Credibility | EP 6 | Saskia's Story

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Hi, it's Joe Interestine,

host of the spirit daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today, I'm talking with my dear friend, Crystal Williams.

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Mike Levingood pled guilty to just one count of second degree rape.

He took a plea deal that meant he would only serve 18 months in prison. By the time of his sentencing hearing, the one you heard last episode, the judges' hands were tied. But she had watched those chatterbait videos, and she was sure of what she saw.

It was clear to me that Ms. Inwood was "comitose, not asleep, but comitose, unconscious, absolutely." Any technicalities in the law didn't matter. The videos spoke for themselves. To judge Jill Cummins, this was rape.

You were a predator to misinwood, and I completely understand it. The damage done to her is probably irreparable. Do you understand that by pleading guilty this morning,

“or waving, or giving out that presumption of innocence?”

Yes, I do. If so, was to plead guilty this morning. I do, you're on it. Okay, and when you pleading guilty today, served because you are in fact guilty?

Yes, you're on it. Of the one count. You'd think that would have been the end of it. But for Saskia, things were about to get much worse. Mike was just getting started.

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is betrayal season five. Episode six, credibility. Mike's guilty plea marked the end of his criminal proceedings, but his sentencing hearing wouldn't be his last time in court. It wouldn't be Saskia's either.

For a year, the criminal proceedings would be the same. But his sentencing hearing wouldn't be his last time in court. It wouldn't be Saskia's either. For a year, the criminal proceedings would be his last time in court. It wouldn't be Saskia's either.

For a year, the criminal matter took center stage. But the whole time, there was another case playing out. Saskia and Mike's divorce. We're going to rewind a bit to before Mike's plea deal. Before he was even charged with a crime.

It was November 1, 2018, just four days after Saskia discovered the videos of her being sexually assaulted and went to the police. On that day, Saskia was back at the courthouse, finalizing her protective order. But before she could leave the building,

I got served the divorce papers.

At first, having those papers in hand was a relief.

She wanted a divorce as quickly as possible. But as Saskia sat in the courthouse lobby, reading the documents Mike sent, she realized this wasn't just any divorce filing.

and I knew about chatterbait and pages and pages of allegations

“that him and I were a team came in together.”

Just four days after Saskia realized what Mike was doing to her. Four days after Mike left the house, he filed for divorce on the grounds of cruelty. Saskia's cruelty towards him. Mike said that Saskia's allegations, that he raped her,

secretly video taped her, and posted nude images of her without her knowledge were all false. Saskia was making it all up. The divorce complaint reads, "The parties would spend evening time posting

and watching other couples doing the same. This was a regular activity that the parties engaged in openly.

These acts were all consensual.

To get this divorce complaint just floored me, I knew that this was going to be really ugly." These divorce proceedings were completely different than the criminal case Mike was about to face. That case was a state of Maryland versus Mike Levingood.

It was the state's job to prove Mike's guilt. This divorce case was Mike Levingood versus Saskia in wood. It really felt like I was the one on trial. Mike could have gone for a no fault divorce. Instead, he was determined to take Saskia down.

And this path had a lot to offer him. His criminal trial had been taken place yet. So, the divorce was a bargaining chip. Saskia thinks that Mike was using the divorce case to get her to back down and make his criminal troubles disappear.

“"I think that he assumed that I would accept”

some kind of deal for Alamone and exchange for not testifying. It would be easy to throw some cash my way and this would all go away." Saskia could have used that money. She was dipping into her 401k just to pay her divorce attorney.

But that kind of deal, she'd never accept.

If the condition is that I don't testify, there's no way. I don't care, I'll be destitute. We're going to follow it through with this. The criminal proceedings went ahead with Saskia as an active participant in the case.

But even after Mike played guilty, even after the criminal matter was closed, he charged ahead with the divorce on the grounds of cruelty. Saskia wanted a divorce too. But like I said earlier, this was no typical divorce.

Mike was saying, Saskia was a liar, and there was a lot at stake. If a judge believed him, Saskia could owe Mike, her rapist, tens of thousands of dollars.

She could even be charged with false reporting or sued for defamation. In this case, there were lengthy depositions, requests for documents, and then in January of 2021,

the doors actually went to trial. This is extremely rare. Only about 5% of divorce cases make it to trial. It was the middle of COVID, so much of the trial took place over Zoom.

