CJ SPIRAL: Mica Miller

In a new audio-check limited series, the truth about Natalie, Hoseong-Cyping bestigates

“the disappearance and death of 27-year-old Natalie Jones.”

What starts as a missing person's case uncovers allegations of abuse, hidden secrets, conflicting evidence, and one haunting question was Natalie the victim of a tragic accident, or did someone have a reason to silence her. Listen to the truth about Natalie now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Grand Genki.

I'm your host Ashley Flowers. Hi, I'm Fritz. And today's episode is going to be very different. This is a bonus episode because I just need to talk about what I just watched. So badly that you texted me, Alyssa.

My sister. And Kate, who works here.

I like nine o'clock at night after nine, and said, "No, I'm 21."

My evangelical gals, all caps. Did the Lord magically sink her phone? OMG, I'll believe in God again if he redirects all his energy out to out dirty pastures. And Alyssa goes, "What are you talking about?" And then you disregard that question and I was into J.P. arrived at the scene.

The pastor's wife on Netflix. And she goes, "Stop, I haven't watched yet." I also hadn't watched it, but I was like, "Oh my God, I know this case. This is the micro-miller case." I, the pastor's wife just dropped a Netflix.

I stayed up to like, it's like the death of the pastor's wife. It's like the actual title. Yeah. So this is the story of micro-miller who is alleged to have taken her own life in April of 2024. I stayed up, binged it, to midnight.

It was a school night. Yes. Everyone else was apparently like going to bed, but I could not look away. This case is unbelievable. And I know it's what everyone is talking about so many of the crimes I'm going to use

you're talking about it. I want to just have a discussion about everything that was in this documentary. And also I couldn't help myself.

“I, in 24 hours, have just gone on a rampage on the internet and found everything that I think”

the documentary also left out. Okay. So I just want to, I want to talk to my best friend about this doc. Well, especially because this case feels very close to home because you and I both grew up together in an evangelical non-denominational church.

So there was a lot here that was like familiar and terrifying. Yeah. So, trigger warning to my evangelical gals and also spoiler alert to anyone who hasn't watched this. Trust me, even if you stay here, you're going to want to go see guess for yourself.

Or you can go watch it and come back, but let's just, I don't know, I just want to dive in. So, where I have to be totally honest, I have been, like, I know Mike and Miller's name. I have been kind of falling. One of our reporters had even like reached out to her family and was like, "We were going

to cover it." But they had said they're doing this documentary with Netflix, so they couldn't really talk, which is when we kind of put everything on pause, I knew this thing would be coming eventually, didn't know when.

And so I was never like deep, deep, deep into this case.

I knew the allegations, I knew she had bought a gun, I knew she had seen like the announcement from the platform of like him, right? I didn't ever even fully watch that. Like I saw all the news reports that came from that, where he basically said, you know, my wife, she was mentally ill, she, what, self-induced, like, and I knew that she, again,

like I said, I knew she had gone to buy a gun, I knew she had called 911 today, would know her location. But I also knew that there were a lot of questions, but I, I wasn't fully aware of what all of those were. So when I jumped into this doc, I truthfully kind of got encoled.

Yes, and didn't even really know, I know Mike and Miller's name.

“I, I didn't even really register, like, who is the pastor husband?”

So yes, so, so when, when she gets married, when I, yes, so when I go in, and I, like, as soon as she starts at this church and I see jump hall, I, you know, I'm like giving myself my own commentary. And as soon as they, like brought him on screen and I was like, yep, creep. And then she gets married to someone else and I was like, do I have it all wrong?

Yeah. It's my radar broken. It's not. It's not. And then I marked it.

It was like, uh, 12 minutes and 30 seconds in, no, I am correct. Because Mike, it gets married really young to a guy. She meets a church. She's like, are working the church together. They get married really young.

And she is working at the church and working really closely with John Paul, JP, who is the

She was been her pastor since she was, 13 or 14, I think, young, very young. And he put her in, like, very, very close to him, like, a she, which I'll get to later when I talk about, like, kind of some of the stuff I found, it seems to be a little bit of a pattern. Like, so not only were they close as a couple, like, he was married to another woman

at the time. She's married to her husband. They like, go out all the time, even though there's like a big age gap, like, this

“is the dynamic that when you and I grew up in a church, like, isn't that weird?”

I think it would be strange now thinking about it as like an 18 year old and my boyfriend has been to be, like, hanging out with a couple that's 15 years older than that. But not in youth group for some reason. No. And like, I, when I was watching this, I was like, I also, I also, like, to be clear, was in

the church for much longer than you were and was much more heavily involved for much longer than you were. Two pictures of you, like, on a stage held in the air. When she, when it's like, been in the documentary, they talk about her being in, like, this leadership role of the church when she was 16, I was putting the same leadership role

at my church when I was 18.

So, like, it seems incredible and unlikely when you're watching it in the dark.

But like, I was like, oh, I know exactly how that happens. I know exactly, like, also, like, what it feels like to be that young and to get that much responsibility in this place that you love and care about so much and how much of, like, an honor and a responsibility that feels like you do anything to do anything to do anything to stay in that role and to, like, something that can through the dark, like, I'll probably

talk about it many times.

“It's how much she cared for people, like, my could truly love people honestly more than”

I do whatever I have and, like, she wanted to keep that role so she could keep helping people. That truly was her heart through it all and knowing, like, not even knowing, but, like, assuming how much she had to, like, give up of herself to be in that role and to keep that is, like, I'm going to start, I'm going to cry in this episode and I'm just going to tell you guys about it, but, like, it seems, like, it seems wild to watch it, but, like,

as someone who lived it, it's not unbelievable to me. It's one of the questions, I don't know who asked me this, but they were like, I don't understand how there's so much video and I was like, they're like, is that normal? And I was like, oh, yeah, for some reason, like, even in the church week or been, like, they document everything. Yeah, and, like, I think, like, logistically the reason is, like, so you

can either, like, reference back to it when you do Christmas next year or to, like, be able to distribute it to help other people, right? Like, you record sermons so that you can share sermons, but, like, it is something that, like, there is a lot of footage of churches, especially nowadays.

Treasure trove. Yeah, having so much video footage. Yeah. I think A, what I, okay, first of all,

the first thing I saw that I was like, oh, this one might be hard for me. The banners. Did you see the banners in the back of the church? And I was like, we had that our god is king. Yeah, I was like, do all the banners come from the same place. If you like, watch the whole documentary and like, obviously, watch it a couple of times now, but like, the banners move in the buildings to different places. And like, towards the end when they're in like a, like, the last location

that they show the church meeting. And like, it's a much smaller room, but the banners are still there. And I'm like, we could just have not packed these. I don't know. That's just me. The banners, the worship songs, it was like a soundtrack to our youth. Like, I had a lot of songs that I recognized. Oh, sure. Yeah, for sure. And the sermons. I think, perhaps, if someone comes into this documentary, who did not grow up the way that we did, these sermons seem, oh, yeah, and this,

by the way, this episode will probably be explicit. So I don't think we're going to have time to believe in this, they will seem bashed crazy. Yeah, because they are, yes, however, I was like, pretty sure I heard that growing up. Yes. And I will say yes. And they mentioned the documentary. They have like over 500 downloaded sermons of footage of this guy talking. And we saw, I think I counted like four or five, maybe six total actual sermons, not funeral because we could see

“footage of funeral that he does. And so like, I think the important thing to remember is like,”

yes, these are all bad. But these are also selections that are especially bad. There's a thousand percent some crazy stuff in the other 500. But like, if you sandwich the sort of like interesting content in between things that seem very benign, it's really easy to not realize

what's happening. Yeah, like he, I got what you're saying. First, I thought you were saying, like,

oh, it's probably, I was like, wait, girl. No, like, like, this is one sermon. It's, it's two minutes of a minute sermon in 500. Yeah, exactly. And what I find though is the, the ones that they show, it's what is so clear as you watch the documentary is like, he is preaching to who, to her to her.

everyone to think the way that he is. Well, as someone in the documentary even says, like, he said before that, like, he only teaches on things that he himself is experiencing or is struggling with. Yeah. And he is trying to so much of what you see Mike is struggling with as they like show her journals and stuff is this idea of like, he is anointed by God. I want to follow God. And he anointed by God on the stage and front of everyone. So it's not just telling me this. He's

telling everyone this. So it's not just, it's like, it's good, it's, it's something that can help everybody including me. Yeah. It's how it's being presented to her. So it starts up like we get,

like we get like a little one's first where he's like, oh, you can still be in love with your

spouse and still battle lust. And I was like, okay, you're saying that because clearly there's that's because you are battling right? But then he gets like, like, it goes on from there. Like, I don't

“know if you want to go like episode by episode. So I like won't get too far away. But I have like,”

I have like selected the couple of sermons where I am like, he said this out loud. And nobody stood up and walked out. Yes. Now, in episode one. So we get a little bit about like, not a ton of background necessarily on both of them. I think it starts with a little bit of whatever. But what we find out is that like once this affair happens. So him and him and Micah have this affair. Micah, JPM Micah has affair. They're both married at the time. It comes out and Micah and her

has been get divorced. And JP's wife, Ali, is having none of it. Like, she's out. Amazing on her.

