Rachel Bilson: From People Pleasing to Knowing Your Worth (FBF)

>> What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. [MUSIC] >> Rachel Billson, welcome to Call Her Daddy. >> Thank you so much for having me.

>> I am a big fan of early 2000s TV shows, and not to freak you out. >> But I am the biggest OC fan, maybe not ever, but like, >> Are you serious? >> I still watch it to this day. You know, those shows you go back and watch a little.

The OC always threw in through to the core, love it.

>> That's so awesome. >> So I'm happy to have you on today, very much. >> Thank you. >> Very fun. >> Thank you, I'm flattered. >> For my problematic listeners, who you are.

“If you've never watched the OC, you have to watch it.”

To give them a little background, I just basically these rich kids living in Orange County, California, drugs, sex, relationships, family drama, all the things, and you're doing a rewatch podcast, yes, yes, which is amazing. >> Oh, thanks. >> What is it like going back to relive the OC phenomenon?

>> Oh my God, so it's so interesting. I was 21 when I did the show, and it was my first real big job. Watching it back, honestly, the first few episodes, I had such an emotional reaction. I got depressed, I was like, oh my God, because it's like 20 years later, basically, right? >> Yeah.

>> And I'm so much life has happened, what did I do? >> Like, what did I do? >> When you say what did I do, do you mean in terms of the show or just like-- >> No, just life, just life. >> Yeah, you're just like what?

>> It's just more like you're basically playing back the last 20 years ish of your life,

and it's all just going through your mind as I'm watching this, because I'm looking at this like little, like, pudgy face, like 21 year old, like a lot of bronzer on, and like questionable clothing, which is coming back, which is also very confusing. But like, I'm watching it just going like, oh shit, you know, and my boyfriend at the time was on the show with me, and so it brings up all that about life behind the scenes.

>> When you're that young and you're on a show, and you're dating someone on the show, and you're like the it girl on the show, everyone's obsessed with you, but then you're saying, like, I'm looking back, and like, that was still me as a young woman, like, and I'm watching back. So there's like emotions for you, and then--

>> For sure. >> Yeah.

“>> And then everyone still wants to talk about it all the time to you, which how does that feel?”

>> Well, you know what, I will say, I wasn't like Misha Barton was obviously like the it girl, and she was 16 years old, and I can't even imagine what I would have been like, to be 16 with that kind of attention and every magazine cover, like, I still had a lot of anonymity in my own life, and my boyfriend and we were very domesticated, and kind of, like, grandparents at the time, like, we were like old people, like, newspaper in the

morning, same breakfast every morning, like, it was really-- >> We see you guys were like the couple on the show. >> You know what?

I guess you're right, but Josh Schwartz, the creator, would always take, you know, things

from your own life, and incorporated into the show, like Golden Girls, huge Golden Girls fan. He put it in the show, we sing the theme song, so there were so much, you had to be careful around Schwartz, like, what you said or did. >> 'Cause he's like, that's the next few steps though.

>> Absolutely. >> Like the most common question you're asked about your time working on the O.C. >> I mean, a lot of it was just, like, what was it like, you know, getting that much attention that quickly and working together and how was everyone on set? And there's been, like, mixed things out there.

>> Yeah. >> We had a great time. We had a lot of fun in general together, personalities hanging out, but yeah, a lot

“of the things are like, how did it feel to have that much success that quickly?”

It is kind of an unfathomable feeling at that age. Like, I know what I was doing at 21. It was not that. >> It was just drinking in college being a full degenerate, having sex and making bad decisions with my life.

>> Oh, yeah. I did that just earlier. >> Okay. >> Still on, like, kind of a pedestal of people watching you, and so I'm interested to know, like, when the O.C. became popular, how did it affect you, your family, friends?

>> Right. >> Well, you know, like I said, because I was in a relationship, I was definitely on a different track. And going through it together. Having that support really made the difference.

>> Okay. So, to anyone that hasn't watched or the O.C. stands that are just, like, just say the name, Summer Roberts, your character, was hot, popular, rich, because of the equal. And then she starts basically getting into a relationship with Seth Cohen, who was played by Adam Brody.

>> Yes. >> And so you have an on-screen relationship, and then you start an off-screen relationship. >> Yes. >> When was the moment you knew you had feelings for him? >> Oh my God.

