Candace x Hunter Biden: The Interview

>> It's wonderful to be here.

“>> People are just going to be like, how on earth did this happen?”

>> Right now. >> I got to give them a bit of a backstory. So I went to dinner with the fellow podcaster and we were just talking about interviews.

We don't do too many interviews on the show and he first asked me what was the best of you I ever did.

And I said without question, the USS Liberty of Survivor Filternie. And then he said, what would be your top interview that you'd want to do? And I said, oh gosh, we're in such a different time now, like I'm just not interested in politics. Like it would have to be something so different. And then I said, actually, Hunter Biden, I watched your sit down with Andrew Callahan.

>> Yeah. >> And it was kind of the most refreshing interview that I had seen in politics in a very long time because we're so used to being gas lit about various things happening, everyone's trying to hide stuff. And we read a lot about you, I guess we didn't really hear anything from you. So this was kind of the first time that I heard you in your own words, just totally owning your addiction issues.

Also going after Jake Tapper and George Clooney.

And when we were kind of expecting the typical Democrat, like these are great guys, these guys were amazing.

Jake Tapper should win a Pulitzer, I don't know. And I would just, it wasn't what I was expecting, is what I would say. So, and then that person just sort of made this happen. Yeah. >> So, I want to just sort of get into the Hunter Biden story.

I will say to the audience right now, I have already made the pledge right when I got in the phone with you that like obviously I'm not going to make you say anything bad about your father because that would just be completely demonic to be like say something terrible about your father. Everyone knows my opinions, my political perspectives, they're already out there, he's your dad. So that is separate from my two points. >> Because there's no way I possibly could. >> Yeah, of course, I totally get that.

But there's a lot to be said about you and a lot that I guess hasn't been said about your journey. And I guess I want to start with just one question for the culture.

“The cocaine that was found at the White House, was it yours?”

>> No, not only was it not mine, number one is thank you for having me here. And one of the reasons is to be able to answer these questions, you know, the one thing I am after six years of this. I've been sober since June 1st of 2019, cleaning sober, the verifiably so by the way. And verifiably so by the bureau of probation in which drug tested randomly for over the course of two years while I went through my trials and things like that. But beyond that is that directly to your question, I wasn't even there.

Not only there, but people have to understand, is where that cocaine was found? Was, you know, the visitor's entrance underneath the, the, that is where visitors come in and, and they come over from the old executive office building staff to go to the go to the, go to the oval or go to the cheapest staff's office or to the offices in the West Wing. And it was found in a cubby in right outside of the situation room. And it's like no possibility, not even remotely, beyond the fact that I wasn't even there.

I mean, I spent probably, you know, over the course of four years, maybe I'm 25 days at the White House like 25 nights, 30 if I, you know, being fair. And so it's just, you know, it was an easy, easy, you know, I mean, I'm an easy target and understandably so, right.

“I mean, I've been, I think, probably the most famous addict and famous person,”

um, is very Chicago in recovery for seven years, but we're close to seven years, even first.

Yeah, I definitely thought you were on drugs while your father was in the White House, I don't know. But I think it might have just also been the timing of the laptop coming out. And then people just assuming that you were still on drugs. I don't know, that might have been why in our house, we thought that. I think that it was, that they purposely conflated, you know, my, I wrote a book which came out in April of 2021.

It was I did something that very few people, I think, ever in that are kind of like similarly situated to make do. In which I was 100% frank about the fact that not only was an addict, not only was I alcohol, I didn't really see the distinction between the two, one, the both drugs. But I was a crack addict, like I was a degenerate crack addict. I mean, I've heard you call me a crack addict many times in the truth of the matter.

I was a crack addict and, and, and, and, and, and I say that not to shock people because it's really shocking, a crack cocaine carries such a stigma to it, begin with.

There are so many people, I think that there's, you know, at any given time, 30 million Americans

that are either in active addiction or in recovery. There's not a single person that I know that hasn't been impacted by addiction at some level in some form, personally, or was someone that is one degree of separation from that they love, no one that I know. At least of all me.

Yeah, and, and, and, and, and part of that, one of the reasons I'm here, you, the, the stories that you tell about that in terms of, um, you know, you're family and, uh, and, and there is where

the common ground is, for me, I'm, I can 100% say this, is that I, a friend of mine, uh, said,

gave me this quote, um, about two years ago, and it's become my mantra, is it, it's Mother Trisa.

“It was a, a tribute to Mother Trisa, is if you want to change the world, go home and love your family.”

That's, that's, that's, that's my everything, uh, now. And, um, in part of that is not just the family that you have, um, by Blood and Burst, but also the community that, uh, that you're inextricably, uh, tied to, and that community for me is the recovery community, and there's people that are still sick and suffering from addiction. And so the biggest reason that I wanted to come talk to you beyond the fact, and this is not

able to smoke. I think that regardless of whether I agree with you, you're probably the most effective communicator, um, uh, I've ever heard, I mean, behind a microphone, and it's really drowns me crazy. I've really, really, really, really made it. Yeah. Um, um, but is, is it, is it? I wanted to talk to you about those things and anything else you want to talk about? Yeah. I was, I was, I'm most interested in the addiction story, and, and I was saying to you

before we got, uh, for sort of rolling that this was sort of something that I noticed when I would cover various topics, whether it was pornography, drugs on my show, uh, drinking, how many men would write and say they were suffering with various things, and yet they don't often speak about, um, like how they're quietly suffering, with whether it's with addiction to pornography, addiction to drugs, and I don't think there are enough conversations about it. And so when I watch

that interview, if you just, just laying it out there, something that most people try to hide, or they're shameful about it. I was like, they're actually just needs to be more dialogue about it. I grew up with tons of addicts in my family. I have people in my family who are still addicted,

“um, and there is, I think, there is a natural anger that people have when they,”

for some reason, believe, and I think this was part of the anger that, even some, that I had it toward you before I heard you speak about your addiction, is that you sort of think when somebody has money and political connections, that that's somehow removes them, um, from going through these sorts of barriers in life. So when I grew up, it's like, okay, like you have uncles, whatever, at our addicted to crack, you have cousins that are doing crack, whatever it is, or experimenting

with math and drugs and those things. And then you see someone that has a life of privilege and for some reason in your mind, you wrongly go, okay, that can't happen. And it did happen. And I actually, I'd like to hear, like, how you got addicted, like, what was actually the, the story, your path toward addiction? Yeah. So, thank you. Or, uh, let me talk about that. Or, as can be about it. And it really mean it. It's, um, one of the things that traps people, I can only speak about myself.

“But I think that, uh, people that are in, uh, that are addicts or that are in recovery,”

also you find out really fast, is that you're not as terminally unique as you think you are, is that, um, and one of the things that, uh, uh, that is really important about addicts talking to each other and talking about it is that realization. Because one of the things that traps you in your addiction is shame. And, you know, you, like me, are, um, um, our cat, like, and we have learned that guilt is an appropriate emotion. A guilt is, as an appropriate response to

something when you've done something wrong. And you're supposed to atone for it. And you're supposed to seek forgiveness, whether it, the forgiveness comes from an individual or not. Your, that, that is the, um, that's the lesson is that it is in, uh, only, uh, for seeking that forgiveness, can you release yourself from that guilt? That's appropriate. Shame is not. Shame is just absolutely

corrosive. Shame is you telling yourself that you're not worthy, that you're never going to be worthy,

horrible things in my addiction in terms of what I did in terms of my relationships and

“and decisions that I made and more than anything is just removing myself from, uh, being present”

for the people that love me. Um, and, um, and what happened to me, um, and I really mean this is that the exposure, not peace meal, but the total exposure, my entire digital footprint stolen from me, the 20-year digital footprint, every text message, every picture, every, all of the things that, uh, that you would be ashamed of, became, uh, front page news for, for four years, five years, um, beginning in 2019. And, uh, and it forced me into a choice. And the choice was,

do I get out of bed and live or do I die? And it became that much of a economy. And I, uh, and I chose to live. It wasn't easy. And, um, and maintaining sobriety and, and that kind of like a pressure cooker, um, is often the thing that triggers you, but something broke me in a good way, which was that I no longer have any fear. I, I, like, you know, sitting down with you is to me and all an opportunity for you to see me as a human being and not, um, you know, hunter-biden

laptop. Yeah. And the pictures that, you know, uh, Congressman Green, uh, like, put up in Congress,

“or the, or the New York Post, you know, I think I was on the cover of the New York Post one year,”

more than any, uh, anybody in the history of the paper. And none of it was good. None of it was good. And, um, but what it's given me is the opportunity to own it all, is to own, uh, all of my story without shame or fear, um, uh, realizing that I, um, I have a community of people out there that I want to, uh, I want to be of service to. That really mean that. And, um, and so, and part of it is, by maybe it'll be honest about it,

maybe we're just talking before we started this, is the hardest thing for any addict to do is, is not only get honest with the people that they love, but to get honest with themselves. Mm-hmm. And until they can, until they can really see themselves for who they are, all of it. And, and decide to love themselves, then, you know, uh, uh, the, uh, yeah, the cycle is just going to continue. It's just, at least in my experience. That's the truth.

I think one of the things, I said, I even answer your question.