And he like, cannot handle being left. And we get this moment in the dog. And I think this is the first one where I'm like, what hang on, I actually have to play you. So the same way I frankly was texting you. I was desperately looking for any of anyone in my life who was watching this documentary. And I was texting like our reporter Mads, Brianna and Brianna and I at some point. Brianna and a completely different time zone. So she was still awake once. Yes. And so I was like,

she started setting me voice notes. I used to play it for you because she, the first voice note I got was about the same moment where I'm like, what am I watching? I'm almost done with episode one. But like, what was that cell phone video of John Paul like on the ground outside of the car? Like, crying. What was that? That was so weird. I also, like, on like a production level, weird. Like, who's shooting it? When is this? What's happening? Who is he talking to? Why is he on the

“ground? Who's like, he's still like, like, I think they were saying, Mark's coming with Mark?”

I, well, we know, we find out who Mark is. That's like the best man. Oh, right. Don't even start on Mark. We know Mark. But like the woman across the street has Mark's number. Why does she have Mark's number? Because he doesn't have any video shooting. There's ants in his eyes.

There's a lot going on in this video. And like, they never explained it. I know. I told her I was like,

I needed a three part documentary on that clip on this clip. We don't like go into it. Didn't was he like intoxicated. Did he fall out of his car? Like, but I think what I think it shows that we will get later and later is like his extreme way that he will like be the victim. Yeah. Right. Like this is about him. Like he had the affair. But he'll do anything to get his family back. Spoiler alert. He does not get his family back. Right. Now, one of the things that is said in

the documentary is that apparently JP was like, now that they're getting divorced, they're, you know, a lot of people like loved his wife. They're hemorrhaging members. And so what you see happen is him and Micah end up getting together. I don't know the ins and outs of their relationship. But you can see happening. So I like, I don't know who said what or who's idea, whatever. But like,

“I think at one point she's like, I want something good to come of this. And I wonder how much,”

like once we know later, how much control and how much coverage and manipulation he was using in their lives, how much he was saying, we have to. We could turn this into something good. Yeah. And what he ends up using later is like, is if she does anything, the whole church will fall apart because of her. So is there a moment when he's like, oh, we have to stay together because only way to stop this bad thing from happening. This affairs what is breaking apart the church,

only the marriage can bring it back together. So they end up getting together. And it is the perfect example of how everything seems picture perfect online. Like the proposal on the beach with the banner and she's over the moon and like they seem incredibly happy. Yeah. But I think even from day one, things were not what they seemed. No, like in my opinion, they almost couldn't be. We get a little bit more in episode one as well of like his, his sermons, right?

God seen everything you've done, everything you're going to do. And he's already for giving you wild foreshadowing spoiler alert. But it's like, it's fine. God has forgiven him. And then he has his other one that like, I like, I feel like most of my moments were just like listening to him preaching being like jaw on the floor. Because he has other memories says that when you commit adultery on God, he keeps pursuing you and loving you every single day. And he like in

“salvation to marriage. And this is at the point I think when Mike and I don't know how early she”

realized, but at some point is realizing, oh, he is running around on her just like he did before. The quote before, is this play about us? Yes. And so, but again, he's like using his, his pulpit, you just spewed this stuff. Okay. So the moment that everything I think changes and takes this very dramatic turn into where we will end up a couple of years from now is apparently she has this breast augmentation, which her family thinks maybe she got just because I have no idea why she chose

to do that. But there's this, I was going to say the insinuation, but it's pretty blatant in the

doc where they, they say or someone is saying that they, yeah, they basically, I was going to say

imply, but you're right, they say that the anesthesia, there was a reaction to the anesthesia, and she like began having like psychotic episode, she was going in and out of psychosis

“from the anesthesia, which I have like 400 questions about. Yeah, because we really to like prove this,”

we really get one video that he is taking of her where she, she isn't making sense. No, but it's strange because like there is another moment in that first episode where you can tell, she is taking a video and it's like, by the way, this is something that I've seen people do in really toxic relationships, is they'll like record themselves video audio to like play back later and prove to themselves what's happening. Yeah, because the other person will like make them feel

crazy, you know, gas like them. Right, and so like the first time we see this like moment,

she's not recording, she's just kind of talking to him and sounding off. And like you can't even really tell if she knows she's being recorded in that moment. Like the film is kind of like off the shots kind of off to the side and like she's not acknowledging like that she's being filmed at all, but the second time that you're talking about when she's filming herself, she does acknowledge like,

“hey, yeah, go ahead, double film me. Like if that's what you want to do, which I think is interesting”

that we don't have like her point of view. Her version, we have his, which is the like in top solution of every entire case and like the entire last few years of her life. We have his version because of him. Right. Like that's very, and very obvious. So at some point, like this is 1856 and this is like what I couldn't believe in the documentary. He has her involuntarily committed, yes, which I know you can do. And we see some of the medical documents

that do state that she's had like seemingly delusional. She's having like hyper religious speak, like there are things that indicate she has seemingly had some break with reality. How she got there? Why she got there? I have a, like I said, 400 questions about, but she gets out of there. They get married six days after she gets out. Which is like, but because you had a time plan, that was the other thing they said. Like once they like decided they were

going to be together apparently he gave her some kind of like like we're going to get engaged at this point. We're going to be engaged for this long and then we'll get married. And like her, I wonder if I'm going to have you commit it was like in the court. I would say her being institutionalized like could have thrown off his schedule and that was not going to be okay. Not today. The vows I thought were interesting. Did you clock those? She's, they, one they, she said that they had gone in with a plan

to give each other five promises. And she could only come up with one. And her promise was to give 100% of everything she does, 100% of herself, 100% of her encouragement. This is like a kind of broad, vote to him. Yeah, everything I am I give to you. His was like different? And I don't even know if we heard all of his. I don't know if we heard all of it, but I did take notes. I'll

strive to continuously lead you to Jesus. So she needs to be led. I promised to always support your

enthusiastic personality, which is like telling why he's interesting because he just had her committed for like kind of that. And it's not even like like I love it. It's like I'll support your enthusiastic personality, he'll remain faithful, loyal, encouraging, spoiler alert. No. And he's going to strive to love you the way Christ loved the church. He'll try. Right. That was like his best thing.

those are all like really vows. Yeah. But in the moment in that environment, those vows are

super normal. Those vows are super normal. I know. Like I, I, I, like, want to be like really clear that we are watching a documentary and we are looking at it like a decade or more out of the church. I don't think those vows would have given me any red flags. Not at the time. But her family was not thrilled because they, they had more background. But and this is where it, yet no, the vows by themselves don't. And to your point of the same thing with the sermons, it's like when you're

“in it and you're living it. I think this is what can be so hard to like spot abuse in someone else”

is like you from the outside get these like tiny moments where like something feels off or mushed in between everything else. You're like, well, everything else. Like what, that's just, let's just be like a weird them thing. Yeah. And maybe the vows aren't even that because like, I agree with you and the church, that wouldn't have registered. But like this is when after they get married, I think their friends start to get those weird moments. Like the, well, and her,

she, and I, I told a couple other people of this after I watched it, like I am so proud of her for how much she talked to her friends. Yeah. Because I mean, you and I see it all the time in episodes

where like abuse and coercion and manipulation is happening. And the person experiencing it never

says a thing. Yeah. And you find out from their diaries or you find out from their recordings. And you don't, you don't find out any of that until it's, it's too late. And like she, she was already doing that. But I can tell you from experience saying those things in that environment about your past, about your husband, the pastor, impossible, incredibly brave for her to say the things that she said to anyone, let alone we have like three of her friends at least plus her, plus her family.

Like she was saying things that like, I know are really, really scary to say in any environment

“from the work that we do. But like in that environment is honestly almost unheard of. I know.”

And I don't know how long it took her to get to that point. But like she does start to drop these

little things. Like if right at one point, she's like, I'm not allowed to like get out of bed before

him in the morning. And again, her friends are like, lots, that's kind of weird. But like your relationship, you guys do you? Yeah. And then it starts getting more concerning where she's like, we have sex every single day. Sometimes multiple times a day. And if it doesn't happen, he finds it somewhere else. Every day, which is like, hold her friends are like, girl, are you okay? Like, it's wild. And I think that like, I think she must have known that she was starting to share because

or this, I mean, we see this in so many abusive relationships. But like this idea that we get in the documentary where she talks about one of her friends talks about how she's not allowed to like hang out for more than like two hours or three hours. And he starts because he's are calling and calling you calling. And I think I was thinking about like what that is. It's like, I don't think it's that they want to be with them. It's like, in an hour, everyone's catching up,

right? Everyone's talking. But like, the more time you give them to share and share, it's comfortable level. It's like, when my dad would like let us rough house and he's like, okay, after 15 minutes, like, you're going to hurt yourself because you're going to get too comfortable. Like, you're going to like push the limits because you're in this place of like, you're in the zone. Yeah. And you will push yourself and push yourself until someone gets hurt. And like, that's essentially

the same thing, but emotionally. Like, she isn't so comfortable that she's going to open it up and it's going to expose him. Or she's going to also like, the longer you're out of the bubble.

“And you, you realize that what your life is weird. Yeah. That like, oh wait. That's not okay.”

