Deb | Featured on ABC's Betrayal: Secrets and Lies

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite on humor me with Robert

Smigle and Friends.

“Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week”

my guest. SNL's Mikey Day and Headwriters Streeter Side L helped an Occupella band with their "Between Songs" banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes, those people are starving for banter.

Wasn't a humor me with Robert Smigle and Friends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless.

And at the French Open, only the toughest survive.

I know, I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no non-sense breakdowns of the biggest matches. The toughest players, and the moment set to find Roland Garros. "Gentian Winner."

"Yes, she's an outsider to win the French ring." And he likes Clay, listen, Leonard Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And actually, we're not any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear

“about in the news, body bags is where you need to turn.”

There's no fluff, we do a deep dive into the forensics. Listen to body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's #1 podcast network. IHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listening. Blood trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors where the terrain is unforgiving,

the evidence is scarce and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. I'm Jordan Sillers, season 2 is out now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Andrea. And we are re-releasing some of our past weekly episodes and there's a good reason why.

For the last year, I have been working with ABC on turning some of your favorite episodes of Betrayal Weekly into a TV show. The show is called Betrayal Secrets and Lies and it airs every Sunday at 10pm on ABC.

“This week we are re-releasing Deb Proctor Story.”

You may have heard Deb Story before or you may be new to her story, a little bit about Deb.

She is an incredible and beautiful spirit.

If you talk to her, you know, instantly she is just a genuine, good person and a good friend, a true advocate. In my conversations with Deb, sure we talked about her experience of Betrayal in life, but what I really wanted to pick her brain about was golf. She's an avid golfer and you hear a little bit about that in the episode.

I just started learning, so I even set her videos of my swing. Why does this matter to Betrayal? Well, for me, learning something new is to confront and push through failure. It's pushing through discomfort and self-criticism. It's celebrating the small wins.

And it's about showing up. Deb has overcome so much in her life from addiction to Betrayal. And today, I hope she is on a golf course somewhere celebrating how far she's got. If you have not heard this story, I won't give any more away. Hearing Deb's story is fascinating, but seeing it unfold is a whole new experience.

So please be short and check out Betrayal's secrets and lies on ABC and Hulu to see Deb and where her story takes place. Enjoy the episode. It was a profound moment. It's the duality of, "Oh my God, what in the world?" Who is this cruel?

Who can pull this off? Whose friends pull it off? How do you fabricate the details like that? I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal. A show about the people we trust the most and the perceptions that change everything.

My real name is Deborah, but typically everyone calls me Deb. Deb proctor grew up on the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma. She recently retired from her role as the senior director of her tribe's Domestic Violence

And before that, she spent her entire career as a nurse.

“After being a RN well now, it's been a 48 and a half years.”

Like a lot of people in the medical profession, she developed a keen sense for when someone is lying. When you mention bullshit detectors, I can spot him a flipball field away or farther. Deb is Cherokee, and proud of her Native American heritage. My grandmother who lived until she was 99 years old, she is actually our family's original

and roly, which means she is on the doll's role.

The doll's role was a list compiled by the US government in the late 1800s in early 1900s.

It named about 100,000 Native Americans who were a lot of land, which was pretty unusual to have an original roly in your life for most of it. Growing up, Deb's grandmother was a constant presence and a source of inspiration.

“I think I thought a lot of my proctor will and strength encourage from her.”

She was born before statehood, and she was still stacking her own wood when she was in her early 90s. She was a survivor of many, many situations in her life. Her grandmother experienced a lot of violence firsthand. Deb's father did too. As a child, his own father was murdered in front of him. Those life-evenants, or what gives the background in the experience to what we would call

intergenerational trauma, or historical trauma. She saw the impact of that on her family. There was alcoholism and emotional turmoil and when she was young, Deb struggled to process it. When you're at very sensitive nature child, your little heart's opening your intuitive. You pick up that energy. From a young age, she experienced violence and abuse herself.

