3 | All Muddled Up

Our chefe is dead. We will be the one who will burn this ship. These ships are no ordinary ships. They are addictive. They are for spawning. And no one freaks the Tardort. In the hope of Rhoen, Hugh Jackman and Emma Thompson.

It's about 30 million dollars. We have our motive.

With the steam of Anke Enkel and Bastia Pastefgarten, Glent Kill, a chess crime. A person might know what it's key to. Please note, this podcast contains references to physical and sexual assault and graphic depictions of violence. Listen to discretion is advised. So, do you know what time Ronica called you that night to let you know about Faith's

“death? Do you remember what time Ronica called you that night?”

I don't remember specifically. And I have looked in my call logs. I had contacted my provider to try to get the call logs, so I can nail down the time. And it doesn't go back more than 90 days. They told me I got a fire and IT person to try to get into it. And I don't even know what that means. Right, like the log file. Still don't know what that means. You know, so I don't have an exact time.

I can tell you, I had just gotten home 30, 40 minutes before the call. I met with Faith as similar for clock. We parted ways about 430. I drove into Shawnee to see Caitlyn. Caitlyn wasn't there. I went over to visit with my mother who lived in Shawnee as well, visited with her for a couple of hours. And then I drove all the way back to Oklahoma City to my apartment where I was living.

And like I said, I hadn't been home.

“It was after eight o'clock. I remember that, but it wasn't very long after eight o'clock.”

I can tell you that when I got the call, I wasn't informed that police were on the scene. And I spoke to an officer, someone who identified himself as an officer. That's the most I can tell you. Do you still by any chance have your the handset that you had back then? I've been one of them. I've got a few of them.

One of them I've had for the last like at least four years. I just replaced it. But I don't know if it was the one I had at the time or not. Okay. Because what we can try and do, we can try and get into the log files on that. And then we should be able to get your call records from your log files for that time.

The key thing is, you know, if that call is before 834pm, there's some bigger questions there to be asked.

“Yeah. And then who were the people I was talking to?”

After Veronica? Who were they? If they weren't who they said they were. [Music] As soon as I finish speaking with Amanda, a jump on a call with Rosemary.

Things just aren't adding up in my mind, and I need to see if she's seeing it too. I take her through everything I'm thinking, and I'm happy when she confirms, I'm not going crazy. If Caitlin and Casey got to the scene at around 9pm, even 915pm, and it was a 40-minute drive, then the timeline just doesn't work. Right. So it doesn't add up.

Right. Like if that's the case. Absolutely doesn't make sense. I don't think it's possible that Veronica could have gotten there before 940 or 941. Right. That makes sense. There's no way she could possibly know. She said until that point.

Right. The second normal one call isn't until 837pm, and then at the end of that call,

he comes down the driveway, Ryan's there with the cowboy, who then goes to Smith's house, and that trigger's run a good leaving to go down to the scene. So you'd have the neighbor make that call. He's got to come down, see Ryan talking to the cowboy. The cowboy's got to jump in his truck, drive up to Smith's, tell them that a doveman is on the side of the road. Rockers got to grab her keys, get her to the truck, drive down to where Ryan and Faith are.

because they don't know each other. Call Amanda, try to get Caitlin, don't get her, get Casey in the line, ask him to give the phone to Caitlin, explain it in a way that Caitlin understands what's going on. Like, there is so much to happen in that space, and that's got to be what, like, 10-15 minutes at least. Easy, easy, easy.

And in the neighbor's second phone call, you know, the duration of that phone call is four minutes and 11 seconds.

So, just call and that 841-29. Very end of that call. If you turn it up, if you play it loud enough, you'll hear it. You can hear Ryan yelling, "Mom, my faith is dead." Write at the end of the call, write before it disconnects. [clock ticking]

“Seven o'clock, I mean 911, what's that, just a minute?”

[clock ticking] Can you, can I give your names there? My name's Ryan, I'm a boyfriend. [clock ticking]

Okay, okay. All right. Thank you very much.

You're welcome. Anything changes? Just go to call back, okay? Cool. All right. Thank you, sir. [clock ticking] Okay, bye bye.

[clock ticking] [clock ticking] [clock ticking] [clock ticking] Okay, bye bye.

