Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief (FBF)

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper. We call her, Daddy Gang. [MUSIC PLAYING] Riley Kyo, welcome to Colorado, Daddy.

Thank you. I am such a big fan. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Of course, I huge, Daisy Jones in the 6th floor.

Oh, cool. Like, binge the whole thing. Really? Love it. Thanks for watching.

My husband was like, you could take a break. I'm like, no, no, it's kind of one of those where you just got to get to get to get to the end. Yeah, I got to get to the end. It was awesome.

What was your favorite part of playing that role?

“I think getting to learn to sing and play guitar”

was my favorite part because it was-- I think that's one of my favorite things about acting in general is learning a whole new skill set. And this one was very normally, you do a few rehearsals or do, if you're training to do--

I don't know-- to be a dancer or whatever.

I don't know, I've never done something so involved.

I haven't had to fully learn to sing and play guitar. So I found that really fun. Wait, you were doing full voice lessons. We were doing, yeah, we had band practice and we great day. And it was like a year long.

But we needed it. None of us, not a few of us, had never picked up an instrument or sang. Was there ever a point in your life that you would have considered a music career?

Never. No. Never. No, I still would never. I mean, I'm not a singer.

I feel like you have a good voice and let's say auto dancing. It's fine. No, no, they did not attend it, but I have a fine voice. I just got by. But I'm a realist, and I know I'm not a singer.

The fact that you're telling me they didn't edit your voice, you have a good voice. They didn't edit it. I think. You call them, they're like, they'll be a bunch of auto dancing.

I think they, I don't think they uttered to do. I think the whole point was because it was meant to sound in 1970s that you wouldn't do that. Yeah, yeah. You sounded gorgeous, okay.

I felt proud that I was able to do it. Because I was like a conversation about potentially getting like vocal stunt doubles. So they got it. And so I felt really determined to make it work.

And I feel proud we made it work. Now I, I girl, I don't think I'm like the best singer in the world, and I, you know, that's fine. You made it work with life. I made it work.

I love how you're like, oh, like I, no, no, no, I like never

saying, from my research, you and Dakota Johnson were in a band together in New York City, don't line in my face. This is so funny. This comes up so often.

And like I think that we need to do something here. Because yes, we were in a band with the band was me and her sitting with her brother around a table in her apartment in New York with photo booth, like doing covers of songs.

“But here's the thing, neither of us were competent singers.”

So we were just kind of like all singing together. Oh, so you were, you were all competing for like the lead were all the lead were all the lead were all the lead were all the lead were all the lead. Wait, what was the band called?

Focie porn. Focie porn for color daddy. We, I was obsessed. I had a band at one point. And I was like so committed.

Did you really? Yeah, but it was so bad. What did you do?

So yeah, well, here's the thing.

You know, I, I started as like the electric guitarist. Cool. But that is like loosely saying that the only song was electric guitar. Yeah, I really, I'm a loose guitar player.

I like looked incredible holding it. But the minute I would get going, it was, I was giving nothing. I knew how to play the like. That, that, that, that, what ever that song is.

I could do those like three little things that was all I knew. Our band was called the aliens. It was a big deal. It was in my basement. And then we changed it to green jelly.

Cool.

“Were the other people in the band also loose musicians?”

Ever almost loose. Okay. Ever almost loose. Okay. We were kind of just there for the vibes.

Yeah. Our sign was on like printer paper with like a little marker. Right. IG, it was the thing. I actually paid my neighbors at one point like 25 cents

to come watch us perform. Wow. They were upset that we wasted their time. So like I'm a big band girl. So Dakota and I didn't get like that far into it.

We kind of like it lasted maybe like three days. Oh my god. And then it was over. The band broke up. Good to know.

Good to know. We, how did you guys know each other? Look, when did you become friends? We became friends because we both grew up in L.A. And just there was some kind of,

I had a friend who was friends with her boyfriend. And we met at like an in and out parking lot. And then we went to all the same parties in L.A.

And then I became friends with her boyfriend. And then so I went to go see his band play.

And she was always there.

And she was like the coolest girl, the coolest. She still is. And then we just, I don't know if it came friends. And don't you love when like people are obsessed with like celebrity friendships?

We're like, no, no, come on, tell us more. You were like, we're just, we're hung out, we're at in and out. Sometimes we hang out, we're talking about. Like it's not, yeah.

“I think as it makes people feel like closer to you guys”

of like, you guys are obviously both like, very cool, interesting people. And so I think to know that you guys are friends, people like, I'm like, come on, give me more tea. I can give you tea.

I just don't really have any. But there's anything you can think of. I mean, I will give you a tea giver. OK, OK, good. You did show up today.

