The Telepathy Tapes: Are Autistic Kids Mind Readers? | Dr. Diane Hennacy, MD

And that is their primary way of communicating.

One day, the therapist who was doing homework with her had her calculator die on her. When she switched to a new calculator, it gave her an answer that was in logarithmic notation. And then Haley typed out the answer in logarithmic notation.

“And then the therapist goes, "Well, wait a minute, Haley. How did she know that that's what the answer came up,”

because the calculator wasn't within Haley's eye type." And Haley typed, "Well, I see the numerators and denominators in your head." And she said, "Why, you can read my mind," she said, "Yes." That really isn't the only ability that they and their parents report. There are reports by many of these parents and teachers that these children see dead relatives.

.

You're a mom with a non-verbal child.

You've been told they can't communicate, that they don't understand, that this is as far as it goes. But then something starts happening that you can't explain. You think something, and they respond, not randomly, not vaguely, very specifically. And it happens again and again and again.

“And eventually, you find a credited doctor who confirms what you thought might be crazy.”

Your child may be telepathic. The telepathy tapes podcast featuring real families in a scientist who has made the impossible possible has become a viral lightning rod, pulling in massive audiences in 10 skepticism. And a question that's making people deeply uncomfortable, are some non-verbal autistic children

communicating in ways that we don't understand yet.

Dr. Diane Hennessy didn't start her career chasing fringe ideas. She's a Johns Hopkins trained neuropsychiatrist, former Harvard faculty, a clinician and researcher who has spent decades studying autism at the highest levels of medicine. After years of working with families like these, she says she witnessed something that she could not ignore.

Today, V Doctor, behind the famous telepathy tapes, is here to explain exactly what she's seen. And why she risked everything to say it out loud. You may vehemently believe it, you may vehemently disagree with it, you may believe parts and not others.

Well, today, we're here to listen and challenge ourselves by hearing a story that really could change everything. This shows free because of support from listeners like you. Please pause for two seconds before we begin to leave a five-star review for Apple or Spotify talking about how much you love the show.

That helps keep the lights on. Please welcome Nero Psychiatrist and Scientist, Dr. Diane Hennessy, from the telepathy tapes to Culture Apothecure. Before people try to write you office crazy for what you're about to say, I want them to know who you are because you are a Johns Hopkins Trained Harvard faculty, you've had decades

in autism research, right? So can you share your credentials and experience in what areas of focus you're really known for in the autism field? So I started out actually in Nero Science because I was trained to be a scientist by a father who was not only a scientist in one field, but he had graduated degrees in three different

branches of science and he was the head of the Artificial Heart Program at Patel Memorial when I was a child. So I come from a scientific family and I at the time I was an undergraduate, I became fascinated

“by the brain and really wanting to understand, you know, how does the brain work?”

And Nero Science wasn't even a major at the time I was an undergraduate. So I just pieced together this curriculum in which I studied biophysics and anatomy and et cetera, you know, physiological psychology. So and I did research in Nero Science laboratories then I realized what I'm really most interested in is really understanding human consciousness that I really didn't want to be doing research

on animals, that the questions I was really interested in were once that had to do with things that we as humans are uniquely equipped to do. And I became aware of research being done at Johns Hopkins in other places by Nero Surgeons in which they would insert electrodes into people's brains and stimulate various parts of the brain when they were doing surgery and see what the person reported experiencing.

And sometimes they would they would put an electrode in the cell and they would stimulate it and they would bring back an entire memory, I thought, oh wow, you know, I really

to become a Nero surgeon and while I was there I became enamored with Nero psychiatry which is really combination of neurology and psychiatry and what I loved about it was that I was studying, basically what people reported the experience at a time when brain imaging was starting to come out. So I thought this is the way for me to map out the brain.

I did my residency in Nero's psychiatry at Johns Hopkins went on to the Institute of Psychiatry and did a six month training with Sir Michael Rutter who was knighted for his work in autism. And this was back in 1987 when autism was really, really rare.

“Yeah, I was going to say I mean how much were people really talking about autism in the 80s?”

Not at all. So how I became interested in autism was a combination of two things. One was that my mother was a special ed teacher and so I knew about some of these conditions that she would work with but also in 1986 while I was still at Johns Hopkins Oliver Sachs came and he gave a talk and he had a recent book published called The Man Who

Mystic this Wife for a hat and in it he describes these twins who were severely autistic. So severely compromised by their condition that they couldn't take care of themselves

and they were both institutionalized and they'd never been to school.

