Hater Season: Henry Zebrowski

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I'm of course your host, Ed Zitron. (music) Apologies to everyone for missing the monologue last week. I know many of you have threatened my life. That's a joke you're all very lovely about it.

But we are back this week, it's hate to season.

“I'm going to be honest, hate to season has been so much fun that everyone is just, I think”

we're just going to do this forever.

And today I'm joined by an incredible guy.

I'm going to be one of two divas coming together to maximize our joint slay. I'm joined by Henry Zabrowski, of Lost Podcast on the left. Henry how are you? I am good. I am filled with rage, with rage about one.

I'm ready. Honestly, I hate the goddamn metaverse. It's, I saw it pop up the other day. I saw a person mention the metaverse. And there is one guy, Jamie something, guy on to it, you can find him.

Who I watched him go from crypto, from clubhouse, to web three, to NFTs, to metaverse, to AI, and now he's back to metaverse. And I think just people, he's wrong, he's wrong, but also he's professionally wrong. But that's crazy. Like I, people are very unfair to me about my correct opinions, but it's insane to me how many of these consultant swindlers still exist.

And how there are still people being like, yeah, dude, yeah, the metaverse is still him and I'll pay you. I'll do this. Because they're desperate. They're desperate for some other realm of productivity and work.

There's something they really thought they had us pegged during COVID. Like at some point, they were like, they miss work. They miss work, they miss, they miss, they miss people, they miss us. And they have this idea of like, oh, the social network, what we have to do is convince them. They're hanging out.

We have to convince all of them that they're all just going to like, oh, no, no, it's, it's, it's work, sure, but it's like a lifestyle, work is like your lifestyle.

“Do you remember that whole period as well, just before the metaverse where they were all”

of the remote work articles that were like, we're missing the serendipity of the office. We're missing it. You can't bump into a friend at the office and have these thoughts.

I love that because it was always written by a boss because you could tell because everyone

else at work is like, I just want to put my fucking headphones and I just want to get my job done, please leave me alone. We have crawled into the heads of these giant corporate guy, like that's kind of what we're living in. I feel like we're living in an enjoyment, like we're in a ketamine fuels dream right now.

Like we are in a, I live inside the ketamine train, but what is the, who is the dreamer? The dreamer is people like Zuckerberg and these guys that are kind of forming how they

They're trying to say, we love work.

We love productivity as a, as a, as a, as a, as a animal, as a human animal, they believe we crave, crushing it, we crave dividends, we love hustling. We love hustling and I've just, we've just been in this place now where we're kind of being dragged through their version of the future, which is just not panning out, you know, like, yeah, the metaverse, I did a show on the metaverse once.

Right. Right.

“I didn't need to leave in the metaverse, which, which one?”

It was something that could rise in worlds. It was something, yes, it was something like, so everybody was a little weeble wobble person, right, because they had to eliminate gender. You remember when they had to go through a whole thing, because they had to eliminate lower halves of people.

Oh, yes, because they said they were bringing in legs, but then the legs didn't pan out, legs, yes, because legs mean penis and balls or vagina, right? And so what happened was, is that as soon as those were in play, as soon as legs were in play, penis and balls and vaginas were in plays, and then immediately the people starting to get sexually harassed on the metaverse, but did they ever put the legs in?

I thought they weren't able to get them in a tool. No, because that was the, let's just say, I believe you saw several, attempts at this, this idea of like, we can't put in legs. You can't put in legs? You mean, it's tell me you built an entire second reality, and you can't put in

fucking legs? All right. I mean, I mean, practically speaking, put it in functional legs that mapped to

move from the user would be difficult, but I was just, I never really understood.

“Yeah, then could I leave them with your, what's the extent of legs?”

I have like a flat, like a candle, who cares? And as soon as people saw legs, they saw genitals, and they started saying horrific stuff to each other on the metaverse, and so they got rid of legs. Tell me about this metaverse experience you have, so this new year's Eve. So I was asked to do, it was during COVID.

I was asked to do the comedy for a New Year's Eve party, quote unquote, in a buildout. It was like a metaverse buildout. It was one of those that they had done it for this specific event, and the goal was that people were walking around this virtual space, and they would come upon you, and then your camera would turn on, and you'd see, quote unquote, the real person there.

I was in a character, or he was wildly invasive. Everybody was obviously had agreed to it, but I was cheddar goblin, which is a character

“from a movie called Mandy, right, I was playing, yeah, this is my life, this is called”

the entertainer's life ad, I mean, yeah, they gave you a thousand dollars, that's worth it. It was, it was for the tears, because then I put in, I propped up, I have a buildout of the cheddar goblin from Mandy, right? I have a pole from the original model.

I put it in a chair, and I put it on a, I put a camera on it, and then I was talking as him, roasting people that would arrive to the little comedy buildout, that they had. And the thing is, is that, it's what happened after every single COVID stream show, is that obviously it was janky, it was strange, people were not, even though they thought, they were to prep that their cameras would turn on, they were not prepped that their cameras

would turn on, and they would get scared, and it was bad, you know, it's like all that type of stuff, but in the end, it really is, which is what I discovered afterwards is the closing of the laptop after this, and the silence, oh, was it just like constant noise in there? Well, just the idea of like, as a performer, like, this was kind of one of the big issues

I had, it just even just during COVID, which is the cavernous silence after the show that you have now done on Zoom, and what you've been in a sort of similar acronym of real life

for half a second, and then as soon as the laptop closes, all that illusion is shattered,

and now you're just sitting in silence, and there's a part of me that thinks that that is kind of the issue with the phenomenon as a whole, which is this fake, a fake version of society that they wanted to recreate for us in order for us to obey whatever rules they want to set up for us, and so like, as I was in this, I was like, oh, I'm a part of the normalizing process of this, like this is a, I am a person, and I am here doing

this as a way to show all of you, look, even if the world is uninhabitable, even if all of the corporations of the world make the surface, a giant, like, lava stream, the rest

don't worry, there can still be any type of shaman you like, you can be there, you can

“be underground, we can live underground, we don't need all of this real life, right?”

