EP: 412 The Kingdom Manifesto with Brad Gray and Joel Edwards

but it's still a full space.

It's just over the middle. No, I don't know. This door is my safe space. Hmm, do you have anything to say? Yeah, exactly.

This door is like this door. They just understand.

“They just do the job or the way they are.”

The door is closed. I don't think they are. The door is closed. With this door. When Jesus says pray, you know, our Father in the heavens,

the one you rule and reign on how you are holy, your kingdom come, and you're will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus is talking about how are you partnering with God to see the goodness and power of heaven

to take up residence here. And this was like for me, the moment where everything like, because Jesus didn't come just to take us from here together.

Right, there's no escapism. Everything he's talking about is how do you get the goodness and power of heaven to take up residence here? The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. Enjoy the journey.

This Smithsonian, that if they found out about large skeletons somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person. It's right. Because if one person's right to bust the paradise,

it all goes back to the phone, chair, and the problem with the modern day church, they had a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop, this is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning, associated with this Mount Herman of the end.

What? And this guy, defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal.

“What if the prayer you've known Luke for a lifetime holds the key”

to living a life of abundance and purpose? We've got director Joel Edwards, an author of the book, bringing heaven here, Brad Gray, in the studio, in the blurry basement.

Welcome gentlemen to come down here. We're talking about the Lord's prayer today, and all things supernatural. We're talking into you right yesterday about bringing heaven here, and we're going to keep that conversation going today.

So we're excited. I don't know when those episodes are coming out, but we're in that vein with you guys. So we love to hop into the story. You made a film.

And the film is called the Lord's Prayer. Okay. And then this is the book. Yeah. The Brad, you and Brad.

Two Brad's. This is like Brad's. Yeah. The two Brad's.

You could've got a third Brad.

Yeah. And it could've been three. That sounds like a great podcast. Three Brad's. Yeah.

This is especially fun for me, because Brad, you are a teaching pastor at the church that I go to church the city here in Franklin. And we know each other a little bit. And then Joel Edwards, one of my best friends in the world,

film maker, evolved studios. And I got it was really fun for me, because I had sort of the inside track. As you guys were out shooting the film, you know Joel was sending your kids and pick up dates and videos

and send your videos to the Iron Dome. The Iron Dome. Yeah. It was crazy. But how do you make a film about the Lord's Prayer?

A very long journey. Yeah. Six years in the make up. This thing took six years. Wow.

What do you start? You start with a hopefully a really good idea. Yeah. That was kind of the the impetus behind this was for me growing up in the church and actually haven't been a pastor for a number of years.

It was about seven years ago for me. I was reading the Lord's Prayer. And it starts before Jesus even gives the prayer.

“It says, "This then is how you should pray."”

And I just had this moment reading it going. Oh, I think you actually meant that. Yeah. And it was pretty clear. It was pretty clear.

And yet for most people, if they're familiar with the Lord's Prayer, which most people are familiar, is so familiar that it became unfamiliar. And that was true for me.

Yeah. And so really just kind of started a internal journey to understanding the prayer. And once I just saw how much it transformed my own journey and how I prayed,

then when we started coming together working on an idea initially a global television series that then went into a film and the television series will come out in a few months. Everything around the Lord's Prayer just got unlocked and we just said let's let's find a way to really give people a cinematic immersive journey.

That's a lot of fun. So you start with the first two our father.

That's right. Is it you start there? That's the first part of the film. That's the first episode. One is just our father. It's just those to be a loaded statement for a lot of Christians. That's right. You know like and it gets into the Trinity and all the talks that we have a lot of an our show. So, I'm it and I was so we talked pre you know pre real pre show about this guys. I'm really excited because I think one thing we haven't done explicitly on the show is really talk about prayer and this is the way that we're told Jesus told us how to pray and

I think this is great context because a lot of times when we have conversations on the show,

astrology or new age things. There's all these avenues by which folks connect

“with the super the spiritual realm or the supernatural world right everyone is sort of semantically qualified at”

and the Bible tells us not to do those things a lot of those things whether it be like crazy things like Necromancy or sorcery but also like not a do astrology and so people that are having these experiences now modern experiences whether it be Joe Rogan talking about DMT or psychedelics folks that are really what we've talked about hopping the fence explicitly the Bible gives us a way to connect with God. It's through prayer and and supplication fasting right these these ways that are

maybe much less flashy and There's a lot of humility in the Lord's alert exactly so I'm excited to get into this and just really talk about Jesus tells us this is how to pray. This is our way to connect with God that he's given us right. We are past the boom him in the boom him and you know and and the things of the Old Testament where then God to give him the ways for the for the priests and for his chosen leaders to

connect with him and and through the work of Jesus Jesus is how we pray and you kind of Brad let us off with like you know I read it and realize that we've we've white washed us or we it's become so familiar it's unfamiliar so where do we start with the Lord's prayer and and what Jesus telling us this is how you connect this is how you pray um yeah what does that begin and then I will then I would love to get into the film we can talk about some of the blurry things that happen

“out in Israel but I think this is a topic I would love to dive into as we really talk to our listeners”

and even to our own hearts about how we connect with God in this way because prayer is a weird thing right I mean it is a weird thing it's like we pray a lot because it's right 10 years simply 20 years for for something and maybe don't get an answer and then some people pray and they're getting an meaning answer and there's just there's not a formula that seems but then they're we're given one

yeah yeah yeah and I think one of the first places to start with the Lord's prayer even before you

get into the actual words of the Lord's prayer is what was the Lord's prayer for Jesus you know it wasn't just a prayer that Jesus was teaching people to pray was actually the prayer that he was living out in his own life and I think that was one of the big reveals for me when I did my initial study seven years ago really a deep deep dive into this it was like oh my goodness like this is the essence of everything Jesus was about and actually when you look at the entire

biblical narrative 66 books 119 chapters if you want the greatest distillation anywhere in scripture for understanding who God is why Jesus came and what our purpose is here on earth as human beings it's actually in the Lord's prayer and so when you begin to realize this is this is a blueprint for daily living and Jesus was living it out and he's teaching others to do it as well because Jesus has a mission he's got a mission and he's not just looking for people to help them clean up their lives he's actually

looking for partners to join him in this massive redemptive movement that he is taking to a whole new level when he enters into human existence and the way in which he wanted his followers to be reminded of the mission every day was actually praying the Lord's prayer. I fact more of the fascinating things is that we have an early document it's called the dedicate which is an early discipleship training manual that dates to either the late 1st century 80 which is concurrent with the New Testament or

early 2nd century 80 and it's the only place that we have around the same time period where we have

the entire Lord's prayer listed in this discipleship training manual first time outside of the

Bible that we have it in evidence and it finishes with and you shall pray this way three times a day so this early church community that is using this as a discipleship training manual in the Lord's prayers just one of many things this was a thing that they anchored themselves around three times a day to be reminded all throughout the day this is what we are here to do. Do you feel like people think

“it gets repetitive or it gets wrote religious yeah totally that's what they don't do it. I think”

in many cases people have said it so much that yeah they have no idea what they're saying anymore some people do it out of habit I mean I've got a number of buddies you probably do as well where before I've got a number of friends in the NFL and they all tell me every team we say the Lord for before we go out onto the field you know they have no and at one of my buddies who's been part of this project he was like I can't wait for all my teammates to actually know what they've

been praying for so long and for me it was familiar enough that it just it lost any kind of sense of meaning that I didn't even engage with it I mean when I realized I was like oh my this is

more than a decade leading biblical study hiking trips for you know 15 years now and I'm like

I wasn't even doing it and so this has been part of the fun of working with Joel and and our teams on this is to take something that's familiar and just show people how unbelievable it is how deep the rabbit hole goes with every single phrase but more than that not just so that people are like excited about it they're actually living it out and it becomes that daily blueprint through which you recognize this is this is what I'm supposed to do on a daily basis

let's do that let's okay we unwind it a little bit can we can we we sort of un yeah can we break down the verse with you yeah you know we hear a lot of the same stories over the years on the podcast and sometimes you put the pieces together and as Christians some often times we hear the crucifixion story and we don't hear from a fresh perspective but the cross is one of those stories that if you could hear it again

“for the first time maybe you can move you in a different way and that's why if the tree could”

speak as such a fascinating idea it's the new book from Tim Cebo and it's a story of perspective of the cross and the crucifixion and the perspective and what if the wood itself could talk and tell the story it's very poetic it's got great illustrated narrative I read it with my kids and my oldest son was asking me about your questions about it so it's really you're in my heart it's not just something that we're just saying on the podcast yeah it really makes you slow down and

and feel the weight of what Jesus did and as we you know walk through the season of celebrating his resurrection this is something I think that we'll stick with you long after you put it down you want to pick it up maybe you make this a tradition ever Easter season to reread the story it's as you said before it's it's amazingly illustrated it's got stunning graphics and it that really captures people of kids and adults of all ages I love the fresh perspective you know our

our friend Tim Cebo did an amazing job putting this together this is something I know our family's going to be keeping out and putting out every every year to remind ourselves of the work of Christ and just just looked at from from a new perspective so you can join us step inside the story here

the witness and experience Easter like never before check out Tim Cebo's book if the tree could

speak on Amazon that's if the tree could speak by Tim Cebo what you're copying on Amazon today well I think you know start with just what it is right I think from most of us might my experience with this this is an old crusty piece of of scripture and teaching like something the Jesus said and it's not that it it it face value it doesn't feel like it's that impressive you know it's not some grand illustration or parable it doesn't have all of the dynamic elements of of stories or

“teachings that he normally gives us just like hey this is how you should pray boom boom boom real quick”

but it's really fascinating it's literally at the center of his teaching on the servant of the mountain it's like the it's the absolute nucleus of everything and we talk about that in the film and there's so much more there and so the idea is okay have we overlook this is this is it really just a crusty piece of liturgy or is is kind of maybe if once you get into it contextually and you know we we say this all the time a context is everything if to understand it what it

it mean to them what does it mean to us there's so much it goes into context when you start peeling it apart it it really becomes fascinating and so the way that it's broken down is literally in the movements our father in the heavens holy be your name so this idea originally came as a television show which is still gonna happen we just ended up making a pilot and then went on this journey and we ended up making a film is Mark Burnett saw our pilot was like you this should be a movie for us like

