Oh Walt Whitman!

- Conan O'Brien needs a fan.

Wanna talk to Conan? Visit teamcoco.com/callconan. Okay, let's get started.

“- Hey, Brooke, welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a fan.”

- Hey, how's it going? - Hey, Brooke, how are you? - I'm great, how are you? - I'm doing all right. Where I don't see where you are in the world.

Where are you? - I'm in New York, currently in Queens. - You're in Queens? - Oh, terrific. And all I know about you, it says here,

and this is fascinating to me, is that you are an intimacy coordinator. Is that correct? - Yeah, that's correct. It's the best job in the world.

- Yeah, it is. Well, it's okay, so no, why don't you tell us the weight side? - Literally, so does the one that has thoughts about this. (laughing)

This is, I mean, this job is endlessly fascinating to me. And I would think it's become more and more necessary as sex scenes, if you think about, back in the day, it was a kiss, and then the camera would drift over to an open window and some billowing curtains,

and then hand back over and people are smoking cigarettes, and the covers are pulled up to their chins. So obviously, as sex scenes become more graphic and realistic, you need people there to make sure that everything's copesthetic.

Is that correct?

“- Yeah, I think the position came out of the MeToo movement”

where all of a sudden the awareness of some of the abuses and Hollywood became very apparent. And as a result, producers started being willing to pay for someone to be there, both for guaranteeing that actors can consent to what's being asked of them

in a private setting with someone who's not in charge of hiring or firing them. - Oh, right, right. - And then also exactly what you're saying, the artistic side of it, which is the fun part,

is making the scenes more believable, authentic, compelling, absurd, whatever the need of that project is.

- Okay, I mean, I'm curious, first of all,

how did you become, how does one become an intimacy coordinator? - Yeah, well, nowadays there's schools you can go to, but I started back in 2016, I was an actor for a bunch of years, and I tended to get cast in roles that involved intimacy

or trauma, and I realized that I'd taken years and years of study, I have my MFA and performance,

“and all of my teachers taught me how to get to the place”

of grief or fear or terror, but not how to get back from it. And I had a summary that I was doing three shows in a row, three theater shows, where I like cried for four months, basically every show, and I was like, I need a way to come back to who I am, that's healthy.

So I started creating a warm down for actors, and theaters started bringing me into teach it. And then I'm queer, I came out late in life, and when I came out, I realized right away, I wanted to tell queer stories,

because I hadn't come out earlier, because I hadn't seen representation of bisexuality. - Right. - So I wanted to tell those stories, but I realized I had a straight lens. - Yep. - And so I took a year and every day for a year,

I read something, or listened to a podcast, or watched a show, or took a class all on queer, sex, and storytelling, BDSM, and Kink. And then theaters started bringing me in to stage that bondage scene.

And then one day, a theater said, "Hey, will you be our intimacy director again?" And I was like, "Do you Google? "What is an intimacy director?" And right about that time, it was being named,

and people were paying for it. And I realized that this thing that I was doing, that involved boundaries and consent, choreography and closure, which was the warm down section, there was no a field.

And so I kind of had that, you know, when people say that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. - Opportunity? - Yep. - Yep. - Yeah. I mean, that was my journey, and it was awesome.

And then when the pandemic hit,

I switched to film and TV, film first.

And then I got to do my first TV scene on June 1st, the first day of Pride, on Harlem, and it was a queer scene, and that was pretty awesome, and I was hooked. - Oh, well, good for, I mean, first of all, congratulations on, I'm very happy when people find,

it takes a long time. Sometimes it can take all different amounts of time, but it can take a very long time to find sort of your calling. You know, what you feel like you were put here to do, and it sounds like you didn't happen overnight,

but you found it, and that's gotta be incredibly rewarding. I have to say, one thing is that I could see a lot

yeah, I'm an intimacy coordinator, but they're not.

“Are there ways that you can say I'm licensed?”

Is there a license you can get? Is there any way that they can patrol it so that it creeps like me. Don't become intimacy coordinates. That's what I'm saying.

- You're like, do it, guys. - Yeah, you guys, don't you do it, and I'll watch. I'm calling it, why are we doing this at a campground? Why it? This is my method, you know?

- This isn't even a scene. - Yeah, why are you taping this with an old super, super-rate camera? - So, yeah, that's what I'm saying is, we need to stop people like me

from becoming intimacy coordinator. How are you doing that? - I'm really glad you brought it up 'cause I am here specifically to stop you from doing this. - Yes, yes, yes, yes.

- Oh, okay, all right, well, just try. - There isn't any licensing. There are schools that offer certification or accreditation or diploma, but really the marker in my opinion

is sag after it came out with guidelines for intimacy coordinators,

“which is a number of things you should be trained in.”

