The True Contenders In The Eastern Conference + A Historic Rookie Of The Year Battle

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With this story. Hello, welcome to the hoop collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing late on Sunday evening. It's almost Monday morning. Joining us from New York City where he attended the Brooklyn

That's game against the Sacramento Kings. Which actually had significant implications because it's two teams are next to each other in the tank at Thont Standing's Tim Bond Taps. Yeah, there was big tank thont.

Stakes at play in Brooklyn tonight.

And everybody at the arena was watching Duke Yukon. I mean, unbelievable ending that we saw in that game. Absolutely. Joining us from Oklahoma City where he watched the thunder Take another team down in clutch time when they beat the New York

Knicks on Sunday evening. His band McMahon. How are you partners? I come to you from the green room for musicians who play concerts here. At the paycom center.

We got all you can see behind me. You can see behind me. It's awesome. Good. Tars behind you.

“I was wondering why the lights keep changing.”

I guess we got some mood light. There's guitars. There's like very springy instruments. Brassful forces in there a couple of days ago. Listen, they got loud.

All kinds of percussion keyboards. And it's kind of fitting because the old New York Knicks were on the floor tonight playing the blues. Playing the blues. And Mike Brown got a quite a heated technical foul.

I thought he was up. We close to to get in talk. Yes. We all saw you on television watching him. Trying to get a little ear in there.

I'll tell you what. Playing the hits down the stretch of the game was she going going crazy and clutch time like we've seen many. By the way, isn't Jim Dolan isn't the blues. Isn't that what his band plays? Maybe.

Maybe. But there was. By the Nixon. Mike Brown called him out. Said that the Nixon's been to much energy on the referees tonight.

“Boy, I'll tell you what death taxes and the visiting coach commenting on the”

official. And I couldn't get a straight. The feeling I got, I couldn't, you know, Brunsman was being politically correct. I think Brunsman was.

Was. Per carb. About calls he wasn't getting more than calls. That Shay and the Thunder were getting. But okay.

Yes. So free throws for Shay was 16. Brunsman had four. However, and I guess if you're a Nick's fan, you'll. You'll disagree.

I didn't feel like the fourth court. Like, you know, Shay came back with it with six and a half left. And it was a two or three point game. Two point game. Yeah.

Did you feel that there were controversial. Shay calls. No stretch. I don't. I mean, in the middle of the year.

Yeah. Mike Brown basically. He said, she's the best in the league. That kind of gamesmanship. Would you say gamesmanship, foul, being whatever.

Basically, when there's contact.

Shay is very good at one drawing contact and to make. Sure. That contact is noticed. Shay really. He didn't shoot a well at all.

I can Chicago that night. And again, the Thunder pulled away late. He didn't shoot a well for three and a half quarters tonight. And then the fourth quarter. You know, was it MVP closed by him?

The thing about the MVP is that like. When you have the conversation, the comparison comes up and. And, you know, what ends up the, you know, for decades, the conversation devolves into your. You're trying to put down one guy like. Yeah, I'm not trying to do that.

I know you're not. How. How what my supposed to watch Shay in this game do this for like the 17th time this year. And not like just be like my God. I mean, again, if.

If Victor has like seven jaw dropping highlights a night and Shay. It just comes in and just drips people's hearts out like I don't have to say. Yeah, we got to say. You can talk about the expression. Well, that and you could talk about the rest.

I want if you're if you're a Nick fan, however. Jalen makes a bucket with 447 ago makes it 97 95. The next time the Nick scored a field goal was when Jalen hit a bucket with just under a minute to go and by then. It was 109 to 98. Yeah, like they went on a 12 to 1 run when the game was in the balance and much of that was Shay either setting up shots or making shots.

Well, what happened was Carl Towns was actually having some success. They were getting a small guy in the post. They were throwing it down. He actually made a couple of baskets.

Which you know, tonight was one of them for three quarters.

“He was two or two from the floor through the third.”

Right. So they start the fourth quarter. They start big leagues switches. They're throwing the ball to him in the post. He makes two or three baskets.

Then they bring in Caruso and they put Caruso on him. The same way they put Caruso on women Yamma. And then Joker and game seven. Yeah. And look, Caruso fights the guys in the post.

And Caruso essentially playing defensive center down the stretch of this game. And Caruso is guarding towns. So when they want to go to the towns. Bronson pick and roll. The thunder will like go ahead.

Like we're going to switch it. Yeah. And Caruso is fighting. There was one moment late in the game. The game was already decided.

But there's one moment late in the game. Where I think Bronson took a shot. Maybe it was in. I know we took a shot. And Caruso is right there with towns for the rebound.

Town says 18 rebounds in this game. I'm not saying he wasn't rebounding. And they both go for the ball and Caruso tips it to a team.

And wins the rebound basically.

He's like, I'm giving up six inches. Five inches. It's just a definitional. Alex Caruso. Right.

And he looks over at the bench and flexes. And it's like, you know. Yeah. It's why the entire league went insane when the bulls traded. Yeah.

I hope Jay Nive is doing okay. There's some stuff on social media that he's posting about that. Well, you know, I don't know. I don't have any insight there. I just want to, you know, as long as we're mentioning the balls.

You know, Caruso. One cat didn't mention that he. He would like to get more post touches when he's got a size mismatched like that.

And I asked what's and was preventing him from getting those touches.

And he kind of said, well, you know, just the game plan. What we're trying to do offensively. So he, but he made it clear. He'd like to get more post touches. Just in case you guys were wondering about that.

But, you know, Caruso obviously his, his values primarily. Just he's one of the best most versatile. Most disruptive defenders in the NBA. But tonight. Look at his, he made, he was, he only made two shots.

