Chapter 6 | Misfiled

Smigle and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden Creek to David Letterman

“help make you funnier this week, my guest. SNL's Mikey Day and Head Writer, Streader”

Side L helped an Occupella band with their "Between Songs Banner." Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Wasn't a humor me with Robert Smigle and Friends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. My mother-in-law spent years sabotaging our relationship until karma made her paper it. Alright, so if you tell me about how we started this story. She moved in for two weeks, lasted five days, left a mess, and then pressed her ear against their bedroom door and burst in screaming.

When kicked out to a hotel, she called her son-in-law's workplace, pretending his partner had been rushed to the hospital by ambulance. Fake the medical emergency? And spoiler that was just the beginning to find out how it ends, listen to the okay story-time podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the look back at it podcast. The next and semi-nine deaths big moments for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sanjay, and I'm Alex E. Grish. Each episode we pick a year, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, federal comedians and favorite authors, like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. If it was a wild year, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for Black people.

Listen to look back at it on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last time, on earwitness. Finally, that was a Mark and then door. Just can't have on these data and then say we should say it.

We got a full of data now. We got all the evidence we need.

“This Alison, would you tell us about the information that you have for us?”

Yes, my daughter, to use her three way to call for his homeboy, and he named his fellow engineers to borrow his Johnson. We had a week, guys. It's based on the testimony of one another. The only evidence supposedly they had against

was this year's witness who had never heard him speak before,

who had no idea who he was. This case is all about alternative worlds that are in conflict with each other, and in conflict with truth, and in conflict with what our justice system stands for. We forget sometimes that's a third person on that phone. We told them that this credit's what this lady says she heard.

You know what I mean? And now, how close, how much closer can you get the net? Why did the jury believe this woman who eavesdrop on the call over you, who actually had on the call? I don't understand, I'd never understood it. You know, the victim's family deserves to know what happened to their love,

but they get no, no justice, no peace out of a wrongful conviction. And this is simply a case that is anybody to do.

“Do you remember the first time you met him?”

I do. Ty Alper was just starting out his legal career at the Southern Center for Human Rights, when he met to Forest Johnson. To Forest was one of the first people on death row that Ty had been assigned to represent. In January of 2003, Ty gets into one of the old Volvos that the Southern Center had in their parking lot in Atlanta and drives four hours south to Holman Prison in Atmore, Alabama.

The first time I met him was down at Holman. I was by myself and was going to go down and make sure that he was okay with us representing him and sort of tell him

where his case was. Ty is 29 years old and here's what he knows. To Forest Johnson is just

eight months older than he is and he's been on death row for over four years for a crime he says he did not commit. When Ty finally gets inside the prison, he's taken to a room called the Visiting Yard. But it isn't a yard at all. It looks like a middle school cafeteria surrounded by plexiglass. Outside the plexiglass, correctional officers and men and prison uniforms, white slacks,

Inside there's no AC and the sad attempt of cooling the room is left to metal fans

that hang in the corners. To Forest sits at a table in a plastic chair across from Ty. Ty tries to talk quietly so he doesn't disturb other lawyers working with their clients on the yard. But loud enough to be heard over the roar of the fans.

“Then I remember saying to him, you know Mr. Johnson, I want you to know where the very early stages”

of your appeals. There's many rounds of appeals to go. We're going to file a petition in the U.S.

Supreme Court. Then we're going to go back into state court. If we lose there, we're going to go back into federal court and all of this could take many years and he just started crying. And I assumed that he was upset because I knew that he had claimed that he was claiming he was innocent. And I assumed that he was upset that this was going to take so long. And I asked him what

“was wrong. And he said that he was so happy because he had just assumed that they could come any”

minute and take him to be executed. And it was just the thing that struck me the most because not only

had he been screwed over in pretty much every possible way you can be, but nobody was telling him anything about what was going on in his case. But to forest days without a lawyer to fight for him are over, it's now up to tie and the team of lawyers at the Southern Center to do what no one has done before. Thoroughly investigate to forest's conviction. A conviction that hinged on the word and credibility of a single witness, Violet Ellison.