I mean, I feel like on-screen was kind of playing off-screen, because in the beginning, there was a triangle between another character, Anna, Stern played by Samira Armstrong, and then myself and Seth, and I felt like it kind of played into real life a little bit, like Samira and I worked both like, wait a minute, I don't know, like, I like Adam, no, I like Adam. And like, it kind of was happening off-screen, and you know that competitive side of you,

it, I obviously thought Brody was super cool, I knew him before the show, a friend of us had dated him actually, I know. So we knew him a little bit, and he was hilarious, and I'm a sucker for a sense of humor, like, absolutely. >> I mean, that is my weakness.

>> So was there like a moment on set that immediately you were like, I'm gonna go for this? >> I remember standing in the hallway, okay, I don't remember anything, and the fact that I remember this is kind of insane, I was standing in the hallway, and I was dating someone else at the time, and Brody like talked to me about the relationship and gave me advice on why

I shouldn't be in it, and it was like this moment of like, oh, I want to be with you. >> You know, and it was like this, this pivotal moment, and there was like a Halloween party,

“I think it was a Halloween party, and he kissed me for the first time, and that was it.”

It was like, okay. >> And that was off-scamera, that was like that kiss, you were saying off-camera. >> Look, we missed that in summer. >> But the first time he kissed me on-screen, I think that was the first time like, oh, is there something here?

>> Right. >> But that can be confusing. >> You know, if you're doing a show or a movie and that happens, sometimes you get confused, like, oh, do I really like feel this way, am I feeling something or is it just? >> Is it true?

I've heard from actors like, you can tell a little bit if someone's more in to you, because there's like an appropriate way to kiss a ghost star? >> There's no tongue in television, okay. If someone tongues you, you're gonna be like, oh, either like, oh, no, or like, oh, no, no.

>> No, I'm just kidding.

>> Never tongue on camera.

>> No, no, no. >> But then on. >> No. >> Okay, we should definitely fun. >> And then, do you have any advice for someone who is newly dating someone in their work

and buyer? >> Oh my God. Advice, you know? It sounds like I should probably be a pro with my track record. I think that just be friends first, because I think that'll help.

Because usually it ends sometimes. >> You know what? >> I love you being realistic about it. >> Yeah. We love the realistic side.

>> Oh yeah, I'm very real. >> You have a fall. >> Yeah.

“>> So when you're on set, was there ever an instance where dating someone you're working with?”

Was there ever something that was like hard about that aspect? >> When we broke up, like that's the harder. I don't, you know? And then we both dated other people on the show while we were together in real life. So sometimes you can be a little job.

I mean, he was kissing on the show for your characters or the characters. >> Sorry. >> He was kissing a little of you while. Then of course I'm going to be like, well, fuck, you know, but I also get it. Like can I kiss her?

>> She's not when you guys broke up. >> No, we were together. We were together while that was happening. >> That would be a hard while. >> That's a hard one.

>> Right. >> And you're like, and so cool. And she's the coolest person in real life, too. So you're like, well, I love her. And you're like, wait a minute, your boyfriend's kissing her.

And then it can be confusing. >> Yeah. >> It's just that kind of stuff, but that's normal. >> So how long did you guys date for? >> I think like three years.

>> And was that fierce? >> And was that three seasons? >> Yeah. >> We dated pretty much the whole show. >> It was such a huge show that blew up.

>> Right. >> And everyone was obsessed with you guys. Like the four people that were like the main kids on the show. >> Yeah. >> And to have you being able to have a relationship with someone to be your rock and

“your go-to person while your life is kind of changing before your eyes.”

>> I'm sure like a bond you guys will always have.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And even reconnecting with him, I spoke to him. He came on the OC podcast. >> Yeah.

>> It was great. I love seeing him. Anytime I see him, nothing but fond, like loving feelings and great memories. So fun. >> Yes.

>> Okay. Your character. You are so loveable. I'm wondering how was your personal real life Rachel Wilson high school experience? >> Oh God.

>> Oh man. >> School for me. I wasn't so much like an academic I would say. I just, it just didn't interest me. It's not like I couldn't do it.

If I sat down and really studied and focused, I could do it. But my interests were like all over the place. And growing up in LA, I think I grew up a little young. Like at 15, my friends and I and I love you who's here with me. Like we'd be getting into the clubs, like do it.

>> Do it. >> You know. >> That sounds like summer rubbers. >> I mean a little bit. A little bit.

>> I still remember. >> Exactly. What I was wearing where I was the time of day who I was with for the season three finale. >> Oh. >> Like a cup of chills.

