Hey Christopher Kimball here.
relationships, and we want to hear your stories. Do you spend all your time scrolling through reservation apps while your partner couldn't care less? Or maybe you dump your date
“for being a picky eater? Or maybe one of you loves to eat out and the other doesn't?”
So to share your story, please leave us a voicemail. The number 617-249-3167-1 more time 617-249-3167 or send us a voicemail to [email protected]. I'm Christopher Kimball and this is a special episode of "Milkstreet Radio." Today it's an extended cut of my latest interview with Jose Andres. What Jose isn't running 40 restaurants or feeding millions with world central kitchen.
You can find him cooking the foods from his home country, cracetas, megas, garlic soup, the list goes on and on. His latest book is Spain, my way. Jose, welcome, welcome back to Milkstreet. I'm so happy to be here with you again, Krish. Now, last time we talked, you didn't have 40 restaurants. I think you had 20 something. You serve 600 million meals around the world, rural central kitchen. I'm growing. And growing. And so,
how do you manage your time? I'm this serious question. How do you do so much? Yeah, I mean, sometimes probably regretted so much because I want to be here but then I need to be there and I want to be there but I need to be here. So you know, I make sure I balance my free time with my
hobby time with my business time. But for me, it's all the same. Cooking is the way I always
mean happy and feeding others is the way I'm the happiest. We talked about this at the time,
“but I think you tried to bring in food to Gaza from the water. Could you just talk about that?”
Like, what was your plan and what were the challenges? Well, with the labor food twice by boat in very difficult conditions, with no machinery, we could bring in and use using whatever we have there. But the purpose was clear, we had to be bringing food to the north, we had to be bringing food to to people that were going hungry and we were never diagnosed and answered. And on the day of the second mission is when the seven members of Bolshevik Kitchen perished by the drone attack by the
IDF. Obviously, this was a day that forever will be with me and the message is very clear. Conflicts should not happen, wars should not happen and especially civilians, humanitarians.
Hospitals, doctors, schools, press, they can never be victims in a conflict. They can never be
target. It's never excuse to target innocent human life. And that's all I have to say about this. So, you're involved with this massive humanitarian effort as you said 600 million meals and counting. And at the same time, you have all these restaurants and you're serving people food.
“It seems like the span of your interests and your energy is from the very worst of humanity, right?”
In some ways, to the very best because cooking for other people is one of the best things we could do is humans. They somehow, those things go together for you in some way. Yeah. I think we're close to a billion meals now, because only in between Ukraine and Gastelon, we've done more than 650 million meals together. So, the numbers are used staggering in how this organization keeps growing. In Ukraine, it was almost 300 days in and out.
But let me tell you where I keep going. The one I go, I see that in the worst moments of humanity,
always the best of humanity shows up. In America, when it's a tornado, when it's a hurricane,
or the fires in Altadina, and Palisade, there you don't see Republicans, there you don't see Democrats, there you don't see religions, there you see people helping people. And going the extra mile used to bring hope to others in the middle of the Mayhem. And I think that's what keeps me going. Let's turn to food for a second. You know, I think you write in your book,
Spain, my way.
which I love. But you said Mayonnaise is actually based on Mahon. And so the word Mayonnaise is a Spanish origin. Yeah. Mayonnaise is one that for Spain, obviously the connection with Mahon is real.
That is the capital of Manorca. If you've never been, it's in the Balary Islands, in the Mediterranean,
beautiful place. A place you will want to be born and probably you will want to retire. And the story will say that the French forces capture Mahon under the Duke of Richelier. It seems that the Chef of Richelier, they are in Mahon itself. God, the egg yolk and the oil, because you know, traditionally French will do it with butter or will do it with cream, but was no butter or cream available, but there we had plenty of oil. And they are in Mahon.
That's the place that Mayonnaise seems was really created. And I will go all the way in. Mayonnaise is. I Spanish invention. I am Hossein Dres, and I endorse this message. Even it was done like this story by French in the island of Mahon. If it happened in a Spain, it is a Spanish period.