Do you hear my madness? Laver has my fears. Sunals devs are endless in this valley. What tears? I want to see your revelation. I want to know who you are. I'm reaching out in this apparition to the world who's holding the stars to the world who's holding the stars. I'm Beth Schelburn. This is Your Witness. Chapter 6. Miss Vild. After Ty leaves home in prison, he and the rest of to forest knew legal team go through the case.

They need to understand how their new client ended up on death row. They hear about to forest alibi that he was at T's place when deputy Hardy was shot. They learn about Yolanda Chambers changing stories. They read how the state presented conflicting theories at different trials. Now it's clear to the legal team. To forest Johnson did not kill deputy Hardy. The state's case completely revolved around Violet Ellison's testimony.

So we knew that that was a potentially fruitful area to investigate because she was the state's whole case. They need to figure out whether they can challenge Violet Ellison's testimony. If they can show that it wasn't reliable, they can argue that to forest deserves a new trial.

“So they need to know why did Violet Ellison come forward in the first place?”

Prosecutor Jeff Wallace told two juries that Violet was a credible witness. Someone who overheard to forest Johnson admit to the crime and she came forward because it was the right thing to do.

We knew the reward was offered because it was all over the papers, but we didn't know who got it or if Violet Ellison got it. The reward was not a secret. It was mentioned in press releases and reported on TV news.

So the next step was okay. Well, were there questions about her credibility that the jury never

“heard and an obvious one was what was she paid for her testimony?”

If Violet Ellison knew about the reward money before trial or even if she had qualified for the reward, the jury should have been told this when they heard her testimony. The legal issues here get complicated fast, but it's important to understand that the prosecution must turn over anything that would be helpful to the defense. It can be a lead on another suspect or some forensic report that casts doubt on a piece of evidence.

Or information that calls the credibility of a state's witness into question. This is called Brady information after a famous US Supreme Court case called Brady V. Maryland. And if a court finds out later that prosecutors failed to turn over Brady information, that's a constitutional violation and the court will order a new trial. So if prosecutors knew that Violet Ellison came forward looking for the reward,

they should have told to force trial lawyers about it. And then they could have brought it up at trial. They could have told the jury, when you go back and deliberate about Violet Ellison's testimony, remember, there's a reward being offered and she wants that reward.

“Are you sure money isn't part of the equation here?”

But the jury never heard anything about the reward.

She was very credible. Monique Hicks was on the jury into Forest's second trial, and she voted to convict to Forest based on Violet Ellison's testimony. She just seemed very truthful like she had nothing to gain by coming forward. She had heard this information and she felt like I have to share this. She was a very credible witness compared to some of the others that took the same light.

We believed her. Obviously we believed her because we convict at home, and it was on her testimony. Over turning a conviction is damn near impossible. Our system prioritizes finality in part because the jury's verdict is considered a community statement and given great weight. So for to Forest to get a new trial, his lawyers needed to prove two things that Violet Ellison came forward with her story in the hopes of getting the reward,

and that police and prosecutors were aware of this true motivation. There's one big problem. If Violet Ellison had been paid, documentation of the payment should have been into Forest's case file, but there wasn't anything there. Still, tie and the other attorneys had a hunch that Violet Ellison got the money. The legal team tried calling everywhere they could. The Sheriff's Office, the Governor's

Office, the Records Division. What should have been just a simple phone call turned into a

multi-week endeavor. Finally, someone at the Governor's Office said they might have something

“and would send over a fax. I do remember us all hovering around the fax machine”

waiting to see what it was because it was the first time that anyone had acknowledged that there might be something that was helpful. The fax machine spits out a piece of paper signed by Judge Alfred Behackle, the man who presided over to Forest's trials and sentenced him to death. The paper authorized Violet Ellison to receive $5,000 in reward money in exchange for her testimony that led to the conviction of to Forest Johnson. That was when we knew, okay,

she did know about this reward. She was motivated by the reward when she testified and the judge knew about it in an order that was not included in the court file. For To Forest's legal team, this was a huge first step. The language in the court order said

this authorization document was signed by the judge. It's an official court document.

