?" She's like, "Yeah, he's married.

You didn't know he's married? He's married. What are you talking about?" So she's just like, "She's hurt." But she's like, "Oh, you know, I mean, he comes and tells her, of course, you know, naturally."

Oh, it's not. We're done. We're getting divorced. It's all thing. Right?

So Phil lied to Ronnie's mother about the nature of their relationship too. And tells her that they're married already. Because she's like, "You guys can't be living together in shit." And he's like, "No, we're already married. It's fine."

And she's like, "I don't believe you." I don't believe you. I don't believe you. I don't believe you. Yeah, I don't believe you.

But I do need to like, you know, figure this all out. Right? How old is Ronnie at this time? Ronnie is like 19 years old, like 20, 19, 20. And Phil is like 22, 23 years old.

Okay. He was born in 39, so 24. He's 24. Okay. He would have these wild swings between like heavy love and then targeted insults.

One night after a show, he flew into a rage after a cameraman compliments her. And he loses his mind. Quote from Ronnie's book, quote, "This was a big thing with Phil. I lost control in front of a crowd. He hated it because that meant I was out of his control."

And on top of everything else, you came in off key. He could only ever criticize my singing for technical reasons because he knew I didn't read music. So I couldn't argue. Don't bother coming to the party after the show he ordered. I don't want to see you there.

I went straight back to my hotel room and cried.

I suppose I could have gone to the party anyways, but I never considered it.

I just couldn't go against Phil's wishes in those days. Phil couldn't control what I did once I got out on stage. But that wasn't a problem he had in our personal life. So he is, oh, this is pretty early. They're not married.

This is very early. And he's already taking control. The Beatles asked them to go on tour with the Ronettes. And she still told Ronnie not to do it. Yeah.

“And yeah, why would you want to go on tour with the Beatles?”

That's not what those guys did. He's very, yeah, that man's not going anywhere. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, fuck those guys. Those random blocs from Liverpool or whatever.

Yeah, no future. So I, so following the incident where he was urinated on, spec to develop an intensive session with personal protection. This is, this is classic Phil, right? He began collecting firearms frequently carrying them during studio sessions and public appearances.

Over time his guns become more than defensive tools. They become theatrical symbols of authority and intimidation. Naturally, right? Like this guy doesn't just, he loves guns, right? Like he likes to scare people with guns.

Oh, yes. And yeah, he loves a snub nose. He loves a 38 dude. Oh, sorry. That's a pocket gun like crazy.

It's really, it's just whip it out and wave it in people's faces. You know, that's the perfect, yeah. It's the perfect. And also, you can hit him with you. It's very heavy.

It's good. I mean, that's like hitting him with it. Hit you. That's a good pistol whip and gun for sure, right?

Yeah, when you jam it into someone's body, the slide doesn't, you know, get o...

Like you can, you can really just poke people with a 38 very easily.

And yes, and let's be real honest, too. When it comes to a 38, like, it's not like a long distance weapon. It's not a name they've done. It's not a name in gun. It's not a name in gun.

Not at all. All right. He also developed a fascination with martial arts, particularly karate. No, again, this is 1960's America. We're about to see Elvis getting into the same thing.

This is a-- Yeah, he sure was. This isn't like out of control. Lots of actors are like, okay, but all right. But Phil's particularly fun.

So he's watching television right night. And he sees a guy named Santiago Sol, break a brick with his hand. And he's it. That's it. He's sold.

He's sold. Yeah. So he starts taking lessons from this guy.

“He finds his guy and starts taking lessons from him, right?”

And he just like goes crazy. It's like every day. And he starts. He starts walking around town. Just like in a karate gig.

Just like that. Beautiful. Like this. He's inventing being a weed. That's amazing.

Yeah. Yes. And again, and again, he doesn't have real hair. So he's wearing a wig, right? He's wearing an obvious wig.

And a karate outfit. Walking around. Yeah. Oh my god. But you can't make fun of him.

Because you know he's also got to pull that 38. I mean, if you do. Yes. And probably armed with a gun. So like all of the things, right?

All right. This way. So he this also gives him access to actual karate practitioners. Because he's taken lessons from these guys. Sure.

So then he hires them. He hires Santiago to be his. His bodyguard.

“Because he's like, well, now I got this stuff guy, right?”

He's karate. Yeah. And these guys also. I just want to point out. Like, I don't know this to be facts, but I just can't stop thinking about this.

Because because of me, another bodyguard who's a karate guy, he talks about this a little bit. But you know, you know that they're getting paid a lot of money to be around this guy. They're making a lot of money off of this guy. Right? So you know they're like, yeah, bro, you're you're killing me with this karate.

Yes, man. Oh, Phil.

You're really getting the most powerful.

You're so this dangerous. Yeah, just a little push. Knock me right over Phil. No. Oh, my god.

