FULL Breakdown of this Historic 2026 NBA Draft Class + Dybantsa vs. Peterson Debate

- Hello and welcome to The Who Collected Podcast.

We talk about the NBA,

“which we are doing actually a little bit early this week.”

And we're gonna be honest. I'm out of the mix on Thursday so we're taping this on Wednesday. All right, I'm just gonna be honest with you. So whatever went down on the NBA on Thursday,

and Wednesday night, we ain't good enough about it here, just being fair. Joining us from New York City, I believe, is where Vince Goodwill is. What up though, Wendy, that's what I'm,

that's gonna be my greetings and some from Detroit. - What I'm saying. What up though, as well, we're going to say. - All right, and I'm very happy to welcome back

to The Who Collected Podcast. ESPN College Basketball Analyst, 'cause we're gonna be talking about the college guys today. Justin to Dallas, where he lives from Auburn,

which I don't even know who Auburn played last night.

That's how I roll. Is King McClure, what's up, King? - My man, how are we doing? Man, I don't have any privilege. I appreciate you inviting me.

- Who did Auburn play last night?

“- Auburn played LSU, and when you hit that matchup,”

it's typically football matchup that, be like, oh my gosh, it's a high level matchup, but basketball are both teams that kind of sorted in the bottom of the SEC. My Auburn needed that game last night,

in order to make the tournament, and he'd probably like a few more wins known to get in. LSU was just completely out there just ready for a rebuild there, tear the whole thing down.

So Auburn won, and they should be trying to, when they get a few more to be able to make the tournament this year. - All right, well, we also know that you specialize in the Big 12, you played the Big 12 of the Baylor. We're talking about some Big 12 players here.

And so, our draft analyst at ESPN.com. Jeremy Woo recently came out with a mock draft. I'm not sure which ranking this one is. But anyway, I just thought I would go over, so we're just getting ready for the college basketball season

to intensify King. I'm sure, were you gonna be during championship week? Where is ESPN dragging you? - Yes, I'm at the so-called tournament, and then... - Which is where?

- It's in Asheville, North Carolina. Another place that can be hard to get into, but I heard it's beautiful out there. - Yes, I once covered a preseason game in Asheville, and I flew in in a soup, and I flew out in the soup.

I never even saw the mountains,

but it seems like this is a nice place. I've heard good things about it, but I was there for, you know, like, 17 hours and never saw the sun. - Oh, well, okay, then where?

- The net, that's it. I was on a big Sunday. - I was on a big Sunday. - I was on a big 12-term with the past few years, but this year, you know, Billis and GameBays going,

so I'm not there this year. - All right, well, I trust me.

“That's how I've lived most of my career to ESPN.”

And the big 12, did you see this events? They've got, the court is all LED. - Yeah. - The whole court is LED, and they can like change that look at the court in one second with an iPad.

- I did not see that at all. - Yeah. - And that kind of scares me. Like, what are we doing here? - What happened to good old fashioned hardwood?

- Yeah, you know what I mean. - It's gone. It's gone. And I mean, I want to say that I think, now, how about this for a sponsorship?

The sponsor, the, I think it's a presenting sponsor, I don't know, you don't hold me to that, is wind X. (laughs) 'Cause it's like a, you know, I don't think it's glass, I think it's probably like Plexiglass, but I don't know.

- I mean, windy, windy, windy X. Maybe you should be searching for some additional sponsorships. - Listen, I'm prepared to endorse. I'm available for endorsements. - And don't give the NBA any ideas as far as LED courts

and stuff like that, 'cause they'll do something wacky, like that in the fall. - Well, I don't want to do railways too much, but you know, the league is, you know, the league is trying to lean into nostalgia right now,

and they're bringing back the decals for the playoffs in the finals this year. - Yeah, supposedly? - 'Cause you know, King, they stopped using them, like they gave it a go. The reason they stopped using them wasn't because they didn't

want to, didn't make the court look special. It was because players were wiping out on them, because their giant stickers, and it was causing the court to be slick, it was a player's safety issue. That's why they stopped doing it.

So, windy, I don't care, and the people don't care. You know, like when I say that, I say, not to go home on a tangent, like, but windy, you gotta make something feel big. And when the NBA finals looks like

a regular season game on a Tuesday night, it doesn't present the field to a casual fan or even a die hard, that this means something. That's the one thing the NBA supposed to do better than everybody else is supposed to do presentation

and passion tree. And, okay, yeah, it makes a couple hundred thousand dollars to make. There's not decals that put them on the actual floors windy. And as I suggested to a few of the NBA's brass

during the finals, make the two courts during the conference finals, auction the two other courts off. And you'll make your money back, 'cause someone will have a piece of nostalgia

- Right, well, the team that wins would buy the court.