It should have been into Forest's court file, right there, where everyone could see it. But it wasn't. Instead, To Forest's legal team had to go on a bureaucratic goose chase to find it.

“Was someone trying to hide something? What other documents were missing from the public file?”

So a young investigator working with To Forest's legal team named Jason Marks went right to the source. He walked up to Violet Ellison's house, holding Judge Bayhackle's court order that authorized her payment in one hand and knocked on her front door with the other. When I showed up at her house, she said something about the phone calls and I said, oh, I'm not here to talk to you about the phone calls. I'm here to talk about the reward that you got. And that's when she said, I didn't get a reward.

I was like, oh, well, that's funny. I was like, we have some paper for here that says you got a reward.

And so basically, yeah, so basically, confronted her with the document. She said, oh, yeah, I did get a reward.

“Got $5,000. After initially denying it, Violet Ellison told Jason the state paid her $5,000”

for testifying against To Forest Johnson. We knew when we got the judge's order that he had authorized the payment. And then she told us that she got paid. So we knew it all. When you take a step back, he's on death row because the jury believed a woman who they didn't know as being paid for her testimony. And that should cause real concerns and questions about the validity of the conviction. To Forest's legal team files a Brady claim against the state that argues the jury and to Forest

trial should have heard about the reward. Violet Ellison knew about the reward when she came forward and that the state suppressed the information on purpose. The state denies everything. They deny any Brady violation and they deny all of the allegations into Forest's petition, including that Violet Ellison was motivated by the reward and that she was paid $5,000. But to Forest's legal team has evidence to the contrary, the court ordered that was

facts to them and Violet Ellison herself. After the state submits a written denial of all of the charges brought by to Forest's legal team, the case heads to court. But Alabama courts won't hear the case. They say the reward doesn't qualify as Brady. So the appeal takes years to make its way

through the courts. When to Forest and Ty first met, to Forest's five kids were all under the age of 10.

And as the Brady claim crawls through the legal system, 17 years go by. To Forest's oldest daughter has graduated college and his four other kids are having kids of their own. Finally, to Forest's legal team gets the case in front of the United States Supreme Court. The justices tell the Alabama courts that they're wrong for not reviewing to Forest Brady claim. The state of Alabama must hear the evidence about the reward. Ahead of the hearing, Judge Teresa Polium gives the state

“very clear orders. You have to turn over everything. Everything you have that concerns a reward”

payment. You have to turn it over to Mr. Johnson's lawyers. So the state gives to Forest's legal team what they say are all of the documents about to Forest's case. An attorney representing the state tells Judge Polium the files contained nothing about anyone applying for a reward or being granted a reward. I think it was eight or nine bankers boxes of documents and we went through every single page looking for any mention of a reward payment about else and there was nothing in there.

But then, to Forest's legal team gets a tip from an insider, the woman who served as office manager at the Jefferson County District Attorney's Office when to Forest was on trial. So she told us that if we were only looking in the case file, we weren't looking everywhere

separate from the case files that would include paperwork and documentation of witnesses who had

“sought reward and are been paid rewards. Reward information in the DA's office,”

according to this source, was kept in a separate confidential file away from prosecutors involved in trials like Jeff Wallace. This meant he couldn't turn it over to to Forest lawyers because he didn't know about it. To to Forest's attorneys, this meant the information about the reward was kept from them intentionally suppressed. The judge orders the DA's office to turn over this separate confidential file. We got an email that said we found these documents they had been

misfiled and here they are. Here they are. After 17 years, the state finally turned over

every document to Forest Lawyers had asked for. They hidden treasure trove. An application for the reward that signed by Violet Ellison, a copy of the actual check for $5,000 made out to Violet Ellison. An email exchange between District Attorney David Barber and the governor's office about how to pay the reward, and a letter from DA Barber asking the governor to pay Violet Ellison the money, saying that she came forward pursuant to the offer of a reward.