“you need a little toe into this before you go seven episodes so it's 82 minutes but then the show”

is going to break down each one of those sections so yeah I mean each section is so rich yeah interesting about this too though before we start with our father is that the disciples have been with Jesus for quite some time now and it's funny to me that at this point they're like well to just have to pray and I'm like I'm even with the guy for walking around your day for how long

you know and which I always think is funny too like they don't it feels like us it feels like

Israel all the time and in the old testament just like yeah we don't really know we're doing here we're just gonna we're gonna do our own thing like you know we're gonna or we're gonna forget you know yeah well actually the interesting thing about that is that it's later in the gospel of Luke it only shows up in Luke and Matthew Luke is a little bit later chapter 11 great moon Matthew is in you know the sermon on the mount begins in Matthew chapter five and the sermon it goes

five six and seven and the Lord's prayers in is in chapter six but what's fascinating about Luke's version is it the the preface to that is the disciples asking Jesus to pray teach us to pray like

is that we believe that every rabbi who was training disciples had a particular prayer that was

“unique to that particular group so if you heard somebody praying a prayer you'd be like oh you go”

with John the Baptist you know or you go with Jesus so it's prayer was a significant part of their daily rhythms they had multiple prayers so it's not so much are they teaching us how to pray it's what is the prayer that is unique to us or what what are you all about because it's in the very prayer that you have the nucleus as Joel was mentioning of everything Jesus was about and one of the things that they understood is that anytime a rabbi gave you a prayer to pray it wasn't just a

prayer you prayed asking God to fulfill it it was a prayer that you knew you had a part to play in making in a reality so you're both asking God as well as going in what role do I get to play

in making this thing a reality because they always understood prayer as participatory not just

petition so interesting sitting in our conversation with with Antie right we had I can't help think like his inefusions and the odds is a bit of an aside but he was talking about the idea of his take on predestination for example and he is his take is it's it's a vocational not

“locational in a sense that like that we are all given jobs within the body and that's what Paul's”

talking about and it's really interesting if that's what the context of prayer is that we're not only you know asking God for things but also asking for our assignments maybe on right or our participation and that's what Paul's echoing then later in the letters is saying you've been chosen for these jobs it's always like you know he's got to come around and continue to try to explain to people because I think Antie kind of put us our minds that there's like a preloaded

thought of what's going to happen when Jesus throws on the scene first it was is this actually the guy that's supposed to come here so everyone brings all this baggage emotionally into the end to the moment and then obviously Jesus teaches them they're kind of getting it and then Paul has to come back and be like a way okay so let's respect this time again you know and I think that humans are really hard headed and it takes a long time of hearing the same things right okay I

get it maybe I'm slowly getting and we've slowly changed over time but let's break down the verse you know kind of phrase by phrase and sort of what our listeners and me particularly us you know Protestant people who haven't heard anything is this is you know as Joel mentioned everything that we're doing with this is about context and context is everything and yet the vast majority of

people have never been taught how to think about the Bible in its comprehensive context of history

geography the cultural backgrounds language literary design the visual settings and that's really where the prayer on locks for for all of us you know whether it's been something that people have said or you know has been part of their rhythm or it's not been part of their rhythm but but yeah let's let's take our effort from them because you made a comments like okay that almost someone's kind of like you're almost hitting a wall for some people just even with the very beginning and this is where

the context again is absolutely everything and on locks and I love that you said that because it's something that we've kind of banged the drum on the show is we had Dr. Michael Hyzeron and and Hyzeron the thing that stuck with me as you said the Bible was written for or was written for you been at to you right that it is whole his whole expose that on everything was like this is written to an interesting culture that had this foundation of cultural knowledge and they had they understood little

stories we you know we talked about just six and things like that and so only four verses but you know

“they knew the context and the story that it didn't need to be explained and I think we forget that”

often in the West especially we read it read ourselves into the Bible and then we read it as 21st century westerns instead of like hey this had a lot of nuanced and cultural context that we miss because we aren't for century Judeans right so yeah what do you what do you think our father yeah what do you think about yeah and this exactly we just said it's what did they hear right not what are we hearing first and that's usually where the first hurdle comes is out you know when

Jesus is teaching them how to pray if you're gonna enter into the vulnerable state of prayer it's who are you praying to and how do you think about the one that you are praying to and when Jesus starts often says you know you begin with our father one of the big hurdles that a lot of people have is they are immediately thinking about God in relationship to their earthly father what what's the relationship I have with my dad and if you don't have a great relationship immediately you're

already starting to feel the tension around the prayer and but here's the great thing is that God

never sought to be defined through the experience you've had with your earthly father and for those

initial listeners on that hillside 2,000 years ago when they heard our father they would have

their scripture soaked minds to go where does this first show up in scripture and how does that

help us understand who God is and this is the thing about what we do in the film is immediately weren't Egypt because for them when they're thinking of our father the first place that God identifies himself as a father the first time father shows up in scripture is in the Exodus story when the Israelites are making mud bricks in Pharaoh's kingdom and God shows up to Moses in a burning bush has this conversation says I want you to go back and tell Pharaoh that Israel's my first born son

and I'm telling you let my son go which is God showing up as a father so the first thought that goes through a first century audience's mind is oh this is a God who is aware of our circumstances this is a God who is who is listening to the cry of his people this is a God who makes promises and then fulfills them and as he did in the Exodus story and then it just runs through it's not a huge theme but it's a threaded theme that shows up in multiple places throughout

the older testament or the Hebrew scriptures that for them they're realizing oh God is like the perfect parent that knows what we need and when we come to God and prayer we're coming to a compassionate aware God who is interested in being in relationship to us just like a familial

“relationship which is always the most intimate kind of relationship to half well I think it's interesting”

he's because you know our father the plural yeah yeah yeah it is the whole prayers in the communal by the way well I think that you know there's a lot of debate about speaking of eyes are like the two powers in heaven and this whole idea that there is a relationship and that at the time this is the division between Christians and Jews they don't believe that there's a relationship there

or Jesus and what they thought he was going to be but it's like interesting the first thing he

says is my dad right and I think that for whatever reason over the church history we've had a lot of debates about what that is but I think it's it's a relationship that he's talking to and I think I think Jesus and his father are there a lot in the Old Testament and we've talked about like and what in what context is the angel of the Lord usually there yeah this is relationship going on I think it's like yeah we can think about our own father immediately but I wonder if they didn't

fully understand the relationship between God the father and the son do you think that's a part of it and they they had to they had to learn that as they went where does Bigfoot get all this fiber he sure does he shared this look he's eaten a lot of ruffage out there yeah eating pineapple

“how do we get that fiber Luke but we don't eat pine needles or turn trees upside down you have to”

try that but what we found for us here is the mantis fiber plus is really been a solution I got some sentiment flavored fiber I put into my protein shake in the morning and in a mantis fiber plus addresses one of the most overlooked foundations of long-term performance that's our gut or actually talking about really really working on your digestion and your health like a lot of that starts in the gut as we're finding out and fiber is a way to really drive gut health

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“getting that fiber that's going to to impact your health by impacting your gut and I think this is”

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readers we know where the story is going it's hard to slow the story down long enough to put ourselves in their sandals and to really understand you know I mean even just think about the the

the kingdom of heaven is that does the nucleus of the entire prayer but he starts with the word

repent and we just think oh that's kind of a weird way to start but the word that is actually used the word repent there means to change your mind so he's starting off and saying you have an idea of how you think this whole thing's going to get rolled out and I'm telling you from the get go you're gonna have to change your mind right and so this is why he's constantly having to tell stories the kingdom of heaven is like this the kingdom of heaven is like that and he's telling

these stories about it you think it's this way it's actually this yeah because they're waiting for a like a conquering conquering right to bring the sword to you know to politically liberate

which is the reason why we a lot of you know they don't accept Christ as the Messiah still to this day

right just a gap in expectations waiting for something else that's interesting because it's

“a repent ideas like you have to change your mind about this this is not the way it's”

yeah because it is you have to kind of change your mind and and part of repentance means to return to the path I mean if you go back to the Hebrew etymology of this the idea is that there's two paths in life there's God's path and there's every other path and when you stray off God's path repentance means you're returning to the path you returning to the way in which you're called to walk in the world but the thing that you just mentioned too that that's super

interesting is that because they were expecting a messianic figure who was connected back to Moses

which is you know they're looking for a new accident so looking for a second Moses to lead a new

accident and they have all of these expectations and anticipations and it was through Moses that God first identified himself as a father and so the fact that Jesus is beginning a prayer and saying pray to our father to use that language of father is like okay redemption is on its way and this is not actually a liberation you know when this we we don't actually talk about this in the film but this is in our first episode is that it's not just what he's saying

it's on whose lips he's saying this you know because for the people to hear like our father

“goes back to the Exodus story and that's what they're longing for every year they're coming”

together during the Passover season to remember how God rescued and redeemed them from their slavery and Egypt and now the Romans are over them you know so it's just been replaced it went from you know from the Egyptians to the Assyrians to the Babylonians to the Persians to the Greeks they had a little reprieve during the Macabeean revolt and the Romans come in and now they're anticipating this again and what they don't realize is that Jesus' mission isn't to conquer Rome it's to defeat

sin death in the devil and that's something that's a big big figure to say this is why we had to make a movie and an episodic series in right above yeah so yeah I've been human being since the dawn of time have had more of an economic and political liberation in mind when when connecting with God right we're gonna politically take over we're gonna economically take over and there's just four dimensional kind of war going on outside of it Jesus also one of the last things he says is for

Father forgive them yeah and then at his baptism this is my son there's this clear language

“that's that's is that being missed by a lot of people in this day and age?”