I'm like, we don't have to cry. I just don't want you to be a pressure. I don't want you to feel pressure at all. If you hate any of my questions, let me know. We can pivot.

Deal. OK, good. How do you think? Hey, what? Hey, I'm joking.

I'm just kidding. I'm like, listen, I like it. I do love that you were 30 minutes early and you brought no one. Yeah. Can I tell you, I've had people come to my studio with like a whole 20 people, 10

people, 5 people, but the solo, solo is the first.

Here's my answer. I'm not like technically on like a press tour right now. So I have no problem going places all by myself, you know? I love that. And I like actually enjoy it.

I am the same way whenever I go on a podcast, which is rare. I'm like no one come with me. I'm going to let it rip. Yeah. Let God go with me.

The cool thing about not having a publicist here is I can say whatever I want. For sure.

“Then she's going to call you after me like, what was it like?”

I don't remember. We talked for almost an hour. Who knows? Exactly. Just let it be.

You know what I mean? It's fine. You're not going to get canceled from this. How would your friends describe you? Oh my gosh, that's such a hard question.

I don't know. I have no idea. Like in what way? Like this. Like how would they describe you like if Dakota was in the room right now?

Like what would she say about you? We should we could call her also. Do you want to call her? Hold on. That will be fucking funny.

Go get your phone. So she didn't answer. Okay. Let's call another friend. Okay.

All you're asking is how would you describe me as a friend? How would you describe me? I want to show. Give me a good answer. So do you want them to be famous or not?

I mean, famous is fun. Famous is more fun. Okay. Like all called John. Because people every I do this a lot of the time a lot and where people will be like,

"How would your friends or what friends could we speak to about you for this interview?" And I gave like my all my closest friends and they're like, "But what about like famous?" Like, they're like, "No, no, no, we don't care about Cassidy." Yeah, they're like, "We don't want, you know, yeah." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's so funny. Okay. Should I try Zoey Crabbit? Yeah, let's give her a go. The napbo baby phone.

I'm a bummer. Okay. Yeah. Oh my god, hello. Hi, wait, you're on air.

Hello. I'm chewing, sorry. So, what are you eating? What are you eating? I mean, these toast, I mean, I mean, I mean, raisin toast.

So, I mean, raisin toast with butter. Okay, so I'm on a podcast and they asked me to call a friend to describe how you would describe me. Cause a friend, as a friend. As a friend. I would describe you as a writer, die.

Like, you are down for whatever, you will always show up all the time.

You're very consistent. Like, may I feel like me and you will like not talk or see each other for like six months. And then it's like, we just pick up where we left off.

“And I think you're really good at keeping secret.”

I'm going to tell those on this pod. And you're like actually, um, and you're incredibly loyal. And you're funny, you're funny as hell, and you're honest, you're honest as hell. Yeah. That's true.

That's true. Thanks so much. Thank you. You all come. All right.

Love you. Love you. Bye. All right. One more.

Okay. You're just like, you're such a bitch. You're just like a bitch. You're a bitch? I'm really?

I'm really? I'm really? It's a nice as person in the world. Okay. Thank you for doing that first of all.

Imagine if you're like, I'm just kidding. I'm not on a podcast. I'm just like feeling needy to keep going. Yeah, right. Okay.

Those, that feels pretty accurate. I don't know. I didn't really hear much. She said I was loyal. She said you were loyal.

I blocked out. Really good at keeping secret. I got right. You're like, no, no. I am on air.

Don't say anything. Don't say anything.

No, all of that was lovely. Okay. And when she said you were a bitch, I'm like, that is simply opposite of what I'm getting. You are very like gentle soul. Thank you.

“Um, I think that I would say I would, I am a loyal friend.”

I do really care about my friends. And, you know, I love, hope. I, I think. Well, let's just lay it out. We'll let you play.

Okay. Let's talk about the book. It is so fascinating. Like what you wrote about. Yeah.

From here to the great unknown.

First of all, just to like tell the daddy gang my audience.

Like, how did this book come to be? This book came to be because my mother was in the middle of writing her autobiography. And in December, she came to me and said, you know, I need help. Like, she couldn't, she didn't really, I think she just got to a point where she was feeling frustrated and, and she, she didn't like talking about herself.

So writing it on a biography was difficult. And she asked if I would help her. Um, and then she passed away a month later. So I just found myself like it was just this thing that I had to do. So I just completed her memoir, which was, you know, very intense.

How long did it take you? Oh, my gosh. Um, probably about a year. Yeah. Wow.

Start to finish.

“How do you think like having that project to work on after your mom passed?”

Like, helps you work through your feelings? Well, I think that when I started working on the book, it was only like three four months after she'd passed away. So it was very, uh, like, intense. And I didn't really want to be doing it to be honest.

