8 | They're Digging Up Bodies Right Now

depictions of violence.

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“The views and opinions expressed throughout this podcast are solely those of the individuals”

expressing them, and do not necessarily align with the opinions of beliefs of the host or producers. Hey, it's Troy here. I just wanted to let you know that we're currently working on a Q&A episode for Bloodforce Drama.

If you've got any questions you'd like to ask me, Rosemary, Amanda Katelyn or Casey, jump

on over to echospace.media/tips and send us a voice mail message or a text message. And now, today is episode.

“I have no idea, I could never figure out what that thought out because I think the guys”

just linked the list. I don't know where the list comes from, I don't know who's got it, how it was done, none of that. But I know the cops know about it, because I've talked to them about this one. I know that, you know, lawyers know about it, the judges know about it, for you know,

you got to head to the lab too, especially when I heard of a news that Facebook is not hit by a car, she means being that that's Jack, that something Jack does, and I say that because he kidnapped a girl, a couple of months ago, and we are so mad that he's dumped her in that form of shield, and that form of shelter that way. Hi, how are you, how are you, I'm good, I'm good, so on the back of all of this

conversation about whether Ryan and Ronic are Native American, I decided to jump on line, and I dug into Bronic's background, and from what I can see there, 100% Native American, Cherokee. It looks like her great grandfather, I think, was Cherokee so that would put her it like what?

“I think she'd be at an age, there is no minimum in Oklahoma, there is no minimum, right?”

Yeah, right, so she would still be under that mega vehicle home rolling then, she would still be considered Native American, okay, yeah, yeah, so there was that, and then did a little more digging, and I also found an obituary for her aunt, and that clearly lays out all of it, you know, that she was Native American, that she was Cherokee, so you know, the tie is definitely there, so you know, in line with all of this, Amanda has been doing some

amazing digging, and she sent me some images of these court cases in Seminole County that

are showing obie in property court, Bobby Ryan's dad, so it's tribal court, and there's one or two, maybe three instances where this is reflected, so, in tribal court, okay, so, in court, so is it on both sides, for Ryan, I mean, does Ryan have a father, who is Native American and a mother, I mean, that's a pretty amazing find, kind of helping put things together, put these pieces of puzzle together, to really get this jurisdiction right.

Yeah, well, I mean, that's the thing isn't it, if you look at it that way, you know, even if let's say Bobby isn't, but his court case is finding someone who is, you know, it's from enough different angles that, you know, one of them has to check out, right? Like one of them clearly indicates that there is that light lineage there and heritage there, so, you know, from, and maybe try to maybe this is why the light horse show up, because, you know, I mean percentage wise of

people who might be or might not be, I mean, they probably needed to be there and knew they needed

I'm not a homicide investigation, I mean, I'm not a homicide investigator, neither of you, and

neither is Amanda, and, you know, we're, we're able to find this information, you know, like, why can't anybody else, like, what, this, yeah, so, I mean that, that's just, I mean it, just continually, that's frustrating. So if I kind of imagine how Amanda and Caitlyn feel after all these years of just closed doors, but it is constant for them, it's constant, yeah, a door slamming in their face, it's everywhere they go, nobody wants to help.

Yeah, they're all passing the back or shutting the door. Well, on, on the back of all of this,

“in terms of the native American side of things, I think we have enough now to actually get”

a letter out and make a called the FBI. So I'm going to, I'm going to do that today, and then hopefully you can take it on and see it. Yeah, hopefully I'm praying and they, they should, if they follow the Maguro decision, this is, is right in the line with it. So, yeah, maybe we'll get some answers. One of the things that continues to surprise me is how willing people are to talk about what

they've heard surrounding faith's death and about what they believe is really going on in

we woke up. People will talk sometimes they'll talk a lot, but almost always there's a line

they don't want to cross. They don't want anyone to know they're the ones saying it. There's a fear beneath so many of these conversations. I can hear it in people's voices. I can feel it in what they say, and what they stop themselves from saying. And what strikes me the most is the fear seems to run deeper than the question of who may have been responsible for faith's death. It feels bigger than that.

