6 | Dobermann

Please note, this podcast contains references to physical and sexual assault and graphic

to fiction's violence. Listen to discretion, is advised.

“The views and opinions expressed throughout this podcast are solely those of the individuals”

expressing them, and do not necessarily align with the opinions or beliefs of the host or producers. Everyone knows of Ryan, and I don't know why. I mean, there's nothing he's not a good person. I have a protective order on him, but I don't believe I'm ever safe.

I mean, he has a really bad temper. I fully believe he's responsible.

I think he killed face 100%.

So I lost my mom last 15, she was murdered, and they said it was, you know, where she was side, both of them were dead. I mean, my mom, my shot, she was in her bathroom when she was killed, and there was one night he was trying to choke me. He was trying to choke me before her, and he stopped, and then he was like, "Get the fuck away from me.

Get the fuck away from me." And so I went in the bathroom, while I had a broken piece of glass on my hand, and he came in there, and he was like, "You just want to die in the bathroom like your mom. Don't you?"

Well, he started, "Okay, I'm being airing," and put his hands around my throat. And I stabbed him. And the ribs were that broken piece of glass. You stabbed him. No, yeah.

He wasn't, oh, maybe a week after I had spoken with him. Um, my phone ran one night, and I'm like, "I entered into the unknown number, you know,

“and there was this manhole bone, and he goes, "I want to inform you that you need to keep your”

mouth shut, but ask me questions, and back off me, or you're not going to like consequences." I haven't moved in 20 minutes. The man design is on the phone, telling me about the threat that was made against her, in the wake of faith's death, and her family's push for answers.

It's the first time anyone close to this case has told me that we want to stop asking

questions. And the craziest part about it is, the threat appears to be coming from a very unexpected direction. Hey, had you spoken to anyone else about the case? No.

No. I talked with Amanda and Kate and my daughter, both my sons, and they don't talk to anybody because they're not down around here talking about it. So we don't wrap anything to anybody or ask any questions around anyone because we know that there are different ones who I keep it down low, and we want to draw out somebody else's

when they've got something going on. So we just kind of get them on our circles. I asked Sioux if she received any other threatening calls regarding faith's case. It's the one, and I was like, I'm the kind of person on Sunday, okay, I'm the kind of person. It's like, okay, go ahead and tell me, try to bully me, and I'm going to come back

at you, and I'm going to be bullied, okay? Tell me to back up, tell me, sit down, tell me shut up and go, I'm going to be in your face.

“And when we, well, you know, this is important.”

This is important. I mean, somebody knows we're going to my family members, and we're not going there. I just, no, I want to ask whatever questions I need to ask and I try not to make a big boo out of it all. I go on to ask if she knows of any other people who received calls around the same time

she did. And she tells me there was one other guy she knows of. She's not close to him. She doesn't want a name and by name and they don't talk that often, but they've compared notes in the past.

Yeah, he's had that they, one of the, no, I don't know whether he, yeah.

He said, don't ask questions, this is not your investigation.

“But he was approached by someone who said that, not a call.”

No, not a call. He was approached. And I don't know who it was, he had no clue. He was just back off, he didn't tell me who it was. The scary part about all of it is that it's, you know, it doesn't sound like anyone saying,

they're not saying, you know, worry about whoever may be involved in this, they're saying, you know, worry about the people that are supposed to protect you.

That's basically it, but I'm not sure, right there.

Don't be as with it, because you're, you know, you're going to call the rockist sort. I ask if there's any chance she might still be able to get in touch with the guy. And if she could possibly find out more about who it was that approached him in terms of right. Yeah, I would take you a few days, but sometimes I get, you know, hold heavy, but I can,

I can talk with him and ask him, they can go and get me more details. Yeah, if you can, that'd be great. Just just to get an idea of like, it seems we're both on the same page. If someone's starting to buy it back, well, it probably means we're poking the right bear. When I grew up, I'd be like, yeah, fair man.

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The second I hang up from Amanda and Art Sue, my phone does this.

It's a voicemail message from Rosemary. And I'm surprised about what it is she's got to share. First unheard message sent yesterday at 7-15 p.m. Hey Troy, so I've been doing a little bit of digging and I came across this case from 2020. So not too long ago. It's McGurt versus Oklahoma.