Um, it felt like this thing I had to complete. And so I was a little bit resistant in the beginning. And it's also like, it's, it's very out of my comfort zone to write, uh, a story, or tell all the things, like, my family's personal. All these vulnerable things about my family.

Right. Um, it's not something that I would do otherwise, you know. So it was, there was a lot, I felt very, very resistant.

But ultimately, I was doing it for her.

And it's what she wanted. And I knew how much she wanted to finish her autobiography and share her story. Um, so people could understand her more. And also so she could relate to people. And she's been through so much.

“And I think that largely why she did this was to kind of share her experience in grief and addiction.”

And these very human things. And so yeah. So I would say that I, I did it, but I wasn't like, it's really exciting to do it. No, I think like hearing you even say that is interesting when you said like, my natural reaction isn't to just like spill all family secrets. And I think just to clarify for anyone that is not like familiar with like your family lineage.

Yeah. You are Elvis's granddaughter. Your mom was Elvis's only daughter. Yeah. And so I get what you're saying is like, it's a very famous family that you come from.

So to write basically like a big book being like, here's detail by detail it went down. Usually we don't get that from very famous families. Yes. And you know, particularly in my family growing up and with my mom, she was extremely private. She hated talking to the press.

She didn't want to be famous. Like she was born into a situation she really didn't enjoy. And growing up in the world we grew up in was very private, very secretive, very like everything was a security issue. Like there was no talking to friends about things like our family stuff was, you know, everything was very private. So it was a lot of I had to push through that sort of uncomfortable feeling of like sharing all this information.

But the other thing is he's like as a person, I'm a very honest person. And I also couldn't imagine so she like she was uncomfortably honest. So I think I I couldn't have imagined a version of her book where she didn't, you know, share all these things. Yeah. And go all in.

Yeah. Your baby photo was sold for $300,000 on the cover of people magazine. Like that is insane. And what's insane is like $300,000 was like $300,000.

$300,000 was like a million dollars.

Like a post to a million dollars. Like you're so wanted. Well, you used to be. Can you like looking back at your childhood, obviously growing up in this famous family? What is something that was definitely not normal?

That like you got pretty used to because you were just like, oh, I thought this was our reality.

Well, it was just a lot of like thing like it was very like high security and like for going somewhere.

“It was like lots of people following us and very like intense and chaotic and like going through, you know, I don't know.”

Like how are you so calm? Oh, I don't know. I'm not. I'm not at all. I'm going to get internally. Internally. I'm burning down. Okay. It's the external you're keeping it all together. But internally.

Yes. Okay. How would you have described yourself as a kid? I was very quiet. Um, really internal.

I wasn't, uh, I, I got called shy a lot, but I actually wasn't shy. I just was very internal. I just didn't have a lot to say and and just was, yeah, I was very quiet. I was like that actually, most of my life until I started to realize that people would perceive that as rude. So I really pushed myself to, you know, come out of my shell.

I don't want to be talking. But I've got to be here. Oh, that's so interesting. So if like you're in, if you're going through something in your life, whether it's like a fight with your partner or a friend, like, do you just go silent? No.

No, no, no.

I'm very, I'm very emotional.

I'm just not somebody like at a dinner party. Got it. If a lot of people are talking, I prefer to listen. It's just that. It's not like I'm like internalized.

I'm very, I'm very open with my emotion. Got it. I'm just not like a big chatter. Love. Yeah, love.

Welcome to an hour sitting down with me. Let's go, girl. I am now. I wasn't. I've grown.

I've changed. You're doing great. I don't know. Where am I? The book obviously switches between like your mom and her perspective than yours.

Yeah.

“How do you think you guys were similar as teenagers?”

Well, I think I also had a moment of like rebellious moment. I had that like where I would sneak out and, you know, hang out with people I shouldn't wasn't allowed to and getting arrested and, you know, you got arrested. I did. I've never said that.

You're like, wait. This is why I'm publishing. Where's my publishing? Where's my publishing? Come in.

No one's cursing you. Wait, that's kind of like, I was arrested once. Yeah. Is it a good mug shot? I never saw it.

What? I know. You need to make t-shirts. I was a miner. So luckily, I think it was like, sort of like an underrated.

Yeah. A lot of people that I know got those. So you're like, I was like so terrified to get one because I like needed to go play like soccer and if you had one, you couldn't play. It was a whole thing.

Right. But like I was there. You got a mug shot. You didn't get it. I didn't get a mug shot.

“But now in hindsight, I'm like, oh, would have been like a little edgy.”

So I had an edgy moment. No. Before just drinking. It was for. No, God.