They couldn't do simple math and yet they could do amazing mathematical feeds. They could tell you six, 12 and even 20 digit prime numbers that they said that they just saw. It wasn't that they were calculating them and there wasn't even an algorithm for calculating them and on top of that back in the 60s when Oliver Sachs studied them computers couldn't calculate prime numbers.

For them to just say that they incidentally saw these numbers, I thought wow, okay. I'm going to come out with some kind of theory of understanding how the brain can, you know, how the brain works. I've got to be able to explain for them like this. And so that was really the first time you were exposed to learning about autistic

savants, people that were just geniuses, their autism brought out these kind of special abilities. Correct.

“How did you come to the conclusion that autistic savants might have telepathic abilities?”

Well, how I came to that conclusion was actually when I was over in India and I had been invited to go over there by someone who worked for the Indian government with various autistic children and she wanted me to test their savant abilities that she had witnessed. And she had also read my book, the ESP in Nekma and she wanted to come over and talk about that.

And I was over there evaluating these children who had, for example, knowledge of science

that they allegedly had never been taught.

She said to me, oh, by the way, they're also telepathic. And I thought really, you know, if that's true, then I have to, I have to test that. Not only because of the implication that has for what human capacity is, but also because I couldn't know how they knew that knowledge was that they were getting it for me because of course, I know the answer before I'm asking it, or are they, you know, or is it that

“they're getting it information from somewhere else?”

When this woman tells you by the way, they're telepathic, did you believe her automatically or were you a little skeptical? Absolutely. People can witness something that they think is telepathic and yet I know that telepathic implies that there's this mind of mind transmission of information and that's a big, that's

a big leap within science to say that that's possible, unless you've actually set up an experiment in the appropriate way.

I mean, you had this amazing, respected academic career, but you were willing to risk it

on something this controversial why? Because that's how you advance science. It's a combination of things, one is that where I trained, which Johns Hopkins, it's known to be at the cutting-edge of science, and I remember in my freshman year of medical school being told by the professors that half of what we teach you is going to turn out to be wrong,

and it's your job to figure out which half. So you're encouraged to go against what people think already, and secondly, I knew that the implications were huge, because there are certain things that if people make those claims to a psychiatrist, it's automatically assumed that they are mentally ill, and then they're

people will tell you things that you think, wow, that really sounds crazy, and then it turns out to be true. So I feel that it's my duty, it's a psychiatrist, to understand what really is true versus just having these sort of preconceptions about what somebody could possibly be experiencing. Walk us through the first case that you witnessed of telepathic autism, who was the child,

and what ended up happening that you just couldn't rationalize away. So the first child that I tested was a girl named Haley, and how she was discovered to be telepathic was that she was having people come into her home that would work with her on her homework. And one of the therapists who was working with her was doing a lot of math with her, and

her father thought that she was a mathematical sabote because there have been these autistic individuals that, I mean, it's going back at least a couple hundred years, who've been

reported who just spontaneously are able to do math, and they've never been taught math.

“And so that's what her father thought was going on with her, and then one day the therapist”

who was doing homework with her, had her calculator die on her, and so then she had to switch calculators, and when she switched to the new calculator, it gave her an answer that was in logarithmic notation, and then Haley typed out the answer in logarithmic notation, and then the therapist goes, "Well wait a minute, Haley, how do you know that that's what the answer came up because the calculator wasn't within Haley's, you know, I've typed."

And Haley typed, while I see the numbers and, you know, the numerators and denominators in your head, and she said, "Why, you can read my mind?" She said, "Yes." And then she said, "Well, if you can read my mind, what am I thinking about now?" She, you know, was thinking of that purple dinosaur Barney, and that's what Haley typed,

and then she said, "What's the name of my landlord, and Haley typed helmet, and her landlord's name was Helmet?" I mean, that's not a common name. Wow. Yeah.

“Within a few months, the other therapist who was coming into the home, because this therapist”

didn't say anything to anybody. I mean, she was afraid too, because she was afraid people think she was crazy. And so then the other therapist who's coming into the home notices that Haley was making the same kind of spelling errors that she would make, and she jokingly said, "Oh, you know, Haley, you know, you make the same mistakes as me.

It's like you're reading my mind, or something, you're thinking what I'm thinking." And Haley said, "Yeah, I am." God. And then the therapist said, "Well, how do you spell "I love you in German," because this therapist was bilingual, and then Haley typed, you know, "I love you in German."