The violence by experience, I truly am a heart know that it's as a result of those that could not heal. Deb believes her father's unresolved trauma, let him to become a civil servant. He taught me a lot about community service. He would be in his vehicle driving through the

rural areas seeing what the natives needed. Ultimately, he was a councilman for a tribe

served many, many years. Deb grew up quickly in more ways than one. In fact, on our 16th birthday, her high school boyfriend surprised her. They had a birthday party for me, and he asked me to marry him and I accepted that was the day I turned 16. But her engagement didn't distract her from prioritizing education. Her father insisted

“that she earned an advance degree. He was the one in the family who said you must have an”

education. And so, at age 17, I did start college, and I finished at 19 with my first R end degree. That was as a result of my dad pushing me. Before she even had a chance to know herself, she was married and working as a full-time nurse. I mean, I'm running the hospital as a baby nurse. I'd probably turn 20, maybe 21, by the end. It was tough, but I spent a good part of my energy on trying to achieve perfection. Deb and her husband shared a very similar upbringing.

He came from a violent background, very similar to mine, and so we just went together, like peanut butter and jelly. They had two sons together. But a few years into marriage, her husband's behavior became a problem. He struggled with drugs and drinking. In he had violent tendencies. It was really hard. She eventually left her husband and resolved to end the cycle of violence. To make a safe and stable environment for her and her two sons.

And so, for many years, I remained single, and just spent time with myself and the boys. And so, for the next few years, after we divorced, I sought to understand a bot books. I joined book clubs. Anything on self-understanding. She started going to therapy and joined support groups for families impacted by alcoholism. She was creating a better life for herself and for her sons. When her sons became teenagers, she looked around and realized, "I did want a partner in life.

She was 41 and felt ready to explore a new partnership, so she made an online dating profile.

“This was 1997. Back when online dating was a novel concept.”

Yeah, this ain't bumble, this ain't he? Yeah, this is none of that stuff. One man peaked her interest. His name was Jeff Walton. His profile was just romantic. It was something like, "I'm looking for my guinevere." Jeff said he wanted to treat his next partner like a queen. Deb wrote him an email. He lived a couple states away in Kentucky.

With her conversation flowed easily. And Deb quickly discovered they shared the same interests. They both loved golf. And Jeff wanted to hear more about Deb's Cherokee culture. You know, the music, a spiritual journey. He loved the native American spiritual practices. And when I talked to him, I was just smitten with him.

“She looked forward to his phone calls and emails.”

I saved all of that. I printed a, we're saying I had a huge 3-inch purple binder with all of our exchanges. As they got closer, she got to know more about his backstory. He was born in Alaska and moved to Canada. He was a dual citizen of Canada in the United States. And he had a complicated relationship with his biological family.

He didn't know he's real dad. His stepdad was very violent. And he would share stories. Like, you know, his stepdad murdered the family poodle in front of his sister and his mom and him. And I mean, it was horrible stories. Deb had seen her share of violence as well. She understood what it was like. So they bonded over their difficult childhoods.

Jeff's family was still in Canada, but they'd fallen out of touch. He moved to New Orleans as a young man. And along the way, he picked up the accent. So when he would talk to me on the phone, he would have that, you know, dialect. He would say, "Hello, darling." And I mean, "dory." I can't do it. But it was definitely New Orleans. Jeff's wife and adult son still lived in New Orleans. But after his divorce, he'd taken a job in Kentucky.

He was a project manager for a big construction company that, you know, worked on Toyota plants, that worked on the University of Kentucky, that had done all this great work.

Jeff was the kind of person who'd lived a million lives in one. He just fascinated me. He was a pilot

and played football for Woody Hayes at Ohio State and was phenomenal. Deb could really see herself with this guy. We're going to embark upon this journey together. We love music. We love golf. We're both seekers. I just was so excited about meeting this man. After a year of talking, they decided to finally meet each other in person. Jeff flew to Oklahoma.