I can't say this. I felt that I was for breaking in. I mean, what were? Um, so it was actually, so I went to a party at my friend's house. Okay.

But I didn't know that it wasn't my friend's house. It was a house for sale. Um, and so most people like the police came and most people like got away. And then about 10 of us got arrested. My mom was pissed.

Did she try to like get it not in the papers? No. She was like, this is on you girl. Yeah. Oh my god.

Luckily it didn't get it wasn't in the papers. Was your mom someone that would punish you? Like, are you getting grounded? I was grounded. Oh, yeah.

I was grounded for like three months. And I was grounded on my like 16th or 15th birthday or something. Yeah. That's tough. I was grounded.

And she was in Las Vegas. And I had to call her and tell her to come back from Vegas. And typically I've been prison.

I've never told anyone this.

Like mom, I'm in jail. She's like, I'm on the strip bitch. What? No. Yeah.

So she, she's like, I can't get there. So she sent my aunt to come get me. So, you know, I had a moment. I had a moment like a moment as a teenager. And she also did love.

Yeah. Okay. You write a lot about like the different relationships that your mom had romanticly throughout your childhood. When you were five, your parents got divorced because your mom wanted to marry Michael Jackson. How was this explained to you as a kid?

Like that they were getting divorced. So my mom, I was like, we were in Florida. And I was sitting on her lap.

And I took like the way I received it was that he wasn't my dad anymore.

“And it was like, it's so memorable to me because I just was destroyed.”

I didn't understand what a divorce was. So I just thought like he's not my dad now. But the great thing was shortly after like they were so close.

And they really cared about keeping them, you know, our family dynamic the same.

So he was at our house and staying over.

“And so he was there a lot. So I think I kind of forgot about it.”

So you got to see like a very loving relationship between the two of them, even though they got divorced. Yeah. Like a really unique, like it was a very unique experience, especially in the 90s. You know, to have both of your parents sort of like brother and sister really close living together. He lived with us for a lot of my life when my mom had other partners and other husbands. He would live in the guest house and so my what was modeled to me was when you break up with someone you stay friends with them.

And I really like apply that to most of my relationships because that was kind of all that I that was what I saw with my parents. And it was really beautiful. I mean, they were they were like best friends and I don't know if they should have been married. We when you break up with someone or they break up with you and you're staying friends with them. Have any of your past relationships been like Riley. Like we broke up. Why are like are you still trying to say so amicable and people ever confused by like how amicable you are?

No, because I think that like it was ever a forced thing. I think I just I don't know how I did it that there were there was like one. Relationship that there was you know no friendship there, but for the most part all the other ones. I don't even know it wasn't I wasn't like consciously thinking about it we just ended up friends.

“It's just kind of like how you were raised to think that's how you go about it, which is probably in hindsight like a.”

I don't know do we think it's a better way to go about it like my feeling was always like this is a person that I love that I spent a lot of time with why wouldn't I have them in my life.

Yeah, if you know unless it was like some like crazy unhealthy situation yes, of course it's uncomfortable for a minute, but I think ultimately if it's someone that I really cared that much about. Yeah, but I'd want them in my life somehow. We just skirted past the big name Michael Jackson. Okay, let's go back for a second. So on top of like your family already being obviously so famous how did your life get even crazier when Michael entered the picture because he had his own. Slow of like paparazzi and people following him and immediate empire essentially. Our life wasn't crazier because that was already that already existed like the press and the crazy the paparazzi and you know all that.

But her life I think when she saw Michael's life there were things that he had that she didn't have like she didn't have a plane at the time or you know things like that and so her she want she then was like oh I'm I should have a plane and I should have a. You know this and that and so our life and that way kind of got bigger because she before that she was my dad and my dad their life was very simple not not with the press and the craziness but in terms of like at home like she didn't have 10 million.

You know you didn't need all of that and I think that changed. How did your mom try to protect you and your brother from the paparazzi during all this so funny because I get tagged in these photos all the time where we're wearing like a hat and glasses and I'm like what is that. It's so weird. Like like a hiding I don't know like I guess they attempted to hide our faces but it was like impossible what is the most like extravagant thing Michael did for you and your brother there was a lot of like closing down things for us well it was kind of like the only way that our family could do things like if we wanted to go to a toy store or like something like that like.

Or ride rides or you know so so it wasn't that I don't know it was necessarily done for us or for just for like our family situation where we had to shut the you know the toy stores and stuff but there was one memorable time in London where. We were in the toy store so it was just my brother and I in the whole toy store and we were just like going Florida Florida Florida and like filling up our thing and yeah that was the first thing that comes to mind but I don't know if it was for us or just like the way that our life was you know.