If this hidden information about the reward kept away from to Forest Lawyers for 17 years,

“doesn't count as prosecutorial misconduct as a Brady Violation? What does?”

But according to the state, all of these documents were simply misfiled. When I hear misfiled, I imagine someone accidentally putting a document into the wrong folder or maybe a paper falling behind a cabinet. But that's not what happened. It sounds like they had it organized in a file they kept explicitly for rewards. A file that no one seemed to know about, except the office manager, and the DA himself, David Barber, who headed the prosecutor's office.

How is this acceptable? Yes, I was calling for David Barber. Mr. Barber, my name is Beth Shelburn. I called David Barber, who's now retired after serving as Jefferson County's top prosecutor for 24 years. He was DA when to Forest was tried for capital murder, and personally involved in the reward issue. He wrote the letter asking the governor to pay Violet Ellison.

The defense team for Mr. Johnson didn't have any records about the reward until 2019. The Attorney General's Office produced the records and said they had been misfiled.

“Okay. Does that sound strange to you or do you have any idea how that could have happened?”

The AG's office, if they say they got misfiled, and I guess they got misfiled. He was an error. I don't know. I don't second guess people. I mean, things happen. You have people working in agencies, DA's offices, AG's offices, governors' office, things get misfiled, and it happens. It happens. Actually, it did happen. At least one other time on Barber's watch. In 2004, a man named Montez Bradley was sentenced to death for murder based on the

testimony of one witness, just like to Forest Johnson. Eventually, Bradley's lawyers discovered

the star witness was paid $10,000 for her testimony. But police and prosecutors never disclosed

the reward payment. Because the reward documents were kept in the same separate file as Violet Ellison's reward payment. The judge in that case also didn't disclose information about the

trial. Hello. Hey, my name is Beth Schelberg. I was wondering if Mr. Alfred Behackel is here?

“My producer, Mara and I went to Judge Alfred Behackel's house, hoping to talk to him about these”

off the record payment authorizations. But he told us that he wasn't interested in commenting on any specific cases or his time as a judge. Montez Bradley was able to prove his innocence and was released from prison in 2015 to forest and his attorneys hope for the same outcome. Another podcast from MSNL, late night comedy guide, not quite on humor. Me and hilarious guests

from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Oden Kirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week.

My guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Sidel helping out a fellow band with their between songs banter. There's no more singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The yard hurts, right? That's the name. The yard has their own path. Since you guys are middle ages, one direction. Listen to humor me with Robert's

Michael and friends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. You'll let me. I need some jokes to make me sing funny. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having troubles

stopping the muscle growth. Listen to superhuman on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

“you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross, double tap little Kim's boobs at the”

VMAs? Oh, what went kind, hey, said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the look back at the podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode we pick a here, unpack what went down and try to make sense of how he survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about cracking the eggs. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because

of crack. I'm down to talk about crack or they, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. I mean at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have eggs on the table right now. So. Are you fishing and

“sensitive? Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really, yeah,”

for me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

[Music] I first heard about to force Johnson's case in 2019 when the Brady hearing was scheduled. I was assigned to cover the hearing for WBRC, the new station where I used to work. This hearing would determine whether Violet Ellison's secret reward payment amounted to prosecutorial misconduct. I didn't know much about to force case back then.

Only that he was on death row for a crime that he said he didn't commit and was convicted on the testimony of an earwitness who was paid off the record. In preparation for the hearing, I met with to forest cousin Antonio Green and other family members at their uncle's house. They all said to forest was optimistic about the hearing. On the day of the hearing, I only took a pen and notebook into Judge Pauliam's courtroom

and I spotted to forest sitting at the defense table with his attorneys.

“This was the first and only time I've ever seen to forest Johnson in person.”