You and your husband, your husband doesn't make you have sex with them every single day. Oh, your husband doesn't make you like, oh my god, maybe there is something like, I feel like it's wrong. But I'm being told it's not the affirmation that like, yeah. This is it's so much of why someone in relation, they'll give you whatever excuse they want to keep you away from people. It's isolation. But yeah, isolation is for a reason. Put the excuses aside. Go out,

go beyond the bubbles. What I would suggest to people is spend more time outside. And I think you realize what's happening inside is not right. And I think more and more that was starting to happen for her. Now, at some point, the relationship, like, it had to have looked good from the outside, right? Like, they're getting married. People are happy for her. I'm her family showing up to the wedding. The church seems to be doing like well. Yeah. But it starts like really deteriorating. And it

seems like that began to happen, at least the way they position in the documentary, because he starts pushing her more and more. Whatever was happening before in their marriage, he gets to this point where he's pushing her sexually. And like, I feel like this breaking point was when he was like asking her, like, you know, if you had to kiss any of your friends. And like,

I don't, I don't, I don't. But he pushes and pushes. And finally, she says a name of like a very

close friend of hers. And then he flips the way he put her and him in a group chat with that friend was psychotic. And it like the way he tried to like control the story of like, okay, I'm going to put you in this friend. And I'm going to talk about how you're crazy and you're leaving. And she's like, I just want to go see my sister. Like, what are you talking about? You're acting crazy. He's like, again, and it's all about God. Like, you're not being godly. No man would stand for this.

It was unbelievable. And she's starting to move more and more away. And this is when we get like the first, I don't know how much violence she was experiencing. But the first thing we see in the documentary

“is like, there's a point where he threatens to come to her sisters with a gun. I mean, I think what he”

says is I'm armed and ready in the documentary. I think they show an image of a gun. So I'm making I'm making the inference. And there is a talk in Affidivic later about him having her just in guns going shooting. So anyways, unbelievable. And so this is where we get that violence that's being done. Right, because up until now, it's like psychological or seriously, that's all we know about.

That's always that we've seen in the documentary at least. So we really end episode one at that point.

I was hooked. So episode two, we open with, you know, this like beautiful sermon where he is talking about obey those who have authority over you because no authority exists without God's permission. And again, this is the theme throughout. God has anointed him. God must have given him authority. And this is the thing that I'm like, I don't know why people believe. Because like also in the Bible, it's like, beware of false profit. And so like, I want to make sure that comes through.

“This, I watched this documentary the first time with your sister, which was, oh, did you really?”

Yeah, we watched it together. Because like, you can, like, you would text this before. We came into work the next day. And you were like, we, we're going to talk about this. You guys should watch. I'm like, well, why not? So we watched it together. Um, and that was something that we both like paused. And we're like, so this is kind of like an orabore. So snake that eats its own tail, right? It's like, you're anointed by God because God told you you're anointed. So you're anointed by God.

Because you're, like, it was really hard. I think this might be like a good time to like talk a little bit about what a non-nominal church is like, yeah, like, to a certain extent in this non-denominational church. That's all he needs, right? Like, is the belief that he is anointed by God to do this. In a lot of non-denominational churches, there isn't necessarily, and like governing body, that like specifically or deans or teaches and trains through a program. Like, there are a lot of

churches that are non-denominational that, like, are kind of just started by people and stop. And that's, and like, that I don't, I don't know, JP Miller is like, theological, seminary, educational history, but like, I guess, you know, come here way, like, but like, I know that like, we both kind of sat there and were like, you know, like, he's saying this, and he's because he's saying he's proving it, and that's really the only proof we have. And in this sort of culture that

is a lot of times, all there is and enough. I, yeah, so like, we, and we'll get to this a little bit later,

“because we, we kind of get to reveal that I think in episode two or three, that like, the structure”

of their church is just like, oh, I have that written down all of it. Brow, it's a business. Like, you own a business. Yeah, because we're going to get ahead of ourselves, but, yes, essentially, and I can talk more, I love it to that as well. But yeah, so it's not like, there's this like, this body of people who have decided that you are God has told Ben, God told no one but you, that you, and like, maybe there are people in your life who have supported that, like,

oh, that would have been calling. That would have been his father, which we can talk about. Which I would get to and your documents. So like, they're, they're like, like, people affirming that, like, feel of calling on his life. But like, as far as like, we're there, like, things he boxes he had to tick to get there, I would guess not really. So obey those have authority.

God only gives authority. A wife should always honor and respect her husbands.

And it, he basically is like, and it's not just honor or respect, because what all these become about is sex, sex. If you're not fulfilling your husband, someone else is going to. I don't know what it is that he, I think it's in this one. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you, like, don't meet the needs of your husband, Satan's going to come and give him 20 other options. But he ended the day and I'm like, wait, does Satan not come normally? Or it's like, and I think

later he basically is like, but then you don't have the self-control to like turn Satan away.

in like, but you're a child of God, so shouldn't you? Like, by your own, by your own teaching,

you actually should have that power. Well, not if your wife doesn't have sex with you that day. So, I just, like, this is what it's like. And again, we didn't grow up in a world where this was like that crazy to hear. No, and again, like, coming back to this is a tiny little grain of sand that is horrible amongst a thing, a bunch of stuff that is completely like, good, it is like a stretch, but like benign, right? Like not imminently harmful. And the other stuff, yeah, the other

stuff is like, oh, that kind of makes sense. So like this, he wouldn't just slip in some weird shit. Yeah, he's a bastard. And like episode two really becomes about what he's like forcing her to

“do to meet his sexual needs, because I think the whole episode is how it helped me, which I have never”

heard before. Oh, it's, what? It's like, it could be a translation for like literally Genesis in Adam and Eve. Like, in like the helpmate or helpmate is like what, like, in some translations is what Eve is to Adam. Like, it, it goes back to like the very core of like humanity and like how, like, biblical people in church. I don't, I don't want to say, biblical scholars, because there's like a lot of debate about it, but like, it is in translations as like, the wife is a helpmate or

helpmate. And like, that is the core of humanity and what partnership is in a lot of translations, and in a lot of denominations, and non-denominational churches, is like that is the wording,

and that is the thought process, and that is all the way back to the very first book of the Bible.

I was a pastor's wife for a long time, guys. Oh, God, do people know that? I feel like this is a good time for all that. I guess like, I'm like, I obviously, I've known you for 38 years. Wait, you want to give like a quick, quick history? Ashwin, I grew up in the same church. The church that we grew up in, my dad had been going to since he was 16, so I like grew up, my dad grew up in that church. My dad was an associate pastor, which, again,

we're, this was like what I would consider a mega church, especially in like the 80s and 90s. Yeah, I mean, they had, that televangelists, they were in other countries, they were like, there was a television network, there are church sat, like over 2000 people. Yeah, and so, yeah, your parents were deep in it, my dad worked there, I like lived on the property of the church, yeah, naturally. My mom was the worship leader, my entire childhood, my dad was like,

had usher, I started on a worship team when I was 11, and then was on a worship team, essentially until I left the church when I was like in my late 20s, I met my husband there, Justin grew up with us as well, his family started going there when he was like two, so we all

grew up together. We were on a worship team together. I thankfully cannot sing, so you'll never

get a picture of me on a stage. Like, let's get pictures of you guys working together. I was like,

“oh, no, no, no, no. She wasn't there. I, I think you still have like the little bit of the”

snobby worship team and you were like, no, no, she's not on the team, but we, our church went through a lot of turmoil around our high school years. There were church splits. There were pastors leaving. There was different versions of like the church we grew up in. I dabble in a little bit of all of them. I, um, I was gone. You were gone. Oh, no. Justin and I got married also really young, and we started going to a different church. We stayed there until I was like 29, I think,

28 or 29. Um, left for a lot of different reasons, but while we were there, I was also a worship pastor there. Um, he became ordained, and he, um, was an associate pastor there for, I think, four or five years. And so four, four or five years, he, I was, he was a pastor. I was a worship leader. I was a pastor's wife. Um, we like Justin, you guys. Justin's cool. Justin's cool. We're all good. We're all good. We're good. We're safe. We're all safe. Um, but like I, so I, as recently as

legitimately 10 years ago, like was, I could close, I can like close my eyes and put myself in solid rock church because I went to a church that was like based on like the videos and pictures

“that I've seen, like not that rough, not far off. Like this, honestly, like the stage looked”

really similar to the one that I was on most recently. Like the size of the church looked really similar. Um, the comparisons, especially as I get into like the structure and like what happened, it's kind of wild. So it's not like, I, I, I, I think what I was seeing in there and why I felt so like, oh my god, I, like, I was in this church. It's because of things that happen. It's you don't want to know about. Yeah. It's a one for one, just even the structure and like the,

I mean, kind of unbelievable. Oh, also speaking of, this is back to the like your, your own authority.

like doctor, whatever, whatever. And you're like, you know, he wasn't like, he didn't actually

have like a PhD or anything. And I was like, wait, what? You're like, it was a couple of years ago. She's like, so doctor was in it, because like we also called him doctor, like all the time.

“And you're like, so doctor was in a doctor. And I was like, cool, where are you? Where are you?”

You're like, she made his own Bible college and made himself a doctor. And I was like, you got to be freaking kidding me. Wait, how do we? I went off on like a tangent about my Bible translations. And then had to tell people that I helped me. Yeah. So in this episode, the next wild part that we got. So all this is like very much focused on like her meeting his sexual needs. Do you want to talk

about the testosterone? This is not like so many levels, including like, as a vocalist and

worship leader. Like, she's like on stage, she's struggling. She's losing her voice. Her hair is falling out. And everyone's like, oh, she's just like going through it. Well, because also it's like, I'm on, you know, I'm on some meds. And we, we know he has been very open about like, oh, she has these mental health struggles. I'm sure she was too. And, you know, we all know she had been committed by him before.

