Chapter 8 | Bondage to the Law

Smigle and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden Creek to David Letterman

help make you funnier this week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and Headwriter, Streeter Side L helped an Occupella band with their "Between Songs" banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes, those people are starving for banter. Wasn't a humor me with Robert Smigle and Friends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. On the look back at a podcast. The next seminar is Big Mama for Me, 84's Big To Me. I'm Sam Jack and I'm Alex E. Grish. Each episode we pick a year, unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians and favorite authors, like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

If it was a wild, I mean, it was a wild, wild year.

“I don't think there's a more important year for black people.”

Listen to look back at it on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games, and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having troubles stopping the muscle growth. Listen to superhuman on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last time, on earwitness. She was a very credible witness. We believed her. Obviously we believed her because we can victim him, and it was on her testimony.

The only evidence supposedly that he had against the witness who had never heard him speak before.

Who had no idea who he was. That is extremely strongly. I don't say if it's believed. Of course, the question becomes that you believe that evidence. Well, to believe that evidence, she had to believe in his elicine.

And so we're trying to get information on her. Her name's Violet Ellison.

“Do you have an opinion about her or have any information that you could give us about her?”

I know, she's very addicted. She's a very messy lady, very messy. Well, I can tell you one thing about my grandma. She is a true scam artist. That's a true idea to see it.

I know that's my grandma, but that's a true scam artist. And I hate that this man could be innocent. And for $5,000, he's on different $5,000. [MUSIC] Near the intersection of Rosa Parks Avenue and Liberty Street in Montgomery, Alabama,

is a tiny red brick church. Outside St. Peter AME, a large white banner is stretched 25 feet across the church's front lawn. The words, it's not too late to fix this mistake.

“Are written across the banner and black and red letters?”

The mistake is to forest Johnson's conviction. [MUSIC] The banner was created by an organization called Greater Birmingham Ministries. This year, it has traveled to eight different churches across Alabama to help raise awareness about to forest's case, awareness that is growing.

Holy cow, it's just ridiculous. This case is shameful. My name is Lindsay Boney, I'm a lawyer at the law firm Bradley A.Rant Bolt Cummings. When I think about this case, it's mind-blowing to me. My name is Carla Crowder, I'm a lawyer and executive director at Alabama Appleseed Center for Law and Justice.

This case is stunning, and this case is heartbreaking. My name is Nick Gady, I have been an active lawyer in Birmingham since 1964. We can do better and we need to do better. Lots of people have known for a very long time that this man is innocent and he's still on death row. Why does it take 25 years?

Lawyers from all sides of the political spectrum are lending their support,

“along with former prosecutors and judges, as well as Alabama churches and faith leaders,”

like Sister Helen Precion. Please guide with these efforts and people hearing this about too far as his life will be saved. Even death penalty supporter Bill Baxley, Alabama's former attorney general, has joined the fight.

I'm a lawyer. My voice or anything I can do because this is a situation that

shouldn't be allowed to exist another minute. When Baxley reviewed to Forest Case, he was so outraged. He wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post. That said, an innocent man is trapped on Alabama's death row.

“The only thing that I can see is to why this kind of thing happened was the victim was a law enforcement officer.”

To Forest Johnson now has unprecedented support and it's not just from all these people who

believe he's innocent. The current district attorney of Jefferson County, along with the original prosecutor who sent him to death row, both now say to Forest Johnson deserves a new trial. So why is the state of Alabama still trying to kill him? [Music] [Music]

I'm reaching out in this position to the one who's holding the stars to the one who's holding the stars. I'm Beth Schelberg. This is earwitness, chapter eight, bondage to the law. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite on humor me with Robert Smygo and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffeyons, a Bob Oden crew to David Letterman, help make you funnier this week, my guest, SNL's Mike E. Day and head writer, streeter side del,

help an Occupella band with their between songs banter. There's no more singer in the group.

“The worst? Yeah, me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard?”

Uh, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. [Laughter] The yard hurts, right? That's the name. The yard has their own path. Do you believe suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle ages, uh, one erection. [Laughter] Listen to humor me with Robert Smygo and friends on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcast or wherever

you get your podcast. You and me, I did some jokes to make me feel funny. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged, it's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having troubles stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to superhuman on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Star Wars fans, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun,

“thought provoking Star Wars related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics”

from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hey hey, what's wrong? How are you? I'm fine, you're okay. I'm good, yeah. I'm meeting with District Attorney Danny Carr, but not at his office in the courthouse.

