Dan Levy

Hi, my name is Dan Lovey and I'm feeling thrilled, titillated, excited, stimu...

Jesus, to be Conan O'Brien's friend.

“I think you're thinking of a different Conan O'Brien.”

I'm just feeling really good right now. Books and guns, I can tell it to me, I'm going to be friends. I can tell it to me, I'm going to be friends. Hey everybody, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs of Friend. And I sit here quite proudly with my good friends, Son of a Session.

Hey, Son of a, hi. And of course, if it happened, we were chatting just before the podcast started about different things that we were excited about. And then David, you were electrified because you said, and you had a huge smile in your face, you said they just renewed Grey's Anatomy.

I know for what season 23 and okay, this show started. I think shortly after the end of the Civil War. No, um, whole cast have aged out and died. There's only three original's left. I know, but what, how could this show still be going?

And I don't mean to be ignorant or, and I'm so happy that people love Grey's Anatomy, but I was unaware that it was still, it's still kicking, and I was still watching. Okay. I started it at Warner Brothers when Son of gave me permission to watch TV.

I watched the first 14 seasons.

Wait a minute. Hold on a second. Wait a minute. Hold on a second. Son of was my assistant.

Yeah. And then you were supposed to help her and she gave you permission to watch.

“Never forget it, Son of, because I was so at Warner Brothers, Son of was on the second”

floor with you. This is for the TBS show. Yeah. I was up on the third floor. Something Son of a call me, and one day she called and she was like, hey, you know,

if you're up there waiting for me to tell you to do something like feel free to watch Netflix. And I said great. And I watched 14 seasons of Grey's Anatomy. You are, you were a cancer. What the fuck?

I'm, you are a cancer that turns everyone into an indolent clown. You, you instructed him and he didn't just watch one show or half a show. He watched 14 seasons. This is your work environment, that you are the boss. You set the tone.

It comes from the top. Yes, it does. I don't think so. I think that there is a, the tone I set, very hard worker. I'm very intense.

And then you come along and everyone around me, are you being serious? You say, I understand you work hard. Yes. But you're not a serious person. Like I walked, I'm very serious.

No, I walked into the Oscar rehearsal. And you asked everybody there if they all smell garlic.

You said that to a room full of people I never met before.

Hey, dude, he's like, hey, what's that smell? Is that garlic? And you looked over me. You know what? Oh, he's killed with all the seat fillers.

Yeah. They love my, my rifts about you. Um, anyway, you, let's get back to you and how you failed me. So you got him to watch. So you watch 14 seasons of Grey's Anatomy.

Well, guess what? You have like 35 more seasons to go. Incredible. Well, how do you think this show will end? There's a theory that when Grey's Anatomy does end, humanity will end.

Oh.

“I thought maybe you're going to have a real theory there for us?”

No, there's a theory that it's, it's been around as long as Earth has been orbiting the sun. Sure. I know you think the sun orbits the Earth, but that's not the case. Um, it's insane how long it's been going.

I know. It's an hidden credible. I mean, as long as Meredith Grey's on our TV, what else could we want? Which one is Meredith Grey? Um, Pompeo.

Okay. Um, and there's still doctors. Has the show morphed into now they live in a tree house or something though? A lot of shows have been on that long morph and now they live on a dude ranch and they're not doctors.

Is that happen? No, but the amount of, like, just natural disasters and awful things that happen in the hospital. What kind of stuff happens? Like, there's a whole, really intense shooter episode.

There's a plane crash episode. Wait, the plane crashes into the hospital? Not into the hospital. All the doctors are on a plane and the plane crashes. Well, what are the odds of that?

I know. There's a very episode where they, like, all start to drown. What? All of them were on a ferry.

So the doctors from the hospital all said, let's take a ferry and then it's the first

ferry that's gone under. That's an early one. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

So, yeah. Well, the important thing is it seems to bring people a lot of joy and trying to make this a positive thing. Yeah. And I know I came across a little bit when I started out as like, how could Grey's

anatomy still be going? But that's a terrible attitude for anyone to have. No, I said the same thing. I also watched it when a first came out and they lost me when they blew up Kyle Chandler.

That's when I was like, I'm out of here with a bomb. They blew him up with a bomb. Yeah. Give me the context. When you said blow up, I assumed it was some kind of explosive.

Don't just say there was a bomb, they were blown up with a bomb.

How did Kyle Chandler blow up? There was an explosive in a person that they found during surgery. Why was the person, why would a person have a bomb in their body and then check themselves into the hospital? Answer that.

David, do you remember? I don't remember. No, he needed the person needed surgery.

“You just have to, you have to go with it.”