>> I've never, and I still have not recovered from it.

>> I have any, I don't, I mean. >> Spoil alert. >> You know who hasn't. >> Merissa. >> Tenny one that has watched the show.

Pause and go watch it please spoiler. The main character dies. >> Yeah. >> Trajically. >> Trajically.

>> Like the most tragic. >> Like fuck you full chuck. >> Yeah. >> But he was so hot. >> Oh my god.

>> He wasn't hot. >> He was so hot. >> Sorry. >> What you've dated him? >> Oh my god.

>> Absolutely. >> Sorry. >> If someone in the audience and God bless you. >> Because I had his like poster this guy. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So how do you say so? >> Good on day. >> Good on day. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Well, I was obsessed with him. >> Anyways. >> Merissa dies. >> Yep.

>> Misha Barton's character. >> Yep.

“>> What was your reaction when you learned that Misha's character was getting pulled off the show?”

>> It was very traumatic. I felt it. It was so somber on set. And you really, because you're a family and it is like a family member is leaving or dying, and it was brutal.

I mean, still I can picture it in my mind and it's just traumatizing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I don't remember like behind the scenes really like the last time she was on set. >> Yeah.

>> Like that. But it was definitely a dark time. >> Did you talk to Misha about her decision to leave the show? >> I don't think I ever had a personal conversation like why are you leaving. I think it was a joint decision.

I don't think it was like her decision like I'm going to leave or Josh and Stephanie's decision to be like we're getting, you know, you're being killed off because whatever. You know, I don't know what really happened behind the scenes as far as like who made the actual decision. I think that Josh felt like a lot of her storylines had run through. I mean, what else could you put the girl through?

She literally like overdoses, shoot someone. You know, I mean, every possible storyline was done with that character. >> You're right.

“And it didn't seem fitting for her to like go, I think it was like she's going to go work on her dad's boat or something.”

>> I mean, that's not Marissa's not going to work on a boat. >> No. >> Like she's going to catch a week. >> Right. [MUSIC]

>> How did the cast dynamic change for season four? >> Towards the end, I started to work on something else at the same time simultaneously. So I was so distracted that I wasn't really in it all the time presently. So I wasn't feeling all the things. >> And you had broken up with Adam at the time.

>> Towards the end. >> Okay. >> So I guess it kind of felt probably like time to move on, like by season four. >> Yeah, especially like working on another project and it was a film feeling like, okay, like let's just ending like what's happening.

>> Totally. >> Okay. We're moving on. Okay. We are both the daughters of therapists.

But in your case, you were raised by a sex therapist. >> Yes.

>> So my mom's always like, I'm not a sex therapist.

I'm more like a sex counselor and whatever. >> The woman will talk about sex to your balloon effect. Like as a daughter, like I know your mom's a therapist. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, but just like really coming with it. No problem.

I'm like, I remember going on the Wendy Williams show. And I think I used kind of linguists and they like blurred it. They had to bleep it out. I'm like, is that a bad word? Like what did I say?

You know, because my mom's always like, kind of linguists. And you know, like all the proper terms. >> Right.

“And you're like, that's what I grew up around.”

>> I'm like, isn't that what it's called? I'm sorry, eating, eating me out. You know what? I'm like, was that without a better Wendy? >> I totally got it.

That's I think fascinating where when you grow up, usually you're hiding everything from your parents, you're like, I don't want them to know. And to be raised by a sex counselor. How do you think having your mom have that profession impact the way you handled relationships growing up?

>> You know, it was always like a very open household like nudity like all of it.

You know, so feeling like really comfortable in your skin, which was great. And then talking about it all like the night I lost my virginity was very young. And my mom the next day sitting me down being like, let's talk about sex. I'm like, how did you fucking know? Like, how do you know these things?

Like, you know, it was just like that all the time. >> Is it natural you're glowing, sweetie? >> Yeah, it's like honey. There was like a weird crunchy towel in the bathroom. >> No, that's not real.

>> Not real. Not real, condoms only. I was like, very young. Okay. >> Okay, so you, so did you then tell your mom in that conversation?

>> Yeah, I was like, yeah, mom. I did it. She was like, how was it? I'm like, it was very quick and like whatever. >> I know who is like, I had my first time.

>> My mom. >> You don't enjoy it. >> No. >> You don't enjoy it. Like, I didn't really enjoy sex until I was like much older.

