Why The Future Of NBA Europe Is Uncertain + Explaining The Current Process

- Hello and welcome to the Whoop Collective podcast. We talk about the MBA, which we are doing on Thursday afternoon. We have a bit of a different show here today because I'm bringing on a special guest from Greece,

RS Barcus, who I will introduce here in a second.

But this is a European basketball version of the podcast today. As we're coming forward to the MBA and Europe, potentially either joining in a big partnership or going to battle head to head.

“And I think it's going to be determined very soon.”

So without further ado, here's our east. - Okay, as promised, joining us, I believe from the Athens Greece area, I don't know the exact municipality that you're in. - I would then dare you to pronounce it, you know.

(laughing) (speaking in foreign language) - Yes, I'll say Athens. I'll embarrass myself even further. RS Barcus, am I saying that correctly?

Please correctly say your name, RS Barcus. - Totally correct. - Okay, he has one of the leading voices in the international basketball. He is the executive, or I guess publishing director,

is that your title, Euro Hoops? - Yes, right now. Euro Hoops is an authoritative European basketball hub and it is something I've been reading. Euro Hoops and RS is a work for God many years.

I don't want to age you. How many years ago did we meet? Do you think?

- We never crossed paths in 2006 in Shaitama.

- Yes. - But we were both there. - Well, we may not have crossed paths, but we were definitely sitting with each other. - Probably, probably, probably.

“We formally met, I think it was in China.”

- I think that's right. - In China, first time. We had some interaction, but the first time that we were properly met, it was in China in the Football World Championship.

- Yes, he's referring to in 2006, one of the most amazing games I've ever covered was when the Greek national team defeated the team USA in the semi-finals of the World Championships just outside Tokyo.

- Well, let's just make this story time presented by SoFi, get your money right. - One of the most remarkable games, it was a humiliating game for the US, but the Greeks played brilliantly.

One of the, you know, it's regarded in the US as an embarrassment game, but if anybody ever went back and watched it,

it was really incredible high level basketball.

It was a combination of great strategy, great execution, great shot-making, and I recently, I recently reviewed it, so the, in that game, the Greek scored 101 points in 40 minutes. - Which was crazy for this game.

This game won games by defense. - But the second thing was this great quote that Theo Papalukas had after the game, because the Americans were behind by, I want to say, it got to be about 12 or 15, maybe even 17.

And LeBron, Duane Wade, Caramel Lanterny, tried to come back and it fell short. And Papalukas was saying that, you know, they were aware that the Americans can come back on them. And so his quote was, I think,

and it may not be exactly right, but this was the general quote. We know the Americans, they can come back in the States,

“I think you say the game isn't over until the fat lady”

she come outside. And I love this quote, because it's not quite right, but it's sort of indicative of the way that team operated. - Okay, it was all the bit the most in translation, you know, from--

- Well, I don't speak Greek, and I couldn't say any Greek, any Greek, you know, you know, saying something. So you know, he scores in my life. - Essentially, a Greek American player quotes introduced this quote to Greek basketball now.

You hear this, the translated version. - Right, okay, so the reason what we have you here today is that this is a, we're at a big inflection point in the future of the European basketball and has it relates to the NBA.

We have two big meetings coming up. One, the NBA owners are meeting next week in New York. And I believe coming out of that meeting, we will hear a firm direction, or at least a, the beginnings of a firm direction from the NBA.

And then maybe you could tell us what is going to happen in the Euro League. And actually, you know what, they start with this. For our listeners who don't know how it works,

is organized, Euro League, the National League's Euro Cup and the basketball Champions League may be unless you have other ways you want to say it. - Yeah, it's a little bit complicated. So I will try to be as deductive as possible

in order not to create more confusion. So we have, let's say the top level, which is the Euro League, which is a private league, who was established back in 2001. Essentially, the big clubs decided that Fibag was not

at the time ready to create a fully professional league that covered their needs. They decided to create one for themselves. Those clubs are also competing in the domestic leagues. But in order to qualify for the Euro League,

“we have you have to have either a permanent stop post,”

use may get a wild card depending the year. And also you can qualify by the Euro Cup,

which is the second tire of the Euro League.