Well, it's also especially in this period of time, just lying about your martial arts qualifications. Oh, yes. I've done 10 years in China, learning kung fu for monks. Who's going to check up on that shit? You learned that there's no words in your good, you know?

Yeah. You could lie about anything back in the day, man. So easy. Even when I was like in high school, you could still lie about things. Like, what am I going to do?

Go to the library and prove you wrong. All of the top-build Native American actress in a Hollywood would were Italian men. Italian, Gary. Yeah, the lie. It was so easy.

All right. So, um, so, sandy, uh, bodyguards for him. And then he's like, bro, I got time for this anymore. I'm actually getting a legitimate business. Like, so he passes it off to this other guy of meal, Marcus.

And a meal felt that Spectre was using his bodyguards as status symbol. But also as a threat to anyone who might get froggy. So he's like, you know, walking around, I got these guys. You know, like, what are you going to do? What kind of shit?

Very jackdority coded. You know, jackdority. Yeah. And the young to the zenials or whatever will know the fuck that is. Anyway, he's, he's, you know, he's doing that.

He's, he's going up to clubs on sunset strip. Getting in front of everybody. And then when somebody dares to question him, he says fuck you. And they're like, okay, well, that's fine. And then from out of behind him comes some actual karate guys.

You know, plus also two. And actually, actually, you know, actual karate guys in the 60s must have beat the shit out of everybody. Dude, like, they're still in like the world of like wild haymakers. Everyone else is doing like the captain Kirk 200. Yeah.

Yeah. You actually know how to hit somebody. Yeah. Your fucking is not doing this thing. Doing this thing.

Doing this thing. I'm on. Jack, Jack, Jack, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly.

“So it's like, like, actual karate guys, I think about this all the time.”

Like, they must have just mopped the floor. It's not like, now, you might actually run into like a UFC guy like, or like an MMA guy right now. You guys do actually do that now. Yes. But he's just karate guys walking around.

You know, anyway. So, so yes. So he, um, he basically is just antagonizing people. And in purposefully to cause problems. And then has his body guys beat the shit out of him.

Which is a whole super fucked up. So a meal, though, he says this is from a break in the wall of sound.

Quote, specter had never quite got the hang of karate.

He might have worn a black belt tied around his knee. And he might have boasted to journalists that in case of real trouble, I could totally kill a guy. But according to a meal, Marcus, he just play acted. He'd do a lot of chopping his hands in the air.

But he was nowhere near a black. He's like, why does shopping his hands in the air? If the thing someone's going for is a chop.

You can kind of guess.

He's like, he's like, he's like, and he could really hurt people that way.

“But generally, he's hitting him with the high.”

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's hilarious to picture like in your brain. Right.

I just always have to remind myself, because he's a giant in the world.

But he is a five foot three man. He's a tiny little dude out here, karate chop. Incredible. We're in a karate game. He's a five foot three man who believes he's a martial artist.

My god. But all right. But when he was good at was playing pool. Apparently, he was pretty good at playing pool. And so we hired this pro player, oh, Willy Masconey,

and paid him $175,000 a year to hang out as his house and teach him how to play pool. Okay. That's cool. That's cool.

Yeah. And then, hold on. [laughs] Hold on.

“Then, he would go to pool halls and hustle people with him.”

And then, when people got mad, he'd have his bodyguards beat the shit out of him.

[laughs] He's really, he's really scraping all of the fun you can have when you're rich enough for bodyguards. Yeah. I just have a lossy of dangerous men that have to beat people up if I'm a dick. I am surprisingly more rich guys don't do this to be honest.

Honestly, I'm going to be honest, man. If I ever get that kind of money, like walking around with bodyguards money, that's money. Yeah. That's all I'm going to do.

Yeah. That's all I'm going to do. So, he would throw crazy parties and then disappear. He's a weird dude right now. He's like, he throw these crazy parties and then disappear the whole night.

And then reappear right as people are about to leave. And he would get super mad if the girls wanted to go home. Super mad. Massive, I'm not surprised.

He has got, he hates to be alone first of all.

And he establishes this. But he also just has like specifically when women want to leave. He is, he gets upset every single time. Not cool with him. Yeah.

Phil, this is from a meal, Marcus again, from breaking down the wall of sound. Phil would get very upset with women walked out on him. Marcus says he would rant and rave. You'll never work again. I'll get you fired, whatever.

But then again, you'd have this thing at parties where you might have 20 girls each. And each one would try to last out the other to see who was going to stay the night with him. But the feeling I got was that Phil sort of realized that most of these people were around for the external rather than the internal. And he would have preferred that he wasn't like for the limousines and the money and all that. He would have really liked to be loved for himself.

And they were girls who liked him for that.

“I think the problem was that Phil could never believe that these people could love him for who he was.”