>> You know, I respect you for saying that because I think a lot of women I've said a lot of on my podcast. It's really, it's almost like you feel shame if you don't experience an orgasm or you're not doing it right away. And so there's this weird thing and then women don't want to say they're not because I had a lot of teammates. I was on a soccer team in college and everyone would just be talking about like, oh my god, like I had the best sex last night. And meanwhile, I'm like out of these 12 girls talking, there's no fucking way every single one of them just had an orgasm.

>> No, there's no way. >> There's no way. >> So it's like lie about it almost because you're embarrassed and you want to like fit in for sure. >> For sure. >> And you're quite wrong with me, but I love that you're normalizing like, hey, I didn't know what to later.

>> I've always been brutally honest. I've never faked an orgasm. Like I'm not that person to lie to put on airs or whatever it is.

Like it's like, no, no, never faking it.

And I think it's important to why would you lie?

“>> What is the best sex advice that your mother has given you?”

>> Okay, give it to us.

>> Thank you, shirt with us, Rachel. >> Oh, God. I'm trying to think. I mean, she's always very into like relaxing.

Like to the point where your first gyna, you know, your gyna appointment, like envision your vagina opening up like a flower and take breaths. And like, I'm like, all right, I'll try it. Like, here comes the rose, like you're joining me. But it's helpful because it makes it so relaxed and just even having those visuals, which is like super weird to some people. It can be really helpful, you know, I was like 13 the first time I went and you're young, like, it's hard to do that. >> Oh my God, you're so in your head and that's the thing about orgasm too.

Like you're so in your head and if you have that pressure or whatever, it's never going to happen. Never. >> Never. >> And it's so, but it's so hard and I just want to normalize that it is hard and like you're not alone if you're listening and you haven't had an orgasm. >> Absolutely.

>> You are not alone. >> No, you're not alone. >> I feel like in the past, I know I have definitely faked an orgasm. >> Okay. >> I feel like my friends have that I've spoken to. >> I think there's two parts.

Number one, maybe if I was in college and I was like, I'm never having an orgasm. I'm going to faked it so it can be over, which I know is so bad and I don't know that anymore. But there's another way to get them to finish. Like you say the right thing, so let's see it. >> Absolutely.

>> Here we go. >> Yeah. >> Here we go. >> There we go.

“>> And then I think the other part is like, there's also sometimes where I know like I'm having such incredible sex.”

But I just know that I'm not going to get there. >> Right. >> And so I'm going to faked because I genuinely am like, you know what? I had a great sex, but I'm just going to faked at the end because I, he probably is going to keep going because he thinks I haven't finished yet. >> Right.

>> And I know he can finish, so just go ahead. >> Right. >> Just like, what do you do, though, to like, if a guy's like, have you finished? Like the pressure, like how do you tell guys based like, no, I didn't finish? >> You know what?

I am so honest, I can have great sex. It's hard for me to orgasm. But after all, it's like, oh my god, like, you know, that was great or whatever you want to say. Like, it felt so good. And it's hard for me to orgasm.

It's nothing new with you. Like, obviously I think we can get there or sometimes if you can't, you don't say those things. But if it feels good, you want to give them props. >> Obviously the phenomenon of like porn and guys being obsessed with trying to like get a girl to score and like get a girl to like come. >> Yeah.

“>> They try so hard and they're almost, have you ever had a guy be so focused on trying to give you an orgasm?”

Like, how do you go about that basically being like tapping his head and being like, it's calm down.

>> Right. Like what do you do? >> Yeah, just pull them up. >> You pull them up. >> Oh yeah, it's just not, yeah, you know. And I think a lot of guys have thing know what they're doing.

They can tell if it's not going to go that way. You know, and I think that comes a lot with experience and age. Like with a younger dude, they might not really know, but a guy who's been doing it for a while. >> He gets to him. >> They know what's up.

I think sometimes ladies, if you're listening or shuggling with that, that's a good advice. Sometimes you literally don't need to say anything. Like, I've done that so many times where I'm like, okay, like, come fuck me. >> Right. >> Like, just pull them up.

>> Yeah, for sure. Let's go. >> And they'll be like, oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> And it's, you'll just move on.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Have you ever been in a relationship where your partner had different sex drives than you and how did you guys handle that? >> For sure. You know, that's an example of getting in your head because I have been in one where like,

or maybe I haven't been as interested after a while in having sex with the person. And in my head, like, okay, I had sex today. If I wait two or three days, okay, maybe I can do it again on Thursday and then he'll be okay. You know, but then you're in your head and then you're like, oh fuck. And I had that for a while, like, even after a relationship being stuck in that and over thinking.