We're at the barber shop, he owns and Birmingham's insulate community, where he grew up. From the insulate community where we are today, I'm matriculated through the Birmingham city school system. The barber shop is old school, tile floors, posters of hairstyles on the walls,

“and a sign, advertising $10 haircuts. Can you talk while he's buzzing?”

I don't normally interview prosecutors while they're getting a haircut, but Danny Carr is a busy man.

In 2018, when he was elected District Attorney of Jefferson County, he became the first black man

to hold the position. He now runs the same office that argued for tauntons to be sentenced to death for deputy billhardy's murder. But Danny Carr wasn't part of tauntons' prosecution. He wasn't even a lawyer yet when it happened. Danny Carr is different from other DAs in a number of ways. He ran as a changemaker. He put together the first conviction review unit in Jefferson County. The unit's job is to review cases where the DAs office might have made some

mistakes. He's one of only three black DAs among the 42 across Alabama. He grew up in a community

“that's been impacted by crime and mass incarceration. His family has also been a victim of violence.”

The year he was hired as a young prosecutor, Danny's younger brother Jackson was murdered. Danny named his barber shop, D and J, and his brother's memory, D for Danny, J for Jackson.

Can you kind of walk me through your involvement in the Tforus Johnson case? When did you first

become aware of it? I became aware of it when I was a assistant DA. Conversations about it. But I didn't know true that the facts of it. I just overheard different conversations, varying opinions about it, and then what happened. Once Danny was elected as DA, he started hearing more about Tforus's case as a possible wrongful conviction. And the year after Danny was elected, Tforus's case was back in court.

This was the hearing. I covered the first time I reported on Tforus's case, where his attorneys argued that violent elicent testified in pursuit of the reward money and the state hid it. I saw Danny car at the hearing, but he told me he wasn't ready yet to comment on the case. So after the hearing, Danny decided to conduct a full review of Tforus's conviction. For nine months, he read through the trial transcripts, as well as the documents that prosecutors

had claimed were misfiled. He was troubled by the $5,000 reward payment given to Violet Ellison that the jury didn't even know was a possibility. Well, if that information was not disclosed, then the process was flawed, and if the process was flawed, then the end result is not truly the end result. Because to get to that end result, the process has to be fair.

Danny also talked to people involved, including alibi witnesses. But perhaps the most significant person Danny car consulted, the original prosecutor, Jeff Wallace, the same prosecutor who asked two juries to sentence Tforus to death. It turns out Jeff Wallace had his own questions about the credibility of his star witness, Violet Ellison, going back 15 years.

Several years after Tforus was convicted, Jeff said he was passing through a courtroom

He just needed to ask the bailiff a question.

And as I left the bailiff station, which, of course, is in the front of the courtroom, walking out and happened to notice in the spectator's area on the front row, the defendant's wife being consoled by her chief witness in the Johnson case. - In my Nelson. - Ms. Ellison, that's right. In my mind, that conduct was inconsistent with the picture that I had of Ms. Ellison at the time of trial.

“She seemed to me to be only a mother who tried to do the best thing for her daughter”

and happened over here, of telephone conversation, and that record that the notice that she made of that telephone conversation became important in the trial of Mr. Johnson as, you know, so her credibility as the citizen she was, I think was important because she was the case. She is the case. To be clear, I'm not sure what consoling a suspected drug dealer's wife has to do with

violent Ellison's credibility into forest's case. But Jeff said, it left him with an unsettling impression about his star witness, a realization that there were things about her he didn't know. So seeing her being so close to the wife of a man that everybody knew was a major drug dealer disturbed with that image in my mind, I thought, well, I'm going to report that to the other side to the defense. - And he did. In 2007, Jeff Wallace talked to Tefore's legal team about what he saw.

They looked into the information, but so far it hasn't led to any new legal claims for Teforeist. Fast forward 13 years, and Danny Carr calls on Jeff Wallace to talk about the conviction of Tefore's Johnson. Jeff shares his concerns about Violet Ellison's credibility, and then he does something that makes a major impression on Danny. Jeff Wallace says he believes Teforeist should be granted a new trial. This incredible development pushes Danny to take public action.

"Your job is not to get conviction. Your job is to seek the truth." But Danny has one more important call to make to deputy Bill Hardy's family.