And she'd never been exposed to German after hearing this story, I thought, "Wow."

I mean, I really want to test this, you know, under-controlled conditions, and so what

“I did was, as I put a visual barrier between the therapists and Haley, and then I used”

a random number generator, and a random list generator, so that I knew that the stimuli were random, you know, with then Paris Ecology, that's one of the concerns, is if the stimuli are not random, then you start getting into sort of probabilities. You know, if I were to say, you know, "Well, guess what color I'm thinking of?" And then you said, "Blue," well, I mean, a lot of people, that's the color they think

of, or if I said, "What fruit am I thinking of?" And you said, "Apple." I mean, probabilistic, that's more than, you know, that's just a high likelihood, because people would predispose towards picking certain things. But if you're using something that randomizes the numbers or randomizes words, then

you're removing that kind of human bias into the stimuli. So I used that randomization, and then I tested her for a total of six hours. With randomized numbers, randomized words, randomized pictures, where I would give it to the therapist who would then one by one look at it, and then think it, and then say, "Haley, read my mind, and then Haley would type what it was that she was thinking."

And I was in another room watching all of this with a camera feed, and I had cameras covering the whole room.

Seeing it for the first time, I mean, it really was pretty mind-blowing.

So I just want to make sure I understand what you're claiming. You believe that some non-verbal autistic individuals can receive information from another person's mind telepathically, and that is their primary way of communicating. Yes, what I would say is that they're able to get the information in a non-verbal way.

I can't really explain it in your typical sensory way. And so that's really what telepathically is defined as, is it's mind to mind communication without a known sensory mechanism. And you know, some people are going to say this sounds insane. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.

But you've been working on this now for how many years. I've been working with autistic individuals for a long time, but in terms of the telepathic

claim and actually testing that the first time I did that was back in 2013.

“When they are reading people's minds, is it just a single word?”

Keyword are they able to understand and see full sentences? How much information can they read? Oh, yeah, they can get a whole sentence. They can absolutely get a whole sentence. So I could sit here and tell them the whole plot of a movie and they'd beat the whole

time they're tracking what I'm thinking. Uh, yeah, I mean, I don't know if they'd be able to do it with you per se. Oh, why is that? Well, it's interesting.

I mean, so typically, who they can do it with is somebody that they feel connection with?

Oh. So oftentimes, I mean, who do they feel the most connected with this or mother?

“Sometimes it's a teacher or therapist who comes into the home.”

But they can also form this connection with somebody pretty instantaneously. I mean, you know, it, so it doesn't have to be somebody that they've known along period of time. Because this was what I was curious about when I was, when I knew I was going to be talking to you, I was like, does Dr. Diane walk around the grocery store, the airport of the

mall and just sees a nonverbal autistic kid and do you say stuff to them to see if they react?

Like, I was wondering if this is they can all read anyone's minds.

I can't say that they all can and I can't say that they can read everybody's mind. I've only personally tested maybe 20. And I've received reports from maybe a hundred different families from various parts of the world and how people contact me is that they'll be somebody who is spending time with their child and then the child starts doing things that the comic on this child is reading my mind.

And then they type in, you know, they do an internet search and they type in autism and telepathy and my name comes up and then I get an email from them saying, you know, what is this and what do I do about it? So in your experience, do you think that all nonverbal autistic kids have this ability or do you think this is just some?

I can't really say, okay, what I would say is it's possible, got it. It's possible that all of them do and what I've wondered is whether or not there's a way in which our consciousness is shared. So if you think about it, you know, when a baby is developing in your room, they're developing within you and then you give birth and there's this connection between you and the child

that there's a lot, there's a lot of mirroring that goes on for the baby with the mother. So if a mother is depressed, the baby's imaging of the baby's brain is actually similar to that of the mother in terms of the depression. There are a lot of mothers who report that, you know, when their babies are an infant and it's not capable of speaking, that they just have this intuition that, oh, my baby needs

anything right now, you know, and they go into check on the baby right for the baby cries.