Saskia sat at her kitchen table, staring at Mike through her screen. He was sitting there in an orange jumpsuit after pleading guilty to rape. At this point, Mike had been convicted.

But in spite of that, at this divorce trial, Mike would claim he was innocent.

“That's why he was so determined to see this case through.”

You see, Mike couldn't win his freedom. Through his plea, he had waved much of his right to an appeal. But convincing this new judge that Saskia was lying, could help him clear his name. If he won the divorce, he could have an official document

that proved Saskia made the whole thing up. A document he could take to employers, friends, and family to say, "This is what really happened." The divorce judge saw the truth. On the surface, the divorce trial was all about money.

As most of horses are, who'd get the house, the cars, but really, the trial rested on who the judge believed. Mike or Saskia. Mike looked very arrogant and cocky and had no emotion or feeling. I think he thought that it would be just a wash.

When Mike and his attorney opened their case, their strategy was clear. Turn the spotlight off Mike and onto Saskia.

But what does that really mean?

Well, they would have to prove she wasn't believable. They'd introduce patterns of behavior, aspects of her character that would show she wasn't a reliable narrator. How would they do this? By saying she'd lost her mind.

She was very depressed. She would unable to get out the work. I'm depressed. I can't take it again. Or work to stretch me out.

The kids are hurting me out. Life is definitely out. This is the courtroom audio from the divorce trial. That's Mike's real voice you just heard.

In calling out Saskia's anxiety and depression,

“wasn't the only way he tried to undermine her credibility.”

He also talked a lot about her use of drugs and alcohol. She drank the signal to get him out. They were so cute. On her part, more than mine. It's very quickly snowballed into seven, eight, nine drinks.

She also received the alcohol from a friend when she starts drinking. She doesn't stop. All of this was to introduce doubt about Saskia. Saskia's lawyer objected to a lot of this testimony. Arguing that Mike's side was trying to enter character evidence unfairly.

But the judge allowed Mike to continue. I felt like I was on the Twilight Zone. The fact that the judges were even listening to these things was blowing my mind. Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the spirit daughter podcast,

where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16,

“you're going to have a terrible time with men.”

After storyteller and unapologetic aquarium visionary. Aquaries is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements and Aquarius, like our misunderstood, a son and Venus in Aquarius in her 7th house. Spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses and different places. But just an embracing of the isness of it. If you're navigating your own transformation, or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist

integrates astrology, creativity, and real life. This episode is a must-listen. Listen to the spirit daughter podcast, starting on February 24th on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no grip. A new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-export pockets of F1. Including the astrology of the current grid.

Louis Hamilton, Crap The Corn Son, Cancer Moon. The story of the sportsman's consequential driver strike. We have one man who upon hearing that he was going to be fired, freaked out, and apparently climbed out the window of the bathroom. And was Daniel Recart was a listry of F1 career, a success story,

a cautionary tale, or some combination of both. He started getting all this attention, and he may be started to think, "I'm bigger than this. I'm better." And plenty of other mishab scandals and sagas that have made a difference. He started to think, "I'm bigger than this. I'm better."

And plenty of other mishab scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent, dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no grip on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of The On Purpose Podcast. I'm joined by Luke Combs, award-winning country music artist, and one of the most authentic voices in music today. Luke opens up about success, self-doubt, mental health, and what it really takes to stay true to who you are when your life changes overnight.

I hate fame, I hate the word celebrity hate those words, that you make me uncomfortable.

“But I think when you get to a certain point, the fame or the success or the influence,”

it just accentuates and exacerbates the inherent person that you are.

The guy that says he's always going to be there,

and that will do anything to be there, is the only guy that's not there. I'm in Australia when Beau is born. The whole identity is that no matter what, I'm going to prioritize my wife and my children. Over my job, I dread the conversation with my son.

What do you think you'd say? Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The nurse, who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies,

“is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.”

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppi. Lucy Leppi has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the false story? At the moment, you look at the whole picture of the case collapses.

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it. To ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Leppi was.

No voicing of any skepticism are doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level

of the British establishment of this is wrong.

Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

“When Sasuke and Mike stood for his trial began,”

he was zooming in from jail. And his legal strategy was to discredit Sasuke. He was very repractor, but don't you on her part, more than my friend, she starts drinking, he doesn't stop.