Nobody can refute this very simple truth. You're a definitive guy. What thing I've always
wondered about, you know, I've talked about the garlic bread soup that you'd have towards the end of the month, when recipes are designed based upon what's really available, you're not doing it just because you like it. It comes out of the ground, it comes out of the need. How do those recipes migrate into the 21st century and still retain their meaning if the people making them, you know, have other options. They have more money. They travel the world. Does that still bread soup with
“garlic and water you made for me years ago? Does that still live in the 21st century in some way?”
I think it leaves everywhere. Maybe it's more difficult in the cities. You know, when you live in a city, you have a supermarket that has ingredients from all around the wall and you don't understand really any more that wonderful timing of the seasons. Either way, I do believe some of the best dishes really do come from the necessity of
the moment. One of the recipes I have in this book, Migas. Migas was one of the first dishes.
The really make me think about how much I was going to be loving, cooking and food. And this is when I visit being very young, the town of family member of my father, and he will have this big cast iron cauldron. And there he had the table wooden table that maybe was two, three generations old and you could see the marks of its life in the surface. And right there was this mountain like a volcano of bread crumbs. And that bread that was a few days old was not going
to go to garbage or two ways. So when he went into the pot with the fat of the pork melting,
“that dish of simple bread, toasted on its own, with a garlic clove as the only thing to give”
it a little kiss of some other flavor. And then fry egg after fry egg on the same calls the bread, the Migas, the fry egg breaking the egg yolk with the help of the fork, the bread kissing each other with the egg yolk and just putting the egg and the bread in the mouth. That's the moment that I have a feeling I fall in love with tradition, I fall in love with cooking, sometimes the least amount of ingredients if they are trade with respect can be the most sublime
of the dishes. You're listening to a special episode of Mostree Radia with Jose Andre's coming up culinary discoveries and explosions at the legendary restaurant L. Bulli will be right back. [Music]
“This is our class of the American Life. Do you know our show?”
Okay, well either way I'm going to tell you about it. We make stories. Old fashion stories that hopefully pull you into the beginning with funny moments and feelings and people in surprising situations and then you just want to find out what is going to happen and cannot stop listening. That's right, I'm talking about stories to make you miss appointments, and ignore your loved ones. This American Life every week, wherever you get your podcasts.
This is Mostree Radia. My guest today is Chef and Humanitarian Jose Andre's.
His latest book is Spain, my way.
You know, what are the things about you that is interesting is that on one hand,
“you know, garlic soup, and in the other hand molecular gastronomy, right? And you work”
at L. Bulli as well. So how do you, is it just because you're interested in everything in cooking, there's nothing you won't try or is your heart and soul still in simple cooking, but you're just, you know, having fun with molecular gastronomy. How do you get both of those ideas in the same head? Well, I know it's been sometimes a necessary controversy on modern versus traditional, the so-called molecular. And I say a necessary controversy because I will argue right here with you
that everything is molecular, my friend. Everything has a explanation through physics, everything has a explanation through chemistry, food, cooking, physics. They are united forever. So the main thing that we had is like we had the Harald Magis of the wall, the Herbates of the wall, the Ferranadrias of the wall, the science and food and cooking class that Ferran and I we created at Harvard at the School of Physics. It's a great way to learn science, but it's a great way
to understand what is the perfect temperature to cook a protein, what is the perfect temperature to control the boiling of an egg, etc, etc. And with that knowledge, it's how humanity going back centuries or thousands of years. Even if we didn't know the why, we were able to make cheese. We were able to make yogurt. We were able to make beer. We were able to make wine. Many of the things done to this day. We called the foods we love.
So explain to me how you ended up at Elboli. Frond just walked into the restaurant you were working at and thought you had promised. In the summer, I would be in this restaurant and see food restaurant called Lantui and was the best seafood restaurant in that town. And Ferran who was
“working in Elbugi, young, 24, probably. Me, I was my younger. And I remember that that was the first time”
I cook for him. And the first time I say hi, breathe conversation, but powerful enough. I already
knew of him, but I kind of find that that was kind of a calling that he will be coming there and when I already was thinking I should work in Elbugi. The next season I was there and obviously my life in many ways changed forever. Could you describe what that kitchen was like at the beginning? I mean, what it was obviously very different than almost any other type of restaurant. So how was it different? Well, I was at the very early, early moment of the big man.