Like, we had sex today, okay, window have to have it again to, you know. >> That is relatable thing. >> It's a pause, you're right there, I can imagine how many women are like, me too, Rachel. What the fuck do you do to, like, combat that? >> Right.

It's, yeah, it's, it's so tough, right? >> Yeah. >> Because battling your head and your body because they're totally different things. Even if I want to have sex, my head could be like, no, I don't really want to. And then you're stuck in that pattern of like, okay, I'm going to calculate this.

>> Do you feel like when that happened to you with that partner? Because I hear what you're saying, like, that specific is felt like you're kind of like, I'm not sure if I'm in this anymore and like, I don't know what I'm doing. >> Right. >> Did it go on for a while?

Did you end it? Did you find any, like, remedy for it?

>> Yeah, it's probably like the last year and a half of doing a pattern until it finally broke off.

>> Yeah. >> You know, and just sticking to that and being like, because I'm a very, I'm a people pleaser that carries over into relationships. But I feel like, I feel like in those moments, I feel like that's a good red flag for yourself to know. Like, hey, Henry, no, I'm letting he needs to speak. There he goes.

Oh, my God. Thank you. I think in those moments, what I would say to women is number one, it may be a good red flag for you to be like,

>> Yeah, like, listen to what I'm going on. >> Also, I would say, I have sometimes had moments where I'm just like out of it with my sex drive. >> Yeah. >> And it's not my partner. And so sometimes like, maybe finding time for yourself to master me.

>> Right. >> Which is way easier.

“>> You need to work as I'm at so much easier and quicker yourself because you know your body so well.”

>> And then I feel like sometimes for me and I don't know if you feel the same, but like sometimes when I do that, maybe I'll be a little bit more horny that day. And then I'm like, oh, I kind of would want to have sex tonight. >> Right. >> So just making sure, just checking in with yourself is really what it is about.

And it's really not about your partner. >> Yeah, it can be either. There is a difference. >> For sure. >> And total in both.

>> How do you approach bringing a toy into the bedroom for the first time with the partner?

>> Okay. So I have very little experience with this. I didn't even have a vibrator until a few years ago. Like, I was gifted one from a guy I was dating. I was like, fuck yeah, like that's awesome.

>> Okay. >> Okay. He's totally open. And that I feel like that shows a guy with awareness, right? And I had, I've only used one with that person.

And I haven't really brought it back since. But I would like to. >> Did you like using it with your partner? >> I did. Except there was like one thing we were doing and it really hurt.

Like it was not. >> Right. >> But it's like, maybe this isn't the right way to be doing this. >> But I think it can be totally fine. And it should be more accepted.

And I know there are guys out there that would feel like their ego hurt.

Like, why do you need this?

Like, I can give you this. >> No, but tongue can't buzz. >> No, like it doesn't actually vibrate. But like, just having guys that are aware. And they're like, oh, this is going to help her.

And then they actually are about you being pressured as well. I think is awesome. >> Have you used it alone, eventually with a partner? >> Yeah. >> And I think they're great.

And I feel like, I actually, it's funny. I was gifted one as well back in college. >> Like your first one? >> Yes. >> I was literally using a toothbrush at the time.

It was in the lecture. It was the back of the head. >> Hey, you know. >> And my friend Lauren was like, I went through a break up. And she was like, Alex, come with me.

I'm like, where are we going? And she brought me to a sex shop. And she was like, we need to get you a vibrator because stop using your toothbrush. I'm like, I don't brush my teeth with it. Please let me clarify.

>> Right. >> But I think it was a cute moment because then afterwards, I definitely enjoyed time alone with myself. And I enjoyed time with my partner more.

“But I agree, like you have to find the right one for sex.”

>> Right. >> And I think you're right. It takes a certain partner, someone that's confident in themselves and wants to make sure that they're pleasing you. If maybe even if your partner was like, oh, Rachel is mentioned,

sometimes it's hard for her to orgasm. Let me think outside the box because I want her to enjoy sex as much as I'm enjoying it, like, let's get her a vibrator. I think that's someone that's really confident in themselves and the relationship and wants you to enjoy yourself.

[MUSIC] >> You recently mentioned that your breakup with actor Bill Hayter was worse than child. >> Okay, I did not actually say that. I'm happy you brought that up.