I think she was such a she was an amazing parent and she wanted us to have I think like her father did these amazing experiences all the time for me personally I.

“I think that the problem there could be for some that when you're used to so much it's hard to find joy and simple things and so I.”

Really want my children to be able to find joy and just you know playing in the backyard and doing normal kid stuff and not need like elephants and circus and all these things all the time so that's probably what I would do differently but I think her intention was really. You know wanting to to give everything she could to her kids have you had a hard time like finding happiness in the simple things since you were around such wealth in big moments I think that there was a time in my life where. I was like oh. We're not going to you know let me think of a good example of this like. Like even going to dinner growing up was like 50 people it was like a big deal everything was a big deal all the time so.

There was more of like a loneliness that would that I experienced in my 20s when our life was a bit different of. I was just used to having so many people around and everything being so intense that I felt a little bit lonely.

“When it was when my life was smaller I think I think that's like a relatable concept I think like I always talk to my friends who when you get older and you're like life is changing and and families and thanks giving this like.”

Even if you look at what we see in like hallmark movies and everything like the bigger seems happier right like a big family at a table and everyone is there and when you have a smaller unit it feels like this isn't as fun this isn't as. When really like it could be more intimate and you can have stronger connections and it's not it doesn't mean it's not fun yeah but there's this feeling it's that it's that exact phenomenon but like. Probably just a little different but yes it's like probably the same feeling you'd get a few you know came from a huge family and had big family gatherings all the time and then it was just you know.

You know you where you moved somewhere and you're just like this feels lonely absolutely. Obviously finishing because I have to acknowledge it with the Michael stuff like obviously. Before your mom's relationship with him there were allegations of abuse and that he assaulted children. Then your mom went on to marry him and you spent a good amount of time with him like were there any adults in your life that were like wait.

“I don't know if you should be spending time at neverland. I don't know if we want you to be there like was your dad nervous.”

I was never told anything so even as it's and it's actually not something I ever asked as an adult why do you think I don't know.

I think it just like was what it was like I didn't I don't know just never came to mind I guess. I would imagine that my dad was really heartbroken and reading the news and I'm sure that I'm just imagining. I would imagine he said all kinds of things to my mom you know that we didn't know about but nothing like the the way my parents parented. It's very much like we don't fight around the kids we don't ever say anything around them there was no like we didn't know anything. We didn't know about any allegations we didn't know that we were had no awareness about.

As an adult when you look back on that time of your life like how do you feel about it now. The one thing I know is that they were in love and that they're love for one another was genuine you know because I was there and I remember everything else like I don't know because I wasn't there for you know. When your mom would break up with these people and she would like find a different partner at some point in your life like how do you think that affected your own attachment style. That's really interesting I definitely would be really upset like when she would break up with people Michael her other partners I would cry I get mad at her.

I really was upset like I'd get mad at her I'd be pissed you know not knowing what happened but I was always just mad at my mom for the breakups because so it really affected me my attachment style.

That's like she should have stayed with Danny and I know that she was you know someone who when things got boring or mundane or difficult she was like see you know and I think that there's this part of me that feels like. I don't know staying with if you find if you're so lucky to find somebody who is like you're kind of best friend in the way that that they were. To try and like you know make it work make it work yeah that was what I thought was interesting the book was like basically saying like when your mom was.

When she was passing like wasn't he like the last person there basically for her yeah and through all of these different relationships. Just moments but really the through line was like it seems like your mom and dad like always kind of stayed by each other side which I can imagine for your own like romantic situation I know you're married now but like prior to your husband. Were were you ever feeling that through line of like this is getting boring I'm going to run or have you know what I mean I definitely had that when I was younger.

“When I was younger I was very hard dependent on like I was not interested in you know sticking around yeah and I definitely like didn't have the best track record there so that I think would tie to sort of my mom's way of like.”

Moving on once the thrill this thrill is you know whatever that when I was a teenager I was like a that makes sense yeah I'm curious like. Was there any part of you that was ever nervous to get married no which is so stupid. I was I mean I was young I was 25 when I got married I was a little girl you weren't nervous I wasn't nervous I was so excited I didn't I didn't know what marriage was I hadn't been in a relationship longer than three years you know like I didn't think about it yeah I love that for you I mean that's like really interesting to hear because like.

No why love these type of conversations it's like you never know what you're going to get because some people could be in your situation be like I was so.

Petrified because I didn't want to do what my mom had done or you know you're going to like play out what she was doing but you're like no I like went right into it. Yeah I didn't really think I was yeah it wasn't impulsive or anything I just like knew that he was the person I knew he was the person I was meant to have kids with I just knew it so I don't know I neither of us were like. Neither of us ever put any pressure on it either it wasn't like we still don't we're not like. Our marriage will never fail and we're going to be together till we're 80 you know like we're both kind of like if we ever were unhappy we would.