It's a whole new, like, perspective on the way investigations go. Where a Native American man got his life sentence overturned because he was investigated by the state of Oklahoma and not hit the tribal police or federal court. And of the state has no jurisdiction over tribal land. You know, Kate said when she arrived, the light horse police were there.

“Why would they be there? Is it something that they just do?”

They really think it's something we need to look into because who has the authority to investigate? So it got me thinking, I'm wondering, you know, seeing that face was found dead on tribal land. Do we know if Ryan or Ronika are Native American? If they are, I mean, it should be possibly a federal investigation or the OSPI or OHP. There's so many different agencies involved who need the decision not to investigate, Ryan and Ronika.

And maybe this shouldn't even have been their case at all. Maybe it should be federal. I think this kind of really changed the scope of this investigation. A few days after speaking with Amanda and her aunt, Amanda calls me with an update.

I'm thinking, Troy, I'm thinking. So my aunt, Sue, Sue is not her first name. Not many people

know her first name. Her first name is not common, but if somebody was just looking up her name to get her phone number, they would, when they called, they would call her by her first name. They did not. In that, in that call, she said, when she answered the call, they said, it's this Sue. Sue was what everybody calls her, but in an official capacity, like if you didn't know her or didn't know where to look, you would call her by her first name. And her phone number

is not common knowledge. It's a pay as you go type of people don't just know where she lives, that kind of thing. She's very much, I mean, she's 75 years old, she's very much under the radar.

“So we were thinking, okay, so where else would they have gotten her name and her phone number?”

So if it was just law enforcement, calling to just kind of give her an anonymous caution, you know, could it have been in this manner, but she said they used her middle name. So what's

given first name. So it was somebody who knew who all the players are, who's asking the questions.

“And then, you know, small community, everybody knows everybody and everybody knows everybody's business.”

Yeah. And then, how did they get her phone number? People don't just give out her phone number. She only knows fam. So where did they get the phone number? 100%. No one like, no one involved is going to be able to find her phone number, or even if you know, even if put it right out there and say that it was a hidden run, this random driver, he's not going to have a phone number. He's not going to be calling her saying stuff asking questions, right? So you rule out that high criminal

element of it and you say, well, it comes down to that same thing, which is that it has to be someone in law enforcement or link to the case in that way. And then they're not operating in any kind of official capacity. So exactly. It can only, you know, that lead you in that one spot of like this can only be for one reason. And it's not to say, hey, we're trying to investigate this, just back off and let us do it. It's to say, stop sticking your nose and places that it shouldn't

be. I ask Amanda how Aunt Sue went and getting attached with a guy she believed had also been threatened. And it seems things had taken an interesting turn. The vibe that my Aunt got as well as I did from her telling me about it was whatever happened, whatever got him spooked had to be from a source outside of the criminal element. It would have to come from someone who he knows as the ability to carry out whatever threats they made them and to cover it up.

She's like, okay, so I'm just going to back off of him because I don't know. You know, he won't even answer my calls now for me to try to get any kind of context or find out what's going on. But she said he did such a flip on her and her last actual conversation with him. The last time he actually answered the phone, he did such a flip. And the way what he was saying was just like something, it told her something had happened. It's weird. She's like, that is not the way he acts.

But she said he just very much was like, leave. I don't know. Stop asking me. And I don't want nothing else to do with it. And then he have not answered her calls since then. When was that last time she spoke to him? She said it was about a month ago. She said she's called in three times since then and he

has not answered. He has not returned her calls and he always would before. Wow. I'm not any

“okay. Something's up. Something big. I think something big. Something right. And you know,”

I don't want anybody else getting hurt. But people are going to think, can you to get hurt as long as they're able to silence people? They're only able to to create fear if there ain't no light shed on it. "Cuz scene." Because his scene is now ready for the first shooting.

The new scene is called "Clinical White." The scene is based on the two main scenes with the "Shoot for the death" of the company. The form with modern white in complex lists for two more decades of development for eight weeks of effective performance. And it is now called 24 hours long. Now let's try.

The scene is called "Clinical White." Now it is a drugstore. After my call with Amanda, I'm just about to shut my laptop for the night when a new message pops up. It's from a girl named Stevie. She tells me she knows rhyme that they've recently separated, but that they'd been in a relationship for four years right on the back of Faith's death.