Sasuke sat through hours and hours of this testimony, listening to Mike dry out every time she drank too much, and every time she couldn't get out of bed. It wasn't that these moments hadn't occurred.

It was that Mike was using them to say Sasuke was responsible

for everything that happened to her. He was telling the story of the worst period of her life. But in this story, it was all her fault. She was the one causing chaos. These things were so dehumanizing

and so dismissive of what I had been through in my pain.

“I have to admit, it's hard for me to listen”

to Mike make this argument without feeling angry. Mike knew her family's mental health history, and how Sasuke was determined to remain stable, to not walk the same path as her dad. Sasuke thought Mike was on her team.

And yet, Mike had been exploiting her mental illness, her use of alcohol and drugs for years. Sasuke's friend Heather put it best. It was his advantage to keep her in this drunken, drugged up bad mental health state,

because the more vulnerable became the easier it became for him to take advantage of her. But as Mike testified and his attorney spoke, his culpability faded into the background. He zeroed in on her behaviors, her imperfections,

to show that she shouldn't be trusted, and even that she was to blame. I want you to hear Mike's account of October 27th, 2018, the night of the Halloween party. The night Sasuke saw what was on Mike's computer screen.

The audio isn't perfect, so listen closely. Here's his story of that night. We've been out of the fight in call for those drug and ended up looking at gathering for what's right. When they got home, they went onto chatterbait,

the camming website. But just as they were logging on, he got and wanted it off. So, kind of like the bed, and that was it for the evening.

Back then, he was very, very agitated. wanted to look at what's right, which we did. And then, it can vary focus on Mike's monogogy. Maybe he was looking at the website without her. It became very emotional.

But it's being all kinds of things, and that's at the point where she stood there. It part of the dresser, and she looked at him, and she said, "I now know what we're doing." And actually, it was just shut the shock and out of nowhere. It could be awkward.

Then, I'm going to realize that we're going on there. In Mike's memory, he and Sasuke were at a party. They were both drunk, looked at a website. The next day, Sasuke went crazy on him, out of the blue. There could only be one explanation for all of this.

Sasuke was mentally ill. In court, this strategy is often effective. It plays on misconceptions we all have about what it means to be a rape victim.

you're probably familiar with the character of the perfect victim.

“As sure as I live and breathe, William Harris is the man who raped me in that alley.”

Think of Law and Order SVU. There's the perpetrator, the bad guy. And then, there is an innocent victim. She's written to be brilliant, beautiful, and beyond reproach. I tried to get away, but I couldn't. She just left me there.

Storytellers love this archetype. The protagonist is clear, and audiences love it too. We know exactly who to root for. There's no room for doubt.

The problem is that most victims don't behave.

The way this imaginary perfect victim behaves. That's Deborah Turkheimer, a professor at Northwestern University, Pritzker School of Law. I am a former prosecutor, and I handled cases involving special victims. Deborah wrote a book called "Credible," why we doubt accusers of protective users. She's an expert on sexual violence.

She says the perfect victim character doesn't just live on screen. She's the benchmark, the standard that all rape victims are judged against. In the courts and circles of friends, everywhere. The perfect victim standard includes misconceptions about how victims behave, and how they ought to behave before, during, and after, the abuse.

Before, there ought to be no drinking, no drug use. And Sasuke, as we know, was on a lot of substances when she was raped. During the abuse, the perfect victim fights. She fights back. She fights hard. But Sasuke was knocked out. And then afterwards, the perfect victim he's able to recall with precision, every single detail of what happened.

Which again, Sasuke couldn't. In every way, Sasuke failed to rise the perfect victim standard.

The reality is most victims do.

It's unfair to impose a set of rules that, for the most part, can be followed and aren't followed. And yet, the rules remain. And they serve abusers like Mike, because when victims aren't perfect victims, we can write them off. And we can turn them into other characters. The regretful woman, so someone who had consensual sex, and then decided it was a mistake.

And so is now, quote unquote, crying rape. The gold digger, someone who is making this up because she wants money. And then there's the hysterical woman, someone who just really doesn't know what's going on, and doesn't have a firm grasp of reality. It's one of the oldest and most effective ways to discredit a victim.

To make the judge question their sanity, and doubt what happened to them. Here's Alice Paray, Mike's attorney from the divorce trial.

“What did you see that makes you believe that she was struggling?”

He was very regret. He was unable to get out for work many, many times. He was struggling to take care of the kids. He's in which, as I'm feeling like shit, how often, would she tell you something like that? Still any time that you're not even count?