But two or four from three point range. I, it's good for Caruso and to see some go down. It's good for Thunder fans to see him hit some threes. He's been going into tonight. He's been 17% from three point range after the All Star Break.

And I do believe, come play off time.

“You know, I think opponents are going to.”

Make Caruso prove that he can hit threes. And, you know what, the guys played a bunch of big games before. Multiple champ and ship rings. I don't doubt that he can hit him when they count. But I think that he's going to have to prove that he can.

Yeah, the, the next fans were not thrilled that Muhammad Diara, Diara didn't play almost any minutes in this game tonight. But I, I'm not sure that modiara warriors out there that he's going to stop Shea. I mean, they have elite wing defenders.

They'll be stopped Shea. Well, and again, they, like, Shea, I think at one point was three or 13s, at least four or 14. Right. And he just got it going down the stretch.

I mean, they guarded him very well. He was getting to the line, but they guarded him well. The vast majority of the game. I, you know what? I say that.

When he was four, 14, I remember thinking four or five of those were like Short jumpers or mid range jumpers that are tend to be lay up type of shots for him. So some of it was he just missed some shots. Usually hits.

Um, but he, he was at least kept under wraps for the majority of the game. Just, not a last five minutes. Well, and then when the game matters, he scores a assist. Yeah, he scored a assist at a 40 consecutive points. Like that's, that's, that's the deal.

Okay. So they go to, they go to towns three or four times in the post. He gets some baskets. And then when you're in crunch time, they go to the Brunson towns. Pick and roll.

Are they supposed to go to straight towns post up there? Because you're not supposed to have Brunson in the, I mean, I mean, I, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just, I'm just trying to diagnose what, what's being said there. Do they, do they not want Brunson to operate in the pick and roll?

“That's how he's one, like, he's won them, like, 75 games the last three years doing that.”

Yeah, I, I just, I just, I just, no cat would like to get more post touches. You know, how exactly those material eyes, he didn't delve into specifics. I think anytime he was a competitive game in the closing minutes, and you don't score, people are going to be frustrated. I, I think that's all it is.

Yeah, I think that's true. You know, the thing about the next, you know, they, they played seven sort of easy games in a row.

Charlotte and Oklahoma City and they lost and that, that looks bad.

You know, it's just, you know, the next, I've said this a couple times throughout the season. You look at the checklist of what you need as a championship team. They check a lot of boxes. Check a lot of them. Are you, are you picking them to beat Boston?

No, that's what I'm saying. They, they check a lot of boxes, but not enough boxes. Yeah, look, the next, like all these teams in the east at the top are good but flawed. So you could say about Detroit. So you could say about Boston.

So you could say about the next. You can say about the calves. They're all good. They're off-lied.

“I think as of right now, we would all pick Boston.”

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Sign up for activate now. What are the Celtics flaws at this point on a day that Tatum had? What he finished with 30 whatever. Jason Tatum. So Jason Tatum has really struggled to tune the ball.

Coming in today, he had a great game. No, Jaylin Brown. No Derek White. Charlie.

Charlie playing second half of the back.

This is a potential first round series. Could be. Charlie had a really intense game on Saturday night with Philly. We'll talk about that in a bit.

“But obviously the Celtics down a couple guys.”

They're on the back to back Monday night in Atlanta. See what happens in that game. Another potential first round series for the Celtics. But Tatum had struggled. He'd been under 50% every single game he had played.

So far. And so going 12 for 23 had 32 and eight. Eight assists. No turnovers. How does it say?

Eight assists. No turnovers. 12 23. Five of 10 from three point range. I mean, 32 and eight efficiently with no turnovers.

When they had their. The guys who've been their two best players all season long. Not in the lineup. Yeah. I mean, for him to have it.

It was a great time for him to have a game. We'll show you a lineup. Baden Richard had one of his games. Yeah. Baden Richard is a hell of a player.

“But look, if you're if you're if you're poking holes in the Celtics.”

Right. One is that Tatum to this point has not had his usual level of burst. And pop athletically, which is totally understand a book. Come and off to the Achilles, but he has come back. You know, like I wrote about last week, he's playing with a 31 usage.

Like he's right back to being. Jason Tatum from a usage standpoint without really. Having the efficiency to go with it now today. He hit shots, which has been a welcome change. Like I said, if you start shooting 50% from the field again.

Celtics are going to be a really good shape. But look, we saw the Celtics last year. Loose to the next by sort of falling into the three point heavy. Don't really get into the paint. Sort of the the tropes that have ended up costing them at times in the past with this.

Jason Tatum jail of brown and blood group. And they don't have. Jew holiday. Chris, that's for Zingus Owl Horford. We'll coordinate to fall back on this year.

Right. You're going to be asking guys to play roles that they haven't played before. However, they're they're they're they're front three guys. And I'm going to say front four because I'm including Richard. Sure.

Sure. They have been there. They all done that. It's pretty pretty. Yeah, they've all been there and they've all done it.

None of these other teams in the East have. And I'm picking them right now to win the East. But I don't think they're certainly not an unassailable favorite. We've given conchanical a straight steady. Heep of praise for month's on end and rightly so.

The games that are coming up are going to be chips on the table games. There was a chip on the gate table game today. And he had a stinker. Yeah, and he wasn't great against Philly either. Which is fine.

I'm like, I'm not dumb. I'm just saying like. Yeah, and he was rough and he was rough Saturday night two. To your point three for 14 from the field Saturday five for 13 on Sunday. And two games that obviously if Charlotte wins both those games,

we've got to maybe get up into the top six now. You know, it's looking more the other way. Let's let's take a look at the at the sort of the middle of the the midfield. So if they say in F one bond terms, like the midfield is what they call it. They say it in F one and they say it in in the Premier League signings where Tottenham is where.