- Yep. - It adds up to a minimum, I think, of 75 hours. And then in order to be on the sag after registry, you have to have worked on a sag set for at least 60 days. So, if a producer's really looking for someone

who's super qualified, then that's one way to tell. But I also think asking someone about their process is really useful because not every IC is great for every project. - Right.

- And I'm a big believer that you need the right IC for your project. - What is, I mean, I want to get into some of this 'cause there's so much I don't understand. But there are, are there devices or kinds of garments

that people wear because you can't really have people touching each other certain parts, right? So, what is the barrier to that?

What is, 'cause I've always heard that there are these things

and you hear about it and you like, I don't know what they're talking about. - Yeah, you're exactly right, it's called a barrier. - Okay. - And if it's a sag after film,

there can be no actual sex acts. So, a barrier can look a number of ways. It could look like this, this is... - That is the next thing of everything. - So, no one, oh yes, and you're basically holding up.

What looks like a giant eye patch? - Yeah, I mean, yeah. - I'm glad that there's, I'm glad she has problems. - Okay, okay, okay, so what is that? - That's a barrier.

- You're correct that sometimes filming these scenes is at least sexy thing you'll ever do. This is a modest department with a barrier. It's made by Kovier in New York.

And basically, this is for someone with external genitalia,

it's a might call that a penis. And basically, you would put all everything in here, and then you would pull it tight, and then it's taped to the top of, like right below your belly button.

And inside is a barrier. And a barrier is meant to reduce sensation and prevent the transmission of fluids. - Okay, a couple of things here. - First of all, that thing seems huge.

What do you do with all the extra room? (laughing)

“Is that for, is that for cash and credit cards, too?”

- Absolutely. - I'm just looking at that thinking that you like, there's a lot of extra room. You know, I don't know what kind of freaks your work in with, but I'm keeping a book in there.

But Brooke, yeah, there we go. - Okay, fluids. (laughing) - We have to talk about this. Is this something, and I'm asking,

if you're listening right now, and they're children in the car, you know, what are you doing? (laughing) But do people get themselves in a state while they're acting where there could be

various secretions? - Honestly, not very often, if at all. If someone were to get aroused, for example, there are lots of things you can do to let that go. - Just think about baseball.

- That's what I do. Just think about 1975 Red Sox, and it all goes away. Oh wait, no, it's coming back to the vengeance. (laughing) - Thinkin' about Dwight Evans.

That's a good lookin' man over there and right field. - Anyway, so it doesn't happen that often. What is, oh my God, what is the thing that's depicted in most sex scenes that you see that's the most inaccurate?

they always do this in scenes,

and it's not how it really works. - Well, two things actually, I would say, one, like a very fast orgasm, where it's like, we started touching and now we're all orgasming together at the same time, but the other I would say is,

we often don't see the moment of insertion, where all of a sudden they're just having sex. - Yep. - But in real life, it takes some effort for the penis to find a vagina, for example,

and-- - You mean the actual moment of coordinating this part goes into this part, and it takes a second, right?

“- Yeah, and I think 'cause we're not actually doing it,”

people forget that there needs to be that moment of reaction of like, oh, something new has happened. - But it's a breath, or a slight shift, or something. - Yes, well, first of all, thank you for getting the word out there that sometimes there can be some fumbling,

some confusion about what goes where, you know, it's, well, no hold on a second. (laughing) Maybe one knows the whole, but it's dark. (laughing)

You're getting yelled at, do you know what I mean? - You're getting yelled at? - Yeah, what are you doing?

You've never got, how many years, and you didn't get better,

and that kind of thing. Oftentimes you're trying to eat a sandwich with one hand, you know, 'cause you didn't get a chance to eat after the podcast. (laughing)

I'm speaking very generally. (laughing) - Absolutely. - You know, you've got your looking, you're trying to watch, you know, television in the same time.

(laughing)

“Well, old clips of yourself, not current clips,”

but old clips of the TBS show and before that, the NBC show. - Oh! - Okay. (upbeat music)

- Connor Bryan needs a friend, has partnered with Air, B and B. I use Air, B and B quite frequently. I know you do as well, Sonna. - I do a lot.

- I don't know about you, but when I'm traveling,

especially if I'm in, I don't know, Europe, Canada, any place like that, I like sometimes to not stay in a hotel. I like to feel like I'm part of the fabric. Of the place I'm visiting. Stay in someone's apartment,

and you get a real feel for what it's like to live there, as a person. Do you ever have that? - Yeah, we're actually planning a trip for my mom's birthday this year,

and we're thinking about going to Vancouver. - Oh, wow, I love what a cool. - We want a whole house 'cause it's gonna be my family, my brother's family, my parents. So it's beautiful there.