And would any particular reason why she felt like shit? Because of--on the press, I can't take it again. But work is fair to me, I should keep just hurting you out, like it's starting to be out. By Mike's account, Sasuke wasn't composed, or stable, or credible. She was a woman in the midst of a breakdown.

Her word couldn't and shouldn't be trusted. She had to have lost touch with reality because, according to Mike, he and Sasuke were camning together, having sex on camera all the time. How many times have the two of you can on chatty? Yeah, two or three times in a time.

“And how many times have you observed other people coming on chatty?”

Three or four dozen times, the sex life became for the extremely adventurous, but not a lot of limits.

But Mike wasn't asking the judge to take his word on all this.

His divorce attorney, Alice Perray, said she could prove it. She had a plan.

“I would like to really admit all of the pictures and all of the videos because I think the how much of them is relevant to Mike's case.”

And when Alice said all, she wasn't just talking about the videos from the criminal trial. The ones detective rule recovered from 2017 and 2018. There are hundreds of photographs, hundreds of videos, and they take place both in the course of years and years, six or seven or four years. There was more evidence, much more. An Alice claimed it would show Sasuke consented to everything.

Every sexual act, every video. What's happened is the defendant has under oath in cheating and request that responses to admissions just denied it.

Right, never posted a picture, never participated in videos.

And you say this never happened and there is a picture of a living color or video of it in moving motion. Is relevant. And according to Alice, it would show that Sasuke was not to be believed. [Music] Hi, this is Joe Interestine, host of the Spirer.com podcast.

Where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. After storyteller and unapologetic, aquarium visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives.

And I find a lot of people with strong placements and Aquarius are misunderstood. A son and Venus in Aquarius, in her seventh house, spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want to chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology,

creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirer.com podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no grip.

A new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-export pockets of F1. Including the astrology of the current grid.

“Louis Hamilton, Krapikhoran's son, Cancer Moon, wouldn't you know it?”

Michael Schumacher is also a Capricorn son, Cancer Moon. The story of the sportsman's consequential driver strike. We have one man who upon hearing that he was going to be fired, freaked out, and apparently climbed out the window of the bathroom. And was Daniel Ricardo's illustrious F1 career a success story, a cautionary tale, or some combination of both?

He started getting all this attention, and he may be started to think, "I'm bigger than this. I'm better." And plenty of other mishab scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent, gumster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no grip on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose Podcast. I'm joined by Luke Combs, award-winning country music artist, and one of the most authentic voices in music today. Luke opens up about success, self-doubt, mental health, and what it really takes to stay true to who you are when your life changes overnight. I hate fame, I hate the word celebrity hate those words that you make me uncomfortable.

“But I think when you get to a certain point, the fame or the success or the influence,”

it just accentuates and exacerbates the inherent person that you are.

The guy that says he's always going to be there, and that will do anything to be there,

is the only guy that's not there. I'm in Australia when Beau is born. My whole identity is that no matter what, I'm going to prioritize my wife and my children. Over my job, I dread the conversation with my son. What do you think, you two?

Listen to On Purpose, Vijay Shetty, on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppi. Lucy Leppi has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the full story? A moment you look at the whole picture of the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi,

we follow the evidence in here from the people that lived it. To ask what really happened, when the world decided who Lucy Leppi was. No voicing of any skepticism are doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In the criminal trial, there were about 30 videos recovered from chatterbait.

“These videos were the key to prosecuting and confecting Mike.”

But in the divorce trial, Mike said he never raped Sasuke, or took images of her without her consent.

She agreed to all of it. And to back that up, he said that he and Sasuke often made pornography together. Which was done over the course of seven years to the tune of over 200 photographs and videos. 200 photographs and videos. His divorce attorney, Alice Paray, seemed confident.

The evidence will convince the boy that she was a willing participant in these matters. While working on this episode, we reached out to Alice Paray. She declined to comment. In these additional images, it wasn't just that Sasuke's eyes were open, as we've talked about in previous episodes. Alice claimed that in lots of instances, Sasuke was awake, and she was posing and performing for the camera.

If Sasuke was saying she'd never consented, she was lying, or she was delusional.

