Harry Jowsey: My Wedding & Divorce

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper. We call her, Daddy. [MUSIC] Perry, Jelsie, welcome to Caller, Daddy.

[LAUGH] I feel like this is like really different vibes from our normal podcasting. Yeah, it's different. Because I know it just, we're in such a different place as in our life. Is that weird?

You got married and I'm pregnant. Yeah, what are we doing? We don't know.

When, no, it was crazy, we always talk about this.

I've known you almost as long as I've known Matt. I've known Matt a little bit longer, but you hate that. You like to say, you know the same day, I'm like, it wasn't the same day. It wasn't. No, but he dropped me off when I was going to record with you.

Call her, Daddy, what was that, seven years ago? Yeah, was it? No, 2020. I was in a person, seven years ago. Okay, so six years ago, almost seven years ago?

But that's crazy. I had silver hair. Yeah. You looked like a little cherub and you were just so excited and eager about the industry.

Me. And now we're both like-- I know it could. Amazing. But the lap, okay, so you are someone who I would say aside from Lauren,

because she's obviously my best friend, but like, you are officially the most reoccurring guest on Call her Daddy. That's, but thank you for having me. Well, I almost feel like it's like you and I have had to kind of do it a couple of times,

“because I think the first time was like, whoa, these two are insane.”

It was like my very barsel day still. We were talking a lot about sex. We were-- there was a classic. I think it went viral when you talked about Bum Fluff on a girl. That's right.

Yeah, that was so fun. Oh, man, it was so fun. And we were so insane. And then slowly we progressed to like being friends off of the internet and podcasting land.

And then we would just yearly have updates together. And so we went from like, oh my god, he's got a girlfriend. And then like, there was a cheating scandal. And he has a girlfriend and then whatever. And then I'm getting married.

And now you got married. I'm pregnant. And we're sitting here almost eight years later together. Crazy. What are we doing?

I know. It's so hard. So I was looking back at our last interview. And the last time I interviewed you, you basically said, Alex, I am officially dating to Mary.

Like, I am officially dating to Mary. This is what I'm looking for. I'm done with all the F-boy stuff. And since then, you have been engaged to 20 women. I love a man with followers.

Oh my god. That's my dream. Is that so wild? I had to live in the house with him too. I cannot believe, leave it to you to be engaged

to any women at once. Like, it's also crazy because all the comments are like, oh, he only cost the brinette ghost. And I was like, I didn't, I had no idea. I don't even know what I was going to do it.

I just showed up. OK, let's talk about this.

“I will never forget when you, our TV team”

had unwell and Netflix all came together. And we were like, Harry Jossie needs a show. Guys, I'm not kidding you. We all sat around in a table. We're like, Harry Jossie needs a show.

We need this man back on TV. Yeah.

And of course, we always want to push you towards hosting,

which I think is where you're going to go soon. Because I think we've kind of-- If you have me, you can play it. But we said, we got to give him one more like-- Yeah.

Like, what's Harry's-- what is Harry's name? And we all look, we said, Harry's get married. Harry's 20 feet on stage. And so we came up with Let's Mary Harry, which is the show now that has aired on Netflix if anyone lives under rock.

Basically, using-- No, no, no, no, no, don't talk about it. OK, guys, it's a little hot in here. Let me just show you something. Your friend's pregnant.

And when it has a pregnant woman, Harry, I'm running like 20 degrees hotter. Is that how it works? Yeah, it will firm me. OK, so to picture Matt and I and bed,

he is basically an eternal neck and mittens, because I've got the house set to 61 at night. And I can't even keep the covers on because I'm so hot. What is it like that? It's a whole thing.

Maybe one day, you'll get a woman pregnant. Well, I tried. Oh, the show. We're going to get there. We're going to get there, rewind.

OK. Keep it together. OK, we're still wholesome so far. So far, I feel like nothing we've said is-- No, can I see something really wholesome?

What? OK, no, this is real.

And I would never ever say this,

because we would never have the chance to. OK, like we would never, we wouldn't talk like this. OK, it's really weird. OK, but because all the whole press run that everyone's asking me about love and what that means.

And I remember at the start of the show, before I was about to do it. And I'm thinking about what I would want. And how I-- like, what I see is love, right?

“And the only two people that I think about is, obviously,”

you and Matt and Sunny and Dre are with their relationship. But I was thinking about it the other day. That was not so sweet. No, because the other night, when we're having dinner, and Matt was telling me about the brand deal, whatever else.

I was like nothing else matters on the planet to this guy, apart from the person that's sitting across for us.

“And in my head, I was, I think I've been searching for that,”

because I'd look at you guys as role models. I was like, this is such a beautiful-- like this is everything. Like, for both of you guys, nothing on the planet matters at all. Like, he loves you more than anything on the planet.

And the whole-- even yesterday, and today, I was thinking about it. I was like, wow, anyone would be lucky to have a half of what you guys have. First of all, you're so sweet.

And I feel so happy that we have genuinely built

a relationship that is on camera, always so dynamic,

and so fun. And we can literally talk for hours. But I think what I Matt and I, when we were going into this experience with you, I remember you coming over. I need to show you.

It's a video of you with your little dog-- Was it brutal, Kai? Kai? Yeah. And she's like walking on the table outside of our house

and you and Matt are talking. And you're in the middle, basically, talking about, like, asking him, like, how did you know Alex was the one? Yeah. And I feel like we've been so fortunate to have so many really

intimate conversations with you because you genuinely

“have wanted to seek out answers of, like, how did you guys know?”

And I think leading up to this process, which I want to get into, like, there was so much that you were-- your ears were so open to everyone that you, like, respected, like, you're saying in relationship dynamics.

So you were genuinely just trying to take it all in before you went into this experience, which I feel like, not a lot of people are going to have expected. Like, I do want to talk about that. But, okay, anyone that's living under a rock doesn't know.

You basically became the bachelor, except all 20 women when they showed up on day one, got rings. It really makes it real. And I think, especially for a woman when you put that ring on your, like, oh, my God.

Like, I see it, like, it makes it a little bit more real. Yeah. So they all of the rings. And then if you eliminate them, you take the ring back. And until you find the one, let's go back.

You obviously started on too hot to handle. Did you ever imagine that your wedding would be on television? No, I don't even imagine that it would happen. I don't even think anyone believed

when we posted trailer, like, all the comments, like, this no way. No one thought it was real. No one thought it was real. Like, this guy's like getting married.

It's true because you have Photoshoped your face so many times as the bachelor. So actually now in hindsight, I get why people are like, there's no way this is real.

Yeah, because you're always talking with everyone.

Because I'm trying to manifest it. Oh, here we go. Oh, here we go. I had an workout. Oh, no.

Hold on. So you never thought it would actually happen. But then obviously you were ecstatic when you found out that someone wouldn't want to watch you get married on TV. I don't think it was more exciting to know that people

were actually there to marry me. I was like, there's no way. Did you have any hesitations, though, like signing on to do this, to get married on television? I think the biggest thing for me was I was

been worried about it. I was going to waste the girls' time, which 19 of them I did, basically. And I remember being in their house. And I was kind of going through that, like, mental dilemma, dilemma.

What's other word? Yeah. So it'd be good for you. Yeah. Big.

He's got the glasses on. He's coming in hot. Yeah. He studied the dictionary before this. But my breakdown was like, oh, I just don't want to upset anyone

all the way to anyone's time, because I basically, what you said to me before I went on is like, if this is the same old shit, like this, you're wasting everyone's time, and it sucks. And you're going to break these girls' hearts, basically, you're yelling at me to figure that.

I was thrilling and do you so hard? Like, you can't take this as a joke. And we're not doing this to just make a TV show.

We're actually doing this because we can go make a million TV shows

Harry. I'm wanting you to do this because I genuinely

“believe in you, but you have to believe in yourself.”

There's a lot of pep talks. There was a lot. You guys would go for it. So what ultimately made you decide to say yes? Because I'm like, my whole life, since I was like 19,

the first show was in New Zealand. Since I was 19, my whole dating life has been on. I had some sort of spotlight all like pressure on it. And I'm like, well, if I really want to just do it, I should probably just like dive ahead first in and have no phone

and be in there and figure it out. And then also, like, there's no bullshit like you guys would yell, you would tell me, oh, well, you do tell me. We kept you in line. Yeah, it's good.