And you can qualify to the Euro, via Euro results in the domestic league. And here are where things are getting complicated. - It's already pretty complicated, but yes, go on. - Yes, we have also the basketball Champions League,

which is directly organized by Fibag. You get qualified there only by the domestic league, there is no other way that you can get in the competition. And essentially, the basketball Champions League in a Euro Cup are already competing for the second tire.

So it's a little bit unclear how you get to the Euro Cup. And this time around because Euro League is expanding and the Euro Cup is also expanding. For the first time, we had a massive influx of basketball teams in the Euro Cup that either have one year at this

or five year contracts. So essentially, Euro League is providing some sort of stability in the second tire, and also give the second tire the chance to fight for two sports in the Euro League. And let's say in the elite of the sport.

- Yeah, so there are some Euro League. How many Euro League teams have permanent licenses?

They will never leave the Euro League.

And how many come in and out? - In a League of 20 teams, 13 are cell holders. They have permanent licenses. But it was the award that it was used. But first of all, out of those 13 teams, 13 teams,

there is Jessica Mosco, which you do the war in Ukraine, can't play, but they remain cell holders. And also, we have to take into account the fact that Euro League is now transforming the licenses to front sizes. - Because probably because of NBA Europe.

More who collect it podcast after this.

“- So, okay, so, I think the key big overarching thing”

is that Euro League is the top league. And that is where most players who come into the NBA, out of Europe, come from a Euro League team. Luca Donchich, for example, came from, he was dominating the Euro League for Real Madrid.

But he's still college basketball in Europe. So there's lots of different levels there. And there's two big giant organizing bodies. One is, you know, Euro League itself. And then the other is Feeba, which runs the Olympics

and the world cup. And they do not get along. Maybe they've made this sort of comes in and out, but in general, they have been at odds. Would you say that's right?

- Yes, but I have also to add that this is the, let's say historical context, because during the last few years, especially after a change of leadership in Feeba, which is the equivalent of Feeba.

It's the world governing body.

“I think that there is a very, very different approach”

to their leadership with the Euro League. And there are at least some very high ranking officials of Feeba are very open to discussions with the Euro League and trying to find out what way to coexist. - As the NBA began this process of starting a European division,

they partnered with Feeba. So they really kind of lined up opposite Euro League. And I remember when this really started coming to light

where basically the NBA admitted that this was about to happen,

this was in Paris two years ago when the spurs

was there, I made a joke to some of the people there.

“I'm like, who's a designated survivor, who's back in New York?”

But the entire league office basically had come to Europe

to have meetings with all kinds of stakeholders. And from that going onward, I mean, Adam Silver has discussed the concept of this going way back. But that really sort of was the moment for me, you know, sitting there in the room in Paris

that this was like going forward. And they were working with Feeba on this. Feeba officials were coming to NBA owners meetings and giving presentations. And so it sort of builds us to this.

The NBA and the Euro League have had meetings over the course of the last year or so. But I like just for the storytelling purposes of this, there's a big meeting coming up from the Euro League owners. And maybe you can tell me about that.

I believe it's at this very impressive of like all the state resort hotel in Lake Como, which I like the idea of just visualizing it. But it's going to be in a couple of weeks. And I wonder if you could tell me what you know about what

that's going to entail. It will be on the fifth of October. So yes, let's say that in the timeline of what we happen with European basketball, this is Alan Mark, the date, the exact date and the story was broken

by a traditional and very respected Italian newspaper, Gazeta de los Poles. So yes, it's confirmed that in the fifth of October, Euro League will have this meeting. But this meeting at least as far as I know,

it will be more like ceremony of welcoming eight new franchises in the Euro League fault. It's not that connected with the ongoing talks with NBA, which in my opinion, unless you also know, because of New Euro League CEO Chuseburno,

who was a part of the NBA ecosystem, until recently. I think they are continues. They're kept off the public lights. And if you ask me, considering the way that European fans, European clubs or European media react,

this is for the best.