From the early days of reporting this season, I knew that there were some pictures, Mike took of Sasuke essentially. Sasuke was open about that with us, and with detectives too. The kids would be out of the house, and they'd be drinking, having a good time. Then Mike would pull out his phone. You heard about one of these incidents in episode one.

“I remember one time he took a picture of me and showed me how good my butt looked or something like that.”

And I explicitly asked him, "What are you doing with that picture?" And he's like, "Well, of course I'm going to erase it. I would never show it to anybody." But she can only remember this happening a handful of times. Mike said he had 200 photographs and videos, and most of these images.

I don't remember taking them, and I never knew of their existence.

All of this brings up another painful truth about rape cases. No matter the corroboration, no matter the amount of prosecutors, family members, and experts standing behind a victim, there's an initial default doubt that is sort of culturally ingrained in us. That's law professor Deborah Turkheimer again. She says, "Doubt is built into the crime of rape."

It's really difficult in the criminal setting to get past that very high standard of proof-be unreasonable doubt, and that's true of every crime. But if it's especially true of rape, historically there were special instructions that were given to Dury's that said,

“"You should be even more cautious about convicting in this case, because accusers are still untressed worthy."”

Now those formal instructions aren't given, but we still have a default to doubt when someone comes forward. That's true, even in a case like this, where there's so much evidence. Even sometimes when it's on video, right? There are questions of interpretation. No judge or jury can turn back the clock to be in the room at the time a rape happened, and no one can get into the minds or bodies of the people involved.

And that's also a challenge for us as reporters. That's my producer, Caitlin Golden. We can't go back in time. And so in understanding the story, the only thing we can do is rely on the evidence that is available to us. When it comes to images like these attorneys will always make arguments of what was really going on.

But our team didn't understand the degree to which these were just arguments until we saw the images for ourselves.

We saw the kinds of photos we heard so much about from Mike's attorney. One's Versace's eyes were open. One in particular has stuck with us.

I remember the first time I saw that photo, and I had to immediately close my laptop.

Because I mean, it's so hard to describe as anything other than horrific. Yeah, she's not there. No, no. She isn't there.

“I hate even just scribing it, but the only way I could describe what I saw is it's like a corpse with her eyes open.”

It's really upsetting. So when I look at that photo, I think, of course she doesn't remember this. And the idea that images like this were her eyes are open or being used to say that she was awake and consented to everything is so disturbing. Seeing this image, it felt clearer than ever. What happened to Saskia is real.

It matters.

And Mike, not Saskia, is to blame.

But in the divorce trial back in 2021, there was only one person that needed to be convinced of all this. That was the judge. And Saskia was unsure what she'd make of these images. I knew that I wasn't going to be given the benefit of the doubt. Before Mike's attorney could show the videos, the judge asked to review the content herself.

“She stepped into her chambers to watch and private.”

As everyone waited for the judge to return, Saskia sat in her kitchen staring at Mike through her screen. The man who'd hurt her was now in jail. He was just a little box on Zoom. And yet, he had the power to make her feel so small. He was the one behind bars.

But the judge was deliberating over Saskia's actions. Her character. It felt ridiculous and absurd. And dehumanizing that I had to go through that. But I also knew that I just had to get through it.

Saskia knew the truth.

The truth is always the best defense.

“She just hoped the judge would see the truth too.”

After a brief recess, the judge returned. So I have gone through the additional videos. And it looks as though Miss Inwood knows she had points. The pictures are being taken. And I'm not sure about knowing she's being videotaped because I don't think I saw anything that expressly shows that.

So this could very well be a situation where you know, consenting couple over to take pictures of each other. And I don't think that that is going to challenge Miss Inwood's credibility. But I do believe that Mister Levin Goods attorney should have some opportunity to examine her about that. The judge couldn't say for sure that Saskia did or did not know she was being filmed.

And she knew this content was being shared. So she asked the officers of the court to turn around. And Mike's attorney Alice Prey pulled up the evidence. She wanted to show Saskia the videos and make her answer for them in front of everyone. Saskia looked at the video on her screen.

Despite what Alice said, this was a video of her being violated. A video that was now being shown to a room full of strangers. And made me feel like a full and made me feel like less than a person. The whole time she couldn't stop thinking about Mike. It's heartbreaking to think that he put everybody through that just so that he could get away with humiliating me.

With Saskia on the stand, the judge let Mike's attorney Alice Prey proceed. Did you recall this video? No, I don't. Do you recall when it was fake? The objection she just said no, she doesn't recall.