Like, what other relationship would I have where I have so many watchful eyes make sure that I do the right thing? You had like guard rails on you. Yeah, you were like on your training wheels and we were all like steering you through the course.

I'm like texting our producers. Like, tell them to do this. Tell them to do this. Tell them to stop this. Yes, slow this.

No, you said, I think it was like, stop kissing everyone. It was like, Alex, but I want to. Okay, we before you started this, how did your friends and your family react that you were going to be getting married on television?

So much drama in my family.

Yeah. You've got a lot of family drama. Yeah, there was so much. And then my friends, I guess, were just confused.

“Like, it's a weird thing to, hey, do you want to come to my way?”

How did your therapist feel? I actually just saw him before this. How did that go? She was saying, she feels like I'm going to have an anxiety. Oh, yeah.

Okay, we'll get there. We'll get there. Back when you were starting, you were having-- There was an anxiety attack, right? How did she feel when you presented this to her?

No, I think she was just worried. She's like, we've got to have a few sessions. We're going to need to reload. Oh, did you double up every week? Yeah, I think it was a twice a week.

Yeah, I don't know what else we need to talk about, but she's like, I just want to make sure you're okay. [MUSIC PLAYING] Leading up to filming. Can you talk about how you were preparing?

Yeah. 'Cause I feel like you were reading so many books. Do you remember that? I have them in my phone. I haven't saved those--

I think you would say, brought them here to prove everyone that I read a book. Yeah, look, here's a highlighter. There was this one that really got me. It was called "He Scared."

She scared, and that's all about self-sabotage. And that one was really interesting because I'm like, am I doing that? Am I constantly fucking up? Because that's what I need to.

There was-- I even tried to read Emirata Castle's book.

“Yeah, but I think I wanted it in French.”

And also, I'm like, I don't-- Oh, okay. 'Cause I'm like, many evil, I guess. I try to figure out-- I was trying to look at myself from a different perspective

and said a POV. Oh, I actually respect that. Interesting. And if I read this, and I read late, I'm like, oh-- And then you got it in French.

Yeah. So you just kind of gave up? But I just kept it on my bedside table. In case I didn't, I'm like, kind of, I'm like, oh, wow. He's just kind of really tapping in.

But then even with Amanda before we went on, we sat down for like four and a half hours. And she grilled me on every relationship ever. 'Cause she took it very serious. Right, seriously.

Well, I think that was what was interesting. It's like, I remember you constantly calling me, being like, I read another book.

And I'm literally like, first I did it

really fully believe you. But then I will say, leading up to this experience, I was in shock with how much you were investing in yourself and you were so committed. And that's why I do agree.

“Like, I think you had a lot of people around you.”

Harry going into this experience, which I do think. It is important to just set the scene, 'cause obviously then there's chaos in the show and all of this is where everything's gonna come out of whatever. But I do, and also just so everyone knows who's watching.

I have no reason to gas you up. I could be like, you went in so blind. You looked like an idiot. We were all annoyed with you day one. It's just not the truth.

You actually were so intentional and reading. And it was shocking. And you really, every time you came over to my house and you sat with Matt and I, it felt like each time we saw you leading up to this,

you got a little bit more wise in terms of what you were looking for. But in a really cute way, Harry, you also were getting a little bit more nervous. And I remember the last time we saw you before you went off to film, you were like,

I'm nervous. Like, I'm nervous to go into this because there's gonna be so much on the line. And I feel like it's getting more real. And you were taking it really seriously.

It was really scary, even that first day.

I remember when I was about to say goodbye to Sunny, I mean, enjoy the cry. I know, I remember that's the year. It was like, it was really struggling. I can't cry for the Sunny.

When do you think it started to feel real to you? Um, I think it was the first day, because it's kind of like hazy and like crazy. They're all getting ready, like doing the fittings, whatever else just felt like another TV show.

But then when I walked down and I saw the girls and I literally got so dizzy and I like blacked out. And I couldn't, I didn't know what to do with my hand. I remember you were sweating a lot. Yeah, I was freaking out.

And then yeah, I think that was the first moment. And then the first two days fully blacked out. No, you know what, so funny, I remember in the first episode, a lot of the women before they saw you, there were some women with hesitations.

And they were like, I don't even know if this guy's gonna actually, like, is he does he really wanna do this? And it was so sweet when you walked down and you welcomed everyone. So many of the women were like,

he actually seems really nervous and he's like getting red and like flush in the face and like, oh man, maybe he actually is genuine. And it was cute to see women like see you in person and see how you were like a little jittery

and you were nervous and you were anxious. It's so scary. I also think something that really showed me that you were ready to change. You got rid of the Lamborghini.

- I did. - And you moved out of Hollywood. - Yeah. - What did you trade the Lambo in for? - I got a Range Rover, like a big one. - Uh-huh.

- What color? - It's Matt Black. - And what color was the Lambo? - Pride Orange. - Every single time you showed up to my home

or we went to a dinner or we went to a coffee or you showed up to the offices.

and I was like, get rid of it.

- Get rid of it. - It was cool. It was so fun. - It was so fuck boy. It was so over the top.

It was so noisy. It was literally loud and it was so loud visually. And it was like, this is annoying. - This is annoying. - Yeah, I'm gonna get another one.

- And I can't be like, Harry get rid of this and you're like, "No, I like it." And now, talks to me about what's in the Range Rover, Harry. - So I was like, "Oh, that's a really nice car.

Can I buy it?" And I just bought it. But there's like screens in the back. - For children? - Yeah, 'cause I was like, "Oh, if I have kids, I want them in the back."

- You're gonna be an uncle soon. - If run a road trip crazy. - I don't know if I'll let you be alone with the baby. - Yeah, I think so. - I'll drive.

- I was thinking about that one of the way, I mean, I was like, I wonder what it'll actually mean it. Probably what it's like six months old. 'Cause I feel like you guys are gonna go to a hibernation for a while, right?

- We're gonna go to a hibernation, but you will be Uncle Harry. - Please. - Now I want to understand how did it feel to know with everything you've been through in the public eye.

How did it feel to know that 20 women

“willingly showed up and actually wanted to marry you?”

- It's kind of wild 'cause I've seen some of them kind of be a little bit mean to me. And I'm like, "No but a gun to your head." And said, "You have to do this show." Like you willingly signed up.

You went through the months of audition process. Board outfits for, got your makeup and came. Like there's some of them that are already like being a little bit silly. - Oh, online?

- Yeah, and I'm like, "Oh, I didn't." - Thank you for saying. - I didn't know who was gonna be there. I did, I guess. - Sure.

- I had zero zero row influence on the casting process. I was like, "I'm so clear." You were texting me and be like, "How are we looking?" And I was like, "Shut up." I was like, "I'm not telling you anything."

- You can't be anything. - I don't know. We told you nothing. But do you think that a lot of those, do you think any of those women came for cloud?

- For sure. But it's also not even me to think that they wouldn't consider that. - Of course. - If you go on a reality show, like any reality show,

there's gonna be some sort of attention. And if it's a good show, it's on Netflix, like there's public attention.

“So I think my brain is two things can be true.”

- That's fair. - There's one pillar that's like, "Hey, I would love my life to change in potential, become an influencer or get a ton of followers, whatever else."

But also I could meet this really amazing guy

with a range over and marry him. Like there's two things that could be true. I think some people there, cloud one was a little bit heavier than others, but that's okay. - Well, I think probably they had like,

they're like, "I try to get on love Island that didn't work." And then I tried to get on love as Blonde and I didn't work. I thought we'd know what, let me audition for Mary Harry. - Finally, my way in, it's crazy. - And I hope they get the followers

that like a little bit of attraction. - Yeah, I hope so. - Did you hope that the women would come in blind and have kind of no full understanding of you or did you want them to do their research?