And when he arrived at the airport, she was waiting for him with a gift. I'd had a traditional ear, a medicine man, at going to him and asking him to be a feather. There was a song by Robbie Robertson, and the name of it was "Gold and Sether."

Give my love a gold and Sether. And if you would look it up, it's so that I never lose my way home.

And I thought what a beautiful expression of love for this new man in my life to give him a feather because he loves that native American song so much. So I met him at the playing with that and I said, here's so you can always find your way home. And Jeff had come with the surprise of his own. Since he got off the plane and he was walking toward me, it seemed like his voice was shaking.

“And he said, you will marry me, won't you? You're going to marry me, right? You are marrying me, right?”

That was Jeff's marriage proposal. And I was like, well, of course, of course. Yes. The weekend could not have gone better. Jeff wanted to get to know her world. You know, I drove around, showed the rule area, my history, some of the culture. Where I worked, we went out to my golf course. I introduced him to a lot of my friends.

They started making arrangements for him to move to Oklahoma.

“And I'm a planner and an organizer and area aspect to my life. So shoot.”

Dinex saying, you know, I'm getting busy. I'm helping him find jobs. He's getting his resume. Of course, we're still using fax as the end. And he would send things and I would write cover letters for him to help him get relocated. A few months later, Jeff moved in. They spent the next year planning a small family wedding in the Ozarks. We married on April 23rd, 2000. It was the anniversary of the day they met in person.

Deb's youngest son walked her down the aisle and Jeff's son little Jeff flew into support his dad. It was a true merging of their lives. I really thought it was meant to be.

They planned their first trip together as newlyweds, a golf trip with Deb's group of friends.

“Deb had been golfing for her entire life. Every year she and her friends traveled the”

country to play. Jeff was eager to join. He'd been an avid golfer when he was younger. But he hadn't played in years. So he lost his golf clubs. Well, heck, you know, I got to go buying golf clubs, you know, because he's got to have golf clubs for a month play. So then he needed lessons because he just hadn't got to play in a while. He said, need it to brush up, but on their first golf trip with her friends, once we got all the

scores in and everything, the winner was him. And I was like, well, golly, great job. But Deb's friends were stand-offish with Jeff about his win, and one of her friends was quick to point out. A real golfer is not going to leave their clubs behind.

“It doesn't make sense. Her friends had never acted like this before. She didn't know what happened,”

and neither did Jeff. But after that, they weren't invited on any more golf trips. I felt like everybody was mistreating him. A year into their marriage, Jeff was still struggling to find the right job in Oklahoma. One day, when Deb was helping him with an application. Well, I found a no-resumate. And on this particular resume, it says Vietnam veteran.

I was like, my God. He'd never told her he was a veteran, but Deb had a lot of experience with the

VA. While getting her advanced nursing degree, she worked on a program at the VA that specifically studied Vietnam veterans with PTSD. "I'm like, you never told me you were a veteran, you'd never told me you were in the VA, not before." That is a significant event in life. I was flabbergasted, it had never come up. And he said, well, I don't like to talk about it, Deb. I use it all my resumes because, you know, that ought to tell you something.

And I was like, but she should've told me I should never sound out here.

Deb felt like he needed to talk about it, even if he didn't want to. She had first hand

experience with veterans in PTSD. And so over the course of time, he began to tell me what happened. It was an elaborate story, intricate details. As an 18-year-old, he'd been in the special forces in Vietnam. One night, he caught his senior officers using drugs. Fearing he would turn them in, the officers allowed Jeff to be captured. He was held as a prisoner of war. And for months, he was tortured. And they busted his feet with the butt of a gun so they couldn't walk.

But he got out, he and he escaped, and he made it back to the US forces by following the path of a stream. And it was so difficult because his feet were busted up. He was taken to a veterans hospital. He had to have metal put in his feet because they were broken. And if we flew anywhere it would trigger the metal alarms as you go in. He recovered physically and was discharged. But psychologically, he was scarred. The trauma was so bad. He said it was just

so awful that sometimes he would just get in the claws and he would just hide. Deb was worried about his mental health, especially because his support system was thin. He was in a new place.

to reconnect. They invited him back to Canada. His siblings had said that his mother's 80th birthday party was coming up and they wanted him to come. And he talked to him about it.