The person needed surgery. The person needed surgery. And the person didn't know that three years earlier, he had swallowed a caramel covered bomb. It was stuck in his rectum. I'm just explaining this to me.

So they're doing the surgery and then the girl feels something and then they're like, oh, my God, it's a bomb. You have to stay still. You have to stay there with her finger on the bomb so it wouldn't go off. And then they called the bomb squad.

And then the bomb squad got everybody safe. And then while he's walking away with the bomb in his hand, all like quietly and Kyle Chandler. Kyle Chandler. But he's on the bomb squad? Yes.

Oh, I thought he was a doctor and they handed him, no, he's on the bomb squad. Okay. And we're like, oh my God, everyone's clear. He's walking away. And then as he's walking away, it just explodes.

They cut to shoes that are empty, but they're smoking. It's not a cartoon. I wish it was a cartoon. And guess what? It sounds like a cartoon.

So someone checked in for surgery, had a bomb in them that they didn't know they had. Yes. They call on the bomb squad and who's in the bomb squad, Kyle Chandler. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach from Friday Night Lights. And he says, I'm an expert on bombs.

“Well, I think I'll take this with me home.”

I'll just go jogging home now. Who walks away with a bomb? You know, I'm sorry. I don't mean to nag on this wonderful show that you really like. Oh, there's a great musical episode, too.

No, there isn't. There's no way there's a new episode. They're around a table doing surgery while singing how to save a life by the fray. Okay.

And they find a bomb. I feel something hard. Oh my God. It's a bomb. We better get caught, Chandler.

Oh, no. He blew up. Oh, man. I just sneezed because I'm allergic to bad plots. How do they break a story on that show?

How does the writer's room say I've got it? Does a bomb in this patient? Why? Don't worry about it. No, no.

Okay, let's end. So all you fans of what's it called again? Grace. Grace anatomy. Season 77.

Remember the first season?

That was a good moment, President Hoover stopped by.

“And he said, I think there's an oppression coming.”

And by the way, I think I have a bomb in my colonel. [LAUGHTER] All right. Well, guess what? My guest today, and this is no transition here.

No. My guest today is an Emmy award-winning actor, director, and writer, a real writer who starred as David Rose in the hilarious series Shits Creek. Now you can see him in the new Netflix show, Big Mistakes. Very, very happy this gentleman is with us today.

Dan Lavi, welcome. I'm going to say one thing up front. It's not we're going to talk about initially. But I David, my assistant here, he downloaded. We were sent a few of your episodes of your new show, Big Mistakes.

And we watched a couple of them yesterday. And I was immediately, every time we finished one, I go, like, another one. I would be like, next.

I mean, my job is like, maybe watch the first one.

And then, yeah, I was like, no, it's next. And I was like, the hamster with the cocaine powers. I was like, no, I just wanted more hoping for. So that's a good sign. No, you are, yes, you want me to be a rat and a dick to the cocaine.

All of the above, it's really funny. And we will talk about that in a bit. But I'm so happy because I'm a massive Shits Creek fan as we all are. And then when I heard that you were up to something, another series, I was very excited.

Oh, prepared to be disappointed. Yeah, I love how your mind works. Because that's how my mind works out. So I was disappointed. That's right.

Certain that you would die? Wait, wait. No. Oh, my God. Expecting the worst in fact in the world.

Sure. And it delivered across the board. Oh, my God. What a tragedy. And what a travesty.

No, I'm so glad that you are back making more ridiculous fun. And you're so good at it. And just thrilled to have you here, I saw you recently, not to bring the room down. But I saw you very recently at a very sad event. There was also uplifting, which was Catherine O'Harris, the gathering for Catherine.

And I want to offer my condolences to you because we all lost this amazing person in

Catherine. But you had this relationship that's probably gone on your whole life with Catherine. I mean, you made this incredible role for her, Shits Creek. But all of us, that's one of those losses that I still can't quite fit into my head.

The crazy thing about it is that I'm still like, you know, I go on Instagram and

her face is there and Moira's clips from the show are all over the place.

“And every time I see her, even though I wrote the thing, I stop and I watch.”

And I'm watching not for anything that I did, but I'm watching because she is impossible. Not to watch and she's impossible not to love. And she's impossible not to laugh with her in anything she does. And it is like an unimaginable loss. Yeah.

That way she was just irreplaceable talent and irreplaceable person. Really, I may have mentioned this, but at the SNL 50th, it's totally arbitrary to me. Unless they were just had an Irish section, but I showed up and they gave me my seat. And I sit down and then there's an empty seat next to me and then who's who's a sign there, but it's Catherine O'Hara and I had the time of my life with her.

She's the greatest company. Yes, she's the greatest seatmate. She's the greatest dinner companion. Yeah. She was the greatest conversationalist.