- Honestly, I think it's disalming if they did their research, 'cause then, oh, maybe actually no, that's horrible. - No, 'cause my brain, what I was thinking is, if they know everything, then it's like,

"All right, well, I'm already here and I wanna do it." - Oh, I see, so you're saying like, they knew everything in the research and they still chose to show up and be like, "Put a ring on this finger."

Then they were kind of accepting you for who you are. - Yeah. - And then if they were going in blind, you're like, "Let me get started." - So let me tell you about my ex-friend test.

- Yeah, and I, let's go back to the very beginning. - Really? - Oh, okay, okay, I see. Do you feel like throughout the process one proved to be more successful than the other?

Like the women who knew you because they did their research or the women who had been blind?

“- Honestly, I think that nothing could really prepare you”

for that environment, and I think we're all learning and trying to figure it out the whole time. So I don't know, but they also, even the ones that were blind, they were curious, 'cause they started asking questions

like trying to figure out like, "Why are you saying that? "Oh, why is he talking about like..." - Oh, right, 'cause they're looking at the other women like, "Wait, why? "What do you guys mean?"

- Yeah, like did he have a bad tweet or something? - Oh, you're like, "Oh, bad tweet!" - You could go, "Oh, bad, a couple of years up." (laughing) - Okay, being engaged to that many women at once

is a lot before that, like you can be honest, we're like, "Let's go back to the fuckboy days. "How many people had you ever juggled on a roster at once?" - I think at least five. - Okay, I feel like that's a good hefty roster,

but like, not.

- No, I remember when I saw you first,

I would be like three days, but it would be like recurring guests. - Right, right, no, no, no, I can pinpoint. - Yeah, don't. - Yeah. - But I don't think, that's a lot, that's a lot of people. - That's a lot, but yeah, I feel like a roster can't be too

because then you're gonna get feelings for one. I think a roster of three is like a healthy roster.

- But then, it got me to hit us with like a 10. - Yeah, no, no, no, 10. - No, 10, maybe. - Maybe. - Did you, you wouldn't. - No, I wouldn't, I didn't have the time.

Like, I felt like, 'cause you know what, it gets hard when you have a roster back in the day. And again, this is normal, this is not being a bad person, but when you're single and you're talking to people, like, I feel like I look back,

and it's really hard to, I struggled with remembering stories that I would tell some of these men. So I would literally be like, "Oh, my, did I already tell them that story?" And I would type in a key word into my phone

and be like, "Oh, no, I told that one to Sean, "but I haven't told it to James yet." 'Cause you're getting your life mixed up a little bit, right? - I would fuck myself up 'cause I, on my old podcast, I would tell stories about what's happening.

And then it text me like, "Why would you say that?" - Yeah, yeah, the podcast did me into, don't worry. We both live there, we learn our lesson. Okay, we're gonna go back to the beginning of the experience. You said, at the start, if this is up to me,

I mean, I'm gonna marry someone toxic and we're gonna have a terrible public divorce. - Wow. (laughs) - Wow. - Let's unpack this. - Okay.

- Going into filming, were you attracted to toxic? - I think, if I wasn't, I would bring it out, for sure. I think one of the things I have figured out my therapist is with my parents' relationship 'cause it was so much friction.

That's what I thought was growing up.

“Like, that's what I needed, or that's what's right.”

And I guess the best thing about these shows and having so many people have opinions is you kind of start to self-reflect a little bit. And I guess before, let's marry, I was really trying to figure that out.

Like, why am I always attracted to the chaos?

Like, why am I always, if I don't find it, why do I create it, it's so stupid? So I guess that was my thing is I would just start to make it happen. - Without getting too into it, I think

and why I've always wanted to emphasize this as much as your comfortable, it's like, I think that your upbringing was a lot to say the least. - Yeah. - And it was very volatile in moments. And so I think that you are this really funny guy

and you're charming and you're good looking and you're outgoing and you're a jokester. Keep going, you're a jokester. And so I think sometimes you don't lead with your emotion and you kind of hide your emotions.

And so it can come off like you're being really, I don't know, like in moments you can feel like,

“oh, he doesn't even care, but I think deep down”

you can push people away or do things that are really in the moment feeling toxic because you're actually just getting freaked out if you're getting too close to the person, which is psychologically, that is a complete normal thing

that people do. - That sort of was, yeah, the thing is with Georgia when we spoke again about it, 'cause we came back together after a couple of years like after my dad passed and we were like,

oh, let's clear the air. She, that was the biggest thing she's like,

I just thought you just never cared

'cause you're just like always laugh about everything or like wouldn't take it serious. And that was also a big turning point in my brain as well 'cause sometimes you just need to hear that. - You do because I think it's such a defense mechanism

for you even whenever we're having a serious conversation and I know you're always giggling and then I'll be like, okay, but Harry, like real talk and you're like, okay fine, I think you get really uncomfortable sometimes with going deep and it takes the right person

to get you to go deep. And then once you do go deep, like, you're a very emotional ball. - You're a big ball, but you're a big emotional ball.

“- That's why I'm scared for this show to be honest”

because it's so vulnerable. And I think we got lucky with the girls to make it like such a safe place. - Yeah. - For everyone to be able to make everything comfortable

but that's why I like leading up to I've been so anxious because it's not like I'm playing a dickhead or like being like how I was in these other shows. It's like, oh, this real-life stuff I dealing with my emotions with my family

and then my dad and then having my family involved and no one else to kind of put the blame on, like whatever mistake is-- - That's such a good point. Like when everyone watches Let's Mary Harry

for the good, the bad, the ugly, you have to know that in almost every other reality show that Harry has been in prior, you have played a character to some degree. And for this one, you were completely stripped down

and-- - Couldn't do anything about me, you know? - Yeah, you were just yourself. - Yeah. - Let's talk about Georgia, though.

For anyone who doesn't know, that's your ex-girlfriend. - Yeah.

- And we basically formulated the show to make sure that

the decision wasn't 100% up to you when came to choosing who you were choosing because we were like, "Leave Harry to his own devices." And we're gonna just repeat the patterns. It's like helping a little bit on the journey.

And one of the people that you brought in, you brought in some of your closest friends,

is your ex-girlfriend, Georgia. That's kind of sit on this panel to watch you

“and help and guide you, which I think so many people”

were shocked by, what was her reaction when you asked her to do this? - You know, I'd mean Georgia have such a good relationship now that it was funny, like she's like, of course, like why would I not, like she laughed.

But then on the other hand, I was thinking about it. Like, what a brave thing for her to do to just walk into a house of like 20 girls that are trying to marry her ex. And also to put everything that would been through

to the side to be there. So like hats off to her, but I know in the casting process, I remember when Netflix called me, I said interview all my exes, like, I don't care all of them,

but obviously, Georgia's the friend, the friend, we interviewed them off. - The friend, the friend, they're so hot, yeah. Yeah, I bet, really scary. But yeah, honestly, like, because we had such a playful place,

like it was so nice and like easy and safe. And I guess it's also good to kind of have that closure and for people to see that like, you can be this close with an ex and it's all good. - Yeah, what do you think qualified her for the position?

- Because Georgia's been there through basically everything.

She's seen me at rock bottom and super highs. But also, I just think the emotional maturity too, to be able to like put everything to the side and when my dad passed to reach out and to be there. - It was like really special and for us to just after so many years

like after that moment and like hang out and just have, like we had the most fun. I remember when I saw her again after all these years and I was in a bit of a sticky situation ship and I wasn't having fun and I saw Georgia again

and we went into a concert and we had the best night ever with so much fun. I was like, oh, this is like, this is what life's about is just having a good power is having a great night and going on a concert and having laughs

and we just laughed the whole night. And there was no feeling like you needed to rekindle that day. - No, no, no, we were all good.

Like we knew that we were just gonna be always just gonna be friends

and so that was really special and that was really nice.

“And I was like, okay, cool, that's what life's about.”

So really, yeah, I think like, yeah. - No, that makes me happy for you that you clearly feel safe with her and I have to give her so much props because when I was thinking about it and I actually would love everyone else to think about this

for themselves 'cause it's kind of an interesting exercise. I was like, if I was in Harry's position and I needed to have one of my exes come and help me find love. I was like, who would I have them call?

