482| "Jimmy" Gracey

Hello, and welcome to Best Case Worst Case.

“My name is Morino Kahnel, and I'm your host today.”

I'm a 25-year veteran of the FBI and a 20-year veteran of the evidence response team. And with me today is-- Jim Clementi, retired FBI profile of former New York City, prosecuted right producer of criminal minds and blue beer on audible. And today, Morino, well, we have a very sad case to talk about.

Terrible. Yeah, well, when kids travel, students, college students, high school students, spring break, people go far and wide. And there's been a number of unfortunate cases, like Natalie Holloway, where, unfortunately, kids don't come home.

And it seems like it's happened again.

So James, Jimmy Gracie, who hails from just outside Chicago, and went to my understanding is from-- because I'm from Chicago and my Facebook page has been blowing up, asking for prayers for this young man. And we've all been praying intently.

And he went to St. Ignatius High School. He was there with a bunch of his buddies. They went out to a club.

“He college, though, from your college buddies, right?”

Correct. Yes, his buddies from Alabama.

And he just was never seen again.

The last time he was seen was with an American gal, who, you know, his buddies all wanted to leave and go back to the Airbnb. And he wanted to stay or hang with this girl a little bit longer. So it's just, you know, a parent's absolute worst nightmare. Yeah, so I mean, in cases like this, I was asked to go on the news

and consult about it, but I didn't have any information. You know, there was nothing to really go by. But in cases like this, we don't. We typically see young people who are out at a club or bars with their friends and they separate.

And that's the worst thing they can do.

“It's really important, especially when you're in a foreign country.”

But even when you're at your school and you're in familiar surroundings, it's very important that when you go out with a group of friends, you stay with the group of friends and you don't separate off. Because unfortunately, unfortunate things can happen. And when they're at clubs, they're typically drinking.

They're, you know, I'm sure that there are also recreational drugs. I'm not saying in this case, but a lot of times with college students. And sometimes there is foul play. Sometimes there are people out there who are actually looking for. Somebody who's vulnerable, somebody who's drinking,

somebody who they can drug and then take advantage of. Right. I don't think drugs were at all in play with this particular case. I do know that he was wearing a gold cross with rhinestones in it. And I'm wondering, you know, you just don't know what catches the eye of any type of

offender. They did find his wallet floating in the water. So we're going to be looking to see if the contents of that wallet are intact. Or if the money was taken in credit cards were taken. They also found his phone.

So the thing about finding his phone is they're going to be able, if they haven't already, to identify who that female is because she probably had her phone with her. So they'll look to see who is, you know, if those phones are traveling together. And they will have traveled together. They've got the FBI league at Barcelona has obviously been heavily involved.

And it was this afternoon that just a little while ago, my understanding is that the dive team found his body. And it's just too much, 20 years old, any age, but it's just too much. So they confirmed that it's him. The family did say that's, and this is breaking right before we started recording because I was

hoping when I saw something was breaking. I was hoping they found him and he was okay and he was with that girl. That was my hope. That whoever this girl was, that's where he was. It said that Spanish police confirmed that a body recovered from the C.

At Samarostro Beach in Barcelona is that of 20-year-old missing university of Alabama

a nearby nightclub, they're suggesting that the incident was a tragic accident. You know, I mean, a tragic accident, I mean it's possible, you know, that he left his phone and wallet on the beach and went into the water, but, you know, maybe there was a riptide, maybe you didn't swim that well, I don't know, I mean, or maybe he had a little alcohol in him and, you know, wasn't able to handle whatever the C gave him.

“But I hope it wasn't foul play, but still, it's just, this is why you need to stick together”

with your friends. You can't split up, I mean, you know, that episode of Criminal Minds,

I wrote Target Rich, right, about about the first few months of college, where it attracts

offenders because they know that there's going to be young people who are away from supervision, parental supervision for the first time in their life, they're out there, you know, having fun, a lot of a good clean fun, but having fun and, and if they can sort of latch onto a stray, like happened in, you know, many times in many places, yeah, University of Virginia, that terrible case, where this one girl wanders off on her own and, unfortunately, she became the victim of a