I also think it's just, to your point about living inside the heads, it is really funny watching them try and sell, like, make stuff to sell us when they do not speak to real people, like, yeah, what, what do you fucking pigs like? You know, I've sitting at desks, right? You want to, uh, walk around, uh, to the world? I guess, look, it's the feel you pakes like this, right? What do you think? You know, the human version of the right now

what I see is the, the IRL version of the metaverse are the corporate, like, it is not only a, it's an apartment complex, it's where you work, it's also where the, you get your slopp bowls, and then you can go over here, and you can get your face injections, and you can go over here, and you can do the thing that makes you look and sound, and you can get the clothes and make, look, just like everybody else. Like the Google version of Worry Free

from sorry to bother you. Yes, yes, there is, that's, that's like one soft roll out, right for I do believe it. All of this, back though, they've started pulling back on corporate benefits, so I think it is going to be, the, the moment a company offers housing within

“their campus, that's how you know that they've just lost the plot, and they're like, how”

don't fuck it. How do we do this? We've just given housing, I guess. I genuinely believe all of this is the dry run for some form of United States of Peter Teele. See, that's the thing though, because I, I see that argument, but whenever I read them or hear them talk, I actually look at the success of them trying to do like the network state stuff,

which always seems to go poorly, because running a city or a country is hard. It's hard.

They also see it for the part, and I see them put like AI in general is this thing, it's very much a culturalist person. I personally doesn't know anything, how they think knowledge or cultural works. Culture is just when you go to the art spender, and you like, what, please, I've got a hundred dollars. How much art can I get for this? Oh, I just humans hanging out spending time. I am cultured too. Yeah, it's like, it's this culture is literally

just up, there was a, not to, not to minimize it, but it's almost a, to, in my mind, it's, it's a product of our connectivity as an animal. This is psychic animal, like I see, that's the point of it. And so they're just trying to, they don't, they think that's gay. Okay, they, they have, no, they really have like a deep homophobia towards anything emotional or sensual, so feminine is what they get down. I do believe that, that is the literal

vibe that I get, which is this idea of you look at Peter Teele talking, look, these people

“talking, and I guess that's what it is, is that they still, but you, but you saying this,”

like a self-loathing to it, I just mean in terms of his, the way they view it as frivolous and stupid, but our, our need for connection is something that is replaced, that is very takes you away from the crime set. Yes. And that is, and it's extremely easy to place. And so what they didn't do little things what you were saying to is the idea of a corporate culture. It's like when I was working in office jobs, the idea of a culture, I was like, oh, no, no,

I'm here to get health insurance. Like, I'm not here to meet you, buddy. Like, I'm here to for health insurance. You know, like, I'm here to work, like, to just get the fuck out of here and go home, but they want, yeah, they just want all of us. They want us every one, every minute of our fucking breathing lives. Well, that kind of reminds me again, around just before the met of us, all of the anti remote work stuff that talked about

office cultures, like office cultures so important, even eat office culture, office culture is what brings the companies together. Messing for most of these articles was a definition of office culture, because it was just kind of work propaganda. And it's doing what your boss wants you to do. Yes. Oh, that is what office culture means, because which means you're living in a dictator, you're living in his, you're living in his

reality. And on top of that, it's like, you, oh, so you're saying we should have a culture that involves supporting labor and respecting labor or in valuing work and supporting us. They're like, oh, God, no. No, no, no, sorry, sorry, sorry. Don't get us wrong. It's the culture of the office, not the people in it. It is the food bar tables. Yes, we have both tables. There's a, we got a never ending super. Mm. Mm. Mm. He loves. I used, I used

to have a, we work long ago and I never tried the beer. And when I finally tried it, I'm

like, wow, these people fucking hate us, because it was like the worst beer. They could

like a beer that tasted, not quite as bad as not Eli, but it's their, it's the

we work of beer. Yes, it really is. Yeah, it's like the best law. Yeah, it's the best law. These, I, I find it, we are not living up to their expectations. Yeah, I think that's what it is is that we're really not living up to their expectations. We're not dying fast enough. We're not working hard enough. And that's the thing is that we really should be working and dying up until the very minute. The very minute that we die technically,

“we should be productive in that. It is, and that's why, you know, when I hear the argument”

like about how people like me should be having kids. And then I hear where the arguments coming from. And I hear it's about me keeping up the ever exponentially rising capitalistic

output. That's really all they're concerned about. It's other enough workers. Yeah, it's

not funny. We're going to get the listener, the occasional listeners who are like, because occasionally, I think we've got a fairly left-leaning audience, but occasionally, I'm sure you're listening now. One of you guys who's like at a straight up, like, somehow a sent-to-left person who's very pro-workable. Like, wow, wow, wow, office culture is importance that everyone knows what they're doing. They're job. I know why I'm doing

my job. My money. Why am I not taking it now? I guess not. Guess it's a real job. But I remember the offices I've worked in, the one that was the worst was the one that I actually respected the most for just not pretending there was a work culture. They didn't