Yeah, I want to talk about the first time that you got introduced to it, because that's interesting.

Oh, I know. I went into all the discussion. Yeah, actually do start with that. Like, how did you actually get introduced? First up, describe for people who don't know, uh, the difference between cocaine and crack. This crack is, yeah, a lot more addictive. Yeah. And so just what is the difference? I know I got a lot of heat for, no, it was fantastic. Yeah. It was fantastic. I was like, we actually very educated on this. And well, it was important to me to make the distinction that,

that there's this idea that, um, that there's this kind of a secret kind of special enhancement

“to, uh, to powder cocaine that makes it into crack. And, you know, you have to have, you know,”

uh, some technical degree in order to be able to, to, to do that. And let's start all the way to beginning. I think that I'm genetically predisposed to be an alcoholic. I do believe that there is a genetic piece of it. I do believe that my brain works differently as an addict in terms of the way in which my synapses, um, uh, fire once they're introduced to the dopamine hit in the serotonin, um, increased that occurs because of an introduction of a substance. I believe that, uh,

that that I became, um, acclimated and, um, physiologically depended upon that when I, um, I started to drink an artist, um, when I was in college, in which you can control and, you know, I made it through Gorshoun and, uh, I went to Jesuit Volunteer Corps for a year. I've been in, uh, and it was kind of like domestic peaceway, you know, the JBC, I was JBC for the year after after college. And, um, and then I went to Yale Law School, you know, was married,

had, um, um, um, my, my oldest daughter when I was a, um, first year law student and made it through

all of that and made it through my, um, first year's employment, drinking probably more than

33 years old to my brother calling me and say, this has got to stop, but he got to stop. And,

“and, and what he meant was, is that, you know, like, a whole weekend was missing, kind of, and,”

um, and I, and I, and I said, okay, and he drove me to the airport and, uh, he put me on a plane in New York and I flew to a place that started by Eric Clapton called, uh, uh, acrossroads in, in Tequila and I went to rehab and I came out and I, and I, what, when the, the directly when I came out, I brought the pick me up from the airport, drove me to an AA meeting, walked in with me, two-pond circle, and, and, uh, DC, I met my sponsor, that first meeting that I ever went to,

and, and I stayed clean and sober for, um, um, for about seven years and, uh, and then I relaxed, and, uh, and it was just such a mundane, stupid story. I was on a plane by myself.

“Everything was okay. Things were looking up. It was, you know, uh, uh, you know, normal life”

pressures, but it was all good, and that's the, um, that's the real, it's city is thing about

addiction and alcoholism. It, it never goes away, necessarily. There's always the answer

that is being presented to you by the thing that you trust the most, which is your brain, then what it says is, if you don't want to feel this way, whatever the way is, or if you want to feel this way even more, I have the answer for you, and I was on a plane by myself, and I had a drink, and that drink in the 2010, seven years, almost of sobriety, started a cycle of, uh, relapse and recovery and relapse and recovery, in which it was really

“hard for me to be honest with the people that love me, because I just wanted to hide it. I just”

wanted it to go away, and I thought, okay, I'll get through this cycle, and, you know, I'll sleep it off, uh, we can, and that's it. I'm done. And that would last a week, and then it would last three months, and then I went back to rehab, and then it became kind of, and then I came back, and I started, I mean, talk about, you talk about this all the time, which I love that you do. It was a big form of, you know what I mean? I had shingles, and so somebody prescribed me, like 52, obviously,

you'd coat, like, I mean, ridiculous, and I started that, and then I started drinking again, and the description ran out, and then the cycle just started to happen. And, um, but when my brother died, uh, it all fell apart. Bo and I, uh, were, uh, and like, I don't report that our relationship was unique, or that his loss was greater than, my, my loss of him was greater than anybody else's loss of their brother or someone that they deeply, deeply loved. But when my mom and sister and

my bone, I were in that car accident in 1972, um, and we survived, it was the two of us every day. For a year and a day apart, we talked every day. I mean, except when he was in Iraq, I literally probably talked to my brother every day. And, um, and, uh, and when I, when Bo died, my marriage fell apart, uh, after 20 years, 20, two years, um, by the way, for reasons that marriage is fall apart, you know, and I, but I take a lot of responsibility for him. And, uh, and it just started

to really, really dark circle, the cycle. In the past, when I, uh, when I had to have these relapses,

there's, there's, there's always someone in such proximity to me that they would, like, you know,

that couldn't escape, I couldn't escape. And this is, it's Bo was gone. I, uh, right after Bo, uh, died, um, I, um, ended up, uh, um, separated from my wife, like, within the month. And my dad, for the first time in my life, who was my rock, uh, was stuck in his own brief, like deep deep grief. And, and I just went down and, uh, whole. And, I, took myself in to rehab that year and came out and stayed sober for a while and then relapsed.

And then went into a, um, an outpatient program in DC where I went, like, you know, four hours every day for, you know, from eight to two or six hours, every day, um, stay sober and then I relapsed.

in this instance, I also used cocaine and they said, well, you have to take a, a, um, a drug test.

And I said, I'm not going to take a drug test. I'm not going to put something on, you know,

“it's because it's, it's not protected by HIPAA in a rehab, uh, uh, uh, scenario, which is crazy, right?”

Yeah. Anyway, long story short, they said, you can't come back in unless you take the drug test. And I said, I'm not taking the drug test. I'm going through a divorce. I'm just not protected by HIPAA. It will become public. I don't want to do this to my family. I, like, I'm telling you, I use cocaine and I drink. Is that not good enough? I'm back. And they said enough. For whatever reason, I'm not blaming them. This is not their fault. I walked out and I knew Lincoln Park was a kind of open-air

drug market. I saw a woman that was, it kind of famous in the area since I had been in college literally for 20 years. So I would see in the streets around, you know, BC in that area where I worked for a long time. And I said, I went up to her and I said, I'm going to get some crack.

Wow. And I think it was basically, I said, can you help me commit suicide? I mean, I don't think

I know that that now and in looking back, it was the cowards way. And I really mean that. I was coward. I didn't go and just do it. I said, let me do it this way. Really, really, really drag everybody down with me along the way. I, let me figure out the way, not only to kill myself, but to maybe kill my dad, you know, really hurt my family, particularly my three daughters who like adore me and I adore, like just the fact. And I smoke cracked. And the difference between

crack cocaine and powder cocaine is this. And I really truly do not want to give a road map

for people to be able to do this because I swear to God, it'll kill you. But it's

sodium my carbonate, which is picking soda, water, eat. That's it. That's all. That is the tire difference of it, which allows it to be ingested through a smoking. And the combination of those things makes it so that it affects your physiology much faster than it would be if you just use powder cocaine through your nose or in any other form other than inner being asleep. And it also allows you to ingest more faster than you could possibly ever ingest by sniffing

cocaine up your nose. The combination of that, the combination of combustion, ritual,

“and the ritual meaning the way in which you have to, you know, I mean, I can, you'll find my hands”

doing it, is, you know, becomes this ritualistic thing with the combination of combustion, which is, and you learn, I mean, if you really study things about addiction, these kind of key components of oral fixation and things like that, it just becomes the most ungodly addiction that you can possibly imagine. To the point where I was smoking crack, you know, I mean, literally, you know, I was either looking for or smoking or recovering and not even recovering. You don't recover.

You just go find more for close to a two-year period of time. Wow. And it took me to places, you know, I wrote all about it. And I got made fun of about it. And, you know, people think that, you know, when I wrote my book, like, you know, calling through the carpet, to find crack cocaine and, you know, remission on cheese and, you know, and I know it's a real offline, but anybody that's ever been an addict like that, they don't laugh about it.

It's devastating. I think that you were that person. You can see yourself doing it. Just devastating. And so what happens in addiction so often is this, is people not only they can't admit that, they can't even admit it to themselves. Just block it out. They go, they get 30 days clean. They come out, they go back into the same exact situation that they were in before. And they think, I'm just not going to do it again. I'm just going to stay, you know,

I, I, I'm going to make it. I'm going to make it. And what will come up is that that wake up in the

“morning and they'll remember that time in the motel with the, you know, the person, the prostitute,”

the barges, the drugs and that stole, just stole your wallet and, and every, and all your drugs and everything and you had to, you were, you were gone through carpet to see if there was anything

thinking of yourself like that. Regardless of who you are, regardless of where you came from, where you dad's the president of the United States, or it doesn't matter. And they don't admit that to themselves. They don't admit it to anyone around them. Don't ever say it. And you know what happens?

They never lose it. And it sits like right here, like in the back of your head, and it hops

up. And you just feel so disgusted with yourself that your brain immediately tells you, regardless of how far away for you are from a drink or drug. Like, I know the way not to feel this way. I know exactly

“how to feel this way. You're going to die if you keep feeling this way. You need, you need to take”

a drink. And that's always how it starts. I mean, alcohol is the most dangerous drug in the world. It's by virtue of the amount of destruction and devastation that is that comes personally into the people around people that are alcoholics. And I don't find any difference between being an addict in an alcoholic. And that's where it starts. And that's where it started for me. That was my story. Until I met Melissa and backly and sober and had been so almost seven years now.