I'm not surprised he had trouble believing people could love him for who he was because he's a dick. Yeah. I mean, it's sad, but I'm also, yeah. Yeah, it is very strong, like, like, like, yeah, do you? Of course, no, it's like stifler, right?

It's like stifler, like yeah, of course, no one likes you. You're trying to prick to everyone, man. Yeah. Like, yeah, you're not liked. You know, who won't get mad when you try and leave their parties in the middle of the night?

These, these sponsors. I was playing with pay money. I'm gonna say me because my parties don't go that late. So, but the party of capitalism, that one keeps on going forever. Yeah.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the on-purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Khan. The singer songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit, Stix season. I'm one of the biggest voices in music today. Noah opens up about the pressure that followed his rapid success.

His struggles with mental health and body image and the fear of starting again after such a defining moment in his career. It's easy to look at somebody and be like, "Your life must be so sick." Man, you have no f*** glue. Talk about the mental illness stuff. It used to be this thing that I was ashamed of.

I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically or in pain in some emotional way in my life to create good music. If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm good." Someone says that I suck. I suck.

[laughs] Getting the talk about this is not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever. Listen to on-purpose Rej Shetty on the iHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, I'm Noah Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called "Playing Along" is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode is a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Lavey, Mavis Staples, Remi Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name.

And this season, I sat down with Olesia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more.

Check out my new episode with Josh Grovin.

You're here to the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom and that. That's so funny. ♪ Shall we stay with me each night ♪ ♪ Each morning ♪

♪ Say you love me ♪ ♪ You know how ♪ So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to playing along on the iHard Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, former Bachelor Star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.

The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth.

“You doctored this particular task twice in silence, correct?”

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Break a recipe and I could imagine it. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is LoveTrap.

Laura. Scottsdale Police.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at a Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until Justice has served in Arizona. Listen to LoveTrap podcast on the iHard Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Why hasn't a woman formally participated in a Formula One race weekend in over a decade?

“Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age?”

What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He's still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Waga Get-in change the paddock forever? That day is just seared into my memory. I'm culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman.

And these are just a few of the questions I'm tackling on no grip. A Formula One culture podcast that dives into the under explored pockets of the sport. Can each episode a different guest and I will go deeper into the wacky mishaps scandals and sagas, both on the track and far away from it that have made F1 a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years.

Listen to no grip on the iHard Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Okay. Well, take it away.

Yes. So, it's 1964 the romance toward England with the Beatles. They go, they do actually go to the Beatles to tour with the Beatles. And Phil insists on being there. He is super jealous.

He does not like it. You've got to keep in mind, too. The Beatles are the next evolutionary step in this chain. We went to now producers are and bands are gone.

And Phil Spectre represented the most important version of that.

But it's 1964 and the Beatles are about across over in America. And Phil Spectre is incredibly threatened by them. They have been tearing up the charts and kind of pushing him out very much so. So, when the Ronits are asked to go on tour with the Beatles, he's like, and so he goes to England to supervise.

You know, he has to go over and watch and make sure no one's putting the moves on the old girl. You know, he said, from Ronnie. This is from B. My baby, Ronnie's book. Phil never came out and said it, but I could tell he didn't like the idea

of spending too much time with the Beatles. I don't think his ego could stand the competition. Yeah. The Beatles were leaving to start their first US tour in a few days. And when John asked me if we wanted to fly back with them on the charter jet,

I didn't have the nerve to ask Phil if it was okay. So I made my mom make the suggestion. You know Phil, she told him, it might be good publicity if the girls went back on on the jet with the Beatles. No, he told her, I've already bought their tickets.

And that was all that said. So he tells him, "No, man, I got tickets for you already. You can't fly back on the plane with the Beatles. Are you crazy?" I just got to let my girlfriend get on a fucking plane,

a private plane with a bunch of rock stars. Hell no, that's absolutely an idea. Yeah, hell no.

“So he buys them, he buys them prior commercial flights back, right?”

She says she continues. My mother and they landed the next day at JFK and she says, "My mother and I watched the whole thing on TV. We're amazed at how many kids showed up at the airport, screaming and carrying banners.

But what surprised me even more was something that happened after the plane landed. The jet was on the ground and the camera zoomed in on the door.

That was about to open up to give America its first glimpse of the fab 4.

But when that hatch finally did swing open,

Who do you think was with them?

I almost fainted when I looked at the TV and saw Phil's specter following the Beatles.

I don't know. So he's like, you can't fly back with the Beatles. And then he flies back with the Beatles. Yeah, yeah. So like there's like thousands of people greeting him at the airport

and they're like, and there's Phil's specter and they're like, "That's amazing." Amazing. Amazing. Amazing.

Pettiness. Amazing. That is Tom Pettie right there. Dude, that's amazing. Yeah, that's like a grand level of gickery.

Like it's spectacular. You can't ride with the hottest band that's going on in the world right now. But I can't. But I can't.