Well and here's I mean this is its own kind of canot worms but one of the most because I think it's just heavy yeah well I think one of the things that that is also just fascinating when you get into this kind of discussion is that one of the most prolific passages that people had in mind with the coming of the Messiah is actually from Psalm chapter two and Psalm chapter two has this passage in here where it's talking about the coming Messiah and the language is

this because we immediately think it's divine but it says this Psalm chapter two verse seven it says actually in going to verse six I've installed my king on Zion my holy mountain I will proclaim the Lord's decree he said to me you are my son today I have become your father hmm so this is actually when you talked about being a son of someone in the ancient world it was I've come in the authority of my father so even at the baptism when God says this is my son who my love with him my

well please he's actually quoting three different passages from the three parts of the old testament and chief among them is Psalm two seven but for them it wasn't the expectation that the coming Messiah was going to be divine hmm that was like they're having to try to wrestle with the implications of you're not just the coming Messiah to inaugurate God's kingdom it was the later understanding oh my goodness there somehow you're connected in in divinity like that was something

they're trying to do the lesser Yahweh is is the way that if the second temple folks were trying

to sort of figure this out right there's this other angel Lord there's another Yahweh that's anyway I mean that's they were wrestling with the whole thing but even just saying the language of our father the immediately just brings a whole host of understandings and we were having a discussion about previously so that our only begotten is inheritance language so it's like you know and we see that a lot where here's the inheritance of the father to the son throughout the

Old Testament so Jesus was like given it's like Psalm 82 yeah given the inheritance in the nation through his given her power and authority yeah only that means just one son with all of his dads I don't know but I can't I can't understand it in any other way I've listened to my whole life the church kind of explained this doesn't make any sense until you just think this

“is a father's son relationship that's the best way literary to to understand but we are afraid”

of that conversation for some reason so but here it is and even sometimes Jesus says you know not my will that yours right what wait a minute wait a minute so there's this there's there is a father we can kind of drum they beat this drum forever we've been about 15 minutes on the father we made two words into the family we need to make a movie that's not in a series

we need to do a whole episode the first two but it's loaded it's really loaded and I think the

ancients and the moderns we don't we don't understand either we have dad baggage or we had expectations of of what that looks like but that's interesting I didn't think that they didn't know that Jesus was going to be you know right alongside in terms of power and authority on earth given to him which is a real brainbuster more that we read into the story the thing is completely loaded for me you know as a professional storyteller like day job guy yeah this is one of those

“once you see it you can't unsee yeah you know kind of pieces of just magnificent scripture that”

sitting right there that you just kind of at least I certainly would you know just just graze over you know lords prayer like we were talking about usually like something grandpa says it Thanksgiving you know you're like whatever you know this is this is just old tradition or it's like Catholics they repeat this a lot just like the hundred percent like the hell Mary you know so our father who isn't having art and having everyone king James maybe we could do that uh how'll be that name and

we're let's do the the who aren't heaven who is in heaven it's actually literally recorded in the Greek which is the language of the New Testament in the heavens plural it's plural okay which is interesting because later in the prayer on earth as it isn't heaven is singular huh so when you actually realize that the first thing that is being said is in the heavens it's plural the first question you do is you go what what's going on with that and it's just it's just ancient

“cosmology how did the ancient people understand the world yeah because they didn't have the”

Hubble telescope they didn't have the James Webb telescope they didn't go to space and look back and see how everything was so they had a very honest reality which was I got the ground under my feet and I look up into the the heavens and they actually saw the world up and they broke it down into different tiers so they just that was just kind of their view of having language for what they were seeing and so you actually have a reference to Paul you know in Corinthians talking

about oh I know man who was taken up to the third heaven you know in a Jewish literature of the time there are three five seven ten or even more levels of the heavens but when Paul drops this reference in second Corinthians he doesn't explain it which seems obvious enough to him that he doesn't have to explain it you go what are the three like three heaven seems to be the the general understanding which was level one was just for them as where the birds are and that's where

the clouds are like they're they're all just right here yeah and then they're like okay we see all the sun the moon the stars and they seem to be attached to this dome right so they they don't know how you know close our close the stars which is actually insanely far away when you get into you know astronomy and all that so they saw the level two and then the third level didn't have a word for universe for example no I mean they were just they just maybe they did

but they did but it was it was more of the word that they actually have in the Hebrew scriptures is

a schmime which is heaven's plural like it's always in the plural that's sure is that is that

is that including the second and third heavens like the goddess because I know that we've talked about sort of the ancient cosmology which is like second heavens is kind of where all the all the spiritual and all the supernatural beings and the sun and the moon and the stars they all because the stars themselves are actually in in some of the ancient or angel beings right and then

this where god rules and reigns on high so to even just to say our father in the heavens was to be reminded of the fact that this is a god who sits above at all which was a place of ruling authority over the years we've gotten many strange emails from ranchers that their cows are disappearing and there's one thing you don't want Luke is that's a mystery meat you don't want to know it not know where your meat comes from you don't want to know if it's just floating over here from

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using our exclusive code blurry that's code blurry for twenty five dollars off your first order just to try good ranchers out because they're that confident that you're gonna love it good ranchers dot com American meat delivered the other aspect that you see all throughout the scriptures is that god is not a distant god he is constantly showing up to his people he's moving through the heavens and so when you put those together you go okay so this is really cool ancient cosmology

this is how the Jewish people thought about god is father what does that make any difference for us when we come to god and prayer because that's ultimately what we want to ask what did it mean for them and what is it and how does that help us today well when you come to god and prayer and you begin with the phrase our father and you are reminded as you slow down and think okay this is the god who is aware of our circumstances this is a god who makes promises and fulfills them he can be

trusted this is the perfect parent who knows what we need there's a compassion there's an

empathy and there's a relational side that's really warm and amazing but can you actually do

anything about my circumstances the very next line answers oh yeah he is the cosmic creator that holds the whole universe into place and what's more he's not just a distant god he's a present god so it talks about his power and his presence within his fatherly or parental nature to want the best for us and for us to be in a relationship where we can trust god despite whatever circumstances we have so when you just start off you go what kind of a god on my praying to it's

an all-knowing all aware loving compassionate cosmic creator who is as close to me as the air that I

“breathe so he's in all the heavens right it's all which is you know I think the presence is here”

is presence yeah you know yeah he's there but he's also here and we talk a little bit about that in the film we have a doctor doctor gain he talks about quantum entanglement and just the idea of how they've been able to measure people you know connecting at a cellular level on different parts of the earth and he's like that's the god that we're praying to so yeah it's yeah you get a big telescope you're like wow it's you know light years light years light years expands but it's also

like inside as well so close to the universe there's the universe there's the universe and gods and all of it so the first starts out very humble you know like uh yeah no your place in the universe no who's over the universe yeah yeah yeah yeah but he's also your dad family relationship yeah but I think you're struggling in the time with a lot of spiritual arrogance also like we know the truth and we're waiting for it to show up and it shows up and we're like

it's not here yet it's not here yet it's like no it's here it's right here I actually am here

“and I think that was just interesting to me that you know the son of god is standing in front of”

these guys it spent their whole life studying the scriptures and nothing no quantum entanglement to the son of god being in their presence talk about losing the plot you know like the guy you're waiting for is right here this son of the most high and you don't there's nothing in your spirit says hey this guy's different you know like you're completely wrong the road to mess they did

the broken expectation yeah it's classic classic image bearer move yeah yeah what I could

add it but I think we you know we don't like to humbly approach sort of anything as humans we kind of like to come on it with like you know I got this I got what it takes or I want to be in control yeah yeah but then that's the thing that's so so cool about and and we'll get down wherever you want to go with this yeah but speaking of the fact of empty right he talks about even when we get to the part of just daily bread not to bypass the rest of it but he says the problem

when we pray for daily bread is that we get there too soon for many people when they do go to God and prayer it's a laundry list of these are all things that I need and when you realize that the the place where you ask for something is much later in the prayer the whole beginning of the prayer

“is to frame what existence is supposed to look like so that you actually know what you should be”

praying for right and so when you start off with our father in the heavens you're going very humbly like I'm coming before the creator the universe who loves me as the perfect parent who's

is near to me as the air that I am breathing and these also powerful but he's not distant because sometimes

that's the issue is when people go well our father who are in heaven will God is somewhere far he's watching us from a distance you know not he's in the midst of this conversation right now it is interesting the the petitions come later in the prayer hold on the next the next line is as holy as your name or how to be right so it's like you're like you're here you're above it all and may you're holy so it's not but I can't touch right yeah yeah but that's what's one

of the questions that we also poses so God's name is supposed to be holy why does that matter like what I don't want to be you know sacrilegious what does it matter if God's name is holy right because we hear that how would be that name is probably the most archaic kind of word in there like we don't you know it's but if you hear the new like it brings it's it's supposed to to remind you how precious the name of God is but even more than that the word

holy or hallowed is in Hebrew the word kadoosh which means to be separate to be distinct to be other than and all throughout scripture God is saying I am not like the other gods in

“God is right I am distinct and I am holy but here's the thing that's so cool is that there's a”

two-sided aspect to holy be your name on the one hand what your praying is God I want people to see you for who you truly are that you are accurately represented you know so often God is

misrepresented but here's the thing that God did very tangibly in the Hebrew scriptures you

older testament is that when he brought the Israelites out of Egypt and he brought them to Mount Sinai and he starts to give them his we say law it's actually the word Torah which means teachings instructions God's instructions for life the whole thing at Sinai in Exodus 19 and 20 is actually a marriage ceremony of parallels a marriage ceremony where God says I am uniting with you as a people I am giving you my teachings my instructions because here's the other big thing I'm actually

giving you my name you are gonna bear my name and you even see this in the 10 commandments the commitment that says you shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain we think of that in terms of we'll just don't use God's name inappropriately don't be throwing any GDs around yeah exactly