“And so you kind of think. And I think they do this strategically in the documentary. You're like,”

think you're like, oh, it must be had to do with all that. I don't know what, I don't know. I mean, even say like, at some point in time, like, some of the medications like she's concerned about weight gain and like, she's feeling self conscious because of some of the medication she's on. And you're like, oh, okay. And then you see her lose her voice. And then someone that was on the team with her and one of her close friends was like, all of a sudden, like her range was gone. Like,

when her voice came back, it was like, she had a completely different voice. And I was like, like, I know like when I'm sick, like my voice can change. And I can lose like, especially when I was singing a lot. Like, I could lose like a couple of like high notes or low notes, whatever. No, she lost her range because she was taking testosterone. And her voice was like physically lowering from taking testosterone because he wanted her to take testosterone. So she could keep

up with him sexually. Him. I like, hi, this is the point where I was like, I mean, I hated him throughout. But I was like, you got to be like the abuse, she had some point is like, I am physically sexually emotionally financially like all this type of abuse. And I, I think it gets lumped into physically, but the medical abuse. Yeah. The way that the medical system was used, they talk about him like withholding her message. I just say like he was, it's, it's mentioned early when they

talk about her initial diagnosis. But like, he like writes to her and you see like a snippet of that like email or letter or whatever, where he's like, you know, this is a lot for me to bear to, you know, like I am now responsible for that 50 to 60 years. I was responsible for like making sure you take your meds and like, I didn't ask you right, didn't ask you to do that. But it seems like you're making that your job. And like in making that him his job, he also uses it as another tool of

manipulation and coercion. And the fact that it's like, if it's going to be his job, he's going to make it work for him too. Oh. So she could do it every day. How how many years was she with him? Right. So now he's injecting her with hormones. And this is the point, we skipped this early on because they make it make a light mention of it. So not only is he forcing her to do this, when he makes a parody song about her losing her voice. I mean, all the parody is we're honestly like incredibly

crammed. But that one was especially horrific. Especially when you like realize that it's not she's doing it. Like it's not like she wanted to do like you forced her to do this thing that she doesn't want to do to do sexual actually doesn't do things that she doesn't want to do. And then

“makes her sing about something she doesn't want to do. And yeah, and then you have to like”

joke about it because she can't like I say that whole parody song thing was so weird and don't worry, it comes back again. Awesome. So this brings me to text message game, which is which is where I got dropped in initially at 926 p.m. with the text message which I have extra stories about. So

there is this woman who is a pastor at their church as well. She got brought in when the first

affair happened like with Micah, right? He like brings in this other pastor. Yeah, the church needs stability. They need somebody who's just like like a seasoned pastor who's going to like help them whether this storm, usher them through these trying times. And so it seems like she's she's there for a while. Well, she one day is at home, but it sounds like she has like a work for a church phone and out of nowhere. Sounds like this was not a normal thing. The work phone starts blowing up

Now she's like JP is in bed with Micah at the time he's like I mean based on like based on the

“messages while he's instructing Mark to go like pick up this other young woman from the airport”

because apparently she is coming to see him. Which first introduce this Mark's role. Like I mean, we know he's his best friend. He's his best man in the wedding. Right. But I have a lot of questions about Mark, his loyalty to JP, what he's willing, why he's willing to do this. He's someone I'm very interested in. But this is when the the other pastor realizes like oh my god, this thing this thing that I thought had stopped, the reason I came in because it had stopped to fix things

has never stopped. Which I this is where I texted you. I was like I will believe in God again

if like all of his energy can be directed into like exposing dirty pastors because this is not the first time I've seen something weird like this happened. So there are two other stories. One of them personal and then I don't know if you've ever heard the story. So there is this episode of and you know I'm stuck with the podcast portrayal. Oh yes. So there is oh shoot hang on I got to find her name. There is an episode that I'm obsessed with. I've

listened to it like three times. Oh Tracy is the episode from September of 2025 and her whole betrayal story is about this church in the south in like the 90s and Tracy's a fake name you don't get the real names. But it's I call it the Angel Nathan story because her story has to do it

basically like she finds out her husband who is the pastor was like having this affair because

this anonymous Angel Nathan starts sending people in the congregation like letters and he starts out

“with the pastor and he's like you need to admit to this like come clean to your congregation and like”

we're good otherwise I've got recordings of you and this other woman that I'm going to release an Angel Nathan does. So like it's another one of these like how did we get this this next one is less exposing pastors yeah I have so many thoughts on that. Less exposing pastors and so when my dad worked in a church in South Carolina. Oh interesting brief time in our life we lived in South Carolina my there was like there's like freak thing where someone in the church was like talking

with your shit about my dad but like the the phone lines got crossed or something the machine the voice no machine started recording and like it recorded the whole thing so I don't know what like magical stuff is going up but there is someone it's like the opposite of you messing everything tech up yeah God is here and I like actually make tech work weirdly he's like not in my house no no no no no no so I am like all for this but so this is when she this is when the other pastor finds out like oh

you are full of shit like you've done a great job at putting on the show making people think that you are sincere and none of it has been real she can like see through the mess and I don't know what's unclear is like how many affairs he's had over the years because it's not just one or two based on every implication and the entire documentary yes and keep touch of my little my cute little papers back here it seems like there is a lot happening and this is just this is like

“it's not like at first I think it's easy to believe like oh he's got these two lives that are”

conflicting right he's he's as he says struggling with lust or whatever and what you I think see as you get in episode two in episode three is it really feels like this entire church it's not a guy a guy who's conflicted the church in the organization all of that feels like it is made to allow him to just be a demon right I would say because this is the part that like I had made some notes on because the pastor who like gets this magical mystical spiritual sink she does what I

think anybody in that position would do and she calls the elders of the church which like the elders would be like in theory not necessarily a governing body but like a body of people in the church who are like represent the people of the church yes and I think she says like they are they are representing the congregation like they are the ones who like in churches that I've been in like they've been the ones who have been like called to like hey like we think this pastor

the ones who kind of act in a way as a governing body different churches that's a different ways

denominations specifically have like boards and actual governing bodies non-denominational again kind of a free for all but like I know I was like wait it's not just one guy like I thought we like what my version of church does it have a governing oh I mean they are churches had like a board but it was all week it was like all people colluding with each other to a certain extent until they stopped anyway um but this one like these elders while they were like representatives of the congregation

we're not a governing body in that they had zero power they were just like for sure essentially like like not even to support the pastor just to make it look like he had a governing body almost

right it's to like it's to make it's why it's like it's bananas to me and now we're getting into like

financials and stuff but like like like when I started season of justice so like the non-profit

“has to submit its financials like every year to be a non-profit like you have to know where”

your money is coming from exactly where it's going to like like how are you using your funds how much of the funds are just sitting there who's getting paid what what are your expenses all of that is known it is wild to me that is not necessary for churches as a congregant who is tithing I assume like uh giving time the way they use volunteers I would want to know and I don't know why more people don't kind of demand this of their churches especially these

mega churches where is it going I would like to as vaguely as possible remind you that the first

time our church went through something major it was because people didn't want those things to come the light really yeah like people were a governing body was saying that the church essentially was not functional at the size that it was for like the space that it was in and like the staff

“that it had which like obviously affects you quite a lot or would have affected you quite a lot”

and when they ask like okay like what does that number need to be like can we have like a financial campaign where we can tell the members where we are and like let them know that this is the state that the church is in um that was not something that everyone was comfortable no being being publicized interesting um there was a lot of other things that went into that but like that was like uh something that contributed to like why the pastor that we had at the time

no longer was at the church and like we can talk about that more was like actual names and stuff but like not on like oh I mean I knew it was like about money and stuff but like I thought it was uh yeah okay follow up conversations yeah so like off bike but uh that's kind of like what was I was like so surprised and frustrated and not surprised at all about when she did go to the elders was like hey

“this guy's going off fix it and they're like I can't do anything hands are tied yeah sorry”

too bad so sad now then we so we get into this idea that like okay she's like well I'm out yeah church is still his still yours what is he doing with this church what is he what is he doing as far as like affairs go now I don't know we have no idea who this young woman was who is coming into town in me in because she's coming from an airport I assume it is not she's not from around here Susie Skinner who we will talk about next yeah so Susie Skinner is his next alleged affair

Susie of course Mary and in the congregation and in the congregation she starts going to the church I doesn't sound like her husband was really going to the church I don't know how much autonomy her husband had right so they they met because she was like his like he was in physical therapy and she had had like an accident yeah where he had lost a lot of mobility wheelchair bound wheelchair bound he hired her or like they met in physical therapy or she was like helping him in

some way and they hit it off and got married yes so she decides to start going to this church and again in my blue those things were he like come sometimes whatever but she's like she was really really really involved yeah and this is the affair like micro clearly finds out about this and gives JP multiple ultimatums multiple chances to end it which she's telling people he does not and I don't think they were being secretive about it because

right like uh Micah's brother ends up touching them and he says in the documentary where they're like holding hands and he's like oh but he like he like confronts them and because they're not being secretives somehow it gets back to Susie Skinner's husband Chris and he also like again they're

pastor has a crush on her so I don't know how what she's framing I don't know what he has