“That's what you get divorced right you know you're real is we're real is we're like whatever you talk about how your mom was very open with you and that sometimes could feel like a curse what do you mean by that.”

Do you everyone you know my brother or my dad like we're very enmeshed I think. Wow yeah so would you ever find yourself though like roles reverse I feel like sometimes people get to the point where they almost become the mother to their mother. Did you ever play therapists with your mom? Yes I think that there was a certain point probably in my mid 20s when I sort of became more of the caretaker in the relationship and I think it was around when she.

became addicted to opiate because she was always sort of the like.

Leader in our family and then she had you know fell into her addiction and at that point I sort of. Yeah our dynamic change. Can we talk about that because. So many friends and I have these conversations now I have people that write in and it's like such a mind fuck when you become the adult in the dynamic with your parent. Because you're like we know it's inevitable it's so weird and hard and it's like.

“You have to have so you either have so many conversations or you don't and it just is what it is and you're left feeling.”

A little bit like an identity crisis because.

Your parent who you could always go to and be like the child to your kind of now like we why are you relying on me so heavily for things that like.

I think the weirdest part about it in my experiences they don't notice they're doing it.

Who's seeing this?

Like it's such an unsaid thing.

Yeah. No you're so right like they're not aware but you're aware. Yeah. And I'm like that's awkward because you can't say like I don't want to be your parent. Like grow up what is going on.

“And that's why I think it's such a mind fuck because then the people or the person that you're most likely going to in your past.”

Go to to complain about something like that is your mom. See go to the other one. Right. See go to your dad. And then he's losing it too.

Oh shit. Girl going insane.

It's really interesting watching my parents get older now.

Like do you feel like you have that dynamic with your parents? I started to in a moment and I have been doing a lot of therapy. Yeah. And they have like my mom and I have talked about like our therapy journeys because I'm like. We got to try to not make this happen.

Yeah. Like we even if we're equals as adults. Mm-hmm.

“But I think and it's and it's what are the ways if you're comfortable and yeah sharing that you find yourself in that situation.”

Like how. I think like as basic as like calling me for help on everything where you're like. How did we get here? How did we get here? How did we get here?

Yeah. How did we get through life where I have to say like that is something that I really am going to try my best. I don't know if it's just inevitable but like as a parent. Like I don't ever want my kids to feel like they have to take care of me. Yeah.

Or unless they literally do. Yeah. But I mean like emotionally. You know, I don't want I don't want my children to feel like my happiness is there. Yeah.

Responsibility. Same way. But I also feel like so many people have that point of like I'm going to do it so differently than my parents. And it feels like every generation says that and then when we keep fucking up.

“I think there's another you know, I think you just have to accept that you're going to do stuff wrong.”

Yeah. And then you're going to end up like your your child is going to end up talking to the therapist. It's just part of being a parent. So I for me I just I try not, you know, read into it. Read or read anything.

But I think there's so much pressure, you know, to improve on the future generation as you know, whatever. And so I think, I don't know. I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. No. No.

You were like, and pivot. No. I know exactly what you're talking about. Also, I love that you having a daughter like. Did your mom ever talk to you about the trauma and the grieving process of like losing her father?

And like how she dealt with that because I think you write a lot in the book of like seeing her in a moment like crying and drinking and crying over Elvis's death.

But then it's like how she never talked about her grief.

She only would talk about him. So she never would I don't think she processed her grief. Like I think that because her grief was so public. She would hide a lot of her feelings because she they felt personal like something she could keep to herself. So I think because of that, she didn't really talk about the grief so much.

And I think as in her late 40s and like when she was 50, she started realizing that she hadn't really ever talked about it to anybody. Which I think is also common with older generations, you know, nobody was talking about at all. All their things. You obviously have experienced grief. I mean, you lost your brother and your mom in the span of couple years, two years.

How have you thought about like how to process grief in terms of one for yourself, but also for your daughter because right like you watched your mom not be able to handle it till she was about 40 50 and start to feel it. Like have you taken different steps? The only like step that I've actively taken is to like feel my feelings. So good step.

It feels a lot harder than it sounds. Yes, you know, and some of them have been extremely unbearable. And whether that's grief or anxiety, sadness, like, I think that feeling my feelings is, has been the only conscious thing that I've done and trying to be present in my feelings. Could you give just because I know there's so many people that do deal with family members that have addiction?

Like, how did your relationship with your mom change when she became addicted to pain killers?