“don't be yelling don't be yelling hasty so when you hit your your tongue well and here's the thing”

is in the Hebrew it literally reads you shall not miscarry the name of the Lord your God and God keeps reminding them even with the ironic blessing the Lord bless you and keep you the Lord make his face it shine upon you be gracious to you Lord turns face you and give you his peace the very next line God says in giving this instruction to Aaron and his sons to speak over the Israelites he says and in doing so you will put my name on my people hmm let's take this like taking a

line like a like a bride taking the last name yeah exactly like like Queenie taking Edwards yeah it's it this is where context is just kind of like you know it it really is mind blowing you really have to read it understand it differently than just you know open it up like I think in in our at least in the U.S. the way I grew up it's like Bible relay you know open it up it's read it okay do this is that written for me like it's so it's so different and so that's what we're

hoping to do yeah it keeps up enough to song a Solomon I don't know how this relates to you keep it there keep it there yeah it does it's interesting you know I mean most of us fathers who have a moment with our children it often feels kind of mind-blowing when they look at you and they go thank you for this that yeah you know what I mean and in your kind of like whoa you

relationship here and everyone's in a while it's like there's some there's some connections to be back yeah and a little bit of gratitude there's a little way yeah I had a while I'm moment with my youngest son he thanked me for changing one of his last diapers and I remember being dumbfounded because it was like it's two and a half years old and he goes thank you daddy for taking care of me and I thought well this is my first kid this is not how it's gonna go like and it was a it was a

“moment that I'm never forget because I was like I don't know what happens and yeah what happened”

is mine but he he knowledgeed what I was doing and I never expected and I thought you're going

to say that when you're 30 you know like maybe one day you're like you get to do that for me and a few years yeah yeah and it changed my life in a way of like wow this is really like I can understand a little bit more when I read the Lord's Prayer now thinking gum father and I understand that connection I understand that like longing and I understand that like but also that's not the purpose I didn't have kids to you know boost my ego yeah I wanted to learn about what it's like to love something

with all my heart and not necessarily it could hurt he could hurt me you know and we have I don't really know what that's a whole podcast but in this prayer sets it up with like you you kind of put

yourself in this relationship like you see where he is where you are you're posturing your humility

but there's also family there's an invitation God is holy but he's here I think oftentimes we just roll in and be like hey what am I getting what's up what do I want you know we know that doesn't work in relationships with females you can't just be like this is what I want you

“know have to kind of go through that you have to sort of enter you know how is your day what's going on”

the whole things but men we can get very that's five podcasts yeah that's all you can get very just like to the point I want to come back for the song a Solomon yeah yeah yeah yeah we can just go give us our bread and a lot of material for that but as I mean this in it of itself is like it's like a closeness but then it's also this reverence like so yes he's close and here right and yes he's our dad but also he's he's holy he's holy he's not to be messed with we've seen

with you kind of you know well and and this is a thing this is the the part of the prayer where it starts to get into the participatory because when god unites with his people and says you're gonna bear my name and what you do is gonna be a message to the world of what I'm like which is why

God is giving all these instructions he's basically saying this is what I value and this is what

you are to value if you're going to be in relationship and represent me in the world well when they didn't do that and they got exiled what you see the prophets keep talking about is you profane the name of the Lord by how you lived and there was a point where God was like you can't misrepresent me anymore I need to let you know the severity of what you've done and he puts them into exile and he says there will come a time where I'm going to reinstate the holiness of my name

because you have profane it among the nations so the idea we pressured that oh well and that is that's also a thing as you recognize like if you are a follower of Jesus you are the message of Jesus to a watching world the question is is are you representing him well are you when you say God I want people to have an accurate representation of you you represent God and what you do you know about I don't know is maybe year and a half ago my family and I were on vacation and we were at the

beach and my kids were playing and they were like you know we want something something to drink there you go kids asking for something get out and so I go over to the Tiki Hut and I get to the Tiki Hut and I'm putting in the words for the coax and the lemonade it all that kind of stuff is I got four kids and don't know how I'm going to carry all this and I turned to my left and there was a gal there who was in her 20s she's on one of the you know one of the swings

little rope swings and she's clearly had way too much to drink she is just belting at the top of her lungs she's being obnoxious and it is like you could tell she was completely trashed and I looked and she had Yod Havav hey God's intimate personal holy name tattooed on her or in huge letters

“and I remember going walking away going yeah what what we do matters we like she's literally”

bearing the name of God you know and but we all bear the name of God and what we do is an indication to others who God is and what he is like and so there's that moment where there is that reverence for who God is and then in the same moment you're going oh and I represent that that name in the world that kind of that moment jersey that that man of chef it's can sneak up on

is a reminder of the mission mm-hmm like there is a mission inside of this if you look at

“where can and is on the map it's legitimately the center why would God give them that land why would”

he want him why would he want his first born son to bear his name geographically

because everyone passes through it it's literally the center he wants to tell everyone else about his mission about his name and how he is the way and he is the truth so if you look at the trade routes I mean Israel can and is literally the center everyone has to get through there so it's stuff like that you know again when you learn it in context you're like wow I didn't I didn't realize that it's important he's trying and instructing us and wanting us to bear his name what that means is

to live like him to follow him to be all of the virtues I mean most of the most of of the the Old Testament law and instruction is really like here's how this practically works

you know here's how you deal with your donkey running over your neighbors you know all of

trade like here's how to do it practically because it all glorifies him it all is his way it's actually going to point people to him and keep people to him so it's it's really a lot bigger than just this is an awesome name right it's it's a whole life stuff it's gonna put yeah so you're awesome

“good you're will be done on earth as in his is in heaven you know I think oftentimes we we have”

discussions on the podcast about how earth mirrors heaven not the other way around we ripped off a lot of things from heaven angels interacted with us give us information other things that we the weirder parts of the Bible we talk about all the time but I don't think we came up with a lot of

these ideas originally so there's something we're doing down here is mirroring there there's a

will there is a will here but they seem to be often very similar you know we talk a lot about how there's tables in heaven they're having meals they're hanging out what happens in our minds to think you think ancients were having a hard time wrapping their mind around what goes on up there what are they doing yeah what does it mean you're a will are it aren't just like a thousand spirits just singing to you all day long is that all that's happening up there there's no we kind of

“mean we got them to recently was just that idea that the ancient paradigm was that heaven and earth”

were so intimately overlapping so when when you just saying your kingdom coming will be done on earth as it isn't heaven how we meant to read that in context then what what your thoughts on that bro yeah and the unlock is a word kingdom because that is you know most people when they think about why did Jesus come right the thought as Jesus came to die in order to save us from our sins in order that we could go to heaven after we die that's part of it but that's a very very narrow

understanding of what Jesus was doing Jesus didn't come just to die Jesus came to live Jesus came to demonstrate in flesh and blood what God's willing way looks like being lived out here on earth and fifty times in the gospel of Matthew alone the kingdom is referenced okay and heaven is like this is like this and so you go what is the kingdom of heaven because when we think of kingdom of heaven we think about something that's like what's happening like city of God right

kind of but it's also not just kingdom of heaven it's also called kingdom of God and so fantastic passage some one fifteen verse sixteen says the highest heavens belong to the Lord but the earth he has given to humankind and what the writers there's talking about realms and Dallas Willard and his brilliant book divine conspiracy defined realm our kingdom as the range of your effective will meaning if you have this range of effective will for all intent

purposes it's a kingdom like you have a kingdom you have a kingdom of a kingdom you have a kingdom like it's a little cake kingdom we don't use this language very often like it would say my kingdom for this right for exactly for a cold drink whatever it is you know but the reason why the writers saying the highest heavens which is now going back to the cosmology belongs to the Lord heaven or the highest heavens is a realm where things are as God intends them to be God's will

God's way it happens in heaven the earth is different why Genesis 3 messed everything out and so what's fascinating about when Adam and Eve take from the tree sin death broken his pain you could summarize it chaos entered into the human order God doesn't just scrap at all and say well I didn't work the way I thought let's just start over God goes I'm going to put the whole thing back together and when he chooses Abraham and his descendants to be the bearer of his blessing that's supposed

to go to all nations they're struggling to live out that mission to the point that when Jesus

and he says the kingdom of heaven is now like it's arriving like we use this language the kingdom

“is already and but not yet it's actually more biblical to say the kingdom is already with even more”

to come and when Jesus shows up and he makes this proclamation what we see is that that phrase kingdom of God or kingdom of heaven actually doesn't show up in the Old Testament but the idea the kingdom is all over the place what happened was is after the events of the Old Testament concluded before the gospel events began that intertestimental period among the sages and rabbis they solidified this language of kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God so that when Jesus shows up and

uses the phrase everybody knows what he's talking about and what he is talking about is what

they were anticipating is that all throughout the scriptures God is talking about that there will

come a time where he's going to act with power unprecedented since the fall in Genesis chapter three and the language they ascribe to that was the kingdom of heaven meaning the goodness and the power that is in heaven is going to start taking up residence on earth and so when Jesus says pray you know our father in the heavens the one you rule and reign on how you are holy your kingdom come and you're will be done on earth as it is in heaven Jesus is talking about

how are you partnering with God to see the goodness and power of heaven to take up residence here and this was like for me the moment where everything like because Jesus didn't come just to take us from here to go right there's no escapism everything he's talking about is how do you get the goodness and power of heaven to take up residence here so it's like there's a dominion verse saying like you're playing a part and are are you going to align your little k kingdom to the kingdom

so that not only when you're doing what God is asking you to do you experience the goodness and restoration in your own life but then you become a conduit through which God works through you to impact other people because you have a realm of influence that's actually what I was going to use exactly we we expanded a minion of heaven in the sense we've used this line before like we are the regents if you are the governors of this space God gave to Adam and by birthright it's for humans right

yeah yeah which is why we'll judge angels what we're in a pause because they this is not their place the minion belongs to us but we can also what we can give that dominion which God already has but you can work through us to regain or reclaim so if we're making a film sometimes there's like a story within a story sometimes there's like an opening scene that is the whole movie and then kind of see the end of the beginning yeah you see it backwards obviously your filmmaker is the