“And so I think it's really actually a natural part of a biology, you know, certainly,”

you know, within, you know, mammals that, you know, where we, we have dependent young for us to have some kind of connection between us, that then what happens is, as we mature, that gets, you know, it gets reduced and that maybe that connection is part of what makes it so easy for a very young child to actually learn language. I mean, when you think about, you know, how remarkable it is that, you know, you can have

a child by the time they're two years old speaking in full sentences and their sentences actually make sense in the context of what they're speaking about and it's not that, you know, in, you know, in the past, the parents were spending all of this time with picture books teaching the child what these sounds mean. The child's just picking it up like a sponge, like, how are they, whatever those concepts

are that you're thinking about, how are they pairing that with these sounds? It's a very complex thing, I mean, try going to, you know, as an adult, try going to a foreign country and understanding what people are talking about without ever having

Do you think you could do it with somebody that didn't make an effort to teach you, whereas

“these babies, you know, you know, little children, they're picking it up like, you know,”

so easily. And then then that ability goes away, you know, it's harder and harder to learn new languages as we get older. Mm-hmm. So my hypothesis is that it's, it's possible that that this sort of communication is like the precursor to language and then once we develop language, language becomes

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How can you be sure that you're not accidentally creating a narrative that the family wants to believe when you work with them? So everybody that I have studied was contacting me because they were already convinced that the child was telepathic. I haven't been doing a lot of this research since the telepathic tapes.

Before the telepathic tapes, it was just me self-funding my research to follow up on some of these interesting stories that I would receive from parents, just like, hey, something's going on here, can you come and assess my child? So I would be willing to do that at curiosity and also, they said the significance for science, but at this point, now that the telepathic tapes has come out and so many people have heard

In your opinion and with your research, are the limitations with these special abilities

with non-verbal autistic kids just reading minds and that or are you finding that they're also able to have other supernatural phenomena like they're communicating with the dead, almost like mediums or anything like that, or is it just specifically just the living, a close caretaker, they're able to read their mind.

“So the only thing that I've really done a lot of controlled experiments around is the telepathic”

claim and that really isn't the only ability that they and their parents report.

So there are reports by many of these parents and teachers that these children, for

example, see dead relatives. How do they know that if they're non-verbal? So it's because they are communicating by either typing into a keyboard on a computer or their typing onto a spelling board and one of the things to understand about the spelling boards and this population is that the part of their brain that whose development has been

disrupted, it's the part of the brain that connects the Wernickese area, which is the area of the brain and it's in the back that is what's involved in understanding the meaning of words. You know, it's what enables us to understand language. So if you have a stroke back there, then you could speak, but it's gobbily cook and when other people speak to you, it's gobbily cook. Then there's part of the brain in the front that's called Broke's area and if you have

a stroke there, then it disrupts your ability to express speech and so it's broken or it's not

“articulated very well. And there's this pathway that connects the two and that's what's”

undergoing development during the first seven years of life. The idea is that we're actually

born with an intact area of the brain for understanding language and so we start picking it up and understanding it very early on, but it's the development of the ability to express it that takes time and takes practice. And it's a very, very complex motor act that's why some of children need speech therapy because what I'm doing now, moving my tongue around, you know, my mouth and sometimes it's at the roof of my mouth and sometimes I'm pushing against my teeth or whatever,

you know, my lips are doing all kinds of things in order to make these sounds. But that requires that what's called the proprioceptive system be intact and the proprioceptive system is the sensory system that tells me where things are located in space. And so when that is not developed well, then for example, if it's affecting your limbs, I mean, you may not know, like, you know, if I'm pointing this finger, I may not be able to tell you which finger it is or where it is.

So that's one of our senses is knowing where body parts are in space and we know that that system is dysfunctional in a lot of these non-speakers and it's one of the reasons why they have very poor fine motor control. Some of them have difficulty typing on their own. And so when you have them pointing to a letterboard, they're able to use their larger muscles to point, you know, as opposed to typing, which requires a lot of fine motor control.

“Why do you think that this special ability shows up in kids with autism but not neurotypical people?”

It might show up in some neurotypical people. One of the things that's interesting about individuals who are autistic is that, by virtue of their autism, they're actually removed somewhat from all of these cultural biases that are introduced to us through our educational system, or through even interacting with other people. Autism, the name itself comes from optos, which means self. The diagnosis got that name in the very beginning because these children

were coming to child psychiatrist and one of the most prominent features of it was that they just seemed to be perfectly happy all by themselves sitting in a corner. So if you're in your own little world ever since you're really, really small, you're not having the experience of people saying

things to you that sound really magical. You know, they've got imaginary friends and you know, they just they think that all kinds of things are possible but then as they get older, right? Like, you know, no, you don't believe in those things anymore. So when you're sitting there watching

Haley on tape that first time and you're you're watching her read the minds of the people in her

life, what was going through your mind watching that? Well, you you have this sort of like holy smoke that's real. Yeah. So were you like, I got to go talk to the next kid. I want to see this is like, I can find more like this. My reaction was that I wanted to go and take the data

