Arsenio Hall

Hey, welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a friend, Sonet, did you finish your string cheese? Did you?

“Sonet, I look over, I'm about to start and Sonet has string cheese hanging out”

her mouth and she's shaking her head like, "Don't go there, don't go there, you did it so fast." You jammed it under the table. Yeah, I did, I'm holding it. Be proud of your string cheese, you know, there you go. Yeah, how is it, is it good string cheese?

It is good, thank you for having it in the fridge. I didn't know we had string cheese. You don't do the grocery shopping? I used to, and then about a week ago, I thought maybe I shouldn't do it anymore.

I would always be rushing out just before a guest right here.

Al Pacino's almost here, I've got to go to the market. You like this provolone. The market. The market. That's right, I said the market.

That's like where people in a fairy tale goes shopping. Papa bears down at the market with Goldilocks. Sonet, good to see you. Good to see you too, Bob. And that we're also joined, of course, Matt Gorley is out.

He's on the paternity leave.

“And we're very happy for him, but David Hoppings sitting in with us.”

Hello. Yeah, I'm here. Wow, you light up a room. All right. Listen, you had that coming, you know you did.

No, you're a fantastic fellow.

Thanks. And you're about to move into a new apartment very happy for you. Have you made the mistake of showing me a video of your apartment. And all I've done is give you a hard time. I was excited.

We were together whenever I got the email that we got approved. And I was like, oh, here's the new apartment. And ever since then I've regretted everything. Because I've used anything I saw in the apartment. It's very nice.

Yeah. It's two floors. It's got two balconies. And I started to go after him like, oh, two floors. One of my pan you.

You've got two balconies. I don't have two balconies. And so any time you open up to me as a friend, I quickly use it against you. Yes. You know what?

I don't want to speak anymore about our trivial matters. Because I am over the moon about today's guest. Very excited. This is a guy who I have a lot of respect for. I have a lot of respect for him.

And we have worked in a similar profession. And we have a lot of things. I think in common.

And I just have always heard he's a lovely guy.

And I'm so excited that we get to chat. So let's get right into it. My guest today is an actor. He's a comedian. He's a talk show host who now has a new book.

And I've read this book and it's great. It's titled Our Sineo. A memoir. I'm just, well, this isn't a job. This is just a really fun thing I get to do.

Our Sineo Hall. Welcome. Relieved. Relieved. Why relieved?

I should have prepared. Because being totally honest, if you have to take it out, take it out. Last night, me and how we Mandel arrived in Beverly Hills to do a benefit for abused animals. Uh-huh. With Jay Leno.

Yeah. So because this is last night about eight o'clock and I am thinking to get to bed, get up tomorrow, to Conan. And I'm looking at Jay in this green room. And I know keep up with all white folks business.

You know, I guess white. I do. I only keep up on white folks.

“But I do remember that you all had friction.”

What are under the bridge? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, Jay is. Your friends are laughing.

Water under the bridge. But I thought about it. And I'm like, wow, I hope Conan doesn't hate me. You know, because. What?

No, because I, you know, Jay is like a big brother to me. Sure. And we fought two me and Jay. We're like Caine and Abel. Yeah.

Brother's boat. We have kids killed. He does. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm like that fighter. No, no, no. I honestly, I'm just, I, just going to sound so corny.

And I get to do the things I want to do.

“And I honestly don't think about any of that stuff.”

I really don't. And I think I mean, white folks business. I honestly don't know what happened. But I do remember there was something. I was breastfeeding back in that era.

You know, you just had a medical miracle. How did you? You're actually lactating right now. You know, um, listen, I am. I, I, I, I so want you just to be a happy person in the world.

Because I was telling Adam today that I don't know one. I've had a guest. I mean, I filled my book with things I want to talk to you about. Um, I read your book. Uh, your memoir.

It's fantastic. It's great. I mean, really great. And you have such a unique story. And you're so honest in this book about everything about how you were feeling.

And one of the first things you addressed in the book is you say,

I want to write this book because I want to clear up some misconceptions. And one of the misconceptions about you is there are people out there that think you're a recluse. And you are not a recluse, you know, you might be hanging out with the wrong people. But you're not a recluse. [laughter]

And I'm talking about how you manned out. Um, no, but no, but, but, but our scenario, um, uh, you wrote this book to sort of tell your story. And it's, and it's a crazy story. It's a fantastic story. Yeah, there are a lot of things that I'm sure people will read and say,

that couldn't have happened. I mean, he was a magician. Johnny was a magician. So he thought, I'll do them. Yeah. He was outside a park after playing basketball with Mark Jackson.

And he saw Muhammad Ali doing a magic trick with a Kleenex. You know, yeah. Sometimes it sounds amazing and hard to believe.

“But I think I've just been blessed with an incredible life.”

Which is why I was so cool. Going home after quitting the show and chilling. Yeah. Well, you know, first of all, you and I both know what these shows take.

And then you were dealing with a lot of stuff that I never had to deal with.

So I take my experience, which I thought was really difficult. And I love the job as you did. But it's difficult. It's draining. It takes everything you've got.

And then I think, okay, but our scenario is dealing with a whole other layer that I didn't have to deal with. I mean, you've got when you're doing your show and we'll get there because I want to do a little of your origin story. But I want to get to, you know, it's 1989 and people forget that your show starts in 1989. And even though that sounds like it's the modern era, there's still stuff happening.

In 1989, where you're getting network notes, like, don't say brother so much on the show. You know, don't go into the audience too much because there are a lot of black folks in the audience. You're getting notes like that. I think about that calculation. You dealing with that kind of stuff on top of everything that I know about.

And I think that's an achievement. So be present for all that and keep your spirits up and do a great job. And you know, my desire was to do the show and put people in the mix that weren't in the mix. You know, when I was a kid, I'd watch the tonight show or, or I don't know, dinosaur. You also watch a lot of daytime.

You watched Merve Griffin. And it's really, it's, and Mike Douglas. And you know what, there's a lot of young people who don't know those people. And there's a lot of things that had talk shows in the day, time.

“And they had a certain kind of energy that I think you brought consciously or unconsciously into late night,”

which is you didn't have a desk because those guys didn't have a desk. You. And by the way, when I took over Joan Rivers had a desk and my producer, you know, my dream weaver, she made me get rid of it because she came to see me to stand up one night. Because I don't want anything in front of you.

In case you want to stand up, in case you want to move forward. And it will create who we are. Yes, you know, you, I mean, this is Marla Cal Brown. Is that right? Who you're a really good friend and your producer.