>> Whoo! Let's clarify. >> I said, okay. >> Obviously he and I were not sold together. >> Right.

>> But it was during a time where you could not leave your house. You had to sit in whatever it was that you were going through. So I had to deal with this. I had to deal with being alone and taking care of my kid and everything else. And I'm being isolated and not being able to connect with any humans.

Not being able to help myself. I got into a depression. All of these things, that time having to be forced to face all of your shit. I said it was harder than childbirth. Is anything more painful?

Fuck no.

Maybe kidney stones, which definitely is a close second.

But no, I didn't say that. I'll break up sir hard, of course. Especially when you are in something that you're really into and things happen. And fucking things change and there was a pandemic. There were so many things going on.

Yeah, so it was a hard time. I cannot imagine.

“I think I know a lot of people messaged me going through breakups and pandemics.”

I mean, people were going through so much in the pandemic. Whether it was almost like a breakup within yourself of self-realizing something. There was a lot. Yeah. And so I completely understand what you're saying.

No, regard to that. Think about it. And the first thing you want to do after a breakup is get out there. And socializing, be out with your friends and do your thing. And you literally can only sit in a house with your child that you're taking care of.

You can't even take care of yourself first. Right. And just sit with life and everything that comes along with it. Totally. So it was just like about being isolated and going through the pandemic with all the things in life.

When you broke up because it was a pandemic, was it like a phone call? Like, did you even get to see this person in person when you guys broke up? It was not, yeah, it was not in person. Yeah. Well, because, you know, in the beginning when you're so isolated and you're so scared,

And, you know, he has his own family, he has to think about it.

I had my own family to think about. And like, obviously, Ryer's dad, like, you know, it was like our bubble. So like, we're not going to see anyone. He's not going to see anyone. So it was definitely done in not like your normal, like, in a person way.

“What helped you ultimately heal from the pain of that heartbreak with Bill?”

You know what? It was so interesting. Having, it was almost like a blessing in disguise. So having to be alone with all of the shit and your thoughts and not leave the house. Like, I had to look at everything.

And I'm like, okay, I've been in therapy for years, which I love. Big fan, big advocate. And like, do therapy, like, right if that helps you, like, I was reading books.

So it was doing things that I never had time to do.

And it gave me that time to just really do things for myself. Like, yes, I'm looking after my kid, but there was obviously shared time. So I would have time absolutely alone alone alone. Yeah. And I got to do the things that I always wanted to do when it really helped me.

And it was like, oh, I'm focusing just on me. And it's not about the guy or, you know, the relationship. It's literally just about me as a human. I was happy that I was forced to sit in like the pain or the hurt or, you know, all the feelings that come along with it because I got to get through it.

Some people will hold onto that for years. Like, because they'll distract themselves. So you don't actually face those feelings or feelings. I mean, if we can talk about that a little bit because I know a lot of people can relate to that topic. Of like, kind of knowing something maybe isn't right.

But, and again, being in a pandemic, like, how did you, or I don't know if it was your decision, but come to that decision of like, I'm, this is gonna end even if it's a pandemic.

“Like, how did you get to that point to end it or whoever ended it?”

I think it was the stress of the situation in the world that led to it. No one knew how to be or react, you know? And I think it was just a result of that alone, the stress of it all. Oh, really? Yeah.

Because do you think of the pandemic hadn't happened? Maybe. I mean, I would think it probably would have went on maybe a little longer, but then in retrospect, looking at it, you're like, obviously, it would have ended because it did. Yeah.

Like, it could not. But maybe it was ended faster. Yeah. So I guess that's kind of like a good way to look at like a positive because I think a lot of times, like, we can get deeper into it and more time goes by.

But ultimately, it's not the one. Right. It was like I said, blessing in disguise in my eyes. Have you through relationships now? Like, when you think of the one and like what your wants are, how have you found that through

“what you've gone through with your past relationships in your mind?”

I think that's everything I think people. And as you could older, you know, 40 years old, you go through all these experiences. And you're like, oh, I'm taking things from each thing, right?

So there's always a positive because it's like, I recognize something in this relationship

that did not work for me. So the next time I need this and I've gotten to a place now where I know exactly what I want, what I need. And for the first time, I'm not afraid to say it. Can you give us an example of something from any relationship you've ever been in that you're like,

this is something I know personally for me that just like doesn't work for me in a relationship. And then also a need. Like, someone controlling's never good, you know? And I like I said, people pleasing, I was definitely weaker and I could like be subjected to that and be like, okay, like, yeah, I'll just do whatever he says.