“analyze it and present it to my scientific colleagues and that's what I did. That's another reason”

why I filmed it is that you really need to be able to show other scientists, you know, what you observed so that you can have some kind of peer review around it. And I presented it at the science

of consciousness conference that is a conference that was put on every year by the University of

Arizona. And people were, you know, blown away by it. I presented it at the Parapsychological Association Conference and Parapsychological Association. They are a member of the Scientific Academy that studies these kind of phenomena and does so in a very, very rigorous way. And so because of having become a Paris psychologist so that I do the studies properly, I understand, you know, what skeptics would say. I understand, you know, so a lot of people don't realize that

actually Paris psychologists are harder on this kind of research than a lot of other scientists because we know how much criticism there is about the field. There have been people studying these phenomena going back, you know, well over a hundred years. Wow. And there's a lot of research that was done actually funded by military intelligence and that has more recently become

“declassified on these kinds of phenomena. Are you talking about like MKUltra type of stuff?”

Or what are you talking about? MKUltra is, um, that's another, that's another thing in and of itself. So what I'm talking about is just people, like for the example, the remote viewing that was done with individuals at Stanford Research Institute. Is that called astral projection? Remote viewing, you know, that it's the same thing as what used to be called clairvoyance. You know, so remote viewing is this idea of seeing something that is not, at this, you know, at this location, you know, so

one of the most famous remote viewers was someone named Ingoswan and you could give him, you know, geophysical coordinates. So, you know, somebody degrees north, somebody degrees west, and then he could draw what it was he saw there. Hmm. I know, it's pretty remarkable, really. He was one of the most accurate and, you know, and he claimed that how he did it was this thing called, you know, astral projection. You know, rather than get too caught up in, you know, those kinds of

“aspects of it, the way that I think about it is I go back to my initial interest, which was”

studying savants because really these savant abilities are just as remarkable as ESP. You know,

you know, the idea that, you know, if we're in language that you've never studied or that you, you know,

can solve math and you've never studied math and you can do it reliably. I really wish I had that ability with math. I've to use a tip calculator unfortunately when I go out. Yeah. So when I think about it, you know, but what the way that as a theoretician, I conceptualize it is we live in a sea of light and sound waves. Sound is just vibration, you know, and so sound is when we can hear it, but a lot of vibration is, you know, outside of our range of hearing, similarly, a lot of light

is outside of our range of seeing. And, you know, when we have some other species that can see, you know, those ranges that are close to our range, you know, just just above it, you know, ultraviolet or just below it and for red, okay, but then, but that's just a tiny sliver of light. And so think of all of this, you know, all of these waves of light and sound as being full of information about that which they interact with. Yeah. I mean, how I see

that can navigate by hearing sound waves that bounce off of something. And then they know that an object is there. Right. Okay. So you have light and sound in all of these frequencies, both within audible and visual and outside of it that are interacting with what this, whatever this thing is that we call reality. So rather than just, you know,

hearing these phenomena just going, oh, that's impossible, you know, because I've never experienced

it. Instead of going there, what I go to is, well, wait a minute, you know, let's do some thought experiments here, just like, you know, just like a hundred years ago, Einstein did thought experiments.

“And that's how we got the theory of relativity. I mean, I hear what you're saying. I think”

if I just, if I could try to be the voice of my audience, I would say, one, I think they probably believe it's possible. I do think there's going to be some, because a lot of, of my audience's Christian, I think there's going to be a lot of my audience that say, sure, is it possible? I believe it is, however, you know, talking about things like remote viewing or clairvoyance or telepathy,

you know, they would view it as demonic, what your response to that. I don't think that those abilities

are in and of themselves demonic, because I think some of them are really God-given abilities that have some survival mechanism to them. Like the bond that I had with my baby that would enable me to be there if she needed me. Like intuition. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm talking about intuition, okay. Where we get into something that I would put a judgment on, you know, that, you know, demonic or, you know, whatever, you know, evil or, you know, whatever is when you start looking at

people that start engaging in certain practices that are harmful to life, you know, or that are trying to put themselves at some kind of advantage or, you know, or like, or if they're appealing to demons for their abilities or whatever, you know, if you're engaging in certain practices, then, you know, yeah, I'm not a supporter of that. What I, what I'm more promoting is the idea that we are more connected with one another and one of the things that's so beautiful is that what I see

that helps to form that connection is actually love. Yeah. That the people who seem to have these abilities, you know, with one another, it's that they just have a beautiful love bond. And there's nothing that demonic about it at all. In fact, you know, it's quite beautiful. It's because there's this inability to deceive one another when you're that connected. And there's also no desire to deceive one another. So in your opinion, you don't believe these kids are under demonic influence

that have these abilities. Or has there been something? Or like, well, Timmy over there was a little ordinary. I don't know. That is a concern of mine that that because some of them are so open, that it does make them more vulnerable to something like that. I know this is controversial. I know some of my audience is going to disagree. Some are going to agree, believe it, not believe it,