[clock ticking] So, Veronica probably left the house at 840. It can't be that long. It's half a mile. So, then, if Caitlin and Casey are correct about the time they got there, then, then it doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit.

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. [clock ticking] On the back of it all, Amanda and I pack her cell phone up, and send it off to an analyst friend of mine to have the log files extracted. It's a few weeks into the investigation, and Rosemary and I are on a phone call,

going through everything we can get our hands on timeline wise. Anything and everything connected to the night of March 28th.

“So, I plugged in like everything that we had, you know, in terms of data points, right?”

I like anything that we could verify. So, obviously, the first point is just to like plot in the 911 calls, right? Because if it's the easiest thing to say, okay, we know these calls haven't. So, from what I can see, the first call. Well, the very first call is the Bobby call, right, which we've got at 829.

Then we've got the first 911 call from the neighbor at 834. And then the second call at 837. And then from that same report, we can see that the first responders arrived on site at 843pm. Right. That's it. Right. It's good. Okay. And then the next piece is the CCTV footage.

So, some of the CCTV footage always be I released to the public and asked for feedback on, right?

And so, in particular, they've got two or three clips of this light colored pickup truck with a dark trailer attached to it. Going past CCTV in the area. The interesting thing is that it is all muddled up. It is all over the place, like the times that don't make sense at all. In the days after Faith's death, the OSBI sought out CCTV footage from local stores and businesses.

In the hope of finding more information on the truck that was said to have hit faith.

“In their search, they found four key clips, all reporting to show the same light colored truck with a dark trailer.”

The first at 812pm shows the truck traveling southbound on Highway 56, asked the best Western hotel. The second clip recorded approximately 25 seconds later. It shows the truck driving past a dollar general store and also heading southbound on Highway 56. The problem with that is that the dollar general is north of the best Western, not south. And the interesting thing is apparently these times were verified as well, so it has been correct.

So I don't know how, but we have this truck like teleporting back north to go past the dollar general 25 seconds after it goes past the best Western. The next time the truck is seen, is four minutes later. At 816pm, at the Seminole Nation Casino guest station. And this is the interesting thing too, right, because the Seminole Nation Casinole guest station is north of the best Western. The truck has seen one final time at 827pm, driving south on Highway 6 past a lumber yard.

This is at 827, which is 8 minutes later, driving past a lumber yard that is not only north of the best Western.

And you know what the interesting thing is, you know, this is from what I understand all of the footage that was found.

So we don't have any footage of this truck going north and it's not like it's you turning and going back up north because we'd have that footage right. All we have is this truck going south at all these different time stamps, none of which are in order of the location of the places where the footage was recorded. Rosemary goes on to ask, based on all of these time stamps, assuming at least one of them is correct.

“What time the truck in the footage would have arrived at the exact spot where faith's body was found?”

So if it's based on the truck that goes past the best Western at 812 and 15 seconds, then at 65 miles per hour, which is the speed limit on that highway,

it's getting to that point and about 814 and 15 seconds. If it's based on the guest station, then you know, you're looking at like 821. If it's based on the lumberyard, then I mean, it's well out. It's like, you know, it's giving there like 832, which doesn't, doesn't fit that's passed. That's beyond the Bobby Call timestamp. So footage from the lumberyard is completely unreliable, right? Like that is well out of time.

“And the big problem is that, you know, because these times are so out of whack and because the locations are so out of whack, none of it is reliable.”

I mean, we can clearly cut out the lumberyard footage, but, but it even still puts into question everything else because it's all out of order. So all of it becomes unreliable. It all happened around 8 o'clock, which was a verbal argument between Ryan and Faith. Drawing beer, then they exit the house, Veronica follows her outside, grab to from behind, they end up in the shuffle. Evidently, he was very short-lived, according to that sentence. Maybe possibly 30 seconds.

“Veronica had been to take a shower or get cleaned up and face and Ryan's been on the tailgate.”

Faith exits, Ryan is sitting up the tailgate with state around 8 o'clock. 8 o'clock 2, Ryan goes into the house to check upon his mom and get a drink of water. 8 o'clock 3, Faith is spotted by some witnesses, walking southbound on the west side of the road. At 8 o'clock, Ryan goes back outside, and he sees Faith walking away, heading south on 56. He goes to speak with Murph on a law and Murph's daughter apologizing, evidently, for the breakfast and all the noise their kids had to witness. Then, according to Murph's, and on the law and his daughter, he sat on the tailgate for approximately 10 to 15 minutes.