And it was so crazy trying to think about it 'cause I was like, oh my god, I feel like almost all of them would try to sabotage me and there's like a few in there that I'm like, all right, he wouldn't do me dirty but I'm really happy I think it showed a lot of growth

also even just between the two of you because you publicly had gone at each other prior to this. So to be on a Netflix show together and be nothing but supportive, I was like, wow, maybe you can actually be cordial with exes.

- Yeah. - So go into this experience. Do you remember, what did you tell producers that you were looking for in a wife?

“- I think I just, actually, I don't even know what I said”

I just had just do it, like just figuring out 'cause I remember I told them, I'll be gonna tell them like literally nothing because I just wanted them to just do it for me and I don't want to put any pressure on like,

oh, I need them to be five, seven or whatever else. I was just like, as long as they have a job and they're happy, then that's good. - I feel like I remember talking to halfway through when we sat at the coffee shop

and I feel like you started to have an idea of what you wanted in a wife. Like what are some of those qualities? - Yeah, I think I love someone who's independent has a very good sense of humour.

Someone with tough skin. And someone that loves their work, like really obsessed with what they do. Again, it kind of comes back to you and Matt, like you guys are so obsessed with what you're doing

and growing and building. And again, just looking for my version of that. - Yeah, it's interesting 'cause I think Harry, you went into this and I remember you were like, I want someone who's gonna be an amazing support

and someone who can support me and my crazy life. And I want to support them, obviously. But like, I think you were kind of envisioning that maybe you were gonna find someone that you both couldn't have big careers almost.

And I think you were almost thinking like, this woman will be a great mother.

And I was always like, we know she can still be a great mother

and have her own career. - Yeah, do whatever you want. - Hello, come on, give your friends some applause. But I think it was interesting. I think slowly throughout this experience,

you actually realize, and I remember you saying to me, like, oh wait, I actually think I'm such a business person and I love my work and I love my career. Like, I think I need someone who also feels that way

of like someone who doesn't have a more traditional job or whatever.

“I think you wanted someone with people that are there.”

- It's nice to like go and have independent life. So Russ, I've been in relationships with just being at home all day and I come back and I'm like, fuck, click, click, click. - Yeah, and I think it's like, to each their own. And I think you thought you wanted that and that's okay.

And I think that's what's beautiful about having all these different types of relationships is everyone watching. It's like that dynamic works really well for some people. And I actually, it's interesting

'cause I think a lot of people would think that would work for you and it just, it doesn't work for you. - That's real. - Yeah. (upbeat music)

Okay, we're gonna go into a game. - Okay, fun. - Dating deal breakers. Before going into this experience, obviously you had one way of thinking,

now who you are today, I want you to answer genuinely. Okay, what you think about this? Okay, let's see where we're standing today. How do you feel about someone who kisses and tells? - Gross.

- What, no, that's bad. We don't do that anymore. - No, no. - We're not allowed to, you even, no. - Okay, I'm not judging.

I'm just giggling. - You want me to kiss and tell it? - No, no, no, no, no.

I love how you're always looking for me

to give you the answer. Stick with your answer, it's plain. - Don't kiss and tell. - Why? - Because it's not,

and we went through it on the show like when I had sex, she'll end the course with them. - Why did you decide that? - Thanks, you will end the course. - No, no, I think, yeah.

It's like Pele talking and kissing and telling is, is no bueno for me. - Would you be offended though, let's say, if you're wife, was talking to her friend group about your guy sex life?

“- If I'm not in the room, I think it's a bit weird.”

You know, I don't think that that's like appropriate. - Do you want to be in the room with your wife and all her friends talking? - Tell them, tell them, let them know. - No, because I was thinking about it.

I did, you know, in a relationship and like the friends that come in and they're like, I was asking about it, and I'm like, yeah, if they're comfortable, if we're all comfortable, you wanna know, like, let's go.

But like, I don't, if you're gonna go until buying, I'd be like, oh, yeah, it's a key. - I get that, okay, great. - Yeah. - How did you manage that in the house

when girls would be arguing over you? - Sick. (laughing) - I was like, let's go. No, it's like, it's like, you know, it's nice

that they've all got a good friendship out of this too. - You think they got a good friendship out of this? - Yeah, you know, they have a group check called Let's The Voice Harry. - Oh my god.

- Yeah, they just said no of my shit in there on the top, 'cause a few of them are rats,

so they said it to me, they're always such it back.

- Dude, that is actually amazing. I love those women. Let's divorce Harry. - Yeah, it's really sad. And as they'll get eliminated, they'll get added to it.

And like, yeah, so then by the end. - There's a bunch of them that wanted to divorce you. - Well, 20, and like, can I get in? 'Cause I had all the film cameras from set. Did I tell you this? - No.

- Oh, I bought a ton of film cameras 'cause obviously we kind of have fun.

“So I think I bought like maybe like 50 or 60 here”

and I gave them to the girls. I said, you'd want these memories. So take photos of each other so you can have it for later. So they take photos in every week when I have the day off, I go and get them developed.

And so then I have an email to me so by the end of the show, we had hundreds and hundreds of photos. They had all those memories together. - You're so sentimental.

- Well, I was just like, I remember the first, like all the shows I've been on and I'm like, I would love to have the BTS behind this. Obviously we kind of have fun. Love Island, they have their phones, whatever.

But I'm like, this is just so good for social stuff. - Dude, did you try to get into the group? You'd be like ladies, let me in and I'll give you the photos. - Yeah, and I could also, 'cause I was like, guys, if you just won't just add me real quick,

I'll just send a link, like, what do you need?

- We're never adding you, you lose her, you know?

- They didn't add me, yeah. - Okay, someone who has never been in love before. - Eek. - Eek. - No, everyone should be in love every day.

- Okay, so you're not looking for someone who hasn't been in love before. - No. - Why? - Because you learned so much lessons in love

and when you, there we go. - It can, it can tin you. - This is, I can't give you all the answers. - No, you have to, I'm so nervous. - No, you're doing great.

- No, I've been so nervous. - You're doing really great. - This is the hardest week of my life. I felt like I had a rock on my throat. - Why?

- 'Cause for me, or just for press. - True. - I'm like, it can't be me. - No, this is fine. - Okay, okay, so it's so good.

- No, okay. - One day you used to be nervous for college. - No, I mean, you know what I mean? - Oh, I guess it's that big of a deal. - Oh, no.

- So come to comfortable. (laughs) - No, it'd be nice, it'd be nice. No, I was thinking I was like, this is such a career highlight for so many people, like this is. - Meanwhile, you're like, can I go take a shit?

- Yeah, I'm like, so I'm gonna come up with dark of the cameras, let's get the podcast. - Okay, so you don't wanna be with someone who has never been in love. - Yeah, 'cause you learned so many lessons in love.

- Yes. - And that's part of life. And I don't like people that haven't

because you learn so much in that and that's where you build your character. So at least people, like some of the girls and show I've had a perfect life and life's good and I wish that for them.

But I don't want those people around me because God forbid we have a bad day. You wanna know how to handle that. - Yeah, see, see, this is why we have to get you away from one word answers, note to whoever your PR team is.

No one word answers for Harry 'cause he didn't give you a "ick" or a "yuck" or a "grow" and then your actual explanation is exactly what I was looking for. I agree to some people, especially where you're at in life where you're looking for serious relationships.

You don't want someone who hasn't been in love before. - Wow. - Because you're looking for someone who has experienced life a little bit more

than maybe their first start.

- Yeah, go round. - There we go. - Okay. - Am I being difficult? - Are you being difficult?

- Yeah. - Yeah, but I'm pulling it out of you. - Really? Am I being hard? - No, you're just, it's classic Harry.

- Right. - Or maybe if you were on another show, you, or hopefully they would push you. You give these answers that keep you in that, oh, Harry, Jell, C-Lane, and I'm like,

no, you're smart and you're an intellectual. - Have glasses. - You've glasses on. You've got glasses on for a reason. Since it's the first time you've ever worn glasses

in the Colorado episode, so start speaking like, you wear glasses. - Okay, I'm thinking. - Okay, next, ready. How do you feel about someone who also wants to be

in the spotlight? - You know, I think there's a healthy version of it

“if you want to be on the spotlight and do dating shows”

and whatever else, probably not good for a relationship. - So what do you? - What was that? - Sorry. I don't know what it's like.