Yeah, you know, story, but more than just my mother. And it's been a really interesting life because I've been surrounded in a way with people suffering from addiction,

but there's never anything I can really do about it.

And I found myself kind of going like, what is the lesson here? To be around people harming themselves and nothing I do will change it.

“And so the only thing that I could do was surrender to what is, you know?”

And of course, I mean, with my mom, there was a, you know, years of me trying to drag her into, you know, rehab or get her help or, like, so much effort, you know? And thinking like, this is going to be effective every time and not really being present in the fact that the person sitting across for me is not participating in my plan. You know, so I just was, I mean, that was, I tried really hard to, you know, keep all of these plates spinning. And then ultimately it resulted in, like, you know, addiction sort of resulted in the loss of two of my family members.

I was kind of forced to surrender. And I think that it's a really hard line because you, you can't do nothing, because you feel like, you know, you have to. You summon, you love a suffering, you have to do everything you can to help alleviate the suffering. So I wouldn't necessarily like take back all of the effort that I put in. But it's just just a weird lesson in, like, I don't know, I don't know what, I actually don't know.

“I think it's a good answer though, because I feel like, I feel like there's so many people that go through it.”

And you feel like you're kind of like going in circles at some point. It's like the same thing with, it's, it's a way more extreme version of when someone doesn't want to go to therapy and you're trying to get them to go to therapy. It's like, you can't make the person go to therapy with addiction. It's like, this person you can try to help. But at some point, you also, in a weird way, have to like give yourself some grace that like,

Yeah, something my mom always would say is she'd say tough love doesn't work.

And that was, I didn't give tough love. That was that's not part of who I am, but to other people around her who would try and like force in force things. Yeah. And I really agree with that. Like, I don't think that personally, like, unless the, unless the person is really causing harm or is a threat to you and your safety or, you know, that that is very different in addiction, but I never withdrew love in moments of, you know,

“difficulty in third addiction. And I, I really believe that, you know, I think there's a lot of like when you watch those TV shows that are like about,”

you know, whatever addicts and stuff and are dragging them out of, you know, these are human beings that are in pain.

Yeah. So I think that always operating from a place of empathy to me was always felt right.

I, one of the things that you wrote in your book that I felt like was so sad for you, because it goes back to that like isolating feeling was when you kind of talked about being seen as a knock by your family. You're like, I was my brother is telling me to leave the club, but I didn't know why. And I was like, oh, he's sending me home. So he can start doing drugs and a club and he didn't want you around. Like, how do you think that affected the way you acted around your family?

Because I think the people that aren't doing the drugs like I've had a situation like this were like, someone trying to hide it from you. And then you also just kind of feeling like not wanted. And as much as you don't want to be a part of the drugs, you also feel like you're being alienated because you're the only quote unquote sober one. Yeah, it was a really strange experience because I never was, we were never having the same experience. Like, in my experience, I was always being very, I was being firm, but I was always very gentle.

And to them, it was like, you're making me feel so bad. Like, they took it, everything was really a, was received. Yeah, really intensely. And it wasn't my experience. So I think there's so much like shame around addiction that, um, that's really hard to like have, you know, honest conversations.

Yeah. When you went through this like, two year span of grief, essentially, or like the beginning of, who did you lean on? Like, who do you go to? And you need someone to support you. So I really leaned on people who had had similar experiences because it felt so isolating. I had friends who had lost loved ones in various ways. And I found that to be the most comforting because I just wanted them to tell me that I was going to be okay, you know, from someone who'd experienced it and say, like, you're gonna survive this.

And because in the moments, in the moment itself, particularly losing my brother, I didn't see a way that I could. So I wanted to just talk to people who had lost a sibling, had lost someone, you know, sort of more shocking sort of way, like the way I lost my brother, people who had experienced suicide.

I just wanted to hear just from them. But then I had amazing, an amazing group of friends around me and husband. But it's a really isolating experience.

“It is, I appreciate you talking about it. And I think that's what was wonderful about you writing about your experience in the book.”

It's like, like, you sang, you wanted to go to certain people that had experienced it because you, as much as you love certain friends, it's like, if they don't, if they've never gone through it, you're kind of like, I don't need you to like hold my hand right now. I literally need, like, answers. Yeah. I would go on, I would go on, like, read it. I would literally go on forums and go, like, and just because it was, I was such an isolating experience. Right. And, and, like, read people's experiences and, like, blogs and, like, I talked DM to people on Instagram who DM to me, who had also lost their siblings.

Like, I would just and talk to them and be like, did you feel this way, did you feel this way? Because it was so lonely. Right. So I, anyone who had experienced it, I would literally talk to you. Talk to you. Talk to you. Oh, man. You want to read it. I know that. I love to have for you. Are you also a reddit sleuth though? No, no, no. I'm not like, I'm not like, I'm not, I don't, I just do a Google. I'm not like, deep. I don't have an account. Like, you're, like, X, X, X or F, M, and QQ, Nark 25.