Then we've got him hearing what he calls a fee vote for a truck or something going over a fee vote. He's assuming it's the truck trailer that he claims to be dried by. He starts to feel a little bit uneasy about that goes in the house to ask Murph for a flashlight and tell his mom that he has a bad feeling that he's going to go look for her. So, Ryan starts walking southbound and serves an interesting detail that he's walking east.

He's not on the side that he saw her walking on, so he goes to the opposite side of the highway and granted Oklahoma does say, first day, the reason is walk against traffic.

The highway lane is about 12 feet, so we're talking about 28 to 32 feet wide is about, you know, an average measurement of a 2-lane highway. So, he's searching with a flashlight from the east side to the west side, so it's going to be slow going. I can't back it up anymore than having Ryan leading the house at about 8/8 feet. Anyway, he's walking at 8/18 and at 8/29, that's when the first 911 calls comes in. Now he has to cross the highway, not only walks at 0.6 miles, but cross the highway in 11 minutes to get there at 8/29.

When he, as he got closer, he realized it was safe, that's when he ran to her and started yelling and trying to wave down in the car.

“And then, we've got the neighbor coming out to make his phone call. And, you know, at 8/32, then he makes a call again at 8/37.”

Letting, you know, the police know that state has deceased. The neighbor arrived at the scene. He hadn't made the 911 call yet, but saw Ryan with the cowboy. He was asking the cowboy to go get his mother, Ronika. So, the cowboy leaves, right? I imagine around E36 or 37. And in between that time, another witness arrived, but around 8/39.

So, the cowboy has left at 8/38. The new witness arrived at 8/39. She recalled only seeing a man on the phone seeing the neighbor.

“And a man on his niece, Ryan, next to Facebook.”

Facebook has a blanket on her now that the neighbor had brought out. So, Ronika, departs the house around 8/40.

I mean, this is a really great. I mean, thank goodness we've got this second witness.

So, she said about two minutes after her arrival, Ryan pulled her, that's my mom. I can get out of the driveway, down there, she's coming up here, which is at 8/40. And at this point, the neighbor's still on the 911 call. His call duration is four minutes in 11 seconds. He starts call 8/37 call ends at 8/41. 29 and 8/43. First responders arrived. I ask Rosemary if there are any third patty witnesses she's come across, that can be relied upon to help anchor the timeline down.

And, aside from the cowboy and the other woman who stopped to see if Ryan and the neighbor needed any assistance, she tells me there were two more. Sometime between 8 and 8/30 PM that night, a man driving northbound on Highway 56, says he passed what he thinks may have been a body on the side of the highway. And a little further up the road, a man sitting on the tailgate of a truck swinging his legs.

He called in later probably my assumption is he probably saw news report and knew it was on the road at the time. And he saw someone laying on the side of the road, but you know what it's like, it's dark. And you're going to pass it and you're going to have no, that's not possible. But he calls later, and he says that he thinks he saw someone on the side of the road, and then driving further north saw person sitting on the tailgate swinging their leg, which is pretty crazy to me.

Because I don't think the news or the police put out there that Ryan was sitting on the tailgate swinging leg. One thing that he says that actually sits somebody's narrative. Somebody else's narrative, that is completely unrelated to the family or Ryan. But I mean, that again, models their timeline or the timeline, because he thinks was already down. It's man also claims that he did not see any other vehicles on the road at the same time as he was there.

And at 803 PM, there was a couple driving southbound on Highway 56, who spotted a girl walking down the highway just near Smurf's house. They maneuvered around her and continued driving.

“The way I see this kind of like these two bookends of this, right?”

Like, you've got the couple that drives past and sees, you know, not, I mean, we can't, we can't be 100% certain that it's faith, but it sounds like it makes sense because they see a girl on the road walking down the highway at around 803 802 803 outside the front of Smurf's house. I think that's a pretty logical conclusion to come to the fact that it is faith.

And then you've got the first responders arriving at 843 PM.