I guarantee you that. King, now I'm old enough to remember when the NCAA games, the NCAA tournament games, were not played on generic courts. And they would just play it on the courts

and they would put down stickers or whatever. I understand why they're all played on these, the generic blue courts, blue and black courts or best or blue and white. But I wish they were played up,

'cause you don't know where the games are. Like you remember, I understand for the final four that it's the branding's a little bit different, but in my head, I know this is nothing about, we're not evaluating college players here,

but do you like the generic courts where you have no idea where the game is or do you think that they should go back to playing on the regular courts wherever they're playing it? - Well, I'm not old enough to remember those

they did you with the three of them. - That's sad, thank you. - That you're talking about... - I know Vince remembers it. - Yes, I do.

- But honestly, I don't mind. I really don't see an issue with what they're doing

“and I think the NCAA is just in that realm of”

if you try to change one thing, all of a sudden, everything is gonna blow up. - Yeah, I know. - I know. - So, let's keep the tournament the way it is.

Let's keep it safe. Let's not expand, let's just keep the way it is. It's been good, it's been good. So, it's been good, no need for changes. - All right, along those lines,

suppliers who are gonna be stand-outs in the NCAA tournament, who are then gonna be carrying their names on draft night. Let's start, so with what Jeremy Wu has and I wanna go through some of these players,

if you listen to the pod and King knows this because he's done some draft stuff with me at ESPN in the past. I just don't have band-width for college basketball. I talk to scouts about these players.

I learn these players when they come into the NBA in summer league and when I watch them play. So, I'm reliant on experts like King to help me out. So, Jeremy Wu's number one pick at this point is Darren Peterson out of Kansas.

He had a dud last night with a rest of the J-hawks Tuesday night in Arizona State. This is an interesting player, King. I wanna hear what you think about him. - Yeah, well, it's no secret that he's in elite talents.

He's in elite shot maker. But there are a lot of questions and a lot of concerns that get brought up and I'm not going to be of the camp that says this young man doesn't love to play. He doesn't want to play. I'm not gonna be that guy

“'cause I think that's a very unfair label to put on him.”

But let's just say, hypothetically, that, what they're saying about these injuries are true.

So, the first question mark comes to play is,

if, I mean, like you guys know, the best ability in the NBA is availability, right? So, if you can barely make it through a 32 game season or a 30-hour mini game season that you play in college, my question is, can you make it through 82 plus, you know?

So, I think that's the first question that we really have to do a deeper dive in none of us know because we're not on the inside. We don't really know what's going on, but I'm sure NBA teams do their research

and really find that out. But let's just talk strictly whoops, right? For when he's on, let's forget about all the extra nods and all the fluff. Here, my concerns with him.

We know that he's one of the best shot makers in college basketball that we've seen in the very long time. However, I think that if he's not scoring the basketball, he doesn't make an impact on the overall game.

And why do I say that, right? In his last four games, he scored 70 points, but it's taken him 70 shots, known that it gets 70 points. His efficiency is really falling as of lately,

but also, let's say you're not scoring the ball in the efficient clip. What else are you doing to help your team? Well, he has 31 assists to 30 turnovers on the whole season.

He's not a great facilitator. He doesn't really make everybody else around him better. So my concern is outside of scoring, outside of shot making. What are you doing to impact the game

if the ball is not falling?

“- He's six, five wing or I guess he's a combo guard, right?”

And six, five good size Vince. By the way, did you see Bill Self get ejected in Tuesday night, Vince? - No, I don't know.

- Bill Self got ejected in the first half of the game.

And one of the funniest things that I've seen all season, at least all calendar year, he gets ejected and he's walking off the court. And he walks out the tunnel, you know, and Tempe has earned his own estate.

And as he walks through the tunnel, they whoever has it pushes the button and they shoot the smoke machine off. So as he's walking out the tunnel, I think they shoot the smoke machine.

- Timing, I like that.

You know, talking to some people earlier today,

the name that came up for me was Devin Booker. Like someone brought up Devin Booker as a pro cop. And I'm not gonna do pro cop every play we talk about, but I thought for purposes of this discussion, it was interesting.

He, they athleticism doesn't quite jump off the page, but he isn't athletic guard. All right, like he can get to where he needs to get to. Like you said, the shot making is a lead. The concern I have is, is twofold.

If you are pulling yourself out of games, if you are load managing in college, like King said,

“how are you gonna manage the rigors of an NBA game?”