Tottenham has a midfield. Dreaming the midfield. By the midfield.

Tottenham is about to have their third manager in six weeks.

How about that for? It's not great.

Yeah, I mean, I'm surprised that that hadn't done it yet. I've had an interim guy. Seriously, like the Vex had 14 coaches in six years or whatever.

But that's you would never have.

I'm very likely to happen because, but you know, and obviously, and in. In European soccer, you get. You get to motive from the league, which is what Tottenham's on the verge of my team. That's neither here nor there. But looking at the midfield, two teams I want to talk about.

Well, I guess three because Toronto, you know, I got to give Toronto credit.

“So Toronto played Orlando in a fairly important game this afternoon in Toronto.”

And look, the game is in Toronto. It's Orlando and the Raptors. It's not. You know, it was going on during that Michigan Tennessee game. You know, you had to be a pretty hardcore fan.

But let's just say this, Tennessee put up a better fight against Michigan. The point is Orlando is, you know, a couple of days ago, they were in 10th. And they're only not in 10th right now because Charlotte had a bad weekend and so did Miami. Miami lost to the Pacers on Sunday.

And Miami is routinely giving up 125 to 140 points.

What happened to he culture? Put the paragraph back in the paint for those 83. Listen, set that part aside. All, all BAM has been saying for the last two or three months. Is I don't want to be in the bleep and play in.

And some former fashion over and over again. And I'm sorry, BAM. Looks like you're going to be in the playing. Yeah. Listen, the good news might be that one of those teams has to win the 910 game.

“Somebody's got to win the Florida State Championship game.”

31 to nothing is rough. So Toronto and, and Orlando are in a dog fight to avoid the plan. The calves have pretty much solidified that they're going to be the force seed. They couldn't New York come in. But we know the top four are going to be five through not through 10 is loose.

I don't really think Miami or Charlotte are going to come up there. But Orlando is fighting to stay out of the plan. No, Orlando is fighting to stay out of the 910. I apologize. Well, Orlando.

Yeah. Okay, the point is this was a big game. This was a big game. Okay. And I know Orlando is not 100% healthy.

But by the way, neither is Toronto. Toronto is missing some starters. And this game. Yeah.

I mean, I mean, I'm 52 and gave up a third one.

Nothing wrong. We hadn't got to that point yet. So the. Well, it was good there. Well, let's get to the important.

I'm setting it up. But, you know, I hadn't.

“Let me see what the freaking final was because it was 52 points.”

All right. 139. 87. And what did Moses say after the game? I mean, he did the, hey, put this one on me.

I didn't have my team prepared for the physicality. You know, how they show the before and after photos of presidents. Like, this is what they look like when they were elected. This is what they look like after four years. Jamal, mostly that.

He's getting more white hairs by the. By the week in that beard. He looks like a Florida resident. But, too, when he says, I didn't get him ready for the physicality. That is the most indirect way to say my team is soft

that I've ever heard. Well, he's he's blaming himself for it. I mean, that's an old Rick Carlisle trick. I take the blame and, well, you know, calling a team out. Well, Palo Bancaro was horrendous in this game.

horrendous. 314. 5 turnovers. Just not getting it done. Not getting it done.

Dude, they are they squeaked out a win over the Kings to snap. What I think, what was it? A 7 game losing stick from not mistaken. Yeah, and then they won by four. I mean, they are a squeaking out a win over the Kings away from a really long losing streak.

And to squeak that out and then followed up, I losing to 52 points to go up a 31-0 run and the throttle is a solid team. But like the, it's not like the rapper has been rolling. That is it embarrassment. Back to going up a buck 39 to a Toronto team that's not a great shooting team.

I mean, it's, it's, it's an indictment. It's not great. And it smells like quit. It doesn't, it doesn't smell good. That's for sure.

And, you know, I mean, this weekend really, like we came into the weekend. And, you know, you're saying Brian, how bunched up these from 5 to 10 is. It's not really that bunched up anymore. I mean, with, with Miami having this just absolutely awful loss to Indiana on Sunday night with the Hornets. Have a two games that could have been wins for them.

Home against Philly on Saturday night, and then again, boss was really good.

And you drop up those games. Those teams are now with 36 losses.

“And the sixers and Hawks are 33 and the rapters are 32.”

Like it's, it's much more likely now that those three teams are fighting for 5 to 7. And Miami or Lando and then Miami and Charlotte are trying to go from 8 to 10.

I always want to talk about Miami.

And the last couple weeks, Miami is giving up 136 to the Hornets in a loss. 134 to the Lakers in a loss. 123 to the Rockets in a loss. 136 to the spurs in a loss. They beat the calves.

Then gave up 149 to the calves in a loss. And 135 to the Pacers in a loss. Like I'm sorry. Miami is an absolute defensive debacle right now. And it's stunning.

So the heat as we're recording is the heat are in 9th place. On Monday night, they are hosting the team I'd like to talk about. This seventh place Philadelphia 76ers who have 1/6 of 8 games. And on Saturday night, Tyre's Maxi came back from injury. And for the first time in two months, Maxi in bead, Paul George, all in the lineup.

And Kelly Ubrows back, who I mean, Kelly Ubrows become an important player for them. And he'd been out for weeks with the knee injury too. Kelly Ubray, I mean, I know he's an imperfect player. He's an unrestricted free agent. Yeah.

So it was going grimes. There's not exactly like, and this isn't about him. It's with the 76ers. I mean, there's not exactly a ton of available two way wings. Oh, peace, peace.

I mean, remember a couple years ago, Kelly Ubray was a 20-point per game score in Charlotte, who had no market at all. He had to take the minimum.

“He's tucked the minimum from Philly and he didn't sign, I think, till September.”