The two of you had this mission in mind, which is, and I just want to take people back for a second. Because we're talking about it. We might as well talk about it now and then we get to other stuff. I remember when your show came on,

people can forget how revolutionary that was.

You came out and you were doing a show that was completely different from anything that was going on. And in all fairness, you talked about daytime energy. There was a lot of things that I picked up things on my hard drive from my childhood.

There were times when I remember a specific day looking and seeing this new rapper that I knew about, but the public didn't quite know about yet and his name was Fat Joe. And he was with a friend who was on the show that day.

“And I remember thinking it's Sullivan just to have Diana Ross stand up.”

So the mass public didn't know who he was. But my audience needs to know. Yeah. And that is what I thought my job was. And I was like, you know, I didn't say it like over there in Section B.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't do it that way. But I said, yo, Fat Joe, stand up, take a bow. And that was from my childhood scene.

It's Sullivan. Diana Ross. Take a bow. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that was Sullivan. Yeah. I thought it was a guy.

He's doing mervegan. Yeah. Or someone struggling with a neuromuscular disease. That's what I was getting. And I thought a problem was.

Yeah.

“But I think the thing that I always really admired about you and to this day is that at a time when”

everyone thought these late night talk shows are this certain kind of thing. You came along and you said, um, I'm going to do what's right for me. What feels comfortable for me. Now, that sounds like an easy thing to do.

And I remember the one of their first times I met Johnny Carson and he gave me advice.

He said, just be yourself until he saw who I was. And he said, if you got anyone else, you can be. But. But. But it sounds like an easy thing to do.

It's one of the hardest things to do in the world. And you came along and you and you're pretty similar. And you're like, this is what the set's going to look like. It's going to be no desk. We're not doing that.

This is going to be. Um, a party. This is going to be everything that I've wanted my whole life because in your book, you detail that even is a kid. You're pretending to be Johnny Carson. You're pretending to be a talk show host.

You, you know, Oprah would say you manifested this. And you really did.

“I mean, it's pretty incredible show in my basement.”

The ghetto of Cleveland. I'm also a magician. That is a recipe for getting your ass with every day. Every day you walk. Just go.

You're going to get jazz. You know, you know. Give me a quarter.

But do a trick when it first mother.

Fuck. You know, that was my life. They hit you in three pigeons fall out of your sleeve. Absolutely. That's so fantastic.

No, you were. I mean, we're going to just jump around because that's the kind of interview this is going to be. We're going to jump all over the place. But this is going to be a jazz interview. Jazz interview.

And everyone loves jazz. You. You go in. You go in with the things that you wanted to do. And you, you did them right away, completely yourself.

And it was a phenomenon. I mean, the show was. It's all anybody was talking about. It was a big hit. And one of the things that people forget because TV is so different now.

It's not even called TV anymore. It's just there's entertainment everywhere on all these different platforms. Back then, it was next to impossible to crack into one of these shows. You do. And you say, I'm going to do this completely my way.

And I remember the guests. I mean, these were not people you ever saw on television. And these are the people you saw that they weren't making me turn down. Like I was having ice cube stopped by the studio and say, Yo, dog, look at this and tell me what you think.

You know, and it would be him performing with NAWA. And I'm like, I can't even say the title. Yeah. Now, Niggas would attitude and I went to Parama. I tried to get them on.

So there were people you didn't see because early on because you couldn't get him on. Well, yeah, Parama wouldn't let me put in WA on. Eventually, I brought ice cube on and drew on and easy on separately after they broke up. But in the beginning, Parama would just say, no. After the show took off, I would push harder.

Yeah. And say, like, I went through the same type of meeting when ice tea came up with cop killer. And I'm like, I want to do ice tea. And I want to let him explain this whole thing he's going through right now with this album. And they said, no, and I said, no, we're doing this one.

I stopped letting them say no. Yeah. Because I had a little bit of power. And I'm like, I got to do this. Otherwise, I'm nerve.

Yeah, you got to get the power first, you know, and you got the power.

You start to exercise it. And I'm just going to, because this blows my mind. I was, again, I love the book. But your guests, Muhammad Ali, Jesse Jackson, Miles Davis, Michael Jackson,

You got Mike Tyson, Whitney Houston, Maya Angelou.

And she was so nervous. Is this true that you guys? Oh, yeah, she wanted backstage. She needed something to calm her down. Yeah.

“And I think we were at this point where our green room wasn't supposed to have liquor in it”

because something had gone wrong. And she knocked them. My door. And she says, "Hi, baby. Can we talk for a minute?"

And she goes inside. And I offer her a drink of what I have. Because somebody, a talent coordinator, had told me, you know, Maya wants just a little tidy to relax her. And it became a tradition whenever she came on the show.

You know, me and Maya went in and had a little sip together. It relaxes. I'm just curious. It was a brown liquor.

I don't remember exactly what it was.

But it was probably that stuff in the purple bag. You know, it was that brown stuff. I think that's what I had. I did that. But it was cough syrup.

And it wasn't Maya Angelou. It was Al Roker. Oh, wow. That's the part. Yeah, that was work.

And a different thing, you know. But you had these people on. You had this music on. And there was, I mean, I remember it nights where it was an event. I remember I could be making this up.

But I seem to remember a night where like Eddie Murphy's there. And you know, Eddie's the biggest thing on the planet.

“And you know, I think Michael Jackson comes by.”

You know, back in the day, I used to host the MTV Awards. Yeah. And like, I think I did it for three years. But one of those years, Michael couldn't come to the MTV Awards. So we made a deal that the award he was getting would be given to him on my show the next week.

And there was also an award in the film world for Eddie. So I'm like, let's see if Eddie will come. And Michael and Eddie can kiss each other's ass. You know, no. Michael and Eddie.

Okay. I tune in for that. Michael and Eddie can each give the other an award. And that's how we did it. Michael said, Eddie, this is best comedian in the history of Michael gave him.

And Eddie is like, yeah, oh, it's Michael. So this one's for you. And Eddie gave him and it was the best segment ever. Yeah.

So it's basically what me and me and Eddie are out there.

And Michael walks out. Yeah. We knew he was walking out. Yeah. And it fucked us up.

Yeah. It's like nobody. Michael. That was an event. People talk about everyone's trying to make events happen on TV.

“And I think they're fewer and farther between.”

They don't happen that often. But you come along at this moment. This is just unprecedented. This is unprecedented. And you brought all these entertainers that meant so much to you.

And you bring them. You're you're so true to what you want to do that you start getting it from both sides. You get white people saying or white, you know, it's a network note. I think sometimes they wouldn't. It's not a network note.