“serial killer, but I think there was another killer who was out there planning on taking her,”

but this other guy got her first and it's just, these offenders will go where there are victims

and vulnerable victims and, yeah, they're looking for a rich hunting ground. Yeah, exactly. And I hope that people understand that this is, this is not just a tragic accident, I mean, there are, there are things that you can do that can help prevent this kind of thing and the buddy system is a really important part of that. Oh, it's a valuable tool. Yeah, especially when you're in another country, but it's just not the same. I mean, you don't know all the

coat on, you don't know where the good and bad places to go are, you don't, you may stand out because you're American, for example, and that may make you more of a target and it can make you much more vulnerable. So I'm not blaming other people. I'm saying, please listen, please avoid this, everyone who's in college, when you're going out, I don't care if it's to the place down the block from your school or all the way around the world, stay together, make a buddy system,

make a pact that you will not leave. We did that as young women in Chicago all the time. We would stay together and you can ask my friends. They would be like, like, one, my friend Carolyn, she was trying to take off with this guy. Now, our dad was a Chicago police lieutenant who was a very good friend of mine and our family and he made me promise I would keep an eye on her, which I was like, okay, sure. Well, then she takes off with some guy and she thought it was a big joke. I was

literally chasing her on foot, getting her away from them and they thought I was just crazy, but I'm like, don't you understand the importance of a buddy system? This is the reason for the role. It is the reason for the rule and also how many times I'm sure, like me, you've been asked to brief up these young people before they go away to college or if they're going on some long

trip somewhere and I always say the same things, just because you can do something doesn't mean you

“should. You need to air on the side of caution and you can see the the tempered eye role, like they”

think I'm just salty and nuts. I know, but it's useful. I just go back to the Natalie Holloway case. I mean, she was out with her friends. Unfortunately, she was drinking. She may have been drugged. I don't know, but she was not coherent and yet she was alone and she gets into the car with this guy and he had two of his friends there and nobody has ever seen her alive since and that is it's just such a tragedy that can be at least minimized if not avoided completely if you stick

together if you have a plan. There's no question that, you know, when you're out and you're

that aren't the best. That's why the pact needs to be made before you go out before you start

drinking, before you start partying, before you start meeting new people and wanting to have new adventures. If you can't do it together, you shouldn't be doing it. At least, it gives you the opportunity to have somebody who can alert authorities, who can call 911 or call the police or yell and scream for help, but if something bad happens. At least, at least make the bad actors pause. Like, do I really want to take on all three of these or should I just find, you know, sometimes it's

sometimes you don't have to outrun everybody, you just have to outrun one person. You know, when it sounds terrible, but to your point about the water and maybe not being a great swimmer or anything, my thought is this, being a former lifeguard, water safety instructor, well, that's

“an open water, yep. I remember and I think I shared this with you the night that had happened.”

When we were doing colonial parkway murders and Lonnie and I went to the river, just to essentially just to talk for a few minutes or whatever. Well, we go to the side of the river and I'm looking out and she was talking it and she's like, did you hear me? And I was like, wait a minute, look at that water. I mean, I could not believe how strong that current was, how fast it was going and

you know what, you wouldn't be able to see that at night. You know, I've always,

always been a big proponent for, forget the body system. When you're swimming in open water at night, there need to be four or five of you, two on the shore if two are going in because it is unbelievably dangerous. Also, to me, the squeeze isn't worth the juice or the juice isn't worth the squeeze because if people have to go in to dark water, late at night to try to help you, everybody screwed at that point. You know, I understand the lure of wanting to go in the water

late at night, but you know, my, my sense right now with that last line that just on the broken news that it was a terrible accident, he probably went in the water and she was right there

and she may have told the police what happened and she couldn't help them because it, well, that's

“a thing. I mean, that's why I mentioned riptides earlier and there is a certain way that you”

have to swim sort of across a riptide because if you try to fight it, you're just going to wear yourself out and, and then you don't think is to get your hips up onto the surface of the water, which is not easy to do unless you're trained. Right. Well, and if the, the waves, I mean, because the surface becomes very tumultuous and it's really hard. Look, I hated, I hated going out into, you know, the surf and the ocean where where there were waves. To me, it just was so dangerous,

because I was a water safety instructor, I was a lifeguard and I knew the risks there, but, you know, when you're in tranquil waters where there is no tide, you know, no riptides, no waves coming in. And you can see it's a different thing. Yeah. I, yeah, I don't know, you know, I obviously at night you may not be able to see it, but I mean, I've certainly been in bays

“where it's just complete glass, you know. In fact, I remember once, I think it was in,”

it was in either Bermuda or St. Thomas where I'm swimming and I looked down and the water was so clear that I felt, I got fear of heights. I thought I was going to fall down all the way to the bottom, because I felt like I was suspended above, you know, the bottom of the ocean. And I literally had this because it just didn't seem like there was anything holding me up. So, but the fact is that that there are, and another thing that happened when I was there, like my friend and I, my friend's

a dare devil and he jumped off this, you know, he had me climb up with him on this huge sort of coral reef thing, jutting out of the water. And when we got up there, he said, oh, by the way, the only way down is diving. And you know, you have to time it with the wave and all that. Oh, my god. I was like, oh my god, exactly. They're about jumping. I don't like diving and don't know the waters. Well, you could see, you could, I mean, it's crystal clear, but the fact is that when I dove in,