“experienced but at the same time Chris is sisters in the documentary and she's like he's feeling like”

his care is like oh yeah it's like lacking it's not getting showered as much like Susie is clearly distracted by something at that time and so he makes it a point to go to the church once

on day confront the pastor basically like leave my wife alone and I don't know it doesn't

exactly how long but like weeks a month and we also don't know what happened when he went to the church we get nothing about that we just know that he his plan was to go to the church and confront JP which I have a feeling the only people who would be in that room or JP him if they allowed their wives Mike is no longer here to talk about it and Susie isn't going to talk about it for reasons we'll get to anyway so we know that Chris at least has intentions to go confront JP

and at some point in time after he states that intention whether he makes a discharge talks to him whether what the conversation is regardless after that point he dies how does he die if he drowns at the bottom of his apartment complex or like community swimming pool he's in his wheelchair and it goes in by some accident by some intention they did their foul play is not suspected

in his case but this was the second text message I sang when I said JP was first at the scene

the first people to show up the first people that Susie called JP and Mike together yeah but they show up before Chris's family has any idea that he's died which I get I it's the pastor of a church that's I mean that's like that's the thing that I like kind of butt it up against once I watched it reading your text was like I don't not get it in that environment

“we're like I would us a thousand percent still call my family but I think my family's pastor”

someone of comfort someone of like outside the circle but close enough for like guidance but I don't know if the one but like the the the pastor that your husband just confronted because that's where I get hung up on it because that's different yeah this is where when um mad

first was like hey I think maybe we should cover this case because I'll give every everyone I think

already knows that spoiler alert episode three Susie Skinner and JP get married yeah I was like so you're telling me that her husband dies and his wife died and now they're married and and everyone's okay with it what does it and that's like she's got a girl so like okay okay okay so we kind of get they touched on it so briefly and I I had been reading some articles and stuff like that dug into his death a little bit and it was like I guess he had been like supposedly allegedly making complaints

to the community about like they're not being like proper access for people like in wheelchairs to be able to get to the pool why the pool why that way was it in accident was it intentional because he's not being taken care of he feels like the one thing he has is like no one knows as far as I know so I I don't believe he left a note or told anyone so we're left to just there's just another strange thing in a case full of strange things the strangest thing of all though was the like

service about him which I don't know if it happened before after he died right so it's it's kind of confusing the documentary because they cut it really close to the funeral service for Chris yeah like it's not part of it this the stage is completely different he's wearing a different outfit

“but I think it was a different service I don't know if it's again jump on before after but we”

don't know when it was yeah you want to see what he says I don't have the direct oh well I just have hot mama quote on my notebook yeah if this guy can get this hot mama in a wheelchair you have no excuse I literally wrote what like like I think that's a moment when meaningless I literally just like pause and I was like let's just sit with that for a minute what maybe that was the moment that he was like I think this guy might be coming for my wife like especially if again we don't know

when it happened in time especially if that happened prior to Chris's death so also like you don't want people to be self-deprecating but like you're being a super yes a super I can't I don't think

it's pretty obvious what's going on and so this is when Micah gives him yet another ultimatum but she doesn't leave she does this contract which I find heartbreaking because this happens all the time I've seen this happen and I don't really understand it I think like

so she basically says like makes this list where it's like hey if any of this stuff happens I'm out

I'm out I know she told him that before if you do it again I'm out it's the line gets crossed the line gets crossed well I mean honestly the expectation is if you are in a committed relationship with someone that's your promise and you have like shared goals and outcomes for the relationship none of that needs to be set yes that's just the expectation and like the social contract between two people who love each other but it's like there's list of five things that's like if any of

this happens again like the first thing is like you know she gets the house he promises to go on marriage retreats they're going to do counseling weekly he's going to honor her in any way with

“anything anytime it says he'd even be willing to adopt a kid if that's what she wants smiley face”

I saw that the thing I the thing I can appreciate about what she was probably trying to do is one of the ways she was being controlled was financially if she left as a pastor's wife who had been in the church that she was 18 who had no career outside of the church she was financially destroyed she had nothing so this point number one where it's like I want something written down I mean this is document one of counted but like I think she felt this was some kind of protection

for her and so like I am sympathetic to that because I think part of me at first and I was like

like what the fucking piece of paper he doesn't care about your piece of paper marriage or to that he doesn't care about any of that why do this I think it's really easy to be that but I'm like she's trying I think she knows it's going to happen again and I think what she's trying to do is build herself any sort of life raft she can yes for afterwards because she knows it's going to

“happen again she knows it's going to be hard and I think everything she was like scared of and”

anticipated is ended up like coming to fruition oh this is the moment to where we get that like weird video of them in the car where he's like speaking in third person and he's like out of third person by the way I like I listen was like why was he speaking in third person when we watched it together and I was like oh yeah and then when I watched it again I was like not all of the time because he's like some of the first lady of the church and she's like who's the first lady I was like

you're the first lady and I was like she like and he's like she loves the pastor I was like what is happening right now I don't even know what that what it to me that was a little bit like the crying on the grass video where I was like actually can we talk about that more yeah I was like I need I would love if someone could post the whole video drop give us some context of like drop this happened what like yeah anyway I don't know and I don't know if it's in that video or somewhere

else but like we get this idea and again this is him being the victim and I think he he became an expert at manipulating the people around him but like only in that bubble like the congregation the people who like had his same world you a world you that he built but he makes his name makes himself the victim because you know why would you do this like you have everything and he's like I was scared you were gonna leave me somehow it's like her fault that he continues to do this and I like I

only reiterate it because I think this is such a common tactic with abusers is to make themselves the victim over and I actually think they do see themselves as the victim yeah maybe not carte blanche maybe not everybody but like I think a large part percent of them for sure yeah like I don't I think there are people who are just blatantly boys and they know it but I think

“there are other people who I like the best way I can describe it is like lie so much they start”

they start losing the truth like they no longer see the reality of like who isn't is not the

victim yeah the reality is completely broken by like the lies that they have not only told

other people but they've told them so many times that they've begun to believe the lies themselves in that video she's like what would you do to like give me back her keep keep me and I thought his answer was so interesting he says that I would put myself in a psych ward until they release me and I was like oh to you that's the worst possible punishment the thing that you've already done to her yet that is the thing and I was like how telling the thing that you keep doing

psych ward because my god can you imagine so the rest of the episode really is again we're diving into like his insatiable sexual appetite and I would like to point out that we also hear a lot of these stories from Mike's friends which again like I would like to stress this is huge especially the stories that she that like they tell towards the end of this episode which are harling in a way that I was not expecting I was not prepared for it like we get a lot more of his like preaching in

this too I have a quote he says there's incredible danger in unmet needs a fantastic marriage is

simply this my needs are being met today everything is about like his needs being met when your husband wants sex God does not send an angel from heaven to take care of that like basically it's your freaking job and he says the sin that has most the sin that has the most horrifying results in

“your life is sexual immorality and he says denying sex leads to sexual immorality so like deny sex”

is leads to one of the greatest sins oh and this is where he was like don't deny sex and then Satan won't be able to tempt you because you're lack of self control and then oh he's like a man doesn't want to be rejected more than once unless you repent for it his heart gets heart and I was like boo your heart heart is not the hard thing of you that I'm worried about right now like what is happening no totally and then my last quote from this like these like sermons is when he was like

what he said for now or at least for now the only reason a man would not want to touch or hold a woman is that man because he isn't like her the only reason isn't like her her mouth is because of her mouth girl we talk for a living yeah I was shocked like I I think that up until this point

“when we talk about the sexual abuse I was thinking the abuse of him demanding four times a day five”

times a day sometimes when they talked about every single day and if not with her then someone and

I that's terrible abuse but what is described next is that he basically forces her into encounters

with random people that he haze those people whether that's touching her one of her friends describes like him paying someone to finish on her and like the way she said that my good scribe does like she didn't have enough like soap in the world there was nothing she could do to make herself feel clean after that in a documentary they show her like journal writings and one time she says at one point he picked up a couple of unhoused people for a three some it's like this was about

degrading her controlling her I was just about say like I when I was watching with the list I was like

“this is not inherently sexual for him anymore this is him exerting his control and his power”

and showing her how much he can do to her and she has she can do nothing about it and a lot of we we moving to episode three and we get this like a little bit of backstory that leaves so many questions be answered that pile right come back to the pile but there's this allegation that like maybe J.P. was abused by his father and that is what again when it comes to like him being evicted like that is what has caused him to be the way that he is and so we we hear that like his

father who was also a pastor had gotten into some trouble maybe in the past but it was like very very glossed over like it was a quick like snippet in the show and then they kind of moved on so it's one of the things that I like dug into more later but really episode three is about her leaving which we know is the most dangerous time in a person who's being abused life we get a

little bit of the timeline like this this finally brings us up to the actual like day and by this

point she has moved out now what I found out is that she had apparently threatened divorce before or he would be even filed but then like he convinced her to undo it which is interesting because of some of like the asset stuff and what was happening convince her to undo it then he goes to this other period where the stalking the harassment doesn't stop I mean this is refining out that he is putting tracking devices on her he's following her slashing her tires slashing her tires and again like

the you know there's like 53 calls at one point I mean it is non stop she ends up moving out she's going to live as somebody else he has her committed again and at this time they're kind

posting as her on social media to make it seem like hundreds of pictures they say of them together

making everything seem like beautiful and wonderful like creating this image and they don't really talk about the other stuff like what was he doing with her stuff why did he take her stuff like in the documentary as I was watching as I go this is just about control I think it was about something else that I'll get to but he has her committed she gets out again because it sounds like