I shouldn't say that. The show is too black. The show is too black. Okay. Was that a thing that was actually said to you?

Oh, yeah. I mean, talking meetings, nobody could text back then because it hadn't been invented. Yeah. And they would not only tell me you're too black, but they would give me examples of what I shouldn't do. And, you know, you mentioned one earlier.

Stop calling everybody brother. But that wasn't interesting meeting because I went over to an executive's office. And they said, I was listening to the show because executives would have monitors on. Yeah. Watching everything.

And the executive said to me, stop calling your guests brother. And I said, what do you mean? It's a tonight. I'm listening to the show and all I hear is brother this and brother that. And that sounds like it's not inclusive to your larger audience.

And what they didn't do was pay attention to who I was talking to. Because I was calling Mark Wahlberg brother. Yeah. He was with Marky Mark in the funky bunch. Yeah.

And so what they learned with me is, yeah, there are a lot of things I'm doing that maybe need to be ironed out. Or changed. But pay attention because I call everybody brother and some of this stuff. If Mr. Rogers was on, you'd say, hey, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, Mr. Rogers had identical jackets that we picked out for the show one night. And I'm like, just brother Rogers. Yeah. But you know, that is, you get that, okay.

Which people would rub and then one more thing. Yeah. You're the hardest part. It's the hardest part is when black people come at you. They come at you with bars and spit.

Like when ice cube was mad.

You know, it released a track.

You know, people ask me, yeah. You know, when you know I'm thinking. When you make strife saying, man, it's not as much a problem. Yeah. Yeah.

But ice cube, that motherfucker.

“Well, that's what I wanted to talk about.”

People ask me if I like to buy Centennial. I hate it. And I hate our Centennial. I hate it. And I hate our Centennial.

It was so sit like that. It wasn't as best rhyme. But you know, that's, that's what I'm making is that you.

Yes, you're getting, you're getting these notes from white people saying it's too black.

But you're also at the same time getting flack from the black community saying it's not black enough. And you get some flack from, you know, Spike Lee. Mm-hmm. And you get some flack from some other people who say this hasn't gone far enough. And why is it as in her own before me?

Excuse me. Why is this the black show, right? Yeah. I thought things would be different.

“Why the fuck is it as in the coming out before me on the black show too?”

Yeah. You know, and it was rough. It was because I have a flaw in my personality. I love to please. I love to make people have what you're talking about.

I want them to go home. You know, I want Mike Epps to go home happy. Yeah. You know, and sometimes you just can't make everyone happy. But I try it for six years.

Well, this is the thing is that you're in this bind because you can't make everybody happy. You just can't all the time. Spike Lee was angry because I simply couldn't give him the day he wanted. You know, sometimes when you're rolling out a movie, if the movie opens tonight back in the day, you open tonight in the theaters, Spike wants to be that Friday night guest also knowing, you know,

and this is just an example. Also knowing, say for instance, that more people might watch on a Friday because they don't have to work on a Saturday. And sometimes numbers on a Friday are better than Monday. But he had a specific day he wanted.

And we were already booked with our first guest out.

And he got angry at me. Yeah. And, you know, and that stuff happens every day. Back then, you build up a thick chaos on your heart because you get attacked every day by somebody for something. Okay.

That I don't believe because you strike me.

“I think there are some similarities between us.”

I think that I try to pretend things don't hurt me, but they do. And I know you and everyone knows you to be a really decent, good person. And I think that it did really bother you probably to get it hurts because you're so trying to make everyone happy with this show. Yeah. And then suddenly you're thinking, okay.

I accept that there's a white executive who doesn't understand. But I would definitely say, why would you say if you say, I want to do two numbers with body brown. And they'll say, the model. And you realize, yo struggle is, you know, straight up. It's going to be hard, you know.

Going back to your origin story. Your dad was a preacher and very charismatic, performing preacher. And you're looking up admiring this guy. And you talk in your book about how it meant the world to you to try and please him. And that you're still trying to do that to this day.

You go through. And I know what you're talking about because my parents are very loving. I wanted attention from them. I wanted to make them laugh. And that is kind of the chemistry behind everything you do.

And here I am, all these years later in their gone, but I do think they're still part of me. It's trying to win them over. And so there's so many things in your book. I go, like, oh my god, I understand my dad's a microbiologist. He's not a preacher.

Yeah. But it's the same thing. Did he want you in the family business? Uh, he kind of think he wanted all of us to get into one of us to be a doctor. And then he quickly saw his idiots.

I don't want them operating on me. And so he was happy that I got into comedy. But I mean, but don't you want me to be a preacher so bad, Conan, that he would bring me, holding my hand into the pulpit on a Sunday morning and sit me down next to his guest pastor or assistant pastor.

And so my life was watching the congregation and watching my dad from the backs of matter of fact in coming to America. When I told John land is about. The director of the director of coming to America, he created these shots. When the preacher's on stage at the black awareness page, he created these shots

that were really me describing to him my experience watching people.

That's what I saw. I saw that lady.

I saw my dad from the back.

Yeah.

“Well, you know, I was again, we're jumping around, but I love this.”

Because I have it in my notes, like coming to America. This is how my stand up is. Yeah. It's just like Miles Davis, I'm kind of fitting all of something. Yeah.

You know, it's like, but this I like. I don't get it. Yeah. He leaves a stage and then he needs back in. I'm sorry.

But no, but this is, this is how it's going to be. Because this is the best way. But I have coming to America like 75 exclamation points because, yeah, it is great in that film. You are so good in that movie.

That has such a great performance. And I remember when you were the preacher. And I didn't know that your dad was a preacher. And then I read in the in your book that, of course, you could play that part. But I think you channeled your dad.

And my mother was a male barber. So I was able to channel that too. I mean. And I also didn't know that you made coming to America. Well, you're waiting to kind of hear about whether you're not going to get your own show.

Yeah. And there's this downtime. And that's when you and Eddie, who were friends at the time. And he brought you in and the suddenly you're making this movie together. That's some project before you start your big show.

Yeah. And they turned coming to America down. We went and pitched it at Paramount. And they said, no, thank you. And we were like, give us some notes.

What should we do? And they were like, we're not sure.

But, you know, it's a fish out of water we've seen this a billion times.

And coming to America at that time didn't have the barber shop. It didn't have the preacher. It didn't have Eddie as the old Jewish man. Yeah.

“It was a guy named Net Tan and I believe who was running Paramount,”

who eventually gave us notes. And he said, everybody wants to see Eddie do characters again. Everybody misses SNL. Yeah. How about if the people you meet in America are played by Eddie?