I remember I talked to a team that I thought was interested in him. And it was like July 2nd or 3rd. And he didn't have a place. And I talked to a team. I said, "Hey, I used to still interested in Ubray."

And the GM was like, "Yeah, Kelly's going to have to try again next year." He was slightly what he said. I was like, "Wow." Yeah, I mean, he's completely rehabilitated his career. And turn himself into a really solid, dependable role player in Philly.

So by the way, like all of a sudden, they're like eight-ish players deep. And kind of potent. I mean, they've got as much star-power as any team in the East. If they're all healthy, it's a big hit if and they have been often. It's impossible to count on.

It's impossible. We were sitting here at the All-Star Break coming out of the break. Yeah, Joel and Beads sideline. Yeah, Paul George shortly thereafter that around then. Get hit with this 25-game suspension.

Maxi then gets the freak injury on his finger. Ubray had a knee-spray and had a freak collision. He heard his knee. Like, you looked at him at that point. We sat on the pod.

We're like, "Look, these guys very likely they're probably going to be either in the 9-10 or hoping to avoid the 9-10. But if they're down there and they're healthy at the end of the regular season. And they got to win two games.

They could be a team that could be a problem in the first round for somebody.

If they have everybody available. And now, not only are they in that spot, they're a game out of fifth. And by the way, if you're the calves, if you're the nicks, if you're Boston. Like, I'm not saying that Philly's going to beat any of those teams. But to your point, man, if they're healthy going into the playoffs,

I don't want to see a Tyrese Maxi ball and Beat Paul George healthy team in the first round. Like, that's a lot of star power and a coach who's obviously in Nick Nurses. One of the title, one a lot of playoff games, like, it's not an easy draw. So I didn't see the game on Saturday.

“Bon times, I think you were watching it.”

I was. So those three, Maxi, George and Beat had 81 points, 26 rebounds, 12 assists. I don't even think they sounded like they didn't even play that well. I thought it was actually played pretty damn well.

Well, yeah, Maxi was good. I mean, Charlie, Brandon Miller came out like an absolute human team.

The human torch, I think he had 16 in the first quarter and eight.

Charlie jumped up by 10 or 15 and from like the end of the first quarter until midway through the fourth. The six was kind of just kept shipping away at the lead. Eventually, got ahead. Then Lamello made some shots late. Look like that might be what would get Charlie at the win.

And then the final 90 seconds. He had a couple rough plays. Paul George to all the beat and Tyrese Maxi. He got fouled on consecutive possessions by the Hornets. They made their free throws at least sort of and I think they went four for six.

And Philly ultimately survived with a huge win. But if they could beat, if they could beat the heat Monday night,

And they on Wednesday and at least as should say in Washington. But it would give them a real opportunity to get out of the plan. And if there is a team that needs the weak off to make sure their guys are ready to go. It's the sixors. Like again, that this is not a team that needs to be playing extra games.

True. If they could somehow get to fifth or sixth. You know, and get that weak off by the way. We've mentioned this a couple times. The fact that Philly has roared back into the picture.

It makes those two games between Cleveland and Atlanta.

And the third and second of last games are the season.

Quite fascinating to see what the calves do in those games either.

“Do they try to stay ahead of or leap frog the nicks and win those games?”

Or do they potentially try to make sure they stay in for and possibly also. Avoid getting Philly if things line up in a certain way. It's going to be very interesting to see how the calves handle those. The calves potentially could have Atlanta. Detroit Boston slash New York.

Or Philly Boston slash New York. Then possibly Detroit. Which would you pick if you could pick? No, no offense to anybody. All I will say is.

I mean, you can draw that up if you want. I will I will go back to 2014 when the nets. Totally chickened out of playing the Chicago bulls in the first round. Tank their way into playing the Raptors in the first round on purpose. Because the year before Joe keep no on one leg hit beat.

The nets by himself, which is what led to the Kevin Gardett and Paul Peer straight. And then the nets played a hard fought series against the heat and lost in five games when the heat were healthy. And in the conference finals when I think they were a better team than Indiana that year. Drainway was playing on one leg in the series once seven games and the nets might have made the finals.

And I always bring that example up as a as a reminder that yeah, you could try to game out the playoffs to win around or to win two rounds.

But to me, if you're good enough to win, you don't need to try to mess with the matchups to get a more favorable matchup.

“You should just play who's in front of you.”

So Atlanta, so Toronto was undefeated against the calves this year, but all of the games were over before Thanksgiving. Doesn't mean that they wouldn't do it again in the playoffs, but like the calves are vastly different team. Atlanta has the hardest schedule coming in largely the only play one tanker. Because they have just played them all and just played them all. My prediction is Atlanta will be in the plan, but it does, it does come down to those games.

Like what are they going to do? Atlanta and Philly out. No, I think Philly will be in the, I think Philly will be in five or six. That's what I'm saying. Which is right out of the plan.

Top six. Oh, out of the plan. Yeah, I think Toronto. Yeah, I think it will be top sixes in the other way. Toronto has some tankers on that schedule.

They've got Brooklyn, the sack and the Grizzlies. They don't have a land drive.

“Well, if Toronto had lost today, you know, because Toronto has two games with the heat as well.”

Where are they where he put them? Listen, man, that's what I'm saying. Like there's all these tankers and then there's the sad state of Florida. Like these Florida teams are disasters right now. Well, I will.

Let me just say that because we talked about Knipple going four of 16 over the weekend. Um, Lamello just do. I just want to. Lamello was eight of 30 from three. Yeah, and Lamello, he got hot there in the fourth quarter to kind of.

Give the hornets a chance to pull it out against the sixures, but it was. I've had to dial way back on my. Lamello criticism this year because he has been a massive factor in Charlottes turn around. That was overall wet fort of a performance, though, against the sixures for him. Yeah, they had a big weekend in Charlotte, and they just didn't.