Yeah, so basically, yeah, so what's basically happening

“is that the NBA is intending to, I think,”

go forward with this NBA Europe to start. They say in 2027, I'll believe that when they actually say it and it starts, I think that's a lot to do in a year. But in theory, it could start in a year. And basically, Euro League and the NBA are both,

and you mentioned Chuseburno, Chuseburno, who is the new CEO. He used to work in the NBA with the NBA. He just was named, I think, earlier this year. And he is basically said, I am open to working with the NBA.

But we could go it alone. And Adam Silver and Mark Tatum have basically said the same thing. We could work with Euro League, or we could go it alone. And so in the coming weeks here, maybe coming days,

there is basically probably going to be a decision

about whether there's going to be a marriage or a battle. Let me tell you a bit about it. We are, we're recording on Thursday. Yes. The word is that by this weekend, then this would present

an offer, what exactly of buying the Euro League, an offer of cooperation with the Euro League? And what is confirmed at this point is that the Euro League is waiting for such an offer, but so far there is nothing in the table.

And the fact that this offer is potentially coming right next to an NBA owner's meeting is why this is an inflection point. This is a key moment. And so the strange thing here is not strange,

but the interesting thing is that there are owners of the Euro League teams. And there are going to be owners of the new NBA Euro League NBA Europe, which just to be clear.

“And I think if you're listening to our podcast”

in the middle of September, you know this, but I'll just be clear that these teams will not play in the NBA. There may be cross games someday,

But just in case I see this happen a lot,

“people say, oh, are they going to play the NBA teams?”

No, they will not be in the same league just to be clear. I know that that's a baseline explanation, but I just wanted to say that. But there are people that have made offers to the NBA to buy these brand new Euro, these brand new NBA Europe teams.

But there are also pre-existing Euro League teams that have existed in some cases for a hundred years that have owners. And the idea of marrying those two together, whether by some sort of merger or some sort of buyout,

it's very complicated to say the least. And there's a lot of unknowns. No, it's even more complicated than you describe it, because some of those teams are clubs. So essentially there's no owner.

Right, right, which is, yes, okay. So I, before this podcast, I spoke to the NBA, and a lot of this stuff is already public knowledge,

“but I wanted to say what they're basically their idea is, okay?”

So they want a hybrid model. And a hybrid model means that they will have permanent teams

that are all, will never leave the top league of NBA Europe

just like Euro Leak has. I think 12 permanent franchises is what they envision at least to start. And then there would be four teams that could move into in and out of NBA Europe.

So this league would have relegation, but not for the permanent teams, just for those, those four teams, and it would be for one year, you'd get in for one year. And the pathways, this is just their proposal.

I mean, this is just what they're doing, but their pathways for how you would get in would be to be the basketball champions league. So that's basically saying that's fee buzz operation, not Euroleak's operation, that's fee buzz operation.

So that's elevating fee buzz with that say, if you wanna, you know, join the league, you'd have to do really well in the basketball champions league. And then a tournament of the domestic league champions. So you would take the champion of Spain

of the Spanish league, and the Italian league, and the Greek league, and they would play a tournament, and the top two teams of that tournament would also advance into the 16. So basically, you could win your way in.

- Let Michel Qionbat because this is a social public knowledge. I'm not dropping any bobs here, just for mainly the USL didn't stop there, stand up as we're in on. The fee buzz has, let's say, one condition, in the cooperation with the NBA,

and this is that 25% of the New European league

of the NBA Europe will be always open for qualification,

because this is essentially the European model. - Correct. - Right now, those means, these means for sports out of 16. So the final is the winner of the BCL of the basketball champions league,

which will qualify for the inaugural NBA Europe season, and we will have at the 15th of July and for one week, one end of the season tournament, where the third and the fourth team, the losers of the semi-finals of the BCL final for,

together with six teams from the top ranking European leagues, will compete for the tournament spot. In theory, those teams can be champions, but here's where things are starting, we get to European and to complicated.

There are many cases where the domestic league's entrepreneurs are your league teams. - Yes. - So if that's the case, we go just to the higher ranking team both.

“- Olympioco, so they the current champions of the Greek league?”