If somebody else is making the decision to pull you out of games, then at what point where their influence extend once you get to the pros,

like either you could either be a headache

or health concern. And I don't know which one is actually easier and I understand where in when the King were in the age of load management, right? Like everybody has to protect whatever the long-term,

long-term prospects are for you to make as much money and hang around as long as possible, right? But at what point do you just go out there and play? And I'm not saying that he's not doing it. I'm saying this is a question that executives have posed

to me who are saying, okay, I want to talk to this kid and see exactly where his head is because his talent is a top level. I did talk to an executive this morning who said, now when you ask me top level talent,

are you saying multiple time all star or change your life and I said change your life? And he said, no, he's a multiple time all star. 100% spout on spies. - A lot of teams tanking that are hoping

for change your life, guys, just say no. - I don't think he's a guy that is going to change your life. I mean, we look up in about 10 or 15 years, he's gonna average about 20, for his career 20 plus, for his career,

multi-time all star, but I really don't see a guy that is literally the change your life type of star, that, you know, Vince just talked about. So I agree spout on. - Kelly Roland changes your life, Wendy.

(laughing) - You know what I mean? - Gotcha. (laughing) - We need that right there.

- We need that level of prospect. - Kelly Roland changes your life. - I got it. - More who collect it podcast after this? (upbeat music)

- All right, a two Jeremy Wu has AJ DeBanza or DeBanza. When I met him, he went by DeBanza, as a DeBanza, DeBanza King. - Man, I've heard so many different reiterations of his name.

“The latest is DeBanza, that's what I heard.”

I've heard DeBanza, DeBanza, I've heard all types of different formulations of his name, but the latest I've heard is DeBanza. - I think I've talked to you guys, I've talked to the Bible as soon as about

my relationship with some of the members of the family. I have watched AJ more because I got to meet him and know him a little bit a year ago, a year and a half ago.

I want to watch his first college game this year,

King had Nebraska. So I'll let you go here, but I actually may be able to comment a little bit more on AJ, but go ahead, be why you, by the way, what is he, six, nine, small four?

- Yeah, I love this kid, Wendy. In my panel, you asked me earlier, you're gonna give away a number of pick. In my opinion, I think this is the number one pick to me. Just because I think he has the highest upside.

He has the highest potential out of the guys in the top 10, because he is extremely versatile and has a skill set in which I don't think too many other guys in this track class has and can be able to replicate. So when you look at what he does well,

I mean, he's leading the nation in scoring. Almost at 25 points for game and in my opinion, he's not shooting a ball well. So he's able to get his bucket and a plethora of ways and his three points shot to me can get

and can vastly improve.

“So that's one thing and I think the thing”

that people sleep on when you watch him play is his ability to be able to put to pass. So he's played in 30 games and 33% of those games. So 10 of those games, he's had five or more assists. I mean, this young man can actually facilitate.

He can put the ball in spots in which you look at a guy his size and you're like, oh, that's intriguing, right? And his ability to be able to really honestly be the best passer, be the best facilitator on a BYU team that truthfully, in my opinion, then really

have a true point guard. Right, right is a great score, but I don't think right is really a point guard.

It's looking to score first, past second. So AJ has had to really embrace that role and step up to be that lead primary bar handler to make plays. And I think he's at a tremendous job of that. So the air is a concern.

His three point shot, I think it can be a little better. He can improve those numbers and give more attempts. He doesn't take a lot, but the one he does take, I would like him to see it be more efficient. And defensively, right?

He has all the tools we just haven't seen it, because BYU isn't a program that, if you go to Houston, you know you're going to guard, right? BYU is not that program. You go to BYU, you know you're going to outscore opponents.

You know that you're going to be able to run good sets, because Kevin Young is a great mastermind.

But you never, ever used the word defense with the BYU

coogers. So I do think that he can take a jump, or he can take a step on the defensive side, because he has all the guy giving abilities to be able to do so. Wendy would jump south to me.

When I, whenever you like, you watch a player play,

“you have to like resist certain temptations, right?”

And I watched him play, like, maybe one of his first games. And I was like, man, he's moving really fluidly. It don't look like he's trying, but he's got a motor. So you know what, the name that came up to me, and I brought this up to a GM a few days ago.

And I was like, does he look like Tracy McGradity to you? And he says, absolutely not. He has a much higher motor than Tracy McGradity to you. Wow. He's not, he's saying from a motor stamp, not necessarily

from skillset and everything else. But he says, yeah, I remember Tracy McGradity

went Tracy first on to the scene.

AJ has a higher. Like you don't have to ask him to play in that way. Like he's going to take the challenge and everything. So you know, Tracy, you flowed it even when he was a pro. But that's what made him so great.

You know, all that type of stuff, but his size, like King said, like, some of the games that I've seen on play Wendy, he makes pro reads. Like, not necessarily, oh, this is the past, that's the assist. But you can see where his eyes go.

You can see where he wants to take a pass, where he wants to take a play.

“And to me, that's far more important than an assist total,”

or whatever it's being able to make those reads, just because pro defenses are so much different. And college defenses when you get how heavy the zone is, how shrink, how shrunk the floor is, and college compared to the pro game.

But he has, like, a smoothness and a polish to his game

and Wendy that, like you said, change a life.

When I look at him, like, it just, it looks like he fits the eye test of this guy can change a life. - So yeah, I mean, I can't assess it. I will tell you, he's one of the best midrange shooters for a teenager I've ever seen.