Yeah. She was endlessly curious and humble and deeply deeply funny. Also, she has this way of instantly again. I don't know if this is because I'm part of that sick Irish tribe, but she had this way of immediately becoming like an older sister to me.

So I'm sitting next to her and we're going back and forth and both shitting in between sketches. And then finally at the end of the show, Paul McCartney comes out. It's like a surprise, but he comes out to sing like the end of Abbey Road. And I just next to Catherine went, "Oh, and she said what?"

And I said, "This guy's never good."

And Catherine, like, punched me. She's like, "Oh, shout out, you know." I don't, I know her, but I know her well enough to get punched by her, but yes, I did. That's also a stunning Catherine of her impersonation. Yeah, yeah.

She had a very sort of, "Oh, yeah, there's a throw." There's a throatiness to her, that was so gruff at times. And yet she played, like, Lola Heatherton, and there were rows and had this, like, unbelievable elegance. And yet, sometimes, could just be like, "Oh, god, yeah, something lose her words."

She also knew when something was not funny. Yes. Hence, you're Paul McCartney, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She knew when to bring it back to reality.

I wanted to be the one person who ever said that when Paul McCartney, came out. I just wanted, I thought, "There's no one's ever done it, I'm going to do it." I'm sure that was the reaction you were looking for. Yeah, exactly.

I don't know, limb with this Paul McCartney joke and see how I wanted to happen. I wanted to get punched by Catherine.

And my dream came true, but this segue is nicely into something that has always puzzled

me and at the event for Catherine, the former Prime Minister Trudeau, was there. That's right.

“At one point, I find myself talking to him after the ceremony, and I just said, "Why?”

Are Canadians. What is it in the water? What is it about?" And I know it's a question that's going to tell you, as to why he was there. And again, I don't know if that would fly with, I don't know, maybe.

I did, so when I saw him go, "Oh, and someone next me said, what's the problem?" It said, "He's never good." No, I asked him, "What is it about so many of my comedy heroes I grew up watching your dad, Joe Flarity, Catherine O'Hara, I mean, Marty Short, the whole crew, I watched them on SCTV, and I was a religious devotee of how smart and funny and great of it.

And really, it showed that was. Well, I also tried to get younger people to understand there's so much smart cutting it stuff that can come from any angle at you now. It just didn't exist then. And SNL was great and monolithic, but SCTV shows up shortly afterwards and it is more

like the internet comedy of today. It was maybe 50 years, that's felt like it's 50 years ahead of its time and I just fell in love with it. I was working in comedy, I've just, every time I work with Canadians and they're so fast and funny and I'm wondering, "You're growing up was it in Toronto?"

“Yeah, Toronto, and can you explain what this whole thing is?”

Well, I mean, my dad and Catherine have this philosophy that it's actually not, it's not a categorically Canadian thing, it's just Canadians who have succeeded, just like there's a lot of Canadian enthusiasm around them. But statistically speaking, I mean, I think there are a lot of very successful, specifically

Canadian comedians.

I believe that statistically it's off the charts, meaning I'm not satisfied with the explanation that no, there are funny people in every country and somehow Canadians just support them. You know, I've worked with way too many, all the kids in the hall guys, Mike Meyers are just the, it's an endless list and it's also pockets of very funny Canadians that have found each other at this point in their lives and I, you know, going, going one of my big, like

genie wishes would be to go back and watch some of those early second city nights.

Right, you know, John Candy, Andrea Martin, Catherine O'Hara, my dad, Marty, and then, you know, Gilda, and I mean, then you get into the God spell of it all, which I would have killed too have seen. Oh, that's the show we all want to go back and hang out at because it was, it's like

“every important science or every great painter in the Renaissance somehow got together”

and worked on one painting. It's insane. That's how it felt. This one production of God spell, everybody was in it. I mean, everybody and it has like legendary status, the very first movie I ever made

was with Tina Fey and I was so nervous and at a break, she came over and she was like, I want to talk about God spell in Toronto and instantly I was said at ease. Yeah. So it's, it's, yes, there are funny Canadians, but there's also like these pockets of unbelievably brilliant Canadian funny minds that have somehow found their way into the

international sort of zeitgeist. I think it's because we live above America, which is inherently sort of a very prideful freedom and, you know, you'll have freedom if it kills you, we're firing a freedom bomb at you. It's like, why, we can't relate, you know, we don't have that kind of hubris. So as a place that is sort of wanting to be very different than America, but knowing

that it is not quite as powerful.

Yeah. There is an inherent sort of self-awareness that is in the water and I believe self-awareness is what makes the people funny. Yes. It's a lack of self-awareness is, the most boring people you meet are completely unaware of how

boring they are. Yes.