He braces himself. It's never easy for a prosecutor to talk to a victim's family about unsettling

the conviction and their loved ones murder. But he picks up the phone and calls deputy Hardy's widow, Patricia Diane Hardy. - And on that call, she said, "Look, she's I know your mom, I know you, but no instance you was a little boy." She said, "You know, I trust you, and whatever the city you make, I'm fine with it, but I trust you. And you can't get any better than me."

“And that's what you want from people, period. - And then Danny Carr does something extraordinary.”

Something that almost never happens. He files a brief with the Jefferson County court writing that his duty to seek justice requires intervention in the case of to forest Johnson. He asks Judge Pulliam to throw out to forest's conviction and order a new trial. And he includes that the original prosecutor, Jeff Wallace, supports this call for a new trial. Of all the capital murder cases that you've looked at, you've tried, you've been familiar with,

as DA, how do you see this case? How would you describe it in the context of all the cases you've seen? I think it's the worst case. - I spoke with Jeff Wallace about his support for a new trial.

“I think you joining the District Attorney is a powerful statement from a former prosecutor in a”

capital case. I can't remember. In my reporting of over 20 years,

ever seeing that or hearing about it. - Oh, I'm sure I'm not the first.

Jeff seemed to want to downplay the significance of his support for a new trial, but this is seriously rare. I looked for other cases like this and reached out to experts who study

trial prosecutor called for a new trial. I interviewed Jeff Wallace three different times

“with four hours of on-the-record conversations. Jeff was accessible and generous with his time,”

but he was also careful with his words. - I still am personally satisfied. That the evidence showed to force Johnson to be guilty. Of course, my opinion is based in a large part on the testimony of the Violet Ellison that I saw at trial. But there's a in my opinion there's a reason to look at it again. - This is what I mean by careful. He says the evidence at trial showed to forest to be guilty based on Violet Ellison's testimony.

But he also says the concern he had about Violet Ellison's credibility is why he supports the

call for a new trial. After my first conversation with Jeff Wallace in 2021, I did a lot more

“investigating into Violet Ellison. I asked to speak with Jeff again because I wanted to share”

everything that I learned. - We also found that in addition to being a witness in this case, Violet Ellison has been a witness in four other criminal cases in Jefferson County. - After Johnson case. - Before during and after. I tell Jeff about the other cases where Violet Ellison was a witness for the state and that the

defense accused her of lying to police and under oath. He listens politely.

But what I really want is for Jeff Wallace to hear some clips of what people are saying about Violet Ellison. The star witness he put on the stand. The same witness he now has questions about. Do you have any interest in listening to what we found? - Oh. - You don't. I find that like astonishing. I don't know. Can you please? Can you explain why you don't want to hear what we found? - I'm not the prosecuting attorney in the case.

Or for that matter of a defending attorney. Of course, I couldn't be. - Yeah, but Jeff, I mean, you tried this case and you asked the jury to sentence him to death and

“he's on death row. - That was the state of the evidence when I was standing in the court, right?”

- The evidence hasn't changed in your mind after what we've told you. - No, I think the evidence has changed, but there's no longer my responsibility. In a way, he's right. The responsibility of all death row cases after conviction falls to Alabama's attorney general, an elected position that represents the entire state, unlike district attorneys, who represent a single county. The current attorney general in Alabama is Steve Marshall.

He could listen to Danny Carr and Jeff Wallace and allow a new trial for to force Johnson. But instead, the AG's office calls this a subjective opinion that does not raise an issue of extraordinary public importance or any compelling circumstances. Marshall's office is still actively and aggressively fighting to forests appeals and seeking his execution. These conflicting positions make me think of those big metal grain silos that you see in

the Midwest with each party in our criminal justice system in its own silo isolated from the opposing view, trapped in their official position. I talk with Jeff Wallace about this dynamic. It does seem like there are a lot of silos that people are in in the system and they stay in those silos. Does that make sense? - It does, and if a silo is a thing that you cannot climb out of, then that's where I am.

I've told you what I think. If it were legal and it represented to me, would you or would you not

calling a silo, my silo is a retired former prosecutor who happened to have been in charge of this case

“at one time. - So why can't you climb out of the silo? - What silo would I climb into?”

- I can't pay up to the pellet judge. I can't pay the defendant's turn. I can't pay a juror. I can't pay the defendant. - What if we just all climb out of our silo? It was in nobody's in the silo anymore. We're all just kind of out in the open. - Will a law has set up through silo and the law is still in effect? - Yeah, there's this quote on the outside of the Jefferson County courthouse that

- We're in bondage to the law and order that we may be free. - That's it.