“And you have to take a shit on the couch.”

Yeah. So funny. So Ronnie's life keeps like it's more and more confined.

She's starting to get like kind of more trapped by Phil and everything.

And Phil starts working repeatedly at this studio Gold Star. I mentioned it before. It was like the scene of his well of sound. And it's really important. Like it is kind of like a big deal.

It's hate ashberry for the hippie movement. Right. So or or or woodstock. It's it's an important moment in time where a bunch of people come together for us thing that is like significant. And the Gold Star is there.

Gold Star is where the wrecking crew kind of was born. It's where Phil was doing all these hits. And it's a shit hole for the record. But Phil loves it. He turns it into his fortress, right?

He just like like he. No one's allowed to come in unless he says so. He's booking so much tying there like he lives in the studio. And at this studio. He uh.

He is working with Sunny Bono and share Sunny Bono. Side bastard. Sunny Bono. Sunny Bono. We're going to side bastard.

Sunny Bono. Sunny Bono is a big giant dick. And we first of all. Bro he is like the most. First of all.

First of all. I mean the copyright predictions act that he did just a Disney could keep making mouse and stuff in there in there. That sucks, right? But also. How do you go from being Sunny and share like this whole like date. They sang on on on on on on.

Mama's top of songs and stuff. Yeah, they were.

“How do you do that and then become a Republican senator?”

You know, like. That's like the ultimate betrayal of a human being. So. And it is a, yeah, Republican senator. He wasn't.

A Republican sell out senator. Fucker. Yeah, amazing. He was a one. And also the subject of one of my favorite M&M lines.

Sunny Bono. Skies horses and hit and some trees. Oh. I love that. Great.

So Ronnie develops a close relationship with share who became one of the few people that Ronnie could confide in because she is also living. Very similar situation at this time. Sunny and shares about as famous as I continue about as famous as Ronnie and Phil.

Ironic that they would all work together with. Right. Very strange. And it's really interesting, too, because in all of these situations, it shows that the men in these situations who are very dominant to their women also are all subservient

to Phil. Yeah. Sunny Bono bends over for Phil. Like completely like he is. He is absolutely.

Yes. He is. He is. He lets.

“I mean, he, I mean, Phil is the, the God at the time.”

Sunny Bono was nobody. He's a go for. He's a runner at a studio. And Phil treats him like a runner at the studio. Wow.

He's horrible to him. He treats him awfully. Ah, Sidon, this is a really funny story.

When Ronnie first met share, she thought she was a hooker.

She like, she like met share was a hooker. Yeah. She got share was a hooker. She was like, oh, this must be Sunny Bono's hooker. Oh my god.

And she just, she says that. Which is. There's a lot of, there's a lot of. There's a lot of things in these like interviews and books and stuff. And stuff that I've read.

Like I, I, I, I, I love Phil's back. So I've read many books on him. I watch every documentary. I, I love, I love Phil's vector. And I'm so interested by him.

So, uh, when I watch and read all these things, it's insane to see like how open and honest people are about the horrible things that they think. And say out loud. He's so crazy. Why don't you write this in a book?

You wrote that you thought share was a hooker? How do you want that? Say that? That was totally free to shut the book up. It was because I know money.

You want it? No one's going to be like, hey man. Do you ever think share was a hooker? Right. Like you, you just, yeah.

Okay. Incredible. So funny. So anyway, um, so they got a complicated relationship. Sunny and, and Phil.

And it blossoms into this very like subservient relationship. Sunny just does everything that Phil asks. He, he, like, whatever Phil tells him, like, I don't let the girls do this. He's like, okay, and he becomes like an enforcer for share and Ronnie Bennett's relationship in a lot of ways.

It's very, again, he's like getting other people to carry out his like posses...

It's very strange. Give us music. All right.

So Phil has had a killer career, right?

He's had a killer career. Things have been going good for him. The Beatles come to America. Things start to change. He does.

He still has some hits.

“Things are gone good or whatever, but we're about to hit.”

1966. And in 1966, uh, he, he produced River Deep Mountain High for Tina Turner. Yes. And he, to him, he says this was the greatest thing he ever did. It was the ultimate realization of the wall of sound.

It was, if you listen to this song. It is such a phenomenal song. It's phenomenal. It's a cacophony of sound. Yeah.

It is, I mean, it's like, you cannot tell other than Tina's voice. You cannot tell a single thing that is happening in the background. You can kind of hear like a guitar riff in the beginning of Brambrana, but that could be anything, right? It's like the whole sound is so amorphous.

It has no shape.

It has no body, so drenched in reverb.

And it's just noise behind what's going on. It's so brilliant. And so beautiful. It's, yeah. It does rip. And it's very reminiscent of like modern day, like shoe gaze type stuff is like this.