I'm actually like the biggest reddit sleuth in this all cause out there. We find your account. No. Okay. I read that you're a certified death dula.

“Yeah. Can you talk to me about what that entails and how you get into that?”

Uh, yeah. I got into it because a friend of mine was a death dula and, um, because of what I was just saying. I felt like when my brother died, there were no resources and I was literally going on reddit. Yeah. I found a community of people who worked in like the death world. Oh. And I didn't know that that existed and um, she was a death dula and I just thought if I could make myself of use at all. Two people who were experiencing anything like this, I would. So I, yeah, I did my death dula training and got certified.

It's basically, it's essentially like what a birth dula is. Okay.

So I have a birth dying and your, um, taught how to be with the dying. Well, person, do you find like that? Kind of also continues to heal you while you work with other people or is it at all triggering if something is similar that they're going through that you've been through. Um, it's, I wouldn't say triggering. I would say you're very empathetic. You know, um, it's hard to, you're, because you've experienced something you, you're very much with them emotionally because it's, it's a shared.

“Lot like a experience of grief. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I think it's just, it's not that I'm triggered and thinking of my own.”

That's the situation, but I'm very much emotionally with the person. Yeah. When you were in the press with like all of that shit about the estate and everything and legal and all of this, like,

How does it feel when your family is so publicly like in the news? Like that? And that I feel was the first time you were at the forefront.

So that's, that's actually true. Like my family's been, since I, my first memories is my family's in the news 24/7. Like growing up every, where I would go, my family around the front of every magazine, like, as a child, like that was very normal. Yeah. But my mom received all of it. You know, um, when my mom died, that was the first time I received all that energy, which was very intense. And I made me really empathize with her. You know, it's funny when I, I've been doing press for years, like I've been acting for a long time.

When I went out to do press for this book, um, I really like, like, the, the vibe I got from certain interviewers was aggressive.

“Like, tell me this thing. Tell me the answer to this. Why did this happen? Like, a more like, like putting me on, like in the hot seat kind of if experience, which I've never, like, as an actor.”

I'm just having a nice time doing press, you know? And I was like, wow. Because it's like related to my mom. I'm getting the energy my mom would get, you know. And it's so interesting. And maybe it's because of the name and how media was different back in the day. And then we're just like, the core tenants of who was famous or that many famous people. Yeah. It almost is like, they're carrying on that sense of entitlement in media of like, we deserve to know this.

And we will go to the end of the earth to get the picture and the shot and the information and you're really like,

I'm like, wait, this does not happen anymore. You're like, no, no, you're like next question. Like, wait, you can't say that. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, but then I realized like, what she would have been dealing with. Yeah, it's so interesting. Like your every generation. It changes and it gets different. Like in the way that you probably feel about your grandfather.

So different than the way that your mother felt about her father and how your daughter will feel about her grandfather. Like, this empire that he was.

“Yeah. That's what's so interesting is reading this book and hearing you talk about it for most of us.”

Like, this has been a very long time since Elvis was at the center of the conversation. It's really wild. Like, I don't quite understand either. It's like, there's still movies all the time. Like, and I'm like, this is, you know, it's, it's amazing that somebody could, you know, impact people so much. Yeah, it's, it's really unique. You know, and I, you know, I really appreciate it because, of course, we love our family and, you know, one other people too as well.

But I do, I do often go like what there's always like in my inbox like this movie and that movie and Elvis is and I'm like, wow, it's really still pop still pop.

You're like, oh, great. Yeah. Okay, in a way with this book now, finally being out, do you feel a sense of relief? Like, not that it's being put to bed, but you got to tell this story and now it's like the next chapter of your life is beginning. I, I do feel relief because it felt like this thing that I knew was coming that was going to be this big thing and I did sort of want to be over.

“Yeah, you know, um, I think this is like my last podcast, by the way.”

You're like, oh, don't go without the bang. I love it. I love it. Um, and I, yeah, I don't want to think about my trauma all day every day, you know? I feel like I didn't, we didn't get too crazy right now. You wanted to laugh more. No, I didn't want to, I don't, I had no expectations. Did your friends think you were coming in to talk about sex?

I literally, we can. I mean, I, I'm an open book. Maybe you're going to have to come back on a moment. Like a different colored adi episode. Great.

Where we get into a tea, we'll do a tea episode. I'm very, very appreciative. Thank you so much for taking the time. I know this is like a lot, so thank you. No, I appreciate it.

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