“have any of that share. They were just like, you need to do this enough or we fucking”

fire. It's a PR firm, truly nightmarish place. But it didn't try. No one tried to pretend like, we were a family here. No, we're not. This is jail. Unless you're working at a not-for-profit helping people directly. There is absolutely no reason for you to have a fucking thesis statement outside of where our company that makes goods for people or we provide X and we pay you to do X. That is it. That's all we do. Like, there doesn't

mean have to be special than that. And this is the problem. Is that where I see it from literally, from reality television shows all the way up to this top now. This is like concept of everything has to have like, oh, presented story. Everybody already has to be arriving with a character arc ready to go locked in. And now the bosses are doing that. The bosses have are applying a character arc to us. They are saying, they're trying

to tell us what we are going to do for them. And now I feel like we're in this process of, they are going to try over the next decade or so to kill as many of us as possible, to literally weed out the people that are against it. They're going to make a sick. They're going to put bad things in the food. They're going to pull out all of the things, protecting the environment. They're extremely sure they're going to be able to beat all of those for

themselves. Right. And then what they're going to do is create a break-off civilization. All of this is a dry run for them to leave us behind. The funny thing is, is though, I believe

“you that that's what they may plan. I guess I mean the plan. It's a plan. I don't think”

they're competent enough to prove it because the the metaverse was the, I think clubhouse was the beginning for me, but the metaverse was the moment when I was like, oh, you don't speak to any real people. Like you just a house was the single, dumbest, giantist, flaming, a pile of waste of money of anything I have ever. That was so stupid. I was going to almost use a presidential word, Ed. It was so stupid that the whole thing, I cannot believe

the whole thing needs to be deleted. It was just repackaging intercoms. It was repackaging

a zoom call, a conference call. It's like, I never wanted really, really, really bad

non-produced radio with people that thought they were great. Welcome to clubhouse. You want to hear VCs talk for hours and say multiple slurs. Well, guess we have a place for you. We already have podcasts, man. Yeah. But the thing is though, it was, I remember getting the reason that it got to me clubhouse specifically was because the amount of people I talked to was like, Ed, this is a few, this is a few, this is a few, this is how everything

is going to get done. I've always told me about it. What's your clubhouse strategy? What's your clubhouse strategy? How many times I heard that fucking sentence? And I was just like, this superfluous going to kill all of us. That was like the only, that was my biggest, I was like terrified of dying. Yes, I was like, we're all going to fucking die and you

He's just like the good stuff. I am a podcaster.

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I'm Clayton Nackard. And in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately,

it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final

rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines? It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm

Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. Listen to Love Trapped on the I Heart

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Thank you so much, I heart radio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern 5 p.m. Pacific free at feeps.com or the Veeps app. Yeah, it's, but it was also just a moment where I was like looking at all of these supposedly smart people, all of these people who meant to really know what their fucking talk about. I'm watching them as they just went, yeah, this is this is crazy man. And then at the

same time, I've been reading all this anti remote stuff. And I was like, wait a minute, all of these are written by managers or bosses who aren't in the office. And then it was just kind of obvious, but not least people interact with their businesses or break it a people. So they're just the things that they make do not reflect solving human problems. And then the Metaverse comes along and half most of the media was like, yep, this makes

perfect sense. And I, as a gamer, was like, you were describing World of Warcraft, or like an MMORPG, you're just describing going online in a group. I played have a quest. I have this guy already happened. And also, it looks like somebody read the book, Snowcrash, like one of the one of their aids read the book, Snowcrash at some point in college, vaguely

“describe the concept of making real estate out of nothing, which I think really was what”

the Metaverse was about, was this idea of recreating a world in which they could own everything. Yeah, they wanted to own the next internet. That was very much what's up about one to it. That was the idea is that they would, and they would again, set all the rules. They'd set all the rules. They'd already had set up all the real estate parameters. They'd you'd show up into this like brand new world of a thing. And then you'd be described,

oh my god, there's McDonald's. Oh my god, there's a fucking pizza hut. Oh my god, because

I also feel like that's a part of it. They saw some of the writing on the wall of like, it's going to be hard to get these fuckers back on the office. These fuckers went home, and they're fucking enjoying their food. They're doing it. They're doing this much work, if not more, and they seem happy and fuck that shit fucking hate. Wait, wait, wait, I did see. I want to smell what he's eating. I want to look. I want to hear what he's listening to.

I want to ask him about his wife. I want to look at his wife. I want to think about

“fucking his wife. And so what I think, and that's what I think we're turned into, right?”

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they just then realized like, oh, but what if we could do it? So we can bring them into this other world, and then we own, it's like, yeah, it's, it's we out, then eventually we can let go. Yeah, then we can let go of real life real estate. And maybe we build it all in the, in the metaverse, just like in that great book, Snow Crash.

Anybody read the end? It's a, we could, we could do is we could build up this amazing,

new real estate system while the earth eats itself alive on the surface. I do think that that's the other, what we're also seeing is the other side of this, too, which is why they will all show it up at the inauguration, because they were all so excited for the fact that they were going to just be like, let's boil the planet. Let's boil the surface of the planet.

“And then they have to come to the metaverse. They have to come to us, because we're the only”

ones that are going to have the stuff to protect them. It's really funny as well, because everything you're saying is true, but they left out because they lack of this, they lack of connection to anything. It working. They didn't check if it worked. They also left us out. What about us? It also didn't work. That's the best part. And that's the best part. Is that what they don't know us? Human beings are fascinating. And there's no, they have tried to model us.

They have tried to model us again and again. And they've looked at history and they've done all the number crunching. And they can't figure it out. They can't figure it out. They all of these things fail, because they legitimately are operating in a fancy world. They're operating outside of reality. They because they believe they can literally just put their reality on us. They just think that they can do that and let us. And look at us. And then you see, it's actually super difficult.