Ferran that always was looking for new things and the new techniques. I remember one day that we were cleaning all these shelves of lobster. And we said, if we put the shelves of the lobster near the oven and we weighed days and then we bake it a low temperature because we don't want it to burn. And at the end we kind of put it in the coffee grinder and will the shelves of the lobster create the perfect salt. Well, we did it. And we did it with lobster and the spiny lobster and
main lobster and we did that and that and we realized that it didn't. It was not good. It was
“not flavorful. Hanoiroma. Hanoi. You see, that's what we did in the early days of Elbugi. We try a lot”
and we fell a lot. But when something will happen, will be magical. Was there something else that was really magical? Do you remember from being there? One of the dishes I was doing was these
amazing chips of vegetables. I had there my pot of foil and I was trying the chips little by little
and also part of another one of the dishes in my station was kind of a gelatin of almond milk. A dish that we call a hoblanco. So I had this gelatin and I was getting my missing glass ready and the gelatin I will cut these kind of cubes. And then I could see the theramware and he would check in the cubes. But all of the sun I began seeing his eyes and he was looking at the hot oil and he was looking at the gelatin between his two fingers and he passed it from his right
hand to the left hand and he keep looking at the oil. And we were all looking at each other in the kitchen thinking. Is he gonna put the almond milk in the oil? Yes. Ferran, throw the gelatin of almond milk
Into the hot pot of foil where I was frying the vegetables.
A big explosion happened. As every time you put the liquid in hot oil. So when he throws the gelatin
into the hot oil, were you thinking he's just crazy? Yeah, but then it like okay but we've never
done it. Somebody had to be the first person. 10 years later Ferran and Rhea created what we call the liquid croqueta of hamon. A very iconic Spanish dish that you find in many tapas bars. That croqueta became one of the legendary dishes of Ferran. That liquid croqueta 10 years later happened in that moment. I was describing you few minutes ago. Ferran show us the way. I'm Christopher Kimball and you're listening to an extended cut of my interview with Jose Andres.
“After the break Jose explains why you should never order churros at a restaurant.”
This is Moxtreet Radio. We're back again with Jose Andres.
I wanted to ask about Escabeche because I didn't understand this dish. You write an ancient technique from Persia for preserving food. I didn't know that. So to cook Escabeche, you cook it for a simmered in the fused vinegar, then let it marinate for a few days. So could you give me an example of how you might use this process that was originally for preservation? Escabeche obviously yes, it is a tickling method. So in Espenwe we've been doing Escabeches for
long time and some of the Escabeches that are more popular right now will be muscles.
“Nothing more delicious than I can of mehioness in Escabeche. It's almost like if”
muscles were created to be in this kind of pickle sauce. Pickle sauce that can be very simple.