And I said, "Well, we've got to. I've never met any of your family and absolutely."

A few months later, they flew to Alberta to meet his family. They hadn't seen Jeff in decades. They were illated to welcome him home. And Deb never thought she'd get the chance to meet his siblings. "I've finally got to meet his family. I was just so excited to be there and to meet them and you know, it one of the brothers' houses we might play games and just chat and get to know each other." Deb fit right in. "We didn't have any serious, meaningful conversations about life or anything.

We were just doing a friendly, cordial, meet the family thing. He was up B. Everyone was up B. It was a good trip." It was a good trip. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Deb didn't know it at the time,

“but everyone there was in on a secret. Everyone except for her. Her husband, Jeff,”

wasn't who he said he was. In fact, everyone in his family knew Jeff by a different name.

"Come to find out." He met his siblings at the door and told him, "I'm going by Jeff Wall now. I'll tell you later." Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite on humor me with Robert Smigle and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week's podcast. SNL's Mikey Day and Headwriters Streeter Side L helped an occapella band with their "Between Songs Banner." "Where does your group perform?"

"We do some retirement homes." "Those people are starving for Banner." "Wasn't it humor me with Robert Smigle and Friends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts?" The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis,

“and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs,”

and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Girls. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. I mean, she went down to three to re-backing up, but I'm delighted. "She's an outsider to win the French, right?" And she likes Clay. "Listen, Leonard re-backing up is arguably the best play in the world right now,

and actually we're not any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck." Consider this your "Cort Side Seek" to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. "Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports."

If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about

“in the news, body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep dive into”

the forensics. Listen to body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's No. 1 podcast network. "IHeart, open your free iHeart app and search body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listening." Hi everyone, I'm Cheryl Strade, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventures, and adrenaline seekers

to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix, so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We come into this world fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. "We're there to support and celebrate each other,

and not like a your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it." "Yeah, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it." Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Debinar Husband went to Canada to reconnect with his estranged family,

and to her surprise, the trip was a success, meeting his family brought the two of them closer. But one day after they returned from their trip, Jeff collapsed on the golf course.

wanted him to let him take him into the hospital. He said, "No, just take me to my car."

“And so he did that. He thought his car and he drove home.”

Deb met him at their house and forced him to go to the hospital. Jeff had suffered a major heart attack. It would require ongoing care. But Jeff still hadn't nailed down a steady job. So the couple needed help covering his medical expenses. Deb had worked at the VA years ago, and insisted it was their best resource. And he absolutely said, "I will not go. I don't trust the government. I'm not going."

And I said, "Well, that's bullshit. We're going bro. We've got to get your health care." That's when Jeff explained. The VA wouldn't take him. He said, "They don't even have a list at me because I was dishonorably discharged because I reported

“the officers. They won't even have me on to well anything to do with the VA."”

And I said, "That's bullshit. You were a soldier. You were captured." And he said, "I won't go."

He got up and he never talked about it again.

In that moment, I was like, "That is weird." His explanation just didn't add up. Deb even considered hiring someone to look into Jeff's background. I wonder if I need to get a private investigator or something. And I logged on to the internet and then I was like, "God, I don't have any money to get a private detective." She didn't have the money or the time to hire a PI. Shortly after Jeff's heart attack,

“he had a stroke. Then his memory began to falter.”

All the while he was refusing to go to the VA. It financially strained the family. And Deb was at a loss. I had begun to say, "I do not know what is wrong with my life. How am I going to get this guy health care?" He's got to have health care. Deb was his primary care taker on top of her full-time nursing job. It was overwhelming. I'd begin to drink and then I drink heavily and then it was uncontrollably. Alcohol became an escape from her marriage and its problems. When I started drinking,

I didn't have to be confused anymore because my brain was numb. Deb had spent so many years taking care of other people that she neglected herself. That's the person that was going to Allenons from the mid-80s, taken family, taking coworkers, taking friends to AA, in a rehab. I was taken everybody to get help. But myself had, I guess, reached just a hard stop where I couldn't do with it.