- Exactly. - And they are the current yearly champions. - Exactly. - So they would all, and so if there's 13 permanent, so here's where they, well, let me split this way.

Do you believe that, so if you have 20 Euro league teams and there's gonna be 16 NBA European teams, do you believe that if they operate differently, do you believe that the ecosystem in Europe can they support 36 top level teams?

Is that something that is in your view realistic? Where there could be 36 teams operating in these two leagues? - The short-term series, no. The diplomatic answer is, let's see what may happen.

And what history it is, is that this is not the first time

When Euro league was created back in 2001,

“for one season we had two rival competitions.”

The Euro league, which was run by the clubs and the super league, which was run by Fibba. This lasted only for one season. After one season, the two league's quarter-mords. So no matter who you ask in Europe,

they will say the United States, and if we have two leagues, it's just a matter of time for the two league's to merge. - Right, and so the NBA sales point here is that anybody can work their way up into the top league.

Low level, just like in the Premier League

in English soccer, that third division team

could rise up and eventually make it there. And they believe that this is healthy in very European, and that's not necessarily something that can happen in the Euro league. And so they like the idea of having an open system,

and that's a sales point. - And also a pretty clear path because in theory, this can happen also in the Euro league. A team from the domestic league can qualify to the Euro Cup, and then get to the Euro league.

But what we have seen in recent years is that if there's a project, let's say that it's ready to flourish, and the right will show Euro league will help it. For example, both newly created teams from Rome will compete in the Euro Cup next season.

Despite one of them clearly aiming to be part of FNB Euro. - Well, you bring that up, so let's talk about that. So there are obviously going to be new teams here, whether or not there's a partnership between the Euro league and the NBA or not, there's going to be new teams.

There's, for example, probably a new team in London, potentially a new team in Paris, for example. And they're going to get a lot of money for those teams. The amount of money in the NBA is saying that they think that they will get between $500

and a billion dollars for some of these teams.

Some people think that that's a laughable number, but they say that they have 12 spots and that they have offers on all 12 of those spots. - Okay, and I also have to add that the newest unconfig information is that London bit

can end up being one point five billion. - Okay, well, if they get 1.5 billion, I'll congratulate them for that. That would be a terrific thing. And they say that this money,

yes, some of it will go back to the NBA and to the NBA owners, but that they will use this money to invest in each of these clubs down to the youth level, that this money will largely be redirected back to investing, because this is a long-term project

and they invest in the infrastructure of each team

to build from the ground up.

Again, this is what they say. It sounds altruistic, who knows how to treat us, but this is their position. And you know, but getting back to Rome, so Rome doesn't have a top level team right now.

And two different teams have emerged over the last year. One is partially owned by Luca Donchich and that is known as BC Roma.

“Is that a team that's moving from somewhere, Ari's or is that?”

- Both teams have moved from Cremona. And I don't remember the other spot, because that's the rules of the domestic league. You have essentially to buy out, let's say, a spot, a license, a club

in order to create something new. There is no way in European sports in the domestic league level that you can create from scratch at top level team. - Right, so the other team is maxima Roma.

Maxima Roma, I guess. - And so, to all of a sudden, there's gonna be two Rome teams. One of them is probably gonna be an NBA Europe, one of them is probably not. I guess theoretically, they both could eventually qualify.

And Luca's team has lined up some big names. Just this week, it came out the Brian Calangelo former two-time executive in the year in Phoenix and Toronto. Obviously, it was a GM in Philly. He would be a part of this team.

Maxima Roma put out a big social media push last week, because Francesco Tote, I'm ignorant on Italian soccer. Would he be the messier of Italian soccer? - I have to correct you on this. First of all, it's Tote.

- Okay, please correct me. Tote, Francesco Tote. - Francesco Tote. - Secondly, he's, let's say, a good, you know. - Oh, go.

“- Yes, so, it's more important than Messi.”

Okay. - She's, she's that Maradona from, let's put it like this. - Right, so he is one of the biggest names in Italian sport, and certainly Roman sport. And he is aligned himself with Maxima,

whereas Luca Donchich is aligned with BC Roma. And so this is what's sort of going on in the ground

to like position yourself to be a part of this.