He was wearing an orange and white striped jail jump suit and was in handcuffs and leg irons. At one point he turned and smiled at his family and I heard his mom next to me say softly, "Hey baby." The courtroom was packed and much of the crowd was to forest's family and friends,

but I also saw Jefferson County's newly elected district attorney seated in the first row,

Danny Carr. He's the first black man to be elected top prosecutor in Jefferson County. A month before this hearing, a group of faith leaders who knew about to forest case published an open letter to Carr asking him to push for a new trial, but at this point Carr had not commented

“publicly on the case. The hearing starts at 9 a.m. To forest attorneys present all of the”

documents that took the state 17 years to turn over. They argue that the documents show the

state suppressed evidence that Violet Ellison initially contacted police and pursuit of the

reward money and then the state hid that she was eventually paid $5,000. Just after 10 a.m., the state calls only one witness to testify, Violet Ellison. She's 77 years old and walks to the stand using a cane. She has short white hair and is dressed and a white blazer and black pants. After she sworn in, Violet Ellison says that she knew the victim and followed the details about the murder and investigation by watching the news and reading the newspaper.

But despite all that and despite the fact that information about the reward was all over the news,

she is vehement that she didn't know about the reward. She testifies that the first time she

heard about the reward was after to forest was sentenced to death. In July of 2001, three years after he was convicted. She says that's when someone from the DA's office contacted her and asked her to come in and sign papers for the reward money. At the end of this five-hour hearing, Judge Pulliam says she's not going to make a decision that day. She'll consider all of the evidence and then issue her ruling. To forest Mother Donna sitting next to me bursts into tears.

After the hearing, I was going over my notes and noticed a big discrepancy between the state's story and Violet Ellison's testimony about what triggered the reward three years after to forest was convicted. In opening statements, the state lawyer said that Violet Ellison asked the DA's office about the reward. But on the stand, Violet said it was the other way around that they contacted her. This might seem like a minor detail, but knowing what triggered the

“reward payment is key in determining whether or not this is a Brady violation. Who called who first?”

How did this payment come about? So, I emailed the Attorney General's office for some clarity and they directly contradicted Violet Ellison's testimony again, writing three years after the trial, Ellison requested the cash reward that had been offered by the governor. And since then, Alabama's Attorney General completely reversed the state's narrative, the AG's office now claims that the prosecutor asked for the reward to be paid

unbeknownst to Violet Ellison. But former DA David Barber told me he wouldn't do that, that rewards were triggered by law enforcement or a witness themselves applying for a reward. And prosecutor Jeff Wallace said he had nothing to do with rewards. Everyone I asked gave a different answer, pointing the finger in a different direction.

The state continuously changing its story on this important detail.

“Isn't just sloppy, it's incredibly suspicious.”

It takes nine months for Judge Pulliam to issue her decision. She writes that she found Violet Ellison to be confident, describing her as well-dressed and well-spoken, and that her articulate testimony outweighed the evidence presented by to forced Johnson's attorneys. Pulliam says the documents don't prove that Violet Ellison knew about the money

when she testified, and don't amount to misconduct by the state.

She doesn't address the fact that it took the state 17 years to admit they had paid Violet Ellison. Really what she was doing was validating the credibility of Violet Ellison saying, I didn't know that there was even a reward offered in the case, which is impossible to believe, and then validating her testimony that three years after the trial, not having known that there is even a reward offered in the case. The DA's office out of the blue called her up one day and said,

“"Hey, remember that case you testified in? We have $5,000 of the state's money that we'd”

like to give you for that. Do you want to come down and get it?" and she said, "Sure, and come down and got it." Which is also impossible to believe. To forest legal team appeals the decision, and in April of 2021, I attend oral arguments in front of the state court of criminal appeals. I notice all five judges on the court are white. In fact, everyone in the courtroom is white. The disconnect is striking.

To forest Johnson isn't here. All these white people are discussing the fate of a black man,

“who has locked away on death row, completely absent from this process.”