And I was sitting there saying, Can I get you all a drink? [LAUGHTER] And it's Eddie that said, I saw our SNL do stand up on this HBO thing. And he does this thing about Jesse Jackson.

I know he can do a great preacher. And we can come up with some barbers. And Eddie came up with the specific characters. And I just sat there shaking. Because I'm like, I got to do characters with Eddie Murphy.

That's like, since you know, check Jordan. [LAUGHTER] You know, locked that motherfucker down. [LAUGHTER] Yeah.

[LAUGHTER] Wow. So I was a nervous, right, sure. Go in into coming to work. You're great.

You're great, Net. Thank you. Really holds up. And this I need to explain to people. Because I don't know if people understand that trajectory.

Because it's really fascinating. There's a whole part of your book. I think people should read. Because it's really lovely about you as a kid. You take up magic.

We also have something else in common. I was a different kid as you can imagine. And you were a different kid. We both had names. No one had ever heard before.

Yes. So you're our scenario. I'm cone. And I don't know if you have the same thing. But my dad didn't even know about cone on the barberion.

That wasn't a big thing when I was growing up. It wasn't like a known thing yet. So people used to get really hung up on my name. And I'm a strange kid with like a giant pompador. And they're like, what is it?

What is this cone in guy? And I swear to God, sometimes if they give you a name like that, it makes you become something interesting. It's a weird theory. But you're a one name celebrity even when you're a kid.

You're our scenario. Yeah.

“And people must have thought, what the hell isn't our scenario?”

Yes. Yes. Because there aren't our scenarios. Yeah. Anywhere.

You know, there never has been in our,

We've done a national man hunt for an our scenario. I did something like that like a few years ago. And they're like 18 of them now worldwide. And a lot of them were born around. But the talk show was on.

But back in the day, you were in Cleveland. And you at the basketball court in the ghetto of Cleveland. And people are picking up. And it's like, I got Lee Roy. Let me have no neck.

[LAUGHTER] Our scenario. [LAUGHTER] And you're there in our magicians hat. Yeah.

Yeah. Our scenario's got in a magicians hat. Yes. And you're like, well, look what I can do. Like, I'm like the smell of bugwood.

It can't. [LAUGHTER] And people need to know. You were really serious about, you were really serious about the magic. And you took the magic pretty far.

You were good. And you were getting up on stage. You were getting a TV show. Getting on TV shows as a magician.

You were a real deal. They flew me to New York. The first time I ever left Cleveland. They flew me to New York to do a PBS show. And I did my vanishing candelabra,

which was something I'd never done on television.

So you're that guy. And then at one point, someone sees you do your act. And you, of course, funny is in your bones. You were being funny in between. Yeah. The tricks you were doing are the illusions you were doing.

And someone said, more of that. But the comment. Yeah. You should be doing the comment. I heard my feelings though.

Because back then, my soul is, you know, I'd had dinner with Harry Blackstone Jr. Yeah. You know, my soul was that of a magician. And when this guy Hank Morehouse in Yip Selanti,

“Michigan, says to me, you should get rid of the magic.”

And do you know what a stand-up comic is? You should be a stand-up comic. Because I would take tricks. Like I had a trick where you tied two handkerchiefs together. We call him silks.

And I put the handkerchiefs in your shirt. And then I'd take another silk, which by the way, this became what Ali was doing in front of the playground. When you saw him, you saw him, yeah.

So I do this. This silk disappears. Mm-hmm. And it appears between the two that are put down here in your shirt. But what I would do is I would do the trick twice.

The first time I get a lady from the audience,

I put the two silks in her shirt. And when I first pulled them out, her broth comes out in between. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. To the silks.

And I'm 10. Yeah. You're 10 now. You're 10. Yeah.

Wow. That's hard to do. And now you can't even touch a ladies. Oh, no. So this guy was saying, you're making adults laugh.

“And I remember, and then I do the trick again.”

I make it happen correctly. Right. The silk appears in the middle. And I remember Tony Lipford, a little girl, who lived in my building,

when I went to New York to do this, and went to Colin Michigan to do the convention. She would let me use this training broth. And it was important because my mother's broth. And all my aunt's broth.

They were like parachutes. They were huge. You know. You know. I have.

You know. My, my, my aunt, Mabel. Yeah.

She never had a bank account.

My aunt, Mabel. She used to have $400. And a cleanest at church. And for the broth, $30,000 in quarters. Yes.

Go for it. And two people died from suffocation.

“But Tony Lipford loaned me a little training broth.”

Because we were the same age. And it was one of those bras that almost has no cup. Yep. And that was easy to use and make that trick work. So someone sees you.

You start doing stand up. And this is when your life takes a major chance. Because you're doing stand up. You're getting really good. By the way, in Cleveland, while I'm watching TV one night.

My grandmother's in Cleveland at the house I'm living in. I'm in Kent at Kent State. I'm watching TV. And I see a street. You know, how they interrupt the news.

I see a street. And it's on fire. And these houses are burning. And one of them looks like a house at the corner of my grandmother's street. And I realize the whole neighborhood's going up.

That's my grandmother's house. I jump in a car and I drive from Kent State to Cleveland. My house burns down that night. And that's where all the magic equipment was. So I was forced to get funny and get more bras.

Yeah. But it's like divine intervention again. It's like, OK, I'm going to be a stand up. And you start to get to the point where you could get potentially a booking on the show. It's tonight's show with Johnny Carson, but their bookers like, yeah, you're not a Johnny guy.

You're not a Johnny guy, which, you know, is now sounds ridiculous and insane. But I get it. The show had a distinct personality. You know, you have a stationality. I wasn't surprised when I saw Dion Cole on your show.

You have a stationality that's very specific to your brand of humor and your demographic and everything. And, and for me, I got that Bobby Kelton and August Hamilton. Those were Johnny guys. Those were the gatekeepers. Yeah.

Tonight's show. Yeah. And Johnny liked them. Tom Driesen had done, you know, 4,000 tonight show appearances. Right.

And I waited for Joan to go on one Monday. And I knew I was probably more a Joan guy. And I got on the first time with Joan. And then got to sit with Johnny when I come to America. Coming to America.

So to instruct everyone who doesn't know, this interesting thing happens. Joan reverses a frequent guest on Johnny Carson's tonight show.

She does it causes a major feud with Carson because he does not like that.

She's on Fox. She does a show. It implodes. It doesn't work. It comes apart.

But you had gone on that show. Yeah. As a standup. And I understand you had been successful on that show. And then when Joan leaves, they need someone to kind of

this thing still on. And they got 11 weeks with just a set. Yeah. Joan leaves. She's not coming back.