“And, you know, it is kind of fascinating,”

but I just have no idea which direction it's going to go. And I don't know how much our average NBA fans care about this, but it's, you know, and what he's described, what Ari's is describing is, you know, picture that, you know,

like for decades in America, there was no NFL team in Los Angeles. So, say that there was going to be a new league. And, you know, on spec, like someone bought the, I don't know, the Minnesota Vikings. And someone else bought the, the CLC Hawks

and moved them or planned to move them to Los Angeles in the hope that they could both get into the NFL. - Okay, I like, I like your comparison, but it's not like this. It's like getting the rights of a certain division college

or second division college in hopes

that you can move, let's say, the seat of the college and be in the top division, something like this. - Yeah. - More who collected podcast after this? - I don't want to insult universities here.

I could give some examples, but I don't want to insult universities, 'cause I'd be say, how, when you call us third, third, we call us third, right? But yes, okay, you're right, with the idea of getting promoted to it. So there's this, it's say, the question is,

there's a reason why Rome doesn't have a team, right? There's a reason why London doesn't have a team. There's a reason why Paris, Paris has a couple of teams, but none of them are very, you know, massively successful.

“And, that's what's sort of the pushback on this is,”

is that if this was such a thing that people wanted, then why, it's like the people in the fine citizens of Rome aren't aware that basketball exists, they have not supported a team to this level. And so here's where I can, here's where I can say,

'cause our reason about six months ago, I was talking to an MBA owner, and I asked about MBA Europe. And he said at the beginning, I was absolutely with all the skeptics. Everything that you may say, I would agree with,

you know, why do we think that we're smarter, then then people in Europe, why do we think that we could do this better? And he even pointed out, he goes, you know, we started the WNBA, it's been a loser for 20 years. It's now getting going, but for 20 years it was a loser.

We started the G-League, and it's been successful as a development thing, but it loses money.

“The basketball Africa League, which, you know,”

was then being poured a lot of money in two of the last decade, it's a money loser. He's like, maybe we shouldn't start another league, that, you know, that may be a money loser. But he said, as he studied it over the last year,

he's come around on it, and now is a full supporter of it. And, you know, knows that it's not gonna work

in the first year, but talks about it over a 15 or 20-year time window.

And so one of the, you know, for example, for American fans to sort of understand, I offer up L-A-F-C. This is the Los Angeles Football Club in the MLS. The MLS on the world stage is a second rate league,

maybe even third rate. The players in the MLS are not as good as the players in Europe. MLS teams, you know, they could beat, you know, some European teams in one-off situations, but if an MLS team went over to a top European league,

they would largely get beat, beat pretty soundly. The star European players come to the MLS to get big pay days at the end of their careers. At the peak of their careers, there is not yet been a top star who would come to the US.

It's considered a step down. But if you look at L-A-F-C, they were created in 2014.

Their expansion fee was $110 million.

At the time, people were like, wait a minute, there's another MLS team. This is what you might say about Rome, for example, or Paris. There's another MLS team in LA, LA Galaxy. They had David Beckham and people are not clamoring

for more soccer in Los Angeles. But people said, well, there's a ton of people in Los Angeles, and there's a lot of people interested in soccer, and if it's done correctly, it can be successful. But there were plenty of skeptical people

about needing another team. They spent $350 million on the stadium. So they spent three times as much on the new stadium than the two build, and they did on the team itself. And over the last 12 years, I just turned into a humongous success,

by the American publications, Forbes, and Sportico,

at about 1.3, 1.4 billion.

They have a great fan base. They've had some big time European star players right now, Henminsen, who was a former star at Tottenham Hotspur, one of the South Korea's greatest all-time players, is on their team.

He is, Dean's past is prime in the Premier League, but he's on their team. They'd have gotten star players over the years.

“But that is, I think, what the NBA is hoping for here,”

are these that over 15, 10 to 15 years, that they're marketing, and their operation of having fun at a game. Like, you go to a yearly game, and you go to a NBA game, and they're very different.