Deb had just turned 50 and had been with Jeff for a decade, but the life with him was becoming harder year after year. At first, he failed to bring in a steady income. Then when he became sick, he refused resources for affordable health care. Deb turned to booze for the stress, but one day after a long night of drinking, she found herself too shaky to put the golf ball on the tee. She checked herself into a 30-day rehab.

"Best move I ever made. I'm not going to tell you it was pretty. It was ugly.

But there's always been a driving force within me to rise above."

Being alone in rehab gave her a lot of clarity, and with that clarity came questions, specifically about Jeff. When she left rehab, she looked at Jeff's behavior with the new set of eyes. "I began to really observe. He was strange. Something was not right, not right." She wasn't ready to leave the marriage. Her focus was on her new sobriety, but she did come up with a plan. To get some answers out of Jeff, she gave him an assignment.

And I began to say to him, "Jeff, every day while I'm at work, I want you to work on your life's story, because I don't understand it. You told me you were born in Alaska and you moved to Canada. But I don't know where you even went to school. I don't even know when you moved to Canada. If something happens, I'm going to be honest with you. I can't even ride in no bit you're wearing." She thought it would be a good exercise for both of them, and she hoped it could help her

though will share your story with me. I couldn't work on it today." After his stroke, Jeff's

“memory was worse than ever. "He began to claim that he just didn't have much of a memory,”

but the neurologist at the time of his stroke had already advised me that the stroke was not going to impact his memory. Then he wanted me to get in chat from possible early dementia." He needed more care than she could provide at home, so she applied for him to be in a funded outpatient care facility. And he was accepted. "It's a wonderful program that will

you stay in your home, but they basically have a center that's open during the day and there's

activities and transportation, there's clinic on-side, everything that you could need, and if you need something outside, they'll take you." He started going to the center every day. "That was until the program called me and they said, "Have you talked to Jeff, because nobody can find him. He's gone." "Deb was at work. She didn't know where he was. With his memory issues, she worried he could have gotten lost, so they called the police."

"Come to find out. He had left the group and the care team to go to the bank." When Deb got there, Jeff seemed confused about what was happening. The whole situation confirmed that

he really needed the facility. His memory must be worse than she thought, but shortly after Jeff's

incident at the bank, Deb received another phone call. Only this one would change her life forever. It was a number I didn't recognize and I typically didn't pick those up in my office. "It wasn't international call, but Deb had a strange feeling. When she picked up, there was a police officer on the other line." "And I was like, what is this about?" The officer was Canadian, and he was investigating a cold case from 30 years ago.

That's when he began to say that they were looking for a wrong stand, and they had believed that they've tracked down through social media. But Deb didn't know a wrong stand. The officer

continued, explaining that Canadian police had been looking for a man named Ron Stan for over 30

years. He disappeared during a fire. "There was a fire. In his barn at night, and initially he was presumed to have been in that fire, and he had left a wife, an infant, and another child." Deb's blood ran cold. She knew what the officer was about to say before he set it. The man she was married to, who she knew as Jeff Walton, was actually the complete fraud.

“He was wrong-stand to this missing person. "Here's the thing about Ron Stan. He was originally”

declared dead. But in reality, he'd been on the run ever since that barn fire." "Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite on humor me with Robert's Michael and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier." This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and Headwriters Streeter side L helped an occapella band with their "Between Songs" banter. "Where does your group perform?"