I came up under a shelf of coral. So, where I thought there was going to be air, there was coral, and I just panicked, and I had to kind of claw my way around it and get up for air. And I did, I did not go in the water for about 20 years after that. Yeah, I mean, I was like,

for the air force. I mean, you know, that's the kind of guy he is a daredle. So, anyway,

the point is, it's dangerous. There's so many deaths associated with bodies of water and young people drinking. And it's just, I just think a lot of these could be avoided if people just stuck

“together. If people just made a plan, and I think school should be teaching this. I think they should”

not allow people, you know, their students who are going overseas, especially to be, you know, left alone. And, and somebody new, being at least 20 years old. And somebody new does not count. He's 20 years old. He's not a child. I know that, but what are you saying that he should be left alone? They should let him alone? Yes. I mean, I agree with making young people aware of this type of thing and training and stuff like that, but he's, he's an adult. I mean, yeah, but more in,

I just, it doesn't matter. I mean, he's a young adult and he's an environment that he doesn't know. And I just think there should be, there should be rules. There are rules. I'm certain there are rules when people go away and a school trip. And I think this should be one of them. You know, Jim, nothing's better than home cooking. And Hello Fresh makes it really easy to do more of it with recipes that feel good and taste delicious night after night. Yeah, I agree. I love cooking at home

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“and shopping. You have everything you need to make these great meals. I love having family and friends”

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I think this was a pleasure trip like wherever they were they just went to Barcelona for a few days or

something. The bottom line in is this is an absolute unbelievable tragedy for this family.

And I don't want to blame. I don't want to blame him. I mean, I'm not blaming him. I'm saying. I'm trying to let me just talk. Okay. I don't want to blame him. I just do want to let other people know that there are things we can do when we travel. All of us to try to make everything safer. I mean, I've been in situations that I'm lucky. I got out of many, many times and I'm sure you have too. We're just blessed. I don't know what to say other than I am absolutely heartbroken

for this family, for his friends, for his friends that are there with him, his friends at home, his friends at Alabama, his friends at St. Ignatius. I mean, many, many communities right now are just just heartbroken as a result of this terrible news. That's all. Yeah, absolutely. And hopefully,

can turn into a disaster if you don't take precautionary steps. It's just very, very sad.

But speaking of travel, I am traveling. As you might notice, I am not in my normal focal booth. I like it though. Yeah, I'm actually in Austin, Texas right now and I'll be continuing traveling east after this and I'll be, I'll be doing future episodes on the road with my Starlink Mini. And hopefully, sometimes we'll record in some unusual locations. I mean, I'm hoping

“I get service everywhere, but you know, who knows, we'll see. Have you seen any family yet?”

Yeah, I just did. I mean, we have, we have a whole new generation sprouting up of Clementis. Wow. There are, there are, I mean, just upstairs. Wait, one, two, three, seven great nieces and nephews, just upstairs right now. And there are more come. Wow. That's awesome. It's crazy. And three of them were born. No, four of them were born in the last year. Oh, I love it. It's crazy. You're family's big enough, like you know, well, to have all these babies

is such a blessing. Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, it is crazy. It's great. And what's going to be really cool is when all these kids kind of grow up together. And, you know, they're all, they're all pretty, pretty special kids. So I'm very excited. Yeah, I know your nieces and nephews, they're very, they're wonderful people then. Yeah, and they're all hard chargers. They're all doing things. Hard workers. Yes, definitely. And smart, every single one I've ever met.

It's crazy. Yeah, there are lots more than art generation. I don't know about that. But anyway, it's been, you know, it's been a great drive across country, you know, I think I put in these. I think it was 1400 miles or something like that so far. Well, but I still have a few thousand to go. Where's the big event over here? Oh, it's here. Yeah, on the weekend. And then, and then I'm going to have a yeast and see my sisters and then a bunch of friends along the way. And,

and then I have, at some point, I have to decide to turn around and start head back west.