“Canadians are very aware of how boring they are, and that's what makes it funny.”

Do you know what I mean? Yes. No, that's it. I don't believe it. We know what's going on and we can talk about it.

God, I love being Canadian. It's not in pretty good right now. Be Canadian. I'm clutching that passport. I got my wife and I got invited, I'm sure to that lake area where everyone has their

little cottages and miscocus and sitting on a dock and watching a boat pull up and you know, Katherine jumped out of the boat with her husband bow and your dad's there and people like the cast of SCTV is jumping out of a boat to sit with me on a dock while Marty for us drinks and I left my body. I left my body and probably a rumming thing.

Yes, rubbing thing and of course, I remember it was like two o'clock in the afternoon and Marty's like time for rumming tea. And I noticed he shouts about everything. We're calling my boy, we're calling Ting and then a boat pulls up. All my heroes are on one boat.

They all get out. We're sitting on the dock. I leave my body and I'm looking at myself thinking, that guy's hot. No. God, the sun has done wonders.

“That's what happens every time I leave my body, I'm like, "Check out that ass."”

Hey, are you looking at your own ass? Your ass isn't good. Well, still. No, I, but I was, I just couldn't believe it. I just couldn't, I couldn't believe the whole thing and then what's lovely about this whole

story is that I know that you growing up were very conscious of not wanting to be part of your dad's light and make your own thing and do it your way, which is, in some ways, I think, if you, yeah, because you talk about when you were a kid, I don't know where I read this, but you were a kid and if people were paying attention to your dad, you didn't want to be part of that.

Is that true? I would like walk 10 steps ahead or 10 steps behind. I really didn't like, well, I was like really insecure as a kid too and I think having a parent who is like well-known and particularly in Canada, that SCTV alumni are just like kind of royalty.

Yeah, they're like 10 Wayne Gretzky's walking around. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly it. And people would come up and, and the attention was just so kind of awkward and, and so

yeah, I never really paid attention to it and then I went, I got into the theater program

and high school and would never ask my dad for any help and really wanted to do it

On my own.

I just think when you, when you grow up under somebody who is so good at what they do, a lot of the trial and error of being a child of somebody who is good at what they do is trying to discover whether you are also good at the thing that you're excited about. And if you happen to be excited about the thing that your parent does, it makes it even harder. Yeah.

Because you're constantly in comparison, I remember taking it a second city class in Toronto in front of a five foot by six foot photo of my dad in costume, it was like Bobby Bitman. That was Bobby Bitman. Okay.

A giant Bobby Bitman. It was a giant like how I, you know, think with the red suit and then yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was and people were like, gosh, you look a lot like Eugene Levy. And I thought, I can't take these classes anymore, I can't do this because also failing an improv in front of a photo of your father who didn't fail it improv.

Yes.

It's worse than never having done it, it's worse than failing that a thousand things.

So I, I just, I never really, when I, when I, I got a job at MTV, I didn't tell them who my dad, I just didn't want anything to do with him. Right. Because I revered him so much, but also because I wanted to trial an error my own skills

“without the constant comparison of, is it as good as Bobby?”

Yeah. And slowly, but surely I built a name for myself and Canada very unbeknownst to the, to the audience that I was my father son and, and then when ships happened, I felt like I felt confident enough in my own point of view in what I was bringing to the table to ask him to collaborate. And I, I just had to get to that place by myself.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's almost like you had to do a, like a walk about or a desert sojourn where you feel these things out and it's interesting because they're also being Canadian.

You don't want the leg up. Yeah. You want the torture. Yeah.

I'm doing it completely on your own.

Yeah. But also when you do it on your own, there, there is a greater satisfaction in the success. Yes. Should's Creek initially the reviews were mixed and, and you were taking some heat for,

“like, oh, is this, you know, is I believe the New York Times called me untalented.”

Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. And the, yeah, in the review in the review of season one and the problem with doing press

around something when these articles are coming out is you then have to swallow the facts that the new, everybody is reading the New York Times reading, like, I don't know if it was the word was untalented, but that was the takeaway that I took from it. It was not kind. Yeah.

And then you kind of had to go and be like, ah, I'm really excited about the show that I'm making. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And you sometimes just have to keep working. Yes. To prove yourself.

And I'm fine with that. Yeah. I mean, this is funny. Because you mentioned this with the, in Canada, you don't want to leg up. You almost want the punishment.

I realized that I had kind of a self-hating thing that was very comfortable with the punishment early on. Sure. And then when things turned around, but at the time they turned around, I felt much more confident because I felt like I hadn't been floating along on a lot of hot air, certainly.

And it can feel beneficial, you know, to, to, to walk through that in the beginning. Absolutely. And find your way. I'll feel very lucky about the fact that nobody really watched shit's Creek until it was done.