"We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter." "Wasn't a humor me with Robert's Michael and Friends on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts." The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Rolling Girls. Every match, every upset,

and what it really takes to win on Clay. "Genchen went in." I mean, she went down to three to re-backing up, but I'm delighted. "She's an outsider to win the French, right?" And she likes Clay. "Listen, learner re-backing up is arguably the best play in the world right now, and actually we're not any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck." Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. "Presented by Capital One, Founding Partner of iHeart Women Sports." If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about

“in the news, body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep dive into”

the forensics. Listen to body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's number one podcast

Hi everyone, I'm Cheryl Strade, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share

“that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes,”

adventures, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feeds. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix, so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We come into this world. Fighting for our lives, all I'm going to do is pull out what you already

got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other, and not like a your story versus my

story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yeah, you know exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 11 years into her marriage, debt proctor got a phone call out of the blue from a Canadian police officer. They were looking for Ron Stan, a Canadian man who'd been

missing and later declared dead after an arson fire in 1977, and they believed they'd found him

in the United States. He was hiding out in a rural part of the Cherokee Nation using the name

Jeff Walton. When the police explained this to Deb initially, I thought it was perhaps just a cruel joke. So she asked the officer for proof for details. The more I pushed for dates, times, names, locations, the more I realized, oh, uh, she didn't see much on the phone. She just listened, writing down everything the police told her. Every detail dates, times, information, I still have that note pad. Canadian officials wanted to speak to Jeff or Ron

directly. Deb explained that he was in a care facility during the day because of his memory problems. She confirmed their home address, thanked the officer and hung up the phone in disbelief. I was sitting there when there was a nurse that looked at me from a office door and she said, are you okay? I remember saying, I don't know. I've just had the most bizarre phone call.

“So I went to talk to my director of nursing and she said, get out of here. What in the world?”

She debated whether this phone call was real. If the person on the phone was even a police officer, a coworker who was afraid for Deb suggested another possibility. He probably is in witness protection and you just blew it. So you're probably not safe. Nor is he and they said, we'll go with you to the Cherokee Nation marshals and we will get to the bottom of this. So Deb went straight there. She wanted to know if the call she'd received was real or if Jeff

could be in witness protection. An investigator took Deb's concern seriously and started making calls. I gave her the cell number, the badge number, and everything from the officer that called. And she did call and she confirmed every last detail. She verified that Jeff Walton didn't exist. Her husband of 11 years was a missing person. A man named Ronald Stan, who'd faked his death in an arson fire and had been on the run for 30 years.

I was just heart sick. Got sick heart sick. My whole body responded and all I could think of was who are you? How could you do this? When Ronald Stan disappeared from his farm in rural Ontario in 1977, he abandoned his wife and two young sons. In order to escape, he'd lit his barn on fire, killing all the animals. His family watched the blaze helpless, veering that Ron was trapped inside. That poor wife and those two sons

“that he walked away from in this barn fire in the middle of the night. What horror? What pain?”

What trauma that they must have endured, thinking that they were watching him burn up in front of their eyes. Why he'd faked his death? Deb wouldn't find out until much later. In that moment, she just knew she couldn't go home, not to the house she shared with him. He was

plan. Go to the attorney, go the bank and get protection. So that's what I did. She made an

“appointment with the divorce attorney for the following day, and a friend offered to let Deb stay at her”

place while she figured out her next move. I just was in a state of robot just trying to put one foot in front of the other and then formulate a plan on how to tell the family. She met with her sons to break the news and with all of their support, she called Jeff Sun, the one he'd had in America. After he went on the run, after all he was the only child Deb knew about. I loved that boy.

He was my son too, you know. He was a third son. So my heart hurt for him just like it did for my

boys to tell him. Everyone in the family called him little Jeff. He was named after his father. Our father, his father's alias. And his response was, you know, silent initially, as you can imagine, and then just struggling. We both needed some time to just deal. The one person she didn't want to speak with was Jeff. I really did not have any communication with him whatsoever. I just had nothing to say. When the authorities finally got a hold of Jeff, they questioned him and asked to see his

proof of identity. He admitted to everything. In fact, he seemed amused. He made a joke to police

officers asking what took them so long. Because the arson had happened so long ago, the statute

of limitations had expired in Canada and authorities in the U.S. couldn't charge him either. There was no charges to be made here, you know, he's a scam, but there's no charges that I could fall. The only legal action Deb could take was filing for divorce. The domestic violent service of the tribe helped me and just took the papers. And when they served in the papers, he just signed it. He didn't even question it. The news got wind of the story and it was a media frenzy.