We are in bondage to the law and order that we may be free. It's a quote from Roman philosopher Cicero. Why do we have to be in bondage to something to be free? - Yeah, we have laws or we don't. Which way do you want it? - I guess one thing that we've been thinking about is like,

“what is the cost of that bondage? And is it that sometimes you end up with situations like this?”

- I sure hope not. But the law is the law. No one is willing to present me that piece of paper and ask me whether I would order a new trial. - I'm in bondage to law. - You may see Jeff Wallace's support for a new trial as a half measure. He could call the case in injustice and take more accountability for his role

and to force his conviction. But a trial prosecutor saying anything that calls a conviction into question is exceptional. There's no incentive for Jeff Wallace to say a word, no framework for prosecutors to voice doubt or space for regrets to count. And yet Jeff Wallace still chose to speak up when he didn't have to say anything at all. In this project, we tried to answer the question of how an innocent man ended up on death row.

We laid bear an investigation that was rushed to conclusion by tunnel vision and pressure to convict someone. Anyone for the murder of a deputy sheriff. This case shows us how young, marginalized people like Yolanda Chambers can be exploited and how money is wielded as an incentive for vulnerable people to become ensnared with law enforcement. It also demonstrates the terrible consequences for people who can't afford to pay for the best criminal defense.

So far, the court said there was nothing illegal about what the state did,

“presenting five different theories about who committed the murder and paying the key witness”

behind closed doors, only admitting to this payment 17 years later. This is how our system works. According to the courts that have examined to forced Johnson's conviction, it's not broken. It's working exactly as designed. They say that you've presumed innocent unto proven guilty, and that is the law. Former attorney general Bill Baxley,

people don't believe somebody's innocent until they prove guilty beyond reasonable doubt. They think that they had to do something or they wouldn't have been arrested and wouldn't have been entirely wouldn't be there. Not only do they present people guilty, but they look at these people as expendable. Richard Jaffy, who represented our dragist Ford. When the system failed to forest Johnson, it betrayed all of us. To forest Johnson is as innocent as anyone could possibly be

deputy hardy, would never want the wrong person to be convicted for his murder.

After Jaffy's client, our dragist Ford was acquitted. He lived a quiet life, mostly in Atlanta.

He'd never talk about it. He was strong. He'd never talked about it. But you know,

“you know, he would get quiet at times. He would be roads in the wheelchair and go sit quiet with his”

head down. You know, it took him a while to try to overcome it. You'd never overcome it, but so, you know, he had his days. You know, do it all through the grace of God. It took, it was a long, hard belt, but I would never wish that on a mother. Our dragist died from health issues in 2021. His mom, Joyce Ford, died less than a year after

we recorded this interview.

I've been reporting on to Forest's case since 2019. I've interviewed dozens of people, but the one person I'd still most like to talk to is the very person I can't reach.

“Alabama's prison system doesn't allow people on death row to talk to journalists.”

To Forest's family, his share dozens of digital photos with me that I've kept an folder on my laptop. There's to Forest as a baby wearing a tiny suit, as a skinny kid wearing a bow tie, and so many photos from visits at Holman Prison with his arms around his family. And I know the closest I can get to him is through the people he loves the most. His kids.

Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guide, not quite on humor me with Robert Smygo and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffyons, the Bob Oden Curl, to David Letterman, help make you funnier this week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Sidel, help an occupile band with their between songs banter.

“The worst? Yeah, me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard?”

You only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The yard learns, right? That's the name. The yard doesn't open. Do you have any suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle ages, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygo and friends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. You and me. I need some jokes to make me feel funny.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games, some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having troubles stopping the muscle growth. Listen to superhuman on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fans, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought provoking Star Wars related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of 2. Listen to stuff to

build your mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Writing about your dad's case for about two years now, so I'm so happy to finally see y'all and

me all and get to hang out with you especially. In October of 2021, I asked to forest kids if we could all get together and talk, so we meet up on a Saturday afternoon at his oldest daughter Shenae pool's place. It's a light filled condo and downtown Birmingham. Her golden doodle named banks,

dad. I remember going and breathing lies on how short he will though. He's so short when we took a picture

on Saturday. He's on short. I'm Shenae pool, I am the oldest daughter of taunton forest. Shenae has his smile. I'm Marie's mire's and I'm the fourth oldest of ours. His son, Marie's mire's has his eyes and nose. His oldest child, Tremaine Perry, has his voice and laugh. And a curie who goes by muffin, his youngest, looks like she could be a twin to to forest in his younger years. To forest has one other son named Robby Foster, but he was unable

to join us for this gathering because he was living in Colorado at the time. He also looks like his father's twin. An inside joke is these siblings all share a common attribute from their dad.