Now, the yearly game has much more natural energy, especially I went to an eternal derby last year, and they'll break. The loudest I've ever heard in the ring out, when somebody's in the back, they're so big.

Oh, what's that? They're so big. Oh, my God, how did you come from the two? The yearly invited me to a Greek derby between Olympiacos and Pennifidincos.

How would I do with those pronunciations? Terrible? No, very typical, pretty good. OK, which I'm told is even a higher level, not to insult my Serbian friends,

but even a higher level of intensity that happens in Athens. And I am going to try to make that happen at some point to come over and experience that.

The energy level is incredible, but the production

of the game is very different than an NBA game. And the production level of the getting over the revenue is different. When I went to Bill Gray, you could buy water, coke, zero, or popcorn.

“That's what you could buy in the arena, for example.”

And not both for abusers, which? Clearly, yes. Where are people we're getting the MADs to throw? Those were not on sale at the concession stands, but they somehow got them in there or the flares?

The NBA has a completely different offering. Now, we can debate about whether or not that's what the European fan wants. Someone going to Bill Gray wouldn't think of wanting a lobster roll or a filet, mignon, slider,

like you may be able to get at an NBA game. - You never know. - Right. But the concept was that LAFC-- and they did a great job with their fan club

and they have great things. And so, LAFC doesn't hold a candle to Real Madrid or FC Barcelona or Manchester City, or even to partisan and Redstar's soccer clubs. But the experience of going to a game

was attractive to the audience, and now it's worth a billion plus dollars. And so the concept of the NBA here is if we start a team in London, and we start a team in Paris, and we get a team from the Euroleague, like Albo Berlin,

or we get a team like Olympiacos, that even is even better because it has a history and fan base. And we say, here's how we're going to run it, that these teams over the course of 15 years may not be able to equal the Lakers.

If they played the Lakers or the NYX, or wherever the class of the league was, yeah, maybe they may be able to beat them in a one-off situation, but they're not going to necessarily beat them. But we may be able to engage a segment of Paris

or London, or Manchester, or even Rome, that doesn't exist now, and that these can be successful. This is what this owner is saying to me. And this is why they think they're going forward to this. So after making this whole presentation to you,

Eris, what's say you about all that? - Thank you for explaining all this to the European fans,

“because I have tried to, and they don't get it, right?”

We all agree that European basketball is totally undervalued. This is a very blunt truth, there is no way

to consume what's, let's say, the bottom line

of what the sports produces. When it was first reported that Eurolick, I think three years ago, was valued one billion, most of the European fans left, and said that this is not possible,

because the teams are losing money. When rain first announced that the ecosystem in Europe and Middle East, the basketball ecosystem, is worth, that there's the maximum around 3.5 billion. Some of the hits were turned,

but nobody really understood what this process meant. I think that the interest of the NBA ultimately

changing the pace, thinking much more in an American way. And we're getting ready to make the clubs front sizes, suddenly you have investors that are really interested in putting the money and putting a very low bed for them,

that can multiply by amazing numbers.

“If you want to get a front size in the Eurolick right now,”

it's something like 90 million. So this is peanuts for the man name, that this throne around in professional sports. Global, so my only, let's say doubt, and this is a really big doubt.

I'm not worried about Rome, Rome for many years had the virtue of Rome, which was a great thing. The Danny Ferrie, I think, famously did play in, so I'm not playing for the clippers.

I'm going to go play for Rome. - So my biggest doubt is the UK. - Yeah. - If the NBA managed to tear a basketball into mainstream in the UK, this will be American.

- Well, I was just in Manchester over the weekend. They are running advertisements, spurs and pelicans are coming to play there in January. They are running advertisements for the NBA games. They have a greater arena, so we'll see.

But the NBA is trying to lean into Europe, that they're putting 115 games.

“Last year, they had 88 games that were slotted for prime time”

in Europe because the hardest place to watch the NBA is in Europe. That's a toughest time game. I mean, the top NBA games come on in the middle of the night for you.