How rude. Man, do you recall when this video was taken? No, because I don't recall the video. The attorneys fought back and forth on objections and relevance as Saskia just sat there. It was so retraumatizing to have to defend myself.

As dehumanizing to have your life whittle down to that.

You're just sitting there helpless, having to listen to it.

And it's something I wouldn't wish on anyone. Alice continued cross-examining Saskia for just a couple more minutes. Asking Saskia if she posed for pictures for Mike, and then the judge popped in.

“Can you go ahead and misperate? Anything else you want to ask?”

No. No, the questions of Ms. Inwood? No, I will save my time for Ms. Inwood. All right. All right. Any, uh, she didn't ask much. Any, any read the right.

None of you. All right. Thank you. Okay.

Alice spent her remaining time questioning Mike again.

Before long, she ran out of time. Both sides closed their cases. In the weeks that followed Saskia waited and waited for the divorce decision. She wasn't expecting any kind of big win. She just wanted those papers in hand.

I had no faith in the justice system anymore. I just wanted it to be over. I was already so disheartened about everything and not hopeful at all. It was like I was waiting for the time to run out. Everything was just getting in the way of me just being divorced from this monster.

I wanted nothing more than to be divorced and be able to move on. And I could really say that this is not my husband. This is a monster who was posing as my husband and now he's totally gone.

Finally, a few months later, the judge released her decision.

We're going to have a producer read part of it for you.

“And remember, Mike is the plaintiff here.”

Saskia is the defendant. The judge wrote, This court credits defendants testimony and expressly discredits plaintiff's testimony. In other words, she didn't believe Mike. She believed Saskia.

plaintiff attempted to convince this court that defendant was aware of the site and aware that she was being sexually penetrated and otherwise manipulated by the plaintiff. The court is unconvinced. The evidence revealed defendant has struggled during the party's marriage and before with addiction and mental health issues,

making her particularly vulnerable to mistreatment by someone she trusted. Defendant learned only after very personal images were broadcast to the world on the internet that she was married to someone whom she could not trust.

“The plaintiff betrayed his spouse in the worst type of way.”

He then lied about it and continued to lie about it. Another judge saw through Mike's lies and came to the same conclusion. On paper, she won. But in reality, to Saskia, it didn't matter. Of course, yes, she found that he was not credible and that I was credible,

but it still didn't take away from what I had been through in this divorce and would have been taken away from me. It was exactly how Saskia felt after Mike's plea deal. She was told that this was a good outcome for the court system, but it didn't feel that way.

Professor Deborah Turkheimer says that's often how these cases go. Even in the end, if the survivor is found credible, and there's that vindication that comes along with it, along the way, the process can be enormously difficult, degrading, even traumatic. Saskia was granted a divorce on the grounds of cruelty.

The judge wrote, "This court can think a few actions that weren't a divorce on this ground more so than the rape and sexual exploitation that occurred here." But she had to live through two and a half years of proceedings to get there, when he'd already been convicted in criminal court.

She spent two and a half years defending herself, having to answer for every drink she had, every hospital stay, having all of her vulnerabilities put on display when Mike had raped her. And this crime isn't unique to Saskia. You can see his hands, his wedding ring,

and then I realized that I am in these images. On the next episode of Betrayal, we meet other survivors. It has been a real journey for me to get to the point of realizing that it's not my gut that's broken.

For resources on sexual violence, visit rain.org/betrayal.

That's R-A-I-N-N.org/betrayal.

“You can also get free confidential 24/7 support”

through rain's natural sexual assault hotline. Just text hope to 64673 or call 1-800-656-Hope. You are not alone. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, or want to tell us your story, email us at [email protected].

That is, Betrayal, P-O-D, at gmail.com. Or follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod. To access additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our [email protected]. We're grateful for your support.

One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.

Don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of glass podcasts, a division of glass entertainment group

in partnership with iHeartpodcasts.

“The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass in Jennifer Fason.”

Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Caitlin Golden. Our supervising producer is Carrie Hartman. Our story editor is Monique LeBord, also produced by Ben Fetterman.

Associate producers are Olivia Hewitt and Leah Jablow. Production management by Kristen Melchiery. Additional support by Carrie Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kleincheck. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with additional editing

and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia, her friends and family. It's special thanks to Will Pearson and Carrie Lieberman. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by myb music.

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