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and you don't get to decide what your father does for a living. And I think that's probably why people separated as well too because like I said, there's this idea of what a politician's family is supposed to be. And you obviously are because I genuinely understand what those sorts of addictions do. I don't think people realize you're not even yourself. It's like a demon

“the best way to say it. And maybe I'm taking a Catholic take on this, but it's like a full demonic”

possession when you're in the throes of these drugs. And I mean, this was actually a great benefit of any doing intervention because people could really see these moments where people will choose the drug over their family, they will choose the drug over their kids, they'll choose the drug over literally anything. And for people who, and I would, I actually tend to agree with you that I've wondered myself if there's something genetic because I'm not wired that way. Or maybe I just

haven't found the drug that would do that to me, but like I would say that like I've just never been

never had something in. And I was like, I just need to have that again or wanted again. And I've seen friends that they have something once. And they're like, want to do this every second. And I go, that's very interesting. Like it's almost like your, your, I told me to have something different. I'm certain of that. And in the science is certain of that. And anyways,

“when we all can, I think that we all can associate with understand addiction at more or less”

devastating levels. So for instance, what is your phone? I mean, you have a, you basically have a packet of heroin. Right. We all do, you know, pockets. Yeah. Honestly giving us that dopamine,

nearly as divided as of people as we think that we are, I think that that bag of heroin and

everybody's pocket is feeding them a lot of that division. But it's, so we can all kind of understand the compulsion to do things that aren't that clearly aren't benefiting us, like staying up until three o'clock in the morning and going through your, for you page on TikTok every mother, father, or it can watch their teenager do that and go, got this is awful. And I'm going to take his phone away and then they turn back to their phone and they start going through their phone.

Like, and I'm, you know, I'm not any better. So we cannot kind of all is understand that compulsion.

It's when the compulsion becomes just so the, the, the blast radius continues to grow.

The difference between being a, you know, addicted to your phone and being addicted to crack cocaine, I'm not saying or the same, but at least we can kind of get a little bit of an understanding of the physiology of that, of the way in which the brain actually works. But it's like the micro versus the macro. Yeah. And everybody has the micro.

“So you, you can see the, the, the, the micro impact of it. And, but I think one of the reasons”

it, why people are, um, so like shocked by my story. And by the way, we're able to conflate. So

if the New York Post every day for six years runs a picture. On, you know, online, I mean,

I think they literally at one point did like a 1.5 stories of me a day for an entire 18th month period. Okay. And in each, it didn't matter what the subject was. It was the picture of me naked with the prostitute with whatever and with the, with the crack, with the crack pipe in my lips. No, what, like I, so I don't get mad at people when they go, like, was that your cocaine? Like, well, number one, you know the White House. It's like, it's just just making a sense. I had 7 secret

trips and agents with me at any given time everywhere I went. The idea that I was in the situation room and would decide to drop off. I mean, that, but beyond beyond that silliness is the, um, I don't blame people. We're not realizing that I have worked my epinous off. I mean, in this environment, the proudest thing that I've ever done is stay clean sober through all of that. Every piece of it, right, both the trials, through the accusations, through the, you know, Alexander's mirror,

I'm saying, gallops and, and, you know, constant teen, coolics and, in lead harnesses and broodies and steep bannets and, uh, all of that is that purely because of the love of the people around me and my willingness to own it all. I'm, I'm sitting in front of you and, and you're not taking that away from me. Right. No, and by the way, that's a beauty of it. Yeah. The realization at one point is that

“you can try. I have no fear, no fear. And, um, and that doesn't, and that's why I'm here.”

More than anything is because, uh, I, like, I don't, I, I, I probably, you know, I'm certain that we disagree on a lot of stuff, but there used to be a time can this where you and I could sit down together in disagree about tax policy and disagree about, um, you know, the, the Catholic Church's view on abortion or disagree with, I mean, whatever the subject may be and still be able to go have a meal together. Right. I talk about that often on my show. Like, I, I, back when I was

left leaning in college, my best friend was a Republican conservative. Like, it, it wasn't so I each other's throat and hating each other and wanting to destroy one another and, you know, you kind of see the good and the bad and go, well, um, you know, this is why I have this perspective

“and perspectives could change and that was a lot too. You know, I, I think about what it was that”

just revisiting what made a lot of people including myself so angry about you, um, or I guess it wasn't really about you. It was the gas lighting. It was the letter that came from people saying it was Russian propaganda. That is what is driving us crazy about the Epstein files right now.

to be gas lit. And to be fair, it wasn't you that that's why it was so refreshing when you were like,

“yes, I had a crack edition. This is me. I did this. I was with hookers, but you weren't speaking”

for you. And they were, they were literally a bunch of people that were coming out and saying, this is not real. And that is the most infuriating thing for, because everyone's average, everyone can connect with addiction. Everyone can have this conversation. Actually, if you would come out and, and I probably, in that environment, obviously, it may be that would, there would have been different results because we had each other's roads. No, exactly. But that is what made people so

angry. Yeah. It was like no, he never smoked crack. It wasn't real, a laptop is Russian propaganda.

Well, guys, what is this? Yeah. By the way, is it, is it, is it, is it, Steve Bannon saved in originally on a saved the quote unquote laptop? Which, by the way, is bullshit. If we can agree on that gaslighting, I will agree on the gaslighting of this, is that it was never a quote unquote laptop. There was a hard drive of stolen and a hack material, where ever came from, whether it came from a teller or repair shop, or whether it came like Leipornas says from

Demetri Furtash was trying to sell a hard drive underbidens in Ukraine. You know, that they were looking for the laptop repair shop guy was ever the twinkle in the eye. Just go back and look at

“the record. Okay. So here's the thing, is you're absolutely right. And this is like the freedom of”

being able to say this. It's like, yeah, they should let me go out and talk. Yeah. But it was two weeks

before the campaign. And then the, the election was over. Steve Bannon, it goes on and with his buddy gal, you know, the Chinese billionaire that's now in prison and, you know, that is like a Chinese fire, whatever, you know, where he got arrested on his boat and all that crap is it? I mean, there is a go listen to it. Go listen to the recorded conversation in which they say like the laptop, like we got them. We, like, you know, so we put all, we collected all the salacious pictures

and we put them out there and then Rudy went out and stood on the steps of the Newcastle County courthouse with Bernie Carrick and said, this contains child exploitation. Like pure, you know, I mean, pure bullshit, just bullshit. So on both sides, you have this reaction, you know, which I don't think was necessarily a coordinated reaction in the sense that what do you do in two weeks? And so they come up with this and they say, and I don't get to go out and say, you know,

no, I was, but you know what I did? Is it coming, bro? I read a book and I tell everybody,

I was addicted to crack. And here's my story. And here's what happened. And here is the

all of the rooms that no one would ever want to admit to being in that I was in. And, and, and it was like a clip on the radar because everybody was now fighting about whether there was kind of a suppressed story on Twitter, whether there was a, this gaslighting from, you know, and by the way, I am not here to defend any of the people. But then it's part of like the political machine, whether like we have two weeks go to the election, we're going to do this denial, you know,

because we can't afford this right now, essentially. And so, and then we're going to table this,

“make it past these two weeks. And then by that time, first and foremost, your father won, right?”

So, you know, and so people are angry. They feel like the elections have been stolen and that there was this entire collusion to cover a laptop, which if it was on the other side, they may have done too. This is what DC is. It's politics. But that, that is where they think the anger came from. And it was just like, how dare you gaslit us? And then people then start making you this focal point of. It's not about anything to do with me. Right. It was kind of bigger than you. You know,

you know what the laptop proved? That you were cracking. There you go. Thank you. By the way, keeping the brothers open. All the other bullshit, you know, bribery, and all the other things that they investigated up and down, during the Trump administration, with a Trump appointed U.S. attorney, with the Trump appointed U.S. attorney, it's the only U.S. attorney in the, in the country to stay on and continue to prosecute me.

Who then became special counsel after I got a plea deal, because I paid my taxes late, and I paid them with penalties and interest, and I owned a gun for 11 days. While they say, I was addicted and check that box. That's it. Everybody has all the information. It's not like the Department of Justice has my digital footprint, and every tax message, every email. There's not a single one in which you find that would

in any way supports the really serious accusations of, and reaching my father and reaching

I own the laptop. Come, you know what, we can go through it together. If you're willing to like

“a vergarized to the tragedy of addiction, I mean, just the absolute tragedy of it. Yeah.”