I mean, I'm watching Jalen Brown, like, have dominating success in the league right now, hunting midrange shots. And you know, I've been around long enough to see things go out of style and come back into style.

And I'm telling you, after watching Jalen Brown dominate the way he has, average 30 points of game this year, at that midrange, there's gonna be guys who go look, and I know that the efficiency is not there,

but if you are gonna shoot at the percentages that Jalen Brown is shooting, the efficiency is there. Well, the efficiency of Rager DeBansa is definitely in the midrange.

I haven't watched games where this guy is devastating from the midrange. And yes, absolutely King, you are right

“but not on him as the three point shot isn't as good”

as it needs to be to be at elite NBA wing. And I'm sure that that was something you could take used to work on. But I'll say about him and knowing him and his family a little bit,

they've been focused on having an NBA mentality for years now. And look, let's be honest, he went to BYU because he got an enormous NIL deal. But part of the reason he selected BYU

was that Kevin Young, their coach, is an NBA coach. He was an NBA coach for many years, one of the top assistants in the league when he was in Phoenix. Might have been able to get an NBA head coaching job

at some point, but left the lead to his own model, BYU. Their training staff at BYU is an NBA, they hired them from NBA sources, all the NBA experience. And so this is kind of,

it's not exactly what Victor Wimbynham had did, but when Victor Wimbynham is last year in Europe before he came over, they set the whole team up. The team was defunct now, it's gone.

The team was going to go out of business and they sort of rescued it for a little bit and set the entire team up to maximize Victor's NBA preparedness. And what I mean by that, for example,

is they went out and got American point guards because they wanted him in some the point guards who had some NBA experience because they wanted him to practice running NBA style, pick and roll.

For example. And by the way, he Victor's so good that the team got to the French league finals anyway. Even though it wasn't, you know, optimized as a guy for French league play.

They have, who's the other shooter

that they've got, King? - Rich and Sanders who got injured. - Right.

“Yeah, he got injured, but he's gonna be an NBA player.”

- But sure. - But sure. - He was training league, yes. - Right, he's a great shooter. So, but this team and this experience for AJ

is really been about maximizing his position to thrive when he gets to the NBA, which it's not like Kansas hasn't churned out a whole bunch of players. Like Darren Peterson is not having that experience,

just to be clear. But it was particularly, you know, crafted for AJ. And that's why I kind of rolled my eyes that is quotes on a podcast as I might come back, I mean, how many times have we heard that?

Oh, I do think, I will say this, King, like, and Vince, we already are seeing late first round picks. I'm trying to think who the player was who maybe did what had gone late first round this year and came back as brothers in the league.

I don't remember now. Anyway, with where NIO, what, with where NIO money is, there are definitely players who are staying in college because where they can get more money, then they would get if they were the very back end

of the first round on the second round. You know, there's millions more guaranteed. We are not there yet with the top end of the draft. - No, we better not be. I mean, Cooper, Cooper flags, Cooper flags,

salary this year is number one pick is 14 million.

So I'm sure that number one pick this year will be somewhere in that range. And I don't exactly know what Darren Peterson and Debonta got. I'm sorry, Debansa, which is what Jackson, do I say that right Jackson, Debansa?

I mean, they got millions and millions but they didn't get that much money. So while I respect the Jackson saying the Cooper flag for the same thing last year. So it's been a long history of doing it.

- But Wendy, millions, you can't stand. Don't worry, if you win the lottery, they're gonna come up. - But Wendy, if you look at it, per game, stand point. - Well, that's 22 games, it's 30 and no responsibility.

And I was gonna say you get to be around girls, but he goes to BYU, I don't think it really matters. But I will say this.

- You heard some of the, I'm not gonna say it on this podcast.

We work for Disney, but you heard some of the things that they say to BYU, yeah. - Yes, I've heard, I've heard. (laughing) - Don't get beat, but it's don't get beat.

- Yeah, yeah. - For particular thing that they tend to reference, I'll just leave it at that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, - Me too, me too, me too. - Me too, me too. - Me too, me too. - Me too, me too. (laughing) - The thing that I will say about AJ, and it makes sense

when you talk about his dad. - And by the way, AJ, I'm sorry to interrupt. AJ is like criticized that and like sort of called out, opposing fan bases for their behavior.

“- Mm-hmm. - And that's why I don't believe he's Mormon.”

I don't think he's Mormon, but go ahead. - Oh, okay, look, he is playing the hits. I might come back next year, I'm part of you guys. This is a family, just play the hits. The one thing I will say is that when I don't know what

the question was, and it was like a couple of weeks ago. Maybe it was when the way you play Kansas. And he said, you know, I don't mind playing. And it was a direct shot, of course, Peter said, that lets you know that he understands the power of media,

the power of branding, the power of messaging, and savvy in that way, and I have zero problem with that. If the next star is going to be able to use and leverage that to his advantage, so be it, even if he comes and be why you.