There's no way for you if you really wanted to watch a game. You'd have to upend your entire life, prime game. - I commented. - So you upend your whole life? - So you know one of the most famous slogans

in the Spanish cover of the NBA, where the NBA shoots was that the slippy's overrated on four cowards. - Right. - So that makes that a sense.

- It's no way to have it to market, to market though. But so the NBA last year at 88 games that were in prime time in Europe, they stretch prime time a little bit there,

but basically afternoon games,

this year there's 115. So they are trying to, in part of that is Amazon, the new NBA partner is more available in Europe, Amazon prime video.

And so they're leaning in to having some more games there. Plus, they're featuring Victor Wemben-Yama, they want Wemben-Yama to be a star. Plus, it helps them a little bit that time frame, helps them a little bit elsewhere.

But anyway, they're trying, they're trying to engage in European sand, but during the Paris Olympics, I had dinner with an official from the LA organizing committee. And he was about two weeks into the Olympics

and I was saying, well, how does Paris compare

“with what you're playing in Los Angeles and he goes well?”

No, they're not selling alcohol at the venues.

That's, I don't know, probably $100 million left on the table,

but we'll be selling alcohol at the venues. The merchandise situation is rough. I talked about this a lot of my podcast. I was a guest at the quality and lack of availability of merchandise.

It's not something that Americans are used to. Americans are used to being able to get merchandise on every corner at all times, have to live everybody Amazon. If you were there and you wanted to buy a Greek,

if you came there and you were cheering for Greece, and you wanted to buy Greek paraphernalia, you couldn't get it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're both available. Yes, although the YAH is a 10-o-Coupo Greek jersey,

is available in parts of the world. And it is beautiful and spectacular. And it's a great product. The Greek national teams, Jerusalem. And obviously, you're not necessarily going to be able

to get all countries, but they're like, we're going to have merchandise. You're going to have merchandise overflowing people from all of the big countries who come to US, you're going to be able to buy their own merchandise,

and stuff like that. Hospitality within the venues themselves, the venues in Paris were old. They very famously didn't want to build new venues. They didn't want to leave a scar.

They didn't want to leave rotting venues like we've seen in places. As an opinion, I totally agree with them. Because I'm not sure how the Athens games aged. Yes, not well enough.

But Los Angeles has top venues. They have supreme venues, especially for basketball, and they have multiple high-level basketball venues. So the venues will be better and newer. And they're talking about the hospitality at the venues.

So they said, that's just all going to be different.

“I said, OK, well, what does Paris do much better than you?”

They're like the logistics. This city is working beautifully. Our logistics are a major challenge. So more beer, more gear, more fine food, a lot less. A lot more traffic headaches, Los Angeles.

But this is-- It's a different mentality. When you go, when you go to the arena in Europe, you don't go to entertain yourself. If you're getting ready for a battle.

So this is a very different mentality. And in Europe, in general, sports football mainly. It's OK, sorry. I forgot that. I speak in two years of years. So it's considered, let's say, some said,

it's the opera of the people. So the tickets had to be cheap.

“The stadiums had to be big in order to accommodate”

as much people with cheap tickets as possible. Nobody really cared about concessions. Nobody went to the arena to eat. They just went there to kill the opponent. That's a mentality.

Yes. So the MBA has tried to change that. Yes. And also, you know, right now, there's a big debate for the precision tournament of Pan-Fly,

because the public in a couple of tournaments named after the late owner of Pan-Fly course.

Because for the first time, the prices in the refurbished Oaka

are coarsing there very, very high compared to what was done 10, 20 years ago. But in my opinion, this is a change that is inevitable. And also, right now, Oaka, you can get sushi. You can get this kind of concessions.

There is the whole venue is changing the whole mentality of how you approach sports. So for Europe this year, it's not just buying a high-end beer. It's also club seats, sweets, sky boxes. Yes, clubs that you would go to before and after the game.

This is not a part of most European basketball venues. It is a part of European football soccer venues. Oh, my mailing the UK. True, mailing the UK, that's right. And so they're looking to bring it into the new era.

As we sit here in early September, one year from now, what do you predict will happen? Will there be NBA Europe?