They didn't get it done.

Well, like it's worth remembering the hornets are basically played one real game.

The bell is your tire career, right? If I'd won. Well, they played two playing games. They got blown up. Okay.

Well, sorry. Didn't two. I forgot about that. Did he play in both room? He played in one of them at least.

The point is they have played games on the half. And they don't exist anymore. They can slow up back. You know what? That's true.

So this is, you know, that was a huge. This was a huge weekend for them. And like, you know, like Saturday was a great game. Like, I don't think they really think they. No, as it was great game.

Torch the game. No, it was sixures shooting night. Lamello had a bad shooting night. Yeah, sixures pulled it out in one. Like, but it was a great game.

But these, this is all really good experience points for a young team. That's had a great turnaround. And it's got itself in a totally different place. And we ever expected they would be in. And these are the growing pains that you would expect them to have.

And, you know, I hope they get into the playoffs.

“Because I think it would be awesome for a young team like this.”

To get in the postseason and get some experience. And like, look, the way they play with the speed they play with. They get up at the athleticism.

They have, you know, if they get to try to first round with Kate banged up.

Or, you know, if they get to mix in the first round. Like, they're not going to be an easy team to play. I really don't expect them to win a series. More who collected podcast after this. [Music]

Do, is there a better 2400 trio in the league than La Mello-Brande and Millicon and Knipple? I take the spurscast. Yeah, that's fair. That is fair. Separate of the players.

It's a short list. It's a short list. Who will be a better player in year after year three, Dillon Harper and Knipple? I'm, I am all in a Dillon Harper. So I will say Dillon Harper, but I think Knipple is going to be really good too.

I don't know, man. Knipple has a chance to be. I think Knipple is great. Clay Thompson asked a plus. He's a, you know, well, clay was a pretty damn good defense player before the entries.

But Knipple was an incredible achievement.

He does a lot of things other than shooting the ball. He's, he's pretty damn good. It's awesome. But I'm taking six, six point guard who's built like a tank and it's awesome.

“Like I, but again, I, this is a, they're both, I think, going to be fantastic players.”

So let me ask you, who's, who's third on the rookie of the year ballot? I have a DJ. Yeah, DJ. Is it? I don't know.

That would be my guess. I haven't studied it. I, you know, the questions are you going, who, who you put first? You put in second and then whatever. I think DJ is a pretty, I mean, I, I, I'll double check the stats.

Okay, so I'm like obviously forgetting somebody, but I, I think DJ is a pretty clear. Third behind Khan and Cooper and whatever. Or you want to have a. On to have a see.

You, you know, pretty soon there's going to be a, a straw pole.

Oh, okay. Correct. Would you consider adding rookie the year to the straw pole? Uh, perhaps that would be part of it. We'll see.

Oh, wow. That'd be great. Um, yeah, you know, there's going to be straw pole coming up. The little MPP race like the West. Well, I was trying to talk about the rookie of the year race.

He was blasted over. Oh, sorry. I just went out. Okay. He just can't take in the wheel.

And you ain't going to tell me. There's minutes, there's minutes, please. And okay. See, they're concerned. But when he hasn't played that many minutes this year.

Oh, no. He was going to rookie the year. Well, is that there is. That, that, that is a thing that is happening in, in the, in the, I mean, the pushback of the MVP thing was that Victor is played few minutes from the bronze.

Who is ineligible for the awards in Victor. Victor is not yet eligible, but trending towards being eligible. And he's played like way less minutes than Kate. Although if Kate doesn't play again. And if I go to see his and I think Victor is likely to die.

Which by the way, I think is a very fair criticism. Yeah. Well, Victor, Victor is in this is in this lane where he's played a bunch of games. We played over 20 minutes, which is the, which is the threshold. Barely.

But played like 24, 25. As McMahon has pointed out. And he came back. He came back and was playing 20 minutes and two seconds. Which I'm not criticizing him for.

But like again, like if you're, if you're, if you're trying to make a decision on who to vote for for this award. Like Victor's point the other day when he gave the slow. We about how important defense is. Obviously is a very valid point in his favor. And the fact that he is not played nearly as many minutes as some of these other guys.

I think is also a valid point. Against his cannons. Absolutely. And look, I will just, this is what I say about all the awards. I understand that the games in March and April feel more important.

“But when you are evaluating the award, you know, you should take into account the entire season.”

You know what also is a indication of value. The scoreboard winner on the floor. It's good indication of value. There's only one person in the league who has a better overall plus minus than Victor Mignama.

Wimbby in a mere 1725 minutes is a plus 630 this year.

It's crazy. I just, as I watched today, there was a, she's shamed the hit one three in this game. But there was a play, you know, he had gotten to the elbows. You know, as he does in the fourth quarter. And then they ran a pick and roll and they put towns in the pick and roll, of course.

And towns sort of wouldn't stood on the elbow and Shay comes off the pick. Stairs at towns standing at the elbow as a, okay, and takes a half step back and hits a three. You know, he doesn't run on the fourth quarter when they're winning the game. And I'm just like, the quote, that goes in my head as I watch it. I have the answers.

It just, I have to wait for the questions. So they knows all the answers to the test. Let me just, well, listen, I mean, the spurs, the spurs play Chicago Monday night. I think we could assume they'll be the tank and balls. And if they do, they'll finish up a two month stretch in which they went 25 and two.

And they'll have gained one game in the standings. Yeah, they've lost a game with Wimbby on the floor since the start of February. Right. Well, the other side of that is, you know, the thunder of gone like, you know, 20, 20 and two. And they've gained a game.

They've only gained one game. We'll go in 25 and two.