- And I also think knowing your family, and I say this with all kindness, you need a house. - I mean, you don't want to be in a hotel where you're gonna get kicked out from being crazy. (both laughing)

- Yes. - I think it's a great idea. You can also put your place on Airbnb if you're going away, that's another possibility. - Yeah.

- Might as well make some cash while you're out of town. - It's a good idea. It kind of pays for the vacation. - You've got a nice situation. Son, you could probably get a good scratch

by having some people stay at your place while you're gone. - Yeah. - Your home might be worth more than you think. So find out how much your place is worth at airbnb.ca/host. (upbeat music)

- So much of intimacy is about reaction. So if we don't have those moments of reaction. - Yep. - We lose it. And so much of us get our education from media,

our sexual education. And so when we show these things are impossible. And of course, we can traumatize things, but we're doing a disservice to folks. - People now watch these things and they think,

"Oh, it's easy to do it standing up in the kitchen." - Do you want me in? - And it's, yeah. - I'm telling you, it's not. - It's not easy.

Especially not easy. - It's not easy. - It's not easy. - You know what I mean? And then you try to incorporate cake batter that's nearby.

Well, 'cause you see it, you think this will be a good idea. And then you get yelled at again. - I need to throw up. (laughing) - Cake batter, come on, I can't, I gotta go.

- Where you going, you got nowhere to go. (laughing) - Good go. - What do you use? Do you use drawings, charts?

What do you do to try and instruct people

“when you're explaining how the sex scene should work?”

- Times of things, sometimes I just use my words. Like, sometimes I do use images. Sometimes I use action figures. - You have action figures? - You got all of this stuff.

(laughing) - Wait, what's happening there? I need to try and figure out what's happening. - So this gentleman on the bottom is laying down and joining himself.

- Good tell what the sex was of that person because it looks like a Lego. - Yeah, and it's like a Lego. - One knee on the ground, one foot up and he's pleasureing this guy.

(laughing)

- You could just add her.

“- Okay, she's gonna kneel onto his leg, and she's fisting.”

- Oh, she's fisting? - Oh, yeah, she's gonna fist this guy. - She's pushing her foot, okay, so. All right, that is two males and one, right? Well, describe what's happening here.

- Yeah, two, and then some people are just listening. - You've got to check out the video, by the way, and it's on YouTube. You've got to see it. It's incredible.

- But yeah, this would be a particularly difficult scene to just talk through. - Yeah, I'm trying to explain that. - That's a-- - Yeah, so I have--

- That's an extra drawing. It's that you don't know, the stairs are turning into more stairs or turning into more, I mean, it's a very confusing. That's a dolly painting, there's a melting clock in the corner. So, yeah, okay, I see what's happening.

That's not a situation that probably comes along every day. You know? - No, not specifically. - Yeah, probably not. - And what movie was that for?

- That's for you. - That's for you. - It's for you. - What is that? - Oh, no!

- He just got fired from it. - He just got fired from it. Now, editing the out of postory five, as we speak.

Don't worry, it's a $100 million fix at the last second.

Fixer has the money. So you have those, those figurines ready to go.

“I mean, it's not like you have to improvise”

with the GI Joe and a Thor in an Iron Man, right? - So, I have a whole kit of stuff I bring to set. - My bed you do. - What do you do? - The barriers you saw, these guys.

I use this for a barrier sometimes. - And what is that? - That's like a church. - It's just a squish mellow, but sometimes if someone's having a rough day,

it's a little bit hilarious if I just put this between the two people, because you can't have a bad day when you've got a squish mellow near you. - So, I think I'm aware that I'm not an actor, every time, a true actor, every time I see a sex scene.

And I think I don't know how these people do this. You know, because there's 75 people around them. And I just can't imagine how they do it. Organizing, pretending to orgasm, it's just, and then there's a sound guy, two inches away from you,

who just had a liver worst sandwich. And you know what I mean? Or a chat tobacco and it's insane. - Absolutely. I mean, this is why we don't get aroused very often

'cause there's all these people around, but you could do it if you wanted to, Conan, because it's actually so technical. Like, I worked with an actor recently on an orgasm, and we choreographed it.

We like voice-ography with what the breasts were going to be, what the vocal sounds were going to be, so that she didn't have to make any of it up. It was ready to go. Anyone can do it if they want to do it.

- Okay, but here's my question. Do people ever, sometimes they're drawing from personal experience, so when an actor is pretending to orgasm, they're really telling you often what they sound like,

or the sounds they make, which is very personal, right? Isn't that kind of straight as anyone ever revealed they're sounds to you and you're like, oh boy. Do you know what I mean? - Well, someone comes in.