So we were able to just make the show we wanted. How rare is that? Yeah. To make six seasons of a TV show with absolutely no expectations from an audience. Nobody cared.

We were hustling till the end. And then it wasn't until I had finished writing the last episode of our six season, the series finale that people started to pay attention. So we had this wonderful kind of window where due to, you know, luck and circumstance,

we were able to stay on the air for six amazing seasons.

Yeah. But nobody cared. But also. So. Right.

I care. Yeah. Yeah. And now they're done. And we are a culture now.

“I think there's upsides and downsides to the modern streaming world we live in.”

A big upside is shows that I love like an arrested development or a shit's Creek. They're there for me at all times. Right. And you can go through and you, you can paid through them like having a classic novel

Around the house.

Sure. It's really lovely. And I remembered thinking this before she passed. I remember thinking it was such a nice thing for Catherine to have that role during that last decade of her life where she was playing someone who was beloved, because people love the character

and they're really getting to see yet another way that she's really funny. And she was very proud of it.

“And I think people were always coming up to her saying we love you when she's Creek.”

It was such a nice thing. It's the greatest thing that you made happen. She made it happen. I just made sure that I was prepared. Okay.

That's really what it came down to. Like so much of Moira Rose was Catherine. Yeah. As is every character, she, I mean, you know, Seth Rogan was talking about this recently about, you know, how the amazing thing about Catherine is they, she would email them the night before being like gentlemen.

Some thoughts about the scenes we're shooting tomorrow. And it would be a full top-to-tail rewrite. And as soon as he said it, it was like, I got those, I got those emails.

The gentleman, it always started with gentleman some thoughts.

And then it was an unbelievable rewrite of the scene. And that is what the amazing, all the great Catherine roles were when she found collaborators that wanted to give her that platform. You know, because she had so much to offer and she was so hurt the way that she thinks is so on another level that as a writer, you can't get into her head.

“So all you can really do is set the table.”

Wait for the email. Gentlemen, some thoughts. Read the scene and say, fuck yeah. You know, and like, just be prepared. You know, she told me how she wanted to look on the show.

My job was to make sure that in a wardrobe fitting, we had everything that would excite her. Well, this, this I have to break in because just brought up a topic that came to my mind, which is the wardrobe for the show was, you know, a star of the show as well. Sure.

And it always reminded me a little bit of Gilligan's Island where the premise was these,

these people get together for a three hour tour. The storm hits, they're washed up on an island, and every time you see the howls, they're wearing these absurd different outfits. And they just said, yes, they brought a trunk of their clothes with them on a three hour tour. And it was in trunk that was like out of Hogwarts.

It would have been for years. There's Belgian armor in there. There's Shakespearean garment. Every single thing you would ever need.

“And I remember having that thought about shit's Creek, which is they had money.”

And then slice it, but not to keep every piece of clothing. And somehow store it in a motel. Very small motel. Often booked up. Yeah.

In our mind, all of their clothes were stored in the upstairs above the lobby of the motel. But also, I love how we rationalize it. But I love it. I love it. You do seem to me like someone who does his homework.

I'm sure you were doing all of the character work, and figuring out, down to the smallest detail. But to that point, those clothes did so much of the character rest for us. Yes, yeah. All I had to do was make sure the racks looked good.

And they were nuts. And that we had huge sky high heels. And like knee high boots. And many skirts made out of latex. And at some point, there were some,

I would source these these designer pieces that sometimes required us. To contact the designer. To find out how to put them on. There's a dress that Catherine wears. You enter through the arm.

No joke. There's a very classic scene where Moira Rose is being photographed in a field. By a character we called Sebastian Rain, who was played by Francois, or no, who is now a heated rivalry.

Yep, Finn. And she is in a latex dress that had to be tied with a shirt underneath. And we couldn't figure out how to tie the latex because putting a tie around latex is like rubber rubbing against rubber. So at one point, there were like four people around Catherine,

like one with a foot on her back. One trying to tie the latex. I'm like swirling around her being like, "Can you breathe? Are you feeling good? Is everything okay?" Okay, missing her.

And that was when Catherine was like at her most excited. When the costumes were so insane that it took five people to put them on, and then boots that were lay stopped that took 10 minutes, and then she walked on to set. You would hear kind of gasps from the crew.

Yep.

Because they never knew what she was going to show up wearing

and looking like depending on the wigs as well.

It was the joy of seeing Catherine excited.

There is no greater joy, right? But also, I mean, you got to wear great stuff. I wore a lot of drop crotch pants. They were all really comfortable, actually. So that's all you can ask for.

I mean wearing double face cashmere in the dead of summer and Toronto outside. That's tough. But I won't complain about it. We all pay our dues. Exactly.