She wants to know if I've got some time to talk, and of course, the answer is yes.

I reach over and switch back on the coffee pot. It looks like tonight, I'm gonna need it. I pick up the phone, dial her number, and within seconds we're diving right in. I remember when I first met Ryan, something just told me, you know, stay away from this man. He's not good news. He went to rehab or whatever.

I rode him on Facebook and congratulating, "Hey, you know, good job going and getting sober and, you know, all of that." While he wrote me back, and, well, I guess he wasn't in California anymore. He wasn't in rehab, he had come home. And somehow, we just ended up--he pretty much moved himself in. You know, I was working, and I can care my kids, and it has pretty much took over.

“I didn't know Faith, I didn't know the situation I never heard, the situation, you know?”

I remember I was working at the Ponytop, and I had seen the first podcast on Faith, and then that's when I seen Ryan's name, and I was like, "Hold on."

You know, as soon as I heard the podcast, of course, I wanted to just up and leave. A month later, my or so, and I did a bringing it up to him. And he just kind of like, "Wig down." Was Ella mad, because I listened to the podcast, and Naughty, Naughty, Naughty, Naughty, Naughty. But he used to like squeeze me, okay?

And Faith was a little bitty, right? I'm five-ten. You know, I'm not, I'm not a little bitty. I'm skinny, but he used to like wrap his arms around me, around my ribs, and squeeze me. And he would make comments about like how he could take me out, doing that. I mean, it was just completely random.

So, I mean, that always like stuck in my head, like, "Well, is that how I did it?"

He never knocked me out, he never punched me. I did have to say that, you know, he never punched me. He didn't try to joke me out a few times, and he had me on the floor when I was pregnant. I mean, he spent my face when I was pregnant. And now, I've never been to jail.

I'm not a violent person. Ryan's the only person I've ever punched in the face. And it was while I was pregnant. He spent my face three times, and that third time I just boom boom punch him, and then somehow I got off the floor.

So, if you guys got into a situation where you were having an argument, would there be any situation where he would walk away? No, never. And I would, you know, of course, like, I would try to go to the other room, or, you know, the time that...

“Okay, Ryan, that's how I think that's what I finally learned.”

It's just like, okay, Ryan, okay, Ryan, whatever you say, Ryan. Okay, Ryan. Now, I've met Ryan like her when I was pregnant and whatever. My not Ryan's kid is almost three. The day after the baby was born, Ryan ended up going to jail.

So I was in the hospital by myself, and I had a premature baby, you know, who's in the neck you. Well, that day, they released me. Veronica came and got me. Because I had no one else to come and get me.

I would call Veronica, and I would cry, and I would vent to Veronica, because Ryan would leave me. You know, I was pregnant and be gone forever in my core,

and when it comes home, and she would just always tell me like,

"Well, one day whenever you're sick of it, you know, you'll be sick of it or whatever." Like, you don't have to put up with that. Well, she would say, Ryan would always say, like, she doesn't come around because of faith,

because of what happened to faith. But he wouldn't say, you know. He said she wouldn't, she doesn't come around because of what happened to faith. Yeah, like, she's got guilt because of that. Did he ever tell you anything about that night?

What he says happened to what? They were doing that night or anything like that? He told me that they weren't too a bar outside of Ooga. He was called the star-guess, I think. And he tells me about what happened that day.

You know, it was faith. Faith was kind of. And one of her moods, I'll see if I'd say. I don't know. He would say, like, "Faith would try to argue with him

or start an argument so she could leave." And I don't, that's wrong, the case, because, you know, me going through everything I went through with this man. Like, he would say, "I was starting to start an argument so I could leave."

So I don't think that was the case. Both faith.

“I think that's just how he perceived it.”

But I used to say we're at the bar. And they went back to the house. And, like, faiths had just seen her mom and was upset about her brother. And he acts like he wasn't doing anything wrong.

But, you know, I know Ryan how he acts on other people. And I'm sure he was doing something disrespectful. And that she poor beer on him. And it pissed Ryan off. So that's when, you know, Ryan kind of got into it.

But he, I feel like it wasn't a big deal. Like, you know, but why would Ryan could take a shower afterwards if it wasn't a big deal? And then I, I assume a lot like, okay. So if faith took off, why were you not running behind her?