And that's a pattern with me and a lot of the relationships I've had. So that's something like huge that I'm like, no. I need to make my decisions and I need to stick to what I know and be strong. Like, the strength in me would always be a lot weaker in relationships when I was younger. And now being older, I know exactly like, how to speak up for myself, I should say.

Have you gotten to a point though where like you can recognize when it's happening? Yes. And then know how to get out of it? Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things because when you're in something and you don't see it, then you get out of it.

It's so clear that now that you can recognize it, because you've acknowledged it, you can recognize it. Anytime it comes up, you're like, oh no, he's doing this thing. Yep, I'm not okay with it. What does it mean? What are you like these? This is something I definitely need an apartment.

I need someone, make me coffee in the morning, like, fuck yes, thank you. Honestly, I create just like on top of me missionary, like some dudes that like aren't down with that. I need a man on top of me sometimes. You know what I mean? And like, that's another thing sexually. I'm like, yes, like own it. I need to feel it.

Like, carries out insects. I need to feel the weight of a man on top of me. It's like, I can so relate to that. Guys, if anyone's listening, Rachel needs coffee and missionary. I mean, I feel like it's doable.

I am not. Okay, okay.

“It's he bringing you coffee in the morning and doing missionary?”

Fuck yeah. That's actually great. Okay. Is there anything that you look back and you're like, there's a steam throughout people you've dated? A theme.

I do. I have noticed, this isn't, this is a generalization, right? I think I've dated quite a few actors and I do think that some of them, not all, have very like self-involved tendencies. And I think that's just kind of come along with a territory a lot of the time.

Right? Not saying all of them, that I've dated, have them, but it is a theme. And I don't like it. Do you think you would ever stray from the actor? Oh, yeah, for sure.

I always tell myself, like, never again.

And then, of course, you know, you're another project, another person. But no, you know, and I will say, you know, with respect for my daughter's father. Of course. He is not like that. I get what you're saying of like, you don't want to fall into that tendency.

And then you're on a movie set. Is it hard when you're single and on sets to like not get involved in that kind of stuff? Well, for sure, because think about it. Any workplace you're in, you're surrounded by the people, you're around them every day. And you'll meet different personalities, and sometimes you'll really have chemistry with someone.

Doesn't matter where you are. Yes, it's a set, but it's literally someone you're spending mostly 12 hours a day with. So you're going to get to know these people better than you would get to know someone you're just casually dating in the beginning because it's literally.

“That's why I feel like a lot of people do get into like work, place, relationships.”

I'm not encouraging it. But like any job you're at, if you work in sales, real estate, it doesn't have to be entertainment. And you are with that person all day every day. And it starts as a friendship, right? It starts as your cordial, you're going to get to the coffee together, you're going to craft services together.

Right. And then talking about your life and all of a sudden that blossoms into like, oh, yeah, maybe you could be.

No, though it could always end.

Of course. And if it's going to potentially always end. Be friends. Be friends. Like protect yourself and like make decisions of like before you jump in.

I think some people that have maybe like, I think actors are lucky because it's like then you're off to your next project. Right. It's like summer camp a lot of the time. Yes. Yes.

And if you're in a nine to five sweet heart, that's not something. That'd be all day round, baby. So make sure you're going to be cozy if he's in the cubicle. And like a couple of weeks later, you guys break up. Yeah.

For sure. That's difficult. Way to full. Okay. You get very personal on your pod.

Has it been cathartic to talk about your personal life on your podcast? It has like I'm still a very private person. Like I won't like name names or you know, but I want. We wanted to create a space that and you know what? Before we started, I listened to your first call her daddy.

And I was like, oh, my father already podcast. Yes. The fact that you were so just transparent and like didn't give a fuck. Like you said every, you know what I mean? It was a text.

It mean I said I want you to degrade me. Yes. Oh my god. That's awful. God bless.

“I would remember that recording that to this day.”

You do. Oh my god. I remember going in there and just feeling, I'm just going to say everything that happened this week. Right. I had no idea what I was doing.

I'd never listened to a podcast in my life before I reported that.

I think my voice was so affected, so fake. I was like, hi, guys. This is Alex. I can't listen to that. Well, I get it.