- Right. - Just don't put him in Utah. That's a bridge too far for me. (laughing) - Right. (laughing) All right, Jeremy Wu with number three,

he currently has Cameron Booser, the forward slash center out of Duke. This hits me because I remember when he was born. (laughing) I was covering his father, but that's my own problem.

Okay, and I've got to deal with that on my own. I've got to deal with my own mortality on my own. But Cam Booser, you know, again, it's not like going to Duke is like they haven't had a long history of producing great players, but what is Cameron Booser

done for you this year? - Yeah, he's your safe pick Wendy and Vince. I mean, he's the guy that you just know is going to be a great NBA player. He's just destined for success.

Because when you look at what he's done in college for Duke, arguably he's been the most consistent player in America. I mean, he's averaging a double double every single game, every single moment, they're running things through him. He leads Duke in assist, which is a good thing, a positive,

“but I think it's also a negative, especially when it comes”

time 'cause I'm a big believer in guards. Help you get wins when you get to march. And Duke's guards have to be a little bit better in order to help them be able to get wins to win the championship.

will them to the final four. I mean, the game against Michigan. I mean, that game right there, when we talk about the fight that Michigan got all season, then they're well deserving of it, because they're a great team, but when you look at Linda Berg,

you look at Mariah's Johnson, you look at Marah. I mean, that's two out of three guys who will be talking

about it in this upcoming draft in the first round,

in the front court. And they said they have the most dominant front court in college basketball. Well, Cam Booser said that's fine. I ask, cool, that's cute, right? I'm gonna go out there and show you what I do.

I'm gonna put the team on my back when it matters the most. Johnson gave the ball to him, and he delivered every single time. You know, I knew he was legit before that game, but when I saw him against Michigan, when the lights are the brightest, how do you respond, what do you do?

Do you step up and he did that? I mean, it's good to be able to pass and make everybody around him better. He raises the level because he is such a dominant force. We talk about creating advantages in college basketball, that one way that you can start off,

for instance, you can have a player so dominant that he automatically draws two. So when they automatically draw two every single time in touch to basketball, you instantaneously have that advantage. Cam Booser is one of those guys.

I mean, JT, Talves and Texas Tech is another one, but Cam Booser is one of those guys that automatically gravitate to two towards him.

So you always have an advantage on the floor

when he's out there. King, I'm curious, because that's six nine. Like when you look at him, he doesn't look like a tall six nine or a long six nine. Are you concerned about his size?

Like height having to play the four, or because as he such a good, you know, stretch the floor type of guy, like Carlos was a 18 foot shooter. So clearly he instilled that in his voice.

“Are you, is that lessable concern because he's a stretch floor?”

Yes, or any NBA he's a stretch floor. I've, I have two thoughts of this. It's twofold because I asked if you NBA scouts this when I was doing certain games. And we had this debacle because I was under the impression,

I'm like, you know what, he's a little small. I don't necessarily love him because at the four spot, I don't think he's agile enough to really be able to consistently play the four, but he's undersized to play the five in the league.

So I asked if you scouts and they go, what about Jalen during? What about Isaiah Stewart, you know? What are we seeing in the culinary boils? Like those guys are so strong that they're able to,

they're heart almost outweighs their height in a sense. And I think can't blues the rest strong enough. I think he's smart enough, number one. And I think he has enough skill to be able to be a small bar five on the next level in the NBA.

I don't necessarily think he's a four because I don't think he's shoot to well enough.

“I think he has to get better in that area.”

I guess not bad, but it's just not where he needs to be to play the four in the league. But I do think he can be a small bar five. And I think his toughness and his IQ can get him over the hump. - It's so interesting to me.

And again, I'm defaulting to being an old man here, but this could be his father's scouting report. His father was slightly undersized. I mean, he's power forward size, not center size. And was double double machine.

Now, his dad wasn't known as a passer. I'm not saying he couldn't throw a good pass, but he wasn't known as a passer. It wasn't like I'll play and make her like that. But I've seen people say that his shot mechanics aren't perfect.

That was something that his dad did. His dad when he came in the league, shot was a side shooter where he stopped the ball. Next to his head, and they had to move it over. They obviously became a multi-time all-star.

But was a second round pick, but it played,

“I think, two or maybe three years of Duke.”

He played multiple years of Duke. So it's just interesting to me. And again, not great athleticism, Carlos, but go try to get a rebound over him. He put his backside into you and pushed you out of the way.

So it just, I mean, obviously it's his son, but it's just so interesting to me that the thing is, in the draft where Boozer went, Jay Will was in that draft, he went to, I think Mike Dunley, they went in the top five. Yeah, he went five, don't leap in one five.