- No, I've already done it. - Oh, so now you're done. - What if they're midway through their journey? - Enjoy it. - Okay, let's get into Let's Mary Harry.

- Let's agree with it. - Okay, let's get into it. - Now, let's get into it. - Okay, filming the show. If I told young Harry, women would be so ravenous. So excited for you that they would literally try to sneak

into your bedroom at night. How do you think young Harry would have responded? - I probably would have done a backflip. - Then in reality, when these women tried to actually sneak into your room, how did it actually feel?

- It was pretty scary. - Okay. - But it was really scary. - From the backflip to the commentary. - No, it was scary because also my brain is like,

if I have sex with someone, it's gonna,

and what it gets out, it's okay, first off,

there was so much going on my head. Okay, have sex with someone come quick and embarrass myself. - Was that your, was that top of the prior, did you think of her?

“- I see, I think so because then it's on TV”

and then all the girls are like, - Oh, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, let's tell him. - Quakey. - No. - No. - Don't you think it's Harry's for that?

- Diom. - Where is it? - Quakey. - Yeah. - You did upset it. - Did you miss it? - She's. - Oh, it's double down.

- No, I think that was it. And then also like, oh, it's gonna take away from the other girls' experience. If we do do that. And then it's like, oh, I have to be fully 110%.

I don't know why I'm joking, my finger off. fully 110% on the one person. I do have sexual intercourse with. - I see. - Because then.

- So a lot of at your brain was, you were worried just about how to navigate intimacy. - Yeah, it was so hard. - Let's talk more about the physical connection. - Okay.

- George warned you to think with your heart and your mind and not your other person. - Yeah. - If the physical connection wasn't immediately there for you, was it a red flag?

- No, 'cause I feel like in real life, for sure.

“But I think because everyone was so committed,”

we'll mostly, everyone was committed to that experience. I think that the physical component, like, wasn't a really a thing at all, 'cause I also didn't know if they were allowed to come up. Like, sure, if we were in real life

and were able to get physical, probably want to cook the whole thing. So it was nice to kind of slow it down and take a step back. - On your most, like the biggest day,

how many women did you make out with? - Think like at least like 10 or 11. - Yeah, there's a day-bed moment where they just kept coming and I didn't have to leave. And I was like, this is the best day ever.

- I feel like kissing at many people that. - It was a lot. - Yeah, it was a lot to be honest.

And you know, the first day I got there,

I remember, I think it was a group day and I was like, are we able to kiss everyone? - And then-- - And then we on rap. - The flawed games.

- Yeah, there we are, unraveled. - They were like, maybe we should've lived in a game. - Yeah, shit. You were like, I'm allowed to physically cook up with someone perfect.

- Yeah, like these are my fiancees, let's go. - Okay, one of the biggest moments in the series is, as viewers, we saw a walk-in that happened and it caused a lot of drama. You were in the bathroom with Amber.

And Sam overheard and later confronted you about it.

of what you guys did in the bathroom and you did end up keeping that secret

“and you lied about it, talk to me about that decision.”

- See, you got angry at me about this. - Let's talk through it. - Okay, 'cause on one hand-- - Set the scene. - If people haven't watched that episode yet,

go watch it but explain it.

- Yeah, basically we're getting down to the wild

with the final few fiancees and it's getting quite intense. And at these moments, the girls are getting, like finding more and more confidence that come and just seek me out and just hang out and see me and I know with Amber in that moment,

she was really questioning the whole process and was really like going through it and trying to figure out if I was serious about her and serious about what was happening. And so she came up to the bedroom and I was like,

I know there's one spot where there's no cameras, obviously not good for TV but great for mental health and to have nice conversations. And so I ran a shower and we just kind of like, just started laughing and figured it out

and we ended up getting involved with each other. Yeah, so we ended up having sex but one of the girls Sam had walked up as that was going on and heard us and thought that we were in the shower which was a true.

- We were in the toilet. - We were in the toilet.

- Yeah, you were using the shower to drown out the noise.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, trying to the noise because obviously we were getting intimate and then after that because it was kind of like sealed the deal. Like Amber was like, okay cool, like we're locked in, like we're good. That was like a good moment for us.

It was really special but I didn't know that Sam had come up and then also when Sam, you know, obviously she's not stupid and like everyone figured out something was going on 'cause she was, 'cause I know the girls they had a, like there was a moment

where they would all take one of my watches and then time how long people are up so that they knew when to come up. And like switch, did I take this? - We know.

- I had like five watches. I brought like so many watches and they would come up and they would take a watch, it's like okay cool, you have 15 minutes 'cause they wanted to be fair on each other and they'd be systematic.

But then Sam goes with just, - Stop them running this like a full type of organization. They're like, yeah, literally, yeah, it was crazy. So that anyway, yeah, after that moment, obviously the girls felt some type of way

'cause they wanted to confront me about it, me be honest, which I would have loved to, but if someone asked me to not say something and to do something, I'll have to respect it.

And ultimately, it was probably the best decision.

- Okay, so I remember, guys, I'm in the show for like a second. - Yeah. - And I remember we met at the coffee shop and I was torn because obviously I wasn't living

in this house with you and I wasn't sitting in the television truck day in and day out. So like I was obviously getting all the reports and I was hearing what was going on and I think what was hard is like,

I agree with how you handled that in normal life situation. If you sleep with a woman and she's like, I really don't, this is not for other people to talk about, this is not for public fodder. Like, please don't, I agree.

“I think where the line gets really blurred”

when you decide to do reality television is you're kind of signing up for we're all dating this one person. And so there needs to be some form of transparency because if we all start lying,

then none of us are gonna know where we're actually out with this person. And so Sam, I think was really genuine in that moment for being upset because it's like, so you lied about that and I agree and disagree with Amber.

Like I'm like, I actually so get it. Amber, it's so on her to be like, please don't tell anyone. It's like, what is the right answer? You could argue the right answer would have been. I hear what you're saying.

I think what's difficult is I have many women downstairs who are going to demand an answer and I don't need to give them all the dirty details, but I can't just bold face lie and be like, oh, we did nothing.

- Yeah, it's too long for her to do it. - Exactly, it's also, it's on camera. So I think, again, and I'm not saying, Harry, if I was in your situation, I may have done the same exact thing 'cause I also think what I respect is like,

in that moment clearly, you and Amber were getting so close and to you that probably both of you probably felt even more bonded by being like, let's have something for ourselves. - Yeah.

- And let's not tell people about this and let's not feel like we're on a TV show. We just try to do this outside of cameras and everything. So I get it, but then I also get why Sam was upset. - Do you know what I mean?

- Yeah, yeah. - It was a hard one. - It was a hard one to mentally navigate to

“and I think even still having a hard time about it,”

but you right, I haven't thought about it like that 'cause it's also, yeah, we signed up to just be open and honest and have that communication. And I probably should have put my flag in the ground a little bit on that.

But I think I was just, again, so nervous to do the wrong thing and be the same guy again and again.

(upbeat music)

“- All right, after living in a house with 20 women,”

let's see if you picked up an unknowledge

and played the girlhood test. - Easy, I got this. - I'm gonna show you pictures that women use in their everyday lives. And you are gonna just answer what it is, okay?

Are you ready? - Go, microwave. - It's not, that's a microwave for your face. - Yeah, but that was so quick and like, I feel like I wouldn't even fumble like,

wait, what does that thing called? And it's you to shave your face. - Yeah. - Does it freak you out that girl shave their face? Every night I'm like, come on Matt, let's do it together.

- It's easy. - It's easy. - It's easy, it's easy, done. - Yeah, I've shaved my face with my husband. - You got peach fuzz? - Yep, everyone does.

Okay, ready? - Yeah, okay, your fingers run it. What is it? Is that a heat roller? - No, kind of, no.

- It's for your hair. It's a dyson air rep. Is that right? - Yes. - Wow.