Lord's prayer like an encompassing like movie of all of it like we're when you pull out the data it's like well that kind of started there and that guy was Genesis language and it moves through or there any other relationships stories in the Old Testament for example that mirror the Lord's

“prayer yeah we see it all connected yeah it's it's the whole story Jesus entire life is on the”

canvas of the Exodus story like that is the template is it all goes back to Exodus now brokenness everything that Jesus came to redeem and restore goes all the way back to the very beginning you know pretty much everything in the Bible can be traced back to Genesis one two and three I mean it's all sitting

there but for Jesus he's coming as a second Moses to lead a new Exodus God first shows up his

father in the Exodus story everything is about why does God rescue Israel in the first place is it just because they're enslaved no it's because God made a promise to Abraham all the way back in Genesis 12 I'm gonna bless you and the whole world's gonna be blessed for you and when Israel's enslaved in Egypt the plan can't do what the plan is designed to do right God says I brought you out and I brought you to myself like that's how Exodus 19 I carried you on Eagles wings and I brought you to

myself and then he says do you want to be in partnership with me and their responses yes and then

“God goes then the whole restoration movement is underway and that's what the whole Bible is about”

you know when Joel said earlier the Lord's prayer and this is something that Jonathan Dr. Jonathan Pennington who's on who's in the film just brilliant observations like the center of everything Jesus was doing is contained in the sermon on the mount like that is the kingdom manifesto in the sermon on the mount the center of the sermon on the mount is the Lord's prayer the center of the Lord's prayer is kingdom come so the kingdom part is the center of the center of the center of the

center whereas for us we often think in terms of okay the best is at the end right we've got the end of the fireworks display that's the end here's the crescendo we think in terms of

you're you're laying it out and you get to the middle and then you come back down it's like a

“literary sandwich what is in the middle it's a chiasom exactly yeah that's what the whole”

Lord's prayer is centered around because once you realize that you have been deployed by God to partner with him to see his will and his way advance in the world then the rest of the prayer these are the petitions I need in order to make this a reality because you just hit the culminating point of the entire prayer which is the kingdom and again kingdom is referenced 50 times alone in the gospel of Matthew we like to say for 2,000 years people have been teaching Jesus the problem

is is that his message hasn't always been included so how would they have understood

as quickly do you think how are they have understood on earth as in heaven how are they have understood that you know there's that whole sort of paradigm where God is far he's a way but that wasn't their paradigm no no and they actually to and this is one of things that was kind of a fallacy wrong Lord's prayers that a lot of people say what Jesus instituted a very personal way of engaging with God if you actually go through Jewish prayers it is very intimate is very personal but the

thing is is that so cool about your kingdom come your will be done on earth as is in heaven is it comes on the heels of holy beer name what are they all intimately aware about we did not carry God's name well we went into exile and now that we're in the land but they still felt like that they were in exile it was we get to partner with God in such a way where God's goodness gets to flow through us as a community and that we have the ability to impact other people so if you just

tangibly say so what's how how do we live that out we all have influence we all have resources we all have gifts and talents and the question becomes is our waking moment when we get up in the morning how do I advance my kingdom my cause what I want to have happen in the world or do we say God how do I take what you have given to me in order to use that in a way that your will in your way

“gets gets out there and that's what you're praying about is how am I going to live my life today”

that partners with the king of the universe who wants to work with me wherever he's placed us you know this is the thing is God God wants people in all facets of society and all aspects of you know media and film and non-profit and for-profit and business and education and all of that and that that's how they would have understood it as we are collaborating with God

to see his will and his way advance here and now and I get to be a part of it I think the first

time I thought about something like that was like when I was a kid we learned about the underground railroad and how like you know they they were you know all working together that's yeah that's a that's a great analogy they're all working together they all have your jobs during the day yeah but then at night they're like doing God's work and rescuing people and somehow there's this network and they all have this quantum entanglement

it's of some kind is send and help and it's like multiple things going on at once yeah I have my house but you can use my house and we can actually like it's no it's also a train station though my house is also a train station yeah it stops here yeah but you also realize

“everybody's working together for a singular mission yeah exactly and that's what this whole”

prayer is supposed to do is to remind you that you're not alone this whole prayer is in the plural yeah you're banding together to go how do we how do we understand who God is and what he wants in the world and then how do I enact that through what I have in front of me and what God

is gifted me to do it's crazy I'm looking at this prayer and I really I never really realized

it is a chaos I'm as fascinating because it's like the way that it goes it's like you're your father you're holy you're kingdom and then it's give us for give us lead us deliver us yours is the kingdom you're powerful and in holy it's a reminder it's a circular praying to you it reads and we talked about chasms and scripture which is really really interesting when it gets to prophecy and things like that but interesting that he that he even this is the way

he presents it as well like Jesus saying this is because it is it's repetitive in a way it goes it works to the middle then it works back out then the same in the same way so after this after heaven we get give us the stair daily bread forgive us our debts as we forgive in our debtors so after you've acknowledged you God is and he's a father he's holy God you're a will right you're kingdom you're a will yeah now I got a little a couple things I need right which is

so what where where does this go and how do we read through the right through the rest of the prayer obviously like we need something we owe something yeah you know well if you go back to the the quote from Enti right the problem with asking for bread as we get there too soon yeah

you get a part to play you're called the represent God's name well God has given you gifts and

“abilities and opportunities steward them well to advance what he wants in the world and he submitted”

your will till you're like yeah yours right it's maybe I need something yeah well and here's the great part about daily bread is that that is something that is used in scripture to just denote

what do you need tomato you know and it does the first thing that we thought of as God

providing daily bread for 40 years in the desert in the midst of their vulnerable circumstances as he was training them to be his message bearers in the world because as Joel mentioned they're in the desert for 40 years and the reason why they're in the desert for 40 years is that you know you can take the people out of Egypt but it's gonna take a long time to get Egypt out of the people and God is training them so that when he does put them in to the hot most highly

traffic area of the entire ancient world as Joel mentioned like everybody's going through there it's a water bridge connecting the Red Sea to the Med Sea it's a land bridge connecting

“Egypt to everywhere else in the world you know that's in that part of the eastern Mediterranean”

world God's gonna put them in the most highly traffic area because he's once as the nations are

coming through to see how you run your business how you conduct your how you treat one another what do you do with the poor and medium among you yeah that's going to point people to go these people are different you're different why why why do you do it that way do you feel like this prayer is a daily Exodus like we all think oh well now I wouldn't have done that that way I wouldn't have been Peter in tonight Christ I wouldn't but it's almost like when you read

before you read the prayer you're in the desert and you're training yourself to come out of the desert and you just put yourself back into slavery because of what you did that day right so you're sort of setting yourself you're asking how to set you free what's your your it's your recalibrating yeah there's some real power in liturgy and there's a reason why the orthodox church is the largest growing church right now yeah you know as we'd go into two thousand twenty six

to rhythm I mean there's just there's something to it and and I think throughout this process for me I kind of relearn that and learn to re-appreciate it again that there is something about muscle memory and just repetition it's kind of where Brad went to the top right that we found these ancient manuscripts from maybe the very end of the first second century and it's like new the three times of day right like so do this which is I mean I think we sort of man I don't know how we we separate

ourselves in some ways in a weird way or this is like this is the prayer that Jesus

“the incarnate creator of the universe tells us how you should pray and we kind of just”

sort of like that's cool right and I still gonna be like hey god I need this you know we kind of do our own yeah we in it lazy human thing which is a little bit about anyone why do I think we're

always we're always think we've we've gotten that we've gotten the degree we've graduated and it's

like you know schools just starting yeah I think that's the prayer to me it's like schools just starting right yesterday you got your degree but today you're starting all over again your freshman well you've even even go back to to axe chapter one Jesus has died he's been resurrected and he's back with his disciples and it says for 40 days he's with them and he's teaching them about the kingdom of heaven the kingdom of God it's like okay boy summer school like I was with you for three

years and you still didn't understand what this was all about so summer school you know and I think this is a big thing that you know Joel and I just had the we just kept talking about was the Lord's prayer is probably the most powerful thing Jesus ever gave us that's the most underutilized of anything he ever gave because we don't recognize the power that's behind it and this is one of the things that you know for me seven years ago when I was on this journey

is that I just was like I am not gonna go another day of my life not saying this prayer and that was really the goal and we set this out to do the film the television series to do the book is that we wanted people to engage it and be so compelled to go I can't afford to not go another day of my life not saying this prayer because it's the very it's the it's the North Star it's the anchor it's the blueprint it's the thing that recalibrate you to what you're supposed to do and even the idea

of daily bread so often if you just kind of like write down irrespective of saying the rest of the prayer whatever what you're normally asking for you're supposed to pause it daily bread and go am I asking for something that's actually gonna help me with the mission or could this actually detract me from the mission and have got actually gave this to me I might think God's not being good but God's actually keeping me from the very things that's going to derail the very thing he wants to do in

my life that's good and so it's it's a what do I need for the mission at hand now that I am reminded it's all about kingdom come God's rule and reign advancing here on earth pushing out the chaos now when I'm asking for something I'm asking for the very things that God I need this

I love there's so much space in the prayer too to like dream a little bit too yeah and I think

it's interesting as kids you know like speaking of school we all said the pledge of the lesions you know don't do any more at Christian school we didn't do the Lord's prayer I can't believe we had more reverence for this the pledge of the Christian flag though yeah we did but that's a relic but but but but but we shouldn't have been doing the Lord and both of my school yeah I think it was a Catholic thing so we didn't do it right um which is sad it's definitely not a Catholic thing