Amanda Katelyn and Casey, of course, are different. But almost everyone else, I speak to, seems to be carrying the same quiet warning. I'll tell you what I know, but you can't let anyone else know it came from me. And what Amanda sends me two new clips, I begin to understand why. As you'll hear shortly, the voices of both callers have been distorted to protect their identities. Jack and Ryan were friends. Jack is known for beating women. He's known for kidnapping women.

I kind of think Jack was involved in it. I know Jack and Faith knew each other. I mean, this man beat me in everybody knew people. He's like the big devil. So John, you don't well be instant. You know what I'm saying? Jack's been connected to all that shit. And Jack and Ryan see each other a lot. There's several of them connected to all that. And they're selling him this

“woman and Johnny. That's why I say faith. He does. I had a list of what I don't know if you ever”

found the list of roles that they were going to kill, that they didn't want women to eat. Why? I started for a list. They saw some of the people they got. Some of the people would think you have to buy these right now. It was a list of women that they were supposed to take out. Faith was on the list. I was on the list. All kinds of subunit on the list. There was like 10 girls on it. The day I had a list of people that they were going to kill. I don't know why. I still don't

have never figured that one. And Jack and Ryan see each other a lot in the big house. It's in

Johnny, but it's they call it the big house. But it's just a little house. Even about the living county house with a digging of bodies up there, right? There's a house in Johnny they're doing that too as well. There's a house in Bethel if you're doing that too as well. All three houses they found out. It's there to 21 bottles in front. There's a lot of weird stuff. And a lot of shit that's happening there. It's like why are they getting lined with that? Why don't you know

but it's going on? Why the fuck is this not on the knees? There was fine girls kill. I said I want to understand what's on the story so we've all 20, like 10, 20, 20. There's so many girls between 18 and 20. There's a shit that our girls came up with so they'd be

“lined in ditches and I mean that's his ammo. That's what he does. And when I heard that she was”

not ran over by a car that she was beaten to death, that's Jack. The whole thing leaves me in a state. I'm not really sure how to describe. There's a tightness in my chest that I can't seem to shake. A killed list, kidnapping, bodies piling up. I felt out of my dip before this. Now it kind of

I click play on the second tape, nervous, uncomfortable and with absolutely no idea what to expect.

Now you sometimes hear you sit back, struggle come to you. All this I'll be truthful with you about everything. And the fairs there in similar accounting threaten me by the light and I

“headed back off. That's why I don't block them. I don't trust them. All in the dogs was my other.”

And then the head got a bug. He was going to tell on everybody else so they went up there and murdered him. They beat him. He beat him so badly. He had a brain and he was going to die. Detective called me to come up to the sheriff's office to talk to him and I went up there to talk to

you and then the sheriff drove up and he came up there and threatened me. He's going to put us in prison

for the rest of our lives and he's threatened me with bothering me. But that's the reason I don't trust him. Oh, my grandson's friend, she told me she's not even tell you something. She said, "I'm scared and I said, "Why are you scared?" She said, "I'm scared of that woman." And I said, "Gloat

“woman." And she said, "Do you know where I'm so late?" And I said, "To tell you the truth,”