Okay, and then Carlos went like 32 or something like that, 31, 32, right at the top of the second round. And Carlos had the best career. I mean, obviously, Jay Will had that unfortunate accident. But again, is this a change your life player though,

or is this just a guy like, if he's like his father,

he's a multi-time all-star, but never the best player on the team.

Yeah, I don't think he's a change your life guy. I think the only one at the top three that could be a change of life. God possibly is AJ, but I think that when you look up, Campbell, who's going to play 10 to 15 years, make a whole lot of money. And he's going to be a winner.

He'll win a few championships, probably, just because I think he's that level of player to add to your team.

So I think we're having incredible career.

“But he's definitely not a change of life guy.”

He can be a player next to a star like he's not somebody that is going to command so much attention that he's going to be hard to plug and play. Like he's legitimate, leaving one, to stand a plug and play. So I've got that you don't have a problem with him anywhere. And shockingly, Brian Winnorsed, my don't leave.

He went third in the NBA draft. And I won't tell you why I know that because a player I once covered loved making my don't leave his life miserable because he said that guy went number three. He did.

He did. That's not a shot. It's done.

He was done with the player being honoured.

But what I still want to do is not the champion of the studio. The master by Tag Laptop, Bücher, Soft, Handy, Internet. He's such a master. Really? I can say that.

They can say that. Yeah, you're right. You're right. But you can't do that. Egal.

I'm sure he's going well, you know, my picks have changed a little bit, but Caleb Wilson, out of North Carolina, number four, six, ten, power forward center, King. I have heard anecdotally just from Scouts, who I've started to talk about him.

He has been a riser up the boards if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, he has things that you just can't teach, Wendy. He's very kinder. He's very raw, in a sense. But his upside and his motor is what I feel like a lot of people are starting to fall in love with.

I mean, that game when he matched up against Duke, I mean, he looked good. He got to his spots. He was able to rise up. He was able to get to the rim. He was able to defend.

I mean, the versatility in which he shows every time he steps on the court. I think that's what stands out. Wendy and Vince, I've seen this man pick up 94 feet on cards. I mean, he can sit down, he can stay in front, he can turn you over. He can really switch one through five, because he's an athletic freak might be one of

“the most athletic players that we will see in this first round, honestly, in the whole draft.”

I mean, there's so much to like about him, but I think he's just getting started. And I think that right there is why Scouts are falling in love with him, because you can teach a guy how to shoot. You can teach him how to dribble, how to get to a spot, how to make plays. You can help him work on those things.

But what you can't teach is effort, you can't teach a motor, right? We talk about AJD Bronzer, this guy's motor might be way higher, it turns on a little bit different than AJs. We talk about his want to play defense, I mean, it's want to compete. I mean, this young man has everything that you need in order to have success in

the league in terms of the physical attributes and his potential. So I definitely think he's a guy that I'm not going to say change your life. However, I think he's on that border of if he grows and continues to work and get better with his head down at grinds, he could maybe get there, could possibly get there for sure.

King, I look at his body and I look at him waiting way in 2015 and I'm like, is he one of those guys that's just going to be naturally, not gonna say skinny is the right work, but like why are we strong and still be able to keep that athleticism in that motor or do you think he's a guy that has to put on 15, 20 pounds of grown man muscle to be able to hang with the rigors or do you want to keep him lean?

Yeah, I think there's a fine balance.

“I think you do want to keep him lean because I think that his frame is one reason why he's”

so agile on the perimeter and they would have really sit down and stay in front, but I do think he needs to put on a little bit of weight, whether that be 10 pounds would have be 15. I feel like it could all look different, but I think a 10, 15 pounds will still allow him to be able to have that same fluidity in which he moves with.

So I don't think that would be too much, but I do think there's a fine balance. You don't want to get him too big because then all of a sudden his athletic traits go down. It's almost like on 2K, right? And when you put somebody's weight up right now they get slower and everything.

So you don't want to do that, but I do think there's a fine balance to where he can put on a little bit of weight and still maintain that same level of explosion and honestly the way that he puts on might even help him a little bit be able to absorb that contact thing that air and be able to diversify his athleticism. So interesting, you mentioned that because some of the comps I've seen have compared him

to Chris Bosch.

you're doing okay here, CB.

“I remember talking to him about, you know, he came in as a string bean for out of Georgia”

Tech and the whole thing when he was in Toronto was, you know, you need that weight. And so he did. And like in your three-ish, four-ish, maybe five-ish, he added, like I don't know how many pounds it was, significant weight. And yeah, if you go back and look for footage at that time, you can see that he was much

heavier than he played with the heat and he said it instantly started having knee problems. And he lost the weight back and started feeling better. And so some, you know, again, everybody's different, but I'm just telling you the story

that Bosch told me, not everybody's meant to carry, you know, a certain amount of weight.