Media showed up, some Canada, some Oklahoma, some the UK. I just didn't have any peace. I could rarely go home. My phone rang constantly. I was just completely overwhelmed. Deb's niece dropped to the statement to send to the press on her behalf. And Deb kept tabs on the news.

“That's how she learned Jeff's real-life story. The one he claimed he couldn't remember.”

A journalist with the Toronto star had been reporting on it. Through their investigation, they uncovered a possible motivation for why he faked his death. Evidently, he was messing with young college girls and he was getting ready to get in trouble. At the time of the arson, Ron was working at a college in Canada. He was having a relationship with a local girl who was much younger. The day he went missing, it seemed this information was about to be revealed.

It's not clear how old the girl was, but the threat of being discovered prompted him to go on the run for three decades. Deb also learned how he pulled it off. When he left Canada in the fire and came to New Orleans, he said, "I've got to find a woman with money." He did. In fact,

he had two other marriages he'd never told Deb about. And after he found a woman with money,

he needed papers to validate his new identity. He got a social security from somebody that had died in the 70s. A girl. So he took over her social security. He used his stolen identity to

“find work and even collect social security benefits. That's how he worked in the decades that”

he came to the United States. He used this social security in false name. I don't know how anybody pulls us off. It's so elaborate. When the story broke, Jeff himself spoke to the media about how and why he faked his death. And he seemed to revel in it. He saw that attention. He wanted to be a star. He said he chose the name Jeff because it was the name of his infant son he abandoned in Canada. And the last name Walton was inspired by the TV show The Walton's. It sounded

like a classic American last name. As for the documents he used to marry Deb, they appeared to be forged. I had seen his birth certificate. And I still have it. But when you look,

in the U.S. with identity fraud. And what about his elaborate stories? Like being a prisoner of

“war in Vietnam. It's all made up. That's why he was so resistant to using the VA. He never”

fought in the Vietnam War. He wasn't even an American citizen. The POW story? Well, he ripped those details straight out of a movie called Platoon, starring Charlie Sheen and his football career at Ohio State with Woody Hayes. There was never anybody that played football for Woody Hayes by his night. Ever. Deb was left wondering if anything he'd ever told her was true. Today, she doubts if he'd even swung a golf club before she met him. After all his lies were exposed,

one of Deb's friends finally came clean about something. Remember the golf trip where Deb's friends iced them out? Well, back then, the group had discovered that he cheated all day. He never

counted strokes and when he was out of bounds, he never counted it. He cheated and basically stole

“a pot of money from Deb's friends. That's why they were never invited to play with the group again.”

Even his memory issues were a lie. When he talked to the press after the fact, he seemed to remember every detail just fine. So what was really going on that day when he went missing from the facility and was found at the bank. Deb suspects he was planning an escape. She also wonders if he targeted her because she lives in a rural part of the Cherokee Nation. It's very possible because, look, this is rule. This is a dating road. Maybe he did think,

hey, I can get out in the woods in rural Oklahoma and continue the hide. One of the most baffling aspects of his deception is that visit to Canada a few years into their marriage. Back then, the reunion seemed completely normal. But behind the scenes, Jeff had asked all of his family members to use his new name instead of calling him Ron. They said they were so happy to see him again that they obliged. They did it because they'd lost him once and they didn't

want to lose him again. I think they were just so happy to have him back in their lives. There's clearly so much more to his family dynamics than she'll ever know. It still doesn't sit right with her. What makes it okay that you support this kind of deception? In the beginning, she didn't even know how to refer to him. What named a calling by? Whether to call him Ron or Jeff. But I had a really dear friend. She named him Riff.