You're actually really weird. I actually think part of what broke my brain was in the 2016

election. One Trump won in the first place. I was the first time I saw something. And I was like,

oh, wow. Elections might actually do something. Yeah. It was a good first time I realized that the fix might not be entirely in from people that actually are in control. Yeah, I definitely like, I didn't get particularly political until after that. I will fully admit being completely ignorant of stuff. But if I would, I didn't feel these things and then everything changed. And everything happened. And then it was the suddenly look back what you're like, oh, did I miss everything? And I'm still

learning as well. A lot of this stuff. And I feel like when you saw all of them turn up at the White House, it was so fucking grim. But I saw people who were surprised. And that really made me love. The people were like, wait, what? Huh? Why are they on a kissing? They said three years ago that they liked me. They, who? There's a part of me. You see, this is my problem is that I look at this and I made me laugh. Oh, yes. I finally felt like I'm correct. I'm correct. Yeah. They're all on

they all, they, they, they couldn't give a fuck. No, they couldn't give a fucking shit about our lives. The only reason they want to replace us so bad. And it's a thing. When we're talking about Ed, I actually got turned on your work about this idea that we were going to be hitting this AI wall and I could not be more in agreement. There's a part of my brain that thinks, like, where's the guy that wants to make the trillion dollars that finally makes the little robot

“that puts dirty dishes in the dishwasher machine? That's what we want. What we want is a little”

robot man that I can yell at that can do does laundry, does puts a close away and does the dishes.

Oh, no. Henry, the problem is, is that is that's really difficult. Like that's not enough. They're like,

okay, can we do stuff that would help people? Maybe, I don't know, or watch their flaws. We kind of got vacuum robots, but they're expensive. I'm not talking to scare my dogs. Yeah. I want to think that can pet the dog, but also when it comes down to it, I don't need it to be God in the machine because guess what? The real God doesn't exist and the real God gives children AIDS. I don't need another one. Yeah. Also, I don't know.

None of this works. Like just none of it works. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen,

Like that's what I'm doing. Like that's the thing. Right now, as we talk, I've recently

“been working on this piece about how like anthropic-mitted-in-core they made $5 billion”

cumulatively, like, of all time, which when you follow their previous revenue reports does not make sense. And I'm arguing with people constantly all through today, leading up to this, because what has actually, what the real power of these people is is that they control, like, we live in their world through narratives. The narratives that are created. And it is you, it's true. Yep. It's Elon Musk buying Twitter. Yes. It's Google search. Yes. It's this.

But a lot of it is just institutions like CNN, CNBC, New York Times. I'd like, they are captured, but not necessarily by the entities, but by the ideologies. The ideologies.

Yes. The AI will be big. AI will be big. It's not that it's, oh, it may be. It will be.

We are just, we can't say how. You notice that, too, right? They all are like, all the stuff of that AI and they project to all of these things. But none of them actually says specifically, what do you mean? Like, what are the uses of AI? Like, what exactly you say, oh, it has all these uses. It's inevitable. It's going to replace all of these things. And it's more like, but to what end? How or so? Yes. Like, what to what is it doing that? I don't think it is, dude,

because guess what, man, guess what? They shoot with the fucking waymo when they came out and they said that they could have to kick it to some guy in the Philippines, to dry it and drive it. If it gets things specifically, they start with with Waymo. That's not even generous of AI because they love to say AI so that you can play them. Waymo kind of works. Waymo is interesting because it's interesting.

“It's an actual thing that drives people around. I think that there are a ton of issues that”

I will go into in a future episode. But with, like, large language models, I have been and I'm going to say this in passing. I'm not going to go into death because I don't want them to people to get mad at me, but I'm currently learning to code. And the more I learn about code, the more I get scared about people using large language models to code. Because I don't know. I'm getting worried that there are software engineers out there that can't read code and just copy paste it from

place or that they're willing to ship code that kind of looks right, but they don't really understand. I'm not saying this is all software engineers, but I'm worried that the software engineers, they're building these LLMs for all the ones that don't know what they're fucking talking about. But I think that that is exactly what we're seeing here. Oh, no. I think that we are really literally think that this is a, it's all human led. All of the issues are human led. It is still

because you would need a perfect AI to make a perfect AI, right? You'd need it's it's too human. It's too janky. We are my, my whole view, one of my more, I guess, I guess, I call it a mystical view.

“But I think one of the problems I have with AI is I do believe that there is like a”

1% of the human brain that we just can't. We literally can't see if we wanted to see it because we're looking at ourselves that there's like a, like in terms of just the observer, gets in the way of the thing that we need to be looking at, right? Like we are,

there's a part of our consciousness that we will never duplicate.

Evan, we just won't do anything that's just unthinking. We don't. This is what I'm saying, is that at the very bottom of it, we don't really understand what the key is. So how is a bunch of cargo, short-wearing basement dwelling coders sitting in a place that probably never kissed a girl or a man before? And then now they're going to make the new human thought machine? You mean, like, that's kind of like what we're seeing. So what we're seeing here is it's all

based, it's turtles all the way down. And it's just going to keep going. With the software engineers, I found that there's this real, we're seeing this schism between those types of basement dwellers in cell types. There are the coders who know just enough to get by and keep their job without being fired. And then the people who actually do software engineering who are relatively normal folks who are just going about their lives. And there are

people, like the true, the view it is, because I know that it can go as far as to being like an art form in like a, it's a whole thing. But again, that points to not to create an absolutely bedrock structure for a new conscious entity on. It doesn't sound like the way that works. What's the summation of what code is? He's not next. Nick Suresh, good night, mine, made the point where it's like coding is not just writing code. There is an art form to it,

Cal Newport as well, as well. Where it's like, there is a cultural awareness. There is the awareness of how one construct stuff. If you, I don't know the way I put it is like,

only kind of knew what materials were in it. It's mostly, I think it's mostly bricks.