“I think Edgar her husband killed himself.”

He did. Yeah. So so that ship had sailed. And they went through a lot of guys letting them have the show for one night. From Wally Cox to Malcolm Jamal Warner to Susanne Summers.

Because I remember Susanne Summers did very good. And in the end, they were choosing between me and Susanne Summers. Wow. Wow. That's so.

So you come on. And then they more or less say, Hey, our scenario. You're really good at this. Why don't you just. This show is ending.

But why don't you take over till it ends.

Now, here's the thing you don't know.

That show ends. And there's kind of a feeling like, wow, that our scenario guy did really well. He's going to come back. Okay. And here's the thing you don't know.

There's a replacement show after Joan show. Willton North. The willton North. I do know this now. Okay.

So the willton North report gets announced. This guy is going to put on a show. There's no host for it yet. But they get some writers before they even have the host, which is kind of unheard of. And I get this call.

And my writing partner and I go in and we get off for jobs to write. We need work. We haven't worked in a bit. So we say sure. We'll do it.

We don't know what this is. Who are the hosts? They said, we don't know yet. We're going to find them. And so one of the first meetings we had.

You were still. I think finishing up your show. And we were just having an early introductory meeting. And I heard there. And I go, it's reading.

Eat around here.

“And they go, you have to snack room in there.”

I go into the snack room. And I see you. And you were at the refrigerator. Getting something. And I said, oh, I knew who you were.

I'm like, that's. That's the guy who's been, you know, you weren't holding down the fort. You're holding down the fort. And I was like, oh, hey. And you were so nice to me.

You were like, oh, hey. You were very gracious. And you were like, I'm so glad this story goes like that. No, no. Excuse me, white me.

Well, you did call me white me. But you were very nice about it. You were like, you are really white me. I'm like, yeah. And then, um, no, but I remember you being really nice.

And I went back to the room and I went, oh, hi. Because I was, you know, super young. And there's a guy who's been on TV for a couple of weeks. And I knew I recognized you. And that's like a big deal.

So I was like, oh, I just saw there. You know, the guy is at our Saniel. Yeah. You were just new. So we, we work on that show.

We're way behind the scenes. It implodes. Because they hired two DJs from Northwest, right? San Diego. There were two DJs from San Diego.

And they hired them. And it wasn't their fault. It was just a weird. You got to start with the person. You got to start with the person.

You can't talk show. Uh, you all know because you work for Conan. But, but that guy is the engine. You can take a body of a car. We've seen this done.

I saw Jay Leno. Um, I don't apologize. I, you know, I saw your problem. That's not my problem. I, I, I, I noticed guy who's a mechanic.

Yeah. And uh, he put, he put a helicopter engine in a truck. Sure. Yeah. It ran different than the Chevy.

Yeah. Yeah. The motor. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What are you doing?

Chevy. Chevy. Why are you doing that? You don't know. It's just simple.

I'm going to cut the water money and wait for a lot of time. So I thought of maybe I'm doing it. Anyway, whatever this guy's name is, he's, he's having fun. That's important thing. This is what I was afraid of.

This is whatever. Oh, my. But, um, so this is, this could be my thing. This could be my favorite episode over. Seriously.

And I have this man to thank. Um, but, but, but you know. So I met you. Then they decide. Okay.

Uh, this, this. Arsenio kid has something. And Paramount, you get the syndication deal. And your show starts.

“And here's the thing people have to remember.”

I remember this very well. Your show started. I think at the very beginning of 1989, like early January. Yeah, I wanted to get away from the September. Uh, that's when they make every.

That's when they make everyone. That's when I had to go September 13th. It's when a lot of shows start. You, you show up.

It's like second week of 1989.

And it is a smash immediately. And here's the thing. It's really interesting. You talk in your book about, um, your ratings were huge.

But what, what you had is you had 35 and younger. Your demo was through the roof. And what's interesting is that was good news for you then. But what you couldn't possibly know is today to have a demo like that. That means you're on the air for the rest of your life.

The demo is more important than how many people are watching you. And I think you existed. It's for advertising. For advertising because, you know, now, I mean, for chunk of my career, it's the demo that saved me.

It wasn't that everyone in America wanted to see me. It's the young people who buy things wanted to see me.

“And that's what made a difference and saved me.”

I think that you were in a much more difficult time where you had a great demo. And then you're also expected to get everyone in the country watching you, which is complicated. Do you know what I mean?

I mean, first of all, I just think that that was a challenge you had that no show can pull off today.

No show can do that. You know, even even when you deal with the world of comedy, I had an audience that was loving when I bring on a new guy like Chris Tucker. But if you like Chris Tucker, you probably don't like Argus Hamilton.

You know, it's a different thing. Yeah. And for me to be a different show every night is very complicated. Yeah. It was tough to balance it. And they were telling me, especially around the time when Johnny was about to leave.

They were telling me, if you do the right show, you can inherit the King's kingdom. Right. They'll come here when Johnny leaves. Because we don't even know what they're going to do and who they're going to replace him with.

That was all a mystery. So they were really pressing me at that time, because like I would get a call from Michael Bivins of New Edition. Yeah. And Michael Bivins would say, I just signed four guys out of Philly called Boys to Men. And I'm not finished with the album yet.

But I would love to tell them that when we finished they're coming on your show and it'll inspire them and everything. I said, even better than that. Bring them next week.

And I've always wanted to put the temptations on because I used to tour with them and they were my heroes.

Yeah. I want to put Boys to Men and the temptations all together. Like I want to have 40 niggas doing choreography. You know. And so let's have the temptations and Boys to Men.

And it's a beautiful line of men performing the old, the new. Yeah. Boys to Men's Idol, my idols and stuff like that. Paramount was like, you're not going to get Johnny's audience doing this. Right.

And so they wanted me to change my persona.

“I remember one time them saying, could you get rid of the earrings?”

You know. But that happened. And by the way, that's not a black thing. I've seen producers tell how we Mandela take off his earrings. You know, or make them smaller, whatever that.

That's just what they think the culture in America wants to see. Yeah. And I would have like a nice jacket. But my jeans would be ripped. Yeah.

And they were like, there's no reason to have your jeans ripped. You know, one time I carved a dearest stripes in the side of my head. Because that was happening then. Not for y'all. But.

[ Laughter ] Yeah. Yeah. David, what did you have? Car gave the side of your head.

Yeah. Yeah. The lyrics from Frozen. Like that. Hey, I'm just like, let it go.

Let it go around his head. That's hilarious. It's really cool. He was in a different culture than the Midwest. But you can imagine when you do something like that,

they're like, yo. [ Laughter ] But here's the thing.