And, you know, Victor Wembanyama, you know, Victor Wembanyama, people say, oh, add weight. Well, he may not be meant on that frame to carry, you know, a certain amount of weight. So that's interesting. At number five, Wu has Kingston Fleming's out of use to the point card out of Houston King.

He's talented. He's very talented. And, you know, it's interesting because the knock-on Kingston Fleming was coming to the year was, was that he couldn't shoot, but we've seen him this season, be able

to take over games and be able to show that he can really knock it down from deep and

he's off the dribble off the catch, it does not matter. He's shown that he's a 40% 3-point shooter. And the game I want to pinpoint is the game against Texas Tech. You know, the way that he made it look easy. And I love the speed, his end to end speed is very, I'm not making a comparison, but just imagine Wendy and Vince John Wall, the way he can get from when, end of the floor to the other, like a Derek Rose asked, right? The way they can

get from when, side to the other side of the floor, literally extremely fast. He gets to his spots. He's able to get to his mid-range jumper, he talks about AJ and his ability

“to do that. Kingston loves that. I think when you look at his last four games, his”

efficiency has gone down primarily due to the fact that number one of the defense has got a little better. And they understood that in order to stop Houston, you have the card delaying because when you look at a C-neck, who will go in a lottery and you look at a Joe Joe Tugler, neither one of them spaced the floor and shoot the three well. You know, Tugler won't even shoot a jumper. He's more around the rim. C-neck is a mid-range,

specialist who can hit some time with some of the majority of the time, it's like, and so the spacing for the Houston offense has not been the greatest, which is why in the last game against Colorado, Kevin Samson changed a few things. He flashed a big, had a lot more cutting to make the offense a little bit more fluid. And I say this to say, his efficiency has gone down because when you're playing with big two with he can't space the floor and

the spacing is bad, it makes it harder for Kingston. Flemonds to be able to do what he does best. Get downhill, create advantages, get to his mid-range pull-up, and then he shoot the three-light later. So now he's starting to have to rely on his three-point jumper

“because there's no spacing on the floor. I think that changes when no doubt that changes.”

All the next level, people space more and you'll play with better players who will be able to, and of course, also bigger. So that'll change, but I think the part of the reason why he's efficiency is gone down as a recent is because the Houston offense in terms of spacing just hasn't been there, which really hasn't been able to set him up for a success. Do you think that there is a line of separation between the top, I'm saying the top guys

because we're still in the top five, but do you think there's a line of separation between up until Wilson, and then you get here, and then you get to Keaton Wagler, and Darious A-Coff, and Burry's out of Arizona, who they really like. Do you find all those guys being in the same? Are we in a different tier of the draft now? No, I'm going to say no. Because when things that we talked about earlier was, are these guys change your life guys

or are they just, you know, multiple time all stars on that caliber? And I think that when you go down this list, there are a few names who I can throw out and say that he's not a change of life guy, but he can have a really successful career and be a potential all star. And one of those guys' names is that you just mentioned Darious A-Coff. I mean, A-Coff is A-Coff is a dude, man. A-Coff is high level. I'm not talking to a coach in the SEC,

and he said, we played against every single guard in the SEC, we played against the top guards in non-conference, and there's only one guard that is actually scared to me. And as Darious A-Coff, because he's ability to be able to score and make any read off of a pick and roll, he can make any pass. He's talking about AJ's reads. I mean, this guy might be arguably the best pass or in the lottery, and Darious A-Coff leading the SEC in points and assists

strong case. A Darious A-Coff might be the best guard, as far as college stats that has ever played for John Kelly Park. Let's take that into consideration. When it comes to stats where you are there, you're not credit Mario Chomers? I mean, look, when it comes to stats, he might have

the best season. I'm not saying he's not at the best career. Chomers played the Kansas never

mind. I was thinking never mind. I mean, I have Jackson taken out, taking out Jackson. I'm not saying he's going to have the best career, because we have no idea how he's going to pan out. But as far as one season, under John Kelly Park, he's arguably having the best season for any guard that's played for John Kelly Park. So let me ask you about Keaton Wagler at Illinois. This is a guy who at the start of the season. I'm not even sure he was in a first round race. Now I see him on top

tens and mocks. I talked to a veteran, not a college scout, a guy who's like a front office guy who goes out and once his scout's report back, and he went to see him probably three, four weeks ago, and he's like, I'm not saying he's going to the top five, but he would go in the top five

in a lot of drafts I've put together. So, you know, 65 guard out of Kansas, ended up at Illinois,

not at Kansas. So it's actually a number of players native of Kansas in this draft. I'll just point out. But anyway, what about Keaton Wagler? You know, I love the chip that he plays with on his shoulder. I mean, those guys are hard to find nowadays. And part of that was because he was overlooked in