- I can't tell if I'm impressed. But is this like, is this like too much of a red flag? - No, this is good. - Okay, next, ready? - Nah, hair removal cream, I use it on my butt

and ruin my whole trip. - I knew nair, but I was like, does he know what it actually does? - Yeah, yeah, because my personal trainer,

“he does it on his legs, he said, oh, you should do it.”

And so I did it on my legs and it felt really smooth. So I got carried away and I was like, I'll just do my whole body. And I went to Bali before I went on the flight. - You naired your whole body?

- Yeah, it did my whole body chest, everything, and get on the flight. And my whole bum looks like hundreds and thousands. Is that what you guys call him here? Like, sprinkles.

- Oh, sprints and thousands. - That's what we call him, I said. - On your bum, it looks like sprinkles. - Yeah, and I was like on a scooter everywhere and I'm like, this is fucking horrible.

- You naired your ass? And it's still bad. Like it still hasn't recovered and it's been months. It's been since May. - You put nair on your ass.

- I put on the hole, I was like, I wanna make sure I'm, I was gonna see my ghost. - Wait, you put nair on your asshole? - Yeah. - And your bum cheeks?

- And my nipples, I guess. - You can't have that much hair on your ass cheeks. - Yeah, but I just wanted to make sure that you-- - You wanted to be really-- - That God forbid I, someone sees me

and walk around naked that I have a-- - You know here is bum. - It doesn't go there. - Your asshole-- - What are these actors doing?

- What do you mean putting nair on my labia? - Why would you do that? - Why would you do that? - Well, I was curious, curious. - What if I was curious?

- No, but what's it like? What do these actors do to have smooth asses on these movies? Don't you wax it? - No, you definitely will wax it, but--

- It's a problem with young men today is we don't know how to-- - Let's get into this conversation. - We don't know how to have smooth non-pimply assholes. - Hmm.

- How do we do that? No one teaches you, I just ned my whole whole, trying to figure it out, then I've shaved it, doesn't work, but then it's so I do like the actual buzzer, and that's what works on my legs.

But like, it's still not silky smooth. I need this bussy, I think this bussy is really smooth. My little man kitty, you know? I need my man cat nice and smooth.

Do you never know who's gonna see it?

- This bussy? - This bussy, I always get worried that like-- - Is that a stain? - You know what a bussy is. - We do people call it a bussy?

- Boy, bussy, bussy, or the job bussy is what people call mine. Have you not seen it on my stories? - Who calls it that? - Mason.

(laughing) - No, this one guy replies it on my stories, what do you think of a guy? This guy replies it on my stories. Every confessionally said, is the job bussy off the market?

And I'm like, "Yo, Mason, I don't know you." Like, don't speak about my posts like that. - Are you making it to available? - Oh, yeah, job, good. I don't know.

- The job bussy. - Yeah, job bussy, it's a thing. Everyone's doing it. - But the job bussy, the job bussy? - The jobsy.

“Here's the thing, is I always get worried”

that God forbid it after we have sex or something. I have to bend over and pick something up. - Right. - You just want to be every angle looking good. - Yeah, just in case.

Like, you never know who's gonna see with your face.

No bump-off. But ladies, if you have it, we'll nibble on it. The fuck is that, a wax chip? - Oh, yeah, what's that? - Oh, nose paw.

- I couldn't even get this one. When my team printed this out, I was like, what is that again? - But you got pregnancy brain right now, no? Is that another thing?

- What? - Okay. - What did you just say? - Is that another thing pregnancy brain? - It is, but you're not allowed to say it.

I can only say it. - Oh, I don't know, but I'm like-- - But you know, I do have pregnancy brain. - Yeah. - You knew this immediately.

- This is my job. - Why is it your job? - 'Cause I had 20 fiancees. I need to make, this is part of my preparation. Is I had Georgia in the room going, what is this?

- What is this? - What is this? - So when she comes in and she's wearing one of these, she wouldn't be scared. - No, I'd be like, give me one.

'Cause I got a lot of pores right now. - You can do it together. - Being on through it. - Okay, so then we're gonna cruise through the rest of it. - Face roller.

- Face roller. - Yeah. - All right, LED red masks, red face masks.

- No. They should send me one though. They should do a brand deal Sephora. - Harry? - Warsaw.

- All right, I hate this cause. Is that right? - That's it. - Yes. - Harry.

- Think about it. Like, make it harder. - I'm so impressed. - Kevin Hart couldn't get any of it. - Really?

- Nothing. - I'm trying to think Kevin Hart. (laughing) - Maybe. - I don't know.

- He's got way more money. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

“I think he's more focused on all of the things”

that he's been learning about all these problems. - Yeah, he actually has a career. - Okay. - Okay. - We're transitioning back.

Okay, New Zealand. - Yeah. - You go home during the show and I know that you were very anxious because when you were going home to New Zealand, you were down to the final two women.

- Oh yeah. - And so there was a lot emotionally riding on this. Can you just explain what was going on and what was going through your head? - I think I was at such a hard point in the whole experience

because number one, I'm going back to New Zealand

basically a year-on since my dad had died.

And then also seeing my sisters and their family. Like, the last time I saw them was at his deathbed. So I had the heaviness of the reality of that setting in and that my dad's actually dead. And then also the reality of like,

how I should have these two incredible people that would love to marry me. And I don't know who's better or who's better for me. And I know in those moments I was really struggling to figure out what I was doing.

And like, is this the right decision? Am I, if I go either way, it's gonna be a great life no matter what. But then also I was so torn. I remember even once we come back from New Zealand,

I was like, I was more upset. I wasn't excited about the idea of getting married. I was more upset about hurting someone. And I think that was the hardest thing is, and I'm usually if you've had a married someone,

“like you should know, like some of the friends on the batcha.”

And they're like, yeah, I knew from the first date. And I think that was what was fucking me up. It's 'cause I'm trying to balance this grief

where I've never felt before and then also go away.

I should know at this point when I didn't know. Yeah. I remember you also telling me, like, I know I have so just I'm still grieving and I don't even know if I fully even grieved in a way

that I don't know. Like, what is grief? And like, how do you know when where you are in that process? And you're like, and on top of it, going back, I'm gonna feel so many emotions.

So then adding in these two women that I'm already so stressed, it was like this beautiful storm of just a lot of emotions for you. And I remember the producers texting me when you guys got there. And they were like, oh, wow, he's really in his feels.

Yeah, I remember the playing touch, as soon as the playing hit Nelson, New Zealand tears, I couldn't stop crying. And I really struggled to breathe. And I was like, holy fuck, like, oh, this is real.

Like the thing is, it's kind of like this show when it comes out, it's like, you just have so much anticipation and then as soon as you get there, it's like, it just releases. And like, I remember being in New Zealand and my, oh my God, wow.

And then seeing my sisters and my fuck, it's like, it's been a year so excited to see them. Being, being those, like, that was also the hottest thing is because we'd be driving around Nelson, New Zealand. And a lot of those streets were like,

last time I was there, I was with my dad in the car. Like we drive past McDonald's and I was like, fuck, that was the last place I had McDonald's. And that was with him. And then I was like, oh, we drive a little bit past

as a gas station. I was like, oh, he was cleaning the car window there. So I was the whole day, I was just like looking around 'cause again, don't have my phone. It's like usually if you're in a car,

you're just texting on whatever else. Then in my phone, I'm sitting there like taking it all in. Taking it all in and then going a holy fuck. I remember the two dates that we had. And I looked at the producers.

I was like, I can't, I legitimately cannot do this. Like I, I'm trying my best here. And, and I felt like with the now on our date. Like I'm taking away from her experience, like she's first time in New Zealand.

This is so exciting and what's meant to be a beautiful date. But I just couldn't, I kept shutting down. And I was trying, and I remember just like grabbing them. I was like, can I just, I need to be alone. I was like, I wish I came a day early

and just sat by myself and processed it. But thankfully, like, they gave me a date of myself. They took me to a beach or actually I drove, I remember this beach. And it was the last beach that I went to with my dad. And I remember walking on the beach

and I was the only one in jeans in a sweater. And I remember when it's set up this rock. And I just looked around and I was like, oh, wow, this is like, this is happening. This is so crazy, so real.

And then the most powerful emotion that I've ever felt

in my life, like fully just like dumped.