“And that's what the thunder, the only lot injuries.”

And I mean, we'll see where the straw pulls out when it comes out. But I, you know, I suspect that it'll be somewhat similar order to the last time. And if Shay does win it, it's going to be because they held off the spurs. Because if Victor, if the spurs had gotten ahead of the thunder, I, like I said at the time, I, I think, Victor'd be in pretty decent shape.

But, and he might still win anyway.

I mean, his, he's incredible.

But I'm relieved Victor's playing in that game on Monday because the PGA tours in. San Antonio this week. It's the same thing. How do you do golf and soccer talk? Texas open.

Why? Which is where is Victor coming to this? Well, I had. You know, some friends from the PGA tour asked me last week. Like, uh, we're going to buy tickets for this game.

Some friends from the PGA tour, my band. Yes. And they said, hey, it's a sure, you know, do you think it's safe to buy a ticket for this game? You know, they're expensive. They're PGA people, they're rich.

I know. They're very rich. That's true. The sun, that that's not the point. The point was they were trying to ask me what I thought Victor played in this game.

“And I assess the situation and said, yes, I think Victor will also Victor's going to play in as many games as he can.”

That's right. They can award.

He's got to make sure he gets his awards.

I just wanted to make sure that there was no shenanigans. And, you know, he's not on the interreport. When, when, when do you want to talk rookie the year for this thing? I completely do it. Yeah.

You know, you used, you pushed it off. He was you. That's it. You're the one who has the key. By the way, speaking.

Fontips. McDonald's, I want to dinner the other day. That's unfortunate. It's like man didn't pay for. Also, he didn't.

He didn't pay for it. And we went to this. We got out of here. I'm sprint or a stover there. Good.

This wonderful pizza place in NLA. Pizzeria Bianco. Well, no NBA establishment. Yes. The owner Chris Bianco was there.

And he was talking about watching the, he's a big sun's fan. He's a Phoenix guy. He's talking about watching the sun's glee team. He was evaluating the sun's glee team. He was watching, you know,

Malewatch and Fleming on the Glee team few months ago. Anyway, we get the pizzas. I was going to see. And Mcman just starts eating my pizza.

I would just know it was put in front of me. So I thought it was the one that I ordered. Did it look anything like the pizza that you ordered? I didn't know. They said some special thing.

I was just sure, given this special. It looks special. I certainly believe Mcman had no idea what pizza he's brought. That's the facts. Yeah.

Any one in front of me? I only ate like. 33% of yours in all of mine. Anyway, it was a great dinner. All right.

I just, I cut that because I'm getting died in condition and criticism from the IT department lately. So. Okay. Well, it was a personal pizza.

It wasn't, you know. Anyway, Where do you think the race is for rookie of the year? Fontams. I mean, like, I mean, I don't know if.

“If you want to open that can of worms, but I.”

I kind of would be interested. I don't know where it's at. I don't either. That's kind of why I wonder if you could. Tack it on.

Let's look at the. According to draft games. Last I'll check. Let me. Let me.

Get the. The fresh odds here.

I think Con is in first place.

But, you know, I mean, the Hornets had an incredible run.

And Con had a lot of. Con is minus 250 and Cooper is plus 190. Yeah.

“Like, I think it's close enough to where it will see what happens over the final.”

Couple weeks of the season. I mean, Cooper has a couple of huge games. That could spend things back on the other direction. Like, look, if Con had had 35 in one of these two games this weekend or both. And the Hornets had got a winner to.

That was a huge opportunity for him to push it back the other way. He did not. He did not play well in either game. Like, I think it's close enough that a couple of performances. Either way, down the stretch could be enough to win it.

Because I would say that generally. In this situation, Cooper flag would win rookie the year. He's seen his divider prospect. He's probably going to be a tremendous long term player. Obviously, I think Con is going to be a great long term player too.

But like, if it's a tie or close to it, you tend to default to the guy who's the higher level long term player. I mean, it's not a perfect comparison. But this is sort of what happened with Victor Winn and Yama. And chat home run a couple of years ago. Like, chat at a great year on a way way better team than the Hornets.

Obviously with the Thunder, but Victor had a great season. He was seen as a generational player. He wound up winning the award running away down the stretch. Con has had a better year. He's got the all-time rookie record for three.

He's played great. Charlotte has had this unbelievable surge. Cooper's had injuries. The moths have been tanking. Like, everything is broken.

Yeah, the tanking aspect of a complicated even though you would never.

When you watch him play, he's, you know, he's going full force. It's just because to me, the moths are just as so irrelevant. Like, there hasn't been any moments for Cooper to like capture any attention. Really, even though if whether he's playing harder or not. Whereas Charlotte has had all this attention.

The last time he really was able to capture national attention was when these guys played each other and Cooper had 49 con had 34. Right. Hornets wouldn't, you know, doubt the, at the end. But it was the most points ever scored by a teenager in an NBA game.

Now, he had the foot spraying that kept him out longer than the moths anticipated.

“I think it ended up being like, like, eight games there.”

Also, just for rookie there, you do not have the games played threshold. Yeah, no games played requirement for that. And he's going to play 65 anyways, but he had no games played. But like, con, it's not, he's not just like been a volume three-point shooter. Like, he's, I don't, I haven't checked today.

Have for a couple of shooting nights, but he's shooting well.

Like, he was well over 43 percent going into the weekend.

And he's, you know, he's been a good rebounder. He's been a much better playmaker than people thought. 43 percent from three on eight attempts again. I mean, it's just an unbelievable, just an unbelievable, an unbelievably efficient season from a guy coming in the league.

And by the way, doing it on a team that has had this incredible turn around has been a huge part of their success. You know, all that stuff. It all is broken in his direction. But it's close enough where, like I said, I think the ball is sort of on Cooper's racket.