“high school. You know, he's from Kansas, and Kansas didn't even reach out. Honestly, I don't think”

you need the one of the Kansas schools we reached out, whether that be Kansas or Kansas State. I heard Kansas State, they tried to tell him that they did. I don't believe that, right? I think Illinois is the only program. I think it's one of the two. That Brad Underwooder, Illinois, is turning out some players now. Brad Underwooder is not given enough credit for what he is doing and how he's done at Illinois and how he has, you know, gotten that program back to where it was,

back when you know, was Deep Brown, Dan Williams, Tracy, right? Like, I was a young bull, but still, I remember those two two of those three Dan Williams and Tracy, right? Because that's from Dallas. So I looked up to those guys, right? So what I'm saying is Keaton Wagler is so talented because I think he plays with that it factor that, you know what, I was overlooked. I'm going to prove you wrong. And I think he was, he kind of benefited. Now, you hate to see guys go down

and injuries are covered in Boswell, but when Boswell went down, Wagler stepped up and said, this is my moment. Like, the game at Purdue was absolutely unreal. I mean, he could shoot it off the bound to can really get to with spots. He has a really high IQ. There's not a shot on the floor. He feels like he can't, he can't take or he can't hit. I love the confidence factor in what

“he plays with. And I think that's what makes him special, right? The fact that he was overlooked”

and the fact that he knows how good he really is and how good he can be. And he goes out there and proves every single time. I think those types of players make for special guys on the next level. You know what, you know what that sounds like, Wendy? Including like the funky sort of shot for him. Sounds like Terry's Haliburton, don't it? Six five good sides can get his shot up like that was a concern from the Midwest. I'm going to admit that that a scout posted me like, yeah, I think

people are saying he can't get his shot up, but I think he can get his shot up carries the chip on a shoulder. Like all it takes sometimes is one type, one player and then that player becomes the archetype. Tyre's Haliburton is now the new archetype. And if you find somebody that's close to it, it opens the door and all you had to do is see this guy play and it's like, oh yeah, he can go and be a first round pick and that was a lottery pick and that was maybe a top five pick. It's

amazing how all it takes is one. King, do you have a favorite guy that we haven't talked about yet

that before we go that you that if so the team called you, that would you would say, hey, pay attention to him. I have a few, but I'll give you one just for time sake. Joshua Jefferson, from Iowa State, Joshua Jefferson at six nine is NBA ready right now to make an immediate impact. I mean, he's had about what two or three triple doubles on the season. He can really facilitate. He can step out and shoot the three. I mean, the improvement he's made from his junior year to this

“year has been extremely impressive. He's honestly turned himself into a first team all American.”

He's a little bit older. He's about 22. I want to say 2223, which to me, I'm not necessarily one of those guys that size away from older players because I think that some of those guys can make an immediate impact and a true impact on a winning team. And I think if somebody were to be able to get this young man in the 20s, like a contender could get him in the 20s, you can plug a man and immediately. He's ready to help you go win a championship. Then, do you have anybody that's

landing in the woods. We are looking at wounds from that duke loss. I can't believe I had to

“fix my face when he brought up Campbells or had to fix my face to make sure it stayed stoic.”

But, you know, Duke has given my, Duke has given my Michigan fan them a few heart breaks over

the course of my life. I grew up, okay, I'll tell you a quick story about Bob, I became a Michigan fan,

okay, and this will strike fear into the heart of Wendy. Go on a two week span. As a six-year-old,

“going on seven, I saw Desmond Howard do the Heisman, the Hello Heisman, against Ohio State,”

and then two weeks after that, Michigan led by Chris Weber, Jalen Rose, Ray Jackson, Jimmy King,

to want Howard the Fathy to duke to overtime at Chrysler Arena. I thought Michigan was a black college at that point. I was like, "Oh, I'm going, man." Well, I have to say that Desmond Howard, you know, who, by the way, is in Ohio, and I thought Desmond Howard, I thought that was when I watched it live, it was hurtful, but I thought it was cool that, and it's cool, you know, 30 years later,

“winner. Hi, Simon Wendy. Yes, on the coverage for it's illustrated, right? Was it on the coverage for it's illustrated?”

Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Am Charles Woodson couldn't do it because another team is not Ohioan. Another Ohioan. Yeah. What would Michigan do with that Ohio guys? All right, yeah, Aiden Hutchinson wasn't from Ohio, and we're still looking at our wounds from that. Anyway, King, thank you so much for taking your time and giving us your insight. We look forward to having you back closer to the draft. I wish we could go for some more guys, but I'm out of time. Thank you so much. Thank you, Vince,

for giving me your Michigan memories. I hope to have more of them. I can't wait. There's a gap. There seems to be, like, there was like a 10 or 15 year gap, though, where I haven't heard any of those memories. Amnesia. Amnesia. No clue what happened. All right. I thank you to Devon Jackson and Mark for our producing. Thank you for listening and watching the hoop collective. We'll talk to you next week. [Music]