“They forget that this idea that you have to get everybody into the tent is incorrect.”

If you want to be ruthlessly yourself, which you understood,

and it's been always been my credo.

You got to do your thing, and if it doesn't work for you, or if it doesn't feel authentic, it's your job not to do it. But you, you were doing television at a time when you're at the forefront of a lot of this. You know, I mean, there are a lot of people who the first time they saw, I mean, a black person with their own show,

and it's a late night show, which is, it's just unheard of. So you're the first person doing that, and the first is hard. You know what I mean? It's, and you must have so many people that have come up to you over the years, and he said, "No, I grew up watching you, and I saw whatever my values,

what I like reflected back at me." And that's massive. Yeah, I get enough love in the streets that I never have to work again, man. And you forget, you forget. Somebody reminded me in Vegas, I go to see Bruno Mars,

and the due backstage says, "I remember when you put him on." And I forget things like that. Bruno Mars was like an embryo. You know, I mean, they were, he was born on your shop.

Oh, he was performing and slipped in some placenta. When he did this one, you know what? He made it look cool. Oh, yeah. He slid all the way across the stairs.

That Bruno. But, you know, his, his dad, and the people around him were kind of

“secretive about his actual age, but I think he was like,”

five, you know. And I still have people come up and say, "Dude."

And the cool thing, also, is they're not always black.

Sometimes it's a white dude who's a lawyer who says, "We used to stay in and watch you then we'd go out on a Saturday night back east." Well, here's the thing you knew. What I could tell is something authentic and new is happening here. And that has nothing to do with race.

That has nothing to do with. This is just someone who knows what he wants to do and has a vision and is expressing himself and bringing all these different people in. And it wasn't just, I mean, you have people like Prince. You have all these incredible performers come on

who weren't doing other shows. But Madonna is coming up. People that don't do these shows are showing up on Robert DeBero. Robert DeBero is, that was his first talk show. Yeah, I knew I could get him to know, because I had a lot of black women on the staff.

You know? Well, yeah, I said, if he's going to do a show, he's going to be a show.

I got a lot of sisters named Tukey on the staff.

You know? And at the same time, and at the same time, while I look Tukey. Hey, we got anywhere's my Tukey. Where's Tukey? At the same time, while this is going on, and I'm experiencing this life, I'm leaving the lot, you know?

And there are other people in the lot like Ted Danson doing cheers or Mary Hart doing entertainment tonight. I leave the lot one night and the guards ask if they can search my car because some instruments from my show stage 29, the posse, the band, some instruments have been stolen.

And we're supposed to search all the cars leaving the lot tonight. And of course, that's when I become black. You know, that's when I get to black, because you're the host. Yeah, and the most successful show. Right.

And don't get me wrong. I'm sure my Douglas steals, you know, from time to time when he was here on earth. But it was just, it sometimes you're going through stuff. And that's the straw that broke the camel's back in a moment. And I did things that I should not have done.

But I was like, you're not searching my mother fucking car. Did you search Ted Danson's car? You're not searching my fucking car. I'm a part owner in my show. And the instruments that were stolen, that's money out of my pocket.

Motherfucker, I don't steal my own shit and they give me that shit free. If you want a E3 or a Clavinet, you know how many base guitars I have at home. Fingers just were sending you another jazz and a precision in the man. You know, so it was just absurd. And me and this guy that I was rolling with, we break the gate.

You know, the gate to goes up and down. We broke that motherfuck off. Those are not very strong. Those gates.

“I think everyone's on your side on this gate.”

It's a great thing. But yes, so I got in a lot of trouble for the problems at the gate that night. But I was just, you got it. That's insane. Yeah.

You know, but Lucy saw any call me the next day. And she's like, come on. Let's talk about what happened at the gate last night. But I was I was pissed and I didn't handle it right. And if a young comic asked me for advice, I'd say,

you know, don't get into it with the guards and don't break the gate off. If they say you can't leave, you know, but I was like, you go home. You're not going to have to. It's not going to happen. You're not searching my car.

And you're not keeping me here.

I thought it was amazing.

Doing your show and the LA riots start. Hmm. And I lived in LA then. And it was, that was, I think I was working on the Simpsons, when the LA riot.

I was. We're working on the Simpsons. I'm around the second floor. We're working on the Simpsons. And we can tell things are,

it's just the, you know, the airs the office. We were on the Foxlot. Good. You could look. You could go on the roof of some of those buildings and see smoke.

“That's what happened is we started to hear.”

We were heard about the verdict. We hear that that there's violence breaking out. And of course, whoever was running the show at the time was like, well, we got to get this, you know, what does Marge say next?

We don't know what Marge says next. And some of us are thinking, can we just go check the TV? Hold on. But it's just does home or speak here?

I think it should be Marge's line. And then someone went out to get,

on the balcony and saw just all this smoke. Yeah. And at some point, we're all watching TV.

“And we see Reginald denny dragged out of a concrete truck.”

He's he's dry out of a truck and hit her over there. And there blocks. Cinder blocks. Yeah. And it was, you know,

it. So I jumped to my car at Simpsons. And I drive back to my apartment. The guy said, let's, let's figure out that Marge line later. Everybody go home.

And so it was a very strange upsetting, obviously at time. And you were advised, well, you can't do your show.

Yeah. And you said, I'm doing my show. And you had very strong reasons for why you thought it's important for me to do my show right now,

which were. But yet, by the way, as an EP, I understood where they were coming from. They were talking about insurance. They were talking about somebody getting hurt.

Yep. You know, I got what they were saying. But I also got that this ain't the time to shut up and dribble. Yep.

You know, this is a time for an entertainer to use his vehicle in some way. I understood that. At that point, I thought,

maybe this is the night. I book somebody like Faracan. I got a book somebody that can reach the brothers out in the street.

“Because I think we're about to tear up our own neighborhoods.”

Yeah. And obviously, everybody thought that would distract from what I'm trying to do and what's going on. And it would be bigger than the riots.

And I said, Oh, yeah. No, I get that. And so we got Tom Bradley, Sean Pinn Pop by, Send Badged.

Everybody.

And then I invited 200 members of first day in me,

my church. So I put my church. They signed waivers. And everybody sat in the audience. And we did this show that night.

Yeah. Which is a billion things going with my mic. I also remember Tom Bradley. Sean Pinn brought a guy with him. And Paramount sent a lawyer out to say,

"The guy with Sean Pinn, we can't talk to him." So don't go over there. And to this day, I was okay.