“it's a Jesus thing oh yeah but I mean yeah but that's how you Catholic school thing you know I think”

we were at Baptist running our our schools so they were not gonna do anything like that but uh you I mean like it was a board of of those kinds of dudes and uh I just think it's it's sad because you grew up and you missed an opportunity to really think about the Lord's prayer because I think

obviously once Jesus finally goes then they're starting to put it together and I think as adults

we think about oh yeah I remember that is a kid that happened that makes sense now and it's like you plan to seed sometimes it's four years to grow and I think that if they plan to this seed in a lot of our children it would grow one day when they needed it you actually like oh man life is life is hard life is terrible I have this horrible attitude I can't see anything I'm not grateful for anything I don't know what to do and then you can think back to remember when they see

the Lord's prayer with dad and now I'm starting to see that that could change my perspective but we didn't

“grow up with it so we don't well it's funny I think that that is a symptom of so many”

different pieces of our faith and our practice and how we actually walk this out daily I think it's with the Lord's prayers with a lot of liturgy and general and again there's a reason why the orthodox traditions are just growing right now they're exploding and I think that there's this muscle memory we talk about 10,000 hours at now with all the distractions and social media and everything now needs to be 20,000 hours there's something about like repetition repetition

repetitions let's write it on your heart it is literally writing it on your heart and I think you know this project took so long to get done it's just it's interesting timing you know we talk about God's time this is interesting timing that this thing is now releasing it's available now we've got the show coming out next year and people are so hungry for it we had a premiere 1600 people came to the premiere on less than three weeks notice that's that's

crazy there is a there is a yeah loop didn't I was invited there was so there's so much hunger for the audience I wanted to be there by the way if we qualify I wanted to be there yeah there there is so much hunger for this people are interested in so when we talk about teaching it to our kids yeah and maybe we didn't get it well maybe there's a reason why so much of the church is deconstructed so much of the church is lost like we don't understand this

it's at a context well it's because we we haven't been really locking into it so I'm excited to just my own story to be learning and growing and have a hunger I just have such a hunger for this

“and so that's why the project for me was like we have to do this by by any means took a very”

long time yeah to get it into the inzone um you know a lot a lot of challenges along the way yeah do there's any nuance so this daily bread so little bit because I'm I'm reminded of the part that at some point there's a nice complaint so there's a tired of eating this yeah there's this is a cool thing and we we do more in the in the episodics um in the episode on this particular phrase then we do in the film we hit two facets in the film there's actually three facets there's a

past present and future component to daily bread to Jesus' audience the first thing that when Jesus says give us a spare daily bread their minds would have gone back to the 40 years that they're in the wilderness where God provides daily bread manna and God's like I'm going to give you

what's essential just really when you're asking for daily bread what's essential yeah that's really

the question that's being asked but there was also a present reality which was the Romans were ruling the world and Rome started in in in in 123 BC they started something in latin called the annona which was a daily bread doll for the citizens in Rome that they in order to feed the citizens in Rome it would be a good opportunity to see them out bread but here's the reason Italy is a phenomenal country for growing grapes and vines and doing wine terrible for bread for

growing barley grain wheat and so the irony that they like pasta so much but that was a thing too as they were constantly trying to make sure that there was enough bread to feed the citizens in Rome and actually when they when they took Egypt they I mean they hit the lottery I mean Egypt

the other provinces had to give their bread in order to ensure that bread was the daily bread of

“Rome was given and so you had to take for me in order for somebody else to get right so it was a”

reminder of the hardship that you were under with the Romans because for the Jewish people they're on the eastern frontier like they're the backwaters of the Empire and they recognize like things are really really really difficult and so there's a recognition around man we need to band together in order for us to have our daily bread and this is the other thing I love one things that you said too about like you're supposed to like slow down dream like let it sink in when you're praying

even give us a stay our daily bread we're getting back to the plural is that part of this is a moment we talk about this in the film not everybody on that hillside was poor you've got math you on that hillside that day who is a tax collector the dude is doing very good you know he's got more than daily bread he's got a lot of bread exactly but here's the so this is what's so close as a ziky sauce too he does got the humus is is that when you pray give us a stay our daily bread

it's also a moment where you're supposed to pause and to say do I have more than what I need and can I actually be the answer to somebody else's prayer for daily bread that's good yeah because you take too much bread it gets moldy and that would have been a thing that they would remember the maggots are part of the story and it's so so part of it is and then there's a whole

as you know a future again connected to a second Moses this goes back to a tradition then when

the new Moses the Messiah is going to show up he's going to re-institute the giving of daily bread the treasure of of mana and heaven's going to be open this is actually then written down in second beru which is contemporary like a hundred years after the time of Jesus birth about a hundred AD you have this so there there's this whole thing around that when the Messiah comes he's going to get bread which is by the way the whole discussion between Jesus and the religious leaders

and the cappernum synagogue in John chapter six he's flipping tables you know what's interesting about this what as I'm reading this our halfway through this prayer is it it's very obvious to me

“that it's not a toxic relationship and I think a toxic relationship is unbalanced completely it's”

all about this person it's a little bit about me but you have our father your holy you know your kingdoms here you're with us you're hanging out with us you're you're spending time with us it's happened in there it's happened in here and you give us bread you know and then you forgive us our debts which is the next line as we forgive other people we're also involved it's it's not a toxic

and I think every relationship with the gods which we we argue are real ultimately it was toxic

ultimately they had bait and switch situation but this prayer is showing like no we're all in this and I see your your place in this but I'm also like you got to humble yourself and I'm call yeah I'm calling you to this vocational right because part of the day the bread is like oh if you've got too much you've got to give I'm giving or or you can be generous yeah like generosity because this is one of the things that we talk about in the film which is if everybody's

living with this posture of if I have something that you need and I'm willing to give it's not socialism this is just could this is how communities work together everybody has that mentality then everybody's going to have their daily bread well socialism is your force to do it right so you completely lose the plot right you don't have any generosity like Dan have to give this thing or else I'm you know I'm going to lose it taxes and I would say the next line forgive our debts as we

forgive our as we also have forgiven our debtors yeah yeah it isn't actual debts I would say I this feels like something it's like we understand debts but there's some relational debts well it's also sins I mean yeah there's a different word behind that can be translated into English a number

of different ways but yeah it's basically all the ways that we've failed to answer this is stress

balance short yeah fallen short yeah and this is this is a great for friends band name and and youth group right yeah yeah so I mean obviously the whole world can't go debt free that's impossible

“somebody's got it you pay for something well and here's the thing too is if you think about”

God's mobilizing his community to bear his name to live in such a way that his kingdom is advancing through them they're being generous with one another they're they're locked in on the vision they know what they need to do the number one thing that will cripple a relationship is unforgiveness we heard each other yeah it's the human experience and so part of this is because here's a

of how much God has forgiven me Jesus gave this prayer before he went to a cross into an empty tomb right

“so immediately they're going God forgive us as we are forgiving one another it's this realization”

that the impetus is always God is the first mover God is the one who is making this thing happen

we're reminded that before we could do anything God forgives the Jesus came into the world and we're reminded that we have been forgiven so much and now we need to learn to forgive others because it's not hey except my forgiveness right and then if you can get around the giving forgiveness to one another it's forgive us our deaths as we also have forgiven our debtors the implication is you are going to do that it's not an option you're going to be intentionally doing it the challenge now becomes how do you

become good at forgiveness because it is the most painful part of the human existence relationally and what's stuck with me too about them forgiveness is we've had a number of exercises deliverance past

was it said or on the show talking about that and the thing they always come back to is it like

you don't need to be it's not weegee boards it can be that it's not these really overtly evil things it's like oftentimes the foothold people give for the demonic and their lives is unforgiveness

“that's the door in the window which I think is like ultimate it's very convicting because I think”

in some way we probably all harbor some unforgiveness somewhere right and if we're I think it's interesting that's called out here explicitly that we forgive we've been if we have in our deaths so we forgive those that OS whether that be monetarily or we feel like we're oh we've been there's been an injustice right yeah yeah we could be the toxic person totally we can think we

get more than we have to give and it's always as like a balancing a full because I think you can

lose yourself on one one of the I don't need God at all or I'm just that Bible bumping guy at church is just it's like okay bro you know like it's just too much yeah like your you there's no balance here you're not even like I just feel like we can control God or we can we can do it on our own and I think like the sprayer because it feels like it's constantly pulling you back into the center of see where you are in the sprayer see where you are in the universe and then operate accordingly

well we actually spent a lot of time on this forgiveness piece in the film probably the most time was spent on the forgiveness side of it because it's so hard you know it's so painful you know yeah

“that remember a number of years ago I came across um uh Dr Robert N. Wright who is considered the”

the father of forgiveness research so he had done the most work around quite the vocation that it's isn't it though yeah how do you dress for that job it's a dress for the job you want right I'm gonna be the guy I'm gonna be the guy I'm forgiveness yeah but it was fascinating because he said it was the best you said in 100% of cases those who struggled to unforgive had a misunderstanding of what forgiveness was and what it was not you know and so it's it's an important piece and we actually

spent two chapters on that in bringing heaven here to really help people to understand the importance of forgiveness but also how to do it because it's just a really challenging aspect but you're always supposed to begin with the recognition of how much God has forgiven you and allow God to be the one that empowers you to do the very thing that you made think you can't do on your own and we actually have this amazing illustration you're like all of the crap that I've done

guys were given me like the right becomes small pain that seems like yeah and sort of that see way the scales and what do you think about the next line you know obviously and lead us not into temptation I mean does like that's probably confusing for some people it's very confusing off the bat but I would say that the whole prayer is that God has involved in every aspect of our life so clearly he's leading us places he's giving us food he's forgiving us he's calling us into

a relationship and then so he's not just gonna be like all right and then have fun yeah go on your way to mortal yeah good love and we this this is one of those things where again where does it show up in the prayer it's the last thing like this is the last line for yours is the kingdom in the power and the glory forever was actually something that was added later to tie up the prayer like people are open up their bibles they're not gonna see for yours is the kingdom or for thine

is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever the prayer actually ends with lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil and when you just realize where we're at in the prayer it's like if you are successful in the rest of the prayer helps coming after you opposition it's very blurry and this is a thing too is there were two major moments in Jesus' life and ministry where he experiences extreme temptation it's in the desert and it's also in get-semity it's not explicitly

up in the garden of get-semity and what you see here is even you know Pope Francis had the language

clarified because according to James chapter one God does not tempt people people when they're being tempted can't say God's tempting me because God cannot be tempted by evil nor does he tempt