This dynamic isn't unique to this hearing. Black people make up 27% of Alabama's overall population, but 54% of the state prison population. There are no black, appellate judges, and only three of the 42 elected DAs in Alabama are black. This lack of representation

means it's almost always white people making policy and punishment decisions that impact

a disproportionate poor and black population. To forest hearing in the court of criminal appeals, lasts just 49 minutes. It's another denial. Mikey Day and Headwriters Streeter Sidel, help an Occupel event with their between songs banter. There's no more singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard? You only got in because your parents made a huge donation.

The yard hurts, right? That's the name. The yard is open, you have the same suggestion. We're open. Since you guys are middle ages, one direction. Listen to humor me with Robert's Michael and friends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to superhuman on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

Kims boobs at the VMAs? Oh, when Kyle Hay said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George

Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the look-back at a podcast. I'm SamJet and I'm Alex English. Each episode we pick a here, unpack what went down and try to make sense of how he survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the eighties. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just 'cause of crack. I'm down to the talk about crack or date, but yeah, yeah, yeah, later I'll put just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've

discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have eggs on the table.

“Are you fishing as sensitive? Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.”

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the iHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At the end of the trial, once the verdict was read, and everything was done, the jury was finished with their job. Now remember the judge saying that to forest would be sentenced at another date. Monique Hicks again, who served on the jury into forest's second trial. Monique wanted to talk with me after she saw a new story about Violet Ellison and the reward payment. So I made the

hour long drive to her house to speak to her in person. Monique was 27 years old when she voted for to forest's guilt and a death sentence. As soon as that was over, security quickly ushered the

jury out the back door of the courthouse to the parking deck. She never found out if the judge agreed

that to forest should be put to death or spend life in prison. I never heard anything, didn't say in the news. I have just missed it that night. The internet wasn't a thing. I couldn't look it up,

“Google it. So I honestly never knew ultimately what happened to Mr. Johnson.”

20 years later, Monique gets a book recommendation from a friend. The sun does shine a memoir by Anthony Ray Hinton, a black man from Birmingham, who was sent to death row in 1985, despite a solid alibi and no eyewitnesses tying him to the murder. He was exonerated 30 years later. And so I was reading the book and as I'm reading the book, I'm like, oh wow, this was set in Birmingham in the 80s. I was like, I was on a jury in the 90s in Jefferson County and Birmingham. That's

interesting. By the time I got to the end of the book, I remember I looked at my husband and I said, oh my goodness, I think we convicted an innocent man because I was like, there's no way 10 years later that the injustices and the corruption that were going on in a system had cleaned themselves up. About two weeks later, I'm sitting on my sofa and I opened up my local news app to just read the headlines. To Forest Johnson has been claiming innocence for over 20 years on death row,

something to that effect. And I opened up the article and started reading and I just started sobbing like uncontrollable because I was like, oh my goodness, we did commit to an innocent man and he's been on death row all these years and I didn't know it. It wasn't until 2019, more than two decades after she voted to convict to Forest Johnson,

“that Monique learned that the state's key witness, Violet Ellison, was paid in secret”

for her testimony. You know, they star-witness was paid and the defense didn't know it, the jurors didn't know it. So I was shocked and then I was like, well, how shocked or to Forest and his family when we accused him of being guilty. So I just can't imagine what that was like to them another blow. At the time of the trial, Monique found Violet Ellison to be composed and confident. Do you think that your impression of her would have been different had you

known she was being paid $5,000? I definitely believe we would have, as a jury talked about that,

there would have been conversations about it and I do believe it would have changed out,

“could have changed outcome. I really felt like the jury was used in this big game of injustice.”

We were just like, here's some theories, we're just going to keep throwing them out until we can get a group of people together to believe it and I just feel like we were being used in this game. They needed a conviction. It was a high profile case, you know, it was a sheriff's deputy, somebody needed to pay for it and to me it just seems like we're just going to throw these things

out, gather people together until we get some that believe it and unfortunately I was in the

grave that believed it. Monique is one of three jurors that I've interviewed. All three regret

“voting to convict to Forest Johnson. None of them could quite put their finger on why they were”

convinced of his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, other than believing Violet Ellison. Once they learned she was paid for her testimony, it was like to Forest suddenly became real to them, the weight of their decision was crushing. But besides speaking out about their regret, there's nothing they can do. They can't take back their votes. They have to live with their decision. I felt a lot of grief, shame, guilt for having been a part of this.