That I legitimately think that that is another big issue. Is that it's, they're low, they're low balling. The creation of the new god. You know, like, they're literally like nickel and diamond it with guys and they're creating these dumb deadlines and they're creating all of these things. Where it's like, you know, if Peter Teele really wanted to take over the very globe, yes, to my mind, yes, I have more like a thousand year view. Like go with the old, like the

other way that they view the world more and like China and stuff like that. Where they're like, he needs more of a longer view. Yeah, but it was going to take that forward. He's not American capitalism. I'm American. Tell me about it, bro. I know about it. I got fucking agents fucking breathing down my neck every day. All right. And I do podcasting. I kind of imagine what these idiots, all these people in the fake money realm and then the fake computer

god realm are what the pressure is from the inside for them all to make all this bullshit money. I have to wonder if the people inside the lab, although at this point, as they kind of, it's become kind of obvious that like, this isn't really doing the thing. They don't actually,

“they haven't made any gods. And that was just kind of like, what we're doing. Well, because I think”

I think they're all just fucking not in like a completely labor freeway. They're just like doing experiments and spending like millions of dollars of compute a date, being like, what if this works? What if this works? What if this works? What if this works? Ed does this? I'm a CEO. That's what I've learned when I've learned about being a CEO. What? Is it the only job replaceable by AI? Is a CEO? Oh, what? It's literally, it's the easiest. It's the dumbest. They have nothing,

but like not to be like, I work very hard, blah, blah, blah, blah. They have plenty of time. They they can just sit and think about these dumb things all day and play around with it and they're just waiting for enough. Like, I also also think there's a massive, obviously it's capitalism, but the lateral moves these guys just get to make. Like, they get to just sort of like decimated company, decimated bunch of stuff, blues everything, and then they get to just kind of jump

ship to another thing and I tell you my favorite one. So, there's a guy called Jayperique,

“who was the co-sea of a company called LaceWorks I believe. I'm just going to check that on there”

and let's see, LaceWorks. So, this company, yeah, LaceWork. So, this company was famous for doing an event where they handed out $30,000 worth of Lulu lemon gift cards in a night. To convince people to use their software. So, that guy ran that company into the fucking ground. And, you know what happened? He got a job at Meta. And now he heads up one of the AI divisions in Microsoft. The meritocracy's real. What is it? Do they not, at some point it has to almost

be purposeful? It has to be. Do you think that they're doing almost in a way? What if there is a game being played to? Where they all know it's not going to happen. And we all know it's not going to happen. But they are, we're all like, all of these middle men have propped up the economy with this shit. So, it almost kind of feels like it's almost like they're making money on the constant rugpole and the moving of all of the stuff back and forth. It's almost like maybe it's good to

hire somebody that will purposely blow it all up so that they never have to get it done.

I just think it's more stupid than that. I think it is. They hire people who look and sound like them, who they've worked with before, who have the right things on LinkedIn, who then go, who then can say that I have to stare at the error of the business city. I call it where it's like these people are just morons and if you look there morons. If you look at them as dipshits without much strategy, the world actually makes a way more sense.

Then this is what we've been saying. We've been saying on the show. This idea of like trying to come back from conspiracy theory and just understand that there's just way more human beings being extremely bad at really important jobs. Yeah. And those are the humans that run these companies.

'Cause like if you've never heard such an Adela talk, see you have Microsoft, it is like sustaining

100 concussions a second. It's insane. He meanders. There was a interview I saw him give in Davos, I think. Well, he spoke for three straight minutes, two a yes or no question.

“And it's just like, and this is, I think as a journalist, you should just be able to get out like”

a taser at that point. You don't have to use it, but you can just like start crackling it a bit, like yep. Yeah, let me also just see it. What is it any, is there, why does no one ever just say just straight to stand up and be like, excuse me, sir, what in the living hell are you talking about?

living fuck is going on? What do you do? I want you to tell me what you did today from the moment you woke up until when you got here. I want to hear what you did for the money. I, and like that's

the thing. They will never answer that because a lot of it is just I read emails like drank coffee.

I went to lunch. I went to a meeting. I didn't really listen. Hey, see those shops extremely important. Okay. When I have my executive time, Rob knows, my producer, he knows. When I'm there, and I am in my ballecid, some new lessons, you think I'm sleeping. Yeah. I'm thinking, dreaming of the mind dojo. I'm in my mind dojo. That's where I do every day. I do my karate,

“and I think about different ways for me to spend our money. You know, it takes a lot of effort”

and work. As a CEO to go, hey, do this. Hey, if you guys saw it about not having buttons on this, you know, I mean, like, I kind of love those. That's stuff. I was like that Steve Jobs is a genius, and it's just like making that a buttons. Well, Steve Jobs was a genius in the same way. I know, he was, no, no, I don't mean this in a defensive way. I mean genius in quotation marks, because it was like, what if it was good? What if instead of it, instead of being clicky buttons,

it was a touch screen, but because touch screens have been shared, what if they were good and responsive? And people use them when, wow, this is fucking great. It's come up with that. It's like,

that's like what I'm saying. It's something worked. Why, like, that's a other thing that I've never

really understood. And I feel like there's like, I'm just dumb in that way where I was like, I feel like when it comes to the environment, that there is a lot of money in saving the environment. Yes, right? It feels like in my head, there's somebody that's going to maybe clean the ocean that will also then become a trillion here. And I feel like that could be a really good focus on what we need to do in the future, and you can make money. I just don't understand. And I just feel like I'm

a silly dumb, maybe I'm a bad capitalist. I learned that I could give all my people raises, and it really doesn't affect my fucking bottom line, because my bottom, it's ridiculous. It's just fucking ridiculous. It's short-term inasm, because if you think of it, you probably wouldn't make money immediately from saving the environment. You wouldn't make it.