I always heard that Sarah Jessica Parker owned her deal

when she was making sex in the city was she gets to own all the dresses and that they're in a massive warehouse somewhere and she owns them all. And I'm thinking, I hope you had that deal with shit's crazy. Are you fucking crazy? Do you understand how little that show cost?

We had to sell every piece of clothing. Sure. To pay off the debts that the show had even in our sixth season. Wow. We got no cash.

It was like slim pickings from the very beginning. And then incremental sort of.

“I think it's like a standard 15% whatever it is that your budget can increase.”

But you know, 15% unlike a pile of shells and a feather is not giving you much. So we had to sell it all. I kept four looks. I kept four of Katherine's looks. Four of Annie's looks and four of my looks.

Unfortunately, my dad suits. We can just buy in a store. But so I have some. The right perspective will be small. But I do have.

Some of the museum is going to be like a little nuk in a long time. It'll be a corner. Yeah. Here they are. The four outfits.

That's right. Moth's got to them. But it's fine. They were kept in my parents basement in Toronto. Where they still are.

In a, you know, plastic bin. So we'll see how the show ends. And I know that people are probably all saying to you as they do in this business. Or really any business once you have a success. Hey, what's the next thing?

That's right.

And I have never known what the next thing is.

And going to like a weird sloppy thing.

“I think my, my wonderful team of people.”

I will, I cannot hear the word momentum ever again. Right. Right. I don't, it means nothing to me. And a moment to my feel like is is a word that forces people to make bad decisions.

Wow. That's good. I just. And yet this is an industry that's like, you're hot, you're hot. You're hot.

What about this? And someone says, yes, and you do it. And suddenly it's your spread to thin. We see it all the time. I, I don't know.

I feel like I've been lucky enough to really care about the quality of the work. Because to me, if what I'm putting out there isn't good, then why am I doing it? Right. You know what I mean? I worked at a bakery in a video store.

I can go back if I have to. Oh, the video store. Wow. You can trim that right. No, we can.

I worked on it. We're going to put on a loop. Yeah. It's not fun. Yeah.

And there's no, I mean, you know, to work on things you don't care about. It's just not fun. So I would rather take the time and risk the lack of momentum. Right. And put something out that continues to, like, excite people, then take every

opportunity and not be, maybe even the best fit for the opportunity that crosses my path. Yeah. It's a really interesting point. You make about momentum because that is a thing.

You got to strike while the iron is hot. You know, you just had to hit movie. You've got to write a book instantly. Yeah. Did I sell to Stito's chips?

Absolutely. Do you regret it? No, you do not. Absolutely not. I was making a Canadian TV show.

Okay. Even at the end, we weren't making it. Yeah. Different. So when to Stito's, I love a to Stito's chip.

You know what? Anyway, can I just say one of the things? It's a good chip. Yeah. It's a good chip.

It's a good chip. Prep pairing yourself. That's right. I'm thinking. I'm just putting it out there.

I don't want to do something like that. Again, the humble side of myself was like, don't make it seem like you didn't take the, you know, right. The ads. I just the ads. I enjoyed them.

I was able to make them my own. Yes. Well, to me, the great revenge is if you can make one of those things funny and in your voice. That's it. Then it becomes something you would have made anyway.

Exactly.

Which is always the dream.

But I'm just curious.

“You're in this period, then, where you need to think, you need some time and time goes by and you've”

worked on other things, but then this idea comes along. And did you have this idea? This show idea. In between that show, I made a very small movie called Good grief for Netflix, which was exactly what they wanted me to make after the success of shit's creep.

Small film on the rumination of grief.

Just examining the small, ins and outs of how a group of friends deal with grief.

You want laughs. We got laughs. And I was so aware of it at the time when I pitched it to, you know, you're looking at very kind executives being like, um, and then, and then, and that's it. Okay.

Great. And they made the movie and I was so happy because it got me through such a hard time in my life and I'm so proud of the film. But yes, now we are back to comedy. Yeah.

“And I'm again, but I do think, if you have curiosity, you have to, I think that's why the second album from an artist is always kind of the experimental one.”

Yeah. Because when they have success in one area, like a record, you'll listen to an unbelievable record, like jagged little pill, for example. And then you have supposed former infatuation junkie, which is like, similar, but very different. But I think you need the freedom to play in another area to show yourself that you have the ability to do other things because the industry can make you feel like, oh, you're that guy. Yeah.

So that's what you do. And you'll do that. And I did. I got like really, a lot of scripts where I was asked to play essentially a worse written, David Rose. Yeah.

And I was like, I did that better than this. So I don't want to do that again. Yeah. I want to tell a small story about friends who are dealing with grief. And then I'll get back to the comedy.