“I think it was like the way to their show,”

grieving my dad being like feeling his presence and his energy and being on that rock. And I remember I was just weeping to so long.

I'm like, oh, it's so crazy. That's the best thing about grief. It's like, it just overwhelms you and your whole body. And I loved the feel like I loved that. I was able to grief.

I love that. I was able to sit there and just feel like I was wailing and carrying on because it was so special because after that, all the pain and the tears and gone through it, I felt so good.

“I think that's also what I'm really excited for people”

as they watched this show to experience again. It's like you really were in such a different, you're in a different phase of your life. And it's horrific what you had to go through with your dad. And I feel like now knowing you for as long

as I've known you, I also think, correct me if I'm wrong. But what also I feel like was coming up for you, Harry, before you left when we were talking, is a little bit like you didn't have this love story you grew up watching between your mom and your dad fully.

And so like you talk about looking at people that you've become close with and you're trying to find people that you want to emulate their relationship or take parts of it, Matt and I and your friends and all those people.

But I think losing your dad and then also having these two women sitting there and New Zealand with you, it must have been so overwhelming to be like, oh my God, like, I'm, there's a lot that I'm still grieving just by losing my father.

But then I'm also trying to find the love of my life and marry someone, but I'm still trying to figure out what that even looks like for me 'cause I didn't exactly have a perfect example of that growing up.

And so like, there was a lot in Turkey next to it, almost. - Yeah, yeah, I don't recommend it. - Yeah, I mean, honestly, and I agree, obviously they won't see the amount of time that everyone gave you, but I'm happy that you did get

some time to yourself to like, grieve and just try to relax a little bit. - Yeah, we hit a lot of you with that crew. - Yeah, we're amazing. - Yeah, and you know what was really cool?

My favorite thing, my favorite thing about the whole show, ever was that when we went to New Zealand, they hired so much local crew. And like, for me, I'm like, oh, this is so cool because now we get like all these jobs here,

but also some of the guys that were on the crew,

I did my first ever dating show with when I was 19.

- It was all full circle. - Yeah, I remember the guy was with my son. I was like, what do I know you? And then he's like, bro. We worked in it like, we worked together.

- So long. - Yeah. - And I was like, what a nice way to close the loop. So I felt like it was all like all these synergies and all these amazing things,

but I was like, it was such a beautiful thing. But then also on that rock, and I know this isn't in the show, but when I was sitting there, throughout the whole show and the whole experience, I'm asking for so many signs from my dad and like the B thing.

So like, and I guess to give some color on that is, me and my dad used to be keep when we were younger and before he'd passed, I said I'm gonna get a little B pendant and to like every time I think about him, or any time I see a B, I'm gonna think about him.

Obviously, didn't get a B pendant, but it turned him into a little diamond, which was nice.

But on the show, I would always see B's around Amber

if they'd always pop up, I could always.

“And now I remember, I think it's in the show,”

so I'm not ruining anything. But when we did our first overnight, there was like a B that flew all the way up to that penthouse and landed. And then even I actually don't know if I told you this.

The first date before we're walking to the yacht, I was in the car with Prisa, my producer. And I'm like, oh, I just gotta go to the toilet before we go on the yacht. And I remember walking to this,

there's Marie and I were at this walk into the urinal and I was like, fuck dad, I don't know if this is right decision. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. I swear to God, I said it out loud.

Dad, if this is right decision, show me a sign and I'm walking to urinal and I swear to God, I'm paying and I looked down, someone put a B sticker on the urinal. And I was like, okay, this is all good. There was another thing.

So then, obviously, the scene, I saw B's around and B's family. I saw B's the next day. When we went to New Zealand, I was on that rock. And I guess this is the best advice to anyone

that's lost, I want to just, you just ask for signs and you will see them and they will show up, no matter what. And it's so much comfort in that. And then if you think you're crazy, then that's all good. But at least you feel good.

But I was on that rock. And I was telling my dad, I'm like, Dad, I've seen so many B's, but they're everywhere. It's fucking stupid. Like, it's a stupid sign because they're everywhere.

So I'm always seeing about you.

It's like, show me something I haven't seen

“and since I was a kid, I need to see a dragonfly, right?”

So I gotta go. Is that crazy? - That hairy, that is, I love that too for anyone listening, I agree that has an experience in grief because I agree, everyone I've always talked to

is like having that sign, it's so comforting. And it just makes me so happy because obviously spoiler everyone, but like you chose Amber.

- And so it did end up working out in the show that you chose this person. I wanna talk more about you guys in that relationship because obviously getting married to someone is one of the biggest decisions that you will ever make

in your life.

“What do you think initially really drew you to each other?”

- You know, I think Amber was in that environment, still so free and unique. Like it's a very, like for her spirit, it's a very free spirit of person. Like Rubin and Hawaii, very go with the flow energy

and in that environment with this chaos and this drama and this goes yelling on each other, the fact that she was able to keep that

was really incredible and just like a breath of fresh

and in a chaotic environment like that. - How do you think that you felt like your relationship as it progressed started to differ from your relationship with other women? Like what made you feel like it was maybe a little bit stronger?

- We would have so much more fun. You know, we would have those moments where she would open up and tell me about what's going on her life and make it just so incredibly safe to talk about what was going on mine

and even when we were in New Zealand and I was like, oh, I just need to see Amber 'cause she's been through grief like this before and she made it just so easy and fun. And that was a cool thing.

- So obviously you were down to Denalan Amber. You had told both women that you loved them which I know you were like,

I never expected to get to a place where I was telling to him

and I love them. But I think it gives people a lot. I think we're now acclimated to that with reality television that like we seen so many people be like, guys, I'm telling you it's the craziest thing

but like when you're in these experiences, you actually can be in love with two people. - Yeah. - When you did choose Amber, what were the main factors that went into that decision?

- That was the most difficult thing 'cause that day before I didn't sleep and I had before like legitimately no sleep, I was so distraught by the idea. So my brain, I loved to overthink.

So I was panicking about the idea of having to break someone's heart in front of their friends and family. And that's what was really like, it's what really sucked. So it was honestly really difficult.

And my family didn't help either 'cause my sisters loved both of them and they had such a good time. I was tough. I remember even up until the moment I'm like,

I don't know what's going on.

Like there's always, I was always second guessing it

which is not fair on Amber either. Like even in the like, yeah, at those final, like it's not fair on anyone to be second guess. - No, but I think this is good as people will watch obviously what things

and fall out and all of this are gonna come. I think it's good to know, but I think it's good to hear your headspace because I, to be honest, like I would hate to hear that if I was Amber or Denal, like I think it gives more clarity

into where your head was at where you were so torn and you really weren't fully leaning toward someone at the end of this. No, I don't think it's horrible. I think it's honest.

“I think, and unfortunately I think you have to be honest.”

I'd rather you be honest than be like, it was such an easy decision. It was Amber all the way. Like I remember the day before, you were like, I literally don't know who to pick.

And you were asking, understandably like production, everyone like who do you guys think I should pick? Like you were so in your head, you were like someone give me feedback and to everyone's credit, they were like,

hey, this is on you. I remember you were still telling basically just before the wedding, Denal that you loved her. - Yeah. - How did you navigate those lingering feelings when you then went into the wedding with Amber?

- You know, I think a wedding is like heavy enough on a good day, you know? Like this, there's so much that goes into it. With that and then also having like, hey, like I really love and care about this other person too,

it was horrible. Like it wasn't, it was so unfair on both of them. And even myself to a degree, but it's obviously, you know, I was in it. But I remember even I was having the biggest panic attack

“when they're like, okay, you have to make a decision now.”

And you have to walk into a room and tell one of them. I couldn't believe what was going on. I was pacing, I'm like, please, like I need, I don't know what to do, like I'm freaking out. And again, like, it's so unfair on both of them.

And it was hard to be excited about the wedding because I knew that someone was sitting in a hotel room with a broken heart. So that was difficult because I meant to be having the happiest moment of life,

but then also being sad because I've just broken someone's heart. But it would have been the same either way. Like if I chose to know, I've still would have been freaking out. It could have been anyone and I still would have been like,

fuck it, oh good, like, let's just ride.