“whatever. But it's important to hear these conversations. I think it's important to talk to scientists”

like you hear your opinion on this, your research on this. And then, you know, use that to either defend why you disagree with her or use that to then say, actually, I agree. I'm coming over to her side. I don't know. But, you know, it's important. I think to get out of our box and hear these interesting conversations that we wouldn't normally be exposed to. Exactly. And to the extent that any of these children have, you know, you know, whether you want to call it demonic attachment,

or whatever you want to call it, then they need help, you know, just like you have people that go to the cast like church for exorcism. Sure, yeah. You want to know that. My mom called me the other day. Absolutely raving about this eye cream. She got from zebra. And when moms find a product, they like it becomes their entire personality for like a week. She's like, Alex, this eye cream has this cooling metal applicator to dust my eyes.

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One of the things is they were a port being able to see things through their parent's eyes often times. So this one mother, she can walk down the street with her son and he can have his eyes totally close, down time square. And he doesn't bump into anything. And he says he's doing it because he's using her eyes. Well, there's this girl named Leneer. And one of the things that was fascinating about her was that her mother had this necklace that had a cross on a Christian cross on it.

And Leneer grabbed her necklace and then she started spelling that the necklace had belonged to her mother's great grandmother and France. And the mother was like, yeah, I mean, you know,

she had never told Leneer that. But then Leneer went on to say, and this is where your great

grandmother is buried. And her mother didn't know where her great grandmother was buried. And then she was able to actually go and validate that. Did you ask like, how do you know that? Like, did you press her, like, you know, how do you have this information type of a thing? They describe that they have more than one different, you know, one way of knowing. I mean, you know, sometimes they get images, sometimes they hear a voice, you know, they say they time travel.

I mean, you know, there's all kinds of things they, you know, that they say they do. I mean, you know, once again, it's these are really fascinating anecdotes. But you know, I can't say that, you know, I've had a way to study all of this, you know, in a scientific way. But when you're asking me about, you know, what things are funny or shocking. Yeah, humorous. Yeah. So if I were the

“biggest skeptic on earth, what clip are you saying this is the one you need to look up that you should”

watch. Some of the best evidence that I've seen unfortunately is not available to the public. And yeah, unfortunately. Just the parents didn't sign off on it. The autistic individuals that I introduced Kai to read the ones who were willing to be part of a podcast, a movie, and a lot of the parents are not interested in that. That makes sense. So really like the best thing is to listen to the telepathy tapes. Right. Okay. Some critics might say, you know, this is wishful thinking,

it's confirmation bias, in some cases it's exploitation of vulnerable kids. What is your response? It's none of those things. It's not wishful thinking because I wouldn't wish the consequences

why would I wish this? I'm not the originator of this. I am the one who started having people contact me saying this is what I'm experiencing. And a lot of the parents are very, very

distressed by it. Not every parent is always having the kinds of thoughts that they want. They're

child to be picking up on. That's what I'd be thinking. I'd be panicked. And then I'd be like, oh, my gosh. I mean, that's such a yay. You're like, wow, this is so cool. I can communicate with my child in a unique way. That's cool. But also every individual, whether you're a parent or not, you have thoughts that you want to be private. Of course. So then are you finding that a lot of

“these parents are in great distress? Like, so everything I think my child is is reading my mind?”

Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely, a lot of them are. And see, that's one of the reasons why, you know, what's again, none of this is about exploiting anybody. It's me trying to perform a service of trying to help understand what is going on here. What are we looking at? Right. And how is this even possible? It's one of those things where if anything, what people want to know, it's, they want to know, can I shut this off? But, you know, you, until you understand what's going on, you don't even know

how you can then shut it off. It's not that the children want to be telepathic. So is there a way? I don't have all the answers yet. What I'm saying is that both parents and the children, you know, to some extent have a certain amount of distress from this. And so what I'm trying to do is just try to understand what's going on. See what can be validated. What, you know, I mean, a lot of it, you know, I can't validate. So are the studies still ongoing? Yeah. I'm not being

funded by, you know, any kind of, you know, organization that has an agenda. I'm not willing to do that. My readers anonymous. I don't know what it would be. People are genuinely curious to try to figure out what's going on. And then there's also people that want to know, well, how can we, you know, how can we help these families? Sure. So with the kids that you have studied,

“are they able to read people's minds within a certain distance? Is it just who's right next to them?”