“Yeah. So, no, you sell some penguins. Honestly, dude, there's ways to get out of it.”

It's fabulous. It just gets some pay. Round up a bunch of good healthy penguins. You sell them to an elementary school. Like, it's like, it's stuff like that. You do certain things. Or you get your ways to do it in fun that ways. There's fun things. We're on a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

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I'm Clayton Nackard, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final

rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show? Made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. This season, an epic battle of he said she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I am done nothing to get hurt if I don't f*ck! Brassler! Listen to Love Trap on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped with the UK, a vocing horror, and disbelief. Every one thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy

Leppi. Lucy Leppi has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the full story?

doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it.

To ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Leppi was. No voicing of any skepticism are doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Next Monday, our 2026 iHeart podcast awards are happening live in South by Southwest. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate

the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge and passion. We'll all be on full display. Thank you so much, iHeart Radio. Thank you

to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8pm Eastern 5pm Pacific

free at feeps.com or the Veeps app. I also just think solar power is kind of magical. And power is a kind of magical. Like that stuff. But if you think of it in the short term way, it's weird because what I'm about to describe is buying batteries and solar panels before you make much money off of them, such as just to be clear, a capital expenditure, which will lead to an eventual payoff. Now that they hear and they go fuck no, that sounds terrible. However, if they're like

invested in a bunch of GPUs, for a possible return, probably not, they're like fuck yeah, that makes perfect sense. Because they're all trapped in the past. They keep, because these people are

“so disc and I think i always say it's like they don't have problems. They don't have to fix them.”

So they look at the world and they go, what are my problems? Well, I don't have enough money. What

do poor people like? Tiktok and hamburger, I guess? I mean, you saw the, did you read that Epstein file that one email? There was one that went back and forth about the idea of it was an extremely racist email from, I forgot it was somebody within, forget who was explaining to Jeffrey Epstein's like, look, you see the same people was about jazzy buying into the NFL and they were doing this, this, this commercial with jazzy and he's like, look, you see that's

the same, they're doing, they're advertising to the people who should be super angry. It's exactly what we're going to do. You see, look, you just gave them exactly what they wanted. That's all they care about, which I think is minimizing of human beings, obviously, because I think that there's more than that, because what they've just done is, we do actually, our countries actually, which I'm certain you're well aware of. Ed is kind of in a deep turmoil right now, and there's

protests in every single major city that exists almost 24/7 and they're just not talking about it. And that's really the issue, is that there was just, they're just trying to delete that out of the

“narrative as this. It's funny as well, because if you want to make people happy, you make food”

cheaper and better, and you make a better thing. And you make that general life better. But it's easy to do, to fucking fap. I actually ran in a really good, the idea of bringing manufacturing to people, or so if he had done one single, maybe good thing, maybe anybody could have a good, a favorable opinion what's going on, but we are nothing, nothing could have it, right? Nothing's good is happening. And we are, we've just now

started new war and we, and I got a Florida, the grocery resource expensive as they are in Los Angeles. Jesus Christ. You know what I mean? Like, and they don't see the difference in Florida, they can put it down by groceries. They don't buy groceries. They don't buy, like, these people don't buy groceries. They don't, I genuinely wonder if they have someone who brings them like a soda. Like, do they go to the fridge? Do you think these, I mean, like, like, like, that's the thing,

because I think the, they see the world as friction to be removed. They see every experience as friction and they, at the top of the power of removed all friction, such as, they don't be unexpected people. No. There's, they don't get talked to by anyone. They don't want to talk to and indeed can reject anyone they want. They, uh, any such, anything they don't want to do. So things like, oh, I got to go to the bathroom. I got to go do my laundry. I got to go, I'd load the dishwasher.

Maybe the dishwasher is like something we can order to make fun. Was washing dishes sucks, laundry sucks. They're not trying to fix those problems. Well, the trying to fix is, um, what do you people do? Well, you do something and I want to get rid of that. So I've created a large language model that will tell you what will do anything, I guess? Yeah, because that's

“all it will be friends with it. And I think that that is also an important thing we have to”

constantly call it, which is they're not AI, they're language models. There's no, there is no intelligence

and people are like, oh, well, you know, but they're pretty smart. And I'm like, I, they're not smart.

I don't think you, it is easy to, to mimic how we talk. It's, we aren't, because this is the thing. The human mind is unknowable. The human mind is endlessly complex. Our communication, however, is extremely patterned. We know how to, we, it is, we have so, um, a common, I enless amounts of examples of human conversation and it's easy to mimic. But he's the thing about thought. I don't know about you, but my thoughts are not linear. No, I've got, like, rockets going

off in my head constantly, not like genius thoughts. It's like stupid thoughts. It's like, oh, what are you doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

do I need to be probably not, like, things like that constantly, like human thought is chaos.

And if you're a listener by all means email me easier, better offline.com and tell me how you think,

“because I think that a lot of these people want to believe that they sit there and they”

enter their mind dojo and they do their guncata from equilibrium to think. And then the genius spits out. Because if you do that, you think large language models are genius. They also, it goes back to my thing where it's, they're all looking at the past. They believe that the only way to tell the future is by just looking at the past and going, as kind of like that, you know, sort of fucking like was, you know, meanwhile, we are heading into, I love, you know,

I'm a big, I love Terence McKenna and that kind of shit. And I love his concept of the idea of

we're in this like novelties zone. Okay, go on. Tell me more. Get the universe, longs for novelty and builds novelty out. And that life doesn't, it doesn't get, like, but he was the way you're describing it. So it's like, instead of like imagining our technology

“and our society ever going upwards towards some form of utopia, we're actually endlessly folding”

in on top of ourselves like a fractal, right? Like we're constantly folding, we're slowly breaking large groups into smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller niche micro groups. There's more and more layers to a single subject. The more and more information that is readily available to the human consciousness, we just complicated again and again and again and again. And that what we are in, and that's where we're going to be headed to is more unique situations as we have more

information to deal with it. As each generation came up before, we operated largely, each country, each area, the operated in a sort of like a vacuum of information and kind of had to do a tone thing and develop those stuff. This is the kind of like we're heading into an area where everybody knows what everybody's doing at all times. And it's going to change how we behave.