But man, man, we have not, there is no space for that in discourse anymore. There's no space for the nuance of, you know, well, that was addiction. That wasn't corruption. You know, did not do any business through entire four years. I became a painter. You know, why I became a painter? Because it literally saved my life. I painted my whole life. And Melissa instinctively knew that I literally needed to like occupy my hands in early recovery, like 12 hours

a day, like just, you know, like to be able to focus on the, not the crushing weight of the consequences of years of addiction. And so I just sat and I painted and I painted and I painted. And I decided to have a show in the gallery. And, you know, and offer my paintings for sale. And your post

comes out and says, "Honey Biden's selling his paintings for half a million dollars." I had never

sold a painting or offered a painting for a half a million dollars in my freaking life. And by the way, everybody knows this, because every painting that I sold, everybody thought about a painting, had to pay about a quarter million dollars to defend themselves before an impeachment hearing. Go read the transcripts of people under oath. What regardless is this, is the laptop absolutely proved nothing, but it became this, this cultural touchstone. It was like, it embodied

the Biden crime family. And if you wanted to be able to believe that, not wanted to be able to believe that. If you believe that, because you're being told that by people that you trusted, told you that your election was stolen, your democracy was started, that the process was unfair, is that all you had to do, and I get this, is look at the pictures. I just look like a good guy to me. Right. Because you weren't a good guy in the pictures. No,

yeah, it's not. It's not correct. It won't tell you with the process. Right. Like, you know what I mean? Like they come out and like to say, no, like this, like, I admit it all, not only admit it all. I own it all. I will own everything, the worst of it, all of it. And then being, like, I mean, now in retrospect, and things have changed. I mean, times have changed. Like I said, I was one of the chief people that was really angry about it. And it did feel that was the exact reason why I read examinate

was the gaslighting. It's the same reason why I'm angry with Trump over the Epstein thing. It's like, I can't come back from media gaslighting. The Trump thing is worse because it came from his own mouth. But the gaslighting, so it wasn't like people trying to cover it up. It was like Trump being like, what, Epstein files? Are we still talking about the Epstein files? And so, but then things kind of

“change, I think, with time also because I was very, definitely, so I was close with Don Jr.”

Traveler a lot with him through the Hunter Biden laptops scandal. We talked about it. This corruption did it all. It can't be, they denied it. All these photos coming out. And then we get whatever this Trump family is now. And it's like, man, I think it was a story in that row on X, exactly how I feel, which is, I wish I could go back to the days where I thought like Hunter Biden's art was the most corrupt deal that was done in politics. And now we're going, okay, you know, we

stood behind Trump, we shared the photos of Hunter Biden to the extent that we could. And now we have their family engaged in so many corrupt deals, the meme coins, the taking advantage of people. And you go, okay, well, what we actually have is DC is corrupt. Politics is corrupt. And I think it is kind of a unifying point, not to excuse, you know, the gaslighting for people for two weeks, which make people super angry. But I do think it's just a different time where people kind of

going back and examining, and I feel actually terrible, realizing that you were finally clean.

And then it's just this humiliation ritual over and over and over again of people putting everything out there and not realizing also your kids are facing this consequence as well, which people do not think about a lot of times when they published stories. Like, I even was reticent and didn't cover the Chrissy Nom thing because the first thing that came to my mind, um, they are kids. Those are kids. Like, I'm like, these are kids that are about to go to college. Like, and so

and why are they doing this because she's in politics, right? And so this becomes, they don't think

“about the children. And yeah, I mean, I think I now, now that I have kids too, I think there's”

just like, wow, they don't sign up for what I do for podcasting, kids don't sign up for that kind of stuff. Yeah, I think, you know, number one, the kids are way more resilient than you think to so much tougher. And, uh, and I know, um, the, uh, my girls, I haven't, like, got it. And I,

that I have to offer. But you're, you know, part of what you're, it's describing is politics, immemorial, you know, part of it, but something's changed in this. There is a meanness, um, the willingness to adopt, uh, very, very un-American, uh, tactics, um, uh, against our opponents

“because it become a zero-sum game. It's not just that I disagree with you. It's, you need to be punished.”

You need to be punished for what you believe. You know, there's this incredible show. I really

want to meet them one day. You probably, I don't know if you listen it to it's, uh, all the necessary conversation. Have you listened to that? Incredible. It's a rather insister who are progressives. One lives in LA and like one lives in Austin. Like that. And she runs up. bakery. This is sister. In a mom and dad. And they are ultra maga. And I think they're like in, you know, you know, Missouri somewhere. And I mean, like, don't take their caps off. Jump literally,

do no wrong. He's playing 40 chats on the Epstein thing. The, you know, uh, I know he said,

no war in the land. But, you know, uh, he must have a reason for it. And you can't convince. Like

“literally, but they have this conversation. And they have real issues with each other. Like the”

daughter gets really mad at that. Like that. You were, it jerked to us when we were kids. You made me. But then she has this conversation with her mom who loves animals and like daughter about empathy. And they would adopt, you know, these animals. And they would, uh, and you find out like her dad taught, you know, or coached all of their little league games. And she was a softball player. And if a kid couldn't, like, afford the uniform, but dad would quietly go out and buy the

info. And he's awful on this thing by the way. She's like, he's in terms of the way that he speaks and his speaks to them. And he's like tough. And I don't get, I don't give a shit, you know, drop a bomb on him kind of, you know, but it's so informative. Is it before? That's a normal family. That's a thing. Before you and I could meet at a restaurant in Georgetown and your husband and my wife and we could have dinner together. And like with Tucker, I knew Tucker, you know what I mean?

And, um, and like, you could have dinner together. And think that what Tucker was saying was crazy. And I told a degree with, and I don't agree with, you know, after stuff, but you know what it didn't mean? It didn't mean that I thought that he should be tried for treason and execute it.

“And that's what happened to me. And I mean that not figuratively. I mean it literally. That's what”

people were saying. And that's what people of real importance were saying. Those were the words that were coming out of, the, the, the, the mass and, and I'm paraphrasing of people like, um, like Steve Bannon and people like Rudy Giuliani, people of authority. And it changes everything. Is how can he even have a discussion for us? Is this how could I go out and talk about, uh, how could I respond was that cocaine mine? Like, what do you want? You want me to take a drug test because I'm taking a

drug test almost weekly for the Department of, you know, of corrections and, and probation, you know, I have a probation officer. You know, I'm on release until trial. You know, but what do you do? Do you, is that the statement that you make to the, the New York Post? It's impossible. It becomes impossible. But what do you do? You realize this. And I don't know if you feel this way in your, in your own life. Is it, you know what the real problem is? It's not out there. It's not

that person. If I could just get Steve Bannon to tell the truth, if I could just get Rudy Giuliani to stop lying about me. If I could just get Constantine Collector's day that he wrote to me, if I, like, it's not there. You realize in order to survive, it's all inside. Every single piece of it is about figuring out how to love yourself and not living that

shame and in order for you to be able to be of service first, arts, you know, Melissa,

like return the beautiful thing that she gave me, which was a chance, that to be of service to my dad, to return the unconditional love, which is not love without consequences, not love

being held accountable, that that person still loves me. All right, you guys. When I think about

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there's a special discount plus free shipping from our listeners today. Again, that's getnativepath.com/candes. I think that was also what came across in your interview with Andrew Callahan where after I watched it, I think it's sort of edited by opinion about that relationship between your dad because I think since the laptop scandal in my mind, it was a, I guess if it's a cartoonish where it was like, well, you can do whatever you want, you had some old crack, we know we're just

powerful, we'll cover it. That's the cop, whatever. We've had so much power, we've acquired so much

power. And then when I saw you really defending your dad over the George Clooney thing, I was like, okay, this is just a normal father-son relationship. People can't apply that for some reason when you're talking about a president or somebody that has access to power, but he just loves his dad. And this is the way any normal person would defend their dad. If they said something about

“your father, if it's something about your son, like, this is so normal that I think that's what”

was a bit, like, resting for me, I was like, this is very normal dynamic. He doesn't care if Jake tapers on his side, he doesn't care to her Clooney is on his side. That's his dad that you're talking about. And he's having a natural reaction that I would have, if someone was talking about my dad, my grandparents, my sister, my cousin, even though even when they do something wrong, by the way, it's like, okay, no, well, like, that's my family member who did something wrong. And so you

have no right, and I will, I will breathe fire on someone. And that's kind of, and you're right, and now it's getting dirtier, the game's people are playing or dirtier, and it is about wanting you to feel unsafe. And I think that is something that is so new when you have people posting your address, posting where you are, knowing that you have children. And yeah, I really do, well, it is over perspective, like for me, it was me changing my mind on Israel. And suddenly,

I'm getting the New York Post treatment, and I'm getting all these people coming after me, and I'm going, this is my perspective. You're welcome to try to debate me on why I feel the way I feel about what is because I have two eyes, about what's happening in Gaza, but to do these tactics where you're trying to destroy people is that feels very, very new to me. Yeah, and let's be honest, I hate that phrase. Okay, I got it from my perspective, was this.