“And if he has a great two weeks, I think people, my guess is in a situation like this,”

people will be trying to find ways to vote for Cooper in the end. And if he, he gives some reasons, they'll vote for him. And then, and the other thing is Cooper, so guys, as rookies who have averaged over 20 points, six rebounds and four assists, I'll just tell you since the ABAMB merger, which is damn near 50 years now. Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Luca Donchich, and Cooper Flag.

It's a very good company. Three guys who won rookie the year and ended up having decent careers for themselves. One still in process. But, yeah, so that I mean, it's pretty good company now. There's not a bad choice.

But Con is like his, his three points shooting is absolutely historic. He looks like he's going to lead the league and threes made. But just blew the rookie three point record out of the water on good efficiency. And he's like, you know, 19, over five, over three, like, his counting numbers aren't that far off. No, I mean, this is not, like, say when Malcolm Brog did one rookie the year on Joall played,

I think 32 games as a rookie. It's not normal to factor in winning in the rookie of the year. Brace, because typically the top rookies are on terrible teams. You mentioned Chet was an exception, but I'm sorry, a winby is just a different level than Chet.

Yeah, whatever.

That was like Chet's going to go.

When these, yeah, we've these are completely different level.

“So it, you know, it's interesting that how much do you weigh winning and impact on winning?”

Um, frankly, I don't care what Cooper's doing. The Mavericks weren't winning a lot this year period. You know, I went back and, you know, because it, it does, you know, you guys know, I keep thinking about LeBron's rookie year when it comes to Cooper. LeBron's rookie year, there was Carmelo and LeBron,

and, you know, the, the, the, the case for Carmelo. The case for Carmelo was that the, the, the, he was lead and that is the playoffs. And the cows missed the playoffs only by a single game. That year, even though they were like 12 or 13 games under 500 was back in the, say, you know, there's a couple of years in there where the Eastern Conference has literally had teams.

Ten games under five. Um, they only missed the game by only missed the playoffs by one. But I, I couldn't remember how bad the losing streak was, but I went back and looked. They actually had a stretch right now right at this time of the season like late March or the April where they lost 11 of 12.

And even though LeBron was putting up numbers, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, nuggets were in the process of like finalizing their playoff position. Even though LeBron was putting up numbers like they lost 11 or 12 games. And there were people going like this, go to Carmelo this 19 year old, like he can't get it done. Like, you know, um, and so it just reminds me, you know, this is, you know,

the cows weren't taking and they were trying to make the playoffs. And Carmelo had a great year and was a primary guy on a team that broke through made the playoffs. And you know, Carmelo was a three pick, you know, obviously Carmelo came with more fanfare.

“It was a national champion, but, you know,”

it was a fourth pick.

There's a lot of parallels across the board and ultimately LeBron won.

And, you know, but I don't know where that one. That one is going to be released and you see where it lands. So it wasn't the same. We had more voters back then, but the, the votes were 78 to 40. First place, so it's LeBron.

Yeah, two to one. Yeah. So. And, and listen, if there's a redraft coupon, go number one every single time. Like, that's not the debate's not who would you.

That's true. Like, you know what LeBron, I don't, what LeBron. I bet he has to. He would have had to, right? 100%.

Yeah. I mean, LeBron would go. I don't know. There were some people who were pretty dogmatic in the national media back then. Who were like, nope, I'm, I'm voting for Carmelo.

So Brian, what a god number one. Cooper, what a god number one. And by the way, to go back to an argument from earlier this year. Cooper would go number one on this draft too. Cooper would have gone number one in every single draft.

Probably over the last decade with one exception. You ain't going number one over Wibi. That's right. You know what? Maybe Zion.

Real talks like that could be like that. I think you go ahead of Zion too. That could be the sort of the defining thing. If anybody's fighting over, you know, Con and Cooper.

Yeah, but here's the thing.

That's not the, it's not the who's going to have the best career award. I understand. It's rookie of the year. So, but you, my point is the performance in the rookie year. Your tiebreaker could end up being who do you think is going to be the better long term player.

“That's what the case was for the bottom of the versus.”

It's as competitive a race as we've seen in a very long time for the award. It's also the only reason to bother watching the Mavericks for the rest of the season. That is true, which I'm not doing that much of. It's unclear. At least not in person.

Yeah. You're up at Oklahoma City. I'm going to see him when Luca comes through Easter weekend. Do I want to give myself to Luca for Easter? Is that some ball?

Well, speaking of Luca. Finally happened, McMahon. Oh, gosh. Right before the lizards come to town, man. Golly G.

Shock. Put your feet up, Luca. Your teammates can take care of this one without you. Get a few days off fresh. No need to.

No need to peel this one. The 16th technical foul. He now is he's he's one for four. I'm getting that the suspension team rescinded. I'm sorry.

Three for four. One for four as far as this suspension actually sticking now. I actually thought this one was potentially softer than the last one to be honest with you. But I guess there was contact made between two players. So.

Again, honestly. Now you've got to, you know, two more until your next suspension. You can probably get through the rest of the season. I've got to take it up to more. This is not the worst break in the world for the Lakers in Luca.

I will say. Number 17's definitely coming. You're probably the one team. Maybe. Yes.

Yeah. I mean, he, he defines. He's getting their relatively high now, which each tech. But. Well, that's the suspension costume.

How many hundred thousand ninety two hundred fifty eight thousand give a take. I think. Yeah.

If you're going to get. A one-game suspension, an automatic one-game suspension. This is pretty good time it. Because you've got the Lakers. I'm fed the the lizards.

And it's the front end of the back to back. So you'll be fresh out for the calves on Tuesday. And. And then you've got a couple days later, the thunder. A few days off the Maddox.