And so for a while, when I referred to him, it was Riff. But now I usually just said Jeff. In the weeks after his double life was revealed, Deb was emotionally destroyed.

It all happened in her first year of sobriety. Jeff moved back to New Orleans with his son.

And Deb was left alone in the house they shared. I just remember it was a profound moment. It's the duality of, oh my God, what in the world? Along with, you have to live.

“You have to deal with this and go on. And I remember just laying in the floor just face down”

and just saw me and saying, my God, how does another human do this to a human in the guys of love? In that moment, she couldn't get up. It felt like her world had ended. I just had so much pain and confusion. My God, on my knees, I leaned into a chair and I just kept praying and asking for help. And just if you can get me on my feet, I will go for it. I will keep my sobriety. I promise, I promise. I made a commitment to live life, to help others, to be the best

person I can, to be loving, kind. I mean, those were the things I'd always been. But I was not going

to let this make me harsh and hateful. In the throws of despair, she gained vivid clarity. You know, we often talk of spiritual awakenings. I feel like I've had a few in my life, but that was profound, profound. And when I stood up, you know, I was still crying, but I wasn't suffering as much. I didn't feel the pain as deep at the trail or shock. And I knew that when I stood up, that it was

She got up that day and she stayed on her feet ever since. I made a commitment to do that in that

moment and I've never turned back and I've never tried to rewrite the story and I don't want to live

“in bitterness. I still wanted to be openhearted and help others. And that's what set the tone for the”

gears to where we are today. She's now 11 years sober. I maintained sobriety. I was dedicated to my meetings and I was dedicated to the spiritual journey and dealing with my loss and grief and shock. She took on a leadership role in her tribe as director of a program providing resources and support to victims of domestic violence. I would say you still got to stay working on your emotional health because it's a tough service. What I know for sure is that we can't help others

adequately or appropriately if we haven't began our own work to hear. I feel like I'm more effective in

“these last years because of all the work I've done. In 2019, she got a call from Jeff's son,”

Jeff, and passed away. It was a sense of relief. But also all the emotions that flood into that moment you just have to hold them. In the last few years, her life has taken an unexpected turn.

I've just recently married on September 7th and I never saw it come in both of us or

never. And it was the most beautiful wedding outdoors. Overlooking the lake, it was just beautiful, romantic, just wonderful. After all, she did make a commitment to being open-hearted. Her new husband meets her at her level and he's put in the work too. He has also sobered him 40 something years. Both of us love golf. Both of us love music. It's just a blessing for us both. We feel so grateful. It was too bad we're meeting each other at 17.67. But here we are.

“We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why did you want to share your story?”

If my story could help others identify lies from their partner earlier, that's one part. The real part is we can hear and we can have a good lie and we can live well. The trauma and the pain and the suffering and the sorrow, we have the potential to just be an amazing human on the other side. Leave your heart open, love others, help others, learn boundaries, set limits. On the next episode of Betrayal, my mom was the first one to be lake.

Just the same off at all to you. It was really the first time someone like said something that made

me think, "What do you mean off?" Like I had never considered doubting it.

A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of glass podcasts, a division of glass entertainment group in partnership with iHeartPodcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass in Jennifer Fasin, who was stayed and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique LeBord, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristen Melchiri and Caitlyn Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Cringcheck, audio editing

and mixing by Matt Salvecchio, additional editing support from Tanner Robbins, Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines, music library provided by my music, and for more podcasts from iHeart visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guide, not quite on humor me with

help make you funnier this week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, streeter side L,

“helped an occupile band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?”

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Wasn't a humor me with Robert's Michael and friends on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about

“in the news, body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep dive into”

the forensics. Listen to body bags, with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and

“start listening. Blood trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is”

unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. I've seen something in the road. I guess the late dog was a sleeping pet that there was a full of blood. Somebody somewhere, no shelter. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season two is out now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.