I know where that started, and that started when Donald Trump from rally stages started, the Where's Hunter, or D.L. Where's Hunter, calling response routes, and then they printed t-shirts, and then they made hats, and then they made mugs, where's Hunter? And then they showed up my door, I didn't have any security, I didn't have anybody, I had a can't afford that, and in my life, particularly at that time, and they literally showed up in my door with bullhorns and maggots,

and on the direct, and the way that they got there, is New York Post published on the front page on its cover, at the aerial view of my home with the address, and then in the things,

and you know, and so they showed up. Wow, and notice it was what six months pregnant at the time,

“you know, she got in the car, because she was alone at the time, and in bed off, and they followed her,”

and they ran her off the road, you know, she panicked, and then, you know, she got and they did it again, and they surrounded her, and that's new, man. That is new. And like similar to you, is it like before I sat down, I heard where you live, what your the level of security that you have, or didn't have, and you know, what your perimeter of your property is like, out the hell do I know that, and how is that even remotely safe? Because you have people,

you know, you're basically spoke your truth, and they decided that you cannot exist,

and so therefore, I don't know what's going to happen, but for some reason, I think it's appropriate for me to say, tell you what what Candace's address is, who lives there in the level of security issues. Yeah, Tim, what we're doing that was one of the most interesting things to do. My dad said to me, is I have to stop saying the F word. But it was, no, it was like, seriously, that to me it was like, it's a declaration of war. Like they know I homeschool my kids, they know,

and he's describing the security apparatus, and he's doing it in this rant trying to be impassioned about the fact that I don't support Israel or I don't support everyone, whatever his motivation was, there was zero reason that you would be describing the perimeter of my house outside of wanting

someone to get harmed, and like I first first of all, like, I'm not like Tucker Carlson, and I say,

“people all the time, that's why I get so worried because when Tucker gets to cost it in public,”

he just has this like total happy warrior demeanor. I will call someone's eyes out for my kids. Like, I'm not the property to try. We will shoot you. Like, I will shoot you, and I will kill you, and I will happily go to prison before you have one opportunity to even make, and I'm I'm going to think about what you're going to hurt my kids. That's just me. That's just me. By the way, I've said it over and over to my podcast. I will smile in my mug shot, okay,

because I did the right thing, and I have no qualms about that. So when he did that, I was like, okay, this little beanie boy, okay, little beanie boy. I see exactly what you're doing. The whole world sees what you're doing, and you are doing something that you, because you want my children to get harmed, and then if something happens to them, you're going to go, "Why don't know how that happened?"

“That's how I was describing the perimeter of our home and talking about what her security is,”

which was in that way. It was kind of stupid. What are we even talking about? That's exactly why they do it. Is that even if the chance is this small? The reason that they do it is exactly that is to make you really afraid, not for yourself, for your four kids, for your family, for the people that work around you. And by the way, I'll tell you, is that I have the same approach

that I think Tucker has to it, and then I don't know, which is basically like,

I can do it. Like, I can diffuse a situation. I can do it. Melissa, people kill you. Yeah, I'll kill you. I'll ask questions later. And she's exactly the same. And you know what really worries me? Is that? Is that? Is that? Is all of a sudden, we're all talking about violence, you're talking about violence. Violence is defense, but now you're talking about violence. And then they kind of go, oh, you're gaslighting us. This is bullshit. You're fine. You're really rich.

And you this, and that you can take care of yourself. It's like bullshit. Did you see what just happened to my best friend? Yeah. Like, I mean, we just watched you talk early and he had a full security apparatus. Yeah. We still don't know what happened to Charlie Kirk. There's zero interest. That's another thing that just completely, for me, was like done with Trump whatsoever. Like, I mean, there's there's just no way for someone who came from the inside and watched the work that Charlie

did to get this people elected. Don Jr. was like a brother to Charlie literally like a brother to him. And to see the Trump brothers to see Donald Trump himself, Cash Patel, who Charlie pushed for him to lead the FBI, had him on his podcast, JD Vance. Like, you know, came out of nowhere. Charlie was like not sleeping to make that happen. And to see all of these people have zero interest in the obvious holes in the story. Even if ultimately the holes get filled and there's a picture

that makes sense, which I put that at zero percent chance. But let's just, you know, the fact that they have zero interest and they're just accepting the narrative. Like, what this has done to me and I've said this, I'm just done with politics. I'm just done with politics because I can't even begin to comprehend it. And again, that element of gas lighting that's happening here, where they're pretending that the people who are noticing that none of this is making sense are the crazy ones.

went down and none of it makes sense, but just accepts this slob. It is the most infuriating thing.

And it's just fully removed the scales of my eyes. And I've stopped with this left first,

it's right. Democrats are Republican. I'm like, this is sheer evil versus good. But this is like sheer evil. By the way, we're real. Exactly. Like, it is, it is good versus evil. Yeah. It is the, they, they have torn the mask off of this. I said, you before, is that I pray to God that by the end of this, that you think of me as a friend because if anything ever happened to me, I want you. You listen to him up. You fit. Like, oh my God. It's not happening with our

car. And the criticism of you for asking the questions for someone who was like a brother to you, it's like, what the F, were you talking about? Yeah. That's the guy I talked about.

And by the way, you turned from someone who you've attacked and you've, and politically,

you've, you know, had all of your criticism which I'd have no problem with and we disagree on. So many things. But I listened to you and I go, right on. Like,

“Epstein, like, you want to figure out why they don't want to let the, the release all the Epstein files?”

All you got to do is literally look at a picture of Trump standing on his stage at his inauguration and look behind him. Yeah. I mean, it's like every single person. He's interacting his donors without question. I mean, it's crazy. Like, Paolo's in Pauli and this and that and the other thing and all of these things is like, okay. And by the way, like, anyway, my point is, is, yeah, is like, when is it, when are people going to kind of wake up to the fact, and it's not left

to right? This is a really, really horrible group of people. They're pulling strings that, um, that impact us all and they make us think that because you and I disagree on, you know, the graduated tax rate or some social issue is that we are sworn enemies. I mean, not just, you know, like sworn enemies that I deserve violence. And I, and I could see them and it does seem like

“both sides have woken up without question. My audience is now split and I still say what I believe”

haven't changed my position on abortion. I'm Catholic. I have, you know, there's nothing that has changed. I think they're just hearing me for the first time and I do think there was something about the Charlie Kirk assassination that everyone just sort of looked up. You know, we just sort of all looked up at the machine and was like, wait a second, what is this? Because they expected Trump to be right or die. They expected cash. I mean, wow, this is going to be solved in,

in the clearest way possible because the entire political apparatus that has the power and the Department of Justice is in the hands of Charlie Kirk's friends. Like, that was how I felt,

right? This is it. No, whoever did this is never going to get away with it because these are Charlie's

friends. And what do we get? Do the people that Charlie Kirk made? He tried to make these people. That's exactly right. You'll get let a youth revolution to get these people elected in power. He was right or die to the level of disloyalty or fear. I don't know what it is. Disloyalty is is loyalty, maybe guided by fear, but it's so disturbing. And I cannot, I cannot forgive Trump, the Trump family, what they have done or what they have not done for Charlie.

It makes you one of these. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm full on. I'm like, call me. I'm like, you, where I'm like, oh, that, what is the shame tactic of the day? You're calling me in spirit. There's great. I'm like, you'd be a fool to believe this stuff that they're telling us today. The stories are telling us. I mean, it's, it is something that is just so disturbing. And I think that the Charlie assassination has, it's just so crazy. Like, as he was so Republican and conservative,

I think it's brought people together in a productive way. Yeah. I look, I'm, I'm here and you're here. And the, I, I really think that we're not unique. You know, I think very, very kind of emblematic is that like, I'm, like, let's put the past, you know, not behind us. Like, I could explain anything you want. I'll talk about anything that you want to talk about that you still have questions about or that anybody is with, but like, this isn't right. This, we're witnessing right now,

is not right. The level of corruption, the, the obfuscation, the, I mean, whether it's Butler or Charlie or, but these things that, that, it's just not right. And I mean, it's so glaringly not right. It's almost as if they're just saying at you. They don't, they're out of

“been trying here. We, like, we aren't, you know, would tie up anymore. And that's what I keep saying.”

I'm like, they're, it's so disrespectful that we're not even getting good, good,

four assassination attempts, the first president that's ever survived four assassination attempts.

“They quietly, they lied to us about things. They make a big deal. And then they make it want to,”

you know, it's going to go away. They're going to keep pretending and telling us that this is a totally normal grieving widow. Okay. No one's buying that. Like, that something's just not right here. Everyone can see that is not how you would react to your husband being shot. And this sort of just, I'm fine. And I feel like two weeks later, I fully accept a narrative. I have no interest in anything else. It's over. Let's close it. I forgive him. Let's move on. You're, you're asking us to abandon

our common sense. Now, our humanity is what you're asking us to do. And that kind of seems like where we're at. Like, they're insisting on this. And I'm going, where is this going to go? Because we're not doing the thing they want us to do. Like, they're just constantly giving us a slap all the time. I mean, even the recent White House Correspondents dinner, there was so much theater to it after. So much theater. And now it's kind of, okay, secret service, maybe shot,

each other. And we're just kind of kind of quietly move on. But Trump needs a ballroom. Like, that's a normal reaction. Hey, there's a shooting duck. Hey, whoa, we better get that ballroom. By the way, it's going to cost a billion dollars now. And by the way, it's not from donors. And by the

“way, we're going to do it. Like, it's just like it's just the constant, I think talk about gas lighting.”