“the doctors even realize like I this is more of like the narrative yeah which I that's what I again”

when I go back to like what is this 1856 like back in the day when my wife's hysterical just like lock her away how and like you might talk about this later but like in the documentary they do confirm that she does get a diagnosis of a form of bipolar correct this is what I was like a little I think so because I want to say there is at least one medical document that they show in the documentary that states that but what I don't know like house what the documentary is there

I know that's where I was that's where I I am always so cautious especially in something like this

of like oh we saw one shot so many times you can if someone gives you a medical history to say this person has bipolar and and and that that is not verified now she's in these facilities which should be verified and I mean on the flip side like I'm adopted my kids are adopted medical forms are a lot of fun for us because like I'm sure there are things in my medical history that I simply do not know about that can never be verified and I'd have to fill the format as

“best as I know yeah and like that's how it is for my kids too and on the flip side like you can”

also write that there are issues yeah when no issues exist and that's where I like I without digging into her medical records the way that her family spoke on the documentary it seems like they believe there was something they also supported some sort of diagnosis yeah but but they're I mean they're very open in that like what led her to that and like what are the contributing factors that if she had like these diagnosis like let yeah let you get it so this brings us to

she filed she dismissed she is now done done super done and this is where we meet my new hero Regina Ward Regina Ward I also loved her I'm so glad she's here I think everyone loves Regina Ward because she is her lawyer and we get her and she's like uh I don't like anyone that tries to take advantage of I think she said the week the week the poor and I was like she's heard divorce attorney and she's not putting up with anything and what she says

Regina Ward heart heart heart heart I said she made the hero well so she on behalf of Micah files and JP gets served on April 25 two days later is when Micah dies and the timeline this is this is the crux of the case it's like everyone did she do it her family alleges in the documentary like they don't think that someone else wasn't involved like they they cannot let that go but everyone the police have ruled it as suicide the um sheriff's office put out this like nifty

proof power point that that has been shared with everyone that in their eyes explains everything so

“what we have is that day she's supposed to go to work I like noon that's what Diana says in”

the documentary Diana's the woman she's living with what I would love is like verification of that what time did her shift start because what I find so interesting is that why put on your uniform if you're not going to and like she immediately does not go to work she leaves at the time and you can 1138 you can correct me at any point time she leaves at a time where it's like oh depending on how far away her work is like that's appropriate time to show up for a 12 o'clock shift

so uniform that 1138 like a doorbell cam leaves her apartment 12 12 she pulls into the pawn shop this pawn shop is where the gun is purchased now what I think is interesting is I mapped her apartment to the pawn shop it's a nine to ten minute drive but it's 34 minutes before she pulls in so I don't I don't know where she was why like was there another stop was it did you map where she

worked I didn't do that was did yeah did she just like go to work first and then but it's weird so

but she gets she pulls in she is at the counter I mean she knew exactly what she was going in for she's at the counter at 12 13 12 34 she's leaving the lot now again I don't know did it take time I assume they have to look at her I hope they had to look at her ID to buy this gun but like

in the direction of where she'll ultimately be found so it's 40 minutes from Dix to where the

“flock camera is 127 she's at a gas station and that like all kind of lines up and then it's like 39 to”

44 minutes from the gas station to the park so I was like trying to do the math of like when she leaves the gas station like does she go directly to the park yeah and it she should arrive if she goes right away and this is like per the other calculation she's driving a little bit faster but if she goes exactly like the speed limit she should be getting to the park and it takes a five minute walk from where her car was to the look like the coordinates where she was found she should be at the

coordinates where she's found at 221 the 911 call comes in at 254 there's time now there is a witness

who has come forward or came forward later that was like I heard crying before I heard a shot but we know the shot comes after she calls 911 so like I just again there's like missing time is this I'm sitting in my car I'm building up the courage I'm sitting with what I'm about to do or is it something else her family has wondered I just what they like say in the documentary

“like was she lured there because also why go it seems like I think something that they say in”

the documentary is like why here like why would you go all the way out here so far that you

have to call 911 to make sure people know where you are I thought what I thought was interesting

was it was like right over the state line like it's the north she's in North Carolina which causes maybe jurisdictional issues but I like if what you want is for your family to find you and for this to be easy why there because she does take the steps to help her family find her like she calls 911 so the coordinates are like tracked you hear her voice on the 911 call she sounds someone open starts with it I look the most of the call that I could find the most amount

is like two minutes and thirty seconds so it also isn't just like hey here I am about to do this

“hang up it's it's two minutes of her trying to figure out where she was not the very end she says”

what she's about to do and apparently hangs up before they can like they don't hear a shot or anything like that now they bring up some stuff in the doc that I thought was interesting which is like they find her body away from the shell casings they also mentioned two spent shell casings which I can't find a ton of stuff about but I'm like the the witness hears one shot she has one shot like she didn't shoot herself twice right where did this other one come from it is it like obviously

then you have all the questions like are they casing some of the same type of ammunition like do they belong the same gut like that is not in exactly is not in the police is pdf the other thing um what is in here I actually want to show you is a picture of the inside of her car and there is something that stood out to me the same thing with like why are you putting on your work uniform if this is your plan for the day she also packed her lunch so sandwich like it's a fresh sandwich

in a Ziploc bag isn't that weird that's really weird these are the things that her family it's not making sense to them so naturally when this happens her family is immediately suspicious because her sister one of her sister says that Mike said it if I am found with a bullet in my head I didn't do it jp did she is found with a bullet in her head that that is like why say that and then do that too so they have a ton of questions knowing that she the two days before had filed for

divorce the church is gonna break apart everyone said if the church broke apart again everything that he had built it was it was done done this is like a very great on crime genki question but they didn't address it in the dock that jp alibi like i'm sure this is like somewhere in like the power point but like they don't touch on that at all at all in the documentary which I found really strange and like it took everything in my being not to Google because I knew you were already working

on this so they don't talk about it at all except for when the reporter from news nation has like the one sit down with him and he's like I was at like the sovereign of the sporting thing like every 100 people saw me there that that Saturday well in this his timeline that we get from the police power point evident power point is from Friday the 26 to Saturday the 27 so

eyewitnesses so his claim that a bunch of people are there checks out on Friday though yeah

a bunch of people are there and on Saturday so this is the day that she buys the gun and goes up

“to the park what they have the only thing that they've included is that they have him driving”

back to mortal beach where they live and they have flock cameras of his truck now if you look at those like pictures the windows are like blacked I cannot see anything now did I meticulously map the coordinates and the time for every single flock camera thing I did I figured you was and where is sleep last night did you where this truck was is nowhere like it wasn't near the park like he couldn't have gotten the last flock sighting of the truck was at 222 and it's too far away

to get to the park okay so the truck is not there what I find strange is that if they're saying

he has such a solid alibi what they're not including for Saturday the actual day that matters is any phone data any like was anyone with him on that Saturday in that truck when did he get home who saw him after like to me this is all really important stuff and and even beyond him the other people connected to him yeah like like that he's the only person talked about in this document which I'll find interesting we've we've mentioned him a few times and had questions but like

where is mark and I do think that like mark not mark whatever there were other people who

“Micah felt like she was being followed by like it wasn't just JP so I think this is meant to tell”

everyone like there's nothing to see here but to me this like I have a lot more questions who would have it also doesn't include is like Micah's stuff because what it shows is oh she you know like look how to get to the pawn shop she looked up national parks near me but it doesn't say what time those searches happened it doesn't say what other things happen around there like what calls she is making who she was in communication or even like did she like sitting her parking lot in the

parking lot at her apartment like where she was staying right where was she for those work when she Google the pawn shop was she still at the pawn shop when she Google parks like they have the hesitation when she do like there's we know that she's in these different places but are these

“searches happening at those different places or was this like a long plotted out thing and I think”

again I think people would say well you know we're just worried about it all the evidence proves to only being her why are we even talking about this well then my question is why was he trying to collect like all her immediately the woman she was living with I loved because she seemed so sweet yes and when as soon as JP called was like I'm just gonna come pick up her stuff she's like I'm not sure if I'll be home essentially I think called her siblings was like get over there and get it

and like I want her Bible I want her writings her journals like and that I could meet you you can write that off is like oh that's her husband he just wants her things it's when he calls the counselor she had been seeing was like just give me notes can I get I was like that's not that's something you call like Alyssa like pause she's like he can't do that because hippa and I was like I bet you anything she's a biblical counselor she is she said what it said and I was like