I don't know who he's with now." And her names were genuine or said like that. Do you heard them talking about it? She told me that this is the boyfriend of no daughter and I was fussing,

and she was going to take out weapons. But the mama got a whole different and she's the one that

killed her. She beat her to death. And they put her on the highway. And she said, "Why should a car get her but she didn't have any more?" And I said, "No, she didn't get my car. She would have robbed and really I called the highway patrol. I called them but they haven't called me." He said, "He would have the highway patrol to call me but they didn't call me." And so I thought, "Maybe the guy who was investigating this was off duty." And I know if I go to jail,

then later, what's going to happen? And she swarmed strange. But in my Instagram, she did kind of do me talking about it. And she said, "It was face, boyfriends, mom that did that to her." And I said, "Who's his mother?" And she said, "She names are smart." And I said, "I didn't know smart had no writing." And she said, "Yeah, she's got three kids." I said, "Smart's dance." And she said, "Now they're arms." And she said, "Fight was out there

at his house." And she said, "Haren, we're working on him." And she said, "And mama went off on her and beat her to death." And I said, "Are you serious?" And she said, "Yes, it was smart. There." And she said, "Been out." Now, it was there. She said, "But I had to win out there." And I heard them talking about, "She's I'm scared to death at that one." The mom said, "Yes, she, I guess she didn't realize that the little girl was deceased,

and they put her on the house. And she said, "Something I said about a truck hit girl." The little girl told me that she didn't have the months on her. And that they had,

“the mom had been hearing the hair. I don't know if that's what her cause of death was.”

But that's what she had earned. And she said, "If a car would have hit her, wouldn't she have been bruised or anything?" And I said, "Well, it looks like a face. One should be broken and everything." And the whole thing reminds me of that old saying, "If one person calls you a horse, you could ignore them." And the three people call you a horse.

"Well, maybe you should buy yourself a saddle." A few days later, I get a message from Rosemary. She's teed up a meeting with one of the most well-known and well-regarded forensic pathologists in the industry. He's taking a look at faith's autopsy report for us in isolation of anything else, and he takes us through it,

Okay, so I've just got a call that Rosemary teed up. She's got an acquaintance who is a really well-known

“forensic pathologist. Top of his game has been involved in a whole lot of really high-profile cases,”

and she managed to get him to take a look at faith's autopsy for us. He doesn't want his name out there just yet until we have some kind of support from law enforcement or the medical examiner or the district attorney or someone or the FBI. Someone in that area that says, "Okay, we're going to investigate this deeper." And if that happens and we can get that happening, then he's happy to step forward and get involved. But right now he doesn't want his name out there, so it was going to

call him Tony. But he's happy for me to share with you exactly what he had to say, and I found it

really, really fascinating because obviously we had Anna look through it and give her opinion on it.

His opinion differs completely, and this is the complexity of it all. The one thing that they do both agree on is that there is no way in hell that faith was hit by a car at 65 miles an hour. His take on it is that she wasn't hit by a car at all, even at 25 miles an hour. It's not consistent with a vehicle strike. One of the key things that he mentioned was in terms of her the ribs that

“were broken, and that she had fractures on ribs. I think it was two to five in the front, and”

for in the back, he was saying that that doesn't make sense because there would have been more ribs broken. Like those particular ribs, it would have been the ones that surround them as well. And his view was that that was actually more consistent with more localized impacts. I asked him what he thought could have caused that and his take on it was that it was something it could be something like stomping. He kept coming back to the fact that it looked like a

beating. He said that, you know, obviously the head injuries, arm injuries, lesser had explained they're all consistent with faith being either beaten or kicked more so than pedestrian versus vehicle. You remember Stevie mentioned that Ryan used to squeeze her, so I asked him specifically whether he thought that something like that could have caused it and he said no. He didn't think that was possible. The other thing I talked about was the live immortal, and whether the secondary

liever would have shown up within the window of time that faith was on the highway. And his answer that was no, there wasn't enough time for it to have settled if she was on her side. So therefore it is unlikely that they would have been a secondary live immortal. So that answers that question a

“little bit. That was one of the questions we had outstanding of why, why was that not recorded?”