Is it anywhere in the home? With the individuals that I've studied, I've only been able to do it within the same home. And there's a lot of logistical reasons for that. I mean, one of them is that that I haven't really had enough funding to, you know, work long enough with them to even try to develop the situation in which the child would be comfortable being tested away from the home. Yeah, further away from the mom, you know, a camera's ongoing, you know, it's like it's a

high stress situation in the first place because they know they're being tested. An autistic

children do not handle change very well. You know, they're very, they love their routines for them oftentimes their parents or the teachers like a lifeline. You know, so you just can't show up with strangers. So when we need you to be like, let's go, okay, let's go somewhere far away in town from a mom. Now let's go to another state. Now let's go across the world. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, it would take some time to work towards that. You know, and I can understand

why, you know, if we could achieve that, that would be more compelling evidence. It's just, you know, I haven't been in a position to be able to do that. Has this been proven in controlled conditions? I've controlled it to the extent that I can and some people would say, well, it's not controlled unless, you know, they're, you know, and totally separate, you know, building is or whatever. And, you know, I mean, there's a lot of skepticism around this

where people are, you know, and you can always come up with another more stringent condition,

but then, you know, it's easy to come up with those, but then executing them can take some time.

“How do you rule out parents or caregivers influencing responses in your research?”

With Haley, what I did was, as I had a visual barrier between the therapist and Haley, so that there couldn't be any visual queuing. And then I also had both of them mic, with a very, very sensitive mic, so that if there was any kind of, you know, vocalization, it would be picked up. The other thing is that for the individuals who use the letterboard,

laying a grid over it, so that you can see is this board in the same exact position, and, you know,

each time, you know, it gets lifted up and put back down, or is there any kind of pattern to, oh, it's moved a little bit of the left one at Zeney, and it's moved a little bit of right when it's to be, you know, just see if there's any kind of queuing that could be done from that. And so I've had other scientists review the work, and right now, I've, you know, I've written it up with scientists from the University of Virginia and the University of Oregon, and we're going to be

submitting it to a peer review journal along with video clips, so that other scientists can, you know,

review it, because it really, you know, I'm not trying to just go out here and, you know,

make claims. I'm, you know, I'm trying to open up a conversation. Let's say you're wrong. What happens then? Let's, let's say that I, for example, that there's some kind of vocalization that is not being picked up by the mic, but it's picked up by super, you know, super extraordinary hearing by the autistic individual. You know, let, let's say that's the case. I, I publish it, but my obligation would be if there is an explanation for it, then, you know,

that that really explains the phenomena, then I'm obligated to, to actually let people know that. It's just that we have to do the experiments in order to even, you know, get there. And if you're right, what does it mean for the autistic community? So for the non-speakers

“who use spelling as a means of communication, it's really important to know whether or not”

this is what's going on, you know, whether or not they're, they're actually picking up information from the therapist with the goal is of spelling to communicate is to actually eventually have the child express their own thoughts. For them to have a true means of communicating with others. And with many of the therapists tell me who work with these children is that if they didn't acknowledge that telepathy was a real thing, then they're, they're not clearing their mind

of the answers that come to their mind when they're working on the homework or whatever. And then the child's not really learning. Right. They're just picking up on what the therapist is thinking and whether it's picking up on what the therapist is thinking because the therapist is queuing them in some unconscious way or picking up what the therapist is thinking because there's this telepathy going on whatever it is, the goal of teaching them spelling is so that they can

communicate their own thoughts, not just repeat what, you know, whatever thoughts are in the other person's mind. Has the behavior of those kids drastically changed that are now able to communicate? The behavior really has. Yeah. And that's one of the reasons, that was for me, one of the real compelling pieces of data that made me think that spelling is legitimate. It's that you, you, you hear a count after a count from parents of their child once they learn to spell to communicate,

not having tantrums on a regular basis. Yeah. It does, you're finally heard. You're finally heard.

“I mean, that's why babies cry. They don't, they're trying to tell us they want something. Exactly.”