Right. But I have to know what else is out there in order to feel confident enough to come back into the space that gave me everything I have now and be excited to come back to. Right. Well, I mean, as I said earlier, David and I were watching a couple of the episodes and really enjoying it.

“It's really funny and the first thing I noticed before the show began is that this is something that you worked on with Rachel Senate.”

Yes. And I thought immediately like, well, love Dan, love Rachel. Very much looking forward to this and then didn't disappoint. You know, it's really funny. I'm really happy with it.

And you know what's interesting is right away. It's revealed that your character is a pastor like in the first frame. And it's and it's almost so felt like you throwing down a gauntlet like, no, this is not David. Yeah. It's not David.

It's not David. It's not David. You. And it was so smart because in this one felt swoop. You're like, oh, he, this is no by making him a pastor.

You're a completely different person. That's right. It was, you know, I wasn't even a conscious thing. I think it was just curiosity. I wanted to do something different.

I never get the opportunity to be part of a crime thing.

Yeah. You know, it's just not, I guess, what people see me as. So part of what was exciting to write the show. And when I thought about like, well, you know, when you commit to TV, it's a lot.

It can potentially be a long journey, but a long journey. Better like what you're writing otherwise you're in trouble. And the idea of finding a way through both comedy and crime felt really exciting to me, because it's so far from my comfort zone, the idea of being blackmailed into organized crime is a horrible phobia that I have.

I don't know what specific I don't know where. You know what it is. I've never heard of. And I'm not really speaking, I hate being trapped in things. Yeah.

So the concept of being blackmailed into organized crime, you are stuck. You're not getting the chances of you getting out of that one way out. It's not good. And if you're me in that situation, you're done. Bye.

Bye. So that felt exciting. And I brought the idea to Rachel. She loved it. We worked on it for, you know, eight months and wrote the pilot in a night.

And it was just, it was great. It was so fun to act. It was so fun to write. I have to talk about your, your sister is played by Taylor or Tega. Yeah.

And she's really funny. And I was not as familiar with her. I didn't know Taylor. And I'm watching her with you in this show. And it feels like a real brother sister thing.

Yeah. It feels very real.

“And one of the things I think works so well is you are.”

You are so good when your character is in peril and desperate. You're so funny doing not even quiet desperation. But you, you play that so well.

And what you put yourself into consciously or not is a situation where you are always

Interrobable peril. That's right. From maybe five minutes into the show, you're in peril. And then the show just keeps turning the crank. Yeah.

You keep getting funnier and funnier and funnier as you're in more and more p...

And of course, you have this sister Taylor who's very different from you.

“And you know, more assertive and but also she's really funny in these situations.”

And the fact that you two still bicker when your lives are at risk. Maybe really happy. So that's what it was. What is the show? Yeah.

It's like, you know, playing with the audience in terms of saying, okay, what if this were you? And you're sibling. You wouldn't change the dynamic just because of the circumstance. You would be bickering in the back of a truck. Yeah.

Well, this is your, you're pointing out one of the situations. And I don't think I'm giving away too much. It's just a little thing that it gives you a sense of the show is you guys are. Are in the back of a truck. You're in great peril.

And then you see an opportunity to flee. So you start to run. She starts yelling at you that it's not a good idea. You start stop start yelling back at her.

“But it is a good idea and you two are fighting about whether or not you should flee.”

Well, the bad guy comes back. And I thought the fact that sibling sibling bitterness and bickering over rides. The instincts to live. That may be really happy. That's the joy of the show.

These are two people that will, if they're forced to get into a common grave. That would be arguing with each other about who should get shot second as opposed to first. Yeah. And I feel like, okay, you've got a lot of runway with that.

Oh, it's, that's always like the greatest realization when you're like deep into a season.

And you're like, oh, we're just getting started. You know, like that's the fun. And in finding Taylor again, it's like, I had this with Annie in, in shits. Yeah. Finding somebody who has done the work found the job.

And is ready to go and showing them to the world. That's a thrill. Yeah. One of the many thrills of the show, you know, working with Lori Metcalf. One of the, oh, who is it?

Who, by the way. Unbelievable. She's your mom. And she is, even when she's doing the subtlest thing. Yeah.

She's absolutely hilarious. And, you know, the,

like, in sufferable mom is a character that's been played a million times and then Lori Metcalf does it.

And you're, it's a whole new thing. It is. And she's so good. And it was, I mean, I've been a fan of hers for, you know, like, it goes back and back and back. But yeah, you know, Taylor is, I'm so excited for people to see her.

I'm so excited for her to get what she's worked so hard for. You know, I think that's, there's something thrilling about introducing somebody to an audience. Because so often now, it's like, you can't green light a show unless it's a stacked cast. Yeah. So to continue to tell stories with relatively up and coming actors is for me is thrilling.