You know, it's got a really cool atmosphere. It's all atmosphere and emotion. Yeah. Um, even notoriously shitty side bastards. So much better.

notoriously shitty side bastard like Turner. Bound. It is a, it is a music industry episode. So we're going to have a lot of side bastards. I just really like the side bastard sound effect.

Yeah, we may have heard of it myself as well. By the way, yeah.

“I think it should make it into the regular rotation.”

I do. I have a sound board. I need it. There we go. It's so good.

It's so good. Um, yeah. So notoriously shitty side bastard like Turner. Yeah. Reveared Phil.

Let him be in control. You're talking about a fan. I can the eye gets, right? Featuring Tina Turner. Like we're talking, I guess the control freak of control freaks.

Why are you submissive to this weird little guy? Sophie in the beginning, we asked. We asked this question. Yeah. Why do we allow people to be horrible and shitty?

And just because they can make a really cool, it's the same, that it's the same world. Why? Why do those people allow this other person who's also shitty to, to, to get away with being in control of them?

Because the music industry, because you can write a good song, you're, you can get away with murder sort of, not, not completely. Spoiler alert. And he, like, do people, like, he is, he's literally wearing eyes.

Yeah, he's, he's, that's probably wearing wings. He's simply wearing wings. Nobody is confused about this. And he is wearing platforms shoes. He has five foot three is wearing platforms shoes

that barely make him five, five, which is still really, really short. Yeah. Yeah. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

Wrong with it. But it clearly is fucking with him. I mean, this is what, this is what pops up. I searched Phil Spectre in 1966. Okay.

Look at that. Wow. Oh, no. The glasses, the sightways diamond glasses. So these are amazing.

This is a little early for this. Those glasses are honestly with. But, but I want to share this picture real quick.

“Uh, because this is also very important.”

Yeah. Robert. Oh, god. I, I've been waiting to show you this picture. Okay.

Okay. This is so good. All right. So, uh, this is Phil Spectre in 1966. Around this same time.

Around the same time. Yeah. This is him with his, his security guard George Brand. Oh, my god. So they're, they're sitting in at some sort of old-timey van.

And George Brand, like, Phil is in George Brand's lap. He looks like a child. He's like a child. He's like a child.

Because Phil's holding a gun and pointing it out the window. And he's got, like, a fucking, like, uh, What's that kind of guy? It looks like a laboratory or like a, like, like a, like, a dog, like, What a poodle, like a poodle hair situation.

Go on. He's like a, yeah. It looks like a poodle hair situation. He's gone. He's gone.

And his bodyguard has his arm around. And it's like holding him in place. And his hand is like his biggest both of Phil's hands put together. Like one hand.

So incredible. I cannot believe that he took that picture and was like,

Yeah. Yeah. Print that shit. Oh, great. It's so fun.

He's, he's a tiny person. That really gives you, like, a perspective.

Yeah.

He looks like they look very silly posing with a gun. George Brand, this is George Brand. And George Brand is a kind of big.

“He's like six one or something like that.”

But he's not, that's not huge. That's me. I'm six foot. So he's like, my size, but he looks like a giant compared to him. And it's like he's holding his child.

He's like, I turn her in sunny bowing to him in submission. That's crazy. Yes. Yeah. That's crazy.

But that's the power of a hit maker. Yeah. That's the power of a hit maker. Yeah. Yeah.

It's pretty cool. It's like kind of cool. Somebody who's controlling the industry and that kind of power. Yeah. But as I said,

this, this, this, well, I didn't say it, but spoiler alert. It doesn't last long. Okay. He produces river deep mountain dot high for Tina Turner. And he spends enormous amount of money.

This is signed to his level to the fill list records. And he spends a ton of money, right? Motional energy, just everything time. He puts everything. This is his magnal opus.

This is his, his, his thing, right?

“He, he thinks the best thing he's ever done.”

Massive orchestration. Intricate layering.

One of the most powerful vocal performances ever recorded.

Specter later described it as the greatest work of his career. Yeah. In the United States, it failed miserably. That's so wild. It fails horribly.

Now. Yeah. Specter says Specter's belief. And a lot of people's belief. I've heard a lot of opinions on this.

But the belief is generally. It was too white for black audiences and too black for white audiences. It was that rare moment of in between. It had orchestration and but it had Tina, but it had. Wall of sound mud, but it had Tina.

But you know, it's like, it's like, it was so confusing for DJs at the time. Because you either played race records or you played white records. And that was it. Right. Like it was like, where does this fall?

We don't know. Phil Specter is taking this to a logical. Like conclusion, but it just doesn't hit. Yeah. Um.

“This, it did, it did have success in the United Kingdom.”

And the UK, it did chart. Uh, but the domestic rejection just devastated him. For a man who had coated control with emotional safety, the failure felt deeply personal. If he could not guarantee success through perfection, then his entire identity as a producer was suddenly unstable. Right.