I had so much on my mind. To this day, I wonder who that guy was. And it's also interesting because from ice cube to minister Faracan,

I look now at what you guys are going through. And being told what to do, what not to do, who to book with co-bear and who not to book. And Trump wasn't in my mix.

But it's funny,

because I never thought to publicly talk about me being censored.

Yeah. Or publicly talk about them, not letting me have someone that I want to have, because politically that person is wrong or whatever. I also remember when I booked Bill Clinton,

I grew up thinking that you always bring the other side. And I thought that was a law. But I guess it's changed or it's vacillated a little bit these days. But I remember putting it off or out to Mr. Bush. Yeah.

You know, because I wanted both of them, but he can't play saxophone. He can't play saxophone. I mean, talking about another thing. That's the in history books.

Bill Clinton with the Ray Bands playing saxophone. Ray Bands with my tie. Yeah. On your show, that hadn't happened.

You know, I mean, all these things were happening that were resonating, you know, throughout the country. I mean, that's a moment that's going to endure. And the thing I'm thinking about is you're instinct about have the other side.

“I think you had this idea of let's open up the house”

and invite everybody in and see what happens. And if you lead with goodwill,

and that's the, because you're always about goodwill,

if we lead with goodwill and we get everyone together in a room, I don't have to agree with everybody, but this is going to be interesting. And to me, that's, that's a nice sentiment. And sometimes now, people get so locked into being angry about everything

that we're not inviting the other people in. Yeah. I remember having the first openly gay stand-up comic on a young lady named Leah Delaria who went on to do oranges and new blacks. She's great.

She's terrific. She walked out and she's like, "I'm a big bike." And I'm like, "Whoa, I know Paramount will be over later." And so it talked to me. They're no longer worried about the gay.

Yeah. What the hell was that? Yeah, it was, so it was tough. It was a tough time because they didn't want any of that. They wanted me to just cool-out do and wait for Johnny Delay.

Now, one of the things that I didn't know is that you decide, you do this for six years, which is a real stretch. These are hard shows and you're doing it as I said. You're carrying a heavier backpack than certainly than myself and other hosts. Or a different backpack.

Because I don't, I also don't like to put myself in a position where,

Oh, that's fair. I'll give you that, that's fair, but I reading your story and seeing what it is that you were dealing with. I have crazy respect. I'll put it that way.

Crazy respect for what you did and that you always kept it.

Like I say, the emphasis on goodwill and let's try it. You know, that spirit of let's get boys to men and attemptations and see what happens. That's a beautiful thing. What I didn't know is that you start to burn out.

“You're like, "I think I've got to stop doing this.”

I've got to stop doing this. I need to put this down." And you go to Paramount and you write them a letter and you say, "I'm going to leave and they say, "Okay, well, don't say anything about it yet." And they sit on the letter and they tell you, "You can't tell anybody." So you keep doing your job but you have every intention of leaving

and then they announce that they're ending it. Which is, I don't have another word. It's just a shitty thing to do. Yeah.

I don't think they realize how important truth is in the long run.

You know, in that moment, it's like, "Ah, we beat you." But they don't realize I'm a human being. I'm a person with a legacy and I want to inspire people to know not just black kids, but to know dream and you can win. And I want my story to reflect the truth of what that journey was like.

And what that ending was like, I've seen two books. My son is involved with a bookstore in Lamarke Park. And, you know, I raised him right. He could have done it in Beverly Hills but he's doing it in Lamarke Park. And he's doing a lot of business over there.

And one day he shows me two books that are about me. And it's one of the times when I said, "I got to write a book. I just didn't know how to go about it." Because I realize, I don't even know these books exist or who these authors are. We tried to search one of the authors and it's not even a real name.

It was written under an alias. And I'm like, "She didn't even want me to know she was telling this stuff about me." So I really wanted to leave a book on this earth that I wrote about me.

“And it's also, it's really important people to know that you were like,”

"This now needs to end and I want to end it and go out on my note." And then I put the letter in the book. Now it's there. And remember when you used to fax things, and it was on that kind of paper that like a cocaine dollar bill rolls back up. Oh, do I know?

Do I know? It was that kind of horrible paper and it doesn't last well. And that creates a misconception that, "Oh, because, you know, you know, very publicly disagreed with a lot of things that Farakhan was saying, and rightfully so, but you wanted to confront him about those things and talk about it.

And of course, that got everybody freaked out. And so there was this perception that Paramount was saying, "Because you talked to Farakhan, your show has to go when you had sent them a letter long before saying, "I'm ending this show." And they told me they said, "Let's get together with the publics.

Let's decide the way to position this and how to send out it." Back then, we, it's not a press release, you know? Now you, you do snapchat so they don't have it next month. You know? I didn't quit what the fuck you're talking about.

Show me, show me where I quit. But they kind of fucked me up. It was like a relationship that... That's how these things tend to end. I have to tell you these things. Really? These talk shows.

Yeah, they tend to end that way. We've kind of been through yours with the net. But yeah, you go through this stuff. And then they have more power and more ink than us. So they're always good.

“But then you realize that, you know, I think like you,”

I've always tried to take the attitude.

I was, I was really lucky. Just very lucky person. That easily could not have come my way. And I think I'm a hard worker. And I think I have some ability. But mostly it's a lot of luck.

And it's so nice to hear that. Yeah, and it's not just talent. I saw Prince get booed when he first hit. I think he was opening for the Rolling Stones. Nobody had more talent than Prince.

But it's luck and timing that goes with that talent. I know a lot of talented people, funny people. Great musicians. That's what doesn't. Yeah.

And trust me, I've made it a life's mission to say you can maximize your chance of getting luck by working really hard. And by being a pleasant person to work with. But this book also makes it clear that you were working so hard. And you had all these different arcs before we got to know you.

It may be wanted to cancel this book.

You know what I love too. It's in the book.

“They're time that you're outside a comedy club.”

And you don't know Eddie Murphy that long. You guys are just in you're like hanging up by a parking meter outside the comedy club. He had met him at all. He had met him at all. Yeah.

And he's killing Wayne's. He in the keen and Wayne's is going to introduce us. Yeah. And you're chatting with him. And you confessed to him that you were.

He spent a lot of your career as a magician. And then he confesses to you that he was a ventriloquist. Yes. And here's another crazy part. I talk about this in the book.

There's a night. And you'll relate to this. This is just for me. Yeah.

You ever asked the guest that question.

And they've decided that what their pre-interview. Had in it or whatever their publicist told you. They don't want to talk about that. Yep. I say to my friend.

Because I know this is a great area. Yeah. And I know that he, you know, at home.

“I know we've smoked a joint at some point.”