“My head, man, we all got the big heads if you haven't known him. That's what's really”

the best of for him. He blessed us all with that. That's why I grew my head. So I know I was the oldest, so I saw maybe a lot more than they did. I knew what was going on like when I stopped seeing him, you know what I'm saying? Because they told me like right off the bat. So how old were you when he was? About six or seven. This is Tremaine, the oldest cub. I was getting rid of the arm that asked my mom to take me to my parents house. I want to go

my dad as we can and she's like you won't be able to go this weekend because she won't he's not going to be there. So what you mean? Well yeah, I went on the comeback. She's like no, there might be a man before he come back and that's when I ended up calling my grandma and she just let

“me know what was going on just right there. And that kid kind of killed my spirits, you know what I'm saying?”

I don't think like if he didn't run and why he gone. I could never get an answer for that.

Nobody could ever answer that, you know what I'm saying? So it's just knowing that this man it said my hand balls 20 plus years for something that he didn't do. That's hard work. You're the thing about how life will be if it hadn't happened, if things could be reversed, you think about life stuff. But you can never get that, you know what I'm saying? Shouldn't I also remember trying to put the pieces together about why she had to go to the

prison to see her dad? So I'm home in my mom and I go visit my dad, but I didn't realize that that was a normal until we get into a great school and I see children with their two parents home. And so now I'm like okay, this is something that's not, this is not adding to something that's not right. So you know, help me understand what's happening and then it's like okay what he's away, but he's innocent. So what does innocent mean? I'm a kid. I don't understand what that means.

“He's there for something that he didn't do. Okay well why can't he just come home then?”

And so then I begin to get frustrated with him because I'm like okay what you didn't do it then you could just come home. But clearly it doesn't work that way. And then as I got older, even though their father wasn't at home to Forest's kids didn't stop seeing him. They would get in the car with their grandmother Donna to Forest's mother to make the 210 mile drive from

Birmingham to Holman Prison three hours each way. As a rebel always riding that's all right and now

it's all your only now. It's about it. It's almost like he's driving the floor and going down now. Isn't it middle and nowhere? It's no really no road like to lead to anywhere I have done. I have no idea. We took those trips. In Alabama, visits with men on death row are done in the visiting yard. The same area to Forest met with his attorney, Ty. It's called the yard but it's indoors like a big cafeteria lined with

Yeah. Oh, a feather. A feather. The freezer bag. You had a few loaves. No, it was full of quarters.

“It's a nilcos. How to change with and get. But before they got into the prison to see their dad”

with the big bag of quarters. So everyone could get their favorite snacks and candy from the prison yard vending machines. To Forest's kids had to go through prison security where guards searched them and padded them down. Look at thinking back on a muffin. I didn't really think about this until now. Just kind of how about violating it kind of was with them. Because they had to search us. Like the same way. Yeah, it was my kind of nilcos. It was my kind of nilcos. And we were children.

Basically touching. I love you. And I was just like, this is a little weird. I'm comfortable with you touching me. I'm just a key. I'm not breaking nothing in here. So it was just real ballet. And I was like, I really don't want to come back. But I want to so I can see my day. I just don't want you to touch me. But we couldn't touch him whenever we were in there. So of course you didn't want to sit on your dad's lap. You want to lay on them and hug on them and you can't do

“that. You have to keep your distance from each other. And like Tremaine said, there's never”

enough time. It always seems like it's just we just got here. And you have to turn back around

and get on the road trip again. The visits were just a few hours. Once a month at most. But it's where and how they got to know their father. Their relationships with their father are marked by both his absence and his presence. They admire his strength. The way he loves to hear about their lives when they talk on the phone. And how he never makes them feel like their problems are small.

When he calls you and you just want to talk about the good things. And he's lived this life too. So now it's really going on. Like I can hear your voice. Okay, princess. So not right. And I never like to tell him anything because he's just he's there's nothing that he could do. But he's like you this is my way of being a father to you. This is how I can parent you. So allow me to do that and then you feel so much better if you talk to him about it. He is. Oh, he's going to make you laugh.