So this, this breaks him. Like this is the breaking point. It, he, he takes out a full page ad in a newspaper in America saying Benedict Arnold was right. Whoa. Yeah.

Because England liked it in America didn't. Whoa. That's nuts. That's a crazy place for your head to go. Like in the fun.

And then it turned off. And then it turned off. Yeah. Okay, bro. So after that, everybody's like,

Okay. Well, we're not spinning this record anymore. This dude just called us all traders. Like he said, he said, England should have won the war. But yeah, that's a little much.

So Phil's value for with River Deep Mountain High calls him to pull out of music completely. He announced his retirement from music and spent today's wandering around his mansion to spawn it in depressed. This is a common theme with Phil as well. He spends a lot of time wandering around his mansion to breast.

Well, Dennis Hopper was actually chronicling the process of making River Deep Mountain High. He was doing like a documentary film on the process. And because he'd been around, he saw this in how it reacted.

Phil, he offers Phil a job playing a drug dealer and easy rider, which is an amazing, amazing film, amazing role.

Yeah. They said literally they're like, yeah, we get him. We let him be an easy rider. The story I read framed it is like, oh, yeah, you know, like, it'll pick him up. But it'll make him feel better.

Yeah. But then when you actually hear like the Dennis Hopper interview, he's like, Yeah, he had a role's voice and he would let us use it. He would put him in the movie. We couldn't afford it otherwise.

It was easy rider. You know? Yeah. We're making money. We're making money.

So other than that, other than his time on easy rider, he's been most of his time playing pool. And often hanging with his friend Lenny Bruce. Are you familiar with that? Oh, my god. Yeah.

Of course. Lenny Bruce was the inspired George Carlin. He's kind of the earth. He's like the first. Yeah.

He's like the first shot.

Somebody would say the first really good standup comedian. Yeah. Yeah. And big dude. Yeah.

Phil loves him. Right. Phil just idolizes him. He thinks he's amazing. He's Phil Spectre.

So he's big enough to just be like, yeah, just hanging. Lenny Bruce is, by the way, in his personal life, a massive piece of shit. Yeah. Yeah. Not a nice and horrible drug problems.

Yeah. Yes. Horrible drug problems. Horrible everything problems. Yeah.

Lenny Bruce is a mess. And for those of you who are not familiar with Lenny Bruce. If you look it up, you're going to be a lot.

There's a lot of inward Lenny Bruce ramps.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot a lot.

“They also specialize in fictionalized romanticism.”

And that marvelous Mrs. Mezel show that was on Amazon. They make him a character in that. They make him like this. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I love his right. I love his influence on like comedy from a free noist beach standpoint, which he really did to stand and pay for. Yes. But they also whitewash a lot of like he was, he was a better mother fucker among comedians and standing among comedians are almost all messy. There's a lot of stories about him showing up at Phil's house and like, and like, you know,

Phil having to like basically kick him out and be like and apologize to his guests. Phil. Phil, the guy who held people a gunpoint wave guns around had to be like, yeah, guys. Sorry, Lenny's messy. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, listen, Lenny's messy guys.

You know, my friend doesn't always use the right terms.

He can be kind of inappropriate. All right. So the two men bonded over a shared sense of being misunderstood. Outsideers navigating industries that simultaneous rewarded and rejected them, which is extremely. They're both kind of outsiders while also being like praised and glorified.

Also kind of in the top of their careers or kind of at the top of their feet. Very strange to say. Bruce admired specters musical intensity and specter appeared to be drawn to Bruce's defiant rejection of authority in social norms. Uh, he quotes Lenny Bruce all the time. He'll be a Lenny Bruce as, you know, it's like always how he goes.

He loves Lenny Bruce. He loves Lenny Bruce so much. That Phil keeps a blown up image of Lenny Bruce above his bed. What? What?

What? What? Ronnie. Ronnie. Okay.

So where is that we got done?

Okay. The same as guys who like had wasted together. Okay. Yeah. That is.

Okay. Like when I wrote this, I literally had this like funny image of me having me having a Robert. Evan's above my bed and like your shirtless. You know, like, just like, like, just like, you know, over the shoulder kind of look.

“You know, just like, I just, I, I was like, yes, dude, that's how I want my relationship with Robert to be.”

Like, like, like, cause I still want to be Bruce relations. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm going to. So, so specters get, he gets his belief that he's existing outside of conventional society by hanging out with Lenny.

Bruce, it validates that for him, you know. And that society just didn't understand him. Yeah. This is why River Deep Mountain High failed. It's just like Lenny Bruce, right?

It's like, yeah. Society just doesn't get how important this is. But then, but then Lenny, Lenny dies. But then Lenny Bruce does die, doesn't he? Yeah.

In fact, long life expectancy is a Lenny Bruce type. On August 3rd, 1966, Lenny was found on the floor of his bathroom with the pants around his ankles and a needle stuck. And his arm. Yeah. Yeah.