“anyone that's what James writes in James chapter one and so the language of temptation can also be”

translated as to a time of testing and the idea is is that you're gonna be in moments where God does not tempt Satan tempts but God will will test or allow it or allow it it's Joe and the idea is is that when these moments come when hell's throwing its best at you like you need to be aware that you do not live in a neutral existence this earth is not neutral right because of Genesis 3 this is not neutral like the forces of good and the forces of evil shallone versus chaos it's all duking

it out hearing here and now and we if we're gonna be part of the kingdom of light we are a threat to the kingdom of darkness then you're gonna experience opposition and it's a reminder every day to wake up to the war that we are in for our soul for our mind for our ideas for our attention yeah because that's everything Satan will want to use to derail you from being effective and basser is of God who is working to see God's kingdom advanced on earth as it is in heaven so throw your phone away

right whoa I mean the whole point doesn't give any fear doesn't it's not a prayer fear it's like well then there's this devil out in the bush is he's gonna get you see better watch out it's like there's this feeling of even the dark I'm on control over so even though you're going through things and I think as fathers our our job is to introduce a little bit of fear and risk for our boys our sons it's like mothers will be like no you can't do anything that's ever

gonna hurt you but the dad's like he's got to learn he's got to go through put him in the creek let him walk something you know and but I'm there so I'm gonna make sure but if if dad doesn't

ever introduce any element of danger kids never learn and then they become weak the languages this

things happen don't let it don't let us die by these things don't let it over take us but

“it's still very much I'm in control that's why we're not unequipped yeah like that's part of”

even when Paul gets to the end you guys just have a conversation with with Tom right on on Ephesians the last part of Ephesians is the armor of God why is Paul taking spiritual warfare and connecting it to a Roman soldier and then connecting all of these realities to these and and at the heart of all of that even you can see this with Jesus hmm is that when he is in the desert and all three the temptations that Satan throws at him his responses he quotes scripture yeah if the son of God

is quoting scripture verbally as a way of defeating the temptation that is underway how much more should we be unleashing the word of God in that way as a way of being able to know like we have weapons and not to you know glorify war in any way should we it's just we're in the midst of a spiritual battle and we are not ill-equipped like Jesus came to show us how to engage this world in his terms and it makes sense to me like that there it seems there's such a war to

give us out of our bibles to right I mean it's like every I even like just personally every time that you you set aside it's like but this is this fire needs to be put out and this is happening or this is buzzing on your phone and when you say that I'm reminded that like if crisis as you say is quote in scripture is a response to temptation then we we better know what's in our bibles right because that's the best weapon we have and yet it does feel like I mean there's a

war on a million things there's a war on families and the nuclear family and our kids but

there's absolutely a war on keeping us out of our bibles and out of out of out of out of that weapon is you whether we we've been given I really thought about like that's it's so interesting you guys come across John Markcomer's book live no lies I know John Markcomer ever had a couple of his books guys got us a name and yeah live no lies is really good and he's got a he's got a section there

“retox about a vagorous which was I think he's a four century monk but he wrote a book and it's”

called the the handbook for combating demons and what it was he went through his entire life and he said where am I susceptible to temptation he wrote on every time like every everything that would be constitute and then he found a passage of scripture in its proper context and that he would write alongside of that so when he was going through that temptation these were the words he would speak aloud and he said this was the number one way that I was able to stay on the straight narrow

or to not just succumb to temptation is because I had already figured out what my proclivities were where I'm tempted to fall and found something in the word of God that could

we put it on right you said basically the the only offensive weapon that Paul talks about is a sword

exactly and so everything else is defensive right it's a it's a helmet and a shield and he's at our offensive and to that point is the word of God he broke down to that just doesn't necessarily just mean the Bible there's this there's an aspect to the spoken word like we're receiving a word a hundred percent so you're talking about sort of what the what the language would have been there but

“yeah all right just Jesus you know obviously I think I'm an entier I said that yesterday you know”

like he takes Jesus with you everywhere you go you're nothing's going to be able to touch anyway but I don't think we think about it in those terms it's kind of like I've overcome the darkness so it's there it's a part of the story yeah but it's not the end of the story and I think we can we can often get stuck in a fear brain and then we just over and we're overcome with fear and doubt and we get depressed we get anxious but I think this starts with all the good

yep and it gets to like and there's this other thing don't worry is deliver us does that also access language are we talking about yeah yeah yeah it delivers from evil too is just you know part of it is is just because you pray the prayer obviously doesn't mean that bad things are going to happen right but we also say this prayer on the other side of an empty tomb right and it's a reminder daily death and the devil and sin they have been defeated and we long for the

day when Jesus comes back to make all things right and everything that Jesus did 2000 years ago on across an empty tomb is going to be brought to the fullness of fruition in the meantime we are reminded like death the devil say that's all like their time is ticking right and regardless of what happens in our lives God's will and God's way prevails in the end we know who wins

and it's just a good reminder that even when things are really difficult that it's not always

going to be this way so finish this out here yeah for yours as the kingdom said was added later yeah so actually in the dedicate when I mentioned earlier that discipleship training manual that actually has two of the three parts of of this post script in the prayer so already at the end of the first century we see it happening and it says for yours is the power and the glory forever the kingdom piece and all of that we first see in biblical manuscripts in the fourth

fifth century but already with the dedicate it's we've got part of it and what it is is that when Jesus actually said deliver us from evil what's the very next thing for if you forgive others when they send against you then you're Heavenly Father will forgive you but if you don't forgive others they're sins you're Heavenly Father won't forgive your sins like he's just keeps going with the sermon on the map right and so what the early church just did and by the way there's

biblical precedent for this they're using language from other prayers like Solomon used in the in

the temple dedication ceremony all that is they basically just said we're gonna just put a nice way of

tying it up in order to be able to use it in a liturgical setting so it's a great just it's just summary of what's the whole thing about yours is the kingdom it's not mine it's your kingdom your power it's ultimately for your glory amen now let's get to work that's awesome man

“I mean it's gonna change how I think about this prayer I think for forever and also I wanted to”

well I think it's just like the characters are all in there it's a story of relationships you know it's our father he's coming down here we're eating together, community together and there's also this other character that you will want so there's all these it's a lot that's in there you know there's a lot of relationships and communication between the two so I think oftentimes you know a lot of these things are debated just the relational aspect of our faith is highly contested and

argued about especially the middle ages of what that all means but I think if you read this prayer from like a blurry lens where we're like there's there's a lot of weird characters in all these stories it helps you understand the relationship it's all about a relationship it's all about coming to the table with with something but not taking over the table being part of the table sitting down eating community having a responsibility but it's not it's not your kingdom it's not your table right

so have some respect but also invite somebody bring someone with you we're all welcome and what a what a cool thing and a small prayer then well I just think it also was such an important

“work like I mean and that's what's gonna ask next when you guys is like it's something that seems”

so simple but also so profound right and and I think that resonates like so you said what's been seven years making the film is that right yeah I mean this is like we I don't know how long we've been talking but this thing is loaded and that's what I mean it's just there's it is there is so much there can we talk I mean so yeah can we talk a little bit about like some of the

abundantly clear as this has been from conception to completion has been over six years now and we went I mean it was a lot of opposition that we experienced we're here about some of that some of our creatures I want to you don't want to hear about it because yeah I think when you try we're talking about this when you when you try to join God and something you and you pray you invite him into your work and then he answers and starts connecting dots even

even how the project got started on the same day two different people who don't know each other who are who have got really close relationships with told me about Brad's idea and they're like

“"you need to meet this guy" yeah I was like we found out we were sitting two rows away from each other”

for two years at church of the city I don't know where Joel sits where and I we had never met and it took

it took a senior producer to be a scientist you know what does that mean not where it's good never I guess that's in the southwest flight that's how I treat it I was trying to find myself less is changing and they are a new delton how the project came to be the process of development we realized just had a structure this thing again started as a television show we worked on that for years made a pilot mark brinette as a legendary producer oh yeah we just said we just said Chad Hayes

and this the early spring it was like about Mark and Richard Sharkton making the voice and all that he sees the pilot he's like I love this this is I mean he was super kind to us he's like this is the greatest thing I've ever seen you need to do a movie first to let people get their toe in the water like take take these seven episodes in just there's 30 minute episodes you put three and a half

“hours of going through here which is all just for people who don't are familiar you guys are going”

onsite to the locations right yeah this documentary is really it's a bizarre genre it's kind of a new genre like you just heard it's like a third teaching in theology and in in biblical context it's a third just experiential cinematic travel dock like go to the places so we're all over his real Egypt we're in Greece we go we go to UK we go to UK for anti-right for a little bit of Jordan you know Jordan a bunch of places here in the state and and that's something you know I didn't realize this

but 99.9% of people of believers will never go to the holy land think about that like

I'm so you're you're you're describing sounds a little bit like blurry it's like a third teaching it's a third we go wild places like around Israel and in April with a bunch of folks and yeah I don't know if the last third was but we'll get there this is like a third weird you know this is a cinematic pilgrimage you know we we believe these words we we live our lives around the the collection of 66 books but we don't actually even a lot of most people don't know what it

looks like they don't understand it they can't see it you know geographically and that really matters out that was one of the biggest discoveries for me in this process is like the dirt matters the land matters there's so much more it's it's almost like just reading this stuff is like two

“dimensional well yeah I think about like there it's very simple examples like reading about”

Gettysburg and then going standing there like there's something local here it's like so different you can feel the land and feel that the things that happen there and like in that case the severity

or the heaviness of what happened I've never been to the holy land that'll be shortly here but

what happens you guys have any crazy spiritual warfare miracles what is there any wild things that happen and trying to make this film imagine for six years especially as we the Lord's prayer the resistance to a project like this has to be pretty extreme so the cameras get better from the first year you're making it you know you were funny thing is I was actually we were sitting at the premiere and I I said to my wife I leaned over to my wife and I was like