It's like watching your first project. You're like, oh my god. What is that? I get it. But that being said, just the very like transparency and just being super honest and open.

I fucking loved, you know. And so my best friend Olivia and I were like, we want to create a safe space where women or even men, you know, we have men coming on now just being open and honest and getting into it and not afraid to speak whatever's on their mind. Like, obviously we go there about sex, but we, it's life, right? And we're moms and it's a whole different thing and it's different phase of life, but it feels really good to have our own platform to do that.

I love that. And I think that, listen, I have had some where I come up with fake names for people and then people will still find it out. So you're private, Rachel. I'll give you that, don't come up with like, oh, this one's door number three. This is Slim Shady and don't do that.

But when you talk about the themes of what you're going through, that is relatable because we all can relate in some capacity. We're all human beings going through depression, anxiety, happiness, stress, sadness, like hard times with your romantic with your family, with your friends. And so I think like it's cool to have anyone sit down in front of a microphone and be open. Like I think everyone can appreciate that. I would hope so and I think it's accessible and people that kind of crave that authenticity.

Yeah. And I think for me it's like, okay, I can speak personally about my own experiences. But I don't want to like bring other people in that don't have a mic in front of them and can't either defend or share their stuff.

And I'm still trying to figure it out.

I know, right? You had to like push the boundary. For sure. For sure. For respecting, I got it respecting people in your life.

Absolutely. I think I read, you don't introduce your child to people you date. I've learned from, you know, mistakes in the past that you don't want to do it too quickly. Yeah. But luckily, she's only seven now and she was a lot younger before and whatnot.

So it probably didn't resonate as much as it would now per se.

“But yeah, I think that's super important because I don't want it to look like some revolving door or,”

Yeah, I don't know how it's going to affect her and she's number one for me. Like totally hands down before work, before men, before anything. And so I don't take that lightly. Have you had a lot of people that are respectful of that? Yeah, I've only had positive experiences luckily.

But also that speaks to like me knowing what I need and want now. So I'm not going to entertain anything if they don't understand the kid comes first. And I think that's great. And it's also like, ladies be fucking confident.

Like you did the most incredible thing in the world, which is bring a human being onto this earth.

And like if someone is not going to be positive and accepting of however you want to handle the boundary. Yeah. It's held them back themselves and find someone better. For sure.

“And a lot of women have those insecurities, I think.”

Mom's or whatever age you are at that point and just thinking like, Oh, or guys going to want it. It's like a fuck that. Yeah. Totally. Being a public figure, most of your life, is there anything that you would like to share that you think maybe is like a misconception about you or people maybe think about you that you're like,

Oh, I would like to clarify and kind of just say my piece on that. God. You know, I feel like I've been fortunate enough to have mostly a positive response. And I think, you know, I love that. It's important to me like how I carry myself setting an example, whatever, but I'm super fucking crass and like have a dirty sense of humor.

And I'm not afraid to show it and I think it'll come through on broad ideas like the new podcast. But I feel very fortunate, like I feel like I've gone through this time of my life where I've been, you know, working or whatever. In a decent way where I can be proud that my daughter will see how I carry myself.

“What do you attribute that to because I think a lot of people like fuck like this shit like I got me fucked up by being in the public weather was maybe they didn't come from the best family to give them values, right?”

No, that's yeah. Like what do you think you why you just end up having such a good like straight and narrow path of there's not a lot of drama around you? I think that the support system you have around you is huge. All my best friends are my best friends since high school and before in junior high.

Never straight from that.

I don't make new friends often. And my family, I have a very supportive family and I grew up that way and loving my open mom clearly. And I think that is such a big part of it. And people around you that know you so well, like if you have a moment, you're like, no, no, no, no, no. Like get that fuck back down here.

Oh, what are you doing? And I have that and we trust that and it's like the friends like, no, you can't borrow my new dress. Like it's that comfort ability of like, I haven't warning you at all. Yeah, you can be real with you. You can be real totally. No, I really respect you saying that. And I feel like it's really cool to get to sit down with you because we respect your work so much.

And so now it's cool to be able to sit with Rachel Billson and talk with you and get to know you. I'm such a fan of yours. Oh my god. Like it's just such a cool thing and this is great. This is so beautiful what you're doing. I love it and inspired me to, you know, just be able to go there. Like you gave me the confidence is like, you can be the fuck you are and say what the fuck you want.

And still be a successful woman in this world and it's awesome. Rachel, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.