And he's done sin your winces. Yeah. You know. I know I've seen this. Yeah.

Sure he has. Yeah. And that's it. It's funny. And this guy could afford a dummy.

Yeah. But he's dead. A little lipstick right here. Yeah. And so I say to him.

And I know I can lay back because he, this is going to be two minutes. And I say, so you were a ventriloquist. And that motherfucker says, no. Ah. Yeah.

Yeah. But you were a magician. Yeah. Yeah. And we go from there.

And I couldn't believe he begged me like that. But he didn't want to do that shit. Yeah. Yeah. You know, he didn't want to talk about me.

But recently, I've kind of been exonerated from the house of lies. Because because he did a documentary. Yes, that's right. Yeah. And in the documentary, my fucking decides it's out of truth.

You know. But they're law on TV in that moment. He left you hanging. Oh man. And you have no idea.

I didn't feel exonerated until recently when he's on his little. uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh

- Yeah, my wallet puts me in another room. - Let me go, let me go. (audience laughing) - Oh, that was a better episode than this episode. - No, this is fun.

- No, you've had some fun stuff. - Yeah, yeah, you have guessed what. - I don't know, I don't know, this is just insane. We gotta, I mean, we gotta do a part two sometime. We really do.

- Yes, I totally have been in here. - I don't know. - I don't know. - I don't know, five minutes. - This is much more than we do.

(audience laughing) - I don't understand that would go like that. - Yeah, but you know what? - We gotta, we just gotta do a part two sometime. I just wanna make sure, you gotta get this book,

Arsenio, a memoir because it's beautiful,

it's really funny, it's an incredible story.

- And even if they don't read, get the book. Get the book, 'cause you can, you can, if you've got a table that's uneven in your home. - Yeah, yes, yeah. - Or the microwave, you want it to sit on something,

sturdy, or I hate to quote other comics because sometimes that can be perceived as stealing. But I love Chris Rocks take on books. You know, it's like, "Had your money, "crest it last, but it's a nigga gon' look."

(audience laughing) You know, so get the book and put some in it to hack. (audience laughing) It is, I was so excited today for you to come in. And I'll tell you this too.

I've so many friends, so many writers of mine, people I know who are standups. They've worked with you, they've bumped into you. Universally, everybody says you are a unfailingly nice person. You're a really good person, and that means the world to me.

- Except that guard at Paramah. - Oh, come on, I think I'm on your side on that one. I try to treat people, the way God would want me to treat people. I don't know that sounds corny, but no, it doesn't, it doesn't.

“- Okay, you know, but that's why I'm from.”

That's who I am, and I try. I've fallen short in my life many times, but when I came up, nobody says good things about Cosby anymore. But I remember a time when you could pop by Cosby's dressing room in Atlantic City or in Vegas,

He would sit and talk to you for four hours, give you advice.

We'd have conversations.

“Richard Prior, I remember one time I opened for”

Chaka Khan at the Universal Ampitheater, and I was so proud to tell Richard, I got a gig, and we're at the Comedy Store, Richard's working on his special, and he says, "I like to come to that." And I say, really, I can leave your tickets,

and I leave him and his guy, Roshan, his body man, to tickets, and Richard comes early and watches me. And then when Chaka comes, I'll say, "Once you get started, Richard gets up and comes in back." And I know he loved Chaka Khan on a couple levels.

You know, not just music, but he's a Renaissance man. He's a Renaissance man, he's an acoxman, and he loved him some Chaka, but he came backstage to tell me, "You did a great job. That was wonderful." And that's the greatest moment of my life.

That Richard took the time to come to the Ampitheater, and then got up and came backstage after the opening act, left the stage. So I tried to treat young comics and young entertainers and I meet the way the legends taught me,

the way the legends treated me. I remember having Quincy Jones come to watch me at the Rocksy. The next day he calls me, has me come to the studio, and I sit with him while he masters something called off the wall. Oh, wow.

We didn't even know, and he's going, he's like, listen to this, this is Sheila E. Hidden, different solar bottles, with different levels of water, and it makes different noise, and it's stinkin', but it didn't, it didn't, it didn't, and he just plays that part.

“And I think it was the beginning to don't start to you get in it.”

Oh, yeah, yeah. But sitting there, and he's a, yeah, man, Michael coming back, man. He coming back hard. You know, and then he played a song, he says, "You're from Ohio, right?"

This is the first time I've ever met him.

You're from Ohio, right? And I'm like, "Yeah, John, leave me tell me you're from Ohio. Let me play some notes." He plays a song called "Fat Find 100 Ways." And he says, "This is just a scratch track by a guy who's letting me hear how,

it can't sound." And I said, "What's his name?" He said, " His name is James Ingram. He's from Ohio. He's from where you from."

And I'm saying, "Let him sing it." You know? And he says, "Yeah, yeah, this is my first day with the demo." And he puts on his album, "Find 100 Ways and Just Wants." And allows the guy on the scratch track, the demo.

James Ingram to sing it, and James, we come to huge star. Those kind of moments are incredible blessings.

“And all I can do in fairness is try to return them”

every time I get the opportunity with a young man or young man.

I always hear that you do that relentlessly and with great kindness.

And our cineau, we're going to have to do a part two at some point, because you have, there is so much more to talk about. There really is. You've got so many great stories. Like they say, in our business, we get off-script.

This was not a script. This is me loving the book. Why don't you talk and do about it. And being really excited that you're here and fanboying a lot. So that's me being me.

I'm a man. You remember I came up to you. Were you outside the Four Seasons hotel? Yes, I was like, "You came up to me and I was like, "Shinni, I walked up to me." But it was so nice to me.

And I'm always that way. Yes, you're above the crowd wherever you are. You know, there's a lot of little guys with you. The uniform is running around. I'm like, "Look at Conan above all the uniform."

Are you excited? I didn't realize you were that tall. And no one does. You have the personality of a very small man. Yeah.

But in the paint. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, please come back because people are going to love this episode and we gotta keep it going.

Okay. Thanks for letting me come. Are you kidding? Thank you all. This set.

He looks like one of the new kids on the block, you know, there's a dude in new kids on the block. Who looks like you? I'm like, "My sister's low in your kids on the block." Yeah.

You look like his son. Because he's by 50. But he's 80. But you look like the son of a new one of Mark Wahlberg's guys. Anyway.

I hope we're off the air at this point. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonom of Sessian and MacGorley, produced by me, MacGorley, executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Leah. Well, theme song by the White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vivina, take it away, Jimmy.

Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples, engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns, additional production support by Mars Melnik, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista and Britcon. You can write and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode.

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