So in my view, that kind of bookends that, you know, you're talking about a window of at most 40 minutes where all of this has happened. So I think, you know, when it comes down to, when we're looking at all of this, like, the seconds count, you know, you 40 minutes for everything to happen is, you know, it's all compacted into this tiny little space.

That matches up with what Ryan said he was doing. So that kind of verifies that part of it, you know, theoretically, if his statement is accurate, which it kind of sounds like it would be because it fits everything else. He drives past faith, she is there, and then he drives past Ryan sitting on the tailgate. So like those kind of pieces we can say, probably somewhat reliable. Then you've got the cowboy who stops and then he goes and gets smurf or tell smurf and run a car and run a car, you know, drives down.

Then you've got this couple that drive by and then you've got this other woman who stops after the cowboy leaves from what you've seen or what you've heard.

“Do you have them see of what a light colored truck with a trailer or, you know, like any other vehicle?”

Nobody, nobody saw anything. Ryan is the only person to a point of seeing a truck and trailer, but otherwise no other witnesses. So that, like then that, what that tells us right is that either there's one or two things going on here, either that truck goes by right at the right time and turns off, you know, just past the neighbor's house, which means if that's the case, then whoever owns this truck probably lives in that area because, you know, you're taking main highways, like this is this is a rural area, you're taking main highways to wherever you're getting to.

So if they're turning off, then they must be local or there wasn't a white truck that went down that way.

Let's try and play devil's advocate for a second and flip this around a little bit and so like if.

“Looking at specifically Ryan and and Ronika and Smurfs statement and what we have in terms of those data points of the 911 calls, you know, I mean,”

I like hesitate to call the CCTV footage data points at the moment because they're all over the place, but, you know, let's, let's anchor it around the guest western and the. All of that taken into account and the fact that, you know, there is, what do we say about a 6th of a mile between. Smurfs house and where faith is found. Yeah. If we look at it from Ryan and Ronika's perspective, is it possible that forgetting that no one else saw the truck and forgetting that the footage is all over the place and forgetting what we know in terms of.

“The fact that there is the scene just doesn't make sense and that there is no broken glass is no, you know, skid marks is no nothing to indicate an actual hidden run.”

Putting all that aside for a second.

Does it fit into the timeline that it's, it's possible that they're telling the truth. Looking at faiths, height and weight to calculate like a gate for her and then looking at it in terms of her leaving, if let's say that the couple that say that they saw her are the friend of Smurfs three minutes past eight. It appears that she could make that walk somewhere between about 12 and 18 minutes, which is, you know, it's quite a big window, but let's put that in the middle of that and let's say 15 minutes right.

That then means that she's getting there at like eight, 18. The truck passing the dollar general and the best Western, that's getting at the same spot if it's going the speed limit at around eight, 14. If it's going slower, let's say it's going more around the 25 miles an hour mark, it's getting to that spot at around eight, 17. So looking at that piece alone, from my view, it is actually possible, right, if that footage is reliable and let's say that that, you know, it is passing the dollar general around that eight, 12 mark, then it is getting to that spot around the same time.

The speed dependent that faith is getting there, but I mean, you know, the odds of driving down 65 mile an hour highway at 25 miles an hour, the whole way. I can't see it, but maybe if the truck is doing the speed limit, the odds of her getting there at the same time as the truck does is slim. He's sitting on the tailgate of his mom's truck, he sees the light truck with the dark trailer go by and then he hears what sounds like a speed bump.

He then gets up and leaves. So this is at eight, 17. The first call then is Bobby's call at eight, 29.

So now we're saying that Ryan makes his trip out and he's there also within 12 minutes. And so if she can get there between 12 and 18, then logically speaking, it is possible that he could have got there before that first call, right.

What I'm getting at is like, if you look at this and say, okay, it is just not at all possible, then that, you know, this kind of road breaks down completely. Once you start layering and all the other things, you lean toward the fact that none of this makes sense.

But if you look at it in isolation in terms of the timeline and just say, is it possible for the truck and basically to be at the same spot at the same time.

And then for Ryan to find her before that first 911 call from Bobby, it's possible, but it's not logical. It's not logical, but it is physically possible. Okay. It's physically possible.