“- I think that's why the position, go ahead.”

- But I'm just saying, I'm gonna take this a little further. - Oh no. - Let's say you were working with me, and I was in a movie where it's required that I have sex, okay? And there's a scene, and you say, okay, Conan,

and I'll say, well, let me just freestyle the first one.

And we've got the little squishy between me and the actress, and Squisha Squisha Squisha Squisha. And I'm there, and I'm going, I just hear me freestyle, I'm going, "Oh, yeah, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-

listening what my jam is. That's my jam. I think that's one of the reasons that it's so important to have an intimacy coordinator because actors should not have to bring their personal experience. Two sets, brother and daughter-in-law, so you're saying you would prevent me. You would prevent me from using my true noises and my certain Pecadillo's in a scene. I would give you the opportunity to do something that the character would do, rather than what you're saying. But what if the

You know what? You go for it. Okay. Yeah. I think it's endlessly fascinating. And I bet you they're

always coming up with new technology. They're going to keep coming up with new things. Like here's

a spray that the guy can put on his penis that encases it in a inert goo that will keep his penis from becoming around. You know, they'll become up with all kinds of crazy new stuff, you know? I know they will. I don't think they have. I want this spray. Come on, science. Hey NASA, let's get on it.

“That's what we need as NASA in the intimacy coordinator. I think we could make a partnership here.”

I'm just saying, I do think all foolishness aside, which is a lot of foolishness aside, but it's really good that you're there doing this. And it's stunning to me that it took so long for people to realize that, you know, we need someone on set to make sure that the actor is

taking care of and has an advocate, you know, in the moment. And when you said, I mean,

things that there should be so obvious, but you can't be talking to the director or the producer, who can have you fired. You need to be talking to you, Brooke. You're there telling them, I'm on your side, and let's make this work for you. So that's, that's huge. That's a great service you're providing. Yeah. And I find that actors, if they're given all the information, they're ready to go for it. Most often, there's not an issue, but often in the past,

actors weren't given the information in advance and things weren't choreographed. So it was just like

“go for it. And then you are bringing your personal experience because that's what you know. Yeah. Of where's now,”

we can say, oh, you've got a boundary about blank. Great. Let's talk through the story. Let's bring the director three other options that will work with your boundaries and that works with the story and see how we can all make this work in a way that works for everyone. So that on the day, the actor isn't worried about the intimacy. They're able to really dig in to the acting and give it their all. Do you have you ever seen a couple kind of start to

form a relationship when they're, you know, they clearly have feelings for each other or you see, like, oh, this isn't just acting. Have you ever seen that? Yeah, honestly, it happens quite frequently because our body is respond to physical touch to eye contact breath. So our body is can tell us we're actually attracted to someone even when we're not. And that's part of why closure practices are helpful to differentiate between when I am the character and when I am myself.

Yep. And if it's theater, we're talking about and two actors start to become involved. It's really important that the choreography doesn't grow with the actors relationship because that then isn't telling the character story anymore. So a stage manager, for example, is in charge of keeping that choreography really precise so that it doesn't change because that's just not professional. I could just see that happening all the time, though, people, and it does. People are on a

movie together. They fall in love for, you know, they start a relationship because they have been kissing each other and rolling around. Robin and other, would you say? They're rubbing each other. They're, they're, they're, they're barriers. Yeah, but, and they, and the barriers have all that extra room. So they have tick tax in there and alarm clock. And alarm clock. Yeah, the one they got for their great grandfather saying that barrier had a lot of

“true room. You know, there's a 64th bomb in the doctor pepper. What's that?”

Size them. Oh, good God. Thank you. Yeah. You know, I just don't like to waste material, Brooke, fascinating. What you do. It really is. It really is fascinating. And I'm happy for you that you, uh, that you realize this talent and you're helping people. And it's a very, it's, it's great.

It's really great. Thanks. You will never see me on a set having an intimate scene.

That's, uh, I will, I will always be the weirdo in the other room in any sex scene who appears in occasionally. Uh, that'll be my role. So you can teach me how to peer. Uh, Brooke, thank you so much for everything and take care. And I'll see you on set. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Anytime people talk about IC work, it gets more normalized. So I really appreciate you. Normalized. What about me going? Uh, uh, uh, walk with me. Normalized. Brooke, you called the wrong place.

and Matt Gourli. Produce by me, Matt Gourli. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross,

“and Nick Leah, incidental music by Jimmy Vivina. Take it away, Jimmy.”

Supervising producer Aaron Blair, associate talent producer Jennifer Samples,

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