“Will it be with the Euroling or will there be this separate thing?”

And a scrap for survival? We're covering this story. And I include you in this for the past, let's say, two years. There have been many twist and twist and twist. It's very hard to predict anything.

I might be a little bit pessimistic. I don't see how we will not avoid having two leagues competing. It's hard, at least for a couple of seasons. I hope I'm wrong. But I have to add that this pessimism right now is served among many European basketball

stakeholders right now that don't believe that they offer that will come from the NBA. And I'm not speaking about buying out the Euroling or taking over the European basketball. Any kind of offer will be satisfactory for clubs, like Barcelona, like Real Madrid, you know.

And ultimately, we can debate about logistical details and about money.

But the elephant in the room that nobody has addressed yet. And I'm not talking about this podcast and talking in general is ultimately who will have control. Yeah. I can easily imagine then be a given a conception in the control of any league that they

are involved. And I can't really imagine clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona saying that, okay, you have the note. So you can tell us what we must do. Right.

I would just say, in general, the conversations I've had across the globe in the last 18 months, most people from Europe do not think it will work. And the American rich guys think that it will. I don't deserve it. There's been a lot of those types of ventures between the continents over the generations.

And some of it has worked and some of it has it. And so I will sit here and tell you and say, I don't know. I don't know whether it's going to work. I do know this. If they truly are getting these bids that they say they do, like they say they have

12 bids at this kind of money, that kind of money is so big that it's one of the things that we would say is too big to fail, that the investment is so big and they will do everything

are not full and the sliders and the wine is not sold, that it will go on until it

“tilts seeds or into the long into the future.”

But I can say with an open mind, I really don't know what's going to happen. I am interested to watch and find out and you've covered this a lot, it's your bread and butter, like what happens to the European basketball is how you are going to affect your daily life. For me, I'm able to just sort of watch from afar and have casual conversations.

Look, I have to be cynical here and say that this kind of debate brings extra value to our job and it's up to us to take this opportunity and not take advantage of the opportunity, but use it in order to let's say help, not only the support, but the whole idea of this

trans-transatlantic collaboration to something fruitful that will help basketball take

the right from the spot that they need to have in the European sport because let's face it.

“The average US-Fan can really understand the difference in European, in the European level”

interest between soccer and basketball. It's not like the NFL and the NBA. For most countries, basketball is even if it's clearly the second sport, it's another thought. I can have to be in Greece which is one of the bastions of European basketball, but this

is not a case in many other countries. All right, well thank you for your time and expertise. I really appreciate it and we'll continue to try to make our listeners and viewers a little bit more well-rounded. We strive to be basketball men of the world.

We don't always succeed but we strive to do it.

I hope to see you in Athens this season. I would love it. Number 11. We have some other things on the podcast we've got to execute before, but I know the date. Number 11.

I'm sure there will be several times. You're correct. Yes, but I know the first one. I know that one is a fixture on the schedule, so we'll see, that's about what I made it to Belgrade last year, so we'll see if I can pull it off.

Okay. I'd love to. And I will owe you a pre-game apparel spritz or something like that. Can you hear me? Close enough.

Close enough. Thank you. It's great to talk to you. I'll see you soon. Thank you for the invitation and all the best also for you and for the purpose.

All right, thanks to Aries for giving us his insight and view point. Hopefully you wrote this all the way, with us to the end, I know this was a different podcast than we had, we usually have, but it's September and this is happening now. And so that's what's going on.

“There will be, I think, some stuff that comes out of the Board of Governors meetings next”

week that involves expansion. Obviously, we'll be adding silver as opportunities to talk about, really put his thoughts on the record about the Clippers situation, which is not totally resolved yet, because the Clippers haven't accepted the situation. So there will be some things out of that, but European basketball will be a topic of conversation

as well. So appreciate you letting us be basketball men and women of the world on this episode. And thank you so much to all of our producers, Mark Jackson, Tucker, Miles. Thank you for McMahon being busy in LA today, too busy for us. Thank you for watching, listening to who collective will help you have a great weekend.

We'll talk to you next week.