“So the key thing then what we need to figure out and I think what we need to do then, we need to go and test exactly how long it would take to work.”

From Smith's house to the point that she was found, you know, replicate the conditions and make that walk. The other piece that Rosemary and I keep coming back to is the sound that Ryan says he heard, like something hitting a speed bump. Then whether it was even possible for someone to hear that so far away. We ask Amanda about it. You know, it sounded like a speed bump, but the 15-year-old bullet that house whose bedroom was on that end and her bedroom windows were open.

She didn't hear it at all. No one. The only thing she heard, she didn't hear anything until she heard Ryan's breathing. Which is not going to be as loud as a speed bump. Absolutely not.

Her dad didn't hear anything. And Casey, Katelyn's husband. He knows that stretcher road better than most. He drove a UPS route through that area for three years and he took that route specifically. He knows the distance he knows the terrain and he tells us flat out. There's just no way Ryan could have heard that from that tailgate. I delivered in that area for three or four years.

“It's like 0.6 miles from where he was setting that on that tailgate, right?”

There's no way in hell. He heard anything down there to prompt him to get off that tailgate, like he's saying. Looking at it all scientifically in terms of distance and speed. There's no question that the hit and run theory is possible. The track and faith can definitely have reached the same spot at the same time. And Ryan can also have reached that same spot prior to the Bobby call.

But as Rosemary and I quickly discover, as soon as you start layering all of the other information across it, it becomes almost a statistic and possibility. We're nothing makes sense. The evidence of something else happening piles up incredibly quickly. The question then becomes, what did law enforcement do on the night of in the days after faith's death?

And what drew them to the conclusion that it was a hit and run in the first place?

When it's highway, the cold gun there, they said this is not real. Told us, though, we woke up or the Seminole County Sheriff Shannon Smith, that he needed to call OSBI because this was hinting and not fearful related.

“Right, and that's how the OSBI got me blocked.”

The highway patrol called it in because it was hinty and that's their word. The sheriff decided it didn't line up as a hit and run. And on the OHP's own incident report, it clearly states that it's possible that this will actually be an intentional homicide. But when the OSBI arrived and took the lead, it seems the hinty feeling didn't go away, it just kind of got ignored. And nobody ever went back to Smurf's house to look for blood, the chick for damage to investigate the scene of the fight that everyone admitted happened.

And every law enforcement official I talked to since then. I have asked them, can you think of one event or piece of information or anything that would tell you that same incident that you don't need to go down to that side? Right. And every last one of them is told me they can't think of a one. And what the can you dance beat and trooper baker both told me is that OSBI told them that night that they were they learned of a physical altercation that happened at the house. Yeah.

And both the lieutenant and the trooper said they asked them, do you want us to go down to the house and start collecting evidence and documenting? And they said no. OSBI said no. Yes. The OSBI agent came told them that did not give a reason. Just said no.

On the first of April, agent keen visited Amanda Caitlin and Casey at her apartment in Oklahoma City.

And he straight told myself, Caitlin and Casey, in the same way. I have the same time that right Monica and Smurke have been ruled out. This was a hit and run homicide. But his statement showing the correspondence he had with the pathologist and Oklahoma chief medical examers office showed he didn't have his first encounter with them until April the 29th. Their first interviews were back to back in the same vehicle at the same location at the same time.

So, how did they rule them out?

[Music]

“Faith's case is still open and her killer or killers have not yet been brought to justice.”

If you know anything about faith, her death or those who may be responsible, we'd like to hear from you.

Please visit EchoSpace.media/tips and either leave a voicemail or send us a message.

“You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at BluntForce Drama Podcast.”

If you're enjoying this podcast, please consider our subscriber optional Apple podcasts, or [email protected]/ EchoSpacePodcasts,

where you can access to early episode drops and free episodes and bonus content across all of the EchoSpace shows.

“If you'd like to keep up-to-date with progress on faith's case, please visit and follow the justice for faith-easy Facebook page.”

You'll find a link to it in the episode notes. BluntForce Drama is a production of EchoSpace, written and hosted by Troy Taylor. Executive producers of Troy Taylor marked a ruley in French shirts. A main theme song is "Lose my Mind" by Mayor David Off, and the show also contains audio content from movie gratis.