It probably didn't settle and it probably didn't exist. So okay, hold on, go back. Sure, liever mortis. The liever mortis was fixed on her posterior, correct? Correct. So, and it doesn't fix until six hours later? At least. So how is it that liever mortis was a parent and fixed on posteriorly, but she was on her left side? So it would have been when they took her away. So that would have positioned her on her back

when they took her away. And then she would have waited that way until they performed the autopsy essentially. So it would have set while she was waiting. Okay. Which means she was on the right of that highway for supposedly four hours on her left side. So this is where they were in that four hours. There would have been no kind of in the case. There would have been. It would have started to settle in that space,

but it doesn't fix until after that six hour window. So even at six hours, it's not fully fixed. It's just that's when it starts to fix in that position. So it potentially would have been visible

on her left side at that sort of four hour mark when they first got to the scene. But after she was

then taken away and she was put on her back, it means that she must have been on her back for at least six hours before they performed the autopsy. Then that's when it would have fixed. It sort of shifted from her left side to her back and then fixed. The other question that I had around that, which was whether there was any way we could tell whether her body had been moved to the highway, his view on that again was that was probably not.

He asked about blood on the ground and I said, "No, there wasn't any." So he found that interesting given that she had a head injury, right? Right. And head injuries lead profusely. The other thing as well was the fact that her brow was cut.

services. But his take on that was no. That's not something they would do. They don't cut

“it. They wouldn't work around it. The other question I asked him on that front was, "Would it be”

possible for her to have sustained that those injuries and walked to the half of my, you know, point where she was found?" Is it possible that she sustained those injuries? She walked out of the property to essentially escape. Because in a somewhat of a confused state, because let's not forget she was heading away from town into literally into the darkness. Is it possible for her to have

done that? Walking for your stumbling for, you know, half a mile and 20 minutes, with a lung

injury and a less-arrated spleen. And his take was that it was possible, but not likely. Well, the last question that I put to him was, you know, I just wanted to ask him clearly. And I said to him, "When your professional opinion is there any way that this was a vehicle, this is pedestrian collision?" And his answer was, "No." Not possible. So he was absolutely definitive on that thing.

Definitive. Now again, that contradicts the other opinion that we had, and as a opinion, but, you know, to a degree, if Signal30 saying, "Would be homicide, could be motor vehicle collision, and as saying motor vehicle collision, but not at speed." Tony's saying, "Not a motor vehicle collision, OSBI is saying motor vehicle collision, OSP is saying, "Not a motor vehicle collision." It's clear that it isn't as cut and dry as we might think from that side.

As we're getting ready to close out the call, Amanda springs something on me that I never,

in a million years, expected. Okay, so Brian reached out to Caitlin, talking about how he wants to tell the truth, and he wants to meet with us. He actually made a call that my son-in-law Casey picked up, and Casey talked to Ryan a little bit about meeting up, and he's wanting to tell us the truth about what really happened. So we're going to meet with him, and we'll see what happens. What he has to say.

I'm going to be interesting.

“Don't know how to tell anybody this. The only thing I know to do is to do the right thing.”

And I love to tell you, I love to say, I love it with everything, and I want you to know that I fought, and I fought, and I know everybody's got this whole time. If you're thinking about being a Scott-free, I felt like I was Scott-free, but it's holding me. I don't know how to let go of much of anything, and I feel like the only way for me to let go of anything is to let go of the truth. I don't know how to tell you all this, but I feel like she

killed herself because of our relationship. Because of things we said to each other, and I don't know.

“She did not kill herself, Ryan. She was not hit by a car. Did your mother not tell you?”

She said, "Somebody said it was Ryan. I told him that he knows he fell. Investigators had that conversation with your mom. The whole vehicle thing was rolled out a long time ago. She did not kill herself. She was not hit by a car. You think died at that house? You know what? I'm just your past relationship that we know about. That is point-to-finger at you."

[Music]

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episode notes. Blunt Force Drama is a production of EchoSpace written and hosted by Troy Taylor. Executive producers of Troy Taylor, Mark Terrulli and French shirts are. A main theme song is "Lose my Mind" by Maya Davidoth, and the show also contains audio content from movie gratis.