That's how that goes, right? Yeah. He died of an overdose. He died of an overdose on the toilet, which is very Elvis and sad. Yeah.

Very, I mean, very Lenny Bruce. Yeah. Very Lenny Bruce. Yeah. Lenny Bruce was the original.

Lenny Bruce, the OG, died on the toilet. Yeah. So, Phil was devastated to lose his friend. He's so sad about this. And again, mobs around the house for days, you know.

“But a few days later, a cop shows up at his, I think it was his lawyer's house.”

It was either his friend or a lawyer. But cop shows up and says, hey, I got, I got these pictures of the Lenny Bruce from the crime scene. Either you buy him or I'm selling them to the tabloids, right? And so Phil spent five K of his own money. He purchased him, spent five thousand dollars of his own money, which at that time is like a house.

Yeah, it's a lot of money. Yeah. You know, spent five thousand dollars of his own money to purchase those photos to keep them out of the press. He also paid for Lenny's funeral. And then after Lenny's funeral, he locked himself in his house for weeks on end.

And didn't talk to anybody because he was so depressed that the loss of his friend. That's one of those real. It's weird that he is capable of deeply caring for someone and it's Lenny Bruce. Yeah. Exactly.

That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's a really weird moment because you're like, yeah, let's sad.

But also, this is the first really human emotion we've gotten.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. But also.

Yeah. Back to Ronnie, right? Ronnie's mom finally is like, you guys aren't really married. Right. Right.

She's like, you're not living with somebody if you're not married to them.

She's like, this is your mind over the whole thing. Yeah.

“She's like, you guys need to get married, right?”

So Phil, he, you know, he still lies to where he tries like life. But she comes out to California and she's like, no, don't believe you. And so she takes Ronnie and makes her move back to New York. Which is again, very crazy. This is like an era where being 21 is actually what's considered an adult at this time.

I mean, it kind of still is a little bit. But in the manner of like, if you were under 21, you could actually be told what to do by your parents. Right. Yeah, you're not. And also personal money and also social shit.

Anyway. So she forced her to move back to New York. Ronnie hates being in New York. She hates being around her relatives. She feels like they're all like gold diggers kind of.

And she wants to get back to California. So Phil comes and rescues her and takes her back to California. But as soon as they get back, he gets right back into being jealous. And it wasn't until she threatens to leave him that he finally does commit to marrying her. Aw.

They're planning to be married on April 14th. But MLK was shot and killed on April 4th. And Phil goes into a despair. It's super common to feel any time somebody famous dies that he has had any association with. At all, which does happen a lot.

Yeah, you know, 60s and all. He falls into like these horrible depressive states where you just like mobs around. He was just playing MLK speeches on repeat in his house at like top volume, which I'm sure. Yeah, I'm killer stereo. Right. He's just lasting MLK speeches at like top volume in his house and like crying in the living room.

It's like super crazy.

“Which brings me to a point about Phil that I think is super interesting for all of Phil's flaws.”

Racism is never, not once, not ever.

He is always, when we look at these relationships, it's like, it is always black girl groups that he's like, you know, doing this abuse to. But black is never really like a consideration. It is women that is the consideration that he has an issue with women. Right. For as awful as he is, he's never awful about black people. He loves black people. In fact, Ronnie thinks that he wished he was black.

Yeah. And he, he, he, he cried. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So he eventually snaps out of his depression and they return to their wedding plans. They get married on the 14th. The marriage itself was performed at a justice of a peace ceremony. They know for a millionaire record producer.

He doesn't, he half asses the hell out of it. He does justice to the peace. As someone who's done a couple of justice to the peace marriages, you know, I get it. Sometimes you just want to get it over with, you know, I got stuff to do today. Yeah.

I've done one. His chauffeur's brother was his best man. After the wedding, they celebrated by going to a concert. And then Phil sent Ronnie and her mother home with his driver. And went to visit his mother out of guilt of not having told her about the wedding.

So he feels bad. He's like, oh, actually. I can't believe I didn't tell my mom about the wedding. I should have told her about this. So I probably should have done them.

So he goes right and Ronnie and her mom go back to the house. Right. Ronnie goes home. She puts on some lingerie. She gets wedding night.

Where are we wedding night? You know, she gets all up. And she waits and waits and waits and waits. How is go by? Phil does not come back.

And she's like, okay. Well, the hell.

Finally, he returns home late as hell.

Drunk as hell. And he's mad. He walked into our room. She says, this is from her book, "Be My Baby." Quote.

When he walked into our room, I could tell the last thing he was interested in was my body.

“Remember, she's wearing lingerie and everything.”

He was a completely different person than the man I had sat with had the concert three hours earlier. You bitch, he shouted. I couldn't believe how mad he looked and worse than I'd ever seen him. He was raving so loud that the veins in his neck were bulging blue. I know your game Veronica, he shouted.