But y'all were in the soccer. It's scary and dark and white girls don't go to the soccer. If you're from around here, you know you do not go to the soccer night. And he, he would say, well, because I was caught. I mean, took my mom and between faith and I said, okay.

So how long did it take you before you went after her? Well, he tells me like 15, that's 30 minutes. 15 to 30 minutes, okay. Yeah. And to me, that's just not right.

“And you should have been right behind her.”

That sounds like something he would do. If she walked off after she'd had a fight with Veronica, would he just sit there and wait? Or would he go after her? No, he would not have been right behind her.

He was never right behind me.

Right. But I mean, like, if she'd walked away, would he just let her walk? Yep. 100%. Right.

100%. He's got that. I don't give a fuck attitude about everything. Hmm. But if they were an argument, you think you would have gone out after her.

If he and she were arguing. Hmm. Or he would let her walk away.

I don't know, I'm in it.

No, because even like, well, it would be arguing.

And I would walk, like, just take off and walk away. You wouldn't be behind me. Okay, he'd let you go. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. He'd never followed me. He'd never, like, never. And then so he, so he said that they, you know, he waited for about half an hour. And then what, what happened then?

And then he, God has got a flashlight and went looking for her. And then he, he sort of talked you through the detail. Are we just, he didn't really get in much. He doesn't, no, he doesn't go real deep in the detail. He's told me about, like, you know, he'll be finding her.

And then homeholer and, and then. Helms and, like, that's where the government venture came in. That was what they nicknamed faith.

“I think that's like her, that was like her.”

Ryan Veronica's nickname for faith.

Was dopamine? My dad, yeah. I did the wrong picture because she's little, but she was feisty. Wow. Okay.

So you saw that if he said to. The cowboy. Tell, tell, tell mom. Yeah. The dopamine's been hurt.

Yep. And then see in the podcast. There's a Bobby, right? Okay. Well, Ryan's dad's name is Bobby.

Yeah, it is. Yeah. It is. And Ryan's dad also has a truck, just like the one that's seen on the footage. And he also has a trailer.

Just like the one that's seen on the footage. Do you know what Bobby lives? Like an area? I sure do. You do.

I do.

“Is it local to where it's most places to wewaka?”

Yeah. Did he ever talk to you about who was there at the tailgate. They're not like the. Nope. From here on there was this them.

Okay. I've heard. So I've been like. You know, okay. I'm a very spiritual person.

And I feel like face came to me one day. And you know, like, I really feel like she's trying to help me. I think about the cry. Because you know. She deserves that.

She deserves for everybody to know what happened to her. And the I feel like it's came. I mean, like, she's telling me that she's going to try to be with me. And like, you know, because I've been asking all kinds of people. Like, I'm not a very.

I'm not out there. I stay home. But I do have people in town that come over and. And I mean, I bring her up. You know, and.

“So different people have told me different things.”

And I've been trying to put the pieces together myself. But I mean, one person told me that there was a party that light. And then another person told me that where we know face was found was not where face was heard that. And then another person has told me that Veronica went to Shawnee and picked them up that night. And Lion was hitting on her whole way back to Smurf's house.

And whenever they got there, not faith took off running. And to my knowledge, they were living with Veronica and they were working. And they didn't have cell phones. And all this. But this person who told Matt, he was hitting on her whole way home.

Told me that they had cell phones. And that they were living in Shawnee. Was Ryan running drugs? I don't know a Ryan. Ryan drugs.

Ryan never had money. I know Ryan knows a lot of people who do drugs. I've been told that couple of people that Ryan would have like. Different SIM cards and like use other people's phones with SIM cards. Is that right?

Do you know why? I have no. I don't know.

I can never figure it out.

But I would find so cards all the time. And like, it wasn't the beginning relationship. It was more towards like the end of our relationship. I mean, I saw him like a SIM card in my window seal. And some cards just hit in that random place holes.

I've found a sheriff badge. You've had a sheriff badge? Shawnee, put toolman badge, actually. In your house? Yes.

I have. So I've lived in the same house since I was 15. I'm a very observant person. You know, so I noticed little things that most people aren't going to notice. I have little poles in my wall.

There's one in my little holes. Like little holes. Like perfectly drilled, perfectly placed holes. Like just a set of appearing around your house? Yep.