It's been, this has been just, this, and we're not even, we're even a year into Trump's second term. We're a little over here. A little over here in a second. And I don't think there's just been, I'm like, how are we going to deal with four years of just being gas lit every five seconds and told

that, but MAGA literally MAGA is not MAGA anymore. And what was actually never Trump, which was actually

pro Hillary Clinton, if you think about it, that's now MAGA. It's literally people who have been against Trump the entire time, who are lecturing us about this stuff, like the Mark Levin's and the Ben Shapiro's. And like, we're MAGA and the Laura Loomer's, like, you know, we're MAGA now. Okay, great. Then I'm not MAGA. Like, I am, I've never agreed with these people. I am opposed to these people's ideas. I am opposed to unleashing an actual lunatic who has had to be baker-acted and put on

psych 51-50 holds by her own parent who fear her. I'm opposed to that actually being unleashed upon the population. Melissa, she's a 51-50. I had to, I'm someone that she's good. That person's going to get 51-50. What are you talking about? What's 51-50? It's like, you're telling us this is diagonal. Like, this is what we do. And so it's been a, it's been a challenging time because you do have to have, like, the humility to admit that I'm quite embarrassed about it. The president of the

United States of America has posted images of himself as a king. I think, have it doesn't

“time now. Like, when, when are people going to wake up and go, okay? Like, if that's what you want.”

And by the way, if that's what you want, then, you know what? I know that there is a, that there is a vast majority of Americans, but some that are really going to really, really have a problem. Yeah. Really have a problem. And I got forbid. And this whole thing is, is it, we, we all need allies now

because they do have an enormous amount of power. You know, the one of the things that I always think

about is, is that it's so easy to silence people, but it would be particularly easy for insisting to go. Like, if, if, if someone, like, the whole cocaine in the White House thing, I'd by the way, I, I look at that, that your families, is it, like, I, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but I know my truth. And that's all I can do. And you prefer to crack anyways. 100%. Okay. And I would not have forgotten it in a cubby. Not if you're crawling on the

go into the situation room, which I've never been in before. Okay. Exactly. I mean, Jesus Christ. Anyway, but my point is, is it, what if they, you know, what if I'm flying back to LA and, you know, or when I go through security and they find drugs in my bag, who would believe me that I'm clean and sober? Who would possibly believe me? No one. No one. No one. And I could take drug tests and I could prove it. And I could, you know, I mean, literally, I, I pack my bag in front of a witness

everywhere I go so that at least I would be able to say that. Here's a crazy part. Is it idea that I would think that there is a government in power capable of doing that, says everything anyone needs to know about where we are. Yeah. The idea that you feel unsafe in the United States of America because you disagree with the current administration on a issue that 70% of Americans agree with

of a population in Gaza. You know, whatever you think about my father's policy is relates, I always say to people, you know, one thing he didn't do, he didn't greenlight a, to turn Gaza into a Trump golf course, you know, with the Major D being Jared Kushner, with $4 billion in Saudi money. It's despicable. It's just like they did the deal before. I mean, when he posted that,

oh, I never forgot that posted the Trump, like here's what Gaza could be and like I could

“have anyone building and I was like, but literally that's what they're doing. This is dead children,”

like you're literally saying this is all going to be fine because we're going to get up a Trump resort or something, positively despicable. I mean, just positively despicable, tasteless, indefensible, and yes, in Jared, it wasn't a joke and that is the deal. And that's what they're doing. Literally doing it. By the way, they're doing it out in the open. I mean, it's not as if they're hiding it in any way. I mean, they are making deals as they go through. You know, like I always

say to people, it's like you had such a problem with me. I didn't do anything. I'll take the paintings. I didn't do a single business. I, you know, every single person that bought a painting from me during the time my dad was there in the, in, in, in office. I had two shows and probably sold a, a total of 20 paintings and 13 of them to my best friend. And that's it. That's it. And you had a problem, not you. Well, you two, but they had a problem with me as being this emblematic

emblem of corruption. These guys. Okay. Don Jr. got the single largest loan guarantee from the department of defense ever handed out of over $600 million for an energy company, a fusion energy

company, of which he has zero, zero experience it. They have gotten Jared Kushner, who's never

run a private equity fund has now a $4 billion private equity fund with 80% of the money coming from the Middle East of which he continues to raise as he's is the ambassador at large on behalf of the Trump administration, not as a political pointy, but simply as a son of law of the president to come to a peace deal of a war in a ran that they started. It is cost the economy billions and billions of dollars for war nobody wanted that every president before them before him was pressured

by the Israelis to get into in every single one regardless of what you think of them from George from Jimmy Carter, from President Reagan, through both of the bushes, through Clinton, through my dad, said, you're out of your (bleep) in mind and she's the reason why this is what's going to happen. So who benefits right now? You know, the benefits? The people that are making trades of billions of dollars on market manipulation that occurred and what you're all about. It's literally

out of open, but who's going to, who's going to, you know, who's going to, you will not get to came out of me, like I so far off the Trump chain, he's posted it. Oh, no, by the way, and I'm not even saying it. It's embarrassing. But it is embarrassing. It is embarrassing because we got behind him as the answer to corruption. We thought he was going to be this outsider. You know, he's going to go to DC. He's going to drain the swamp and then he became the Loch Ness Monster. You know,

and so it's like, I don't know what it is about that swamp, but you get swimming in it and it's like people do this. And yes, it has been for Israel, not to say that Trump wasn't pro-Israel. Most presidents actually are pro-Israel when they go in there and they go anti-Israel, they kind of end up dead.

“But it's where they, you know, sort of get kicked out. If you want to talk about Nixon and the”

scandal of Watergate, which I revisited and did think that that had a lot more to do with his shifting viewpoints. But that wasn't the issue. Like, I was pro-Israel, generally speaking, not very educated about the topic. It's this level of corruption that you're talking about when you are willing to let real Americans be harmed. Their day-to-day lives be harmed. They're suffering at the gas pump. Their groceries are expensive. All at the, so that you could further enrich

how much more money does Trump family need. I just, like, literally how much more money do you need like that you're going to allow this to happen. Don't, don't you just want to have now the legacy of being a good president? I mean, this is, yeah, I would have to say to you about like the cryptocurrency

thing. I think there's incredible prominence in cryptocurrency. I believe in the, you know,

meme token. I want to, I'll do something one day to create a community and there's, there's really good reasons to do it. There's really interesting ways and I know it did disagree. I just

“happen to be kind of like a cryptocurrency. I mean, just because of my interest, I think it is”

credible freedom in world in which we've been controlled by banks. So if you have the same

money come from kind of thing? Is it, like, I truly believe in, in what Satashi, you know, kind of

“the manifesto of Bitcoin. But that's just me, regardless. My point is, is that they had such an opportunity.”

It had such an opportunity. I'll give you this. Once you look at the, the, the, the, the conspiracy, there's go look up, outluffed and Alexander Smyrnov, they're the two principal individuals that made the only claim that people hung their hat in, in Congress and elsewhere, as it relates to my dad in corruption, bribery and stuff like that. One of them is a fugitive from justice, one up by Interpol in the United States government, Gowloft, who is a former IDF

officer who is believed to be living in Israel as a fugitive, which is really, will not help us locate. And the other one is Alexander Smyrnov, who is a known Israeli intelligence agent, those are the two people, although who was in a prison in the United States was so serving six years and they can't find him. Your prison can't find him in his prison, in the prison. He is on furlough, but no one knows where he's been furloughed to. Within it, the only passport that he has is an Israeli

passport. There are forces that I used to take. Oh, this is bullshit. Have you ever read the devil's chessboard? Yes. I'll end all this. Looking into the CIA, I read this book, chaos, that then led me to the devil's chessboard. It's actually on our list for Mr. Read for the book club. Yeah, it'll knock you chaos. The CIA, the mansion's up. That was the one that knocked me and I was like, "What the heck is our government? What is going on?" It's a good chessboard. And I realize that

“anyway, what the CIA is capable of and you think it's all a conspiracy and I think that's what”

their fearful love is that people will have a wake into that. And so when they're kind of trying to throw red meat now, what you see them doing, the left, the right, it's just not landing the same anymore because we just realize that there is a death of the chessboard. That's why I have in terms of the left, like you think I'm going to defend the DC elite of the left? They crushed my dad. They saw their chance. They did everything in their power to push, push him out.

You know why? Because he was never part of that club. He was never part of the Epstein class.

He lived in Delaware. Everybody the thing that you can think of, whatever you want about my dad is that literally my dad never bought a stocker a bond because he made a commitment in 1972 when he was 30 years old after Watergate never to own a stocker a bond. And he did. My dad was a poorest person ever to enter the presidency and the poorest person not poorest. I mean, he had money, he had broken written the book, and he had done well.

But he had the least amount of wealth and trained the presidency in modern years since 1900. Then anybody. And when he was in the United States Senate, he was not only the the poorest man in the Senate, not poor again. He made over $170,000 an average over the course of

45 years. But not just the Senate, but 535 members of Congress. He was never a part of that club.

“And that's what I wish, like you knew. That's what I was they knew. And I am not here in any way”

to defend the DC elites of my own party. I think that just as complicit in all this bullshit. No, without question. Like the Nancy Pelosi's, what's your opinion on Kamala and she liked her? I didn't. I don't want to say anything. I didn't know the vice president that well. Okay. I mean, and she was always nice to me personally. And so that was my, you know, but I didn't have, the other thing that people think that I was like living at the White House,

I literally didn't leave my home because it was really hard to leave. I stayed in the hill that I lived on until the fires came. That's where I was. I was with Bow and Melissa. Try to make it through. And not try to make it through thriving, making it through would otherwise have seemed like a horrible, horrible life from any outside perspective. So I'm not judging the question,

No, she did nothing personal to you. She was nice to you.