You just want my money. That is it, isn't it? I was so scared that I got up and ran out of the bedroom and ended the hallway. If Phil was going to kill me, I wanted him to do it where he might be witnesses. What's wrong, Phil?

What did your mother tell you? The truth, he painted, that this whole marriage is about one thing, my money. He was so mad he could barely catch his breath now. Ronnie and her mother locked themselves inside a bathroom for hours hiding from Phil's rage and unpredictable behavior.

Quote.

My mother and I had been living on that pale blue carpet for over an hour when Phil finally

warmed himself out and went to bed. After that, we got kind of drowsy ourselves. I was just drifting off to sleep when I heard my mother sigh. Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie, what did you marry? I moved in close to her and I started to cry.

Isn't this something I sniffed? Here it is, my wedding night and I'm spending it curled up on the bathroom floor with my mother. Gee. Wow.

It is her wedding day, her wedding day, her wedding day.

He goes to a show and then he comes home drunk, drops her off, comes home drunk, screaming

and threatening her.

“An hour, he spent an hour banging on the bathroom door, threatening her screaming at her.”

With her and her mom just in the bathroom, cut it up on the floor, crying. And that, extremely happy moment. (laughs) Is where we will leave this episode. That's part two, baby.

Part two, dumb. I am greasy will, you can find me all over the internet. I have lots of things for sale if you ever want to buy them. And it is the same thing. You're supporting people's livelihoods.

That's right. That's right. Yes, my assistants, they're drug free. So you know when I pay them money, it's not going to drugs. That is super courteous.

That's the best you can say about anybody. That's right.

Whereas I take all of my profits and hand them out underneath the bridge.

So that people can buy drugs. You might as well pay me in heroin. You know, just pay me in heroin. Just pay me in heroin. Just pay like strangers.

I give money to in heroin. (laughs) You are Robert Evans. I am a good friend and found it. I write okay on the internet.

Sure. And also here. And I'm on Netflix.

“You might be watching this on the Netflix.”

But this is the closest I will ever come to success. You could watch this in another one of Netflix's classic hit shows. Like whatever movie is out now. That one about that pervert guy that kidnaps people

and keeps them in their basement.

Sure. You could be watching the pervert next. Wow. Behind the bastards is a production of cool zone media. For more from cool zone media, visit our website,

coolzonemedia.com. Our check us out on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes between the bastards are now streaming on Netflix

dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me on Netflix. You don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel.

YouTube.com/atbehind the bastard. We love about 40% of you. Statistically speaking. [Music] [Music]

[Music] Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events

“that really ever happened in New York City, politics.”

[Music] A scream. Get down. Get down. Those are shots.

A tragedy that's now forgotten. End of mystery. That may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex. Listen to Rochette.

Murder at City Hall on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. [Music] Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no grip.

A new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F1. Including the story of the woman who last participated

in a Formula One race weekend, the recent uptick in F1 romance novels. And plenty of mishab scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years.

Listen to no grip on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the on-purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Khan. The singer songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit

sticks season on one of the biggest voices in music today. Talk about the mental illness stuff. He used to be the sting that I was ashamed of. Getting the talk about this is not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever.

Listen to on-purpose, with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Noah Jones, and my podcast playing along is back

with more of my favorite musicians. Check out my newest episode with Josh Grobin. You even know it's the fans of it, that's for me. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom of that. That's so funny.

♪ Shall we stay with me tonight ♪ ♪ Each morning ♪ Listen to Noah Jones is playing along on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

Transcript

[MUSIC]

>> You really wanted to show that.

He's a kid.

In walks, Ronnie Bennett.

Unfortunately, I would assume it's an incredibly irritating, tick-tock thing ...

You want to, you want to produce my album?

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at AmeriCorps Accountia's Laura Owens has...

I guess it was the only thing he could get the tongue,

Yeah, when you jam it into someone's body, the slide doesn't, you know, get o...

You can kind of guess.

Check out my new episode with Josh Grovin.

Who do you think was with them?

It's very, again, he's like getting other people to carry out his like posses...

Yeah.

There's a lot of inward Lenny Bruce ramps.

She's like, you're not living with somebody if you're not married to them.

It is her wedding day, her wedding day, her wedding day.

Compare and Explore

More Transcripts You Might Like

Why AI Needs Ethics First | Nekia Nichelle & Shekhar Natarajan | Live at CES 2026

Success, Spirituality & Staying Real | Shilpa Shetty Kundra x Shekhar Natarajan

Will.i.am on AI, Data Ownership & The Future of Nations | Shekhar Natarajan Podcast

AI Needs Intention, Not Fear | will.i.am on Leadership, Creativity & the Future of Artificial Intelligence

Learning Resources Inc. v. Trump

Can AI Help Us Live 250 Years? The Future of Human Longevity