I was like she could hand them over and then she's like well because I'm a biblical counselor I don't need no you know you know that works too that's when I was like oh boo you're trying and the way and then he called well and then we get some of our best quotes from our new hero while

inductee when he called we got the sermon first yes the second she dies but she's notified

on a Saturday and on Sunday he's like I'm still gonna preach and not only did he preach he preachers the whole sermon I didn't as usual I didn't realize he didn't tell them till the end yeah and he is acting totally normal totally fine he's on the piano having the time of his life they don't worry do their entire parody song about oh what was it like not finding something till the middle of your life or like oh in the middle of my life I finally found what I was searching for

now it's like what was that and then at the very end he's like we're not gonna have an alter call we're not going to pray with you guys at the end instead I'm going to announce that my wife like I had died it was self induced I don't want you guys to the questions please ask questions I

this happened and like this is this is the point and Justin graciously reminded me that he was

the one who was like everything this sermon when this case initially happened and this is when I remember seeing this case pop up was like what is he doing because like again like I've been in these services like when there's something to say like you you do have to like time it well but this is bonkers the fact that he was on the stage doing music that morning the fact that he was on stage

“teaching that morning I think this also talks a lot to like speaks a lot to like the structure of”

the church like no one was going to tell him he couldn't do this yeah and so he got up and did the

entire thing because he he had to get out he got out of his narrative and then he proceeded to do

that with everyone the text messages he was sending people were I mean you like the people talk about all the time catch a liar when they're like overexplaining where he's like she is past I've been telling her for months like oh her family got involved and like oh no and also there's a moment where like you see him you see some of the text messages that he's sending to like her friends or like people in their circle and it's the same like he's comping pasting because he can't keep telling

“different like that's the only way he can keep his lives straight right like it was it was just like”

so calculated so he is used to manipulating everyone in his circle like he can play the victim he has

them down but not her he cannot do that with this oh who as an attorney takes the call oh my god I love her so good he calls and is like hey you were I think you were her lawyer so and before he could even continue with his bizarre request she goes hmm let's stop right there you probably have the exact quote I don't I'm a paraphrase but she's like you don't think she hired me you know she hired me because you got served force papers two days ago so let's just start off with the truth

yeah and and that that's when I was like she is my new I want to be her when I grew up she is my new hero and he's like yeah you know what I do call I think I did see your name and then he's like I oh he says clearly by the way you've been talking to me you've gotten one side of the story so this is when he's like I I'm gonna get her on my side that does not happen and so when that doesn't work he goes into the tears it's like the same tears that we got on the ground which distinctly

I had this moment where I was like oh I I've seen this before and I want to let I want to play your clip because I I made myself chuckle okay so this is him to her so it's like but um have you seen winner loose no but you've talked about this show so many times it's a kid showing Disney I think is one of the best kid shows it's made in forever and we get this moment soon it's like I heard that I was like so he tries the tears the tears don't work he turns

those off to be clear like coming back to like why he's calling Regina Ward like is divorce attorney is because he's like I really need every single thing that she ever gave you supporting why she wants to divorce me yes like he's like just get just why just hand me her file and just like which is an insane thing to think what happened like but attorney client privilege much but yeah I think he's still thought he had a lot of authority because they were still married before she died

which actually did give him a lot of authority there's been a ton of legal stuff since now luckily she didn't turn her file over to him she turned it over to the FBI along with and she downloaded like hundreds five hundred and eleven sermons and that is when I was like you I love you

“and that's how I mean that's how we get this like treasure trove in the documentary and get such”

like real pictures of who Michael was in life who J.P. is like what he talks about in his sermons so that it is a little bit how the documentary leaves off it's that there is some kind of FBI investigation we hear from people guess I've been talked to I do know the FBI got and I don't know why for sure but jurisdiction because we're talking about two separate cases like it's not

the course their investigation and then for cyber stalking and those are still ongoing because he was just arrested in like December 2025 yeah and they did a search of his home so again all like computers phones like all of the things that I'm I'm wanting I feel exists somewhere in evidence yes now is there anything else that you want to talk about before I get to like my fun things I don't know

“if you want to talk about the news nation sit down where he brings out the binder of his evidence evidence”

which like evidence for what's there's that weirdness but it wasn't like hey I kept all her medical records it's like this is my evidence and also like pretty those things in those plastic sheet protectors is a pain and they asked he put work it was I did even notice that they were in sheet protector they're in like those plastic slips for me it was the moment he does the same thing right where he like tries to cry but then I love this guy gets these like what's going on like

he's like I'm not going to like call it off just because you're crying like we're going to like like the other guy interviewing him is like there's something like your face is doing essentially so but then he wouldn't he's like when he has or anything you would have done differently his reaction is like that's a really good question that's a really good question it's anger

and then he goes I would never involve her family and any of her mental health problems yeah

okay out of all the things you could have done I mean annoying what you did to her like the blanket statement of us like I wish I could have been a safe place for her I wish I could like you could have done any sort of like blanket generic statement and like no one would have batted and I but you come out with that yeah I mean I could there's like a million more things I want to talk about but what I want to talk about more is that stack of paperwork you just picked up

yeah I want to so this stuff is known it's not like I uncovered this but for length purposes

“or legal purpose I don't know why Netflix didn't include what I think is a handful of things”

that I found really interesting so one of the biggest things that I as I was watching this I kept waiting for right like I'm like you get these sit-downs of people and I'm like when are we

getting his first wife when are we getting out like we get nothing I understand not having anything

about his kids in documentary like they have nothing but I'm like she's like very silent in this so I was like I mean either she's you know without knowing anything I was like is she still like deep in this world is she like scared I'm like a man like this couldn't have been an ideal husband one moment and then a completely different person than X and probably isn't like a joy to cope parent with yeah so she has filed an affidavit back in 2024 so this is when I think they were

working out some like custody arrangements when in 2024 because that's also the year that Michael died

“this is me so this is she's basically saying this is a right after”

Michael dies she's like I don't feel safe and and some of it is a little bit like hey he's getting all these threats too right um I don't want my my kids around that but in doing so she has to talk about all the concerns that she had um one of the things that I found really interesting is that she started in 2015 as his assistant to pastoral duties which is the same kind of role that he placed Michael in were they already married at the time I don't know the year that they got

Mary it's not in this document I have to look it up so in this she alleges it says um it's number seven the affidavit JP told me that in addition to his affair with Michael he had employed prostitutes and been sexually inappropriate with several underage female members of our church he blamed his immoral sexual behaviors on the sexual abuse that he experienced for years by his father Wayne Miller she says that when she found out about this like this these minors she actually went to the police

and she's they're basically like nobody's gonna believe you because these minors don't want to come

forward you're like you're divorced from this guy you're talking about custody like that's not gonna like hold up so she's like I I couldn't do anything but I did try to report like I wouldn't have paused for like a second and be like minors coming forward with abuse is already incredibly difficult I feel like I've said that's a lot like everything is very difficult in this circle where your value is placed in your area where your value is placed on your body

and how much you are untouched coming forward is it's how they it's how they keep you quiet that was impressive like as it doesn't matter that you didn't want right as difficult as

marking yourself dirty even if you were assaulted and you kicked and treated like you know

“whatever they believe is no you are still less than yeah whether it's said in those words or not”

it is heavily employed and so like that's devastating she talks about an occasion when she was picking up one of their kids that there were holes in their walls there were hinges off the doors and pieces of paper taped to the wall with negative affirmations about Micah now he had like said her text that were like oh I just you know Micah punched those holes in the walls I'm not like it's not true anything but I'm like oh did she also write those like terrible things

about herself doubt it and she also has in here when I talk about guns and stuff and knowing

that like he was at least using them there's a point in here which she says that he informed me that he was getting into buying guns and shooting then I read something that I thought was

“interesting as a convicted felon he is not allowed to have weapons however allegedly he managed”

to get a police chief from the church to assist with expunging his record further he was given a special police badge that says pastor he's got a badge type to utilize if he ever gets pulled over this is deeply concerning when we want to talk about like a relation he has to authorities let's back up he's a convicted felon yes for so in 1998 he ran over a woman twice well she was like she had like sand it was doing something with sand bags or whatever

and so he got in trouble for that and he he has like other charges like when I look at his like report online there are like back on check or whatever yeah there are like other things too but like that's the big one which I was like I we did not even touch on in the documentary I

“did not realize that this is that man's history the other thing I did not realize is he was married to”

Ali but and they had their kids he had another relationship I don't know if they were married I don't think so with a woman before that and had another kid who was like a grown man at the time that all of this went down and in right because like just like I want to say they mentioned it in the documentary when Micah and JP got together I don't know if they was when they got married or not but like the age what was like 21 and 36 yeah 15 years older than her yeah so he has a grown son which I can get

to more but like his son has a domestic violence like there I found a news article that he was arrested in like January of 24 for domestic violence so also an interesting person that like we don't even not even mentioned anywhere might not have anything to do with anything but not I was surprised to learn it one of the last things the Allison said that I thought was interesting as she says I was married to JP for 16 years although my story and what I lived through with

JP is different in some ways many of the details shared with me by Micah because Micah had been like confiding in her and asking for help are so similar to my own experiences with JP that I know she was being truthful so I'm sure there's someone out there who's like oh you know is she making up these swords or was she as she was trying to get divorced or whatever and you have you have Allison who is saying it's the same thing I know you're not lying yeah because what you're

describing didn't come out of the blue been there done that yeah so she talks about his father Wayne Wayne is super interesting and this goes to like the creation of the church right told you I saw all like the similarities so he starts this church in South Carolina the church ends of going on to have like a television network it has a Bible college it has a ministry overseas which is just like one for one for one when the church was founded and maybe you don't know this was it

connected to the nomination hmm okay so one of the things that they bring up when when we talk about the structure earlier is this comes up in one of uh lawsuit that is I know my paper one of the lawsuit that is filed in 2025 is they're like you'll hear these different entities reference these like three different church names they're like they're all the same thing they're all owned and controlled by Wayne Williams his dad I can pick up three different names but that's okay

and John Paul and so a lot of the name changes came out of scandal yes because so he had his first

with young people and when that happens this is like the 80s it's really easy there's no internet