I'm four and a half years different in this film depending on what scene we're in yeah you started with that camera right there we did it's a little great yeah no we we we did we we had there there there were a number there there there were a number of stories you know and just being able to pitch this idea and to get people to to kind of understand what we were doing and to be able to to raise a necessary funds to be able to do this is Joel mentioned we we got to

do a pilot and the pilot was was a pretty wild experience in Israel and Egypt we were dealing with COVID so that was the first issue that we had is the idea got developed in COVID you know and that was when Joel and I met was August of 2020 and then we were you know having to try to get into the country and we could get into Egypt we couldn't get into Israel but we needed to do the trip you know with both countries and then we actually had to film the whole pilot episode in reverse

because we were in you know we had to go to Israel first and then we went to Egypt and it was just it was its own kind of wild story but then when we went back to film the rest of the episodes

together and very well very first night they all arrived we were already in country we're working on another project first night they all arrived I ran decides to send hundreds of drones in ballistic

“missiles into Israel you guys remember this in April this is that first unprecedented attack that”

it never been done before you were sending videos to me and to our Bible study and I was like

hold yeah yeah but here cause a little bit worried now it was I've never been my wife called me she's like do you know that I ran just sent hundreds of drones your way and I've lived in Israel I've been there so many times and all this kind of stuff like I didn't even I just come was kind of wrote it off like I've been here in the midst of challenging times before but the news was they're overwhelming the iron dome this is this is the plan it worked at night but we got we have video from

the top of the top of the hotel then went into the bunker but from the very beginning I mean that's the definition of opposition in you know many folks on our crew were like we have to leave and we're sitting there trying to discern that like yeah of course we don't want to be in any

“dangerous circumstances you know they're for work we're going to have to come back”

and um one of the ways that got answered that it was like the airlines all shut down like the airspace is deadly yeah but you know we we we we prayed through that and what it ended up being was just the the definition of a blessing in disguise because do you know all these holy sites that are normally just tourist yeah just covered in people like if you if you go into some of these sites all you see is the back people's heads and we're there no one's in there like empty holy

seplicar empty wow I mean unbelievable so we have we have footage in this that never really has been

filmed before because you've never seen those places without lines of of people yeah guardrails traffic management and all this stuff also the priests specifically holy seplicar you know you guys know about this place five churches have have domain over it to film and there you have to get permission from five different churches it rarely ever happens the only time it's ever been shot in that I know before in cinema has been for Morgan Freeman's story of God which we worked on

ironically this is kind of a different this is a different version but they've never filmed in the inner tomb shrine did that you know it's cool there that actually has the there's a stone from the tomb of Jesus and it is you know allegedly the place and that's a whole other you know conversation about are these places the places but this is the holy a site and there's never been a film camera in there before the Greek Orthodox priest was like come on in you know like unbelievable

that that that never happens and that's like the guy who has to basically defend that place he's

like I'm not letting anybody in here he's getting people out he doesn't let you bring your phones in all that stuff so we got to film that and it's in the film and I don't know that that footage exists anywhere else so that's a good get Joel I mean it was it was cool to see that you know time in circumstance yeah you know you got the footage and we talk about all the time where was the camera when that happened yeah you didn't film it yeah I was too scared to film it

“but you got you got the moment but we we did I mean I think that the moment that Joel talked”

about to that was just really significant was I mean this has never been done in human history no country had sent hundreds of drones to wreak havoc in another country and this was you know post october 7th so the country was already thin because of what was going on in java and um and then when we showed up and it wasn't that you know i ran released you know hundreds of of drones because we showed up in country it was just the timing of it was like everybody's you know

especially back home everyone wants to come home come home come home come home we're sitting in the lobby in Jerusalem the next morning after we've been in a bunker and we're talking through like and nobody knows like is this gonna be the beginning of a much bigger escalation or are other nations gonna jump in yeah nuclear yeah all of those questions were happening and we just literally just got together and we were just praying through and we just sensed God saying I didn't

fly you halfway around the world fly you back after two days go do what I've asked you to do and as a result of that like we go into you know the Churchill Holy Sepulcher we go to get semity I mean I have been I've lived in Israel studied there I've been leading steady hiking trips since 2010 I've been there a lot and under all circumstances and we're filming things I've never even been able to set foot into before not just get a camera and I've never even put my

places and all of a sudden it was almost kind of like these are not the drones you're looking for like those are open I mean and it's not that just because the country is empty or the site is empty it's

that they've never allowed cameras in there so it's a whole another level permission we didn't

even have a permit so get in for some of these flavors yeah you know yeah doors would doors would just open literally and I like to get in the good way and I like the pulter guys but I mean there was countless stories of of opposition we had a guy high up in the in the country of Jordan who was a part of their commission had a lot of heated arguments about access to things and after being granted then we'd show up and then it would be denied yeah and then it was just like

I mean we've got a whole team there it's a whole it's a whole thing yeah so it's kind of almost like shutting us down in the moment yeah there was all sorts of stuff personally that happened to all sorts of different people on the crew probably their stories to share and you know or not

but I mean just stuff that was just constant this is wrong this is wrong code right here and yet

everyday we would go out and somehow somehow we'd find ourselves filming in locations that hadn't

“been filmed before or we could we could get inside and it was just like that I think that over there”

you know it is it is it is so important to them the physical places the stories how the stories are represented the way that the different churches have different interpretations or different domain over these things it is it's like life or death over there yeah and here it's like our our version of this you know religion and practice of of our faith is just a little it's a lot different well there's a lot of reasons to control the inflow of information in

it out whether it's protecting your you know your history or tourism or all those things and we were in tradition we were in Machu Picchu and got shut down just us small group of people so and they had to call in like favor to get us out of there but I mean we didn't we weren't filming anything yeah we were just talking about stuff hey maybe they didn't build this no you can't just can't talk about that and then the locals are like shut us shut us down so

when you bring cameras in it's like then you're creating a narrative they don't want that narrative

“out there so yeah you would have that's what they want they want to know what you're filming yeah”

especially when you're Brad at one point's like dude I can't change the Bible he was like say it like this they're like you change it I can't I can't change but we we we had a moment we had a moment in Jordan like we were going to uh Wadi Ram which is just this it's like an other world experience in Wadi Ram it's where Martian was filmed Lawrence of Arabia Dune Star Wars that's where it's being filmed you know over there and so we actually had this shot and in the film

there's a there's a moment later in the film where I'm silhouette it against the sun and we were it was just it was it was it was all for you know b-roll this was not like critical to the storyline this is our last day of filming in Israel and Jordan before we were going to come back and do uh Egypt and um and a couple of other countries and um so anyhow we literally go out and we're driving for two hours to find this shot and we're looking at where's the sun dropping we wanted to have

this moment where I'm coming up the backside of the Dune and I'm between mountains the sun is setting and I'm just silhouette it against it and just to talk about the journey of just some of

“the stuff we're talking about I'm going to get your lightsaber out and that's what it does it does”

like for a personal shot but here's the thing is we finally find the place they get set up for

the shot it's taken a couple hours to find it and because the shot is to have the Dune be virgin like so there's no footsteps like I'm coming around the backside and they keep having me pop my head up to go where's the sun dropping where are you going to be and so I'm elevated they're all often a distance shooting a long range shot and in the distance I see like this two like the the dust just start coming up out of the desert well it's two trucks and they're like

hauling through the desert like it's like they're going 75 miles an hour they're fish tailing I'm like what are these guys doing drag racing in the desert well what we don't know at that moment is I'm up and I'm seeing them coming and they're down filming is that these are two drunk veterans who think that we're trespassing that we don't have access to film in their part of what he wrong and they come tearing at the group and I am watching this and they slam on their

brakes coming in hot like a worm and almost takes out our entire team wow they get out they're screaming our security is screaming it's unbelievable chaos and very calmly either cool because I've got on the walk in my in my back buddy goes and we are filming this in five

10 minutes of just I mean they're about to come to blows like they almost took out our entire

team like they're drunk I mean it was it was just one of those extremely chaotic scenes so when you see the shot there's more than just the shot there's the whole thing like the SEC just means more right this is awesome thank you yeah this has been great how work working they wins a film yeah time no there's three things here so the book where where's the book

working I find the film is out film is out and then it goes to Netflix yeah so it's on film is

“available on Angel right now okay and I think we have a code for you guys everyone can watch it”

for free because it was a subscription service yeah so we have that the show will be coming out early next year and so that will be seven episodes of this thing and then the book is available now as well it's all it it's all at the lordspair.com yeah we have the lordspair.com as Joel mentioned

angels been very generous and providing a code for people to watch it so literally people can just

put in angel.com/blurry oh and they can watch the film really that they did that yeah look

“that should blur yeah angel.com/blurry and you you can watch it on angel who yeah look at your”

boys it just means more you know yeah thanks dude we also yeah it's been a treat though especially because we're friends and yeah and frankly I'm having you guys in the show has been really awesome yeah and I mean love it's a new teach at church and then of course like everything you do to all of you know. And now I will make a quick correction I'm not a teaching pastor on staff. Okay I didn't know how to put that. No it's great it's great I just I just know that.

“Hey that's correct. I don't even see you on stage as a pastor so then in your teaching.”

No I know I know. Okay then like in my non-efficient stand. My world is now us working together to do this kind of stuff. I love every time I get a chance to guess teach at church of the city and we love our community. Bible in the bread grave. That's right. It gets on stage every once in a while it's not officially pastoral or revered at this moment. You kept in it I still in more days. So I definitely do have a part of that. I had to hold back some dad jokes and

that when you kept saying my king to my king to my king to my king thinking I didn't vote for you. Some aquatic ceremony. You guys thank you so much. Yeah some talk. Yeah tosses a king to some watery talk through a sword at you. Co-makers. Thanks guys. Thanks guys. [Music] [Music]

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