But like for now, especially to go through that and for them to see me at my weakest in New Zealand. And then to be like, all right, actually, I'm gonna give you this feeling is horrible. Yeah.

- I remember something that your friends said on the show is they brought up that you and Amber have very different lifestyles. - Yeah. - Did you consider that at all, a red flag, not on her part,

but just both of your, just as the dynamic

“and your compatibility when you were going into choosing her?”

- I don't know, to be honest, I think it's so exciting. Again, like it could have been like both of them give two very different lifestyles and two very different lives. So yeah, I don't know, I don't even consider it. I was just like, there was already so many thoughts

and feelings going on. - Yeah, sorry, so much to go to my head. - Yeah, I get it. It's like you're in this filming bubble. And I think honestly, I think that becomes one

of the biggest issues when you look at reality television of like people try so hard to talk about like life outside of this, but it's hard to like, you can try, but then you actually have to go live it. And sometimes it's really hard to make that work.

- It's really hard. - After filming you and Amber had to keep your relationship private until the show aired as a public person, how did that go for you? - Terrible.

We were on Duma, and it wasn't me League. (laughs) - Oh my, Harry's like, trust me. I would have loved to leak something.

- I was like, why did you text me first?

- You didn't leak it to Duma. - No, I didn't, you know, it was so frustrating. So we went to Hawaii to see a friend and family. And again, my brain, you know, you've just married someone and you want to do life, you want to experience everything,

you want to go see everything. I mean, we were sitting at breakfast in the hotel and someone had taken a photo of the back of her head and my face. And I was like, I was like, I was like, I were fucked.

Like now we can't do anything. 'Cause like now they know, go out, like thank God they didn't get the front of her face. - Right, 'cause you can't spoil the whole show.

“And I think that's what's really, really hard”

about reality TV is like other than Love Island who's doing it in the moment. And they've got, I can't imagine how many editors they have in a room like these shows, you then have to basically not see your partner for a while.

And when you do, it has to be in really confined space.

- No, it's a trusted space, too.

He's like, when we're gonna see a friends and family, like, okay, cool, like trusted here, but if we go to like a restaurant and pick up a coffee or something, like it'd have to be so brief and so quick, 'cause if someone sees me and goes, wait,

who's that guy who's with take a photo and it ends up on a tea page? We're kind of cooked, so when we went to Australia 'cause I wanted to come see my friends and family, but I'm gonna be smart about it.

I'm gonna fly in a few hours earlier, I'm gonna go check in the hotel. She's gonna fly in a couple hours. After I'm gonna get a car, so I immediately pick her up and then we go to the hotel.

So I'm thinking, I've got this bulletproof plan. And the next day we're gonna drive through my mom's farm which no one's near and we'll gotta be all good. Swear to God, I pick her up from the airport, we're driving back to the hotel.

I'm fucking pipe bursts in the hotel and the elevator's go down. And it was like three AM or two AM, so I'm like, oh no one will see us. I'm already panicking 'cause the Hawaii shit just happened.

So I'm panicking there, like people are gonna see us or people are gonna know us. Obviously, I'm not as famous as I thought it was 'cause I'm like guys, where's the paparazzi? No, no, stop.

You're like, hello? Yeah, I think guys, there was no one waiting at the airport when I got in. I'm Australia, I'm home. But so we get to the hotel

and she's got her bags and stuff and I was like, can I just take out the staircase? Like, no, everything's flooding. So I'm like, fuck, what do we do? We go in like hide in a corner

and she's overseas, because she's just traveled so early. And like falls asleep on my lap. Thank God, if Facebook's facing this way, someone walks around the corner. I'm on my phone like this.

Like, exhausted at the fucking 3 AM. Snaps the photo of us. Walks away, ends up on some French tea page on Reddit. And I was like, get another call from Netflix. Like, what are you doing?

“Right, and it's like the only thing you want to do”

when you just, you just got married, you're, you're in love, you know, you're feeling it. And you're like, I just want to like go to a coffee. I just want to hang out with my wife. Hang out with my wife.

And I literally can't do that. Yeah. Obviously, so much, it's, I think every reality show. It's like so much happened in the reality show. And then so much has gone down since them.

And we are going to see all of it play out on the reunion. Okay. Okay. I'm fucking scared. You shouldn't be smiling.

I knew you were trusting it. But they asked. They didn't ask. I'm scared of Alex. No, no, no.

Alex doesn't need this. I don't need to be doing this. I'm pregnant.

Don't worry. I don't know. But I am excited for you to, I don't know. Go through that process is, is there anything you're nervous about? Is there anyone you're nervous to see?

You know, I believe that I've had a really good relationship with Olegos, even up until now.

Like, Danielle, we, she would text me basically every other day, worried about something

and wanted to talk through things because I explained to the girls like, hey, I, and he in a matter of what. And I said to Danelle, like, you can feel free to speak. However you feel about me, obviously, like, she was the one at the end who had the the most hot break.

“And I'm like, if you want to drag me, all good, fine.”

I would always be here. It's all good. No worries at all. And I said, so all the other girls, like, no matter what, if you need, I'm here, like I know this is like a new scary world for you.

And obviously, I've been in it, so that's all good. So I'm not worried about anything because whatever they want to say or whatever they feel cold to say, I would love for them to just do it.

And like, let's put it all in a table, that's fine.

Obviously, um, and obviously, they're going to see things on the show. Maybe how I talk or whatever else I could maybe that go, the start that just wanted to follow is like, she's probably not going to appreciate that. But maybe that might be her moment to get more followers. So like, if everyone gets what they want, then that's all good.

I'm not worried about anything. I'm just more worried about hurting or upsetting people because I'm in such a good place in my life now and everything's perfect.

“And I wouldn't want to affect that at all.”

I just would want that, like, everyone gets what they need out of it. And that where I'll go to, we can move on and I love this approach. Like, I love how you think this reunion, you're like, and it's going to be beautiful. And we're going to love this and it's going to be such a good cathartic experience. Meanwhile, like, these women may be coming with pitchforks and you better buckle up Mr.

Jowsee. Oh, whatever, union is calm, chill, cool, calm and collected, not yours. What? Not yours. You did. I mean.

No way. I mean, no, no, I am going to be so sad for this reunion. And I will say this as your friend. I remember getting ready for your wedding. What you dressed like it was a funeral, by the way.

I was going to ask if you remembered that. Yeah, you fucked me. That's the last thing I showed up to hear you said. And I literally was like, I dressed for funeral because we are basically lying to rest. The fuck boy, Harry.

And we are, it's a rebirth, essentially. And I really do genuinely stand by this when I say, when I got ready that morning, after watching you go through this whole process, I really knew that. And I'm not, I, both women were such incredible choices, no matter who you chose. What I knew before even wedding or no wedding, I knew that you had changed.

And I could feel it.

“I think this process, you went in, and that's why I thought it was so important to talk”

about it in the beginning. Harry, like, you genuinely went into this experience and you wanted to be better. You wanted to change. You wanted to find your person.

Like, you were pouring into your self in a way that you never had before.

And you were also so open and you wanted it. And watching you go through the pain and the heartbreak and grieving your father and looking at these relationships in a different way, taking accountability, messing up along the way, being in the back and crying to producers, like, we saw a side of you that I was like, this is breaking him almost in a way that he's rebuilding himself by the end.

And so I showed up for the funeral because I was like, no matter what happens today, genuinely. Who he picks? If he picks neither of them. Truly, Matt and I both went, we like, he may not get married today, but he is a different

person today than when he went into this experience for the best. And I think that no matter what, that was a win for you because I do not believe we will ever see the version of you that predated the show, like you've just grown, you're a different person now. Thank you.

Of course. Hopefully. Very, no, no, let me, now let me, here you go, so I just said all that. So don't let anyone clip that, you know, a couple months from now and be like, Alex Cooper, you are the biggest, God, he is back to his ways, I'm going to be like, don't prove

me wrong. I will do you proud of it. Harry Jowsey, I can't wait for the reunion, I wish you the best of luck and I don't know. Get out of my studio.

Thank you very much. Love you.