Is there any danger in parents trying to replicate this at home with their non-verbal autistic children? If somebody's willing to test it, then there are already sort of thinking it might be a possibility. There are some parents who've said, you know, they're disappointed that their child is not demonstrating telepathy. Yeah. So there's some parents who say, you know, why isn't my kit telepathy? You know, well, I don't know the answer to that. I mean, maybe all of these children

aren't telepathic. I really honestly don't know. But what some parents say is that these children only really develop the telepathic bond with somebody that they feel really close with. And so it could be really more a statement about the nature of the bond or lack of a bond between their

“individual. Is there anything that you believe about this that you're almost afraid to say out loud?”

No, I say a lot of things. Good for you. Good for you. That's great. You're my kind of woman. Where can people listen to the telepathy tapes? Well, you can go the telepathy tapes.com. I mean,

my understanding is the the movies coming out at the end of August or really September.

“Is it like a documentary? Yes. Oh, cool. Okay. Using your footage. Yeah. And where can parents”

contact you if they do feel like their kid has this ability? They can reach me at Dr. Diane Hennessy spelled H-E-N-N-A-C-Y dot com. That's my that's my website. But I also now have a non-profit research institute. And it's called Hennessy Institute dot org. The mission of the Hennessy Institute is really to be exploring these abilities that these individuals, not just the non-speaking autistic individuals, but people who are, you know, have what we call neurodiversity. You know, people who's

brains are just wired differently. They experience things in a different way. And a lot of them,

they just have genius level cognitive skills because their brains are not, they're not verbal thinkers.

So verbal thinking is the slowest form of thinking. It's also the form of thinking in which we can get the furthest away from actual truths. Because if you think about it, language can be used for deception. Language can be used for rationalizing and talking ourselves into believing something. And what a lot of these neurodiverse individuals report is that it's just peer perception, peer experience. And it's also good-stop thinking, which is just holistic thinking, where you see

“the whole pattern at once. Yeah. And that kind of thinking is I think the kind of thinking that”

can actually help us to solve a lot of the problems that we're in today. Because we can go around and around and around in circles. You know, if we're still engaged in this sort of verbal thinking, you know, and so we're living in a time of tremendous disinformation, misinformation, and a lot of it is purposely deceptive. We need to be developing and understanding intuition so that we can actually be closer to truth. And I think if we're closer to truth, we're closer to God.

If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, it could be physically emotionally or spiritually, what would that remedy be? The thing that has worked for me is that when there's a disagreement with another person, I really, I don't go into judgment about them. What I do is I try to understand where they're coming from. You know, so there's a lot to be gained by listening to one another. You know, we've oftentimes stopped truly listening to one another, because you know,

even when the other person's speaking, we've already got, you know, going on in our head. What we think, you know, we're already thinking about, well, there's why I'm going to say that. And it's like, no, we need to really truly learn to listen to one another. Because what I find is that we actually, a lot of us actually have more common ground than we realize. It's just that we get caught up in

“these narrative loops that, you know, that divide us. Very good. I think that's perfect for this episode.”

Dr. Diane, you're a legend. Thank you for coming on culturepothecary. Uh, thank you. I know that this episode may be hard to wrap your head around. It certainly is for me. Even if you disagree with her theories, I'm glad you listen to strength in your own world view by hearing ideas that are outside of the box. Let's discuss in the key service Facebook group. Now, for me, and I know that it's bumping for you, too, when we talk about people being able

to possibly communicate with the dead or use to let the or time travel or things of that sort. When I'm looking at this from a scriptural point of view as a Christian, which I know a lot of you are, that is super challenging for me. The Bible is very clear on things like that. And then I hear stories like this. And I hear Dr. Hennessy talking about it. And I'm just thinking like, well, if it's so demonic and evil, how could God allow for a child to is not really capable of

understanding what's going on be an undated with those thoughts or abilities when they don't really know how to get out of it. Do you see what I'm saying? I don't know. I'd love to hear from people

smarter than me, which basically 99% of you guys are. I asked the questions of interesting guests,

and then I love for us to discuss. So look, I know what you're probably thinking right now, and I want to hear about it. Leave a five star review if you appreciate the variety and guests that we bring on this show. New episodes come out every Monday and Thursday at 6 p.m. Pacific, 9 p.m. Eastern, anywhere you get your podcast. This content is for informational purposes only and

regarding any questions or decisions related to your health or medical care. I'm Alex Clark, and this is Culture of Pothachary.