There's one in my kids' room. There's one in my living room. There's one in my foyer. Oh, you think the house is bugged?

I know for sure.

I know for sure behind that hole.

There is a camera and it's a wired camera.

“But so you found a camera behind one of those holes?”

I haven't got a lot of it between the wall or nothing. But I know that's what it is. Because why is there a hole there? Well, I took a picture of that little bit of hole. It's like, you know, you can tell there's definitely a camera.

So when did you start noticing those? I probably started noticing those two months before. I got that I was done with them. And I mean, like, in my foyer, they were hidden. Like this hole that I'm staring at right now.

It was hidden behind little mirrors. Like, they're mirrors that you hung up? No, I didn't put them there. He did. Okay. So, so he put these mirrors on the wall. Little mirrors.

So that, yeah, I took them down. And that's where you found the holes behind these mirrors. Yep. So the house that you're living in now is that you was at your mom's house? No.

But I was killed out in Bethel. And I'll land off. I did want to live there. I feel like she's kind of still there. But she's not because she's with me.

“And I feel like that's why I've outlived her because she was 32.”

And I made it to 33. Just turned 33 in December. And I got rid of Ryan. And he was gone when I woke up. Oh, my god.

The relief off my shoulders. Because, I mean, just being around Ryan. My window is just so tense all the time. I mean, I felt it in my neck. And ever since he's been gone in the house of lighter,

your lighter, the kids are lighter. If you were to try and say what you think probably went down on that night. Do you want to, like, have you got any thoughts on that? Oh, I mean, I've tried not to think about it. But what's what makes it so difficult is because, like,

I know he sat here and cried to me about faith. You know, and I know that, like, I want to believe that he didn't do anything to her. But I also know that, look at his eyes when he tried to kill me. So. And I was wrong.

I kind of, I feel like it's just, that's her son.

You know, it's her first warm son.

So she's just going to have his back. Ultimately, she would have all of her kids back. She would die for all her kids. Yeah. When you, when you said about, when he tried to kill you,

is that that when you were in the bathroom? Yeah. Yeah. I saw it. I saw he blew it.

I saw him. Is that time? Hmm. Um. I'm just about to finish up on my call with Stevie.

When something pops into the back of my mind. After Rosemary's voice message the other day, she'd sent me a copy of the McGurt versus Oklahoma ruling. And I'd spent a couple hours breaking it down and getting a better understanding of what it all meant.

It seems that on the back of the McGurt case Rosemary had been referring to. The Supreme Court had ruled five four that a large portion of Eastern Oklahoma is still legally recognized as Native American reservation land.

And because it was never officially de-established by Congress.

For all legal purposes, it's still considered Indian country. Therefore, specifically relating to the McGurt case, because the suspect was Native American and the crime it occurred on Native American land. The investigation and prosecution of the crime was not considered Oklahoma state jurisdiction. And, as it was a major violent crime, it actually fell under federal jurisdiction.

And that went on to set the precedent that all serious crimes committed in Oklahoma on Native American land with the suspect was Native American would be considered federal jurisdiction under the major crimes act. I don't know exactly what it means for faith's case. But I have someone on the phone who just might be able to help give me at least a part of the answer to that. It's a long shot.

But the long shots are usually the ones worth taking.

“You must be getting pretty late for you, so I should let you go.”

But there was one more thing that I wanted to ask you about. Do you know whether Ryan or Ronika are Native American at all? Yes. They are? They are.

Okay. I know Ryan does not have his tribal card. I know Ronika does. Do you know she does have it? Yeah, I know.

I know she has her role number. I believe so. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Faith's case is still open and her killer or killers have not yet been brought to justice.

“If you know anything about faith or death or those who may be responsible, we'd like to hear from you.”

Please visit echospace.media/tips and either leave a voice man or send us a message.

You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at bluntforce trauma podcast.

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If you'd like to keep up to date with progress on faith's case, please visit and follow the Justice for Faith eLeaf Facebook page.

“You'll find a link to it in the episode notes.”

bluntforce trauma is a production of echo space written and hosted by Troy Taylor. Executive producers at Troy Taylor, Mark Terrulli and Fred Scherzer. Our main theme song is "Lose My Mind" by Maya Davidoth. And the show also contains audio content from movie gratis.