I include Lori Metcalf as a relatively up and coming actor. Make it. You know, this was the project, right?

Finally, this is her breakout.

She's so, she's arrived. I'm so excited for her. You've talked a bunch in the, in the past, or any interviews about anxiety being feeling insecure. When you're growing up, and this is a topic that fascinates me because like it or not,

“I think we probably have to accept that that's an essential ingredient sometimes to the mixture.”

Sure. And I can't explain why that would be the case. And I feel like I'm legitimizing that kind of anxiety or those kinds of mental issues. But at the same time, I also think that was a big part of my situation coming along. And if I had to do it again and didn't have that, I'm not sure.

That would be here. There are certain ingredients. I'll be at painful ingredients that are necessary to, in my case, to the storytelling. Yeah. So much of what I write about is how families interact with each other under difficult circumstances. And if you come from a yelling family, I think this show in particular celebrates yelling families.

I think people who don't come from yelling families will probably watch this in shock and horror. But if you come from a yelling family, it is a celebration of the fact that anxiety and nerves manifest in very loud aggression between people. And if I didn't experience that and inherit it, I wouldn't be here today. So as hard as it is, there does come a point.

I think age is a big part of it too. Like I'm now 42. I don't care as much as I did when I was 20. When I was 20, everything was consequential.

So when everything is consequential and you are an anxious person, you will w...

Because you're so unaware of how little it matters in the end.

“So now I think I get to look back on my own experiences and kind of the experiences I've had with my family and all of that kind of stuff and celebrate it.”

- Yeah. - Instead of continue to wear it. I'm a less anxious person than I am now and I do actually think at the core of the show. It's an examination of what we inherit, what that kind of ancestral trauma that kind of trickles down from in this case like matriarch to Lori to the kids. You know, the very first scene of the show, Nona is dying and she's a yeller. And then you instantly see that this yelling streak has just found its way through three generations of this family. And all we try to do as a generation below is push back against what we're inheriting.

- Yeah. - And sometimes you can do it and sometimes you can. You just have to let it happen, but it's fun to be able to like write about the minutia of anxiety and how it affects people. I think it's endlessly entertaining. - Now, when you're making the show as the show made in Canada, it made a lot of energy in New Jersey. - Okay. - So, where do you live?

- And I need an address. - Well, I have been in LA and relocated to New York City to make the show. - And we shot New Jersey and it was very exciting to be back on the East Coast. - Which series is home when you think of going home? Is that Toronto? Is it LA now? - It's LA. - Yeah.

Okay, that's because I think that I'm always fascinated by that because home used to be Boston for me,

but it's not anymore because I've been gone too long. - And I think the more that the hometown changes, the less you can relate to it. Like I was just in, I just came from Toronto yesterday night. And I look around and it's just not the place that I grew up in. So when you look around and the place doesn't reflect the memories that you have, all you have are the memories,

it becomes less and less about the actual place. So my life now is in Los Angeles, most of my friends are in Los Angeles. And that is home. The hometown is a memory at this point. - Yeah.

“- But also I think one of my parents are still in my family house.”

- Oh. - In Toronto. - Right now it's the same house all these years? - Yeah. - By the way, your mom's really funny. She is very funny.

- She's the arguably funny you're the my dad. - Yes. - Yeah. - And you'll admit that. - Yeah.

- Yeah.

- I've tell you're dad all the time. I've never found him in music.

That's right, really. And his eyebrows go up. (laughing) - No, he is such a lovely man. - Yeah. - I met all these people for the first time when I did an aspen.

They asked me would you come out to do the aspen comedy festival. This is just when my show had kind of clicked in and starting to gel. - I remember being a younger and thinking that was the coolest thing. - The aspen. - He got to meet you.

- Oh, wow. - Yeah. You got that wrong. (laughing) But I remember they said, "Conan, were you? We want someone to interview all the SETV greats.

And I thought this is a make a wish. Like I must be dying and no one told me. But I went and talked to everybody and interviewed them and got my preparation and we did the thing. And when it was over, your dad said, "Hey everybody,

everyone was trying to disperse and your dad, like a camp counselor said, "Hey everybody,

“I think Conan put a lot of work into this.”

And did a really nice job." And I think we should give him a round of applause. And I thought, "What a incredibly nice man to do that." - That's so nice. - You know, like he was taking care of me.

- Right. - He saw like, "I've waited a minute. This guy, let's before we all go. Let's make sure we do this."

And that always that touched me a lot at the moment.

- He's a very sweet man. - Yeah. - He's a very soft, well-intentioned, sweet person. I did not inherit his goodness. (laughing)