“to just so they pack up they moved to mortal beach they called it different church they started”

they have a some congregation come some some new people and they start over and then there is another incident in which Wayne it like sposes himself to an undercover officer and that's the one that we probably see the article about in in the documentary I don't know which one they showed in the documentary but then there's like a news article where like he is named as like the other one was in the news too because there's like this five part investigative series that was done this one seemed like a

little bit more like a sting so that sounds like more like this incident so he gets in trouble for that and then I don't know when like solid rock becomes a thing it's a little bit fuzzy to me but then that's when J.P. which I also think is interesting when they were talking about in the documentary J.P. becoming a pastor was like oh he just wanted to like he's the pastor son who oh they also had a school which has someone who went to the school owned by my church I was like

what in the head and the school they were like is it wasn't super like accredited it it was we'll get into

“that a second but his dad had faced even in like recent years charges for I think it was like a”

home land security dude I can't make this stuff up I think I'll just just like it you look like invoices and emails and court documents this is insane yes the department of the United States for the district of the South Carolina Foreign Division nice of America either way that he ends up

pleading guilty to fraud in foreign labor contracting so basically oh no he was bringing over

people from other countries and promising them work within the church and it was basically like not providing them even minimum minimum wage they were getting like 25 bucks a day they didn't have proper like housing and he would basically even like the food was expired which like don't get me started on that I know that sounds crazy people do you know much expired food we had in the church

“that was just like because it was free yeah I but don't share the financials to know how much”

we're making because we apparently need expired food and he would threaten them that if they deportation yeah yeah so he is like he is a hot mess in and of himself there is this 2007 affidavit from his wife that I am dying to find where it is like referenced in different places where she talks about his control so this would be JP's mom yeah and she was like with him for a very long time but she talks about his control over the family and over the congregation and I would like

love her perspective so I get a lot of information about the churches that and how it is structured because in 2025 two Jane Does came forward alleging sexual abuse that was allowed by JP and

his dad went basically in the church so so Wayne and JP weren't the abusers yes they were

well or they are like JP but like the they brought this to the church and the handled and JP and Wayne owned the church I mean that's the whole problem and so but they threw the church too because they're like board members there there's no safety checks you're not doing background checks right you know there's nothing to like prevent this from happening or no one has this history yet you're just allowing him better access to people yeah and not putting anything in place

so basically in the Jane Doe number one case she alleges that she has this encounter with him when she's older with a jump hall where he like sees her like hugs her like puts his hand down her pants and she like could front like she like pulls me side after and she's like I mean she's embarrassed she doesn't want it and she's like what was that and he's like oh you know God the quote he brings in God again he's like oh god knows like we sin or some shit and I'll take that

paraphrase thank you and so she says that it like brings back the this repressed memory that she had from when she was 15 at the church and JP was 19 and he got her alone and she alleges he raped her in his truck but to your point of how that would be viewed by the church she said she didn't know if anyone would believe her she was mortified she was and eventually completely repressed memory until it came back so what until it came back when she's assaulted again correct so she

files that one first and then Jane Doe number two files so this young woman says that JP was 19

this is where it talks about how literally they say there were people literally taken off the street

“and passed off as teachers like they didn't have to have according to this like accreditation”

or anything like that and so JP at 19 is a teacher in this school so in the fall of 1999 plaintiff was just 14 years old when her parents like put her in the school yeah cathedral hall academy it's not a school it's a trap many of the staff were simply members of the church or colleagues with no credentials and she has this interaction with JP where he's like playing the piano he asks if if she wants to she declines and as she's turned the lead he pulls her into a hug

and she didn't have time to react before his hands moved down her back pastor lays under her clothing and touch her bare butt she's like unsure of what to do she told the teacher instead of receiving help she was sent to Wayne's office and when she arrived JP's already there so just to be clear like if she tells the teacher the teacher is not only colleagues with the person that did this but is also their boss right like a teacher is employed by the by the school that is owned by the

person who assaulted her and his father well I don't think you know he's still the pastor's son at that point but yeah it's all in the family yeah so he she gets pulled into the office where Wayne says quote you will not lie about my son and she was forced to write the words I will not lie about John Paul Miller five thousand times and then this gets out and she is essentially bullied

“by everybody now she you know she is a slut she is this she is that and her life is”

a living hell she says the horrors of cathedral hall academy were not just physical and sexual they were psychological then this this will hit extra close to home uh one example she gives is when plaintiff brought a Harry Potter book to school rwm and jpm director into the office they berated her called her a servant of Satan and told her that if she continued down this path she would be raped by demons then right in front of her they set the book on fire rwm that's Wayne

then be her with a Bible and poured water over her head she was 16 years old and again these are allegations and people wonder why I haven't seen Harry Potter so he makes a counter claim to that

to Jane do number two and Jane number one okay um he basically has a response and has filed a counter

claim saying that these are lies there were apparently social media videos he wanted the judge to like have those be taken down bar name one from talking about it as far as I can see these are still pending okay now one of the last things that I I want to get to I mentioned was like this idea of why did he take all of her stuff and yes we know where jp was but his jp the only person we should be looking at so one of Micah's sisters filed an affidavit and in here she says

Micah told me that there were people following her keeping track of where she went she thought that Mr. Miller had hired people to follow her Mr. Miller later confirmed this during a sermon I watched now they had kind of like briefly touched on this in the documentary because there's like a moment where they find a tracker on her car and they're like at the police and they see a car pull in and then like whip around and leave yeah which might have been him but this idea that it was people

this isn't say John Paul and that he was hiring people too to me said I don't sure I'm glad we know where his truck was but like who were these other people that were involved who else was in his orbit and did police thoroughly look at them too did the FBI we're going to

“talk about cyber stalking even if that's the only thing we're talking about like who else touched”

that case now when she had filed for divorce the first time I don't know I don't know what his

mindset was he maybe his narcissistic brain did really did want her back but it also seems very calculated because he convinces her to not do it that first time and then according to her sister's affidavit she is told by Micah that he starts moving assets so if she files for divorce and it stays like right now she's still has those he's going to get things while they're still marrying he starts moving assets in his name such as the vehicle he changed the deed to their house to the church

transferring interest and he also transferred interest in crocodile rocks to one of his sons

she says is that prior to her admission to walk them all which I think is the it was the mental

“health institution where she got institutionalized when she got committed so prior to her admission”

Micah was gathering and sorting the evidence she had to bring an attorney for filing for divorce to support her claims against Mr. Miller and as to his abuse character his paramores and associate he paid off or blackmailed while at while at the facility those documents emails files etc were

removed from her phone personal laptop vehicle and purse and never recovered further Micah was

unable to access her iCloud account email or Facebook profile Mr. Miller continued using at least one of Micah's accounts causing any recipient to believe that it was Micah's communications so and that's like in the documentary to reference like where we are in time that's when she's calling she calls like 9-1-1 and is like hey my strange or like we're separated my husband is I was in the hospital he's taken all of my stuff I need like I can I report the stuff still right and so

to me that was just like oh he took your stuff it sounds like she was building a case

for her divorce against him but mate look and I don't know what this paying off and blackmail

like there she was collecting evidence that then disappears because she gets institutionalized the other thing her sister says is that Micah was intending to participate in additional missions because she did missions trips she was even planning to live part-time in Kenya Micah recently shipped some of her personal items to Kenya in preparation for her stay there I understand why the family is so taken aback by this this is the document where she says that she was fearful

that she wouldn't make it to the divorce and she according to her sister said if I end up with a bullet in my head it was not by me it was JP she's making plans she says this she's building this evidence against him that evidence goes missing once she dies he's trying to collect anything else that might remain it's I get I get the questions I get the questions I've had questions since I heard about this case but I feel like the more that I've learned about it the

list of questions has something grown so what now I don't know his hearing for cyber stocking

“making false statements to an investigator that is set I think right now for October and I think”

I think a lot of people are going to be watching I know we talked about a ton of like very tough topics so for anyone who is listening or watching we're going to put a bunch of resources in the show notes including something on religious trauma yeah which are maybe I should take advantage and there's also going to be some information about Micah's law one of the things that her family is trying to change is how the state of South Carolina views allegations of abuse or

harassment like within a married couple because there was a lot of stuff that they felt like police couldn't respond to because of the fact that J.P. and Micah were married so if you want more information on that you can check out that in the show notes as well and see how you can support

“crime junkie is an audio check production I think Chuck would approve”

hey crime junkies if you're wondering what to listen to next I got you check out another audio Chuck show park predators a recent episode is about a couple named Danny and Sue who left her

camping trip in New York's Adirondax and never made it home when Danny's abandoned car was found

investigators thought that they were dealing with a missing person's case but then another attack happened and suddenly the whole investigation became something much bigger it's one of those cases where every new clue changes what you think you know for the full story listen to the Adirondax on park predators wherever you get your podcasts