It can be only some pimentons, the spines paprika and olive oil and the vinegar itself and maybe a piece of belief and to pepper cornstarch or recipes like Escabeche, I give here in the book that has garlic cloves and carrots and onions and thyme and rosemary and even I add a little bit of sherry on top of the sherry vinegar itself. When you make it with fish, let's say serdeans, you will cover them with this oil and vinegar. The vinegar slowly will be penetrating in the flesh
of the serdean, giving it a very nice level of acidity with all the flavor of all the aromatics. And that's something that can keep in the fridge for days or more. Go do it with tuna, you go do it with bonito. Escabeches of fish are great, but also we have Escabeches of meat, parterich. We love to do in Spain in Escabeche. Other meats preserve very well in this kind of acidic mix. So I recently had an eight week goat, a friend of mine who's a Turkish
chef cooked and we had a three ways, but the last dish was the ribs and he said the fat is so delicious. All I did was salt it and grill it. And there's a quote in your book you're talking about Al-Abraza. You said to me, this is one of the purest expressions of Spanish cooking
“and animal some salt, some fire and that's all you need to know. So I came away from eating that”
thinking, you know what? It's perfect. As he said, I don't want to put paprika on this. I don't put anything on this. It's the meat. It's the fat. It's the bone. It's the fire. That's all you need. And I was kind of a wake-up call for me because that's right. I mean that you just have to stop there, right? Yeah, sometimes we are over-complicate things. Sometimes we waste time with all these ricey pieces, all these spices, which I love, but that sometimes what if you let
the meat to speak for itself? And then you have the right charcoal with the right humbers, very hard. Then you go and put it on top and you turn one time and you turn another time until the surface began getting these nice and brown color that if you look with a lens very close up you see like these all these kind of minimal canos is floating in the surface of the meat and and then I like it rare, but warm, nice and brown in the outside, but not burnt. And then
You start it's lacing and you put in your mouth and it's tender and has the f...
you cook with and it's used to blind. You, you write a lot of this. If you're in a Spanish restaurant
“that has choros on the dessert menu, walk out and if it confused server as you why, you can tell”
them that Jose told you too. So why should I walk out in Spain and a restaurant that has choros on the dessert menu? Well, it can't be the one that has amazing choros and then that's the one that you shouldn't walk out, but usually choros, they're not for dessert. Right, therefore late, late, late, late nights before you go to bed is the last thing you eat, of her early morning breakfast and is the first thing you eat. So choros in a restaurant is not something traditionally you
will see. That's donning another moment in another part of the sequence of life, late night
or early breakfast, but never at the end of the dessert of a meal in a sit down restaurant.
There's also a tradition of Maryenda, which is bread with wine and sugar of the kids eat. So what? I'm going to try this with my kids. So I don't even know if that's happening anymore, but I remember being in these little town in Santa Coloma de Ferbello, outside Barcelona.
“And that's where I grew up. And there is where I remember that those of bread”
with a sprinkle red wine on top to let the bread absorb the wine and use the sugar and sprinkle. And that was so, so delicious. Obviously it was a great way for my brothers and I and the other children to fall asleep the one hour or two hours that our parents will have to have a break from the intensity for young boys. I don't know if today this will be allowed or even if my family will be persecuted without a whole loss of the land, but I can tell you that to this day is one of the most
vicious things I remember having as a child. You have three girls. How old are they now your kids? Carlota 27 in S. 23 and Lucia 21 and the great news is that they keep showing up at home.
“In this house, in this kitchen, they know when certain things arrive and they know that in the”
right season, I'm going to have these amazing Clementines and nectarines from Ohio, Bali, in California. When there is the season of Asparos over there is the season of Morels, I know that my daughters sooner or later are going to be showing up. And when they want something they know they can text and we're ready for Croquetas and the Croquetas will be waiting for them in the fridge. So I want to believe that my daughters in a way they keep coming back, obviously, to see their mother,
my wife, Patricia, myself. But I have a feeling that those foods of their childhood, who are the foods of my childhood, is one of the the reasons they keep coming back home.
Jose, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. I always give you my heart and let's cook together soon.
I love to. Jose, thank you for your time. Thank you, Chris. Big kiss. That was Jose Andres, this new book is Spain, my way. Thanks for listening to the special extended interview. To hear all of our episodes, please go to milkstreetradio.com or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find us on Facebook at Christopher Kimbles, Milk Street on Instagram at 177 Milk Street. We'll be back later in the week with more food stories
and thanks as always for listening.
Christopher Kimbles Milk Street Radio is produced by Milk Street in association with GBH. Co-founder Melissa Baldina, executive producer, Annie Simseba, senior editor, Melissa Allison, senior producer, Sarah Clap, producer, Caroline Davis, assistant producer, Maddie Arosco, additional editing by Sydney Lewis, audio mixing by Jay Allison at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Theme music by Tubeob Crew, additional music by George
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