“Never did anything personal to me. I think that she is, you know, so kind of like the machine stuff.”

Yeah, exactly. You know, I don't, in terms of all of that stuff, I'm, you know, I think I'd tough enough to realize that that's part of, like when you get to politics at that level, people could have, I think, have this misperception of me, is that for 50 years I was a crack addict and I was that picture. You know, I mean, I went to Yale Law School, you know, I served in the Clinton administration. I was chairman of the board of U.S. U.N. World Food Program,

which is the largest humanitarian organization in the world. I served on 16 boards before I ever joined the board at Burisma or anything. I taught at Georgetown for, I was, you know, taught at the master's program with school and for service for four years. Action. Yeah. Yeah. And that was something that surprised me to not to be rude, but I, I thought you were dumb. Yeah. Because I don't know maybe because Megan McCain was on the view for too long or something and I was like, here we go,

just like rich political kids. Like, I mean, she, she's just so dumb. And yet she's just always here,

like, they're just giving her stuff. And so I think there's also that perception where it's there. By the way, kids don't work. Aren't smart. Yeah. And so I was kind of expecting you to be sort of a Megan McCain. Yeah. And then when I watched it, I was like, oh, wait, he actually has, he has brain cells, which is, by the way, remarkable that you didn't kill him all off when you're on crack. That totally before, that I think they got pickled all the, all the, all the market.

Yeah. There's something like that. So I was like, this is interesting. He's not a total idiot. So there is, there are the stereotypes of rich kids who just keep getting handed all of these awards in life. I said everybody is that if there's anything ever, anybody in the history of America that benefits from low expectations, it's me. Is it? People are like, oh my God. Like, you're not dumb. More fun. You haven't pulled out your crack pipe yet. It's just really crazy. But that gives you an

idea, by the way, of the level to which I was muted because they didn't want, you know,

“you have to subvert yourself to a machine to a certain degree. And like, it wasn't up to me”

if I wanted to go out and like, rail at the machine, rail at, you know, go on and argue with Jake Tapper, you know, cool guy. Because then I become even more of the story. But you give up your voice in that way. And it's incredibly emasculating. And particularly when the, the portrait that

is being painted of you as a, a near-to-well that never did anything in their life. Like, like,

you want to talk about experience? Well, look, I've got damn resume. I have 10 times more experience in 10 times more things. And I know I am 10 times more well-read than either one of the Trump boys, regardless of what you think about them. Now, you know what I can't do? Is that I'm not a great shot, you know? And, and I don't know anything about real estate. And I don't know anything about making money. And that's why I'm about, you know, a few million dollars in debt. And I don't.

I, and I need to change that one around. So there's some way at the age of 56. But the portrait that was painted on me has given me this credible gift. So I can walk into your house into your studio. And I guarantee that my followers are going to go, I still think he's not, you know what? Like, can you believe me? He didn't go do lines in the bathroom. That was my reaction when I was Andrew Kalin. And I was like, wow, he's actually thought through his addiction. He's talking

about the ritual. Like, this guy's not nitty. And you're right. I guess you do benefit from having exceedingly low expectations. But it was sort of like you said the first time you spoke. And of course, you did sort of have to be quiet because otherwise you would have definitely hurt your father and

“there, there's a machine that's kind of bigger than you that you have to say. Right, so, yeah, you”

could tell that I even went back, my dad just said, honey, that was, that was really beautiful parts of it. I can't have to use it with the effort that much. It was like coming from you,

but the thing about my dad, though, is he, he, at least from the temperature. He would, he never

talked to us that way, ever. Like, around around my mom or, you know, but anyway, so I'm trying to curb the effort or it's just from my mom and dad. All right, you guys, summertime expenses in 2000 and 26 are stacking up faster than ever, leaving Americans feeling like the only option is swiping their credit cards. This keeps you trapped in a cycle of high interest debts. American financing has a way out. This is not about shortcuts. It's a real strategic plan to reset your finances and

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when you're, when your mother died in the car accident? Just about three. I was a month away from three, I was a month away from four. My sister asked me about 18 months and who my oldest college named after Naomi. Given memory of her? It's a, I don't know for certain, the things that I have,

“which I believe are memories, because it would be very rare at that age. I have distinct memories”

of my mom carrying us around in picnic past it. And I even have a distinct memory of the car, not the accident of the car. But I don't know if it's because I've been steeped in stories. The beautiful part, like everything, there's a, maybe I've ever read any of the, the nostic hospitals, you know, you really should, because I know you're, I, I've listened to you talk about your Catholicism and your faith and I'm like a toddler in the faith and there's so much,

it's like so rich. So it's really cool. One of the things that I've always been a student of,

because when I went first went to Georgetown, the two closest people after I grabbed Georgetown were two Jesuit priests. One was named Ted D.C.ac. and another one was Bill Watson.

“And both Father Watson and Father D.C.ac led me into this idea of service. I started, I think,”

called the Jesuit International Volunteers with Father Watson. I mean, excuse me, Father D.C.ac. and then I went to the JBC because of Father Watson, which is like the Mestic Peace Corps, you know, and I did that for a year. And then when I opened up my own law firm, my, on my clients were Jesuit universities, because I was friends with presidents of the universities that were just like five or six years older than than me. You know, they're now becoming presidents of St.

Joe's and Grant and Loyola and all these Jesuit universities Detroit Mercy. And, um, but anyway, the Nostocospels, the Nostocospels were, um, uh, they were found, uh, a Nodge homony and they,

they were written in the, uh, the period between Christ's death and the first two centuries.

And there's the Gospel Thomas Gospel of Philippe. And Constantine, I'm, now I'm going to the, you know, I'm very in Constantine's. Um, uh, Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Yep. And, but what he did in really what it was about was not a, um, uh, not a true transformation of faith. It was a way to consolidate power. So he made the, the Christian, um, uh, bishops, or, you know, 200 years into the, uh, it's the very, very early church. He made the Christian

bishops, his lieutenants and enforcers as it related to, um, uh, the religion so that he can control the more radical elements of it. And so that is when they came to an adoption of just for Gospel. And, um, because all of these other writings that became, uh, that you could get executed for, um, money that is really beautiful, really beautiful, um, portraits of like the Gospel of Mary Magdalene in Jesus' relationship with Mary Magdalene. But anyway, in the, it's not a

Gospel, but it is one of the texts. I think it's called, uh, the Acts of John. There is a thing that

“Christ says and he says, you, uh, I'm paraphrasing. You must learn to suffer as I do in order to be able,”

not to suffer. And that is the greatest lesson of everything is not having gratitude for all the

we couldn't have this on his conversation. I couldn't get to know you as a human being. If every single thing didn't occur behind it, I would not be all this, this gift of being alive on a daily basis, the way that I do. If I hadn't overcome meeting suicide dozens of times in motel rooms,

in places that I could never afford to be found dead. You know, and it's that piece of life

“that, like the only way I got it is when they just sort of all my clothes,”

hardened feathered me and put me in the center of town and said, look at him. And I, and I survived. When you survived that, you kind of go, what am I going to do with my life? Well, the number one thing I want to do with my life is number one, take care of me. Yeah, you take care of me. I feel like I have to say, like I'm really sorry that I contributed to that, like I just feel really shitty, like I feel guilty, because like hearing you talk about,

I mean, basically, having the worst moment of your life, like I always speak about on my show,

how a lot of these kids growing up aren't going to even know what it was like before social media, where you could just make a mistake and like have that be over. And you got to grow up and now it's like they're digging and they're finding people's tweets from when they're 17, they're idiot. They wrote the N word once and they like want to hang them when they're 40. And I just, I just saw you as a caricature and it was, it was definitely like I said, like feeling gas lit by the political machine

convinced that it was just the left that part took in this political machine. And I just like really want to say like, genuinely, like I'm so sorry that I just didn't even consider he's a crackhead. And like, you know, like that's actually a very relatable thing and he shouldn't be, you know, like to have that is just unbelievable to consider every worse thing than I am, like I told you before we started, I cry very easily. Like, but I do, I just feel like I,

“my, it's not who I want to be. And I think I've, I've come a long way from that in general.”