So good for you. You deserve it. It's incredible. You know, nothing can charge your battery

while simultaneously draining it. And, you know, spending a couple of weeks with family, right? Yeah, and that's literally and figuratively. Yes. I'm driving an electric vehicle, which is it's fun,

“but it's also a challenge, you know? Yes. It's also a challenge. You have that app where you have to”

figure out where you can charge it and how long your engine. Yeah, what the thing is, I got spoiled with my car, which has a perfect, an app that lays out everything, you know, and tells you everywhere, and tells you how fast it'll charge, but now the app that I have to use, it doesn't give you all those details. And so you have to, like, click on every little dot and try to figure out. Why is it going backwards? It's a different company and it just not as advanced. That's all.

Oh, you should have stuck with the first one. Well, wish I could have, but I'm actually using the first one

to give me locations, and then I check it on the second one. And that's where I have to, you know, click on all the details, and then it's just, I'm finding, I'm finding, I'm working out the box.

“That's what I'm doing. Okay. All right. Well, have a great trip. Thank you. And I hope everything's”

going well on the West Coast with you guys. I know it's hot there. It's nice and cool here. I don't know. I went through Arizona. There was a heat advisory. I know there are triple digits,

man. Yeah. And I think I heard on the news that they're expecting, you know, to be over 100,

and they're expecting it to be the highest temperature recorded in the country during the winter. Well, that sounds like something. Yeah. Well, luckily, I got through that area before it happened. What's crazy, another thing that I discovered that I didn't realize is just the elevation of the sort of desert plateau when you're in Arizona and New Mexico. You know, you're up.

“I went through the continental divide, and I can't remember it was like 4,300 feet in elevation.”

Wow. Like, but it's just all flat. And then you see mountains in the distance. And you're like, how could this be at 4,300? But it's literally a plateau that is massive. You know, you drive for hours and hours. And the road is flat, but your 4,300 feet I. Yeah. Those flat plateaues, I had a good friend, who was a scientist of some sort. And he talked about, we could tell how high we were, what our elevation was, by where the conifers started and stopped because of their because they

only grow in certain elevations or something. It was, he was just so smart. I always wanted to,

and they're like, who do you want to drive with? And I'm like, Dave, guys, get my, we'll drive together, just because he knows about conifers. He knows about everything. You would just drive along, and it would be like a science class, the whole time. It was great. It's one of the things that Ms. Most about the bureaus, just all the really smart people that you had hanging around, you know? Yeah. I, what one of the things that I've done that I did in last couple of days was

we listened to after the fall. The FBI is not a level of investigation. That was a project we did at

“actually productions. And I think it's the most important work that we did period hands down,”

and it tracks what the FBI did before and after the fall of the, of the 20 hours. And all the guys from, from Alice of Font to Mary Galligan to Steve Bongoard, all these major players in the 9/11 investigation and leading up to 9/11, unfortunately, you know, the sort of Chinese wall that was put up between the investigative and the intelligence side. I think the CIA took that to the extreme and prevented Steve Bongoard from learning that these two guys that he was trying to

track that they were actually in the United States for over a year. And the CIA knew it, but they hit it from us. They said, you know, allowed to use intelligence information for criminal investigations, but it, that's not, that's the fact that they're in the country is not a criminal issue. It's, it's their location. That's, that's not something that that must be withheld. So they withheld that information. If he had known that, he would have tracked them down. But that that

wouldn't have been the fact that they're in the country is not intelligence information. I mean, that's immigration information, right? But they took it as no, we don't want you to go out and arrest them probably because they were planning something else for these guys. But unfortunately, because they did that, these guys were able to run around and make the plans and become hijackers on 9/11. And that really pisses me off because a lot of people blame the FBI for not stopping it,

but literally, we were asking for the information. There's at least three different FBI agents and three different officers. One of them was Steve Bongar trying to get information because they feared that Al Qaeda was about to do something big. And they were all of them were ignored. But after it happened, then they gave out that information. It's a little late,

“fellas. Yeah. But if you want to hear the whole story, every detail of it and understand it,”

you should listen to after the fall on audible. After the fall, the FBI is 9/11 investigation.

one of my favorites is also where the devil belongs, about the Unibondman investigation,

“because it was fascinating, interviewing, surviving family members and the survivors of the”

his bombings. The people who lived, the amazing things they were doing, incredible people they were,

and it's just unbelievable that this, you know, supposed genius decided that, you know,

“he wanted to kill people instead of, you know, he's trying to say that technology is bad for”

the human race. So what does he do? He kills humans. I mean. Yeah. That's bad for the human race too,

buddy, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm more in. It's great seeing you. And next week.

“And if your brother Tim is there, tell him I said, hey, and give him a love for me.”

And until next time, this is best case worst case, signing off.