And that's obviously not a big game. But for Luca, you know, he's like score like 84 points or so against Maddox. You can. Then the thunder again. Warriors sons jazz.

But anyways, so, you know, a couple games against the thunder of the calves. And there's like, there's this tough little stretch schedule coming up.

It's not a bad time for him to miss the first in the back to back.

“Do we want to talk about this tanking stuff for us?”

We just let McMahon go to bed. Adam Silver talked a lot about how the incentives are going to change. In these new tanking rules. The incentives do not change at all in these new taking roles. So they've been proposed.

They disincentivized losing some. But they don't incentivize winning. We would still have the end of the season be a morass of teams at best. Not caring at all. And at worst.

You know, some of these forces could have these middle tier teams trying to make sure they're in the top 10 to. Have the higher chance of moving up in the draft. And it I just continue to be baffled by the fact that the league refuses to.

Institute some sort of idea to incentivize winning in the final third of the season, which again,

if we're just talking about this. Purely from a business perspective. The vast majority of the NBA audience for a casual perspective tunes in today after the Super Bowl. And so it's a me. So I wrote about with piece about this last month, if you could maximize the competitive portion of the schedule from the day after the Super Bowl.

To the end of the NBA files, let's say that every single game in that period of time. Every team in the league is motivated to win.

“I think that would be great for us as a company that broadcast the games.”

I could be great for the NBA to have that as a product. I think it'd be great for the trade deadline to have all these bad teams like to did this year. I've reason to get better and it would be a much better product than what we're seeing right now. Or we're just trying to avoid all these games where nobody cares and none of these proposals changed that. Yet that is not one of the proposals, which you just all wait out.

Wait, I'm baffled by Bond Tim's definition of really quick. How was this a little quick? That was about a minute. Could have been more. I also will say regardless of whatever it is, these are very complex for teams to be able to vote on them in May.

Yeah, and honestly, at least one of those proposals, I don't see why any team would ever try to make the play in. Right, you're going to have teams. I don't want to win over them. We don't need to get into details on it. So I'll say it has to be very careful about making one of the incentives. You've been a fit a lot by not being a play in team.

You're looking really careful back. I would agree. I would agree. And I think it definitely would be in play. The other thing I would say is the NBA, I think, does a lot of times ignores the fact that fans should be able to sit at a bar and have a beer and not have to have a calculus book to understand stuff like.

Where's my team going to draft? Like that, this shouldn't be that complicated. Well, hey, that is exactly right, but forget about sitting at a bar. Two guys with advanced degrees sitting at lunch on their break it from MIT are going to have to work to get figured this out.

“Sure, but beyond that, like you should be able to sit and have a beer and watch a game and not have to go not have to figure out.”

Some crazy rubric over my team is going to draft. What's our two year? This proposal that didn't make the leagues top three, but was sent to us by an executive last week.

One rule, if a team owns their first round draft pick at any point during the season of the current league year,

that pick moves to the last pick in the round or to a coin flip for last pick, if there's multiple teams. In other words, you have to trade your pick. You see, that's the one thing that's the one thing I've seen that would eliminate any benefit to losing. Yes, I love this guy. He's a very bright guy, but again, as I said to him and to you privately, the idea of having every single draft pick traded also is just it's. We don't need to get to that point. That's too much. It's too much. It's a creative proposal. I appreciate it. We don't need to have a single trade.

I need a simple proposal. I need a proposal. It's not good.

And I am dead serious about this.

“Losing teams should have to have league approval for their 10 day contracts.”

I'm dead serious about that. This, it's a new trend. I'm not going to say where it started. But intentionally signing mediocre G league players to 10 day deals and playing them 40 plus minutes per game. The league should be able to veto that.

Not, not more complex. Yes, more simple. Yes. Well, yeah, simple. You can't sign sucky G league players and playing 45 minutes.

You're making a point that's fine, but that's, you know. If the Institute of the Plan, I wrote about two months ago or a month and a half ago, it would be very simple to understand.

“And it would lead to a lot better competition when everybody tunes in to watch the sport.”

I have yet to hear a good argument against it.

One that's been said to be a bunch is we have more taking the first two thirds of the season.

I call absolute BS on that. This season has been as bad as you could possibly be from that standpoint. And again, from a business perspective, it would be great for the league if we were just talking over the final two months of the season. But everybody gear and up trying to win every game possible. Now it'd be awesome. So I've, I've just, I'm over all of this crap. It, it just continues to frustrate me that we're going to end up in some world where the league continues to make these proposals more complicated to Brian's point without actually fixing the problem.

“I actually believe that was, it was such a thud these proposals that I actually think not if I'm going, that's what I think.”

This is my proposal. I think bond temp should be the commissioner. I will say this, bond temp is not afraid to issue an opinion and to issue an edict. Yeah, I'm not sure that that his reign would last for the 30 years of David Stern, but I don't. But Adam has a very Adam has a very hard job. I think we all would agree. But that's a great area to not exist to bond temp. Listen, if you're going to say we're going to change the incentives, change the incentives, actually do it.

None of these proposals do that. For commissioner and bond temp for pro basketball writers association president, I'm going to campaign management on both those. That's a truly thing. Let me tell you something, neither one of them are happening. Let me know how the vote goes from the membership. All right, that's enough on tanking. Thank you very much to our producers to Von Mark and Jackson who spent this weekend looking to cherry blossoms in DC.

I'll bet that was wonderful, Jackson. I hope you enjoyed it. Thank you to bond temp. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to the hoop collective. We'll talk to you later this week. How do you smooth those? At tab, we're on for the NBA News, go one. On any Thursday or Friday NBA matchup, if you'll play a points leg misses by one, tab will still pay it out as a winner. Now that's something to share about.

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