And like, but I did part take in just the inhumanity of just look at this guy at the worst moment of his life, like with prostitutes, he's on crackies on drugs. And we should make fun of him because it makes us feel good. Or it makes us feel like we're somehow beating the machine. And that it was, I think, a really warped viewpoint in hearing you speak about it today. I'm just like, wow, you're so gross that I particularly, you have so much, and I mean this in a good way, so much

power, because I think that your audience absolutely trust you. And the reason that they trust you is because you've shown it enormous amount of courage of beating your mind, particularly as a related to someone that you love like a brother. And everything that is transpired since then, which is a immediate rejection of power and a immediate rejection of annoying that you are just going to get the ship beat out of you. And for you to say that to me, I truly mean it, but just from a

purely selfish point of view, it means the world. And I didn't, and I truly didn't come here for that. I came here because, you know what, I has forgiven this every day without any expectation that I will be forgiven. But I know the people that I heard, and I still do, and I'm not being remotely perfect. And I still screw up and, you know, but I got it. Like, if we,

“it had this conversation in genuinely authentically, believe that, like, I think just opens the door”

for, and a few other people without being, you know, with all humility, like maybe, you know, maybe a few other people. And there is a freedom in it, too. Like, there's a freedom that your worst moments have just, like, yeah, what are you going to say? Yeah, I mean, like, you got me butt naked up with a crack pipe. So I mean, there's, I survived it. And so you have it, and it allows you to kind of return to who you are, because it's, you know, addiction is, yeah, I wouldn't

wish it, I always say, like, you know, people have grown up and seeing what it's on to families,

and seeing a lot of stuff when I was younger, like, really made me, like, again, I'm like, wow,

about it. And the person that you were confronting or doing is, like, we're able to say, like, like, this is, you know, like, we got to do something about this. Come on, everybody, let's do something about it. I want to start an aftercare program for people for free, because the biggest thing that happens is people go to detox, and they go to recovery center, or rehab, and they get out of actually 30 days, and they get nowhere to go. And so one of the things that I'm trying to do is start a

free aftercare program. And there's a couple. There's one in Kentucky that is a really beautiful model, but if I could do that, you know, I work with it with a, with the organization called Boston Universal, I'm a development director there, and they do tennis rights, and, and, and homeless prevention. Like, I know what we all can agree on. We can all agree on

“that, you know, the people can't afford to pay the rent, and you need to be able to figure out a way”

to stay on the stay in their houses before it becomes a mother with three kids that are homeless. We know where that leads, but these kinds of things is what I want to use, what I'm doing, what, like, I want, like, I want to do that. I also want to make a living. I also want to do I also want to be able to pay my debt. I also want to be able to do the things that, you know,

I, you know, I also want to make art. You know, I started, um, finally, and like, you know,

I'm going to put all my art on my website, and people can come look at it, and if they want to buy it, they can buy it. And, like, because I don't really believe art becomes art until you share it with somebody. I mean, like, I told there's an observer of it. Now, I can, you know, I'm consenting my, my, my studio, which is my garage. But I want to do all of those things, and I want to be able to do it, and I want to be able to talk to you. You know what I mean? I want to be able to talk to the people.

I want to talk to them, like that family, necessary conversation, and say to the mom, like, the story should daughter tells you about the way that you, that you adopt that animals. It really moves me, um, the fact that you think I'm the spawner of the devil. Like, you know, we maybe have a discussion about it. You know, you know, it's a caricature, and I have a caricature of me that's been built up for years. So I should have been more empathetic to it,

“honestly, but it's when you're in it, you kind of don't really know that you're in it, I think.”

Well, not only in it, it is that you're in it to win it. And when everything is put in the political lands and in life or death, and you know, if we lose this election, you know, this is over,

and you know, you know, I will tell you this, is that I've never had somebody that just, you know,

you know, post staying longer than they're supposed to, but regardless, is that I think that that we all have a tendency to, to look at the time that we live in and say that it's worse than ever. Absolutely worse. And the fact of the matter is, is if, like you, if you, you know, your history is that like, this is a cycle. There will always be really bad people. We will always be disappointed in the end with leadership. We will always have corruption. It doesn't mean that we

need to accept it. It doesn't mean that we don't need to fight against it. It doesn't mean that sometimes really good people make the wrong choice. But what it does mean is that I have absolute hope. I've really truly still believe in America, even with all of the incons, that the, all of its faults. I mean, even after reading the devil chessboard, you know, you read that and you go like, and that's not about Democrats. It's not about Republicans. And if you go back and

you go back to Reconstruction, you go back to Andrew Johnson. You go back to, like, the, you know, the fact that the United States of America has not had, it was not, it's not been truly the United States of America until, you know, 1964, at best. And this whole thing, but I still really believe in the, the illusion. And the thing that makes me so mad is they have completely torn away that illusion and people feel hopeless. They feel like there's no chance to change it. They'll

care they gave this guy, they've arranged to do it. And he was the one who was going to blow everything

“up and make it better for everybody. And they're kind of like, wait a second. What happened to Charlie?”

Wait a second. Why are we going to war again? Yeah. You know, I think this is actually the most

important question. And I will make this my final question. I want to ask you, but I'm really interested about your faith life, your Catholic, your race Catholic, my school, and like, is you're talking

that seriously. I think it's a little mad at America right now. No, but he's been, I was

tweeted the same day as the Pope, by the way, by Trump when he said bad things about me. Well, real, let's go to the Vatican. I would love to. I would love to. It's the oldest place in the world. I love that. I just got back from Italy. I was there a long way to go. Yeah. I did my confirmation. Well, are you did? I did. I was, it was just the most beautiful. That's so cool. Unbelievable. Yeah. It was literally the same day that Trump posted

the time, most file person in the year. So I, I felt like there was even in that there was something divine because it was like looking at fake power and then the real power of like having, you know, a cardinal getting confirmed, being in Italy, the deep history, like what outlasts that, like there was something so fickle about it, like posting this photo of me when I was sick. Okay. Great. Wait. Hold on. Talk about humiliating people for sport.

So literally sent this to me right before I came into you. They knew that I was going to talk to you. And I promise you, I did not plan to do it. No, you're so fired. It was a prayer. If you are wise and understand God's ways, prove it by living an honorable life, do good works with the humility, the comes from wisdom. But if you are bitterly jealous and there's selfish ambition in your heart, don't cover up the truth with posting a line where jealousy and selfishness are not God's kind

of wisdom. Such things are earthly, unspeakable and demonic. Or wherever there's jealousy and selfish ambition, there you will find disorder and evil of every coin. The whole first piece of that, when you were just talking, is what's my faith? If you are wise and understand God's ways, prove it by living an honorable life. And the thing that I recognized is that, oh, from other

Theresa, I don't go to mass as much as I used to. I don't go to mass every Sunday. I would never

would miss a mass. You know, I went to Georgetown, I would Catholic. But what I realized is that my real faith is in that belief. Is that just do the next right thing. That's it. Whether it's

“the golden rule. And that doesn't mean you have to be weak in your empathy, but always be compassionate.”

I believe in the perennial philosophy. I believe that same exact message from the uponshads to the Gospels of Jesus Christ are all at base in terms of the red letter words of each of them are saying the same thing, love your neighbor. Like you would want to be loved. And so hard is thing in the world to do. So hard. But that's my faith. And I think that there are certain people that arrive at certain times that are messengers of that. And for instance,

I certainly don't agree with the Catholic Church on a lot of stuff. I certainly have a but I really am so proud of Pope Francis in now, hopefully, in terms of just the notion of social

“justice. And I think that there can be a practical application of that in terms of our leadership.”

I really do. I think that that that faith that is used as a cudgel is really, really dangerous. I think that I know a lot of people that I personally love and very close to that are part of an even jellical church, just killing the African American community, but that are horrified by the complexity of the of the certain section of the evangelical church in what's happening in the world today. So to me, my faith is very personal rooted in and it's rooted in

Catholicism. And then it's rooted in the society of Jesus, the Jesuit church in particular,

which they used to always call the Black Pope until we finally got a Jesuit Pope. And with the

eyes wide open, too, that the church as an institution is incredibly flawed and had been, but it but it gave me an enormous sense of community and belonging, just from a cultural factor.

“Well, I'm going to say is I really think you should go to compassion.”

Yeah. You should do that. Oh, I don't worry. I've been to compassion.

yeah, don't worry. Go back to the root, go back to the root and, you know, it is just so much there.

“And it's like, you're not, you know, you're just not enough, you're brains enough. I mean,”

hearing you describe that, I can do this. There's just something about, for me, like, the submission that is every mass and just remembering, like, the beautiful thing. Yeah. Beautiful thing is this. The beautiful thing is that I have been going to confession for six years. Wow. Right here. That's me. You know, I, like, that freedom, you know, would use

“feel like the only person that you could say this to, you know, and I'm not saying that it is not,”

like, like, my Emperor's thoughts that I'm, you know, as between me and God, but I am saying is that that feeling of release that the confessional is there for is the feeling that when I was

finally able to see beyond all of the noise that I received by just existing and getting up

every day and looking at an offer and seeing that my wife, who saved me. And in Bowie and my dad, as a dad, not as present, but just as a dad. In my mom and my sister and my aunt's uncles and everybody else, and then the wider circle, my friend George, you know, my friend Franny,

you know, I mean, my friend Bobby, like, people that came into my life and never left and

“despite it all, and there was nothing in it for them, but just grief and, where do you go?”

Pretty cool. It's everything. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, Hunter Biden, never thought this conversation would happen and it's just stranger things have happened and I'm just, this is truly been one of the

most powerful discussions that we've ever had. And I think it's because of your journey. You know,

you've lived through a lot. You lost your mother, your sister, and a tragic accident. You lost your brother to cancer. Maybe for a while, lost your dad to politics, political machine, lost yourself to crack cocaine. And somehow, I'm getting to everything. Yeah, it can't at all back. Yeah, I really did. I can't tell you how much means to me that you wouldn't invite me here into your home to be able to have this discussion. And I really, really made it. I'm really, really honored.

And I'm grateful that you took it and that you've accepted my apology because I just feel really sure about it, but um, guilt is good like we said earlier. Thank you so much for joining us. Amazing.