“Yeah, it's going, it's going, it already is. It's going to change. And I think that that is kind of”

what we're seeing now is that these things are nothing can play out. Like in another world, like in another country, I could have seen a thing with January 6th, back in the day, the insurrection and in another country, the White House would have been burnt to the ground if people had been mass executions that style. And I do believe that the internet created another world where they observed themselves insurrecting. Yes, they were posting insurrection. Yes, they

didn't understand, they couldn't understand that they were being history. They were walking through the thing as if they were on their own cell phones watching somebody else do it. That's like the way I describe it, which is a, I think, a new phenomenon. Like you were like watching a bunch of people doing a pro, doing a, what used to be like an inherent human way of changing our government. Right. And you used to be a way we used to do it. And attack on the very fabric of society.

We used to get together and hang a bunch of guys. You know what I mean? It was like a thing that we used to do. And now that it's not, I feel like that's up what we're seeing here is this effect, is that we're all on camera. And so it's going to affect how we behave. I see, I have this theory that I like that I love saying, even though it doesn't map to the thing called the beginning of history, which is just that it is no longer illustrative to use history to explain stuff. It is no

illustrative. It's, you can't, you're like, we are not like everyone's like, okay, we've worked everything out. It's just a question of going up from here. Great. No, I actually think what's happening is we have done stuff for decades based on looking backwards, that the situations we've

doing is instead of going, well, we didn't do this before. So we're going to keep being nice. It's just

“what if I didn't do that? A lot of the boundary pushing is just the result of ignoring what the”

core and was. And a lot of the rationalizations for a lot of tech stuff comes from looking at the

past. It's the same bullshit, Uber lost a amount of money. No, it didn't. 32.9 billion is a lot of

money, but open AI race, 42 billion dollars in the last year. Amazon Web Services cost a lot of money. Actually, not normalised for inflation. Amazon Web Services cost about 38.9 billion dollars in 11 years. Amazon is going to spend 200 billion dollars in cap X to 26. The actual historic comparisons are used as wasteable, Kate people. It's don't worry about it. This didn't happen before. And the reason I say the beginning of history is you need to start looking forward. That's

what everyone is like stop pretending to because things didn't happen before. Have none of you played crabs? Anything can happen? Anything can happen? Anything can happen? Yeah, it's just, I don't know, I believe it entirely. I think that we are, we have been let loose from those examples. I think that once we understand, but I think this goes all the way to a psychic thing though. I think this goes straight to this. Full to an idea of human beings, not fully understanding what they're capable of

and their potential at all times. I think that we have accepted a very low position in reality

as this amazing quantum computer walking around fired, like literally, like I do, it gets a little

“in the wooly area. But it's the truth is that they were capable of a lot. And I think that they”

make a lot of money on debasing the human spirit. And so yeah. And that's the idea. The idea is that we are, we need them. They're nothing. We're nothing without them. We have to be constantly entertained by them. We need to be, oh, we're just as hungry as, like, all is kind of shit. And we just have to do more of, no, we're not going to do that. And then we're going to do naked bike ride. And said, we're going to do this thing. Like literally, like, I know that's a ridiculous,

but there needs to be more of that sort of culture jamming, which we're already seeing. And I think that, no, I fully agree because it's, I say that, like, I've taught myself a lot of economics and accountancy in the last year, because a lot of people said you couldn't possibly understand this. I was like, okay, let me find out. I think that everyone underestimates human beings. I think the, many of my listeners, I actually with last podcast, I imagine you get this as well.

People like, oh, I couldn't possibly understand something so complex. I have listeners who email me complex economic theories, who are like builders and teachers and intellectuals. Oh, yeah, yeah. The human, they want you to believe that you are mediocre. And that the summation of your life is a large language model, which is just everything on the end of that crammed into something.

“And that you don't need to think this, you must think this is intelligent, because if you do that,”

you look down on yourself. And you'll be easier to sell to, easier to capture, and easier to use. Because in the end, when you use a large language model, it is training you. I saw a really interesting statement that I, I forgot where it was, but it was like the idea that we're in this, we're being governed by gigantic economic and political forces that are all under the, the guys of you don't really care, though, do you? Right? Like, it's this idea of

we're now in this area where it's a bunch of guys. Well, like, well, you never cared about this stuff.

So, what do you care? What do you care about this thing? What do you care what we do? You're just like, just fucking each slap and go to work, or I'll kill you. All right. Why do you care? I'd like you care. You know, by more fucking stuff, where? Yeah, shit the fuck up. Right? Just shit the fuck up, whatever, just like that's, and it's going to take us to say, I do care. I do actually care about him being. I care that you've assigned masked shock troops to fucking arrest children.

You're fucking fucking, that fucking warehouse is the prison people. I care about the Epstein files. I care about them a great deal. Fun fact, Henry, um, did you know that the CEO of LinkedIn, per J mail, read Hoffman, he, uh, he actually, uh, endorsed Jeffrey Epstein on LinkedIn. And I refused to believe that. Well, it's sadly in the files. What's the fun? You mean that CEO of this information? I fucking thing. When I read that, I was crying with laughter,

by association because they fucking went to the island. But like, you were the CEO of LinkedIn,

and you endorsed Jeffrey Epstein. Could not find out what for? God knows. Did you do that into, well, you see, my own, my own pet obsession is Epstein's connections to the comedy world,

“which is just, I have on the face of it. Uh, it is just, you know what I'll tell you, man?”