He's going to make you laugh. He's going to make you laugh. I'm going to go again. I'm not mad anymore. Yeah. Thank you. Right. And in this hard to be meant, you know, it is hard to be angry or

mad or kind of self-sulk because and you think about his situation. Right. And he always adds.

So which eat I never want to tell him what I ate for dinner. Never. Because I don't know you. I hate telling. I know he can't eat the sign. You know. Yeah. But he wants to know what you made. He wants to know or he wants like what we did today. Like if he would be able to fall with a tremendous amount of resources. Yeah. I taught to a a tremendous amount of resources at the day and they were out somewhere. But he want to say they were

he'd like we were. So like he's living through my brother. It's like whatever they do, he thinks like he's out with them. Yeah. We're human bodies. Like we have been affected. These are men that missed out on their father raising them. He's missed the birth of multiple grandchildren. He's missed milestones.

Us completing college and getting our first bit grow jobs and purchasing our first homes.

Like these are really important things that he has missed out on. And so you have space and you have time between all of us that we literally cannot get back. Like there's nothing that we could do about it. And so the least that you could do is take be accountable for what was done.

“And I think that that's all we're asking for. At this point we're not trying to point the”

finger at anybody. We just we want true justice to be served and we just want him to come home and for that to be some type of accountability held. And it's frustrating. It's this heartening. But it's like what we just got to keep fighting. Because we got to fight for daddy. We got to fight to get daddy home. I think we've passed a point of pointing the finger. And you know we're still hurting. We're still angry. We're still confused. I've said we have a lot of emotions. But we just

want him to come home. Why is to forest Johnson still on Alabama's death row? Why is he still locked in a cell when so many people, including the prosecutor who argued to put him there, are calling for a new trial? In early October, 2023, the United States Supreme Court announced

they have appeals pending in both state and federal courts. This is where we find ourselves,

unable to tell you how this story ends. I plan to stay here with De Forest, his family, his children, his lawyers, and everyone else who believes in him will continue to hold him in the

“light of truth. Hey daddy. Hey princess. Hi. What you doing? I'm good. How was your day?”

It was good. Long today. Still trying to get used to.

To forest, calls his family from prison whenever he can. But his oldest daughter Shanay,

also keeps his cards and letters in a case-swiss shoebox under her bed. If I had to describe this card, there it's a beehive on the front with a few bees buzzing around and it's dated January the 5th 2003. Like all the people who love to forest Johnson,

“his five kids and 15 grandkids, his mother Donna, his aunts, uncles, and cousins,”

they read the words he sent them over the years when they need to hold him close.

It reads, I love you and can't wait to see you and hold you in my arms again. You, underlined, are the reason daddy has a spirit to get up every day and has hope that there will be a better day up ahead for me. And he says Shanay, daddy wants you to be a good young lady and do with your mother as of you. I love you and I hope to see you again real soon. Be good all right.

“To learn more about the fight to free to forest Johnson, sign up for updates and learn how you can”

help visit the website created by greater Birmingham ministries for to forest. It's to forestjonsson.com and a special thanks to the family of to forestjonsson who have generously shared so much for this series. [Music] Ear Witness is a production of lava for good podcasts in association with signal company number one. Executive producers are Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and me Beth Schelburn.

The investigative reporting for this series was done by me and Mara McNamira. Producers are Mara McNamira, Hannah Beal, and Jackie Polly. Caracorn Haber is our senior producer. Brit Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from Marie Sutton. Fact check help from Catherine Newhand and special thanks to to forestjonsson's legal defense team.

You can follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Twitter at lava for good. To see behind the scenes content from our investigation, visit lavaforgood.com/ear Witness. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite on humor me with Robert's Michael and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden Creek to David Letterman help make you funnier this week my guests SNL's Mikey Day and Headwriters Streeter Side L helped an

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

“Listen to humor me with Robert's Michael and Friends on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts,”

or wherever you get your podcasts. On the look back at a podcast.

The next seminar is Big Mama for me. 84's Big To Me.

“I'm Sam Jack and I'm Alex E. Grish. Each episode we pick you here,”

unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends,

federal comedians and favorite others like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

“If you get it, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.”

Listen to look back at it on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I put on 10 pounds. I was having troubles stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to superhuman on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.