I'm pretty even killed person. I'm not a cry or you know, some people cry about anything.

“That's not my go-to. I'm not a big cryer, but anytime this subject comes up, it is like”

grief deep in my soul and I just get very emotional. I felt like I needed to talk to the person at the center of the case, outside of courtrooms and legalese. I wanted to hear from Violet Ellison. She has a small brick house on a busy street in Birmingham. When I go there, the main front door is open, and as I walk closer, I can see Violet Ellison sitting inside, wearing a robe.

She stands up and turns to face me. Hey, are you Ms. Violet Ellison? Ms. Ellison, my name is Beth. I'm a journalist, and I was hoping to talk to you about the deputy party murder that you were a witness in. Eventually, she steps out onto the porch where we continue the conversation. And I feel like I'm just being a ridicute, so I'm telling you to and I do, I don't like it. Well, I just wanted to ask you about the issue of the rewards.

I talked to Violet Ellison for 20 minutes, and she tells me no less than a dozen times that she did not know about the reward when she came forward to talk to police and that she did not know about it when she testified against the forest at two trials. Do you think about the fact that he's on death row though? I mean, I know you said you don't

really to support the death penalty. Yeah, well, I did, and at first, if you know, in trouble,

my spirit, and as time went by, you try to forget the bad things that happen. But it's a little surreal for me to be face-to-face with Violet Ellison. This woman who's the linchpin of the entire case against to forest. As we say goodbye, she delivers the most ironic thank you I've ever received. Telling me, she appreciates me talking to her directly, instead of relying on someone else's characterization of what she said. You know, nobody has

come to me like you to see how I feel about it, and they just report in on what somebody

There is a man on death row because the jurors believed Violet Ellison. Now we know what the

“jury didn't know at trial that she was paid for her testimony and that the state hid this information.”

They told the jury that Violet Ellison was credible and believable, and they still say that. But they weren't truthful about the reward. So why should we believe how they characterized their key witness? I didn't see it. I know that's my criminal bed. That's a true scam on it. In a way she can get a dollar.

Telling, she ain't that time, they're just going to help somebody just to help them.

It got a hammer. It got a hammer. That's next time.

“Ear Witness is a production of lava for good podcasts in association with signal company number one.”

Executive producers are Jason Flam, Jeff Kimpler, Kevin Wardess, and me, Beth Schullburn. The investigative reporting for this series was done by me and Mara McNamara. Producers are Mara McNamara, Hannah Beal, and Jackie Pauli.

Caracorn Haber is our senior producer. Britt Spangler is our sound designer,

additional story editing from Marie Sutton, fact check help from Catherine Newhand, and special thanks to to Forest Johnson's legal defense team. You can follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter at lava for good to see behind the scenes content from our investigation. Visit lavaforgood.com/ear Witness. Bob Oden Kirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week's my guest, SNL's Mikey Day

and Headwriters Streeter Side L helped an Occupella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert's Michael and friends on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My mother-in-law spent years sabotaging our relationship until Carma made her pay for it. All right, so if you tell me about how we started this story,

she moved in for two weeks, lasted 5 days, left mass, and then pressed her ear against their bedroom door and burst in screaming. When kicked out to a hotel, she called her sudden loss workplace, pretending as partner had then rushed to the hospital by ambulance. "Fake the medical emergency!" And spoiler that was just the beginning. To find out how it ends, listen to the okay story-time podcast on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. On the look back at it podcast. For the next 99 days, it was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam Jack, and I'm Alex Englisch. Each episode we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, federal comedians and favorite others, like Mark Lamont Hill, on the 80s.

"They get yours a wild, it ain't a wild, it ain't a wild, it ain't a wild, it ain't a wild, yeah!"

“I don't think there's a more important year for black people.”

Listen to look back at it on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.