I'll say a year of so many years of being nervous around people. It is so nice to know that every single person I've ever liked is just not shit. And they get all absolutely suck my deck. Yeah, it's, you know, it's, there's a release. There's a release of like the guys at book, Jay, just for laughs, you used to be connected to him. Timothy Shamalese, uh, PR person, his, her, his, his publicist, Peggy Seagull is connected to him. The guys from the interlocken that

trained, chapalron and all those people that didn't make all these, these superstars, he was like he gave him $450,000. So it's like all of this stuff where you're like, I'm really ready to tell all of these guys to go fuck themselves. And Jay Mal was great as well. You could just go in there and type the name of anyone you meet. And hopefully they're not in there. You just do that, man. I don't recommend you do that. That's all I do. That's all I, like, every time I meet and you

“person, I'm like, yeah, me, just let me just run that name through Jay Mal. Oh, where were you?”

Where do you do? Where were you in 2018, by the way? It's so weird though. It's like, Sergei Bryn and Larry Page are in there. Like, Sergei Bryn definitely seems to have at some point associated with that scene. Nothing. Nothing in the tape made it really about it. It's, well, then you also look at his connections with the moon, his all of that kind of stuff. But I

hope, yeah, yeah, the awesome thing. I always believe all of that, though, I actually got a great

breakdown on the show about that from a listener or again, how our listeners and some, it's more, it's more, it's more, it's more educated. It's so fucking cool. Isn't that so fucking cool? It means the world. I mean, it's the same. Like, I love my listeners, like, I adore them. I love it. And this, this someone broke me down about like the secret history of 4chan, which is just the idea of that. Well, at the time, Christopher Paul was moving away from 4chan already. He already had other ideas. He was already on the way out.

He had already kind of segueed. He'd been trying to create a sort of area for bad actors on 4chan for a while, it never took. And when Epstein and Steve Vannon got involved with him, he was already kind of out the door. So Epstein probably had nothing, Epstein had nothing to do with 4chan. But then it was interesting how that took off because of the Steve Vannon, Epstein connections to him. But it really was just to me what I thought was interesting is more so after the fact about how they were making fun of the

Q and on 4chan, pizza gate stuff by using the pizza gate stuff themselves. Yeah. So I'm like a game on a game on a game on a game and it's all just it just makes people go crazy. You know what's really interesting though? None of this genre of AI like Epstein was kind of into AI. It seems but he was into it in the same way every business it is. So he's like, what if it could do all that this stuff that I've imagined? But yeah, he knows this era is part of like he maybe he was like a

load bearing pedophile like because I think they missed the ketamine. I think it was no ketamine. And I do think it was a different thing because at the time what Epstein really was more focused on was his appearance on the internet. He was focused on the information about him on the internet and

“that's why he got into all of the informational technology and all that shit because he was trying to figure”

out how can I control how people hear about me and talk about me. And that's really what that's what that was about. And then he was because he remember he was into fucking freezing his common making a world of supermodel sex slaves that he would make endless children with. And that's his big idea is that he was trying to fucking live forever and just who got other ideas. So he wasn't here in this one. He was there in the other way. No. No. He's looking great now though.

Well, I mean, I don't know if I agree the Jeffrey Epstein looks great.

I don't know if I just saw him. Oh yeah, I always mean him. I whenever I go to Tel Aviv, I see him.

That's my whole thing. I go check him with Jeff. We go down there. It's amazing. I love it. We have five hang out with him, David Bowie, Michael Jackson. Oh, good. Well, every time I've been ladden. Fine, we're here. They're all there. All right. All right, Henry. We're going to wrap it there. Henry, we're going to be able to find you. Go and check it out and last podcast and the left and all of the worships or videos are on Netflix now. And you can also see also on YouTube. And we've

the fray over here. And we do blood bath vampire the masquerade to LPN RPG. That's over on our

“YouTube channel, LPN TV. And it is honestly, I think it's really good. And it is it is a dark and evil”

version of an LPN RPG playthrough. Now, yeah, we'll get some links at that in the notes. Uh, you can also now buy a we've just launched a better offline fuck data centers. Uh, merch, gravaltisha, bini stickers, tank tops, baby onesies, put them everywhere. You're going to love them. I'm Ed Zaytron, subscribe to the newsletter. You'll have them on log this week. Sorry for

this, get last week. Cheers, everyone. I love you all.

Thank you for listening to Battle Ruffline. The editor and composer of the Battle Ruffline theme song is "Matter South Skate". You can check out more of his music and audio projects at MatterSouthSki.com/MATT-OS-O-W-S-K-I.com. You can email me a easy at Battle Ruffline.com or visit Battle Ruffline.com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat.wizyoured.at to visit the discord and go to our slash Battle Ruffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening.

Better offline is a production of cool zone media. For more from cool zone media, visit our website

coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Clayton Neckard and 22. I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

“But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all”

I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to the love trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Next Monday, our 2026 iHeartPodcast Awards are happening live in South by Southwest. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is creativity, knowledge, and passion. We'll all be on full display. Thank you so much iHeartRadio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern 5 p.m. Pacific Free.

It feeps.com or the Veeps app. Her podcast, thanks dad. It's full of funny heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships

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ego. Adam and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today. I'm Amanda Knox. And in the new podcast, doubt the case of Lucy Letbe. We unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? It has been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture of the case college. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my god, I think she might be innocent.

Listen to doubt the case of Lucy Letbe on the iHeartRadio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. This isn't iHeartPodcast. Guaranteed human.